1
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,040
Speaker 1: And that's what you really missed with Jenna and Kevin

2
00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:07,080
Speaker 1: an iHeartRadio podcast.

3
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,080
Speaker 2: Welcome to you, and that's what you really miss podcasts.

4
00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:17,440
Speaker 2: It wouldn't be the same if we didn't have this

5
00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,880
Speaker 2: guest back one more time to wrap it up with us.

6
00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:27,000
Speaker 2: He directed two thousand and nine in his very busy schedule,

7
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,720
Speaker 2: and he did his research when he came back. So

8
00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,519
Speaker 2: Paris Barclay's here, and what a treat it is.

9
00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:40,879
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god. So for those of

10
00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,800
Speaker 1: you who are listening, Paris's background on zoom right now

11
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,600
Speaker 1: is a picture of all of us and are sit

12
00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:49,800
Speaker 1: down your rock in the boat outfits from.

13
00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:57,960
Speaker 3: Yeah classic a classic episode of the Glee and you.

14
00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,840
Speaker 1: Were just you have greatest hits of classic episode today.

15
00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:06,800
Speaker 3: I do just just marvelous work by me. Yeah, and

16
00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,040
Speaker 3: I did it all myself. That's what's so amazing. I

17
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,800
Speaker 3: really didn't need the script or the actors, no, to

18
00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,040
Speaker 3: make a wonderful episode.

19
00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,560
Speaker 1: You don't think Paris is a gaffer, but let me

20
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:20,000
Speaker 1: tell you I can gaff.

21
00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,679
Speaker 3: I can of them.

22
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, very.

23
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,399
Speaker 3: Very hello.

24
00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,600
Speaker 1: Welcome back, Yeah, welcome back. You have left quite the

25
00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,479
Speaker 1: impression on the show. We still use your term Auchi's.

26
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,480
Speaker 3: I'm an Auchi today because I had a procedure in

27
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,240
Speaker 3: my eyes, so I'm not quite as beautiful.

28
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,760
Speaker 1: But oh no, you look great, even better. A busy,

29
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,800
Speaker 1: busy man an icon So thank you for taking some

30
00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,160
Speaker 1: time to come back and see us for a second time.

31
00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,520
Speaker 3: When you're an icon you do make time for the

32
00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,520
Speaker 3: things that matter. That's part of iconograph.

33
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,040
Speaker 1: We're getting a lesson. We need to know this for

34
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:09,320
Speaker 1: our future icon Iconic. Yeah, exactly, it's truly that word.

35
00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,040
Speaker 3: You get the idea. We do.

36
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,639
Speaker 1: Good to see you. What we want to talk about today, Well,

37
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:16,560
Speaker 1: you were here, so we've gotten to the end of

38
00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:17,760
Speaker 1: the series basically.

39
00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,200
Speaker 3: Yes, you haven't posted the last episode.

40
00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:25,640
Speaker 1: Yea, now correct. And when you were here the first

41
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:29,600
Speaker 1: time you said your favorite episode you did was Wheels,

42
00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,080
Speaker 1: but your second favorite episode, and you watched it in

43
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,160
Speaker 1: preparation for that time. It was two thousand and nine.

44
00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,520
Speaker 3: It is true, and it's still true, and we.

45
00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:45,560
Speaker 1: Just watched it and it's a wonderful, wonderful episode because

46
00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,720
Speaker 1: of one, you know, the emotion of it and the

47
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,560
Speaker 1: nostalgia of it. But two, technically speaking, you also had

48
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,520
Speaker 1: to do quite a bit of crafty work there to

49
00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,720
Speaker 1: make it fit in seamlessly with a pilot that was

50
00:02:57,760 --> 00:02:59,919
Speaker 1: shot on film six years prior.

51
00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it kind of look I'm right, I'm right

52
00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,360
Speaker 3: among all of you now if I at that, the

53
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,040
Speaker 3: main thing was research. I mean I look back and

54
00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,960
Speaker 3: I have all these screen grabs from the pilot, all

55
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,200
Speaker 3: these things we were trying to match as close as

56
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,000
Speaker 3: we could, and how you looked. And I remember we

57
00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,040
Speaker 3: were doing makeup and hair, and Jenna, you had that

58
00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,919
Speaker 3: whole hair thing that you had to go through and

59
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,440
Speaker 3: that's why you're wearing a cap through. Yeah, all of

60
00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,640
Speaker 3: the episode. I think you're wearing a little nature.

61
00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:32,200
Speaker 2: I had a big blonde, a lot of blonde in

62
00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,800
Speaker 2: my hair, and so there was like spray pain involved

63
00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,240
Speaker 2: and hair spray pain at least, and just lots of

64
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,000
Speaker 2: things that didn't match.

65
00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:42,720
Speaker 1: So, yes, some.

66
00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,440
Speaker 3: People were easy. I mean, Shee was easy, Mercedes was easy.

67
00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,920
Speaker 3: I think already you were pretty easy. Yeah, you had

68
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,240
Speaker 3: to get the clothes and the suspenders back, and.

69
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,520
Speaker 1: Because the hairline started receding.

70
00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,600
Speaker 3: And remember Rachel and Sue were a little bit more

71
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,640
Speaker 3: tricky because they had different hair and she went obviously

72
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 3: went through a whole makeup transition, so we had to

73
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,560
Speaker 3: go back to the old look for her, and Kurt

74
00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:07,640
Speaker 3: was just impossible.

75
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,440
Speaker 1: It's a full head taller, no, and and.

76
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,840
Speaker 3: Just see his face was very different. He evolved, you know,

77
00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,040
Speaker 3: he really grew up on the Glee and it made

78
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,200
Speaker 3: a big difference. So I mean, I think we may

79
00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,000
Speaker 3: have shot mister Sella Thane with him singing it again,

80
00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,120
Speaker 3: but we just it just really it was just so different.

81
00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,000
Speaker 2: And then mister Sulliphan was so iconic that like, how

82
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,000
Speaker 2: do you try to recreate that when it's so different?

83
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,240
Speaker 3: He looks, yeah, so we just have him used the

84
00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,000
Speaker 3: hair flip that he did, the immortal hair flip from.

85
00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 1: Behind, which to be on it makes it even more

86
00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 1: iconic because you don't want to taint with the original performance.

87
00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,880
Speaker 1: And like seeing that the silhouette was I mean, no,

88
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,320
Speaker 1: it was beautiful and was really effective.

89
00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,440
Speaker 3: And I did some research because you know, I like

90
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:51,400
Speaker 3: to prepare if.

91
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to want that's a director prepared.

92
00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,920
Speaker 3: Really, you really missed. And that episode was the highest

93
00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:03,200
Speaker 3: rated of the sixth season, and you know, obviously the

94
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,400
Speaker 3: finale came after it, so it's later, so it's going

95
00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,360
Speaker 3: to lose some viewers. But I think I'm glad that's

96
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,960
Speaker 3: that so many people saw that in the sixth series

97
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,640
Speaker 3: because it really brought back, you know, the magic of

98
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,200
Speaker 3: the show. And if you think about it, I was thinking,

99
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,080
Speaker 3: why does this work so well? And I think the

100
00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,080
Speaker 3: main reason is they wrote it to do what they

101
00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:24,039
Speaker 3: used to do sometimes in the early days, which is

102
00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,200
Speaker 3: make every song have a reason. Every song was either

103
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,599
Speaker 3: advancing the story or was part of one of your auditions.

