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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Nolan.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Andrew the try Force Howard. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 3: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff

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Speaker 3: they don't want you to know. Shout out to whatever

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Speaker 3: social media app you're on right now, if you're in

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Speaker 3: a chat, tell them you're listening to our show.

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Speaker 4: You know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Why don't weaponize it?

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Speaker 5: Oh man, you might as well s already weaponized against us.

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Speaker 4: Yeah as well. Turn the tables, flip the script.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, just so we we were talking about this

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Speaker 3: just a little bit off air. A question I've been

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Speaker 3: asking a lot of people recently. What is the longest

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Speaker 3: you have gone without checking your phone?

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Speaker 4: No more than a day? I mean a day is

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Speaker 4: nearly impossible.

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Speaker 5: I fully copped offline to being an absolute phone junkie,

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Speaker 5: and I've had to initiate some kind of self imposed

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Speaker 5: phone restrictions, like keeping it charging in a different room

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Speaker 5: while I do things around the house or work on projects.

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Speaker 5: But I'm absolutely addicted to the damn thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to talk about an author, Johann Harry,

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Speaker 2: who did a little experiment with that whole thing. But

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Speaker 2: when I think about vacations I've taken with my son

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Speaker 2: or my family's, those are the times I've put it

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Speaker 2: away the most. But I am still constantly checking for

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Speaker 2: work stuff, checking for conversations and a text thread, checking

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Speaker 2: social media, performance of a video, all that stuff.

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Speaker 3: And shout out to Hari Graceland doesn't make it easier either.

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Speaker 3: I remember, I think we're talking about the same article

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Speaker 3: there too, for a lot of us, or I should

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Speaker 3: answer this as well. I've been trying, like you guys,

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Speaker 3: to be more intentional about this, I think for a

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Speaker 3: lot of us in the audience tonight. Technically, the longest

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Speaker 3: you've been without your phone was the first few years

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Speaker 3: of childhood and adolescence before you got your own phone.

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Speaker 5: Right Well, yeah, I mean, and now it's like you

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Speaker 5: can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Kids expect

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Speaker 5: to get a phone at a certain age. If they

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Speaker 5: don't have one, they feel excluded. It's not impossible to

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Speaker 5: deprive them of that. You almost would be looked at

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Speaker 5: as some sort of monster by society. How dare you

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Speaker 5: not give your kid a phone at age thirteen or whatever?

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Speaker 3: You'd be in an out group and that's not good

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Speaker 3: for social networking. Quick question, just curious here. What is

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Speaker 3: the like, what's the going wisdom now for parents on

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Speaker 3: the appropriate age for a kid to have some kind

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Speaker 3: of phone, even if it's restricted access like a learner phone.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Matt, wouldn't you say that? There's always the argument

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Speaker 4: of the safety.

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Speaker 5: That does seem to be a thing that comes up,

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Speaker 5: and then of course all the other stuff that follows

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Speaker 5: along because you can't really, you know, pick and choose.

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Speaker 5: Once they have the thing, they kind of have the thing.

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Speaker 5: But what's your philosophy on that?

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Speaker 2: Well, we are all connected, and you do want to

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Speaker 2: know where your child is right and we have these

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Speaker 2: institutional programs like school and daycare that you send your

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Speaker 2: child to and you just trust that the adults in

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Speaker 2: those places are doing their jobs and doing them well.

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Speaker 2: But in the times between it is it is weird

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Speaker 2: to think about the transit between school and wherever they're

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Speaker 2: going to or you know that as they get a

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Speaker 2: little older, going to a friend's house, you want to

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Speaker 2: be able to connect to them, and if they don't

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Speaker 2: have a personalized device. We don't have landlines and houses anymore.

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Speaker 2: You can't call Chris's house anymore and say, hey, Chris,

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Speaker 2: is my son doing okay? But I guess you could

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Speaker 2: call the parent, which is nice. But yeah, so sorry,

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Speaker 2: long witted answer, just to say, I think as soon

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Speaker 2: as a child can kind of go out and do

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Speaker 2: things on their own, you were going to want as

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Speaker 2: a parent to have some sort of direct connection to them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that. I think that's a solid rubric.

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Speaker 3: You know, in most countries it's absolutely normal to constantly

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Speaker 3: refer to your phone. And I love the point you made.

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Speaker 3: Know that there are safety concerns too. We're talking about

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Speaker 3: people growing up moving into the wide world. For some

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Speaker 3: of us adults, you might constantly need to do it

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Speaker 3: for your job, emails, text right. Like you were saying, Matt,

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Speaker 3: A ton of people are constantly clicking on social media

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Speaker 3: apps your TikTok, Instagram, Facebook x, Snapchat, we chat, all

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Speaker 3: the apps. Reddit is social media as well, and it's

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Speaker 3: weird how quickly it became normalized. We have to remember

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Speaker 3: being normal doesn't necessarily mean a thing is good. So

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Speaker 3: as we're looking into in tonight's episode, there are serious

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Speaker 3: concerns that social media has become a kind of accidental

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Speaker 3: conspiracy against your brain, particularly your attention span.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry what.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back after a word from our sponsors. Here

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Speaker 3: are the facts. I guess first, we have to explain

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Speaker 3: the term social media. It seems like it came out

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Speaker 3: of the blue, you know, and no one really questioned

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Speaker 3: what it was because we all understood what it was.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's worth us digging into it just

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Speaker 3: a little.

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Speaker 2: For sure. Social media is something we've covered a lot

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Speaker 2: on this show, and it is weird to think that

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Speaker 2: the text app on your phone is kind of social media,

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Speaker 2: A little bit to email, Gmail, that's kind of social media.

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Speaker 2: But they but a lot of companies, individuals figured out

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Speaker 2: ways to connect human beings even closer to basically, it's

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Speaker 2: all a conspiracy to make you overshare on the internet

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Speaker 2: and then get some attention for oversharing.

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Speaker 5: I mean, the currency is your time, and these apps

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Speaker 5: are designed and psychologically designed to make you spend as

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Speaker 5: much time as humanly possible and you know, this is

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Speaker 5: capitalizing on a very common human need, the idea to

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Speaker 5: have a peer group, the idea to be connected with others,

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Speaker 5: making clubs, for example. We've been doing that since you know,

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Speaker 5: time immemorial. For most of human history, people have gathered

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Speaker 5: in groups of shared interests, like minded individuals, you know,

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Speaker 5: chopping it up, sharing ideas.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that point. No, social media and social

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Speaker 3: networking are ven diagrams. They're two related, overlapping yet distinct

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Speaker 3: concepts because, as you said, people have been so social

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Speaker 3: networking since the days of tribes, right, what we have

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Speaker 3: in common, and the first thing was the thing we

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Speaker 3: have in common is we're related and we want to survive.

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Speaker 3: The only thing that has changed about social networking as

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Speaker 3: a group of tactics over time was what a giving

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Speaker 3: group prioritizes, your tribe, your religion, the state, a career interest,

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Speaker 3: who you want to date, et cetera. And then when

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Speaker 3: we see the advent of the age of information mass

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Speaker 3: communication technology, now social networking just has new vectors in

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Speaker 3: group the outgroup. That's not going to change for the

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Speaker 3: foreseeable future. Social networking is a way to build communities.

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Speaker 3: Social media is a way to build an audience, or

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Speaker 3: that's why a lot of people are there. The platforms

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Speaker 3: need the user generated content for now until the AI

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Speaker 3: slops through, and those users are often hoping to garner

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Speaker 3: the large audience possible, which can then be monetized.

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Speaker 4: Oh it's interesting.

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Speaker 5: I mean it's we're almost entering an era where social

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Speaker 5: media celebrities are more powerful or just as powerful than

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Speaker 5: traditional celebrities, movie stars, pop stars.

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Speaker 4: I mean, a certain generation.

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Speaker 5: Cares way more about YouTubers and Instagram influencers than they

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Speaker 5: do about you know, film actors for example.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't have to look forward to see the

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Speaker 3: sudden sea change here. I think about this whenever I'm

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Speaker 3: doing a career day. Children of past generations, you know,

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Speaker 3: wanted to be president or a famous athlete, right. I

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Speaker 3: want to be the next Lebroad or the next Michael Jordan.

