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Speaker 1: Joining me now is somebody who may or may not
Speaker 1: be interested in national office someday, but he's certainly got
Speaker 1: a lot to say about where the Democratic Party ought
Speaker 1: to be, what policy focuses ought to be. And I've
Speaker 1: been fascinated to follow what Ram Emmanuel's been up to
Speaker 1: because he's tackling issues that, if you read the polls,
Speaker 1: are issues that sort of less political Americans want politicians
Speaker 1: to focus on, probably the biggest one being education. And
Speaker 1: everything derivative from there. He is not going out there
Speaker 1: trying to be the shiny object of the second And
Speaker 1: you know, you could argue maybe we're playing a little
Speaker 1: tortoise and hair aspect to this. So I enjoy catching
Speaker 1: up with roma Manuel because he's a lot of smart
Speaker 1: things to say. And at the same time, he's been
Speaker 1: around a block a few times politically, and this current
Speaker 1: political environment looks awfully familiar to me from a political
Speaker 1: environment that you oversaw in two thousand and six. So
Speaker 1: there's a ton of things I want to get to.
Speaker 1: But first let me start with with a simple question
Speaker 1: other besides speaking out when I see you speak out
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, what else are you doing right now?
Speaker 1: Like tell me your what's what's the average week like
Speaker 1: for Ron e Manuel?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I'm uh so. I was on the
Speaker 2: way about a week ago. It's one of my favorite
Speaker 2: habits or pastimes. I was gonna go give the keynote
Speaker 2: to Lynda Vane's Johnson Library, which is all the presidential libraries.
Speaker 2: I really love that library. Why so because I actually
Speaker 2: think the architecture, uh number from Chicago soil were kind
Speaker 2: of I think the architecture captures the personality of the
Speaker 2: president is just big. It's power. It just you know,
Speaker 2: you walk in there's a picture, big black and white
Speaker 2: ten by ten him signing the civil rights at the
Speaker 2: Voting Rights Act, and then there's a line of wall
Speaker 2: of pens going all leading you all the way to
Speaker 2: the photo of every bill he ever signed. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's just like it says Johnson. And then now it
Speaker 2: get captures a character. And anyway, so I picked up
Speaker 2: when I texted Doris Kurrn's going her book Unfinished Love
Speaker 2: Story about her and her husband and Zara back. So
Speaker 2: I've been to amy by why by coincidence, we didn't
Speaker 2: plan this. I'm reading it, she's listening to it, and
Speaker 2: so that's kind of and then obviously my three kids
Speaker 2: and they're in different points in their lives, etc. But
Speaker 2: then I'm you know, reading a lot on AI. I'm
Speaker 2: learning besides my I try to read a book every
Speaker 2: three weeks, but I've started to solicit. I had dinner
Speaker 2: the other day with the CEO of Anthropic and we
Speaker 2: had a dinner for a little over a couple hours
Speaker 2: and he gave me some reading and I've been reading
Speaker 2: on that. Somebody else gave me some other stuff, so
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get smart on that. I took a
Speaker 2: subject next is energy production here in the United States
Speaker 2: and great and distribution. So I take a topic and
Speaker 2: try to delve as deep as I can. But if
Speaker 2: you ask me, what is occupied my time making sure
Speaker 2: my three kids are off to a good start in life,
Speaker 2: and which they are.
Speaker 1: But you know, it sounds like whether you look, I
Speaker 1: know you're thinking about it. You could do it, maybe
Speaker 1: you don't do it, but it sounds like you're you know,
Speaker 1: if you said you're going to run for president, what
Speaker 1: do you do to prepare? Well, one of the things
Speaker 1: I might suggest is, well, why don't you go learn
Speaker 1: about AI because if you've got a govern and economy
Speaker 1: that's going to be driven by this, because that's what
Speaker 1: you want to do. Yeah, you better know a lot
Speaker 1: more about it, because I have a feeling our last
Speaker 1: two presidents, the current one and the previous one, didn't
Speaker 1: know much about it.
Speaker 2: Hey, well, a couple of things on let me unpack
Speaker 2: like twenty of the questions right there. One what I'm
Speaker 2: very excited about, and this is since we're both political
Speaker 2: junkies but also policy Chuck twenty twenty eight will be
Speaker 2: the first national election in twenty years. In my view,
Speaker 2: that will be about the future, not the past. If
Speaker 2: you really look at Build Back Better and Maga you're
Speaker 2: driving fifty five miles an hour head looking through the
Speaker 2: rare view mirror twenty twenty eight, both for our party's primary,
Speaker 2: and you also look at our primaries, I'm going to
Speaker 2: had this in so a real discussion about the future
Speaker 2: and the countries. Naturally, the general election will be about
Speaker 2: the future, not the past. There won't be some kind
Speaker 2: of yearn to a era that bygone time? What will
Speaker 2: America be? So to me, that's exciting and b whatever
Speaker 2: you come down to wild Western AI, don't let it
Speaker 2: go forward AI kind of those are the extreme positions.
Speaker 2: Whatever it is. We have a very technical innovative advantage
Speaker 2: against China. They have an energy system that can do it.
Speaker 2: And we got to neutralize a negative that allows a positive.
Speaker 2: So to me, those are two subjects that are tied.
Speaker 2: But the other thing is you ain't getting from here
Speaker 2: to there, and those is you know, I have focused
Speaker 2: on education now in two weeks from now, you know,
Speaker 2: I went to Mississippi to talk about elementary education, etc.
Speaker 2: And see the mississip be Reading miracle in Michigan, in
Speaker 2: Grand Rapids and in uh how I will lay out
Speaker 2: a vocational ad plan because the ticket to the middle
Speaker 2: class runs through the classroom. Without it, like the Langran colleges,
Speaker 2: like the universal high school education, like the GI bill,
Speaker 2: like the Science of text Footnick Challenge. Without it, there's
Speaker 2: no middle class in America. That's the door you got
Speaker 2: to walk through to open up all the other doors.
Speaker 2: And to me, now, one last comment, and then this
Speaker 2: is also politics, which I'm you and I are at
Speaker 2: least the two of us are good at I found
Speaker 2: it fascinating. In the Texas special, the Republicans said, oh,
Speaker 2: this is a warning, which is true. Democrats said, look
Speaker 2: at his background. What he said was was nobody you listen.
Speaker 2: I stayed away from all the cultural issues and I
Speaker 2: focused on education and vocational line. Do you ever hear
Speaker 2: that before from so anybody else? That's my point I've
Speaker 2: been talking about because as you said, it may not
Speaker 2: be one. It may it doesn't come quote unquote under affordability,
Speaker 2: but it's where people live their lives.
Speaker 1: So I saw, I observed a focus group, and I
Speaker 1: keep sharing this anecdote because it really sort of jarred me.
Speaker 1: And I got two kids now, both of my ket
Speaker 1: got one about to graduate college and one as a
Speaker 1: freshman in college.
Speaker 2: Mother, thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a first year of empty nest, which really sucks.
Speaker 1: When there's a big snowstorm that.
Speaker 2: That would be real. Go shovel your mother wants it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, none of that works, right, And there
Speaker 3: was a participant in there that said something interesting that
Speaker 3: sort of haunted me about education, which he says, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: You know, he says, you know, ten years ago, everybody
Speaker 1: said kids had to learn to code, right, and now
Speaker 1: what are we learning with AI That might be a
Speaker 1: meaningless skill, ye, right, something that we were trying to
Speaker 1: reorientate stem education, right, We were trying to reorient a lot
Speaker 1: of education that way. And the way that this person
Speaker 1: worded it was sort of, you know, my greatest fear
Speaker 1: is I don't even know what skills my kid needs
Speaker 1: to succeed when they go out into the world, because
Speaker 1: it keeps changing so fast. And I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: I think my parents had an idea of what I
Speaker 1: needed to know to be out in the world. I
Speaker 1: think I've tried. I certainly guided my kids to where
Speaker 1: I think they can succeed. I got one in oceanography,
Speaker 1: one in sports marketing, where I know is a future
Speaker 1: oriented posture. Right, But that comment struck me because I
Speaker 1: get it right, things are moving so fast. What are
Speaker 1: we getting? What's the education for?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: And what skills? You know, we haven't redesigned our public
Speaker 1: education system since it started.
Speaker 2: Well, right, so it's years. Yeah, so let me two
Speaker 2: to three.
