1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Frye. This week we spent the whole 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: week talking about Drothy Crowfoot Hodggen, something that became clear 5 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: to me very early in the research was going to 6 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: be two parts, both because I wanted to spend a 7 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: little more time talking about her peace activism, her work 8 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: basically saying we should cooperate internationally as scientists, all of 9 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: that which is mentioned in most writing about her, but 10 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: maybe not a lot of time spent on it. And 11 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: also I just loved her. She's great. I kept finding 12 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: more reasons to love her the longer I worked on 13 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: the episode, And when I was in England, I set 14 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,959 Speaker 1: myself a number of emails that just that said as 15 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: the subject line some person's name or some event or 16 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: whatever that I had just found reference to. Yeah. I 17 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: do the same when I travel. Yeah. Eventually, for some 18 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: reason I got tired of doing that and I started 19 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: just taking pictures of signs, And then after I got 20 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: back to my desk, I was just flipping through my 21 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: camera roll and seeing all the pictures of signs I 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: had taken, and you know, displays in museums and things 23 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: like that. And that was when I realized number one, 24 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff was taggeds happening on Dorothy Hodgkin Road. 25 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: And then number two that I had multiple things related 26 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: to Dorothy Hodgkin that I had taken pictures of. While 27 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: I was doing that, I had also taken pictures of, 28 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: first the exterior of the Alexander Fleming Laboratory Museum, which 29 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: is at the hospital where he was working in London. Holly, 30 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: have you been there? I have been by there, I 31 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: have not been in there, but I know where you're 32 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: talking about exactly. So this trip to England, we arrived 33 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: in London, Patrick and I spent a few days in London. 34 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: We met up with some friends in Birmingham, where Patrick 35 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: was at a convention, and then my friend and I 36 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: came back to London together, and then Patrick and her 37 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:23,399 Speaker 1: husband came back separately together, and my friend and I 38 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: decided to go have dinner at a barge in Little Venice, 39 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: which was a wine and cheese barge perfect which we 40 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: were planning to have wine and cheese and then do 41 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: a second round of food somewhere else, but we filled 42 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: up on wine and cheese, and so as we were 43 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: walking out there, we saw the exterior of the building. 44 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: There's a like a you know, a marker. It's clear 45 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: this is the building where Alexander Fleming discovered penicillina. We 46 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 1: came back by a different route that took us on 47 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,679 Speaker 1: the other side of the building, and realized that there 48 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: was a museum there that I didn't know existed, that 49 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: the Alexander Fleming Laboratory Museum. And this was maybe a 50 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: two minute walk from the hotel where Patrick and I 51 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: were staying. And so the next morning it was one 52 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: of those days where you're just all you're doing is 53 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: flying back home, right, but the flight home doesn't leave 54 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: until the afternoon, so you have a little bit of time. Yeah, 55 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 1: in the morning, that's time to do something, but not 56 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: time to do much. And I said, why don't we 57 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:30,239 Speaker 1: walk over to the Alexander Fleming Laboratory Museum because it's 58 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: two minutes away. It opens at ten, we need to 59 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: be checked out of the room by eleven. It was 60 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: the perfect amount of time to go. It is a 61 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: very small museum. It is his laboratory that has been 62 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: reconstructed to look like it looked when he was working there, 63 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: and then a room where a brief film is shown, 64 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: and then a display about like the development of penicillin 65 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: in the history of Penicillin, And it turned out to 66 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: just be the really perfect way to close out the trip, 67 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: have a brief thing to do before were heading off 68 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: to the airport. And then another thing that brought up 69 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: the name of Dorothy Crowfet Hodgkin in all of this. 70 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: One of the things there were several things that jumped 71 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: out to me. One is that we something that we've 72 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: referred to when we were talking, which is her doing 73 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: chemistry experiments in the house unsupervised. As far as I know, 74 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: I think it was in the biography of her that 75 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: I referenced, which as I've started doing lately, that was 76 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 1: the thing that I read last after the outline was 77 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: largely put together, that kind of filled in some little 78 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: gaps in what I knew about her biography. So that 79 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: is by Georgina Ferry, and it is called Dorothy Hodgkin, 80 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: a Life. It was first published in nineteen ninety eight. 