1 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: We could are trillions. 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 2: I'm Joel Weber and I'm Eric Belchernas. 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,159 Speaker 1: Eric, you know what we haven't done forever is a 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: mail bag episode where people ask us questions about things 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: like ETFs or whatever else I guess, but probably ETFs. 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good to get back to the basics. I 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 2: felt when we started this podcast. A big part of 8 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 2: our mission was education and just trying to educate people 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 2: on what ETFs are, how to use them due diligence, 10 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: and so it's interesting to ask people and to solicit 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 2: them for their questions now and also just see where 12 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: they're at, what are they curious about. I do this 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 2: one show called The Money Show, which is a conference 14 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 2: that you deal directly with retail investors, and it's a 15 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: similar situation. It's nice to talk directly to the people 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: because a lot of times we're working with advisors or 17 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: the ETF industry itself, who's like talking shop constantly. But 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 2: BA is a good time to go back to, like 19 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 2: the basics, get the temperature of what people are thinking about, 20 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: and you know what they don't know and are asking about. 21 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 2: So I basically polled or solicited both LinkedIn and Twitter. 22 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 2: Interesting the contrast on the types of questions on each 23 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 2: site LinkedIn a little more longer and professional sounding as 24 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 2: you might imagine Twitter, a little more quick, some trolling, 25 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 2: and even some weird questions in there, but all pretty good. 26 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: I thought. I thought there a lot of them are 27 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: pretty solid questions, so looking forward to answering them best 28 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 2: I can. 29 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: Okay, well, here we go. We're gonna dive into a 30 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: bunch of questions, maybe an abbreviated version of it if 31 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: it's a little long, and we'll do our best to 32 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: answer all of them. This time on trillions mail bag, 33 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna start with a guy named Chuck Rose. He says, 34 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: ETFs seem to have escaped the muddy waters of mutual 35 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: fund share classes. But now you have SPY or SPLG 36 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: or another example, QQQ or QQQM, same issuers, same index, 37 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: but different expenses, different spreads. What's going on? 38 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I would call this trend the minime trend, 39 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: because every one of those is a minime of the 40 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 2: bigger original one. 41 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: So like spy is the big dog, why are they 42 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: doing that? 43 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: It's a business decision on their part. So for example, 44 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 2: let's say you're a state street and you have spy 45 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: and you charge nine basis points and the liquidity is 46 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 2: so good that you have a good audience. That said, 47 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 2: Vanguard and I Shares came out with similar products at 48 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 2: three basis points. So you start to lose money to 49 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 2: the longer term investors, and in order to deal with 50 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 2: this situation of losing some assets to these new competitors, 51 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: you come out with sort of like a minime clone 52 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 2: at a lower fee. This way for the people who 53 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 2: really need volume, like the professional traders and hedge funds 54 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: who are going to use SPY regardless, you can still 55 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: earn your nine basis points, but you then have a 56 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 2: cheaper version to help keep flows in house and coming in. 57 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 2: So SPLG would be Spies Mini me, and this charges 58 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: three basis points and it's been doing really well, like 59 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 2: it's got forty one billion dollars now, and this has 60 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 2: been happening for a long time. I Shares kind of 61 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 2: invented this trend when EEM was losing a lot of 62 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 2: assets to Vanguard's VWO, so it came out with IMG, 63 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: which was a mini me at about a fourth of 64 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: the cost, and it did a good job. IMG is 65 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: now I think around as big as VWO and so 66 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: this minime move is a business decision from the issuer's 67 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 2: point of view because they just you know, they're trying 68 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 2: to appease everybody without hurting their revenue too bad. Like 69 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 2: they could just cut SPI's feet to three basis points, 70 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: but that would be instantly killing a lot of their 71 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: revenue in one shot. Sometimes they do do that, but 72 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: for these gigantic products that have so much liquidity, you 73 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: do have some pricing power there, so there you can 74 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: keep that cash cow alive and still serve the cheap 75 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: obsessed investors who don't care about volume. That's that's why. 76 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: All right, next question, Garrett O'Hara asks what future innovations 77 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: should we expect in the bond ETF space. 