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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace now just released the frantic

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Speaker 1: phone call made between cult mom Laurie Valo and her

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Speaker 1: brand new fourth or fifth husband, Doomsday cult leader Chad

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Speaker 1: day Bell. This as the FEDS and local authorities were

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Speaker 1: approaching his farm to start digging. FYI banner, if and

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Speaker 1: when you go to jail, I mean, everybody needs to

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Speaker 1: do a little approbation. But if it when you go

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Speaker 1: to jail, just know this, your calls are recorded. We

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Speaker 1: can hear everything. At some point it all comes out,

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Speaker 1: and boy, this is a whopper. This and the latest

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Speaker 1: developments in the case of cult mom Laurie Valo. I'm

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us here. First of all, I want you to

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Speaker 1: take a listen. We've obtained the actual recordings from the jail. Now.

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Speaker 1: They're a little hard to hear, as you can understand,

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Speaker 1: behind gail house walls, the recording quality. It's not like

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Speaker 1: you're in a studio, there are people walking around, you're

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Speaker 1: on a pay phone. Sometimes it's really hard to hear.

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Speaker 1: But in this first sound I'm going to play for you,

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Speaker 1: you're hearing this desperate phone call between Coltmum Laurie Valo

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Speaker 1: and her new husband, Chad day Bell. He is alerting

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Speaker 1: her quote, they are searching the house. Listen, are you okay?

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Speaker 1: H yeah, m hm, so mycoans will be talking to

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Speaker 1: the house, no property. Are they seeing again to searching?

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Speaker 1: M yes, searching. So just stan okay. Knowing what I'm

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Speaker 1: listening to helps me a lot to hear that and

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Speaker 1: understand what they're saying. He alerts Laurie Valo, they're here.

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Speaker 1: She says, are they searching the house? And at that

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Speaker 1: point he's says, they're searching the property. Now when you

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Speaker 1: hear the rest of this, it's really telling you. But

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Speaker 1: first of all, let me introduce my all star panel

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Speaker 1: joining me to break it down and put it back

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Speaker 1: together again. First of all, newcomer to our ranks, but

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Speaker 1: not a stranger to the courtroom. Joseph Marone, Philadelphia criminal

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Speaker 1: defense attorney. You can find him at Marone law dot com.

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Speaker 1: That's Maron with an E doctor Angela Arnold, Rown Psychiatrists

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Speaker 1: joining me from the Atlanta jurisdiction. Donald Schweitzer, first time guest,

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Speaker 1: former LA detective. I love that part. Criminal defense attorney,

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Speaker 1: former prosecutor, and you can find him at Schweitzer Law Partners,

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Speaker 1: Jennifer Schenn, forensic pathologist, former San Diego Police Department crime

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Speaker 1: Lab director, Dave Matcrime online dot Com investigative reporter joining us.

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Speaker 1: First of all, let me go to you, Donald Schweitzer,

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Speaker 1: former LA detective, former prosecute you are now criminal defense attorney.

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Speaker 1: You know what, Donald, have you do? You go by

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Speaker 1: Donald or Don don Don? Have you ever advised one

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Speaker 1: of your clients, let's just say, a nasty divorce, to

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Speaker 1: set up a wire or tape phone calls. I'm not

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Speaker 1: asking who, but let me just rephrase that. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever known of one of your clients that taped phone calls? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: People do it all the time. Unfortunately, as you know, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: there's crimes that are related to that, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: we discourage people from doing that. We tell them flat

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Speaker 1: out it's not going to come into evidence at least.

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Speaker 1: Why let me ask this, Don, is in your jurisdiction?

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Speaker 1: Is that one party consent? It is? Oh? I hate that,

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Speaker 1: I absolutely hate that. I hate when it's two party consent.

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Speaker 1: And what we mean by that is say I want

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Speaker 1: to tape Jackie's phone calls, which you know, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I am doing. I'm taping everybody, even taping myself. In

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Speaker 1: many jurisdictions it requires two parts consent. I have to

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Speaker 1: agree to be taped and she has to agree to

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Speaker 1: be taped. And a lot of jurisdictions it's one party consent.

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Speaker 1: In other words, I tape all my phone calls and

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Speaker 1: I happen to get you on the line, and that's okay.

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Speaker 1: But those aren't the rules behind bars. To Joseph Marone,

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia criminal defense attorney, Joseph, you heard what Don Schweitzer

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Speaker 1: just said. Do you remember top Mom Casey Anthony's case

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Speaker 1: where she killed her daughter Kelly, and those angry Gael

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Speaker 1: House conversations she would have with her parents where should

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Speaker 1: be nutting up on them as if they were the problem.

