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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Scott Sageman, I'm Evan, Nobie Williams, and I'm

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Speaker 1: Michael Laren. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast

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Speaker 1: where we explored the big money issues in the world

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Speaker 1: of sports today. To begin with a focus on Nike

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Speaker 1: and some long distance runners asking the International Association of

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Speaker 1: Athletics Federations to investigate whether it's zoom vapor fly shoe.

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Speaker 1: You gotta explain that to me provides an unfair advantage

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Speaker 1: during competitions. All right, well, this is all getting a

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Speaker 1: lot of publicity, of course, bar because Elliott Kipchoge, you know,

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Speaker 1: the runner took on the twenty six point two mile

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Speaker 1: close course, did it in less than two hours. I mean,

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Speaker 1: who would have ever thought, you know, first person ever

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Speaker 1: do it. And now people are wondering some in the

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Speaker 1: running space that's whether design of the shoe and it's

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Speaker 1: got some carbon fiber plates in there and different levels,

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Speaker 1: whether the design itself aids to a point where it

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Speaker 1: should not be allowed in competition. Though Evan of course

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Speaker 1: runs ten thousand miles a week, so he probably knows

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Speaker 1: better than anybody else this this space. But people are

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Speaker 1: definitely talking about the shoe. Yeah, The shoe itself is

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Speaker 1: called the four percent and it's called that because Nike

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Speaker 1: said that in studies it made runners four percent more

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Speaker 1: efficient in their energy. I think about that, more efficiency

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Speaker 1: means you're faster, right, So, so Nike is selling the

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Speaker 1: shoe commercially two d and fifty dollars if if you're

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Speaker 1: a normal person and want to buy it. They're selling

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Speaker 1: this shoe as a shoe that makes you faster, right. So,

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Speaker 1: so Nike, it's built into the marketing of the shoe

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Speaker 1: that it is a better faster shoe than all the others.

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Speaker 1: Um And as Scott said, the results are starting to

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Speaker 1: come in. Elliott kipcho gay or this shoe when he

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Speaker 1: broke the two hour barrier. The woman that set the

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Speaker 1: marathon world record last week was wearing this. The last

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Speaker 1: five men who have set the marathon world record on

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Speaker 1: the on the official you know, the actual record. Um,

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Speaker 1: they've all been wearing this shoe. There are a number

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Speaker 1: of records that are starting to fall because people are

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Speaker 1: wearing these four percent shoes. Well, what I don't understand is, Okay,

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Speaker 1: so they got the shoe, So what if someone wants

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Speaker 1: to go out and buy the shoe to help them

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Speaker 1: in a marathon. What's the big Well, well, here's what.

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Speaker 1: So the the I double a F, which is the

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Speaker 1: international governing body for track, you know, their by laws

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Speaker 1: say that, you know, the shoes that people wear that

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Speaker 1: are that are allowed to be sanctioned for world records, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: They have to be reasonably available to the public. And

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Speaker 1: they also quote they can't provide an unfair assistance or advantage. Right,

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Speaker 1: So it certainly sounds as though there are some runners

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Speaker 1: that aren't running in these shoes right now that are

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Speaker 1: telling the I double a F this is the definition

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Speaker 1: of an unfair as a clear evidence of that advantage,

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Speaker 1: and the I double a F is gonna need to

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Speaker 1: my guests make a ruling of some sort. And it

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Speaker 1: seems as though, you know, from people who know this

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Speaker 1: industry very well, I think that the fear maybe or

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Speaker 1: or the thought is that the I double a F

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Speaker 1: is going to come out and say, listen, everything is

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Speaker 1: fine as long as there's no motor inside the shoe

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Speaker 1: that's pushing your heel up as you go. And if

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Speaker 1: that is in fact true, I think you're just gonna

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Speaker 1: see massive, massive technological leaps and and and war between

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Speaker 1: sneaker cup about who can create the best spring or lever,

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Speaker 1: however you want to call it the best shoe without

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Speaker 1: having a motor in it to to push the humans

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Speaker 1: going faster and faster, and first think about what's it's

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Speaker 1: take the marketing ability of Nike can then can say,

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Speaker 1: look at all these elite runners that are setting all

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Speaker 1: these records, they're using our shoe. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: here's this high price point product that we're trying to

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Speaker 1: sell to Joe and Jill runner. You can see why

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Speaker 1: it's imperative that the I double a F said yes,

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Speaker 1: this is indeed a recognized legal shoe. And obviously every

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Speaker 1: every sport gets high end, really expensive technological advances that

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Speaker 1: help some people. Right if you look at even just

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Speaker 1: the bikes in the Tour de France, for example, right,

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Speaker 1: not all those bikes are made equal, and some of

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Speaker 1: the racers in the tour are using much more expensive

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Speaker 1: components or wheels or arrow bars that that others don't have. Right,

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Speaker 1: So there's an advantage to some people over others at

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Speaker 1: the pro level and other sports. I think the big

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Speaker 1: question here is athletics is kind of always build itself

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Speaker 1: as something different as kind of a purer form of

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Speaker 1: of sport um and if shoes become this kind of next,

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Speaker 1: you know, technological front in the same way that the

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Speaker 1: bike is, I think a lot of people are gonna

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Speaker 1: are balking at that. As long as you don't have

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Speaker 1: the Acme jet electro shoes, I don't see what the

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Speaker 1: problem is. We might not be far from that. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: we might be trying to do my jetsons sound right now,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty good? Right, that was pretty good? Thank you?

