WEBVTT - How Canary Wharf Is Adjusting to a Work-From-Home World 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.880 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:10.920 Frontine. Have you been to Canari Wolf recent? 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:15.040 I have. I have lunches. I don't know about para leges, 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:17.159 but I do have lunches. Funny thing. 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:19.360 The funny thing is I actually go there with my 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:21.880 kids and for my kids because there'll be some sailing 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.840 canoeing thing there. It's a different thing, it is, really, 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.120 it is a very different thing. It's no longer the cliche, 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.000 if that's the right word of my twenties, which was 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:32.920 it's it's money money, money sits. 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:35.000 See, it's funny because for me it hasn't changed at all. 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:37.479 It's for me it's a real still office, real estate 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:39.519 kind of environment because there are a lot of suits. 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:43.000 Everybody works really fast and the restaurants are like busy. 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:45.560 But you know, you can see it's it's bankers basically. 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.680 But you know, the story about the Canary Wolf has changed, 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:49.400 hasn't in the last few years from being the real 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:51.440 rival to hear in the city to know is it 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.400 in trouble or the banks giving up on it? Coming 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:56.360 back to the fold and the square. Oh, that's been 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.960 the story that we've been reading about. And as that's happened, 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.280 and there's been a need for to transform itself into 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:04.759 more residential place, more of a destination in the city. 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:06.280 And is that for real? 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:11.800 Welcome to the City of London, the City of the 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:13.840 City of the City of London. 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.840 The Bank, pase mind, the gap between the tree and 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:20.400 the platform. 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:27.880 The financial hearts of the country, the city, the City. 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:29.880 Welcome to in the City. 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:34.440 Stand clear of the doors. 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:37.040 Welcome to in the City. A podcast from Bloomberg about 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:40.000 the story is important to the City of London this week? 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:42.480 What are office estates going to do if there's no 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:43.360 back to the office? 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:46.800 I'm Francis Laqua, I'm David Merritt, and I'm Alecri Stratton. 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.120 And joining us on the show is Shoby Khan, chief 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.640 executive Officer of Canary Wharf Group, who has worked in 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.360 real estate for more than thirty years. Shelby, thank you 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:57.000 so much for joining us. When you think of Canary Wharf, like, 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.840 what's your dream template for what this neighborhood in London becomes, 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:02.800 It's always been like suits and ties. 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.760 Yeah, appreciate you. Thank you for having me. I think 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:08.200 up it's the story of the evolution of Canary Wharf. 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:10.880 I say, we're on Canary Wharf three point zero, and 0:02:10.919 --> 0:02:13.200 what I mean by that is that most folks in 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:15.320 the London business community know was Canary Wharf when it 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:17.800 started thirty six years ago. It was a financial center, 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:22.200 got amazing financial occupiers to come. The infrastructure started, and 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.400 then nine years ago we started with Canary Wharf two 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:27.480 point zero where we started building residential and that really 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.200 didn't come on to existence until twenty twenty and twenty 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.200 twenty one. I mentioned earlier that people are like, well, 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.560 we did this because of the pandemic. No, the whole 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.519 vision was to create a mixed use city, basically a 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:41.920 city within the city, and that started. The residential came 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.440 on like three years ago. Three point zero was Hey, 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:47.680 let's focus on biodiversity. Canary Wharf has an abundance of 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:50.320 water and canals and so we've already got sixteen acres 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.520 at park, so let's go long on biodiversity. Our partnership 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.880 with the Eaton Project, with the Eaton doc opening up 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:58.640 twos amenities you mentioned earlier. You can go swimming, you 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:02.680 can play a paddle, you can go karts, go boats, 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:04.800 all that kind of stuff. There's tons of amanages there 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.440 because whether you live there, whether you work there, whether 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.400 you play. There's something for everybody. And finally it was 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:14.119 to attract more occupiers because we are super well connected 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:17.040 and so we were only fifty five percent financial. You know, 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:19.359 people look at the skyline and go, it's all the bankers. 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.520 But we've evolved into a government hub. We've got life 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.959 sciences now, we've got tech. Revolute is keeping its European 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:29.200 World headquarters there, and so it's evolved into basically a 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.840 city within a city, and that city in the city 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.720 is basically the blueprint of how the urban environment and 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:37.840 nature works for the benefit of humanity. 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.520 We're sitting in the city of London, the historic financial 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.640 center of Britain, and I remember when Canario Wolf sprang up. 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.200 It was very much a rivalry, wasn't it. This was 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.800 the alternative rents were cheaper. Banks are relocating from around 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.840 where we're sitting now to set up shop over there. 