Speaker 1: So what do you make of that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, Look, one is when I was mayor, one
Speaker 2: of the most I think monumental changes we made only
Speaker 2: school system in the country to do this. You couldn't
Speaker 2: get your high school diploma without showing us a letter
Speaker 2: of acceptance from a college, a community college, a branch
Speaker 2: of the Armed forces, or vocational school.
Speaker 1: Was the only was it the only.
Speaker 2: Only system in the country. Is called Learn Plan Succeed. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and we hired a ton of college and career counselors.
Speaker 2: I mean it was backed up with you know, we
Speaker 2: were the first city ever to do free community college.
Speaker 2: If you earned to be average, et cetera. To me,
Speaker 2: you want to be a plumber, you want to be
Speaker 2: an electrician? Great, you want to go be a marine Great.
Speaker 2: You want to be a paralegal nurse or a nurse. Great,
Speaker 2: you want to be a mechanical engineer great? Or you
Speaker 2: want to d G mannais. You are not walking on
Speaker 2: graduation day without telling us where you're walking to m
Speaker 2: H and the Todd children got that direction at home.
Speaker 2: Not every child gets that direction. So set the expectation,
Speaker 2: give the support. And in this future world, as the
Speaker 2: Ford CEO said just a month ago, I got seven
Speaker 2: thousand jobs paying six figure with benefits, and I got
Speaker 2: nobody apply it. I don't know that has the skills,
Speaker 2: so I don't. And AAI won't change vocational carpentry, electrician.
Speaker 2: It won't eliminate it. I should say, not change it.
Speaker 2: May change it, but it won't eliminate it and the
Speaker 2: need for it. And that's true a nurse or specialization
Speaker 2: of nurse. That's true in other professions. But the fundamentals
Speaker 2: in third grade, you're gonna have to learn how to read,
Speaker 2: whether AI exists or not. You're gonna have to know
Speaker 2: how to do math regardless. Now you may be right
Speaker 2: about coding, but to me, when you said it hasn't
Speaker 2: changed in one hundred years. The biggest reform we did
Speaker 2: in Chicago that I think is relevant is the high
Speaker 2: school education. When we made universal b average, you got
Speaker 2: free community college. In Chicago, fifty percent of our kids
Speaker 2: graduated with college credit under their belt on graduation day.
Speaker 2: And third, ninety eight percent met the requirement of producing
Speaker 2: a letter from a college, a community college, a branch
Speaker 2: of the armed versus or vocational. And eighty percent of
Speaker 2: the jobs up tomorrow requires something post high school. And
Speaker 2: we haven't fixed the education system to meet that eighty
Speaker 2: percent benchmark. And that's you know, that's why I talked
Speaker 2: about it. And then to me, this is the ultimate
Speaker 2: thing every parent's trying to figure out. Your parents articulated,
Speaker 2: AI other parents particulated. You know, they learned a lot
Speaker 2: during COVID about what was happening at their local school
Speaker 2: or not like it. No, And and since we're also
Speaker 2: junkies about politics, it was interesting twenty years ago, fifteen
Speaker 2: years ago, remember when they used to do the battery,
Speaker 2: which part of you trust more? Healthcare? Taxis national security debt? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2: New York Times bolt. And there was another I think
Speaker 2: was CNN pul They did that bat each of them
Speaker 2: did their battery. Education wasn't on it, and there didn't
Speaker 2: even rise, and yet you have a thirty year low
Speaker 2: in reading, and maybe you just may want to ask.
Speaker 2: And the guy they just won, a Democrat that just
Speaker 2: wanted a Texas special spend seventy thousand dollars on a
Speaker 2: district that's bigger than the congressional district. The beat somebody
Speaker 2: ten to one ran on one issue. Education.
Speaker 1: Well, this is an interesting let's mix it with the
Speaker 1: politics here theything mixes everything checks this Kansas is your blueprint?
Speaker 1: Right when brown Back messed with the education funding boom Right,
Speaker 1: there's now sixteen of the last twenty four years in
Speaker 1: Kansas have been have had been democratic governors? Yes, right,
Speaker 1: and it has been over this essentially education. Rob sand
Speaker 1: is probably going to be the next guy. I might
Speaker 1: be over my skis a little bit okay, but I
Speaker 1: certainly would bet on him being the next governor anybody
Speaker 1: else right now, assuming he stays laser focused on education,
Speaker 1: because a whole bunch of eye ones are really ticked off.
Speaker 1: The voucherization idea right in rural America sounds great until
Speaker 1: you find out, well, what school choice exists. Yes, and
Speaker 1: this is Texas too, So there's a this is a
Speaker 1: and I don't get the national Democrats don't seem to
Speaker 1: be fully engaged on this because they're like, well, education
Speaker 1: is a local issue, yeah, but it's a national issue that, well,
Speaker 1: it is just governed local.
Speaker 2: Your last two presidents who got reelected, one head raised
Speaker 2: to the top, ran on it and reran and the
Speaker 2: other one ran on public school choice and teachers of excellence.
Speaker 2: So and you can't tell me the last two, meaning
Speaker 2: Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, what their education policy was
Speaker 2: except for open the bathroom door. Can't do it. And
Speaker 2: to me, that tells you why a twenty point advantage
Speaker 2: on an issue that touches everybody, we now have para
Speaker 2: pursue now. I happen to think our kids are suffering
Speaker 2: from two things. Republicans have abandoned public education and Democrats
Speaker 2: have abandoned accountability. And our kids are falling through the crack.
Speaker 2: That's what's happening, and that's on us.
Speaker 1: I think it's a it's a very fair argument, and
Speaker 1: the the you know you. I would also argue that
Speaker 1: the reason for Democrats losing Latino voters because when you've
Speaker 1: ever you know, I used to there was it was
Speaker 1: a standard thing where your top three concerns among if
Speaker 1: you're among Latino voters, and it was always some combination.
Speaker 1: Education was always higher among Latino voters than it was
Speaker 1: among all voters. Right, Education particularly for this is true
Speaker 1: of all first generation immigrant groups in this country. Right,
Speaker 1: Education is always right up there with the economy, and
Speaker 1: then sometimes over the economy.
Speaker 2: All immigrant groups, whether they've crossed the Real, the Pacific,
Speaker 2: or the Atlantic or the Mississippi, all of them always
Speaker 2: put education top because they made that struggle for the
Speaker 2: next generation. And that door of the school is that
Speaker 2: door into the middle class and every dream your parents
Speaker 2: had for you.
Speaker 1: Right. And I think, just to put a period on
Speaker 1: this sentence, the only party even talking about education usually
Speaker 1: is the Republicans, not the Democrats.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I mean this gets to uh, this will
Speaker 2: age me. I don't care. I grew up at a
Speaker 2: time when you had Governor Bill Clinton, Governor Hunt, Governor
Speaker 2: Writhy becomes Clinton secretary.
Speaker 1: But it was also Governor Alexander who was.
Speaker 2: Governor Winter, Governor Childs, Governor Miller. Now these were titans.
Speaker 2: They were in a competitive race to be the education
Speaker 2: governor had two things. I just told you before we
Speaker 2: got on what am I doing? And I was talking
Speaker 2: about going to the Linda Vane Johnson. If you go
Speaker 2: back and look at the stuff. While we know him,
Speaker 2: remember him for obviously the War on Poverty, the Great Society,
Speaker 2: But his what he wanted to be remembered as was
Speaker 2: the education government. That's what he wanted to be remembered for.
Speaker 2: There's probably of one subject passed more individual bills in
Speaker 2: the education column than anything else.
Speaker 1: Why are there Why did lotteries spread like wildfire from
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety to nineteen ninety six?
Speaker 2: Education?
Speaker 1: Right, everybody said I'm going to start at lottery and
Speaker 1: use it to fund education. Now, of course the problem
Speaker 1: is every state legislature said, great, now we don't need
Speaker 1: to fund education by education the lottery.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, so look, but I think here's the thing.
Speaker 1: And then you were gonna pivot.
Speaker 2: This is also what I care about. Passion of mice.
Speaker 2: I happened to think is what the public cares about.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna, as I said, I went to Mississippi, laid
Speaker 2: out in an elementary what.
Speaker 1: Did you learn about the Mississippi story? Because you know
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who didn't think Mississippi's education
Speaker 1: plans would work. What why do you think it worked well?
Speaker 2: Two things. One is I've been following the debates on
Speaker 2: other topics, but when Louisiana, Tennessee, and Alabama replicate it
Speaker 2: and see similar games, this was not a one trick pony.