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Speaker 3: I want to be a rock star. More and more

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Speaker 3: kids now dream of being a social media celebrity or

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Speaker 3: an influencer. And it was really interesting series of studies

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Speaker 3: won by a group called Morning Consult that found social

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Speaker 3: media star is the four most popular career aspiration for

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Speaker 3: kids these days.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense. My kid saw our George Washington videos,

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Speaker 2: and after that we had a couple more talks about

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Speaker 2: what he really likes, what he's into, and he said,

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Speaker 2: I want to make videos like you, Dad, And I went,

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Speaker 2: oh crap.

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Speaker 4: And I think it's.

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Speaker 5: Sort of easy to be dismissive of influencers and social

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Speaker 5: media stars and all of that, but you know, we

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Speaker 5: can tell you firsthand that there's a lot of work

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Speaker 5: that goes into it. It does require a constant vigilance

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Speaker 5: of posting and creating content and kind of never sleeping

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Speaker 5: on it because you can lose that audience as quickly

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Speaker 5: as you can gain it. But there is a certain

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Speaker 5: sense of frivolousness around this type of celebrity. I would argue,

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Speaker 5: it's like you're famous for being famous, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 5: Art Dashian level, Right, it's the argument there.

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Speaker 2: In the end, it depends on what ideas you're putting

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Speaker 2: forth into the world, right, what ideas do you generate

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Speaker 2: right in the people that look at your sixty second video?

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Speaker 2: And often it is as you know, we kind of

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Speaker 2: slid that in there, that is about monetization. Social media

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Speaker 2: influencers get used as a way to have ads get

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Speaker 2: thrown in people's faces, even if they don't realize it.

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Speaker 3: There was a great South Park episode about that, a

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Speaker 3: real brutal one. I don't know if you guys remember so.

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Speaker 3: And I also love the point that, yeah, it can

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Speaker 3: seem frivolous to some generations or some demographics, but it

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Speaker 3: makes sense to aspire to these digital heights. You know,

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Speaker 3: for a lot of younger folks. Most of the success

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Speaker 3: stories you see, most of the media you encounter, it's

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Speaker 3: on a platform you enjoy. It's you know, a twitch

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Speaker 3: streamer you really like, or if you're into aviation, you

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Speaker 3: can go to a certain agglomeration of hashtags and you

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Speaker 3: can meet tons of people who will give you short form, dense,

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Speaker 3: accurate scientific information about aviation. So we're not trying to

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Speaker 3: throw the digital baby out with the bathwater. But it's

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Speaker 3: so weird. This is a funny story. Did you guys

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Speaker 3: know nobody knows who made up the phrase social media?

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Speaker 4: Hmm.

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Speaker 5: I guess I would have thought that it would have

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Speaker 5: been associated with somebody, like a coined kind of moment, but.

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Speaker 3: Some kind of influencer maybe, Yeah, I guess so.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's it's pretty cut and dry though, right,

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Speaker 5: I mean, media, it is a medium. It is the

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Speaker 5: conduit for digital socialization. So certain terms like that just

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Speaker 5: kind of almost invent themselves, like with a form of

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Speaker 5: parallel thinking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's an accurate way to put it.

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Speaker 3: If we go to if we go to some great

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Speaker 3: conversations Forbes journalist Jeff BERKOVICI had he talked to a

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Speaker 3: lot of tech executives from the nineties, right the days

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Speaker 3: when AOL was still sending you a CD so you

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Speaker 3: didn't run out of Internet. And one of the most

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Speaker 3: prominent contenders claiming to create the phrase social media is

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Speaker 3: Tina Sharky, who is a former executive at I Village

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Speaker 3: and AOL and BabyCenter dot com. And she described it

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Speaker 3: kind of the way you said. No. When she's talking

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Speaker 3: this journalist back in twenty ten, she says, it's not

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Speaker 3: service media, it's not quite informational media. It's social media.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't media we were creating, it was media we

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Speaker 3: were facilitating. And I think that's a big point, right,

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Speaker 3: because you are, if you were using these products, you

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Speaker 3: are making the stuff that they want to cycle through

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Speaker 3: in between the ads.

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Speaker 2: So that's like in the nineties, ninety fourish times.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's when she said we know the origin. I

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Speaker 3: feel like at OED, we know the origin starts popping

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Speaker 3: up in the early nineties. No one's quite sure when,

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Speaker 3: and probably one of the I know you guys love this.

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Speaker 3: One of the favorite contenders for the crown of coining

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Speaker 3: social media is another AOL guy, or a couple of them.

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Speaker 3: Ted leons I'm not sure how to pronounce that, and

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Speaker 3: Steve Case. They said they were throwing it around, and

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Speaker 3: Ted has the best line where he says, uh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: if it really mattered, I'm sure we can find a

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Speaker 3: deck somewhere that talked about social networking and social media

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Speaker 3: from that time. But what does it matter?

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Speaker 4: Okay, weird flex.

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Speaker 2: Steve, Yeah, well, Ted, just everybody who doesn't know a

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Speaker 2: deck is like a PowerPoint presentation.

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Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, techy kind of business type presentations. He's basically saying,

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Speaker 5: we did it, but I'm not gonna lie. It's not

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Speaker 5: worth my time to show the receipts, you know what

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Speaker 5: I mean.

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Speaker 2: There's another guy named Darryl Berry that has kind of

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Speaker 2: a similar thing that he's like, yeah, we were throwing

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Speaker 2: around the term back in the day, in around ninety four.

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Speaker 3: I think everybody was yeah, yeah, yeah, and these folks

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Speaker 3: are right, by the way, there is no official award

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Speaker 3: for coining that phrase. It'subiquitous. Nobody owns it. What you

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Speaker 3: get are bragging rights. But still, a rose is a

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Speaker 3: rose is a rose. Right. Social media, whatever you call it,

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Speaker 3: is one of the most successful communication phenomena in all

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Speaker 3: of human history, and you don't have to look far

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Speaker 3: to see it. The statistics are crazy, and we're also

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Speaker 3: all of us in full disclosure recording this. Now we

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Speaker 3: are part of those statistics, folks.

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Speaker 5: Hell Man, the app we used to record could in

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Speaker 5: some way be considered like a facilitator of social media

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Speaker 5: at the very least.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's count. Let's count that app riverside in this conversation.

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Speaker 3: As of October.

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Speaker 2: Twelve, guys, was Dungeons and Dragons the first social media media?

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Speaker 3: It could be Yeah, that's yeah, I guess. Yet we

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Speaker 3: don't have to. We should then carve out the definition.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about current electronics social media, social media that

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Speaker 3: uses the Internet. If you're looking at that, then I

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Speaker 3: don't think this statistic surprises anybody. As of October twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four, kind of the best time we have recent

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Speaker 3: numbers for there were five point five two billion people

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Speaker 3: somehow using the Internet across the globe. That's more than

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Speaker 3: a two thirds of the global population overall.

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Speaker 5: Well it's interesting too because in the really early days,

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Speaker 5: AOL type days they were talking about I remember having

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Speaker 5: a friend whose mom was super online, early adopter, and

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Speaker 5: she was into all of these kind of chat rooms,

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Speaker 5: and there was this whole thing. There's a thing called

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Speaker 5: the Palace that I remember, where you could have a

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Speaker 5: little avatar that you could create with like a rudimentary

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Speaker 5: photo editing you know, Photoshop type graphic editing app. And

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Speaker 5: they were all just like these little avatars on these backgrounds.

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Speaker 5: They were like kind of like you know, think of

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Speaker 5: like wallpaper, like old school like desktop wallpaper. But it

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Speaker 5: was like, you know, some sort of weird clue style

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Speaker 5: mansion and theme, different rooms, a tiki party, whatever the heck,

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Speaker 5: and you would be these little JPEGs and there would

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Speaker 5: be speech bubbles coming out of your you know, little

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Speaker 5: jpeg And that was a form of social media, but

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Speaker 5: it was a lot more niche and you had to

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Speaker 5: kind of be in the know to find those groups.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I remember Ultima Online in nineteen ninety seven when I

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Speaker 2: could chat and hang out with my friends in an

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Speaker 2: online environment that was in game, right, yes, and we

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Speaker 2: could hunt monsters together fun.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yet I remember earlier things like the BBS stuff, the

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Speaker 3: bulletin boards right where you would post for specific forums.