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:55.600 Do you see it as a rival still to the 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.440 traditional city or is it evolving into something quite different 0:03:58.520 --> 0:03:59.200 or complimentary. 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:00.880 I actually meant it to the government. We're trying to 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:03.640 grow the pie you want to make the UK, London, 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:07.800 especially the leading center in innovation and whether it be 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:11.320 in tech or life sciences, and so they coexist. And 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:13.600 I think what we're trying to do is play to 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:16.240 our strengths and our strengths or the environment in terms 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.840 of accessing the canals and accessing the parks and then 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.200 having everything at your doorstep. We have eight grocery stores 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:27.400 eight right, so it has really become a neighborhood on 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:29.400 its own. And when you look at within one mile 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.480 of Canary Wharf, there's about one hundred and fifty thousand people. 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:34.920 That's as big as Cambridge or Oxford in terms of 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:35.560 that scale. 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.239 What's your hardest job? Is it attracting hoodies instead of suits? 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.919 Does that make a difference? Like how do people choose 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:43.840 where they want to live? 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.480 I think it's mestereli. It's not about the space, it's 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:50.520 about the place. So everyone will be going to a sustainable, 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.280 green building, right, So you're going to want the best space. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:55.680 But in addition to that, you want place and so 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:58.400 convenience for employees, whether they want to go to the 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:00.840 doctor or go to the dentist, having the ability to 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.160 go to health clubs, having the ability to eat out 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:06.600 at nice restaurants. It's that whole environment, having areas where 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:08.279 you can go have a cup of coffee on the water, 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.160 being able to swim at your lunchtime, or play paddle. 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:14.480 It's having that whole ecosystem so that no matter what 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.240 you like or prefer, there's an option for you. 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:19.839 I think I've seen some plans for how you would 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:23.039 renovate that central tower and it's fascinating because it's so 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.479 deep as a tower, isn't it that there's no natural 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:27.839 light in the center. So the architects have had to 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.680 do quite interesting things around creating deep terraces and so 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:33.600 on to get as much light into this thing. And 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.280 just talk to our listeners personally, I found it. 0:05:36.240 --> 0:05:38.719 Amazed as the old HSBC welding, which is basically like 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:39.760 what block it's a. 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.839 Block deep, and again it was built in the early 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:48.440 two thousands. Elizabeth Line didn't exist, so that whole connectivity 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.159 it's really important. It's that basically you have to change 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:54.040 the entrance of that building because it basically dumps out 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:56.640 in the Elizabeth Line, right, So you come out of 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.440 the Elizabeth Line, you could be in that property within 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:03.200 literally thirty seconds. So changing that whole access in the 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.080 footprint and its streetscape of how it interacts with the 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:08.920 Elizabeth Line, and then well it's got Canada Square Park 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.760 on the other side, so again connectivity to green spaces 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.360 and all that stuff. And then as it relates to 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:16.760 the bottom, one of the things that we're doing is 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:20.160 adding more cultural uses. And so shortly fingers cross, we're 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:21.760 going to be announcing a theater is going to be 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.960 coming to Canary Wharf, that we'll be playing eight shows weekly, 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.799 bringing thousands of people additionally for theater and so forth, 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:29.960 we potentially can bring a theater at the bottom of 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.760 the base of those big floor plates at the bottom. 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.600 And then again, if you go to Manhattan, if you've 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.680 been one Vendor built or Hudson Yards or in Pire 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:42.719 State Building, there's no real true experience of being on 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.320 a rooftop in London with the outdoor. So the analogy 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.039 is what's happening in Canada in that one property is 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.320 happening across Canary Wharf in terms of making it a 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.159 mixed uice environment not only within one building, but within 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:55.479 the entire one hundred and thirty acres. 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.120 I think it's so interesting about this cultural angler as well. 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:00.599 I didn't realize you're building a fit today thinking about 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.640 in Manhattan, where you have now the parlymer Narts Center 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.919 right next to the New World Trade Center, or in 0:07:06.960 --> 0:07:09.279 Hudson Yards, which I guess is like a Canary Wharf 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.920 style development in Manhattan. You've got the shed. You know, 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.600 this idea that you you set up culture institutions in 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.640 that creates ecosystem. I remember when Canary Wharf first started. 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.520 I don't think anyone there would have thought of going 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:23.600 to the theater over in the area. 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.960 It was very much or going sailing or going down doing. 