WEBVTT - @soyouwanttotalkabout

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, I'm Jason Flam on my new series Righteous Convictions.

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<v Speaker 1>I speak with some of today's most prominent and active

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<v Speaker 1>agents of change, people who see the wrong in the

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<v Speaker 1>world and are driven to make it right. Inspired by

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<v Speaker 1>the era of misinformation. Our guest today has been anonymously

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<v Speaker 1>running an Instagram account called so you want to talk About,

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<v Speaker 1>where she tackles complex social issues with easily digestible and

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<v Speaker 1>well designed info graphics. If you're going to even attempt

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<v Speaker 1>to engage in conversation with somebody who is of the

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<v Speaker 1>fake news realm or the Q and on sphere, you

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<v Speaker 1>need to know what you're talking about. And it's challenging

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<v Speaker 1>to talk to people that you know are smarter than this,

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<v Speaker 1>But approaching things with a level head is obviously the

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<v Speaker 1>best advice, and going in with facts. Spreading the news

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<v Speaker 1>on nuanced issues has proven difficult for many, but she

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<v Speaker 1>seems to have cracked the code with nearly two and

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<v Speaker 1>a half million followers, and she will reveal her entity

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<v Speaker 1>here for the first time right now on Righteous Convictions.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to Righteous Convictions. Today's episode is unlike any

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<v Speaker 1>episode we've done before, and it features somebody who has

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<v Speaker 1>in a year done a hell of a lot to

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<v Speaker 1>really crystallize the conversation around social justice and justice reform.

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<v Speaker 1>And she's done it in a way that is really

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<v Speaker 1>unique because she's hit it anonymously. This is actually a reveal.

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<v Speaker 1>This this podcast Today's Reveals, an identity reveal and well,

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<v Speaker 1>as it says on her amazing Instagram, which is called

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<v Speaker 1>at so you want to talk about she's dissecting progressive

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<v Speaker 1>politics and social issues in graphics slide show form, and

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<v Speaker 1>so we're year to reveal her identity, which has been

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<v Speaker 1>a subject of much speculation, and also to talk to

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<v Speaker 1>her about how she has done what she's done in

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<v Speaker 1>this extremely short period of time. So, without further ado,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna let you say who you are. Okay, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not the CIA, not Conde Nast, I'm just natally, just me.

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<v Speaker 1>So here's the thing, So just natally. Since working on

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<v Speaker 1>the Bernie Sanders campaign, I guess, well, I don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to put words in your mouth that experience really shape

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<v Speaker 1>your worldview? Is that fair to say? Uh? Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean it definitely my current world view. I had actually

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<v Speaker 1>worked on Obama's re election campaign, and I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>what got me interested in politics. On like more than

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<v Speaker 1>just the baseline, like knowing what's going on, like really

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<v Speaker 1>diving into it. But Bernie's campaign is what fired me up,

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<v Speaker 1>I think, and then you started in it. About a

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<v Speaker 1>period of about a year. You created an Instagram page

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<v Speaker 1>that has reached its two point four million very engaged

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<v Speaker 1>followers now. And that is remarkable because there's no pictures, right,

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<v Speaker 1>there's no sensational videos, there's no cute animals. What there

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<v Speaker 1>is is just graphics and information. And so to give

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<v Speaker 1>you an idea, and I encourage everyone listening to go

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<v Speaker 1>now to so you want to talk about, but even

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<v Speaker 1>the most recent ones, the myth busting, the fifteen dollar

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<v Speaker 1>minimum wage, women who are getting ship done, wrongful convictions,

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<v Speaker 1>and a subject that's near and dear to my heart,

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<v Speaker 1>the Equality Act. But I mean, you really cracked the code. Jests.

