1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, 2 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jovan Strickland. 3 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer with iHeart Podcasts. Send how the 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: tech are you? So? Initially I had planned to have 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: a brand new episode because we have so few left 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: before I hand the show over to new hosts. But unfortunately, 7 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 1: in the process of putting that show together, I had 8 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: multiple no this is ironic technological failures that have set 9 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: me back. So rather than go without an episode today, 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: I thought one thing we could do is revisit an 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: episode that published a couple of years ago about the 12 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: Artemis program. This is the program at NASA that it 13 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: aims to return astronauts to the surface of the Moon. 14 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: Now that particular program has recently it's been announced that 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: it's had some setbacks, some delays, not a big surprise. 16 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: There have been a lot of issues going on with 17 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 1: NASA and spacecraft in general, and so now the mission 18 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: that would send astronauts to do a flyby of the Moon, 19 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: they would pass behind the Moon and then come back 20 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,839 Speaker 1: to Earth. That is pushed back to twenty twenty six, 21 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: and hopefully we would once again have astronauts on the 22 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: Moon's surface by twenty twenty seven. Whether that happens or 23 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: not remains to be seen, but I thought perhaps it 24 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 1: would be a good idea to revisit this episode the 25 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: Artemis program and kind of reflect on the mission itself, 26 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: like why does the mission exist, what are its goals, 27 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: and what potentially could we gain from this, keeping in 28 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: mind that it's frequently impossible to predict what you could 29 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: gain because these missions come with them certain massive challenges 30 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: the engineers have to figure out how to solve, and 31 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: in the process of solving those challenges, we can sometimes 32 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: uncover the possibility for technologies that can benefit us in 33 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: other ways, not just in order to survive on the 34 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: Moon's surface, but do other stuff. And so it's really impossible, 35 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: I would argue, to anticipate what benefits we could see 36 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: beyond just the mission accomplished section of these sorts of things, 37 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: And in my mind, that's a great reason to pursue 38 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: these really challenging goals. Now, should we pursue the challenging 39 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: goal of going back to the Moon as opposed to 40 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: some other challenging goal. That's a different discussion, one that 41 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: I think is also worth having I don't think, you know, 42 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: it's a zero sum game necessarily, but ultimately we do 43 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,959 Speaker 1: have to start prioritizing what we're focusing on, what we're 44 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: dedicating resources to, and in the process we might come 45 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: to the conclusion that one pursuit is more worthy than another. 46 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: And we'll really see how that shakes out once the 47 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: new administration takes power here in the United States, and 48 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: whether or not we see a more aggressive approach toward 49 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: space exploration. I would certainly expect that to happen, considering 50 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: that Elon Musk, you know, he has a private space company, 51 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: and he's real buddy buddy with the President elect. So 52 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: if I had to wager, I would say that we'd 53 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: see a lot more space stuff in twenty twenty five. 54 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: But in the meantime, let's listen to this episode the 55 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: Artemis Program, and I'll talk to you again really soon. 56 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about space and NASA's most 57 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: recent program, intended to put American astronauts back on the 58 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: Moon and eventually to go beyond the Moon. But first 59 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: let's do a quick look back into the history of 60 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: the space program. So back in the early nineteen sixties, 61 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: the United States was in a fierce competition with the 62 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: then Soviet Union. The Soviets had shocked Americans upon the 63 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: launch of the satellite Sputnik that was the first man 64 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: made object launched into orbit around the Earth. Sputnik didn't 65 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: really do a whole lot other than send out a 66 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: little beep of a radio signal as it traveled miles 67 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: above the Earth's surface, but the implications of that launch 68 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: were enormous. First, the fact that the Soviets could launch 69 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: an object into orbit suggested that the USSR also had 70 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: the capability of launching, say, you know, a missile somewhere else, 71 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: like across the world at the United States. Coupled with 72 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: a nuclear warhead. That was a chilling thought. The US 73 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: and the USSR held a great deal of animosity for 74 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: each other, which is putting it lightly, or at least 75 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 1: the governments of those countries did, and each government supported 76 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: an awful lot of propaganda aimed at vilifying the other side. 77 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: As a child of the eighties, I remember a lot 78 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: of sort of anti Soviet, anti Russian kind of messaging 79 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: in pop culture and beyond well, anyway, the second part 80 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,720 Speaker 1: of this is that the world is a stage, as 81 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: Shakespeare once wrote, and on that stage, the Soviets were 82 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: poised to take on the role of most technologically and 83 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: scientifically advanced nation on the planet, and that was something 84 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: that the US government wasn't too keen on either, and 85 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: so there was a very strong incentive to give the 86 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: US space industry its own shot in the arm to 87 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: catch up and then ultimately to pass the Soviet space program. 88 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: The space race would showcase the best and worst of 89 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: human traits. Among the best were ingenuity, problem solving, collaboration, exploration, 90 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: and curiosity. Among the worst, you had pride, you had 91 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: boasting not to mention the fact that the finish line 92 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,799 Speaker 1: kept getting pushed back whenever one side would achieve something notable, 93 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: like you might say, oh, well, really, the real test 94 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 1: is to put the first person up in space, And 95 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: then the Soviets did that, and the Americans said, well, really, 96 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: the real test is docking two spacecraft in space together. 97 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: And then the Americans did that, and the Soviets said, well, really, 98 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: it's and so they kept pushing that back until finally 99 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: it got to the real goal isn't to put something 100 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: into orbit, but to get to the Moon, and that 101 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 1: was viewed as the ultimate goal. The ultimate finish line. Now, 102 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: I mean, for reals, a lot of the space race 103 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: was really just about moving those goal posts so that 104 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: one side could not easily declare victory and superiority over 105 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: the other side. And yes, it is more than a 106 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: little bit childish. It might remind you of kids playing 107 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: a game where they keep changing the rules whenever it 108 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: seems like they're losing. However, that childish desire is also 109 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: what helped drive and perhaps more importantly, fund the actual 110 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: engineering and science that would lead to some of the 111 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: greatest achievements in human history. These are achievements that would 112 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: spin off numerous beneficial technologies that we rely upon and 113 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: benefit from today. Anyway, in nineteen sixty three, the US 114 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: Space Agency NASA initiated a new program named Apollo, and 115 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: this was an official response to a promise that had 116 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: been made in nineteen sixty one by US President John F. Kennedy. 