81 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: A second edition came out in twenty fourteen. There might 82 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: be another edition more recently than that, but one of 83 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: the things she said was, quote, modern parents might question 84 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 1: the wisdom of letting children play with naked flames and 85 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: the attic of an old house. And I was like, yeah, 86 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 1: I couldn't even play with naked flames at the dining 87 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: room table, not in the attic. I mean, you were 88 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: a very highly supervised child. I was, yeah, this is correct. Yeah, 89 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: like my parents were a little more tired by the 90 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: time they got to me because we had I had 91 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: three older siblings. Yeah, I was the oldest, and my 92 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: mom was an anxious person. Yeah, my mom was too, 93 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: but there was a lot of finger crossing and we're tired. Yeah. 94 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: So I've played with open flames a lot as a kid. 95 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 96 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: I don't remember how old I was when I got 97 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: a chemistry set, which was one of you know, the 98 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: commercially made chemistry sets for children. But I begged for 99 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: it for uh, for Christmas, Christmas or birthday, one or 100 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: the other, and got it. And most of the experiments 101 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: that I wound up doing out of it were the 102 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: experiments that I could do unsupervised. Yeah, that did not 103 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: involve open flame, did not involve anything that was marked 104 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: as being hazardous. Oh, I had my own lighter by 105 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: the age of nine. That's funny part of that. To 106 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: be fair, It wasn't like I was just running around 107 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: setting things on fire, but I already sewed a lot 108 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: by that point, and I was taking ballet and I 109 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: would singe the ends of the ribbons on my shoes. Yeah, 110 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: so I just it was just part of my life 111 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: at that point. They got it up free. I also 112 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: really thought a lot while working on this episode about 113 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: the nature of science as an international cooperative endeavor and 114 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: how devastating it is that how much of how much 115 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: science funding has been gutted in the United States, because 116 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: that effects not just the United States, but all of 117 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 1: these other countries that were interconnected with United States research, 118 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: some of the other countries that have started increasing their 119 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: science funding to try to make up for the drop 120 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: and funding of the United States. Like it is not 121 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 1: it doesn't compare the amount of money that was being 122 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: spent in the US. Like just it was enormous and 123 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,239 Speaker 1: interconnected with so many things, interconnected with the higher education system. 124 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: A lot of university universities have basically been scientific research 125 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: centers that were being subsidized by the government, and without 126 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: that money, like what happens a lot of the research 127 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: is not being done. And then it also connects to 128 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: people being denied entry in the United States, or being 129 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: not having their visas renewed, or their whole class of visa. 130 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: Maybe that's going to go away. Like all of it, 131 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: I found. I just kept thinking about it the whole time. 132 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: I was thinking about all of her trips to make 133 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: connections with scientists and work with people and encourage them 134 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: in so many different places, including places that it was 135 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,679 Speaker 1: really frowned upon for her to be going, like going 136 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: to North Vietnam. 137 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 138 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, like you, I am very disheartened by the funding 139 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: cuts that have been made to a lot of programs. 140 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: And I know there are people for whom that seems logical. 141 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: I don't think their logic is sound, but I understand 142 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: how for somebody who is susceptible to this kind of rhetoric. 143 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: If someone says they're not producing anything, they're wasting this money, 144 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: that might sound like a good idea. But part of 145 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: it is that people don't always understand what these labs 146 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: and these research groups are doing. It's not like they 147 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: can go, look, we made of this this week, Like 148 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: some of these studies are years and years long, and 149 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: they don't even know what the outcome will be for 150 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: quite a ways into it, and it just it breaks 151 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: my heart that we're not letting those programs continue and 152 00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: to have time. I know some have gotten like you 153 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: could continue, but you have to hurry everything up, and 154 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: it's like, well that's it's not how science works. No 155 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,679 Speaker 1: speed science. No, there are processes that are just going 156 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: to take time anyway. It's very disheartening. Yeah, and the 157 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: results might be no, this doesn't work, and we still 158 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: learned something if that's the case. 159 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 2: Right, So yeah, Yeah. 160 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: Something else that I said to you sort of in 161 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:34,359 Speaker 1: a moment between actual recording was about Dorothy and Thomas's relationship. 162 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 163 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: I feel like it's an overstatement to describe them as polyamorous, 164 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: because that is not an idea that really like that 165 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: term had not been coined, right, I don't think for 166 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: all of their lives. Definitely not for most of their lives. 