Speaker 1: Check it down, man, now down. Then it's the Meeting
Speaker 1: the Book Podcast, Bill, alex Brander. I hope you're saying,
Speaker 1: saved during this pandemic. Another sports betting profile during this
Speaker 1: strange time in our lives. Again, Allan Boston has been
Speaker 1: kind enough to join us to do this with us,
Speaker 1: Rufus Peabody Captain Jack Andrews, Bob Stole has sat with
Speaker 1: us to just talk about their evolution as people, but
Speaker 1: specifically for our purposes as sports bettors. Each story as
Speaker 1: fascinating as the previous one. Today, UH fits that Bill.
Speaker 1: This is a gentleman who I have never met before.
Speaker 1: I talked to him this past week icon in the
Speaker 1: sports betting world. He was one of the subjects, of course,
Speaker 1: UH profiled and the best of it that you may
Speaker 1: recall from Allen Boston was also in that one. This
Speaker 1: is Alan dink Dnkinson, a story unlike any other. Everybody's
Speaker 1: got their own. His as unique as they come. Real
Speaker 1: kind of him to sit down and discuss. Hopefully you
Speaker 1: can draw some inspiration from it. Dank on the Beating
Speaker 1: the Book Podcast, Enjoy it's a numbers game with your
Speaker 1: host Jil Alexander. You want those mutios too believe in analytics.
Speaker 1: It is a numbers game right here at Visa Megas.
Speaker 1: That's in information network Serious x M Channel two four,
Speaker 1: Visa dot Com, the Visa at Fubo Slaying game, plus
Speaker 1: the sports betting network. As I mentioned Gil Alexander live
Speaker 1: from San Francisco. During this pandemic, I have tried to,
Speaker 1: for lack of a better comparison, transition into sort of
Speaker 1: Roy Firestone Bob cost this mode and profile some bettors,
Speaker 1: guys that we otherwise might have a tough time getting
Speaker 1: in and doing them justice with enough time when we
Speaker 1: have a standard sports schedule. Rufus Peabody has been kind
Speaker 1: enough to join us. Uh. Captain Jack Bob Stole, Dr
Speaker 1: Bob Alan Boston of course kicked it off force today. UM,
Speaker 1: I'm real thrilled to have this guy on. I have
Speaker 1: not had the opportunity ever to have spoken to him
Speaker 1: prior to this. He cut his teeth back in the
Speaker 1: day when he was a kid betting horses in New York.
Speaker 1: Became a bookmaker New York, New Jersey, pretty sizeable bookmaker.
Speaker 1: Didn't go so well. UH in the end, got busted.
Speaker 1: UH spent some time in jail, came to the dark
Speaker 1: side after that, the dark side meaning the betting side.
Speaker 1: Maybe not the dark side, maybe that's a good side.
Speaker 1: Uh and uh. It has been a renowned sports better
Speaker 1: for many many years, primarily on the sport of hockey,
Speaker 1: and has been the subject really of a couple of films.
Speaker 1: One Bruce Willis playing a character that was based on
Speaker 1: him in TeVeS Lay the favorite. Then, of course many
Speaker 1: of you familiar with the best of it from Alan
Speaker 1: Ding Dinkinson. Good morning to you, sir, Thanks for doing this,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me go um, apologize for the long intro.
Speaker 1: Can I go through the first Let me just start
Speaker 1: here with two perfunctory questions that I did not reflect
Speaker 1: on very uh, very deeply. But one the last name
Speaker 1: is Dinkinson. The nickname is dink Was that just somebody
Speaker 1: mispronouncing it? At some point my sixth grade teacher was
Speaker 1: calling me Dinkinson. And then uh, I was caught by
Speaker 1: a fellow student in my class doing my math homework
Speaker 1: during class. Uh. He came up to the teacher and said,
Speaker 1: Dinky is doing his math homework and sometimes a dinky
Speaker 1: name has stuck for fifty five years since that day,
Speaker 1: and there it is should I should I address you
Speaker 1: as Dinky? Would that be okay? Alan? Seems a little
Speaker 1: either w are you having it all? You really? So
Speaker 1: I'll go there. Uh. And the other thing is and
Speaker 1: please forgive me because you could I'm I'm risking you
Speaker 1: walking off the set here. But I'll tell you a
Speaker 1: little story. Me and my buddy E, who is a
Speaker 1: very successful professional better we were walking out of a
Speaker 1: Vegas Golden Knights Tampa Bay Lightning game in the Nights
Speaker 1: first season, and you may recall this. It was the
Speaker 1: game where the Nights scored with seconds left to win it.
Speaker 1: It was pretty dramatic ending. I think the Lightning had
Speaker 1: come back to tie it up, and then Golden Knights
Speaker 1: went in the second And as we're walking out of
Speaker 1: the state, actually as we got into park MGM, which
Speaker 1: I think at the time was still the Monte Carlo,
Speaker 1: my buddy and I don't know why we brought you up,
Speaker 1: but we started to have a conversation about you, and
Speaker 1: then like just apparition, you appeared. And the reason that
Speaker 1: we saw you from afar is obviously because of your hair. Um.
Speaker 1: This is the first thing that people see those are
Speaker 1: watching at Visa Dot com and the visa app. Has
Speaker 1: this always been a signature of yours? Um, this is
Speaker 1: my hair, this is your hair, this is what it is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess that's kind of because my dad plus this.
