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Speaker 1: Only Fans. We all know what that is. It's a

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Speaker 1: poor in sight essentially. But there are some classy models

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Speaker 1: on Only Fans, but this ain't one of them. An

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Speaker 1: Only Fans star now charged with murder too, And somehow

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Speaker 1: this whole thing has gotten twisted up to where her

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Speaker 1: lawyer is claiming she's actually the victim. Well, recent audio

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Speaker 1: recordings that we have obtained certainly don't help that argument.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I see, Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation in series

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Speaker 1: M one eleven. How did the whole thing start? Listen

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Speaker 1: to our friends w s V in a bloody Sunday

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Speaker 1: domestic killing inside a trendy Miami high rise. I think

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Speaker 1: everybody into actually like clabergap. These images come courtesy of TMZ.

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Speaker 1: The Sparkling One Putty is So condominium is where it

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Speaker 1: got violent days ago, and now a twenty seven year

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Speaker 1: old man is dead and his family is devastated. Courtney Clenny,

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Speaker 1: a famous Instagram model, is who Miami police say was

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Speaker 1: involved in a physical altercation with obum Selly, who was stabbed. Wow,

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Speaker 1: the way they said that the Sparkling One Pariso condominium,

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Speaker 1: you know it actually makes me think of the Emerald

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Speaker 1: City and the worzard of Oz. How in the distance

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Speaker 1: you see this beautiful sparkling high rise castle, the sparkling

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Speaker 1: one pariso condominium. Well that proves it doesn't matter where

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Speaker 1: you live, or how much money you have, or education

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Speaker 1: or what color you are, doesn't matter. Crime can and

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Speaker 1: we'll find its way into your life. And only fans

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Speaker 1: model now charged with the murder. How the hey is

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Speaker 1: this twisted around to where she is the victim? Take

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Speaker 1: a listen, Nat to our friends at WPLG. Following the stabbing,

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Speaker 1: Clenny was detained. She was brought here to the police

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Speaker 1: department for questioning, and during that process she was threatening

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Speaker 1: to kill herself, so officers took her to the hospital

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Speaker 1: where she was Baker acted. As it stands at this moment,

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Speaker 1: she has not been charged. Detectives revealed Christian of m

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Speaker 1: Selly was stabbed during an argument inside their luxury Miami

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Speaker 1: apartment in April. After the stabbing, video obtained by TMZ

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Speaker 1: shows Clenny handcuffed and covered in blood sitting on the floor.

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Speaker 1: Clenny was not charged during the initial investigation. What not charged?

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Speaker 1: She's sitting on the balcony of a high rise. Translation,

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Speaker 1: nobody went in or came out high rise balcony covered

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Speaker 1: and her boyfriend's blood and she's not charged? What because

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Speaker 1: she's pretty and has a big bosom? Is that why

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Speaker 1: she's not charged? Okay, she's what too pretty for jail?

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Speaker 1: Did you hear that earlier part? You know, I want

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Speaker 1: to go to you, Charlie Langston, female editor. That's Effie

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Speaker 1: in a I l at dailymail dot com. But I've

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Speaker 1: got to just go to doctor Charles Heller Heller, clinical

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Speaker 1: forensic psychologist specializing in domestic violence. He's at Rutger's Biomedical

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Speaker 1: and Health Sciences. Doctor Heller, is there a clinical term

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Speaker 1: for drama queen? The boyfriend is stad dead and then

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Speaker 1: she's what hyperventilating and her push up bra on the

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Speaker 1: balcony covered in his blood and she threatens to kill herself. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course she didn't kill herself. But just what's the

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Speaker 1: word for that? Histrionic? I guess I bet you've got

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Speaker 1: a really big word for drama queen. Well, we could

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Speaker 1: start with narcissism. We could go to antisocial personality, disorder,

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Speaker 1: borderline personality. Also, there's a strange addiction that people have

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Speaker 1: to other people quote code dependency, and I think both

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Speaker 1: of these people were addicted to each other and could

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Speaker 1: not leave each other. Okay, hold on, hold on, I've

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Speaker 1: got something to throw at you. Okay, everybody on the panel,

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Speaker 1: just hold on him on. Doctor Heller with me is

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Speaker 1: a renowned expert, Doctor Charles Heller, forensic psychologist at Rockland

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Speaker 1: County Chief Forensic Consultant and at Rutger's Biomedical. That's not shabby,

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Speaker 1: doctor Heller. Maybe you can put this in the correct