104
00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,000
Speaker 3: They weren't just let's do you know Gaga, it was

105
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,040
Speaker 3: just like, let's do let's make the songs work. And

106
00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,440
Speaker 3: watching it again, there's like two whole acts where there's

107
00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:41,520
Speaker 3: no songs at all.

108
00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:42,480
Speaker 1: Towards the end of.

109
00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,680
Speaker 3: It, after your auditions, there's just no songs until we'll

110
00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,320
Speaker 3: watch this his tape and then the end of it.

111
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 3: So I think every song moving things along, even Popular,

112
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,719
Speaker 3: which was wonderful. Yeah. I mean, they could have just

113
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,240
Speaker 3: had you sing popular, Let's sing popular, but they made

114
00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,479
Speaker 3: it a scene. They made her having to help him

115
00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,120
Speaker 3: to become, you know, likable in a party of the

116
00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,000
Speaker 3: week Club was sort of an awesome use of that song.

117
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,120
Speaker 3: So it's just everything fit in. I was trying to

118
00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,599
Speaker 3: think that I don't think there's a song that was

119
00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,039
Speaker 3: just there just to be a song. Closest was his

120
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,920
Speaker 3: Name is Jesus, the Mercedes number. But but Rachel had

121
00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 3: to see that. Rachel had to see that power to

122
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,200
Speaker 3: know what she was up against. And so even that

123
00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,960
Speaker 3: worked in the traditional musical theater way that advances the

124
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 3: story and and and causes her to go into another

125
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:32,919
Speaker 3: area of destruction.

126
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:39,640
Speaker 1: Do you do you? Yeah, it's true? Do you? I

127
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,160
Speaker 1: mean you did both types of episodes, you know, you

128
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,680
Speaker 1: did the like Diva and things like that where you

129
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,520
Speaker 1: had these big musical numbers that didn't necessarily advance story.

130
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,400
Speaker 1: Do you prefer to do something like this or.

131
00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:54,400
Speaker 2: So?

132
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,719
Speaker 3: The show was greatest really when it did this, when

133
00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,160
Speaker 3: it really did, you know, tie the musical number is

134
00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:04,480
Speaker 3: to the story. That's what Wheels did in the very beginning.

135
00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,920
Speaker 3: You know, Dance with Myself was such an iconic thing

136
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,800
Speaker 3: because it was it was revealing all about this character

137
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,440
Speaker 3: and his relationships with everybody, and it was all wrapped into

138
00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,760
Speaker 3: a song. And I think that's when the show was

139
00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,680
Speaker 3: really strong. It was still entertaining, like doing Diva and

140
00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,280
Speaker 3: doing Dance with Somebody. The Whitney Houston one but it

141
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,280
Speaker 3: didn't quite scratch the same I think good galat Itch

142
00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,240
Speaker 3: as two thousand and nine did. Yeah. Yeah, But I

143
00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:30,880
Speaker 3: do have something for you. I have a list. I

144
00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:37,280
Speaker 3: have the top six Easter eggs in the episode. Some

145
00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,440
Speaker 3: of them you mentioned, but some of them you missed.

146
00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:41,040
Speaker 1: Okay, all right.

147
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,880
Speaker 3: Number six you mentioned, which was Kurt sewing his single

148
00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,600
Speaker 3: lady's outfit, which was delightful, just a little bit of it.

149
00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,560
Speaker 3: You'll watch that. Number five was Rachel saying she looks

150
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:57,280
Speaker 3: like an old justin Timberlake. Yes, yes, that was really

151
00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,360
Speaker 3: inside And for those of you who may not know

152
00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,400
Speaker 3: just the originally going to play that part or was

153
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:03,880
Speaker 3: was who they had hoped to play that part of

154
00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,840
Speaker 3: it was wonderful for me say that number four is

155
00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,880
Speaker 3: Shoes saying a sing office not a bad idea exercise.

156
00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,880
Speaker 3: I love those things. I really rewarded that those of

157
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 3: us who are watching everything, we got a really good giggle.

158
00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,080
Speaker 3: Number three and this one could have been higher because

159
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,880
Speaker 3: of the shot, but Ken saying I always wanted to

160
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,760
Speaker 3: be in the male and with his mournful little face

161
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,000
Speaker 3: just slave. Oh.

162
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:40,560
Speaker 1: I also he is so good. More of him over

163
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:42,040
Speaker 1: the entire entirety of the series.

164
00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he's actually in the pilot of Doctor Oyssey.

165
00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,200
Speaker 3: If you watch, there's a couple of lines there towards

166
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,240
Speaker 3: the end of it. He appears. It's a long story,

167
00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,920
Speaker 3: but we just put him in just for chuckles. Number two,

168
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,600
Speaker 3: even though it was just there for us and obviously

169
00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,320
Speaker 3: had nothing to do with the story. Crossing Blaine in

170
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,240
Speaker 3: the line of Bean and that conversation he's happy with

171
00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:09,000
Speaker 3: the gay not day member of the Warblers is hilarious.

172
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:11,439
Speaker 1: I really really love it.

173
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,200
Speaker 3: Yes, and number one and you'll have to go back

174
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,439
Speaker 3: because you may have missed. This is after Krosskey and

175
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:24,880
Speaker 3: Puck Bully uh uh Kurt, Yes, thank you. They walk

176
00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:30,120
Speaker 3: off and fuck touches him and cross just don't be gay. Yes,

177
00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,920
Speaker 3: just as they're walking don't be gay. I mean that

178
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:36,520
Speaker 3: was so I don't know if that was an ad

179
00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,079
Speaker 3: lib or that was in the script. That was my favorite.

180
00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,680
Speaker 3: It's just it's sort of muttered and you can easily

181
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,160
Speaker 3: miss it. Those are the top sixty.

182
00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,480
Speaker 1: How did it work with you? You know, fitting in some

183
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,720
Speaker 1: of that actual footage from the pilot, some that was

184
00:09:57,960 --> 00:09:59,960
Speaker 1: in a director's cut of the pilot, and some of

185
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:01,880
Speaker 1: actually in the pilot. How did that work for you

186
00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,280
Speaker 1: in terms of making sure everything else looked the same.

187
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:08,280
Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't think we saw around that.

188
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,000
Speaker 3: I don't think we used anything from the pilot. I'm

189
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,520
Speaker 3: trying to think did we use anything other than the end.

190
00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,240
Speaker 3: I believe that was the only thing we used, which

191
00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,520
Speaker 3: was when when Finn appears at the end. That was

192
00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:23,680
Speaker 3: actually shot for the pilot, and that was so meticulously done.