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Speaker 3: A lot of those got weird, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: This is all presidential right, This is a sets a

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Speaker 3: precedent for the more than five point two zero bill

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Speaker 3: users of social media networks across the globe. So the

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Speaker 3: vast majority of people who are on the Internet in

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Speaker 3: the first place are on a social media network. That's

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Speaker 3: sixty to sixty four percent of the entire human population.

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Speaker 3: And no matter what people might say about, hey, I'm

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Speaker 3: quitting meta or whatever, those numbers keep on rising year

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Speaker 3: after year after year.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that accounts for individual users or people

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Speaker 2: who have you know, different social media accounts or you know,

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Speaker 2: like somebody who has two or three Facebook accounts, or

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Speaker 2: somebody who has you know, multiple Instagrams or multiple stuff.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I just I wonder if you could designate it.

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Speaker 5: Out depend on the nature of the metric, like who's

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Speaker 5: doing the measuring, Like if it's an industry thing, then

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Speaker 5: it would probably benefit the industry to count each of

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Speaker 5: those as separate, like the way downloads are counted kind

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Speaker 5: of unusually in pot casting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, cough cough, I didn't. I didn't pull the specific

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Speaker 3: numbers from like a marketing place because to your point, no,

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Speaker 3: I think they would be more incentivized or a private

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Speaker 3: company would be more incentivized to as Homer Simpsons said

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Speaker 3: him big in their numbers. So I believe this statistic

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Speaker 3: is just counting individual people, no matter how many accounts

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Speaker 3: they have. So one tick mark is a person with

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Speaker 3: five different Instagram accounts or five different Reddit accounts where

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Speaker 3: they argue with each other, and it's counting them the

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Speaker 3: same as one person who just has their one Snapchat

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Speaker 3: or what have you.

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Speaker 5: Still a pretty staggering number, however, it's counting. I think

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Speaker 5: people should try to be more like Christopher Walkin. Have

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Speaker 5: you seen the news making the rounds lately. He's never

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Speaker 5: owned a cell phone, he doesn't have any streaming. He

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Speaker 5: has to watch episodes of Succession on like DVDs that

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Speaker 5: they send him in the mail. I just don't know

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Speaker 5: there's something charming now about that kind of unplugged off

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Speaker 5: the grid attitude, because it is increasingly more and more

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Speaker 5: difficult to accomplish and to just not be kind of

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Speaker 5: like ostracized by society.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it also gives him, uh, you know, it gives

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Speaker 3: us a chance to shout out, Christopher Walken, you know,

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Speaker 3: good on you for getting up getting on board with

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Speaker 3: DVDs man for.

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Speaker 4: Sure keeping keeping keeping physical media alive.

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Speaker 3: Well, for him, it might be new. He might have said, look,

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Speaker 3: a VHS was good enough for me.

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Speaker 5: This is this guy is the only new piece of

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Speaker 5: technology that I will touch.

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Speaker 4: And great, d answer that guy.

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Speaker 3: And look for some of us, this massive proliferation of

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Speaker 3: social media and online existence is great. Podcasters are part

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Speaker 3: of that. It guarantees folks like us can have increasing

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Speaker 3: potential avenues for sharing our work. The nutso thing is

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Speaker 3: that all of the big social media apps or platforms

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Speaker 3: kind of have their own shiny statistics and specialities. Right.

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Speaker 3: We know that Facebook, even though here in the US

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Speaker 3: a lot of us might say Facebook, that's for old people,

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Speaker 3: it has the lie and share of active social media users.

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Speaker 3: If you're just you know, again going one person counts

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Speaker 3: for whatever they're doing. It has three point zero seven

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Speaker 3: billion active users across the globe in twenty twenty four. Matt, again,

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Speaker 3: you know, we'd have to get under the hood of

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Speaker 3: the metrics. That's pretty impressive, but the methodology could be suspect.

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Speaker 3: And that's not for Instagram. That's just for Facebook. And

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Speaker 3: we have to remember, especially in developing countries, Facebook is

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Speaker 3: the Internet. A lot of people are only interacting on

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Speaker 3: their I have of course right by me. A lot

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Speaker 3: of people are only interacting on their phone, and they're

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Speaker 3: only really going to stuff through Facebook. Well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Facebook is the first one that popped up and

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Speaker 2: so popular, and it became a place for families to connect.

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Speaker 2: I know my family used that way. A lot of

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Speaker 2: my friends they still keep up with their families via Facebook.

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Speaker 2: I know that using that like if I jump on

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Speaker 2: and check it, and I don't do it very often.

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Speaker 2: There are people that I went to high school with

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Speaker 2: that are still on Facebook active doing that thing. And

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Speaker 2: it is so strange for me, just because I kind

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Speaker 2: I gave up that ship a long time ago because

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Speaker 2: I kind of felt like I had to. And it's

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Speaker 2: exactly what we're talking about today, the addictive nature of

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Speaker 2: this stuff and where your attention goes. But it does

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Speaker 2: feel like you will be missing out if you do

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Speaker 2: not have a Facebook account to keep up with the

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Speaker 2: folks that you knew around the time when Facebook came about.

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Speaker 5: I keep the Messenger app on my phone just in

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Speaker 5: case somebody who's more of a Facebook person hits me

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Speaker 5: up that way, but I don't ever look at it,

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Speaker 5: and I've exclusively kind of migrated to Instagram. This is

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Speaker 5: more of like a visual form, I guess of social media,

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Speaker 5: which I enjoy. I follow a lot of like graphic

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Speaker 5: artists and designers and things like that, but there's also

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Speaker 5: a lot of good reposts from other social media platforms

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Speaker 5: end up on there. But of course it's also owned

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Speaker 5: and operated by Madass, so you.

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Speaker 2: Know, and it just feels like one of those things

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Speaker 2: that has been around for so long. That's why their

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Speaker 2: numbers are so crazy. It's not because it's superior or

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Speaker 2: something like that. It has just been around. It kind

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Speaker 2: of reminds me of bud shows.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, just to add to like the personal experiences

398
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Speaker 3: that we're sharing here, I don't trust Messenger enough to

399
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Speaker 3: have it on any phone that I would use, so

400
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Speaker 3: I keep one computer with desktop access to Facebook and Messenger.

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Speaker 3: And I'm a little sour on it too.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 3: It's it's a first of the post thing, But also

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Speaker 3: you kind of have to thread that needle of you

405
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Speaker 3: want to meet people where they're at. Right, if there

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Speaker 3: is a loved one that is more active on this

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Speaker 3: thing and you worry about them or you want to

408
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Speaker 3: check in with them, then you naturally are going to

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Speaker 3: go the easiest route, right, the best way to find

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Speaker 3: them and interact with them. So there's a give and

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Speaker 3: take to all of these things. For example, TikTok has

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Speaker 3: only nine hundred million users in twenty twenty four, but

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Speaker 3: those users spend an average of fifty eight minutes and

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Speaker 3: twenty four seconds on it every twenty four hours. That

415
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Speaker 3: works out that twenty three hours thirty minutes or so

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Speaker 3: each month. Again, it's why ballpark average, but that's almost

417
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Speaker 3: a full day out of each month when you add

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Speaker 3: it up.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'm you know, I am no exception.

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Speaker 5: I don't use TikTok, but I definitely scroll some Instagram

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Speaker 5: reels and stories, you know, pretty chronically. And when you

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Speaker 5: do see that screen time adding up, if you dare

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Speaker 5: to check the stats on your device, it can be

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Speaker 5: pretty staggering.

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Speaker 3: Pretty arrowing, especially if you're twenty two percent of US

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Speaker 3: teens who spend two to three hours per day on

427
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Speaker 3: average on TikTok. Look, on the surface, is a huge

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Speaker 3: success story right now. Imagine we're social media execs. Our

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00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 3: platform has replaced so much older media for other people, TV, radio,

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Speaker 3: long form film, reading newspapers. But the problem is for

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Speaker 3: the critics the way that they teach you to encounter

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Speaker 3: and interrogate and digest information. So the big question, could

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Speaker 3: regular social media use like we all do, could it

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Speaker 3: actually make you less intelligent?

