WEBVTT - #365 Jason Flom with Clarence Jones

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<v Speaker 1>On August twenty fifth, nineteen ninety eight, Clarence Jones was

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<v Speaker 1>caring for his infant son, Colin. According to Clarence, he

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<v Speaker 1>had fed Colin a bottle, laid him down for a nap,

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<v Speaker 1>and later discovered him sputtering formula from his mouth. Clarence

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<v Speaker 1>rushed him to Sinai Hospital. Colin was in respiratory distress

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<v Speaker 1>with an erratic heartbeat, and doctors concluded that the hemorrhages

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<v Speaker 1>that were discovered in the coverings of Colin's brain and retina,

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<v Speaker 1>coupled with no external injuries, could only mean that the

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<v Speaker 1>nine week old infant was the victim of violence shaking.

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<v Speaker 1>While Clarence denied the allegations, Colin succumbed to his complication

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<v Speaker 1>six days later, on August thirty first. At trial, medical

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<v Speaker 1>experts testified that retinal hemorrhaging defined child abuse and that

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<v Speaker 1>the bleeding in Colin's retinas were the most severe they

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<v Speaker 1>had ever seen. These same experts confidently ruled out any

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<v Speaker 1>other potential causes of Colin's death, placing the blame squarely

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<v Speaker 1>on Clarence Jones.

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<v Speaker 2>But this is wrongful conviction.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to wrongful conviction. I'm going to start this

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<v Speaker 1>episode with a question, what would be the worst thing

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<v Speaker 1>that you could imagine happening to you? Now, if you're

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<v Speaker 1>a parent, and I am, it would probably be the

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<v Speaker 1>loss of a child. There's nothing worse than anybody can imagine,

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<v Speaker 1>except there is what if you lost a child and

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<v Speaker 1>then we're wrongfully accused of causing the death of your

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<v Speaker 1>own child, and since the thirty years in prison for

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<v Speaker 1>a crime that never even happened, Well, today we're covering

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<v Speaker 1>the extraordinary saga of the man himself, Clarence Jones, the

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<v Speaker 1>third who's with us right now. Clarence, welcome to the show.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you very much, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>You're very welcome. And joining him today is his civil

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<v Speaker 1>attorney who has joined his continued fight for justice, Lauren

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<v Speaker 1>kellaher welcome, Thanks, Jason. So this case revolves around shaking

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<v Speaker 1>baby syndrome, which is really, to me, one of the

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<v Speaker 1>most sickening aspects of junk science, which leads to some

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<v Speaker 1>of the most awful miscarriages of justice in our entire

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<v Speaker 1>criminal legal system. Claris, have you ever heard of shaking

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<v Speaker 1>baby syndrome before this awful, awful day when your child

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<v Speaker 1>was taken to the hospital.

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<v Speaker 3>I had never heard of no such thing. In fact,

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<v Speaker 3>when he was saying that, I had to look it

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<v Speaker 3>up and find out actually what was the talking about.

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<v Speaker 3>Then that day that the detectives had showed up to

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<v Speaker 3>my door, then I said, Oh, they going to charge

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<v Speaker 3>me with a crime, that's what they're trying to do.

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<v Speaker 4>To be honest, before I worked on this case, I

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<v Speaker 4>was not particularly familiar with the concept of shaking baby syndrome,

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<v Speaker 4>although in nineteen ninety eight, my understanding is that there

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<v Speaker 4>was quite a hysteria about shake and baby syndrome, and

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<v Speaker 4>there was this idea that is exhausted and burnt out

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<v Speaker 4>as they were parents of young babies were getting so

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<v Speaker 4>frustrated to the point of injuring them in these severe ways.

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<v Speaker 4>But as the scientific understanding of SBS has progressed, there

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<v Speaker 4>are all of these natural disease processes that occur very

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<v Speaker 4>tragically in babies like Colin that fully explain the presentation

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<v Speaker 4>with what folks in the SPS community will be familiar

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<v Speaker 4>with as the triad, which is intercranial bleeding, brain smelling,

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<v Speaker 4>and retinal hemorrhaging.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, back when this case occurred in nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>ninety eight. The only way people really looked at it

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<v Speaker 1>was that violence shaking could be the only cause of

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<v Speaker 1>this triad of findings. But they never tested it. They

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<v Speaker 1>just assumed it. And I'm really glad we're here to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about it. We're going to have later on the show.

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<v Speaker 1>Kate Judson one of my personal heroes. She's the executive

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<v Speaker 1>director of the Set for Integrity and Forensic Sciences, and

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<v Speaker 1>she'll dive deeper into this. So, Clarence, before your life

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<v Speaker 1>got turned upside down by people who should have known better,

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<v Speaker 1>What was it like. Did you grow up in Baltimore?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I did grow up in Baltimore, but I moved

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<v Speaker 3>out into the county area.

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<v Speaker 1>And how did you meet your wife Jennifer? Tell us

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<v Speaker 1>a little about when things were better.

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<v Speaker 3>I had met Jennifer doing one of the building that

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<v Speaker 3>she had lived in. I was a security officer at

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<v Speaker 3>the time, and basically that's how her and I got

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<v Speaker 3>to know one another. And I've always been into security work,

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<v Speaker 3>law enforcement work. In fact, I had my application trying

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<v Speaker 3>to become a Baltimore County Police office at the time

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<v Speaker 3>as it occurred.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, So if this could happen to you and you

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<v Speaker 1>were working in and around law enforcement, a law abiding citizen.

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<v Speaker 1>Then would you agree that this could happen to anybody.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, this could happen to anybody. You know the way

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<v Speaker 3>it came upon me. I didn't know that they was

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<v Speaker 3>trying to arrest me for something like this when I

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<v Speaker 3>was a kid. Loving father, very supportive.

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<v Speaker 1>So okay, So it seemed like he had everything going

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<v Speaker 1>in a very positive direction. You're married to the love

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<v Speaker 1>of your life, Jennifer, And was this your first child?

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<v Speaker 3>No, I have three other children. This one my son, Colin.

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<v Speaker 3>He was born with a condition called normalcytopenia PAPA or ITTP,

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<v Speaker 3>and just like his mother, Jennifer, she would could bleed easily.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>ITP is a blood disorder in which your immune system

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<v Speaker 1>attacks to platelets, the red blood cells that are responsible

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<v Speaker 1>for clotting. So the result is easy bruising, as well

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<v Speaker 1>as potential internal bleeding and even intracranial hemorrhaging. One of

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<v Speaker 1>the three findings, if not the main finding associated with

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<v Speaker 1>sbs ITP, can be acute, clearing up spontaneously in six

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<v Speaker 1>months or less, or chronic like your wife, Jennifers. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>Colin had only lived to be just about ten weeks old.

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<v Speaker 1>It was such a short medical history, it's not clear

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<v Speaker 1>which form he had. And this wasn't the only cause

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<v Speaker 1>for concern. Upon Colin's birth, he had a pretty dramatic delivery,

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<v Speaker 1>to say the least.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, he had aspirated some maconium which his newborn stool.

