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Speaker 1: All Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to take it up and here a show that

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Speaker 2: today is very urgently about things falling apart in Kenya

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Speaker 2: and how to put them back together again. I'm your host,

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Speaker 2: Miya Wong. What you're about to hear is an interview

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Speaker 2: about the Kenyan protests that was recorded on Sunday, July

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Speaker 2: twenty third. At time of recording, it is now Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: the twenty fifth, and in that two day span, the

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Speaker 2: situation and Kenya has gotten significantly worse. Kenyan police are

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Speaker 2: firing live ammo into crowds of protesters. They've killed at

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Speaker 2: least five people today. That numbers expected to rise as

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Speaker 2: more protesters die in hospitals. The government has deployed the

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Speaker 2: army and shut down much of the internet in an

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Speaker 2: attempt to stop news from getting out. On Kenyan TV,

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Speaker 2: political leaders called the protesters criminals and a threat to

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Speaker 2: national security. Meanwhile, protesters made good on their slogan occupied

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Speaker 2: Parliament by storming and then partially burning down the Parliament building.

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Speaker 2: As politicians continue to meet their demands with bullets. What

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Speaker 2: we've seen today is terrifying cop shooting live ammo into churches,

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Speaker 2: Cops opening fire on people waiting for medical care. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 2: to the fury of the protesters, Kenyan troops arrived today

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Speaker 2: in Haiti to begin a US backed occupation of the country.

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Speaker 2: We spent this interview largely discussing the local Kenyan political leads,

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Speaker 2: but this is also an international crisis. Much of the

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Speaker 2: impetus for the brutal tax increases on basic goods came

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Speaker 2: from an International Monetary Fund bailout deal that required Kenya

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Speaker 2: to increase its taxes to twenty five percent of the

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Speaker 2: country's GDP. Thus, Kenyans are being robbed twice, once by

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Speaker 2: the Kenyan political masters of the cops shooting them in

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Speaker 2: the streets, and again by the IMF and their neolibal

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Speaker 2: wealth extraction program. As the struggle continues. Let us now

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Speaker 2: turn to our interview into a more optimistic time in

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Speaker 2: the movement to get a real understanding of what the

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Speaker 2: protests are about. Welcome to it could happen here a

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Speaker 2: podcast where the here is currently Kenya. Yeah, I'm your host,

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Speaker 2: Miya Wong, and we are going to talk about a

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Speaker 2: bunch of protests and a bunch of very very very

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Speaker 2: interesting sort of political developments in Kenya that I think

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Speaker 2: have gotten very distressingly little coverage in in the sort

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Speaker 2: of like Anglophone maation media. And with me to talk

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Speaker 2: about that is Justine Wanda is a stand up comedian,

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Speaker 2: a political satirist, and a writer who's created Fake Book

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Speaker 2: with Justine about well basically all the stuff that we're

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Speaker 2: going to be talking about today are the are the

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Speaker 2: things you will see on this show. Justine, Welcome to

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Speaker 2: the show.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me me. How are

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Speaker 3: you doing?

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Speaker 2: Ah? You know, this is this This is one of

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Speaker 2: those morning recordings. So I'm a little bit unhinged, but

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Speaker 2: it's okay, We're I'm really excited to talk to you.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I'm really excited to talk to you.

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Speaker 4: And I yeah.

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Speaker 2: So I think I think the place to start here

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Speaker 2: is can you talk about so? So these protests are

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Speaker 2: about an upcoming finance bill, So let's talk about what

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Speaker 2: what actually is this bill and what seeing it?

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Speaker 5: Okay, So for me to be able to talk about

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Speaker 5: the finance bill, I have to talk about the finance

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Speaker 5: bill that was past last year. So in twoy twenty three,

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Speaker 5: we had a financi will that was passed. Most of

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Speaker 5: the financial last year had something called the Housing levy,

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Speaker 5: which basically requires every single Kenyon who's employed to remove

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Speaker 5: a little bit of their salary to go directly to

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Speaker 5: pay for an account where they'll pull the money to build.

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Speaker 3: Kenyon's affordable houses.

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Speaker 5: And in Kenya, housing is not especially a crisis in

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Speaker 5: rural areas because most people have their own personal films.

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Speaker 5: The issue is usually the urban centers where housing is

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Speaker 5: actually very expensive and it's very poorly infrastructured, like there's

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Speaker 5: no water, sometimes there's no electricity in certain parts, like

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Speaker 5: people have done a lot of illegal collection connections. So

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Speaker 5: last year the bill was kind of rummed through and

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Speaker 5: there was so much public participation.

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Speaker 3: Actually in the beginning that was like.

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Speaker 5: A lot of people got angry about the bill forcing

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Speaker 5: people to take money out of their pockets to contribute

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Speaker 5: to a fund that didn't seem like they had a plan.

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Speaker 5: And a lot of politicians were actually on TV and

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Speaker 5: everyone was watching every interview and they're like, you don't

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Speaker 5: make any sense, we don't understand. Yeah, it's like what

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Speaker 5: is that money for? We're not sure, but we know

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Speaker 5: we're to building houses. How are you going to manage

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Speaker 5: the money? Who's going to be in charge of the

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Speaker 5: money how is this? Like every single aspect was met

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Speaker 5: by like some form of deflection or like a lie,

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Speaker 5: just like a lot of there wasn't any accountability in

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Speaker 5: the in what they were telling us. And even the

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Speaker 5: person who was in charge was like on TV, he

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Speaker 5: was sweating.