Speaker 1: They are a pretty young age, so um, it's been
Speaker 1: one of those things that, yeah, I'm known for. Not
Speaker 1: my favorite thing to be known for, but it's okay,
Speaker 1: let's just put it this way. We wouldn't have spotted
Speaker 1: somebody else from far just his signature of yours. It's
Speaker 1: very icono. Remember I remember that game I was with
Speaker 1: inside the pylons In that game, legend that time back
Speaker 1: to his car with part by parts. Who are who
Speaker 1: are you with? I'm sorry I missed it inside the pylons.
Speaker 1: He's a pretty famous Twitter horse player. Okay, inside the
Speaker 1: pylons I did. I'm sorry I didn't hear. All right,
Speaker 1: I promise you. I think the question the questions get
Speaker 1: better from here on out, I promise you. Let's start
Speaker 1: at the beginning. I mentioned that you, uh, you grew
Speaker 1: up betting horses in New York. Where did you grow
Speaker 1: up specifically, and what was your first experience with the
Speaker 1: glory that is wagering? There? I'm my first thirty seven
Speaker 1: years was spent in various places in Queens. UH. I
Speaker 1: grew up my first ten years in Richmond Hill, moved
Speaker 1: to South Jamaica, which was a co op on the
Speaker 1: old South Jamaica race track. UM. At fifteen, I was
Speaker 1: playing a lot of basketball and two of the older
Speaker 1: kids took me to Roosevelt Raceway and that they changed
Speaker 1: my life. So two kids, I have lost, two guys.
Speaker 1: I've lest touch with Steve Rosenblatt and Barry Lieberman. I
Speaker 1: wonder if there's still listening to sports talk radio UH.
Speaker 1: And that I loved it there and I fell in
Speaker 1: love with the action. I didn't have any money, but
Speaker 1: I think that helped me because I was pretty regularly
Speaker 1: going to the tracks since I was sixteen, without a
Speaker 1: bank roll until I got one, and by that time
Speaker 1: I kind of learned enough about handicapping to be making
Speaker 1: a profit. While I was going to college mostly in
Speaker 1: the night tracks. I was a harness track New York,
Speaker 1: and then I segue to day tracks kind of when
Speaker 1: that game fizzled. But I was there the opening day
Speaker 1: at the meadow Lands. I think I went to Roosevelt
Speaker 1: every every day for meat except two. It was it
Speaker 1: was just my life was going to school during the day,
Speaker 1: going to college, not doing any work outside of the classroom,
Speaker 1: going to classes, playing poker in the cafeteria, and then
Speaker 1: going to Roosevelt Raceway. It sounds like a lovely childhood
Speaker 1: to me. Your favorite it was when I cut my
Speaker 1: teeth in when I was seventeen, you know, to be
Speaker 1: a beginning of my gambling career was all horses. I
Speaker 1: met a man after track who was a small bookmaker,
Speaker 1: and he told me to gather up my friends and
Speaker 1: have them bet with him, and he'd give me of
Speaker 1: the losses back well the quarter sheet. Uh. After two
Speaker 1: years of doing okay, I realized maybe I should do
Speaker 1: this myself and the lesson. So I was booking for
Speaker 1: a little while while I still lived with my parents
Speaker 1: and Forest Hills. Okay. So I teased at the top
Speaker 1: that eventually you got busted. I would imagine you got
Speaker 1: big enough. What Maybe it didn't have anything to do
Speaker 1: with you being a big enough bookmaker. Maybe it happened,
Speaker 1: Maybe it had to do with a specific client. How
Speaker 1: did you ultimately run the foul of the law with that?
Speaker 1: Um I grew I started booking, you know what, we
Speaker 1: considered squares. Then I gradually got a sheet of wise guys.
Speaker 1: I booked the Kosher's, I booked the computers book MCTEA Appleman,
Speaker 1: I booked Alan Boston in his formative years. UM and
Speaker 1: that turned me into a broke bookmaker because I wasn't
Speaker 1: able to handle wise guys. For a while, I had
Speaker 1: to borrow some money, regrouped, learned how to be a
Speaker 1: good bookmaker, grew my strategy. Was never turned down a
Speaker 1: customer who paid. You know, it was hard for a
Speaker 1: while because I had like eight wise guys and I
Speaker 1: never got buy backs in those games at that time.
Speaker 1: And to think about what year that was, not about
Speaker 1: seventy seven, those games started winning extremely regularly. Uh So
Speaker 1: that put me in a hole. I got out of
Speaker 1: the hole. I turned my business around. I ended up
Speaker 1: having hundred fifty customers with that regularly. There was always
Speaker 1: two way action. I opened at four o'clock Eastern and
Speaker 1: my first two customers were Mickey Appleman. Mickey Appleman and
Speaker 1: Alan Boston, and they would fire the whole college basketball
Speaker 1: board a lot of times against each other at the
Speaker 1: same number. I ev aided. I didn't want a book
Speaker 1: that high. I wasn't the biggest bookmaker in the world,
Speaker 1: but I took I took NBA called NBA Totals, which
Speaker 1: weren't very popular back then. Um, and there was a
Speaker 1: lot of two way business from Middler's versus sharps, and
Speaker 1: that helped me as well get a bank roll. UM,
Speaker 1: I would an agent would give me a customer, and
Speaker 1: I got one from Detroit. No idea who he was
Speaker 1: only talked to him one or two times as a person.
