1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, everybody. We have an episode coming up in 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: the near future that's related to alchemy, so we've pulled 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: a couple of related classics out of the archive to 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 1: wet everyone's appetites. Today's is about John d who was 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: an advisor to Queen Elizabeth the First, possibly also her spy, 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: and somebody that is requested from listeners from time to time. 7 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: He is more often remembered not for being a spy 8 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: or an advisor, but for being maybe kind of an 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: alchemist sorcerer. So in this episode, Sarah and Deblina got 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: into why that is. This originally came out in October 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: as one of their Halloween episodes, so enjoy. Welcome to 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of I 13 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: I'm Deblina Choco Boarding and I'm fair doubting, and we 15 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: promised our listeners some speaking kind of halloweenish episodes in October, 16 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: and it just so happens that I've gotten magic on 17 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: the brain recently because I was visiting with my ten 18 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: year old niece and she is finally requiring me to 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: do something that many people have done, which is read 20 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: Harry Potter. Oh, finally, I know. I know you've been 21 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: wanting that for a long time. Yes, been my long 22 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: cherished hope. She in bed and I read Harry hopefain 23 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: that I'll read it. She's wearing a wizard outfit right now. Actually, 24 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: So we wanted to look into some real life examples 25 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: of people who were said to have been involved with 26 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: magic and the occult. And John D, who was a 27 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: mathematician and astronomer from the sixteenth century, really piqued our interest, 28 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: not least of all because there's a new opera about him. 29 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: So this opera, which is called Dr D, premiered at 30 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: the Manchester International Festival in July, and it came about 31 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: when festival organizers approached the graphic novelist Alan Moore, who 32 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: is the creator of V for Vendetta and From Hell, 33 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: approached him to work on a new project about the 34 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: quote life of an obscure but important figure from English history. So, 35 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: more pondering on this, decided to focus on John D. 36 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: Of course, Moore didn't finish the project. He left before 37 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: it was completed. But Damon Albarn, singer and songwriter of 38 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: the band Blur and also guerrillas. He did finish it 39 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: along with director Rufus Norris, and we haven't heard or 40 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: seen it ourselves, but we've we did get kind of 41 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: stuck on that phrase obscure but important figure from English history. 42 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: I mean, that's exactly the type of person we love 43 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: to restuff. He missed in history class exactly, so there's 44 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 1: no denying that D was important. In addition to being 45 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: an accomplished mathematician, astronomer, geographer and navigator and also book collector, 46 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: he was an adviser to Queen Elizabeth the First and 47 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: probably a spy for her in some capacity, and also 48 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: an early proponent of expanding Britain into an empire. So 49 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: why is this guy with some legitimate resume entrees sometimes 50 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 1: dismissed as the queen's astrologer and necromancer and a sorcerer. 51 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: Well we're going to take a look at that, but 52 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: first we need to find out how he got to 53 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: work for the queen in the first place. So it 54 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: started with schooling and he was born. John D was 55 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: born July fifty seven in London. His father, Roland, was 56 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: of Welsh descent and was probably some kind of merchant. 57 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: So John D started his studies at a school in 58 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 1: Chelmsford in Essex in fifteen thirty five, and then went 59 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: on to St John's College in Cambridge in fifteen forty two, 60 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: where he studied a pretty impressive lineup of Greek, Latin philosophy, geometry, 61 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: arithmetic and astronomy. And from the beginning he was really 62 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: dedicated to his studies, especially when you consider how young 63 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: he was at the time. He really seemed to love 64 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: to learn, especially when it came to studying mathematics. And 65 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: just to give you an example of young on Dye's 66 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: typical day. According to his biographer Benjamin Woolley, d would 67 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: work at his studies about eighteen hours a day, leaving 68 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: just four hours for sleep and two hours for meals. 69 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 1: So a busy child, and by all accounts he was 70 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: an extremely talented scholar. Some even call him a genius. 71 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: So I guess all that hard work of has really 72 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: paid off. He got both his bachelor's and master's degrees 73 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 1: from St John's in fifteen forty five and fifteen forty 74 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: eight respectively. In fifteen forty six he was made one 75 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: of the founding fellows of Trinity College in Cambridge, but 76 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: then he switched stuff up a little bit. He left 77 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: England from fifteen forty eight to fifteen fifty one. He 78 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: continued his scientific education on the continent, and he studied 79 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: with a variety of top experts and a number of 80 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: different fields, including cartography and mathematics. He published astronomy texts 81 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: and lectured on Euclid's elements. Euclid, of course, was a 82 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: Greek mathematician and sometimes called the father of geometry and 83 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: d is sometimes credited with popularizing Euclidean geometry and academic circles. 