193
00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,880
Speaker 3: I look back at my editor's notes. We went back

194
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,200
Speaker 3: and forth exactly when we should come into the song

195
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,800
Speaker 3: and how we can segue to Finn's face coming in,

196
00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,200
Speaker 3: and how many repeats of the intro we had to do.

197
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,720
Speaker 3: I think we had to repeat the intro like eight times,

198
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,559
Speaker 3: so would time out to be exactly that moment when

199
00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:44,800
Speaker 3: we needed to make the cut and Finn needed to

200
00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,080
Speaker 3: come in. And it still takes my breath away just

201
00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,720
Speaker 3: to see him after we've been talking about him, and

202
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,360
Speaker 3: we saw that little moment when sort of Finn pushes

203
00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,160
Speaker 3: your wheelchair there and you look up at him and

204
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,720
Speaker 3: then to actually see you know this, you know, final

205
00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,959
Speaker 3: his beautiful face and they're singing the song and he's

206
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,480
Speaker 3: singing ironically. You know, some will win and someone will

207
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,320
Speaker 3: lose and that song and everybody sings the blues and

208
00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:12,960
Speaker 3: suddenly those words take on a different a different message,

209
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,080
Speaker 3: and then is it. The movie goes on and on

210
00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,040
Speaker 3: and on. Yeah, you should know this. Yeah, and the

211
00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,200
Speaker 3: movie goes on and on and on, which is where

212
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,440
Speaker 3: we are today because it does continue. Yes, saga hasn't ended.

213
00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,120
Speaker 1: That's right. That's that's why we're so fortunate to have

214
00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,640
Speaker 1: you who to like helm this because you have such

215
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,439
Speaker 1: a familial connection with all of us and the show,

216
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,360
Speaker 1: and like your care and like deep respect and thought

217
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,760
Speaker 1: about everyone personally and for the show always comes through

218
00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,040
Speaker 1: in your episodes, and especially something like this, which really,

219
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,079
Speaker 1: you know, ties to the origins of the birth of

220
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,360
Speaker 1: all this and like to hear you talk about it,

221
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,760
Speaker 1: to hear like it's it's it's really meaningful for us

222
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,240
Speaker 1: to hear you know how much care you put into it.

223
00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,040
Speaker 3: It very much almost did not happen because, as you

224
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,880
Speaker 3: may remember, that episode was shot as episode nine in

225
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,080
Speaker 3: the season. It wasn't shot is the second to the

226
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,520
Speaker 3: last thing we shot, and that was part of just

227
00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,400
Speaker 3: shuffling around my schedule and I was finishing Sons of

228
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,880
Speaker 3: Anarchy at that time. And I was getting ready to

229
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,120
Speaker 3: go to England to do The Baster Executioner, which was

230
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,360
Speaker 3: Kurt Sutter's next FX show that we did together, and

231
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,520
Speaker 3: I was president of the Directors Killed at that time,

232
00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,520
Speaker 3: and lots of was jumping off there, and so it

233
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,040
Speaker 3: sort of just worked in my schedule. Ryan really wanted

234
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,040
Speaker 3: me to do that episode, but we had to sort

235
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,880
Speaker 3: of jostle it around to get it to be that way,

236
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,679
Speaker 3: and it was thought to be the end of the show.

237
00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,920
Speaker 3: That was going to be the end, but then as

238
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,240
Speaker 3: time went on, they thought, let's see what happens into

239
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,679
Speaker 3: the future by these people, which is not a choice

240
00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:45,880
Speaker 3: I would have made. But I am not one of

241
00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:52,320
Speaker 3: the writers.

242
00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,760
Speaker 1: You've executive produced a lot of shows, You've forged on

243
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 1: a lot of shows. I feel like to the end

244
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:05,079
Speaker 1: of a series has to always be so difficult about

245
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:06,360
Speaker 1: how you do it? What do you do?

246
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:07,200
Speaker 3: You know?

247
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,600
Speaker 1: We were talking about this with Yeah, the episode after

248
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,280
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, how there is some flash forward

249
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 1: and things like that, and a lot of shows have

250
00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:19,040
Speaker 1: used that device. Yeah, how have you found like, I mean,

251
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,240
Speaker 1: even with some of your other shows, but like the

252
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,040
Speaker 1: best way to wrap up, you know, characters and stories

253
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,760
Speaker 1: that mean a lot to people over you know, extended

254
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:27,440
Speaker 1: periods of time.

255
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,720
Speaker 3: Well, I would have left it at two thousand and nine.

256
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,680
Speaker 3: I just thought bringing it back to the youth and

257
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,600
Speaker 3: the exuberance and the originality of the show, and then

258
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:42,560
Speaker 3: ending you know, within Alive and singing with Rachel and

259
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,520
Speaker 3: you know the other people. I think, we don't we

260
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,679
Speaker 3: have Santana and they come in and they watch, I

261
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,959
Speaker 3: would have just stopped right then. I don't think that

262
00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,800
Speaker 3: leap four. Now it's become such a cliche. Six feet

263
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,439
Speaker 3: under and loss and all these shows have done the

264
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,760
Speaker 3: jump in time thing. Even think Station nineteen did it

265
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,920
Speaker 3: when we ended Station nineteen. It's you know, now it's

266
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,920
Speaker 3: become such a thing. Yeah, and I didn't love you know,

267
00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:10,840
Speaker 3: Sue becomes vice president. It's just like it became like

268
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,560
Speaker 3: it was almost like, I just want you to remember

269
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,800
Speaker 3: this show is truly absurd. When if two thousand and

270
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:18,720
Speaker 3: nine had been the end, it's I just want you

271
00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,520
Speaker 3: to remember. This show was full of heart and love

272
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:28,160
Speaker 3: and innocence and eventually heartbreak. So to me, that would

273
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,360
Speaker 3: have been a better conclusion.

274
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:30,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

275
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,520
Speaker 2: Well, Ian said when he came on the show that

276
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,520
Speaker 2: you know, these people. These characters never really should have

277
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,320
Speaker 2: succeeded in the way that they did, Like it should

278
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 2: have been more insular where this is where Wigley Club

279
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,760
Speaker 2: stops is at the end of high school for most

280
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:51,240
Speaker 2: of these people, right, which is the reality obviously for

281
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,720
Speaker 2: our show and purposes. You know that that's wasn't the

282
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,040
Speaker 2: way it went. But I think that's interesting that you

283
00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:58,320
Speaker 2: say that, because.

284
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do you agree with them. I just think

285
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,880
Speaker 3: part of what made it joyful was that they didn't win,

286
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,840
Speaker 3: that they lost more than they won. Yeah, because that

287
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,440
Speaker 3: felt like life, and you know, as everyone succeeds and

288
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,760
Speaker 3: everyone is happy, and now we're at the Harvey Milk School.

289
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:17,680
Speaker 3: To me, I just push away from it. I just

290
00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:22,160
Speaker 3: don't feel like I believe it anymore. But that's just

291
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 3: me right now.