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<v Speaker 3>He was in respiratory distress, all these things and he

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<v Speaker 3>had to stay and say you behind it. Then we

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<v Speaker 3>picked them Colin up and he had another episode that occurred,

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<v Speaker 3>which was July of ninety eight, which he had bleeding

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<v Speaker 3>in the lungs. What they characterized and diagnosed was pneumonia

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<v Speaker 3>at the time.

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<v Speaker 4>The thing about the diagnosis of pneumonia is pneumonia was

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<v Speaker 4>essentially the best guess about what was going on with Colin.

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<v Speaker 4>During his July hospitalization, they gave him a pretty heavy

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<v Speaker 4>duty course of antibiotics that they would have expected to

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<v Speaker 4>clear up the pneumonia if it had been pneumonia in fact,

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<v Speaker 4>and they didn't work within the timeframe, and Colin just

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<v Speaker 4>sort of appeared to be getting better on his own.

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<v Speaker 1>But unfortunately he was not actually getting better. Rather, his

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<v Speaker 1>medical issues appear to have gone undiagnosed and improperly treated

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<v Speaker 1>until it was just too late.

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<v Speaker 4>When you look at Collins medical files, and even if

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<v Speaker 4>you just look at his final hospitalization in August of

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<v Speaker 4>nineteen ninety eight, immediately upon arrival, it was noted that

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<v Speaker 4>he had symptoms that were consistent with sepsis and a

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<v Speaker 4>bleeding disorder, which includes bleeding around the brain. But I

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<v Speaker 4>think the underlying thing here is like, no one can

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<v Speaker 4>look at the fact that he spent more than twenty

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<v Speaker 4>five percent of his short life in the hospital and

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<v Speaker 4>conclude anything other than this was a really sick kid

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<v Speaker 4>with a number of unresolved conditions that kept cropping back up.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this poor kid really didn't have a shot because

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<v Speaker 1>with all those problems and such a little tiny body.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, how does I mean anyway, So Clarence, this day,

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<v Speaker 1>what time did you, Jennifer go to work that day?

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<v Speaker 1>Because at the end of the day, you were targeted

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<v Speaker 1>because you were the one that was home. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>we see that again and again in these cases.

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<v Speaker 3>Right Well, you know, being and I worked at night,

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<v Speaker 3>I took care at Colin in the daytime, and Jennifer

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<v Speaker 3>took care of them at night. Jennifer, she left about

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<v Speaker 3>one point fifty two o'clock that.

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<v Speaker 4>Day, Clarence and Colin had by all accounts, a pretty

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<v Speaker 4>normal afternoon. Like Clarence mentioned, he worked at night. He'd

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<v Speaker 4>come home in the morning, he'd sleep for a little

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<v Speaker 4>bit because he was working all night. He'd get up

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<v Speaker 4>when Jennifer had to go to work at the hair

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<v Speaker 4>cuttery at the Rotunda Mall, I believe right, Clarence, like

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<v Speaker 4>you just described, and then he'd be responsible for watching

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<v Speaker 4>Colin for the rest of the afternoon. He'd feed him,

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<v Speaker 4>he'd burb him, he'd change his diaper. Colin had a

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<v Speaker 4>little swing that he loved to spend time in that

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<v Speaker 4>Clarence had set up for him, and he worked out that.

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<v Speaker 4>Colin took a shower and then laid back down for

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<v Speaker 4>more sleep. And when he woke up, he went to

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<v Speaker 4>check on Colin and found him the state that costs

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<v Speaker 4>to bring him to the hospital.

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<v Speaker 2>That's correct.

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<v Speaker 3>He was sputtering wing with formula coming out of aspirrating

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<v Speaker 3>from his nose and mouth, and I immediately got my son,

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<v Speaker 3>placed him in his car seat and rushed them to

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<v Speaker 3>the hospital. And there being that this is inner city

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<v Speaker 3>hospital with all this kind of negative stuff going on

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<v Speaker 3>with parents that do do these child to be things,

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<v Speaker 3>and they automatically looked at me and say, oh my god,

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<v Speaker 3>he's a big guy. He had to have done this.

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<v Speaker 3>And they just didn't even consider the history of what

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<v Speaker 3>my son was born with. They didn't even in fact,

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<v Speaker 3>looked at it. They just looked at me as a

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<v Speaker 3>person and went on and started making their assumptions about SBS.

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<v Speaker 1>And we haven't mentioned this, but Clarence, you're a black man.

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<v Speaker 1>Jennifer is white, and this is America, So who knows

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<v Speaker 1>how race played into this whole scenario. And Lauren, did

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<v Speaker 1>the investigation reveal anything unusual that could have corroborated those

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<v Speaker 1>initial assumptions about SBS.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, according to the prosecutor during the trial back in

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<v Speaker 4>nineteen ninety nine, the fact that Clarence drank a protein shake, which,

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<v Speaker 4>as she said, could have been laced with steroids was

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<v Speaker 4>apparently something weird that could have been going on at

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<v Speaker 4>that time.

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<v Speaker 2>That's correct.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I'd got my own weight set so I

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<v Speaker 3>could be home and work out and keep my eye

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<v Speaker 3>on my son, and it just all of that backfire

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<v Speaker 3>for me trying to be a healthy man. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>I never drank, smoke, did narcotics, No marijuana, none of

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<v Speaker 3>those things. And for them to take something as healthy

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<v Speaker 3>as working out with weights and said it was a

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<v Speaker 3>steroid drink or some things in that nature. And I'm saying,

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<v Speaker 3>if that was true, everybody that you see in these

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<v Speaker 3>health fitness clubs would be on steroids and they are not.

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<v Speaker 4>But cynicism about that commentary aside. You know, if you

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<v Speaker 4>look at collins medical files from when he was admitted

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<v Speaker 4>to Sinai Hospital at seven forty five pm on August

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<v Speaker 4>twenty fifth, nineteen ninety eight, in a matter of hours

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<v Speaker 4>after he was admitted, Mind you, those hours included suctioning

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<v Speaker 4>formula from his airways, getting him intubated because this was

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<v Speaker 4>a baby in severe respiratory distress who was not able

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<v Speaker 4>to breathe on his own. After that was all done,

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<v Speaker 4>not much more time elapsed, and you see the first

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<v Speaker 4>reference to SBS shaken Baby syndrome in Colin's medical file

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<v Speaker 4>based on the fact that at that point they had

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<v Speaker 4>identified the presence of really just one symptom of the

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<v Speaker 4>triad and the related symptom, which was the intracranial bleeding,

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<v Speaker 4>based on the CT scan Colin received not long after

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<v Speaker 4>he got to the hospital in that note, Interestingly, there's

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<v Speaker 4>a reference to what else needs to be ruled out

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<v Speaker 4>as an alternate explanation for what Colin was presenting with,

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<v Speaker 4>specifically a bleeding disorder, and blood studies were run for him,

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<v Speaker 4>and actually in the admission note, I was looking through

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<v Speaker 4>this just yesterday. The very first thing in Colin's file

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<v Speaker 4>also says rule out sepsis, which, if you know anything

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<v Speaker 4>about steps switch to be frank. I didn't know too

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<v Speaker 4>much when I started working on this case, but it

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<v Speaker 4>is a really common cause of death among infants in hospitals.