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<v Speaker 1>You've created a format that makes processing complex issues not

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<v Speaker 1>only sort of seamless, but also kind of enjoyable. So, so,

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<v Speaker 1>what what gave you the inspiration to do this and

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<v Speaker 1>what's your secret? Well, the inspiration came from phone banking

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<v Speaker 1>with Bernie's campaign during the primaries, and I was speaking

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<v Speaker 1>to a lot of people predominantly in Florida. That was

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<v Speaker 1>kind of the straw that broke the camel's back, people

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<v Speaker 1>in Florida conflating him with communism and saying he's a communist.

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<v Speaker 1>And I have older family members in Florida who were

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<v Speaker 1>buying into that, and I kind of felt like, how

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<v Speaker 1>can I reach these people? Well they read this, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, so I just the first graphic I made

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<v Speaker 1>was so you want to talk about Bernie Sanders, and

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<v Speaker 1>it went from that. I think my second one was

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<v Speaker 1>so you want to talk about Medicare for all? And

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<v Speaker 1>it evolved now into these over five posts on the

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<v Speaker 1>page almost now. That is what started it, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not really sure what the interests people had. I think

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<v Speaker 1>just presenting something that's simplified so that you're not having

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<v Speaker 1>a strain yourself to understand. Sometimes it's a little heavier,

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<v Speaker 1>like when I'm talking about the death penalty maybe, but

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<v Speaker 1>in general I do try to present it so that

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<v Speaker 1>anybody could understand. So, now that I know your name,

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<v Speaker 1>which I'm excited to know your name and and to

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<v Speaker 1>know you, what about your background do you think led

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<v Speaker 1>you to become this person that you are? M hm, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I like, you know, probably what of the world. I

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<v Speaker 1>have divorced parents who could not be more opposite of

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<v Speaker 1>each other, and I spent a significant amount of time

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<v Speaker 1>living with my father, who is maybe one of the

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<v Speaker 1>most hateful, racist, ignorant people I've ever met in my life,

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<v Speaker 1>and my mom, who is arguably maybe even more liberal

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<v Speaker 1>than I am, And seeing the contrast between those two

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<v Speaker 1>things was almost kind of like, which, which way am

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<v Speaker 1>I going to go with this? And I I obviously

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<v Speaker 1>resonate way more with my mom and just my heart

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<v Speaker 1>and my soul, I think, And so my whole life

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<v Speaker 1>has been based around really rejecting everything that I grew

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<v Speaker 1>up hearing and everything that my father stood for, and

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<v Speaker 1>wanting to take action so that less people are like that,

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<v Speaker 1>and so that people are not impacted by other people

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<v Speaker 1>who are like that. That drives me on a daily basis.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the polarization that we're living in now. I've been

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<v Speaker 1>living that my whole life, So I think maybe that

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<v Speaker 1>gives me, I don't know, the tools to be running

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<v Speaker 1>this page by myself, it's so wonderful to see that

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<v Speaker 1>not only that you're doing this, but that people are

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<v Speaker 1>responding the way they are. It feels to me from

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<v Speaker 1>reading the comments and things that you're moving the needle

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<v Speaker 1>on some of these issues. I didn't make this page

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<v Speaker 1>expecting more than maybe the people that I knew from

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<v Speaker 1>Bernie's campaign and that kind of sphere. I didn't think

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<v Speaker 1>it was going to break past that at all. Obviously

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<v Speaker 1>it has, and it's I do this page myself. I

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<v Speaker 1>have some great collaborators that I work with. One of

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<v Speaker 1>my collaborators who does art for my post frequently, Alex.

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<v Speaker 1>He kind of challenged me to add action items to

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<v Speaker 1>all of the post and I think that that has

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<v Speaker 1>proven to be effective. And I think that they're reading

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<v Speaker 1>something that's upsetting and horrifying, like Julius Jones's case, They're

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<v Speaker 1>reading that and they want to do something, and then

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<v Speaker 1>at the end M giving them the tools to do

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<v Speaker 1>something like make these phone calls, sign this petition, spread

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<v Speaker 1>the word, and so I think when they're more informed,

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<v Speaker 1>they're more willing to do something. That's why I made

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<v Speaker 1>the pages, because I was becoming more informed and I

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<v Speaker 1>felt like doing something about it, and I made the page.