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Speaker 1: clinical terms. But I've had friend girls in the past say, oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't like him. He's born. I'm like, whoa, whoa,

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute. You've dated all these losers who stand

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Speaker 1: you up, who cheat on you. They're drinkers, they do drugs,

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Speaker 1: they're unemployed than they're employed. You know, they yell at

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Speaker 1: your children. You go up and down and up, and

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Speaker 1: now you finally get a decent guy and he's boring. Seriously,

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Speaker 1: what is that when you are so addicted to the

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Speaker 1: roller coaster of an abusive or toxic relationship, you're so

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Speaker 1: addicted when you finally get a nice guy that works

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Speaker 1: for a living, comes home, takes you out to dinner,

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Speaker 1: that's boring. You don't want red lobster anymore. You want

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Speaker 1: to go have a fight in the parking lot. What

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Speaker 1: is that? Well, first of all, that kind of person

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Speaker 1: also has an addiction, an addictive personality, and they crave

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Speaker 1: certain stimuli in another person that gives them, like a

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Speaker 1: high and being close to another person like that is

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Speaker 1: what they crave and they want to control that person.

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Speaker 1: Did you think it's not necessarily a personality trait, but

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Speaker 1: their conditioned to it. They're used to the highs and

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Speaker 1: the lows and the roller coaster and the happiness when

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Speaker 1: he brings the roses, and the despair when he doesn't

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Speaker 1: show up overnight. You're like, wow, is he with a hooker?

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Speaker 1: I mean that when you're used to that and then

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Speaker 1: you have a somewhat normal relationship, that's boring, right. I

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Speaker 1: don't know that that would be a personality trait. It

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Speaker 1: could be just what you're used to. Like children that

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Speaker 1: grow up in a violent home, they're really not happy

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Speaker 1: until they are in a violent home themselves, and that

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Speaker 1: feels normal to them. Well, co dependency is a family disease,

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Speaker 1: just like alcoholism, and it starts in the family you

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Speaker 1: grew up in. Guys, you're hearing doctor Charles Heller, and

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Speaker 1: I haven't even gotten into the facts yet. We have

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Speaker 1: an all star panel with us. But I just had

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Speaker 1: to go to doctor Heller about this woman the only

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Speaker 1: fans model and no Charlie Langston, editor of Female Femail

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Speaker 1: at dailymail dot com. Charlie, how is it? He's dead

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Speaker 1: from multiple stabounds on the floor and she turns out

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Speaker 1: to me the victim and threatens to kill herself. Really,

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Speaker 1: she is claiming that he was stabbed in self defense.

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Speaker 1: She claims that he grabbed her by the throat and

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Speaker 1: that she grabbed the knife to defend herself. However, I

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Speaker 1: should point out the cops who went to the apartment

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Speaker 1: said that there was absolutely no evidence of any injury

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Speaker 1: on her body, So there is extreme doubt over her

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Speaker 1: claims that he grabbed her by the throat. He did

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Speaker 1: that and left not a single mock. It can't have

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Speaker 1: been violent enough in my opinion to warrant a response

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Speaker 1: with a knight. Brad and Michelin is joining us, guys.

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Speaker 1: He is a very high profile lawyer joining us, lead attorney,

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Speaker 1: managing member at the Michelin Law Group, joining us out

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Speaker 1: of New Jersey. You can find him at Michelin Lawgroup

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Speaker 1: dot com. Brad I hate a lot of aspects regarding

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Speaker 1: criminal defendants, but one thing I really hate, and this

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Speaker 1: is having defended battered women for many, many years and

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Speaker 1: work as a volunteer for nearly ten years at the

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Speaker 1: Battered Women's Center. I hate when women aggressors, women bullies,

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Speaker 1: women killers use the battered women's syndrome to their benefit

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Speaker 1: when it's not true, because people hear about it, and

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Speaker 1: then when they're sitting on a jury with a real

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Speaker 1: battered woman, they go, oh, this is bs. See what

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Speaker 1: I mean. I agree, it's it's supposed to be a

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Speaker 1: shield of protection battered Women's syndrome, the domestic violence protection orders,

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Speaker 1: but people will use it as a weapon, and then

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Speaker 1: when the victim is dead and can't defend himself, it's

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Speaker 1: an easy defense to use. I mean, your whole conversation

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Speaker 1: with doctor Hellard before was implicitly saying Christian was to blame,

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Speaker 1: that she was addicted to his abuse, to his dependency,

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Speaker 1: and we're already talking about what did he do, what

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Speaker 1: was his role in this, without talking about the fact

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Speaker 1: that she stabbed them, and everything that was recorded and

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Speaker 1: shown shows that she goes from calm to rage and

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Speaker 1: nothing more. On the other hand, you really can't ignore

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Speaker 1: the statistics that typically, overwhelmingly, like ninety plus percent of

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Speaker 1: the time, it is the male that is the aggressor.