Speaker 1: He was just a name and a better who kind
Speaker 1: of was I guess I could see that he was
Speaker 1: betting the sharp sides late, so I guess he was
Speaker 1: laying off his business, which I never cared to discuss.
Speaker 1: It just was just a customer and he was betting
Speaker 1: the right sides very late, so he really didn't have
Speaker 1: an advantage betting bad numbers. Uh. It turned out he
Speaker 1: was involved with Isaiah Thomas and running a dice game,
Speaker 1: and yes, I was aware of him, and they tapped
Speaker 1: his phones and I was one of his bookmakers, and
Speaker 1: they assumed I worked for him as opposed to just
Speaker 1: have a customer book maker relationship with him. Got arrested.
Speaker 1: Took four years for the case to get prosecuted. I
Speaker 1: hired a very good sentencing lawyer, Alan Ellis, and he
Speaker 1: probably saved me from going to real jail. That I
Speaker 1: got into a work released jail, so I worked at
Speaker 1: a friend's deli for three hundred days straight, work every day,
Speaker 1: so I was never really in jail during the daytime.
Speaker 1: It was kind of sleep over jail, so that it
Speaker 1: wasn't that bad. You know. I drove my car to jail,
Speaker 1: and I drove my car at work, and then I
Speaker 1: drove my car back. I took an extra hour or
Speaker 1: two to go to a g A meeting with uh
Speaker 1: happened at CHET four to Chet forty Monday night. Football
Speaker 1: director was at that meeting. To um, we were friends
Speaker 1: that passed away in a year or two after I
Speaker 1: got released from jail or from the halfway house of
Speaker 1: the work release program. Um. You know that that got
Speaker 1: me a felony, and then I decided I can't do
Speaker 1: this anymore because the second felony might need some serious
Speaker 1: jail time. So I had thought I learned enough from
Speaker 1: the people who bet with me to be a successful
Speaker 1: better and just like my bookmaking career, I learned the
Speaker 1: hard way that that's not that easy, and I had
Speaker 1: a regroup there too. I had a decent amount of
Speaker 1: a decent bank roll which got cut into because I
Speaker 1: that too high from my talents um. But then again
Speaker 1: I learned to take that into consideration, work harder. Still
Speaker 1: was always a good hockey handicap. I was trying a
Speaker 1: little too hard to win a baseball regrouped, build up
Speaker 1: my bank roll again, and now I've been doing that
Speaker 1: from ninety five I moved to Vegas, so five twenty
Speaker 1: five years on the other side, so about fifteen years
Speaker 1: book making, twenty five years betting, maybe a little more
Speaker 1: in the betting side. I mean, isn't the biggest, the
Speaker 1: biggest point of all that to me, the big takeaway.
Speaker 1: Obviously it's a it's a roller coaster ride for you.
Speaker 1: But you know, running running foul the law side. If
Speaker 1: we could just put that to the side table that
Speaker 1: for a second you could not have gotten, it would
Speaker 1: seem a better education, Uh, to become a successful sports
Speaker 1: better then from your entire trajectory, right like to to
Speaker 1: two book sharps, to see, oh this is how I'm
Speaker 1: getting beaten, to book squares, and then to really realize
Speaker 1: that as a better than the experience again as a
Speaker 1: better early on as you said to to have a
Speaker 1: lack of success early on, but like that the bookmaking
Speaker 1: lessons must have helped you tremendously. On the other side. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: it was very easy to see what not to do
Speaker 1: because I have a bunch of a ton of squares
Speaker 1: and the squares tended to lose regularly. The wise guys
Speaker 1: always beat the closing line. So most of my I
Speaker 1: think most of my time is now beating the closing
Speaker 1: line as opposed to picking winners. And was that the
Speaker 1: single was that the single biggest lesson dinc was it?
Speaker 1: Was it beating the closing line? I mean if someone
Speaker 1: is landing on this yeah, someone's landing on this show
Speaker 1: for the first time. Let's say they are a novice better,
Speaker 1: what would be another bit of macro advice you would
Speaker 1: give them? As like the single biggest There's so much
Speaker 1: more to learned and what you think you know that
Speaker 1: that you have to You know, it's great if you
Speaker 1: can follow somebody or know somebody who's sharp and see
Speaker 1: how much work they do, because I don't know any
Speaker 1: successful gamblers. And it's harder now because you have to
Speaker 1: program and have bots and you really have some kind
Speaker 1: of a model, whether it's an intern, whether it's a
Speaker 1: model that you can push into a computer, or a
Speaker 1: model you can write down on paper. I'm still a
Speaker 1: paper and pen guy. But to arrive at a line
Speaker 1: that will get you the better that will be the
Speaker 1: closing number. That's that's my objective. And beating the closing number.
Speaker 1: If you're just going to bet without caring what number
Speaker 1: you're laying and when you're laying it at the right time,
Speaker 1: either early or very late. If you're up against a
Speaker 1: lot of very shot people, now it's really hard. I
Speaker 1: would stress that there are brilliant people in this business.
Speaker 1: When I first got into betting and book making, a
Speaker 1: college degree would make one of the top five of
Speaker 1: the people who are in the gambling field, and now
Speaker 1: a college degree would probably make you in the bottom.
