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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking Breaking Broke with George Campbell.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Today we are talking all about getting out of debt,

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Speaker 3: and it's a good time to have this discussion as well,

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Speaker 3: since consumer debt, especially credit card debt, it's been on a.

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Speaker 1: Tear over the past several years.

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Speaker 3: Basically since the bottom of the pandemic, and we're lucky

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Speaker 3: to be joined by someone who knows a thing or

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Speaker 3: two about debt. George Cammell. Not only has he personally

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Speaker 3: climbed from a negative net worth himself, but he's also

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Speaker 3: a personal finance expert over at Ramsey Solutions. George co

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Speaker 3: hosts The Ramsey Show as well as Smart Money Happy

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Speaker 3: Hour with our friend Rachel Cruz, and he as a

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Speaker 3: new book, Breaking Free from Broke, that came out earlier

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Speaker 3: this month. We're excited to talk about all of.

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Speaker 1: That and more today.

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Speaker 3: George, thank you for joining us today on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Joel Matt, it is such an honor to be here.

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Speaker 2: I was telling you guys earlier, I've been fans of

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Speaker 2: y'all's for a long time now, and so I feel

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Speaker 2: like I'm inside of the matrix. We're gonna see how

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Speaker 2: the sausage is really made.

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Speaker 1: Today.

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Speaker 3: It's much less impressive as you've seen.

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Speaker 2: I was impressed, honestly by Matt's hair. I'm already jealous.

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Speaker 2: Who isn't I are the hair of the closer.

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Speaker 3: We stop recording, George and I will exchange nice on

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Speaker 3: how we get that volume.

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Speaker 1: It always takes in forty five minutes to get it

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Speaker 1: like that, George.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, not all about the hair dryer.

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Speaker 1: That's right, not too much time, all right, George. First

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Speaker 1: question we ask every guest who comes on the show

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Speaker 1: is what's their craft beer equivalent? And what we mean

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Speaker 1: by that. Matt and I spend you know, someoneld say

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Speaker 1: too much money on craft beer, but you know what

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Speaker 1: we're saving and investing at the same time. So it's

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Speaker 1: a okay, what is that thing in your life that

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Speaker 1: you spend more money on than some people would think

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Speaker 1: is normal or right? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Man, Well, I consider myself bougie frugal, and so I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to buy expensive things but get like ten percent

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Speaker 2: off and feel like I'm winning. And so the thing

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Speaker 2: for me that I think people will go you're spending

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Speaker 2: they spent a lot of money on that, and it's

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Speaker 2: mostly my wife, and that is Bourbon. I'm in a

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Speaker 2: Bourbon society with some friends, about thirty of us, and

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Speaker 2: so I just have too much of it. I don't

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Speaker 2: even drink it a lot. I just have a lot

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Speaker 2: of bottles. There's like a fomo to it when it's

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Speaker 2: a special bottle, a hard to get bottle. And so

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Speaker 2: the most I've spent on a bottle is probably about

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Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty dollars or so, and it hurt

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Speaker 2: my soul.

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Speaker 1: But what was that I ask?

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Speaker 3: Is actually Joe and I with our wives, we went

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Speaker 3: up to Bourbon country this time.

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Speaker 1: Was it last year?

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Speaker 3: So I was almost exactly a year ago for my

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Speaker 3: fortieth for a little birthday.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So what are some of your favorite go tos? Even

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Speaker 3: though you're not maybe the biggest partaker of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this particular bottle was a Jack Daniel came out

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Speaker 2: with a barrel single barrel barrel proof rye that will

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Speaker 2: knock your socks off, very nice.

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Speaker 1: Nice.

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Speaker 2: So that in Blanton's.

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Speaker 1: Weller twelve Classics.

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Speaker 2: Angels envy rye is another favorite, and so there's a Yeah,

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Speaker 2: those are probably the go tos and they can range,

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Speaker 2: you know, fifty to one hundred bucks, and so that

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Speaker 2: is something that I splurge on. Ever since I'm not

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Speaker 2: broken anymore, I've been able to, you know, indulge more.

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Speaker 2: I have no hobbies, So if that makes you guys

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Speaker 2: feel any better, I really don't do it. I hang

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Speaker 2: out with my dogs, which are the most expensive part

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Speaker 2: of all life.

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Speaker 1: Well that that and whiskey.

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Speaker 3: And it's no wonder that you drop big money on

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Speaker 3: that Tennessee bottle with y'all being there.

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Speaker 1: Outside of NASHVILLEE.

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Speaker 3: But oh yeah, okay, George, we want to get to

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Speaker 3: know you as an individual because we I mean, this

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Speaker 3: is literally the first time we've ever we've ever talked

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Speaker 3: with you, and I'm curious about your money story. You

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Speaker 3: are of Middle Eastern descent. Your parents are immigrants, and

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Speaker 3: it sounds like that they've fully immersed you into like

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Speaker 3: the American culture, but simultaneously, like you've talked about how

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Speaker 3: you got coupon's with your with your dad, I would

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Speaker 3: love to hear about your parents' influence on how it

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Speaker 3: is that you see and just what it is that

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Speaker 3: you believe about money.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, my parents are from Egypt and Syria, and

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Speaker 2: they moved to the US in the eighties and had

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Speaker 2: my brother, and then I was born in Boston, and

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Speaker 2: so I grew up in like a weird little Arabic

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Speaker 2: Baptist bubble, so Arabic Baptist church, but in an Irish Italian,

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Speaker 2: you know, Catholic area of Boston, and so it was

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Speaker 2: a really weird time to grow up but also hilariously fun.

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Speaker 2: And my parents they adapted and they fell for some

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Speaker 2: of these money traps. And they were, you know, we

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Speaker 2: were middle class. They worked really hard, we never struggled.

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Speaker 2: We didn't go without food, it wasn't anything like that.

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Speaker 2: But they also you know, had we had student loans.

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Speaker 2: I fell for some of those traps where I thought

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Speaker 2: my parents were just wealthy because they were like, well,

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Speaker 2: well don't worry about college, we'll figure that out. And

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Speaker 2: I went, wow, they have some secret money they've been saving.

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Speaker 2: This is wonderful. Turns out it was like co signing

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Speaker 2: loans and subsidized loans through financial aid quote unquote, and

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Speaker 2: so I sort of felt for these traps. And my

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Speaker 2: dad had a you know, forty credit cards that they

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Speaker 2: were like maximizing rewards and playing this game but I

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Speaker 2: saw those moments of stress where it wasn't fun and

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Speaker 2: things were getting tight, and at the same time they

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Speaker 2: were very frugal. And that's a I don't know if

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Speaker 2: it's a Middle Eastern trade that runs in our DNA,

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Speaker 2: but we just love a deal. We love to haggle,

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Speaker 2: we love to negotiate, we love to find the coupon,

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Speaker 2: and so that has been instilled in me. And I

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Speaker 2: love helping people save money on things they really want.

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Speaker 1: That is the saddest thing to me about American culture

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Speaker 1: is that we don't haggle like so many other cultures.

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Speaker 1: I think it's so fun, Like I love traveling to

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Speaker 1: other countries and going to the market or something like that,

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Speaker 1: and it's expected in so many other places.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but in the US in America.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if the US you asked for a discount and

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Speaker 1: they look at you like are you crazy? Like you

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Speaker 1: can't ask that question.

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Speaker 3: It's not the proper Western European way, Joel exactly.

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Speaker 2: That's a game to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, We're always trying to push people in that direction,

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Speaker 1: like no, no, no, ask for the discount, even though

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Speaker 1: some people might think it's uncouth. You can and if.

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Speaker 2: You're a nice guy I found, like, you know, three

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Speaker 2: out of five times, like you're gonna something will happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, No, I think you're spot on. Uh okay,

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Speaker 1: you we're not going to go through like all of

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Speaker 1: your life, childhood, middle school or anything like that. Middle

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Speaker 1: school everybody knows was the worst, so we don't.

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Speaker 2: It was a cold day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you let's go, let's skip to kind of

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Speaker 1: when you joined the Ramsey team. You didn't start off

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Speaker 1: as a Ramsey personality. You started off as a marketing intern,

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Speaker 1: but you also had you had debt when you joined

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Speaker 1: the crew there, and so I'm curious what that hiring

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Speaker 1: process looks like. You had debt. Are they like, wait

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Speaker 1: a second, you're not allowed to work here? Yeah? What

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Speaker 1: does that look like? What any questions are they asking you?

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Speaker 1: And are they kind of steering you in the right

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Speaker 1: direction when you get hired.