117 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: He announced a commitment to get astronauts to the Moon 118 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: by the end of that decade. Now, in Greek mythology, 119 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: Apollo is the son of Zeus. He's the god of 120 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: the arts, of poetry and of the Sun. The Apollo 121 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: missions saw several successful Moon landings, beginning with Apollo eleven 122 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: in July nineteen sixty nine and ending with Apollo seventeen 123 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: in December nineteen seventy two. The program also had its 124 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: share of tragedy. In nineteen sixty seven, three astronauts died 125 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: in a pre flight test when a fire broke out 126 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: in the cockpit of the command module. NASA would later 127 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: designate this mission, originally known as Apollo two oh four 128 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: Apollo one, in an effort to honor the three astronauts 129 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: who lost their lives in this accident. Apollo seventeen would 130 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: mark the last time a human would set foot on 131 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: the Moon, and that stands true up to the date 132 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: of this recording. No human has been back to the 133 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: Moon since December nineteen seventy two. And that's what brings 134 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: us to today's topic, because once again NASA and numerous 135 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: partnering companies and organizations are looking to send people back 136 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: to the Moon's surface. This time, the goal is to 137 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: include women astronauts in the project, something that just did 138 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:04,239 Speaker 1: happen back in the sixties and seventies. The new program 139 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: is called Artemis. Now, like Apollo, the name Artemis comes 140 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: to us from Greek mythology, she's actually Apollo's twin sister, 141 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: which makes sense. This is sort of the twin sister 142 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: project to Apollo. Now. Frankly, I would argue Artemis is 143 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: much better suited as a name for this project because 144 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: she's the goddess of the Moon. She's also the goddess 145 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 1: of the wilderness and hunting and other stuff. The Greek 146 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: gods were famous multitaskers. As goddess of the Moon, she 147 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: does have the perfect name for the NASA endeavor to 148 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: put people up there. She did not just spring into being, 149 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: either in mythology or in the space project. In space terms, 150 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: Artemis follows some earlier attempts to get astronauts back to 151 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: the Moon. She's sort of the evolution of some earlier 152 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: programs that have since been either canceled or just transformed. 153 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: So this means we need to look at a span 154 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: of time between the Apollo missions and the upcoming Artemis missions. 155 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: In the first decade of the twenty first century, NASA 156 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 1: announced a program called Constellation. The scope of Constellation was 157 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: pretty darned big. It laid out the many advances NASA 158 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: identified as being pivotal for the most extensive missions to 159 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: the Moon and beyond. It called for the retirement of 160 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: the Space Shuttle program. It was already on its way out. 161 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: And so the reason for that was that the Space 162 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: Shuttle program was limited in its ability. Really could only 163 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: go into orbit. It can't go to the Moon or beyond. 164 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: And also the Columbia disaster had brought up serious questions 165 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: about the viability of the Space Shuttle program. In general, 166 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 1: it was an aging fleet of spacecraft. So this particular 167 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: Constellation program laid out requirements for a new type of 168 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: spacecraft called Orion, also known as the Crew Exploration Vehicle, 169 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: and it's similar to the old Apollo capsules, but it's 170 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: actually larger and has a lot more features and could 171 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: support a crew of astronauts on a mission to the 172 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: Moon and back or extended trips to the International Space Station. 173 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: I'll talk more about the Orion in detail a little 174 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: bit later. So the Constellation program, in turn was a 175 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: response to a call from the US President, George W. Bush, 176 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: and he was asking NASA to really shoot for these goals. 177 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: He wanted something really aspirational and inspirational to kind of 178 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: get people excited about this. Presidents tend to do this, 179 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: by the way, when they need a kind of a 180 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: boost in their own popularity. It's great that we benefit 181 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: from it from a scientific perspective, but it does not 182 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: always come from a genuine desire to push science. Sometimes 183 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: that desire is more linked to the politics of the 184 00:11:55,960 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: situation than the actual scientific goal of the situation. And 185 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: in fact, there are plenty of people who argued that 186 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: this whole approach was not the right thing for NASA 187 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: to do, that putting people back on the Moon didn't 188 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: really solve any big issues or didn't open up any 189 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: other opportunities we had already been to the moon. People 190 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: were arguing that maybe we wouldn't be able to learn 191 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: anything new by going back to the Moon, that we 192 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: should instead dedicate our efforts toward other things. But the 193 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: Moon is one of those things that's easy to point 194 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: at and say that is a big challenge, how do 195 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: we get back there? And then you can worry about 196 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: the other stuff later on down the line. I think 197 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: that there is value going back to the moon. By 198 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: the way, I don't want to dismiss it out of hand, 199 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: but I can see the validity of arguments that state 200 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: maybe we should look at other goals instead. Goals that 201 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: might have a more obvious payout in either the benefits 202 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: we get from technological advancement or the direct result of 203 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: the missions themselves. So I could see both sides of 204 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: both arguments, and so I haven't I guess I haven't 205 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: really fully made up my mind of which side I 206 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: really subscribed to anyway, So we get this deadline set 207 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: for this idea of going back to the Moon. The vehicle, 208 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: the Orion spacecraft, was supposed to be ready by twenty fourteen, 209 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: and then you had the goal of actually getting people 210 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: back on the Moon by twenty twenty. It is twenty twenty, 211 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 1: and spoiler alert, that ain't gonna happen this year. NASA 212 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: Administrator Michael Griffin unveiled this plan in two thousand and five, 213 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: and that included a plan for two new rocket systems 214 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: that would provide the umph needed to get the Orion 215 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: spacecraft out into space on its way to the Moon 216 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 1: or the International Space Station. And those rockets were the 217 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: Ares one and the Ares five launch vehicles No. Two 218 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: and three just one in five, and they were or four, 219 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: I should say, but one in five were also meant 220 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: to kind of mirror the Saturn one and Saturn five 221 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: rockets that were used in previous NASA programs. ARES one 222 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: was the smaller of the two rockets. That one was 223 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: intended to launch payloads like the Orion spacecraft and its 224 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: crew into orbit. The ARES five would be a heavy 225 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: lifting rocket and it would be used to launch significance 226 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: amounts of a payload into space of cargo. So if 227 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: you wanted to create, say a Moon station, you know, 228 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: to actually build a station on the Moon, you would 229 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: use a series of ARES five rockets to launch those 230 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: payloads into space, and then presumably you would find a 231 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: way of getting them to the Moon for construction. So 232 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: it's not that different from models like SpaceX, where they 233 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: have the Falcon nine rocket or launch vehicle that can 234 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: send a capsule into space, or the Falcon nine heavy 235 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: which is meant to push much heavier payloads into space. 236 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: Developing the rockets would be another really big task on 237 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: top of building this Orion spacecraft, But this was a 238 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: thing that Griffin thought was necessary. Lunar missions are going 239 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: to require a lot of support systems in order to 240 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: make sure the astronauts can get to the Moon, they 241 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: can land there, they can operate on the Moon, and 242 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: then they can return from the Moon safely back to Earth. 