Speaker 2: So this was clearly they had figured it out. And
Speaker 2: the truth is they didn't really figure out except for
Speaker 2: their return to the fundamentals. They rewired every teacher around
Speaker 2: the science of reading, phonics, train train trade, and they
Speaker 2: get constant trating it's not one and done right. They
Speaker 2: get a coach, the school gets a coach. The school
Speaker 2: coach coaches the principal coaches all the teachers on the sun.
Speaker 1: And they give them the subject of teaching reading essentially. Okay.
Speaker 2: Two, they have a minimum. I'm doing this by memory,
Speaker 2: but I think it's an hour and fifteen minute per
Speaker 2: day for every child. Second is as a child is going.
Speaker 2: If that individual child needs more support than the hour
Speaker 2: and fifteen minutes every day, they get a tutor. Now,
Speaker 2: one thing I will say is and to their credit,
Speaker 2: and I met with mister Barksdale, the guy that created
Speaker 2: and that'scaped the thunder this whole thing. I suppose structurally
Speaker 2: there was no other option. You couldn't kind of opt out.
Speaker 2: This is what you were doing. To get in Mississippi money.
Speaker 2: You had to do this. So this was not like
Speaker 2: local control. They would no. And second is they're honest
Speaker 2: with themselves. They said, okay, we're doing really well, but
Speaker 2: we start to lose momentum in fourth and fifth grade.
Speaker 2: So they're now setting up reading clinics to try to
Speaker 2: figure out how to keep the third grade momentum going.
Speaker 2: There's also a one as element I left and everybody
Speaker 2: some A lot of people forget. If you don't meet
Speaker 2: the standard after I think it's three tests, you don't
Speaker 2: get advance to fourth grade. Now they don't just do
Speaker 2: read and get done. They do training support for teachers,
Speaker 2: rewiring on phone X, keeping them pop to pop. You know,
Speaker 2: of their game. The principle understands it. They get kind
Speaker 2: of trained down it. The kids get a guaranteed minimum time.
Speaker 2: If you need more, they will get you more support.
Speaker 2: And obviously if you fail, you don't go forward. But
Speaker 2: if you succeed and not only go forward, but then
Speaker 2: they have Now these reading clinics that they're going to
Speaker 2: try to figure out how to keep the momentum. And
Speaker 2: as I said, Louisiana, Tennessee, Alabama, there's a county in
Speaker 2: Florida called Indian River County. All who have replicated all
Speaker 2: are seeing the same thing. So get back and do
Speaker 2: the fundamentals and your kids will meet the scores. And
Speaker 2: I did this in Chicago. I look at Mississippi's demographics
Speaker 2: and every smarty pants that every Ivy League school would
Speaker 2: tell you, not those kids, not that zip code, not
Speaker 2: that race, not that gender, not that income. They tell
Speaker 2: you one hundred excuses. And Mississippi said, retired of being
Speaker 2: dead last from forty ninth to ninth. They went game on, Baby, It's.
Speaker 1: A great game on. It's a great story. This episode
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Speaker 1: percent off. Let's pivot a little bit to politics, which
Speaker 1: is and I want to talk about because you, I
Speaker 1: know you want to talk a little bit about what
Speaker 1: Trump said about nationalizing federalizing elections. And I wrote a
Speaker 1: whole substack on this phenomenon, and maybe this is more
Speaker 1: of a media issue, but also I think you as
Speaker 1: a politician have to figure out, you know, if you're
Speaker 1: trying to get people fired up about something, you have
Speaker 1: to find a way to get them interested in the topic.
Speaker 1: And here you have there's always what Trump says, and
Speaker 1: then there's stuff Trump does. And we have a remarkable
Speaker 1: capacity to focus on what he says and not enough
Speaker 1: on what he does. And the Abu Dhabi story in
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal which I think you wrote, you know,
Speaker 1: is just you know, it's it's one of those things
Speaker 1: we're so numb to it it takes your breath away, unbelievable.
Speaker 1: This is bigger than Teapot Dome. And I think Teapot
Speaker 1: Dome is the worst scandal against the American taxpayer in history. Yes,
Speaker 1: and this is this dwarfs it. It's not even a
Speaker 1: close call. Never mind, we don't even get to the
Speaker 1: fact that pardons are regularly sold. This is like a
Speaker 1: weekly thing. Every week there's a new round of pardons.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, Roger Stone has a client, and yet.
Speaker 2: You know, and the overalls has become eBay.
Speaker 1: So why do you think you can get blaring hair
Speaker 1: on fire coverage on federalizing elections but essentially stealing from
Speaker 1: the American taxpayer and selling American foreign policy, which is
Speaker 1: what this was. And look, I think we want to
Speaker 1: be in business with UAE, you know, in a professional
Speaker 1: cap Okay, this is an important country, and so I'm
Speaker 1: not saying we shouldn't be in a straight up diplomatic
Speaker 1: and trade relation economic relationship country to country, but we
Speaker 1: shouldn't practice politics the way they practice politic well, and
Speaker 1: it's also a constitutional Last time you've.
Speaker 2: Heard you've hit up pilot one is you're right, we
Speaker 2: should be engaging the UA for both strategic, commercial and
Speaker 2: other interests. His problem is we're engaging the UA for
Speaker 2: the Trump family commercial interests, not the Americans and the
Speaker 2: Wickaw family. Very clear, it's not Yeah, this is a
Speaker 2: second is you have And I think this has an
Speaker 2: impact on the president. As I wrote the other day
Speaker 2: in their drone, they feel betrayed. He was supposed to
Speaker 2: work on the American people's checkbook and he's focused on
Speaker 2: the Trump family checkbook and they know it, and they
Speaker 2: feel betrayed. And we have not seen the wholesale uh
Speaker 2: corruption like this, as you say, go back to teapot Dome.
Speaker 2: But there's other elements. I've never seen something that is
Speaker 2: so brazen. I happen to think there's a broken windows
Speaker 2: strategy here, which is they've permitted the smaller crimes, have
Speaker 2: kind of knocked down your antibodies, and it's created an
Speaker 2: environment for a bigger If you.
Speaker 1: Notice who he pardons, the type of crime he always pardons.
Speaker 2: White collars, always financial.
Speaker 1: And every single one of them.
Speaker 2: It's not a coincidence. Nope, No, there's a pattern besides
Speaker 2: the cash and carry business in the Oval office. But
Speaker 2: this is what happened. Now, it'd be nice if you
Speaker 2: two things. I will say, he's gonna do what he's
Speaker 2: gonna do, right. It'd be good if you had a
Speaker 2: other branch of government holding the administration accoldable, holding hearings,
Speaker 2: not just for the sake of holding hearings, because you
Speaker 2: have to shed light on this, and there is an
Speaker 2: element you now have. I think the deputy attorney not deputy.
Speaker 2: I forgot Martin's title, but he is leaking a grand
Speaker 2: jury testimony and he quickly is getting out. But you
Speaker 2: know what, I also Roberts Supreme Court. Remember inaugirl day,
Speaker 2: Trump flok Sap goes thank you, just again, thank you
Speaker 2: right at him. He gave him again on a jail
Speaker 2: card when he says, there's no way you can hold
Speaker 2: the president accountable. So you can't hold them accountable. So
Speaker 2: therefore he's gonna steal the money. And the Supreme Court
Speaker 2: under Roberts has to be also. That's why that's why
Speaker 2: I'm in the view seventy five up and out across
Speaker 2: all three branches of government, because these guys have gotten
Speaker 2: really lazy.
Speaker 1: Well, I agree with there on that, but I actually
Speaker 1: still blame the courts got put into a position to
Speaker 1: be getting involved in more activities that Congress should be doing. Right,
Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about it, I've actually you know,
Speaker 1: I think our problem is Congress, right, the ineffect, the
Speaker 1: fact that it doesn't work. Right, they don't know it's
Speaker 1: it's a big problem. Right. It doesn't want to be
Speaker 1: the accountability branch. It's not doing these things, but even
Speaker 1: simpler stuff. Right, why do we Why are the courts
Speaker 1: involved in reproductive rights because Congress wouldn't deal with it?
Speaker 1: Why did the courts have to get involved with desegregation
Speaker 1: because the Congress wouldn't deal with it?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Our broken Congress has then made people have to go
Speaker 1: to the courts. And then, of course the more the
Speaker 1: courts have been active, then you create interest groups that
Speaker 1: are trying to politicize the courts when ultimately the core patient,
Speaker 1: the patient.