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Speaker 2: That's a great question. A lot of people assume that, like,

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Speaker 2: when you start at Ramsey, you got to be debt

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Speaker 2: free and investing fifteen percent into your wroth four O

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Speaker 2: one K. But truthfully, we have people from all backgrounds

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Speaker 2: and walks of life that apply here, and we look

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Speaker 2: for a culture fit and if you're pumped about our

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Speaker 2: mission and you're actively trying to pay off debt, that's

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Speaker 2: what really matters. And so you can come in here

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Speaker 2: with two hundred thousand dollars of debt. We're not gonna

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Speaker 2: sit here and judge. We just want you to be

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Speaker 2: on the plan. And so that I came in not

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Speaker 2: knowing much about Dave going. I went through Financial Peace

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Speaker 2: University when I started here as part of the onboarding process,

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Speaker 2: and that's when I sort of went, oh, crap, I'm

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Speaker 2: more broke than I thought because it was my first

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Speaker 2: salary job. You know, I was an intern and so

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Speaker 2: I didn't even have a full time job here. And

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Speaker 2: a few months later the internship ended, I found a

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Speaker 2: spot as an email marketing coordinator full time for two

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Speaker 2: and a half years. That was my first job, and

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Speaker 2: it was my first salary job, and I realized, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: this entry level starter salary is barely enough to just

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Speaker 2: pay my bills because of my debt and my lifestyle.

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Speaker 2: And so I had to make some sacrifices and get

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Speaker 2: some side hustles and start doing a lot of things

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Speaker 2: to clean this mess up. And that happened in about

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Speaker 2: eighteen months, I was able to pay off that forty

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars in consumer debt.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, so you said side hustles, what were you doing?

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Speaker 1: You driving an Uber? Like you got an Etsy shop

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Speaker 1: cause of selling George Campbell Crochet's like, what what were

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Speaker 1: you doing to make some money?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I was a musician, and so I

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Speaker 2: was still doing some music gigs. I got some music

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Speaker 2: licensing hits, like Ford used my music on our YouTube

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Speaker 2: channel video they did and I was like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: they want They're gonna pay me like thirty five hundred

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Speaker 2: dollars for this. And on top of that, I was

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Speaker 2: driving for Uber and Lyft and they were new to

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Speaker 2: Nashville at the time, and they had these bonuses. If

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Speaker 2: you did this many rides, you'd get a thousand dollars bonus,

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Speaker 2: And so I was taking advantage of the Uber and

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Speaker 2: Lift sign up bonuses. I was doing marketing consulting, helping

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Speaker 2: people launch podcasts, build websites, launch books as the marketing guy,

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Speaker 2: and so I was using all of the skills I had,

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Speaker 2: and skills I didn't have to just make any extra

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Speaker 2: money I could. I even did the Nielsen People Meter

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Speaker 2: y'all know about this.

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Speaker 1: How do you do that?

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Speaker 2: A little beeper? Well, they just listen. It's really creepy

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Speaker 2: now looking back, but you carry around this little beeper

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Speaker 2: and you turn it on and it's listening to all

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Speaker 2: of the media. You're consuming music, TV, all of that radio,

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Speaker 2: and it's tracking all of that and it's kind of

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Speaker 2: using me as an example of what other people are

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Speaker 2: listening to. And so you would get you know, as

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Speaker 2: long as you turned it on, you were making a

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Speaker 2: few cents here and there, and so I'd get a

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Speaker 2: check for twenty bucks a month or something from Nielsen

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Speaker 2: for doing this. But I was just willing to do

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Speaker 2: whatever it took to make that extra buck and it

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Speaker 2: would it paid off. I don't regret it one bit.

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Speaker 2: I didn't miss out on life, and I was also

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Speaker 2: surviving off of lean cuisines and.

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Speaker 1: Hope George was hustling. Yeah, and I love that because

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Speaker 1: we talked about that too, like wrapping your car or

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Speaker 1: something like that. With an advertisement, A lot of people

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Speaker 1: would be like, no way, I'm doing that. But for

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Speaker 1: the person who really cares, like about paying off their debt,

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Speaker 1: about making progress more quickly, you're you're willing to look

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Speaker 1: like an idiot sometimes in order to make that happen. Well,

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Speaker 1: even with like the media thing, It's like, how intrusive

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Speaker 1: is that you wrap your car? Everyone can everyone knows

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Speaker 1: you're what you're getting after it. But if you've got

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Speaker 1: something discreet and it's listening to, it's like a fitbit

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Speaker 1: but for your ears, for your brain. But it's fascinating

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Speaker 1: though that you didn't come into the Ramsey orbit knowing

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Speaker 1: necessarily who Dave was, and like over time that that

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Speaker 1: that became more a part of your story and your identity.

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Speaker 1: But how is it that you went from doing marketing

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Speaker 1: and you know, initially starting out as an intern, moving

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Speaker 1: to marketing and then ending up being actually in front

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Speaker 1: of the in front of the camera, in front of

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Speaker 1: the mic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that transition was really interesting because I was the

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Speaker 2: kind of I'm a marketing guy. I was doing social

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Speaker 2: media and email marketing for my first few jobs here

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Speaker 2: at Ramsey for the first i don't know, six years

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Speaker 2: of my career. And then I made this transition to

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Speaker 2: host an MC for our live events in our video channel,

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Speaker 2: and that happened after I went on stage to host

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Speaker 2: our Battle of the Band's event we do it's an

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Speaker 2: internal company event. Our team members get together, they form bands,

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Speaker 2: we do cover songs, and we kind of fight for

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Speaker 2: the number one spot. And I was a musician, so

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Speaker 2: I was in these bands for three years and I

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Speaker 2: kept losing till like second and third place, and I

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Speaker 2: got sick of it. The hosting was terrible, so I

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Speaker 2: raised my hand and I went, hey, I think I

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Speaker 2: could bring something to the hosting gig to transition between

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Speaker 2: the bands and introduce and do all the fun stuff.

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Speaker 2: And so they gave me that shot, and I put

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Speaker 2: all my whole soul into it with creative videos and

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Speaker 2: funny parodies and on stage gimmicks and games with the team.

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Speaker 2: And they saw me on stage and went, hey, this

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Speaker 2: guy could backfill for our friend Ken Coleman, who's stepping

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Speaker 2: into this personality role with this career message. And so

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Speaker 2: they gave me a shot, and I did a good

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Speaker 2: enough job to where they said, all right, you're switching gears.

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Speaker 2: We're going to put you in this role. And so

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Speaker 2: that helped me get kind of on front of the

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Speaker 2: cameras instead of behind him, which was a dream of

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Speaker 2: mine to be a filmmaker. So I always love video

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Speaker 2: and broadcasting and all that stuff. I just never thought

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Speaker 2: I'd be the guy in front of it, and so

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Speaker 2: it's been a huge humbling blessing to get to do

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Speaker 2: what I do now. And following the money plan, they went,

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Speaker 2: this guy's really passionate about what we teach and he

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Speaker 2: has really interesting ways of creating content and connecting with

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Speaker 2: new people, and we should give him a shot as

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Speaker 2: a personality and see what he can bring to the table.

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Speaker 2: So that's what happened when I launched The fine Print

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, went on air with Ramsey and

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Speaker 2: we transitioned to The Ramsey Show from Dave Ramsey Show,

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Speaker 2: and we've been co hosting The Ramsey Show now for

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Speaker 2: a few years.

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Speaker 1: There's something really powerful when you've kind of gone through

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Speaker 1: the process yourself, right, digging yourself out of doing all

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Speaker 1: the side hustles, and then you want other people to know, wait,

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Speaker 1: this is possible. Like I've lived it. I went through

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Speaker 1: years of getting to this point where and now you're

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Speaker 1: a millionaire. You host a YouTube show, oh like talking

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Speaker 1: to other millionaires in your call the YouTube channel. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot going on on that front.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious. So like The Ramsey Show, in particular, the

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Speaker 1: radio show. You've got your finger on the pulse of

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Speaker 1: kind of what's happening with individuals, what's happening in the economy.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure just based on the calls you guys get

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Speaker 1: on a daily basis, you have a decent understanding of

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Speaker 1: kind of what's happening in America and what's happening with

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Speaker 1: people's finances. How does the show feel right now, specifically

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Speaker 1: in January, post holiday spending hangover that so many people

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Speaker 1: find themselves in. Is inflation still a topic? Like? What

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Speaker 1: are people wrestling with right now? Are what are the

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Speaker 1: calls you're getting that maybe feel the most compelling or

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Speaker 1: feel the most indicative of what's going on in our

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Speaker 1: society right now.

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Speaker 2: That's a great question. And I've talked with our other personalities.

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Speaker 2: We'll get off air and we'll just go talk to

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Speaker 2: each other and be like, man, do things just feel

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Speaker 2: heavier lately? Like the problems are just getting worse and

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Speaker 2: people are feeling more and more hopeless. And it's funny

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Speaker 2: to me, you know, we'll get comments on Instagram and

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Speaker 2: be like, these guys are so out of touch. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: we're literally talking to callers like as closely and as

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Speaker 2: intimately as we can every single day, and so I

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Speaker 2: feel like I'm more in touch than some dude with

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Speaker 2: a faceless Instagram profile. But what I'm seeing is people

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Speaker 2: are underwater on their cars more than ever because cars

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Speaker 2: got really expensive and people were just willing to pay.