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Speaker 5: We'll find out after a quick word from our sponsors.

436
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. Collect sigh of relief at

437
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 3: our cliffhanger. There. No, it's not going to automatically knock

438
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 3: your IQ down twenty points.

439
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 5: Or whatever, not like the long term effects of leed

440
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 5: exposure to the Roman Empire.

441
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: But it can make you less effective at using your intelligence.

442
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 3: It can knock down your performance on tests including IQ

443
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 3: test for sure. It's because it appears to have over time,

444
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 3: clear and damaging effects on things like comprehension, memory, retention,

445
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 3: and most troublingly and most well researched at this point,

446
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 3: attention span.

447
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 5: Well, the thing about social media in that respect is,

448
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 5: at least as far as I'm concerned, is it sort

449
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 5: of promotes this idea that you can do all the

450
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 5: things at one time right equally well, and that's just

451
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 5: not true. It's this like myth, this kind of lie

452
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 5: that we've been sold that you can like multitask by

453
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 5: you know, looking having fifty tabs open, looking at different

454
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 5: articles and also scrolling your social media and watching a

455
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 5: movie in the background. And the reality is we only

456
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 5: have a finite amount of attention to give, and when

457
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 5: we start cutting it and cutting it and cutting it,

458
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 5: it's almost like we're not giving anything to any one thing.

459
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 5: It's all so far flung that we're kind of not

460
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 5: really doing anything. It's like a jack of all trades,

461
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 5: master of none kind of mentality.

462
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, well said, do you want to We'll get into

463
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 3: that further in depth in a little bit, nol, Do

464
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 3: you want to introduce us to Tessa Nussenbaum.

465
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 5: Absolutely writing for The Standard in December of twenty twenty three,

466
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 5: like so many other folks over the past few decades,

467
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 5: she anecdotally noticed something kind of disturbing that she was

468
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 5: having a hard time reading, researching, and writing. Just every

469
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 5: couple of minutes, it would seem she had almost unconsciously

470
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 5: this urge to stop what she was working on, actively

471
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 5: working on, pickup her phone for a quick break, and

472
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 5: then boom, before you know it, you're just locked down

473
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 5: to that doom scroll.

474
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, and let's talk about why this is so important

475
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 2: coming from Tessa specifically, she is writing for The Standard,

476
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 2: which is a school paper for the American School in London,

477
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 2: which means that she is a student giving you direct

478
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: access to a basically a teenager's mind as they are

479
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: going through this. And it's a teenager that's intelligent enough

480
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 2: to write this kind of paper and have the self

481
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: awareness right as she's actively going through it. It's not

482
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 2: no offense, guys. It's not us looking back on our

483
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 2: teenage years and thinking about it. This is somebody in

484
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 2: that moment knowing what it feels like.

485
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: In situ immedia arrests. Yeah. And no matter what Nussin

486
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 3: Bouten does, no matter how many times she attempts to

487
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 3: scope in and focus she finds, she continually returns back

488
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 3: to the apps before any significant amount of time is passed.

489
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 3: So this leads her on a disturbing journey of discovery,

490
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 3: and it's one that we see echoed by momultiple other students,

491
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 3: multiple other journalists, as well as a small army of researchers, marketers,

492
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 3: and academics and of course social media giants. This is

493
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 3: what you find from all these reports, anecdotal and quantitative.

494
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 3: Social media is purposely designed to be addictive. You didn't

495
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 3: get a dopamine rush from that last post or real

496
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 3: or interaction that you know, that singing raven didn't quite

497
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 3: do it for you, No worries, don't bother thinking too deeply.

498
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 3: There's a shiny other video about a raven. It's also short.

499
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 3: Just scroll down.

500
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 4: So much good COVID content.

501
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 5: I mean, you know what it reminds me of, guys,

502
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,959
Speaker 5: is the time that we all went to Vegas together

503
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 5: and sort of, you know, strolled the casino floors and

504
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 5: honestly I got sucked in to some of those bright

505
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 5: and shiny and noisy video you know, gambling machines. It's

506
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 5: a very similar thing. You're chasing that. When you're chasing

507
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 5: that as the effects and the the graphics that explode

508
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 5: across the screen, it's very similar to chasing that piece

509
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 5: of content that scratches just that right psychological edge.

510
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 3: You could call it over simulation.

511
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh for sure, it's rapid fire novelty. I think

512
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: there's something to that, and.

513
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 3: It's not how the human brain evolved to digest information,

514
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 3: not necessarily, not at this level and not at this

515
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 3: cadence when you don't have access to frenetic, fast moving cavalcades.

516
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 3: This endless ephemera, that's what a lot of it is, right,

517
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 3: mixed in with things of note. Then you're forced to

518
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 3: really think about information you encounter. You analyze it, you

519
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 3: synthesize it, you digest, you connect it with other pieces

520
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 3: of information you have encountered and assimilated before. That's why

521
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 3: you're able to think more critically. It also allows you

522
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 3: the superpower of sniffing out false claims and bs uh.

523
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: It's pretty big and it's a muscle, rights, That's only

524
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 3: a cliche because it's true. Your brain is a collection

525
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 3: of different cognitive muscles. What happens when this set of

526
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 3: muscles the ability to analyze and exercise critical thought. What

527
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 3: happens when it gets atrophied or muted? You get a

528
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 3: processing issue?

529
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 4: Right, Well, you're not actually doing anything.

530
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,239
Speaker 5: I mean, you mentioned the terms of the word simulation, Ben,

531
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 5: It's like it's stimulation simulation, you know, you're actually just

532
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 5: getting all of this. You're living this whole kind of

533
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 5: internal you know, life without leaving your couch or without

534
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 5: looking up from your phone. So it's almost like you're

535
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 5: you're living but not really living. It's it's a very

536
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 5: matrix y kind of you know, proposition.

537
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 3: It also codifies the ways of which you can participate

538
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 3: in information, right, the ways you can respond to a thing.

539
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 3: And you have you know, like comment, et cetera. You

540
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 3: don't have the same ability to imagine or interrogate a

541
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 3: response as you would if you were, say, reading a book.

542
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, think about how exciting that activity is, right,

543
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 2: having something new hit your face, your mind, your ears, everything,

544
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: your you know, your eyes that quickly something new, something

545
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: different every time you do it. Take one little action

546
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: with your finger, and something new happens.

547
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 5: You don't have to work for it. You don't have

548
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 5: to like really put in that much effort. It's just

549
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 5: kind of right there, presented to you on a silver platter,

550
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 5: and it learns what you like to Sorry, no.

551
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you're right. But that versus as you're saying,

552
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 2: bent reading a book, sitting there and going through words

553
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: and synthesizing those words into ideas and thoughts and images

554
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 2: in your own head that those two things compared. One

555
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 2: is so easy and exciting. The other is could be

556
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 2: exciting if you really thought about it, but it it

557
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 2: is less exciting on the surface, and the immediacy of

558
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 2: the excitement that you get isn't there when you're thinking

559
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: about a book or doing chores or you know, just

560
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 2: doing anything else.

561
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's talk about let's talk about this as we

562
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 3: hone in on that. There's a somewhat controversial study where

563
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 3: people will tell you what's controversial in twenty fifteen by

564
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 3: the eggheads of Microsoft, and they found the following. You

565
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 3: can clock an overall trend as we step through this

566
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 3: in two thousand in the year two thousand. Excuse me,

567
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 3: it's the awkward as that that's what I always think about.

568
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 3: I feel like you need to add someone on there anyway,

569
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 3: the straight up two thousand, Microsoft found the average human

570
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 3: attention span and their estimation was twelve seconds. That does

571
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 3: not sound impressive, honestly, So try it at home. Turn

572
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 3: on a timer, don't look at anything, don't listen to anything,

573
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 3: maybe just close your eyes and breathe, wait and see

574
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 3: how long twelve seconds really is, which is why we're

575
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 3: not going to do it on the show, because we

576
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 3: hate dead air. Twelve seconds so long for us. That's

577
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 3: the idea I had originally.

578
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you should use your original idea.

579
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 5: Let's meditate, guys, let's take it. Come on as the

580
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 5: least we can do. We owe it to David Lynch okay,

581
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 5: in his memory. Let's meditate for twelve seconds.