Speaker 2: Zeros aren't as a reform member of Congress, yeah, here
Speaker 2: served elected four terms, served only three. Look, they have
Speaker 2: walked away from their responsibility full stuff. And because they're
Speaker 2: not on point. As a co equal branch of government,
Speaker 2: you have a caffeinated executive branch right, run three bottles
Speaker 2: of red Bull or cancer red Bull. And you have
Speaker 2: a Supreme Court that, in my view, you can you
Speaker 2: can give them. I'm not giving them a pass that
Speaker 2: you cut. I think they they know they gave a
Speaker 2: This is exactly I don't mean to get historical here,
Speaker 2: but you go to the Federals papers. This is exactly why,
Speaker 2: uh what Hamilton and Madison were very concerned about, which
Speaker 2: is a corrupt executive and there and the court says,
Speaker 2: whatever you do, you can't be held legally responsible. Now,
Speaker 2: I just tell you that was a get on. That
Speaker 2: was all this guy needs to get out of jail
Speaker 2: and that and he's going to take it all the
Speaker 2: way to the bank, and we're going to be left
Speaker 2: holding the bag of Americans and him and his kids
Speaker 2: are gonna he's in here to make money and his
Speaker 2: kids are going to make use of every day. And
Speaker 2: you get that Wall Street Journal story. I don't know
Speaker 2: about you. I read it twice because I as an
Speaker 2: Emmanuel's never speechless. I was speechless. I could not believe.
Speaker 2: And let me ask you a question, how many people
Speaker 2: in the elected position today, Well, we're dealing with all
Speaker 2: these subjects. Any of them said, we need a understanding
Speaker 2: of what's went on here. We're selling probably the most
Speaker 2: important national security chip that we scared could go to China.
Speaker 2: We're selling it. We still have the same concerns. Now
Speaker 2: I'm going to back up to you, and this gets
Speaker 2: to kind of another point. While I want to talk
Speaker 2: about nationals, that decision, et cetera, et cetera. This tells
Speaker 2: you how much Congress and Washington. But Congress, I'll give
Speaker 2: you that and the impact with no Washington post on
Speaker 2: point Yeah, you have the head the Director of National Intelligence.
Speaker 2: You have China g unbeknownst to anybody else, firing as
Speaker 2: head of the armed forces, and every intelligence agency across
Speaker 2: the globe is looking at our Director of National Intelligence
Speaker 2: is in Fulton, Georgia. Ways said, no, no, you laughed.
Speaker 2: We're about to go into the talks with Iran. I
Speaker 2: know what happens. You get these intel briefs on what
Speaker 2: you think, where are the divisions in the Iranian position,
Speaker 2: Who's for what, etc? Are D and I Director and
Speaker 2: not Fulton, Georgia. You're about to host Russia, Ukraine in
Speaker 2: the United States, and one of the most important part
Speaker 2: of the negotiations, whereas europe our Director of National Intelligence Fulton, Georgia,
Speaker 2: looking at ballots tells you everything you need to know
Speaker 2: about this administration. You have three and I'm probably leaving
Speaker 2: five events off across the globe. There's sixteen plus intelligence agency,
Speaker 2: a feeding interr. She's in Fulton, Georgia calling the president's
Speaker 2: cell phones so he can talk to the FBI agents. Okay,
Speaker 2: you want to know why America's got a problem. We
Speaker 2: got an administration with the wrong priorities and the American
Speaker 2: people know, which is why the republics are going to
Speaker 2: pay a price this November.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting you put it that way because I
Speaker 1: am somebody who still thinks, look, the election system's going
Speaker 1: to happen. But I know I'm sure people come up
Speaker 1: to you because they come up to me when I
Speaker 1: give talks. Are you sure he's going to accept the
Speaker 1: mid terms? Are you sure he's going to not invoke
Speaker 1: the Insurrection Act? Are you sure? And it's like, look,
Speaker 1: with Trump, nothing's you know, there's no one hundred percent okay,
Speaker 1: And I and I accept that there are certain things
Speaker 1: he can't screw with. And I think our election systems
Speaker 1: are so diffuse and so you know, you know, the
Speaker 1: lack of federalization is what makes is a feature not
Speaker 1: a bug. Right, So I'm I'm pretty confident that we're
Speaker 1: going to have a normal, small d democratic response to
Speaker 1: this administration. Am I not alarmist enough? Where are you
Speaker 1: on this? Because you know, being an alarmist in some
Speaker 1: ways is it could be good politics for the moment,
Speaker 1: you know, like you've got somebody, Look, Gavin Newsom's out
Speaker 1: there saying this is what he wants to do. And
Speaker 1: you can't say Gavin's wrong, but I think he's made
Speaker 1: a bit of alarmist but I understand who he's talking to.
Speaker 2: Let's say it, well, three things. One is, I do
Speaker 2: think it's weird that nobody watching him made the connection
Speaker 2: between the Director of National Intelligence is infulted and you
Speaker 2: have three massive international events.
Speaker 1: Right, But you're you're accepting the premise that she's actually
Speaker 1: a player in the intelligence.
Speaker 2: I'm accepting the premise that does the United States Senate
Speaker 2: confirmed her knowing full well every one of them that
Speaker 2: was she was perfect. Yes, look at mister Cassidy and
Speaker 2: his big conscious vote for Kennedy. Now he's getting his
Speaker 2: butt kicked lost his conscious and lost his election number
Speaker 2: two on the alarmist versus art. What keeps me up
Speaker 2: is the are going to do a lot fbi ice
Speaker 2: before the election. But it's, as you said, the diffusion
Speaker 2: because he's trying to consolidate it. We'll keep it somewhat,
Speaker 2: have some antibodies and protection. I worry about the post
Speaker 2: election and seeding.
Speaker 1: That's funny, that's what I bring up. Okay, so close environment. Yes,
Speaker 1: so people in about the power of the House on this.
Speaker 2: Okay, so here is I said this here who was
Speaker 2: in the Mississippi town hall? Uh, well, we did up
Speaker 2: in the Water Valley, and I said, if somebody asked
Speaker 2: something kind of along the lines of what you asked,
Speaker 2: but you know, close enough, it's a cousin of what
Speaker 2: you asked. I said, Look, what I really worry about
Speaker 2: is from this perspective, I think he's going to do
Speaker 2: a lot before the election. I happen to think the
Speaker 2: thin blue line that's going to protect this country is
Speaker 2: the American people. This is court walked, Corporate America walked, media,
Speaker 2: titans and owners walked. The American people will protect this country.
Speaker 2: And I have confidence in that he and he is
Speaker 2: not a look, the president of is says, I don't
Speaker 2: agree with me, but he knows that Democrats in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five one thirteen out of thirteen state wide elections.
Speaker 2: He knows what's coming.
Speaker 1: So he's going to do talking about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's gonna do anything. He's going to do everything
Speaker 2: he can, sorry, bother, everything he can before the election.
Speaker 2: I still believe not after. The Constitution is very clear
Speaker 2: about the role of the speaker in organizing the House.
Speaker 2: The former speaker has a role before you get to
Speaker 2: the new Congress to let the new speaker. And I
Speaker 2: believe if you ask me, one part of my brain says,
Speaker 2: I'm kind of at forty to sixty on the paranoia
Speaker 2: after the election. I'm seven d thirty eighty twenty because January.
Speaker 1: Sixth, Yeah, in this case it's January third, right, Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I worry about. Well, it's funny you say that,
Speaker 1: and I'm the additional detail I include when I and
Speaker 1: I say when I'm like, look, I'm not worried about November.
Speaker 1: If it's really close, like I also think you can
Speaker 1: it's eight seats or less, correct, it's a blowout. I
Speaker 1: don't think Mike Johnson can do anything. But if we're
Speaker 1: talking like what we just had in twenty two and
Speaker 1: in twenty you know, we're sitting here in a three
Speaker 1: to five seat swing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Ready, I want to do the phone call for you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you can find me.
Speaker 1: The votes, you can find me or you don't have
Speaker 1: to see certain people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is and Johnson. No, I'm not exactly what
Speaker 2: I say is a profound courage. You're gonna need a
Speaker 2: Mike Pence courage. And I'm not sure Speaker Johnson has that.
Speaker 2: I think it's pretty Yeah, yeah, I don't. And you
Speaker 2: know I did it some way.
Speaker 1: I mean, I am one of those who sort of
Speaker 1: I will respect how he got there. He's only there
Speaker 1: thanks to the one person, Donald Trump, Right, So he's
Speaker 1: going to do his bidding because his political career is
Speaker 1: over if he doesn't. And that's the that's the scary
Speaker 1: part of it.