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Speaker 1: I can't avoid that truth, and that's the truth we've

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Speaker 1: got to deal with. But speaking of her being the

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Speaker 1: victor truth unless you accept that stat I mean, I

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Speaker 1: get a stat to support any of it. Well, I

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Speaker 1: usually stay with the Department of Justice, and um, should

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Speaker 1: I believe you, Michelin or my lion eyes. I know

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Speaker 1: what I saw in court every day for ten straight

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Speaker 1: years plus. I know what I saw at Grady Memorial

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Speaker 1: Hospital where all the beat up women go. I know

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Speaker 1: what I saw at the Battered Women's Center, night after

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Speaker 1: night after night, a battered women. So you are, my

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Speaker 1: lion eyes. Let me think about that. We are often

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Speaker 1: significant victims of domestic violence. But that doesn't lege the

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Speaker 1: fact that justice nas men are too. Just more of

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Speaker 1: them are straight. I don't know why you're smoking, man,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not getting near it. So the claim that

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Speaker 1: she is the victim, I've taken. Listen now to our

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Speaker 1: cut ten. This is our friends. These are our friends

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Speaker 1: at Fox seven and w PLG and closed doors. We

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Speaker 1: just started hearing some shouting, yelling. We don't know who

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Speaker 1: was starting what. We didn't get a lot of contacts.

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Speaker 1: Occasionally we would hear some glasses break and some banging

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Speaker 1: on the walls, floors. Not sure you know who was

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Speaker 1: doing it. I just want people to know that it

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Speaker 1: had been going on for a long time and it

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Speaker 1: definitely could have been stopped. When police reported that Obam

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Speaker 1: Selly was fatally stabbed by Clanny on Sunday inside their

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Speaker 1: Miami apartment, the friends were left speechless. They portray a

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Speaker 1: very violent relationship at the hands of only one person.

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Speaker 1: See her hit him. I've never seen him hit her.

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Speaker 1: But regardless of what friends and neighbors insist to be true,

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Speaker 1: somehow the only fans model is being painted as the

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Speaker 1: victim taking listen to our friends at WPLG. Her lawyers

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Speaker 1: sent me this statement. It reads in part of m

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Speaker 1: Selli attacked her and choked her that evening, Courtney had

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Speaker 1: no choice but to meet force with force. In April,

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Speaker 1: a neighbor told Local ten he had a clear view

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Speaker 1: of the couple's apartment and saw Clenny getting physically abused

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Speaker 1: of Himselly's family says he was not abusive and have

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Speaker 1: been vocal calling for an arrest in his case. Crime

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace and knows All that he is

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Speaker 1: stabbed to death and she, obviously the stabber, is not charged,

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Speaker 1: insisting that she is the victim that really listen to this,

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Speaker 1: He me, what is going out? Like? What do you?

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Speaker 1: Are you going to apologize to you Christian? But you're

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Speaker 1: taking on your am sorry. The right thing to do

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Speaker 1: was to tell me yes, and I am so sorry,

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Speaker 1: So shut up. Let me give you have your phone

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Speaker 1: and find it and I'm sorry, I don't care. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's not gonna help her claim that she's the victim.

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Speaker 1: To Charlie LinkedIn joining us from dailymail dot Com, the

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Speaker 1: editor of Female, what did I just hear? I heard

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Speaker 1: her going crazy on him, cursing at him, ordering him around.

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Speaker 1: She's saying something like you touched her. The right thing

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Speaker 1: to do is to tell me she is really letting

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Speaker 1: him have it. He's going, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. What

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Speaker 1: was that all about? So what you were hearing? That?

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Speaker 1: Were they recording that album Selly himself made. It's one

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Speaker 1: of multiple recordings of moments when Clenny was abusive towards him.