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.440 But I mean I love a cultural you know, I 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:31.960 gon next to me, but you actually moved to be 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.720 closer to schools at some point, right, That's what everybody 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.760 does in the UK, and New York is smaller. So 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:39.880 if you're like one of the higher owners with a 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:43.240 family and you're a Canary Wharf, you're a little bit stuck. 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:46.040 We just opened Mulberry Academy School and would work this 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.600 past September, so we've got an academy school that is 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:50.960 just open now. I think to your point, Canary Wharf 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.920 is very unique in that we have scale. We have 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:55.680 one hundred and thirty acres and so we don't know 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:58.760 all the assets right. So you've got JP Morgan City 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.360 Bank on their buildings, oak trees, there a blackstone. You've 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.640 got lots of different owners, but we get to curate 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.760 that entire estate and that curation allows us to do 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:07.880 lots of different things. 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.000 Is it going to plan or is it harder than 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:10.320 you thought? 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:13.680 I think planning is much more difficult in the UK 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:15.560 than is in the US. And the US you particularly have 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:17.800 zoning and allows us to get on with you know, 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:21.000 with the density and the uses. It's much much harder here. 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:24.440 You have to do so much pre application and vetting 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.360 with the local jurisdictions and so you know, we've been 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:28.320 involved in Tower Hamlets, we've been involved in land, but 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:31.160 we've bobbed in the city. Each jurisdiction is owned. But 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:34.080 the planning requirements and the timeline it takes to get 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.600 stuff developed is extremely. 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.680 Long, and successive governments have talked about trying to unblock 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.240 the pipes on that. Do you have any optimism that 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.320 the Labor government are going to actually remove some of 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.440 that perceived red type. 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.840 Of cautiously optimistic. I think everyone in the first step 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:50.960 is they acknowledge that there's a problem, and now the 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:52.959 question is how to solve it and how to get 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.240 you know, some central government involvement with the local jurisdictions 0:08:56.280 --> 0:09:00.720 to make it a little bit more efficient but spritly needed. 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:02.520 And I think you know, we're one of the biggest 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:05.559 builders of housing in terms of rental housing that we're 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.040 trying to build in again in Canary Wharf. We're building 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:12.280 different price points, so luxury, mid market, entry level, even 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.280 affordable and intermediate housing. And to be able to do that, 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.040 to taking market risk for four or five years is 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:18.760 very difficult. 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.040 He told to us about the phenomenon of working from 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:24.520 home WFH. It sounds like, you know, to people, to 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:31.839 people from home, is that to people listening? What is 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.120 your analysis of, you know, the footfall of workers. 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:37.520 Yeah, that's a great question. So let me step back 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:41.600 in the residential population. Only thirty percent of our residents 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.600 live and work at Canary Wharf, so we really established 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.960 a neighborhood, right, so all the housing that we're doing 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.960 that people are living there are going elsewhere, so whether 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:54.360 it be to Stratford or to Westminster, et cetera. Like that. 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:56.880 Because of the Elizabeth Line, the Jubilee and the DLR 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.600 are getting new trains again. Those three newest activities are 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:05.520 all through Canary Wharf. I think you know you've seen 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:07.600 all these different companies now annow it's how they're trying 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:11.200 to get people back to the office. It's been proven, ironically, 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.800 both for being in the office and about being around 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:18.400 blue and green green spaces. Your creativity increases your innovation creations. 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:21.120 It takes much longer to get stuff done if you've 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.680 got people in the office and remotely. Companies are realizing that, 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.839 and I'd be ironic. Someone should do the study of 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:31.640 who's profitable and whose earnings are growing versus their culture 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:32.880 of who's in the office and who's not. 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.439 I would love to see, I think right done it. 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:41.000 We've done the study of We've done the study. We've 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:44.920 done the study of the whole innovations in collaboration about 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.520 being around blue spaces and green spaces, right, and that's 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:50.760 been proven. To your point about our traffic, last year, 0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:53.480 we had sixty seven million people going through our retail centers, 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:56.240 highest ever. Retail sales are the highest ever at Canary 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.160 WARF's history. This year we're seven and a half percent 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:01.480 higher than the last year record We're going to be 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:05.280 over seventy million visitors this year through our retail centers. 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.240 So that just shows you the power of people not 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.680 only coming back, but then the neighborhood that's emerging and 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.240 now is becoming a destination in its own right in 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.560 terms of all the amenities and restaurants that we've got. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.520 But are you finding that your companies there are feeling 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.360 under pressure to put on or to brag about and 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.280 to say, there's all these amenities here and come back 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.120 not just because you work here, but also because we're 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:29.920 going to put on this event, or there's going to 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:32.439 be this social gathering, or there's going to be this 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.120 you know, gym that you can go into your lunch hour. 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:36.240 How much a company's feeling that they have to offer 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:37.959 that sort of incentive, I. 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.880 Think it all was on. Every company's culture is different 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:43.520 and they're all approaching it differently in how they're trying to, 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.920 you know, empower and engage their workforce, and so I 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.199 think it's a company by a company decision. I think 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.880 we're very fortunate that we've got some companies that are 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:53.240 at the leading edge of that in terms of like 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:55.679 JP Morgan Morgan Stanley City Bank that are doing that. 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.760 Barkley's even in fact, so I think we're beneficiars of that. 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.679 But I think that's my case about the profitability. It's 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.400 really culture by culture of what each company is kind 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:05.640 of promoting to its workforce. 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:08.200 I mean, you're building a massive new space, a one 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:11.000 hundred and twenty thousand square feet without knowing who the 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.400 tenants are. Wo'd be your dream tenant? Is there a 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:17.960 company that's particularly you know, fun, attractive, sexy that you 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.240 think will attract more residents or workers there. 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:22.560 We've bought a new building unfortunately. 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.240 I mean, our building is pretty cool. 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.640 It is. It's not actually one company. It's basically an 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.760 ecosystem because given that scale of that building, the idea 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:35.079 is to bring in in incubators. So that we've already 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.240 done that it would work. We've a lot of launched 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.320 forty thousand square feet of wet lab space eighteen months 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.640 ago and that's full of currenting these small incubators that 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:45.440 are on their Series A and Series B round and 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.160 incubating where they'll take you know, a couple of deaths 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.760 to two thousand square feet. So that's one section of it. 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.480 The next section would be you know, those mid market 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.200 companies that have gotten past that and growing stage, and 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.520 then the last would be the big pharmaceuticals and so forth. 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:01.040 So what we're trying to do is create a vertical 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:04.959 campus so to speak, that not only has the benefit 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:07.040 of the great labs that will be that are in 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.280 short demand, but then again the placemaking that think about it. 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.560 If you're a company that's coming into London, can there 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.200 a work group can provide housing for your workforce, We 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.760 can provide the hotels, we can provide events space. We 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:20.880 as a company can curate all of that to help 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.400 them come in and have their business up and running. 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:25.920 Is there a name you know? Is it an Apple 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:28.280 Google that you think? You know, if they take a 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.600 large chunk of that space, then it will have that 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:33.160 wow fact or that cool factor. 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:34.599 I think, Well, you know, we'll target some of the 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:36.920 big pharmaceuticals that will want to have a big presence 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.800 here is tart inter my analogy of the three ecosystems, 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:43.320 that pharmaceutical company would be that third thing of being 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:45.360 to have a major pharmaceutical that would come in here, 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.640 and again we would provide the full suite of services 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:49.080 for that. 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:52.040 That sort of incubator style ecosystem you described, and that's 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:57.160 obviously contingent on a healthy startup scene and an indicator 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.920 of a healthy economy. I mean, we're getting some slightly 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.640 worrying numbers now about business confidence here. You know, the 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:06.360 labor government been criticized maybe talking down the prospects of Britain. 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.040 You're kind of at the front line of seeing this, right, 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.280 if you're seeing tenants coming in, what's your sense of 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.840 that part of the economy, the entrepreneurship, the startups? Are 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.240 you optimistic? Are you're waiting for the budget? Like what 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:19.720 is what are the vibes? 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:21.560 I think everybody's waiting for the budget, so we'll kind 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.320 of see what that is. But I think again in 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:25.200 this kind of like did you know did you know 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.920 that Level thirty nine existed Canary Wharf? Are you guys 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:28.560 familiar with that? 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:28.960 So? 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.720 Level thirty nine was a tech incubator that started ten 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:34.920 years ago. Okay, right, Revolute came out of that when 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:36.400 we started with a couple of desks, and now I 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.240 think they're probably Europe's or at least the UK's largest 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:43.120 private company. So we've got a community about one hundred 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.040 and eighty companies there. It's full. We've got two floors. 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.680 We're actually thinking of expanding to the third floor now. 