78 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 2: Oh, that's a good question. So fixed in come is 79 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 2: an area that is not quite doesn't get as much attention, 80 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 2: but it's been evolving a lot. Like one thing that 81 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 2: really took off that's recent is clos collateralized loan obligations. 82 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: Janis has one that's over ten billion dollars and I 83 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: thought that was proof that you can even discover new 84 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: areas of the bond market. And I think that's what 85 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 2: we're going to see is more slicing and dicing. Bond 86 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: blocks has gone out and sliced and diced the credit buckets, 87 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 2: like now you can get just triple c's. You know, 88 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: I Share already has a double B. So they're going 89 00:04:58,600 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: to go out and I think they're probably going to 90 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 2: are slicing up sectors and they might even like do 91 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 2: interesting things like maybe in the muni space they just 92 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 2: give you like hospitals and schools. What would call that 93 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 2: niche bond investing because you know, when you buy the AG, 94 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 2: you know, the AG is like huge, you get a 95 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 2: bunch of bonds. But what people are doing a little 96 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: more because the AG hasn't worked as well, is trying 97 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 2: to find pockets of fixed income that can like have 98 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 2: more juice in it. One filing we recently saw was 99 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 2: for catastrophe bonds. I don't know if that'll go through 100 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: the SEC, but that would be really interesting. But yeah, 101 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 2: I think that's what we're going to see is just 102 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 2: more slicing and dicing as well as more active. But 103 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 2: they people already do active, but there will be new 104 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 2: managers coming in for sure, So I think that's probably 105 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 2: what we can look forward to. 106 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: Okay, Brian Williams asks, do you expect to see ETFs 107 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: ever gain meaningful market share in the retirement planned world, 108 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: stuff like four one k's, four O three b's, et cetera. 109 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: Not really, as we discussed on a podcast back in 110 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 2: the day, Camera which one, But ETFs it's like Superman 111 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 2: two when he has to give up his superpowers to 112 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 2: be with Lois Lane. So he goes in this box 113 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 2: and when he's in the box, that's the box sort 114 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 2: of like takes away his ability to fly and dodge 115 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: bullets and all that stuff, and when he comes out 116 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 2: of the box, he's a human again. That is just 117 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 2: what ETFs and four to one K plans are. In 118 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 2: a four to one K plan, you don't need to 119 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 2: trade your fund, so the intrade liquidity goes away. In 120 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 2: a four one K plan, you typically get the institutional 121 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 2: share class of a mutual fund, which is the lower 122 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 2: fee class because you're pulling all your money together with 123 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 2: other colleagues, and so the cost goes away that advantage, 124 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: and then the tax efficiency of ETFs goes away because 125 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 2: it's a tax deferred plan, right, so you lose basically 126 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: the three main superpowers of ETFs. In a four to 127 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 2: one K plan. So what people do in four one 128 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 2: K plans is if they want low cost pass that 129 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: they just buy like any black Rock, State Street, Vanguard. 130 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: They all have index mutual funds that are dirt cheap 131 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 2: and the same thing you'd get from like vou or spy. 132 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 2: You just buy the mutual fund version. So people are 133 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: satisfied with that, again because they don't need to trade it. 134 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: The tax efficiency is not there. So I just am 135 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 2: a big fan of the marketplace needing it and it 136 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 2: doesn't need it here. So even though I think ETFs 137 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: are great, I think you know, they solve a lot 138 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 2: of problems. The only caveat to that is if you 139 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 2: have a small business and you can't afford the institutional 140 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 2: class like this. It's like I don't know a dozen 141 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 2: employees and collectively you don't have enough minimum investment to 142 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: get the E class pricing, that might make sense for 143 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: an ETF. The other situation would be to get really 144 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 2: like unique new stuff, like there's no way you can 145 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: get a bitcoin mutual fund, right, but if you wanted 146 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 2: a bitcoin ETF, they're available now. So a lot of 147 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: mutual funds will have a brokerage window where you can 148 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: go out and like add to your mutual funds with 149 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 2: some ETF and I think that's probably the perfect solution. 