Speaker 1: Pushkin. This is judging Sam the trial of Sam Bankman Freed.
Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Goldstein sitting in for Michael Lewis, and the
Speaker 1: trial of Sam Bankman Freed is over. It's just before
Speaker 1: nine pm on November two, and Sam Bankman Freed has
Speaker 1: been found guilty on all counts. Lydia Jean, you were
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. Tell us what happened.
Speaker 2: So, you know, we were all in the courtroom for
Speaker 2: hours waiting for the verdict, and honestly, we weren't expecting
Speaker 2: a verdict at that point because they hadn't been deliberating
Speaker 2: very long.
Speaker 1: I mean it could take days, right, It's not unusual
Speaker 1: for truest right for days.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was more chaotic in the courtroom than it
Speaker 2: ever had been before. It kind of felt like there
Speaker 2: were no rules. And there was a point in the
Speaker 2: evening where I was in the front row and then
Speaker 2: Sam Bankman Freed actually came in with his lawyers and
Speaker 2: when he walked into the courtroom, he was really he
Speaker 2: was looking around at all their reporters, and since I
Speaker 2: was in the front row, we actually even made eye
Speaker 2: contact for a few seconds. It felt and honestly, it
Speaker 2: felt like too much and at that point A Marshall
Speaker 2: came up to me and told me I had to
Speaker 2: move out of the first row, which felt like a
Speaker 2: bit of a relief. It was almost too intense to
Speaker 2: be so close.
Speaker 1: And what did he seem like just the.
Speaker 2: Entire day today? He just seemed really interested to be
Speaker 2: looking at everyone who was in the courtroom. I noticed
Speaker 2: also he was looking at the jurors pretty intently as well.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it just kind of seemed like he
Speaker 2: just wanted to see us.
Speaker 1: Uh huh, So okay, so you're there. It's kind of
Speaker 1: weird you're kind of hanging out with SBF in this
Speaker 1: very fraud moment. What happens next?
Speaker 2: Well, then at seven point forty it was announced that
Speaker 2: there was a verdict, and shortly after Sam bankman Fried's
Speaker 2: parents came back into the courtroom. It kind of looked
Speaker 2: like Sam's dad was kind of holding up Sam's mom
Speaker 2: a little bit, and we were all instructed to not
Speaker 2: make any noise or react in any way when the
Speaker 2: verdict was read out loud, and then the jury came
Speaker 2: in and I noticed that the jury wasn't looking at
Speaker 2: the judge and the jury wasn't looking at Sam Kminfred either.
Speaker 2: They were kind of just looking straight ahead to their seats. Okay,
Speaker 2: the four person was during number four. She was wearing
Speaker 2: a blue shirt and she passed the verdict to the deputy.
Speaker 1: It's just a piece of paper, basically.
Speaker 2: It was just a piece of paper. The counts were
Speaker 2: read by the deputy. They went through each count and
Speaker 2: for each count she said he was guilty, so it
Speaker 2: was seven guilties. And at that point I noticed that
Speaker 2: Sam's dad's head was totally down. He was kind of
Speaker 2: like holding his head in his hands, and it looked
Speaker 2: like Sam's mom was kind of breasting her hand on
Speaker 2: his back. And you know, Sam was standing when they
Speaker 2: were read going through all the charges, and there was
Speaker 2: like an awkward moment where it was like he wasn't
Speaker 2: sure whether they were done, whether he could sit down,
Speaker 2: or whether he should keep standing. And then he sat down.
Speaker 1: Did he show any emotion or any response.
Speaker 2: I could only see the back of his head, but
Speaker 2: I was looking really closely, and it seemed like he
Speaker 2: was still doing that thing where he's like just shittering
Speaker 2: a tiny, tiny bit. And you know, at the end,
Speaker 2: you know, after all the proceedings were done, there's kind
Speaker 2: of like a low separation between, you know, the where
Speaker 2: the people who are involved in the court proceedings are
Speaker 2: and the audience, like a little barrier and say Makemonfried's
Speaker 2: parents came up to the barrier like they often do
Speaker 2: to kind of try and say hi to him, and
Speaker 2: I noticed that he was talking to his lawyers and
Speaker 2: he wasn't turning around, which to me kind of made
Speaker 2: sense because there was a whole gaggle all of us
Speaker 2: were just waiting for him to turn around to see
Speaker 2: his face. He wouldn't do it. And Sam's parents also
Speaker 2: were right at the barrier waiting for him to turn around,
Speaker 2: and they were kind of like holding each other up
Speaker 2: a little bit. And then he was escorted out of
Speaker 2: the courtroom by his lawyers, and right when he was
Speaker 2: at the door, he turned around really quickly just to
Speaker 2: look at his mom, and at that moment, she kind
Speaker 2: of fell forward a little bit, and then she picked herself.