292
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,720
Speaker 1: Those are very good points. Do you remember having conversations

293
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,320
Speaker 1: with Ryan or anybody going into this episode about, you know,

294
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 1: the goal of it, of trying to make it at

295
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:36,840
Speaker 1: the time it was the what they thought was going

296
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,840
Speaker 1: to be the finale, and how they wanted to go

297
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,640
Speaker 1: back and fit all these storylines into fill in the

298
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,680
Speaker 1: gaps of what we didn't see in the pilot, Like

299
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,720
Speaker 1: what did you know, I guess you know going into it.

300
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't remember much. I know we had a

301
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,640
Speaker 3: tone meeting to talk about it, and Ryan was very

302
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,480
Speaker 3: very much eager to match people, to get people back

303
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,560
Speaker 3: to what they were, not only in their fashion and

304
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,720
Speaker 3: their hair, but also in their tone. He said, that's

305
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,640
Speaker 3: really important. And I didn't really have to do too

306
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,080
Speaker 3: much because you guys slipped right back into it.

307
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,280
Speaker 1: Most particularly to watch it was so fun to watch.

308
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,400
Speaker 3: I think you know you didn't get I think you

309
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,240
Speaker 3: gave MVP to everybody, but I think Leah for me

310
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,680
Speaker 3: was the MVP. Just she just got back to that pace.

311
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:21,800
Speaker 3: She got back to the brittleness, she got back to

312
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,800
Speaker 3: the insecurity. All that stuff was just like an old shoe.

313
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,240
Speaker 3: And I think that's why she's such an extraordinary Broadway performer. Yeah,

314
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,240
Speaker 3: because she can just pull that all that was there

315
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,880
Speaker 3: and bring it right back. But at the same time

316
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 3: she could be that emotional girl who in the end

317
00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,800
Speaker 3: kills you. If you guys remember that was a really

318
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,120
Speaker 3: tough scene to shoot. She was not that was not

319
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,040
Speaker 3: smooth with that final scene when she gives that final speech.

320
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,360
Speaker 3: It wasn't Leah just give me a final speech. It

321
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,240
Speaker 3: took a beat, and she broke a little bit, and

322
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,160
Speaker 3: we had to take moments to do it. But what

323
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,200
Speaker 3: we cut together I think is awesome. But you know,

324
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,360
Speaker 3: she is a human being, she is not acting machine.

325
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,640
Speaker 3: And that speech mattered a lot. R Yeah, it came through.

326
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,320
Speaker 3: It wasn't quite as easy as Miss Saigon or Black

327
00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:10,120
Speaker 3: Dorothy from the.

328
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,920
Speaker 2: Whiz, which also wasn't easy because we kept ruining it.

329
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:16,960
Speaker 1: Forever to shoot we did.

330
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:22,000
Speaker 3: I was laughing from the video village because it just

331
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:28,919
Speaker 3: was so I don't know, you even keep going. It

332
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,960
Speaker 3: was such something and that sounds very ian like, but

333
00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,639
Speaker 3: some of those things, she says it with such a

334
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,200
Speaker 3: straight space, and then you look at Mercedes and then

335
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 3: we're just duck out. We're just done.

336
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,560
Speaker 1: I couldn't look at anybody. We were all looking down

337
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,960
Speaker 1: at get through it. And we started looking at the

338
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:52,960
Speaker 1: at the beginning of it, but we were working her

339
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,640
Speaker 1: up because we were breaking and she was really committed

340
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:56,399
Speaker 1: to getting through it.

341
00:17:56,480 --> 00:18:05,040
Speaker 3: And it was just delightful, and she did it everywhere,

342
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,080
Speaker 3: even her voice over the room, my space. I mean,

343
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,960
Speaker 3: I just thought she was extraordinary in it, truly, truly,

344
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 3: you who also was really good because I just watched this,

345
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,399
Speaker 3: I guess two nights ago now April Grace, who is

346
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,919
Speaker 3: an incredible I've done like four different shows with her

347
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,840
Speaker 3: incredible actor just between the two of them, and just,

348
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,919
Speaker 3: oh my god, that scene is so beautifully done and

349
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,440
Speaker 3: it's super simple and it's very emotional. I did wonder

350
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 3: why so few people were in the church. I thought,

351
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,679
Speaker 3: did we shoot this during COVID? It felt like, remember

352
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 3: during COVID we could only have ten extras COVID extras.

353
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:51,040
Speaker 3: But it seemed very fair. I don't know, I cannot

354
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:51,840
Speaker 3: remember why.

355
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:53,160
Speaker 1: It was a rehearsal.

356
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:54,719
Speaker 3: Is that what it was?

357
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:56,919
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's in my head, that's what I

358
00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,200
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, it must be a rehearsal.

359
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 3: But everyone was stressed in their church stuff.

360
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 1: They were it.

361
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,960
Speaker 2: Was very budget was waning in that at that point

362
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 2: the same money.

363
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 3: And you know, black people are very expensive, so you

364
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 3: have to you have to, like you any a little

365
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,760
Speaker 3: bit ext just to get them there, especially.

366
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone.

367
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:24,080
Speaker 3: You don't know if and I know black people are

368
00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 3: expensive and we should be.

369
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, what else.

370
00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,840
Speaker 2: I'm curious though, because you've done so many shows at

371
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 2: this point, and you've seen shows to the to the end.

372
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,960
Speaker 2: Do you handle as a director of series finale differently

373
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:41,880
Speaker 2: than another.

374
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 1: Episode, Yes, that's the answer. Yeah, No, I mean, and.

375
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 3: I just I just went through with Doctor Ousty. It's

376
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 3: very painful because people don't want to let go, and

377
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,119
Speaker 3: they don't want to let go because it was a

378
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,440
Speaker 3: great time. And I know you guys feel this. That

379
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 3: was for all the pain we went through in the

380
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 3: making of that show and in the experience of it.

381
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 3: But everything that we went through, and then you get

382
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,720
Speaker 3: to the end and you want it to be beautiful

383
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,679
Speaker 3: and you want to sort of sum up everything, and

384
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,240
Speaker 3: you want people to sort of keep it together and

385
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 3: have that last experience be a good one. You don't

386
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 3: want that last experience to be painful at all. And

387
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,119
Speaker 3: so the joy of two thousand and nine when we

388
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 3: did it, even though you had other episodes to do,

389
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 3: is it had a feeling of completion colorin of itself.

390
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,680
Speaker 3: You know, it had an arc, and when Finn comes

391
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 3: out in the end, you knew you were there at

392
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,879
Speaker 3: how this all began. And I thought it sort of

393
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 3: was so well written that it was hard to up.

394
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,439
Speaker 3: I've been on many shows where we get to the

395
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 3: end and it's like, this is kind of bad, and

396
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,959
Speaker 3: then you have to be really loving to everyone to say,

397
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:55,680
Speaker 3: you know, we're going to do the best we can

398
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,639
Speaker 3: with what we've got, and you really really turn your

399
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 3: attent to the crew too. I always encourage the cast

400
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,159
Speaker 3: to really give the crew props at the end because

401
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,840
Speaker 3: a lot of times people forget that they've been through

402
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 3: this ride with you too. You guys have been really

403
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 3: good about, you know, really mentioning the crew and bringing

404
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 3: on Andrew and some other people. But yeah, a lot

405
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,840
Speaker 3: of people don't know, Hey, you know who you don't

406
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 3: talk enough about speaking of crew and injuries.