150 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 2: So they'll have a tiny little role, but I don't 151 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: think they'll ever like push out mutual funds. Four one 152 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: K plans are sort of going to be filled with 153 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 2: mutual funds for a long time. There is one other 154 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: thing is mutual funds are actually also offering CIS. I 155 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 2: won't go into that, but it's a customized mutual fund 156 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: and those are actually getting traction inside plans too because 157 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 2: people want to like negotiate the fee a little bit. 158 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: But yeah, so I'll leave it there, but I don't 159 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 2: really see much movement there. 160 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: Randall Moore asks what are your thoughts on return stacking 161 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: that is now available in an ETF wrapper going forward? 162 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 1: Would will this be a viable strategy to add into 163 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,599 Speaker 1: an alt bucket in a retirees portfolio. 164 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is a new area. Again, that's it's small, 165 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 2: but it's growing quickly. An example is our sst the 166 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 2: return stack US stocks and managed futures ETF. To keep 167 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 2: it simple, these have different arrangements, but basically this is 168 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: a strategy that gives you one hundred percent exposure to 169 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: US stocks and one hundred percent exposure to a managed 170 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 2: future's strategy. Because the futures you don't actually have to 171 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 2: buy the futures, you can borrow them. You're able to 172 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,319 Speaker 2: have two hundred percent exposure essentially. So I think in 173 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: the institution world they call this portable alpha, and so 174 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: in a way you're able to sort of like have 175 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 2: two things at once using leverage. Now, of course, if 176 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 2: both of those things go down, you can get hit 177 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 2: with a double whammy. But the idea here is just 178 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 2: getting more bang for your buck, and I get it. 179 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: I think you know, some of them are like ninety sixty. 180 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 2: They have different varieties, as every ETF category does, but 181 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: you know, I'm okay with them. I think, like I said, 182 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: this is something that an institution would do normally regularly, 183 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 2: and people are trying to again try to democratize this 184 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 2: for regular investors. Just obviously, you know, make sure that 185 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 2: you understand the category and that anything that has leverage 186 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 2: does have that. You ask yourself, Okay, what's the environment 187 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 2: where both things go down? And I think you have 188 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 2: we make sure you're ready for that. 189 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: And Rita Nanda Kumar asks, what is the ETF product 190 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: innovation over the last few years that you are most 191 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: impressed by. I love that question. 192 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I got to go with the buffers. This which 193 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:37,680 Speaker 2: is also called targeted outcome. Bruce Bond used to run 194 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 2: power Shares. Great guy and he left power Shares. Bruce 195 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 2: Bond basically started smart Beta in my opinion, and themes 196 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: he launched the first two and those are massive categories. 197 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: This guy's like a he's a very entrepreneurial dude in 198 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 2: the ETF space, and so he went I was looking 199 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 2: for something to do and found this idea of targeted outcome. 200 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: This is an ETF that uses flexible options, which are 201 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: just ctimize options that the issuer negotiates and so they 202 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 2: come up with these customize options that limit your downside. 203 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: So they'll be something like, okay, for the next two years, 204 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: we will give you up to ten percent of the 205 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 2: returns of the S and P, but on the downside, 206 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 2: you will only have to eat five percent. The rest 207 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 2: the options will cover, and so you give up some 208 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: of the upside. Usually it's the big upside for downside protection. 209 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 2: And many older investors, this is why we call them 210 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 2: boomer candy. Many older investors are very happy to make 211 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 2: that trade off because they want to be in the market. 212 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 2: They like the market, but they want protection. They want 213 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 2: to sleep at night. Reminds me of the biotech industry 214 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 2: making drugs for boomers to live longer and sleep better 215 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 2: and all that, Like, this is the same thing. These 216 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 2: are etfishoers trying to make boomers feel better and manage 217 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 2: their nerves. And honestly, when they first came out, I 218 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 2: didn't see it that way. I thought these are just 219 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: too complicated, but they sold them, and I'd heard of 220 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 2: advisers who were like, nah, I'd rather just stay diversified 221 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 2: with stocks and bonds. These aren't really worth it, because remember, 222 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 2: you can buy a money market fund now and get 223 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 2: five percent a year locked in no risk. So a 224 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 2: lot of of I was like, why don't I just 225 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 2: do that? Then I can almost replicate the buffers with 226 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 2: the regular portfolio. But the clients were like, no, I 227 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 2: want these, Like they were like chomping at the bit 228 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: to get these products. So these were a grassroots hit, 229 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 2: and I think the door on these opened big time 230 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two when the bark the aggregate bond INDECKS, 231 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 2: which is agg went down thirteen percent. So stocks were 232 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 2: down nineteen percent, but your AG was down thirteen percent. 