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Speaker 1: They may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom.

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Speaker 1: That line from Braveheart was uttered by William Wallace, but

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Speaker 1: it was created by Randall Wallace, the screenwriter and director.

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Speaker 1: As the landmark film turns thirty, Randy joins me to

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Speaker 1: reveal the secrets of its origins and the life lessons

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Speaker 1: he collected along the way. All on this edition of

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Speaker 1: the Arroyo Grande Show. Come on, I'm Raymond Arroyo. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Arroyo Grande. Go subscribe to the show. Now, go ahead,

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Speaker 1: do it. Turn the notifications on. We've got some great

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Speaker 1: interviews coming up in commentary, and we'd so appreciate a

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Speaker 1: like just so others can enjoy the show too. Now

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Speaker 1: to our deep dive. This year marks the thirtieth anniversary

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Speaker 1: of Braveheart, the beloved Academy Award winning film. It was

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Speaker 1: Randy Wallace who first discovered the story and wrote the screenplay.

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Speaker 1: He would go on to write and direct, Did The

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Speaker 1: Man in the Iron Mask Secretariat, We Were Soldiers, and

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Speaker 1: many more. I talked with him about how he came

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Speaker 1: to write Braveheart at one of the darkest points in

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Speaker 1: his life, and how we can all live the Brave

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Speaker 1: Heart Life Watch. I'm going to start with the question

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Speaker 1: that I'm sure is on everybody's mind, and it was

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Speaker 1: on my mind. Where did Brave Heart originate? I know

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Speaker 1: you were on a trip to Scotland and you see

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Speaker 1: this statue of William Wallace and you know and think what.

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Speaker 2: I was looking for my heritage and this had a

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Speaker 2: particular value. There was a real drive in this quest

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Speaker 2: because we were expecting our first son, and his mother

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Speaker 2: knew all of her ancestry because she has ancestors who

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Speaker 2: were Latter day Saints, so they had studied ancestry back

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Speaker 2: and forth and they knew it back hundreds and hundreds

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Speaker 2: of years, and I knew nothing about mine. So part

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Speaker 2: of it was trying to connect with a kind of history.

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Speaker 2: I mean, all of us go back to Adam and Eve, right,

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Speaker 2: But the sense that I wanted to know to give

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Speaker 2: him a sense of his heritage, that was a big

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Speaker 2: part of it. But it wasn't just what is your

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Speaker 2: physical genetic heritage? What is your spiritual emotional heritage. That's

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Speaker 2: what I was looking for, and that's the moment that

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Speaker 2: I came across William Wallace.

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Speaker 3: And we don't know a lot about William Wallace. We

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Speaker 3: know nothing of what he said, right, nothing nothing.

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Speaker 2: In fact, it's really a funny thing on the Air

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Speaker 2: Force Academy. On the wall of the Air Force Academy

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Speaker 2: is a plaque that says, they may take our lives,

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Speaker 2: but they'll never take our freedom. And under it William

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Speaker 2: Wallace and William Wallas didn't say that.

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Speaker 1: Is that kind of that has to kind of you

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Speaker 1: have to smile when you see that, because everything we

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Speaker 1: know of William Wallace really comes through your pen.

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Speaker 2: Well, I tell you there is a thing about it too,

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Speaker 2: and that I feel that his story spoke to me,

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Speaker 2: but it wasn't mine. I mean, as I wrote Braveheart,

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Speaker 2: I had no outline, I had no I had no

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Speaker 2: historical records to draw from. I just sat down and wrote,

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Speaker 2: and the story told itself to me.

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Speaker 3: Robert the Bruce, all of that was fabricate.

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Speaker 2: So I sat down and I wrote the story without

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Speaker 2: any historical records to refer to. After I was in

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Speaker 2: about draft five or six, I discovered a book that

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Speaker 2: is in rhyming Scottish verse and purports to be an

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Speaker 2: epic poem about William Wallace. It was told by a

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Speaker 2: man named Blind Harry, who was not blind and probably

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Speaker 2: not named Harry, probably, and he traveled the Scottish Highlands,

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Speaker 2: and he told this story in rhyming couplets, which enabled

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Speaker 2: him to remember this epic, epic poem. And I was already,

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Speaker 2: you know, five or six drafts into Braveheart when I

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Speaker 2: read that book, and there were elements in that book

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Speaker 2: that I had written in my screenplay.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute, yes, which were they?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember William Wallace encounters Robert the Bruce on

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Speaker 2: the battlefield and discovers that the man that he has

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Speaker 2: put the most trust in has betrayed him. Yes, absolutely, And.

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Speaker 3: You had no contact with him in those five drafts.

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Speaker 2: Robert William Wallace meets the princess, who historically was was

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Speaker 2: far younger, but actually in the and I had that

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Speaker 2: he meets the princess in my story. In the actual

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Speaker 2: Blind Harry story, he meets the wife of Edward Longshanks,

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Speaker 2: who was in fact the appropriate age. But I kept

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Speaker 2: my version of the story because I had two hours

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Speaker 2: in which to tell the story. So in a sense,

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Speaker 2: all of history is an impressionistic work. But I felt

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Speaker 2: that what I was telling was the truth. I always

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Speaker 2: say don't let the facts get in the way of

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Speaker 2: the truth.

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Speaker 3: Of a good story.

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Speaker 2: A good story.

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Speaker 1: Now, you say, if I'm remembering this right, that you

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Speaker 1: had a brave heart.

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Speaker 3: Moment when you were working on the script.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And what that is, in your fashioning is a

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Speaker 1: desperate moment, a kind of rock bottom yest check moment. Yes,

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Speaker 1: tell me about that moment, and why do you describe

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Speaker 1: it that way?

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Speaker 2: So, when I was about eleven, my father, who was

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Speaker 2: the strongest and bravest man I ever knew, had a

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Speaker 2: nervous breakdown. His father was dead before he was born.

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Speaker 2: My father's father died of typhoid fever eight and a

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Speaker 2: half months before my father was born. So I'm not

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Speaker 2: even sure that my grandmother, In fact, I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 2: she did not know that she was pregnant when her

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Speaker 2: husband died, so she was a widow before she was

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Speaker 2: a mother. And my father grew up without a father.

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Speaker 2: And his grandfather was a wonderful man and raised him,

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Speaker 2: but he grew up without a dad, which was another

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Speaker 2: reason that I had lost the Wallace chain in your

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Speaker 2: heritage did heritage? When my father was in his thirties,

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Speaker 2: the company that he worked for, he had worked full

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Speaker 2: time since he was fourteen.

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Speaker 3: A salesman.

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Speaker 2: A salesman, and the bunch of guys bought the company

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Speaker 2: that he worked for, which was the Curtis Candy Company.

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Speaker 2: They made baby roots and butterfingers, and they decided they

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Speaker 2: were going to flip the company and they would increase

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Speaker 2: their profits by firing all the old guys who were

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Speaker 2: making higher salaries. And my father was one of the

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Speaker 2: old guys. He was thirty eight, the only time he

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Speaker 2: had ever lost a job, and it just crushed it.

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Speaker 2: He really had a struggle with that and he had

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Speaker 2: a nervous breakdown. Now he put his life back together.

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Speaker 2: The last sale he made for the Curtis Candy Company

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Speaker 2: was for ninety thousand dollars. Now, that was in nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty one. Ninety thousand dollars was close to a million

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Speaker 2: dollars now. The next sale he made was for ninety cents.

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Speaker 2: But he worked his way back into enormous success, and

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Speaker 2: I got to see that, but also had the experience

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Speaker 2: of my father falling apart and the terror. My sister

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Speaker 2: and I were farmed out to relatives at that point.

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Speaker 2: Our mother was very courageous and so it was our

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Speaker 2: father that it was real upheaval. We lived in a

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Speaker 2: house with no indoor plumbing for a while, and so

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Speaker 2: cut to my career has begun. I was making a

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Speaker 2: lot of money in television. My career kept expanding, expanding,

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Speaker 2: and then there was a huge writers strike and I

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Speaker 2: had a falling out with my mentor both at the

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Speaker 2: same time. When the strike was over, my job was gone.

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Speaker 2: The company that I worked for it was beginning to evaporate.

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Speaker 2: I'd had a long term contract, but the Writer's Guild

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Speaker 2: had been going on strike allowed companies to suspend the contracts.

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Speaker 2: I'd spent all my savings on buying a new home

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Speaker 2: for my and our children to grow up in, and

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Speaker 2: suddenly here's a strike, and I'm out of money, I'm

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Speaker 2: out of prospects. I can't even get a job. I

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Speaker 2: can't even get an opportunity to pitch a story. All

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Speaker 2: the doors were shut and I was all knighted up,

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Speaker 2: and I thought I was about to put my sons

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Speaker 2: through the same horror that I had gone through. I

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Speaker 2: thought I was going to come apart, and the only

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Speaker 2: place I could go was on my knees. And I

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Speaker 2: said a prayer, and the prayer was Maybe the best

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Speaker 2: thing for my sons is not that they grow up

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Speaker 2: in a house with a bunch of bedrooms and a

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Speaker 2: tennis court and swimming pool and German cars in the driveway.

