1 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Official Jets Podcast. Eric Ellen here inside 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: the studio with Joe Cleco, who moves one step closer 3 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, one of three 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: senior finalists. Can you take me through your reaction when 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:27,319 Speaker 1: you got that call? Well, it was uh mediocre type 6 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: reaction to the point because I had told my wife 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: and we have gone through this for so many years 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: now that you know, everybody was painting a rosy picture, 9 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: and of course, oh Joe, I got the feeling, this 10 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: is it, this is it, and I never give into that. 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: So actually, when the time came, I I was busy. 12 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: I kept myself busy on purpose because you know, this year, 13 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame actually changed the format of three 14 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: seniors being voted in, so it was a much better 15 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: chance because I was pretty good finalists last year when 16 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,960 Speaker 1: Cliff Branch got elected, and I was close, you know, 17 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: but you know, I got I got that call that 18 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: time when everybody said would probably be the call and 19 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 1: it didn't work out. So I wasn't expecting really too 20 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: much because I didn't want myself to get too high 21 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: over the whole thing, because listen, this is awesome. But 22 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: when I got the call from porter from the Hall 23 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: of Fame. Uh uh. Gary Myers, who was my advocate there. 24 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: Gary said to me, are you going to be emotional? 25 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: I s just no, I said not, I'm not gonna 26 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: be emotional, and uh it was. It was. It was 27 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: really funny because Divinity said it. You know, my wife, 28 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: who is a very reserved lady, is you know in 29 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: the background, Whore and I were nearly two at home 30 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: and she's jumping up and yelling. Finally, finally, and uh uh. 31 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: At the point when Jim said it, you know, the 32 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: emotions hit me and it was it was a very 33 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: surreal moment. It was like, uh, I never thought it 34 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: would happen. You know, over the years, I've been waiting 35 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: now for what is it almost thirty years since the 36 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 1: day I retired, and you know I was on the 37 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: ballot in the regular time and then on the senior ballot. 38 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: I've been there forever and very close many times. So 39 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 1: it was a great feeling. It was like it really 40 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: was a load off. It was like it's like somebody 41 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: shot me. Almost the relief I got, you know, after 42 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: he said, you know that, Joe, you're one of the finalists, 43 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: and I mean, oh, that's great, you know, and uh, 44 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: it was. It was a good moment. Yeah, he said, 45 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: thirty years since you've been out of the game and 46 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 1: waiting for that call. Um, just the motion in terms 47 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: of everything that you've been through a year after year, 48 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 1: can you take us back what was like waiting for 49 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:55,839 Speaker 1: the call and to hear other people get nominated and then, 50 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: like you said, you probably gotta wonder, hey, it's is 51 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: it ever going to well? You know, and believe it 52 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: or not. I I listened to my wife more than 53 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: people think I do, you know, and she's a very 54 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: good you know, uh decipher of of rhetoric, and uh, 55 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: you know, all the people over the years, and of 56 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: course this is New York and you know, I know 57 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: a lot of the media and the team and everybody else. 58 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: And it was always so don't worry, you're there, You're 59 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: gonna and you know, you'd hear that year after year, 60 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: and especially in the beginning when I was on the 61 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: regular players. Um, a nomination to be the modern day. 62 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: I made the last fifteen I think twice, you know, 63 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: and of course those days, you know, once you get 64 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: the last fifteen, your hopes really got high, because you know, 65 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: they take up the five and you know, I was 66 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: hoping and hoping and hoping, but you know, the call 67 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: never came, and uh, this year, you know, not letting 68 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: myself expected. I really wasn't this year, you know, And 69 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: I think the past four years that have led up 70 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: to this, you know, I've had a lot of great 71 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: feedback from people and stuff to where Joe, I know, 72 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: this is the year, you know, like they had the 73 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: you know, the silver the crystal ball. But my wife 74 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: actually said, she goes, you know, Joe, she goes, I 75 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: don't know, of course she doesn't know, but she said, 76 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: I have a different feeling this year. And I said, well, 77 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: let's keep it under wraps until something happens. But uh, 78 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: you know, she was right. And you know, as a prognosticator, 79 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: she's usually pretty good, and up to now she was, 80 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: you know, and you know she always said to me, Joe, 81 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: maybe the Lord doesn't want you there. I said, well, 82 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: he says, he's he's got commanded pretty a lot of 83 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: things down here, so if he wants it, it it will happen. 