WEBVTT - Wearable Devices for Virus Early Detection 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.400 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanibek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.600 plus technology, politics, economics, all furnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.600 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.200 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.120 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:34.559 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. President bind planning to announce 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.519 that n of US adults will be eligible to get 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.600 a COVID nineteen vaccine in three weeks three weeks, and 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.159 that his administration will more than double the number of 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.240 pharmacies where shots are available. This according to officials familiar 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:48.239 with the matter, we are expected to hear from the 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:50.320 President shortly to know where we should everybody to d 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:51.879 c when we should be hearing from him in just 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:53.800 a few minutes. We're also seeing some other headlines. The 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.280 reason the President will be able to say that is 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.200 because states like New York. Just announcing that the vast 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:01.800 majority of adult we'll be able to get vaccines starting 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.040 very soon, doesn't mean that they can get them just 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:06.600 with the you know, they can access to them, they're 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:08.720 eligible to them. This comes to is ahead of the 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:12.200 CDC pleaded with Americans to wear masks again. Listen, hospitalizations 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:14.960 are going up, cases are going up, and deaths allogging 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.600 indicator have also started to rise. Again. Let's bring in 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:21.360 doctor Heather Failing, chief scientific officer at Clinical Reference Labs. 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.720 She is on the phone in Kansas, doctor Failing. Nice 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:27.760 to have you here with Tim and me. That bulk 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:30.560 of headlines again, great that there seems to be more 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:34.960 vaccines out there. Not so great that cases, hospitalizations, uh, 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:39.080 and the like are going up. How do you see it? Yes, absolutely, 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:42.520 I agree with that, and we definitely need to stay vigilant, 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.920 you know, in our mask wearing as well as in 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.960 our testing measures. I think that's key, you know, keeping 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.360 everyone safe and especially as the variants are uh, you know, 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:56.680 continuing to spread, which is affecting transmissibility. Why do you 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:00.400 think we are seeing this uptick? Is it because people 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:02.800 are are just not being vigilant? We saw so many 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.520 images in the last few weeks about spring breakers. People 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:07.080 have been cooped up for more than a year at 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:09.560 this point. Maybe people saw the numbers going down and 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:11.320 thought they were safer than they actually are. Why do 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:13.960 you think we're seeing it? Yes, I agree, I think 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.119 it's all of that. I think we've seen a little 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.400 bit of COVID fatigue. Folks are you know, a little 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:22.280 bit tired of all of the COVID measures. Uh. You know, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.400 we've come against spring break and as well. You know, 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.440 a lot of folks are getting the vaccine. Uh, you know, 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:30.320 and it's starting to cut down on some of the 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.160 masks wearing. But they really need to to stay vigilant, 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.919 and yeah, keep those measures up so we can really 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.680 curb this bread. So we have to stay vigilant. We 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.840 know that masks social distancing. We're gonna talk shortly with 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:47.200 our own Riley Griffin about COVID pill that could come 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.480 from Mark uh and kind of a way that would 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:53.120 give us a new treatment and a weapon against coronaviruses 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:57.480 and future pandemics. You guys are also involved in creating tools, 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:00.560 you know, for ways for us to man something like 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.400 a COVID nineteen tell us about wearables and the role 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:07.000 that they might play going forward. Oh. Absolutely, and you're 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.280 at Clinical Reference Lab. We're really excited by a partnership 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:14.160 that we put into play with Stanford to use wearables 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.360 for the early detection of COVID nineteen. And how this 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:21.160 works is eligible study participants are provided a wearable that's 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:24.880 made by Impatica as well as thirty days of CRLs 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:30.600 at homes saliva based rapid CRLs. It's a it's an 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:34.960 at home saliva based collection kit for COVID nineteen and 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:39.320 it has FDA Emergency Use authorization for self collection. And 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:43.040 so the study of using the individual's biometric data from 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:47.400 their wearable like body temperature, heart rate, and even electrodermal activity, 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.240 which are basically just micro sweats. It's a form of 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:53.160 a stress sensor. And these metrics are then used to 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:57.560 track changes that might indicate possible infection and the CRL 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:01.800 rapid response COVID testing comes into play uh to confirm 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:05.480 actual infection. So in other words, like is it going 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.040 to tract a higher temperature and then that can tell 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:09.440 you to go get a test, because I'm going to 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:13.400 say I get warm just running around this office. So 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:17.840 so how is it something that's actually intuitive and actually 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.080 maybe a really reliable indicator that there's something more than 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.359 just a spike in your temperature, a normal spike in 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.520 your temperature, right, And there are different levels of alert. 