WEBVTT - The Truth with Dr. Jason Fung

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<v Speaker 1>This is the most traumatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>If you have listened to this podcast at all, you

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<v Speaker 1>know that we deal with a lot of health related

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<v Speaker 1>topics because it is obviously something to do with our relationships,

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<v Speaker 1>not only our external relationships, but just the relationship with

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<v Speaker 1>ourself and our body and taking care of ourselves. One

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<v Speaker 1>of the big topics that we have covered is intermittent fasting.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, there are diet fads that we talk about

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<v Speaker 1>all the time. We've gotten into even what's going on

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<v Speaker 1>with ozimpic and Menjaro and all this stuff, but intermittent

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<v Speaker 1>fasting has been kind of above reproach. It's not even

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<v Speaker 1>considered a fad by many. It's just been this kind

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<v Speaker 1>of steadfast dietary plan that to this point has been

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<v Speaker 1>really bulletproof. But then, all of a sudden, from very

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<v Speaker 1>credible sources, including the American Heart Association, a study of

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<v Speaker 1>over twenty eight thousand adults finds that those who followed

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<v Speaker 1>an eight hour time restricted eating schedule i e. This

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<v Speaker 1>is you know, intermittent fasting, have a ninety one percent

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<v Speaker 1>higher risk of death from cardiovascular disease. Now, when you

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<v Speaker 1>hear those numbers, you think, my God, and there's more

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<v Speaker 1>to that that we'll talk about in this study. But

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<v Speaker 1>I immediately started scouring the internet, got deep into this

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<v Speaker 1>rabbit hole and I know what I don't know, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's important in this world to know when you have

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<v Speaker 1>reached your limit, hit that ceiling, and you need to

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<v Speaker 1>go to an expert. I have found an expert joining

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<v Speaker 1>me now on the most dramatic podcast ever is doctor

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<v Speaker 1>Jason Fung. Why is he an expert? Well, not only

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<v Speaker 1>is he a doctor, but he literally wrote a book,

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<v Speaker 1>The Complete Guide to Fasting. So if there is anybody

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<v Speaker 1>in this world, doctor Jason Fung, I think you are

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<v Speaker 1>more than qualified to get into what we just read

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<v Speaker 1>about intermittent fasting. Welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.

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<v Speaker 1>And by the way, I should also say New York

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<v Speaker 1>Times bestseller. He has written many books, so go check

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<v Speaker 1>out doctor Fun. But one of those books is about fasting. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>you are well read. You were up on this, the

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<v Speaker 1>latest news that came out from the American Heart Association.

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<v Speaker 1>What was your initial take? What do you make of this?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the thing is that the study is basically garbage.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not really a study. So First of all, it's

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it's an abstract that was presented at a meeting,

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<v Speaker 2>which usually has to go through peer review to get

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<v Speaker 2>over it. But the main problem with the way that

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<v Speaker 2>it is presented, it's not that the study is garbage,

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<v Speaker 2>it's that the interpretation has been sort of very well overplayed.

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<v Speaker 2>So in science we have to, you know, very carefully

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<v Speaker 2>distinguish between what when two things are correlated and when

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<v Speaker 2>one thing causes the other, because you know, two things

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<v Speaker 2>can be correlated, but they don't cause one another's. So

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<v Speaker 2>for example, if you look at people with gray hair

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<v Speaker 2>versus people without gray hair, the risk of dyeing is

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<v Speaker 2>probably like ten times. Why because the people with gray

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<v Speaker 2>hair are older, So you can't compare the two groups

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<v Speaker 2>because they're very unequal. However, there's a very strong correlation

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<v Speaker 2>between the grayness of your hair and how much your

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<v Speaker 2>risk of dyeing is, or the wrinkles on your face

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<v Speaker 2>and how you know your risk of dying. But obviously

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't mean that you should dye your hair black

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<v Speaker 2>and that will reduce your risk, and it doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 2>that you should get you know, botox and that will

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<v Speaker 2>reduce your risk. It's completely irrelevant. So those two things

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<v Speaker 2>are correlated because they're caused by a third external factor.

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<v Speaker 2>That is the age is the confounder here. So if

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<v Speaker 2>you're older, you have gray hair. If you're older, your

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<v Speaker 2>risk of dying is higher. But one doesn't cause the other.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's very very important to keep in mind. So

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<v Speaker 2>the point of this study was that they correlated two groups.