582
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 2: We should put some sound in there, right, all right,

583
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 2: ocean waves.

584
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 3: Perhaps I'll count down to from three and then I

585
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 3: get to one. Give us a beep. I'll start a

586
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 3: timer here for twelve seconds.

587
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 2: If you're driving, obviously, you know, maintain your eyes, your

588
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: eyes open.

589
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, do this when you're not operating machinery.

590
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 4: All right?

591
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 6: Three to one?

592
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 4: Interminable?

593
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 5: God, what a waste of time. No, I'm getting it's important.

594
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 5: Still in this is important. Mindfulness is important. We have

595
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 5: to claw that back in lives.

596
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 3: How long did that twelve seconds feel for you, folks,

597
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 3: assuming you weren't, you know, hopping on your phone, how

598
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,240
Speaker 3: did your thoughts fly in that short length of time.

599
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 3: It's interesting, especially we consider again the Microsoft study, which

600
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 3: people say is imperfect. In twenty thirteen, the same study

601
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 3: found the average attention span had dropped down to eight seconds,

602
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 3: as Nisenbou pointed out, and as a lot of other

603
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 3: people clocked as well. According to Microsoft, that attention span

604
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,439
Speaker 3: was shorter than that of the average goldfish. These little

605
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 3: lunatics can stay focused on something for about nine seconds

606
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 3: if it interests them that if it's food.

607
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 4: Could last, that thing be a goldfish. The idea of like, you.

608
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 5: Know, that is as a superpower, not a bug, you know,

609
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 5: being able to clear your mind and not remember the past.

610
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 3: Which is maybe a maybe good advice. It depends, you know.

611
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 3: There are other studies that find different specific nuts and

612
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 3: bolts numbers, but they all kind of map out that

613
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 3: same trend. Like doctor Gloria Mark you can listen to

614
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 3: you could read her work, and you can also listen

615
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 3: to a couple of podcasts she's done. She found that

616
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 3: in two thousand and four, the average attention to just

617
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 3: any kind of screen was about two minutes and thirty seconds,

618
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 3: and then years after that it declined to like seventy

619
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 3: five seconds, and then by about twenty twenty three to

620
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four the number drop to forty five seconds,

621
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 3: so much less weird right, but also still the same trend.

622
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about just reading an article that is

623
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 2: on a phone or on a screen of any kind,

624
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: like when we're doing our research. Think back ten years ago, guys,

625
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: Think about the ads that would show up if you

626
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 2: were reading an article on a place like CNN or

627
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 2: Fox News, any of that stuff. Think about the ad

628
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: space that would be taken up on the screen and

629
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 2: how it functioned on that screen. Sure, then think back

630
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 2: to early you know, if you were on AOL news

631
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 2: or something like, when you're getting it a full article

632
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 2: that you're reading. The experience, at least in my mind,

633
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 2: was that of reading a book with every once in

634
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 2: a while and ad showing up on the sides, on

635
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 2: the rails, or an ad showing up in the center

636
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 2: between paragraphs, but every once in a while.

637
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 3: Not inundated all around, not where you had to actually

638
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 3: search for the thing you were trying to read on

639
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 3: the page.

640
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 5: Yes, not only that, though, I mean it just feels

641
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 5: like the content has just overall been tailored to that

642
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 5: experience and just gotten shorter, like each piece of content

643
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 5: is an ad in and of itself, and rather than

644
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 5: having like long form writing journalism obviously there's still folks

645
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 5: out there that do that. It's about having tons of

646
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 5: little nuggety bits to serve these ads.

647
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so just but just I had that experience

648
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 2: reading a Guardian article today where this article was written

649
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 2: by Johan Harry that we mentioned at the top of

650
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: the show. It is written in actual paragraphs, and then

651
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 2: I realized, why does this feel so strange to me?

652
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 2: Because I then looked at some of the other articles

653
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 2: that I had opened my other tabs, and they are

654
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 2: literally sentences, then a break, then sentence, then a break,

655
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,760
Speaker 2: then a break, then a break after sentence after sentence.

656
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 2: And these companies, a lot of them, are putting ads

657
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 2: between every third sentence or something, and in the paragraphs

658
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 2: you get at least three or four paragraphs before you

659
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 2: get an ad break. And just the way content is

660
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 2: being tailored to not it's not to make you understand

661
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 2: the concepts that are written in the article or anything

662
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 2: like that. It is to get those ads hitting your

663
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 2: face as rapidly as they can, and you only if

664
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 2: you can break it up by sentence. You only need,

665
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 2: you know, three or four paragraphs worth of thought in

666
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 2: order to sell the same number of ads that this

667
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:11,959
Speaker 2: huge Johan Harri article had.

668
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's why some people will go toward ad blockers,

669
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 3: which becomes its own argument, right, because then are you

670
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 3: making it ultimately impossible for those journalists to do that

671
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 3: same level of work you.

672
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 4: Know exactly well.

673
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 5: And it also creates an environment where there are fewer

674
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 5: And maybe this is just conjecture on my part, but

675
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 5: it would seem that it creates an environment where the

676
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 5: demand for that real, hard hitting long form stuff, at

677
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,919
Speaker 5: least online is significantly diminished because it does not fit

678
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 5: that new or rubric to maximize sales dollars.

679
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 3: Do you mean demand from an audience or readers or

680
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: do you mean demand from corporation?

681
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 5: Corporation the people that are paying the journalists, the people

682
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 5: that are filling the pipes.

683
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the and the ads just one last thing here.

684
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 2: The ads are not your standard two thousand and eight.

685
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 2: You know a picture right that has some information on

686
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 2: it that is trying to.

687
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 4: Product sound videos.

688
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 2: It is it's like scrolling through social media as those

689
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 2: ads load, and you're going through and try again. CNN.

690
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but I cannot read stuff on your page

691
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 2: unless I alter your page so that I can read

692
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 2: it it sucks.

693
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 3: Sorry, and so yeah, it's perfect and it's honest. And

694
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 3: going back to what we're saying about, you know, Harry's work,

695
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 3: which we'll get into later, and then also Mark's work.

696
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 3: Harry is a journalist, right, but heavily researched into this

697
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 3: and as well as you know, even the controversial Microsoft study.

698
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 3: We see that this overall trend has come about. Now,

699
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 3: why do the numbers seem to differentiate and why do

700
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 3: we say their commonalities are more powerful than their differences?

701
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 3: Will tell you after a word from our sponsors and

702
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 3: we've returned. All right, First, it's important to note not

703
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 3: all of the numbers agree. That's I would argue you, guys,

704
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 3: that's probably likely to the nature of the sample size,

705
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 3: the demographics of the people in a sample size, where

706
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 3: they are life, the types of media they are consuming,

707
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 3: their education level, and so on. You know, if you

708
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 3: went and you asked a group of a group of

709
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,720
Speaker 3: people who are academics and all they do is study

710
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 3: the Old Testament, their attention span ratings are going to be,

711
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 3: you know, a little bit higher than average.

712
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 5: Wouldn't you also say that for generations that like grew

713
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 5: up completely online, like there's really nothing to measure that

714
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 5: change with. It's just brains have been wired from the start.

715
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 5: And then the quest and then becomes like, is it

716
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 5: just a new way of dividing attention?

717
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you're measuring the effectiveness of the platforms as

718
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 2: well with those folks, right, how effective has Instagram become?

719
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you would you would be able to compare

720
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 3: gen Z. You would just need to take a group

721
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 3: of people of the same age who were not from

722
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 3: a part of the world where this where cellphal technology

723
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 3: was ubiquitous, right, So you could maybe see it that way.

724
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 3: But then it becomes who's going to fund the study?

725
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 5: I guess what I'm saying though, is like, you know,

726
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 5: my kid is gen Z, and my kid's best friends

727
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 5: got to twin brothers who are the most gen alpha

728
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 5: of kids I've ever seen brain rod digit exactly. But

729
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 5: it's like they are also intensely creative and weird with

730
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 5: their creativity. So there's something to be said about that too,

731
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 5: Like I don't want to just completely demonize this stuff

732
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 5: and say the kids there's no hope because of this

733
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 5: toxic internet culture. Like there's something about the way the

734
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 5: brain is wired and these folks that are like online

735
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 5: from birth. That is different and is interesting. I don't

736
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 5: know what it means, but I've witnessed it, and there

737
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 5: is something going on with these kids.