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Speaker 2: And then the car market kind of cooled off a

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Speaker 2: little bit, and so now the car that they owe

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Speaker 2: thirty five on is only worth twenty you bought two

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Speaker 2: years ago after they reduced price exactly. So that's one

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Speaker 2: huge problem. The other one is people got freaked out

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Speaker 2: about the housing market and so they jumped you into

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Speaker 2: home they couldn't afford. Now they're calling us saying, hey,

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Speaker 2: we bit off more than we can chew. What do

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Speaker 2: we do? Do we sell the house? We are strapped

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Speaker 2: with payments all over the place, and this mortgage is

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Speaker 2: killing us. And that's housing and cars. The other one

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Speaker 2: is credit card debt. We are seeing more and more

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Speaker 2: people with huge credit card balances. We're not talking five, ten, fifteen,

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Speaker 2: We're talking fifty thousand, one hundred thousand dollars in credit

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Speaker 2: card debt with twenty two percent APR, and it just

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Speaker 2: takes your breath away to hear some of these stories.

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Speaker 2: And not all of them are like we're spending frivolously

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Speaker 2: on our lifestyle. Some of them just, hey, life happened.

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Speaker 2: We didn't have an emergency fund, and we started just

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Speaker 2: putting you know, we're in the red by a grand

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Speaker 2: or two every month, and we just started putting it

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Speaker 2: on the cart every single month, month after month. So

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Speaker 2: those are the big ones we're seeing.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious.

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Speaker 3: I mean with those being obviously with cars and homes,

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Speaker 3: those are massive. Those are big ticket items, right, and

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Speaker 3: oftentimes you're not gonna if someone comes to you, you're

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Speaker 3: not typically going to say, all right, just go ahead

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Speaker 3: and list the house completely, uproot the kids, you're gonna

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Speaker 3: leave your community.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how is it that you are? How do you start.

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Speaker 3: Talking to folks to get them to wrap their head,

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Speaker 3: their mind, their arms around the debt that they have.

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Speaker 3: I've got to think that initially you're focusing on the

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Speaker 3: credit card debt.

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Well, we always you know, I think the debt snowball

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Speaker 2: method is the most powerful motivating, encouraging process, which is

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Speaker 2: small to largest balance. So the only time we'll tell

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Speaker 2: people to kind of go outside of that is if

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Speaker 2: they have IRS det and we tell people, well, hey,

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Speaker 2: that goes to the very top because the IRS can

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Speaker 2: really screw up your life if you don't get a

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Speaker 2: hold of it. So if you've got that tax, debt,

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Speaker 2: tax burdens, back taxes, put that to the front of

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Speaker 2: the line. Then focus on small so largest balance, and

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Speaker 2: so that's usually the best case for everyone. Of course

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Speaker 2: everyone's situation is a little bit different, but I would

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Speaker 2: say nine times out of ten, that's where we're going

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Speaker 2: to steer people. And what I do is, I think

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Speaker 2: my strategy personally is if if they're really wanting to

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Speaker 2: dig into the math, I lean into emotion. And if

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Speaker 2: they're very emotional, I lean into the math. And I

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Speaker 2: think that helps you get away from the feelings of

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Speaker 2: it and go, Okay, how much do you guys make? Oh,

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Speaker 2: we make one hundred and seventy five grand a year? Okay, great,

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Speaker 2: how much what's your debt payments? Have you guys done

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Speaker 2: a budget? Okay? You should have this much margin? What

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Speaker 2: is keeping you guys from having that much margin? So

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Speaker 2: getting into the details helps. But when someone wants to

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Speaker 2: argue about math, I go, hey, how would it feel

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Speaker 2: if you just woke up tomorrow with no payments in

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Speaker 2: the world, what kind of decisions would you make differently?

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Speaker 2: That just helps them break out of what you know,

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Speaker 2: vortex they're stuck in mentally, And I found that it's

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Speaker 2: a pretty decent strategy to help callers just see things

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Speaker 2: in a different way.

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Speaker 1: Have have rising interest rates changed the way you talk

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Speaker 1: about debt at all? Because that clearly changes the math

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Speaker 1: for someone on the math front, right, Like you go

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Speaker 1: from a cardit card with fifteen percent APR to twenty

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Speaker 1: two percent, or your he lock was three and a

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Speaker 1: half percent and now it's seven and a half percent,

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Speaker 1: and so that can massively impact your financial trajectory. Or

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Speaker 1: is it? Do you think the message is the same

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Speaker 1: no matter what's happening kind of in the macro environment.

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Speaker 2: I think the ultimate message is the same is get

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Speaker 2: out of debt is a thief. It's dealing from your

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Speaker 2: paycheck and income. But you're right, with higher interest rates

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Speaker 2: come more pain. It's harder to get out when the

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Speaker 2: interest is building on that balance, and it's hard to

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Speaker 2: pay down that principle fast enough. And we're seeing that

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Speaker 2: with cars. I mean, car interest rates are at all

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Speaker 2: time highs, and I had a caller call in he

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Speaker 2: had like a twenty six percent interest rate on his car.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So, and we're seeing payday loans make a comeback because

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Speaker 2: people are getting really desperate, and so the interest rates

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Speaker 2: when you actually do the math on these things, can

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Speaker 2: be four hundred percent, and they're stuck in these cycles

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Speaker 2: trying to get rid of this. So I think the

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Speaker 2: interest rates are making things harder for people, But it's

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Speaker 2: great for us because it's not that hard to convince

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Speaker 2: them that this debt is bad and that they should

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Speaker 2: get rid of it. The one area it is difficult,

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Speaker 2: I'll be honest with you, is when people call in

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Speaker 2: and they want to argue about, hey, my savings account

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Speaker 2: makes five percent and my mortgage is three and a

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Speaker 2: half percent. Why the heck would I pay off my

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Speaker 2: mortgage when I can make five percent of my savings account.

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Speaker 2: Those ones they want to argue about the math and

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Speaker 2: the spread of what they could be making, and it's

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Speaker 2: it's truly exhausting, and I try to again steer them

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Speaker 2: toward the emotional freedom of not having a payment and

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Speaker 2: what if you could invest that payment, and the math

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Speaker 2: of hey, unless you have the full balance. Sitting in

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Speaker 2: a savings account making guaranteed five percent, you're not making

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Speaker 2: as much as you think you are. If you look

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Speaker 2: at your amortization schedule, see how much money you're forking

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Speaker 2: over an interest every month on that mortgage. And so

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to help people see this with math and emotion.

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Speaker 2: But we know that personal finance is eighty percent behavior

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Speaker 2: only twenty percent head knowledge. So you can argue with

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Speaker 2: this all day long. But you're calling in because you've

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Speaker 2: got a problem to solve, and we're trying to help

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Speaker 2: you solve it in the way we know best.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, at the end of the day, if you are

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Speaker 3: in a boatload of debt, something that you did got

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Speaker 3: you there, it takes a different formula to get you

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Speaker 3: out of that.

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Speaker 1: I guess I want to ask, too real quickly, like timeline,

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Speaker 1: how do you help people think through that? Because sometimes

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Speaker 1: it can People want the silver bullet, they want the

438
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,840
Speaker 1: quick solution, They want to get out of debt in

439
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 1: six months when it took six years to get into it.

440
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,840
Speaker 1: How do you help people think through the amount of

441
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,040
Speaker 1: time and effort that it's going to take and kind

442
00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,680
Speaker 1: of sustained vigilance maybe to get out of that debt hole. Yeah.

443
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,360
Speaker 2: Good. Most people, when they get that desperate, they're looking

444
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,160
Speaker 2: for shortcuts, and so they're asking, hey, should we take

445
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,640
Speaker 2: out the heelock, Hey should we take out the four

446
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,359
Speaker 2: one k loan or make that four to one k

447
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,480
Speaker 2: withdrawal in order to pay off this debt? And I

448
00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,240
Speaker 2: tell them, hey, you're not solving any problems here. You're

449
00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 2: just moving debt around. And it might feel good for

450
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,080
Speaker 2: half a second, but doing these consolidations and settlements and

451
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,919
Speaker 2: debt relief and whatever these shortcuts are, they're not going

452
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 2: to actually lead you to long term freedom, and so

453
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,919
Speaker 2: it always requires a level of sacrifice that's uncomfortable. But

454
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 2: I also remind them people on average, following the Ramsey

455
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,960
Speaker 2: Plan with we call Gazelle intensity in eighteen to twenty

456
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 2: four months that pay off all consumer debt except the mortgage.

