1 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and this is Math and Welcome 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: to Stuff I Never told your production of I Heart 3 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: Radio and Stop Works. For this this Saturday, we thought 4 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: we would rerun this classic episode that Caroline did around 5 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: queer fashion as activism, and she sat down with a 6 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: bunch of really rad people and discussed what that what 7 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: that looks like? Yes? Um, And so we hope you 8 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: enjoy Welcome to Stuff MOB Never Told You from how 9 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: stupp works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 10 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen, and today we're continuing our've 11 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: dived this week into discussing queer fashion, but this time 12 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: we're doing it with a couple of special guests who 13 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: we first started speaking with well via email. During south 14 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: By Southwest, we try to get in touch with some 15 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: awesome folks in the queer fashion community, but you know, 16 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: south By Southwest it's so busy, and we missed them, 17 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: We missed their panel, and so we were really lucky 18 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: and managed to nab them for a fantastic interview that 19 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: we hope you guys will enjoy. And so today you 20 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: will be hearing from Leon Wu, the founder and CEO 21 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: of Sharp Suiting, Sunny or Um, the founding editor of 22 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: style website Queer, and Asia Igire, the beauty editor of 23 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: Auto Straddle, and you mentioned south By Southwest Caroline and 24 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: that we unfortunately were not able to go to their panel, 25 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: which we did want to attend because it was about 26 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: queer style, visual active m and Fashions Frontier. So, uh, 27 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 1: this group and also Um the designer who started dapper q, 28 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: which is the leading style website for masculine presenting women 29 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: and trans identified people, were talking all about this concept 30 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: of queer style as an art form, and also the 31 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: new fashion frontier and and another branch of this too 32 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: is how mainstream fashion has kind of been co opting 33 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: a lot of queer fashion. So um, I think it's 34 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: such a great opportunity to get this diverse range of 35 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: perspectives and one that we started hearing from actually from 36 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: our listeners in response to our maternity Clothes Fashion History 37 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: episode a while back. Yeah, that's right. We heard from 38 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: some great fashion leaning listeners after that episode who had 39 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: created maternity lines specifically for uh, butch lesbians or masculine 40 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: identifying people, or really anyone who felt that they didn't 41 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: quite fit into that frills and polka dots maternity market 42 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: out there, and they stressed how important it was to 43 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,359 Speaker 1: represent those people whoever, those people are who who are 44 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: often left behind in conversations about fashion or just in 45 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: looking at fashion in general. And so that's why we 46 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: were really excited to speak with this group today because, 47 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: like Kristen said, they do have a diverse array of 48 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: backgrounds from being active in design to being active in 49 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: the media talking about fashion. So in this conversation, which 50 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: is really a continuation of our last podcast, which was 51 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: about how Prince revolutionize the concept of androgynous fashion, so 52 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: you should absolutely go back and listen to that for 53 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: I mean a Prince, but also a little bit of 54 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: a primer on queer fashion. UM. But we're going to 55 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: be talking with first of all, Leon Wu. Like you said, 56 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: he's a founder and CEO of Sharp Suiting, which is 57 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: an a gender luxury clothing brand that creates custom and 58 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 1: ready to wear clothing, accessories and lifestyle products. And Sharp 59 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 1: Suiting is especially busy right now because swimsuit season is 60 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: upon us and it's actually the first clothing company to 61 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: focus on butch swimwear. UM and as part of creating 62 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: this ready to wear line and also custom clothing. They 63 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: created a high tech body measurement system to better fit 64 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: clothes on masculine identifying people not just butch, lesbians or transman, 65 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: but also sis men as well. So I mean talk 66 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: about taking all sorts of body types and presentations into account. Yeah, 67 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: And Sunny Lauram is a queer style expert who founded 68 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: that style website Quere that I mentioned in tw then 69 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: and they're the first trans blogger to be sponsored by 70 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: top Man. And Sunny described their goal in founding queer 71 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:16,040 Speaker 1: as fighting oppression through fashion because they said fashion can 72 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: absolutely be a form of activism and this is something 73 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: that we'll talk with all three guests about in more 74 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: detail in the episode. Well, and that also echoes our 75 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: episode from a while back on so called faction and 76 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: the plus size blogging movement that really started a number 77 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: of years ago and it's coming to its own um 78 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: quite recently. Um. And then finally we have Asia Agrey, 79 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: who's the beauty editor at auto Straddle, which is a 80 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: site that we have referenced on so many stuff I've 81 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: never told you episodes, And in addition to auto Straddle, 82 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: Asia also leads the style blog Fit for fem and 83 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: as an advocate for queer women of color. Yeah, so 84 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: this is such a fantastic conversation, if do say so myself, 85 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: thanks to our really fascinating and talented guests. So should 86 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: we let the people hear it? Absolutely, let's roll to 87 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: get started. I'd love to have you guys just introduced 88 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: yourselves and tell our listeners what you do. So, Sonny, 89 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: we'll start with you. Hi. I'm Sonny or might run 90 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,799 Speaker 1: the fashion website quare q w E a R. And 91 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: it's a style website for people who transcend social norms 92 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:36,239 Speaker 1: through fashion, performance and gender expression. And I'm based in Boston. 93 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: I am Asia Giray. I am the current beauty editor 94 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: at Auto Straddle, which is the largest independent news media 95 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 1: website for queer women as well as the gosh. I 96 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: guess to call me the founding editor of Fit for 97 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: a FM, which I've been working on since two thousand 98 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: and eight as a as a place and source of 99 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: inspiration for fens to gather and get inspiration and just 100 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: kind of find their own people when it comes to 101 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: style and navigating the world as a fem My name 102 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: is Leon Woo and I am the founder and CEO 103 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: Sharp And that's sharp with an E at the end 104 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: uh suiting, and we make classic and modern clothing for 105 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: all genders. Okay, so if you could also now fill 106 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: me in on your backgrounds how I'm really curious about 107 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: how you guys each ended up in the fashion and 108 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: fashion adjacent realms. Sunny, do you want to start? Yeah? 109 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: So I kind of fell into it. Um. I was 110 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: doing music in college, and then when I graduated, I 111 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: started exploring my identity and style more and I kind 112 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: of just fell into it. I discovered fashion blogging, and 113 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: I decided to try to create a space that was 114 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: uniquely queer where we could all see each other and 115 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: where I could share my outfits and I was discovering 116 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: I loved and then it just it just grew from there. 