WEBVTT - Breaking Broke w/ George Kamel #782 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.320 Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt, 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:06.240 and today we're talking Breaking Broke with George Campbell. 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:26.239 That's right. 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:28.920 Yeah, Today we are talking all about getting out of debt, 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:32.400 and it's a good time to have this discussion as well, 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:36.040 since consumer debt, especially credit card debt, it's been on a. 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:38.239 Tear over the past several years. 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.560 Basically since the bottom of the pandemic, and we're lucky 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:43.680 to be joined by someone who knows a thing or 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.840 two about debt. George Cammell. Not only has he personally 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.960 climbed from a negative net worth himself, but he's also 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.880 a personal finance expert over at Ramsey Solutions. George co 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:57.440 hosts The Ramsey Show as well as Smart Money Happy 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:00.280 Hour with our friend Rachel Cruz, and he as a 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:03.680 new book, Breaking Free from Broke, that came out earlier 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.160 this month. We're excited to talk about all of. 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:06.840 That and more today. 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.000 George, thank you for joining us today on the podcast. 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:10.840 Joel Matt, it is such an honor to be here. 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:12.720 I was telling you guys earlier, I've been fans of 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:15.080 y'all's for a long time now, and so I feel 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.480 like I'm inside of the matrix. We're gonna see how 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:18.560 the sausage is really made. 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:18.959 Today. 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:21.400 It's much less impressive as you've seen. 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:25.520 I was impressed, honestly by Matt's hair. I'm already jealous. 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:27.119 Who isn't I are the hair of the closer. 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.039 We stop recording, George and I will exchange nice on 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:31.720 how we get that volume. 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:33.360 It always takes in forty five minutes to get it 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:33.920 like that, George. 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:35.640 So yeah, not all about the hair dryer. 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.080 That's right, not too much time, all right, George. First 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:39.759 question we ask every guest who comes on the show 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:41.640 is what's their craft beer equivalent? And what we mean 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:43.920 by that. Matt and I spend you know, someoneld say 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:45.760 too much money on craft beer, but you know what 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:47.920 we're saving and investing at the same time. So it's 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.120 a okay, what is that thing in your life that 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:52.720 you spend more money on than some people would think 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.040 is normal or right? Oh? 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.480 Man, Well, I consider myself bougie frugal, and so I'm 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:01.120 trying to buy expensive things but get like ten percent 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:03.400 off and feel like I'm winning. And so the thing 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.320 for me that I think people will go you're spending 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:06.720 they spent a lot of money on that, and it's 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.640 mostly my wife, and that is Bourbon. I'm in a 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.880 Bourbon society with some friends, about thirty of us, and 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.240 so I just have too much of it. I don't 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:17.000 even drink it a lot. I just have a lot 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.359 of bottles. There's like a fomo to it when it's 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:21.320 a special bottle, a hard to get bottle. And so 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:23.840 the most I've spent on a bottle is probably about 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:26.480 one hundred and twenty dollars or so, and it hurt 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:27.080 my soul. 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:28.960 But what was that I ask? 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:31.400 Is actually Joe and I with our wives, we went 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.640 up to Bourbon country this time. 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:34.160 Was it last year? 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:36.800 So I was almost exactly a year ago for my 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:38.440 fortieth for a little birthday. 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:39.000 Yeah. 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.239 So what are some of your favorite go tos? Even 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:43.840 though you're not maybe the biggest partaker of. 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.600 Yeah, this particular bottle was a Jack Daniel came out 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:52.239 with a barrel single barrel barrel proof rye that will 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:54.399 knock your socks off, very nice. 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:54.639 Nice. 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:56.840 So that in Blanton's. 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.640 Weller twelve Classics. 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.680 Angels envy rye is another favorite, and so there's a Yeah, 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.600 those are probably the go tos and they can range, 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:07.040 you know, fifty to one hundred bucks, and so that 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:09.720 is something that I splurge on. Ever since I'm not 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:12.200 broken anymore, I've been able to, you know, indulge more. 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:14.120 I have no hobbies, So if that makes you guys 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.400 feel any better, I really don't do it. I hang 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.200 out with my dogs, which are the most expensive part 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:18.679 of all life. 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:19.760 Well that that and whiskey. 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:21.720 And it's no wonder that you drop big money on 0:03:21.760 --> 0:03:24.079 that Tennessee bottle with y'all being there. 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:25.600 Outside of NASHVILLEE. 