457
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,800
Speaker 2: So this isn't forever. But when you're drowning in payments,

458
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 2: twenty four months feels like a lifetime, and you want

459
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,560
Speaker 2: to get out next month with one of these shortcuts,

460
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,920
Speaker 2: but it's never worth it. We try to walk them through,

461
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:31,680
Speaker 2: here's what's going to happen. You're going to be calling

462
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 2: back three months from now, because now you just have

463
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 2: debt in a different spot that you're still trying to

464
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,640
Speaker 2: pay off. You have to change your behavior in order

465
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 2: to finally get freedom.

466
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, the behavior change is needed for the vast majority

467
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 3: of folks, I do think, and we hear from folks

468
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 3: that reach out to us where they truly were in

469
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,880
Speaker 3: the dark, and it's like they have seen the light.

470
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,120
Speaker 3: The blindfold has been removed from their eyes, and they've

471
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,680
Speaker 3: seen the error of their ways, and with that in mind,

472
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 3: they are able to make some of those more mathematical

473
00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:01,520
Speaker 3: changes coupled with that desire to change how it is

474
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,479
Speaker 3: that they've been living their life. But like I think

475
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,920
Speaker 3: about folks that do have these massive sums of debt.

476
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,880
Speaker 3: But then on the other hand, you have folks who

477
00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 3: are just kind of playing with debt just like it's

478
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,160
Speaker 3: something that they've come to accept. Right, Like you write,

479
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 3: this is a quote. The normalization of debt over time,

480
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 3: it robs us of margin, freedom, options and joy and

481
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,119
Speaker 3: the way we approach debt. Like, we do think there

482
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 3: are some advantageous use uses of debt, but talk about

483
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 3: like the cascading consequences as we've become desensitized to debt

484
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 3: in our lives.

485
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. I talk about this in the book that it's

486
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 2: not all your fault, but it's your responsibility. And I

487
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,199
Speaker 2: have a lot of empathy that it's just not like

488
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,880
Speaker 2: people spending frivolously. We were led down this path by

489
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 2: society and misguided guidance counselors and well meaning parents because

490
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 2: we were told get good grades, go to the school

491
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 2: of your dreams, to get this degree that's going to

492
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,400
Speaker 2: give you some magic salary. And what that turned into

493
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 2: was borrow as much Sally May monopoly money as you

494
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 2: can get your credit score built up by opening a

495
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,400
Speaker 2: bunch of credit cards and trying to spend respond possibly

496
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,359
Speaker 2: at seventeen eighteen years old, so that you can live

497
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,440
Speaker 2: your financial life, so that you can get a good

498
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 2: deal on your car payment, so that you can get

499
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 2: a house that's too much house for a twenty five

500
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 2: year old to be jumping into. And then all of

501
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 2: a sudden you look around and your income is swallowed

502
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 2: up by all these payments. And I say in the book,

503
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,439
Speaker 2: you know, you were promised the American dream and you

504
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 2: were delivered this American nightmare. And it's not all daisies

505
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 2: and rainbows on the other side, it's stressful and you

506
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 2: don't make as much as you thought you did, and man,

507
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 2: after taxes and all those debt payments, there's really not

508
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 2: much to live off of, which is how you turn

509
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 2: to more debt and more debt. So that's what I

510
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,399
Speaker 2: call the toxic money culture. And I've learned because I

511
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 2: was the same way. So I have empathy because I

512
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 2: was there, I believed all of those myths, and now

513
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 2: being outside of it, and you know, I rose above

514
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,879
Speaker 2: this debt system by just realizing I don't need to

515
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 2: play the game and these companies are not my friend,

516
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,159
Speaker 2: and I don't need to leverage any of it, and

517
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 2: I can live a more peaceful life without any payments.

518
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 2: And so that's what my wife and I did in

519
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 2: our early thirties. We paid off our house and went

520
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 2: what options could we have in our early thirties without

521
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,440
Speaker 2: any payments in the world. And so that has really

522
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,399
Speaker 2: freed us up as we've entered adulthood, and you know,

523
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 2: now we have a little girl who's five months old.

524
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 2: It's really just taking off the money stress that many

525
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 2: people are experiencing.

526
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: Well congrats on that, by the way, and so fun

527
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: to get into that area of your era of your life.

528
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 1: But it's so much more fun and so much less

529
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: stressful when you don't have like ridiculous debts hanging over

530
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 1: your life and when you're financially prepared to take that on.

531
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: And that's always a tough question, like to wrestle with people.

532
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,879
Speaker 1: Are we ready to start a family? Are we financially ready?

533
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: And you're never fully ready financially emotionally, Like you're read

534
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 1: all the books, you're never really not sure until you're

535
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, you can read what to expecting, you're

536
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: expecting three times through and you're still not quite ready,

537
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 1: but still you want to be prepared. All right, George,

538
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 1: we got more to get to with you, and include

539
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 1: what we're gonna talk about spending. Especially from a guy

540
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 1: who loves to get a good deal, I want to

541
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: pick your brain on that front. We'll get to the

542
00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 1: more of George Campbell right after this.

543
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 3: Right, we are back from the break again talking with

544
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 3: George Cammell. And you know we spent the last section

545
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 3: George talking about debt and I think you've mentioned this

546
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 3: in your book. You want to take money from being

547
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 3: a stressor in your life to a blesser and a

548
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 3: part of that being able to enjoy your money is

549
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 3: spending it. And in particular, I like your smart Spender framework,

550
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:29,840
Speaker 3: and I think following those.

551
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,360
Speaker 1: Steps it'll help a lot of folks just dial back.

552
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 3: Needless consumption that is harming their finances as keeping them

553
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 3: from their ultimate money goals. But talk to us about

554
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 3: that framework if you don't mind.

555
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 2: Absolutely. So I started this when we did a Financial

556
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 2: Peace University lesson called why Spending, and I was trying

557
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 2: to come up with a simple framework to help people

558
00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 2: use as a filter when they're making any purchase, whether

559
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 2: it's ten dollars or ten thousand dollars. And so I

560
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 2: came up with these five questions and they spell out

561
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 2: the word smart if you walk through them. So self

562
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 2: awareness is the st art. You got to ask yourself

563
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 2: will this add value to my life? Is this truly

564
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 2: going to add some utility to my everyday life? And

565
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 2: if that's a yes, you can move on. If it's

566
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 2: a no, we got a pause. So if it's yes,

567
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 2: we move on to the m from motive. Am I

568
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 2: buying this for the right reason? So many of us

569
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 2: are buying things because of outside pressures or boundary issues

570
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 2: or it's emotional. It's retail therapy signaling, right. You guys

571
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 2: have seen that with callers as well. A lot of

572
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: our purchases are emotional.

573
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's one hundred percent true. There's that is

574
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: a huge reason why people spend I'm actually reading a

575
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: book by a professor from the University of Michigan right now.

576
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: It's called Tightwads and spin Thterst. We're gonna have them

577
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: on the show soon. I'm really excited.

578
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 2: Oh I love that.

579
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's and so many of those decisions often

580
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: get made not in the realm of the budget and

581
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: often divorced from kind of those ultimate money goals, And

582
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: it's about the signaling or the emotional response in the moment.

583
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 2: That's so much smarter than I could say it. I

584
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 2: love that. So that motive is the second step. If

585
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 2: you can say yes, I'm buying for the right reason,

586
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 2: then you move on to the a affordability which you

587
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 2: touched on. There is this in my budget. That's a

588
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 2: very simple but revolutionary question because if we answered this correctly,

589
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: America would be zero dollars in debt if everything was

590
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 2: in the budget, everything we could afford in cash. So

591
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 2: if you can say yes, we've saved up, we're going

592
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 2: to be able to cash flow this purchase. Then you

593
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: move on to the R for research. And I know

594
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 2: you guys will love this one. Is this the best option?

595
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 2: Retailer and price? Most of the time it's kind of impulsive.

596
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: We just kind of clicked on that ad or we

597
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 2: saw that in the store and just grabbed it. And

598
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 2: what I like to do is just pause and do

599
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 2: a quick search online and see, hey, are there other

600
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 2: retailers that have this? Is there generic brand that could work? Oh,

601
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 2: Amazon makes a knock off, it will work just as fine.

602
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 2: So asking yourself those questions will help you just pause

603
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 2: and be intentional about your research. And then finally, if

604
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 2: you say yes, I've done the research, you move on

605
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 2: to the T for timing. Is now the time to

606
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: buy it? This one comes down to opportunity cost. It

607
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: might be in the budget. You might have the money,

608
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 2: but you might want You might want to wait a

609
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 2: year or six months or two weeks to make that

610
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 2: purchase because you have other financial priorities. So those are

611
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 2: the five questions to ask. If you say yes to

612
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 2: all five, you're making that purchase with intentionality and no regret,

613
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 2: and if it's a no to any of them, you've

614
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: got to pause and adjust your motive, your lifestyle, your patience,

615
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 2: and your budget until you can say, heck yes to

616
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 2: all five.