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Speaker 1: Some of the other recordings are even more horrific. You

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Speaker 1: can hear her physically slapping him. You can hear her

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Speaker 1: repeatedly calling him the N word. She swears at him,

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Speaker 1: she blickles him, she breats him. Did you say call

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Speaker 1: him the N Word's White pulled him the N word

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Speaker 1: on multiple occasions, and he recorded all of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right, Charlie Lankston. There are a lot of audio

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Speaker 1: tapes and guess what we've got them. This is reminding

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Speaker 1: me of Johnny Depp versus Amber heard was not quite

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Speaker 1: as much money involved. Take a listen to this. Yeah fine, fine,

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Speaker 1: it's can you help me find it? I why you mean? Man? Man? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Man yeah, man yeah man. Yeah's man? Okay, sadly you're

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Speaker 1: gonna hear more. Listen. I need you find because I

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Speaker 1: did on my arm to go out. No, just fine,

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Speaker 1: I don't have to phone, just just cc he just

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Speaker 1: please shut up, shut up, you want to go, I talk.

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Speaker 1: I didn't go to go yet. I was told I

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Speaker 1: was told me about it. Enough, what do you okay,

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Speaker 1: put on your seatbelt because there's a lot more joining me.

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Speaker 1: Dan Quarcentina for police chief, former sheriff, served on Home

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Speaker 1: US Homeland Security Senior Advisory Board, now private investigator. You

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Speaker 1: can find him at Dan Korsantino dot com. He seems

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Speaker 1: to know everything about every high profile case that I'm

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Speaker 1: interested in. Dan Korsantino murder very often we don't know

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Speaker 1: what led up to it. We don't know what's going

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Speaker 1: on behind the scenes. But what do you make of

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Speaker 1: what you're hearing right now? All this over a lost iPhone?

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Speaker 1: You find my iPhone? For Pete's sake? Why are they

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Speaker 1: fighting over an iPhone to this degree? What's happening? And

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Speaker 1: he is up stabbed dead? Well to me, obviously, it's

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Speaker 1: a very dysfunctional relationship to say the very minimum. But

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Speaker 1: as you take a look at the pattern of behavior

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Speaker 1: with missus Clinty in this situation, it appears that she

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Speaker 1: and I hate to use the terminology as a spoil

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Speaker 1: a little brat, but it appears that she is a

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Speaker 1: young woman who is wants to be controlling, demanding in

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Speaker 1: the situation, and if she's not getting her way, she

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Speaker 1: escalates her behavior. And obviously, not being a psychologist, but

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Speaker 1: being a cop, one of the things you look for

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Speaker 1: upon enduring a situation is the demeanor of the individuals

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Speaker 1: or individual that is in the house. And in this case,

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Speaker 1: she may have fooled some people, are attempted to fool

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Speaker 1: some people because you know, she was an only fans model.

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Speaker 1: She was acting, and she's a very good actress. You

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Speaker 1: know what. I'm trying to absorb everything that you just

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Speaker 1: said because there are parts of that there. It's very

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Speaker 1: profound as it relates to the probitive nature of Clinny's personality.

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Speaker 1: Only Linkston, what about it? Did you hear what Qarcentina

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Speaker 1: just said? I did? And did you see that picture Charlie,

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Speaker 1: Charlie Linkston joining us to him dalmail dot com of

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Speaker 1: her sitting on the balcony covered in blood, but somehow

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Speaker 1: she manages to have her left breast hanging out. I

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Speaker 1: did at least get there, okay, and the dog. Nobody's

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Speaker 1: commented on that, but I mean, there it is, and

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Speaker 1: the dog is sitting there just looking at her, like,

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Speaker 1: what did you just do? Do you see this? I did,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's in your article, Charlie looking right

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Speaker 1: at it and it I mean, it's unbelievably shocking, and

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Speaker 1: I think I mean, the cups are coming, so hey,

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Speaker 1: just take your breast out. Well, and I think you

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Speaker 1: know the image that was portrayed, whether or not it

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Speaker 1: was constructed or real, is the is an image of

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Speaker 1: someone who is trying to look in a state of

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Speaker 1: emotional distress, because that is one of the things that

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Speaker 1: she has claimed. But there is no way she could

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Speaker 1: be responsible. There's no way that she could have intended

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Speaker 1: to kill him because she was in such a state

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Speaker 1: of emotional distress when cops arrived. That's not someone who

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Speaker 1: intended to kill someone or it's someone that killed their

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Speaker 1: boyfriend in an angry Braddy fit. Yeah, couldn't get the

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Speaker 1: MTS there fast enough to save his life. Neither she

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Speaker 1: cared knows the cops are there, so she takes her

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Speaker 1: breast out. I don't know what effect that's going to

