Speaker 1: Hey, I do Part two.
Speaker 2: It's your celebrity mentor, Susan Oles, and I'm here in
Speaker 2: Tahoe with some of my favorite Bachelor Nation alum Joan,
Speaker 2: Kathy and Cindy. We are all in our chapter two.
Speaker 2: Let's dive into this world a bit because we all
Speaker 2: have a lot of advice and experience to share.
Speaker 3: We do, we do, we a lot of age, but
Speaker 3: we also experience it goes with it.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you guys, what has been the biggest
Speaker 2: change that you've seen in yourselves.
Speaker 1: In chapter two?
Speaker 4: No, that's a big question.
Speaker 5: The biggest change I think for me is the freedom
Speaker 5: to reimagine what my life can look like and to
Speaker 5: let go of what other people's expectations are, to what
Speaker 5: my kids expectations are, my friends, everyone, and just to
Speaker 5: find the.
Speaker 4: Life that I want to live.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think for me, my chapter two looks a
Speaker 6: little differently because I'm not divorced. I'm widowed, and sudden
Speaker 6: widowhood changes your life in a different kind of way.
Speaker 6: But for me, I so appreciate nature and I allow
Speaker 6: myself now. What were Joan and I were just talking
Speaker 6: about this that we allow ourselves now to I sit
Speaker 6: on my back porch with a book, and I imagine
Speaker 6: my life that that's a complete life. Enjoin a book
Speaker 6: with a cup of coffee, looking out at the birds,
Speaker 6: looking out at my trees in my backyard, knowing that
Speaker 6: whatever I feel like doing that day, it's enough. I
Speaker 6: don't have to answer to my children or be a
Speaker 6: certain way for my kids. But I think the only
Speaker 6: other difference for me is my parents were divorced when
Speaker 6: I was very young, so I had the security ripped
Speaker 6: out from underneath me, and my whole life was feeling insecure.
Speaker 6: In time met my husband and then I had this
Speaker 6: very secure life. So when I became single suddenly, I
Speaker 6: never wanted my kids to feel that insecurity because their
Speaker 6: dad was gone, even though they were grown adults. So
Speaker 6: you know, my chapter two is looking a little different
Speaker 6: in that way. Yeah, what about you, John.
Speaker 3: I feel like, like like you said, when you become
Speaker 3: a widow, it's your the future that you had planned
Speaker 3: is all of a sudden, a blank slate and the
Speaker 3: like letting go of what you imagined your future would
Speaker 3: look like with the person that you were going to
Speaker 3: do it with that you you know, is your life partner,
Speaker 3: is really hard, and that takes like a lot of
Speaker 3: growth and a lot of reflection and like, how am
Speaker 3: I going to now create this life for myself? And
Speaker 3: I found like that I was stronger than I thought,
Speaker 3: and it took a while, it took several years, but
Speaker 3: like I embraced being a single parent that even though
Speaker 3: my kids aren't little anymore, they need me as much
Speaker 3: as they ever did, and the things that they need
Speaker 3: me for are way more important. So I had to
Speaker 3: be stronger than I ever was. I had to reimagine
Speaker 3: what my future was going to look like. And that's
Speaker 3: still like a work in progress. I'm still like figuring
Speaker 3: that out, but I don't have to have that like perfect,
Speaker 3: this is what I'm going to do for the next
Speaker 3: twenty years. I'm okay with not knowing when I'm moving
Speaker 3: for the next twenty years. And that used to make
Speaker 3: me very uncomfortable and now I'm very comfortable with it.
Speaker 6: Well, I was just going to say, Susan, the three
Speaker 6: of us, Sindy, you don't have grandchildren yet, but the
Speaker 6: three of us have grandchildren, and that's something also that
Speaker 6: how I imagine being a grandmother and the grandparenting, how that
Speaker 6: was going to be all the things who were going
Speaker 6: to do as a family.
Speaker 2: And I love the fact that you said you take
Speaker 2: the time to appreciate the moment, the saying the smell
Speaker 2: the roses, right, do the coffee, because we didn't have time.
Speaker 2: We didn't The biggest change that I saw in myself,
Speaker 2: I've always been a giver, a provider, take care of
Speaker 2: the kids, if I mean, now it's about me, and
Speaker 2: it feels amazing because it's time for me. I still
Speaker 2: would do for people, but taking that moment, like you said,
Speaker 2: and sitting there and just watching nature like today out
Speaker 2: on the lake. Yeah, we were on that boat and
Speaker 2: we were taking it all in and we all had
Speaker 2: a moment just by ourselves, just looking thinking how blessed
Speaker 2: are we?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think Cindy, your kids when you got divorced.
Speaker 6: I'm not sure how old your kids were. But your
Speaker 6: chapter two again is you're you're not quite as far
Speaker 6: along as we are, only because you know.
Speaker 5: I'm seven years, seven years into that chapter two.
Speaker 1: The part of it is.