407
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 2: You know, we don't speak about the editors enough.

408
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 3: And maybe because you didn't really know them.

409
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: No, you're right, we didn't.

410
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,880
Speaker 2: I mean Beeker was our editor that we knew very

411
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:35,679
Speaker 2: well who kind of came back onto set. That's the

412
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 2: other thing we got to know very well. But you're right,

413
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 2: we haven't spoken about the editor.

414
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 3: I'm thinking about it if you keep going or you

415
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 3: go another season. I had the editor, Doc Kratzer on

416
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 3: He did Diva Special Education and Lights Out Me and

417
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 3: each one is completely different, completely different and has different

418
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 3: kinds of chops. John Roberts did Dance with Somebody at Home. Ye,

419
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,119
Speaker 3: Alex Soskin did both one hundred and two thousand and

420
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 3: nine and one hundred if you remember, has all those

421
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 3: numbers and you know, raise your glass and I had

422
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 3: the weird you know, Britney Spears meets Chicago Toxic Toxics

423
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 3: that we did. If you look at how that edited,

424
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,199
Speaker 3: it is crazy great. Yeah, you know, just the hands

425
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,959
Speaker 3: were in the glass and all that stuff were, it

426
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 3: is beautiful. So a lot of this, a lot of

427
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 3: credit that you know sometimes goes to the director really

428
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 3: belonged to those editors because they brought me something you know,

429
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 3: that was beyond what I expected. Certainly Doc and John

430
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 3: always did and Alex too. They brought me something that went, wow,

431
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 3: we did that. Yeah, and then I could just sort of,

432
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 3: you know, finasien improve. But so much it was put

433
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 3: together by their by their genius. So something to be

434
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 3: said for that.

435
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, definitely, it's amazing that we didn't really have

436
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 1: a relationship with the editors and we get these episodes

437
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: back and see them like, oh my god, like you said,

438
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 1: you know, it can make your work, your work look

439
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 1: even better. It absolutely made the actors work. Well, they're

440
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: staring at us all day and they know what we're doing.

441
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. They in the show for.

442
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 3: A while, like Doc was on for several seasons. They

443
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 3: see every other cut that everyone else is doing, and

444
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 3: they kind of know and they know this director, I

445
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 3: have to do this. I mean, they get used to

446
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 3: us too, and they know what we need and Brad,

447
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 3: they know they don't have to worry too much because

448
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 3: they're gonna have tons of material and great.

449
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: Right.

450
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's it's it's really an art that if

451
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 3: I had to do it all over again, I think

452
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 3: I'd be very interested in being an editor because I

453
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 3: don't really like people as much as I appear to.

454
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 2: You're very good with people.

455
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 3: They're so exhausting, we really are, and you know that

456
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 3: you're hard and you fall in love with them, and

457
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,880
Speaker 3: it's really like, oh my god, you just don't want

458
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 3: to be around people at all after a while. Yeah.

459
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 3: So the editors get to stay in that little room

460
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 3: and just in the dark and go back and forth

461
00:23:59,160 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 3: and make it look cut.

462
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: They know all the secrets, all the secrets, they know

463
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: all the outtakes.

464
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 3: They put them in a bin for outtakes.

465
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: Reels who can't remember their lines, who came prepared exactly.

466
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 1: Do you have any other favorite memories from I mean

467
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: shooting the show in general, or shooting two thousand and

468
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: nine that you think about, and you know, anything that

469
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: brings you some sort of joy, Any numbers that you

470
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 1: love watching or that you remember filming or even off.

471
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 3: I mean the numbers that I love are mostly in Whitney,

472
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 3: the Whitney episode and Diva I just and they are

473
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 3: usually not the story numbers. Oddly enough, the numbers that

474
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 3: just In and of themselves are are the music videos.

475
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 3: But on my playlist on spat if I and you'll

476
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 3: be happy to know this, Kevin. One of the ones that's,

477
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 3: you know, so frequent is your Justin Bieber take and

478
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 3: Somebody to Love that is right in my rotation.

479
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: If you gave me a million dollars to guess what

480
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 1: you were about to say, I would not have them.

481
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 3: I also love the Rhythmation Musical. I just think it's great.

482
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 3: That's in my sort of cardio playlist because that's great.

483
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 3: But I really think I think the thing that I

484
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 3: most wanted to talk to you guys about is the

485
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 3: quarterback because I disagreed with.

486
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 2: You please give it to us.

487
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 3: But I'm not in your position, That's the thing, because

488
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 3: I'm I am so much more objective and part because

489
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 3: I didn't live in the show the way that you

490
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 3: guys did. I mean, you lived in it, and I think,

491
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 3: and you strongly stated that show really felt like your

492
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,959
Speaker 3: emotions and you feelings were being thrown on the screen

493
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 3: and in a way that was very unfair. And I

494
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 3: think Ryan kind of capped to it too. It is

495
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 3: really difficult to ask actors to, I guess, even try

496
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 3: to separate the character of Finn from the person of

497
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 3: Corey and just play the loss of Finn without feeling

498
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 3: the loss of Corey. That's a very sophisticated thing to do,

499
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 3: and nobody was ready to be able to do that.

500
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 3: I think, Kevin, you said at one point you could

501
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 3: sort of find yourself dissociating from it, but oddly was

502
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 3: what was really needed, you know, well, to protect yourself. Yeah,

503
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 3: just to protect yourself. But that skill is very, very

504
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: advanced and very few people have it, and so what

505
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 3: what they were asking of you was actually more than

506
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 3: I think is possible for you to do. At the

507
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 3: same time, the episode for us who watched it was

508
00:26:55,359 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 3: devastating and emotional and needed. I mean, for us who

509
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 3: just watched the show all the time, we wanted to

510
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 3: grieve and we wanted to see how the characters dealt

511
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 3: with this really badly. And if you think about it,

512
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 3: they could have done in a million different ways, but

513
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 3: they took a huge swing just to say, let's do

514
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 3: it and really show the rawness of it. I mean

515
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 3: that it wasn't very glee to do it that way,

516
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 3: now you know, it really wasn't. I mean, when I

517
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 3: think of the scene of the family, Kurt comes in

518
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 3: with the boxes saying, here, I want you to separate

519
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 3: these things, and each of the of them talks sort

520
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 3: of about what Finn meant to them and the loss

521
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 3: of him, and how you know, Bert says, I wish

522
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 3: I could have hugged him one more time. That stuff

523
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 3: is very true to people's lives, and even if they

524
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 3: haven't experienced pain like that, the families who have see

525
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 3: it in that and the ones that haven't are experienced

526
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 3: in it through you. So it really ended up being

527
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 3: a huge gift. I was thinking it was a lot

528
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 3: like Hearts and Soul, which was the episode I did

529
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 3: of NYPD Blue where Jimmy Smith's died back in the day,

530
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 3: which was so devastating.