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Speaker 3: He looked like he was lying though who time.

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Speaker 5: So everyone was like, if this is how you're speaking

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Speaker 5: about it when we aren't giving out money, what will

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Speaker 5: happen after the fact. But the bill sailed through, and

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Speaker 5: one of the elements that was in that field that

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Speaker 5: wasn't even in the news was that avocado farmers in

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Speaker 5: the country will start with charging us, will be charged

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Speaker 5: a certain amount of money on their produce and they

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Speaker 5: have to produce receipts on this every single day.

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Speaker 3: What like if yes, if you sell like.

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Speaker 5: An avocado, one avocado or of avocadoes, you have to

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Speaker 5: do a breakdown of like your sales and like provide

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Speaker 5: recists to the government and then like you're charged for it.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, yes, And the MPs this.

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Speaker 5: Like earlier this year, were like when the bill usually

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Speaker 5: like sometimes it takes a while for the closest to

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Speaker 5: come into effect.

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Speaker 3: It takes like maybe a.

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Speaker 5: Couple of months, So the the amount the farmers were

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Speaker 5: supposed to get charged was supposed to go live on

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Speaker 5: sorry in February or something. So in February, farmers are

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Speaker 5: getting attacked by like the Kenya Revenue Authority. They're being

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Speaker 5: told you need to provide these receipts and everything, and

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Speaker 5: everyone is like, I don't understand because we weren't informed.

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Speaker 5: And then the politicians who did not read the bill

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Speaker 5: but past it were like, oh, we didn't read the document.

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Speaker 3: It was too big.

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Speaker 5: What yes, exactly, So like that kind of information was

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Speaker 5: what that was what was on the news just before

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Speaker 5: they introduced now the financial twenty four So it's like,

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Speaker 5: we know you didn't read the one from last year.

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Speaker 5: You passed a bunch of bills that you didn't understand

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Speaker 5: the impact of it in the long term, so why

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Speaker 5: should you Why should Kenyans trust you with this new one?

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Speaker 5: And then they were like, no, we have the best

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Speaker 5: economic interests that had And then everyone was like, but

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Speaker 5: the bill you passed last year to increase revenue didn't work,

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Speaker 5: So if it didn't work, what makes you having a

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Speaker 5: bunch of new taxes they're going to work? And they

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Speaker 5: couldn't answer that and now this finance built enter wants

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Speaker 5: to introduce much of your call tax where if you

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Speaker 5: own a car, you will pay like a certain amount

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Speaker 5: like I think two percent that's of the voliation of

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Speaker 5: your car, and you paid to your insurance company every

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Speaker 5: single year.

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Speaker 2: Wait to insurance?

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Speaker 4: What what?

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Speaker 2: Why?

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Speaker 4: Wait? Hold on? So why why is the tax?

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Speaker 2: Why is this being paid to the insurance company?

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Speaker 5: Because that's that's how people are asking. It's like, we

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Speaker 5: understand because insurance and Kenya is mostly run by private

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Speaker 5: entities know exactly what they're doing, so it's more like

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Speaker 5: a way to privates and get money into peoples so

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Speaker 5: we can't see and then end up being stolen and

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Speaker 5: there will be no accountability. But they say it's easier

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Speaker 5: because the insurance company is already handled this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 5: So on top of your insurance, on top of the

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Speaker 5: insurance you pay for your car, you pay the motor

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Speaker 5: vehicle tax as part of that. And I'm like, that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 5: We don't trust our money on any given day. Why

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Speaker 5: would you think we would just to suddenly with a

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Speaker 5: bunch of money being branded by a private from somewhere

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Speaker 5: Because they're not going to show us their books.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it seems like part of this too, is just

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Speaker 2: that the sort of tax infrastructure isn't very like, the

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Speaker 2: tax collection infrastructure isn't very good, because you would think

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Speaker 2: that that wouldn't be that hard for the government to

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Speaker 2: just collect, but instead we have like a like an

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Speaker 2: Ottoman style tax farming situation.

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Speaker 5: So I love it you say that, because like that's

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Speaker 5: how that's exactly how it feels like everything is run.

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Speaker 3: It's very.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, as much as people in the room, we can't

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Speaker 5: make the wrong decision, but you've made the wrong decision

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Speaker 5: again and again and again, and now we're like, we

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Speaker 5: want to see the approach. We want to understand how

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Speaker 5: this is going to work in the face of unemployment,

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Speaker 5: in the face of like the country has not been

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Speaker 5: in good economic trajectory for a while now, and that

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Speaker 5: those economic shocks can be felt. A lot of people

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Speaker 5: are closing down their businesses, a lot of people are downsizing,

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Speaker 5: which means it's less people employed. Even the beauty industry,

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Speaker 5: which is mostly like run on inputs because they're charging

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Speaker 5: so much input duty. The beauty industry can't even stand

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Speaker 5: on its own. So people are not just buying less makeup.