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<v Speaker 4>It wreaks havoc on the body, It destroys the organs,

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<v Speaker 4>It causes respiratory distress what Colin was experiencing when he

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<v Speaker 4>was hospitalized, and it also causes your blood clotting system

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<v Speaker 4>to go haywire and for your body to bleed indiscriminately

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<v Speaker 4>and in places it shouldn't, including around the brain.

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<v Speaker 1>But instead of considering this confluence of medical issues, they

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<v Speaker 1>just forged right ahead with their SBS diagnosis.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, Colin was labeled pretty early on as being

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<v Speaker 4>a victim of SBS, and this sort of automatic diagnosis

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<v Speaker 4>of SBS, there's no understating how much immediate and certain weight.

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<v Speaker 4>It was given by the medical community and then as

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<v Speaker 4>a result by the law enforcement who were investigating this

0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:57.880
<v Speaker 4>case back in nineteen ninety eight.

0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.520
<v Speaker 3>The detectives came to the hospital and the next day

0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.320
<v Speaker 3>they got in touch with Jennifer and I. We was

0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.520
<v Speaker 3>preparing to go up to see Colin. We were, in fact,

0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.120
<v Speaker 3>we was gathering up a lot of materials that we need.

0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.160
<v Speaker 2>Because we were going to camp up the hospital and

0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:14.720
<v Speaker 2>stay there.

0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.480
<v Speaker 3>And this is early in the morning. The detective had

0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.679
<v Speaker 3>not on our door. I let him in, of course,

0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:23.120
<v Speaker 3>and I didn't even know what it was about. I

0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.600
<v Speaker 3>didn't had no clue. And they said, we wanted to

0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:26.880
<v Speaker 3>talk to you about your son.

0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:29.080
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.480
<v Speaker 3>I was saying, please to myself, I hope my son

0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.200
<v Speaker 3>ain't passed, and they said, no, can you follow us

0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:39.319
<v Speaker 3>to the station. So we followed them all the way

0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.640
<v Speaker 3>down to the station, and they put Jennifer in one

0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:46.240
<v Speaker 3>room and put myself in another room, and they used

0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.360
<v Speaker 3>Jennifer as a witness and used me as a suspect.

0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.440
<v Speaker 4>And in the course of questioning him, as Clarence has

0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.200
<v Speaker 4>recounted for us multiple times, they kept saying to him

0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.080
<v Speaker 4>and Claren's correct me if I'm getting this wrong. But

0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:01.240
<v Speaker 4>the doctors aren't lying.

0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:02.360
<v Speaker 5>The doctors aren't lying.

0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:04.240
<v Speaker 4>This is what the doctors are saying.

0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:08.959
<v Speaker 3>They just kept asking me, did I drop my son?

0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.440
<v Speaker 3>Did I hit my son in the head? And they

0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.720
<v Speaker 3>was getting to the point they was getting so upset.

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.559
<v Speaker 3>They were saying, Clarence, sometimes I.

0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:17.240
<v Speaker 2>Get so mad.

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.360
<v Speaker 3>Did I want to grant my child? And I want

0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:20.840
<v Speaker 3>to say, I say, that's what you would do to

0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:23.640
<v Speaker 3>your child. I said, not me, I wouldn't do. I

0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:25.880
<v Speaker 3>love my I was telling them. It was just a

0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:29.520
<v Speaker 3>back and forth thing. And then at the end, ultimately

0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.680
<v Speaker 3>they said, well you under rest for child abuse.

0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.480
<v Speaker 1>This episode is underwritten by global law firm Greenberg Tryig

0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.720
<v Speaker 1>through its pro bono program. Greenberg Tryig leverages it's more

0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.920
<v Speaker 1>than twenty six hundred lawyers across forty four offices. To

0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.120
<v Speaker 1>serve the greater good of our communities and provide equal

0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.440
<v Speaker 1>access to justice for all. In the field of criminal justice,

0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:09.240
<v Speaker 1>greenbrog Triwity attorneys have exonerated and freedomanded Philadelphia represent numerous

0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.920
<v Speaker 1>individuals previously sentenced to life for crimes committed as juveniles

0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.960
<v Speaker 1>and resentencing hearings, and receive the American Bar Association's twenty

0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:20.800
<v Speaker 1>twenty one Exceptional Service Award for Death Penalty Representation for

0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:25.160
<v Speaker 1>their work on five death penalty cases. GT is reimagining

0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.920
<v Speaker 1>what big law can be because of a more just world.

0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Only happens by design.

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.080
<v Speaker 3>And they took me out in handcuffs. Jennifer comes running

0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.440
<v Speaker 3>up to me trying to hug me. They didn't even

0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.400
<v Speaker 3>want Jennifer near me, and they took me to the

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.840
<v Speaker 3>Baltimore County's Attention Center from net where I had to

0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:56.480
<v Speaker 3>see a commissioner to make bail. In fact, Jennifer's mom,

0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.720
<v Speaker 3>Missus Crocker, Oh, she was like a mother in itself

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.480
<v Speaker 3>to me. Also, she had putting up her property, her

0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.600
<v Speaker 3>home for me to get out on bail.

0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:11.280
<v Speaker 1>And let's pause on that for a second. This was

0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.880
<v Speaker 1>your mother in law, right who was grieving with her

0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:19.000
<v Speaker 1>daughter over Colin, her nine week old grandson, who was

0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.280
<v Speaker 1>struggling in the hospital to survive. And in spite of

0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.560
<v Speaker 1>all that, neither her nor your wife Jennifer ever wavered

0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:30.520
<v Speaker 1>in their support, their steadfast belief that you could never

0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:35.320
<v Speaker 1>and would have never done anything to hurt this little child.

0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.920
<v Speaker 1>But their grief was just about to multiply in more

0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:44.160
<v Speaker 1>ways than one. Six days after Colin had been admitted

0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:44.920
<v Speaker 1>to the hospital.

0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.680
<v Speaker 3>That's right, Colin, my dear son, had passed on the

0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:52.360
<v Speaker 3>thirty first of that August nineteen ninety eight, and they

0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.240
<v Speaker 3>upgraded the charges to homicide.

0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.280
<v Speaker 1>So not only had they lost Colin, but now you're

0:16:58.400 --> 0:16:59.880
<v Speaker 1>facing trial for murder as.

0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:03.520
<v Speaker 3>Well, and you don't get a bail on murder. But she,

0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 3>miss Crocker, she came to court and she told the

0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:10.280
<v Speaker 3>judge why I should have bail, And she asked the

0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.880
<v Speaker 3>judge because she put the same deed her property up

0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:18.200
<v Speaker 3>to reinstate my bail, and the judge went for it,

0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:22.600
<v Speaker 3>and he gave me bail, and I went.

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Right back to work.

0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.080
<v Speaker 3>In fact, my boss, they was all at that hearing,

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.720
<v Speaker 3>telling them what kind of employee I was pending that

0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.639
<v Speaker 3>hearing that I would always have a job. So they

0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.159
<v Speaker 3>gave me my job back and I went back to

0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:37.560
<v Speaker 3>work after all.

0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Of that on bail, and missus Crocker's generosity didn't stop there.