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<v Speaker 2>One group that was, you know, sort of fasting. They

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<v Speaker 2>weren't fasting, they were not eating over a period of

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<v Speaker 2>time compared to those that did. And they said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>one group has a higher risk, but that doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 2>that one cause the other. And what happens is that

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<v Speaker 2>people took that to mean one cause the other. And

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<v Speaker 2>that's where it gets very dangerous because it's in medicine.

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<v Speaker 2>There's something called the healthy user bias, which means that

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<v Speaker 2>if you look at two groups of people that are unequal,

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<v Speaker 2>then of course you're going to find a risk that

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<v Speaker 2>may go up. For example, we did this when we

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<v Speaker 2>looked at hormone replacement therapy. So if you look at

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<v Speaker 2>women who took hormone replacement therapy, this is twenty years

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<v Speaker 2>ago when we put virtually, you know, every postmenopausal woman

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<v Speaker 2>on hormone replacement therapy. My mom was on it, all

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<v Speaker 2>her friends were on it, everybody was on it. And

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<v Speaker 2>they did this because there's a strong correlation between I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>the women who took hormone replacement therapy and the risk

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<v Speaker 2>of heart disease was about fifty percent lower. So people

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<v Speaker 2>took this and said, well, that proves that taking it

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<v Speaker 2>reduces your heart risk, which is the same as saying

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<v Speaker 2>dyeing your hair black reduces your risk of dying. It doesn't.

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<v Speaker 2>It turns out that the group that took hormone replacement

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<v Speaker 2>therapy was much healthier in many other ways. They looked

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<v Speaker 2>after themselves, they saw their doctor, they got their blood work.

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<v Speaker 2>So when they actually did the study, they found that,

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<v Speaker 2>in fact, taking hormone replacement doesn't reduce your risk at all. Zero.

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<v Speaker 2>It had zero benefits. So we literally put millions of

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<v Speaker 2>women on based on this flawed understanding. And by the way,

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<v Speaker 2>this understanding that correlation is not causation, That is that

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<v Speaker 2>two things are correlated does not mean that one causes

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<v Speaker 2>the other. That sort of very basic, sort of first

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<v Speaker 2>year you know, statistics sort of thing. Everybody should know this,

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<v Speaker 2>but we we spent you know, hundreds of millions of

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<v Speaker 2>dollars to put women on women, millions of women on

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<v Speaker 2>needless drugs. We did the same thing with multi vitamins,

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<v Speaker 2>for example. So people said, well, if you take a multivitamin,

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<v Speaker 2>there's it's correlated with the risk of dying that is lower.

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<v Speaker 2>But when they actually gave people multi vitamins, it didn't

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<v Speaker 2>lower the risk of dying. Same thing. Healthy people who

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<v Speaker 2>took multivitamins were healthier in many other ways. So you

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<v Speaker 2>have to look at this idea that okay, eating you know,

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<v Speaker 2>not eating for sixteen hours a day. Were those people

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<v Speaker 2>different than the people who were eating, you know, six

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<v Speaker 2>times a day, that kind of thing. And what I

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<v Speaker 2>have to understand is that the database that they used

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<v Speaker 2>from two thousand and three to two thousand and eighteen,

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<v Speaker 2>at that point, nobody was doing intermittent fasting. So if

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<v Speaker 2>you look at Google trends, for example, and I wrote

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<v Speaker 2>about this, you know, if you look at Google trends,

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<v Speaker 2>there was zero interest. In two thousand and four, twenty ten,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty fifteen, nobody was interested in fasting for either health

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<v Speaker 2>reasons or weight loss. It was considered the stupidest thing

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<v Speaker 2>you could do. I know, because I was writing all

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<v Speaker 2>about it, and I got all kinds of flag. It

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't until I published my book The Obesity Code and

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<v Speaker 2>then The Complete Guide to Fasting that it started to

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<v Speaker 2>go up because I pointed out that, hey, there's nothing

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<v Speaker 2>wrong with intermittent fasting. But if you think about the

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<v Speaker 2>group that was not eating during the period for ninety

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<v Speaker 2>percent of their database, those people were different because those

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<v Speaker 2>people were probably people who had, you know, drug problems.

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<v Speaker 2>They might have alcoholism, they might be smokers. They might

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<v Speaker 2>not be eating because they had other illnesses such as cancer.

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<v Speaker 2>So any of those things could have caused this seeming

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<v Speaker 2>this correlation, but it doesn't mean that one caused the other.