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Speaker 5: It's like people who are those stores and any of

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Speaker 5: those kinds of businesses can't even have the like their

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Speaker 5: person who comes to get their job days.

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Speaker 3: It becomes a bit of a problem.

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Speaker 5: So everyone is like, if you're going to charge us more,

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Speaker 5: you have to have an infrastructure.

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Speaker 3: That works for us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Another tax that they're adding on the finance bill is

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Speaker 5: the input duty fee to like sanitary towers, wheelchair higher,

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Speaker 5: like because like Kenya doesn't manufacture a lot of stuff.

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Speaker 5: So you find like our like the pad manufacturing industry

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Speaker 5: in Kenya, like sanitary towers, only two percent are manufactured here,

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Speaker 5: like a big chunk comes from outside, and they want

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Speaker 5: to increase their input duty on that. So that means

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Speaker 5: the pads in the market are going to be even

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Speaker 5: more expensive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and and that's something that like that that's not

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Speaker 2: that's not a like that's that's that's that's not a

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Speaker 2: luxury good. You just need that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So everyone was like, Okay, I guess that we'll just

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Speaker 5: have to stop having periods. Is like that that's what

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Speaker 5: you're saying, Like we're gonna have to magically, Yeah, we're

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Speaker 5: gonna have to figure out magically with nature to just

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Speaker 5: stop having periods because you guys want to tax us

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Speaker 5: in this particular way, and it's it's not just like

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Speaker 5: the small things, because like the problem with the Kenyon's.

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Speaker 3: Piece, especially sensitive issues. So our.

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Speaker 5: Our third president, his name was Mike Baki, was the first,

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Speaker 5: one of the first presidents in the world to remove

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Speaker 5: v ty on sanitary towers. Like he was seen as

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Speaker 5: like someone who's setting an example for so many people.

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Speaker 5: And then the fact that this is happening when this

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Speaker 5: country was seen as like a chin setter to like

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Speaker 5: not just African countries, but other countries around the world

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Speaker 5: when it comes to like very important goods, it was

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Speaker 5: felt like we were going backwards and not in a way.

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Speaker 3: It's not like we didn't have an example to follow.

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Speaker 5: We actually did have a set president on like how

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Speaker 5: an economy is supposed to work.

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Speaker 3: So everyone who's grown up in this particular environment.

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Speaker 5: Where they felt safe and protected by the government and

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Speaker 5: like the government taking they live on very important issues

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Speaker 5: was like, you can't say building Kenya, buying Kenya is

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Speaker 5: a top priority for you when even electricity costs are expensive. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: because even this will adds like a fuel levy tax

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Speaker 5: it it's going up by seven shillings, which is way

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Speaker 5: too expensive. So you pay for your fuel, but like

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Speaker 5: most of the charges on the fuel is just their

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Speaker 5: levies and taxes, and they're adding a little bit more year.

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Speaker 2: And it seems like from the way that these are

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Speaker 2: being structured that you know, I mean, one of the

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Speaker 2: things with direct like I guess we call them sales

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Speaker 2: taxes here, is that they're incredibly regressive. The people who

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Speaker 2: get affected the most by it are the people who

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Speaker 2: you don't have that much money versus something like doing

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Speaker 2: you know, versus doing like an income tax, and like

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Speaker 2: the people who are the highest owners. This is the

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Speaker 2: burden of this falls entirely on people who are poor

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Speaker 2: and can't afford it.

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Speaker 5: Yes, that's I think it's very scary to think a

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Speaker 5: lot of our poll titians because they get paid with

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Speaker 5: tax payer money, and what they did when during when

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Speaker 5: they were writing, when they were contributing to the budget,

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Speaker 5: they were like, we want, we want this and this,

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Speaker 5: want to be added for this and this thing.

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Speaker 3: But the problem is, like when you look.

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Speaker 5: Deep down what they're looking for, they don't want to

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Speaker 5: pay taxes off of their salaries. They want to find

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Speaker 5: a way for taxpayers to pay for part of the

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Speaker 5: taxes that are being added so that they.

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Speaker 3: Don't have to lose money.

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Speaker 5: And every yeah, everyone is like, we know you're budgeting

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Speaker 5: for corruption. We can see you, we can see still,

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Speaker 5: we can see you still, and we don't want to

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Speaker 5: be part of that. And now to them, it was like,

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Speaker 5: we're being aggressive because we want we want them to

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Speaker 5: be held accountable for their very punitive for the punitive

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Speaker 5: measures that they're sending to like regular opinions. As you said,

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Speaker 5: a lot of sales taxes affect every day before and

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Speaker 5: we don't know how else to stop it. And I

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Speaker 5: think that's why the protesters. So they're catching fire. Everyone

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Speaker 5: wants to be out in the street.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we are going to we are going to

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Speaker 2: come back and talk about the protests in a second,

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Speaker 2: but first I here, here are some products and services

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Speaker 2: that are I don't know, probably also being taxed.

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Speaker 4: But all right, and we are back. Yeah, So okay.