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Speaker 1: have on a female cop running up what fifteen flights stairs,

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Speaker 1: but that said, there it is. That's something for the

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Speaker 1: jury to mull. Joining me. Doctor Todd M. Barr, board

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Speaker 1: certified an atomic clinical forensic pathologist, joining us out of

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Speaker 1: Ohio featured in Thin Places Essays from in Between and

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Speaker 1: you can find them on Twitter at Todd Barr MA

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Speaker 1: that stands for medical examiner, doctor Barr. What do you

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Speaker 1: make of this copious amount of blood from a stab

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Speaker 1: to the shoulder. Well, yeah, Nancy, I'm looking at the

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Speaker 1: crime scene photos and um, which crime scene photos of

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Speaker 1: her on the balcony with her breast hanging out. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's that, but that too, the picture of the knife

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Speaker 1: on the floor with the blood batter all over the

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Speaker 1: walls and all over the floor. Clearly an artery was hit.

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Speaker 1: That's a UM, A lot of blood spatter and and

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Speaker 1: coming from a from an artery which is under great pressure. Um.

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Speaker 1: And and the fact you know which artery the karated um, Well,

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Speaker 1: if he was stabbed, yeah, it's probably the subclavian artery

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Speaker 1: of the break heal artery, one of the Oh okay,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, I'm just a JD. You're the MD.

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Speaker 1: The what we only we typically hear of the kartid

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Speaker 1: in the neck or the femeral in the leg. What

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Speaker 1: are the ones you just said? Break he'll that means

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Speaker 1: arm right exactly. And subclavian is what comes off of

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Speaker 1: the eight order that feeds the blood to the shoulder

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Speaker 1: area to the breakbclavian. Now clavicle is this right. Yeah, okay, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jackie is saying, yes, So sud means below that

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Speaker 1: there's an artery there and the break your artery in

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Speaker 1: your arm correct. Yeah, So all of those blood vessels

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Speaker 1: and all the nerves that feed the arm, everything sort

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Speaker 1: of come together right through and they sort of traverseed

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Speaker 1: down through the armpit and down into the arm area.

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Speaker 1: But this is from something that was arterial in nature,

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Speaker 1: as far as I can tell from the pictures I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at. When you say it that way, it sounds

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Speaker 1: like you're dissecting a bug arterial in nature. You mean

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Speaker 1: she stabbed him in an artery? Is that what that means? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what that means. You know, Um, did you

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Speaker 1: ever see the Beverly Hill Billy's by chance? Oh? Yeah? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so in the beginning you see Jed Uncle Jed shoot

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Speaker 1: after I guess you at an animal, but he hits

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Speaker 1: takes his gold oil and it starts bubbling up. Remember that? Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I've kind of used that comparing an artery stab to

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Speaker 1: a jury. An artery that's more like a regular vein,

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Speaker 1: and artery is more like have you ever driven by

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Speaker 1: a fire? Hij and just see the worst shooting out

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Speaker 1: exactly that's a stab in the artery. That's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: That it's under intense high pressure. Every time the heart contracts,

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Speaker 1: it's forcing that blood into those arteries. So and the

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Speaker 1: heart is just a solid muscle, so every time it squeezes,

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Speaker 1: it's going to shoot that blood out. Um. In fact,

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Speaker 1: names are under very low pressure because they're just sort

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Speaker 1: of returning the blood back to the heart, So it's

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Speaker 1: sort of a passive movement of blood in the in

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Speaker 1: the venus system. But arterial blood is under high pressure.

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Speaker 1: Haven't I told you you need to do an audio

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Speaker 1: book when you just talk about cases and explain it,

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Speaker 1: because that is incredibly interesting. Um, just in the way

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Speaker 1: you explain it makes so much sense. I mean, Charlie

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Speaker 1: links And now let's take what doctor Todd M barr

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Speaker 1: has said and apply it to this situation. And he

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Speaker 1: goes right back to that picture of her and her

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Speaker 1: one breast hanging out on the balcony, and she's totally

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Speaker 1: it's so bloody. It looks like a Halloween costume. It does.

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Speaker 1: It's the it's gory and graphic. Okay, now we're back

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Speaker 1: back to the actual crime. Um we were talking about.

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Speaker 1: I was playing for you these recently uncovered audio. Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: they're not over yet. Take a listen to this. I

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Speaker 1: didn't go to I was going on a bike ride.