Speaker 5: COVID so erased a couple of them, because those don't
Speaker 5: account for anybody. But no, I knew that my marriage
Speaker 5: was over three years before I filed, So it's really
Speaker 5: been a decade for me.
Speaker 4: And I waited.
Speaker 5: I wanted to wait till all my kids were out
Speaker 5: of the house. They're they're really close in age. And
Speaker 5: my therapist actually said, why would you wait until your
Speaker 5: daughter goes to college where she knows nobody, she has
Speaker 5: no support system, and then make this change in her life.
Speaker 5: So he really encouraged me to do it earlier than
Speaker 5: I was thinking.
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you could say you appreciate more
Speaker 2: now than you did in your marriage.
Speaker 4: Oh, that's such a deep question.
Speaker 5: The relationship that I had with my girls was so
Speaker 5: different after I filed. There was a lot of blame
Speaker 5: that came back to me that you know, I was
Speaker 5: kind of surprised that they go through but I did.
Speaker 5: I did nothing except file.
Speaker 6: But but see, that's that's what I'm saying is when
Speaker 6: we were all married, yeah, our life, we had made
Speaker 6: our lives taking care of our children, our husbands. Even
Speaker 6: if you worked outside the home, it fell to us.
Speaker 6: And so so when you get divorced, you're right, or
Speaker 6: you lose a spouse. Our children look at us differently.
Speaker 6: They look at their.
Speaker 2: The blame game too, I'm sure. Yeah, for sure like,
Speaker 2: especially in your case, your kids probably had moments because
Speaker 2: they're trying to figure out the divorce, the blame game.
Speaker 2: Your husband was sick, so that's totally different.
Speaker 6: Right, But don't you think when when you're married and
Speaker 6: then all of a sudden, for most of us, our
Speaker 6: children didn't need us in the same way.
Speaker 1: So we were ripe for change, if you will.
Speaker 6: The things that we had done didn't need to We
Speaker 6: weren't girls scout lead anymore.
Speaker 1: We weren't room mothers.
Speaker 6: Our kids pretty much were finishing college, you know, they
Speaker 6: were getting ready to launch their own lives. And for
Speaker 6: I will be honest, for me, that was scary to
Speaker 6: start it so suddenly and realize that, for example, I
Speaker 6: could lie in bed and read a book, where before
Speaker 6: I love to read, but before I would seal minutes
Speaker 6: I would feel guilty because you know, I really should
Speaker 6: be doing this for my husband, running that era and
Speaker 6: doing this. And now all of a sudden, I can
Speaker 6: lay in bed and read for.
Speaker 1: Two because you're not raising kids anymore, they were done,
Speaker 1: and I also don't have a spouse.
Speaker 6: So for me, that the change of as you said, Susan,
Speaker 6: being able to focus on yourself I had a lot
Speaker 6: of guilt. I'm not supposed to be doing this initially,
Speaker 6: I'm not supposed to be lying in bed at ten
Speaker 6: in the morning and reading a book with a cup
Speaker 6: of coffee.
Speaker 1: It was hard for me. Maybe why did you feel
Speaker 1: that way?
Speaker 3: I feel the same way because I don't feel that way.
Speaker 1: I'm feel guilty. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I feel like I should be doing something. Like all
Speaker 3: my kids live close to me, and they know. Three
Speaker 3: of my four kids have a grand someone live with me.
Speaker 3: Three of my kids have, you know, children, So I
Speaker 3: feel like they're so busy and I should be helping them,
Speaker 3: like I. You know, there's this idea of as you
Speaker 3: get older, and like I think we are the first
Speaker 3: generation that's kind of bucking this idea because our parents
Speaker 3: brought into it, brought into it that we're supposed to
Speaker 3: be like the supporting role now as you get older
Speaker 3: and our careers are less important, that we should now
Speaker 3: be lending our time to our kids.
Speaker 4: I still have that mindset.
Speaker 3: Even though it's not true. I don't think that our
Speaker 3: generation is buying into that. We're working for longer financially,
Speaker 3: A lot of people have to we are living bigger
Speaker 3: lives because we are healthier. So I don't think that
Speaker 3: we have to buy into that mindset, but I think
Speaker 3: it's in my head already because it's what my parents
Speaker 3: did and we are. We are the generation is going
Speaker 3: to break that. Our kids probably won't feel like I
Speaker 3: do or like you do now, but.
Speaker 1: I know they're nothing like us. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I heard something you said recently that I was really
Speaker 5: impacted by.
Speaker 1: Joan.
Speaker 5: You said that as your kids get older, your role
Speaker 5: in their life diminishes, and so we almost have to
Speaker 5: step into our lives we do so that we are
Speaker 5: not you. I think you said burden, and I know
Speaker 5: that it means different things, but I loved what you
Speaker 5: said because it for my kids. Even if I go
Speaker 5: to visit one of my daughters who lives out of
Speaker 5: town and I'm there for a week, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 5: they would never tell me, but it is kind of
Speaker 5: a burden I disrupt your schedule.