Speaker 2: So you asked me, I get why. No, I don't
Speaker 2: I understand why Governor k Newsom would say what he said. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I'm not like I think it's a but in
Speaker 2: the you know the joke, you know the joke, John
Speaker 2: Even paranoid people have enemies. So in the business of
Speaker 2: having a paranoia. Mine is on January third, not on
Speaker 2: November six. Yeah, I think that's the date. Yeah.
Speaker 1: What do you think so far of this of the
Speaker 1: Democratic team trying to head up the midterms? What if
Speaker 1: you like so far? And what do you think needs improvement?
Speaker 2: Look, I I well, I kind of let me take
Speaker 2: a step back and tell you how I kind of
Speaker 2: view this. I see twenty twenty six and twenty twenty
Speaker 2: eight as a compendium elections.
Speaker 1: Potentially mirror images of six and eight in your head.
Speaker 2: Yes, so two things that are underappreciated and I don't
Speaker 2: see out in the bloodstream. We win in six thirty seats,
Speaker 2: but we use seven to set up eight in the
Speaker 2: main same way that George Mitchell going back to ninety
Speaker 2: one and the government budget forces George Bush to sign
Speaker 2: the tax increase, break his pledge and sets up Bill
Speaker 2: Clinton in ninety two.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: Oh, so two things that I think are really really important.
Speaker 2: I happen to think the Democrats have good candidates out there.
Speaker 2: They have and quality candidates. They've done a good job
Speaker 2: recruit where I'm I think there's an oh, there's a
Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven. Well, let me back up in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six. I still think they need a six and
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six because eighty percent of this is a
Speaker 2: referendum on the Republicans. But you got to put a
Speaker 2: little lipstick here. We're gonna do a minimum wage, we're
Speaker 2: gonna do rate payers bill rights, we're gonna do ethics reform,
Speaker 2: a change election. You know that has a monoicam. Here's
Speaker 2: why we're asking you not just to vote against them again.
Speaker 2: Eighty percent is a vote against them, as you can
Speaker 2: see in all the elections, but twenty percent were safe hands.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty seven is very important to setting up twenty
Speaker 2: twenty eight. In that period, also, we've got three presidentials
Speaker 2: that seven states, six hundred thousand voters, seven hundred thousand
Speaker 2: voters have decided who's president. There should not be an
Speaker 2: empty line from school board to governor in Nevada, Arizona, Georgia,
Speaker 2: North Carolina, Pennsylvan in Michigan, Wisconsin. No line should not
Speaker 2: have a surfer and a surfboard on it. Because I
Speaker 2: think this is going to be a wave election like
Speaker 2: ninety four six, twenty ten, and twenty eighteen, and if
Speaker 2: I'm right, getting into Arizona, throughout the state, that state rep.
Speaker 2: That school board, that county commissioner, that supervisor, all the
Speaker 2: way up true in Nevada, all the way up true
Speaker 2: in Georgia, all the way up from the bottom up.
Speaker 2: You're organizing in twenty twenty six for twenty twenty eight,
Speaker 2: and you're deep, digging deep. Don't show up in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty eight in Georgia two months out and say, well,
Speaker 2: we got beat at this game. Well, the game started
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six. Its started much earlier. But you
Speaker 2: get the point. So that's the two things. And I
Speaker 2: still think I don't mean to leave the Senate out.
Speaker 2: And but you look at this. I you know there's
Speaker 2: a fundamental and I happen to think.
Speaker 1: I think you have to. You have a way, you
Speaker 1: have if the Senate is winnable, and if you don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do think this. This is all the makings
Speaker 2: of a wave election. You can see it in everything
Speaker 2: that we're looking at electorally. And B I think you
Speaker 2: wrote to this. And I'm a big believer the table
Speaker 2: is set by mid spring, not just by cannedy, but
Speaker 2: by issue. And to me, you're gonna buy. I'm saying
Speaker 2: May fifteenth. But in that zone, we're going to know
Speaker 2: more about what's going to happen in May, in November,
Speaker 2: in May than you will in September.
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Speaker 1: The Republicans the one thing they're holding their hat on, right,
Speaker 1: they're hanging their hat on, is that tax season and
Speaker 1: tax refund season is going to make a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of people happy. And I actually think it's going to
Speaker 1: piss them off when they find out all this extra
Speaker 1: money is gone because it went to groceries, the electric
Speaker 1: bill and healthcare.
Speaker 2: No, they do not that basically, Well, I believe in
Speaker 2: the power of prayer. That's a lot of prayer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, let me you know, because this is always
Speaker 1: the tyranny of leading a political party is that.
Speaker 2: You're stupid until election day.
Speaker 1: Well, there's that, but there's no upside in being the
Speaker 1: long term planner, right, It's like you're right, like, hey,
Speaker 1: we've got a plan for twenty thirty two, and yet
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, but if you don't win in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty eight, you're going to get fired, right.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It's like the general manager that goes ahead and trades
Speaker 1: early for your first round draft picks because he knowes
Speaker 1: if he doesn't win, now he's getting fired. He's not
Speaker 1: going to be making that draft pick. Twenty thirty two
Speaker 1: is a sobering moment for the Democratic Party in presidential elections.
Speaker 1: Given what looks like is going to be a dramatic
Speaker 1: shift from the north to the south, with a dramatic
Speaker 1: shift from the coast Electoral college electoral vote standpoint.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, him.
Speaker 1: So I hear your playing about the seven states. You're like, hey,
Speaker 1: and you know, every every single election should be competitive,
Speaker 1: and you know you don't leave any stone unturned. What
Speaker 1: are the next three states that at a minimum right
Speaker 1: now you throw into the bucket, because look, you've got
Speaker 1: to start thinking about you know, I mean when you
Speaker 1: look at the path to fifty one Senate seats for Democrats,
Speaker 1: they have to sweep the battlegrounds just to get to
Speaker 1: fifty two or fifty three, not and not screw up
Speaker 1: Michigan in the primary. That's my point, right, And that's
Speaker 1: just a So here's one. Are the like the next
Speaker 1: states that if you could get rewarded for investing in
Speaker 1: the long term, that you'd be investing in right now?
Speaker 2: Well, there's two states that come quickly to mind, because
Speaker 2: I think something's underappreciated that fascinating to me, not as
Speaker 2: fascinating as energy production or AI, but fascinating from a
Speaker 2: pure political Two former elected Republicans in Florida and in
Speaker 2: Georgia are running in the Democratic primary for governor.
Speaker 1: It is nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I say that's interesting because both, if you
Speaker 2: listen to them, have made a decision that the Republican
Speaker 2: Party is they can't recognize it, and they find more
Speaker 2: affinity in the Democratic parties.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, let's pause there. David Jolly and
Speaker 1: Jeff Duncan are the two guys you're.
Speaker 2: Referring to, butenant governor and a former congress right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, these weren't liberal Republicans when they were elected. They
Speaker 1: were very much Chamber of John became Republicans. Yes, Mitt
Speaker 1: Romney probably more Mett Romney than even John McCain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally agree. They would probably say that, okay, and
Speaker 2: I find as a socio political phenomenon. They looked around
Speaker 2: and maybe both of them said, oh, I can't win
Speaker 2: in the Republican Party. I don't think it was that pragmatic.
Speaker 2: I actually think they looked and they said, I'm not
Speaker 2: a Republican anymore. This is not my party. In the
Speaker 2: same way, same region, a lot of bolt evils, right
Speaker 2: blue dogs, you know, basically woke up one morning, so
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party's not my home anymore and became Republicans.
Speaker 2: Now their traffic is flowing the other way. Now, paus,
Speaker 2: will the party welcome what they get out of here? Yeah,
Speaker 2: and here's here's the.
Speaker 1: Thing that we're going to find out, aren't we.
Speaker 2: Well, we're going to find out two things that's very interesting.
Speaker 2: One is we always say we want to be a
Speaker 2: big ten party. We're going to see you who in
Speaker 2: the party thinks set So there's going to be that.
Speaker 2: And two is I don't think the party, my party
Speaker 2: is fully appreciated that almost fifty percent of the country
Speaker 2: is not in a party. The fastest growing party is unaffiliated.
Speaker 1: Independent voters under thirty five.