617
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think that's super helpful because most of

618
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: the time we're not running through any framework or we

619
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: don't have any delay between the desire and then the

620
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: click to purchase. And obviously not just Amazon, but Amazon

621
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: in particular makes it so stinking easy to pull that off.

622
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 2: Well. Now, with ads, they're so targeted, it's like they

623
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 2: know exactly what you're wanting and things yourselves. Yes, and

624
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 2: these marketers are so smart, and so you've got to

625
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 2: be aware that companies are constantly coming after your wallet.

626
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 2: And I know our friend Clark Howard would agree. You've

627
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 2: got to be on the defense here and think psychologically

628
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: about what is happening to you and how you're feeling

629
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 2: that day and is this really the time to make

630
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 2: this purchase or did you just click on that ad

631
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: because it was a slick ad.

632
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. You almost need like a mental chastity belt for

633
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: your while to keep it protected. What are your thoughts

634
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: on lifestyle Creed George, Because you're a dude, who who's

635
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: made a lot of progress over the last decade. You are,

636
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: you've reached a millionaire status, you've reached full debt payoff.

637
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: That you paid off your mortgage in twenty six months.

638
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: I want to say, which most people would say ridiculous, George,

639
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: don't know how you did it, but like, are you

640
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: still as frugal as you were before? Have you loosened

641
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: the purse strings of the merse strings? I guess maybe

642
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: a little bit?

643
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: I like that strings.

644
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, the man person. Clearly you spend a little bit

645
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: more on bourbon these days. But once you kind of

646
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: pay off debt and you've been investing for a number

647
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 1: of years, how do you think about spending now? And

648
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: are you willing to spend more than you used to

649
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: be then you used to be willing to spend.

650
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 2: That's a great question. Absolutely. We have increased our lifestyle,

651
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 2: you know, modestly over the years as we've made more,

652
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 2: as we've gotten rid of debt. But for most people,

653
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: lifestyle creep is the biggest problem. As I call into

654
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 2: the show, people are making one hundred ninety thousand dollars

655
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: household income and they're calling us and they're broke and

656
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 2: it's all due to lifestyle creep. The more money they made,

657
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 2: the more money they spent. They got nicer cars, they

658
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 2: upgraded to the nicer house, and they're falling for all

659
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 2: of these debt traps. And so I do believe lifestyle

660
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: creep is one of the biggest issues that people aren't

661
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 2: really paying attention to in their budget and they're wondering,

662
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: I'm making more and more money, but it's all about

663
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 2: inflation and the housing mark. We're blaming everything else, but

664
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,479
Speaker 2: we're not looking at the guy or gown the mirror

665
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 2: going like, oh, I increase my spending excuses. So it's

666
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: rare that people go, I'm just going to increase my giving,

667
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 2: and no one has gone broke by being generous. You know,

668
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 2: it's all spending, and no one's gone broke by saving money.

669
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 2: But I do think the Ramsey plan. What I've found

670
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 2: is people who follow it to a tea who are

671
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 2: really intense, have a hard time making the shift back

672
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 2: to we're going to spend more now. And so that's

673
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 2: an area I try to encourage people with. They're calling

674
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: us saying, hey, we make one hundred and fifty grand

675
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 2: and we buy the thirty thousand dollars car in cash,

676
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: we have no debt. I'm like, buy the freaking car. Yes, yeah,

677
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 2: But those are the people that have a harder time,

678
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: and so I feel for them because it still hurts

679
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: me emotionally. We just bought my wife a car and

680
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: it was the biggest purchase we've made outside of a home,

681
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 2: and it hurt my soul. But I also knew you

682
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 2: got to like enjoy life too. You know, we're saving,

683
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 2: we're giving, but you also have to not have a

684
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 2: flat tire when it comes to spending. And Dave has

685
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: been very encouraging in that way because he's he's a

686
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: big fan of enjoying the money while you're on earth.

687
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: And so there's a good balance between saving, spending giving,

688
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 2: and we're on track for retirement. We're not worried about that.

689
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 2: We're giving in all the ways we want to, and

690
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 2: so the rest we get to enjoy. And so that means,

691
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 2: you know what, We're gonna get the house cleaner once

692
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 2: a month, We're gonna pay for the doggy daycare, you know,

693
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 2: twice a week. All of those things are now luxuries

694
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: that we are able to afford because of the sacrifices

695
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 2: we've made.

696
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: I love it.

697
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 3: This is a conversation. I feel like that we've been

698
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 3: having more and more. We recently talked with somebody who

699
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 3: used to be a part of the Fire movement, and

700
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 3: a big part of our conversation with Gwen was just

701
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 3: trying to figure out how to allow yourself to spend

702
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: more money, because yes, there can be a mental block,

703
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 3: but then even once you get past that, how is

704
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 3: it that you, as you're talking to callers, how do

705
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 3: you encourage them to explore and to maybe even determine

706
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 3: what it is that they're going to spend money on.

707
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: And even then once they've identified something, do you have

708
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 3: any sort of rule of thumb? Is there some sort

709
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 3: of line that you're wanting them to not cross? Because

710
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 3: I feel like it can be a slippery slope once

711
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 3: you start freeing yourself up to spend a little bit more.

712
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your thoughts there. Yeah.

713
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 2: I think an easy framework is to realize that there's

714
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: only three things you can do with money, give, save,

715
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: and spend. You know, you can teach this to your

716
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 2: seven year old and they'll grasp it. So I think

717
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: a great way to look at any extra money that's

718
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: floating around is First, you know, we're big on generosity,

719
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 2: and so I think giving some off the top is

720
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 2: a great way to just already have a loose hand

721
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 2: with it. And again, the the joy you get from

722
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 2: giving surpasses any that you would get from spending and saving,

723
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: and so I think that's a beautiful way to start.

724
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 2: Then we can save if you want to just put

725
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,239
Speaker 2: away twenty percent of that money. You know, if you've

726
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 2: got a house paid off, you can go hog wild

727
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: with investing in max out retirement accounts and put someone

728
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 2: in a taxable brokerage or the five twenty nine plan

729
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 2: for the kids. But beyond that, you know, we tell

730
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 2: people you don't want a flat tire. If you're just

731
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 2: really good at saving, but you're a miser when it

732
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: comes to spending, you're not going to have a quality life.

733
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: Your family's gonna suffer, your marriage is gonna suffer. So

734
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 2: you have to be able to enjoy things. So what

735
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: I tell people to do, that's a hard one. It's

736
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: a hard habit to create, but you force yourself in

737
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: the budget to put a line item for that spending.

738
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: And for some people that's a vacation. They haven't taken

739
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 2: a vacation in ten years. It feels like a frivolous luxury.

740
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: And we go go spend five thousand dollars and go

741
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: to an all inclusive and just have a great time

742
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 2: and force yourself to spend that money. And it's all

743
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 2: about ratios, you know. Dave talks about this. If you

744
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: make a million dollars, well, spending ten grand is like

745
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 2: a biscuit to someone who makes forty grand, you know

746
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: what I mean. Yeah, So it's all about ratios. And

747
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: so it's okay if Dave Ramsey goes out and buys

748
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars car, it's a very small portion

749
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: of his world, his net worth, his income. And so

750
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 2: as you make more money, it's okay to look at

751
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: those ratios and go, we can up it in this area.

752
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: And the greatest one I've heard Dave talk about is

753
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 2: the burn test. Can you put that pile of money

754
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: on the dinner table and burn it and still be

755
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: okay and not have an emotional breakdown? And if the

756
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 2: answer is yes, then it's probably an okay decision. But

757
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 2: if the answer is, oh my gosh, I would I would,

758
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: it would take my breath away to see ten thousand

759
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 2: dollars just disappear. Then don't do it, because most of

760
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: these things are toys and luxuries. Like he talks about

761
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 2: vacation properties and cars. These are toys, and so you

762
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 2: can't put too much of your net worth into these And.

763
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: The timing, the order of when you make those decisions

764
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: matter so much. Buying the new car at twenty three

765
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: and financing it is a completely different thing than buying

766
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: the brand new car at thirty three when you have

767
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: no debt and you have significant savings on hand. Right,

768
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: You mentioned relationships too, and the money decisions we make

769
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: drastically impacts our friendships. They impact our relationship with our

770
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: spouse and our kids, and I think, yeah, being too

771
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: cheap can certainly have a negative impact over time. Talk

772
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: to us about that a little bit. You met your

773
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: wife on the job, so it sounds like y'all were

774
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: probably on the same page a little bit with money already.

775
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: How important was that to you, given the amount of

776
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: progress you'd already made. Kind of having someone with a

777
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: similar vision for their finances. And I'm sure you get

778
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 1: callers too who aren't on the same page as our spouse.