Speaker 4: Then you're right, I know.
Speaker 3: Well I did say and I said that statement when
Speaker 3: my kids were not thrilled that I was going on
Speaker 3: the Golden Bachelor, and they kind of bucked me a
Speaker 3: little bit. Two of them were okay, two of them
Speaker 3: are like, why are you doing this.
Speaker 1: This is stupid.
Speaker 3: And I said, you don't understand what's going to happen
Speaker 3: in the next like five or ten years. I said,
Speaker 3: your lives are going to become bigger. You're going to
Speaker 3: you know you my kids have all gotten married in
Speaker 3: the last life five years and there, I said, And
Speaker 3: you're gonna have kids, and you're gonna have a different
Speaker 3: friend group, and you're gonna be going on vacations with
Speaker 3: these other friends. You're gonna have neighbors, you're gonna have
Speaker 3: your You're a group of people is growing. Your world
Speaker 3: is getting bigger. I said, mine will diminish. I said,
Speaker 3: and you guys are going to think that I'm a
Speaker 3: burden on you. You're gonna be like, who's you know, We're
Speaker 3: gonna go on vacation, Who's taking mom?
Speaker 4: Who's going to see moms?
Speaker 3: Like did you have to last time you had mom
Speaker 3: over for dinner or whatever. I go, I'm doing you
Speaker 3: a favor. I am finding I'm making life for myself,
Speaker 3: so I'm not a burden on you. Now you don't
Speaker 3: get it yet, but I do.
Speaker 1: I know it's wrong.
Speaker 6: I think that's something all four of us have in common,
Speaker 6: even though some of you are divorced.
Speaker 1: Some of us are widows.
Speaker 6: If I have said it so many times, when when
Speaker 6: you have a sudden when one has a very sudden,
Speaker 6: dramatic change in their life, loss of the spouse, divorced,
Speaker 6: however it happens, you really have to reimagine your life.
Speaker 6: And we are lucky, I think, because I didn't realize
Speaker 6: at the time, you know, I when my husband died,
Speaker 6: I remember, I still do. I spent so much time walking.
Speaker 6: I was at peace when I was walking and looking,
Speaker 6: which sounds crazy, but it just.
Speaker 1: It wasn't having a long time. It was looking.
Speaker 6: Out and and and sort of talking to God and
Speaker 6: looking at trees and birds and things that I'd never
Speaker 6: done before. But you know, for me, the biggest, the
Speaker 6: biggest way that I've moved into this chapter two is
Speaker 6: going on the Golden Bachelor. And and we we they
Speaker 6: gave us that gift. Even though you know, it didn't
Speaker 6: work for all of us the way maybe we wanted it.
Speaker 1: To, there was so much more. We got so much more.
Speaker 6: And for us, I have friends now who are going
Speaker 6: through divorces and they are so lost, and I realized
Speaker 6: that in some ways do it.
Speaker 1: It's crazy to think of it, but doing.
Speaker 6: A show like The Bachelor helped anchor my life and
Speaker 6: helped me move forward.
Speaker 5: It's definitely a statement of avery, like to put yourself
Speaker 5: out there on the show the way that we did
Speaker 5: was I think, out of all of our comfort zones.
Speaker 5: But to be able to stand in our life and
Speaker 5: to say, listen, I'm proud of who I am, where
Speaker 5: I am, and I'm going to go give this a try.
Speaker 5: Why not, let's just go give this a try. It
Speaker 5: was a very brave thing for each and everyone.
Speaker 3: Has it evolved, and I know for us when we
Speaker 3: were when we started filming and we started meeting each other,
Speaker 3: I think we came to know that obviously all of
Speaker 3: us were not going to find love, but we found
Speaker 3: a community. And then we were the example to everybody
Speaker 3: else out there watching the show that if you create
Speaker 3: a community, you can find so much happiness in it.
Speaker 3: The biggest gift we got from this, I mean we
Speaker 3: all got, you know, a community like here we are,
Speaker 3: the four of us are here together, like.
Speaker 1: I have a lot of.
Speaker 6: Couples when you get divorced. I've heard so many of
Speaker 6: my friends say I've lost my friend group.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, A couple. We know that, and we have
Speaker 1: gained That's what I'm saying. We have gained this great community.
Speaker 5: And people who are probably more like us than people
Speaker 5: who might be in relationship or maybe those couples. I know,
Speaker 5: for me, a lot of the friends that I had
Speaker 5: were proximity friends. You know, I might have collected them
Speaker 5: over time from sitting in the bleachers or being at
Speaker 5: the sideline of the soccer. Now I'm looking for alignment
Speaker 5: like we and fun. And I may not love every
Speaker 5: bit of I mean, I love every bit of everyone,
Speaker 5: but you know, you just kind of know what people
Speaker 5: are and there's no judgment. Let's just you know, but
Speaker 5: you can rebuild what that looks.