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Speaker 1: And all of that was accessible through the Florida Sunshine laws.

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Speaker 1: They tape everything that you say on the phone, every

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Speaker 1: video conference, you have, everything except when you meet with

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Speaker 1: your lawyers or you meet with your chaplain or priest.

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Speaker 1: None of that's taped and none of that can be accessed.

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Speaker 1: But Joseph Marone and a lot of cases, there are

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Speaker 1: recorders even within the jail cells or in the walls

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Speaker 1: that people don't know about and that's okay because you

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Speaker 1: don't have a right to privacy. Explain no, Listen, when

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Speaker 1: you're in custody of the law enforcement, you give up,

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Speaker 1: you know, you give up your valuable rights and you

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Speaker 1: have no right to privacy, meaning anything you say is

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Speaker 1: going to be privy to the government and they're going

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Speaker 1: to utilize that not only against you for any new crimes,

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Speaker 1: but specifically against you for the case in chief. And

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Speaker 1: a lot of times defendants, you know, they're contacting family members, friends,

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Speaker 1: and they start saying a lot of incriminating facts along

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Speaker 1: the way that the prosecutor gathers up and sometimes a's

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Speaker 1: in his case and obviously this is what's happened here,

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Speaker 1: so you know, it just gets worse and worse. And

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Speaker 1: the thing about Todd mom Casey Anthony, she portrayed herself

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Speaker 1: one way in court, you know, with the collar up

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Speaker 1: to hear and the long hair and the blaw of

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Speaker 1: the blaw and sitting there like a school library in

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Speaker 1: a little sweater button up to hear. No n O.

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Speaker 1: Because when you saw her going crazy, angry, screaming, seething

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Speaker 1: at her parents who were there to help her. You

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Speaker 1: see the other side of top Mom, Casey Anthony, And

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Speaker 1: that's what we're seeing right here. For those of you

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Speaker 1: just joining us, we're talking about caught Mom Laurie Valo

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Speaker 1: and her brand new husband Chad day Bell blabbing on

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Speaker 1: the phone about the search that was going down at

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Speaker 1: his farmhouse. As you probably already know, you legal eagles

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Speaker 1: the bodies of both two of Laurie Valo's children, JJ,

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Speaker 1: seven years old Tilly, a teen girl, found there on

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Speaker 1: that property. Doctor Angela Arnold, psychiatrist, joining me out of

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Speaker 1: the Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angie, this is something I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm just a JD. You're the MD. Why do people

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Speaker 1: let there? And I find myself doing it? If I'm

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Speaker 1: in court or I'm on TV, I have a you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm more guarded. But if I'm even doing a radio

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Speaker 1: interview on the phone, I mean, it all comes out.

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Speaker 1: Why are people so less inhibited on the phone than

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Speaker 1: they are in real life or in any other circumstance.

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Speaker 1: What is that? Well, you know, when you're on the telephone, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: people can't and on the radio, people can't actually see you,

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Speaker 1: can they? And I have a feeling that first of all,

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Speaker 1: this was such a disturbing phone call for her to

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Speaker 1: receive in jail, that the content of the phone call

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Speaker 1: was so disturbing and she and so she forgot because

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Speaker 1: there wasn't she didn't see anybody looking at her. And

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Speaker 1: so it's all about that personal contact and whether you

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Speaker 1: can actually see somebody or over the phone. You feel

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Speaker 1: like you're incognito, don't you. Yeah? You really do. You

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Speaker 1: feel hidden? You really do. And every inhibition, all your

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Speaker 1: guards seems to be letting down crime stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

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Speaker 1: we have obtained recordings of cult mom Lorie Valo speaking

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Speaker 1: to her brand new husband, Chad day Bell, a doomsday

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Speaker 1: cult leader, on the phone. Now, there is no way

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Speaker 1: in hub L Chad day Bell does not know that

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Speaker 1: the bodies of these two children are on his property.

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Speaker 1: And these phone calls are very revealing. Jackie, let's play

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Speaker 1: part two of the phone calls. Yeah, players, M great,

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Speaker 1: what do you want me to m m m m

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Speaker 1: hm h m hmm. What can I do for you?