233 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 2: In other words, your sixty was down and your forty 234 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 2: was down. Normally, boomers in particular are so used to 235 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: as bonds going up when stocks go down. So when 236 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 2: the AG went down with the stocks, they're like, wait, well, 237 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 2: where's my protection now? And they got all this nest 238 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 2: egg and they're like, I'm scared now. And so also, 239 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 2: the AGG hasn't kept up with inflation at all, and 240 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: so I think this opened the door to something more crafty, 241 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 2: some kind of a solution, and these are you know, 242 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: essentially structure products, and so I think we're going to 243 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 2: see a huge boom in these. You've now got black 244 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 2: Rock getting into this game, a lot of other big 245 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 2: firms have jumped in, so so I think we'll continue 246 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 2: to see more and more firms get get involved here 247 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 2: and you can make more money. The fees are higher, 248 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 2: so we call these vanguard free zones. So issuers love vfzs, 249 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 2: So you know we're going to see a lot of 250 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 2: action here. 251 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: William Donnie Hugh asks do you consider direct indexing to 252 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: be competition for ETFs or more like the buffalo bills 253 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: of investment products. 254 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 2: The bills have lost like force ruper bowls, I think, 255 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 2: and they're always like missing field goals at the worst time. 256 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 2: They're like a lot of hope and hype and then 257 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 2: they always disappoint. Yeah, direct indexing is something like that 258 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 2: for sure. My metaphor for direct indexing is the segue Joel, 259 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 2: Remember that that thing that you stand on that was 260 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 2: supposed to revolutionize transportation. 261 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: Why at a convention when you can segue somewhere? 262 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I went back in Google, by the way, 263 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 2: when I wrote my article on this, and they this 264 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: was really heavily pitched like that. I believe Bill Gates 265 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 2: might have been like one of the voices behind it. 266 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 2: But everybody's like, these are going to take over the world, 267 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: and they basically are used by mall cops and city 268 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 2: tours and that's it. And I think direct indexing is 269 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 2: the same thing, because direct indexing is essentially saying, hey, 270 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 2: instead of buying a cheap etf and you know, let's 271 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 2: sell that, give me your money and I'll buy I'll 272 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: recreate the ats by buying all the stocks. But if 273 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 2: you want, we can pick out a stock or two 274 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 2: to customize it to your needs, and then we can 275 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 2: do some tax loss harvesting maybe to give you some 276 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 2: extra basis points of return. There. It's a pretty decent idea. 277 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 2: I think for very wealthy people that tax benefit could 278 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: be helpful, but arguably it charged it. They want to 279 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 2: charge you like three or four times more than an ETF, 280 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 2: even ten times more. I think schwabs and fidelities di 281 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: I products are forty. But again, you can the whole 282 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 2: market for four or three basis points. You also find 283 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 2: that once you buy all these stocks and people start 284 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 2: moving stuff around, you're you're kind of being active, and 285 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 2: you can underperform, right, And I think people generally like 286 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: an incomes like a statement with like six or seven tickers, 287 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 2: not like thousands of stocks. And I think it can 288 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 2: get confusing with di I. So d I to me 289 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 2: tries to reverse three massive trends, simple, passive, and cheap, 290 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 2: and I just think those trends are way too powerful, 291 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 2: and so it'll be a niche vehicle at best. 292 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: Eric, here's an interesting what you win US. Do you 293 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: have data on how much US listed ETFs are owned 294 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: by non US investors. 295 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting question. It depends on the ETF. 296 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 2: But generally speaking, for like the big dogs like SPY 297 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 2: vu IVV, you're looking at around fifteen percent would be 298 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 2: foreign owned, and these would be like usually big institutions. 299 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 2: What we have in the US that you really don't 300 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: have anywhere else is like big boy liquidity. When you 301 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 2: go to like I don't know, a country, like you know, 302 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: I was in Mexico recently, I was in France recently. 