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:27.760 But oh yeah, okay, George, we want to get to 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:29.639 know you as an individual because we I mean, this 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:31.840 is literally the first time we've ever we've ever talked 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.280 with you, and I'm curious about your money story. You 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.800 are of Middle Eastern descent. Your parents are immigrants, and 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:41.720 it sounds like that they've fully immersed you into like 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.960 the American culture, but simultaneously, like you've talked about how 0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:46.840 you got coupon's with your with your dad, I would 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.920 love to hear about your parents' influence on how it 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.920 is that you see and just what it is that 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:53.960 you believe about money. 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:57.040 Absolutely, yeah, my parents are from Egypt and Syria, and 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:59.560 they moved to the US in the eighties and had 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:01.400 my brother, and then I was born in Boston, and 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:03.880 so I grew up in like a weird little Arabic 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.840 Baptist bubble, so Arabic Baptist church, but in an Irish Italian, 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:10.880 you know, Catholic area of Boston, and so it was 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.920 a really weird time to grow up but also hilariously fun. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:16.400 And my parents they adapted and they fell for some 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:18.560 of these money traps. And they were, you know, we 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.680 were middle class. They worked really hard, we never struggled. 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:23.800 We didn't go without food, it wasn't anything like that. 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:28.360 But they also you know, had we had student loans. 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.160 I fell for some of those traps where I thought 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:32.000 my parents were just wealthy because they were like, well, 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.440 well don't worry about college, we'll figure that out. And 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:36.559 I went, wow, they have some secret money they've been saving. 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.080 This is wonderful. Turns out it was like co signing 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:44.039 loans and subsidized loans through financial aid quote unquote, and 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:45.760 so I sort of felt for these traps. And my 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.200 dad had a you know, forty credit cards that they 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.880 were like maximizing rewards and playing this game but I 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.880 saw those moments of stress where it wasn't fun and 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.880 things were getting tight, and at the same time they 0:04:57.880 --> 0:04:59.719 were very frugal. And that's a I don't know if 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.279 it's a Middle Eastern trade that runs in our DNA, 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:04.520 but we just love a deal. We love to haggle, 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:06.720 we love to negotiate, we love to find the coupon, 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:08.919 and so that has been instilled in me. And I 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.040 love helping people save money on things they really want. 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:14.279 That is the saddest thing to me about American culture 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.240 is that we don't haggle like so many other cultures. 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:18.200 I think it's so fun, Like I love traveling to 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:20.560 other countries and going to the market or something like that, 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.239 and it's expected in so many other places. 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:25.640 Oh yeah, but in the US in America. 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:27.520 Yeah, if the US you asked for a discount and 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.760 they look at you like are you crazy? Like you 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:30.719 can't ask that question. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:34.000 It's not the proper Western European way, Joel exactly. 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:35.039 That's a game to me. 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:37.200 Yeah, We're always trying to push people in that direction, 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.200 like no, no, no, ask for the discount, even though 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.520 some people might think it's uncouth. You can and if. 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.200 You're a nice guy I found, like, you know, three 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:46.799 out of five times, like you're gonna something will happen. 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:49.559 Yeah, exactly, No, I think you're spot on. Uh okay, 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.080 you we're not going to go through like all of 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.280 your life, childhood, middle school or anything like that. Middle 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.039 school everybody knows was the worst, so we don't. 0:05:56.080 --> 0:05:56.920 It was a cold day. 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.000 Yeah, but you let's go, let's skip to kind of 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.240 when you joined the Ramsey team. You didn't start off 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:07.560 as a Ramsey personality. You started off as a marketing intern, 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:09.839 but you also had you had debt when you joined 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.640 the crew there, and so I'm curious what that hiring 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.719 process looks like. You had debt. Are they like, wait 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.680 a second, you're not allowed to work here? Yeah? What 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:21.080 does that look like? What any questions are they asking you? 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:23.240 And are they kind of steering you in the right 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:24.280 direction when you get hired. 