Speaker 1: Like all of you.
Speaker 2: Is there anything as you were going through heartbreak and
Speaker 2: divorces also have heartbreak, anything that you would tell somebody
Speaker 2: going through a divorce surprisingly that helped you. Is there
Speaker 2: any one thing you can think.
Speaker 3: Of, like I think all of us because we all
Speaker 3: had kids and you had this need to be strong
Speaker 3: and to not implode and not take a day off
Speaker 3: and just keep moving forward. I got a function. I
Speaker 3: got to make sure they're okay. I got to make
Speaker 3: sure I'm a good example to them that we can
Speaker 3: do this, and that we can't just like crawl into
Speaker 3: a hole, but every once in a while, let yourself
Speaker 3: call it in the hole, like to go upstairs. And
Speaker 3: this is what I did about maybe once a month,
Speaker 3: and it got less and less. I do it less
Speaker 3: and less. I still have every well, I have a
Speaker 3: moment that I need to go and hibernate. But allow
Speaker 3: yourself just to feel the grief, feel the gad, feel
Speaker 3: the greef, and you don't have to be strong. And
Speaker 3: I would kind of say that to them, they be like, Oh, Mom,
Speaker 3: isn't answering your phone? I could see the text messages
Speaker 3: A mom doesn't answer your phone?
Speaker 4: Mom, what are you doing?
Speaker 3: Why aren't chanswering your phone? We're trying to call you.
Speaker 3: Are you upstairs? Oh no, are you having one of
Speaker 3: your days? I'm like, yeah, maybe when my days leave
Speaker 3: me alone, but that I need it.
Speaker 5: Sometimes you're gonna either feel it now or feel it later,
Speaker 5: So go ahead and allow you feeling.
Speaker 6: If I said this, and you have to walk through
Speaker 6: the grief to get to the other side.
Speaker 4: And we couldn't have gotten here without going.
Speaker 6: Yeah, to get But I also think that I think
Speaker 6: sometimes we think about how do I get through it,
Speaker 6: like survive today when I've got some friends going through
Speaker 6: divorce right now, and I'm trying to encourage them to
Speaker 6: try things they've never done. Literally, I was one of
Speaker 6: my friends is going through divorce, and I said to her,
Speaker 6: why don't you take They were all physical activities. Why
Speaker 6: don't you take up golf? Why don't you take a
Speaker 6: wine class? Do we have this wine place in my neighbor?
Speaker 6: I said, they take a wine, learn about do something,
Speaker 6: you know, cry, feel, allow yourself to feel the feelings.
Speaker 6: But there's no time like the present to start building
Speaker 6: your future.
Speaker 1: And it's funny.
Speaker 2: I have you girls sitting with me, and it's very
Speaker 2: easy for me to help somebody going through a divorce.
Speaker 1: But when it's your daughter, you know, and I feel
Speaker 1: like I want to cry right now.
Speaker 2: My daughter calls us seven o'clock this morning. You can't
Speaker 2: say the same things to your daughter. What do you
Speaker 2: what do you say well for your daughter? So it's
Speaker 2: okay to feel bad, it's okay to be angry. You're
Speaker 2: going to go through different phases. And my biggest word
Speaker 2: is time. But nobody wants to hear that. And we're
Speaker 2: going through it. And as she lay there and said, Mom,
Speaker 2: even though I hate him right now, but she was
Speaker 2: my best friend. I no longer have somebody next to
Speaker 2: me in bed that I could share my day with,
Speaker 2: or something that pissed me off during the day and
Speaker 2: get it out like I get it.
Speaker 1: But what words do you have for them?
Speaker 4: I love you?
Speaker 6: Yeah, you are a time go through all you are, Cindy.
Speaker 1: What you just said, you're a whole person.
Speaker 5: Without someone else. We spent so much of our time
Speaker 5: looking for the other person to come alongside of us.
Speaker 5: And I'll be darned, they're going to be the luckiest person.
Speaker 5: They're gonna be the luckiest. We have such a fun
Speaker 5: full life.
Speaker 1: We are whole.
Speaker 2: But they look at it like it's but you know.
Speaker 6: What, Susan one thing that you can't say to her now,
Speaker 6: but but maybe it'll bring you some comfort as she
Speaker 6: goes into her chapter two and you know she has
Speaker 6: children to raise and all that sometimes for me anyway,
Speaker 6: these horrible experiences that we've all been through and our
Speaker 6: children go through, that's what gets us the character, the strength,
Speaker 6: the braver that that's when our real character shines and
Speaker 6: we become stronger women. For those things, we learn things
Speaker 6: about ourselves that we wouldn't learn if we didn't have
Speaker 6: these really hard experiences to go through. So in my way,
Speaker 6: in my belief, sometimes I really believe for me this
Speaker 6: chapter two is a gift. It's a horrible way for
Speaker 6: me to have gotten here. And I hope for your
Speaker 6: daughter that she will get there and realize that it
Speaker 6: was a gift, because she's going to come out of
Speaker 6: it stronger.