117 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: I just kept kept blogging, and people wrote in and 118 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: asked questions, and people started writing for us, and it 119 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: grew into what it is today. Did you find that 120 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: people really felt that they needed what you were putting 121 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: out there? Yeah? People were immediately drawn to it because 122 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: there was so little, um advice for for queer people. Um, 123 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: I mean, for for me representing people who are female 124 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: assigned birth, but trying to find man's clothes that fit 125 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: that was really like, um, that was a need. I mean, 126 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: we didn't have companies like Sharp yet, so people just 127 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: wanted any advice they could get. What about you, Asia, 128 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: How did you end up in the fashion realm? Kind 129 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 1: of a similar story? Um? In two thousand eight, what 130 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 1: I started style blogs or both new and really sort 131 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: of blowing up an biguitus everywhere. And I didn't see 132 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: myself in any of them. I didn't. I didn't see 133 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: a lot of women of color to start, and I 134 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: didn't really see any that were queer women, especially queer 135 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: women of color. And I've been the kind of person 136 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: that people always have been like, I love what you're wearing, 137 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: I love your makeup, I love this and that, and 138 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: who came to me for advice and wanted me to 139 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: go shopping with them? Um? And so I thought, like, 140 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: I love this and I should just put it out 141 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: there into the world, um and see what happens. I 142 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: didn't have any real kind of like lofty expectations. I 143 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: just wanted to like stake out my place in the 144 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: world of style blogs because it seemed like something really 145 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: fun and cool and and I thought it would be great, 146 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: um if I did it. Then maybe other women would 147 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: do it, and that definitely happened, especially in San Francisco. 148 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: A way back in the day you had UM Lesbians 149 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: and s f UM, which had a couple of other 150 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: offshoots that just became sort of a very photo heavy 151 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: representation of queer women UM and queer and trance people 152 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: actually and what that style looked like at the time. 153 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: And then from there there were a few other ones 154 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: that were more plus sized fems and more focused on 155 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: firms of color. UM. So it was really great to 156 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,239 Speaker 1: see myself become not the only one out there UM. 157 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 1: And that just over time, with the fem conferences that 158 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: used to go on, and UM auto straddle coming into 159 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: play and working on things with them and writing for 160 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: them a little bit, just all kinds of snowballed into 161 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: this awesome thing where another beauty editor, why do you 162 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: think a blog like fit for fem or auto straddle? 163 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: Why is it important to show feminine fashion that's different 164 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: from like more traditional quote unquote beauty magazines like Glamour? 165 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: How did how did those differ from the more mainstream 166 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: feminine fashion? Right, and not to insinuate that straight feminine 167 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: women are just sort of blindly doing what they're told 168 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: or anything. But I think especially for fems, and this 169 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: was really highlighted in the post that Sunny did featuring 170 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: fourteen fans of color that was just incredible. Um. Being fem, 171 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 1: as a queer woman or a trans woman is so 172 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: radical in its reclamation of femininity and in sort of 173 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: hijacking it away from a very heterosexual world, in a 174 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: very sort of binary world that has very very strong 175 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: and pervasive ideas about what women are supposed to look 176 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: and act like. Um. And it's interesting being a mother 177 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: of a straight teenager as well, watching how that influence 178 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: in the media and the media representation of women in 179 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: general is so negative and so laden with with just 180 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: these horrible ideas that that tell women what they're supposed 181 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: to look and act like. And I feel like when 182 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: as a queer woman or a trans woman, you embrace 183 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 1: all of that immenity um, both inside and outside Esthetically, 184 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: it's it says a lot. It's it's a very political statement, 185 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: and it is really difficult to navigate the world in 186 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 1: that way because at the first glance, the first take 187 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: is sort of like, this is for male consumption, this 188 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: is for the male gaze, um, and constantly fighting against 189 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: that is you have to be really strong to do that. Yeah, 190 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: I definitely want to put a pen in the political 191 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: statement comment for sure. Um. But Leon, I want you 192 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: to tell our listeners how you got involved in the 193 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: fashion world. Yes, so ever since I was little, I've 194 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: always have a strong desire or love for menous where 195 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: um like, I wanted to wear my dad's clothes growing up. Um, 196 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: I would actually literally sneak into his closet and try 197 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: on his clothes, put on his ties, you know, always 198 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: watch him tie and tie in the mirror. I was 199 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: just fascinated by it. And you know, I'd read kind 200 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: of g Q like on my owner in secret as 201 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: I was growing up. And um, you know, when I 202 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,959 Speaker 1: was twenty one, just out of college, I joined a 203 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: draging troop called the Lost Boys in Los Angeles, and 204 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: through there, you know, I kind of learned the art 205 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: of of styling or fashioning masculinity on stage. I quickly 206 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: became the one who was the organizer of all costumes 207 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: for my troop. Um. That later extended throughout the years 208 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,719 Speaker 1: and I joined another troop called the Beauty Kings of 209 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: Los Angeles as well, and became a co producer of 210 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: a show that's a queer gender bending show called Bent. 211 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: So you know that all of that has kind of 212 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: progressed up through about a year ago when Sharp got 213 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: crazy busy, um in a good way. Uh. And you know, 214 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: in terms of Sharp and how that started, you know, UM, 215 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: I did have a fashion design concept right before I 216 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: went to business school called Fade Designs, and we focused 217 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 1: on kind of butched swimwear as an alternative means of 218 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: of you know, wearing uh swimsuits that did not fit 219 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: into the very binary um swimwear uh industry. So uh, 220 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: that was about to go into production, and then instead 221 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: I went to business school and that was super busy 222 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: and all I could do is focus on networking and 223 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: meeting my classmates and recruiting there um and studying. Uh. 224 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: And then after business school, you know, I got kind 225 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: of comfortable my rather corporate job right after. But then 226 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: you know, more and more of my friends are getting 227 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: married or attending weddings where they wanted to wear suits. 228 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,239 Speaker 1: And I had made some connections in school with Taylor's 229 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: in various cities internationally. Um, during my travels. It was 230 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: just something I was checked out when I was on 231 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: a business school trek or trip with my classmates, I 232 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: would talk to different Taylor's UM. I talked to Taylor's 233 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: in Savile Row, in London, UH, in Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, 234 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: New York UH, and you know something, I noticed that 235 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: there was always a specific process that they all did 236 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: as a rather archaic um UH segment of fashion, and 237 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: I wanted to kind of revolutionize that. I also knew 238 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: a special way and how to measure people who identified 239 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: similar as me, like people who identify as either masculine 240 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: of center, masculine leaning, or trans men. And I knew 241 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: how to fit clothes on people who identified exactly this way. 242 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: So UM I started Sharp actually as a side operation, 243 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: and UM started making suits for friends and myself. Again, 244 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: wedding was a big reason for doing that, and within 245 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: the first year of UH existing as a business, we 246 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: sold a hundred suits. And that's when I kind of 247 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: took the leap of faith to leave my very financially 248 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: secure corporate job and jump full time into Sharp. We 249 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: had a Kickstarter that we planned for within the first 250 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: two months, and we raised six nine K, exceeding our 251 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: goal of six c K, and after that we raised 252 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: some more funds from friends and family, and you know 253 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: the rest is kind of it just kind of took 254 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: off and and we're heading in a direction where uh, 255 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: we are being all inclusive. Uh not just two people 256 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: in my immediate community, but anybody who wants to wear 257 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: sharp cloth clothing. So you'll see a lot of campaigns 258 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: this year where we are branching out a little bit 259 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: more um mainstream and trying to get them to be 260 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: aware of, uh you know, what the brand is and 261 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: what it was inspired by. Okay, well so and really 262 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 1: anybody can pick up this question who wants to go first? 