303 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 2: The volume on these ETFs is just pretty low. So 304 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: but a retail investor, no big deal. But if you're 305 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 2: like a big institution, you want an ETF that trades 306 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 2: over a billion dollars a day, so you can come 307 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 2: in and out without anybody noticing. Low impact cost. Our 308 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 2: ETFs also tend to be cheaper than elsewhere in the world, 309 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 2: so you get lower expense ratios. That's an interesting question 310 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 2: also this year because this year in particular and last year, 311 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 2: we've actually seen more people using ETFs in their own 312 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 2: countries to get into the US. Like in China, they're 313 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 2: rushing to buy the NASAQ one hundred. That said, it's 314 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: through an ETF there that invested in NASDAC. So I 315 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 2: do think that the fifteen percent's probably got somewhat of 316 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: a lid on it. It's just big institutions who need liquidity. 317 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 2: But the money pouring into the into the US itself 318 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: via local ETFs that invest in the US is going 319 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 2: up quickly. And in Europe. Get this, there's more money 320 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 2: the Europeans have in US stock ETFs than in their 321 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: own local European stock ETFs. 322 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: Fascinating. 323 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, there's just nope, nothing like 324 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 2: like the Magnificent Seven is like a US phenomenon. And 325 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 2: so sometimes my first book I said that the US 326 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 2: we export liquidity. That's how liquid some of these names are. 327 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 2: Plus these ETFs again own the best companies in the 328 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 2: world pretty much, or at least the best performing, and 329 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 2: so it's a double magnet. Really. 330 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: Next one from Mungo Park who asks I'd be interested 331 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: in your take on alt meme style ETFs. There's INDIESH Kramer, 332 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi, Tracker Space, qqq fis AI, and other concept 333 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 1: ETFs that almost seem to be a parody similar to 334 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 1: doge or bonk. Does this cheapen finance or are these 335 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: alt DeFi style ETFs important? 336 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 2: Okay, first of all, all of them are in the 337 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 2: same kind of like wacky bucket, but then he throws 338 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 2: the cues in there. I would not call QQQ anything 339 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:15,360 Speaker 2: that is a powerhouse, locomotive stud ETF that is serious business. 340 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 2: But removing that one. Yeah, Nancy Pelosi, Jim Kramer, the 341 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 2: vice ETFs. Look, this is kind of like fun and games. 342 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 2: But I'm fine with it, and I'll tell you why. 343 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 2: Over the last thirty years, portfolios have changed and people 344 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 2: have stopped. They used to date active managers. They'd go 345 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 2: with the five star manager. When they went down, they'd 346 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 2: go with the new five star manager, and they were 347 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 2: trading their cores a lot. And then Vanguard came along 348 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: made cheap index funds, and people got married. To be honest, 349 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 2: they stopped dating active managers and got married to the 350 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 2: index fund that said married life is a little boring, right, 351 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 2: So you got to just wait thirty years for that 352 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: index fund to compound. So they like to have a 353 00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: little fund. So there's a little portion of a portfolio 354 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 2: for fun and games. We call it the hot sauce bucket, 355 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,719 Speaker 2: and there's a lot of product coming out. You can 356 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 2: charge a little more there. People have a higher feed 357 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,959 Speaker 2: budget to spend there. So I'm okay with it. And 358 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 2: if playing around and having fun and games and you know, 359 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 2: having a little you know, scratching your speculative itch a 360 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 2: little bit, if that keeps you from touching the core 361 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 2: that has to comp that you know, has to grow 362 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 2: for thirty years, it may even serve a behavioral purpose. 363 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 2: So that's how I see it, and that's why I'm 364 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 2: okay with the crazy stuff. 365 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: Hernando Cortina asks, are actively managed ETFs taking market share 366 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: from passive or from mutual funds? 367 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 2: Almost all mutual fun I'm assuming they may active mutual funds. Yes, 368 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 2: I think it's new money coming in and it's from 369 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: active mutual funds. Passive is tough. The only situation with 370 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 2: passive would be like in Vanguard's case, they're letting people 371 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 2: move from the index mutual fund into the ETF. They're 372 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 2: both doing the same thing and they can do that 373 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 2: tax free, but removing that unique situation aside. I think 374 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 2: in general, again, if you're in a fidelity index mutual 375 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 2: fund that charges two basis points or VOO, which is 376 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,360 Speaker 2: a ETF that charges two basis points, no big difference. 