243 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: That requires a lot of work. So, according to NASA estimates, 244 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: relying on older launch vehicles like the Delta or Atlas 245 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: rockets would require many more launches to get the required 246 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: equipment back into space. So that would drive up the 247 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: cost of the program. And Griffin was saying, well, it's 248 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: going to cost a huge amount of money to develop 249 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: new rockets, but it will cost another huge amount of 250 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: money if we rely on older rockets because we'll have 251 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: to use more of them. And so he was weighing 252 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: those two options and ultimately decided that it made more 253 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: sense to push for brand new launch systems. Now, spoiler alert, 254 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: this whole plan that was laid out in two thousand 255 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: and five did not pan out, at least not as 256 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: Constellation had laid it all out. We didn't have a 257 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: spacecraft ready in time, nor are we ready to put 258 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: anyone on the Moon this year. And one of the 259 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: main contributors to the shortfall was down to budget. The 260 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: original Apollo program had a budget of twenty five point 261 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: eight billion dollars from nineteen sixty to nineteen seventy three. 262 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: If we adjust that for inflation and look at it 263 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: in today's money, that would come out to about two 264 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: hundred sixty billion dollars, a truly princely sum. But that 265 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: was across the entire lifespan of the Apollo program, not 266 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: just one particular year. In nineteen sixty six, the peak 267 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: year the Apollo program. From a vedgetary perspective, the agency 268 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,399 Speaker 1: spent the equivalent of forty seven point eight billion dollars 269 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: in today's money, and that was just for the Apollo program. 270 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: So the budget for all of NASA in two thousand 271 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: and five, not just Constellation, but all the programs that 272 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: NASA oversees was fifteen point six billion dollars. That's a 273 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: lot less than forty seven point eight billion. Trust me, 274 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: I ran the math. Even adjusted for inflation, that comes 275 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: out to just under seventeen billion dollars. It is an 276 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: enormous amount less than what was spent in nineteen sixty six, 277 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: or the equivalent of what was spent in nineteen sixty six. 278 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: And yet Griffin was describing Constellation as Apollo on steroids. 279 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: So that got a lot of people asking, can you 280 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: really design Apollo on steroids if you're using a budget 281 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: that's less than half of what Apollos program spent in 282 00:17:55,359 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, So this was a question, and then 283 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: a lot of people were asking, and ultimately the answer 284 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: appears to be no, you can't really do it. So 285 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: despite having access to less money, NASA still really tackled 286 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: this challenge. I mean a lot of people poured a 287 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: ton of work and effort into trying to make this happen. 288 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: In two thousand and nine, the agency released a statement 289 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: saying the Orion would not be ready for a twenty 290 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: fourteen launch. They were hoping that they could maybe make 291 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: it a twenty fifteen deadline. But here's the thing. While 292 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: on the surface that says, oh, it's a delay of 293 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: just one year, that's actually not that bad, especially when 294 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: you consider the budgetary restraints, it actually was three years 295 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: later than what Griffin had been hoping for. He had 296 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: hoped to have the Orion ready for launch by twenty twelve, 297 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: So now they were sure it wasn't going to be 298 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: ready till at least twenty fifteen. The agency was really 299 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,680 Speaker 1: trying to narrow a gap that was going to exist 300 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: when the space shuttles retired and the USA would no 301 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: longer have a spacecraft capable of launching and docking with 302 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: the newly finished International Space Station. So the ISS gets 303 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: finished around twenty ten at the same time the space 304 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: Shuttle program retires. Now the USA is reliant on other 305 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: countries and their space program in order to get astronauts 306 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: to and from the space station, typically Russia, so that's 307 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: not ideal, and they were waiting on commercial space companies 308 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: like SpaceX to catch up, but that just hadn't happened yet. 309 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: So the real hope was that the Orion spacecraft could 310 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: take over those duties and make USA independent of other 311 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: countries and also of commercial spacecraft companies, where NASA would 312 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: be owning and operating these vehicles. But that just wasn't 313 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: going to happen. That gap was going to get wider 314 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: and wider, not narrower. NASA did have a cost overrun 315 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: of three point one billion dollars, though again this was 316 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: much less than what the agents he spent during the 317 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 1: Apollo program years. But that delay of the program and 318 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: the twenty six percent overrun in costs gave Constellation a 319 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: really bad reputation. That was a reputation that President Barack 320 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: Obama actually referenced back in two thousand and eight NASA 321 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 1: also predicted that the program would continue to cost more 322 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: than had been originally projected, with an increase of about 323 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: one hundred and forty percent of the original budget marked 324 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: out for the years between twenty ten and twenty fourteen. 325 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: Not great news. On top of that, the focus of 326 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: NASA was almost entirely on the Orion spacecraft and the 327 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: Areas one launch vehicle. Again no big surprise here. The 328 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: idea of sending people to the Moon is generally one 329 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: that people really get excited about, and excitement translates into 330 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: governments approving bigger budgets because you know, representatives want to 331 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,959 Speaker 1: support the things that their constituents are really excited about. 332 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: But that meant that the ARES five rocket, the heavy 333 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: lifting rocket, had a much smaller development budget. All the 334 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: focus was on the crude stuff. The Orion crew doesn't crewed, 335 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: the Orion spacecraft, and the ARES one launch vehicle, not 336 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: the ARES five, but the Areas five was going to 337 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: need a lot of money. I mean, this was a 338 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: heavy lifting rocket concept. But that meant that because it 339 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: didn't get that big budget, the development was getting delayed 340 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: over and over again, and that led to a point 341 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:34,479 Speaker 1: where analysts believe that based on the budgetary trajectory at NASA, 342 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: the earliest the ARES five rocket would be able to 343 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: launch the lunar landing hardware that would be necessary to 344 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: actually land on the Moon would be sometime in the 345 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: twenty thirties, if that were at all possible even then, 346 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: so that would delay that deadline of landing on the 347 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: Moon by more than a decade. The idea here was 348 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: that the Space Agency would put a lunar landing space 349 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: into Earth orbit, and it was to be called the 350 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: Lunar Surface Access Module or el SAM. Later it was 351 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: renamed the Altair and an ARIS five would launch this 352 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: Altair into Earth orbit. Because it was heavier than the 353 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: Orion spacecraft, so you wouldn't want to use like an 354 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: ARES one rocket, you need the heavy lifting rocket. There 355 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: a separate AREAS one rocket would launch an Orion spacecraft 356 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: into Earth orbit, and then the Orion spacecraft would rendezvous 357 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: with the orbiting Altair. The two would dock, and then 358 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 1: together they would make the rest of the trip to 359 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 1: the Moon. Upon entering lunar orbit, the two spacecraft could separate. 