84 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: He was also said to be an early supporter of 85 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:09,679 Speaker 1: Copernicus's heliocentric model of the universe. So he was out 86 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 1: promoting sort of revolutionary He was out learning and kind 87 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: of yeah, thinking about and talking about cutting edge ideas. 88 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: It was interesting, though he turned down to mathematical professorships, 89 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: one at the University of Paris in fifteen fifty one 90 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: and another one that was offered to him at the 91 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: University of Oxford in fifteen fifty four. It's unclear exactly 92 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: why he did this. He seems to have had designs 93 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: on landing a position with the English crown, though as 94 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: we'll see later, probably hoped that that setup would result 95 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: in financial support or patronage that would allow him to 96 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,679 Speaker 1: pursue his own research, so that seemed to work at first. 97 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: He was aiming higher. Yeah, it did seem to work 98 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,679 Speaker 1: at first, And when d returned to England in fifteen 99 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: fifty one, he was able to associate himself at the 100 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: Royal court and he offered his math instruction to courtiers 101 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: and to navig gators, and that same year he was 102 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: presented to King Edward the six who granted him a 103 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: pension of one hundred crowns, which D later exchange for rectorship, 104 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: which had a nice comfortable living associated with it. Um, 105 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, it seems like he was doing well for himself. 106 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: He made friends at court, he received the patronage of 107 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: a couple of them, including the Duchess of Northumberland, and 108 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: soon he started to get caught up in things though, 109 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: the intrigue that was going on at the time regarding 110 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: Queen Mary's ascension to the throne and the tensions going 111 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: on in England between the Catholics and the Protestants. But 112 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: Deep played his cards right, and at least at first 113 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: he didn't appear to take sides, which obviously during this 114 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: time could mean a swift execution. Yeah. So when Queen 115 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: Mary the First, who was Catholic, took the throne, de 116 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: served as a consultant and astrologer to her. So we 117 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: should stop here, though and talk about it a little bit, 118 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: because you're probably thinking, whoa wait a second, astrology. I 119 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: thought you said D was into astronomy. I have a 120 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: whole different opinion of him now. But before you go 121 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: judging him, we have to give you a little background 122 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: by way of explanation. Around this time, there wasn't such 123 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: a distinct line between astronomy and astrology. Many people like 124 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: D put stock in both. In fact, even though people 125 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: were coming out of the Dark Ages in the sixteenth century, 126 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: reason and science still existed right alongside superstition and magic. 127 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: So he wasn't the only one to feel this way 128 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: or to have these beliefs. And they'll get too upset 129 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: about Dark Ages people. I know everyone sometimes gets riled 130 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: up with that, but I think it's a good illustrative 131 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: term for discussing coming out of this real superstitious, magical time. Yeah, 132 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: it's illustrative. So just to give you an example of 133 00:07:47,280 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: what D's beliefs were like, he believed that the positions 134 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: of the planets at the moment of a person's birth 135 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: would affect their future, so like astrology, but he was 136 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: driven to find scientific explanation for this, and it was 137 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: this need to understand it all that really shaped his 138 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: whole career. So we're gonna two essentially, and so he 139 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: was asked to use these astrology skills for Queen Mary. 140 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: He was asked to cast horoscopes for her and for 141 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: her husband, Philip the second of Spain. Around that time, though, 142 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: D also started a correspondence with the Protestant Princess Elizabeth, 143 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: Mary's half sister, and he did an astrological chart for 144 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 1: her too. Soon after this, maybe coincidentally, maybe not. In 145 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: May a, fifteen fifty five, D was arrested and imprisoned 146 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: at Hampton Court, a week or so before Elizabeth faced 147 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: a similar similar situation, and the charge against him may 148 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: be different depending on what source you look at. I've 149 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: seen it as conjuring, and then I've seen it in 150 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: other places as simply calculating just to explain that, and 151 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: mathematics was kind of considered a form of black magic 152 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: by some at that time, so that's why calculating would 153 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: have been a criminal charge. He was acquitted after this 154 00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: and released soon after though, and he went back to 155 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: work for Mary, which kind of amazes me. Yeah, he 156 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: kept on working for Mary, and he was loyal to 157 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: her until she died in fifty eight, and then when 158 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: Elizabeth the First became queen after that, d immediately shifted 159 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: his allegiance to her. It's likely most people think that 160 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: he may have supported her all along, but regardless, it's 161 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: interesting to see that he showed loyalty to kind of 162 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 1: whoever was in power because it was best for him, 163 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: especially since it seems like it would be difficult for 164 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: an astrologer to show loyalty to two people. What are 165 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: you going to tell somebody that there their cards don't 166 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: look so great or their stars aren't aligned. Maybe just 167 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: avoid the conversation. It would be a it would be 168 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: a tricky conversation to have. So with Elizabeth, he became 169 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: kind of a scientific and medical advisor to her, known 170 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: officially as the Queen's Intelligencer or the Royal Astrologer, and 171 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: she him to use his astrological skills to pick the 172 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: data for coordination, and obviously it worked out, so she 173 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: was happy with the result and She promised him security, 174 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: but always kind of kept him at arm's length, like 175 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: she didn't want to be too closely associated with his 176 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: involvement in the occult. But de still had that dream 177 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: of royal patronage, and especially a dream of creating this 178 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: huge royal library that would be available to everyone with 179 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,959 Speaker 1: the goal of advancing learning. But he couldn't get official 180 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: support for that, so finally he just decided to build 181 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: his own private library and spent several years abroad collecting 182 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: books for it. By the mid fifteen sixties he had 183 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: set up a laboratory and a library near London, and 184 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: the library had more than four thousand books in it 185 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: and was the largest private library in England at the time. 186 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: But d kept to his original intention. He was really 187 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: generous with it. He made it accessible to scholars. He 188 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: had a pretty significant collection of astronomic cole instruments, a 189 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: collection of globes, so this was all suddenly um at 190 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: the fingertips of England scholars, which was a great boon 191 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: for them and for him too. During the next twenty 192 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: years or so, D was involved in a number of 193 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: let's say practical or more scientific compared yes. He edited, 194 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: for example, the first English translation of Euclid's Elements in 195 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: fifteen seventy. He also observed Tico Brahe's Supernova fifteen seventy two, 196 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: and if you would like to know a little bit 197 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: more about that, you can reference art Tico Brahy podcast 198 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: from last December. So he observed this as well, and 199 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: he offered some trigger a metric methods for fighting its 200 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: distance from Earth. So he kind of helped to the 201 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: discussion absolutely, and he recommended that England adopt the Gregorian 202 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: calendar in eighty two, although no one really listened to 203 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 1: him at the time. And during this entire period he 204 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: was also helping lay the groundwork for English exploration by 205 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: preparing just also sorts of nautical information, including maps and 206 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: charts for navigation in the polar regions, as well as 207 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: teaching ship captains and crews about the principles of navigation 208 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: and giving them navigational instruments. So this allowed them to 209 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: venture out on routes that were away from the coast 210 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: and really encouraged exploration. I kind of see him as 211 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 1: a coach almost to all of these advisors. You know, 212 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: somebody who's got the brains and knows all of the 213 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 1: specifics for all of these diverse sciences and can help 214 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: the people actually making the decisions make the correct decision. 215 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: And just a little side note if you're interested in 216 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 1: such things. Uh D was probably an advisor on Sir 217 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 1: Francis Drake's voyages as well, so that's another impressive entry 218 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 1: for his resume. But along those same lines, D was 219 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: a really big advocate of building a British empire, and 220 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,439 Speaker 1: that sort of makes sense if you consider his involvement 221 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: in all the navigation stuff. He expressed those views, those 222 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: views for an empire in a work called Perfect of Navigation. 223 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: But just because he was working on navigation and empire 224 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: building didn't mean that he had left math and physics 225 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: and astrology and magic um to just linger there and 226 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: not be worked on. He published something called the Propa 227 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: Dumata Afrostica in fiftifty eight, which contained his views on 228 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: those subjects math and physics and magic and things like that, 229 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: and that's not all he had going on. Many sources 230 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 1: also suggest that throughout this period D was working with 231 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: none other than Sir Francis Walsingham as a spy for 232 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: the English crown, and uh that's kind of it's kind 233 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: of a surprise, isn't it It is, It just takes 234 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: the story in a completely different direction. An article in 235 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,719 Speaker 1: Military History by Adam Mandelbaum, for example, suggests that it 236 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: was D, along with Walsingham, who founded the British Secret 237 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: Intelligence Service. I mean, talk about having an entry on 238 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: your resume. That's somethinging that you wouldn't expect for someone 239 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: who's labeled a sorcerer and a conjuror not at all. 240 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: But he was probably able to use both his scientific 241 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: and his more supernatural skills to act as a spy 242 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: and to work in this capacity because for the more 243 