Speaker 3: I gave my son. He had a really really bad
Speaker 3: jet ski accident and he like almost chopped his leg
Speaker 3: off and it broke his hip and his knee and
Speaker 3: all this. Anyway, well, he was recovering. He was really struggling,
Speaker 3: and I found a sign and I just put in
Speaker 3: his room and it said, smooth waters never make a
Speaker 3: skilled sailor.
Speaker 1: There, you're so true.
Speaker 3: You do not get these life skills without going through
Speaker 3: some sh and that's what life is like, what we
Speaker 3: learned from So like this is her. Perhaps she's become
Speaker 3: she'll become a skilled tailor. It's going to take some time.
Speaker 2: And for me, when I was going through heartbreak, what
Speaker 2: I think surprised that helped me is when I got
Speaker 2: to help somebody else and forgot about my own I
Speaker 2: wasn't dwelling in my own sorrow who they were.
Speaker 1: Unless selfish chapter, Your.
Speaker 5: Daughter is going to see you differently. She will look back,
Speaker 5: well what I feel, give an example that you will
Speaker 5: give her, and you already gave her. She will see
Speaker 5: what you went through as you dissolved your marriage and
Speaker 5: how strong you were and how you've rebuilt your life.
Speaker 4: So it's just such a sure it will be a beautiful.
Speaker 5: Bonding moment for the two of you as well.
Speaker 3: I also think that you know, we live in a
Speaker 3: world of couples, and to uncouple is really hard for
Speaker 3: her because she probably loses and we all did, and
Speaker 3: I know we all did because I've talked to you
Speaker 3: all about it. You lose your couple of friends because
Speaker 3: now you're a single and they don't invite you to things.
Speaker 3: The holes don't invite singles to things, especially if you're
Speaker 3: attractive women.
Speaker 1: Or they invite one and not the other.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so you're divided, and so I'm sure she's
Speaker 3: going to go through that. So, like my best advice
Speaker 3: to her would be find someone else going through a
Speaker 3: divorce and like laugh about it, cry about it.
Speaker 1: And talk to them about it and then have.
Speaker 3: A wingman, somebody that's going to go out with you
Speaker 3: as other couple of the other half of you.
Speaker 6: So so I have a question because this maybe is
Speaker 6: something that she could think about. What, even though our
Speaker 6: kids are older, what did we do well? I think
Speaker 6: about that, What did I do well even though my
Speaker 6: kids are grown? As I hate saying that I'm a
Speaker 6: single parent. What things have I taught my children since
Speaker 6: I've been a single parent.
Speaker 2: And it's funny, Kathy, because I was upset, but I
Speaker 2: thought you were tougher than this. I trained you to
Speaker 2: do this or this. My daughter, Yeah, she's not showing strength.
Speaker 1: She was weak.
Speaker 2: She was the victim. And I think that's just a
Speaker 2: phase that she had to go through, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: and then get stronger. But what we've done for our kids,
Speaker 2: we raised them and we taught them values.
Speaker 6: Yeah, But as a single parent, I'm saying now, like
Speaker 6: I think I've taught my children some really important lessons
Speaker 6: since I've been single And the biggest one is there's
Speaker 6: nothing you can't overcome. There's nothing you can't overcome if
Speaker 6: you work at it. That I'm showing them that I
Speaker 6: don't need a man to live a happy, full life.
Speaker 6: Get the get the toilet repaired, you know, from from
Speaker 6: literally soup to nuts. And I think, I think that
Speaker 6: that is something that our children should all learn, whether
Speaker 6: they're single or married, now that they don't need a
Speaker 6: man in their life.
Speaker 1: That none of us need anybody.
Speaker 6: But I think, but I think our children when I
Speaker 6: was married, I was married very young, the thought of
Speaker 6: being on my own. I think now I've done a
Speaker 6: really good job of showing my kids, Hey, kids, I
Speaker 6: was married very young, and you know, you're dad took
Speaker 6: care of so much in this traditional family. And now
Speaker 6: my kids look at me and they've said, mom, you
Speaker 6: are so strong, grave and so strong, and that makes
Speaker 6: me What I didn't do well, I think was completely
Speaker 6: fell apart when their dad died as a single parent.
Speaker 1: What do you mean you didn't do that. I couldn't
Speaker 1: function show enough.
Speaker 6: I couldn't function because I didn't have time to prepare
Speaker 6: for anything. And so that I was I at that.
Speaker 6: I'm just saying, well, I'm not saying it's not understandable.
Speaker 6: I'm saying I wish that I could have. I needed
Speaker 6: to crawl in that hole. But you were talking about Joan.
Speaker 6: I wish I could have crawled in in frozen time.