84 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: So I guess, you know, I finally got the touch 85 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: and that he actually said, you know, I had that 86 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: feeling about this one it was a good one. Can 87 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: you open the champagne yet, though, because you gotta get 88 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: of the vote and Jan exactly, And no, I can't, 89 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: you know, because you know, you know, maintaining that possibility 90 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: of not still exists, you know, I mean, it doesn't 91 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: happen very often. It has happened, but it doesn't happen 92 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: very often. And what bothers me actually about that is 93 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: when you have one guy who's the nominee, which has 94 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 1: been in the past, it's it's kind of easy to 95 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: just rubber stamp that guy and put him in. But 96 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: now you have three guys, you know, and there's sentimental 97 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: emotions for guys who have been waiting a long time. 98 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: And of course you know, one of the guys is 99 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: deceased now and Chuck Halle is the other one in 100 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, Chucks eighties, six years old, I think, you know. 101 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: So you know, I always I always create this scenario 102 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: in my head that I'm going to be the one 103 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: left out of it. So now I I can't give 104 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: into it yet, I can't give in. I'm very happy 105 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 1: and we all they all talk about you know, Uh, 106 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 1: it's it's just a m you know. Uh. The word 107 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,799 Speaker 1: it's a foregone conclusion. You know that it's going to happen. 108 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: Not me. Um, I'm gonna maintain my stability in that 109 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: it may not happen, and then when it does, I 110 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: can let me. I can say it's going to happen. 111 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: It should happen. It's long overdue. Um. Carl Lawson, who 112 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: is a edge rusher here with the New York Jets, 113 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: who Jets fans are really excited to see him on 114 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: the field in the regular season. He talked to the 115 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: media the other day and he said, no offense to 116 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: you guys, but I don't really get caught up in 117 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: the praise I get from the media. It's more so 118 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: from the guys I played against. Can you speak to 119 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: that because one of the things over the years that 120 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: I was taken aback by when doing work on you, 121 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: because I came in here with the organization two thousand one, 122 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,119 Speaker 1: I didn't get a chance to see you play ree Sunday. 123 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: But talking to your peers and guys who are in 124 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame who lined up against you, said, 125 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: hands down, he should be in the Hall of Fame. 126 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: And it's a slur that Joe Joe Clock was not 127 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame well, and I agreed it 128 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: to that point about the press and the press can 129 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: build you, the press can tear you down. So if 130 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: you allow yourself to get caught into that, you know, uh, 131 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: I guess that comes from being that working class family. Uh, 132 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: you know, the working class you know where you know 133 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: you did your best at your job and even harder 134 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: because you didn't know if you're gonna have a job, 135 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: you know. So I never gave in to anybody's rhetoric 136 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: about you know, oh Joe, you should be But I 137 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: always said what you said is all the guys I 138 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: played against know what I did, you know, and like 139 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: you said, the guys that spoke up for me recently 140 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: and in the John Hannah's uh and then uh Dutch 141 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: Stevenson just spoke about it. And of course Anthony Munios, uh, 142 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: you know, always talked about referred me and Fred Deane 143 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: were the two toughest people that he ever played against. 144 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: That comes from two guys that are considered I think 145 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 1: the top first in a hundred years of professional football 146 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: at their position, and Stevenson, you know, maybe one of 147 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: two that are there. I'd say that carries a pretty 148 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: good amount of validity. You know that you know, he 149 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: wasn't a bad player. You weren't a bad player. But 150 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 1: when we talk about those guys, that speaks to Joe 151 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:54,440 Speaker 1: Klecko because defensive van defensive tackle. And then I thought, 152 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: maybe one of your most oppressive things that you did 153 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: from a position active was playing the nose. Um how 154 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: much did you pride yourself on the versatility and also 155 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: being a team player and being hey, asked