Speaker 1: Just a college degree would make you in the bottom. Tempers, jeez, well,
Speaker 1: we gotta take a break here. When we come back,
Speaker 1: I want to dive into some of of what you
Speaker 1: just touched on, which is how do you view young,
Speaker 1: really educated betters today who are doing things with algorithms.
Speaker 1: Do you view them um with any disdain or do
Speaker 1: you view them with admiration and wish that you had
Speaker 1: had a similar background. I think you touched on that
Speaker 1: a little also, Um, with legalization, now are some of
Speaker 1: your worst fears coming true? Do you still think that
Speaker 1: sports betting ultimately for you is a profitable thing. We'll
Speaker 1: get back to that. Alan din Dinkinson kind enough to
Speaker 1: join us right here on a numbers game at vas
Speaker 1: in the Sports Betting Network. James Selina's Michael Lombardi as well,
Speaker 1: come on, come back to a numbers game with Gil Alexander.
Speaker 1: Back on a numbers game, just like the man said,
Speaker 1: Gil Alexander live in San Francisco. Alan dink Dinkinson kind
Speaker 1: enough to join us for the hour this morning. Um,
Speaker 1: and I mentioned all the things that Alan has done
Speaker 1: betting wise, I didn't mention a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: World Series of Poker Super Senior event cashed in that
Speaker 1: I think a top ten finish. Um. Lots of stuff
Speaker 1: here that, uh, you know, just a laundry list of things.
Speaker 1: We were joking on Twitter. You were joking last night. Uh,
Speaker 1: if we talk wrestling, you'd stay here for two hours.
Speaker 1: Are you still obsessed with wrestling out? Um? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: promote a small independent promotion. UM, wrestling has got me by.
Speaker 1: I listened to some podcasts every day just kind of
Speaker 1: keeps me busy. Not a big movie guy. I don't
Speaker 1: really want to watch those are and be depressed about
Speaker 1: seeing people. Uh. I'm more of a Prince of Brian
Speaker 1: kind of guy. So I want to se make me
Speaker 1: happy as opposed to, you know, intense watching movies about gangsters.
Speaker 1: You know, I understand. I'm trying to find happy things
Speaker 1: that will distract me. And wrestling is a nice little
Speaker 1: fantasy world that's created, uh to get you through hard
Speaker 1: times of the real world. And this is the real
Speaker 1: hard times, you know, sixties six. This is the worst
Speaker 1: thing I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, I mean, look, yeah,
Speaker 1: I say it. I never thought it happened in my lifetime.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's sixty six. You you feel the same
Speaker 1: way as a as someone who is sixty six years old, Dick,
Speaker 1: and you look at some of these young guys who
Speaker 1: are super educated and super smart. I brought up Rufus
Speaker 1: earlier on the show. Rufus Peabody is always the first
Speaker 1: person that leaps to mind for me as someone who
Speaker 1: does this. Um, you know, just absolutely cerebrally, and Rufus
Speaker 1: will be the first person to tell you as soon
Speaker 1: as his emotion gets involved, that's when he gets nervous
Speaker 1: or his thoughts. Um, do you look at guys like
Speaker 1: that just to hold him up as one of many
Speaker 1: who do that, not not not a huge universe, but
Speaker 1: more than just him, obviously. Do you look at them
Speaker 1: and and have it almost ad Is it admiration? Is
Speaker 1: it jealousy? Like equal parts that? What is it for you? Admiration?
Speaker 1: I think it's a little jealousy and the fact that
Speaker 1: I can't be like them. I can't do what they do.
Speaker 1: I can't code, I don't know what are is. I
Speaker 1: barely can use excel. I'm doing things, you know, the
Speaker 1: primitive way. I become the dinosaur of the business. But
Speaker 1: I'm friendly with all of those people. Um, Rufus, I
Speaker 1: know I wouldn't consider my friend, but I definitely respect him.
Speaker 1: I think he respects me. I'm friendly with Joey Tunes,
Speaker 1: I'm friendly with Spanky. I don't want to miss people.
Speaker 1: I'm friends with Rabisola, A lot of people who do
Speaker 1: a lot of coding and great work. And you know,
Speaker 1: I you know they respect me because I pay the
Speaker 1: way for them, I guess, and they know I respect them.
Speaker 1: I don't get I don't consider them enemies. They make
Speaker 1: me do work a little bit differently to get the
Speaker 1: good numbers. I have to bet before them, because I
Speaker 1: have to bet when the market doesn't have that much,
Speaker 1: that much volatility. I have to bet one Pinnacle and
Speaker 1: Chris open right away because they don't want to touch
Speaker 1: those lines, because they don't get down and knocking. That
Speaker 1: really helps me. But I admire them so much. I
Speaker 1: know them, I know their families, a lot of them.
Speaker 1: They're just really good people, the ones that I do know,
Speaker 1: and I consider a lot of them friends, and I
Speaker 1: certainly respect what they do well. We have ninety seconds
Speaker 1: here before the next break. Think, but given what you
Speaker 1: just said, that hurdle and perhaps others sports betting, then
Speaker 1: to to turn a profit is that much more difficult
Speaker 1: than I But I guess it was ten years ago,
Speaker 1: fifteen years, twenty years not. I guess I know. Does
Speaker 1: it is it to the extent that it almost deflates
Speaker 1: you sometimes? Or do you still think if you can
Speaker 1: turn a profit here consistently. I think I can turn
Speaker 1: a profit here consistently. But I used to be sure
Speaker 1: I can turn a profit here consistent. I have to.