167 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: And I'm also not fully fully sure what her feelings 168 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: were about his other relationships. I know that conceptually she 169 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: was like, we should be free to love who we 170 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: want to love, But there's a difference between thinking that 171 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: conceptually and what your feelings are about it. Yeah, and 172 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: I'm not fully confident I know what her feelings were 173 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: about it, but it does seem like she knew he 174 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: was having these other relationships, that neither of them felt 175 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: like it was a betrayal in any way. And then 176 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: it just seems to have worked for them that they 177 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: were so rarely in the same place for a long 178 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: periods of time, but continually writing each other letters. Yeah, 179 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: I mean, their whole marriage is unconventional, even if they 180 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: did not have whatever agreement or understanding in place that 181 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: there could be other romantic partners in the mix. Just 182 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: the fact that they barely lived in the same place ever. Yeah, well, 183 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: and that was like also the plan for minute one. 184 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: It was like, we're going to get married, We're going 185 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: to go on a honeymoon, but we're immediately going to 186 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: live in two different places. 187 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 188 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: When I was in college, I might have told this 189 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: story before. When I was in college, I dated a 190 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: guy for a chunk of my time in college, and 191 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: his parents were both tenured professors at different universities in 192 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: different states. And that was just because like that was 193 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: how their careers had evolved. They had both wound up 194 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: on a tenure track in different places, and so they 195 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: saw each other on weekends, holidays, summers, and they did 196 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: a lot of driving back and forth between western North 197 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: Carolina and North Georgia. And my perception was that that 198 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: worked for them and it you know, they had basically 199 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: two households in two different places that their children went 200 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: back and forth depending on what was going on, and 201 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: it seemed to work out. 202 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 203 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: I used to work with a guy who lived It 204 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: was in my brief foray into the gaming industry when 205 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: I was wearing at Cartoon Network and he I realized 206 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: after that I didn't want to stay in gaming because 207 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: so many people like the game publishes and then you know, 208 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: not that long later, either that whole team gets sunset 209 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: or sometimes the company closes or whatever. Like it's a 210 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: very for a lot of people, not everybody, but for 211 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people. It is a very kind of 212 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: migrant career to have where you're constantly on the moon, 213 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: kind of volatile. And their thing was like, well, we 214 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: need somebody to have a base of operations, like we 215 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: need I know, one stable place while recognizing that this 216 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: other person is going to live in other places a 217 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: lot of the time, and for them. They were very devoted, 218 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: Like he was very devoted to his family, and they 219 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: made it all work. But I would be miserable. Yeah, yeah, 220 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: I don't want to live away from Brian. No, he's 221 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: a bff. It's funny to me because like it's obvious 222 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: to me that this kind of relationship is not a 223 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: relationship that would work for you and Brian in any way. Yeah, 224 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 1: but the fact that they got married so quickly after 225 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: meeting one another, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's a little parallel. 226 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: That did kind of remind me of you and Brian. Well, 227 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: their marriage date is very close to ours as well, 228 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: which made me feel a little I'm like, oh, another 229 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: person that, yeah, married right away after they met in December. 230 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 231 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,479 Speaker 1: I do feel like all of the distance and separation 232 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: was hard for their kids. Oh, it had to have 233 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: been at least some of the time. And I don't 234 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: know how her other siblings felt about what their somewhat 235 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: similar upbringing was, Like, like Dorothy talked about it making 236 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: her a more independent person and that really becoming a 237 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: part of her later life. That I don't really fully 238 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: have a sense of how the younger sisters felt about 239 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: how often their parents were separated. How often they were 240 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: separated from their parents? Yeah, I mean it's this is 241 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: another interesting parallel, right, Like, and there's not necessarily one answer, 242 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: because there are like my dad's career military, so there 243 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: were times he was gone for sometimes years at a time, 244 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: and I credit that with one of the reasons I'm 245 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: very independent. But it's also like, because that was a 246 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: time where my mom was not always coping with things 247 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: very well, and so I just kind of had to be. 248 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: So it's like, on the one hand, great, it may 249 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: be super independent, on the other not great for the 250 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: family overall, you know what I mean. You can write 251 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: both simultaneously, so it's tricky. If they didn't write it 252 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: down anywhere, Yeah, we may never know. Yeah, yeah, I 253 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: did have to giggle at one point when she was 254 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: told to rest for a month. Yeah what no, your 255 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: hands no, right right. My impression was that she got 256 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: no diagnosis at that doctor visit when she was told 257 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: to rest for a month, right, And then she got 258 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: home and found that John Bernal had made a breakthrough 259 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: while she was at the doctor, So I think she 260 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: had no diagnosis and these orders to rest, and was like, well, 261 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: I'm immediately diving into this huge project that we've made 262 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: a big breakthrough on. I mean, I just can't imagine 263 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: any scenario where I just rest for a month. Yeah, 264 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: I'd lose my mind. Like, sure, take time off of 265 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: work for a month, that sounds fun, Like I would 266 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: love no obligation life for four weeks, but I would 267 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: still be Putter's McGhee. I'd be in the summer making stuff. 