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Speaker 2: I think I think people should should have like a

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Speaker 2: decent understanding of the fact that these taxes are these

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Speaker 2: are taxes on basic commodities that people need. And that's

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Speaker 2: one of the easiest ways to start a protest movement

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Speaker 2: is to suddenly make it too expensive to live. So

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Speaker 2: let's talk about who, Yeah, how how these protests sort

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Speaker 2: of started and how they've been being organized.

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Speaker 5: My issues that we can't really say how the protests started,

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Speaker 5: but there was a lot of anger by Kenyons online

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Speaker 5: because Kenyons are chronically online, like especially the younger generation,

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Speaker 5: a lot of people have cell phones, a lot of

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Speaker 5: people are not tuned into the news really, but the

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Speaker 5: information sharing happens where like when a clip from the

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Speaker 5: news is cut put on tiptop, people's see it like

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Speaker 5: this is happening, so so could get angry and then

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Speaker 5: they shared. So what happened with the the finance book.

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Speaker 5: People would cut very little clips from the news and

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Speaker 5: then someone would help put it in context. So that's

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Speaker 5: where my channel comes in, where I'm not just using

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Speaker 5: the news clips and provide evidence like I've go through

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Speaker 5: the finance built and then even consult with people who

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Speaker 5: are in like like ask lawyers on Twitter, like people

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Speaker 5: who have resources and understand the law or like what

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Speaker 5: that would mean for everyday canyons. I would literally reach

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Speaker 5: out and it got to a point where I am

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Speaker 5: now in communication with the right channels, like you can

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Speaker 5: directly ask how this would impact people, like if they

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Speaker 5: tax bread more or like refuse to make it easier

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Speaker 5: for suppliers to get items for the supply chain. How

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Speaker 5: does this affect everyday people? So that helps bridge the

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Speaker 5: graph of information and now with more people critically not

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Speaker 5: just looking at the news but finding the evidence for themselves.

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Speaker 3: Really have helped us get to a point where when

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Speaker 3: you share, we are protesting about this issue. This is

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Speaker 3: where we're going, this is what's happening, this this will

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Speaker 3: happen in a certain town. So like Nairobi had its

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Speaker 3: own occupy parliament reject the financial demonstration, it happened in

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Speaker 3: Mombasa too, it happened in neary Elder at all these

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Speaker 3: smaller towns where people were living. But they are people

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Speaker 3: from rural areas, they won't really care. And I'm like,

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Speaker 3: you don't know that. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: And also something that's really magical that's happened. A lot

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Speaker 5: of Canons were like, Okay, maybe there there are a

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Speaker 5: lot of Kenyons who live in rural areas who don't

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Speaker 5: have media that doesn't cater to traditional listeners, like people

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Speaker 5: who only speak certain languages so vernacular stations. So people

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Speaker 5: started using TikTok to do direct translation. It's like this

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Speaker 5: is the script, Yes, this is the script for the

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Speaker 5: for the financi buildings. Are the taxes being added. This

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Speaker 5: is the tax on bread, This is the tax on

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Speaker 5: your on your vehicle. This is the tax that will

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Speaker 5: happen on like period and sanitary paths and diapers and everything.

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Speaker 5: So someone does the whole we've done in their vernacular

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Speaker 5: language and they share it on their family WhatsApp groups

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Speaker 5: called penance love wksapp.

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Speaker 3: That's why if.

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Speaker 5: You're if you want to do anything proper Ganda like,

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Speaker 5: you can easily both on WhatsApp. Before messages are crazy.

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Speaker 5: So because like WhatsApp is mostly co opted by antis

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Speaker 5: and moms and people who love to share. Please go

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Speaker 5: to chat share share these to seven friends. People took

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Speaker 5: that Monday to where they send it to their moms

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Speaker 5: and then have it shared like seven of their friends

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Speaker 5: who don't understand what the finance BILLI entails. And that

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Speaker 5: is really changing the landscape of like who gets to

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Speaker 5: interpret the bills, who gets to understand how.

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Speaker 3: It influences them.

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Speaker 5: And it's been very very effective, So people who are

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Speaker 5: passive are more and more understanding of like why everyone

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Speaker 5: is on the streets.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like it almost seems like there isn't

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Speaker 2: there's kind of a I don't know, it's like a

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Speaker 2: TikTok think tank that's been sort of doing this valuation

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Speaker 2: that has been spread through That's that's really cool.

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Speaker 5: I'm just saying, it's absolutely lovely to see because like

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Speaker 5: tribalism has been a tool that's been wielded, especially during elections,

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Speaker 5: to make Kenyons look like they don't care about each

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Speaker 5: other and they can't go beyond their differences.

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Speaker 3: And this time it's like, yeah, we do.

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Speaker 5: Have language barriers, but we're not going to let that

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Speaker 5: affect us negatively. We're going to figure out our way

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Speaker 5: through the noise before they start co opting those spaces

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Speaker 5: and start saying, oh, gen z kids are lying or

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Speaker 5: millennials are just started getting money, so why would they

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Speaker 5: care about taxes? And so everyone is making sure that

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Speaker 5: those spaces are not corrupted.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like a really sort of incredible popular

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Speaker 2: education thing that's.