263 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: But I'm really interested in how uh you guys feel 264 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: the queer fashion scene has changed, evolved and grown from 265 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: when you first developed an interest in close and fashion, um, 266 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: all the way up to when you started working professionally 267 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: and and now today. I mean I've seen a huge 268 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: evolution just from when I started queer and it's now 269 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: been almost five years. Even looking for people to feature, 270 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,719 Speaker 1: it was hard to find people who really had their 271 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 1: own sense of style, um, because when when there's so 272 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: little representation of queer style, you, um, it's hard to 273 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: figure out how to address I mean, like you're there's 274 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: like Shane from The L Word, and then you know 275 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: Ellen Degenerous, and it's just like these a few celebrities 276 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 1: here and there. And then I mean, of course we 277 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: had had Asia already for for fem style, but yeah, 278 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: it's just people didn't really know how to dress and 279 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: we're asking lots of questions, simple questions like how do 280 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: I match my belt to my shoes or something. And 281 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: as time went on, I started to see a growth 282 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: in everyone. Um they started experimenting with patterns, with different styles, 283 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: and it just seemed like the queer community through social 284 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: media was starting to develop a sense of style. And 285 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: it's just been really amazing to watch everyone grow. Every year, 286 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: someone comes out with something different and it's just really amazing. 287 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: I um, Leon, when you did all the drag troops, 288 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 1: was that like the early two thousands, mid mid two thousand's. Yes, Yeah, 289 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: I feel like I came out way too late in life. 290 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: It's one of my big regrets. I didn't know, but 291 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 1: I feel like I came out in the very early 292 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 1: two thousand's and just sort of belossomed a time through 293 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: the mid to to late two thousand's when something just 294 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: really special was happening in the queer queer world in 295 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: terms of just like creativity and performance and music and 296 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: and that's so much of that manifested in style. Um. 297 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: I feel so lucky to have been there for all 298 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 1: of that, and I miss There's a lot I miss 299 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: about those days. There's a lot that I'm happy to 300 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: leave in the past. But I just I don't know 301 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: what's happened, And I think that there's a lot of 302 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: really incredible stuff happening now. But it's almost like, because 303 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: there was so much that we still were working towards 304 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: and fighting for as a queer community at large, those 305 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 1: spaces and that community was sacred in a different way, 306 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: and and because it was almost denser, it was more 307 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: powerful in those sort of create creative realms. Not that 308 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: that doesn't exist now. I just feel like it's become 309 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: more dilute across board, which is great because it means 310 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: that it's reaching more people and people have more options 311 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 1: and more roads to go down. But yeah, it's it's 312 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: been a very interesting shift, I think the last ten 313 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: ten or so years. Yeah, Um, I have to agree 314 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: with both Sonny and Asia. I have seen a lot 315 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: of developments since the two thousand's. Um. But I feel 316 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: like the biggest movement is definitely happening right now. I 317 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that I started I tried to start a 318 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: design concept right before I headed off to business school, 319 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: which is around two thousand and five two thousand six, 320 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: Me and another friend who was very passionate about queer 321 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: fashion of Vanessa Craig actually co produced what could have 322 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: been one of the first butch fashion shows, although I'm 323 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: sure other things were happening in various cities. Um. And 324 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: you know, it's mostly our friends in the community that 325 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: came out to support that, and it was a really 326 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: great event that I felt very fulfilled with. But it 327 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 1: was hard to bring that outside of the scope of 328 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: the community. And I think right now, because things are 329 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: really versioning, is it is a time to to do that. 330 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: And so that's what I'm trying to do with Sharp 331 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: is basically bring social impact through commerce and expand a 332 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: little bit further so people are more aware of these 333 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: other identities. UM. And there's so many, as you can see, 334 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: with all the various queer fashion brands that are out there, UM, 335 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: I can probably count at least you know, thirty, probably 336 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: fifty of them out there in the US and Canada 337 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: and UM, all of these different brands in a sense 338 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: represent a different type of identity in in the queer 339 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: fashion space, and you know, uh, people are more interested there. 340 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: I think people are wanting to see more than the 341 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: standard UM offering that's currently in the fact fashion industry 342 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: and UM. You know, I'm just kind of writing this 343 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: wave and seeing where it goes and finally having a 344 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 1: chance to to fulfill my passion wi Lee on how 345 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: big is the queer fashion designing community and what is 346 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: funding like? I mean, is it the same for more 347 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: quote unquote mainstream fashion. Yeah. So I will start out 348 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: by saying that UM, finding capital UM for fashion brands 349 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: is particularly hard in general if you're just looking across 350 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: the various UH industries for startups. UM. That said, being 351 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: a queer fashion brand adds another layer of challenges to it. 352 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: I think that people are more technology focused, So the 353 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: fact that Sharp is moving more UM and opening up 354 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: our line of business to e commerce certainly helps. But 355 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: if you're just a brick and mortar fashion brand, it's 356 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: very very difficult. I mentioned before that we raised we 357 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: surpassed our goal for Kickstarter, and that's because we have 358 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: enormous support from the community, and that was really exciting 359 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: for me to see. Um, we had some support and 360 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: we raised over a hundred k from friends of family, 361 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 1: and now we're expanding to you know and in a 362 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: sense cold pitching to the average person. And that is 363 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: definitely experienced because, um, I have to sit there and 364 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: explain exactly how we were inspired and what the background 365 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: of our story is, and then I have to kind 366 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: of bridge the gap and say why are how are 367 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: we going to become successful as you know any x 368 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: y Z fashion brand out there? Um, So that's definitely 369 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: the challenges that I'm facing right now. But I think, um, 370 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: you know, with our expansion, which you're gonna see on 371 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: e commerce, uh, that I think we have a real 372 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: shot at it. So I'm excited to see where that goes. 373 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: Is the e commerce queer fashion industry and those sales? 