360 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: The entire crew of the Orion could move over into 361 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: the Altair Because the Orion would be automated and it 362 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: would just remain in orbit around the Moon. Then the 363 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: Altair would land on the Moon. The astronauts would go 364 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: out and you know, do moon stuff. Then they would 365 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: come back to the Altair, launch off the Moon, back 366 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 1: into orbit, dock with the Orion, transferred back over to 367 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: the Orion spacecraft, and then they could make the trip 368 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: back to Earth. But because of these budget limitations, the 369 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: focus on the Orion and the ares IE vehicles meant 370 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: that all of this other stuff, the ARES five and 371 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: the lunar module, all of that just remained hypothetical. It 372 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: was a proposal, not an actual spacecraft. So while the 373 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: agency might have produced an Orion spacecraft in time to 374 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: get into space by twenty fifteen, there was just no 375 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: hope of making enough progress to land on the Moon 376 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: any earlier than the twenty thirties, and some people thought 377 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: that even that was too ambitious. Meanwhile, NASA, the agency 378 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: was struggling with budget constraints in general, not just for 379 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: the Constellation program. Sometimes one project would have to siphon 380 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: funds intended for a totally different project. You had a 381 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: lot of internal battles in NASA as different project leads 382 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: would kind of squirrel budgetary money away that was intended 383 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: for some other project for their own. That did not 384 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: help morale in the agency, And moreover, it was never 385 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: enough to cover all the costs that were mounting up. 386 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: In twenty ten, NASA received its new budget from the 387 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: US government, and that budget listed zero for the Constellation project. 388 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: I'll explain more in just a moment, but we'll take 389 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: a quick break. So why did the US government pull 390 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 1: the plug in twenty ten on the Constellation project? Well, 391 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: it's actually pretty complicated to answer that, but it comes 392 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: down to several factors. So, for one thing, the design 393 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: specs or the various components in the Constellation project had 394 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: changed over time. Some of them had changed a few 395 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: times since two thousand and five. The team made various 396 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: determinations that then led them down different paths, requiring NASA 397 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: to invest more in new technologies and new designs and 398 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: launch craft. And the initial plan would have seen using 399 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: them using more components that already exist did right, that 400 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: were already in production. But a lot of the decisions 401 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: they made meant, oh no, we're going to have to 402 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: actually make new stuff. So that meant that the process 403 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,719 Speaker 1: was going to take longer and also cost more. The 404 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: prospects didn't look promising as far as achieving goals on time, 405 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: so that was another strike against it. And you also 406 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: had the case of a change in political administrations, which 407 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: frequently shakes things up with government funded projects. In fact, 408 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest challenges NASA faces with space travel. 409 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: It's not just the incredibly difficult task of designing technology 410 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: capable of bringing people into space safely and back home again. 411 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: It's dealing with a changing political climate that may have 412 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: vastly different priorities than the previous administration, which in turn 413 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: could mean that the funding you were counting on early 414 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: in the project disappears midway through the project, and that 415 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 1: just means it's the end of your whole process. What 416 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: a way to run a space railroad, right, So, in 417 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, when Obama won the presidency, one 418 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: of the things that followed was a change in NASA administrators. 419 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: He and his advisors had a different set of priorities 420 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: than the previous administration, which included dedicating more money toward 421 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: commercial space companies like SpaceX, rather than going down the 422 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 1: traditional path in which NASA would contract with big companies 423 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 1: like Boeing or Lockheed Griffin resigned upon Obama taking office, 424 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: which in turn is not an unusual thing to happen 425 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: when you have a change in administrations. It's not out 426 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: of the realm of normal practice for administrators to resign. 427 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 1: In those cases, it often happens. His replacement would eventually 428 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: be Charles Bolden, himself a former astronaut, though it takes 429 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: several months before Bolden would be appointed that position and 430 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: confirmed as the new administrator of NASA. These challenges are 431 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 1: part of why the private space industry was able to 432 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: get a foothold. Private companies aren't beholden to a government 433 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: for their budgets, although a private company might find itself 434 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: burning through its startup cash before it can become a 435 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 1: viable business, and private space companies like SpaceX were becoming 436 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: prominent right around the same time, which in turn created 437 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: a chance to rely on those companies for key components 438 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 1: rather than having them all be designed or contracted through NASA. 439 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: After a committee evaluated Constellation and determine that the program 440 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 1: simply could not succeed given its very ambitious goals coupled 441 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: with its very limited resources, the project got the axe 442 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: it wasn't necessarily that the project was bad, just that 443 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: its reach was further than its grasp. NASA was to 444 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,640 Speaker 1: shift money over to long range goals such as developing 445 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,120 Speaker 1: new heavy lift rockets and propulsion systems to be used 446 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: in space, all with an eye toward powering missions to 447 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: Mars in the future. The areas rockets and the air 448 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 1: ryan were scrapped, at least temporarily. Congress reacted negatively to 449 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: these changes because, well mostly because they weren't included in 450 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 1: the decisions. Obama amended his decision after encountering intense opposition 451 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: from certain members of Congress, and he brought Oryan back 452 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: into the picture, so it no longer was scrapped. It 453 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: was now back on the docket, and he set a 454 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: deadline for a new launch system to be ready to 455 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 1: go by twenty fifteen. Congress then took that plan and 456 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: tweaked it by giving NASA the directive to repurpose the 457 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: rocket designs for the Constellation project and have that ready 458 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: to go by twenty sixteen. The new launch vehicle would 459 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 1: be called the Space Launch System or SLS. One of 460 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: Obama's advisors said it was it was pretty clear that 461 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: members of Congress were doing their best to keep contracts 462 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: with big companies that had been involved in constellation, indicating 463 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: that this might have been some sort of you know, 464 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: smoke key filled room politicking going on here rather than 465 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: technical discussions. One other goal in this era was to 466 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: develop a mission in which NASA would send astronauts to 467 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: an asteroid, again as sort of a staging ground for 468 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: an eventual mission to Mars. And that's where things mostly stayed. 469 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: During Obama's administration, NASA was working on developing these initiatives, 470 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: and the private space industry began to grow at the 471 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: same time. Now, ultimately that asteroid mission would get scrapped, 472 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: but it would stick around for quite some time. Now. 473 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: When Donald Trump won the presidency, things would change again. 