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<v Speaker 2>So the entire premise of the study was flawed because

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<v Speaker 2>they were saying, well, people were fasting back in two

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<v Speaker 2>thousand and three for weight loss, but nobody was. The

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<v Speaker 2>interest in fasting was abysmal when I started writing about

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen. I mean, people thought it

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<v Speaker 2>was the craziest thing they'd ever heard of, Like, you

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<v Speaker 2>have to eat. Everybody knew you had to.

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<v Speaker 1>Eat well at the time. The fad was the opposite

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<v Speaker 1>of that. You should have like eight small meals a day,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, or ten small meals a day, whatever it was. So,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean when intermin fasting came on, because I've always

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<v Speaker 1>been so into all these trends and things, we really

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<v Speaker 1>was revolutionary because it was so one hundred and eighty

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<v Speaker 1>degrees from where we were exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's that's the point that the group they're looking

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<v Speaker 2>at was a group that wasn't fasting for any reason

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<v Speaker 2>other than there was other reasons they weren't eating, and

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<v Speaker 2>those other reasons were likely what caused it. But now

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<v Speaker 2>they're applying sort of what we think in twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 2>four to the people in two thousand and five. They're saying, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>people were doing it for diet, Like no, nobody was

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<v Speaker 2>doing it for health or any other reason. So the

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<v Speaker 2>entire premise that is these are sort of basic, basic

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<v Speaker 2>sort of errors in interpretation. The study is the study,

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<v Speaker 2>the correlation is the correlation, but the way you interpret

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<v Speaker 2>it that one causes the other is so erroneous, like

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<v Speaker 2>such a basic Like if anybody said that to me

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<v Speaker 2>above high school, I'd say, you're an idiot.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, It's well, and it was interesting that I read.

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<v Speaker 1>I started reading deeper and you know, they didn't take

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<v Speaker 1>into account, for example, when you were in that window,

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<v Speaker 1>say you had an eight hour window or of eating

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<v Speaker 1>what these people were eating in that eight hours. How

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<v Speaker 1>you break your fast is very important, what you're eating

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<v Speaker 1>when you break your fast and in that so they

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<v Speaker 1>didn't take into account. You know, so I could have

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<v Speaker 1>broken my fast and eaten croissants for eight hours. You

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<v Speaker 1>could have been on a high protein diet. Well, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you're probably going to be healthier than me. And they

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<v Speaker 1>didn't take into account. They were saying, like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>cancer and diabetics had a higher risk. Well, no kidding,

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<v Speaker 1>like you said, of course they did.

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<v Speaker 2>Well. The other thing was that this eyes of the

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<v Speaker 2>effect is ridiculous. It's like laughable, right, So let's let's

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<v Speaker 2>figure let's let's put into real context what they're saying.

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<v Speaker 2>So an eight hour eating windows, so say you eat

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<v Speaker 2>breakfast at nine am and you eat dinner at five pm. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>that's what they're considering so dangerous for you that you're

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<v Speaker 2>going to raise your risk of heart disease. That is,

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<v Speaker 2>that is more powerful than any other risk factor we

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<v Speaker 2>know about, short of smoking. So it's worse than diabetes.

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<v Speaker 2>It's worse than not exorc say, it's worse than being overweight.

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<v Speaker 2>It's worse than you know, living next to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>power lines. It is worse than taking all kinds of carcinogens.

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<v Speaker 2>So this thing where you eat at nine am and

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<v Speaker 2>eat at five to five pm, which is not that bad,

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<v Speaker 2>is this horrible, horrible risk factor that somehow, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>evaded us. And you have to realize that fasting is

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<v Speaker 2>not a new idea. Okay, people have been fasting for

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<v Speaker 2>thousands of years, right, so if there was a problem

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<v Speaker 2>with fasting, we probably should have known about it. And

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<v Speaker 2>the other thing is that in the same study they

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<v Speaker 2>showed that if you fast for eight to ten hours,

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<v Speaker 2>that is, say you eat breakfast at nine am and

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<v Speaker 2>dinner at seven pm, your risk of heart disease went

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<v Speaker 2>up by sixty one percent, sixty six percent. That's ridiculous,

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<v Speaker 2>Like that's called every single person in the nineteen seventies eight,

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<v Speaker 2>like they didn't eat snacks after dinner, so they might

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<v Speaker 2>eat at nine am to seven pm. That's just a

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<v Speaker 2>normal day. Literally millions of people did that. The thing

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<v Speaker 2>is that it's click baity, right, so of course it

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<v Speaker 2>got in the newspaper and so on. And what bothers

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<v Speaker 2>me is that then these sort of elementary mistakes where

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<v Speaker 2>people are interpreting a study. You know, basically they're saying

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<v Speaker 2>the equivalent of get botox. You know, they'll save your life, right,

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<v Speaker 2>It's like, no, it won't. Just getting you rid of

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<v Speaker 2>your wrinkles doesn't do anything for your buy your hair,

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<v Speaker 2>it'll save your life. It won't. So they're making this

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<v Speaker 2>sort of elementary mistake, but they're scaring people. It's fear mongering.