374 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: Are they driven by social media? Do you think kids 375 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: who are I mean, I say kids, but it's really 376 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: multiple generations, um, is it? You know? Kids who are 377 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: finally maybe coming out and they are looking to blogs 378 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: and websites like yours and saying, oh my gosh, I 379 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: don't have it in my x y z small town, 380 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: but I can at least get it online. Are you 381 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: hearing from people like that? Yeah? So I think you 382 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,479 Speaker 1: said keyword, which is kids. We definitely have a lot 383 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: of kids following all of us, UM, myself, Sonny and Asia. 384 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 1: And that's great because then we get to to let 385 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: them know as they're growing and maturing as adults that hey, 386 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: there's a space for you in the future. UM. Again 387 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: though their kids, so they can't really afford you know, 388 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: UM items that are several hundred dollars, which you know, 389 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: some of our suits do cost that much money. UM. 390 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: But the hope is to stick around until that group 391 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: can actually partake and and be purchasers of this these items. UM. 392 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 1: But a lot of uh I think more effective UM 393 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: marketing goes into digital advertising right now, UM, and you 394 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: will see the older crowds and Facebook. So we have 395 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: a campaign that's gonna be coming on Facebook soon. UM. 396 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: And just a lot of connections or word of mouth, 397 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: especially for somebody that's being referred to as Taylor so 398 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: to speak. They want to know that that somebody else 399 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: that they know, uh really well has a nice personal 400 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: connection with their tailor. And it's referral based that way. So, 401 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: Sonny and Asia, have you guys heard from members of 402 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: the younger generation about fashion and and sexual identity and 403 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: sexual orientation. Yes, Um, I hear from kids all the time. Um. 404 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: A lot of the stories are heartbreaking, but some are 405 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: more uplifting. Um. A lot of kids who are struggling 406 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: with their identity and feel like they need to fit 407 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: into a box. Um they say like, I think, I 408 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: think I'm attracted to girls, but I don't know, like 409 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: you know, they get all confused and it's really cute. Um. Um. 410 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: And lots of kids right in with issues with their 411 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: school or their parents in terms of like not letting 412 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: them dress the way they want to. So, um, I've 413 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: given a lot of I've tried to give a lot 414 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: of advice to those people and um. But yeah, just 415 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of kids are also able 416 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: to express themselves more now and they have all these 417 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: new terms for how they identify and that's really cool 418 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,160 Speaker 1: to see. Yeah, it's it's a little bit bizarre. Are 419 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: to have started fit for a FIM when I was 420 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 1: in my twenties and not in my thirties, um and 421 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: seeing that shift because I don't know necessarily that my 422 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: audience's age has reflected my own over I mean, only 423 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 1: on the Internet can you be called like too traditional 424 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: and old school and high concept in the same sentence. 425 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: Um So, what I get mostly at Fit for a FM, 426 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: because it's um so specific, is women who come to 427 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,959 Speaker 1: me and they say, when I came out, when I 428 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: realized I was when I realized that I was queer. 429 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: I thought that that automatically meant I had to cut 430 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,439 Speaker 1: my hair, I had to put on men's clothes, I 431 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: had to be more androidness or butchet up. And it 432 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: never really felt like me. I just felt like this 433 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: was the only way to be seen um as as 434 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: gay or lesbian are queer, and ultimately they stumble upon 435 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: Fit for a FM and they think to themselves, whoa 436 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,479 Speaker 1: like I can do this? This this person is clearly 437 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: doing this, and then you know, finding things that I 438 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: connect to or or other people. It's a thing. It's 439 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 1: totally a thing, and suddenly it becomes an option for 440 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: women who, do you know, want to reclaim their femininity 441 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 1: and be out there and the worlds of them Leon, 442 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: did you have anything else to add to that, um No, 443 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: non particular. I think that sums it up well. You guys, Asia, 444 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 1: you directly touched on this earlier, but you guys have 445 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: also touched on the idea of fashion as a part 446 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: of activism and of making your identity clearer to yourself 447 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: clear to other people. So do you feel that fashion 448 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: is a branch of activism and and how how is 449 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: it a branch of activism? Well, I mean, I think 450 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: we're seeing with North Carolina that the battle is not over. Um. 451 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: There are still really really hard times being fought across 452 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: this country for a lot of folks who just fighting 453 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: for the right to exist. And human beings are very visual, 454 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: and so when being who you are visually and and 455 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: being identified puts you at risk or means that your 456 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: rights can be trampled on or you can be discriminated against, 457 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: and there's no repercussion for that. That that's definitely activism 458 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: to be who you are and to be out and 459 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: sort of not compromise on that front. And that's really 460 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: powerful and scary for a lot of people, um. And 461 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: the more you can just support them and help give 462 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: them courage and help them to be authentic and true 463 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: to themselves, that's a really privileged place to be in. 464 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: For me personally, um. Just like Asia was saying, it's 465 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 1: really hard to just move about the world. UM. I 466 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: guess this is a podcast, so you can't see what 467 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: I look like. But I identify as non binary and trans, 468 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes I pass as mails sometimes I don't, 469 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: especially probably over the podcast, I sound more like I 470 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: have a high voice. But so I just have to 471 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: kind of every time I get dressed, deal with what 472 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 1: people's reactions are going to be, and still try to 473 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: be true to myself. Like right now, I have a 474 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: butt in my hair, which makes people read me as 475 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: more female, but sometimes if I put on a bow tie, 476 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: I can pass. So you never really know what's going 477 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: to happen, and it's always kind of an adventure going 478 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: into the bathroom. So yeah, I think for in terms 479 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: of just the community at large, even people who aren't 480 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: non binary, UM, I think it's really important to recognize 481 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: that we that the fashion industry puts UM standards on 482 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: all of us, and even if you identify UM along 483 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,280 Speaker 1: the binary UM. Just like Asia was saying, if you 484 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 1: are dressing it like if you're a woman dressing in 485 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: a body positive way, like your plus size, and you're 486 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: showing off your Middrift Like that is activism in itself 487 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: because you're saying that you are proud of who you 488 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: are instead of trying to hide it. Yeah. I think 489 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: that visual activism is a big part of of what 490 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: Sharp does. And there's still a law of work to 491 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: be done. I mentioned during the South By Southwest panel 492 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: that we had suited on the red carpet Phyllis Naggi, 493 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: who was the screenwriter of Carol as she was up 494 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: for a nomination. She was very visible and you know, yeah, 495 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: she looked great on the red carpet. Uh. She took 496 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: a chance by doing that, and she was very brave. 497 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: She's definitely a pioneer in in queer fashion because of that. UM. 498 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: We also flew to Monroe, Louisiana to deliver a tuxedo 499 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: for a high school student who was initially banned from 500 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: UM uh her ability to wear a tuxedo to her 501 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: own prom. When that band was lifted, then we were 502 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: there to provide her a suit and she got to 503 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: wear to a prom and have fun with her friends. 