738
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a similar argument to the older one about

739
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 3: Indigo children, which is a whole different bag of badgers.

740
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 3: And also it's a great tip. It reminds me of

741
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 3: the second aspect that we have to talk about with

742
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 3: these studies, which is attention is also not necessarily across

743
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 3: the brain and across the world hardwired to the media

744
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 3: you're encountering so much as it is hardwired to the

745
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 3: task at hand. If you like reading in general, you're

746
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 3: going to stick with the text longer than someone who

747
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 3: doesn't really like reading. If you are playing your favorite

748
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 3: video game, you might experience a similar level of focus.

749
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 3: If you're studying for a test on a subject that

750
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 3: you really dig, then you're probably not gonna have as

751
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 3: tough a time focusing as in like, let's say you

752
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 3: hate what's a subject? People hate? H math?

753
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 4: Okay, you know.

754
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 3: I love it.

755
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 5: Some people love it and are great at it, and

756
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 5: some people are inherently great at it and has an

757
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 5: aptitude and a type of attention that is very well

758
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 5: suited for that kind of analysis, you know. I mean,

759
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,399
Speaker 5: I know, I'm stating the obvious. Some people are better

760
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,399
Speaker 5: at some things than others. But for me, I'm so

761
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 5: bad at math. But when I work on music and

762
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 5: I'm engaging with like sound design or synthesis, it's a

763
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 5: way of interacting with math, which is a subject that

764
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 5: I hate. I just had to find a different path

765
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 5: to it.

766
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 4: You know.

767
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: I just experienced this with my son. We were studying

768
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 2: for a test on Indigenous Americans and all, like all

769
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 2: the aspects like a social studies test that he was

770
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 2: working on, and he wanted to sit with me and

771
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 2: study and just go over stuff, and he wanted to

772
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 2: learn it at all. But then we sat down to

773
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 2: learn about pollution, and he did not like that subject

774
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 2: because it made him feel a little scared and uncomfortable

775
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 2: and all of that. So that that anxiety that he

776
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 2: felt is what caused him to lose focus when we

777
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 2: were attempting to study that one. And I wonder if

778
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 2: overall generalized anxiety has anything to do with the desire

779
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 2: to move to these social media things versus you know,

780
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 2: actually studying what's happening in the news or something.

781
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 3: Like that, right, the brain wants to uh, well yes, yeah, okay.

782
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 4: So here's the brain and the heart want what they want.

783
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 3: A task accomplishment is really what it is. And the

784
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 3: immediate gratification of learning something easy that is not hard

785
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 3: to your brain, You're still accomplishing a task, right. And

786
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 3: I think anxiety to that point does play a role

787
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 3: in it. I'm not going to get into an anecdote,

788
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 3: but I've definitely encountered what you're talking about.

789
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 2: Well, in this in case, it was a subject that

790
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 2: was hard, that had a ton of dense information, but

791
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 2: he was into it. And the other thing was a

792
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 2: ton of generalized information but it made him nervous.

793
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

794
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 3: And the idea here regarding anxiety, it kind of speaks

795
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 3: to the level of there are certain things people may

796
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 3: be more comfortable learning, right, and the brain hates tackling

797
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,880
Speaker 3: something and then having to get it wrong and go

798
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 3: back and redo it. That's another big part of it.

799
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 3: So the brain is naturally incentivized to look for easily

800
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 3: accomplishable task and seeing a video and reacting to it

801
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,959
Speaker 3: and hitting that like button is an easily accomplishable task,

802
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,280
Speaker 3: and the brain response and says boom, we just did something.

803
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 3: Here's a little shout at dopamine. Now it's on to

804
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 3: another task. We are killing it today.

805
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:57,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, stimulation, simulation. It's weird, man, and we're all totally

806
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 5: subject to it. You know, there's really very hard to escape,

807
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 5: you know, sort of completely unplugging, and that's just not

808
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 5: very practical anymore.

809
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 3: Right, And I wonder too, if there's some attention span alarmism.

810
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 3: Right to which degree is this really affecting people? I mean,

811
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 3: is it hyperbolic? A we are we overdoing it? With concern?

812
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I'm with you, Matt, and I will

813
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 5: say that I do have a hard time sitting and

814
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 5: focusing and reading a book, reading a novel. We do

815
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 5: a ton of short form reading and papers and things

816
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 5: like that for the podcast. But I have really struggled

817
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 5: with maybe it's that multitask culture that we've sort of

818
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 5: become a part of, you know, against our will maybe

819
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 5: at times, but that's not great. I'd love to be

820
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 5: able to enjoy a book and enjoy a moment of

821
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 5: stillness and meditate. But I'm also very high functioning, and

822
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 5: I enjoy my job, and I spend good time with

823
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 5: my family, and I don't feel like I'm living some

824
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 5: sort of existential nightmare.

825
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 4: So I don't know. I think results may vary.

826
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: I think I think my own I don't know. I

827
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 2: think I've read a little too much to Yoan Hari.

828
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,399
Speaker 2: He wrote a book called Stolen Focus, Why you Can't

829
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: pay Attention and How to Think Deeply Again. And I

830
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: am on board the guys arguing basically, we need to

831
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: start a revolution against this stuff, because how do you

832
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 2: solve hard problems if you can't focus on a hard

833
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 2: problem for years? You know? And I don't know.

834
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,720
Speaker 5: Would you guys argue that in some small ways social

835
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 5: media could be considered an existential threat, Yeah, I would say.

836
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 3: Not to maybe an individual, but to an individual's abilities,

837
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 3: and perhaps to a civilization's capacities or capabilities.

838
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:43,279
Speaker 4: Yes.

839
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 5: And and secondly, are we not, especially in this country,

840
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 5: especially with some of the oligarch type situations that are

841
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 5: creeping into politics and government, you know, living in a

842
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 5: society where the knock on effects of this stuff are

843
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 5: more or less ignored, and the research into how this

844
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 5: will affect people down the road is absolutely not part

845
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 5: of the conversation when it comes to figuring out how

846
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 5: to get the most eyeballs on a product or Yah.

847
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 3: It's not part of maybe the more the wider public

848
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 3: mainstream conversation, but I do believe the downward trend and

849
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 3: intention span does have what we could call knock on consequences.

850
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 3: You know, cognitively, look, and I think this is so

851
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 3: important because I hate when people are condescending about this

852
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 3: kind of stuff. Cognitively, you're not less intelligent for using

853
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 3: social media. It is more difficult for you to do

854
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 3: certain things to become engaged in long term focused to

855
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 3: what we call deep thought. We've mentioned it before. But

856
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 3: the theory I always like to I've made this up,

857
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 3: so I okay, you know what my opinion then not.

858
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:56,960
Speaker 3: A theory unpublished is if you think of learning on

859
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 3: an X and Y axis, learning anything right, and the

860
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 3: Y axis above and below that X that is the

861
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 3: depth of knowledge, right, So the deeper you go on

862
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 3: the why, the more you know about a single thing.

863
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 3: The X axis is how many different kinds of things

864
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 3: you know? And to the jack of all trades master

865
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 3: of none concept proposed earlier people used to have very

866
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 3: deep knowledge about very specific things, and now we kind

867
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 3: of all know the first paragraph of Wikipedia on a

868
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 3: thing but how.

869
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 2: Does the person who knows the first paragraph on Wikipedia

870
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 2: build a rocket? You know, yeah, I guess what I

871
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 2: mean is like I do. I mean, I don't mean

872
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 2: to be condescending to anybody, but I do feel like

873
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 2: the use of this stuff does cause our intelligence to flatten,

874
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 2: maybe like that the way you're saying, rather than get

875
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 2: those spikes that I think humanity needs.

876
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 3: They do. But it's recoverable. And that's why I'm saying,

877
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 3: like your base and intelligence has not changed the ability

878
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 3: of engaging, but the information can be lost and regained,

879
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 3: kind of like getting out of shape and then doing

880
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 3: your push ups again.

881
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 4: Absolutely such, it does make complete sense.