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Speaker 1: M M pretty cold marl m M talk with him? Okay,

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Speaker 1: she says what can I do for you? When he

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and then says, I just want to

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Speaker 1: talk with you. Okay, you know to you, Donald Schweitzer,

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Speaker 1: former LA detective, former prosecutor, now defense attorney. I know

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Speaker 1: that you have listened to a hundred taps, as have I.

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Speaker 1: It's very hard. You get it, you get it side,

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Speaker 1: And to get a tap on a person you have

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Speaker 1: to go through a lot of legal hoops. You have

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Speaker 1: to go to the judge, very intrusive to get a

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Speaker 1: phone tap on somebody. But here you're in the jail,

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Speaker 1: so you don't have to go through all that. But

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Speaker 1: then when you hear it and I look at the

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Speaker 1: transcu something like that's not right. I'd have to go

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Speaker 1: through every phone call and retranscribe it myself, playing it back,

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Speaker 1: playing it back, playing it back, to catch every possible word.

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Speaker 1: It's very hard to do, Donald Schweitzer. It really is.

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Speaker 1: With my staff in my office, we go through great

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Speaker 1: pains trying to get some of the detail. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you don't get it, then it could cause a

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Speaker 1: lot of confusion with respect of what people are saying.

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Speaker 1: I listened to this recording, Go Nancy, and even though

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Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to hear it, first blush one

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Speaker 1: thing that's real clear, and that is that mister day

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Speaker 1: Bell seems to be very nervous. He seems to be

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Speaker 1: worried that, you know, they're going to find something. And

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Speaker 1: quite frankly, it looks like they're saying goodbye to each other,

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Speaker 1: or he's saying goobody to Laurie, because you know, he's

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Speaker 1: talking about it the bank's attorney and things of that nature.

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Speaker 1: To me, he seems like he's packing. He knows that

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Speaker 1: he's going to be headed for trouble real soon. And

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Speaker 1: that's just clearly doesn't doesn't really matter how clear the

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Speaker 1: words are. You could just tell by the tone and

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Speaker 1: some of the things that they're saying that you know

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Speaker 1: this is doomsday for both of them. Yeah, he's uh

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Speaker 1: creek without a paddle because there's two dead bodies in

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Speaker 1: his yard, buried back there with a pitt cemetery. To

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Speaker 1: Joseph Marone, two things strike me. Number One, they never

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Speaker 1: mentioned the children. It's all about them and the ramifications

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Speaker 1: of the search on his farm. They both know the

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Speaker 1: bodies of the children are going to be found, and

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Speaker 1: Tyley was horribly dismembered and burned. Way don't you hear

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Speaker 1: about It's just it's terrible. They never mentioned them. It's

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Speaker 1: all about me, me, me, me, me me. Number one

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Speaker 1: and number two. They sound like two love sick high

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Speaker 1: school sweethearts. What can they do for you? Want to

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Speaker 1: talk to you? Yeah, it's all about him feeling glum.

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Speaker 1: He's about to go to jail. Forget about dismembering Tiley

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Speaker 1: and murdering JJ. Does that not bug you, Joseph Moron?

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Speaker 1: I mean, how do you stand dealing with murderers and

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Speaker 1: molesters and all that every day. I mean, it's like

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Speaker 1: their own They're in their own little world. They don't

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Speaker 1: even get what they've done. How do you shake some

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Speaker 1: sense into your clients? Joseph listen. That's been the theme

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Speaker 1: of this whole case from day one when they first

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Speaker 1: approached both the Lori and Chad. I mean they from

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Speaker 1: day one day denied, you know, they're whereabouts. They lied,

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Speaker 1: They were only concerned about themselves all the way through,

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Speaker 1: and now in this circumstance, even through the phone conversation,

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Speaker 1: they were more concerned about, you know, are they going

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Speaker 1: to find something rather than the welfare of the children.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she clearly, you know, lied to the police

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Speaker 1: about her own children. And the other thing too, is

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Speaker 1: when you look through the evidence, it doesn't phase her

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Speaker 1: that her children are missing. I mean she's clearly caught

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Speaker 1: up in some type of some type of brainwashing or

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Speaker 1: some type of cult through him. I mean that's kind

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Speaker 1: of been what the evidence connects. But the interesting thing

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Speaker 1: in this case is, you know, circumstantially connecting the dots

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Speaker 1: showing that you know obviously that they knew where the

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Speaker 1: bodies were, they knew the children were missing. You just

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Speaker 1: brought up a really good point because Joseph Marone, if

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Speaker 1: my husband called me and said the cops are here,

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Speaker 1: they're searching the house, I go, what why are they

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Speaker 1: in the house? What's going on right? Or what did