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<v Speaker 1>So the ripple effect of that has been rewarding, nerve wracking,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's interesting. It's interesting to see this happen on

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<v Speaker 1>social media. Are there certain things that we act more

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<v Speaker 1>strongly than others? Are there certain topics and are there

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<v Speaker 1>certain posts that have just gone way beyond any of

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<v Speaker 1>the other ones. The post that has the most engagement

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<v Speaker 1>ever is the post that I have about abolishing the

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<v Speaker 1>death penalty. And I had been in contact with Brandon

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<v Speaker 1>Bernard's people because that was a case that was coming up.

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<v Speaker 1>Um he was on death row, and so I made

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<v Speaker 1>a post about Brandon Bernard and a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>got really really invested in that case because it was

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<v Speaker 1>just so terrible. We crashed the DJ phone lines two times.

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<v Speaker 1>The White House knew about the post, and they were

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<v Speaker 1>very upset that I was pushing people to call. But

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<v Speaker 1>people were very upset and that obviously played out in

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<v Speaker 1>such a horrific way. And I posted about abolishing the

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<v Speaker 1>death penalty and really kind of went into the death

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<v Speaker 1>penalty and the history of it and how it's not humane,

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<v Speaker 1>it's so error prone. That's my most popular post on

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<v Speaker 1>the page. I posted that after they executed Brandon Bernard

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<v Speaker 1>because I feel like people started to give a ship

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<v Speaker 1>because there was a person that they could put to

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<v Speaker 1>this now and now all of the cases that I've

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<v Speaker 1>covered and tried to amplify on the page. Since have

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<v Speaker 1>people have been very engaged with those posts. There's been

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<v Speaker 1>some positive developments recently in some of the cases that

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<v Speaker 1>we are both involved in. You want to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>Julius Jones and what's happening there, Jess. I mean, Julius

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<v Speaker 1>Jones is sitting on death row, and there's plenty of

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<v Speaker 1>people sitting on death row in Oklahoma that should not be.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, nobody should be. But Julius Jones is definitely

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<v Speaker 1>innocent and there's a lot of compelling evidence to back

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<v Speaker 1>that up. He has been fighting for two decades almost

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<v Speaker 1>His team has been fighting for petitions. They have millions

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<v Speaker 1>of signatures on their changed out work petition. People say

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<v Speaker 1>signing petitions is useless, and it's really not, and Julius

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<v Speaker 1>Jones his team kind of proved that when they presented

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<v Speaker 1>this what are they called legal boxes of signatures showing

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<v Speaker 1>that there's this massive outcry from the public backing his

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<v Speaker 1>innocence and wanting them to relok at this case, wanting

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<v Speaker 1>them to exonerate him. So the update with that case

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<v Speaker 1>specifically is that they voted three to one. Just now

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<v Speaker 1>to take up his case in the parole board, and

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<v Speaker 1>I believe that's going to be later this year that

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<v Speaker 1>they will take that on. So what's next, Jazz, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>how does it work inside of your brain and soul?

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<v Speaker 1>In terms of they're all these issues right? You could

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<v Speaker 1>open up the newspaper any day of the week. How

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<v Speaker 1>does the next subject land in your feed? I have

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<v Speaker 1>a form in my bio on the page where people

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<v Speaker 1>can submit for collaboration posts. I love doing collaboration posts,

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<v Speaker 1>especially if it's collaborating with like the legal team or

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<v Speaker 1>the families of these people that need this attention. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't see a point in having this platform if I

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<v Speaker 1>can't do something good with it, but not have a

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<v Speaker 1>list of probably four things I've jotted down on a

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<v Speaker 1>note in phone of topics that I want to cover.