531
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 1: I remember watching that.

532
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 3: Yeah he didn't die, he wasn't dead. Yeah, you know,

533
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,959
Speaker 3: he was an actor and it was very sad, but

534
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 3: it wasn't quite as deep as dealing with Corey's loss

535
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 3: and Finn's loss at the same time. But it did

536
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,239
Speaker 3: give us space. It gave us space to sort of

537
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 3: play our own tapes of losses. For those that are

538
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 3: older and who have had enormous losses. It brought me

539
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 3: back to losing my brother. I lost my brother in

540
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy six in a car accident, and when an

541
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 3: episode can it's not tragic to regrieve. It's sort of

542
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,479
Speaker 3: in a way a gift to healing to feel that again.

543
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 3: And I thought they really it took balls to do

544
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 3: that episode and to do it in that way. It's

545
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 3: a lot of props. But at the same time, I

546
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 3: think it's a hell of a lot to ask of

547
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 3: humans and the people that were your age.

548
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 4: You.

549
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't disagree with you, Paris. I think

550
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 2: that in hindsight now, the place I've come to is

551
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: I'll never watch it again, but because I lived it.

552
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 2: But I understand the fans loved it so much, and

553
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: you're like, why did I love it? It was their place,

554
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 2: it was their funeral right, it was their way to

555
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: say goodbye, and they didn't have that like we had

556
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 2: that now on the other end of things. I don't

557
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: think Ryan, I don't think Brad. I don't think anybody

558
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 2: who was creating this or making this choice was even

559
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 2: in a place to be making this decision. We had

560
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 2: to make it so fast and set on the fly,

561
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: and we hadn't had space to grieve on our own.

562
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 2: Had we done the quarterback the season after, I think

563
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: it would have been very different.

564
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 3: Now.

565
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 2: It would have been painful, yes, but do I think

566
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 2: it would have been so raw. And we hadn't processed

567
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 2: or gone through any of the stages of grief at

568
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 2: that point. So we were going through the stage and

569
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 2: asked for our characters to go through them faster than

570
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 2: we were going through them ourselves, and that was really hard.

571
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 3: And if you were to do it in a sensitive

572
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: way now that we're ten plus years after, you would

573
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 3: have really dealt it with consoling. I mean, you really

574
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 3: would have provided consoling for everybody, to really give them

575
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 3: an opportunity to share before you touched that episode well, and.

576
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 2: Then also to do the memorial on the stage where

577
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: we were performing for us as seasons they did Corey's

578
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 2: funeral in the auditorium.

579
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a tough one.

580
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 2: That was tough for me because we did the funeral

581
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 2: there and then we were asked to come back to

582
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: work to grieve him again in character, and it was

583
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: like I had already been to this place and done that.

584
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: You know, there was just.

585
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 2: A lot of mixing where I don't think we were

586
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 2: given the ability to separate it.

587
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, but those of us who didn't see that, the

588
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 3: behind the scenes thing, you should just know that it

589
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 3: still ended up being hugely significant in our lives because

590
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 3: we needed we needed some closure again. And although it

591
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 3: was much more than I could take at some point,

592
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 3: you know Rachel's song and you know Mercedes, I mean,

593
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 3: that was more than I could take, even Fire and Rain,

594
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 3: which Kevin, you have no way of knowing. But when

595
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 3: that song came out in nineteen seventy, I was a

596
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 3: freshman in high school, believe it or not, that's how

597
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 3: old I am. And you know, we always wondered what

598
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 3: it was about, and James Taylor wouldn't say at that

599
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 3: time what Suzanne was and what it meant, but as

600
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 3: time went on he did. He revealed more about you know,

601
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 3: it talked about his experience in rehab, and it talked

602
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: about his loss of Suzanne and her committing suicide. And

603
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 3: you realized that this song was profoundly personal, and so

604
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 3: when you were singing it with that now knowledge, I

605
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 3: just thought, you know, there couldn't really be a better

606
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 3: song for this moment. It's not on the nose, so

607
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 3: not everyone gets it, but if you really dive into

608
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 3: what it's saying, there's so much, you know, everyone gets.

609
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 3: And I always wanted to see you again, you know,

610
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: I was hopefully i'd see you once again. Everyone feels that.

611
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 3: But there's so much in that song that's really deeply

612
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 3: resonant in Corey's story, and it was just really super deep.

613
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 3: I did think, though, if the safer way to go

614
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 3: would have been just to do a memorial service, which

615
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 3: is sort of what you guys have done on your podcast,

616
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 3: basically done, you know, in the episode that you did

617
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 3: after where you got all those people from all over

618
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 3: the world talking about how great he was. Ben had

619
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 3: that backstory too, and there could have been a way

620
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 3: to make you know, truly a celebration been you know,

621
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 3: as opposed to dwelling and the pain. You could have

622
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 3: just created a memorial service which different people spoke and

623
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 3: different people saying, and maybe some of those same songs

624
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: were sung, but it also emphasized where he brought joy

625
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 3: and how people were lifted up by him, right, which

626
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 3: is sort of the part that kind of was lost

627
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 3: in the quarterback because the pain was so clear intense.

628
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 3: But you guys, I think did it really well honored

629
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: him by having people really talk about just the little

630
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 3: ways he changed their lives, you know, the little the

631
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 3: little moments they have with him, sometimes just glancing, sometimes

632
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 3: completely through the television. He just made a huge, huge

633
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 3: impact on so many people.

634
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it.

635
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 3: Would not have been as daring, it would not have

636
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 3: been as emotional maybe, but it might have been. It

637
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 3: might have been better for y'all because when you're in

638
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 3: a memorial, you do emphasize you don't want to dwell

639
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 3: on the horrible things. You want you want to dwell

640
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 3: on the gifts that they gave you. I think, and

641
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: that would have been, you know, something that would have

642
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 3: been really Yeah. But maybe they'll redo the whole show.

643
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: And hopefully they don't need a you know, a reason

644
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: to have a memorial episodes.

645
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 3: And this week, you know, and not to get totally down,

646
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: but this week losing Malcolm Jamal Warner in the Drownding,

647
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 3: I mean that must have brought back it's stuff for everybody.

648
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: I mean, I knew Malcolm. I used to represent him

649
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 3: when I had a music video company, so I met

650
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: him when he was on The Cosby Show. And he

651
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 3: is truly the way everyone has described him. You're very

652
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:16,240
Speaker 3: finn like, you know, very giving, very open to everybody,

653
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 3: you know, trying to do his best, easy with the smile.

654
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 3: Everyone in the cast loved him. He's very reminiscent of

655
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 3: Corey and Finn and then he's lost in that way

656
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 3: that's reminiscent of Naya, which sent me into a whole Yeah,

657
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 3: just a whole emotion for like a full day. So

658
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 3: it was just like, you know, just just these there's

659
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 3: so much unfairness of things. Yeah, as I think has

660
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 3: been written before, and I don't know that was just

661
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 3: that was just a down or.