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Speaker 1: All right? Uh, World Series. We're here now talking baseball,

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Speaker 1: but not the Nationals and Asters. We're talking minor league baseball,

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Speaker 1: where MLB is looking to make some major changes next year.

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Speaker 1: According to reporting from Baseball America, the league is looking

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Speaker 1: to elimination more than more than Yeah, I'm sorry, forty

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Speaker 1: team major teams. How can you do that? Will you

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Speaker 1: tell them they're not being able to play anymore? I

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Speaker 1: mean major League Baseball, it controls minor league Baseball, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of them are independently owned. Yes. Apparently. The

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Speaker 1: thinking from what we've heard is that Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: is trying to better not only the pay and they've

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Speaker 1: been sued about that, but the travel all the conditions

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Speaker 1: for the minor league players, and that could greatly affect

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Speaker 1: how many teams there are, what the affiliations are, who

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Speaker 1: still has a team, who doesn't, who moves up, who

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Speaker 1: gets eliminated. Um, the the operator of Minor League Baseball

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Speaker 1: has already told, or the CEO has told all of

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Speaker 1: its teams, do not sign any deals because our contract

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Speaker 1: with MLB is up in twenty and we just don't

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Speaker 1: know what the system is going to look like. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think I think the best way to

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Speaker 1: think about this, for for folks who maybe a little

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Speaker 1: confused because it's super complex, is that Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: and Minor League Baseball have a working agreement much in

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Speaker 1: the same way that Major League Baseball and the Major

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Speaker 1: League Baseball Players Association do, Right, So it's it's a

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Speaker 1: financial agreement and also an agreement about how those two

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Speaker 1: entities co exist together. That agreement expires in September of

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Speaker 1: next year September, and Major League Baseball is in their

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Speaker 1: negotiations proposing some some pretty major changes, right, And as

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Speaker 1: Scott said, some of those changes are, you know, requiring

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Speaker 1: facilities get bumped up to to to a higher standard.

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Speaker 1: I think there's some some pay in there as well.

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Speaker 1: And the general thought is that of the one hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty Minor League baseball teams that are affiliated with

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Speaker 1: Major league franchises, that of the hundred and sixty, there's

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Speaker 1: gonna be forty that if these changes are enacted, are

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Speaker 1: going to end up going by the wayside, and those teams,

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Speaker 1: they won't necessarily stop playing baseball. Major League Baseball is

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Speaker 1: proposing a few possible possibilities for them to stay working right.

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Speaker 1: One of those is a would bat college league that

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Speaker 1: looks like the Cape Cod League for people who are

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Speaker 1: familiar with it. Another one is is what they're calling

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Speaker 1: the Dream League, which is a league for undrafted prospects.

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Speaker 1: So there may be a chance for those teams to

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Speaker 1: stay around. But if you are pick a city, if

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Speaker 1: you're the Des Moines Devils and you lose your affiliation

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Speaker 1: to the St. Louis Cardinals, for example, that has a

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Speaker 1: has a major effect on your business and actually could

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Speaker 1: eventually lead to you going out of business entirely. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I mean there are a lot of communities that

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Speaker 1: are connected to minor league baseball teams. Definitely impact and

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Speaker 1: Minor league baseball had going through an attendance resurgence right now.

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Speaker 1: And part of the argument I believe for major League

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Speaker 1: baseball is that you know, as a whole, minor league baseball.

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Speaker 1: And again when we say minor league baseball, this is

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Speaker 1: just the one hundred and sixty teams that are affiliated

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Speaker 1: with major league clubs, right, So it's not the independent league. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you know, Baseball says that the minor league baseball

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Speaker 1: teams on the whole, there's a hundred million dollar profit

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Speaker 1: in there. So Baseball is proposing some revenue sharing that

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Speaker 1: that may take place. Um. Essentially that there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of changes that are that are going on the way,

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Speaker 1: and if they take place, a lot of these clubs

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Speaker 1: and as Scott said, you know, these are all independently owned,

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Speaker 1: right and and the players on the teams are paid

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Speaker 1: out of the major league teams salary and hay roll.

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Speaker 1: But the minor league teams, which are independently owned, are

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Speaker 1: responsible for things like facilities, locker rooms, having a good

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Speaker 1: place to take people of any medical attention. Michael Jordan

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Speaker 1: played minor league baseball. He was a hero to his

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Speaker 1: teammates because he prought him a comfortable busy. Remember that

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Speaker 1: Michael Joan. But the Baron's a nice comfortable bus. And

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Speaker 1: it says something that Warren Buffett has never invested in

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Speaker 1: big league sports, but he has invested in minor league baseball. Well,

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Speaker 1: don't touch the Toledo mud Hens. Whatever. Never never. Finally,

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Speaker 1: the Chicago Cubs Regional Sports Network has in't the deal

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Speaker 1: that will bring the team's games to direct TV, you

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Speaker 1: Verse and the new A T and T TV when

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Speaker 1: it launches next year. It's distribution, right, you're launching a network,

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Speaker 1: you need distribution. And this is the reason, a big,

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Speaker 1: big part of it, anyway, why the Cubs partnered with Sinclair.