779
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: How do you encourage them to maybe kind of land

780
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: in a similar place.

781
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 2: Oh, this is such a great question because the biggest

782
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: wealth hack is marrying the right person. I totally agree,

783
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 2: And it is really hard to build wealth if you

784
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: marry the wrong person who doesn't have the same values

785
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: and same goals. And so obviously meeting my wife at

786
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: Ramsey Solutions, she still works here. She's a boss babe

787
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: executive assistant for one of our board members and Dave's

788
00:33:56,720 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 2: right hand guys. And so she when I met her,

789
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 2: she was obviously better looking than me, smarter than me,

790
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 2: and better at money management. And so when I met her,

791
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 2: she was already dead free. So she was saving you exactly.

792
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: But I think my charm won her over. She likes

793
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 2: fil middle Eastern guys under five to eight, so that's.

794
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 3: A big plus great personality.

795
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: So that was a huge win. I mean, when we

796
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 2: started dating and we got married, it was like, all right,

797
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: we're going to pre decide that we're gonna put as

798
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 2: much down on a modest house as possible and paying

799
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 2: off as fast as possible. Because we asked ourselves those questions,

800
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 2: what kind of options could we have in our early thirties,

801
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 2: How could it change the decisions we make when it

802
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: comes to life and work and enjoyment and generosity if

803
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 2: we didn't have any payments already in our thirties, and

804
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 2: so we predecided. So that meant we were going to

805
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: be aggressive, and we saved up a big down payment

806
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 2: on we got a town home outside of the Franklin

807
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: area that was cheaper. Even though the bank would be

808
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 2: willing to loan us a bajillion dollars, we were like, no,

809
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 2: we're going to do something that's weird and rare and

810
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 2: get a modest town home. And so we did that.

811
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't you love that pre approval letter for two

812
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: thousand more than you're actually wanting to spend. That blows

813
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: my message with people so hard.

814
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: Yes, And so we did another weird thing, and we

815
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 2: didn't have a credit score because we didn't have debt,

816
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 2: and so we got a mortgage with no credit score

817
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 2: through a process called manual underwriting. And it wasn't that difficult,

818
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 2: it didn't ruin our life. We got a great rate

819
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 2: on the mortgage, and so I've been railing against that

820
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 2: myth for a long time. But all of that allowed

821
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 2: us to pay off the house in twenty six months

822
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 2: with we were really aggressive. This is not the Ramsey plan.

823
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: We tell people you can move from intense to intentional

824
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 2: when you move from baby step, you know, two and three,

825
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 2: which is getting out of debt, getting the emergency fund

826
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: into four five six, which is investing and paying off

827
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: the house early. And so we were just aggressive because

828
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:43,720
Speaker 2: it was a fun goal for us and we're weird

829
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: like that. But marrying her and having the same vision

830
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 2: and goals was such a blessing to just exponentially grow

831
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: a wealth so much faster. And so if you're not

832
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 2: on the same page, I feel for you, and you've

833
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: got to have the hard conversation. You've got to tell

834
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: your spouse really really how you feel. And if they

835
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: like you and they love you, they're going to listen

836
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 2: and they're going to try to understand and they're going

837
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 2: to go, Okay, I get it. You're stressed out about

838
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 2: this debt. What can we do to get rid of it.

839
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: That's when you guys go, all right, we're going to

840
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 2: read the Total Money Makeover or Breaking Free from Broke

841
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 2: or go through Financial Peace University to create that shared language,

842
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 2: to create those shared vision and goals for what we're

843
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 2: going to do and how we're going to do it.

844
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 2: That's how we see couples win. And it also improves

845
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 2: their marriages, which makes sense because you're communicating and there's

846
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: expectations and you're working toward the same goal, maybe for

847
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 2: the first time in your life, and so it's a

848
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 2: beautiful thing when you can get a spouse on board.

849
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm all about that, George.

850
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 3: And there are some differences between how it is that

851
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 3: we view certain things in the Ramsey way, but I

852
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 3: will say when Kate and I, the way we first

853
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 3: got on the same page was through Dave Ramsey. I

854
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 3: literally was like, hey, babe, yes, I don't know if

855
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 3: you've ever heard of this, and this is over fifteen

856
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 3: years ago, but we I bought tickets to one of

857
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 3: the live events because for us, we didn't have a framework,

858
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 3: we didn't have a way to talk about it, and

859
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 3: so we need to to learn the same language. And

860
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 3: that was the first step towards financial freedom for us.

861
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: Now they have the Dave Amsey face tattoo on their

862
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: on their shoulder to prove it.

863
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, the tat has faded over the years, but thanks

864
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 3: for sharing that, George. Just the story with you and Whitney.

865
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 3: But we're gonna talk more. We've talked about spending money,

866
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 3: and you're touching on rolling your net worth and just

867
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 3: the ability to save up large amounts of money. We're

868
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 3: going to talk more about investing. Right after the break.

869
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: We're back from the break. We're still talking about Breaking

870
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: Free from Broke. That's George's new book, George Campbell and George.

871
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: We covered a lot of ground already. Let's talk about investing. Though.

872
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: I feel like you you're thirty four, I believe already

873
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: a millionaire. Pretty amazing. Not many people get there at

874
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: that early of an age. I feel like the apps

875
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: like robin Hood, social media, what we see there, they

876
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: they want to make it seem like getting to that

877
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 1: point can be quick and easy. That maybe it's almost

878
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: like the difference between getting rich versus building wealth. What

879
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: was the process like for you getting that point? It

880
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: sounds like it was just a lot of hard work,

881
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 1: having a massively high savings rate, allocating more to debt

882
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: payoff and then more to investing. Was it just was

883
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: it this really sexy process or was it kind of

884
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 1: plain vanilla in nature? You getting to that millionaire status?

885
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 2: Well, you know, if you look at the comment section,

886
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 2: most people make fun of how simple my financial plan

887
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: was to build wealth. But I find it encouraging because

888
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 2: if it's that simple, then anyone can do it. You

889
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 2: don't have to be a prodigy, you don't have to

890
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 2: download the right app, thank goodness, regardless of what these

891
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 2: apps market to you. So I have a whole chapter

892
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 2: in the book on marketing on investing traps, and one

893
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 2: of those is micro investing apps. A lot of these

894
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: distractions that cause people to think they're building wealth but

895
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 2: doing it at such a slow rate while trying to

896
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: do seventeen other things. It causes them to never make

897
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 2: progress in any area, whether it's debt payoff or wealth building.

898
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 2: And that's what I love about the Ramsey plan is

899
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 2: it's one thing at a time. Let's focus on debt payoff.

900
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: Let's focus on the emergency fund. Now we can invest

901
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 2: fifteen percent, which is way more than most people are investing.

902
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: And so I think it's a beautiful plan to just

903
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 2: stay focused. And that's exactly what we did. And my

904
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 2: investing plan was real simple. We invested fifteen percent of

905
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 2: our household income into our WROTH four O. One case

906
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: here at Ramsey, and we split those across four mutual

907
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 2: funds that were diversified, and so that allowed us to

908
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 2: slowly build wealth in our investment accounts. And then of

909
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 2: course with the house payoff, you're building equity with this

910
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 2: forced savings plan, and the house is going to appreciate,

911
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 2: and so we have the beauty of living in Franklin, Tennessee,

912
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 2: which is one of the hottest areas. Definitely in Tennessee,

913
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 2: but in the South in general. Nashville area has been

914
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 2: blowing up when it comes to real estate. So with

915
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: the house appreciation and then paying off the home, we

916
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 2: got another home that's paid off. And so when you

917
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 2: add up all of our assets between our retirement accounts

918
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 2: and the house, it's over a million. And you go, oh,

919
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 2: my gosh, you kind of accidentally got there with intentionality.

920
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 2: And so people will make fun of me because they go, well, George,

921
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 2: your house doesn't count. I'm like, well, according to just

922
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 2: basic accounting, it does. But also, I don't need a

923
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 2: million dollars in liquid cash. What the heck am I

924
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 2: going to do with that? That's not really a flex

925
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 2: that I care about at this point in my life.

926
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 2: Because we have margin with every paycheck. We have margin.

927
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 2: We have a bunch of money in savings. We have

928
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 2: money in our retirement accounts that's growing for us with

929
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 2: compound growth over time that will tap into later on.

930
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 2: We can build a bridge account so that when we're

931
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 2: in our fifties, if we want to retire early, we'll

932
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 2: have that money to cover us. And so I've never

933
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 2: understood the argument that you need a million dollars in

934
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 2: liquid cash to be considered a real millionaire according to

935
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 2: the YouTube comments, which is funny to me, but that's it. Truly.

936
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 2: Our retirement is I've got a wroth Ira, a wroth

937
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 2: for on and K. My wife has a wroth for O,

938
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: on and K. We have a paid four house and

939
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 2: two paid four cars, and then a bunch of money

940
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 2: in our emergency fund in a highyield savings account.