Speaker 6: Just give me six months to you know, work with this,
Speaker 6: and then I can come back and be a really
Speaker 6: good parent. And now now I'm I've come back and
Speaker 6: I'm the I'm the good grandparent and I'm there for
Speaker 6: my kids. But I I didn't show my best side.
Speaker 1: We're gonna shift just the little bit. I don't want
Speaker 1: to know. Did anybody else do something.
Speaker 5: I still have struggles, and I think my kids are
Speaker 5: so excited about the life that I've rebuilt, but there
Speaker 5: are parts of me that still wish I had somebody
Speaker 5: to be with. And I've got three daughters and I
Speaker 5: would rather them not see how important another person in
Speaker 5: my life.
Speaker 4: Is to me.
Speaker 1: How were your children when you.
Speaker 5: My youngest was a senior in high school and the
Speaker 5: other two were in college older.
Speaker 2: They weren't babies and your children when your husband passed, right,
Speaker 2: they were adults?
Speaker 6: Yes, but it's still there. We wait, Candya, you just
Speaker 6: said something. You said that you don't want your girls
Speaker 6: to see that you need a man.
Speaker 1: Did I hear you correctly?
Speaker 4: Need a man?
Speaker 1: Of it?
Speaker 5: I really, my heart, my heart's desire is still to
Speaker 5: have to find my ads. It still is not like
Speaker 5: I feel incomplete, but you know, you talked to me
Speaker 5: a lot. I really would love to find my partner.
Speaker 5: And for my three daughters, two of them are married
Speaker 5: and I'm so glad they found someone, and my youngest
Speaker 5: one is still single. But I don't know that I've
Speaker 5: done a great job of showing them clearly, I'm standing
Speaker 5: on my own, but I still wish I had someone.
Speaker 5: I did it, okay, you you have.
Speaker 3: A lot of love to give and you want to
Speaker 3: give it, so that's a good thing.
Speaker 6: But I.
Speaker 4: Think though.
Speaker 3: That, like so, we all had the choice that we
Speaker 3: could kind of choose this, you know, kind of mediocre
Speaker 3: life and we could not be happy, but we chose happiness.
Speaker 3: And I think that is a really good example. And
Speaker 3: we didn't wait for it to happen to happen to us.
Speaker 3: We didn't expect somebody else to bring us happiness. We
Speaker 3: went out and found.
Speaker 1: It, and we were hard.
Speaker 3: Like you said, we put ourselves out there in a
Speaker 3: scary way. And like I think people listening to this
Speaker 3: podcast are going to say, well, I don't have that opportunity,
Speaker 3: but do something choose happiness.
Speaker 1: It's the only thing. It's when you.
Speaker 3: You're the only person that's responsible for your own happiness.
Speaker 6: Yes, but I don't even have to get up. We
Speaker 6: are right, Absolutely, You're right. People might say that, but
Speaker 6: you don't have to apply and go on the Bachelor
Speaker 6: or Love Island or anything else. You can get up,
Speaker 6: and you can. I've never taken a stand up paddle
Speaker 6: board lesson, you know I'm going to do that today.
Speaker 6: Or I've never learned to pay play bridge or magen.
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, if you can say I haven't
Speaker 6: been to the gym in thirty years, but you know what,
Speaker 6: I'm going to go and take one class. I think
Speaker 6: it's it's that's what I want to see women.
Speaker 1: We were lucky.
Speaker 6: But I think our lesson is empowering others feeling they
Speaker 6: can do it.
Speaker 1: We did it. You gave us.
Speaker 2: Is this ability to share that with people struggling out
Speaker 2: there right now that don't have that possibility and hearing
Speaker 2: us say things gives them motivation.
Speaker 5: The show did support us coming through this, and so
Speaker 5: it is absolutely for us to share with others.
Speaker 4: Dial yourself up.
Speaker 5: You know, we've dimmed our lights over time, and partly
Speaker 5: because we love our kids. We diminished our light to
Speaker 5: spread with them and you know, dial it back up.
Speaker 3: We are exactly. I said that when I came off
Speaker 3: with loldon Bachelor. I said, as you get older, you
Speaker 3: become more invisible. Don't accept that. And I had accepted it,
Speaker 3: and I was like, you know, I'll walk up to
Speaker 3: a host to stand and there'll be other people standing around,
Speaker 3: and the hostess will ask every other young person or
Speaker 3: you know, guy in a suit or whatever before they say,
Speaker 3: you know, do you want a table?
Speaker 1: You don't allow that to happen.
Speaker 3: You don't have to be in business.
Speaker 6: That's that's what I hope people hear it is. I
Speaker 6: don't care what your chapter two looks like. I don't
Speaker 6: care how you got there. I mean I care everybody
Speaker 6: gets there, but everybody has it up yourself, and I
Speaker 6: don't know you cheated.
Speaker 3: On, it'll be important.
Speaker 1: I think that's really hard.