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:30.160 So the algorithm is programmed to understand that there could 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:34.560 be temporary elevations caused by stress or you know, alcohol 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.600 or working out things of that nature, and so UM 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:41.200 it is trained to understand, you know, more serious alerts, 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.000 and it will alert the user or the participant in 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.080 the study. You know, have you had exercise yes or no? 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:49.880 And so it'll just kind of mark that and then 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.080 the more serious alerts UM. You know, they definitely need to, 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.200 you know, do this year all rapid response test to 0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:00.640 confirm potential infection there dr fail. How how are you 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:02.920 thinking about this being endemic when we're on the other 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.160 side of this pandemic, because it does feel like with 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:07.680 you know, what we're going to hear from the president. Reportedly, 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.599 according to sources you tell Bloomberg News of the country 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.800 has access to a vaccine or is eligible for a 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:17.760 vaccine at this point that we are getting close to 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:21.080 to at least having the ability for almost every single 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.600 American adult to have to get this vaccine, and if 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.279 that is the case, then we can be on the 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:32.279 other side of this pandemic. Like the President said in July, correct, 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:34.560 I think we are going to see that. I think, 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.360 you know, COVID will become more like a diasonal flu 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:42.120 as it becomes endemic, and we'll need those booster vaccines 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.599 that are variant specific and and just kind of a 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.279 regular watch of symptoms. And that's why I think the 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.279 wearable technology is so important, because it's more of a 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:55.600 passive testing technology. It's just sitting there in the background, monitoring, 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:58.320 and it can then prompt you that you know something 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.719 is amiss here, you need to pay attention and potentially 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:04.440 get it past. And what's nice is it identifies you 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:08.279 in that pre symptomatic phase when you would be uh, 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:11.720 you know, more higher to transmit the disease as compared 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.719 to other stages. Are you guys anticipating that the likes 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.119 of Apple and others, some of these high tech firms 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.520 already Apple Watch and some others that are out there, 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:21.600 that this is going to be something that they're going 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:23.400 to be pursuing. I'm curious if you guys are having 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.640 any conversations with the likes of Apple and other high 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:32.880 tech companies about you know, amping up their health monitoring applications. Oh. Absolutely, 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:38.440 and others are involved in similar requests for different applications. UH. 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.360 Fit that has has been involved and even they've donated 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:45.520 devices as part of Stanford studies and UM as part 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.880 of Stanford's program. If that you do have a wearable UH, 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:52.000 you can actually go to the Apple app store and 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.560 UH there is an app there that you can download 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:58.080 called my PhD UM and this is their study app 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.400 and it doesn't require a p HD like the name says, 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:05.320 it actually stands for my Personal Health Dashboard. And so 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.480 you can download the app and roll in the study 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.600 and then use your own wearable UH, including an Apple 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.080 Watch to to monitor COVID nineteen as well as as 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:17.960 other potential infectious diseases. What's the regulatory approval process like 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.840 for this? You know, if you're using it in more 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:25.200 of a general wellness sense, UM, it's it's not as strict, 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.440 but correct. When you do get into a disease diagnosis, UH, 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:31.360 you know, you do need to pursue some sort of 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:33.400 a regulatory pathway like an FD You have to get 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:36.640 FDA clearance as a medical devices right, if you're doing 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:40.960 a diagnostic that's is this going to do that? Um? 