662
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: You know, I think it all goes back to what

663
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: you were saying about whether or not. How we felt

664
00:34:54,640 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: filming that these things are an unavoidable part of life,

665
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: and the way we experience them before we have to

666
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: experience them in real life is through media like this,

667
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: whether it's through a song like Fire and Rain, or

668
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: whether it's through a TV show or a movie, and

669
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: how we learn about these different horrible human experiences in

670
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: that way and have these people to look towards as

671
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: a guide when these things happened to us and have

672
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,959
Speaker 1: a safe place like people might have, you know, during

673
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: the quarterback to grieve, but also, like you said, spreading

674
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 1: the joy of like you had these incredible experiences with

675
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: all of these people who we've lost in horrible ways,

676
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: but we've also got to experience so much joy with them.

677
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: And to be able to also live in that and

678
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,959
Speaker 1: acknowledge that and remember those memories and tell other people

679
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: about the positive ways that they impacted people is also

680
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: such a gift because like we're happy to do that

681
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: because it's like we get to brag about these people

682
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 1: that we got to spend so much time with. Yeah,

683
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: and not everybody, unfortunately, is going to get to have

684
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: those experiences, but like we are all living testaments to

685
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, their wonderful character.

686
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and that joy does go on. I mean

687
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 3: it does if you want Nutbush City Limits, if you

688
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,720
Speaker 3: just I think everyone here should stop whatever they're doing

689
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 3: and on YouTube and watch Netwish City Limits. Suddenly you

690
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 3: can't help but smile. You can't help but be lifted

691
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 3: by her. And you know, everybody who performed in that

692
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 3: that song is crazy. But at the same time, it's

693
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 3: it's so up, it's so it's so filled with joy.

694
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 3: And to think that that joy can be brought to

695
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 3: you in this five minute or four minute. Yeah, a

696
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 3: little sampling like that shows you the power of that

697
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 3: woman and choreographers and everybody and once again the editors.

698
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 3: But when that all comes together, it lifts you like

699
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 3: you know nothing else. I remember the first time I

700
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 3: saw a teenage dream, I want to go to some

701
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 3: of the joyful thing. Yeah, I think Brad took it.

702
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 3: Did Brad direct that episode? The first episode, Yeah, of

703
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 3: which in which I remember Brad showing it to me. Anyway,

704
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 3: for one reason, you gotta look at this. You got

705
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 3: to see this, guys, he's going to be in your episode.

706
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 3: But I think I did. The second episode, Darren was

707
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 3: in or something and so I watched it and I went,

708
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 3: this is amazing, And once again, it's everything. It's not

709
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 3: just him and the way he performs. It's the way

710
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,760
Speaker 3: they're choreographed, it's the way they look, it's it's Chris's

711
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 3: reaction to seeing him, which is so delightful. He doesn't

712
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 3: really quite know what to do with his feelies.

713
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: When all those things line up, when all those different departments,

714
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: and there's also that sort of intangible thing, the magic,

715
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: the magic of it, and that's you feel that that

716
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 1: could that jumps through the screen, that moves your body.

717
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: It's a physical reaction to that.

718
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 3: It really does. And what what show does that? I mean,

719
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 3: I certainly no show that does that today, And there's

720
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 3: no musical show you know, whatever it was always playlist

721
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 3: or whatever that's been able to accomplish the kind of

722
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 3: emotional and the excitement of the production of some of

723
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 3: these things that has been able to do. It's it

724
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 3: will always be and I don't think it will be replicated,

725
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 3: but it will always be there as sort of this

726
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 3: gold standard of what's possible in musical television. And they say, well,

727
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 3: musicals don't work, and blah blah blah. It said well,

728
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 3: for many years of people were watching Glee and it

729
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 3: was very much a musical. Yeah, it was very much

730
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 3: unabashedly musical and it worked just fine. So stop it,

731
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 3: stop it, stop.

732
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: It go like go put on nut Bush.

733
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 3: Exactly, cut your nut for sea on and go to

734
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:55,400
Speaker 3: the city limits.

735
00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: And honestly, that is no better example than Bush. I

736
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 1: love that that was your reference because you're We.

737
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 2: Watched that the rehearsal in that, and we said, oh

738
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 2: my god.

739
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: Like you when someone is people always talk about like

740
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: the X factor or whatever that thing is that like

741
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: stars have even watching it now in the rewatch where

742
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: she walks in the beginning of Nutbush like that is

743
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: a king, superstar, like whatever is happening there, and I'm

744
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: going to sit back and enjoy this. I'll pay a

745
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: billion dollars to be front row with whatever this is.

746
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly.

747
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 3: And then what was the episode you talked about it

748
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 3: before where we had Christian Chen with and she did

749
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 3: a house is not at Home?

750
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: You want to just have Goose about my favorites a

751
00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: whole number on the show.

752
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 3: It's it's in a very different way. It's another really

753
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 3: joyful thing. And that was one of the few times

754
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 3: Ryan came to the rehearsal because Ryan was very keen

755
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 3: on how that number should be done, and he had

756
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 3: a vision. It was obviously the famous was it Barbara

757
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 3: streisand recording of OUs Home. It was a duet. I

758
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 3: think it had been done with Barbara Streis in doing

759
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 3: both sides of it, I believe, and that's what it

760
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 3: was based on. But he saw this scene in it,

761
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 3: and as he explained it and as we laid it

762
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 3: out the choreography, we went beat by bete about where

763
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 3: they go and how they moved and where the camera

764
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 3: would be, and it became just so seamless, and the

765
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 3: two of them, their voices sound so great together the

766
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 3: arrange for his classic, and then they moved through the

767
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 3: rooms and they end up in bed in a way

768
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 3: that's really quite original. And that's once again what a

769
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 3: musical can do. And there's a liing between them. You

770
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 3: don't know, does he really want to?

771
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 1: But not everybody could, not everybody could make the song

772
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: that already feels like that, make that feel like that

773
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,320
Speaker 1: watching it and your deep understanding and appreciation of music

774
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 1: and like your history with it. I think like when

775
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: you watch a great music video and it makes the

776
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: song even better. It's like that, like that number whatever

777
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: is happening on film, this even element If I just

778
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: heard that song, like, oh, this is really good, but

779
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: it is how I'm viewing it and experiencing it for

780
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 1: the first time that makes me really really love that song.

781
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think we talked about this before. But the

782
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 3: other one that does that for me is at the Ballet,

783
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 3: which was that in Lights Out could have been lights Out.

784
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: It was not in a great episode whatever it was.

785
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 3: It was an episode that was not great, but that

786
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 3: song and all ten minutes of it and the full.

787
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: Orchestra You're right it was.

788
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 3: We had there and Sarah jessin Parker and doing all

789
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 3: three bruises of that long song and the ballet answers.

790
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 3: It just show you know, this is out of control.

791
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's but like, how how lucky was Glee to

792
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: have you? Truly and You're gonna sit there and take

793
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 1: it now, but I'm not going to take to this

794
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: is how like I'm so glad people can hear Like,

795
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: first of all, your recall, your memory for memories, the.

796
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 4: Amount of shows that you've worked on and yet yeah,

797
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 4: but the the impact of all those examples you gave.