Speaker 1: I have to keep up on my game, find little things.
Speaker 1: You know. I've been fortunately cashing the NHC this year.
Speaker 1: I was a little bonus the candicapping contest. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of a jack of all trade semester of none.
Speaker 1: But trying to beat the closing line is what I
Speaker 1: can do by work and by calling around, and by
Speaker 1: shopping well and having little outs and you know, having
Speaker 1: people help me a little get down on good numbers.
Speaker 1: I that's the that's my test. Leaving the closing line.
Speaker 1: You know it's not perfect. I know that's what gambles
Speaker 1: because the end all up to end all, and I
Speaker 1: think it's almost the end all to end all. But
Speaker 1: there's a time also to know enough about sports to
Speaker 1: buy back at the right time as well. Um, I
Speaker 1: always learned. I like to learn. So I like to
Speaker 1: talk to these kids to do well. And a lot
Speaker 1: of them have been nice enough to I love the attitude. Um,
Speaker 1: others aren't as gracious. I'll be honest with you. We'll
Speaker 1: come back. We'll find out just exactly what you're betting
Speaker 1: pie is these days, what you still love to bet
Speaker 1: what you love to bet recreationally? What's for profit? We'll
Speaker 1: come back Alan dink Dinkinson on a numbers game at
Speaker 1: Visa these Sports Betting Network. Welcome back to a numbers
Speaker 1: game with Jill Alexander. It is Gil Alexander live in
Speaker 1: San Francisco, Dank Allen Dakinson in Vega. Appreciate it, Dan,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate you hanging out with us. So what
Speaker 1: are you betting these days? So, in other words, hockey
Speaker 1: became the sport that you were best known for. I
Speaker 1: assume when key resumes that you will all be all
Speaker 1: about hockey. But you mentioned you are involved in some
Speaker 1: You know you're still playing horses. That's what you cut
Speaker 1: your teeth all to use your words. Um, there's poker, Like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing for profit these days? What are
Speaker 1: you doing recreationally? I'm almost doing only recreational stuff. I
Speaker 1: consider this my first vacation in forty years. But I
Speaker 1: do look at things. I got involved with the UFC
Speaker 1: car that didn't work out so well. Um so that
Speaker 1: was the only thing I've done in the last two
Speaker 1: months that I consider real gambling. I do, uh keep
Speaker 1: busy by looking at horses, but my handles like three
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a day and maybe even less than that.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm just I don't want to handicap Finner and
Speaker 1: Will Rogers, and I always thought as tracks closed, I
Speaker 1: didn't trust gold Stream in Tampa Bay to stay opened
Speaker 1: that long. I've held my own with it for the
Speaker 1: last two months, but I really haven't even tried to
Speaker 1: make a Seria profit because I didn't want to come
Speaker 1: into this and go there's only a few things to bet,
Speaker 1: so I'll bet them. I didn't want to study Korean baseball.
Speaker 1: I'm just waiting for sports to come back, and hopefully
Speaker 1: there's something it's about baseball. I I do that it's
Speaker 1: gonna be hard. It's gonna be hard to get through
Speaker 1: this without problems, and I think the problems can puse
Speaker 1: them to close down after they opened. I'm taking a
Speaker 1: very pessimistic view until we get this thing cleared with
Speaker 1: a vaccine, and it might be a year, it might
Speaker 1: even be more. But I keep going with trying to
Speaker 1: be more social. Actually and see, oh I think we
Speaker 1: do we lose. Dick says, we'll try to We'll try
Speaker 1: to get Yeah, we got your back. Yeah, I know
Speaker 1: I meant upon resumption obviously with but you know, you
Speaker 1: bring that up about your pessimism with this working out,
Speaker 1: I have sort of you know, I haven't really joked,
Speaker 1: that's not the right word. But whenever I breast skepticism,
Speaker 1: dink on that as well, because I'm on your page, like,
Speaker 1: I'll believe it when I see the plan that makes sense.
Speaker 1: First of all, By the way, with baseball, the first
Speaker 1: thing that should exist is there's a no spitting rule.
Speaker 1: How are we even going to get past that hurdle? Right? Like,
Speaker 1: It's it's so basic even something like that. So I'm
Speaker 1: with you on that. But people get all crazy when
Speaker 1: you even express skepticism. But when it does come back,
Speaker 1: you're you're primarily what I'm getting a hockey and baseball guy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I want to do. I mean, chasing numbers
Speaker 1: or you know something we're looking for value in their
Speaker 1: markets on on basketball football. I do that as an
Speaker 1: inside Again, if there's a road number and I see
Speaker 1: it moving towards the away from that number, I might
Speaker 1: grab it. Whatever sports book account I have in the
Speaker 1: Vegas sports books, or a couple of all shores, a
Speaker 1: couple of paper heads, maybe a trade with somebody looking
Speaker 1: at late form and so seven here you want plus
Speaker 1: four plus so seven at the head deal. There's always
Speaker 1: things to do that give you a small edge. My
Speaker 1: edges are much smaller than they used to be twenty
Speaker 1: years ago. But I mean my biggest edges before Don Best.