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Speaker 2: Maybe the best thing for them is they live in

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Speaker 2: a little house away my sister and I did, and

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Speaker 2: they have an outhouse, they have no end of plumbing.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they'll be better men. And if that's what God

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Speaker 2: wants from my sons, then please bring it on and

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Speaker 2: help me bear it. But if I go down in

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Speaker 2: this fight, helped me go down, not on my knees

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Speaker 2: to Hollywood, but standing up, fighting for what I believe,

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Speaker 2: with my flag flying, writing what I wanted my sons

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Speaker 2: to see, and that led directly to Braveheart.

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Speaker 3: How long did it take you to write?

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Speaker 2: And actually very quick, From when I first heard the

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Speaker 2: story to when I sat down to write, it was

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Speaker 2: ten years because I didn't feel I mean, when I

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Speaker 2: saw this statue of William Wallace standing next to a

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Speaker 2: statue of Robert the Bruce, and as you say, I

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Speaker 2: had not heard of William Wallace. So I asked a

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Speaker 2: member of the Black Watch, Scottish guards there at the

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Speaker 2: Edinburgh Castle who he was, and the guard said, he's

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Speaker 2: our greatest hero. And I'm thinking, now, how can he

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Speaker 2: be the greatest hero of Scotland? And I share his name,

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Speaker 2: and I love history, and I've never heard of him.

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Speaker 2: How could that be? And so I said, well, he

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Speaker 2: and Robert the Bruce. I knew of Robert the Bruce

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Speaker 2: Scotland's greatest king, so they must have been allies fighting

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Speaker 2: against the English. And this guard said, well, no one

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Speaker 2: will ever know for sure, which, of course, is the

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Speaker 2: magic words.

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Speaker 3: For a that's right, open the door.

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Speaker 2: But our legends say that Robert the Bruce may have

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Speaker 2: been among those who betrayed William Wallace into the hands

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Speaker 2: of the English to clear the way for himself to

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Speaker 2: become the king. And that was when the lightning bolt

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Speaker 2: struck me. It's like, I thought, this may be the

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Speaker 2: greatest story that I've ever heard, because it's like being

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Speaker 2: told Saint Peter and Judas were the same person. What

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Speaker 2: if there was something so noble in the life and

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Speaker 2: death of William Wallace that it transformed Robert the Bruce

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Speaker 2: from a man who would betray his country's greatest hero

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Speaker 2: to becoming his country's greatest king. And that was okay,

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Speaker 2: This is huge, but I'm not ready to do it yet.

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Speaker 2: I've got a baby coming. I need to find a

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Speaker 2: way to feed him, a reliable way. I need to

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Speaker 2: grow as a writer so that I'm capable of handling

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Speaker 2: this kind of inspiration. But I probably wouldn't have sat

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Speaker 2: down to do it had not been at a point of.

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Speaker 1: If you had all that other work, he wouldn't have done.

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Speaker 1: There's something to be said about burning the boats.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, you know.

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Speaker 3: Where that's your one path. This is the only option,

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Speaker 3: that's right.

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Speaker 2: Everything was stripped away. I had no.

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Speaker 3: Choice, you know.

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Speaker 1: Mel recently told me the story on this show about

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Speaker 1: finding the script. He had read the script, he had

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Speaker 1: read Rave Heart, but it was at a different studio.

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Speaker 1: I guess Alan Ladd had this, yes, or that studio did,

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Speaker 1: and Mel was kept repeating it in his head. He

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Speaker 1: told me he kept seeing the scenes and what was happening.

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Speaker 1: And later he was looking for I guess a project

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Speaker 1: and he asked them to pull it out of storage,

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Speaker 1: which they did, and he read it. It was very

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Speaker 1: different from what he was imagining in his head. But

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Speaker 1: he asked Alan Ladd if he could have it, did

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Speaker 1: you is that the story is that how you remember.

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Speaker 2: It well, so everyone has their you know, the experience

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Speaker 2: of where they were when it was happening. I wrote

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Speaker 2: it with no producers involved at all, only with Rebecca Pollack,

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Speaker 2: who worked for Alan Ladd. She's the daughter of Sydney

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Speaker 2: Pollack and she inherited her father's genius. I mean, Sydney

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Speaker 2: Pollack was one of the great filmmakers of all time.

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Speaker 2: And Becky really has his instincts. And I pitched the

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Speaker 2: story to her in about ten minutes and she went,

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Speaker 2: my god, go write that. And I wrote it. And

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Speaker 2: then she said, Okay, we've never seen this happen before.

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Speaker 2: We xerox the script and send it to all the

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Speaker 2: department heads to read, and their assistants read it first.

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Speaker 2: And they're all sitting out in the area where all

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Speaker 2: the assistants sit and they're all weeping. And I've never

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Speaker 2: seen this happen. So who can play William Wallace? And

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Speaker 2: I said, there's only one person. There's only one actor

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Speaker 2: in the world that I think can do it, and

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Speaker 2: that's mel Gibson. So we got to go after him.

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Speaker 2: If he says no, I don't know what we do.

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Speaker 2: We have to go after him and we did have

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Speaker 2: the experience where we sent it and didn't get didn't here,

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Speaker 2: didn't here, didn't hear. And then I got a phone

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Speaker 2: call from my agent saying are you sitting down? I said, no,

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Speaker 2: well sit down, Well what is it? And he goes, well,

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Speaker 2: Mel Gibson wants to meet you for breakfast. And we

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Speaker 2: met at the Four Seasons and we're sitting there and

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Speaker 2: I had said a prayer that I would not kiss

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Speaker 2: his butt, you know, I You know, Raymond, you know

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Speaker 2: how when people are around powerful people, that there's a

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Speaker 2: valance of that where people to try to say whatever

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Speaker 2: they think that person wants to hear. And that, to

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Speaker 2: me is the way to help, like you have to

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Speaker 2: My only value to myself, to my family, to Mail,

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Speaker 2: to God was telling the truth. So we sat down

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Speaker 2: and everybody was really nervous. And Mail broke the ice

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Speaker 2: in that meeting. He looked across the table and he said,

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Speaker 2: and we're sitting across just like you and me. And

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Speaker 2: he said, so William Wallace, Randall Wallace or you guys

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Speaker 2: like relatives or what. And that was a great icebreaker,

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Speaker 2: you know, because I got to say, well, I can't

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Speaker 2: prove I am, but nobody can prove it. I'm not,

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Speaker 2: you know so. But in five minutes, I was like

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Speaker 2: a tent revivalist, and I was leaning across the table

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Speaker 2: and I was beating on the table with my fists,

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Speaker 2: and I said, here's the way it is. Every movie

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Speaker 2: has a message, has its underlying message, and the underlying

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Speaker 2: message of most movies the subtext is if you have

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Speaker 2: the guy with the bluest eyes and the cutest dimples

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Speaker 2: and the biggest biceps and the most charming smile, he's

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Speaker 2: the one that gets the girl. This movie says, if

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Speaker 2: you're faithful to your heart, even if they cut it

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Speaker 2: out of your chest, you prevail. Now that's the movie

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Speaker 2: I want my sons to see. That's the movie I

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Speaker 2: want the world to see. You want to make that movie.

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Speaker 2: You need to say yes. You don't want to make

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Speaker 2: that movie, you need to say no. And he said

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Speaker 2: and he and nobody said anything. Everybody at the table

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Speaker 2: went except Mel. And he leaned forward and I think

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Speaker 2: this guy and I are gon we're going to go.

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Speaker 2: And so nobody else says any. They won't look at me.

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Speaker 2: Nobody says anything. And Mel is massively aware of his

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Speaker 2: surroundings without looking at them. It's kind of a spooky thing.

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Speaker 2: But he didn't look at me. Nobody did we go out,

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Speaker 2: We get our cars. You know they're all in expensive cars.

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Speaker 3: Well that was it.

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Speaker 2: He didn't agree to him at the table. Noh, and

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Speaker 2: we go. We were riding away. Mysel phone rings. It's

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Speaker 2: my agent and he goes, what the heck did you say?

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Speaker 2: And I think he's angry, and I go, well, somebody

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Speaker 2: had to talk. Nobody's talking. I just like and he said, no, no,

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Speaker 2: that Alan Ladd just called and he said, I want

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Speaker 2: to double Randy Wallace's deal. Instead of one more script

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Speaker 2: from him, I want two more and I want him

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Speaker 2: to direct the next thing he writes for us. And

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Speaker 2: he said, I don't know what you said, but whatever

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Speaker 2: it was, you know, keep doing it. Well Neil doesn't

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Speaker 2: say yes. He doesn't say yes, and I don't know

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Speaker 2: what the hang up is. So I went to Scotland

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Speaker 2: on my own or actually with my wife on my

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Speaker 2: own dime, and I found the Battley enactors who were

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Speaker 2: who were in Highlander, and they were called the Clan Wallace.

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Speaker 2: A friend of mine who worked on Highlander said, there

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Speaker 2: these crazy Scotts. He said, we had three broken noses

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Speaker 2: after he yelled, cut those guys. So went over there,

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Speaker 2: took pictures of him, took a slide show, took video

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Speaker 2: of them fighting, which was easy to find because they fought.

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Speaker 3: All the time.

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Speaker 2: And I came back and showed him to Alan Ladd.