504 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: We're still, you know, always looking to see, you know, 505 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: how we can provide back to the community and um, 506 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: you know, advance kind of uh this these new styles 507 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: and identities into the fashion world. Um so yeah, I 508 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,720 Speaker 1: think there's still a lot of work to be done. 509 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: Even within the queer community, there's a bunch of sub labels. Um, 510 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: even being a transman or transgender individual, there's still sub 511 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: labels like transfeminine and trans masculine And people have asked me, 512 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: you know, like which one do you identify with? And 513 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, isn't interesting How we're trying to get away 514 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: from labels, but we give up more and more labels. 515 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, the consensus is once we 516 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: have so many labels that everyone has their own label, 517 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: then maybe we won't need them anymore and a person 518 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: will just be a person because you can, ideally, I mean, 519 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: you can essentially have um a different label to per 520 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: day to right you think about it, you know, I 521 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,719 Speaker 1: think weren't for us to be able to label ourselves 522 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: or not label ourselves as we wish? Yeah, it's a choice. Yeah, 523 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: do you think how long do you think it's going 524 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: to take or do you think it's going to happen? 525 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: But how long do you think it's going to take 526 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 1: for more mainstream media outlets to catch up with that idea? 527 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: Of not everybody is on this binary guys. Not everybody 528 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: uses the same one or two labels. Do you see 529 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: that happening right now or do you ever see it 530 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: happening at all? I feel like it's starting to trickle 531 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: in a little bit. But and I think especially with 532 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: like younger characters in the media who are trying to 533 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: figure themselves out. And I definitely know with younger people 534 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: being the mom of a teenager, like, they just don't care. 535 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: That's that's my take. They just seriously don't care, and 536 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: they're not really interested in categorizing, which is fascinating because 537 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: I feel like human beings, like your brain, just before 538 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: you can even consciously think about it, wants to categorize. 539 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: It wants to organize things and to meet little boxes. 540 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: Um for whatever reason, I'm sure people who studied that 541 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: sort of thing of the name for it. But um, yeah, 542 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 1: it's really interesting to see how that is gonna kind 543 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: of become more and more prevalent in media representation. We're 544 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: already seeing some mainstream designers Alexander Wayne Gucci showing androgynous 545 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: designs on the runway. Um and um, you know, the 546 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: the kind of the slim fit style that we're seeing 547 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: a lot in the mainstream is is very androgynous. Um uh. 548 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: You know, it kind of takes on more of a 549 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: diamond shape, and that is especially for hiding curves or 550 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: or body parts that are more defining as masculine versus feminine. Um. 551 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: So we are seeing that, and it is, in my opinion, 552 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: different from from the nineties campaign that you saw a 553 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: lot with Calvin Klein and that sort of androgyny. This 554 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 1: is more of, uh, this is something that's rather than oh, 555 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to pick that label because they're going through 556 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 1: an androgyny trend, this is more of a we're gonna 557 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: include this going forward kind of a fashion movement. So 558 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: I do feel that, you know, main street is catching 559 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: onto to quote fashion as well. What oh, Sonny, did 560 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 1: you have something ab oh sure? Um yeah. Well, as 561 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: I mentioned in the panel to um, I do, I 562 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,319 Speaker 1: I appreciate that the industry is doing a lot of 563 00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: unisex uh androgynous lines, but at the same time, it's 564 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: very limited to white, essentially female assigned birth skinny people. 565 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,799 Speaker 1: So I'm really hoping that we can expand that to 566 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: show that an androgyny can be for anyone of all 567 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: body types and um, I'm just personally, I'm really hoping 568 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: someday that that stores won't feel such a need to 569 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,439 Speaker 1: separate things into women's and men's sections because we're all 570 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: shaped so differently that it's really I mean, uh, like, yes, 571 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: men maybe taller in general or or wider, but it's 572 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: just there's so there's so much diversity in body type 573 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 1: among all of us that I really don't think we 574 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: need to separate it nearly as much as people think. 575 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 1: And I feel the most free if I can just 576 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 1: shop um when all the clothes are just together, because 577 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: then I'm like like those like those teenagers, I'm just 578 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: not caring about labels and I'm just having fun. Yeah, 579 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: it is interesting to watch. Kristen and I did an 580 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: episode on essentially feminism in fashion, but from the perspective 581 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: of feminism being used as a trend in the argument 582 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: of well, is this a negative because feminism is being 583 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: used or is it a positive because at least feminism 584 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: is getting a platform and it's part of a larger discussion. 585 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: Do you feel like something similar is happening with more 586 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 1: androgynous looks or with um fashion that's sort of for everyone. 587 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: Do you feel like androgyny is a trend or do 588 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 1: you feel like more mainstream fashion is really starting to 589 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: adopt more of a fashionist for everyone ethos And I 590 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:35,800 Speaker 1: think people are taking these terms like androgynous, tomboy, um 591 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: a gender, and a lot of brands are just kind 592 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: of throwing it around and it's really just code for like, 593 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: here are some clothes that look really good on skinny 594 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: people and don't particularly you know, have a gender to them. 595 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: Often they're more masculine leaning actually, So yeah, I do 596 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: think it's it's a trend that people are kind of using, 597 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 1: and I wish people were a little more careful with 598 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 1: their words because, um, there are some people who really 599 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: do identify as a gender or androgynous um and these people, 600 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: most of them aren't represented by this group. Yeah. I 601 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,920 Speaker 1: almost feel like if to be a little bit of 602 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: a music nerd, if you go back into like punk 603 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: and new wave and those times and like the late 604 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: sixties through the mid eighties, I mean you had I 605 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: feel like you had almost true like a gender stuff 606 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 1: where um like adam Ant would wear you know, roughly 607 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 1: shirts and kind of very tight, hip huggy sort of 608 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: pants and a lot of a lot of detail, UM, 609 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: and you then you had just sort of the straight 610 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:52,839 Speaker 1: up and down and again this goes to what you're 611 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,760 Speaker 1: talking about, sunny, look, that's just like a plain white 612 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: shirt and you kind of st Laurent has actually been 613 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: doing a lot of stuff that looks like that. UM. 614 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,319 Speaker 1: But at least that gives more of a balance to 615 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: where you see masculine people wearing sort of more feminine 616 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,919 Speaker 1: or fussy or frilly clothing rather than just everybody kind 617 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: of meeting in this this so called androgynous to find 618 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: middle middle of the road, which isn't really because it 619 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,919 Speaker 1: doesn't incorporate anything on the feminine side of the spectrum, right. 