474 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: So one thing you do often see with these changes 475 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: in administrations is that a succeeding administration will attempt to 476 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: set more ambitious goals than the preceding one. It's a 477 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: way for presidents to kind of set themselves apart and 478 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: to try and get the nation excited about some particular initiative. 479 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: So Obama's administration was looking at the Moon and asteroids, 480 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: with a further goal being Mars in the future. Trump's 481 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: approach was similar in that it was Moon and then 482 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: straight onto Mars. Now I'm not going to go into 483 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: all the budget details here except to say, despite the 484 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: fact that you kept seeing these lofty goals in place, 485 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: you didn't necessarily see an enormous boost in budgets at NASA, 486 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: certainly nothing close to the peak that was spent back 487 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six with the Apollo program. The budget 488 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: fluctuated year to year. In twenty sixteen it was nineteen 489 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: billion dollars, but a year later the budget had reduced 490 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: down to eighteen point eight billion dollars. In twenty eighteen, 491 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: it would bounce back to nineteen point five billion, but 492 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: it kind of hovered right around that area, just under 493 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 1: twenty billion dollars. And there's still political battles being fought 494 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: around the subject of relying on commercial space companies like 495 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: SpaceX versus going the traditional route where NASA lands contracts 496 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: with specific big companies like Boeing and Lockheed in order 497 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: to build spacecraft. These battles typically play out with congressional 498 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: representatives from states that rely on big manufacturing jobs, with 499 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: those companies like Boeing and Lockheed, arguing that the key 500 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: elements of any mission should ultimately be owned and operated 501 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: by NASA. Then others say that the financially responsible thing 502 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: to do is to outsource this to commercial space companies, 503 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: whom they argue can do the same work but for 504 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: less money. And a lot of these arguments come down 505 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: to financial and political matters, again, not technological decisions, and 506 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: it gets really messy. Tech is way easier to explain. 507 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 1: In April twenty nineteen, NASA announced that the Artemis program 508 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: and its ambitious goal of putting a man and woman 509 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: on the Moon by twenty twenty four would become a reality. 510 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: Of course, we have to remember that elements of this 511 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: plan had been in development since two thousand and five, 512 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: but because the SLS is largely built upon the bones 513 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: of the proposed Areas five rocket design. Heck, the Orion spacecraft, 514 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: which will actually hold the crew of a NASA Artemis mission, 515 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: has been the one piece that's been most consistently in 516 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: development since George W. Bush was president. In February twenty twenty, 517 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: the document titled Moon twenty twenty four Mission manifest made 518 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: the rounds now. NASA has since disputed the contents of 519 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: this document, saying that it does not accurately reflect the 520 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: current state of the Artemis program. However, as of the 521 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: time of this recording, it's the most recent version of 522 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 1: the plan I can find. Everything else is kind of 523 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: gone dark, So I'll explain the manifest version of the 524 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: mission here with the caveat that things have already changed. 525 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: But this plan kind of gives us a peek into 526 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: the ambition surrounding the Artemis program, even if the subsequent 527 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: plan that will get announced probably right around the time 528 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: this episode publishes, might have more details. So here we go. 529 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: In a twenty twenty one, according to this manifest, NASA 530 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: would test a Block one SLS launch vehicle carrying an 531 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: unmanned Orion spacecraft in a mission dubbed Artemis one. So 532 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: that raises a question, what's a Block one SLS. Well, 533 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: the SLS is designed in a way that will allow 534 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: NASA to swap out elements further down the line to 535 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: give it a boost in performance. Specifically, it will allow 536 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: NASA to include more powerful boosters and rockets that are 537 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,239 Speaker 1: intended to get a crew to Mars. But those are 538 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: still being designed and constructed, and so we don't even 539 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: have an example to point at for the more advanced ones, 540 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: and rather than wait on all of that to finish 541 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: before making any other progress, NASA has placed a strategy 542 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: in which an initial version of the Space Launch System 543 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: Block one will be used to get the Orion into 544 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,239 Speaker 1: orbit or to send it to the Moon, and the 545 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: future will get a more powerful Block two SLS that 546 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: would be able to send the Orion and cargo to Mars. 547 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: So how does all this play out? Well, keep in 548 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 1: mind that the Block two doesn't really exist yet, so 549 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: things could change dramatically by the time we actually have 550 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: something built, if it even gets built. The Block one 551 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 1: SLS is the version that's currently being finalized now, and 552 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: it will have two boosters similar to the Space Shuttle, 553 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: and it will also have a core stage like a 554 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: central rocket tank with four engines. The pair of solid 555 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,839 Speaker 1: propellant rocket boosters are really similar to what the Space 556 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,919 Speaker 1: Shuttle used. In fact, some of the early SLS launch 557 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: vehicles will be using unused Space Shuttle booster casings. Then 558 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: in the future new casings will have to be made 559 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: because we'll have run out of ones that weren't used 560 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: in the Space Shuttle program. But the old Space Shuttle 561 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,919 Speaker 1: boosters had four segments of solid propellant rocket fuel. The 562 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:14,760 Speaker 1: Block one SLS boosters will have five segments the core stage. 563 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: That central rocket will have four engines, and it will 564 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: use liquid propellant. Once in space and the Orion spacecraft 565 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: separates from its launch vehicle, the Orion spacecraft will use 566 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,720 Speaker 1: what is called the interim cryogenic propulsion stage to travel 567 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: to its destination, such as the Moon. This version of 568 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: the SLS will be able to send fifty seven thousand 569 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,280 Speaker 1: pounds or twenty six metric tons of payload into space. 570 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: In fact, it'll be able to deliver payloads of that 571 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: size into orbits beyond the Moon. Now between Block one 572 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: and Block two, NASA also plans a version of the 573 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: SLS called Block one B. It'll have a little bit 574 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: more oomph. The central core will have more fuel, it'll 575 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 1: be a bigger fuel tank, and it will be able 576 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: to put not just the Orion spacecraft into orbit, but 577 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,720 Speaker 1: an orbiting habitat up into space. It can lift a 578 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: heavier payload up into space, creating opportunities for missions and 579 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: more ambitious goals. Block two's goal is to create a 580 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: launch vehicle capable of putting forty five tons of payload 581 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: into deep space and will be used for missions that 582 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: aim to go to Mars. All right, so let's get 583 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 1: back to this timeline that has since been disputed by NASA. 584 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: So according to that original timeline, or at least the 585 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: manifest timeline, NASA planned for the first crude Orion mission. 