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<v Speaker 2>It's scare mongering from people away who from something that

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<v Speaker 2>could potentially help them. I'm not saying it's the right

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<v Speaker 2>answer for everybody, but clearly some people have benefited tremendously

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<v Speaker 2>from doing intermitt and fasting, and those people might get

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<v Speaker 2>scared away and therefore actually be harmed from this sort

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<v Speaker 2>of awful sort of interpretation mistake, sort of basic elementary

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<v Speaker 2>mistake of correlation and causation.

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<v Speaker 1>You bring up something you know very smart. Before you

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<v Speaker 1>start any major diet, any major change, talk to your physician,

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<v Speaker 1>make sure you talk to the experts that people that

0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.240
<v Speaker 1>you deal with for your health and you you're well being.

0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.680
<v Speaker 1>But so we debunk this thing as BS and I agree,

0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.040
<v Speaker 1>the more I dove into it. I found it laughable

0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:03.720
<v Speaker 1>and I'm not a doctor at all, but I did

0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:08.280
<v Speaker 1>play one on TV. No I didn't. So now that

0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:12.680
<v Speaker 1>we know this is BS, we believe intermittent fasting is

0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.680
<v Speaker 1>a good thing. What do you see are the major

0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:17.280
<v Speaker 1>benefits of fasting?

0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think that there's a lot, and especially in

0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.840
<v Speaker 2>this day and age where we're really a lot of

0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:27.160
<v Speaker 2>people suffering from being overweight and type two diabetes. So

0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:30.000
<v Speaker 2>type two diabetes is of course a huge risk future

0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.520
<v Speaker 2>for all kinds of heart disease and cancer. Nobody debates that.

0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:37.640
<v Speaker 2>But the thing is that if you do intermitted fasting,

0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:39.960
<v Speaker 2>some people will be helped because obviously, if you don't eat,

0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:42.920
<v Speaker 2>your body will burn off some of that glucose, and

0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.080
<v Speaker 2>if it burns off the glucose, then your blood glucose

0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:47.920
<v Speaker 2>goes down and you don't need the medications or you

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.400
<v Speaker 2>can even completely reverse your type two diabetes. So the

0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.720
<v Speaker 2>idea is very simple. Intermint fasting is not heard to understand.

0:13:55.080 --> 0:14:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Your body can store food energy, which is calories. Right, eat,

0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.160
<v Speaker 2>You're going to store calories. That's what you do. It's

0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.360
<v Speaker 2>a good thing you can otherwise you die in your

0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:09.199
<v Speaker 2>sleep every single night. Right, We're not like moles you

0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.240
<v Speaker 2>have to eat like every one hour or they die

0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:14.680
<v Speaker 2>sort of thing. We can store energy. So your body

0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.640
<v Speaker 2>stores energy, and it stores it in the form of sugar,

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.200
<v Speaker 2>which is glucose and fat body fat. Right, that's what

0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:25.479
<v Speaker 2>it's there for. When you don't eat, that is fasting.

0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:28.480
<v Speaker 2>That's the time that your body now says, oh, I'm

0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:31.400
<v Speaker 2>going to take those calories that I store and pull

0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.120
<v Speaker 2>them out of storage, because that's the logical thing to do.

0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.640
<v Speaker 2>That's all it is. That's all fasting is you store

0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.720
<v Speaker 2>energy like body fat for a reason. It's not there

0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.160
<v Speaker 2>for looks. It's there for you as a source of

0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:49.800
<v Speaker 2>energy when you don't eat. If you never fast, if

0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:53.960
<v Speaker 2>you never don't eat, how do you expect to burn

0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:58.080
<v Speaker 2>that body fat or that blood glucose. You can't. It's

0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:02.000
<v Speaker 2>actually impossible because if you're eating, you're telling your body

0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.160
<v Speaker 2>to store energy. It's only when you don't eat that

0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.720
<v Speaker 2>you use the energy. In other words, if you're eating

