WEBVTT - Judging Sam: Guilty on all counts

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin. This is judging Sam the trial of Sam Bankman Freed.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Jacob Goldstein sitting in for Michael Lewis, and the

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<v Speaker 1>trial of Sam Bankman Freed is over. It's just before

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<v Speaker 1>nine pm on November two, and Sam Bankman Freed has

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<v Speaker 1>been found guilty on all counts. Lydia Jean, you were

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<v Speaker 1>in the courtroom. Tell us what happened.

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<v Speaker 2>So, you know, we were all in the courtroom for

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<v Speaker 2>hours waiting for the verdict, and honestly, we weren't expecting

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<v Speaker 2>a verdict at that point because they hadn't been deliberating

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<v Speaker 2>very long.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it could take days, right, It's not unusual

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<v Speaker 1>for truest right for days.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. It was more chaotic in the courtroom than it

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<v Speaker 2>ever had been before. It kind of felt like there

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<v Speaker 2>were no rules. And there was a point in the

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<v Speaker 2>evening where I was in the front row and then

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<v Speaker 2>Sam Bankman Freed actually came in with his lawyers and

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<v Speaker 2>when he walked into the courtroom, he was really he

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<v Speaker 2>was looking around at all their reporters, and since I

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<v Speaker 2>was in the front row, we actually even made eye

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<v Speaker 2>contact for a few seconds. It felt and honestly, it

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<v Speaker 2>felt like too much and at that point A Marshall

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<v Speaker 2>came up to me and told me I had to

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<v Speaker 2>move out of the first row, which felt like a

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<v Speaker 2>bit of a relief. It was almost too intense to

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<v Speaker 2>be so close.

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<v Speaker 1>And what did he seem like just the.

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<v Speaker 2>Entire day today? He just seemed really interested to be

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<v Speaker 2>looking at everyone who was in the courtroom. I noticed

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<v Speaker 2>also he was looking at the jurors pretty intently as well.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it just kind of seemed like he

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<v Speaker 2>just wanted to see us.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh huh, So okay, so you're there. It's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>weird you're kind of hanging out with SBF in this

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<v Speaker 1>very fraud moment. What happens next?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, then at seven point forty it was announced that

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<v Speaker 2>there was a verdict, and shortly after Sam bankman Fried's

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<v Speaker 2>parents came back into the courtroom. It kind of looked

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<v Speaker 2>like Sam's dad was kind of holding up Sam's mom

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit, and we were all instructed to not

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<v Speaker 2>make any noise or react in any way when the

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<v Speaker 2>verdict was read out loud, and then the jury came

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<v Speaker 2>in and I noticed that the jury wasn't looking at

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<v Speaker 2>the judge and the jury wasn't looking at Sam Kminfred either.

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<v Speaker 2>They were kind of just looking straight ahead to their seats. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>the four person was during number four. She was wearing

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<v Speaker 2>a blue shirt and she passed the verdict to the deputy.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just a piece of paper, basically.

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<v Speaker 2>It was just a piece of paper. The counts were

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<v Speaker 2>read by the deputy. They went through each count and

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<v Speaker 2>for each count she said he was guilty, so it

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<v Speaker 2>was seven guilties. And at that point I noticed that

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<v Speaker 2>Sam's dad's head was totally down. He was kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like holding his head in his hands, and it looked

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<v Speaker 2>like Sam's mom was kind of breasting her hand on

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<v Speaker 2>his back. And you know, Sam was standing when they

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<v Speaker 2>were read going through all the charges, and there was

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<v Speaker 2>like an awkward moment where it was like he wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>sure whether they were done, whether he could sit down,

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<v Speaker 2>or whether he should keep standing. And then he sat down.

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<v Speaker 1>Did he show any emotion or any response.

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<v Speaker 2>I could only see the back of his head, but

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<v Speaker 2>I was looking really closely, and it seemed like he

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<v Speaker 2>was still doing that thing where he's like just shittering

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<v Speaker 2>a tiny, tiny bit. And you know, at the end,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, after all the proceedings were done, there's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like a low separation between, you know, the where

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<v Speaker 2>the people who are involved in the court proceedings are

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<v Speaker 2>and the audience, like a little barrier and say Makemonfried's

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<v Speaker 2>parents came up to the barrier like they often do

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of try and say hi to him, and

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<v Speaker 2>I noticed that he was talking to his lawyers and

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<v Speaker 2>he wasn't turning around, which to me kind of made

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<v Speaker 2>sense because there was a whole gaggle all of us

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<v Speaker 2>were just waiting for him to turn around to see

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<v Speaker 2>his face. He wouldn't do it. And Sam's parents also

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<v Speaker 2>were right at the barrier waiting for him to turn around,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were kind of like holding each other up

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit. And then he was escorted out of

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<v Speaker 2>the courtroom by his lawyers, and right when he was

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<v Speaker 2>at the door, he turned around really quickly just to

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<v Speaker 2>look at his mom, and at that moment, she kind

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<v Speaker 2>of fell forward a little bit, and then she picked herself.