0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.400
<v Speaker 1>She and Jennifer hired your attorney, Donald Diaman as well,

0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.360
<v Speaker 1>and this went to trial on March first, nineteen ninety nine.

0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.240
<v Speaker 1>And was this a jury or a bench trial.

0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:54.760
<v Speaker 4>It was a bench trial. It lasted just a few

0:17:54.880 --> 0:18:00.399
<v Speaker 4>days this state. The prosecutor was Susan has for the

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:06.600
<v Speaker 4>Baltimore County State's Attorney's Office, and the testifying experts were

0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.119
<v Speaker 4>one of collins doctors who treated him at the hospital,

0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 4>and the medical examiner and the detectives in the case.

0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:16.600
<v Speaker 1>And to get a clearer picture of what was being

0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.320
<v Speaker 1>presented against Clarence back in nineteen ninety nine, I reached

0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.840
<v Speaker 1>out to the executive director of the Center for Integrity

0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.680
<v Speaker 1>and Forensic Sciences, none other than Kate Judson.

0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.679
<v Speaker 5>When Clarence Jones went to trial in nineteen ninety nine,

0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:34.240
<v Speaker 5>most of the challenges to SBS had only just begun,

0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:39.640
<v Speaker 5>so the medical establishment was firmly behind the faulty SPS hypothesis,

0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.080
<v Speaker 5>and the state's panel of five experts, which included Maryland's

0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:47.320
<v Speaker 5>chief medical examiner, doctor Dennis Chute, were no exception. Doctor

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:51.199
<v Speaker 5>Shute performed Colin's autopsy and testified to the presence of

0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.560
<v Speaker 5>the findings associated with SBS, as well as a lack

0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:59.800
<v Speaker 5>of external or spinal injuries. Biomechanical studies have since shown

0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.679
<v Speaker 5>that without those injuries, shaking is an unlikely cause for

0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:09.119
<v Speaker 5>the injuries often associated with it. Additionally, Colin's treating physicians

0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.800
<v Speaker 5>at the hospital, doctor Aaron Zuckerberg and doctor Timothy Polk,

0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:18.320
<v Speaker 5>testified that retinal hemorrhaging defines child abuse and acceleration deceleration injuries,

0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.479
<v Speaker 5>and doctor Polk said that the retinal hemorrhaging in this

0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.480
<v Speaker 5>case was the most severe he had ever seen. Then,

0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:29.119
<v Speaker 5>doctor Polk ignored Colin's bleeding disorder history and ruled out

0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.520
<v Speaker 5>sepsis as the cause of the retinal hemorrhaging. His reasoning

0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:37.040
<v Speaker 5>was that sepsis would cause more quote moderate and localized bleeding.

0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:40.760
<v Speaker 5>You know, even setting aside Colin's previous bleeding disorder throm

0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.800
<v Speaker 5>beside apenia, we know that sepsis can lead to another

0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:49.520
<v Speaker 5>bleeding disorder, disseminated intravascular coagulation or DC, which initially consumes

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.080
<v Speaker 5>all the blood's clotting factors and results in not only

0:19:52.119 --> 0:19:57.879
<v Speaker 5>potential inappropriate clotting, but also uncontrolled internal bleeding. Doctor Poke's

0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.600
<v Speaker 5>conclusory claimed that the bleeding from sepsis would be moderate

0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.640
<v Speaker 5>and localized. It's just not something he could accurately predict,

0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.720
<v Speaker 5>which then sheds dout and everything. Poke believed logically followed

0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.680
<v Speaker 5>that he could quote imagine no possible cause of Colin's

0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:15.080
<v Speaker 5>injuries other than violent shaking, and that's what the judge heard,

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:18.600
<v Speaker 5>not knowing that Pok had ignored sepsis and the bleeding

0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:22.320
<v Speaker 5>disorder DIC for the speculative conclusion that this had been

0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:23.240
<v Speaker 5>violent shaking.

0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:32.320
<v Speaker 4>Quite honestly, reading through the transcript, it's so clear the

0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:35.040
<v Speaker 4>thing was a moving train from the start, this moving

0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:37.720
<v Speaker 4>train of SBS, and it was impossible to get off

0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:42.400
<v Speaker 4>of and everyone had bought into it, hook line and sinker,

0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.560
<v Speaker 4>and given sort of the understanding of the medical evidence

0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.200
<v Speaker 4>at the time, you know, Clarence's defense was just kind

0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.720
<v Speaker 4>of nibbling around the edges of it. It was really

0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:55.480
<v Speaker 4>really hard, if not altogether impossible in nineteen ninety nine

0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.000
<v Speaker 4>when the trial took place to really take on SBS,

0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:00.480
<v Speaker 4>you know, head on, because it was it was so

0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:04.359
<v Speaker 4>widely understood and accepted as a cause for these types

0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:05.400
<v Speaker 4>of injuries and babies.

0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:10.040
<v Speaker 1>Right, it appears that even the defense's medical expert conceded

0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:14.200
<v Speaker 1>that SBS had some part in Colin's death, saying, quote,

0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:17.520
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was shaking baby syndrome. But looking over

0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.199
<v Speaker 1>the history there are so many other medical problems that

0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.960
<v Speaker 1>I began to wonder if I could really separate the

0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.400
<v Speaker 1>medical problems from the pure traumatic part. And I don't

0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:33.040
<v Speaker 1>think I can. Unquote wow, So not even your own

0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:37.320
<v Speaker 1>expert was ready to competently defend you. Then the detective

0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.720
<v Speaker 1>Philip Marl testified about how upset you got when pressed

0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:44.040
<v Speaker 1>about hurting Colin when he said to you, the doctors

0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:48.840
<v Speaker 1>aren't lying, they're not making this up. I mean, you

0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:51.120
<v Speaker 1>never really had a chance, let's face it. So how

0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:54.600
<v Speaker 1>long did this awful sinister charade go on for?

0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:58.080
<v Speaker 3>The trial was three days? The fourth day I was

0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:03.880
<v Speaker 3>found guilty March nineteen ninety nine. The state's attorney, Susan

0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:08.120
<v Speaker 3>Haslet she was going on in her closing testimony being

0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.520
<v Speaker 3>really harsh. She don't even know me, was saying things

0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:14.560
<v Speaker 3>that didn't make any sense. And then the judge went

0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:20.560
<v Speaker 3>on and when the case was rested, Judge Grayson Turnbull,

0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:25.560
<v Speaker 3>he said that the eye doctor, doctor Timothy Pope, that

0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:29.399
<v Speaker 3>his testimony had the greatest amount of significance to it,

0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:34.639
<v Speaker 3>and he wrote those words down and that's what inflamed

0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:37.560
<v Speaker 3>him the most to make him come up with his decision.

0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:41.200
<v Speaker 3>Then he convicted me right then and there.

0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:45.080
<v Speaker 1>Now, the conviction was for both child abuse and murder.

0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:47.679
<v Speaker 1>And I understand that the state's attorney, Susan Haslet she

0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:49.280
<v Speaker 1>wanted to throw the book at you.