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Speaker 1: you do? You don't never even ask why are the

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Speaker 1: cops at the house? Never? They never do you remember

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Speaker 1: the show What's It Cops? Yeah, that was the name

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Speaker 1: of the show, And there'd be a guy sitting there

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Speaker 1: in his easy cha are having a beer watching TV

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Speaker 1: and the cops come running through and he just keeps

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Speaker 1: watching TV. It's like, hey, guy, there's cops right in

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Speaker 1: your house? Or does that bother you? And in this case,

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Speaker 1: they never say I don't know why they're here? Why

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Speaker 1: are they? Because they know why the cops are there.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen now to more of the jailhouse secretly

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Speaker 1: recorded phone calls. Have you cop come hiding so he

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Speaker 1: knows what they're doing? Yeah, good Sokay, call it from

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Speaker 1: somebody else? And sometimes I've loved you so much? Hello?

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Speaker 1: You trying to call you later? Um? I don't, I

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Speaker 1: don't know? Y Yeah, okay, I love you anyone? Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: ive you? You know what again? Do you? Doctor Angela Arnold?

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Speaker 1: I'm just to Jada. It's a trial lawyer. Okay, what

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Speaker 1: in the h E double l are they talking about,

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Speaker 1: doctor Angela? I love you? I love you? Can I

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Speaker 1: call you later? As they're digging up my children's dead bodies? Well?

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Speaker 1: What world are they living? In? Their own world? Their

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Speaker 1: own world that they have created. Okay, But what struck

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Speaker 1: me when I listened to that phone call was the

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Speaker 1: change in her voice when she talked to him. She

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Speaker 1: became very childlike. Heard that. I heard that too, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't know the right words to describe it. She

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Speaker 1: became very childlike, and it's almost as if he has

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Speaker 1: all of this control over her. And then she's trying

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Speaker 1: to she's trying to comfort him, but it was mainly

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Speaker 1: that child like feeling that her voice that went into okay,

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Speaker 1: because I've heard other things that Lori Ballo has said,

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Speaker 1: and she can become very mean and nasty over the

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Speaker 1: phone when she's confronted, can't she? But was It's almost

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Speaker 1: like his little girl, isn't she? I think that that

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Speaker 1: phone call, there's going to be a lot about their

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Speaker 1: relationship that can be that can be piped through and

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Speaker 1: found out through just how they connected with each other

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Speaker 1: over I really don't give a flying fig about their relationship.

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Speaker 1: And if she jumps up in court and tries to

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Speaker 1: say she was brainwashed, over my cold dead body. But guys,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, let's bring it all home. I want

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Speaker 1: you to hear what was found on the scene. A

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Speaker 1: melted green bucket, was something damning inside of it? Roller Jackie.

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Speaker 1: Were there any other identifying features of that in that

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Speaker 1: area or as part of that mass that prew your attention? Yes?

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Speaker 1: There was? What was it? There was a melted green

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Speaker 1: bucket that it appeared that the the burnt flesh had

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Speaker 1: been placed in under the bucket was a partial human

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Speaker 1: skull and were was that bucket? And the what you've

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Speaker 1: just described as a partial human skull? Were those also?

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Speaker 1: Did you observe what was done with those? Yes? What

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Speaker 1: was done with those? They were also placed into a

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Speaker 1: bag in place in the Corners Vehicle crime stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Were there any other identifying features of that

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Speaker 1: in that area or as part of that mass that

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Speaker 1: prew your attention? Yes? There was? What was it? There

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Speaker 1: was a melted green bucket that it appeared that the

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Speaker 1: the burnt flesh had been placed in under the bucket

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Speaker 1: was a partial human skull? And were was that bucket?

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Speaker 1: And the what you've just described as a partial human skull?

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Speaker 1: Were those also? Did you observe what was done with those? Yes?

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Speaker 1: What was done with those? They were also placed into

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Speaker 1: a bag and placed in the Corners vehicle. Did you

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Speaker 1: hear that we are talking about a newly discovered evidence

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Speaker 1: in the search for JJ entirely the children I've called

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Speaker 1: mom Lorie Valo dead? Did you know this a melted

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Speaker 1: green bucket? That means they tried to burn it full

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Speaker 1: of human burnt flesh? You think I take joy in

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Speaker 1: saying that. I remember the first time I stood in

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Speaker 1: front of a jury and I had to recount the

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Speaker 1: facts surrounding a murder case, and it was a bad one.

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Speaker 1: I could hardly say it without tears coming to my eyes.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to cry in front of a jury.