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.640 And what we did for the tech community initially fintech, 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.720 we expanded into cybersecurity, and now we're expanding into clean 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:56.840 tech and life science is where we've got now life 0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:01.000 science companies that are in there, so that ecosystem exists. Ironically, 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.040 right now, the UK is seen as a stability relative 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.280 to the rest of Europe, and I think the government 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:09.720 has a great opportunity now to you know, they're talking 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:13.040 about growth and so how do they incentivize companies to 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.680 invest and expand in the UK. They've got a great 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:17.280 opportunity now to make that happen. 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:19.560 Yeah, and we've got the Investment Summit coming up correctly 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.000 this month. If you're a startup, would you say, you know, 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.280 the options in someone like Paris, which is obviously made 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:28.920 a big play for some of these companies as well, 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:30.800 or Berlin or anyone else in Europe. Do you think 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.600 London looks still very attractive? Absolutely? 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:35.600 I mean I think, you know, this is one of 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:37.520 the reasons I came from the US to London. It 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:41.240 is a world class city. It's got unbelievable university's top 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.000 you know, ten universities here, the rule of law, of 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:48.760 the language, the time zone, the cultural of attraction of London. 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.760 It is a fantastic city and so everyone wants to 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.040 come to London, right And I think from the government's 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:55.720 point of view, just got to give them that little 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.560 bit more incentive. Because businesses have choices. They can go 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:02.080 to India, China, the US, the EU, Brazil, lots of 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.800 big economies are out there. But you've got all these advantages. 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.120 You just got to give them a little incentive to say, yeah, 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:08.360 it's great to be here. 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:13.680 So you also have two very generous owners Brickfield and 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.760 the Guitar Investment Authority invested some four hundred million pounds 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.440 in their long term commitment to Canary Wharf. Do you 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:23.760 worry about finances? You have a couple of bonds coming 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.040 up to maturity in April. Like there's always a problem 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:30.480 of timeline. What you set out to do needs to 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:32.440 be done to make sure that the finances work. Are 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.920 you comfortable with that that will work out? 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.400 Absolutely? And I think just to rewind of how this 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.640 happened is we had that retail portfolio. Do that maturity 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.280 came up in twenty twenty, so you got to rewind 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.239 twenty twenty. We were in the midst of the pandemic. 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:50.440 Everyone was running away from retail. No one wanted to 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.160 touch it with a ten foot poll, right, So we 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:53.800 went to the markets and we're able to go to 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:57.560 the corporate bond market. Fast forward. Now, retail is thriving. 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.440 As I mentioned, the statistics are ny is growing adically 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.960 and we've had incredible appetite from the from the lending community, 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.200 and so we think we can pretty successfully take the 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.440 bonds out refinanced them with our retail assets. 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:12.600 Interest rates are much higher they are they are, so 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:14.199 that's going to be Is it complicated? 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.080 It's that complicated. I think, well, you know the UH. 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:19.240 I think we've come off the lows in terms of 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.120 you know where real estate values, so I have been 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.600 interest races have started now to decrease, and I think 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:25.920 we're off the troughs and going up. I think it'll 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:27.520 just be a question of timing of when we can 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.320 get it, but you know, we'll meet the market. 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.240 The most important question is where's Dave taking us for luncheon? 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:37.560 Canary Wharf, what's the place he's got eighty choices. Don't 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:38.600 give them too many choices. 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.600 Just one ass me that and it's like my favorite child. 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:45.080 I can't, I can't afferciate, and I would I would 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:46.920 upset one of them if I said, anyone. 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.160 Come on, joby one, give us the two top. 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.040 I'll give you the two that have just recently opened. 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.120 So we've we've constantly been opening up restaurant after restaurants. 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.399 So Road just opened up, and wood Wharf and then 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:02.080 Marslene Varda, which opened on one of our floating pavilions. 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.119 Those two just open up in the last two months, 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:05.639 and they're outstanding. 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:15.199 You're taking notes. Thanks for listening to this week's In 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:17.680 the City from Bloomberg. This episode was hosted by me 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.119 Francin Laqwa, with David Merritt and Allegra Stratton. It was 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:25.440 produced by Summersai, production supports from Isabella Ward and Louren Tavner, 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.840 and sound designed by Moses and am Brendan Franz Newman 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.160 is our executive producer. Sage Baumann is head of Podcasts 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.600 Special Thanks to show by Kahan. Please subscribe, rate, and 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.160 review wherever you listen to podcasts.