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Speaker 4: Been empowering this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I want to, I guess talk about I

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Speaker 2: mean one of the things that I think maybe kind

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Speaker 2: of breached the I don't know. Calling it like the

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Speaker 2: Great Firewall is exactly right, but it's like I think

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Speaker 2: one of I think one of the parts of this

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Speaker 2: that has gotten a little bit of play in the

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Speaker 2: sort of media over here has been the police response,

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Speaker 2: which has been terrible. Yeah, we talked about what the

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Speaker 2: cops have been.

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Speaker 5: Doing, Okay, in Kenya protests Historically, protests have always been

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Speaker 5: extremely violent, Like during the Moi era, people used to

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Speaker 5: get beaten, alocked. Moy was also president. He was in

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Speaker 5: office for twenty four years, so he.

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Speaker 3: Was a powerholder. I use those words, there's a powerholder.

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Speaker 3: He didn't want to go anywhere.

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Speaker 5: He wanted to stay in power for as long as

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Speaker 5: he could and to counter anyone who would go against him.

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Speaker 5: People were tortured, people were disappeared, people were killed and

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Speaker 5: like dropped in forest. Many families couldn't find their members,

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Speaker 5: especially if they went out of protest or do anything.

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Speaker 5: That's why Wangaimata is story who's like one of the

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Speaker 5: biggest environment total champions the world has ever seen. Her

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Speaker 5: story was so unique because in the face of the

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Speaker 5: most brutal dictators countries, every thing, she showed up and

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Speaker 5: like she didn't just disagree but she bought back, and

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Speaker 5: she did she use the same tactics that people are

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Speaker 5: using now. She informed the very ignored part of the

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Speaker 5: population to get the information across that if they start

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Speaker 5: taking away your land and patting down your tree and

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Speaker 5: you won't be able to farm, I won't have anything.

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Speaker 5: This is this whole place is going to be at

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Speaker 5: their set in a couple of years. So everyone was

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Speaker 5: panicking because like, land is a very sensitive issue yea.

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Speaker 3: And that's why the movement worked.

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Speaker 5: So well because she was not speaking she was not

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Speaker 5: just speaking against authority that she was going to like

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Speaker 5: the people who who were going to be affected the most.

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Speaker 5: And during those protests, she was beaten up. Her hair

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Speaker 5: was like young to her head. It was very Yeah,

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Speaker 5: it was very graphic and very painful. Like he watched

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Speaker 5: these videos and they're like who does something like this?

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Speaker 5: And now it's being replicated. Sorry, it was replicated again

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Speaker 5: like throughout his presidency, But throughout the years, a lot

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Speaker 5: of civil rights movements and all the community based organizations

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Speaker 5: like came together and they will still protest about stuff,

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Speaker 5: but the issue it had moved on from like large

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Speaker 5: protests to even kmalla protests being like they would send

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Speaker 5: the police to bitter people who are speaking up about

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Speaker 5: any issue. And usually, because like you're in smaller communities,

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Speaker 5: there's no way to track. So if someone dies in

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Speaker 5: Kibera and it's a slam area and it's mostly disenfranchised,

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Speaker 5: the community organizations they are no they try and find

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Speaker 5: justice for the family, but because our police are mostly

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Speaker 5: held you can't tell them to account because they work

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Speaker 5: for the state, it's very hard to get any form

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Speaker 5: of justice. But this time was it last year when

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Speaker 5: people were protesting about the cost of living and I

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Speaker 5: think it was just shortly before the finance built twenty

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Speaker 5: twenty three past people were protesting, People were out and

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Speaker 5: they were angry about everything, and people were beaten up.

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Speaker 5: Someone lost their two year old child because the child

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Speaker 5: was beaten by the police.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Like there's a woman who lost her son. Because

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Speaker 5: usually when you're at protests, sometimes the people who are

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Speaker 5: passing by, but because you're there and the police are there,

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Speaker 5: they end up treating.

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Speaker 3: Even if you're not past year, you're not back to

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Speaker 3: the process.

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Speaker 5: So that there's a woman who ended up losing her

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Speaker 5: son last year to the protest, and her adopted son too,

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Speaker 5: and then this this year, like a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 5: she died in a flood in my dad so yan

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Speaker 5: and then yes, thenas are like seeing their terrible nature

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Speaker 5: of like how state violence kIPS continuing. So this time

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Speaker 5: when the purchase are being organized, everyone is like, make

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Speaker 5: sure you're peaceful, don't carry in stones because like stones

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Speaker 5: like stones, you don't even pick up yours and like

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Speaker 5: throw it back and everything. And this time everyone is like,

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Speaker 5: just make sure you're very peaceful, only use your voice,

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Speaker 5: protect each other. Like a lot of the announcements around

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Speaker 5: the protests like make sure it's paceful so that they

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Speaker 5: don't have an exclu to say that you are out

441
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,479
Speaker 5: on the streets doing something illegal. You don't attack shots,

442
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 5: you don't try and force yourself into anyone's premises.

443
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 3: And what happened that was very.

444
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,400
Speaker 5: Beautiful this year is like the establishments, like the one

445
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 5: I'm in right now was helped protect citizens who were protesting.

446
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 3: So kids would be out of this. So they start

447
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 3: getting tears and like they.