to do 156 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: something different a number of times throughout your career and 157 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,959 Speaker 1: not only saying you're gonna do it, but excelling at it. Well, 158 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: that was a that position change there. When Bud Carson 159 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 1: came in as a as a defensive coordinator, he had 160 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: Joe Green with the Steelers in a four man line, 161 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: and Joe played that cock nose position where you know, 162 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: Joe was pretty unstoppable his whole career and getting off 163 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 1: the ball was one of Joe's forts and all, and 164 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: so he started it, you know, and then when he 165 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: gave it to me, I played it in the three 166 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: man line. But one of the great things that Bud 167 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: allowed me to do is he allowed me I had 168 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: the two a gap to cover, you know, from either 169 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: if I cocked on the left or the right side, 170 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: I still had to cover both a gaps. But I 171 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,959 Speaker 1: gave a lot of people so many fits closed. Bud 172 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: Carson gave me the leeway when I moved to those 173 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: I didn't think too much about. You know, I wasn't 174 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: going to make this, you know, into a stardom role 175 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: because of oh my god, you know those tackles fodder. 176 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: You know, you're getting there to take blocks for the 177 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: linebackers to make play. But then as he allowed me 178 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: to play it in a certain way, I I just 179 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: I turned loose. I mean, you know, when you game 180 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: plan against the team, you know their right hand and 181 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: left hand, and they run the ball here in certain 182 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: formations and so forth, and I would go against that grain, 183 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: and Bud would say, Joe, why did you do that? 184 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 1: I said, Bud, look at the line, look at the 185 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: running backers. What's that He's looking at the hole. And 186 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: he'd run the film and he sees. That's why he 187 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: always wanted me a game plan if they were right 188 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: handed with the tight end, to stay to that side 189 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: or to stay to the other side, you know, and 190 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: re ca havoc whatever I could by coming up the 191 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: ball real hard. But I said to my you know, 192 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, and you always watch film, and you know 193 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: the little things you pick up, you know, you got 194 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: to use in a game. Like one of the guys 195 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: that was a guard here years ago, Teddy Banker. I 196 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: helped him so much in the process, and we'd be 197 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: practiced against each other. Teddy, you're pulling, because how do 198 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: you see that? How do you know that? You you know? 199 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: And as you tell you, Teddy, you can't set like that, 200 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: You're you're gonna set as someone run you over. He goes, 201 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: how do you know? You know? And it's just the 202 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 1: things you pick up over the years being being a 203 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 1: player that it really helped you. And and really the 204 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: greatest thing, and I never ever said this to anybody, 205 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 1: is the quarterback isn't allowed an advantage step. The quarterback 206 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: under center can pull out his right foot before the 207 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: ball is snapped. Well, if you if you're a nose 208 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 1: tackle in a composition, that big gap that you have 209 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 1: between the garden the center, the first thing I'm looking 210 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: at the feet of the quarterback. And Marino was was 211 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: very good at getting out early because he used that well. 212 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: It also, I didn't let to be known, but it 213 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: was an advantage for me because I would I would 214 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: take off on their foot, not on the ball. And 215 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: the thing about it was is, you know, I anticipated 216 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: a lot of things, and I knew where the ball 217 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: was going most of the time, or if it was, 218 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: where they were throwing a ball. So it gave me 219 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: that great advantage to get off the ball. We could 220 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: speak for hours, we could speak for days. We have 221 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: so many times over the years. With that being said, 222 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: let's just get to a couple of things here. One, 223 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: what was that like twenty and a half sacks, first 224 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: guy to twenty and also playing not just along with 225 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,599 Speaker 1: your second Chean's teammates, but across town Laura's taller was 226 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: having a any good year himself? Right? Yeah? How much 227 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: did you monitor that? Your damn you know. I think 228 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: later in that in the in that year or something 229 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: like that, I think it was Sports Illustrated that had 230 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: an article in it um Heart and Soul of New 231 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: York Football, and they had me as the heart and 232 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: and and Lawrence's soul, you know, and uh, you know, 233 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: going back and forth during that year, you know, people 234 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: compared his his ability to do things, and he was young. 