0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.320
<v Speaker 2>all the time, which is the big fad you know

0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:15.560
<v Speaker 2>in this eighties, nineties, two thousands, well you're not giving

0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:19.880
<v Speaker 2>your body a chance to burn it. So of course

0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.040
<v Speaker 2>you're gonna of course you're going to gain weight, right,

0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.160
<v Speaker 2>there's no other way. So if you want to lose weight,

0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 2>all you have to do is to extend the period

0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:28.840
<v Speaker 2>to give your body a break from the eating and

0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.320
<v Speaker 2>let your body burn off what you store. And it's

0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.760
<v Speaker 2>completely natural. There's nothing wrong with it. Our bodies have adaptmed.

0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.840
<v Speaker 2>That is, if you think back to cave men cave women,

0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.760
<v Speaker 2>it's winter, there's nothing to eat. Well, when we have

0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.800
<v Speaker 2>all died by now, if fasting was really this bad

0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.200
<v Speaker 2>for you, right, our bodies like why do we think

0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:53.280
<v Speaker 2>our bodies are so incredibly stupid that we have to

0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:56.720
<v Speaker 2>like figure out Look at the watch. Right, as a caveman,

0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:58.240
<v Speaker 2>you don't have a watch, but you're going to figure

0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:00.680
<v Speaker 2>out that you need to start stuffing them up, which

0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.360
<v Speaker 2>you don't have. Of course, you have to go hunt,

0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, a beaver or something to get food because otherwise,

0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.880
<v Speaker 2>if you don't eat, you're gonna die. It's like, uh no,

0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.480
<v Speaker 2>your body has started away. That's the entire point. It's

0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:16.680
<v Speaker 2>part of a natural cycle of feeding and fasting. That's

0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.760
<v Speaker 2>all it is. That's why we have the word break fast.

0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.560
<v Speaker 2>It's the meal that breaks your fast, but you can't

0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:25.600
<v Speaker 2>break it if you're not fasting. So the whole point

0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.560
<v Speaker 2>is that fasting is not a fat like everybody says

0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:30.680
<v Speaker 2>it's this big fat. It's like it's been around for

0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.920
<v Speaker 2>thousands of years. It's mentioned in every major religious text,

0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:36.800
<v Speaker 2>so we know that people have been doing it for

0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:43.240
<v Speaker 2>two three thousand years. And in that time, where people

0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:47.000
<v Speaker 2>have talked about fasting, it's always in a healthy connotation.

0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:50.760
<v Speaker 2>That is, they talk about it as a detox or

0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:55.080
<v Speaker 2>a clensing or a purification or something like that. So

0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:59.160
<v Speaker 2>the whole thing is that everybody thought fasting was really

0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:01.520
<v Speaker 2>good for you, and then until the eighties and then

0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:04.879
<v Speaker 2>they thought it was really bad for you. But you know,

0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.959
<v Speaker 2>it's really just part of this natural cycle. Feeding all

0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.240
<v Speaker 2>the times bad, Fasting all the time is bad.

0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:15.000
<v Speaker 1>It's a balance, Doctor fun. Thank you. I think we

0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:19.639
<v Speaker 1>have officially debunked this clickbait headline, which is important and

0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.639
<v Speaker 1>I truly appreciate your wisdom, your knowledge. The Complete Guide

0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.280
<v Speaker 1>to fasting just one of your books, by the way,

0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.920
<v Speaker 1>the obesity Code, the Diabetes Code, and then there are

0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.919
<v Speaker 1>the cookbooks for those books. And I saw I was

0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:35.679
<v Speaker 1>reading up and by the way, I also learned a

0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.760
<v Speaker 1>new term today. Maybe I'm a complete idiot, which is

0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:43.919
<v Speaker 1>probably true. You're a nephrologist, which is a specializing in

0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.119
<v Speaker 1>kidneys and the renal glands, So there you go. I

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:53.040
<v Speaker 1>also learned something today about nephrology. Perfect, but doctor, thank

0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.080
<v Speaker 1>you so much for your knowledge. Truly appreciate it.

0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:56.280
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much.

0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:59.320
<v Speaker 1>My thanks to doctor Fun and for all of you

0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.400
<v Speaker 1>for tuning in. And we will do it again next

0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:03.520
<v Speaker 1>time because we have a lot more to talk about.

0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most

0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:09.040
<v Speaker 1>Dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a

0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.719
<v Speaker 1>review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you

0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:12.160
<v Speaker 1>next time.