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Speaker 1: But think about it. This is a seven year old

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Speaker 1: little boy and a teen girl his sister, and copsified

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Speaker 1: a melted green plastic bucket, I assumed plastic full of

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Speaker 1: burnt human flesh of these children, and part of a

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Speaker 1: human skull under the bucket. Just let that soak in

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Speaker 1: for a moment. Every time I have one of a

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Speaker 1: case about children, I think about my own children. Burnt

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Speaker 1: human flesh and a child's skull, and these two are

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Speaker 1: are the phone going. I love you too. Jennifer Shn,

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Speaker 1: a renowned forensic pathologists joining US former San Diego Police

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Speaker 1: Department crime Lab director. You know that's not easy, Jennifer.

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Speaker 1: It's hard enough being a trial lawyer in the criminal

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Speaker 1: business surrounded by a bunch of felons and male defense attorneys.

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Speaker 1: That's not fun. No offense Schweitzer and Marown. But I

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Speaker 1: can only imagine in your line of business, how you

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Speaker 1: made it to the top of crime lab director. My

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Speaker 1: hat's off to you. That's a whole other can of worms.

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Speaker 1: Jennifer sen How can you tell what what does burnt

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Speaker 1: human flesh even look like? Because these photos are going

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Speaker 1: to be showed to a jury, what does it look like?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's listening to your description of the bodies,

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Speaker 1: it's just, you know, it's heart wrenching. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I've been to many many crimp scenes in my in

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Speaker 1: my time, and you know, it's it's difficult to explain

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Speaker 1: what it's like to be standing in front of a

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Speaker 1: dead body. I was very worried about the first time

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Speaker 1: I did it, and you know, really there's something less,

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Speaker 1: there's something left in the body when someone said there's

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Speaker 1: nothing left there. And so you can handle that by

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Speaker 1: just sort of working the case and trying to come

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Speaker 1: up with things and information that will help solve the crime.

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Speaker 1: But when you deal with something like this, it's the

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Speaker 1: combination of the horrificness of the condition of the body

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Speaker 1: and you know, looking at a burnt body, first of all,

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Speaker 1: the smell is just so intense and terrifyingly awful, but

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Speaker 1: just knowing the actions that occurred to create the situation

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Speaker 1: in front of you, it's it's almost more than the

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Speaker 1: average person can take. And I think you probably have

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Speaker 1: some pretty strong reactions by the cops at the scene

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Speaker 1: when they found bodies, because it's just it's horrifying, and

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Speaker 1: when you know that these were children, it's worse. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just worse. I don't know why, but I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to take you. I've been on murder scenes where cops

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Speaker 1: actually threw up, especially rookies. Yeah, it's just horrifying. But

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Speaker 1: it's so much a matensory trying to figure out what

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Speaker 1: does burnt human flesh look like? Because I've tried a

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Speaker 1: lot of cases, including arson murder, but I've never seen

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Speaker 1: just flesh, burnt human flesh. I know that Tiley was

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Speaker 1: dismist and bird, so I don't know if this has

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Speaker 1: to do with Tyley or JJ, but I also know

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Speaker 1: that burned human flesh it's an awful, acrid odor. There's

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Speaker 1: there's nothing like it at all. It smells terrible. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever seen burnt human flesh, because I have not.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what that looks like. No, I have

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Speaker 1: to say I have been very fortunate not to have

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Speaker 1: a scene where I had a burned body. But you

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Speaker 1: are correct. The smell is overwhelming and it's un undeniable,

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Speaker 1: you know, exactly what it is when you need to

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Speaker 1: smell it, so it gets horrifying. We are talking about

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Speaker 1: what was found during the search while cult mom Laurie

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Speaker 1: Valo and her brand new jackets. The fourth husband right,

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Speaker 1: not judging, not judging, Uh, But what I don't like

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Speaker 1: about their marriage is that they planned their wedding and

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Speaker 1: she bought her wedding dress and ringing and I guess

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Speaker 1: after the Amazon order got there they had to get

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Speaker 1: rid of Tammy. Anyway, that's another story and another case

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Speaker 1: to be tried. But as these two are canoodling over

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Speaker 1: the gaelhouse phone, this is what is going down roller jack.

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Speaker 1: The emmy grabbed a small sharp instrument and cut down

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Speaker 1: the middle of the black plasticall and what did you observe?