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.479 That's a great question. A lot of people assume that, like, 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:28.240 when you start at Ramsey, you got to be debt 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:30.600 free and investing fifteen percent into your wroth four O 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.120 one K. But truthfully, we have people from all backgrounds 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:36.600 and walks of life that apply here, and we look 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.200 for a culture fit and if you're pumped about our 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:42.920 mission and you're actively trying to pay off debt, that's 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:44.960 what really matters. And so you can come in here 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.440 with two hundred thousand dollars of debt. We're not gonna 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:49.400 sit here and judge. We just want you to be 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:51.800 on the plan. And so that I came in not 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.080 knowing much about Dave going. I went through Financial Peace 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.000 University when I started here as part of the onboarding process, 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.840 and that's when I sort of went, oh, crap, I'm 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:02.640 more broke than I thought because it was my first 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:04.680 salary job. You know, I was an intern and so 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:06.680 I didn't even have a full time job here. And 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.080 a few months later the internship ended, I found a 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.720 spot as an email marketing coordinator full time for two 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:14.320 and a half years. That was my first job, and 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.520 it was my first salary job, and I realized, I'm like, 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.280 this entry level starter salary is barely enough to just 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.000 pay my bills because of my debt and my lifestyle. 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.320 And so I had to make some sacrifices and get 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:27.440 some side hustles and start doing a lot of things 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:29.800 to clean this mess up. And that happened in about 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.000 eighteen months, I was able to pay off that forty 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:33.520 thousand dollars in consumer debt. 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:35.960 Wow. Okay, so you said side hustles, what were you doing? 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.720 You driving an Uber? Like you got an Etsy shop 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.240 cause of selling George Campbell Crochet's like, what what were 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:43.000 you doing to make some money? 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:44.960 Well, you know, I was a musician, and so I 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.440 was still doing some music gigs. I got some music 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:51.600 licensing hits, like Ford used my music on our YouTube 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:53.760 channel video they did and I was like, oh my gosh, 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.480 they want They're gonna pay me like thirty five hundred 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:58.800 dollars for this. And on top of that, I was 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:00.680 driving for Uber and Lyft and they were new to 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.280 Nashville at the time, and they had these bonuses. If 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.920 you did this many rides, you'd get a thousand dollars bonus, 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.240 And so I was taking advantage of the Uber and 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.960 Lift sign up bonuses. I was doing marketing consulting, helping 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:16.600 people launch podcasts, build websites, launch books as the marketing guy, 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.040 and so I was using all of the skills I had, 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:21.880 and skills I didn't have to just make any extra 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.000 money I could. I even did the Nielsen People Meter 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:24.880 y'all know about this. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:26.040 How do you do that? 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.760 A little beeper? Well, they just listen. It's really creepy 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.160 now looking back, but you carry around this little beeper 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:33.120 and you turn it on and it's listening to all 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:37.600 of the media. You're consuming music, TV, all of that radio, 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.520 and it's tracking all of that and it's kind of 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:42.719 using me as an example of what other people are 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:44.959 listening to. And so you would get you know, as 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.080 long as you turned it on, you were making a 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:48.559 few cents here and there, and so I'd get a 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:50.840 check for twenty bucks a month or something from Nielsen 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.080 for doing this. But I was just willing to do 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:56.319 whatever it took to make that extra buck and it 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.559 would it paid off. I don't regret it one bit. 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:00.800 I didn't miss out on life, and I was also 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:02.480 surviving off of lean cuisines and. 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.680 Hope George was hustling. Yeah, and I love that because 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:07.880 we talked about that too, like wrapping your car or 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:09.520 something like that. With an advertisement, A lot of people 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.520 would be like, no way, I'm doing that. But for 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.840 the person who really cares, like about paying off their debt, 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.559 about making progress more quickly, you're you're willing to look 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.120 like an idiot sometimes in order to make that happen. Well, 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.760 even with like the media thing, It's like, how intrusive 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:25.959 is that you wrap your car? Everyone can everyone knows 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:28.040 you're what you're getting after it. But if you've got 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.800 something discreet and it's listening to, it's like a fitbit 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.640 but for your ears, for your brain. But it's fascinating 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:38.920 though that you didn't come into the Ramsey orbit knowing 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:43.640 necessarily who Dave was, and like over time that that 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.840 that became more a part of your story and your identity. 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:49.840 But how is it that you went from doing marketing 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.240 and you know, initially starting out as an intern, moving 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.880 to marketing and then ending up being actually in front 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:56.320 of the in front of the camera, in front of 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:56.720 the mic. 