Speaker 1: Up and Sam went out the door.
Speaker 2: And Sam went out the door.
Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute. So what happens next?
Speaker 2: So Sam Bakmanfried actually has a second trial that's now
Speaker 2: scheduled for March eleventh, because as you may remember, there
Speaker 2: are a few other charges that weren't part of this trial.
Speaker 2: So that trial got scheduled today and it's supposed to
Speaker 2: be in March eleventh, though it could still knock go forward,
Speaker 2: right the judge said to let him know that February first,
Speaker 2: if the prosecution wants to proceed with that trial, And.
Speaker 1: What about sentencing for these charges on which he was
Speaker 1: convicted Today.
Speaker 2: They set a date for the sentencing, which is March
Speaker 2: twenty eighth at nine thirty, but that could also, of
Speaker 2: course change.
Speaker 1: March twenty eighth, so months and months.
Speaker 2: Away, months and months away.
Speaker 1: Why why such a long gap between when he's convicted
Speaker 1: and when he's sentenced.
Speaker 2: There's usually a long gap between conviction and sentencing. It's
Speaker 2: a complicated process, the way that the judge gets a
Speaker 2: recommended sentence based on a lot of complicated math and
Speaker 2: legal analysis.
Speaker 1: And Lida Gien, you've been to every day of the trial.
Speaker 1: You were there a few feet away from Sam just
Speaker 1: now essentially when he was convicted. What do you make
Speaker 1: of things right now? Like, what are you taking away
Speaker 1: from this?
Speaker 2: You know, it was interesting, I would say, every day
Speaker 2: and moment of the trial was full of chatter. You know,
Speaker 2: it's all journalists. We're people who love to talk, and
Speaker 2: it's kind of been NonStop conversation. After the verdict, we
Speaker 2: were all in the elevator and it was so quiet.
Speaker 2: You know, we're on the twenty sixth floor. It's kind
Speaker 2: of a long ride, and no one really said much
Speaker 2: of anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it suddenly feels more grave. Right on a certain level,
Speaker 1: it was easy to be glib about the case. The
Speaker 1: victims were sort of hazy, and Sam was like an
Speaker 1: interesting figure, a sort of celebrity adjacent. But then suddenly,
Speaker 1: like the guilty verdict kind of snaps things into a
Speaker 1: different kind of focus. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I talked to a reporter earlier who said, you know,
Speaker 2: the moment when the verdict comes, that's when it becomes real.
Speaker 2: He said that that's when it becomes real to the defendant,
Speaker 2: and you know, maybe that's true, but it definitely felt
Speaker 2: like in that moment that's also when it kind of
Speaker 2: became real to us. It makes the whole story just
Speaker 2: feel you know, there's real consequences and there's so many
Speaker 2: people who've been hurt in so many different ways in
Speaker 2: this story.
Speaker 1: Okay, Lydia Jean, it was great to talk with you.
Speaker 1: Thanks very much.
Speaker 2: It was great to talk to you too.
Speaker 3: As always, Jacob, We'll be back in your feed next
Speaker 3: week with more expert analysis from Sam bankman Fried's trial.
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. This episode of Judging Sam was hosted
Speaker 3: by Jacob Goldstein, Lydia Jean Caught as our court reporter.
Speaker 3: Catherine Gerardau and Nisha Venken produced this show. Sophie Crane
Speaker 3: is our editor. Our music was composed by Matthias Bossi
Speaker 3: and John Evans of stell Wagon's Symphonette. Judging Sam is
Speaker 3: a production of Pushkin Industries. Got a question or comment
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