0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:52.960
<v Speaker 3>She wanted twenty years for the child abuse, and the

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:55.560
<v Speaker 3>judge said, wait, Manue, it's not twenty years, it's fifteen

0:22:55.640 --> 0:22:58.000
<v Speaker 3>for that. They were just writing these numbers down like

0:22:58.080 --> 0:23:00.240
<v Speaker 3>it was just a yo. This man could do. This

0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:03.040
<v Speaker 3>is nothing I'm going to give. Okay, I'm going to

0:23:03.119 --> 0:23:06.720
<v Speaker 3>take the first degree and drop it to second degree murder.

0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:09.199
<v Speaker 3>So I'm going to sentence him to thirty years for

0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:12.280
<v Speaker 3>the murder and fifteen years for the child of you

0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:15.160
<v Speaker 3>that I'm going to run that concurrently. And I'm looking

0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:17.679
<v Speaker 3>at this and my family is in the courtroom. My

0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:19.960
<v Speaker 3>mom is in there, and my mom is wild. It's

0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:22.879
<v Speaker 3>falling apart, and she wasn't in the best of health.

0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:26.119
<v Speaker 3>And he just sentenced me to all that time. And

0:23:26.240 --> 0:23:27.240
<v Speaker 3>it's like it was like.

0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:30.040
<v Speaker 2>The Twilight he zon like, you know, am I hearing this?

0:23:53.080 --> 0:23:56.040
<v Speaker 3>They took me way up to the first institution, which

0:23:56.119 --> 0:24:01.040
<v Speaker 3>was w CI Western Correctional Institution up in Western Maryland.

0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:04.000
<v Speaker 2>The end of the stop you call it uh and

0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:05.000
<v Speaker 2>it was horrible from me.

0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:07.840
<v Speaker 3>It was just a bad experience to go and live

0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:11.360
<v Speaker 3>in such a small cell. It was hot, it was dingy,

0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:15.400
<v Speaker 3>dirty fights, arguments that you know, you got to remember

0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:19.200
<v Speaker 3>from being married from a I'm living with a nice

0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:25.480
<v Speaker 3>wife femininity and then moving into a high testisal of

0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:29.639
<v Speaker 3>guys wanting to fight, stealing from each other, all types

0:24:29.680 --> 0:24:31.960
<v Speaker 3>of gang members, something that I wasn't used to.

0:24:32.240 --> 0:24:37.320
<v Speaker 2>It was a hard show, you.

0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:40.399
<v Speaker 3>Know, because it's times I wanted I thought of suicide.

0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:42.679
<v Speaker 3>I said, wait a minute, I can't. You know, my

0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:45.479
<v Speaker 3>grandmother raised me up in church and you you know,

0:24:45.960 --> 0:24:49.120
<v Speaker 3>to my understanding, the Lord don't forgive you for suicide.

0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:51.919
<v Speaker 3>I was saying, Wow, this is a nightmare. That's what

0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:54.320
<v Speaker 3>kept me from wanting to be that type of person

0:24:54.359 --> 0:24:56.879
<v Speaker 3>to kill yourself. You know, I said, Wow, this is

0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:59.560
<v Speaker 3>really happening, and I had to.

0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:01.760
<v Speaker 2>Get with the program. I had to toughen up and

0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:03.920
<v Speaker 2>just keep studying.

0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:06.320
<v Speaker 3>When I found out that they had a law library,

0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:09.560
<v Speaker 3>that they had all medical books, then that's when I

0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:11.000
<v Speaker 3>started doing my research.

0:25:11.640 --> 0:25:14.280
<v Speaker 1>And this was at a time when the challenges to SBS.

0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:18.240
<v Speaker 1>The studies were just being done. The papers were just

0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:20.840
<v Speaker 1>being written at that time, and in two thousand euro

0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:24.919
<v Speaker 1>appeal was denied, as was a petition for post conviction

0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:27.359
<v Speaker 1>relief eight years later in two thousand and eight. So

0:25:27.520 --> 0:25:30.439
<v Speaker 1>then you reached out to the mid Atlantic Innocence Project.

0:25:30.640 --> 0:25:32.760
<v Speaker 3>I told them to look up my transcripts and I

0:25:32.800 --> 0:25:37.439
<v Speaker 3>started corresponding back and forth, sending them different information about

0:25:37.480 --> 0:25:40.159
<v Speaker 3>my son, what it happened. And they went deep and

0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:42.960
<v Speaker 3>deep and deep in than they knew they had wronged me.

0:25:43.520 --> 0:25:47.239
<v Speaker 3>But you know, I did, Innocence projects strengthened me. They

0:25:47.280 --> 0:25:52.359
<v Speaker 3>were sending constantly. I was getting legal mail mostly every month.

0:25:52.440 --> 0:25:54.800
<v Speaker 3>They was like they was in it with me, and

0:25:54.840 --> 0:25:59.600
<v Speaker 3>they had different law students coming in. But in twenty thirteen,

0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:01.600
<v Speaker 3>this is when I met Francis.

0:26:02.119 --> 0:26:04.240
<v Speaker 1>And by Francis, you mean Francis Walter is one of

0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:06.080
<v Speaker 1>the attorneys at the mid Atlantic Iainists Project.

0:26:06.119 --> 0:26:10.280
<v Speaker 3>Right, that's correct, Francis. That come up of October twenty thirteen.

0:26:10.840 --> 0:26:13.879
<v Speaker 3>And matter of fact, I was in the gym in

0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:15.840
<v Speaker 3>the prison, working out and they.

0:26:16.000 --> 0:26:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Jones, report to your housing units.

0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:22.119
<v Speaker 3>And I goes up to the visiting room and little

0:26:22.119 --> 0:26:25.480
<v Speaker 3>Francis she's standing there, and Francis looked at me and

0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:29.600
<v Speaker 3>she said, mister Jones, I'm gonna get you out. We

0:26:29.760 --> 0:26:32.400
<v Speaker 3>know what's going on. I'm gonna stay with you from

0:26:32.400 --> 0:26:34.560
<v Speaker 3>this time all the way till you get home.

0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:37.800
<v Speaker 1>And she did, Yes, she did, and she fought for

0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:40.640
<v Speaker 1>you in two different ways, both to clear your name

0:26:41.080 --> 0:26:43.159
<v Speaker 1>as well as with the parole board where you had

0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:46.280
<v Speaker 1>been repeatedly denied. And we know that they usually are

0:26:46.440 --> 0:26:48.560
<v Speaker 1>almost always wanted admission of guilt.

0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:50.880
<v Speaker 3>I went up, must have went up for parole about

0:26:50.920 --> 0:26:54.800
<v Speaker 3>five times, and every time they wanted me to milk guilt.