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.720 Yeah, that transition was really interesting because I was the 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:01.640 kind of I'm a marketing guy. I was doing social 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:04.280 media and email marketing for my first few jobs here 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.600 at Ramsey for the first i don't know, six years 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.240 of my career. And then I made this transition to 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.200 host an MC for our live events in our video channel, 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.680 and that happened after I went on stage to host 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:16.559 our Battle of the Band's event we do it's an 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:20.080 internal company event. Our team members get together, they form bands, 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:22.360 we do cover songs, and we kind of fight for 0:10:22.440 --> 0:10:25.080 the number one spot. And I was a musician, so 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:26.719 I was in these bands for three years and I 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.240 kept losing till like second and third place, and I 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.320 got sick of it. The hosting was terrible, so I 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:33.199 raised my hand and I went, hey, I think I 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.120 could bring something to the hosting gig to transition between 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.160 the bands and introduce and do all the fun stuff. 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.280 And so they gave me that shot, and I put 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.040 all my whole soul into it with creative videos and 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:47.520 funny parodies and on stage gimmicks and games with the team. 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:49.679 And they saw me on stage and went, hey, this 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.760 guy could backfill for our friend Ken Coleman, who's stepping 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:55.680 into this personality role with this career message. And so 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.480 they gave me a shot, and I did a good 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:00.840 enough job to where they said, all right, you're switching gears. 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:02.760 We're going to put you in this role. And so 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:06.280 that helped me get kind of on front of the 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.560 cameras instead of behind him, which was a dream of 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.040 mine to be a filmmaker. So I always love video 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.000 and broadcasting and all that stuff. I just never thought 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:15.360 I'd be the guy in front of it, and so 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.400 it's been a huge humbling blessing to get to do 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:21.199 what I do now. And following the money plan, they went, 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:23.840 this guy's really passionate about what we teach and he 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.680 has really interesting ways of creating content and connecting with 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.200 new people, and we should give him a shot as 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.360 a personality and see what he can bring to the table. 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:33.280 So that's what happened when I launched The fine Print 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.240 in twenty twenty one, went on air with Ramsey and 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.320 we transitioned to The Ramsey Show from Dave Ramsey Show, 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.319 and we've been co hosting The Ramsey Show now for 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:43.080 a few years. 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.199 There's something really powerful when you've kind of gone through 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:49.080 the process yourself, right, digging yourself out of doing all 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.480 the side hustles, and then you want other people to know, wait, 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.400 this is possible. Like I've lived it. I went through 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.880 years of getting to this point where and now you're 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.200 a millionaire. You host a YouTube show, oh like talking 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.120 to other millionaires in your call the YouTube channel. Yeah, 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:05.439 I mean there's a lot going on on that front. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:08.240 I'm curious. So like The Ramsey Show, in particular, the 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.520 radio show. You've got your finger on the pulse of 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:13.880 kind of what's happening with individuals, what's happening in the economy. 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:15.679 I'm sure just based on the calls you guys get 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.040 on a daily basis, you have a decent understanding of 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:22.439 kind of what's happening in America and what's happening with 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.280 people's finances. How does the show feel right now, specifically 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.000 in January, post holiday spending hangover that so many people 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.800 find themselves in. Is inflation still a topic? Like? What 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:34.520 are people wrestling with right now? Are what are the 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.199 calls you're getting that maybe feel the most compelling or 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:39.040 feel the most indicative of what's going on in our 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:39.880 society right now. 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.800 That's a great question. And I've talked with our other personalities. 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:44.840 We'll get off air and we'll just go talk to 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:46.920 each other and be like, man, do things just feel 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.640 heavier lately? Like the problems are just getting worse and 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.400 people are feeling more and more hopeless. And it's funny 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.200 to me, you know, we'll get comments on Instagram and 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.240 be like, these guys are so out of touch. I'm like, 0:12:57.520 --> 0:13:01.240 we're literally talking to callers like as closely and as 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:04.240 intimately as we can every single day, and so I 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:06.440 feel like I'm more in touch than some dude with 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:11.000 a faceless Instagram profile. But what I'm seeing is people 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:14.520 are underwater on their cars more than ever because cars 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.360 got really expensive and people were just willing to pay. 