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Speaker 1: I observed a small child in red pajamas, red pajama shirt,

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Speaker 1: red pajama pants, black socks that had the words Sketchers

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Speaker 1: in orange across the toes. Also observed a light and

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Speaker 1: blue blanket that had been placed on top of them. Okay,

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Speaker 1: were there when you observed what you perceived to be

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Speaker 1: a child, Where there was there anything that drew your attention? Yes?

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Speaker 1: And describe one of you described for the court. What

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Speaker 1: drew your attention the amount of duct tape that was

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Speaker 1: covering the body. That is significant in psychological terms. The

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Speaker 1: way that the bodies were hidden, the way that they

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Speaker 1: were basically hermetically sealed with duct tape. Doctor Angel Arnold

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Speaker 1: Remedy circle back to you on that. But I want

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Speaker 1: to go to crime online dot Com and investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: Dave Matt. You know what, Dave Mac. One of the

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Speaker 1: first things I always asked, not the first, but one

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Speaker 1: of the first, as you well know, because I've asked you,

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Speaker 1: was the body clothed? And if so, what was the

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Speaker 1: person wearing? Remember when Lacy Peterson's body was found what

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Speaker 1: was left of it in San Francisco Bay. She was

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Speaker 1: still wearing I believe, a maternity bra and I forgot

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Speaker 1: what else was on her body. That tells me a lot.

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Speaker 1: That tells me based on where she was last seen

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Speaker 1: in what she was wearing, maybe when she was killed,

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Speaker 1: when she was abducted. Now think back, Dave Mac, think

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Speaker 1: you use that noodle? Okay? The last time that JJ,

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Speaker 1: seven year old JJ is seen alive, According to someone

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Speaker 1: visiting the home, Alex Cox, Laurie Valo's a brother came

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Speaker 1: in the room and JJ was asleep. He was holding

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Speaker 1: him in this right in his pj's with a blank

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Speaker 1: it over him. The medical examiner says, and we have

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Speaker 1: now learned this in sworn testimony, that JJ's body was

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Speaker 1: still wearing the red pj's wrapped in a blanket, black socks.

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Speaker 1: That tells me exactly when JJ was killed, Dave Mack

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Speaker 1: and who had a hand in it, you know. Melanie

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Speaker 1: Gibb described it as a touching moment on September twenty second,

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Speaker 1: when Alex Cox was carrying of JJ because they thought

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Speaker 1: JJ was asleep. He had his head on Alex's shoulder

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Speaker 1: and it touched them because they thought, what a sweet

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Speaker 1: picture this is of an uncle carrying his nephew. And

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Speaker 1: JJ was wearing the red pajamas with the black socks,

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Speaker 1: his head on his uncle's shoulder. Now, we don't know

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Speaker 1: if he was asleep at that time because of this

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Speaker 1: what we discovered when they found his body. Crime stories

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00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:20,480
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, guys, we were talking about recently revealed

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Speaker 1: evidence including cult mom Laurie Valo with her hubby on

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Speaker 1: the phone having a session while day Belle's property is

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Speaker 1: being searched. The bodies of two of her children are found.

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Speaker 1: A green bucket, half melted, full of human flesh, a skull.

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Speaker 1: These are her children. And as this is happening, she's

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Speaker 1: canoodling with day Bell on the phone. Jackie, please go

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Speaker 1: to cut eleven and I want you to hear how

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Speaker 1: JJ's body was disposed. Where was that duct tape locating

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Speaker 1: on the head, arms, and feet? Okay, let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the head area. When when you look at the head,

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Speaker 1: what did you what did you observe there? The head

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Speaker 1: head a white plastic bag over the top of it.

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Speaker 1: It appeared to be a normal trash bag, had a

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Speaker 1: red draw string. Uh, it appeared to be the expandable

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Speaker 1: type of trash bag with the waffle style pattern on

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Speaker 1: top of the head. All right, you've mentioned duct tape there.

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Speaker 1: How where did you observe the duct tape? It was

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Speaker 1: duct tape that it was tightly wrapped around this way

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Speaker 1: tightly from his chin to his forehead area two. Jennifer Schen,

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Speaker 1: forensic pathologist, former San Diego PD crime Weab director. Jennifer,

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Speaker 1: the clothing on a body is very very important. How

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Speaker 1: do you explain to me? How do you go about

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Speaker 1: preserving everything. For instance, you get a body and it's

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Speaker 1: wrapped like a mummy and duct tape, how do you

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Speaker 1: preserve that duct tape? Because that's a great source of fingerprints.