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Speaker 2: He said, you got to show this to Meil and

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Speaker 2: we sat down and I showed him to Mail and

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Speaker 2: he looked at it all silently like it was his

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Speaker 2: eyes like this, and then he looked up at me

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Speaker 2: and said, I want to direct this. What would you

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Speaker 2: think of that? And that was what his I believe

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Speaker 2: that was his. The thing that he took a long

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Speaker 2: time to come to is that he knew in his

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Speaker 2: heart that he could just knock this ball like this

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Speaker 2: was him. But it was also huge. He had done

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Speaker 2: Man Without a Face, which was an animal film in

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Speaker 2: pense movie. This was this. So when he said that,

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Speaker 2: I went, I will support that one, and we were

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Speaker 2: off to the races and.

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Speaker 3: The rest was history.

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Speaker 1: Amazing when you wrote it, I mean, look, for so

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Speaker 1: many you talked about the Air Force Academy, They've got

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Speaker 1: the quote on the wall. For so many men, in particular,

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Speaker 1: it embodies a masculine ideal and the sacrificial Savior.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm sure you were aware of those themes as

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Speaker 3: you wrote this.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's funny. People have said to me, you know,

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Speaker 2: you must have done a lot of research, and I say, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I did. I read the New Testament. And the interesting

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Speaker 2: thing about it, Raymond, is that Mel, among all the

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Speaker 2: actors who we could have gone to, got that instantly.

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Speaker 2: And I mean, oh, this is a garden of casemone, Oh, this.

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Speaker 3: Is hell, saw it all.

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Speaker 2: And so that was a that was a bond that

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Speaker 2: that we found that we had together and persists to

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Speaker 2: this day. But the weird thing is God's plan is

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Speaker 2: better than your plan. So when something surprises you, you

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Speaker 2: know you don't see it coming. I mean, one of

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Speaker 2: the first things Mel said to me in our first

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Speaker 2: meeting was tell me all the things you wrote and

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Speaker 2: took out. Now, by my way of thinking, that's genius. No, no,

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Speaker 2: I've never heard anybody else say that to a writer.

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Speaker 2: But it was an interesting creative approach. It was a

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Speaker 2: it's almost like a uniquely brave and wild approach to filmmaking,

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Speaker 2: which which I think characterizes him. M hm.

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Speaker 1: No, Well he told me, he said I was reading it,

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Speaker 1: he said, I read it. I said, oh no, not no,

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Speaker 1: And he said, I couldn't get it out of my head.

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Speaker 1: He said, but and I was in visionary. I could

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Speaker 1: see the scenes. Yeah, and he said, and.

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Speaker 3: Then the leader I went.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I think he wanted to direct it,

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Speaker 1: because he saw things. Yeah, he saw things that you

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Speaker 1: had suggested. He saw things he wanted to deepen. He

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Speaker 1: saw things that and that's probably why he asked the question.

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Speaker 1: He was looking for your discards to see what he

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Speaker 1: could reanimate.

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Speaker 3: Probably, yeah, give me a sense of I mean, looking

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Speaker 3: back now, it's easy to see, but the path had

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Speaker 3: to be difficult. I mean, when you're broke, when you

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Speaker 3: when you when you're you don't know where your next

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Speaker 3: meal is coming from, where nobody's buying.

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Speaker 1: That's a rough moment to be in as a writer

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Speaker 1: or creative. Yes, how did you get through that? I

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Speaker 1: mean besides falling on your knees?

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Speaker 2: I think there's not much besides that. Actually, I mean

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Speaker 2: you can have you can have wonderful people in your life,

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Speaker 2: as I certainly did and do, who are there for

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Speaker 2: you in every possible way. They can be there for you.

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Speaker 2: And I had plenty of them. Yeah, but uh, you

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Speaker 2: know there's a there's an old spiritual from the South.

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Speaker 2: You got to walk that lonesome, lonesome valley. You got

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Speaker 2: to walk it by yourself and nobody else can walk

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Speaker 2: it for you. And there was that element for me

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Speaker 2: of Okay, I've done everything I know to do. Now

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Speaker 2: just fall into the arms of God and let it go.

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Speaker 1: But you had fallen into the arms of God a

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Speaker 1: little earlier actually, because you go to do to study divinity.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're studying religion. Yes, what did your

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Speaker 1: father the salesman? What did thurman think of that? Thank

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Speaker 1: you for calling my father's name. It always makes me smile.

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Speaker 2: My father. I think at a sense that my calling

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Speaker 2: was not in the clergy I had been, and I

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Speaker 2: actually never felt that I was, And you know, in

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Speaker 2: in sort of evangelical circles, and that's that's where I

386
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Speaker 2: come out of and still am. The there's a sense

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Speaker 2: that the God called you that you have, you know, vocation.

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Speaker 2: There's there's this calling and uh, and God calls you

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Speaker 2: in in sometimes general ways and sometimes overwhelming ways, but

390
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Speaker 2: you've got to you got to listen to the call.

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Speaker 2: And I loved the study of religion, but I never

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Speaker 2: imagined that I would be a pastor. But I had

393
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Speaker 2: no idea what I would be.

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Speaker 1: Huh.

395
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Speaker 2: So, when I was majoring in religion and I was

396
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Speaker 2: about to graduate and had I was thinking I would

397
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Speaker 2: do one more year in seminary to try to get

398
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Speaker 2: even deeper, and I wanted to study the Resurrection. I

399
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Speaker 2: wanted to do all those things, and I wanted to

400
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Speaker 2: explore being a writer, and I thought that this would

401
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 2: give me a chance to have the room to do

402
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 2: that as as a seminarian. My pastor, the pastor of

403
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 2: the church I grew up in, said to me, do

404
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Speaker 2: you feel the call to be a pastor? And I said, honestly,

405
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 2: I don't, but I know it's the greatest calling anyone

406
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 2: can ever have. And he said, well, you're wrong. The

407
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Speaker 2: greatest calling you can have is the one God has

408
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Speaker 2: for you. And that was one of the most powerful

409
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Speaker 2: moments and one of the most beautiful moments. I have

410
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Speaker 2: to say, where a man that I respected. He was

411
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Speaker 2: a fantastic pastor, but he wasn't trying to herd me

412
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Speaker 2: into his path. It was like follow your own path.

413
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Speaker 2: That was It's like what a father, I think should

414
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Speaker 2: say too, And.

415
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Speaker 1: How did that training prepare you as a writer, because

416
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Speaker 1: I know you're interested in music at this point, so

417
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Speaker 1: you're writing music, not the written word, but it's a

418
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: written soul. That's right, and you can clarify the story.

419
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 1: But Chris Christopher's and is coming to Duke, Yes, and

420
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 1: you connived to get close to him.

421
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 2: Yes, So he's a Rhodes scholar, he's an airborne ranger,

422
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 2: he's a Golden Gloves boxer, and and he writes these

423
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 2: incredibly brilliant songs. So that's kind of my decision making

424
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: formula is find someone that you admire and relate to

425
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Speaker 2: and see what they do. And I had seen that

426
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Speaker 2: Chris Christopherson had gone to Nashville, which I didn't feel

427
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 2: was my natural place. I was writing more like say

428
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 2: Kat Stevens or Neil Diamond pop music, pop music, more

429
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Speaker 2: pop music, and less kind of country music. But Christopherson

430
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Speaker 2: had brought this poetry and this masculine energy into a

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Speaker 2: context that was quite poetic and really embraced. I mean,

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00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 2: country music is mainly lyrics, and it's adult lyrics and stories. Yeah,

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00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 2: the bubblegum thing, you know. I'm fourteen, and I just

434
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 2: saw a girl. That is a very pop music kind

435
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 2: of thing. But I'm a man. I'm struggling how to be,

436
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 2: how to be a father, a husband in all of

437
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: my brokenness and my mistakes and what made Milwaukee famous

438
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 2: made a loser out of me. That's country news. And

439
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 2: Christofferson brought that and I got to meet him. My

440
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 2: dad felt the same way about the seminary as he

441
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 2: felt about me being a writer, which is he thought

442
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 2: neither one of those was safe. And he wanted me

443
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 2: to be a lawyer. I had crushed the law school

444
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 2: admissions test. I had like, I like, I had a

445
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: chance to have scholarships and everything else. And I'd always

446
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 2: sort of thought I would be a lawyer, but it

447
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 2: didn't feel it wasn't calling to me. The way creating

448
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 2: things was, writing was, and music did.

449
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: So. So you're in Nashville, what happens in Nashville.

450
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 2: So in Nashville, I was working at a theme part

451
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: called opry Land, working eighty hours a week. I loved it,

452
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 2: but I was getting up at four point thirty every

453
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,679
Speaker 2: morning to write songs. And I got signed as a

454
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 2: songwriter to a company called Tree Music. There's a funny thing. Raymond.

455
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 2: I shared this story with Jordan Peterson when I I

456
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: was talking with him that I had decided that I

457
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 2: wasn't as committed as I needed to be. And I

458
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 2: got that impression from two things. One, I wasn't selling

459
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: songs in Nashville, and I felt, Okay, I'm not being

460
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: disciplined enough about being productive enough finding my mind. I

461
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 2: wrote more songs than anybody at Tree was writing at

462
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: the time, but they were writing better songs. Like a

463
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 2: guy that Bobby Braddock was there. He wrote he stopped

464
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: loving her today.

465
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,479
Speaker 3: And I just thought of that earlier when you were

466
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 3: talking about heartbreak, and you know, it's that your great song, that's.