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<v Speaker 1>Research and design takes like eight hours a post, so

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<v Speaker 1>I generally get one post on the day because I'm

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<v Speaker 1>doing this and I have a full time job. What

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<v Speaker 1>is your full time job? I'm curious. I mean this

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<v Speaker 1>might be shocking to you, but I do social media marketing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, so, Jess, why did you do this page anonymously?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, are you banksy or something? Maybe that's it.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe your alter ego is banksy. I don't know. Like

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<v Speaker 1>as a matter of fact, it just started that way

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<v Speaker 1>when I was initially posting, and I was one of

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<v Speaker 1>very few people for quite a bit of time engage

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<v Speaker 1>it with the posts. This wasn't two and a half

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<v Speaker 1>million followers the whole time. It grew very slowly, and

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<v Speaker 1>then it really popped off when I was live streaming

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<v Speaker 1>from protest Us during the summer. I didn't see a

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<v Speaker 1>point of making it about me, or it felt irrelevant

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<v Speaker 1>to have anything about me on here, because that's not

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to be an influencer. You know, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not trying to sell hand lotion. So it went from

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<v Speaker 1>being where I didn't feel like it was relevant to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about myself to where I actively didn't want to

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<v Speaker 1>be talking about me or revealing who I was because

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<v Speaker 1>I was getting threats from people, especially during the election,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of very graphic, very angry messages from people

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<v Speaker 1>who were very upset that I was not holding back

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<v Speaker 1>about how I felt about Donald Trump. Yeah, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>it makes me sad, but it doesn't surprise me. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, families we know are being torn apart by

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<v Speaker 1>these very important issues of our day, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>in so many cases this conversation evolves into conspiracy theories

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<v Speaker 1>on one side and there's news on the other side.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you have any advice for people who want to

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<v Speaker 1>try to bridge that gap. If you're going to even

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<v Speaker 1>attempt to engage in conversation with somebody who is of

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<v Speaker 1>the fake news realm or the Q and on sphere,

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<v Speaker 1>you need to know what you're talking about. And I

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<v Speaker 1>have found the equipping myself with facts that cannot be disputed,

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<v Speaker 1>perhaps having those readily available on my phone. It's just

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<v Speaker 1>the initial knee jerk reaction is to just you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what is wrong with you? Kind of almost like you're

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<v Speaker 1>lashing out. But I think everybody, at the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the day believes what they want to believe and if

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<v Speaker 1>it makes them feel better about their lives to buy

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<v Speaker 1>into this bullshit that's been peddled, you know, these alternative

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<v Speaker 1>facts that were made into reality for so many people.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it's frustrating to deal with that, and I have

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<v Speaker 1>dealt with that obviously on the page, but I've also

0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.280
<v Speaker 1>dealt with that in my personal life, and it's challenging

0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.800
<v Speaker 1>to talk to people that you know are smarter than this.

0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.400
<v Speaker 1>So my advice, I guess, would just be to take

0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.360
<v Speaker 1>a step back and realize, like these people have been

0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.760
<v Speaker 1>conned into believing what they bel You've given it's of

0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:05.280
<v Speaker 1>the fake news roman, not the hateful racism role. But

0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:09.440
<v Speaker 1>approaching things with a level head is obviously the best advice,

0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.480
<v Speaker 1>and going in with facts and you can find those

0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.920
<v Speaker 1>facts at so you want to talk about on Instagram.