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Speaker 1: I want to make you act like this Corney. I

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Speaker 1: was on the bike ride and she passed me and

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Speaker 1: I said, Hi, you and Corney are having a a lifechat.

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Speaker 1: My bad. I forgot to tell you that that doesn't

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Speaker 1: make you the acting Come me, yes, thinking coming, thank yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: The operator answer to the emergency my name one? Why

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Speaker 1: a you? All right? Man? Listen to me. You need

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Speaker 1: to stop steaming on the line and give me the address.

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Speaker 1: On one can't keep my arm? What do you want?

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Speaker 1: The one? I can't kill my arm? What? Man? But

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Speaker 1: my girlfriend is dying? Man, what is the address? What's okay?

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Speaker 1: One thirty one? You don't coming time? Please God, please

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Speaker 1: come to my head. You're hearing at the beginning more screaming,

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Speaker 1: and you also hear her Courtney Clinney slapping him, Christian

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Speaker 1: open Sally and the whole thing is on audio, which

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Speaker 1: begs the question why was he videoing or taping the argument?

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Speaker 1: And then you hear the star of the whole trial

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Speaker 1: her nine one one call screaming again, and the despatch says,

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Speaker 1: you gotta stop screaming and tell me your address, and

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Speaker 1: you can hear probably some of the last words ever

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Speaker 1: spoken by Christian, and he is saying, I'm dying. I

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Speaker 1: can't fill my arm. I'm going to die. I want

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Speaker 1: to ask you, Charlie Lanks, and we endured together. The

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Speaker 1: Johnny Depp Amber heard trial, and people kept saying, why

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Speaker 1: would she was she starting an argument with him and

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Speaker 1: then videoing him or videoing him drunk, or videoing him

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Speaker 1: drunk and passed out with ice cream melting in his lap? Why?

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Speaker 1: I mean, if my husband was in a bad way

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Speaker 1: and he was passed out with ice cream or food

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Speaker 1: all over him, I wouldn't video it. So in this case, however,

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Speaker 1: why is he Christian o'mselly audiotaping the argument where she's

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Speaker 1: physically attacking him because some woman rode by him on

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Speaker 1: a bike and said hi to me. The fact that

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Speaker 1: he was recording her is evidence that their relationship had

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Speaker 1: been abusive for a very long time. There's also other

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Speaker 1: evidence to back that up. You've got neighbors talking about

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Speaker 1: smashing things. She had been arrested previously for domestic violence.

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Speaker 1: And I think he knew that the face that she

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Speaker 1: was showing to the world was a very different face

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Speaker 1: than the one that he saw behind the scenes. And

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Speaker 1: he knew that in order to protect himself, he needed

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Speaker 1: to make these retardings so that he would have evidence

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Speaker 1: if he ever got into a situation where she tried

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Speaker 1: to flip the script and say that he had been abusive.

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Speaker 1: And the devastating thing is these recordings will now serve

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Speaker 1: as evidence, but not to protect him. They will serve

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Speaker 1: as evidence in a murder trial. I doubt it could

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Speaker 1: have anticipated that change in the script. Charlie lanks And

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Speaker 1: joining us from Daily mil dot com Crime Stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Doctor Charles Heller, clinical forensic psychologist. I agree

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Speaker 1: with what Charlie lynks And just said. It tells me

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Speaker 1: he was abused so often he finally started recording it. Nancy,

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Speaker 1: these people were addicted to each other. They she was

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Speaker 1: really inappropriate, and she was very jealous. Anytime he looked

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Speaker 1: at someone, she probably would have a fit, a bad one.

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Speaker 1: You know, I don't get that. You know, when my

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Speaker 1: husband go jogging for a walk and a woman goes

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Speaker 1: by and he glances over and I'm like, good, I'm

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Speaker 1: glad to say you're still alive, David, keep going, still,

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Speaker 1: your blood still pumping through your veins. I wouldn't think

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Speaker 1: of yelling and beating him because he spoke to some

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Speaker 1: lady just it's so twisted up. But to you, Brad Micklin,

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Speaker 1: high profile lawyerate the Micklin Law Group, this is exactly

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Speaker 1: what leads up something as stupid as saying hi to

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Speaker 1: a woman going by on a bike to murder. It's

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Speaker 1: it's insane, It is insane, and we keeps having this

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Speaker 1: conversation about him being addicted to her or the relationship

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Speaker 1: being abusive. No, she was abusive. She stabbed them. And

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Speaker 1: I think Christian was word is because he knew or

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Speaker 1: feared that she would call the police one day say

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Speaker 1: he was committing domestic violence and he would be arrested

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Speaker 1: for it, and him being bigger and stronger, but have

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Speaker 1: no defense. So we started to record it to defend himself,

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Speaker 1: which unfortunately he can't do any longer. And I hope

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Speaker 1: that they're used in a criminal trawler to show just

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Speaker 1: how violence she lives. Okay, guys, her claim that she's

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Speaker 1: a victim well, this is not going to help. This

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Speaker 1: is body camp foodge and you know what that means.