467
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 2: One of the greatest songs ever written. And so those guys,

468
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 2: I were thinking, Okay, I've got to really up my

469
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 2: game to keep up with these guys. But there's also

470
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 2: the you know, not trying to keep up with other people.

471
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: What's the best randal I can be? And I had

472
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 2: a picture of Beethoven. It's a classic Beethoven picture of

473
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 2: him holding a manuscript and he's kind of frowning up

474
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 2: and so intense, and I thought, I'm going to try

475
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 2: to be that guy. And I quit my job. I'd

476
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 2: saved up money. I was sleeping on the floor. I

477
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 2: spent no money for furniture or he had just paid rent,

478
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 2: rent and food was all I had. And and I

479
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 2: spent all day long, writing, practicing, studying music, and not

480
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 2: seeing anybody. And at the end of about three or

481
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: four months, I was nearly insane. I was there. There

482
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 2: was a day in Nashville when I realized the sun

483
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: had not come out in fourteen days, and if I

484
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: didn't see some sunshine, I was afraid I was going

485
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: to kill myself. And I've got to I've got to

486
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: get I've got to get out of here. I've got

487
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 2: to go. And I packed up everything I could carry

488
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 2: in my little car and I drove to California alone.

489
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 3: And that was it.

490
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 2: That was it.

491
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: How did you get involved with Stephen Cannell, which is

492
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: now you're writing, I mean you segue into writing TV.

493
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 3: He was the big TV producer.

494
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a writer, awesome, I mean, a massive

495
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 2: mentor and friend. I mean, he was an amazing human being.

496
00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: I met him because having nothing to do except write,

497
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 2: I couldn't write all day. I'd learned in Nashville that

498
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: if I wrote, if I tried to write all day,

499
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: I would drive myself insane and I needed to be

500
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 2: around other people. But I wanted something healthy to do,

501
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 2: and I found well, okay, a gym membership is the

502
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: cheapest thing you could do. I went to the gym

503
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 2: every single day and worked out, and we worked out

504
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: like a madman. And I've always loved working out. But

505
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 2: I was in the gym one day and there was

506
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: a guy helping a friend. He was real strong guy,

507
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: and he was helping a sort of out of shape friend,

508
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 2: trying to encourage him to lift and be healthier. And

509
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: they were clearly musicians because they were talking about music,

510
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: and this guy was telling stories about Elvis, and I

511
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 2: piped up and said, hey, you know, I grew up

512
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 2: in Memphis and my father saw Elvis and get paid

513
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 2: fifty bucks to open a supermarket, you know, saying while

514
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: the supermarket was And we start talking, and the guy

515
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 2: got do you run? And I said, oh, you know,

516
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 2: I ran in college, but I don't run. My Sae

517
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 2: and Heid, well, we've got a running group every weekend.

518
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: Come out and run with us, and okay, great, and

519
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 2: we exchanged names and I said I'm Randy Wallace, and

520
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: he goes, I'm Mike Post and wait, Mike posts music.

521
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: Mike Post. He goes, yeah, that's me. I mean, total

522
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 2: down to earth guy, but the most successful and probably

523
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 2: most brilliant TV composer like ever. And and Mike made

524
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: it his business to get Steve to read my scripts.

525
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 2: And Steve kept saying, you know, it's like there are

526
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,719
Speaker 2: thousands of guys trying to get me to read the scripts.

527
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: And Mike was was would not take no for an answer,

528
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: and then got me into to see Steve. And Steve

529
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: was doing a show about country people, and I told

530
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: him a story about my grandfather that made him laugh

531
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: and he said, well, we'll give you a shot, and

532
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 2: that was it.

533
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 3: Was it.

534
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I became his protege.

535
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 3: How long were you there?

536
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: Four years?

537
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 3: Four years?

538
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

539
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 3: And then then you run up into this this brave

540
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 3: Heart moment.

541
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

542
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: You've said, Brave Heart could not have been written except

543
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: for my mother.

544
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 3: Why.

545
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: Well, so my father was a salesman, and I, like

546
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: I've said, I never knew anybody who had more charisma

547
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 2: and charm and great than my dad, with the exception

548
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 2: of my mother. Probably that my mother had my father

549
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 2: had the attitude that every person had a value and

550
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 2: was due respect. So when he went into a company,

551
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: and he went into hundreds and hundreds of them, he

552
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: knew the name of the president that he knew the

553
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: name of the person that answered the phone for the president.

554
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 2: But he knew the name of the guy that swept

555
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 2: the floors every single place. He knew, he knew that

556
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: guy's children, he knew where the guy lived, he knew

557
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 2: what the guy loved to do. And it wasn't a tactic.

558
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 2: He just actually loved people like that. Now, my mother

559
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 2: had a different sort of take on it. She believed

560
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 2: that everybody could be loved by God, but she didn't

561
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: have to love everybody because you might be unlovable. And

562
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 2: her attitude was if everyone likes you, you're probably doing

563
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 2: something wrong. In fact, to jump ahead for a moment,

564
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 2: when we had made we were soldiers and my father

565
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: had just passed away. My father died on nine to eleven,

566
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: and that was how I came to write the hymn Mansions.

567
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 3: Of the Lord. The Lord.

568
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was calling my mother every day in

569
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: those days to you know, just check in on her.

570
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 2: And of course I guess I needed to hear her

571
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 2: voice as much as she needed to hear mine. But

572
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 2: we were about to do the first test screening. You

573
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 2: know that you have you show the movie and then

574
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 2: you show it to the audience, and no matter how

575
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 2: confident you are, you got a real you know, you're

576
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: not in your summer. And I was talking with my mother.

577
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 2: I said, how are you doing, mom? And she said

578
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 2: I'm fine.

579
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: How are you?

580
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 2: And I said, well, I'm nervous today And she goes

581
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: why And I said, well, we're having a and she's

582
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: from Tendessee, right farm girl. And I said, well, we're

583
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 2: having the first test screening of We Were Soldiers. And

584
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 2: she said, well, why would that make you nervous? And

585
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 2: I said, well, mamma, you know you put your blood,

586
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 2: your sweat, your tears, and your money into a movie.

587
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: And you know there are going to be some people

588
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 2: that really have their knives out. They just want to

589
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 2: they just want to tear you down. And my mother goes, well, honey,

590
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: if they crucified Jesus Christ, there's going to be some

591
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 2: people that don't like you.

592
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 3: Get over it.

593
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 2: It's like that's right, It's like, yes, some people will not,

594
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: but do what you believe doing and that that thing

595
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 2: in Brave Heart, like when it comes to every man dies,

596
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 2: not every man really lives. We certainly think of that

597
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: kind of line about our fathers and he says man

598
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 2: in it, but it's it's certainly as true about every

599
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:30,280
Speaker 2: For you, it was your.

600
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 3: Mother, my mother?

601
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:31,439
Speaker 2: Yeah?

602
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 3: Wow, Why did the Three Musketeers still appeal to you?

603
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 3: The Man in the Iron Mask one of my favorite

604
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 3: movies ever, And I've told you before. My boys and

605
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 3: I used to watch it.

606
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: They loved that movie because it's it's filled with adventure.

607
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: It has the same heart and soul and whole DNA

608
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: that Braveheart has.

609
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,919
Speaker 3: Frankly, what was the appeal there? Guys?

610
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 2: Raymond? It's funny. No one's ever asked me this, and

611
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to get to say this. So Braveheart

612
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 2: is my first produced feature and it becomes this worldwide station.

613
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: And I realized that if what I tried to do

614
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 2: was copy that again and again that I had, that

615
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 2: I was over that. I had to actually trust that

616
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 2: what brought me to Braveheart was going to bring me

617
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 2: to other things. And I had to be willing to

618
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: let go and not say well, I'm going to just

619
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 2: repeat this now. Hollywood likes repetition because it makes it

620
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 2: feel more predictable and understandable. Okay, we've put you in

621
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 2: this historical box. But what happened with Manny ron Mask

622
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 2: is Becky Pollock again, like you know, her dad made

623
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 2: Jeremiah Johnson Three Days of the Condor and all these

624
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: other great movies with those two were my particular favorite.

625
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: And she called me up and said, man in the

626
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: Iron Mask, what do you think? And I had loved

627
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: that story since I was a boy. I mean, the

628
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 2: mysterious nature of it, right, who is he? Why is

629
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 2: he in the Iron Mask?

630
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 3: All of that.

631
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 2: So I called her and said, I'm in you know,

632
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 2: I want to do it. But what really appealed to

633
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 2: me was that the thematics of that story were that

634
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: these musketeers, the four of them, actually like you know,

635
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 2: the three then plus d'Artagnan, those guys were in a

636
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: certain way past their prime in that they had been

637
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: famous in their twenties. Now they were sort of retired.

638
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: One's a jesuit, one's a dad, one's in dissipation. And

639
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:01,399
Speaker 2: then d'Artagnan is the captain of the King's right, and

640
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 2: and that story was the same thing that I faced of. Okay,

641
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 2: if you've done something that the world is now the

642
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 2: world didn't know me, then you mail but they didn't.

643
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 2: They didn't. They didn't know much about me. That wasn't

644
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: the point. The point was I could keep trying to

645
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 2: live in the past, or I could say, what brought

646
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 2: me here has something else for me to do. And

647
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 2: that's where Man in the Iron Man. That was the

648
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 2: theme really of Man in the Iron And you directed

649
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 2: it too, I did, which is I mean, that's the

650
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 2: first movie you directed. R Yeah, that's right.