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Speaker 1: You have that distribution. Hef they go into negotiations with

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Speaker 1: folks already with two hundred um stations out there, so

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get that. And then you have some some

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Speaker 1: heft and some leverage, and you're starting to see that

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Speaker 1: playoffs have a deal with Chatter. Now you've got direct TV,

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Speaker 1: unlike the Dodgers still seeking full distribution in l A.

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Speaker 1: It's not an accident that Sinclair is also a partner

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Speaker 1: with the New York Yankees and the Yes Network on

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Speaker 1: the buy back uh Sinclair buyer of the Fox RS

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Speaker 1: N twenty one rs n s. Guess what those are

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Speaker 1: included as well? You're gonna spend those billions of dollars

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Speaker 1: for those rs ns. You're gonna want coverage they have

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Speaker 1: that distribution. This is about the power and the might

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Speaker 1: that Sinclair brings to these negotiations, and you're starting to

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Speaker 1: see the fruits. So let's lay out exactly what that

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Speaker 1: looks like a negotiation essentially Sinclair and talking to a

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Speaker 1: cable provider. Right, let's just say direct TV for the

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Speaker 1: sake of the example, goes to direct TV and says,

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Speaker 1: let's that would be a satellite provider. Sure, they say,

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Speaker 1: direct TV, if you want any of our two hundred

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Speaker 1: local news networks, you also need to pay for this

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Speaker 1: network or the other rs And they're essentially packaging at

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Speaker 1: all as one and their local networks are so valuable

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Speaker 1: that you know, sports essentially get included in the value

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Speaker 1: of that is that's essentially how this works, right, Yes, um,

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Speaker 1: I mean you just have it's all about leverage negotiations,

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Speaker 1: and Sinclair brings leverage because they have a lot of channels,

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Speaker 1: a lot of programming that that people want. That includes,

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Speaker 1: by the way, things already have like the Tennis channel,

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Speaker 1: So that's included part of the deal as well. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure the Yankees are going to count on

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Speaker 1: that heft when it comes time to negotiate new new

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Speaker 1: deals for this rework, to reimagine new Yes Network, whatever

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Speaker 1: it may look like. It's not an accident that the partners. Again,

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Speaker 1: you can't just bring money. And when when people were

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Speaker 1: looking at that RSN sale, the Fox rs N sale,

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Speaker 1: what people kept saying, what the private equity bidders was,

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Speaker 1: it's not going to go there unless they have what's

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Speaker 1: called the strategic partner. Where are the strategics in this

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Speaker 1: because they're going to need distribution, they need that help.

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Speaker 1: So it was always like, well, where is Sinclair in

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Speaker 1: this mix, because there's your valuable strategic Not a surprise

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Speaker 1: at the end they wound up with the rs and

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Speaker 1: Sinclair paid nine point six billion for those those twenty

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Speaker 1: R s and which were originally valued at like so

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Speaker 1: and and and we know, you know the CEO of

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Speaker 1: sin Claire because Ripley is telling us they're on the

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Speaker 1: on the lookout for more stuff. Yeah, and to that point,

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Speaker 1: you know, we reported a couple of months ago a

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Speaker 1: T and T s. Handful of r s N s

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Speaker 1: are are apparently on the market right now. There are

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Speaker 1: other options here for Sinclair if they want to expand

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Speaker 1: their rs N world. And you know, as we're saying,

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Speaker 1: you know it may be more valuable to to Sinclair

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Speaker 1: than anyone else because they have the ability to get

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Speaker 1: these distributions. Deals still gonna be odd no w g

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Speaker 1: N Yes, Yes, that's well, that's old school me. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast. I'm Michael Barr,

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Speaker 1: along with Scott Sashnik and Evan Nobody Williams. We're here

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Speaker 1: each and every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday exploring the world

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Speaker 1: of money and sports. Join us again at the end

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Speaker 1: of the week. We're speaking with Sal guilty Oto, the

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Speaker 1: namesake of Galaty Sports Baseball Baseball Investment Fund. You're listening

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Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. The Duke saying, I

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Speaker 1: was gonna say, Bloomberg Radio around the World, line where

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Speaker 1: to get you podcast and gold Singing Place, how I'll

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Speaker 1: be going out one coming in Kinder and Mitchett Goodell,

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Speaker 1: the Thumber and Mel Parnell and I was the only

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Speaker 1: one winning down and washing time. I'm talking bays Fall,

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Speaker 1: Lazowski Camp and he and talking bays Ball, the Man

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Speaker 1: and Bobby Feller, the Scooter, the barber, Ran the Duke.

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