586 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: The first mission to have astronauts aboard the Orion spacecraft, 587 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: which would be called the Artemis two mission, would launch 588 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: in January twenty twenty three. The mission will use a 589 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: Block one SLS as the launch vehicle, and it would 590 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,920 Speaker 1: see the astronauts go on a path round the Moon 591 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: and back to Earth, not landing on the Moon, but 592 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,800 Speaker 1: doing an orbit of the Moon and then returning or 593 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: maybe not even a full orbit. I think it's just 594 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: a flyby behind the Moon, similar to some of the 595 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: earlier Apollo missions. In August twenty twenty four, NASA plans 596 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: to launch the Artemis three mission. This mission's purpose is 597 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: to send a lunar lander to the Moon on a 598 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: Block one BSLS. More on the whole lunar lander thing 599 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,839 Speaker 1: in a bit, because that part of the plan has 600 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: definitely changed a couple of times. October twenty twenty four 601 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: is the big one. That would be a mission called 602 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 1: Artemis four, and the purpose would be to send astronauts 603 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: to actually set foot on the Moon, including at least 604 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: one woman. This mission would use a Block one SLS 605 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: to send the Orion to rendezvous with a thing around 606 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: the Moon's orbit. We'll get back to that because it 607 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: has changed. It originally was just going to be a 608 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 1: lunar lander. Now it's slightly different. And this does not 609 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: end the Artemis program, right The landing on the Moon 610 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: is not the ultimate end of Artemis. NASA plans a 611 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: few other missions. One would happen in September twenty twenty five. 612 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: This one is not technically an Artemis mission, but it 613 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 1: will use the same spacecraft. It'll use the SLS Block 614 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: one in order to launch a satellite called the Europa Clipper, 615 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: and this one would fly over to Jupiter and get 616 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 1: an orbit around Jupiter and do flybys of Jupiter's moon 617 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 1: Europa to get a closer look. And part of the 618 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: purpose of this mission is to see if Europa has 619 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: environments that could potentially support life, So that's really exciting. 620 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: Then in June twenty twenty six, NASA plans to send 621 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 1: another mission to the Moon. This one designated Artemis five, 622 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: with more astronauts visiting Old Luna, using a Block one 623 00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 1: B SLS to get there. So this is the lightly 624 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: larger version of the SLS. The following June, NASA would 625 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: launch a lander to head to Europa, giving us an 626 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: even closer look at Jubiter's Moon because we'd have a 627 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: lander setting foot, a lander uncrewed lander setting foot or 628 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,879 Speaker 1: landing on Europa. But that would be super cool. In 629 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,879 Speaker 1: August twenty twenty eight, NASA, according to this manifest, would 630 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: plan to launch the Artemis six mission, which would once 631 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 1: again take astronauts to the Moon, but this time aboard 632 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,879 Speaker 1: a Block one B SLS, and in February twenty twenty nine, 633 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: Artemis seven would send cargo to the Moon and would 634 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,320 Speaker 1: be the first mission to rely on a Block two SLS. 635 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,320 Speaker 1: August twenty twenty nine also brings us to Artemis eight, 636 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 1: and that is also using a block to SLS to 637 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: send people astronauts aboard and orion mission. I have no 638 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: idea where that one's specifically going. It might be a 639 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: mission to test the Block two for a manned spaceflight 640 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: mission in general, but maybe it's going to the Moon. 641 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: I don't know the manifest was unclear, and the final 642 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: two Artemist missions that were in that manifest included a 643 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,400 Speaker 1: twenty thirty one called Artomis nine that would be a 644 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,800 Speaker 1: cargo mission using an SLS block two and an Artemis 645 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 1: ten that would also use a astronaut led mission on 646 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: a block to SLS. So that's what the manifest had 647 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: laid out, which NASA again has disputed, saying that there 648 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: are numerous errors or discrepancies with their current plan. But 649 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,960 Speaker 1: that's the most information I have as of the recording 650 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: of this podcast. It gives us a general idea of 651 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,399 Speaker 1: what they were thinking. When we come back, I'll talk 652 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: about some other things that have complicated this, But first 653 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:52,760 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. As I record this, we're 654 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: in a blackout on information about further details of the 655 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 1: Artimist program, largely because NASA is in contract negotiations with 656 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,319 Speaker 1: multiple companies for different parts of this program. So there's 657 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,239 Speaker 1: a lot of details that haven't been nailed down. There's 658 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: nothing to share because they haven't decided which version they're 659 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: going with on some of these things. Meanwhile, the clock 660 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: is ticking, but while we don't have concrete facts to 661 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,800 Speaker 1: talk about, we can at least go over what NASA 662 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: has in mind. Now, I've mentioned the Orion spacecraft several 663 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: times without really going into any real detail about it. Again, 664 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: out of all the pieces for the Artemis program, this 665 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,919 Speaker 1: one has had the most consistent support behind it. Since 666 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: two thousand and five, the first Orion spacecraft has been 667 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,720 Speaker 1: completed in manufacturing. So it's something that we can actually 668 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,879 Speaker 1: talk about because there is one. It hasn't been used yet, 669 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,239 Speaker 1: but it exists. It has changed a few times since 670 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 1: its original concept. The prime company responsible for building the 671 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: Orion spacecraft is Lockheed. Now lots of folks call Orion 672 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: a gum drop shaped spacecraft, and to me, it looks 673 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: really similar in design of the old Apollo capsules, but 674 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,359 Speaker 1: it's larger and fancier than this old spacecraft. It could 675 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,239 Speaker 1: carry more people. The Apollo spacecraft would carry a crew 676 00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: of three. The Orion is designed to carry a crew 677 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: of four. A lot of the documentation says they could 678 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,399 Speaker 1: carry a crew of up to six, but NASA consistently 679 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 1: describes it as being a four person spacecraft. It is 680 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,680 Speaker 1: capable of traveling in space for twenty one days, or 681 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,919 Speaker 1: it can exist out in space for up to six 682 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: months when docked with some other spacecraft like the International 683 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 1: Space Station. NASA's plan is to crew the Orion spacecraft 684 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,839 Speaker 1: with four astronauts, though as I said before, it could 685 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,239 Speaker 1: potentially hold as many a six, at least according to 686 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,799 Speaker 1: most documentation I've read. The crew module, which is the 687 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 1: bit that the astronauts will actually be in, is the 688 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 1: part that looks like an old Apollo capsule, but bigger. 689 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: It has three hundred and sixteen cubic feet of habitable volume. 690 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,319 Speaker 1: The old Apollo spacecraft had numerous die switches, buttons and 691 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:05,279 Speaker 1: screens all over the place, but the Orion has just 692 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,280 Speaker 1: three computer screens, and it distills all of those various 693 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: technologies that were represented by those buttons and dials and 694 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:16,360 Speaker 1: switches into a computer controlled system accessible through on screen commands, 695 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,799 Speaker 1: which in itself is a pretty big departure and a 696 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: big bet. It's one of those things that makes some 697 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,880 Speaker 1: people nervous, the idea that you have these computerized systems, 698 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,320 Speaker 1: and you question, well, what happens if something goes wrong? 