424
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure Joseph Marona of Philadelphia is shuddering thinking of

425
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: his clients. Fingerprints on duct tape. Can't really hide that,

426
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: and Donald Schweitz or detective, it tells me a lot

427
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: about how the bodies were sealed, so to speak. But Jennifer,

428
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: how do you preserve that? And what do you do

429
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: with the clothes? How do you preserve them for touch

430
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: DNA or fibers or hair the killer may have deposited

431
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: on there, because I guarantee, Jennifer, what calt Mom and

432
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: Dave Bella going to do is try to blame Alex Cox.

433
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: That's going to be the scapegoat, as if they need

434
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: nothing about it. And I can't wait to hear them

435
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: explain how the bodies ended up in his pet cemeterial

436
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: on his farm. But Jennifer shin, how do you go

437
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: about preserving the duct type, the clothes, the fibers, the DNA.

438
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's a pretty complex process because you

439
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: have so many layers it's you know, it's always really

440
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: good news for investigators that there are there's a couple

441
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: layers of plastic bags, there's duct tape, there's clothing and

442
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: whatever else they might find in that you know, makeshift

443
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: grave site. So it has to be done carefully. Everything

444
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: has to be photographs and documented and then you just

445
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: go from the outer layer in the clothing will have

446
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: to likely be dried out so all the body fluids

447
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: are dry. What do you mean it has to be

448
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: dried out? How do you do that? We have special

449
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: hoods and things in the laboratory where if you have

450
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: bloody clothing or clothing that's been involved on a body

451
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: of the dcompassion of any kind, all of that has

452
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: to be dried out so that all the body fluids

453
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: become completely dry before they can be handled by anyone.

454
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: So they had the condition of the body. There are

455
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: some things that have to be done just to make

456
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: make the evidence handleable by as scientists. And the duct tape,

457
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of things you can do

458
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: you want to really preserve the end. Let me understand something.

459
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: You dry you dry the items in a fridge. It's

460
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: a it's a hood. So it's a it's a big

461
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: like a big square box where all of the all

462
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: of the air flow is contained in a ducting system

463
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 1: so that that the evidence can lay out and dry

464
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: out while all of the you know, all of the

465
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,719
Speaker 1: smell and the futurefcation smell is captured in a ducting system.

466
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: So it's just a matter of well, what do you

467
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: call that box? It's not a fridge, And I thought

468
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 1: you were saying fridge. What is it a hood? A

469
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: fume hood hood cood? But and what was the word

470
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: before that? Did you say flumed? Hume? F gotcha? Okay,

471
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: all right, so, m once everything has been in a

472
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: situation that's dry, then you're going to look for that evidence.

473
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: So in the duct tape in particular, you're right fingerprints,

474
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 1: you can get touched DNA. Sometimes if you're very Latin,

475
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: you can connect the ends of the duct tape back

476
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: to a specific role of duct tape. Same with plastic bags.

477
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: You're really trying to take anything that's in that grade

478
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: site and connect it back to the person that puts

479
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 1: the body in the grade site. So it's just a

480
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: very complex process because there's so much of it and

481
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: it has to be handled very carefully. You think, I

482
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: don't want to lose fibers and hairs, et cetera. It's

483
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: um it will take them quite a while to go

484
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: through all of that evidence. You brought up something really interesting.

485
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: Just then the duct type you know to you Donald

486
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: Schwitzer or a former LA detective as we saw again,

487
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: I'll you see taught Mom Casey Anthony case a trash

488
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: bag or duct tape. Both of them can be traced

489
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: to a specific type, like let's just pretend scotch tape

490
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: and it can be trace back if it's done properly

491
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: and timely to the manufacturer, the batch, the batch of

492
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 1: duct tape, and where that batch was sold. Let's just

493
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: say three twenty five let's boxes of duct tape were

494
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: sent to Rexburg. Let's just go with that, and you

495
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 1: can identify which stores that batch was sent to. Then

496
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: you go to the stores and you start pulling their

497
00:35:55,320 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: video so you can find when the purp bought the tape. Then,

498
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: if you got any brains at all, as they did

499
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 1: and taught Mom case you go to the home and

500
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: you look from matching duct tape or matching trash bags

501
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: to show that's who owned the duct tape or the

502
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,959
Speaker 1: trash bags. I don't know, because it took so meant,

503
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: so many months to get this case going, whether they

504
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: did that, but how does that work? How can we

505
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: trace the duct tape back to its origin Fromancy? First

506
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: of all, I think these folks aught to hire you

507
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: as a consultant here. That was a brilliant investigation analysis,

508
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: something I didn't even think about. Quite frankly, how do

509
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: they are? You just described it? I mean, that's exactly

510
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: how it would be done, you know, and this case

511
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: is very, very complicated, so evidence like that would be

512
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: very very useful. I think that, you know, when all

513
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 1: these pieces are put together, they the puzzle is going

514
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 1: to point to Lord and Chat, but it's going to

515
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: take efforts like that. Well, well, what are you all like?