377 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 2: I think that it's harder, though, for an active manager 378 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 2: to peel away money in passive because, like I said, 379 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 2: most people who are impassive, especially you know, because they 380 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 2: had to find it themselves. Passive doesn't pay any brokers 381 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,399 Speaker 2: to put people in it. So if you were in 382 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 2: a passive fund, you had to find that thing, and 383 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 2: then you're like, damn, this is a good deal. It's 384 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 2: like getting married. And so an active manager promising like, 385 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 2: oh I think I can beat the market is just 386 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 2: not going to be enough to get someone out of 387 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 2: a happy marriage. So all the money is going away 388 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 2: from Active generally. That said, there are portions of the 389 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 2: portfolio that people do available for Active, and one thing 390 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 2: Active has done that's worked has gotten cheap. So now 391 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: Active is getting like below twenty even ten base points 392 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 2: and people are like, okay, well that's almost as cheap 393 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 2: as the next one. And I know you're Active, so 394 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 2: well you know, you're only charging me like ten basis 395 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 2: points for the quote Active and they're getting a little more. 396 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 2: It's more, a little more seducing droll. Low cost Active 397 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 2: is probably pulling from high cost Active, to be honest, 398 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,120 Speaker 2: more than it is from passive. But you know, who knows. 399 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 2: We'll see what happens. But right now, again, if you 400 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: can get the whole market for like three basis points, 401 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 2: and the market keeps going up like ten percent to 402 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,160 Speaker 2: twenty percent every year. I mean, it's just impossible almost 403 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 2: to like disrupt that at this point. 404 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: All right, this one's from Twitter. Uh pre State of 405 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: Florida asks explain the pre market volume. 406 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. So if you look at an ETF like Spy 407 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 2: or any any of them, well not all of them 408 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 2: trade pre market, the big ones do. You'll see a 409 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 2: price movement at like eight in the morning, and you'll 410 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 2: see volume at eight. It's not huge volume, but it's there. 411 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 2: So it's a little tricky. There's a services that allow 412 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 2: you to trade these ETFs outside of US market hour. 413 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 2: So one is called blue Ocean, and so if you 414 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 2: have a brokerage that's hooked up to blue Ocean, you 415 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 2: can trade Spy whenever you want, but you need this 416 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 2: sort of third party service to do it. And that's 417 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 2: how pre market volume happens. I think the big dogs 418 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 2: out there, like big trading shops that there also obviously 419 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 2: can do this. And so when there's something massive in 420 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 2: the market that happens, like you know, after a major event, 421 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 2: I will go to Spy, like seven thirty eight in 422 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 2: the morning and just see where it's moving. And so 423 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,959 Speaker 2: now you don't have to use the futures market anymore 424 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 2: to find out how people are reacting, can actually use 425 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 2: the pre market trading. 426 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: Sean Tufvey asks, is an ETF a mutual fund? 427 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. Yes. In fact, when ETFs 428 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 2: first were finally had to get on the market, they 429 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 2: would file for exempt of relief because they weren't quite 430 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 2: checking all the boxes of mutual fund. But at their 431 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 2: core they are a mutual fund. Now there are other 432 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 2: things like gold and bitcoin, ETFs are trusts, they're not 433 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 2: actually funds, but the vast majority of the ETF assets 434 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,719 Speaker 2: are an open ended investment vehicles, which are mutual funds 435 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 2: at their core. So, as Reggie Brown put at, ETFs 436 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 2: are essentially mutual funds with benefits. 437 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: Okay. Ken Natal asks what product strategy security needs to 438 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: be etfized. 439 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a couple of things. It's hard to eat. 440 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 2: This private equity is something they're going to continue to 441 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 2: try to ETF I's black Rock says they're going to 442 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 2: try to do it. I'm not sure how you do it. 443 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 2: You kind of need the underlying to be somewhat liquid 444 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 2: to make an ETF, but maybe that would be great. 