235 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: It was I don't know if his rookie year or not. 236 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: Uh it might have been. But uh, you know, uh 237 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: I told him at the time, I made the a 238 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: f C Defensive Player of the Year, and he made 239 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: the NFL Defense Player the Year. I said, how could 240 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: you give it to a rookie? You know? But uh, yeah, 241 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: that was that was something we talked about back then, 242 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: even because of that article of heart and soul of 243 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 1: the New York Football. What do you like playing bust? 244 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: Out of the three positions, believe or not, I'd like 245 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: to play the nose tackle because it, first of all, 246 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: I was I was foot loose and fancy free. I 247 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: could do whatever I want, and I was, you know, 248 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: quick enough and strong enough to do whatever I wanted 249 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: with the offensive line inside. I mean, believe me, there's 250 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: times that you know, I got tied up, and but 251 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: there's times I tied up three people sometimes too, you know, 252 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: which made it easy for everybody behind me. Uh. Defensive 253 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: and of course I love the freedom to run up 254 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: field and you're going to throw the football, but you 255 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: know you better pay attention to me inside you know 256 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: about sacks, because you know, I mean I would make 257 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: if you left me on with the center. I had 258 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: my my my way, but they always had a double team, 259 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: and they had to because basically the center was especially 260 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: I was on his right hand. He was ready hand snapper. 261 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: You know, here's a disadvantage right away when I enjoyed 262 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: the nose tackle position to most. Yeah, but I get 263 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: mad when people just talk about you and the first 264 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: thing they say said, well, yeah, that's great, he did 265 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: get to the quarterback. But when you look at those 266 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: run numbers, where the Jets ranked with the rushed defense, 267 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: even you playing the nose, it was right up there 268 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: because you're penetrating, you're getting into the quarterback. But the 269 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: guys behind you, Butts, Greg Bottle, Lancemell, he was a 270 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: pro bowler one here, and you saw the Jets rush defense, 271 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: you got hurt. I think it was late and eighties six. 272 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: Your rush defense was number one in the National Football 273 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: League when you were playing no tackle right. Well, the 274 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: thing about it was, I always listen, them guys are 275 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: gonna have more view of everything is because they're standing up. 276 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: And the one thing I would never let happen, and 277 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: they you see it called today a good bit too, 278 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: is I dragged guys down. I would like if I 279 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: knew kind of where it was going and snapping the ball, 280 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: you could feel everything. So if the guard was trying 281 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,359 Speaker 1: to get off of me to get to the linebacker, 282 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: I usually had him tied up. But if I didn't, 283 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean grabbed by the belt, by his pads, 284 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: whatever it was, ild him down. Because then I remember 285 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: John Woodring who was one of the middle linebackers back 286 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: up that played with us, And we're up against New 287 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 1: England and and I got into game, and uh I 288 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: was hurt the first two games. Sometimes I was why 289 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: I wasn't in there, I don't remember, but uh I 290 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: came into game and first thing was a toss, you 291 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: know outside, and I wouldn't like I got pulled the 292 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: guard down, and and Woodring's running by and go wait 293 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: they go click, you know, and he he runs by me. 294 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: And you know, I was into keeping them guys clean 295 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: more than they knew. And Lance smell you know, Lance 296 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: played behind me for a few years. And Lance absolutely 297 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: enjoyed that freedom that I gave him because I would 298 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: not let and they if they figured out they were 299 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: going to try and block people the tight end, that 300 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: was a joke, you know. So if they figured out 301 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: they had a double me. Then it made his life 302 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: that much easier. And uh and as long as they 303 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: stayed on me, I mean, he had freedom. He would 304 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: run all defensive linemen. Talk about the importance of hands. 