516
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: Do you right in them over to January? On a

517
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: first main basis? With Lori and Chad? Well, you know what,

518
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: I'm betting names so Vello and Dabo. Okay, I'll call

519
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: him their last names. That makes me feel a little

520
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: bit better. I got other names for them, but I

521
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: won't do that into a show. Uh. You know, I

522
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,720
Speaker 1: think that it's very complicated, and that is a brilliant

523
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: way to tie it back. You know, there is going

524
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: to be an argument that, you know, the brother in law,

525
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: Alex Cox, was the bad guy, and you know he

526
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: put the bodies in the backyard. But when you look

527
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: at all the evidence that we'd know about so far,

528
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: lying to authorities, asking others to lie, you know, uh,

529
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: mutilated bodies, the phone calls. I mean, it's it's pretty

530
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: damning that there are at the very least accessories to

531
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: the crime. The question is did they actually do the

532
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: murders or were they just covering up efforts? But it

533
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 1: really doesn't matter because of the timeline that I think

534
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: is involved in this case. Thai profile defense attorney out

535
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: of Philadelphia, Joseph Marone Marone Law dot Joseph. I don't

536
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: know if you've ever dealt with fiber evidence, but I

537
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: was really blessed to have worked at a high volume

538
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 1: crime jurisdiction Inner City Atlanta, And I know you remember

539
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: the Atlanta murders of young men and young boys by

540
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: Wayne Williams PS. I think that a lot of those

541
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,919
Speaker 1: victims were lumped into Wayne Williams. I think he killed

542
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: plenty of them, but at a certain point they were

543
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: just lumping in every black mail that was found in

544
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: the water with Wayne Williams. He may have done them all,

545
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: but I'm not totally sure about that. I know he

546
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: did several. But you know what they did for the

547
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: first time in the country, they used fiber evidence. In

548
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 1: other words, based on what Jennifer Sheen just told us,

549
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: you preserve the evidence on the body, and they could

550
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: find fibers. So like, whoa where did these come from

551
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: the back of Wayne Williams car and his trunk and

552
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: his apartment. His home had a unique shag carpet and

553
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,240
Speaker 1: it was traced back to the home and the car.

554
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: So here even though Alex Cox was living I think

555
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: in the same apartment complex as Laurie Vallo. I wonder

556
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: if they could get fiber evidence off the bodies, they

557
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: had to be killed somewhere. What about it, Joseph Morone?

558
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: What about it is they haven't been charged with murder,

559
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: and they've been kind of examining this case. Play stop it.

560
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 1: But listen, they haven't brought the charges. You know, the

561
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: state that they want these people bad, they would have

562
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: brought these murder charges already, but they don't have the

563
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: the the evidence of forensics evidence to connect either either

564
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: Laurie or Chats probably had can get you out and

565
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 1: back in the middle of the road. Fiber evidence, fiber evidence,

566
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: but you can rest. You can rest ashore that Alex's

567
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 1: DNA is all over those bodies. They even have digital

568
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: forensics evidence of Alex being at the property to day

569
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:03,760
Speaker 1: those kids went missing. It's all over evidence. Murder. Whose property,

570
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 1: Alice Cox? Was it? Whose property? It was Chad's problem,

571
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: Chad Day's property. I knew about it. The closest thing

572
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: they got to Chad known about it is the phone

573
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 1: call that he had with his with his girlfriend that

574
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: day where he didn't show this bass. I don't know

575
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 1: if you've got that technical legal term up in Philly,

576
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: but I know it very well when I smell it,

577
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: because Chad Daybille was starting a fire at a bally.

578
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: Chad and Laurie are horrible people. Killer. State wants to

579
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: charge them with murder yesterday and they haven't been able

580
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 1: to do it yet. That's a problem. That is a problem. Okay,

581
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: you got me out of the barrel this time, but

582
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: not for long. We wait as justice unfalls, and I

583
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: pray to God that Chad at Daybelle and Laurie Valo

584
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: keep canoodling over the phone, so I and a jury

585
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: can hear it. Good life,