0:26:54.840 --> 0:26:57.479
<v Speaker 3>I said, I'm not gonna I said, I'll die. I'll

0:26:57.560 --> 0:26:59.480
<v Speaker 3>die in here because I said, I'm not going to

0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:02.119
<v Speaker 3>tell you I didn't do. I say, well, I mean,

0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:05.160
<v Speaker 3>where's the that's I can't live with myself. I'm telling

0:27:05.240 --> 0:27:08.800
<v Speaker 3>you only the truth. So they denied me parole. I

0:27:08.880 --> 0:27:11.720
<v Speaker 3>come up again, and I told them again and again,

0:27:11.760 --> 0:27:14.800
<v Speaker 3>and it kept denying me. But with Francis through the

0:27:14.840 --> 0:27:18.760
<v Speaker 3>mid Atlantic Innocent Project, had wrote them telling them that

0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:23.040
<v Speaker 3>they represented me, sent them medical reports, all these things

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:26.480
<v Speaker 3>in the nature about my son, and they kind of

0:27:26.760 --> 0:27:29.399
<v Speaker 3>believed it. At the time, I had taken up a

0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:32.919
<v Speaker 3>trade to become an electrician, graduated and then got my

0:27:33.080 --> 0:27:36.240
<v Speaker 3>NCCI card. They were just telling all good things that

0:27:36.359 --> 0:27:39.959
<v Speaker 3>the parole hearing about me, But I still didn't omit

0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:42.679
<v Speaker 3>any guilt to them, and they just gave me a

0:27:42.720 --> 0:27:43.480
<v Speaker 3>parole date.

0:27:43.680 --> 0:27:44.080
<v Speaker 2>What was that?

0:27:44.160 --> 0:27:47.240
<v Speaker 3>I told her the eleventh, twenty seventeen when they released me.

0:27:47.640 --> 0:27:49.120
<v Speaker 2>That felt so good.

0:27:49.200 --> 0:27:51.679
<v Speaker 3>That was a real, real good high day for me

0:27:52.160 --> 0:27:53.840
<v Speaker 3>being released out in the public.

0:27:54.200 --> 0:27:56.679
<v Speaker 2>And then but the bad was where do I go

0:27:56.760 --> 0:27:59.600
<v Speaker 2>from here? What do I do? When they paroleed me.

0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:02.800
<v Speaker 3>I didn't have no Social Security card, I didn't have

0:28:02.880 --> 0:28:06.480
<v Speaker 3>a birth certificate card, I didn't have a driver's license,

0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:08.440
<v Speaker 3>I didn't have no money in my pocket.

0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:09.760
<v Speaker 2>They just threw me out.

0:28:10.080 --> 0:28:14.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, It's something that I've been deeply concerned with and

0:28:15.000 --> 0:28:18.200
<v Speaker 1>involved in, is trying to figure out how to establish

0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:21.760
<v Speaker 1>better ways to help people coming home. I mean, obviously

0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:23.600
<v Speaker 1>we want to stop them from going in in the

0:28:23.600 --> 0:28:25.520
<v Speaker 1>first place, but let's face it, we probably have one

0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:28.399
<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty thousand or more Clarence Jones in this

0:28:28.480 --> 0:28:31.240
<v Speaker 1>country right now that are serving time for crimes that

0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:34.320
<v Speaker 1>didn't commit and they have to We really should be

0:28:34.320 --> 0:28:36.760
<v Speaker 1>building ramps for people, and instead it seems like we

0:28:36.800 --> 0:28:38.600
<v Speaker 1>put up walls for people coming home and it's in

0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:43.320
<v Speaker 1>or guilty and it doesn't make any sense. It's not

0:28:43.360 --> 0:28:44.960
<v Speaker 1>good for them, it's not good for their families, it's

0:28:44.960 --> 0:28:47.200
<v Speaker 1>not good for their communities, it's not good for society.

0:28:47.600 --> 0:28:51.320
<v Speaker 3>And luckily I had my sister, Lynette. My sister has

0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:53.920
<v Speaker 3>been really strong in my life, coming to see me

0:28:54.520 --> 0:28:56.160
<v Speaker 3>every week, along with.

0:28:56.440 --> 0:29:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Her girlfriend who we fell in love, Peggy Peggy, between

0:29:01.320 --> 0:29:02.040
<v Speaker 2>Peggy and Linnet.

0:29:02.160 --> 0:29:04.840
<v Speaker 3>They took care of me because I had nothing, Just

0:29:05.440 --> 0:29:08.920
<v Speaker 3>like you dropped me off on a planet and I'm

0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:09.880
<v Speaker 3>with aliens.

0:29:10.160 --> 0:29:11.040
<v Speaker 2>That's how I feel.

0:29:11.640 --> 0:29:14.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a completely different world from nineteen ninety nine,

0:29:14.800 --> 0:29:16.920
<v Speaker 1>and clearing your name could go a long way to

0:29:16.960 --> 0:29:21.040
<v Speaker 1>helping you reacclimate. So, Lauren, what did Francis Walters and

0:29:21.080 --> 0:29:23.000
<v Speaker 1>the mid Atlantic Innocescet Project do next?

0:29:23.560 --> 0:29:27.120
<v Speaker 4>So, the mid Atlantic Innocence Project file this petition for

0:29:27.200 --> 0:29:30.200
<v Speaker 4>rid of actual innocence in Baltimore City Circuit Court, which

0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:33.920
<v Speaker 4>is essentially trial court in Maryland State court system, with

0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:34.560
<v Speaker 4>the assistance of.

0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:38.600
<v Speaker 1>Don Saltzman, the Great Don Salzman, who is the senior

0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:42.920
<v Speaker 1>roboo partner and attorney at the Law Great Law Firm

0:29:42.960 --> 0:29:46.360
<v Speaker 1>of Skadnarp, slat Mar and Flom. And if that name

0:29:46.400 --> 0:29:49.360
<v Speaker 1>sounds familiar, it's because it was a firm that my dad,

0:29:49.480 --> 0:29:53.360
<v Speaker 1>rest in peace, was the senior partner of for many

0:29:53.400 --> 0:29:55.520
<v Speaker 1>many years, and the pro bono program was one of

0:29:55.560 --> 0:29:57.600
<v Speaker 1>his one of the things he was most proud of.

0:29:57.840 --> 0:30:01.000
<v Speaker 1>And so I know that Dad is viling down on

0:30:01.120 --> 0:30:04.560
<v Speaker 1>us from somewhere and is so happy that you're home.

0:30:04.920 --> 0:30:07.400
<v Speaker 1>So Dad, I guess we're going to dedicate this episode

0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:10.239
<v Speaker 1>to you, if that's okay with you, guys, And of

0:30:10.240 --> 0:30:12.360
<v Speaker 1>course to the Mid Atlanta A Gainnis's project, and all

0:30:12.400 --> 0:30:15.720
<v Speaker 1>the other lawyers who worked such long hours. They worked hard,

0:30:15.760 --> 0:30:17.720
<v Speaker 1>and they worked smart on your case, or you wouldn't

0:30:17.720 --> 0:30:19.960
<v Speaker 1>be here with us on the microphone today.