448
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 5: Would open the door, people would come in and they

449
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 5: would close the door until they go away. Yeah, so

450
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 5: you find establishments are working to not just protect people

451
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 5: but also to be part of showing like this is

452
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 5: our premises. It's not being looted, it's not being destroyed,

453
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 5: because destruction of property apparently is a bigger problem than

454
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 5: you losing your life. So most people felt they were

455
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 5: safe at the protest, and they also felt like they

456
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 5: were seen by other protesters. So it was largely peaceful,

457
00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 5: very well coordinated. There's information on how to get medical

458
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 5: help or in case you're arrested, how to get as

459
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,679
Speaker 5: bigal assistance. So every single element is like we're not

460
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 5: just going to band out of like going into the streets,

461
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 5: but making.

462
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 3: Sure everyone returns home safely.

463
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 5: A lot of the protests in the past where they

464
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 5: got a little violent because maybe some of the protesters

465
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 5: went road and obviously their politicians love to use bad

466
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 5: actors where they implant a bunch of people who go

467
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 5: and destroy business premises, and then it looks like the

468
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 5: protesters didn't come there to actually protest, they were there

469
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 5: for their.

470
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 3: Own selfish reasons.

471
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 5: So this time what happened is like a lot of

472
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 5: the protesters were given the right information on how to

473
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 5: steal peaceful.

474
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 3: It's like these are the streets to use, these are the.

475
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 5: Meeting points, These are the contact people for in case

476
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 5: you get injured. There is this medics in case you

477
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 5: get arrested. These are the lawyers in case your friend disappears.

478
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 5: Make sure they have a life location on so we

479
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 5: can track them and everything. So it was widely successful

480
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 5: because that kind of peaceful and well coordinated blue navigated

481
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 5: towards spaces that were if not before, like the safety

482
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 5: of everyone was a priority. And because our leaders can't

483
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,719
Speaker 5: really find who started the protests because it's mostly like

484
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 5: a group who led the movement, they started abducting.

485
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 3: Who they feel like our community leaders.

486
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so I guess that that's something I wanted

487
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 2: to ask about, was like, has the police response actually

488
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 2: been any less bad this time that it has been

489
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 2: with other So this.

490
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 3: Time on Thursday they shot.

491
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, they shot into a crowd and one of them

492
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 5: ended up shooting at twenty four year old and he

493
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 5: bled out he died. His name is Rex Massi. And

494
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 5: then another kid was also short. The name is Evans

495
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 5: Kiragu was also short, and I think they were trying

496
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 5: to get him help and everything, but he died yesterday,

497
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 5: I believe. And there's still other prochesters who are yet

498
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 5: to be found. And then yesterday morning there's a very

499
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 5: popular Twitter personality who was disappeared, like they kind of

500
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 5: appointed him here. But then Kenyons held a space online

501
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 5: for over six hours and they're like they were dragging

502
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 5: government officials and like, if you people don't return this

503
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 5: particular person, we will find you.

504
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 4: It was very.

505
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 5: Particularly funny because Kenyans, you would think this younger generation

506
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 5: people don't have concentration issues. No one is going to

507
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 5: listen to us three, but like everyone was like online

508
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 5: and they were paying attention to like every single speaker

509
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 5: just to keep the space longer, holding space for the

510
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 5: person who would be taken. And he was found his lawyers,

511
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 5: the lawyers, sorry, the lawyers in charge found him and

512
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 5: they went and like they went and got him and

513
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 5: he went back safe, but obviously you could see he

514
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 5: was visibly shaken.

515
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 3: His creetur name is crazy and Aurobian. Yeah.

516
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 5: And then now today they took one of the doctors

517
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 5: was organizing for a blad drive in like in a

518
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 5: certain up market area. They just picked him out and

519
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 5: like no one has been able to find him until now.

520
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 5: So people are still advocating to like get him back,

521
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 5: and a lot of big personalities are making phone calls.

522
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 5: Lawyers are showing up, like if you see this particular car,

523
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 5: if you if you sit in your location, timely informants

524
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 5: share the information. So everyone who's online is trying to

525
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 5: get the right information to make sure that that doctor

526
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 5: is brought back. And yeah, ironically that doctor is actually

527
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 5: unemployed because the the government is refusing to hire new

528
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 5: medical personnel because like it's too expensive. When you see

529
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 5: them like driving around the new cars and has like

530
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 5: very expensive shoes, and everyone is like, your shoes could

531
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 5: literally pay like three doctors salary.

532
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 3: High higher the right thing.

533
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I can ends up pushing to make sure

534
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 5: everyone is safe and everyone who's lost, especially big Twitter

535
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 5: influencers and big media personalities and influencers are coming together

536
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 5: to make sure they use their platforms to help find

537
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 5: anyone who's not.

538
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 3: Who's been disappeared or been abducted.

539
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, where do you think the difference of going from here?

540
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 2: I know I should well, actually I think I think

541
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 2: I've lost track of what reading of the bill they're

542
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: at right now.

543
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 4: Was I thought it was the third reading.

544
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 5: Or it's a it's at the committee stage. So at

545
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,479
Speaker 5: the committee stage they go through the every single class

546
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 5: and they try to justify where they should keep it

547
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 5: or whether they're going to disband it. But everyone is

548
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 5: just like, we don't want any of this because some

549
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 5: of the bill is if there's a there's a part

550
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 5: of the bill that I didn't mention where the Kenya

551
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 5: Revenue Authority is supposed to go through Kenyon's personal data

552
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 5: to see your dodge in taxes.