Speaker 1: Don Best kind of ruined the business because it gave
Speaker 1: you too much information. Instead of working hard to get
Speaker 1: a line at the sea where the lines were moving,
Speaker 1: all you have to do is have a machine that
Speaker 1: everybody else has. And if you didn't have that machine
Speaker 1: and that information, you were away behind the game. So
Speaker 1: I blamed Don Best for from making this business highly
Speaker 1: competitive with people who don't work that hard because they
Speaker 1: see the same numbers that I do. Yeah, and the
Speaker 1: older I was there when Caesar's Palace at seven and
Speaker 1: the Valley's at five at the same time, and I
Speaker 1: had runners in those places, you know, like the five,
Speaker 1: we're taking the seven or a bout some of us
Speaker 1: hear stories like that, Nick, and we're just like wow,
Speaker 1: that like that, What an interesting time that must have been.
Speaker 1: Um that was my biggest regret. I didn't take advantage
Speaker 1: of great opportunities. I just thought they'd be there forever.
Speaker 1: So you know, just make a decent amount of money
Speaker 1: instead of optimizing my game. For lack of a better
Speaker 1: way of phrasing this, uh, in a more delicate way,
Speaker 1: I guess what else sort of pisces you off about
Speaker 1: the industry, Like in other words, Twitter is an interesting place, right,
Speaker 1: No one ever loses a bet there. With legalization has
Speaker 1: has come a proliferation of sports betting media. This network included, um,
Speaker 1: what what bothers you about? You know? This latest evolution
Speaker 1: is have your worst fears come true? With that? In
Speaker 1: some way, I think t would spother me the most
Speaker 1: of the people who have no opinions and act like
Speaker 1: they do, um, not quiet as you know, obsessive about
Speaker 1: it as some people, but that people look at people like,
Speaker 1: you know, the vaguest day as a as a prominent
Speaker 1: gambler or something, and it's like a guy that guys
Speaker 1: just trying to scam money. He's he's this generation STU finer. Uh,
Speaker 1: it's all smoking mirrors and that's not what gambler should be.
Speaker 1: With that, so I think I'm grouped into that that.
Speaker 1: You know, the people with the highest regard from the
Speaker 1: public are not deserving of the highest regard. It's people
Speaker 1: like you who know some of the people because they're
Speaker 1: You're a guest, deserved to be respected um, and sometimes
Speaker 1: that respect goes to the people who are just trying
Speaker 1: to steal your money. I think that's my biggest problem
Speaker 1: with the industry is it's it's very capable to attract
Speaker 1: scammers and have the scammers to be successful. Also, people
Speaker 1: who take shots and don't pay. The credit is a
Speaker 1: credit is a double edged sword. It's good for people
Speaker 1: who get credit and bookmakers who pay, and gamblers who pay,
Speaker 1: but it's really a problem when they're laid downs and
Speaker 1: book bookmakers open up and have no intention of paying.
Speaker 1: There was a bookmaker the day before the draft who
Speaker 1: must have saw what his viability was and every bet
Speaker 1: was one sided, and he decided to close down and
Speaker 1: come back when a sport would come and not honor
Speaker 1: any bets that were pending. So in order to get
Speaker 1: out of one day disaster that he knew was coming,
Speaker 1: he just canceled all the bets. You hear a lot
Speaker 1: of bookmakers are struggling now, so I worry about that too,
Speaker 1: So I only bet with the ones where I know
Speaker 1: get paid. Yeah. We Sadly we've heard stories during the
Speaker 1: pandemic of a lot of skins out there there that
Speaker 1: have done that with NFL draft bets for instance. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: and sadly they're not few and far between, which is obviously,
Speaker 1: uh not a good thing to say the least. We'll
Speaker 1: come back one more breaker, wrap it up with you,
Speaker 1: dink I want to get into how lay the Favorite
Speaker 1: came to you? Is the book better than the film?
Speaker 1: How of course the best of it came to you?
Speaker 1: All that? Um, Alan Dakinson right here on a numbers
Speaker 1: game at Visa these sports betting network at Visa, welcome
Speaker 1: back to a numbers game with Jill Alexander. Don't forget.
Speaker 1: Now is the time to become a Visent Plus subscriber.
Speaker 1: It is free. You won't have to decide what you
Speaker 1: want to do, pay or cancel until at least one
Speaker 1: of the major sports returns. Just go to Visa dot
Speaker 1: com slash subscribe to sign up. That's Visa dot Com
Speaker 1: slash subscribe. Allen Dinkinson, dank joining us for the duration
Speaker 1: of the hour. Here for the balance I should say
Speaker 1: on a numbers game at Visa. Series except channel to
Speaker 1: oh four, and thank you once again Allen for doing so.
Speaker 1: Um One of one of the reasons that I really
Speaker 1: am attracted to all the stuff that you put out
Speaker 1: on Twitter and just in meeting you here today is
Speaker 1: you're super honest. You're transparent. You're not one of these
Speaker 1: people who's talking about a win, just like I used to.
Speaker 1: Um So, I always respect honesty. Honesty is not a
Speaker 1: How can I put this? An abundant quality in this industry,
Speaker 1: as you very well know far better than I do.