0:30:20.240 --> 0:30:23.040
<v Speaker 4>I mean, it's kind of crazy to think about how

0:30:23.760 --> 0:30:28.200
<v Speaker 4>quickly Colin was diagnosed and how much longer it took

0:30:28.240 --> 0:30:30.840
<v Speaker 4>to know how many minds had to be brought to

0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:34.680
<v Speaker 4>bear on a decision that was made relatively quickly so

0:30:34.760 --> 0:30:38.440
<v Speaker 4>many years ago in this case, So they filed this

0:30:38.480 --> 0:30:41.520
<v Speaker 4>petition for rid of actual innocence based on this theory

0:30:41.600 --> 0:30:46.120
<v Speaker 4>that you had. The court had all the medical evidence

0:30:46.200 --> 0:30:48.760
<v Speaker 4>of today to look at and to consider back when

0:30:49.800 --> 0:30:53.480
<v Speaker 4>Clarence was convicted, there's a substantial possibility that things would

0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:56.440
<v Speaker 4>have gone the other way. The team amassed all of

0:30:56.480 --> 0:31:00.640
<v Speaker 4>these doctors, these specialists, these forensic pathologists. They had like

0:31:00.680 --> 0:31:04.960
<v Speaker 4>a biomechanical engineer who explained how the forces of shaking

0:31:05.600 --> 0:31:09.280
<v Speaker 4>could not feasibly be possible for presentation of these types

0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:13.720
<v Speaker 4>of injuries. They had a pediatric infectious disease specialist to

0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:18.080
<v Speaker 4>talk about all the bacterial infections that Colin had when

0:31:18.080 --> 0:31:21.040
<v Speaker 4>he came into the hospital that caused the sepsis that

0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:27.280
<v Speaker 4>ultimately killed him. The trial court initially denied Clarence's petition.

0:31:27.880 --> 0:31:30.920
<v Speaker 1>Now it appears that Judge Turnbull had moved on to

0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:34.880
<v Speaker 1>be the Circuit and County administrative judge by twenty nineteen,

0:31:35.000 --> 0:31:39.200
<v Speaker 1>so this decision came from Judge Colleen Cavanaugh. Judge Kavanaugh

0:31:39.280 --> 0:31:42.320
<v Speaker 1>ruled that the defense hadn't even presented new evidence and

0:31:42.360 --> 0:31:44.720
<v Speaker 1>that there was a low likelihood of acquittal upon retrial.

0:31:44.880 --> 0:31:48.680
<v Speaker 1>Now I'm not sure how that's possible, but okay, so

0:31:49.240 --> 0:31:52.240
<v Speaker 1>you appeal that up to the Maryland Court of Special Appeals.

0:31:52.440 --> 0:31:53.280
<v Speaker 1>What happened there?

0:31:53.480 --> 0:31:56.760
<v Speaker 4>The Court of Special Appeals in this case, and I

0:31:56.760 --> 0:31:59.080
<v Speaker 4>think in most cases it was a three judge panel,

0:31:59.240 --> 0:32:03.240
<v Speaker 4>and they reversed Judge Kavanaugh and remanded with instructions for

0:32:03.320 --> 0:32:06.560
<v Speaker 4>her to grant Clarence the rid of actual innocence, which

0:32:06.720 --> 0:32:10.000
<v Speaker 4>she did on June twenty fifth, twenty twenty one.

0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Right, CJ, that's correct, that's correct.

0:32:12.240 --> 0:32:14.760
<v Speaker 1>So CJ, let's talk about that, because we've talked about

0:32:14.760 --> 0:32:18.360
<v Speaker 1>a lot of miserable stuff that happened that day. What

0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:19.920
<v Speaker 1>do you remember about that day.

0:32:20.160 --> 0:32:23.880
<v Speaker 3>In the courtroom when she granted me the petition for

0:32:23.880 --> 0:32:27.160
<v Speaker 3>the rid of actual innocence and setting aside the convictions.

0:32:27.280 --> 0:32:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I felt. So it was a big relief, a

0:32:30.320 --> 0:32:31.280
<v Speaker 2>big relief for me.

0:32:31.600 --> 0:32:34.960
<v Speaker 3>They ended up even going back acting what they reconsider

0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:37.680
<v Speaker 3>but they said no and they kept them mat at

0:32:37.680 --> 0:32:40.760
<v Speaker 3>the same and then Judge Colleen did it and signed

0:32:40.800 --> 0:32:43.240
<v Speaker 3>it and said this court has done So that was

0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:46.280
<v Speaker 3>a real, real, big happy moment of my life.

0:32:46.960 --> 0:32:50.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, amen to that. And you know, fortunately you'll now

0:32:50.080 --> 0:32:53.520
<v Speaker 1>be entitled to compensation. Even that takes too long, you know,

0:32:53.800 --> 0:32:57.200
<v Speaker 1>it's it's sort of cold comfort, but it's certainly better

0:32:57.320 --> 0:33:00.800
<v Speaker 1>that we do compensate you. It's the least we as

0:33:00.800 --> 0:33:03.440
<v Speaker 1>a society can do. And there are too many men

0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:08.000
<v Speaker 1>and women like yourself who've suffered this unimaginable you know,

0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:12.040
<v Speaker 1>fate and come home and get nothing, and that's just

0:33:12.160 --> 0:33:14.200
<v Speaker 1>adding insult to injury.

0:33:14.240 --> 0:33:18.480
<v Speaker 3>But you know, nothing ever, ever could replace I look

0:33:18.520 --> 0:33:20.640
<v Speaker 3>at my son and I train a lot of guys

0:33:21.120 --> 0:33:23.520
<v Speaker 3>would have been his age twenty four in a gym today,

0:33:23.920 --> 0:33:27.800
<v Speaker 3>and a lot of them are biracial kids. And I look,

0:33:27.880 --> 0:33:29.880
<v Speaker 3>and I'd be wondering saying, Wow, my son would have

0:33:29.920 --> 0:33:31.040
<v Speaker 3>looked like that or whatever.

0:33:31.640 --> 0:33:34.200
<v Speaker 2>You know, it just it. It's so hard.

0:33:34.920 --> 0:33:38.040
<v Speaker 3>No amount of compensation and all this could fix that

0:33:38.160 --> 0:33:40.400
<v Speaker 3>with the death of losing the child, my son.

0:33:41.200 --> 0:33:42.280
<v Speaker 2>It's a hard thing.

0:33:43.160 --> 0:33:45.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, It's something that no one can No one

0:33:45.960 --> 0:33:49.240
<v Speaker 1>can fathom unless they've walked a mile in your shoes.

0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:52.160
<v Speaker 1>And to hear from you makes me want to work

0:33:52.280 --> 0:33:55.920
<v Speaker 1>harder and smarter for you and everyone who's been through

0:33:55.960 --> 0:33:58.680
<v Speaker 1>similar hardships, as I'm sure it does for the lawyers

0:33:59.000 --> 0:34:00.960
<v Speaker 1>work at the mid Atlantic and It's is Project and

0:34:01.040 --> 0:34:03.960
<v Speaker 1>other great organizations like it. They need our support, so

0:34:04.040 --> 0:34:07.080
<v Speaker 1>we'll have them linked in the bio. And now this

0:34:07.120 --> 0:34:10.120
<v Speaker 1>brings us to my favorite part of the show, closing arguments.

0:34:10.719 --> 0:34:13.759
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to turn my microphone off, kick back in

0:34:13.840 --> 0:34:17.320
<v Speaker 1>my chair with my headphones on, and just listen. Lauren.