882
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 5: And again I would just say, you know, when I

883
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 5: was trying to fumble out earlier is like, you know,

884
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 5: I definitely think this is something that I need to

885
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 5: curtail in my life, and it's something that I am

886
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 5: making some steps towards. But I also spent the last

887
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 5: like two and a half days really locked in and

888
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 5: focused on working on this remix of a song for

889
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 5: my friend's band, and I feel like it's one of

890
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 5: the best things I've ever done. And I've like absolutely

891
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,240
Speaker 5: focused in on every single detail, and I was completely

892
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 5: able to stay locked in.

893
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 4: So I'm just saying, like, I'd love to hear it. No,

894
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 4: I I'd love to share it.

895
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 3: And it's and it's task specific. Again, that's something that

896
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,360
Speaker 3: you care about that already kind of scratches behind your

897
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 3: ears cognitively. So you can lose, you can get lost

898
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 3: in the sauce of that beautiful moment.

899
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 1: You know.

900
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 3: That's that helps you.

901
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 4: Get But that's the thing. Social media simulates a flow

902
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 4: state without you actually having to accomplish anything.

903
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a synthesized flow state, and.

904
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 3: The brain is reacting the same way, kind of like

905
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 3: how your brain doesn't really on some levels, doesn't really

906
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:16,959
Speaker 3: know the difference between a fake laugh and a real laugh.

907
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 3: It encourages some of the same physiological mechanics to occur.

908
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 3: That's those feel good chemicals that you get. We have

909
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 3: to tell you your brain is not the villain here.

910
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 3: If anything, your brain is just again trying to accomplish

911
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 3: checklist and rewarding itself when you when it feels like

912
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 3: a task has been accomplished. So the short term stuff

913
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 3: is immediate. It's the immediate rush of feel good chemicals

914
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 3: as you build a tolerance. But finishing a book, attending

915
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 3: to lecture, working on an album. That's a lot more

916
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 3: time for that shot of feel.

917
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 5: Good watching a movie at home without multitasking, without looking

918
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 5: at your phone. Executives that now Flicks and other streamers

919
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 5: have openly talked about, or at least maybe it's more

920
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,879
Speaker 5: of an open secret kind of thing that they make

921
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 5: movies the green light movies that have a second screen appeal,

922
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,240
Speaker 5: meaning that you don't have to be locked in because

923
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 5: they know ninety percent or whatever high percentage of viewers

924
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 5: are gonna be half paying attention and looking at their phone.

925
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 5: And I would argue that a lot of that stuff

926
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 5: really set in deeply during COVID.

927
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, well it's also time. Do you have an

928
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 2: hour and forty five minutes to dedicate to one thing,

929
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 2: to sit in one place and focus on one thing.

930
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 3: Especially when you're fighting a fomo war on multiple fronts.

931
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. It took me three sittings to

932
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 2: watch Saturday Night recently, three sittings. I had to start it,

933
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: and then I had know I had to stop and

934
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 2: go away and do some other stuff because my brain said, oh,

935
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 2: we got to go do these other things. I can't

936
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 2: just sit here and watch a movie.

937
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, God, help us try to get through the brutalist

938
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 4: y'all right.

939
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 3: The last time I watched I was thinking about that too.

940
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 3: So when the last time I watched the film without

941
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 3: a second screen was in a theater, because I didn't

942
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 3: want to be rude. For another biological comparison, think of

943
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 3: it this way. Tell me what you think, guys, I

944
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 3: really like this one. I don't know how accurate it is,

945
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 3: but lifting from you know, the old analogy test in

946
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 3: l SAT or SAT or whatever, social media is to

947
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,919
Speaker 3: attention span as smoking is to lung capacity. The more

948
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 3: you use the one thing, the more you lose of

949
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 3: the other. But you can regain it with you know,

950
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,879
Speaker 3: a little bit of moderation, a little bit of self care.

951
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 3: So let's talk about these knock on consequences as your

952
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 3: detention span lowers. First, you begin grabbing multiple inputs. And

953
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 3: I remember in the Brain Stuff Days did a video

954
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,280
Speaker 3: that pressed a lot of people off. It was about multitasking.

955
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 3: You're mistaken about it. Nobody can actually multitask. No human

956
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 3: being can multitask on these conscious focus like pay attention

957
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,240
Speaker 3: to kind of pursuits because your brain is already multitasking

958
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 3: and keeping your blood flowing, keeping your heart pumping, all

959
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 3: this others, making sure you don't automatically crap yourself. Your

960
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 3: brain has so much to do and we don't acknowledge it.

961
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,240
Speaker 3: When you are trying to focus on conscious things multiple

962
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 3: at once, you're switching your focus, and every time you

963
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 3: do this, your brain has a little reset and it says, oh,

964
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 3: what was that thing that was just doing? How did

965
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 3: I feel about it? Where did I leave off? What

966
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 3: do I want to go to next. That happens every

967
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 3: time you're like, let me pick up my phone for

968
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 3: a second, Oh, let me get back to this email.

969
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:39,359
Speaker 4: Well, that's the thing.

970
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: I mean.

971
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 4: This technology.

972
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 5: I mean, look at like you know, Apple Vision pro whatever,

973
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 5: like the idea of having fifty virtual screens surrounding you,

974
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 5: you know, Minority Report style. It's this technology and these

975
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 5: technology companies that have us believe that this kind of multitasking.

976
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 4: Is possible through technology extensions of our meat bodies.

977
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 3: But it's just not true, right, Yeah, the average human

978
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 3: being absolutely cannot multitask. Your brain is just so good

979
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 3: at switching between discrete tasks that from far enough away

980
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 3: in your conscious mind, it looks like you're doing it

981
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:18,760
Speaker 3: at the same time, and that's how the grift works.

982
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 5: Well, it's like having too many tabs open in your browser.

983
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,320
Speaker 5: All of a sudden, your whole computer crashes.

984
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,280
Speaker 2: Well in every time you switch that task, your brain

985
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 2: has to reboot that task it is not and that

986
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,280
Speaker 2: means you have to remember what you were thinking about

987
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 2: when you were doing that task, right.

988
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 3: Remember what you just did, how you felt about it,

989
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 3: and where you left off.

990
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 5: It's almost like existing in this fugue state where you're

991
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 5: sort of between things all the time.

992
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 2: I know that feeling, specifically when doing the voicemails for

993
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:54,720
Speaker 2: this show, where I will get into a minor flow

994
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 2: state doing that, and then all of a sudden I

995
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 2: have the need to check Instagram and I do. It

996
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 2: throws me off completely, and then I will leave and

997
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:04,959
Speaker 2: go do something else because I got out of flow

998
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,320
Speaker 2: state before having to find my way back there somehow.

999
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we've all encountered some versions that all

1000
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 3: of us in the audience tonight as well. So I

1001
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 3: want to go back to this Netflix thing, you guys,

1002
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 3: because this is really If you notice this, you're not crazy,

1003
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 3: NOL you had mentioned it earlier. I think we all

1004
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 3: clocked it up. This is part of why you see

1005
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 3: more and more characters putting in exit exposition of what's

1006
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 3: happening at that moment. And it reminds me a little

1007
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 3: bit of weird improv, but it's in a very serious way.

1008
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 3: Someone's going ethan you've just walked in. Yes, and I

1009
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,720
Speaker 3: know about Bolivia, which you mentioned earlier.

1010
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 5: Indeed, it's like the way soap operas operate is not

1011
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 5: conducive to good quality writing and art.

1012
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:56,920
Speaker 4: It's super pandery and like not very interesting, not very creative.

1013
00:56:57,960 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1014
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 2: No, I don't want to que people of lazy writing,

1015
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,359
Speaker 2: but it is a way to get stuff across without

1016
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,439
Speaker 2: having to show anybody anything. You just tell them real quick.

1017
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:11,399
Speaker 3: Yeah. It also helps, you know, for the people who

1018
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 3: maybe have a favorite character in an ensemble cast of

1019
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 3: some sort. Like let's say there's a modern version of

1020
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 3: Lost and you only like trying to remember Lost characters Flock,

1021
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 3: the Man in Black or Lock. Yeah, no spoilers, but

1022
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 3: but then you uh, you're you're on your phone, right

1023
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 3: and you're kind of listing, kind of not listening, and

1024
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 3: then you hear them say the name of the character

1025
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 3: you like. Phone down for a second, I'm tuned in.