651
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 3: Wow, it's such a great movie. It still holds up.

652
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 1: I watched it recently, Thank you. It's it's but I

653
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: see the same themes, but it's not.

654
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 3: The same movie. You're right now, It's very different. It's

655
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 3: a lot of fun too. I mean, I think it's

656
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 3: a it's hilarious and a delightful movie. Do you outline No,

657
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 3: not at all.

658
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 2: No, No, I don't believe in it.

659
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: You just launch you and write it actively.

660
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:05,320
Speaker 2: Disagree with outlining why because the way you determine whether

661
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,280
Speaker 2: an outline is good or bad, it's whether it sounds

662
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 2: like something you've seen before.

663
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 3: That's true. That's true.

664
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 2: I'm trying to find a story that I have not

665
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 2: ever heard before. It's not I'm not trying to replicate.

666
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 2: I don't want to be copying. So again, like you say,

667
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: take Braveheart, if it hadn't been someone like mel who

668
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 2: was who had who had bitten hard on on the

669
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 2: bait of Braveheart, if some other actor had come in

670
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 2: and said, oh, well this, I loved the story, but

671
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 2: but my friends should swing in on vines and save

672
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,720
Speaker 2: me in the end, I can't die, then the studio

673
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 2: would have gone, yes, sure.

674
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 3: Absolutely, we need a happy ending. What are you? What

675
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 3: the hell are you doing exactly?

676
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 2: So it's like you got to find the thing or

677
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 2: say Murans throat being cut. Nobody did things like that,

678
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 2: and it wasn't me trying to be different. It was

679
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 2: the story told itself to me in that way. And

680
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 2: I want to listen to what the story is telling

681
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: me in real time. In real time now, while I'm writing,

682
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 2: I'll get a projection of oh, down the line, this

683
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 2: will happen.

684
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you make that.

685
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 2: I'll just I'll write those. I write a little dialogue

686
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 2: that I know is coming, but that's just to jog

687
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,840
Speaker 2: my memory, but I do not outline.

688
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 3: You do say a prayer though every day? Oh yeah,

689
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 3: what is that prayer?

690
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 2: Well, okay, I can tell you exactly what it is.

691
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:51,760
Speaker 2: So to prepare to write, I start with, I thank

692
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 2: God for now and for this work, and I asked

693
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: him to bless me in it and others through it.

694
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 2: However it is his will. I pray to offer the

695
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 2: work to him as he offers it to me, in

696
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 2: faith and hope and love. And then I say the

697
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 2: prayer of Jabez Lord. I pray that you would bless me,

698
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 2: bless me indeed, increase my territory, and that the hand

699
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 2: be upon me to keep me from evil, and that

700
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: I cause no pain. And I thank God that God

701
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 2: is God, almighty and Lord of all creation, and that

702
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 2: I'm part of his creativity too, and for that I

703
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 2: give thanks and I rejoice. And that's the way I start.

704
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 2: I have to say that first.

705
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: Huh, you see yourself in every character? Oh yeah, yeah,

706
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: you're playing all the parts. Yes, yeah, I thought that

707
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: was just me. I didn't realized you did that too. Well,

708
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: but it's I guess we're the instrument you have to

709
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: kind of. I mean, you only have one heart and

710
00:41:58,719 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: one soul.

711
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 3: And one mind. I mean you just sort of bend them,

712
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 3: I guess to the character in the moment.

713
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that that there is something in all

714
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 2: of us that recognizes the potential to do, to do

715
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 2: incredible evil and transcendent good. I think that that is

716
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: the nature of our lives.

717
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: Tell me about we were soldiers speaking of transcendent good. Yeah,

718
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: I knew Lieutenant Hallmore, Lieutenant Colonel Hollmore.

719
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:45,919
Speaker 3: He was such a heroic and great man.

720
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,120
Speaker 1: How did you come across the story you read?

721
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 3: You read the book, I imagine, yes, and your thoughts

722
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 3: on that film looking back and who he was, the

723
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 3: type of man he was, And of course it's your

724
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 3: reunion artistically with Mel.

725
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 2: Yes, I was sitting in my office, the same office

726
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 2: at the Home office that I was sitting in when

727
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 2: I wrote Braveheart, and I started to work on Man

728
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 2: in the Iron Mask, and the phone rang and it

729
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 2: was an executive at Warner Brothers who said, I nearly

730
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 2: lost my job over Braveheart. And how's that? And she said, well,

731
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: where Mel is at Warner Brothers. He's on the studio

732
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 2: a lot with his company, and we're supposed to keep

733
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 2: track of everything. And suddenly he announces he's doing this

734
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 2: thing Braveheart, and we weren't even aware of it. And

735
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 2: I said, well, you know, he could have been I

736
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 2: suppose he had just met but she said no, no,

737
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 2: I'm not not angry. But Kevin Costner has read Brave

738
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 2: Heart and he wishes you had send it to him,

739
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: and he would like to meet you. And I took

740
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 2: a moment and I said, I wish my father was

741
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 2: here to hear me say this. I would love to

742
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: go to Hawaii to meet with Kevin Costner, but I

743
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 2: can't because I need to go to England to help

744
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 2: mel Gibson. She laughed and said, no, Kevin understands, but

745
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 2: he's working on a movie called water World. And yeah,

746
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 2: but he would like to see you and we want

747
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 2: to fly you over. So I went to the bookstore

748
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 2: and was looking. I love to read nonfiction. It informs me,

749
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 2: I think more than even though I love fiction, I

750
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: write fiction. And here's this book, We were Soldiers Once

751
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,480
Speaker 2: and Young, and there's a picture on the cover of

752
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 2: a young lieutenant platoon leader with his bayonet fixed, leading

753
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 2: his men into the brush. Guy's name was Rick Riscola.

754
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 2: You may know of Rick Chris Gola, one of the

755
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 2: great heroes of all time and the guy I want

756
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 2: to write about. But I picked up that book and

757
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: I opened it on the plane and did not put

758
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 2: it down the whole flight to Hawaii, and I came

759
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 2: across in the preface, Hollywood has gotten the story of

760
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 2: the Vietnam veteran wrong every damn time, wedding the knives

761
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 2: of twisted politics on the bones of our dead brothers.

762
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 2: And I was like, Okay, I am in now I

763
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 2: get to the actual People don't believe this, but are

764
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 2: surprised by it. The scene that really put the nail

765
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 2: in the coffin for me was a letter from a

766
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: woman named Barbara Gaigin, who was the wife of the guy,

767
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 2: who was a devout Catholic. He and Barbara had gone

768
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: to Africa and Catholic release services. He had postponed his

769
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:03,800
Speaker 2: Vietnam deployment he could go be a missionary in Africa.

770
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 2: He had been killed trying to draw up pick up

771
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: one of his wounded men and carry him off the battlefield.

772
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 2: He had been killed too, and Barbara wrote a letter

773
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 2: to how about her experience. When he came to visit her,

774
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 2: and it moved me to the core of my being.

775
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 2: I got off the plane and I called my agent

776
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 2: and I said, somebody has got to own the movie

777
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 2: rights to this book. You tell them I'll kill a

778
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: relative to get to write this story. And he said,

779
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 2: I'll get right back to you. So he calls me

780
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 2: the next day and says they won't sell the movie

781
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 2: rights because they're afraid Oliver Stone will end up with them,

782
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 2: or it'll be it'll be it'll be turned into you

783
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 2: guys were baby killers and all of that, and so

784
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 2: I said, okay, give me their number, and I called them.

785
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 2: I got Joe Galloway, the journalist himself, and I said,

786
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: you don't know me. I've written a script called Braveheart.

787
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 2: I'm going to send it to you. It's currently in production,

788
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 2: but you've never heard of my name. But you read

789
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 2: it and then if you like it, call me. So

790
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 2: next day he calls it goes okay, let's talk. So

791
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 2: I said, I can go to a studio based on

792
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 2: the success of Braveheart, and I can get them to

793
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 2: but they will own it and then they'll do anything

794
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 2: they want to with it if you will let me

795
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 2: buy it with my own money. I'll pay you my

796
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 2: own money to buy the movie rights, and I'll write

797
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 2: you a deal that you'll make more money and success

798
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 2: than you would have ever made from the studio. And

799
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 2: if you don't like what I do, you'll know who

800
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 2: to come shoot. And they went in. And then Hal

801
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 2: proceeded to become one of the great mentors of my life.

802
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 2: He was he was like a second dad.

803
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 3: Great man. So yeah, great great man.

804
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: Every year I went with him a couple of times

805
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: when he would go to the Vietnam Memorial with his

806
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: with his rangers, and every year.

807
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 3: There would be less of them.

808
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: Yeah.

809
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was very moving. It was very moving. Ye,

810
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 3: incredible man.

811
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 2: I went to the renaming ceremony when they renamed Fort

812
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 2: Benning and uh and named it Fort Julie and hal Moore,

813
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: and I had to say, I appreciate and in fact,

814
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 2: I'm troubled by the destruction of history, you know, the

815
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: taking down of statutes, whether you love them or hate them.

816
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 2: You know, history is history, and heritage is heritage, and

817
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 2: and many of those things are there for us to

818
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:58,319
Speaker 2: be provoked by. But I loved that they named that

819
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 2: fort Fort howl and juli More and no one ever

820
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,959
Speaker 2: deserved it or was more exemplary the values that you want,

821
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 2: you want not only the soldiers but their families to have.