0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.679
<v Speaker 1>So I have a question. I ask almost all our

0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:22.240
<v Speaker 1>guests if you had a magic wand and could fix

0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.160
<v Speaker 1>one thing, what would it be. I would fix this

0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:30.240
<v Speaker 1>desire that people have to be willfully ignorant. I think

0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:34.120
<v Speaker 1>that's one of the biggest problems around the world. But

0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:38.360
<v Speaker 1>I think it's definitely an American problem that people actively

0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.720
<v Speaker 1>choose to be ignorant about things. And I think if

0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:46.400
<v Speaker 1>people were choosing rather to be more informed and to

0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.680
<v Speaker 1>learn and be open minded and to be more accepting

0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:52.600
<v Speaker 1>with all of what they've learned, I think we would

0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.040
<v Speaker 1>be in a much better place. So, just rumor has

0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:59.640
<v Speaker 1>it that you have a book coming out, I have

0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:05.000
<v Speaker 1>put together a book that is tackling all of these

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.000
<v Speaker 1>subjects that people struggle to talk about. I mean, I

0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:12.680
<v Speaker 1>have the war on drugs, prison, labor, abortions, all of

0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.160
<v Speaker 1>these controversial topics that people don't really know how to

0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.400
<v Speaker 1>have conversations with family or friends or strangers about. And

0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm very excited about it that's coming out in October

0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.400
<v Speaker 1>of this year. Did we get the name of it? Oh? Yeah,

0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.200
<v Speaker 1>it's called so let's talk about it. Like the page,

0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.160
<v Speaker 1>it's a toolkit for un learning and it will be

0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.600
<v Speaker 1>available wherever books are sold. On that note, you know,

0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.960
<v Speaker 1>we usually like to wrap up the show by first

0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:43.360
<v Speaker 1>of all, thanking you, and with that, I would like

0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:48.080
<v Speaker 1>to just turn my microphone off and leave yours on

0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:52.720
<v Speaker 1>for any closing thoughts that you want to share about anything. Okay,

0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:58.640
<v Speaker 1>I guess to address my audience, I am deeply thankful

0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:05.040
<v Speaker 1>that everybody is so inspired to learn that you followed

0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:09.760
<v Speaker 1>the page, that you have maybe gain something from something

0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.120
<v Speaker 1>you've learned on the page. Maybe you've taken an action

0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:16.080
<v Speaker 1>from the page. Maybe you felt for the first time

0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 1>ever like you can make a phone call and yell

0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:22.480
<v Speaker 1>at a legislator, or you know, I had so many

0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:26.160
<v Speaker 1>people who registered to vote for the first time because

0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:28.480
<v Speaker 1>they felt empowered and they felt like they wanted to

0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.120
<v Speaker 1>make a difference during the election, and I think that

0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.920
<v Speaker 1>keeps me wanting to post, and I really hope that

0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:40.320
<v Speaker 1>what I'm posting keeps everybody wanting to make a change

0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.760
<v Speaker 1>or feeling inspired to convince others to make a change.

0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:47.640
<v Speaker 1>And I think the ripple effect of whatever you read

0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:51.360
<v Speaker 1>on the page, it can make a difference. And anybody

0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.280
<v Speaker 1>who tries to say it can't be activism if it's

0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.440
<v Speaker 1>on social media, don't listen to that, because what we

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.400
<v Speaker 1>have done on this page, and I say we because

0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.440
<v Speaker 1>everybody who has followed the page has played a part

0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:07.480
<v Speaker 1>in getting it to where it is, and we have

0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:09.960
<v Speaker 1>made a difference in the lives of so many people.

0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.840
<v Speaker 1>And I thank everybody for participating in that with me.

0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.359
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for listening to Righteous Convictions. I'd like to

0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:29.240
<v Speaker 1>thank our production team, Connor Hall, Jeff Clyburne, and Kevin Wardis.

0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.440
<v Speaker 1>The music in this production was supplied by three time

0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:36.760
<v Speaker 1>OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Follow us on Instagram at

0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:41.480
<v Speaker 1>Wrongful Conviction, on Twitter at Wrong Conviction, and on Facebook

0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:45.600
<v Speaker 1>at Wrongful Conviction Podcast. Righteous Convictions is a production of

0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:48.600
<v Speaker 1>Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number

0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:59.719
<v Speaker 1>one