553
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 3: And I'm like, that's ridiculous because a.

554
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 5: Lot of people in Kenya are supported by a family member.

555
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 5: So you find you find if I have money, I'll

556
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 5: send it to my kids, and then my kids made

557
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 5: might body to their friends who's grabbed in trouble.

558
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 3: So if it looks like I have money coming in, it's.

559
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 5: Probably maybe because of like a family contribution, a personal contribution.

560
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 5: So they want to charge taxes on that, and it

561
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 5: actually makes no sense. So it looks like they're tracking

562
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 5: how much money you look like you have. Yeah, yeah,

563
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 5: it looks like they're checking how much money you look

564
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 5: like you have, and then they want to tax you

565
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 5: on that or like say you're evading taxes. And it's

566
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 5: scaring a lot of people because once that happens, it

567
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 5: feels like there's no safety in anything you have.

568
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: So I guess so from from there, So is the

569
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: strategy right now based around sort of trying to get

570
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 2: these trying to get the committees to just like to

571
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 2: have this bill sort of die there or.

572
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 5: A lot of us are trying to make sure the

573
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 5: bill doesn't go any further than it is, and everyone

574
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 5: is tracking their emp. So what happened even before the

575
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 5: protest people started sharing their MP's numbers. Every single person

576
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 5: would pind like a member of parliament's numbers. Then we're like,

577
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 5: if you if this is your relative, please give it

578
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 5: to us. If it is your side, cheek or whatever

579
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 5: whatever where you.

580
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 3: Relate to this person.

581
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 5: Because it's government officials, their numbers should be public anyway,

582
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 5: citizens should be able to reach them. Yeah, And because

583
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 5: they wanted to hide behind their big, big cause and

584
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 5: big houses, we were like, Okay, we're going to find

585
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 5: you where you're at, and we're going to text you

586
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 5: and we're going to tell you to vote. And most

587
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 5: of the implies were very dismissing. They were like the

588
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 5: party that i'm that's back in me is the one

589
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 5: that got me into office. It's like, no, people voted

590
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 5: for you, you should represent their views. So a lot

591
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 5: of canyons held the lightry like I don't care what

592
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 5: your boss is telling you or what party this is,

593
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 5: you have.

594
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 3: To vote with us. So a lot of.

595
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 5: MPs who were shamed online some of them had to

596
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 5: but like they changed their votes.

597
00:32:53,880 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 3: Incredible, Yes, yeah we should.

598
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 5: It is more often, So that's really that really gave

599
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 5: hope to a lot of canyons who are feeling like

600
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 5: maybe their work isn't amounting too much. But we lost,

601
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 5: we lost that one batty. A lot of us ended

602
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 5: up using the battle to the second reading because many

603
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 5: of the EMPs. So there's this fund called the cdf

604
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 5: IDIF fund. It's the constituency the Constituency Development Fund that

605
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 5: emplase kind of use it like their personal bank account.

606
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,719
Speaker 5: So members of parliament, Yeah, members of Parliament will get

607
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 5: the CDIF fund and then they'll use it to go

608
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 5: and like so it's supposed to actually take care of

609
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 5: like bursaries or any county emergencies directly affecting constituents. But

610
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 5: what EMP is doing is that like they wield it

611
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 5: as a personal bank account. So it's like you have

612
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 5: to do a lot of us kissing and a lot

613
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 5: of performative nonsense for you to even get some of

614
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 5: the money, and a lot of people don't actually end

615
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 5: up getting the money. So what the budget makers did.

616
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 5: They decided to talk up the CDF fund so that

617
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 5: more mpries have more money. And usually they just pocket

618
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 5: that money. So they were like, Okay, I feel like

619
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 5: my budgeted corruption has hit the account.

620
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 3: I don't need to do the right thing.

621
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's just just literally a bribe exactly.

622
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 5: It's like the best way is like and they're like, no,

623
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 5: I'll have more money to take care of the constituency.

624
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 5: It's like, no, you steal this money anyway. You guys

625
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 5: have any You're not going to do a conscience today

626
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 5: just because you have more money.

627
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 3: So most of all are trying to get the parts

628
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 3: of the budget we've seen it the like put into

629
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 3: efforts that go directly to education and healthcare, even it's

630
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 3: even if it's directly to the school instead of the individual. Yeah,

631
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 3: so that that will help cut down on that kind

632
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 3: of corruption that a lot of empies run away.

633
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 5: And I think that's scaring some of them. And we're hoping,

634
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 5: we're hoping to get more people to be to push

635
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 5: their members of parliament or any nominated representatives to recognize

636
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 5: that all these items that they're voting for it's not

637
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 5: just going to affect us, but will affect them and

638
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 5: the money that they're hoping to steal. So if you're

639
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 5: going to steal progress, you don't get any of.

640
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:32,479
Speaker 3: The money here.

641
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 2: Incredible. Yeah, is there is there anything else you want

642
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: to add before you wrap up?