Speaker 1: Um So, I appreciate that, sir uh Lay, the favorite
Speaker 1: Bruce Willis plays a character based on you. You were
Speaker 1: consultant for this film, I believe at first time of
Speaker 1: this company. Um well, the girl who wrote the book
Speaker 1: worked for me and we're still friends. Um They. I
Speaker 1: got to meet the director and the screenplay right, Stephen
Speaker 1: Frears and Dvdevon Centers, because they came to see before
Speaker 1: they did the screenplay. They came to look at my
Speaker 1: office and how I did my business, and we became
Speaker 1: friendly and they asked me to be a consultant, which
Speaker 1: about all the gambling stuff. So we did a ten
Speaker 1: days in Vegas. In the first seven days in New Orleans,
Speaker 1: and that was my half of the movie where I consulted.
Speaker 1: I was promised the paycheck. I'd never got it. That
Speaker 1: was from the EMMA I'm not. I don't know. He's
Speaker 1: fighting with fifty cents of something, some crazy independent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: was actually a producer of The Favorite, if you look
Speaker 1: at the credits. Not that I think he was. I
Speaker 1: think he was a money backer. He put in money.
Speaker 1: They bought the movie. They sold the movie before the
Speaker 1: movie was shot, so they didn't want to put anything
Speaker 1: into the movie, which is why the movie wasn't good
Speaker 1: because it was already purchased. Um, you know that the
Speaker 1: book is great, the best of our Guide. The book
Speaker 1: is so much the movie was, and then the book
Speaker 1: was very respected. She wrote such a good book that
Speaker 1: it became a movie. I don't know if you've read
Speaker 1: the book, but I always advised people to read the
Speaker 1: book before they see the movie, because if they see
Speaker 1: the movie, they have no interest in reading the book. Um,
Speaker 1: how about the best of It? I knew Scott e
Speaker 1: really a little. He was a producer at t V
Speaker 1: g Um. He was going to do a movie based
Speaker 1: on The Shrink. But in the middle of that movie,
Speaker 1: the Shrink passed away. So he picked it up with
Speaker 1: Alan Boston and I am lem Banker and did a
Speaker 1: documentary on four gamblers, even though one had already been deceased. Um,
Speaker 1: that was fun, that was easy. He just came to
Speaker 1: my house and shadow out of footage. And we're still
Speaker 1: friends too. I talked to him every once in a while.
Speaker 1: He's in Minnesota. Now I've had some life that yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: I mean I guess yeah, when you when you look
Speaker 1: back on all this, not to say that you don't
Speaker 1: have still a bright future. I don't want to. This
Speaker 1: is not a this is not in any way a
Speaker 1: eulogy of any kind. But when you look back on life,
Speaker 1: those those who are listening to this show, who are
Speaker 1: super fascinated by a gambling, by the characters who have
Speaker 1: created the industry into what it is, you know, have
Speaker 1: have have to you know, had a big hand in it,
Speaker 1: in it becoming what it is today, And they look
Speaker 1: at I mean, look, we just talked about you. You
Speaker 1: were better, you became a bookmaker, you went to jail,
Speaker 1: then you became a you know, you better again, you
Speaker 1: became successful, better you were you know, you had movies
Speaker 1: based on you. When you look back on it all.
Speaker 1: Do you know, like we all have a sort of story.
Speaker 1: I know, I tell about my mom. One one of
Speaker 1: her sons as a doctor, my brother the other one
Speaker 1: does something else right. She doesn't know really how to
Speaker 1: describe what what it is that I do. Other know,
Speaker 1: I think you on the radio. So we all have
Speaker 1: a lot of that in common. I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: your mom, uh you know your years that I was
Speaker 1: an accountant, I was an account Does she get what
Speaker 1: you do now? Or did or did she get how
Speaker 1: did you've gone now? She does with what I did
Speaker 1: when I went to jail, but until then I was
Speaker 1: an account She thought she could get me out of
Speaker 1: going to jail because she voted for somebody and who's
Speaker 1: a district attorney or something in New York, and that
Speaker 1: she was. She never really aggress what the whole thing,
Speaker 1: what how it works. She thought she's the gambling was terrible.
Speaker 1: She wanted me to be a stockbroker. And I tried
Speaker 1: to explain that that's kind of like aunt, that's not
Speaker 1: really not really an honorable, most honorable profession. But I've
Speaker 1: just been lucky. Two years ago, for two months, Joey
Speaker 1: and Colder would live with me. That was another one
Speaker 1: of those miracle connection things. She's she's going to be
Speaker 1: fighting for the UFC championship again, Valentina. When Valentina recovers
Speaker 1: from her injury, I know Santa Basler, well, she's one
Speaker 1: of my closer friends and she's going to be probably
Speaker 1: fighting for the w W championship again. Little things just
Speaker 1: fall into my lap and there are a bunch of
Speaker 1: fun miracles that made my life very exciting. And thinking, right,
Speaker 1: you're thinking of writing a book now, yeah, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: of writing a book. I just know how my vocabulary,
Speaker 1: I know how good death was as a writer. And
Speaker 1: I so pale behind her that, you know, and I
Speaker 1: look at my I write a chapter and I got, God,
Speaker 1: this is terrible, you know. And then I send it
Speaker 1: to her and she goes, she makes suggestions, and I go,
Speaker 1: you may as well write the book for me, because
Speaker 1: that's what it's gonna be. You know. She's just corrects
Speaker 1: all my flaws and my lack of a good vocabulary
Speaker 1: and lack of setting a scene. And you know, that's
Speaker 1: one of my strength, is I know my weaknesses. I
Speaker 1: think that's uh, somebody once described as my strength that
Speaker 1: I know my limitation and they don't try to leave them,
Speaker 1: which is very important. It's it's very important, Gambly, It's
Speaker 1: very important in life, right. It's a universal truism. The
Speaker 1: recognizing what you don't know is really a function of intelligence.