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:19.920 And then the car market kind of cooled off a 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.080 little bit, and so now the car that they owe 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.720 thirty five on is only worth twenty you bought two 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:28.320 years ago after they reduced price exactly. So that's one 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.719 huge problem. The other one is people got freaked out 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.040 about the housing market and so they jumped you into 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.880 home they couldn't afford. Now they're calling us saying, hey, 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.160 we bit off more than we can chew. What do 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:42.360 we do? Do we sell the house? We are strapped 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:44.599 with payments all over the place, and this mortgage is 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:48.920 killing us. And that's housing and cars. The other one 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:50.800 is credit card debt. We are seeing more and more 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:55.880 people with huge credit card balances. We're not talking five, ten, fifteen, 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.480 We're talking fifty thousand, one hundred thousand dollars in credit 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.560 card debt with twenty two percent APR, and it just 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.080 takes your breath away to hear some of these stories. 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.920 And not all of them are like we're spending frivolously 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.679 on our lifestyle. Some of them just, hey, life happened. 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.120 We didn't have an emergency fund, and we started just 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.000 putting you know, we're in the red by a grand 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:17.640 or two every month, and we just started putting it 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.360 on the cart every single month, month after month. So 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:21.680 those are the big ones we're seeing. 0:14:21.760 --> 0:14:22.240 I'm curious. 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.440 I mean with those being obviously with cars and homes, 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:26.880 those are massive. Those are big ticket items, right, and 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:29.560 oftentimes you're not gonna if someone comes to you, you're 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:31.200 not typically going to say, all right, just go ahead 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.080 and list the house completely, uproot the kids, you're gonna 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:34.920 leave your community. 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.320 Yeah, how is it that you are? How do you start. 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:40.280 Talking to folks to get them to wrap their head, 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:43.080 their mind, their arms around the debt that they have. 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.320 I've got to think that initially you're focusing on the 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:46.960 credit card debt. 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:47.480 Is that right? 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.720 Well, we always you know, I think the debt snowball 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.640 method is the most powerful motivating, encouraging process, which is 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.280 small to largest balance. So the only time we'll tell 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.240 people to kind of go outside of that is if 0:14:58.280 --> 0:15:00.320 they have IRS det and we tell people, well, hey, 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.440 that goes to the very top because the IRS can 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.760 really screw up your life if you don't get a 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.640 hold of it. So if you've got that tax, debt, 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:09.400 tax burdens, back taxes, put that to the front of 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.840 the line. Then focus on small so largest balance, and 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.480 so that's usually the best case for everyone. Of course 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.200 everyone's situation is a little bit different, but I would 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:19.960 say nine times out of ten, that's where we're going 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.400 to steer people. And what I do is, I think 0:15:23.440 --> 0:15:26.240 my strategy personally is if if they're really wanting to 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.440 dig into the math, I lean into emotion. And if 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:32.280 they're very emotional, I lean into the math. And I 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.120 think that helps you get away from the feelings of 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.120 it and go, Okay, how much do you guys make? Oh, 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:40.360 we make one hundred and seventy five grand a year? Okay, great, 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:42.800 how much what's your debt payments? Have you guys done 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.520 a budget? Okay? You should have this much margin? What 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:47.880 is keeping you guys from having that much margin? So 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:50.520 getting into the details helps. But when someone wants to 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.120 argue about math, I go, hey, how would it feel 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:55.240 if you just woke up tomorrow with no payments in 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:57.800 the world, what kind of decisions would you make differently? 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.840 That just helps them break out of what you know, 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:03.760 vortex they're stuck in mentally, And I found that it's 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.680 a pretty decent strategy to help callers just see things 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:07.400 in a different way. 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:09.800 Have have rising interest rates changed the way you talk 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.200 about debt at all? Because that clearly changes the math 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.520 for someone on the math front, right, Like you go 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:17.920 from a cardit card with fifteen percent APR to twenty 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.720 two percent, or your he lock was three and a 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:23.040 half percent and now it's seven and a half percent, 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:27.720 and so that can massively impact your financial trajectory. Or 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:29.840 is it? Do you think the message is the same 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.760 no matter what's happening kind of in the macro environment. 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.120 I think the ultimate message is the same is get 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:37.960 out of debt is a thief. It's dealing from your 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.800 paycheck and income. But you're right, with higher interest rates 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.720 come more pain. It's harder to get out when the 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.600 interest is building on that balance, and it's hard to 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.200 pay down that principle fast enough. And we're seeing that 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:51.200 with cars. I mean, car interest rates are at all 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:53.440 time highs, and I had a caller call in he 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.960 had like a twenty six percent interest rate on his car. 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:56.520 Wow. 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.200