822
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 3: Are you?

823
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:16,879
Speaker 1: Are you amazed culturally the way it seems I could

824
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: be overstating that masculinity is back. Young guys are finding

825
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: their voice again. They're showing up, not always in comfortable

826
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: or well dressed or mannered ways, but they're willing to

827
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 1: allow their voices to be Amen.

828
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 2: Amen, I agree with you. It is. It is amazing

829
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 2: how it's happening. And I'll tell you just my personal

830
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:50,720
Speaker 2: reaction about that. So again, I grew up not only

831
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: with an amazing, amazingly gentle and powerful father, but an

832
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 2: amazing tough and elegant mother. She was very much liked,

833
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 2: Julie Moore, and I always grew up with the belief

834
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 2: that a man respecting women was the most masculine man

835
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 2: there could be. I was doing a charity screening A

836
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 2: Brave Heart in Austin, Texas about ten fifteen years ago.

837
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 2: It was the first first time I'd seen the movie

838
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 2: screened in a decade or more we had and I

839
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 2: watched it as an audience member, and then I went

840
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 2: up on the stage to do a Q and A

841
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:40,279
Speaker 2: with the audience. I walk up there and I was

842
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 2: moved by the movie, you know, to see it in

843
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 2: that way. And the first one to stand up was

844
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 2: a nineteen year old woman right on the front row.

845
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,479
Speaker 2: And she stood up and said, mister Wallace, I don't

846
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 2: have a question. I just want to tell you something.

847
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,919
Speaker 2: My fiance died six months ago, and before he died,

848
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 2: he told me he wanted me to watch Braveheart so

849
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 2: I would understand the way he loved me. And I

850
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 2: had to. I couldn't talk for about five minutes. It

851
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 2: was such a powerful example to me that strong women

852
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 2: want strong men, and strong men want strong women. Strong

853
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:27,280
Speaker 2: doesn't mean overly macho. It doesn't mean trying to prove yourself.

854
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 2: But to this day and I always will, and I

855
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 2: have taught my sons you open doors for ladies not

856
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: because they're weak, because you're telling them you're honoring them,

857
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,520
Speaker 2: and that's what you do, and they hear that. My

858
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 2: youngest son has picked up a habit for me that

859
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 2: when I meet a woman that I think is due honor,

860
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 2: I will kiss her hand and invariably it makes them glow.

861
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 2: And he does it, and I was like, yeah, that's

862
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 2: how you treat a woman. So yeah, I want to

863
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 2: see men valued and no society that doesn't see a

864
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 2: man as an honorable creature. And not that a man

865
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,759
Speaker 2: has to be like a woman, but a man has

866
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 2: to share the heart of a woman, like the tenderness.

867
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 2: So you know, a gentle tender father is one of

868
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 2: the most powerful things in.

869
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 3: The world man in the world do And so.

870
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,359
Speaker 2: That's the thing that I am just I am thrilled

871
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: to see that happening all over.

872
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: I'm intrigued about when Mel approached you about the resurrection?

873
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 3: Was this twenty sixteen? Was it Hacksaw Ridge time? Was

874
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 3: that yesty?

875
00:52:56,640 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 2: Mel didn't approach me. I approached him, actually all and

876
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 2: that's a it's a Now, this is not to say

877
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 2: that over the years he hadn't thought many times about

878
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 2: the resurrection. In fact, in the original, in the original

879
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 2: Passion of the Christ, the original cut, he didn't have

880
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 2: the resurrection scenior u and that so so he was

881
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: getting feedback I think from people that we really want

882
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 2: to see that. So so he shut a little kind

883
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 2: of coda in that. So again I'm not trying to

884
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 2: take credit for this, but having studied the Resurrection and

885
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 2: being so consumed by it. I had thought about it

886
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 2: many times, and I didn't have anything to do with

887
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 2: Passion the Christ. When we were flying back to Washington,

888
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: d C. For a screening of We Were Soldiers, it

889
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 2: was the the first movie to be screened at the

890
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 2: Bush White House, Mel was telling us the story of

891
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: the Passion that he wanted to do in a real

892
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 2: animated way, But all I did was just listen. I

893
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 2: didn't have any input on that. But when we were

894
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,879
Speaker 2: promoting Hacksaw Ridge and we were sitting there talking and

895
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 2: about our lives, and that's one of the really awesome

896
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 2: things to me about getting to know Mel. We've had

897
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,399
Speaker 2: some moments when it was just the two of us.

898
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 2: We once talked in a hallway at Fort Benning in

899
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 2: a sort of barracks all the way at two in

900
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 2: the morning when neither of us could sleep, when we

901
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,359
Speaker 2: were prepping We Were Soldiers, were bump into each other

902
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 2: walking allways and talked for hours. And we've had a

903
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:57,319
Speaker 2: lot of great conversations in those moments. And we were

904
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 2: having dinner while we were promoting all Riche and I said, look,

905
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,879
Speaker 2: you know the story that you really need to tell

906
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 2: it's the resurrection. And there was this long pause and

907
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 2: he said something profoundly beautiful. He said, if we do this,

908
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 2: it can't be for the money, and it can't be

909
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 2: for to get back at people that you know that

910
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,080
Speaker 2: have have hated us or wronged us, or or or

911
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 2: are been unhappy with us. And I said, you know,

912
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:37,280
Speaker 2: amen to that. And then he said, you know Satan's

913
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 2: going to come after you. And I said, well, you know,

914
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,759
Speaker 2: Satan doesn't really care about Baptists. It's really good when

915
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 2: Satan can get a Catholic.

916
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,800
Speaker 3: But Baptis Sir Doma doesn't.

917
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 2: And and and of course you know I was being facetious,

918
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 2: but I was also thinking that what if he's right, Well.

919
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 3: That's what I would be thinking. What if he's right.

920
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 2: Well, we had a beautiful conversation about grace and uh.

921
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:13,600
Speaker 2: And what I said was, first of all, thank you

922
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,720
Speaker 2: you have a mass said for me. I appreciate it

923
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 2: in my soul. What about you? You know, what should

924
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 2: what should we do for you? And we had this

925
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 2: great conversation about grace that that we in you know,

926
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 2: in Catholicism you have the duties of the rituals, that

927
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:42,360
Speaker 2: these are important it's not to say I I don't

928
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 2: believe it. It would be accurate to say that that

929
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 2: Catholics believe that the given ritual itself is the thing

930
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 2: that does the has the efficacy, but it's.

931
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 3: A vehicle of grace. The sacrament is a vehicle.

932
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:04,120
Speaker 2: A vehicle of grace. And now protestantsor without the formalities

933
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 2: of it, but we believe in the same grace and

934
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 2: that that God loves us. While we don't deserve it,

935
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 2: we can't come to deserve it. We do our best

936
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 2: to live in in the honoring of the love that

937
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 2: God gave us before we deserved it, and we never

938
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 2: will deserve it. So we had this great conversation about that,

939
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 2: and and that was that was the way we started.

940
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 2: And I said, look, I knew that that he had

941
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 2: written the Passion, was very much, deeply involved in the

942
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:44,320
Speaker 2: writing of it. And I said, well, look, let's partner

943
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 2: up and I'll write a draft, give it to you.

944
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 2: Then we'll start, you know, tearing it up, go through it.

945
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 2: You do your thing, I'll do my well, we'll work together,

946
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 2: we'll work apart. So so we started that way, and

947
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 2: and then it's really you know, he he has brought.

948
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 2: It's somewhat different than the way Braveheart was, and that

949
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 2: I wrote the script, took it to him, but he

950
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 2: had to take it apart in his head and put

951
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 2: it back together in his head to direct it. And

952
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 2: we were soldiers, he acted, and it was I wrote it,

953
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 2: I directed it, I produced it. Then in this it's like, Okay,

954
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 2: his unique vision of the spiritual realm is uh is

955
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 2: really special? And UH and the you know, the interesting

956
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 2: thing is that while in some ways the Ultimate Movie,

957
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,360
Speaker 2: I want to keep it all secret about what's going

958
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: to happen, but the Ultimate Movie in some ways will

959
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 2: have elements that people have never seen before. H And

960
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 2: in fact, in many ways it'll be stuff nobody's ever seen.

961
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 2: And yet I believe it will be in a certain way,

962
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 2: the most orthodox telling. It will be the most consistent

963
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 2: telling of the overall belief, the awe, and the mystery

964
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 2: that that Christians experience when they experience the Resurrection.

965
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 3: What is the hardest part of this process?

966
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: What is the most difficult, what's the what's the hardest

967
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: blockades that you've encountered? Because you are dealing with a

968
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: story that has so many unknown surrounding them, you know

969
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 1: Jesus shows it walks to the wall. I mean, you

970
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: know he's on the road to a mais Well, why.

971
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:54,919
Speaker 3: Don't they wreck?

972
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,360
Speaker 2: Yes exactly, yes, why don't they know it's yes?

973
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 3: But how do you trade that on camera?

974
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 2: I think that the first internal challenge. I'm not sure

975
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 2: how Mel would answer this question. To be fascinating to

976
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 2: see how he does. I'm sure you're going to talk

977
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 2: with him. But there's a universal kind of truth about

978
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,200
Speaker 2: this and every other story. It's getting out of the way,

979
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 2: getting yourself out of the way, and the other is

980
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 2: getting in the way. That as in when I first

981
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 2: wrote Braveheart, I didn't believe anybody was going to like it.