0:34:17.640 --> 0:34:20.480
<v Speaker 1>Let's let you start. You could say anything that you

0:34:20.520 --> 0:34:23.359
<v Speaker 1>think has been left unsaid. Then just hand the mic

0:34:23.440 --> 0:34:26.960
<v Speaker 1>off to mister Clarence Jones the third and Clarence, you

0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:30.680
<v Speaker 1>take us off into the sunset. I think one thing.

0:34:30.920 --> 0:34:32.759
<v Speaker 4>You know what you said at the outset Jason about

0:34:32.840 --> 0:34:36.719
<v Speaker 4>imagining the worst thing that could possibly ever happen to you.

0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:39.799
<v Speaker 4>I'm a parent of a little baby too, and it's

0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:42.000
<v Speaker 4>funny you said that because exactly how I describe this

0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:44.319
<v Speaker 4>case to anyone I tell about it. Imagine the worst

0:34:44.320 --> 0:34:46.560
<v Speaker 4>thing that could happen to you, And now imagine that

0:34:46.640 --> 0:34:49.239
<v Speaker 4>everyone is saying it's your fault, and you have to

0:34:49.239 --> 0:34:52.240
<v Speaker 4>sit in a courtroom and listen to them say terrible

0:34:52.239 --> 0:34:54.400
<v Speaker 4>things about you and what kind of person you are

0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:56.680
<v Speaker 4>and what kind of father you were. And then imagine

0:34:56.719 --> 0:34:59.880
<v Speaker 4>spending eighteen years in prison. Imagine not only that, but

0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:02.160
<v Speaker 4>you're not able to see your baby for a large

0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:04.320
<v Speaker 4>portion of the time he's in the hospital for the

0:35:04.400 --> 0:35:06.920
<v Speaker 4>last time because the police have told you you're not

0:35:06.960 --> 0:35:09.279
<v Speaker 4>allowed to go there. And then after your kid has

0:35:09.320 --> 0:35:11.480
<v Speaker 4>taken off life support, you're given a couple moments and

0:35:11.480 --> 0:35:13.600
<v Speaker 4>then you're handcuffed and you're taken away. And that's what

0:35:13.680 --> 0:35:17.600
<v Speaker 4>happened to Clarence. Here and here he is all these

0:35:17.680 --> 0:35:21.760
<v Speaker 4>years on, and he is still in the process of fighting,

0:35:21.800 --> 0:35:23.440
<v Speaker 4>and we're still in the process of fighting to get

0:35:23.480 --> 0:35:27.040
<v Speaker 4>him compensation, to get just a little bit of acknowledgment

0:35:27.080 --> 0:35:29.080
<v Speaker 4>from the state that what happened to him was wrong

0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:32.560
<v Speaker 4>and that he deserves some more relief and remedy for it.

0:35:32.600 --> 0:35:34.680
<v Speaker 4>But Clarence, as you can see, is an amazing and

0:35:34.719 --> 0:35:38.120
<v Speaker 4>inspiring person. He's an incredibly good man with a very

0:35:38.160 --> 0:35:40.319
<v Speaker 4>big heart. So thank you for the opportunity to share

0:35:40.320 --> 0:35:42.439
<v Speaker 4>his story, and I'll let him take it away from here.

0:35:43.680 --> 0:35:50.560
<v Speaker 3>Okay, listeners, You know it frightens me that any parents

0:35:50.760 --> 0:35:53.960
<v Speaker 3>today's up and coming parent that does something happened to

0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:58.200
<v Speaker 3>your child, that when you go into a medical facility

0:35:58.280 --> 0:35:59.840
<v Speaker 3>to get treatment or whatever.

0:36:00.480 --> 0:36:02.960
<v Speaker 2>It is a scary thing for me. Anyway.

0:36:03.080 --> 0:36:09.160
<v Speaker 3>You know, I have grandchildren that and my fiance her grandsons,

0:36:09.239 --> 0:36:11.719
<v Speaker 3>four of them. They love me and I wouldn't want

0:36:11.760 --> 0:36:14.880
<v Speaker 3>to be around them by myself at all because little

0:36:14.880 --> 0:36:18.160
<v Speaker 3>boys play rough and if I per se us out

0:36:18.680 --> 0:36:20.960
<v Speaker 3>playing with one of them and say one of them

0:36:20.960 --> 0:36:24.520
<v Speaker 3>would by theirselves and they fell off a swing or

0:36:24.520 --> 0:36:26.759
<v Speaker 3>got hit by a baseball in their head. What am

0:36:26.800 --> 0:36:30.880
<v Speaker 3>I to do go over the same scenario. Doctors need

0:36:30.920 --> 0:36:33.560
<v Speaker 3>to consider the medical.

0:36:33.160 --> 0:36:37.040
<v Speaker 2>History examine instead of rushing to judgment.

0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:40.680
<v Speaker 3>You got to look at all the different facets of

0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:43.520
<v Speaker 3>how they fit together before you can just go out

0:36:43.719 --> 0:36:48.000
<v Speaker 3>and just accuse someone just because it happens. And I'm

0:36:48.040 --> 0:36:49.920
<v Speaker 3>just a person trying to pick up and keep my

0:36:50.080 --> 0:36:53.560
<v Speaker 3>head above water, doing the right things as I always

0:36:54.080 --> 0:36:56.439
<v Speaker 3>and like I say, I uphold the lot. I try

0:36:56.480 --> 0:36:59.640
<v Speaker 3>to live in the boundaries of doing the right things.

0:37:00.320 --> 0:37:04.319
<v Speaker 3>Just watch your children, love them, kiss them, be with

0:37:04.440 --> 0:37:05.360
<v Speaker 3>them at all times.

0:37:05.440 --> 0:37:07.200
<v Speaker 2>Make sure you have people.

0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:10.000
<v Speaker 3>Around you at all times, knowing where you're going, because

0:37:10.320 --> 0:37:12.880
<v Speaker 3>once you get caught up in something like this, the

0:37:13.680 --> 0:37:18.120
<v Speaker 3>other side never retreats. So it's a hurtful thing. If

0:37:18.160 --> 0:37:21.160
<v Speaker 3>it happened to me, it can happen to you. Say

0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:25.320
<v Speaker 3>your prayers, be true to your family. God bless everyone.

0:37:25.960 --> 0:37:27.080
<v Speaker 3>That's my word to you.

0:37:34.560 --> 0:37:37.360
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to wrongful conviction. I want to

0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:41.360
<v Speaker 1>thank our production team, Connor Hall, Anni, Chelsea, Lyla Robinson,

0:37:41.560 --> 0:37:45.120
<v Speaker 1>Jeff Clyburn, and Kevin Wats. The music in this production

0:37:45.280 --> 0:37:48.920
<v Speaker 1>was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

0:37:49.080 --> 0:37:52.040
<v Speaker 1>Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,

0:37:52.400 --> 0:37:56.200
<v Speaker 1>on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at

0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:59.239
<v Speaker 1>wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On

0:37:59.440 --> 0:38:02.879
<v Speaker 1>all three platforms, you can also follow me on Instagram

0:38:02.920 --> 0:38:06.279
<v Speaker 1>at it's Jason flam Ravel. Conviction is a production of

0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:09.959
<v Speaker 1>Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number

0:38:09.960 --> 0:38:22.360
<v Speaker 1>one