268 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: I'd be you know, scooting along doing I don't know, trips, Yeah, 269 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: things I just don't like. It sounds like that rest 270 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: for a month was especially because she was going for 271 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: a complaint with pain in her hands. Pain in her hands. Yeah, 272 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: it would be a lot of do nothing for a month. 273 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: And I think, again, this is before the wealth of 274 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: entertainment options one hands these days. Oh sure, Like at 275 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: that point, would you just sit quietly in a room? 276 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: I don't, Yeah, that's torture and I have I have 277 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: absolutely no concept whatsoever of whether rest would be helpful 278 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: or harmful for somebody with rheumatoid arthritis, which they did 279 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: not know yet from my understanding, was what she had right, Yeah, 280 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: because they're like, there are conditions where doing exercise is helpful, 281 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: but there are also conditions where exercise can cause a 282 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: flare up or can exacerbate situations unless it's done really carefully. 283 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: And I did not look into which of those well 284 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: or what combination is the case with rheumatoid arthritis. But yeah, 285 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: like just as being like, oh no rest for a month, 286 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: we have some in my family. And it's not the 287 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: same for everybody. Okay, so you know what I mean. 288 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: Some people do better if they're keeping up light amount 289 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: of work and others just have inflammation that makes movement 290 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: very very painful. Yeah, and it it gets exacerbated when 291 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: they try to do more like exercisey things. Yeah. So 292 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: I think it just depends. I don't I mean, I 293 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: could be wrong, And I also am going off of 294 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: some of that being quite old information, you know, a 295 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: couple of decades old. So I'm sure modern stuff there's 296 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 1: a lot more therapies, medications, et cetera. But I don't 297 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: think it's the same for every person now so complicated 298 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: in a variety of ways. I think the closest thing 299 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: I've ever experienced is that are number one. When I 300 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: was in high school, I got mono, Yeah, and I 301 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: had about two weeks when I really could do almost 302 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: nothing physically, and then the first time I got COVID. 303 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: The first few days of having COVID, I did not 304 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: feel as sick as I have felt a couple of 305 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: different times in my life when I had like the 306 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: I felt worse, one time when I had the flu, 307 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: and one time when I had a really bad bacterial 308 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: upper respiratory infection. I felt physically worse, but I was 309 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: so tired that I couldn't even think about the decision 310 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: of what could what can I watch next? Right, very often, 311 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: so I just started watching things that were really long, 312 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,879 Speaker 1: like the entire and also that I had seen before, 313 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: because I couldn't focus on things either. If I liked, 314 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: let's watch the entire BBC Pride and Prejudice mini series 315 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: because I know how that story goes, and this goes 316 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: on for a very long time, so I won't even 317 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: have to get up and like change anything, right, and 318 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: that I continued to have a lot of like really 319 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: serious fatigue after getting better from like the respiratory symptom 320 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: part Yeah, and then also developed tachycardia. It's a party. 321 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: It's a party. It was the whole thing anyway, So yeah, 322 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: that's the closest thing I can imagine to like rest 323 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:42,679 Speaker 1: for a month, not really the same thing. Anyway. I 324 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: gotta be busy bee, I can't even just watch a thing. 325 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: I gotta be doing so. Yeah, once again, I love 326 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: Dorothy Croffet Hodgkin. Yeah, she's true, very glad that my 327 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: trip to England kept just putting her in front of her. 328 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: Whatever is happening on your weekend, I hope you're able 329 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: to take some time for yourself to rest, to rejuvenate 330 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: yourself a little bit, and that you're able to have 331 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: patience with yourself and with other people, and that other 332 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 1: people are patient with you. I know sometimes I try 333 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: other people's patience. I think everybody does. Yeah. I hope 334 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: there's as little of that as possible over your weekend. 335 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: And if you're at work, I hope work goes very 336 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: well and then everyone's nice. We will be back with 337 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: a brand new episode on Monday, and we'll have a 338 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: Saturday classic tomorrow. Stuff you Missed in History Class is 339 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 340 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 341 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.