982
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 2: I thought I would, but I didn't believe it really nobody.

983
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 2: People have said to me, you had to know that

984
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,440
Speaker 2: people are going to love it, like no, I did not.

985
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 2: In fact, I believe no one was going to love it.

986
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 2: It was I wanted to write what was true for me.

987
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 2: That gets back to my mother. The other people saying

988
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 2: that somebody else did it, it is no excuse saying

989
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 2: that standard was high enough for them. That's good, that's

990
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,640
Speaker 2: high enough for them, It's not high enough for us.

991
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 2: We have a different we have a different standard. So

992
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,240
Speaker 2: I think there's the thing of does it move you?

993
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 2: And and that's one of the things I would say

994
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 2: about Mel in particular, that you see, you see that

995
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:32,280
Speaker 2: his heart and his vulnerability are in or in his work,

996
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 2: and they're certainly in mind. When I'm directing and the

997
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 2: actors do something that brings tears to my eyes, I

998
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 2: do not wipe them away. I go up to them

999
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 2: and I get in their face and I let them

1000
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 2: see that they just moved me. I need them to know.

1001
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: And if import insight though, he and you have that

1002
01:01:55,280 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 1: that vulnerability which people don't necessarily see, but that's that's.

1003
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 3: At the heart of his art and yours.

1004
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the part that I think they Again

1005
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 2: I'm not here to speak for Mel, but I think

1006
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 2: it's something that people really miss about him is how

1007
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 2: incredibly tender and generous hearted, and that he really wants

1008
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 2: to live in the right way. And he certainly has

1009
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 2: his challenges as we all do to doing that. But

1010
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 2: but yeah, I've seen multiple cases in which he felt

1011
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 2: he had to settle directly with a person, and he

1012
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 2: doesn't do it through like if he's got a problem

1013
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 2: with somebody. I've seen him go up and say, please

1014
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 2: forgive me, I'm sorry, And people don't see that that side,

1015
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 2: but it's it's quite real.

1016
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:00,160
Speaker 1: You said something I came across the other day that

1017
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: actually you told it to me years ago. I went

1018
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 1: through an old interview again me and you said this.

1019
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 1: I'm thought of as the author of Brave Heart, but

1020
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 1: this tale is the author of me. Yeah, explain that.

1021
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 2: Well. I think that there's something that happens when you

1022
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 2: speak the truth, as you know it is that it

1023
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 2: is not a one way flow. It is a it

1024
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 2: is a loop.

1025
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 3: It is a.

1026
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 2: Divine loop, and that by standing up and saying what

1027
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 2: you truly believe, then that actually creates it again in you.

1028
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 2: It's like taking a vow. Yeah. You know. I wrote

1029
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 2: a song once and I have thought of it recently

1030
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 2: because some relationships are changing in my life and one

1031
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 2: in particular, and and I wrote a song that had

1032
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:09,400
Speaker 2: the lyric what will it take if I follow my dream?

1033
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 2: Will it be just a little or everything? What will

1034
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 2: it mean if I give my all to a glorious

1035
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 2: climb or an endless fall? If I stood up and shouted,

1036
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 2: if I prayed on my knees. If I swore in defiance,

1037
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 2: if I said pretty please, would it all be the same.

1038
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 2: If I come to the end with no promise to

1039
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 2: keep and no vow to defend, I will stand my ground.

1040
01:04:36,760 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 2: I will kneel and pray. I won't wait for tomorrow.

1041
01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:42,440
Speaker 2: I'll do it today. I'll die in the dirt, but

1042
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:44,800
Speaker 2: my heart will be clean when I say yes to

1043
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 2: heaven and follow my dream. And that's what I believe.

1044
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 2: I believe that I wrote that some years back, just

1045
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 2: came across it recently.

1046
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:55,720
Speaker 3: And went, huh, there it is there.

1047
01:04:55,760 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 2: It is what out then spoke to me then and

1048
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 2: speaks to me in a different way. Now, what you

1049
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 2: do creates you as well as you create it.

1050
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 1: And now you're touring the country which I love, and

1051
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: you're you're you wrote a book called Living the Brave

1052
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 1: Heart Life. Yes, now you're kind of you're really traveling.

1053
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 1: You're the traveling evangelist for the Brave Heart Life. Let's

1054
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 1: face it. Yeah, what is it? Tell me what those

1055
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:28,040
Speaker 1: appearances are like, why you're doing that? Why are you

1056
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:33,200
Speaker 1: going town to town telling these stories? Your music?

1057
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:36,960
Speaker 3: Tell me what it is and why you decided to

1058
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 3: undertake it.

1059
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 2: I wanted I was. I was really offended during the pandemic.

1060
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:46,080
Speaker 2: I was offended by the fear that was prevalent and

1061
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:51,439
Speaker 2: among all of us, and particularly among our leaders, UH

1062
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:56,680
Speaker 2: to separate people. Diseases are dangerous, they kill people all

1063
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:03,440
Speaker 2: the time. I know we were uncertain how the pandemic

1064
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 2: was going to play out, but I didn't think it

1065
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 2: was going to wipe out the human race. I didn't

1066
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:11,280
Speaker 2: think that we were designed to be that frail. And

1067
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 2: I wanted to get out in front of people. I

1068
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 2: decided that that reaching people just through social media wasn't

1069
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 2: the way to reach people or to be reached by people.

1070
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 2: I wanted to have the experience like I had with

1071
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 2: that girl that stood up and gave me a gift

1072
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 2: that I never imagined getting to tell me, this is

1073
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:38,440
Speaker 2: the power that Braveheart had for women. That so I

1074
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 2: have got to get out of my comfort zone and

1075
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 2: Friendomen had gone back to doing music because I had

1076
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 2: this experience that I had Mercia in my right hand

1077
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,280
Speaker 2: and the doctors had decided they're going to amputate my hand,

1078
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:57,120
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. And I mean they had already decided.

1079
01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 2: It was Mayo clinic. They one of the physical therapists

1080
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:04,920
Speaker 2: told me they had already had the meeting of what

1081
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:08,560
Speaker 2: my post amputation therapy was going to be. With this

1082
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:13,960
Speaker 2: one doctor wouldn't give up and he had a plan,

1083
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:17,880
Speaker 2: and he found a way to save my hand, which

1084
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 2: involved taking an artery and a vein and a nerve

1085
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:22,880
Speaker 2: out of my leg and weaving it into my hand.

1086
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 2: I went to bed one night thinking the next day

1087
01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 2: they're going to amputate my hand. But I had a

1088
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 2: dream and in the dream I saw the Wallace family crest,

1089
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:39,720
Speaker 2: which is a night holding a sword cock to strike.

1090
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:43,520
Speaker 2: And in this dream I was the Knight, but instead

1091
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 2: of holding a sword, my fingers were pointing toward heaven

1092
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 2: and they were the ones that were going to start

1093
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 2: the amputation with. And I woke up going, God's not

1094
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 2: going to take my hand. And when I came out

1095
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 2: of that, I decided I'm going to instead of just

1096
01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:00,240
Speaker 2: like squeeze rubber balls and springs and things, going to

1097
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:02,520
Speaker 2: learn to play the piano. I bought a beautiful piano

1098
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 2: again to practice every day. And a friend of mine said,

1099
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 2: if you want to be a musician, you have to

1100
01:08:08,520 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 2: play in front of people. So I wrote a show

1101
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 2: and the show has clips from my movies and the

1102
01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,640
Speaker 2: stories about how I came to write those scenes. I

1103
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 2: tell some of the stories that we've shared today and

1104
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 2: music that I wrote for my movies, or about the

1105
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 2: themes that the movies are in. So it's a ninety

1106
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 2: minute almost Broadway like I think Bruce Springsteen on Broadway.

1107
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:37,120
Speaker 2: Of course he's Bruce Springsteen and I'm not. But I

1108
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 2: have movies that that people relate to and families could

1109
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:47,760
Speaker 2: see together and draw from. So I particularly loved to

1110
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:51,639
Speaker 2: go to schools. I went to Belmont University in Nashville. Yeah,

1111
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 2: it was an incredible experience. And so we're touring around

1112
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:56,799
Speaker 2: the country.

1113
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 1: I love that. I love it well. I also love

1114
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,040
Speaker 1: that it's full circle for you.

1115
01:09:01,320 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you're bringing the.

1116
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:06,759
Speaker 1: Music, your stories as well as the movies. It's really

1117
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 1: and yourself and you. And there's something.

1118
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 3: About live performance that, yes, is your replacement.

1119
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:12,080
Speaker 2: That's right.

1120
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 1: Let's talk before I go. There's an a royal Grande

1121
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 1: questionnaire I asked everybody, so forgive me, but this is

1122
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:21,720
Speaker 1: rapid fire. Okay, who's the person you most admire.

1123
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 2: Besides Jesus Davy Crockett? Why a common man who who

1124
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 2: had enormous challenges. Was illiterate, raised by an alcoholic father

1125
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:43,600
Speaker 2: who beat him and sold him into slavery when he

1126
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 2: was a child. Became a famed Indian fighter and then

1127
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 2: fought for the Indians. He was the only Tennessee and

1128
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 2: in Congress who refused to vote for the removal of

1129
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 2: the Indians. And and he had wit and courage, and

1130
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 2: he walked through the world alone and great and character.