Speaker 2: You just mentioned that because for anyone listening right now,
Speaker 2: and they keep attracting men that cheat on, oh gosh,
Speaker 2: what advice can we give them?
Speaker 1: What advice? And anybody here been cheated on before? Have
Speaker 1: you ever been cheated?
Speaker 5: Of course, not many, I can tell you that's not
Speaker 5: very many times, because you know I tend to have
Speaker 5: a nose for it.
Speaker 1: Yes, you're no, you should keep attracting the same kind
Speaker 1: of men. What advice would you give them?
Speaker 4: You should look at yourself.
Speaker 3: I agree with you.
Speaker 5: A relationship, and relationship is a mirror, no matter if
Speaker 5: it's a healthy one, and I love the idea of
Speaker 5: mirroring for my significant other some things that they do
Speaker 5: great and some things that they can do better. But
Speaker 5: it's also a mirror if that relationship falls apart. So
Speaker 5: it's not just that they're cheating.
Speaker 1: Sounds a little.
Speaker 2: Double standard to me because if they're not choosing that person.
Speaker 1: To cheat on them, but how were that will do it?
Speaker 5: So what is it about me that keeps tracking, that
Speaker 5: keeps attracting, that it keeps accepting it? Typically, in my
Speaker 5: opinion my friends who also have gone through a lot
Speaker 5: more than me, it's typically that you don't feel worthy,
Speaker 5: that's not having someone's entire attention and love.
Speaker 6: And you will create a narrative you will go to
Speaker 6: I mean, I've never been cheated on, it's subconscious, but
Speaker 6: you don't do worthy, so you create a narrative that
Speaker 6: supports your unworthiness. So this is all I deserve and
Speaker 6: then it just feeds on itself and so I you know,
Speaker 6: my thing I always say is you keep doing what
Speaker 6: you've been doing, You're going to keep getting what you've
Speaker 6: been getting. So you really, I think, have to look
Speaker 6: at who you are as a person. What do you do,
Speaker 6: what do you put up with when you go on
Speaker 6: a date? What what red flags do you see? And
Speaker 6: then you say, you.
Speaker 2: Know the old I can change of miss talking about
Speaker 2: me right now because I still haven't seen that flag.
Speaker 1: I got color blind.
Speaker 4: They I think they're there.
Speaker 3: There is and I'm thinking kind of a little bit
Speaker 3: of the younger generation, maybe not our generation, that you
Speaker 3: have to show them that you are valuable, that your
Speaker 3: that your love and that your.
Speaker 1: Respect, your work.
Speaker 3: They have to earn it and that it's valuable. And
Speaker 3: I think so much of a relationship a loted for
Speaker 3: the younger people's physical and they allow a physical relationship
Speaker 3: before they have the respect that they should demand.
Speaker 1: And there's so many options, so many. Did you feel
Speaker 1: that way when you were young?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I felt like you need to show them
Speaker 3: that you have value that you just don't.
Speaker 6: I think that transcends age. I was very very young,
Speaker 6: but I happened to choose the guy that had so
Speaker 6: much integrity.
Speaker 1: It was ridiculous. I I lucked down. I did.
Speaker 6: But I do think cheaters are out there, and I think,
Speaker 6: by the way, not just men cheat women just and
Speaker 6: I think the damage that that does to the individual,
Speaker 6: that takes even more work, because now you don't trust,
Speaker 6: you don't believe.
Speaker 1: I must not have been good enough. He cheated on me?
Speaker 1: What's wrong with him?
Speaker 3: And when they should be now building themselves up, they're
Speaker 3: being torn down time and time again, and it becomes
Speaker 3: a there's aus circle.
Speaker 4: Do you think once a cheater, always a cheater.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think so think some people can learn from it.
Speaker 2: How about could you accept it from a spouse that
Speaker 2: they made a huge mistake and never do it again?
Speaker 1: You know the promise, that's how they caught up?
Speaker 6: And you can't I think that question people I saw
Speaker 6: all the time. It's it's not one size fits all.
Speaker 6: If I had been married for a year and my
Speaker 6: husband cheated on me, the door would hit.
Speaker 1: His ass so fast.
Speaker 6: But a fifty forty thirty year marriage where you have children,
Speaker 6: I don't know because I wasn't cheated on, But I'm
Speaker 6: going to do some real investigations, some really soul searching
Speaker 6: before I toss his.
Speaker 2: And I think this question is more for Cindy and
Speaker 2: I since we're a divorce. But did you ever fear
Speaker 2: your kids would be damaged or messed up because of it?
Speaker 5: I think of it all the time. I actually had
Speaker 5: a conversation with one of my daughters this last week
Speaker 5: because I still have feelings about my divorce and my
Speaker 5: ex husband. I have feelings, and my best friends are
Speaker 5: my kids, and if I can't openly share with them,
Speaker 5: then what do I do? And I still know that
Speaker 5: they are affected differently than me. Sure, So how do
Speaker 5: you you know? I couldn't imagine them and any feel
Speaker 5: your feelings.