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Speaker 1: That means the cops have arrived. This is a previous event. Listen, yes, yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: but let me talk. Okay, I still very like, why

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Speaker 1: do you have sing like? I'm sure it's so Unfortunately

423
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: he can be viewed the property. That's totally okay. Really

424
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: it's everybody talking on top of each other. But we

425
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: hear her and this is to a cop. I do

426
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: not advise speaking down to or being belligerent to a cop. Mmm, no,

427
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: what's happening there? It's Charlie Lankston. So this was recorded

428
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 1: the day before Abham Sully was stabbed and the cops

429
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: were called to her apartment building. She claims that she

430
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: had thrown Abham Sully out of their apartment the week

431
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: before that they had broken up, and she accused him

432
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: of stalking her, and she demanded that the cops give

433
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: her a restraining order. The interesting thing is you can

434
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: hear her in one recording telling the cops I need

435
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: a restraining order before he gets one, which suggests to

436
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: me that she knew that he had a full claim

437
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: to accuse her of the same kind of abuse. But

438
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: she was attempting to accuse him. All. Oh, there you go,

439
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: dueling with training orders. But the thing here is she's

440
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: claiming he's stalking her. Other reports are he was trying

441
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: to just get back in the apartment where they both lived. Well,

442
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: there's more. Uh, you know, this should be assigned to

443
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: her defense attorney. Don't let her on the stand. Take

444
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: a listen to this more body cam footage. I see

445
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: it in my apartment all day. I didn't take my

446
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: dogs out for like eight hours because I was afraid

447
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: that when I came down here, I was doing you know,

448
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: I did do I want my dogs. I think you

449
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't do you have any property in your apartment? Her

450
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: so much? Can I respect? Can ever? Please? I just

451
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: I just feel like I'm not being hurt. Okay. So

452
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: I had a lot of opportities and I did not know.

453
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: So when I when he's following around as puts hurt,

454
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: I said, there is no your time is up like that,

455
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: and then all of us like I was, and I

456
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: said show me like I really got angry because I

457
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: did not. I only did see my dogs. Okay, So

458
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: basically she's saying I was afraid I want to take

459
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: my dogs out, but I couldn't. But it sounds like

460
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 1: she actually did and that he got on the elevator.

461
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:37,959
Speaker 1: And her complaint is he quote smells like a homeless shelter. Okay, um,

462
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: so she stabbed him. There's more. Listen. This is what

463
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: Charlie Linkston was telling us. She wants to get a

464
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: restraining order against him before he can do it to her, listener,

465
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: I feel, all right, so what do you what do

466
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: you want? What do you want to say? I just

467
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: I want I wanted to be like I'm trying to

468
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: be like moderated, like anything wrong, and I want him

469
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: first year. I want me restraining order against Christian. So

470
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: I'm can I do that first? Because I know him

471
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: and you would do it? How can I meant myself first?

472
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 1: You got to get there first person the way we

473
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: don't even know how it looks like, how do we

474
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: know it? Oh my goodness. Okay, Charlie Lyson more of

475
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: the same. But here we hear her stating that she

476
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 1: wants to get him before he gets her. Yeah, what

477
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 1: more do you believe is revealed in these tapes? I mean,

478
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: I think there are so many different recordings that focus

479
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: on her abusive, erratic behavior, and it just proved that

480
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: the dynamic in the relationship was largely from what we

481
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: hear her berating and abusing him. As we heard a

482
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: friends of the couple stated very clearly that they saw

483
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 1: Clenny hit abham Selly. They never saw the violence being returned.

484
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: We also had video footage from inside the elevator of

485
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: their apartment building months before abham Selly was stabbed, but

486
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: showed Clenny beating him, pulling his hair, and all he

487
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: does is cower away an attempt to defend him to

488
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: Dan Corsentino joining us for em police chief Sheriff, US

489
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: Homeland Security advisor, private investigator at Dan Coorsentino dot com.