620 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,359 Speaker 1: You know, UM, A gender is not just about a 621 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: bunch of butches and suits. It's UM. It's playing with 622 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: different types of not just tailoring, but also draping UM 623 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: and really kind of not using gender basically as a 624 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: way of styling. It's UM using clothing in a way 625 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 1: that UM doesn't have anything to do with that. If 626 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 1: you look at the origins of tailoring, they did initially 627 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: start tailoring, uh for people who were male or or 628 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,479 Speaker 1: for men, and this is UM back in the day 629 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: and during the Renaissance era, everyone was wearing kind of um, 630 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: draping kind of clothing and then Tayloring came into play. 631 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: This is around the rise of Christianity, and um, you know, 632 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,879 Speaker 1: it was only for men at that point. I think 633 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: we're at a point in fashion where it doesn't really matter. 634 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:27,719 Speaker 1: You can um play with different shapes and um uh 635 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:32,319 Speaker 1: you know. That's another reason why I chose suits, is 636 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,359 Speaker 1: because I'd like to play with suits that typically are 637 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: very masculine type of symbol and clothing and and just 638 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 1: be able to suit all types of people women, um uh, 639 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: those who are female identified, draping it off the shoulders, 640 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: wearing them with shorts, you know, I mean, just playing 641 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: around with it, and we're finding that a lot of 642 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: people are actually liking these styles. Um So yeah, sorry, 643 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: that wasn't in very a direct answer, but it's I 644 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: could talk about this and I didn't want to go 645 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,800 Speaker 1: into like a ten minute feel you know, but hopefully 646 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: that gives kind of an idea of you know, uh 647 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: a gender and how that pertains to fashion. I feel 648 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,320 Speaker 1: like it's not only gender in terms like androgeny to 649 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: get thrown around for and and feminism that get thrown 650 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 1: around for sort of trendy fashion reasons, but also issues 651 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,959 Speaker 1: of race and ethnicity. I'm interested in your take on 652 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 1: where the place is for women of color in or 653 00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: you know, feminine identifying people in this discussion about queer 654 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,760 Speaker 1: fashion in because, like you were saying, Sonny for instance, 655 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: so much of that quote unquote androgyn his fashion does 656 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:10,359 Speaker 1: tend to focus on skinny white people. So what's here? 657 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: What's your take on the space for feminine or female 658 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,959 Speaker 1: identifying people of color. One thing that we talked about 659 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: and kept going back to you and ourselves by Southwest 660 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: panel was give people who aren't represented more seats at 661 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: the table. Everybody agreed on that. Everybody was on the 662 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,760 Speaker 1: same page about if you want to if your mainstream 663 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: fashion brand and you want to have a play at androgyny, 664 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: or you want to incorporate more women of color on 665 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 1: your runways or just people of color on your runways, 666 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:45,520 Speaker 1: even bring more of those people to the table. You can't, 667 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,640 Speaker 1: you know, work on those concepts and have it to 668 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,120 Speaker 1: be divorced from from those folks having representation and say 669 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 1: and what that should look like, what that should feel like, 670 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 1: how that should be marketed. Um. So I think that's 671 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:03,240 Speaker 1: just one of the key pieces. UM. I just worked 672 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 1: on a story UM at Auto Straddle that featured Cora Harrington, 673 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 1: who runs the lingerie addict UM her addict rather and UM, 674 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,399 Speaker 1: it's a it's a great her blog is amazing. It's 675 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,640 Speaker 1: just all it's a it's a lingerie drain. Basically, just 676 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: look at this wonderful, beautiful, incredible lingerie. And so she 677 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: worked with some other people on this idea of like, 678 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: let's let's do our own photo shoot representing these spring 679 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:36,120 Speaker 1: summer trends um and work with little indie brands um 680 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:38,520 Speaker 1: to just sort of put out into the world like 681 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,880 Speaker 1: what this should look like, what lingerie marketing campaigns should 682 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 1: look like if they wanted to be representative of a 683 00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: diverse group of people, and they had an older woman, 684 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,399 Speaker 1: they had Cora, who's a black woman, UM, and she's 685 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:55,760 Speaker 1: queer and she's gorgeous, but and she also rock natural 686 00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:00,760 Speaker 1: hair um. And then there was a non binary queer 687 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,399 Speaker 1: woman as well, UM. And there was one other one 688 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 1: other galic it's escaping me right now um. And so 689 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,640 Speaker 1: they came together and they did this incredible, really beautiful 690 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: photo shoot. UM. But even then, because Cora is slender 691 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 1: and has insane bone structure. Um. You know, some people 692 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,040 Speaker 1: are like, how, well, how is this different? How is 693 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 1: she different from the norm? And it's because she's a 694 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,200 Speaker 1: queer woman, and she's a queer woman of color, and 695 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: she's darker than most black women that are featured in 696 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:39,640 Speaker 1: lingerie campaigns, and she's a little bit more her physique 697 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,920 Speaker 1: is a little bit more muscular than is usually considered 698 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: acceptable and lingerie campaigns. I mean, I could go on 699 00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:49,280 Speaker 1: and on and on about what makes her unique and special. Um. 700 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: But it's interesting to have that conversation, and it's wonderful 701 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,040 Speaker 1: to see people sort of taking it into their own 702 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,719 Speaker 1: hands and putting what they want to see out into 703 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,920 Speaker 1: the world. Yeah. That's one of my goals with Quaire 704 00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 1: is to just provide this platform for everyone to express themselves. 705 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 1: And I try to keep keep myself out of the 706 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:16,200 Speaker 1: equation as much as possible. So if it's um, if 707 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:20,719 Speaker 1: it's a column written by a queer woman of color, UM, 708 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 1: just making sure that it's really all hers and then 709 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: I'm just you know, pressing publish. UM. So that's that's 710 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: just really important to our values at Queer that we 711 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,960 Speaker 1: give everyone a voice and that it's not dominated by 712 00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:41,359 Speaker 1: UM any one voice, you know, UM as sharp as 713 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,120 Speaker 1: a business. UM, we do have to UM. It's it's 714 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 1: a very tricky balance, I think you know, UM, as 715 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 1: we've you know, bottom line is going to determine whether 716 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: we survive or whether I can continue to do this 717 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:58,799 Speaker 1: or not. UM. So you know in our next campaign, UM, 718 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 1: you will see UM very slender cysts I guess, so 719 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:09,880 Speaker 1: to speak, Caucasian guy wearing um our suits. And that 720 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 1: is because we are wanting to be all inclusive to 721 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,320 Speaker 1: you know, the average guy who's sitting behind the computer, 722 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 1: who UM really wants to buy something that's more fashion 723 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:25,279 Speaker 1: forward and UM also you know, maybe hipster and as 724 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 1: cool with you know that we're inspired by the l 725 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,279 Speaker 1: g B, t Q UH community. UM So in the 726 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,120 Speaker 1: product shots you will see that. But in all my 727 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:39,040 Speaker 1: editorials on the runway, I'm always including all UM ethnicities, 728 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:43,239 Speaker 1: all body types, all UH genders UH to you know, 729 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,640 Speaker 1: as kind of an ode to who we are and 730 00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,640 Speaker 1: where we came from and who we're going to continue 731 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,320 Speaker 1: to be. UM. But you know, again with marketing and 732 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,759 Speaker 1: product marketing, we have to kind of take care of 733 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,920 Speaker 1: our bottom line, so to speak. So it's gonna be 734 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: a tricky balance, but I hope I hope the community understands, 735 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: because um, it's it's better for a brand like Sharp 736 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 1: to be around someday then for us, you know, not 737 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,279 Speaker 1: to exist at all, and then there's no work that 738 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,640 Speaker 1: I can really do at that point. Yeah, in terms 739 00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,719 Speaker 1: of the community understanding, UM, I'm always I'm in a 740 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,799 Speaker 1: unique position to get to talk to people like Yu 741 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,279 Speaker 1: Leon who um are running your business and have all 742 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 1: these things you're dealing with, and then the community who's 743 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,680 Speaker 1: having all of this feedback that's often negative, and I'm 744 00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,880 Speaker 1: trying to, like, you know, help balance um explaining to 745 00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,640 Speaker 1: the community like no, I'm serious that these people have 746 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: to charge this much like they worked all the numbers. 