1131
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 2: And I see that, and then having my dad was

1132
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 2: from Lizard Lick, Tennessee. I relate to Davy Crockett. But yeah,

1133
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 2: Davy Crockett.

1134
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:20,760
Speaker 3: That should be your next movie. It is, Oh, it is?

1135
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:24,160
Speaker 2: Are you working I'm working on. I'm working on right now,

1136
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:27,599
Speaker 2: a movie on the Swiss Guards. Huh, which we may

1137
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:32,000
Speaker 2: shoot simultaneously in Rome with with some other movie, some

1138
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 2: other little movie.

1139
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:33,559
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1140
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:37,200
Speaker 1: It made yeah interesting. Yeah, I'm getting all kinds of

1141
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 1: news today. Okay, what is your best feature?

1142
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 2: My best personal feature?

1143
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 3: Feature could be personal, could be physical, I don't care.

1144
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:49,639
Speaker 2: My best feature is my willingness to make a fool

1145
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:50,280
Speaker 2: of myself.

1146
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:55,360
Speaker 3: Huh. Favorite book and last book you read?

1147
01:10:55,640 --> 01:11:04,760
Speaker 2: My favorite book is well Charles Dickens. Probably great Expectations

1148
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:11,519
Speaker 2: or David Copperfield. I love Dickens. The most recent book

1149
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:14,680
Speaker 2: that I read is Rick Rubins on Creativity.

1150
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 3: Oh that's a great book.

1151
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:17,400
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

1152
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 3: Great boy, he's a great guy. What do you fear?

1153
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:28,879
Speaker 2: I fear fear. I fear listening to the fear is natural.

1154
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 2: Ernie Savage who was one of the heroes from We

1155
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 2: Were Soldiers, he went through an incredible physical horrors during

1156
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,880
Speaker 2: the battle and I asked him how he functioned amid

1157
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:45,040
Speaker 2: all the terror, and he said, well, fear is your friend.

1158
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 2: Without fear, we have never survived. It makes you alert,

1159
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:53,000
Speaker 2: it makes you motivated. Fear's your friend. I know it

1160
01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 2: can be. I know it also can eat you up.

1161
01:11:56,720 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 2: And I fear listening too much fear. One of part

1162
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 2: of my daily mantra, I call it the daily prayers

1163
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 2: I say, is that I abandoned fear.

1164
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:09,920
Speaker 3: Huh.

1165
01:12:10,400 --> 01:12:12,640
Speaker 2: I know it's there, but I walk away from it.

1166
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:17,040
Speaker 1: What do you know that others don't that no one

1167
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:23,320
Speaker 1: else does? I know that's a crafty and wicked question.

1168
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 1: That is such a but it's a good one. That's

1169
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:28,560
Speaker 1: such a good one.

1170
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 3: What do you know that others don't?

1171
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:37,599
Speaker 2: I know that within every one of us is a

1172
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:41,960
Speaker 2: little boy or a little girl who needs to be

1173
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 2: embraced and loved, and and there are other people that

1174
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 2: say those exact same words. It's just, you know, how

1175
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 2: does it manifest? It's it's one of the reasons that

1176
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:59,600
Speaker 2: like say, if I meet a woman in her nineties,

1177
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 2: I will kiss her hand. Okay, it's not the old

1178
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:05,679
Speaker 2: woman whose hand is being kissed, it's that little girl.

1179
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 2: And then that's something I know that other people don't

1180
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:08,680
Speaker 2: sing to.

1181
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:11,960
Speaker 3: I love that. What's your biggest regret?

1182
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:20,679
Speaker 2: Do you have one regret? You know, it's funny.

1183
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:21,960
Speaker 3: I have.

1184
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:32,840
Speaker 2: Moments that I regret the pain that something took but

1185
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 2: to happen, you know, a transition, a journey. I regret

1186
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:46,760
Speaker 2: the pain that that's something that I might have been

1187
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 2: going through cost of other people, particularly the ones that

1188
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:53,360
Speaker 2: I love the most. And at the same time, I

1189
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 2: really believe in the in the phrase in the fullness

1190
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:02,599
Speaker 2: of time, and that God's plan is better than mine.

1191
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 2: And so some of the things that I thought were

1192
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:09,400
Speaker 2: the worst things that could happen proved to be the

1193
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:14,840
Speaker 2: greatest blessings I could have. So so I try to

1194
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:17,639
Speaker 2: leave my regrets behind in the same way I try

1195
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 2: to leave fear behind.

1196
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:23,240
Speaker 1: What's the best piece of advice you ever received.

1197
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:26,960
Speaker 2: I yeah, one of the one of the most striking,

1198
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 2: other than my pastor saying, you know, the greatest calling

1199
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:32,920
Speaker 2: you could have is the one God has for you.

1200
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 2: One was how more, how would say over and over

1201
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 2: follow your instincts? When I was directing we were soldiers,

1202
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,880
Speaker 2: I was having a I'm sorry without a man in

1203
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:53,560
Speaker 2: the unmask. I was having a real challenge and I

1204
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 2: knew how. I knew how then, but I was having

1205
01:14:56,680 --> 01:14:58,760
Speaker 2: a real challenge. I was the first time director, and

1206
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:03,839
Speaker 2: all sorts of things were wrong. My marriage was in trouble.

1207
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:08,479
Speaker 2: I was exhausted. I was the writer and director and

1208
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 2: producer of that movie. And any one of those jobs

1209
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:13,879
Speaker 2: is enough to exhaust you and give you a nervous breakdown,

1210
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 2: But do all three at once, and that's hard. And

1211
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:20,080
Speaker 2: then I had all these movie stars on the same

1212
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:23,280
Speaker 2: movie and it's my first job and all that, And

1213
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:27,360
Speaker 2: I had some rebellions within the ranks because some of

1214
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 2: the people I felt resented they had been in the

1215
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 2: movie business for thirty years, wanted to direct movies and

1216
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:37,479
Speaker 2: they had never gotten an opportunity. And I've written one movie.

1217
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:40,840
Speaker 2: The fact that it was Braveheart didn't impress them. And

1218
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:45,040
Speaker 2: now I'm directing Leonardo DiCaprio and John Malkovich and all

1219
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 2: the early and I wrote how and I said, what

1220
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 2: do you do when the people under you? You know,

1221
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 2: I can hang some people from the yard arm, but

1222
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:00,719
Speaker 2: if a captain hangs to me any of the crew,

1223
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:03,680
Speaker 2: sooner or later people start to think, well, maybe the

1224
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:07,639
Speaker 2: problem is the captain. What should I do? And Hal

1225
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:11,719
Speaker 2: wrote me back and said, the job of any leader,

1226
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:15,000
Speaker 2: the first job is to grab your own morale by

1227
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 2: the scruff of the neck and lift it out of

1228
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:20,840
Speaker 2: the mud. So stop complaining and start leading. That was

1229
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 2: pretty powerful advice.

1230
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 3: And that's what you did. That's what I did, created a.

1231
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:26,400
Speaker 2: Heck of a movie by thank you, Thank you.

1232
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 3: What happens when this is over? Wow?

1233
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:35,200
Speaker 2: I don't even think of about it. I really don't.

1234
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 2: I I think and it's that I'll die in the dirt,

1235
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 2: but my heart will be clean and I'm prepared to

1236
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:51,280
Speaker 2: die in the dirt. So wow, yeah, I'm prepared.

1237
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:52,200
Speaker 3: I so enjoyed this.

1238
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:55,000
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you your joy always to see us.

1239
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:56,839
Speaker 2: Thank you to your brother, Thank.

1240
01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:00,920
Speaker 1: You, so many revelations in that interview, I will never

1241
01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:04,559
Speaker 1: hear every man dies, but not every man really lives

1242
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 1: without thinking of Randy Wallace's mother. And I loved that

1243
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 1: line from Colonel Halmore, whom I knew a leader's first

1244
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:14,719
Speaker 1: job is to grab your own morale by the scruff

1245
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:16,719
Speaker 1: of the neck and lift it out of the mud.

1246
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 1: So stop complaining and start leading. And the prayer Randy

1247
01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:23,240
Speaker 1: says before he writes it is so important, But I

1248
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 1: do hate that he doesn't outline anything.

1249
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:27,080
Speaker 3: Maybe that's why he's praying.

1250
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:31,920
Speaker 1: And finally abandon fear. It is the only true path

1251
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 1: to creativity. Arroyo Grande Travel is sponsored by our partners

1252
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:42,759
Speaker 1: at Corporate Travel, celebrating sixty years facilitating exceptional faith education,

1253
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:47,840
Speaker 1: music and family travel. This is their website at ctscentral

1254
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: dot net. I hope you'll come back to a Royal

1255
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:53,720
Speaker 1: Grande soon. Why live a dry, constricted life when if

1256
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 1: you fill it with good things, it can flow into

1257
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:58,559
Speaker 1: a broad, driving Arroyo Grande.

1258
01:17:58,760 --> 01:17:59,599
Speaker 3: I'm Raymond Arroyo.

1259
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:03,479
Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe like this episode, Thanks for diving in,

1260
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time. A Roo Grande is

1261
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:10,960
Speaker 1: produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. And is available on

1262
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio, Apple, wherever you get your podcasts.