490
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: Elevator video, it really came to the forefront and the

491
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: rice case where you see him and this is a

492
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: professional football player dragging the victim, a female victim, by

493
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: her hair, out of the elevator. And then of course

494
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: there was the famous or should I say infamous Beyonce video.

495
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: You say, her sister light into Beyonce's husband jay Z,

496
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: like there's no tomorrow and I guarantee you going out

497
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: on a lamb here. He deserved it because she just

498
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: stood there like mmmmm while her sister was beating him up.

499
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: Elevator footage, nobody can suppress it. It's in a public place,

500
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: so it's fair game. And the elevator footage in this

501
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: case is damning for her. Absolutely. In this case, she

502
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: is demonstrative, she's aggressive, she is violent, and she's attacking.

503
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: And what we see, let's compare the size of the two.

504
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,760
Speaker 1: She appears to be about five ft two. He appears

505
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: to be at least five ten, maybe a little bit taller,

506
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: somewhat buff, but very good shape, and he was on

507
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 1: the defensive. In this case, an elevator video is very

508
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: clear that she is a violent offender that attacked him

509
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: and he was trying to protect himself from everything she

510
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: was attempting to do. Strike him in the head, strike

511
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: him in the chest, strike him in the arm, very

512
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: very definitive. Doctor Charles Heller joining us a clinical forensic psychologists.

513
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: Why is it so hard for people to believe that

514
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: a man can be the victim and domestic viole, Well,

515
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 1: it goes against the stereotypes, basically, But he could not

516
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: leave her even though she was violent with him, jealous,

517
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 1: making up imaginary things about him, and that's codependency, that's

518
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: dual addition. And what happens is basically, it's so strong,

519
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: the bond is so strong, and in metaphor metaphoric terms,

520
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: the pegs in his head matched exactly the holes in

521
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: her head. They were bonded so night weave together that

522
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: they couldn't explicate themselves. He couldn't leave her and she

523
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: couldn't leave him. You know, the officers really hit the

524
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: nail on the head. Take a listen to our friends

525
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: at wplg R cut thirty four, also informing her that

526
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: she's not been clear on what she wants. You want

527
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: this person to completely disappear from your life at the

528
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: same time, you have any in your apartment here for

529
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: two months without tunnel stuff in here, but I know.

530
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: Clenny goes back to her apartment. Officers then go to

531
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 1: the employee who made the original call, telling him she

532
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: never disclosed that there was violence that particular night he

533
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: went charging her. That's fine, that's one right, But she

534
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 1: didn't mention none of that until she says she wants

535
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: to do something about it. So we can get so

536
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: we can so we that's where we step anywhere. It's

537
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: a criminal activity, but she needs to mention something about that. Unfortunately,

538
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: what we can do anything? So she calls cops over there,

539
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: but then doesn't do doesn't get four with any type

540
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 1: of action. Brad Mick one with me, high profile lawyer

541
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: out of New Jersey. Brad, where do you believe this

542
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: whole thing will end? And you apparently firmly believe men

543
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: can be the victims of domestic violence. Men are the

544
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,279
Speaker 1: victims of domestic violence. Just like doctor Heller said, they

545
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: are stereotypically afraid to call and report it. I mean,

546
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 1: can you imagine if Christian had picked up the phone

547
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 1: and said, my little girlfriend Courtney is beating me up.

548
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: I need a restraining order? He would have been laughed at.

549
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: But this case from a criminal standpoint, really hinges on

550
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: whether or not these audios and the video of the

551
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 1: elevator get in or not, because they are so prejudicial

552
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: that there is some chance that they roll, that they

553
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: can't be used against her, and that I think's going

554
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 1: to turn this case. He's tuning up and I expect

555
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: to hear the full symphony at trial. Charlie Langston delimail

556
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: dot Com. What's next? Well, now we wait for her

557
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: to go on trial. She's currently in custody waiting the

558
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: stought of her trial, and it will be very interesting

559
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 1: to see whether or not she is put on the stand,

560
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: because if her behavior that we've heard in these recordings

561
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 1: is anything to go by, she's not going to be

562
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: a solid or reliable witness. She's proven herself to be

563
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: incredibly erratic, as you said, Nancy, belligerent towards authority figures.

564
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: And I don't know whether what she's potentially going to

565
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: say on the stand will help her well. I can

566
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: tell you this much. It may get her a lot

567
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: of views on only fans, but flashing her breast at

568
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: the injury deliberations in the courtroom is not going to help.

569
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds for Christian of the sl