Speaker 1: So I guess we sort of answered the question. Maybe
Speaker 1: maybe we didn't. But what I was going to get
Speaker 1: to was, as you look back on all of it,
Speaker 1: would you have had it any other way? I'm sure
Speaker 1: you wouldn't have wanted to go to jail, but you
Speaker 1: said it was kind of an okay experience under the
Speaker 1: context of what going to jail means. I'm sure there
Speaker 1: are there are little regrets, but just from a big standpoint,
Speaker 1: a macro standpoint, would you have done anything differently? Or
Speaker 1: is this the life that you are really that you
Speaker 1: wanted to live? This is definitely the life I wanted
Speaker 1: to hate that this Older people are like going over
Speaker 1: my life, like I won't have more life coming, But um, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is the I said, I like, and you know,
Speaker 1: I wish it's been taken away from me by a pandemic.
Speaker 1: I'm also very you know, I'm involved with a band
Speaker 1: called The Joy Formidable. They become friends and they tore
Speaker 1: a lot and now they can't tour, and that that
Speaker 1: was something I always wanted to look forward to the
Speaker 1: next show. I would take a show where a friend
Speaker 1: is living that I haven't seen for a while and
Speaker 1: just fly out and go to that show. That was
Speaker 1: important to me. I thought I had like five good
Speaker 1: years left before I can't do things like because of
Speaker 1: age of invitations. H you know, you're still yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: worried about that. They're taking away like of my last
Speaker 1: good years in the pandemic. You know, I say that,
Speaker 1: and I say that, I think about about like twenty
Speaker 1: eight year olds and twenty nine year olds or of
Speaker 1: that age. I've been saying that about that age group,
Speaker 1: which is wow, that's like that's prime years that they
Speaker 1: you know, obviously they'll they'll have years to make up
Speaker 1: for it, but it really is time from their prime
Speaker 1: that you can't get back in some way. So it
Speaker 1: kind of sucks all the way around, right, Also going
Speaker 1: to change the world. The world is gonna be a
Speaker 1: lot different when we get through things that you can do,
Speaker 1: won't do things that won't be there, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll see Listen. I really appreciate spending the time. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: go ahead, hoping we get the vaccine sooner than later,
Speaker 1: and like we can return to somewhat normal than a year. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and most of it take the most of them, like
Speaker 1: Captain Jack preparing for the future, you know, thank you
Speaker 1: is preparing more more more, plans to attack more bookmakers
Speaker 1: in the future, to get ready. But when we come
Speaker 1: back to all, yeah, I'm so hopeful that this will
Speaker 1: not cripple us much longer. I'm hoping six months things
Speaker 1: will get much better. I hope as we listen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because those of us who are as concerned as any
Speaker 1: still understand and you know, and still understand and recognize
Speaker 1: that at some point you got to dip your toe
Speaker 1: back into the economy. You can't do this forever. So
Speaker 1: I think if you can hold two thoughts and the balance,
Speaker 1: they're going until the boards opening to you know, there's
Speaker 1: about I understand that there's a balance that I have
Speaker 1: wealthy friends who don't leave a house because they don't
Speaker 1: need to leave the house, but I recognize that a
Speaker 1: lot of people do need to get back financially. Things
Speaker 1: are not closed, and we're going to lose a lot
Speaker 1: of businesses. And I feel terrible about that. You know,
Speaker 1: I worry about the world. It's not just me. I
Speaker 1: worry about the world. I think I got sixty seconds.
Speaker 1: What's the charity you're involved with? Real quick O Kyle
Speaker 1: thorough Red Rescue and they take horses from the race.
Speaker 1: I can rehome them and give them a job to do.
Speaker 1: Um it's a small it's a small Old Friends is
Speaker 1: a very big one. That's a little old friends for
Speaker 1: horses that aren't all that's successful. Sct B Rescue dot
Speaker 1: org is the website. If you're have a little extra
Speaker 1: money and you care about horse racing, UM, it would
Speaker 1: be great. Donate. I will be back when sports reopened,
Speaker 1: giving out picks that for donations. It goes right to
Speaker 1: the charity. Take compenny out of that. Um My giving
Speaker 1: back a Gambles don't really take anything, but they don't
Speaker 1: get them back either. So that's my way of giving back.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of gambles are now giving back more.
Speaker 1: Think of the way the world is. To Alan Dink,
Speaker 1: it's and everybody dink. You can follow him on Twitter
Speaker 1: at I guess that's dink ink. Isn't that what that is?
Speaker 1: At dink ink d I n K I n c
Speaker 1: t say again, I'm sorry name of my fake business
Speaker 1: when I was working with the name of your fake
Speaker 1: and make business Bag of the Day, Alan, thank you
Speaker 1: so much, sir. I appreciate it. Alan Dakinson right when
Speaker 1: the Number Game bag