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: scientific part of things. Mondel Bomb suggests that D was 244 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: kind of like a sixteenth century version of James Bond 245 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: gadget master Q. He would create all kinds of cool devices, 246 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: including this mechanical flying bird, which might not have been 247 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: used for spying, but it still sounds pretty neat. Um. 248 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: So you know that that very practical side of him 249 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: had an outlet in this. Speaking of James Bond, there 250 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: is another James Bond connection here that's kind of interesting, 251 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: and I couldn't really find it in any great academic 252 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: sources or anything, so I thought I'd just put it 253 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: out there that if you happen to look up D 254 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: and double oh seven on the Internet, you might find 255 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: some interesting stuff there. Some say that he actually used 256 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: that double oh seven sign and his secret correspondence to 257 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: the Queen. The two ohs would symbolize his eyes and 258 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: the seven was just a sacred or lucky number to him. 259 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: I like that. Maybe some tutor experts can let us 260 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: know if there's any truth behind that. Here's what we 261 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: do know, though. D also discovered this work while he 262 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: was searching for books abroad, and it was the Staganigraphia 263 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: of Johannas Trauthemius, a German abbott and magician of the 264 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: late fifteenth century. It was divided into three books, all 265 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: of which were apparently concerned with the evocation of angels, 266 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: and this was a topic that D was very interested in. 267 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: We'll tell you more about that later. But the first 268 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: two parts actually turned out to be hoaxes. They were 269 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: really the subject of them was really secret codes, and 270 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: only the third part was actually about contacting spirits. So, 271 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: according to mondel Baouma's article, D used this code to 272 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: communicate with Walsingham and disguise the intelligence he'd gathered throwing 273 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: some symbols associated with alchemy in there too. That was 274 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: in the mix so that people would think that they 275 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: were magical writings. It's why some people think of him 276 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: more as a master spy than necessarily a magician. And 277 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: I really love this detail. I mean, I imagine somebody 278 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: intercepting a letter and it looks like it's all about magic. 279 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: And to add to that, you know, there are these 280 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: weird symbols thrown in and it's from old John D. 281 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: Really there's important communications contained. I think that's such an 282 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: interesting tactic for a spy to take. I know, we 283 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: when we talked about Civil War spies, we talked about 284 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: one who would visit the hospitals and fame being crazy 285 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: and this is this reminded me of that. Almost just 286 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: a personality disguise. Almost yeah, something that has the ability 287 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: to tarnish your reputation, but as further in at the 288 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: same time dismiss what you're what you're working on. So 289 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: D did also employ his psychic abilities and occult knowledge 290 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: in this. Walsingham, for example, asked him to cast horoscopes 291 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: to evaluate the queen's marriage options, and he used this 292 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 1: to determine that neither the Duke Gianjou or his brother 293 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: were suitable marriage partners for the queen, So what other 294 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: intelligence to d obtain? Well, for one thing, he gathered 295 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: a lot of information about Spain, which was England's big 296 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: expansionist rival. He found out about the Armada, the Spanish 297 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 1: fleet that was designed to overthrow Elizabeth, long before it 298 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: was launched, and in fact, it said that D predicted 299 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: violent storms in eight He used his math and astronomy 300 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: knowledge to predict the weather, I guess, and spread that 301 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: around and Spain had some trouble because of that, because 302 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: of those rumors, they had trouble drumming up volunteers for 303 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: this venture. And then of course the predictions proved to 304 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,479 Speaker 1: be true. Story did destroy many of the Armadas ships. 305 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: And some have wondered if that prediction that he made 306 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: was actually just psychological warfare by the English, or if 307 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: it was actually just that he knew it was really psychic. 308 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: But between those scientific pursuits and the spying, you think 309 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: that d would really have his work cut out for him. 310 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: But he also had some side jobs going on. He 311 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:16,360 Speaker 1: told fortunes for money. He practiced necromancy with real corpses. 312 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: Basically attempting to communicate with the dead or even raise 313 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 1: the dead. And on top of that, he would also 314 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: teach the occult arts and alchemy to students for a fee, 315 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 1: basically as a magician for hire. But one other thing 316 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: that was a real passion of deeds was his efforts 317 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: to communicate with angels. I mean, this guy has so 318 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: much going on, but that was a really strong interest 319 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:45,239 Speaker 1: of his. He said to have conducted occult experiments with 320 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: crystal gazing that he called scrying the ether and began 321 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: conversing with angelic intelligences this way, and d got more 322 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: and more involved in this. So while some of these 323 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: pursuits seemed pretty well balanced from most of his life, 324 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: this started to take over the other ones from the 325 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: fifteen eighties onward until it really began to dominate his 326 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: life almost entirely. And a lot of people think that 327 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: he changed his focus because he was just so frustrated 328 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 1: that he couldn't gain a comprehensive understanding of the universe. 