Speaker 2: Not feeling that fear, you know, just checking in and
Speaker 2: making sure you're not screwing them up. But you also
Speaker 2: don't want to screw up the rest of your life.
Speaker 2: You know it's best for you.
Speaker 1: And also the example that.
Speaker 3: You're setting for them that like, if you accept a
Speaker 3: marriage that is not good and they see that, oh well,
Speaker 3: Mom stayed in the marriage, is that what they're going
Speaker 3: to think? And you don't want them to accept an
Speaker 3: unhoping marriage in their life. So you're being really hard
Speaker 3: on yourself. Yeah, and you should give yourself some grace
Speaker 3: because you actually showed them a really good example that
Speaker 3: they should not accept a bad marriage and that they
Speaker 3: should not do that to themselves.
Speaker 6: And I will say my parents were divorced when I
Speaker 6: was five, and I will tell you as I said,
Speaker 6: that created so much insecurity in my life.
Speaker 2: And that's what we're saying. So you you felt it
Speaker 2: as a while. Oh and I picked well. I picked well.
Speaker 4: I thought I did too.
Speaker 1: I picked I was.
Speaker 5: A child of divorce, and I thought I picked him
Speaker 5: well to avoid that.
Speaker 6: And I got very very young people change. I thought
Speaker 6: I did pick well and I was lucky.
Speaker 1: I don't. I can't give myself very much credit.
Speaker 6: However, I think as a child of divorce, and by
Speaker 6: the way, my parents' divorce was violent. It was a
Speaker 6: horrible divorce, and so I worked that much harder in
Speaker 6: my marriage to make it work. But I do think
Speaker 6: it caused insecurity in me. I think my kids. But
Speaker 6: I had that conversation with my children.
Speaker 2: When you were your parents were going through that divorce,
Speaker 2: and you're during your lowest moments, what did you do?
Speaker 2: How did you pour into yourself during that.
Speaker 1: Time when my parents got divorced.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Susan, I was so afraid I was going to
Speaker 6: get beaten by my mind.
Speaker 1: It was. It was a violent divorce. There was no
Speaker 1: security in my life.
Speaker 6: And that's why I got married too young. I just
Speaker 6: happened to you. I needed safety. I needed I needed
Speaker 6: somebody who I thought would take care of me and
Speaker 6: I and I did.
Speaker 1: I got that.
Speaker 6: But my children always said, oh, Mom, you got married
Speaker 6: when you were twenty years old. And I now they understand,
Speaker 6: they understand why I did, and I don't regret it.
Speaker 6: There are a lot of things I missed, like you
Speaker 6: guys experienced that I didn't. But I and our children,
Speaker 6: my son's divorced and remarried. You know, I think sometimes
Speaker 6: we blame ourselves too much. We give ourselves too much responsibility,
Speaker 6: Like we have to be perfect for our children so
Speaker 6: that they won't get divorced.
Speaker 1: Yeah that doesn't we have nothing to do with that.
Speaker 1: That's they make.
Speaker 2: But let me get another opinion from your ladies. What
Speaker 2: do you think about the rise in gray divorce? And
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, gray divorce much much more happening now than
Speaker 2: it ever did.
Speaker 3: Very interesting.
Speaker 1: I think, wait, there later later in life and they
Speaker 1: call it quits.
Speaker 3: I know, because I think we're living longer and people
Speaker 3: do see a second chapter and they're like, I don't
Speaker 3: have to be with this person that I'm not happy
Speaker 3: with them. Maybe I've done it for sixty years or
Speaker 3: however many years, but like I can stop this vicious circle.
Speaker 3: And I also think that people, as you get older,
Speaker 3: and maybe they didn't have this feeling when they were younger,
Speaker 3: that they are okay being alone. Because if you go
Speaker 3: into this gray chapter thinking that you're going to find
Speaker 3: somebody else, you're probably wrong. You're probably not.
Speaker 4: Going to find somebody else.
Speaker 3: Okay, we all know this, right, But if you go
Speaker 3: into this great chapter and saying, I don't want to
Speaker 3: be with this person I've been with for all these
Speaker 3: years and I'm not really happy with anymore, and I'm
Speaker 3: okay being alone. And I think people are starting to
Speaker 3: realize that there's a community out there and I can
Speaker 3: be alone with a lot of people other.
Speaker 1: People that are alone. I mean, it's okay, it's a
Speaker 1: good group.
Speaker 2: I just want to thank both all three of you
Speaker 2: for all of your opinions, and are you really going
Speaker 2: through it?
Speaker 1: And need some advice.
Speaker 2: Feeling lost in your divorce process, Send us an email
Speaker 2: or leave us a voicemail. All the info is in
Speaker 2: the show notes. Follow us on Socials. I Do Part two,
Speaker 2: an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main
Speaker 2: objective