747 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,440 Speaker 1: This is just what they have to charge. You know, 748 00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 1: We're We're sorry it's too much for you, you know 749 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,279 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So um, So yeah, hopefully we 750 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:52,800 Speaker 1: can bridge and understanding amongst each other. Yeah, it is 751 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,759 Speaker 1: a delicate balance. UM. I know. I talked to Nick 752 00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,759 Speaker 1: Casey a lot about his business with his footwear she Wear. 753 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,760 Speaker 1: It's like, um, well, if you want something that's made 754 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 1: uh with this sort of level of authenticity and quality, 755 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,480 Speaker 1: then it's going to cost as much money. UM. Also, 756 00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,319 Speaker 1: just bear in mind that we are dealing with the 757 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,120 Speaker 1: supply chain that is also very gendered and binary, and 758 00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,480 Speaker 1: so if we want to change things slightly, that costs 759 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 1: us money and so unfortunately that comes out in our 760 00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:27,120 Speaker 1: retail pricing. And you know, we've got to kind of 761 00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:31,759 Speaker 1: stick together to support each other. Um. You know, uh, 762 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,759 Speaker 1: it's it's better, you know, to kind of pay a 763 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:38,200 Speaker 1: little extra um for brands like this to be around, 764 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,560 Speaker 1: and then when we get to a point where we've 765 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,239 Speaker 1: changed things all the way vertically, then the prices can 766 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:48,480 Speaker 1: come down right right. I feel like it's just something 767 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,839 Speaker 1: that takes time, and a lot of folks who are 768 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,120 Speaker 1: consumers simply don't understand because they're not they're not in 769 00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,000 Speaker 1: your physician, or they're not well verse, or they don't 770 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,960 Speaker 1: know a super ton about the background of what it 771 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,240 Speaker 1: takes to do that. You see that in like making 772 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,239 Speaker 1: vegan clothing or vegan products or ethically sourced things. It 773 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 1: is expensive. There's a reason that fast fashion is fast fashion, 774 00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,960 Speaker 1: and it's so so so cheap, and it's very easy 775 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:19,719 Speaker 1: to ignore the fact of why that is. Um. But 776 00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,200 Speaker 1: it's impossible to ignore as a as a business person 777 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 1: and as someone who is very intentional about buying ethically 778 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:30,120 Speaker 1: sourced things or about supporting a queer business. Um, I mean, 779 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,719 Speaker 1: I think those are excellent points in terms of balancing 780 00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:38,920 Speaker 1: the business against the constant sort of social outcry for no. 781 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,399 Speaker 1: But I want, I want my fashion, and I want 782 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,520 Speaker 1: it now. Um. I mean, I think it's an excellent point, 783 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,400 Speaker 1: and I want to sort of start to wrap it up. 784 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,920 Speaker 1: I've kept you good people too long, but I want 785 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,960 Speaker 1: to get from each of you, uh, some advice if 786 00:49:55,000 --> 00:50:00,600 Speaker 1: you haven't. For young listeners out there, um, whether they're 787 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,080 Speaker 1: queer or not, maybe just kids who feel like they're 788 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 1: different and outside of the mainstream, what is your advice 789 00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:12,480 Speaker 1: for them? As really fabulous fashion people, two kids who 790 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:17,200 Speaker 1: maybe feel just a little different, Sunny, Let's start with you. Yeah, 791 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,600 Speaker 1: just um it's cheesy, but just be yourself, I mean 792 00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:26,000 Speaker 1: you you really Everyone experiments to figure out what feels right. 793 00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,839 Speaker 1: So just try things on, you know. I I've had 794 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 1: a lot of embarrassing fashion moments in my day and 795 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,160 Speaker 1: it was all part of the process of um, finding 796 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,799 Speaker 1: my style, and I'm still discovering it. So just try 797 00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:43,120 Speaker 1: to be free, uh, and just surround yourself by friends 798 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,719 Speaker 1: who support you in whatever stage you're in and who 799 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,520 Speaker 1: don't make you feel like you have to conform to anything. 800 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,840 Speaker 1: I agree. Uh, please don't go to some of my 801 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,880 Speaker 1: older posts, but you could if you wanted to to 802 00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,759 Speaker 1: see how my style has evolved over the year. It's 803 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,400 Speaker 1: just the nature of getting dressed as a human being. 804 00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,040 Speaker 1: Things cycle in and out and and it's exciting. It's 805 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,759 Speaker 1: exciting to take part of those things. It's exciting to 806 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,879 Speaker 1: go against the grain, and how you feel is more 807 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,920 Speaker 1: important than anything else. UM. I would say one of 808 00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,000 Speaker 1: the more interesting things that I discovered moving from the 809 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,960 Speaker 1: Bay Area to Boston four years ago was how reticent 810 00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:29,680 Speaker 1: people are to buy second hand or thrifted or clothing 811 00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:32,839 Speaker 1: that's that's not brand brand new. And I feel like 812 00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,120 Speaker 1: for a lot of young people who maybe don't have 813 00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,640 Speaker 1: access to a lot of money and can't spend what 814 00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,400 Speaker 1: they would ideally like to to achieve the style that 815 00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,239 Speaker 1: they want to represent or experiment or play with. UM, 816 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,840 Speaker 1: don't be scared of that if there's nothing weird about it. 817 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:49,319 Speaker 1: And I can't believe I had to say that to 818 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,319 Speaker 1: so many clients as a personal stylist, but sometimes it's 819 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,719 Speaker 1: one of the only ways to get the look that 820 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,880 Speaker 1: you want from older clothing or are just there's no 821 00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,200 Speaker 1: way you can buy retail off the shelf, but you 822 00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,000 Speaker 1: can absolutely get that if you go and hunt for it, 823 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,800 Speaker 1: um in the bins or at someplace like Buffalo Exchange 824 00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,520 Speaker 1: or crossroads where that stuff is a lot more accessible 825 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:11,759 Speaker 1: than it is brand new. So just have fun and 826 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,920 Speaker 1: don't be script out by any of that stuff. And yeah, nice, 827 00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,799 Speaker 1: thank you so much. UM. Could you go down the 828 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,880 Speaker 1: line again and tell our listeners where they can find 829 00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,840 Speaker 1: you online and where they can find out more about 830 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,600 Speaker 1: your work. Sonny, let's start with you. Yeah, so my 831 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:33,480 Speaker 1: website is queer Fashion dot com. It's spelled q w 832 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,640 Speaker 1: e a R fashion dot com and that's where you 833 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,680 Speaker 1: can see everything we've done. You can find my style 834 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:42,800 Speaker 1: blog Fit for a f M at Fit for a 835 00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:46,520 Speaker 1: FM dot com, um, just like it sounds, and auto 836 00:52:46,560 --> 00:52:48,799 Speaker 1: Straddle dot com is where you can find a lot 837 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,680 Speaker 1: of my style and beauty coverage. Um, and that is 838 00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,120 Speaker 1: also just how it sounds. And if you want to 839 00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,239 Speaker 1: follow me on Instagram or Twitter, they're my heal is 840 00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,440 Speaker 1: dear jones e j O n E s E Y. 841 00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,319 Speaker 1: I know Instagram is super popular, so cool and uh 842 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:08,040 Speaker 1: for sure We've got spring summer collection that's launching in 843 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,799 Speaker 1: the next month or two and you can find that 844 00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,520 Speaker 1: at www Dot Sharp s h A r P E 845 00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:18,239 Speaker 1: Suiting s U I T I n g um dot 846 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:24,160 Speaker 1: com or find us on Twitter, Instagram, uh, Facebook, and 847 00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,799 Speaker 1: the Twitter and Instagram is at Sharp Suiting. Great. Thank 848 00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 1: you guys so much. It was such a pleasure talking 849 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,520 Speaker 1: to you. I could honestly talk to you like for 850 00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:38,000 Speaker 1: three more hours. But thank you for having us. Yeah, 851 00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:47,400 Speaker 1: thank you so much for having us. And I just 852 00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:51,080 Speaker 1: want to thank Leon, Sunny and Asia so much for 853 00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:55,239 Speaker 1: joining us. I really think that our listeners will identify 854 00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,400 Speaker 1: with a lot of what they said, and I was 855 00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:03,480 Speaker 1: so pleased to be able to represent these fashion viewpoints 856 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,439 Speaker 1: on our show. And I'm also looking forward to hearing 857 00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:10,160 Speaker 1: from listeners who are in the style and design fields, 858 00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,160 Speaker 1: M because I'm sure that you have even more insights 859 00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,080 Speaker 1: to talk about this, and also listeners within the l 860 00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:21,840 Speaker 1: g B t Q community. I mean, do these issues 861 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,560 Speaker 1: resonate with you? Have there been challenges finding the fashion 862 00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:30,160 Speaker 1: that really fits who you are both inside and out? Um? 863 00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,640 Speaker 1: So mom stuff at how Stuff Works dot com is 864 00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,040 Speaker 1: where you can send all of your emails. Of course, 865 00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,719 Speaker 1: you can always tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or 866 00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,480 Speaker 1: message us on Facebook, and we've got a couple of 867 00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:49,640 Speaker 1: messages to share with you right now. Well, I have 868 00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,759 Speaker 1: a letter here from Olivia and Kristen. She has some 869 00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:56,320 Speaker 1: questions in here too for us to address. Okay, okay, 870 00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,160 Speaker 1: so Olivia says, first, I just want to say thank 871 00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,040 Speaker 1: you for doing what you do. I love listening to 872 00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,960 Speaker 1: your thoughtful conversations on the podcast while I'm doing everything 873 00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,759 Speaker 1: from working to cleaning, and it totally brightens my day. 874 00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:09,320 Speaker 1: I was listening to your most recent episode about the 875 00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,279 Speaker 1: lesbian wage bump, and the idea that many lesbians never 876 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:15,120 Speaker 1: count on being attached to a male breadwinner really got 877 00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,279 Speaker 1: me thinking, I, a straight white CIS lady, have more 878 00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,600 Speaker 1: or less always counted on being in a partnership with 879 00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,720 Speaker 1: a male breadwinner. I knew from a very early age 880 00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:26,800 Speaker 1: that I wanted to get married someday, and I figured 881 00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:29,520 Speaker 1: my marriage would work the way my parents does. But 882 00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,239 Speaker 1: my mom lends a significant hand since she's back to 883 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,480 Speaker 1: work after taking more time off when my sister and 884 00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,640 Speaker 1: I were little. I've never been encouraged to make being 885 00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:40,959 Speaker 1: a primary breadwinner a priority. This is presumably in part 886 00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,239 Speaker 1: because I'm female, but also because I come from a 887 00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,920 Speaker 1: family of creatives who always put following your passions before 888 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,840 Speaker 1: making money. My decisions about my career have been made accordingly. 889 00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:53,640 Speaker 1: As a working artist, I'm much more concerned with the 890 00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:56,560 Speaker 1: career trajectory that will fuel my passions than with what 891 00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,280 Speaker 1: will be a stable source of income for a future family. 892 00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:03,160 Speaker 1: This feels like a betrayal of both feminism and my boyfriend. 893 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,680 Speaker 1: I dislike the fact that I mentally bank on the 894 00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,160 Speaker 1: safety net when thinking about my future, and it feels 895 00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:12,240 Speaker 1: terribly unfair that I'm primarily concerned with chasing my passions 896 00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:14,360 Speaker 1: while my boyfriend has to balance that with having a 897 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,440 Speaker 1: career stable enough to support any family we might eventually have, 898 00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,719 Speaker 1: though he assures me it's totally fine. All this to say, 899 00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,759 Speaker 1: I was wondering if you could do an episode on 900 00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:29,280 Speaker 1: reconciling one's radical feminism with being in typically quote unquote 901 00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:33,600 Speaker 1: female positions. Does this kind of thing grind other women's gears? 902 00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,360 Speaker 1: How many of us are in those positions by choice? 903 00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:40,880 Speaker 1: How do you navigate being a feminist while pursuing your dreams? 904 00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,200 Speaker 1: On another person's dime. I mean, I think that that 905 00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:48,919 Speaker 1: is all about partnership, gender aside, you know. I mean 906 00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:53,920 Speaker 1: there are times and long term relationships when one person 907 00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:57,920 Speaker 1: kind of has to carry more of the weight and 908 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,839 Speaker 1: it evens out most likely it's point. And I don't 909 00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,360 Speaker 1: think that that it necessarily means that you're being a 910 00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,839 Speaker 1: bad feminist. Yeah, And and the same sentiment goes for 911 00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,320 Speaker 1: what job you choose. I mean, if you wanted to 912 00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:14,839 Speaker 1: be a prima ballerina, I'm thinking of like something super 913 00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:19,120 Speaker 1: you know, traditionally feminine. That doesn't matter if that is 914 00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:22,160 Speaker 1: your passion. And it would be one thing if you 915 00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:26,520 Speaker 1: were trying to take advantage and and get a leg 916 00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:30,240 Speaker 1: up over your partner. But it sounds like you guys 917 00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:34,280 Speaker 1: are in really open, clear honest communication with one another 918 00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:39,360 Speaker 1: that you really want to pursue your passion and your boyfriend, 919 00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:43,560 Speaker 1: who sounds like will become your husband one day or 920 00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:45,160 Speaker 1: you know, you guys are just in it for the 921 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,840 Speaker 1: long haul. Um, it sounds like he's on board with 922 00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,840 Speaker 1: this too, And so no, like Christen said, I don't 923 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,320 Speaker 1: think that makes you a bad feminist. And I don't 924 00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,160 Speaker 1: think that if you're in a traditionally uh female coded 925 00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,960 Speaker 1: or male coded line of work, or a female dominated, 926 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,040 Speaker 1: male dominated line of work. I don't think either one 927 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:06,080 Speaker 1: speaks to what kind of feminist you are. I don't 928 00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:11,640 Speaker 1: think that your passion or your skills speaks to feminism. 929 00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:13,680 Speaker 1: I think you can be a feminist and be in 930 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:18,680 Speaker 1: a super traditional feminine role, female role, or you could 931 00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:21,080 Speaker 1: be a construction worker. You know what I mean, right? 932 00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:24,960 Speaker 1: I mean because I think we also conflate feminist and 933 00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:30,920 Speaker 1: feminine and consider that you know things that are feminine 934 00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,680 Speaker 1: or somehow the antithesis of feminism, and that's not the 935 00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,520 Speaker 1: point at all. So you know your own motivations and 936 00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:40,960 Speaker 1: it sounds like they're pure, and let your partner support you, 937 00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,800 Speaker 1: because that's what partnership is all about. So thanks for 938 00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:48,520 Speaker 1: your question. Um. I've got another letter here from Natasha 939 00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:53,240 Speaker 1: about our Lesbian wage Gap episode, and Natasha writes, I 940 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,720 Speaker 1: listened to the Lesbian Wage Gap episode today while I 941 00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:57,760 Speaker 1: was out in the yard doing work, and I'm just 942 00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,320 Speaker 1: really glad you discussed it as a queer men who 943 00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,520 Speaker 1: grew up in a rural area and is continuing to 944 00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:05,280 Speaker 1: work at agriculture, and we'll live in a rural area 945 00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,320 Speaker 1: all my life. I really appreciated you talking about the 946 00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,680 Speaker 1: members of the queer community who live in rural areas 947 00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,160 Speaker 1: and the jobs we do. There's a big myth that 948 00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:15,600 Speaker 1: there's no queer people in rural areas and we all 949 00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,480 Speaker 1: want to flee to the cities. So even your discussion 950 00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,120 Speaker 1: of poverty and the difficulty living and working in rural 951 00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,560 Speaker 1: areas is super appreciated by me, because so often we 952 00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:28,520 Speaker 1: don't exist in anything. I've really been enjoying listening to 953 00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,880 Speaker 1: your podcasts as I'm walking fields all day. So thank 954 00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,200 Speaker 1: you and keep up the good work. Well. Thank you, Natasha, 955 00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,400 Speaker 1: and for all of our listeners. If you want to 956 00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:41,120 Speaker 1: send us and let our mom stuff at how stuff 957 00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:44,360 Speaker 1: works dot com is where you can do that, and 958 00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,200 Speaker 1: for let all of our social media as well as 959 00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:50,160 Speaker 1: all of our blogs, videos and podcasts with our sources 960 00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,720 Speaker 1: so you can learn more about queer fashion and our 961 00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:56,520 Speaker 1: fabulous panelists today. Head over to stuff Mom Never Told 962 00:59:56,560 --> 01:00:03,440 Speaker 1: You dot com For more on this and thousands of 963 01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:13,400 Speaker 1: other topics. Visit how stuff Works dot com.