798
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: It isn't just somebody, well, we're gonna shoot this wide

799
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,919
Speaker 1: and cover the dance numbers here. It is because you

800
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: care about the story so deeply and understand how that

801
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: comes through with each song, even if it is just

802
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: a big, huge musical number like you're always looking for,

803
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: how is this going to impact the person watching it? Yep,

804
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: And with you and the editors and everybody on that

805
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 1: set to come together in some of those gigantic numbers

806
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 1: and pulling them off. Doing at the ballet for that

807
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:12,280
Speaker 1: long and not losing people is difficult, but it's because

808
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: it is so good and it takes everybody, but you

809
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 1: are a steady stand at the top of it. There.

810
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 3: Well, my gift, if I have any gift, is to conduct.

811
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 3: You know, I can't really play the instruments, and I

812
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 3: can't write the music per se either, and I am

813
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 3: a very good conductory. And that's what I do. I mean,

814
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 3: that's why I really see my job is, you know,

815
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 3: let's make sure the timpany comes in right here. Let's

816
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 3: build this like this. Yeah, let's everyone start and let's go.

817
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 3: And it's because there's really no other drop I can

818
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 3: do well enough that I've ended up being the conductor

819
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 3: slash director because I cannot act or I can't descript

820
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 3: supervising or props or camera or anything. So I ended

821
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 3: up being the conductor and I conducted there I do.

822
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 3: I think it's it's really a skill. And also, guys,

823
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,959
Speaker 3: I was doing Sons of an Anarchy at the same time.

824
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 3: I know you know this, Jenna, but we were like

825
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 3: shooting our mothers and killing Russians and Chinese people by

826
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 3: the boat load with great regularity. By the time we

827
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 3: were getting towards the end of both of these shows

828
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 3: because they were kind of parallel, and I needed a break,

829
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 3: and that's what Glee was just for me, and then

830
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 3: eventually for the viewer. It was this great, exhausting I mean,

831
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 3: great way to take you away from your exhausting world

832
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 3: to kind of this this beautiful place. That's why people

833
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 3: look forward to it. People really look forward to it.

834
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 3: It was appointment television wanted to see their Glee, and

835
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 3: they were excited when it was preempted. It was a

836
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 3: big deal. It was like, there's not going to be Glee,

837
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 3: you know. It's like, will I be able to get

838
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 3: through the next week? Because we were so we were

839
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 3: so hooked on that that feeling. We were hooked on

840
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 3: a feeling.

841
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: That's what we looked on.

842
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 3: We can outlive.

843
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: A vocalist.

844
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 3: Also, I'm not a vocalist. As you can see. It's

845
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 3: just a list of things I cannot do.

846
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 1: Thanks Paris.

847
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're sad that it's all done, but we couldn't

848
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 2: have done it without you and to have you back

849
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 2: in to recount all of these things, and.

850
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 3: It is my pleasure, it's my one of I'm trying

851
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 3: to think, are there any shows that bring me as

852
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:37,479
Speaker 3: much joy as g we did and or that still

853
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 3: resonate with me? I guess the West Wing in a

854
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 3: different way was a professional experience for me, but I

855
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 3: only did three episodes of that, and I think in

856
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 3: Treatment also, oh yes, really resonates still to this day

857
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 3: with me. I watched an episode with ur fun Con

858
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 3: just because I was thinking of him, and and Glee.

859
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 3: I think those are the three shows of of my

860
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 3: time here on Earth that always will be gifts. Wow,

861
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 3: I think there are gifts to me, and there were

862
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 3: gifts to the audience. They were beyond just being shows.

863
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 3: They were significant culturally and they had important things to say,

864
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 3: and they said them, and with some gray suits and

865
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:22,959
Speaker 3: elegance and sometimes not always perfectly, but that's the that's

866
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 3: the genius of genius. Sometimes it's messy, but it delivers.

867
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: Oh wow, thank you, thank you, thank you for doing this.

868
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 3: I really appreciate it. I love listening to it. And

869
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 3: I have to watch season six. I didn't watch season six,

870
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 3: so I'm really I should.

871
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 2: Watch season six.

872
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: I really, it's I.

873
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 3: Want to watch it. I didn't watch it. I was

874
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 3: just too busy, And.

875
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 1: I'm I think there's some really lovely moments that you'll really.

876
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 3: Go back and watch it because of y'all.

877
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 1: Some good laughs, yeah, and some you know, craziness where

878
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 1: we get off the rails a little bit, but you're

879
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: used to that. You know that we'll come back.

880
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 3: I've seen a few episodes of it, but I haven't

881
00:46:58,360 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 3: seen the whole series.

882
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 4: So thank you.

883
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 3: So much.

884
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: Christopher.

885
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 3: Than Town will invite you over because we never do

886
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 3: that anymore. Will have to drag your asses over.

887
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: You will be there and whistles, kids are okay in

888
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: my house? Good luck. I don't know, all right, Well.

889
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 3: Love you guys.

890
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,919
Speaker 1: What a man, truly, what a man?

891
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 2: I just so much joy. I just don't think I

892
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 2: realized how much of a fan of the show he

893
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 2: was as well, And that means so much coming from somebody,

894
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 2: And like also just speaks to the care and that

895
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 2: he gave when he came in and to all of

896
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 2: us into the show. And I mean, he's such an

897
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 2: extraordinary career, an extraordinary resume, and he's been around forever

898
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 2: and he doesn't have to be this way, but he

899
00:47:57,560 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 2: is because that's the person he is.

900
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 1: And he's just so.

901
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: Excellent and what he does and still so humble and

902
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 2: has just seen it all. So we're just I mean,

903
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 2: when we learned that Paris was coming on to do

904
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:13,280
Speaker 2: our show, I remember being like, whoa, that's like one episode,

905
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 2: that's a big deal.

906
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: And it was intimidating. Yeah, And as you hear though,

907
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: he sure he can be intimidating because he's seen a

908
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: lot and he's worked on incredibly successful shows, but he

909
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: walks in with that level of care and attention to

910
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: detail and really care. He's really great with actors, really

911
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: really good with actors, and so us who were pretty

912
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 1: green coming into this, he really held our hand through

913
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: it and never never made us feel like we didn't

914
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: know what we were doing because he's a fan of television,

915
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: he's a fan of you know, this style of storytelling

916
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 1: and clearly a fan of musicals in the show. And

917
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: so it was every day we got to work with him.

918
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 1: Every time he was back, I was so excited. We

919
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: all were the best.

920
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you so much Paris for listening to

921
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,280
Speaker 2: our podcast us too, and also being such a wonderful

922
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 2: mentor guest friend. We love you, we appreciate you, and

923
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,240
Speaker 2: Gilee appreciates you. We know this, and just keep shining

924
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 2: your light.

925
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,919
Speaker 1: And truly, after all the good details he gave us,

926
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: that's what you really missed. Thanks for listening and follow

927
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at and that's what you really miss pod.

928
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: Make sure to write us a review and leave us

929
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 1: five stars. See you next time.