Speaker 2: And then second, contrary to popular view that somehow, if
Speaker 2: you use a little smelling salts, the New Deal coalition
Speaker 2: will just pop up out of nowhere again that in fact,
Speaker 2: what Trump showed you is coalitions are forming and shaping
Speaker 2: in real time, and you've got to make a decision.
Speaker 2: In my view, that is what I argued in the
Speaker 2: journal piece. The unaffiliated voters, which are now forty five
Speaker 2: percent and growing, that's your majority. Now you can decide
Speaker 2: to go get that majority and not make it electorally
Speaker 2: transactional but make it transformational, or you can decide not to.
Speaker 2: And I think these guys moving over is a window
Speaker 2: both to the unaffiliated and soft Republicans that we can
Speaker 2: be something bigger. And so I keep my eye Georgia,
Speaker 2: North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida. That's my that was my region.
Speaker 1: There's your extra state that you would throw in, and
Speaker 1: so you'd throw forth.
Speaker 2: Three states to keep your eye on. Are those three
Speaker 2: states for the long for the twenty thirty two and beyond.
Speaker 1: There's this perception that to be a strong Democrat you
Speaker 1: have to be a progressive, that you can't be from
Speaker 1: the center left, you can't be you know, And I think, look,
Speaker 1: I think history shows that Bill Clinton showed you could
Speaker 1: be considered a strong partisan and at the same time
Speaker 1: governed more from the center than from the base. But
Speaker 1: that was not appreciated in real time, no, I think,
Speaker 1: and it arguably took it. I don't know if the
Speaker 1: Democratic Party appreciates that even today. So in fact, I
Speaker 1: just read an interesting little memo that somebody wants to
Speaker 1: circulate and we're asking me to read it, just sort
Speaker 1: of making the case that hey, this milk toast centrism
Speaker 1: is not the answer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you say, Well, you had a big
Speaker 2: primary New Jersey for governor six Hans. Yeah, the mayor Newark,
Speaker 2: very progressive, mayor Jersey, very progressive, president of the Teachers Union,
Speaker 2: largest union of state. Two members of Congress. Two members
Speaker 2: of Congress were on the moderate to conservative wing of
Speaker 2: the party. Their combined vote was forty nine point seven
Speaker 2: and the one that topped out of the five was
Speaker 2: the most conservative of the five. You had an eleven
Speaker 2: candidates for Jerry Connolly c Congressional One out of eleven
Speaker 2: got fifty nine percent, and he was the most moderate
Speaker 2: conservative whatever you want to use of the eleven and
Speaker 2: one's with not thirty but fifty nine percent. You and
Speaker 2: I are sitting here today. Will be very interesting. We
Speaker 2: won't know the answer. Thursday. There's a primary in New
Speaker 2: Jersey for Mikey Michaels, Mikey Cheryl's congressional seat. That is
Speaker 2: a pretty wide spectrum. Lieutenant governor, former member of Congress,
Speaker 2: a supervisor Kenny and a person who found themselves is
Speaker 2: kind of like AOC. So we'll see. I don't think
Speaker 2: I think there's a bigger moderate wing of the party,
Speaker 2: and there's a bigger pragmatic wing. Now, one thing that
Speaker 2: we know from presidential history Clinton, John Carey, Joe Biden
Speaker 2: that ultimately, when the parties walk backs against the wall,
Speaker 2: they go pragmatic, not ideological. Right winning will be more
Speaker 2: important than any particular thing that's right.
Speaker 1: Well, that's been my I've made two points about like
Speaker 1: people always ask me, you knows who's the front runner,
Speaker 1: and I always say I flipped the script, and I
Speaker 1: always say, you know, at this point in time, nobody
Speaker 1: was talking about Bill Clinton in nineteen ninety, at this point.
Speaker 2: In time, No, no, you were talking No, no, no,
Speaker 2: worse than that. At this point in time, mario'comell, Bill Bradley. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Bill Clinton was at two percent.
Speaker 1: And it was right. He wasn't even he wasn't even
Speaker 1: really being he wasn't high enough to even be talked
Speaker 1: about as a dark horse.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: By the way, Jimmy Carter, same thing. I'll give you
Speaker 1: another one that I like to remind people of just recently,
Speaker 1: if I told you at this point in time in
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty cycle, which would be February of twenty eighteen, Hey,
Speaker 1: rom you know who's going to be one of the
Speaker 1: finalists for the Democratic nomination for president. It's going to
Speaker 1: be the mayor of South Bend. You know, the guy
Speaker 1: that just and you would say, you mean the guy
Speaker 1: that lost DNC chair and I'll be like, yeah, that guy.
Speaker 1: So it tells you the Democratic Party always is looking
Speaker 1: for what I always say is two things new and
Speaker 1: somebody who you know, isn't that who hasn't been sort
Speaker 1: of in their face for the.
Speaker 2: Last five Well, let me say this. The worst place
Speaker 2: to be in the Democratic Party is front runner three
Speaker 2: years out. Oh I know.
Speaker 1: I joke about that with Gavin You're like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: you win the first year and ask Kellry Clayton what
Speaker 1: that's like. And she was the front runner O five exactly.
Speaker 1: You know, al Gore was the front runner and oh one.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But I do think one thing that's very clear,
Speaker 2: and I say this is look as I value make
Speaker 2: my view. Yeah, twenty twenty eight and for the country
Speaker 2: and for the party will be the first primary election
Speaker 2: and general election in which the future will be on
Speaker 2: the ballot.
Speaker 1: You know, we've done that. You could argue that it's
Speaker 1: funny we do this every twenty years. It's funny how
Speaker 1: it's worked out that way. Sixty eight wasn't open. Eighty
Speaker 1: eight wasn't open. Eight wasn't open, twenty eight is an open.
Speaker 1: It's just interesting how it's just fallen that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think we've had making America great again,
Speaker 2: build back better. You know, while they're different in many
Speaker 2: many policyways, spiritually they emanate that they look through the
Speaker 2: rear view mirror with this hazy nostalgic sense rather than
Speaker 2: look to the future and say here's what we're going
Speaker 2: to do right. You know, it's of a product at
Speaker 2: Bill Clinton's don't stop thinking about tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Or building a bridge to the twenty first century. It's
Speaker 1: one of my favorite Like with I made the joke
Speaker 1: you tell me fill in the gaps here. But I
Speaker 1: believe Bill Clinton hadn't figured out what his accepted speech
Speaker 1: theme was going to be. Bob Dole gave his Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's like, huh. When he wanted to build a
Speaker 1: bridge to the fifties or whatever it was, it was
Speaker 1: a bridge to the past.
Speaker 2: Very nostalgic. It was a nostalgic speech.
Speaker 1: And literally, aha, I mean it was sort of that
Speaker 1: suddenly gave it gave Clinton an idea, right.
Speaker 2: You know, it allowed him not only to be future,
Speaker 2: but also continue to be changed while you were running
Speaker 2: as the incumbent.
Speaker 1: Right, how did we end up? You know, it's funny
Speaker 1: the rules of politics that I grew up with. Right,
Speaker 1: you know, whether it was well the candidates to talk
Speaker 1: about the future when candidates that talk about the past lose.
Speaker 1: Yet we had three straight presidents, right, Trump twice and
Speaker 1: Biden once who won by talking about the past.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean each election is each election is slightly different.
Speaker 2: But may take a look at Joe Biden's twenty twenty
Speaker 2: This is my take. His the past wasn't so much
Speaker 2: the factory or this. It was a time in which
Speaker 2: it was more comedy than conflict. Yeah, if you asked
Speaker 2: me where he broke faith with the public, wasn't Yes,
Speaker 2: he made an implied to pledge. She never disabused the public.
Speaker 2: I'm not running again at twenty twenty four, then broke it.
Speaker 2: But I think the bigger pledge he broke with the
Speaker 2: public my observation, and I still think he'll man. He's
Speaker 2: a friend and I think he I have a different
Speaker 2: view over the presidency. But his bigger break was he
Speaker 2: said I'm going to bring more comedy and he ended
Speaker 2: up trying to unite the party, not the country. And
Speaker 2: I think that's where he gets off the rails. I
Speaker 2: think if you ask me why the party, why the
Speaker 2: country wanted some of this kind of nostalgic was and
Speaker 2: this is something I've been working through. When you look,
Speaker 2: we've had our political difference, as partisanship is not due
Speaker 2: new to American politics. Fighting hard is not new to America.
Speaker 2: But there was a kind of a boundary sense.