643
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll say usually when a lot of stories and

644
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 5: like the African continent are covered, it's usually like Africans

645
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 5: vote for bad leaders, and well that is true.

646
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 3: Most of the times, people don't feel like they have

647
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 3: an option.

648
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like you know, if you you listeners statistically

649
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 2: are probably either an America or a brain. So like

650
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 2: you you you know exactly what that's like.

651
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,879
Speaker 7: You're like someone who just you have Trump and he's

652
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 7: like a functure now right now? So yeah, because the

653
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,760
Speaker 7: little so On TikTok, something happened I think.

654
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 5: Yesterday or something where people were like, how the Kenyans

655
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 5: vote for this person? He's such a very dark criminal

656
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 5: past and everyone was like, have you guys seen yourselves?

657
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,359
Speaker 3: You come there?

658
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 5: There are no how everyone makes very foolish mistakes, and

659
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 5: all of us look like we don't know what to

660
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,280
Speaker 5: do to make sure people like that don't ascend into power,

661
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 5: because like group things sometimes gets us to like very

662
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 5: dangerous places. It happens everywhere. No one is any less affected.

663
00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 5: If someone who you hope to lose gains power, like you,

664
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 5: you're all in deep trouble. Like no one is on

665
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 5: a higher pedestal than the other. All of you can

666
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 5: actually lose a lot. And one of the things that

667
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 5: we are trying to remind each other's we're trying not

668
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 5: to get to this space. So what canons are trying

669
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 5: to pocuse like a direct manifesto where any person who's

670
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 5: running has to have like a close in their manifesto

671
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 5: that is going to even be turned into like a

672
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 5: policy and law where if you steal any money or

673
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 5: you co found doing anything corrupt, you have to like

674
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 5: remove yourself from office immediately, like there's no bargaining to

675
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 5: do whatsoever, Like you have to leave office immediately.

676
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 3: Then we're going to seize all your property like anything.

677
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 5: Yes, Like if you're going to get into power, make

678
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 5: sure the salary you're getting is in now. If you

679
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 5: have any ambitions, let them die now, like do everything

680
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 5: before you get into And I think that's so encouraging

681
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 5: to see because everyone is not just looking at them

682
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,479
Speaker 5: now and like all these bad taxes and the bad

683
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 5: leadership that we have, but also looking to the future

684
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 5: of like how do we make sure we don't get

685
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 5: here again? So that's really encouraging to see everyone is

686
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 5: making sure that they hold people to account across the board,

687
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 5: like if your protesters, make sure you're safe, make sure

688
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 5: you know this information. But also for the future, this

689
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 5: is what we want. So it's not just like we're

690
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 5: moving bad taxes, but if we're going to pay taxes,

691
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 5: are they going to be used? And how are we

692
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 5: going to make sure that the future of the country

693
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 5: is being protected by collective interest and not just like

694
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 5: individual worship, which has been a very very big problem

695
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 5: in Kenyan culture because like over here musicians are barely celebrities,

696
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 5: but a politician would work in here and like people

697
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 5: would like lose arms and legs just see hi.

698
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 3: So we're trying to make sure we fix that too.

699
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 5: Yeah.

700
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I guess if people listening to just want

701
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 2: to try to help support the protests, are there are

702
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 2: there stuff that other things they can do and places

703
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: they can go to find more information.

704
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 5: And because a lot of it is group organized, I

705
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 5: have to find the the information.

706
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 3: I could send it to you. Ye, put it.

707
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 7: Yes, I don't know if at the top of my head,

708
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 7: because I thinking.

709
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 5: Like most people would like to do individual because a

710
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 5: lot of we have a lot of mobile money transfer

711
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 5: which are usually direct to the person, so that it

712
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 5: doesn't work with various channels and then.

713
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 3: People end up misappropriating or stealing.

714
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 5: So if community leeds, so I'll have to find the

715
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 5: information and then sharing.

716
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 3: Cool.

717
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and okay, if people want to find you on

718
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 2: the internet, where can they do that?

719
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 5: So on Instagram and tip talk, it's fake work with

720
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 5: just Tin like at people with just Tin like the

721
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 5: full handle. On Twitter it's at official f w w J,

722
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 5: So it's official f w w J, which is just

723
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 5: people with Justine official people.

724
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: For Yeah, we'll get we'll get that in the description too.

725
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:26,399
Speaker 7: Yeah.

726
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do have my personal effought, but I don't

727
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 5: know if I want to give that.

728
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know I can still give it.

729
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 5: It's at justin wonder j U S T I N

730
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:41,919
Speaker 5: E W A N D A.

731
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 2: Yeah cool, Yeah, Justine, Thank you so much. Thank you

732
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 2: so much for coming on the show talking about this

733
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 2: has been great.

734
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me in, letting me

735
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 3: like just run my mother out work.

736
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and good, good, good luck to you all. Hope

737
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: you hope you stop them and bring them all down.

738
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,959
Speaker 3: I really hope we do. If we don't, it's gonna

739
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 3: be so sad. Yeah, thank you so much.

740
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 2: Yeah of course, and yeah, let's spinnak it off here

741
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 2: and you too can go make your politicians' lives miserable.

742
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

743
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

744
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: cool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

745
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

746
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated

747
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 1: monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.