305 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: You talk about your amateur boxing background and how that 306 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: may have helped you. And also, well let's start there 307 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: before we get to a guy by the name of 308 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: Jim Jones from Poland University. Well, hands, you know I 309 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 1: watched nowadays, you know, so many guys teach it, the 310 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: coaches and everything like that. And uh, I remember getting 311 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: I was talking to I'm not gonna tell you who 312 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: they were, a couple of defensive line coaches. You know 313 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: that we're in the NFL. That kind. I says, you 314 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: can't do that. I says, if you do this with 315 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: your hands, this and that. He goes. I say, you'll 316 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: win every time and you'll do good. And they would 317 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: dispute it. You gotta come off the ball, I said, 318 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: you move your feet first, You're dead. What that's you know? 319 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: That was the teaching of ever get off the ball, 320 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: you know, and with your feet. No if if you 321 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: come off the ball and you make the wrong step, 322 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: and then the guard attacker center makes the right step, 323 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: you're already out basically two steps from where you have 324 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: to go. But if your hands come out first and 325 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 1: you catch up to them and you read them, you're 326 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: in front of him, you're knocking them down. You're way 327 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: ahead of the game. Hands also, pass rushing. What's the 328 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: biggest thing that offensive lineman want to do? They want 329 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: to stick you in the show. And you know, they'll 330 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: tell you these areas in the pad or handles they're 331 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: they're meant to hang on to and that's the game today. 332 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: They get you and they hold on. Now you see 333 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: all these great pass rushers, you know, uh what you know? 334 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,400 Speaker 1: His big thing his hands and uh bosed the whole 335 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: thing with hands and Aaron Donald. Everything's about hands, you know, 336 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: and it's amazing. Like I said, I was trying to 337 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,479 Speaker 1: tell these guys these things years ago. Do you remember 338 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: Dan Rada Covid who coached with us here for years. 339 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: Bad Rad was a coach for the Steelers during the 340 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: seventies and the offensive line and he's the one that 341 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: started the shirts and and being tying them up. You 342 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: couldn't grab him at all. And uh, when Rad came 343 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: here with me, my hands were exceptionally and quick, because 344 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: oh I did one of my in my workouts is 345 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: I punched a bag, always punched the heavy bag. And 346 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: read came in and he's in meeting one day and 347 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: he goes, I can't believe it because what's that? And 348 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: he goes, Mirror Merrow on the wall? Who has I 349 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: went home last night? He said, And I said, Mirror 350 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 1: Merrow on the wall, who has the greatest hands of all? 351 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,239 Speaker 1: And that mirror always said bad Rad last night, had 352 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: said Joe Cleco. I always done. Uh, well, were you like? 353 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: It's a boxer. I enjoyed it, you know, I mean 354 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: I I had one, I lost one fight, you know. 355 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: And then uh but I had a friend of mine, 356 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: Jack Merk and Dandy, who was a pro fighter I 357 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: worked with years ago, and he started me as a 358 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,480 Speaker 1: kid in all. And you know, it's nice to punch 359 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 1: bags and on going to gym and punch a bag, 360 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,159 Speaker 1: but it's different when you get punched, you know what 361 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: I mean. So when you get punched, you learned to 362 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: protect yourself a lot more. And uh, you know, I 363 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: I sparred a lot with Jerry Cooney, and uh, I 364 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: had my times you that I was with professional fighters 365 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: a lot, and you learned how tough you're not, because 366 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: if anybody is a pro fighter walking that street, he 367 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: ain't worried about nobody else because he's good at what 368 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: he does. But uh, you know, the one thing that 369 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: I always worked on was actually people hitting me, because 370 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: you learned how to protect yourself and that makes your 371 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: hands faster. And then of course punching the bags. But 372 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: it was a skill that I learned by getting punched 373 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: and that was the best part. Speaking of fighting, six 374 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: round pick out of Temple. So you go there to 375 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: Hofstra first training camp. Your mentality was what, well, my 376 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: mentality was, I was a little upset that I was 377 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: drafted in sixth round, and my mentality was that if 378 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: I don't make this team, you're gonna know I was 379 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: here for some reason or another. So you know, uh, 380 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: the dispute of anybody on the field holding and so forth. 