Speaker 1: We were exhausted, we did want to reset.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and this is a U and I you know, look,
Speaker 2: you got three more years of Donald Trump. So the
Speaker 2: question is, and I think this will be is what
Speaker 2: I'm betting on, is the country's going to look at
Speaker 2: this and say, Okay, the puck will be not to
Speaker 2: have a democratic version of Donald Trump. The puck is
Speaker 2: going to be how do we Yeah, And I think
Speaker 2: that's actually what's you know, one of the things I've
Speaker 2: talked about is the party should be post Minneapolis. I
Speaker 2: know this will come. Yes, there's an ice component, there's
Speaker 2: an immigration component. There's actually I think all the people
Speaker 2: in Minneapolis showed their true citizenship. There is working not
Speaker 2: to democracy, but also I have an obligation to my neighbor.
Speaker 2: I have an obligation to the person down the road.
Speaker 2: And I believe the answer to the future is national service,
Speaker 2: reigniting that sense of bonds. Not your diversity, not your differences,
Speaker 2: but your commonality. And I think the country's doesn't desperate form,
Speaker 2: which is why going back to five. But as recently
Speaker 2: as last year, for the paper The Washington Post wrote
Speaker 2: about the need for national service. I am the last
Speaker 2: six months of high school should be mandatory. Six months
Speaker 2: clean a river, work alongside kids you never met, tutor,
Speaker 2: do a series of things because guess what, Being an
Speaker 2: American is a gift. Yeah, and you need to reach
Speaker 2: I treat that gift with care.
Speaker 1: It's the single best idea Clinton had in the nineties,
Speaker 1: and I'm sorry it never I believe the Right killed
Speaker 1: it because they thought it was gonna.
Speaker 2: Well, he did the Americ Corps. Two things.
Speaker 1: He got AmeriCorps, but the right.
Speaker 2: I'll give you a great anecdote, so he gets Americrps,
Speaker 2: doesn't get as big as he wants, compromises, et cetera.
Speaker 2: John McCain and Lindsey Graham come to Chicago in the
Speaker 2: Obama transition. One of the things that and we have
Speaker 2: a meeting there President elect Obama, Senator McCain, Senator Lindsey Graham,
Speaker 2: and uh and myself. There's a commitment that is, we're
Speaker 2: dealing with the auto industry and we're dealing with the
Speaker 2: financial you know, we will do a rewrite of both
Speaker 2: America or National Service and Peace Corps. And if you
Speaker 2: get past Lily Ledbetter that showse helf, the recovery, the
Speaker 2: budget team they and obviously Kennedy's ill. So there's an interest.
Speaker 2: There's a bigger moment to fulfill the pledge that the
Speaker 2: president of like Obama, and they chok on it, and
Speaker 2: that becomes in the spring of nine, the President signs
Speaker 2: into along with pass and a significant expansion of both
Speaker 2: AmeriCorps and the Peace Corps National Service legislation. But if
Speaker 2: you go back to Clinton, it was cut down. You know,
Speaker 2: those were the days it was coming out of seriously things.
Speaker 2: But he's still got amer Corps done. Yeah, not as
Speaker 2: big as he wanted.
Speaker 1: I got two more questions, he said, two more topics
Speaker 1: for you than I a chatting here.
Speaker 2: Yeah one is and sniffling, but I got a head, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: I get it. I get it. Yeah, one is are
Speaker 1: we at a I think we're at a moment. We
Speaker 1: had the robber barons one hundred years ago, we have
Speaker 1: the tech titans of today. I think the anger at
Speaker 1: rich people I am, I am, I joke all the time.
Speaker 1: The pitchforks are being sharpened, and there are pitchforks in
Speaker 1: both parties right for different reasons, and they're coming.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: What does this look like in a in in an
Speaker 1: A Ram administration? What do you what is true? And
Speaker 1: do we need a trust busting moment? And can you
Speaker 1: run against billionaires without coming across is against.
Speaker 2: You know, making money? Well, here's the thing. I actually
Speaker 2: think one of the big problems facing the country is
Speaker 2: that our entire tax code is is now focused on
Speaker 2: wealth preservation, not wealth creation. When you really rip, take
Speaker 2: Mitt Rombie and he writes this up ed tax me more.
Speaker 2: But when you take each of the pieces and components
Speaker 2: that he talks about the whole, I don't mean to
Speaker 2: get technical, step up. It's about preserving wealth and it's
Speaker 2: not about creating wealth. It's not passing out to other generations.
Speaker 2: You never passed Bay taxes. This is insane. Now he
Speaker 2: does it from a fiscal perspective. I would take it
Speaker 2: from an investment perspective into future generations. And I'm based
Speaker 2: on my friendship with former Sena Ronnie Romney Mitt. I
Speaker 2: don't think you would disagree with a number of things
Speaker 2: that'd be more consensus on what the things you should
Speaker 2: Festine put that aside. Look like that when I said,
Speaker 2: first person to say in either party sixteen and younger,
Speaker 2: no more social media apps. Protect the kids. And I've
Speaker 2: never met a parent in all my walkings around the country.
Speaker 2: My kid needs more time on the screen. I've never
Speaker 2: met that parent.
Speaker 1: Okay exactly.
Speaker 2: They feel that these guys have taken their kids away
Speaker 2: from them and raising them on an algorithm that's addictive,
Speaker 2: and there's as much anger at that as much as
Speaker 2: nobody has told these people bosto, take your hands off
Speaker 2: my kids. So there's a wealth piece, there's a power piece,
Speaker 2: and they feel like the government's role and we've been
Speaker 2: the government has been a woe is to basically equal
Speaker 2: this out when it gets out as kilter the era
Speaker 2: you're talking about, whether that's the railroad barons, the conglomerate barons,
Speaker 2: or going into as Roosevelt Franklin Roosevelt. The scales are tempted,
Speaker 2: where heads eye win and tails you lose.
Speaker 1: Well, I thought, I thought Bernie Sanders made an interesting
Speaker 1: point the other day about the interest in the Epstein files.
Speaker 1: That look, the point he made fits his long term messaging.
Speaker 1: So you know, God bless Bernie. It's always about the
Speaker 1: billionaires and the millionaires. But I do think he made
Speaker 1: this observation, which he says, the interest in the Epstein
Speaker 1: files beyond the conspiracy theorist, is because people are tired
Speaker 1: of these rich guys play their own set of rules. Yes,
Speaker 1: and I think he's right.
Speaker 2: No, No, there's no doubt. I mean, look, that was
Speaker 2: part of you know, my view when I advocated for
Speaker 2: Old Testament justice to the bankers. Right, basically, here you are,
Speaker 2: your home is everything to you. You get liar loans,
Speaker 2: you lose your home. And these rich punks are talking
Speaker 2: about their bonuses and not one of them ever paid
Speaker 2: a thing of accountability legally, professionally, and they walk around
Speaker 2: like it was you know, that was the financial trade.
Speaker 1: Do you see what's happening? These crypto guys basically said, well,
Speaker 1: screw the Democrats, We're just going to go buy off
Speaker 1: the Republicans and they have.
Speaker 2: Want to just be clear, every decision the Court's ever
Speaker 2: made on politics, whether it's money, silver Voting Rights Act,
Speaker 2: et cetera, they've made the democracy harder and concentrated around
Speaker 2: wealth Supreme Court. Every one of their decisions around politics
Speaker 2: is has made this system worse.
Speaker 1: What do you make of Jeff bay Us and what
Speaker 1: he's doing?
Speaker 2: What do you mean at Washington Post? Yeah? I think
Speaker 2: look for a guy that's I mean not my money,
Speaker 2: but in the last year your net worth has increased,
Speaker 2: I mean billions zeros that people will never see. The
Speaker 2: Washington Post is not a profit. It's a institution that
Speaker 2: serves the public good. You're lucky to be the steward
Speaker 2: of it. There's not charity from you. This is a
Speaker 2: contribution to our democracy.
Speaker 1: And I think he's like twenty thirteen, Jeff Bezos seemed
Speaker 1: to believe that. Look then he bought it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't know whether he
Speaker 2: did it a proper analysis to realize newspapers breaking news
Speaker 2: live at ten don't make money out right, Okay, so
Speaker 2: your job here is not to lose money. But don't
Speaker 2: kidd me. You knew what you were doing when you
Speaker 2: got in. It's actually a public it's almost like an endowment.
Speaker 2: It's a public interest. So I'm not for it. And
Speaker 2: the notion that it's not like you're struggling. You don't
Speaker 2: know anything about the snack program from food benefits, et cetera.