1026
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 5: Er that time I accidentally spoiled Lost by telling a

1027
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 5: bad joke, like about what it wasn't supposed to be,

1028
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 5: and then people got mad because of anything.

1029
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 4: I don't It was a long time ago. It was

1030
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 4: on this show, but people wrote in and were angry

1031
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 4: that I even at that point the finale had been.

1032
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 3: Because I said Lost. The writers of Lost spoils I.

1033
00:57:58,160 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 5: Think I just said something to the effective it was all,

1034
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 5: which is not a spoiler, because that's not true, and

1035
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 5: it's something the writers said would they would never ever.

1036
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 3: They would never do that.

1037
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 2: Guys, I just want to say one last thing that

1038
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:12,439
Speaker 2: comes directly from you and Harry. I'm sorry I've become

1039
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 2: a Haryeite. And this. You can read this in the

1040
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 2: Guardian title is your Attention didn't collapse, It was stolen.

1041
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 2: It was written January second, twenty twenty two. This is

1042
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 2: just a quote from the end of the article. Read

1043
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 2: it though, and get to this quote.

1044
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 4: He says.

1045
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 2: At the moment, it's as though we're all having itching

1046
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 2: powder poured over us all day, and the people pouring

1047
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,960
Speaker 2: the powder are saying, quote, you might want to learn

1048
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 2: to meditate. Then you wouldn't scratch so much. Meditation is

1049
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,200
Speaker 2: a useful tool, but we actually need to stop the

1050
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 2: people who are pouring itching powder on us. We need

1051
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 2: to band together and take on the forces stealing our

1052
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 2: attention and take it back.

1053
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 4: I really like that.

1054
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, because we oh, we've got to tease this,

1055
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 3: We've got to deliver on this tease. That same article

1056
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 3: as one of my favorite beginnings that are read in

1057
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:08,480
Speaker 3: the way these things are introduced as concepts. It's all

1058
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 3: about talking to his godson and taking him on a

1059
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 3: trip to Graceland. And it's amazing. Please do check it out.

1060
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 3: It's it's a banger stem disturn. But that's what we're

1061
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 3: talking about when you said grace Land at the very

1062
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 3: top of tonight's show, And can I just.

1063
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 5: Really quickly just give a shout out to I think

1064
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 5: someone that we all admire who recently passed away, David Lynch,

1065
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:38,200
Speaker 5: who is an incredible painter, artist, polymath, filmmaker and thinker,

1066
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 5: and you know he is a huge was a huge

1067
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:45,160
Speaker 5: proponent of transcendental meditation and the idea of needing that

1068
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,439
Speaker 5: stillness in order to be able to kind of pluck

1069
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 5: these ideas out of sort of the cosmic ether, and

1070
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 5: I think we can learn a lot from him, And

1071
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 5: if anybody out there isn't super familiar, I do recommend

1072
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 5: you know, looking up some of his interviews on the subject,

1073
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 5: because you know, people like him and like at Heart Polly,

1074
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 5: for example, are our folks that I think are really

1075
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 5: important when it comes to thinking about mindfulness and being

1076
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 5: able to kind of like shut off that part of

1077
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 5: our brain that craves that dopamine hit that we've been

1078
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 5: talking about.

1079
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 2: Dude, dude, Johann ends it with. The more our attention degrades,

1080
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:21,120
Speaker 2: the harder it will be to summon the personal and

1081
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 2: political energy to take on the forces stealing our focus.

1082
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 5: And that's why they're stealing it, isn't it. That's that's

1083
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 5: the whole point. I mean, it is a conspiracy in

1084
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 5: many ways. I don't maybe I don't know if it

1085
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,360
Speaker 5: started that way, but the way the technocrats are now

1086
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 5: like in league with the government, it just seems like

1087
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 5: that's just they're going to push it even further and

1088
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 5: the idea of taking over TikTok using it as a

1089
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 5: propaganda So I don't know, it's it's I was not

1090
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 5: I would.

1091
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 3: Say that's a I would call it again an accidental conspiracy.

1092
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 3: The first conclusion social media is not going away for

1093
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 3: many people. It is the internet from many people, it

1094
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 3: is they're also their prime method of interacting. And then

1095
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 3: second the science continues, how relatively new is this stuff.

1096
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 3: We have to remember widespread online social media comms are

1097
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 3: a little young to have true longitudinal studies. It's going

1098
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 3: to be difficult to account for all the differing variables involved.

1099
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 3: But as everybody is wrestling with this, we can say

1100
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 3: for sure, no matter how the science works out, it's

1101
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 3: great to put your phone down once in a while

1102
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:28,919
Speaker 3: a long time if you can manage it. Slow day,

1103
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 3: weekend off, go outside, do something fun. Your brain will

1104
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:37,160
Speaker 3: consider this exercise and with each iteration, just like lifting

1105
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 3: some dumbbells, your attention SPAN's going to get stronger. And

1106
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 3: I really don't think social media tycoons care if you

1107
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 3: know about this, not yet, because they say people are

1108
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 3: already addicted. From their perspective, you're never going to get

1109
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 3: so fed up that a large number of people actually

1110
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 3: leave for good. And this is where we once again

1111
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 3: want to sho shout out the various authors and scholars

1112
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 3: and journalists that we've mentioned here. We also want to

1113
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 3: ask you, since you're the most important part of this show,

1114
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 3: what's your take on this? What's your experience? We raised

1115
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 3: a lot of questions that don't quite have answers yet

1116
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 3: outside of people's personal experience, so please share it with us.

1117
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 3: After we talked about how dangerous social media is, guess what,

1118
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 3: you can find us online?

1119
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 5: Right and Ben, you had also mentioned being interested in

1120
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 5: folks writing in about their experiences with flow state, you know,

1121
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:35,439
Speaker 5: like tell us about a positive way or that you've

1122
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 5: counteracted some of the damaging effects of social media. You

1123
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 5: can find us all over the internet. We are conspiracy

1124
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 5: Stuff on YouTube or we have video content Calora for

1125
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 5: your enjoyment. We also exist at that handle on x FKA,

1126
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 5: Twitter and on Facebook with our Facebook group Here's where

1127
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 5: it gets crazy on Instagram and TikTok. However, we are

1128
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 5: conspiracy Stuff show and we're also people. You can find

1129
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 5: me on Instagram at how Now Know Brown?

1130
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 4: How about you? Ben?

1131
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 3: Is it an individual or a group effort? There's one

1132
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 3: way to find out. Go to app ed all wherever

1133
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 3: people use apps, or go to the website Ben and bullet. Hey,

1134
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 3: if you don't like to sip the social beads. There

1135
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 3: are other ways to find us, but Matt, the masses

1136
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:23,760
Speaker 3: are dying to know an any update on social media.

1137
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 2: My name is Matt Frederick and we have a phone number.

1138
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 2: It is one eight three three std WYTK. Why don't

1139
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 2: you call in and tell us what you think about

1140
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 2: a social media tycoon gaining full access to the federal

1141
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 2: payment system like you did yesterday. As we record this,

1142
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 2: that makes me nervous. What do you think when you call?

1143
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 2: Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if

1144
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.

1145
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,640
Speaker 2: You've got three minutes. Say whatever you want, just you know,

1146
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 2: do make it fun and exciting. If you've got something

1147
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 2: else to say, if you want to write it out,

1148
01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:59,360
Speaker 2: if you want to send us a link or maybe

1149
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 2: a picture, why not send us a good old fashioned email.

1150
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 3: We are Oh, let me hold off there for a second. Folks,

1151
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 3: Please please please write in as well with your opinion

1152
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 3: on what kind of qualifications someone needs to create or

1153
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 3: destroy a federal department, and especially if you work on

1154
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 3: the frontline. We want to thank everybody who wrote in

1155
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 3: to us with some of their experience with the recent

1156
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 3: let's say changes here in the US. To the degree

1157
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 3: that you are comfortable, let us know if anonymity is key.

1158
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read every email we receive.

1159
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 3: Be well aware, yet I'm afraid. Sometimes the void writes back,

1160
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 3: join us out here in the dark conspiracy. At iHeartRadio

1161
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 3: dot com, everyone have a great day.

1162
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1163
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1164
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.