381 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: You know, I never let that happen. And I was 382 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: in a few scuffles at my time, but you were 383 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: in some early scuffles, all correct. Oh yeah, yeah, I 384 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: I listen. I was never gonna let anybody get away 385 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,360 Speaker 1: with anything, and if it, whether it brought the attention 386 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: of the coaches or not. I was gonna let them 387 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: know what kind of person I was on the field. Now, 388 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: off the field, I was a different guy. But on 389 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 1: the field I was I was not going to be 390 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: I was not gonna be toyed with. You say yeah 391 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: for some of our younger viewers and listeners right now 392 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: checking out the podcast, who was Jim Jones from Paulin University? 393 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: And how was this character created? Well? Uh, when I 394 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: left high school, I didn't get any offers to go 395 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: to college, you know. And then, Uh, the greatest story 396 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: about it is how I started, and I'll do this 397 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: real quick is Uh, I was in a softball game 398 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 1: one time and the fellow came up. There was coaching 399 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: a Sandlot semi pro football team, and he said to me, Joe, 400 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: a lot of eyes from your ex classes and some 401 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: other guys would come out. Why don't you come out? 402 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: So I did. I went out to the practice field 403 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: and Uh, I pulled up my car and I was 404 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 1: a very very timid guy, really was, and I said, 405 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 1: I'm not going out there. And my wife at the time, 406 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: my girlfriend, took my keys out of ignition and threw 407 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: them out the window and I looked at her and 408 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: I said, why did you do that? And the more 409 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: explicit than that, uh, she said, you gotta go get them. 410 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: So she knew if I went out there to get them, 411 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: they would see me and the guy. Come over. Joe, Joe, 412 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: come on, I said, And I looked back at her like, 413 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: wait till I get back out, you know. And needless 414 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: to say, that was the beginning of Jim Jones. What 415 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: it was was the owners of the team came up 416 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: to me and said, Joe, we're not gonna put your 417 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: name in the program, just in case you have a 418 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: chance to go back to college, because some guys on 419 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: that team got paid and it was a professional it 420 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 1: was called the Professional Seaboard League, and they said that, 421 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 1: you know, if if, if there's a problem, you're not 422 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: gonna be able to go to colle and so they said, 423 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: why don't you go under Jim Jones from Poland University? 424 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: Not me. I didn't know that better is it? That 425 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: sounds great? So Jim Jones was born on the sand 426 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: lot on the practice field of the Aston Knights. How 427 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,719 Speaker 1: crazy is that looking back now with all the social media, 428 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: like you never be able to pull something off like 429 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: that today, No, they know your jock size, where you 430 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: come from, where you're boring everything. Today there's so much 431 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: coverage and stuff. But as it went down, you know, 432 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: and the problem of it is is, you know, nobody 433 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: really picked. I did have a problem within in college 434 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: though the n c A did look into it, but 435 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,719 Speaker 1: it was squashed and there was no problem. But today 436 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: you'd never get away with that. Did they hold that 437 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 1: against you? Do you think you can't get into voters minds? 438 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: But I think over the years people had said to 439 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: me that, well, maybe he doesn't have a ring, but 440 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: it was super bowling. But when I look at your career, 441 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: what I think people forget is that the Jets had 442 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: such a wide gap of not even making the postseason 443 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: and you be team part of a team of a 444 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 1: culture where you guys got back in the mix and 445 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: you were in the postseason a number of times. You're 446 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: talking about like eleven twelve years consecutively. The Jets had 447 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 1: not been in the postseason before you started there, right, Well, 448 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 1: the thing about it was with us, I think from 449 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: a defensive standpoint, you know, and and I think it 450 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: carried over to our offense, especially in the defensive standpoint. 451 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: You know, when we became the sack exchange, we actually 452 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: pulled into identity into our defense, you know, and basically 453 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: it's great to know, really as a defensive back that 454 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 1: they've got three seconds or less to get rid of 455 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: this thing, you know, because we're gonna have our way 456 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: with the quarterback. And that made a big deal of 457 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: our guys taking chances. Like if you talked to uh 458 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: Kenny Schureer Dowray, who were the safeties at that time. 459 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: You know, you you know, you're playing, you know, whether 460 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: it be two or one coverage or whatever, and you're 461 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: is backpedaling to make sure nobody's behind you. You know, 462 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,679 