699 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: How do you take manual control of the spacecraft. I've 700 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,880 Speaker 1: already talked about the SLS, but there's a third part 701 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,440 Speaker 1: of that that we need to mention really quickly, which 702 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 1: is what NASA calls the Exploration Ground Systems or EGS. 703 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 1: I would call that a launch pad. The SLS will 704 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 1: use new ones constructed for that purpose, and the project 705 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,719 Speaker 1: will also make use of two new spacesuit designs. But 706 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,920 Speaker 1: rather than go into detail about those spacesuits, I'm going 707 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,240 Speaker 1: to save that for its own podcast to talk about 708 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: the evolution of the space suit and how that has 709 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:06,839 Speaker 1: changed over the past few decades. To actually visit the Moon, 710 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 1: NASA does have some other plans, and one of those 711 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,160 Speaker 1: now is the Lunar Gateway. Before I was talking about 712 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 1: a lunar lander that the Orion would have presumably rendezvous 713 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:20,879 Speaker 1: with around orbit in the Moon and then gone down 714 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 1: to the surface. But things have changed since then. So 715 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,560 Speaker 1: here's how it's supposed to work. You have what is 716 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: essentially a lunar satellite or lunar space station. This not 717 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 1: as big as the International Space Station, but a station 718 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,720 Speaker 1: in orbit around the Moon itself, and NASA would launch 719 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,759 Speaker 1: this in parts in several launches, and then construct it 720 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 1: in space around lunar orbit, and when finished, it should 721 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 1: be the size of a studio apartment. According to NASA, 722 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 1: capable of supporting astronauts for several months at a time 723 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: if necessary. Orion would be docking with this gateway satellite 724 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 1: or gateway station in order to go to Moon missions, 725 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,919 Speaker 1: and astronauts would not stay aboard the Lunar Gateway all 726 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: year round. Instead, they would just be there for the 727 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: duration of a mission before departing in the Orion capsule 728 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 1: to come back home, and you would have to occasionally 729 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:27,280 Speaker 1: or frequently send cargo up to replenish the Lunar Gateway. 730 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:33,279 Speaker 1: From the gateway, astronauts would board a spacecraft that would 731 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:37,120 Speaker 1: be a type of transfer module, so they would dock 732 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,160 Speaker 1: their Orion capsule with the Lunar Gateway, transfer over into 733 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,839 Speaker 1: the Lunar Gateway, get stuff ready for their Moon adventures. 734 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 1: Then they would go over into this transfer module and 735 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: that would detach from the Lunar Gateway. It would make 736 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,520 Speaker 1: its way to the descent point for the Moon's surface. 737 00:45:58,120 --> 00:45:59,880 Speaker 1: It would then separate so that you would have a 738 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 1: descent stage, a descent module that would go down and 739 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 1: land on the surface of the Moon. Astronauts would then 740 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,760 Speaker 1: do their thing on the lunar surface, using the descent 741 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 1: stage as sort of a base of operations for up 742 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,799 Speaker 1: to two weeks. Then they would board the part of 743 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,879 Speaker 1: that module that would be the ascent module. So this 744 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 1: is the part that actually launches back off of the 745 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:29,160 Speaker 1: Moon's surface, leaving part of it behind, right, So everyone 746 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: piles into the Ascent Module, they launch, and then that 747 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,960 Speaker 1: puts them into a trajectory where they can rendezvous with 748 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,840 Speaker 1: the Lunar Gateway, dock with it, and come back to 749 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,799 Speaker 1: that studio apartment floating around the surface of the Moon. 750 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 1: They could then continue work in the Lunar Gateway, or 751 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 1: they could transfer over to the Orion spacecraft for the 752 00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,920 Speaker 1: journey home. Now that part of the plan is largely 753 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 1: being left to commercial space programs, so this is really 754 00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,160 Speaker 1: not a description of a specific piece of technology. It's 755 00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: more of a description of what NASA wants in order 756 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,239 Speaker 1: for them to be able to have these missions work. 757 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 1: So it's more like, this is what the technology needs 758 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,719 Speaker 1: to be able to do, but we're leaving it up 759 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 1: to various companies to present proposals on how they want 760 00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:20,239 Speaker 1: to do that. So while there's some concept art, it's 761 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,040 Speaker 1: all just a placeholder. These companies could each come up 762 00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,959 Speaker 1: with very different proposals on how to achieve the same goal, 763 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,920 Speaker 1: and then ultimately NASA will select whichever one the agency 764 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,000 Speaker 1: feels as the most the perfect one for their mission. 765 00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,400 Speaker 1: Hard to say the best, because things like not just 766 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: the technological capability, but also the price factor into this 767 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:46,320 Speaker 1: sort of stuff. Anyway, honestly, that's pretty much where Artemis 768 00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,799 Speaker 1: shakes out today. It's a lot of placeholders. Even to 769 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,400 Speaker 1: this day that still blows my mind considering that the 770 00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,640 Speaker 1: goal is to get boots on the Moon by twenty 771 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,200 Speaker 1: twenty four. But then we've moved pretty quickly in the 772 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,480 Speaker 1: past in the space race, and honestly, this might be 773 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:06,120 Speaker 1: exactly what we need to drive innovation. We'll be right 774 00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: back with more about the Artemis program after these short messages. 775 00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,000 Speaker 1: So there are generally two paths you can take when 776 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,319 Speaker 1: you're making these sort of big, big programs. One is 777 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,120 Speaker 1: you can work on the technology that you're gonna need 778 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,400 Speaker 1: for space exploration, and then you can set a timeline 779 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:35,319 Speaker 1: based on your progress as you produce these pieces of technology. 780 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:37,960 Speaker 1: But that opens up the chance for projects to fall 781 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:42,520 Speaker 1: into an observation called Parkinson's law that's named after Cyril 782 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:47,400 Speaker 1: Northcote Parkinson, a British author and Parkinson observed that work 783 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,759 Speaker 1: tends to expand to fill the time available for it 784 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,160 Speaker 1: to be completed. So, for example, let's say I'm researching 785 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,880 Speaker 1: a podcast, and initially I have a deadline of four 786 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,040 Speaker 1: hours to finish my research before I have to go 787 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,799 Speaker 1: into the studio, and that means it's going to take 788 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,800 Speaker 1: me four hours to complete that research. I've got it 789 00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:07,320 Speaker 1: all planned out, I'm ready to go. I'm hitting the 790 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:10,279 Speaker 1: ground running. I'll be done in four hours. But let's 791 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,920 Speaker 1: say that something happens. Let's say that there's another podcast 792 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:15,920 Speaker 1: in the studio where I was supposed to go in 793 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,759 Speaker 1: they're running late. Then I'm told, hey, it's actually going 794 00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,839 Speaker 1: to be two hours later than what you thought. Now 795 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,440 Speaker 1: you have six hours to finish that research. Well, according 796 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 1: to Parkinson's law, the work of that research will actually 797 00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:33,279 Speaker 1: expand for that six hours. That does not necessarily mean 798 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 1: that the podcast I record is going to be longer 799 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,640 Speaker 1: than it would have been if it had stated its 800 00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,160 Speaker 1: original studio time, or that'll even be better than it 801 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,560 Speaker 1: would have been when I was supposed to go in, 802 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,640 Speaker 1: rather than just the work itself expanded to fill in 803 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:52,040 Speaker 1: those extra two hours. So let's say we're working on 804 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,960 Speaker 1: a project, and we're not sure how long it's going 805 00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,920 Speaker 1: to take us to complete this project, but we're supposed 806 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,239 Speaker 1: to give an estimate. So if we're conserv then we'll 807 00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,839 Speaker 1: give an estimate that's further out than what we think 808 00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,960 Speaker 1: we actually need. And the idea being well, things are 809 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,160 Speaker 1: gonna pop up, we're gonna have to deal with them, 810 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,239 Speaker 1: so let's plan for it to take twenty days, but 811 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,160 Speaker 1: we think it's really gonna only take ten. Well, according 812 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,319 Speaker 1: to Parkinson's law, the work we're doing is actually going 813 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,520 Speaker 1: to expand to fill up those extra ten days. So 814 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,560 Speaker 1: at the end we're going to say, boy, aren't we 815 00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,839 Speaker 1: glad we said twenty days because it turned out that's 816 