941
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 1: That's beautiful.

942
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 2: And that's all my cards on the table.

943
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: Do not live your life according to YouTube comments, they'll

944
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: lead you.

945
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 2: That's just good life advice.

946
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: Sorry, Instagram or tiktokic.

947
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's exhaust I know I shouldn't look, but it's

948
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 2: like a car wreck. I'm just so intrigued to see

949
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 2: what the heck is going on and then I go, Okay,

950
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 2: I need a shower after reading these comments. That's right,

951
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 2: It's that simple.

952
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: Okay.

953
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 3: So, like we're kind of talking about retirement, can we

954
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 3: talk a little bit about the safe withdrawal rate? Because

955
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 3: you put out a video based on a bunch of

956
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 3: pretty robust evidence out there that you know, like the

957
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 3: four ish percent is a safe withdrawal rate for retirees.

958
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of that's based on the Trinity study.

959
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 3: Talk about that and just the approach and how it

960
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 3: is that folks should feel comfortable about drawing down on

961
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 3: their retirement.

962
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 2: Well, you know, when it comes to withdraw rate, it's

963
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 2: such a personalized decision because everyone's situation is different. Everyone

964
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 2: has a different nest egg, everyone has different expenses, and

965
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 2: so it's a it's a hard thing to just put

966
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: out there and say, well, for everyone in America, they

967
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 2: should do this. But I do think you know, Dave

968
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 2: Ramsey was on air famously talking about, hey, if the

969
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 2: market does twelve percent and you withdraw eight percent, there's

970
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 2: still a four percent spread for cost of inflation, rays

971
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: and all of that, and you could survive off of

972
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: that just fine. And you got a lot of flak

973
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,280
Speaker 2: for that, and I understand, but you got to remember

974
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 2: that people following the Ramsey plan after fifteen years, if

975
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 2: they follow our plan, they don't have a house payment anymore.

976
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 2: They've been investing for decades potentially, and so they don't

977
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 2: need to have one hundred fifty thousand dollars a year

978
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 2: in retirement. And so it's a beautiful thing when you go, oh,

979
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 2: I could withdraw it eight percent, but I could withdraw less.

980
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 2: And so my goal and the other question is do

981
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: you need this account to stay at the principal balance forever?

982
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 2: The answer is no, there's nothing wrong with drawing down

983
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: that balance. And most people with the life expectancy, if

984
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,919
Speaker 2: you retire a sixty two, most people won't live past

985
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 2: seventy five or eighty, you know, based on data, that

986
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 2: is true, and so you really need this account for

987
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 2: about fifteen years, not thirty to forty years.

988
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: So hope we're a good shape and we're living passes.

989
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 2: That's how I hope to live to I'm gonna trust me,

990
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,959
Speaker 2: I'm planning to go from you know, sixty to ninety five.

991
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:58,959
Speaker 2: If the cards play around at.

992
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,479
Speaker 1: George Mathusla Camill, what they're gonna come with yes.

993
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 2: At seven eighty four years old, still doing this podcast.

994
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 2: But I think it's a it's a fun conversation, but

995
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: it's also so hypothetical and nerdy, and I wish we

996
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 2: could be arguing about this. But the truth is, most

997
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 2: people aren't saving anything. Four and ten people have nothing

998
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 2: in savings and most people dream of having a million

999
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 2: dollars and they've lost hope. And so it's one of

1000
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 2: those things where if we can just focus on investing,

1001
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 2: you won't have to worry about withdrawal rates. Most people.

1002
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 2: I've never heard someone calling to the show being like, hey,

1003
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 2: we are withdraw rate was too high in retirement and

1004
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: now we're broke. Most people are saying, we don't have

1005
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 2: anything for retirement.

1006
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: What do we do exactly?

1007
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's so it's a very different conversation.

1008
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: It can be a psychological hurdle, I think too, for

1009
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,399
Speaker 1: people to see that balance go down, and I think

1010
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: more we need to help make retirees more comfortable seeing

1011
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:50,879
Speaker 1: that balance go down a little bit, because that's why

1012
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 1: you saved it up in the first place. That's why

1013
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: you spent so many decades on the front end making

1014
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 1: sure that you were going to be able to have

1015
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: retirement and you know it's okay, I guess to leave

1016
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: money to your heirs. That's also not something Matt and

1017
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 1: I prioritize. We love our kids, we want to give

1018
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 1: them every advantage in the here and now, but we

1019
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: also don't We want to try to avoid entitlements, and

1020
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: part of that is not leaving behind hundreds of thousands

1021
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 1: or millions to our offspring.

1022
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're probably gonna leave at the worst case,

1023
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: you're gonna leave paid for real estate. Yeah, which is

1024
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 2: gonna be worth a whole lot of money. When you

1025
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 2: guys you know hit you know, hit the old Rainbow

1026
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 2: trail there, and so even that think it's a beautiful thing.

1027
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: Even that, though I don't. We'll see if it goes

1028
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: to them. I haven't made up my mind on a

1029
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: bunch of things. So much depends on how things progress.

1030
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: And I want to make sure they have every advantage,

1031
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: like I said, like in the here and now as

1032
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: they're ten, eight and four, but as they as they

1033
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 1: get older and grow up go to school. Want to

1034
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: help them along. But I also want to make sure

1035
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,839
Speaker 1: that they have to drive to.

1036
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 2: And they're not just reliant well daddy's got exactly a

1037
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 2: portfolio that I'm going to get. Yeah, that We've seen

1038
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 2: that before where I'm trying to convince someone and they go, well,

1039
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 2: I'm getting a trust fund, so none of this matters.

1040
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 2: And I go, Okay, then I don't know why.

1041
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: What's this conversation right? Good for you?

1042
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, we all want that for our kids. We want

1043
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: to give them a better life than we had, but

1044
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 2: we also don't want to create this entitlement. And I

1045
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 2: went on air because people wanted to talk about on Fox,

1046
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 2: like Guy Fiedi says he's not leaving his kids anything,

1047
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,720
Speaker 2: and Marie Osmond says, he's not leaving our kids Jack Squad.

1048
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know that that needs to be

1049
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 2: the goal, you know what I mean? Yeah, but I

1050
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 2: think it's a good thing to grapple with, to go,

1051
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 2: how do we leave this in a way that doesn't

1052
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:21,919
Speaker 2: destroy them?

1053
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, all right, last question, talk to me about

1054
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: optimism versus pessimism. I am naturally an optimist, like one

1055
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: hundred percent all the way, and I know that everybody

1056
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:33,720
Speaker 1: kind of comes out of the womb a little differently

1057
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: on that front. But at the end of the book,

1058
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: you talk about how cynicism, negativity, and fear can stem

1059
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 1: me your process. So how important do you think your

1060
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 1: outlook is on your ability to make progress? And how

1061
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,760
Speaker 1: malleable is our outlook like? Is it set in stone?

1062
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 1: Is it nature from the very get go? Or do

1063
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 1: we have enough ability to kind of change that? And

1064
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: how do we go about doing stuff?

1065
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 2: Well? I was the opposite growing up, but I still

1066
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 2: struggle with it. I'm a recovering pessimist. I am sort

1067
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,919
Speaker 2: of the optimist cynic and so I have to fight

1068
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 2: this every day, and it's a daily decision because it's

1069
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 2: so easy to be cynical. And I thought it was

1070
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 2: like a flex like. I thought it was a personality

1071
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: trait to be cynical when I was younger, and I

1072
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 2: let cynicism for too long, I steal my joy and

1073
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 2: it kept me stuck in this victim mentality, because when

1074
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 2: you're cynical, it's everyone else's fault and you're just sort

1075
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 2: of this critic that's above it all, and you're just

1076
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 2: resigned to your fate as a cog in the machine.

1077
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,240
Speaker 2: And I drank that poison for too long, and nothing

1078
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 2: changed for me financially until I realized that pity's not

1079
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 2: going to lead to progress, and so that was a

1080
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: hard thing for me to make a paradigm shift to.

1081
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 2: And when I found out in the Millionaire study, they

1082
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,240
Speaker 2: asked a really interesting question. We did a national study

1083
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,800
Speaker 2: of millionaires, the largest one ever done, and they asked

1084
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: this question and the answer was this. Ninety seven percent

1085
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 2: of the millionaires we studied said they believed that they

1086
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 2: controlled their financial destiny. It's such a simple belief, but

1087
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 2: do you believe that you can personally effect where you

1088
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 2: end up financially? And if you don't believe that, then

1089
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: why would you even bother to get out of debt

1090
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 2: and invest for your future. You're just going to resign

1091
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 2: to your situation and wait for someone else to fix it.

1092
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 2: And so that when you have this positivity and this

1093
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 2: optimism that you can actually have agency on autonomy over

1094
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 2: your financial life. It creates this thing called hope. And

1095
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 2: that's sort of the secret thing we do here at Ramsey.