Speaker 1: you can take chances on jumping certain rats and stuff 463 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: that they were privy to throw because we were gonna 464 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: have either them on the run or on his back, 465 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: and that that was a big deal and that that 466 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: passed over to our offensive line. You gotta remember, they 467 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: had a practice against us every day and you know, 468 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: unlike today, I don't know how many two days you run, 469 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: but you know, we had six weeks or two days. 470 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: We came out during the week and we had we 471 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: had live pass protection, you know, every single day almost 472 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: and that made our offensive line really damn good, because 473 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: not for not having to bar block, the four of 474 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: us was a lot harder than a lot of teams 475 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: they would come against. And I just think the mentality 476 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: of our defensive line took over for the team and 477 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: made it better. Two quick ones. We gotta let you 478 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 1: go out to practice New York's sack exchange. When you 479 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: hear that phrase, that term what imediately comes to mind 480 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:08,360 Speaker 1: a smile really because you know, uh, a catchy name, 481 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: a great time. You know, we we came this close 482 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: to breaking the sacker record back then. I don't even 483 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: know what it is now. I think we had in 484 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: that year sixty eight or sixty nine sacks or something 485 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,679 Speaker 1: like that, and uh, we missed it by one or 486 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: something of a team for not having the record, But 487 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: nobody has ever done to what Mark and I did 488 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: as far as two guys on the same team having 489 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: twenty sacks and understanding that they threw the ball back 490 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: then at a time too. Now they threw the ball 491 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: seventy percent at a time. You know that that has 492 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: a lot to say for what the sack exchange was. 493 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: And you gotta remember, too, they didn't get away with 494 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: running draws and things like that, because Marty and Abdul 495 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: covered it up for us so well that we could 496 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: turn it loose, you know, and you know, you know 497 00:26:57,760 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 1: you can't let him outside here or some way. Well, 498 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: we take the chances to where if we knew we 499 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: could get there, we would break the rules. As you say, 500 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: as far as defensive play goes, but when you talk 501 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: about the sack exchange, everybody knows who it is. Yeah, 502 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: and what do you think about this guy out here, 503 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: Robert Sale. I ask you that because I think you 504 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: would have loved playing for him, because everything that he 505 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: talks about is impacting the quarterback playing defensive violently. And 506 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: when he was speaking about a rookie the other day, 507 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,479 Speaker 1: he said, you have to go through people. Joe Klocko 508 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: always could go through people. Yeah. Well, the thing about 509 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: it is is, you know, defensive football should be intimidation. 510 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 1: It should, and you're not gonna be intimidated by somebody 511 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: by you know, taking the short route out. You know, 512 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: making somebody pay a price on the field against you 513 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: is basically what you want. And as far as far 514 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: as him as a head coach, I mean, when he 515 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: got the head coaching job, I talked to a lot 516 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: of guys, which you know, the announcers are in the 517 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: world are all friends of mine, and I talked about him, 518 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: and you know we heard a lot because they were 519 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,479 Speaker 1: in the playoffs a lot. As far as the defense 520 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: quarter coordinator, he got a great nod. But the one 521 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: thing they talked about with me with him was he 522 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: always had these guys ready to play for him. He 523 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: he is, you know, as far as a motivator he goes, 524 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: his defensive guys would run for a wall for him. 525 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: And I think that's the one thing I said since 526 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: day one. You can go back and look at interviews 527 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: with me. Ever, the one thing a head coach has 528 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 1: to do is get you ready to play. If he 529 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: never touches the excess and those if he has you 530 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: ready to tear down the walls before you walk out 531 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: onto that field, you got a chance. Well you got 532 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: a hell of a chance. Sir Joe Claco one of 533 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: three senior finalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. 534 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: It's gonna happen in January. That vote takes place when 535 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: you're gonna get eight percent of the vote, and then 536 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: we're gonna see you in Canton in I can't wait 537 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: to watch you put on the jacket. Great scenia, Thanks man, 538 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: and I can't wait either m hm.