445 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 2: If ETFs could get you access to private equity, they 446 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 2: would sell also money market funds. There's no true like 447 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: dollar nav money market fund ETF, although the Texas issuer 448 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 2: is going to try. We'll see if they can get 449 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 2: that out. Physical diamonds, there was a couple of ets 450 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 2: filed to track physical diamonds like physical gold. They never 451 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 2: got through, but I could see somebody trying that again, 452 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 2: and then like something like physical farmland or even physical 453 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 2: real estate, that would be again. I don't know how 454 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 2: they'll do it, but that's something that I think would 455 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: play well. I think some of these things are going 456 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 2: to be tokenized any area that can't be ETF as 457 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 2: I think tokens using the blockchain down the road will 458 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 2: be how they solve that. But there is one product 459 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 2: that Ethan and I talk about, a lot that actually 460 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,479 Speaker 2: Tom Keen back in the day used to bring up 461 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 2: a lot as a joke. I'd go on his radio 462 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 2: show and he'd be like, when's the triple leveraged cash 463 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 2: ETF coming out? And because there was all these crazy launches, 464 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 2: but now that cash yields five percent we're surprised nobody 465 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 2: has tried a two x or three x money market 466 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 2: type like a treasury built fund where you could double 467 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 2: or triple that that yield. Just like that, I think 468 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 2: people would like that load duration and plus the yield 469 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 2: with a little leverage. I can see something like that 470 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: coming out too, but that's just it's an example of 471 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 2: like a product that I that I could see coming out, 472 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 2: But those other areas are bigger, but it'd be interesting. 473 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 2: You know, the ETF industry, as you know, joels like 474 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 2: the Silicon Valley of the asset management world, and they 475 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 2: are going to just keep you know, experimenting and trying 476 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 2: what whatever they can because there is it's like a 477 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 2: you know, it's like the gold rush. There is rewards 478 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 2: to be had if you can get into something first, 479 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 2: and that will keep people trying almost anything and pushing 480 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 2: the envelope. 481 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: Okay, Eric Terry Lennox asks, did you know that vt 482 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: I and chill is something teens say to each other. 483 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: Did you know that? I did not know that? 484 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 2: I did? I did? I did I? Well, I didn't 485 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 2: know that, but I first of all, I'm just assuming 486 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 2: vt I is is the ETF ticker and not something else. 487 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my assumption too, assuming. 488 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 2: It's the Vanguard Total Market fund. That is interesting to 489 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 2: me and a good sign. I was recently at my 490 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 2: friend's fiftieth birthday and I was talking to my old 491 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 2: friend from college who is a doctor now, and he 492 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 2: was talking about listening to more financial radio. He's like, 493 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 2: I know, I could just VO and chill, but I'm 494 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 2: interested for more. And so I was like, wait, would 495 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 2: you just say vo and chill? So I do think 496 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 2: the retail world has uh, you know, it's almost like 497 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 2: Netflix and Chill. I guess for Vanguard, Vanguard should run 498 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 2: with that there, you know, stop the commercials with like 499 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 2: old people going to graduations and run with something more 500 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 2: fun like this. If people are naturally coming out with 501 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 2: these sort of viral phrases about your products, I think 502 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 2: it's great. I mean VO and chill, VTI and chill. 503 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 2: That is a pretty good way to invest. I mean, 504 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 2: that's smart in my opinion. So it's good they're saying that. 505 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 2: I'm surprised. 506 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: Last question comes from a fellow named Todd Rosenbluth, who 507 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: shows up on the podcast from time to time a 508 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: little bit of a rival of yours. Peer when is 509 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 1: the last time you won an ETF stick dinner bet? 510 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: Derek Paultchunis and then he has a photo of you 511 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: guys having dinner together. So I guess you've been on 512 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: a little losing streak. 513 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 2: I have these bets, though, I gotta be honest. I 514 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 2: feel like I win in spirit. I just lose by 515 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 2: some slight technicality. But I think I'm three and two still. 516 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 2: I think I won the first three and then he's 517 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,719 Speaker 2: won the next two. Yeah, so I guess it's been 518 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 2: a couple of years, but I'm gonna be back. 519 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: Okay, you heard it there, Todd Eric. These are some 520 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: great questions. I just want to say thank you to 521 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: everybody who asked them and everybody who listened to the podcast. 522 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: Will do another one of these episodes before too long, 523 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: and hope that everybody brings some more great questions for us. 524 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on Trillions, Eric, Thanks for listening 525 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: to Trillions until next time. You can find us on 526 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or 527 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: wherever else if you'd like to listen. We'd love to 528 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: hear from you. We're on Twitter. I'm at Joel Weber Show. 529 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: He's at Eric Baltuna's. This episode of Trillions was produced 530 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: by Magnus Hendrickson. Bye