1096
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 2: That's our secret sauce is that day for thirty years

1097
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 2: is really good at just giving people hope. And when

1098
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,359
Speaker 2: you have hope, you're willing to do the hard thing

1099
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 2: for a season. You're willing to sacrifice and get the

1100
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 2: second job and sell the car because you can see

1101
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 2: light at the end of the tunnel and you know

1102
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 2: you're working towards something because you have a deep why.

1103
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 2: And so that's really my hope. At the end of

1104
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 2: the book. I put it there because it's not really

1105
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 2: finance related, but it certainly affects your finances. And I

1106
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 2: want to talk about money so we can stop talking

1107
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 2: about money, because, like you guys mentioned earlier, money is

1108
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 2: an obstacle for most people. And when we can turn

1109
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 2: that into a tool to really live a life for

1110
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 2: out of that doesn't exhaust us. That's what we're really after,

1111
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 2: not just a pile in our.

1112
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 3: Nests about what you can do with that money. Yeah,

1113
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 3: that sacrifice leads to the ability to change your life,

1114
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 3: and like I'll say on the show, that the ability

1115
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 3: to change your family tree. And George, we really appreciate

1116
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 3: you coming on the show and talking with us. Where

1117
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 3: can folks learn more about you? Where can folks learn

1118
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 3: more about the book?

1119
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 2: Absolutely so if you want to copy of Breaking Free

1120
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: from Broke, it's available at Ramseysolutions dot Com, Amazon, wherever

1121
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 2: you get your books, you'll find it there. If you

1122
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 2: search breaking Free from Broke, and if you want to

1123
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 2: connect with me, I'd love to hear what you thought

1124
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,720
Speaker 2: about this podcast. I know you're fans of How to Money,

1125
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,879
Speaker 2: so hopefully you'll be fans of mine and you can

1126
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 2: follow me at George Cammell with a K on Instagram

1127
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 2: and X which I hate calling it that, but that's

1128
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 2: what it is.

1129
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 1: It is.

1130
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 2: We have to just get used to it, guys at

1131
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 2: this point. So I love, love to connect with your fans,

1132
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 2: and we have so much more in common than we

1133
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,919
Speaker 2: do that we disagree on. And so it's an honor

1134
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 2: to be on the show and help people break free

1135
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: from broke and find financial freedom.

1136
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 1: One hundred percent George, thanks so much, man. It was

1137
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 1: a pleasure and we'll talk and soon.

1138
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: Awesome, thanks guys.

1139
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 3: Nice man, what a great conversation. And I'm curious if

1140
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 3: listeners were thinking, all right, Mangel, they're gonna wrap up

1141
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 3: this conversation and immediately cut up all their credit cards. No,

1142
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 3: because I still I'm still working on get some more

1143
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:14,959
Speaker 3: points there on my Southwest card.

1144
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: Heya, I'm gonna be taking a lot of free trips

1145
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: this year thanks to my credit cards, you know. But

1146
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: like George said, we have a lot more exactly, and

1147
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: I think that's what Dave is known for.

1148
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 3: But man, I just really appreciate how George is approaching

1149
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 3: personal finance, how he's approaching money, and the way that

1150
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 3: we think about it. But uh, yeah, I guess what

1151
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,399
Speaker 3: was your big takeaway from our conversation today?

1152
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 1: I think my big takeaway and you and I talked

1153
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: about this regularly, simplicity is so important underrated, right, And

1154
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 1: like he's talking about how your focus is spread across

1155
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: seventeen different action items, you're gonna make little to no

1156
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 1: progress on all of them. And I think that's so true.

1157
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 1: And he talked about his simple path paying on the

1158
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: mortgage and investing fifteen percent in those retirement accounts, and hey,

1159
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,439
Speaker 1: guess what if you do that with regularity, pretty soon

1160
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 1: you're a millionaire. Like, not in a day or a

1161
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 1: week or a year typically, but in the eight to

1162
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: ten to twelve to fifteen year timeframe. You can get

1163
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,760
Speaker 1: to that point if you have that sort of focus.

1164
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, it doesn't have to be some sort of

1165
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: complicated methodology or attacking this multi pronged system. It's paying

1166
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 1: off debt, increasing how much you're dedicating towards investments, watching

1167
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: those investments straightforward. Man. Yeah, I mean we talked about

1168
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 1: a lot of different things on this show.

1169
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,240
Speaker 3: Because we're nerds, Yeah, because we are diving into the weeds,

1170
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 3: and because we're nerds, we want to optimize at every turn.

1171
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 3: But it is important to point out that that's a

1172
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 3: particular kind of person, and it takes you as an

1173
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 3: individual knowing what type of person am I What kind

1174
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 3: of strategy do I need to focus on that is

1175
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 3: going to allow me to arrive at my goal?

1176
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: Yes, as fast as quickly as possible. At the core,

1177
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: at the heart, at the root of the situation, it's

1178
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: simplicity all the way down. If you want to make progress,

1179
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: and we can talk about all these things on the edges,

1180
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: they're going to help you make additional progress. They're going

1181
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: to help you take that cheaper vacation, or that going

1182
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: to help you increase the rate that you're earning on

1183
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,880
Speaker 1: your savings or whatever it is. But man, that focus

1184
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: on simplicity is so important in something we have to

1185
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 1: constantly come back to.

1186
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, man, I think that is so true. So

1187
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 3: I think my big takeaway is going to be I

1188
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 3: guess going back to Earlier on in the conversation, we

1189
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 3: were talking about advice that George gives when he's talking

1190
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,760
Speaker 3: with somebody and they've got a bunch of debt on hand,

1191
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 3: and I liked what he said about leaning the other

1192
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 3: direction from the individual's natural tendency. And so, for instance,

1193
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 3: if somebody is maybe a little more emotional when it

1194
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 3: comes to their spending, well maybe it's worth leaning a

1195
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 3: little bit more towards the math near to your side

1196
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,720
Speaker 3: of things. But if you have somebody and they're over

1197
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 3: analyzing their numbers, they're over there, maybe they're doing a

1198
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 3: little bit too much number crunching. What they need to

1199
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 3: do is to realize, hey, like, let's connect with the

1200
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 3: emotional side of what this being clear this debt, what

1201
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 3: that's going to allow you to do. I think there's

1202
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 3: some balance that that approach can provide that I think

1203
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,319
Speaker 3: could lead to a lot of folks seeing like outsized

1204
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 3: progress then the approach that they think is going to

1205
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 3: get them out of that hole, because bottom line, the

1206
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 3: tendency is what got them into that hole, and so

1207
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:03,720
Speaker 3: a lot of times it's going to take a different

1208
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:05,399
Speaker 3: strategy to get you out of it. Yeah, I think

1209
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 3: if there's there's some good wisdom there.

1210
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 1: If you're bogged down in emotion and that's how you

1211
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,479
Speaker 1: mainly relate to money, you should lean in the numbers

1212
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:12,839
Speaker 1: a little more. Maybe it used to need to get

1213
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:14,879
Speaker 1: a little more analytical with it. Yeah, Or maybe you're

1214
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: like the engineer type and you're in the spreadsheet all

1215
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: the time, and maybe you're not seeing the way that

1216
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: the way you treat money impacts your family, your household

1217
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: on the emotional level, and you need to step back

1218
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: and think through that because that's an important part of

1219
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 1: money too. So I like that. Yeah, maybe taking a

1220
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 1: little bit of that and sprinkling it in at least

1221
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 1: thinking through the opposite of your natural tendency makes a

1222
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: whole lot of sense. Totally. That's right, man.

1223
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,800
Speaker 3: Here's a little peek behind the curtain. Is our conversation

1224
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 3: with George was here in the morning. So you and

1225
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 3: I decided for the sake of the show, we're not

1226
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 3: going to drink a craft beer. I mean, George was

1227
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 3: drinking heavily like a fish. He's drinking bourbon out of

1228
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 3: his tubbler over there. No, it's early in the morning,

1229
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,320
Speaker 3: and so you and I are both enjoying nice cups

1230
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 3: of coffee here I got my I will say this

1231
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 3: is a splurge. This is the tim Windlebow like the

1232
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:04,720
Speaker 3: finest coffee straight out of Norway.

1233
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 1: Well, of course, the best coffee comes from Norway, my people's.

1234
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 3: But truly, this was not a cheap bag of beans

1235
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 3: that purchased last week. So yeah, no be a review

1236
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 3: this week. But hey, we'll be back next time always.

1237
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: All right, that's gonna do it for this episode. If

1238
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: you want links to some of the resources we mentioned,

1239
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: including George's new book, you can find those up on

1240
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: our website at Howtomoney dot com.

1241
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 3: That's right, buddy, So that's gonna be it until next time.

1242
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 3: Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.