329 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: Up until that point. That was what he was striving 330 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 1: for all along, as we mentioned earlier, to try to 331 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: reconcile the magical aspects of life with the practical aspects 332 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: and the secrets of the universe make it all makes sense, 333 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: and he was frustrated he couldn't do this despite his 334 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: long hours, despite his intelligence, and thought that maybe the 335 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: angels could explain it all it could help him out. 336 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: Another major influence that played a part in this, though, 337 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: was a man named Edward Kelly, not to be confused 338 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: with Ned Kelly another not Ned It's not another Australian podcast, 339 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: But Edward Kelly came to D's life in fifteen eighty 340 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: two and he's often referred to as D's and medium. 341 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: Acording to Encyclopedia Britannica, Kelly was a convicted counterfeiter and 342 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: he claimed that he could contact angels and spirits by 343 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: gazing into a crystal ball. He and D held seances together, 344 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: and D became pretty convinced that Kelly's abilities were actually real. 345 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: The two traveled on the continent together for several years 346 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 1: in the fifteen eighties, doing displays of magic at various courts, 347 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: and they recorded a language for communicating with angels, which 348 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: is now referred to as a Nokian, and he basically 349 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: claimed that the angels had revealed this language to them. 350 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: Many historians suggest that Kelly was pretty much a con artist, 351 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: doing this for fame and for wealth. According to d 352 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: biographer Wooley, he eventually made a play Ford's wife and 353 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,400 Speaker 1: that's what sort of broke them apart. But D seems 354 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 1: to have really been sincere in his belief of the stuff, 355 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: and that didn't help him win any friends, and by 356 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: the time he returned to England in fifteen eighty nine, 357 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: his reputation had been very much tarnished by his involvement 358 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,239 Speaker 1: in the accall Alton. He found that his library had 359 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: been ransacked and his books and scientific instruments had been stolen, 360 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: and that that great reputation as a practical mind, as 361 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 1: somebody who was intelligent and and capable of performing all 362 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: these sciences, was really gone. And ultimately the financial support 363 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: that D had longed for from Queen Elizabeth the First 364 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: and that she had sort of promised him to never 365 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: really materialized. She did give him a job, she appointed 366 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: him Warden of Manchester College in fift but that didn't 367 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: pay enough to support D and support his family, and 368 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: was honestly probably just a way to get him out 369 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: of London um away from from giving her a bad 370 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: rap by association. So his friends managed to raise some 371 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: money for him, but still his final years were pretty 372 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: much spent in poverty. He was miserable in Manchester, and 373 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: in sixteen oh five, to add insult to injury, the 374 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 1: area was hit by plague, killing his wife and several 375 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: of his children too. He of actually returned to London 376 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: and died there in December. He basically spent the end 377 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: of his life trying to fight off the reputation of 378 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: being a conjuror, and that's what many remember him as, 379 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,640 Speaker 1: even though he did so many other things. They're kind 380 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: of faded into the background now. The British Museum, though, 381 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: has some artifacts associated with him that you can check out, 382 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 1: including a mirror that he probably used in his occult research. 383 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: And for all of the literary minded people out there, 384 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: d is also thought to be Some people actually say 385 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 1: he's almost certainly the inspiration for a very famous literary 386 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 1: conjur Prospero in Shakespeare's The Tempest. So in a lot 387 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: of ways, and some people have said this before, he 388 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: was the quintessential magician and therefore I think it's okay 389 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 1: submission for Halloween months, even though he wasn't that scarier, 390 00:22:52,160 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: spooky Thank you so much for joining us on the Saturday. 391 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: If you have heard an email address or a Facebook 392 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 1: you are l or something similar over the course of 393 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 1: today's episode, since it is from the archive that might 394 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: be out of date. Now, you can email us at 395 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: history podcast at how stuff Works dot com, and you 396 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 1: can find us all over social media at missed in 397 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 1: History and you can subscribe to our show on Apple podcasts, 398 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: Google podcasts, the I heart Radio app, and wherever else 399 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. Stuff You Missed in History Class 400 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. 401 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,959 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart 402 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 403 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: favorite shows.