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<v Speaker 1>Up and Sam went out the door.

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<v Speaker 2>And Sam went out the door.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll be back in just a minute. So what happens next?

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<v Speaker 2>So Sam Bakmanfried actually has a second trial that's now

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<v Speaker 2>scheduled for March eleventh, because as you may remember, there

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<v Speaker 2>are a few other charges that weren't part of this trial.

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<v Speaker 2>So that trial got scheduled today and it's supposed to

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<v Speaker 2>be in March eleventh, though it could still knock go forward,

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<v Speaker 2>right the judge said to let him know that February first,

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<v Speaker 2>if the prosecution wants to proceed with that trial, And.

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<v Speaker 1>What about sentencing for these charges on which he was

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<v Speaker 1>convicted Today.

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<v Speaker 2>They set a date for the sentencing, which is March

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<v Speaker 2>twenty eighth at nine thirty, but that could also, of

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<v Speaker 2>course change.

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<v Speaker 1>March twenty eighth, so months and months.

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<v Speaker 2>Away, months and months away.

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<v Speaker 1>Why why such a long gap between when he's convicted

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<v Speaker 1>and when he's sentenced.

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<v Speaker 2>There's usually a long gap between conviction and sentencing. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a complicated process, the way that the judge gets a

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<v Speaker 2>recommended sentence based on a lot of complicated math and

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<v Speaker 2>legal analysis.

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<v Speaker 1>And Lida Gien, you've been to every day of the trial.

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<v Speaker 1>You were there a few feet away from Sam just

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<v Speaker 1>now essentially when he was convicted. What do you make

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<v Speaker 1>of things right now? Like, what are you taking away

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<v Speaker 1>from this?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it was interesting, I would say, every day

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<v Speaker 2>and moment of the trial was full of chatter. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's all journalists. We're people who love to talk, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's kind of been NonStop conversation. After the verdict, we

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<v Speaker 2>were all in the elevator and it was so quiet.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we're on the twenty sixth floor. It's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a long ride, and no one really said much

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<v Speaker 2>of anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it suddenly feels more grave. Right on a certain level,

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<v Speaker 1>it was easy to be glib about the case. The

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<v Speaker 1>victims were sort of hazy, and Sam was like an

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<v Speaker 1>interesting figure, a sort of celebrity adjacent. But then suddenly,

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<v Speaker 1>like the guilty verdict kind of snaps things into a

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<v Speaker 1>different kind of focus. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I talked to a reporter earlier who said, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the moment when the verdict comes, that's when it becomes real.

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<v Speaker 2>He said that that's when it becomes real to the defendant,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, maybe that's true, but it definitely felt

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<v Speaker 2>like in that moment that's also when it kind of

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<v Speaker 2>became real to us. It makes the whole story just

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<v Speaker 2>feel you know, there's real consequences and there's so many

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<v Speaker 2>people who've been hurt in so many different ways in

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<v Speaker 2>this story.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Lydia Jean, it was great to talk with you.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks very much.

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<v Speaker 2>It was great to talk to you too.

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<v Speaker 3>As always, Jacob, We'll be back in your feed next

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<v Speaker 3>week with more expert analysis from Sam bankman Fried's trial.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks for listening. This episode of Judging Sam was hosted

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<v Speaker 3>by Jacob Goldstein, Lydia Jean Caught as our court reporter.

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<v Speaker 3>Catherine Gerardau and Nisha Venken produced this show. Sophie Crane

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<v Speaker 3>is our editor. Our music was composed by Matthias Bossi

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<v Speaker 3>and John Evans of stell Wagon's Symphonette. Judging Sam is

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<v Speaker 3>a production of Pushkin Industries. Got a question or comment

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<v Speaker 3>for me, There's a website for that atr podcast dot com.

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