Speaker 2: The idea that given that you have just made off
Speaker 2: the stock market billions, and I'm not saying that losing
Speaker 2: one hundred million is easy, but it doesn't change. There's
Speaker 2: not one vacation, one outfit, or one holiday that you
Speaker 2: have to cancel because of the washing Post. Nothing in
Speaker 2: your standard of living has changed.
Speaker 1: And by the way, I would argue that, hey, you
Speaker 1: can figure out how to lose less even make a
Speaker 1: couple of bucks if you have better, more innovative leadership,
Speaker 1: and he had terrible leadership being Jewish and being a Democrat.
Speaker 1: You know, one of the things I've said is, look,
Speaker 1: before Donald Trump came down the escalator, I never felt
Speaker 1: as if my Jewish identity would come first as far
Speaker 1: as how people judged my work. After he came down
Speaker 1: that escalator, that suddenly was interesting to me, how that
Speaker 1: it was the first time I'd ever experienced any sort
Speaker 1: of anti semitism, and I joke that when I hear
Speaker 1: the word populism, now it doesn't matter if I hear
Speaker 1: it on the left or the right. I know the
Speaker 1: next words out of their mouth is going to be
Speaker 1: something attacking Jews. How welcoming do you think a Jewish
Speaker 1: candidate for president? How welcome do you think a Jewish
Speaker 1: candidate for president is going to be? In a Democratic primer?
Speaker 2: Well one is, don't worry about my faith. Worry about
Speaker 2: the faith America people of America have in America. That's
Speaker 2: what's hurting. I'm good with my faith. My Rabi thinks
Speaker 2: I could do better. I say that tongue in cheap
Speaker 2: is here, and do I live by the Jewish moral
Speaker 2: code as best as I can, as best of the
Speaker 2: teaching of the Jews, and it's the work of progress.
Speaker 2: My faith is not Your concern is the fact that
Speaker 2: the whole generation of Americans have lost faith in America.
Speaker 2: I think America's lost faith in them. That's what we
Speaker 2: should be worried about. Second, since you like politics and
Speaker 2: love politics, I got elected in the congressional district that
Speaker 2: Dan ross and Kowski, Roman Pucinski, Franken Nunzio, Rob Bgoyrevitch,
Speaker 2: Mike Flanagan and Alllong comes from Israel, Emanuel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, not a single bunch of Catholics.
Speaker 2: Huh yeah, European Catholics, Okay, Right in Chicago after a
Speaker 2: long run of Irish Catholics and other type of ethnic
Speaker 2: helmy city, that's only two to three percent the city
Speaker 2: that my grandfather came to when he was fifteen, one
Speaker 2: hundred years earlier. His grandson gets elected. So I've seen
Speaker 2: the other side of this now that is separate a
Speaker 2: faith issue from Israel, which is a different diferent issue.
Speaker 1: Well, it's completely conflated.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: My frustration is, you know, it can be pro Israel
Speaker 1: and critical of Bibi. Can't you accept that.
Speaker 2: Chuck, there's one person in the Democratic Party but bb
Speaker 2: Netan now who in two thousand and nine, because of
Speaker 2: his difference on housing in the West Bank, called a
Speaker 2: self hating Jew and you're looking at Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: He writes it in his book, You're an Axel Rod.
Speaker 1: Right then he say David's Rod and Ram a bunch
Speaker 1: of self hating Jews.
Speaker 2: Yeah that yeah, Ram Israel Emanuel self hating Jew maybe,
Speaker 2: And I didn't need a war to realize this guy
Speaker 2: was wrong, that he was leading Israel into the wrong place.
Speaker 2: He's not a real scientist when it comes to the
Speaker 2: tradition of what it believes to be a nation of nations.
Speaker 2: That's what Bengorian says. He's walked away from the vision
Speaker 2: of what it is. He has been turned his back
Speaker 2: on the spirit of Zionism. And to me, my faith
Speaker 2: is me and my God and my Rabbi. It's the
Speaker 2: faith people have in America that we should be focused
Speaker 2: on as it relates to Israel. Before everybody else said,
Speaker 2: oh my god, look what this guy's doing twenty years ago,
Speaker 2: I told him, and I didn't say it behind his back.
Speaker 2: I said it to his face in the Oval office.
Speaker 1: Right because the assumption was you might have more credibility
Speaker 1: with him right now.
Speaker 2: Let me also say, Obama had to separate us. That's
Speaker 2: how I got and I said, what you're doing on
Speaker 2: housing in the West Bank is going to destroy and
Speaker 2: isolate Israel as Peru.
Speaker 1: Well enough, here we are, and.
Speaker 2: Chuck, Israel's never been more strategically secure and more politically
Speaker 2: internationally isolated. Welcome to Beebie's world, mister Sparta. That's what
Speaker 2: he wanted and that's what he's getting, but the Israeli
Speaker 2: public will not support it. And what he's done in
Speaker 2: all the regions in the last two years has made
Speaker 2: Israel more vulnerable than it was before.
Speaker 1: How much of a litmus test do you think this
Speaker 1: should be and will be for Democrats?
Speaker 2: You can't have a war like this, etc. That it
Speaker 2: should be debated and should be. A president is going
Speaker 2: to do something with China that's going to actually benefit
Speaker 2: him and endanger America as should be sending chips to
Speaker 2: UAE so your family can make money. All of this
Speaker 2: should be on the table, because if you can't handle
Speaker 2: the national street, you can't handle that job.
Speaker 1: How much of Israel's politics I joke about this is Israel.
Speaker 1: Israel's politics is as polarized as ours is. Right, here's
Speaker 1: they have an unpopular person who keeps becoming their leader.
Speaker 1: This is what right? Are is Israel our past or
Speaker 1: our future? Did we export polarization at are we starting
Speaker 1: to emulate that this is this?
Speaker 2: This is like a whole nother show. But I will say, no,
Speaker 2: you have a it's really it's not our future. And
Speaker 2: I meant what I said earlier. I think the Supreme Court,
Speaker 2: not the lower courts. Supreme Courts under Roberts has failed.
Speaker 2: I think the Republicans in Congress have failed. I think
Speaker 2: the corporate titans in their silence when they know under
Speaker 2: their breath it has failed. The thin blue line that
Speaker 2: will protect this country are the American people. And it's
Speaker 2: why Donald Trump is going to do everything between now
Speaker 2: an election day to make sure they're not hurt, because
Speaker 2: they will actually return the country to its proper balance.
Speaker 1: So you're putting on the you're putting on whether Israel's
Speaker 1: are past or our future?
Speaker 2: Right on punters, Damn right, that's a because I can't
Speaker 2: give that answer without it being like twenty more questions.
Speaker 1: No, it's a it's a fair point. Yeah, if Democrats
Speaker 1: fail to win the mid terms, what is that? You know?
Speaker 1: How does that take your book? Or you just don't
Speaker 1: see it.
Speaker 2: There's one pat when you have one party controlled the
Speaker 2: microphone and the gabble, there's a law of physics, massive turnout,
Speaker 2: but the party out of power. Every election, all thirty
Speaker 2: of them plus have shown that two independence break two
Speaker 2: to one for the party out of power. Every election
Speaker 2: has shown that three low turnout by the incumbent party voters.
Speaker 2: Every election has shown that this is set up. I
Speaker 2: still hold by what I said, so I haven't taked
Speaker 2: my position. In twenty minutes. We are going to know
Speaker 2: the future by May fifteenth.
Speaker 1: I think you're right from Emmanue, it's always a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thanks always make me think too.
Speaker 2: We'll come back. We'll come back. On America mirror images
Speaker 2: of each other.
Speaker 1: Well, there's a whole documentary to do on that.
Speaker 2: Now. It's it's uh and I do think one last
Speaker 2: thing I'll say, and then I gotta you gotta get
Speaker 2: get better. But yeah, it's a headquarter. Our job is
Speaker 2: to restore the faith of the American people in America.
Speaker 2: My faith is good. I have to work on it
Speaker 2: like everybody else has to do on there. It's restored
Speaker 2: if you run for the big higher office. It's restoring
Speaker 2: that faith. That is the most important task out of us.
Speaker 1: You know. That's that's a that's a good pivot that
Speaker 1: makes because you're right, a lot of people have los
Speaker 1: are losing faith in the idea of America. And it's
Speaker 1: not just us. A lot of our allies feel that way.
Speaker 2: Yes, all right, brother as always seem mm hmmmmm.