00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:30,600 Speaker 1: how long we needed. But there's also the possibility that 817 00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,440 Speaker 1: you could have completed it in ten days, and that 818 00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,239 Speaker 1: you really just allowed the work to expand to fill 819 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,600 Speaker 1: that space, that if you had given a ten day deadline, 820 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,239 Speaker 1: you still have gotten the work done. There is a 821 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,880 Speaker 1: diminishing return here, though. There is a point where you 822 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,719 Speaker 1: might give a deadline that's just too aggressive, right that 823 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,120 Speaker 1: maybe you say, oh, it's going to take us five days, 824 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:51,879 Speaker 1: when you really think it's going to take you ten, 825 00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,400 Speaker 1: and you're doing it so that you motivate yourself, but 826 00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,239 Speaker 1: it turns out you've sabotaged the whole project because there's 827 00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,560 Speaker 1: just no way to get it all done in five days. 828 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,080 Speaker 1: That can also happen. So it's a delicate line you 829 00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:06,319 Speaker 1: have to walk right. So Parkinson's law is really more 830 00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,840 Speaker 1: about how we let time get away from us, or 831 00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,520 Speaker 1: how we allow bureaucracy to play a large role in things, 832 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,239 Speaker 1: or otherwise bog ourselves down in the stuff that keeps 833 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,680 Speaker 1: us from getting the core work done. However, it does 834 00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,359 Speaker 1: not mean we can set these arbitrarily short deadlines and 835 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,640 Speaker 1: then magically get things done faster. As I said, there 836 00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:26,799 Speaker 1: is that tipping point that you have to look at. 837 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:32,759 Speaker 1: NASA's approach is to set aggressive but potentially achievable deadlines 838 00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,240 Speaker 1: that in turn sets expectations and the pace of work. 839 00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:38,919 Speaker 1: It also gets people into the habit of looking at 840 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,239 Speaker 1: practical approaches. If the goal is to get people back 841 00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,799 Speaker 1: on the Moon by twenty twenty four, what are the 842 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:49,080 Speaker 1: things that have to happen in order to achieve that goal. 843 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,200 Speaker 1: If we're going to send people to Mars in the 844 00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:56,120 Speaker 1: following decade in twenty thirties, what do we absolutely have 845 00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,959 Speaker 1: to have nailed down to make that happen, rather than 846 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,239 Speaker 1: just having feature creep come in where we say, oh, 847 00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,359 Speaker 1: wouldn't it be nice if we also added this. By 848 00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,560 Speaker 1: saying these aggressive goals, you kind of push feature creep 849 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:13,200 Speaker 1: to the side because you say, listen, our main concern 850 00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:17,160 Speaker 1: is getting this to happen by this date. The things 851 00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,600 Speaker 1: that would be nice are out of the discussion because 852 00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,680 Speaker 1: that doesn't contribute to what we actually have as our goal. 853 00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:29,440 Speaker 1: So that's kind of what happened in the nineteen sixties 854 00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,799 Speaker 1: to a large extent, and it does work as a 855 00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:39,200 Speaker 1: motivating factor to a certain level. Now. Besides, these timelines 856 00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,759 Speaker 1: have to be aggressive anyway, because NASA can't count on 857 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,440 Speaker 1: having a budget sufficient for achieving its goals from one 858 00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:51,520 Speaker 1: year to the next, definitely not between presidential administrations, and 859 00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,000 Speaker 1: there's the potential for the presidential administration to make a 860 00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,960 Speaker 1: big change in twenty twenty, So who knows what the 861 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,560 Speaker 1: next president might prioritize when it comes to budgets. So 862 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,279 Speaker 1: if they set longer timelines, if NASA said, Okay, we're 863 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:11,480 Speaker 1: gonna give ourselves more space, no pun intended, to get 864 00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,920 Speaker 1: this stuff done, there'd be a lot more chances for 865 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,200 Speaker 1: things like budget cutbacks which would sabotage emission just as 866 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:22,040 Speaker 1: effectively as hitting some sort of technical or design challenge 867 00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:25,520 Speaker 1: that would become harder to solve than you thought. NASA 868 00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,160 Speaker 1: is moving forward with their goals that we're gonna have 869 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,759 Speaker 1: to wait and see if they actually are achievable. But 870 00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,600 Speaker 1: in the meantime, the agency has opened up the application 871 00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:38,000 Speaker 1: process for people who are interested in becoming astronauts. Right now, 872 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,400 Speaker 1: the US Astronaut program has about forty eight people in it. 873 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,840 Speaker 1: NASA needs more for this program to be workable, so 874 00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:48,400 Speaker 1: it's possible someone listening to this podcast could be the 875 00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,000 Speaker 1: first woman or the next man to set foot on 876 00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,160 Speaker 1: the moon. To apply, you have to meet some pretty 877 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:58,680 Speaker 1: high standards, which again is understandable. There are three general 878 00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,520 Speaker 1: types of folks that NASA's looking for during this application process. 879 00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,880 Speaker 1: They're looking for people who hold at least a master's 880 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,799 Speaker 1: degree in a STEM related field, so like engineering or 881 00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:13,400 Speaker 1: astrophysics or something like that. They are also looking for 882 00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:17,160 Speaker 1: people who are medical doctors. It gets more specific than that, 883 00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,760 Speaker 1: but that's one of the three types, and the third 884 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:24,000 Speaker 1: are people who are certified test pilots. Those are the 885 00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,960 Speaker 1: three types that NASA's looking for. So if you belong 886 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,000 Speaker 1: to one of those three groups, you can look into 887 00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,200 Speaker 1: the requirements that NASA has in place to see if 888 00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:35,040 Speaker 1: you meet all the criteria. The application process includes an 889 00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,480 Speaker 1: online component for the very first time, which, as I understand, 890 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,400 Speaker 1: it takes a couple of hours to complete. I wouldn't 891 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,799 Speaker 1: know because I don't meet the initial criteria, but maybe 892 00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,120 Speaker 1: one of you guys can find out, and we'll have 893 00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,120 Speaker 1: to wait and see if Artemis actually gets people to 894 00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,279 Speaker 1: the Moon. We just don't know if it's going to 895 00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,239 Speaker 1: be possible, yet I have high hopes. I would love 896 00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,560 Speaker 1: to see it happen. I don't know how useful it 897 00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:59,919 Speaker 1: will be in the long term unless we're actually able 898 00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:01,719 Speaker 1: to to use the stuff we learn on the Moon 899 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,480 Speaker 1: as a platform for learning how we can get to Mars. 900 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:11,520 Speaker 1: But it's definitely something that is inspirational and that alone 901 00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,840 Speaker 1: has value. You just have to weigh that value against 902 00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:19,799 Speaker 1: other considerations, like risk and the other goals that you 903 00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,480 Speaker 1: have with the agency, because NASA is doing obviously a 904 00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,360 Speaker 1: lot more than just these programs, and you don't want 905 00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:31,920 Speaker 1: to have a big, high risk, high payoff project fail 906 00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:36,080 Speaker 1: like the Constellation project did, and potentially set the agency backward. 907 00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,319 Speaker 1: So it's a complicated thing, but we'll have to keep 908 00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,759 Speaker 1: our eyes open. I'm sure I'll do an update on 909 00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,960 Speaker 1: this in the future, once we know more about what 910 00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:47,200 Speaker 1: the Artemis program is going to be moving forward, and 911 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,520 Speaker 1: whether those deadlines stay in place or if they shift around. 912 00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,239 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, if you guys have any suggestions 913 00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:56,600 Speaker 1: for future topics, whether they're space related or a tech 914 00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,560 Speaker 1: company or some trend in technology you want to know 915 00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,120 Speaker 1: more about out send me a message. You can contact 916 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,560 Speaker 1: me on social media at Facebook or Twitter. We are 917 00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,440 Speaker 1: tech Stuff hsw at both and I'll talk to you 918 00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:19,120 Speaker 1: again really soon. Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For 919 00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:24,080 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 920 00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:29,960 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.