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:43.920 I know there have been discussions about it. It's because 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:45.880 it's kind of That's why I ask about the idea 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.720 of it's going to be endemic versus pandemic, because that 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:51.840 type of process can take a significant amount of time. Right, 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:53.960 it can take time. But you know, I believe with 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.160 the f d A, I mean CRL, we've taken a 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:59.520 test through the FDA and with the Emergency Use Authorization 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.680 path A. You know, that's a great pathway to be 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:06.480 the process of review and an authorization. Hey, one thing 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:08.320 I'm curious to, well, what does this cost? What will 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:12.040 it cost an individual? Um? I'm not sure exactly on 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.920 the cost of the app itself. Right now, it's available 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.800 for free for download. And you know, we've talked with 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:22.040 you in the past about your COVID nineteen saliva tests. 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:25.240 In terms of it's been a year and counting since 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:27.640 we all began all of this. What have we learned 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:31.000 about those saliva tests and those you know tests in 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.840 general that so many of us have done so many times. 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:36.160 Have they gotten better? Have we learned how to do 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.440 them better? What have we learned in this process, Yes, 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.160 I definitely been. Folks have learned to do them better. 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:46.320 And here at Zero, we've done over six hundred thousand 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.960 saliva tests in our lab and we've really demonstrated of 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:54.160 utility and the accuracy of our saliva based tests and UH. 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.720 Since we've launched and since we left Folk, we've partnered 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.960 with DNA Geno Tech as well of the CDC in 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:05.200 our local public health lab to do viral strain analysis. UM, 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.920 so we've recently we've been learning a lot about the 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:11.719 different strains that we've been seeing, and we're seeing Brazilian 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:16.120 variants like p to the UK variant, California, and a 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.400 whole host of others. So it's really been fascinating to 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:26.160 look at those different variants and transmissibility within schools and workplaces. 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:31.800 So vaccinations and UH testing are certainly a part of it, 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:33.800 but another big part of it is is treatment. And 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:35.680 in just a few minutes a little later in the show, 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.520 we're gonna be speaking with our US healthcare reporter Riley 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.480 Griffin about a great new piece that's in the magazine 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.400 about Mark's COVID pill being a frontrunner in the elusive 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.120 anti viral quest. How do you see treatments playing out 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.079 over the next couple of years, Considering the US and 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.240 the UK and Israel are really the only places in 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:57.800 the world at this point that have huge, significant vaccine 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:02.760 programs that are underway right now, I think, yeah, treatment 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.000 is definitely going to become key, and I think if 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:06.959 we can get in a treatment that's similar to a 0:10:07.080 --> 0:10:09.520 Tama flu, I think we're going to go a long 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:13.839 way into comparing this virus. But I also think the 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:18.719 early detection is even you know, also have a big part. Yeah, 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.000 good to know covered a lot of ground. Dr Heather Failing, 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:24.880 thank you so much, Chief scientific officer at Clinical Reference Labs, 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.760 joining us on the phone from Kansas. This is Bloomberg 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.520 Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:36.200 Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. The force liquidation of more than 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.559 twenty billion dollars in holdings linked to Bill Whang's investment 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:43.160 from drawing attention to the covert financial instruments he used 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.760 to build large stakes in the companies. The stock market 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.800 may be largely shrugging it off, but the individual stocks 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:52.240 that were the target of his trades, they are not 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:54.959 let's get into what you need to know. And certainly 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:57.760 the banks involved are not shrugging this off. She not 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.480 Arajan is finance reporter at Bloomberg New is on the 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.160 phone in New York City. First of all, who is 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:05.360 Bill Hwang? Because all of a sudden, we're talking about 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.360 this individual that is not very well known to Wall 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:11.600 Street Tree Um and kudas to you guys for breaking this. 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.280 So what do we need to know? Try try try 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.200 asking the who's Bill jeg question to Nomura and Curt 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:25.319 exactly Bill Huang, Let's do a quick biography on him. 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.480 In the ninety nineties work for Julian Robertson and Tiger 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:31.520 Uh went off to set off his set off and 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.880 started his on hedge fund Tiger Asia got the title 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:37.160 of a so called Tiger Club. He was feaded by 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:40.959 Julians Robertson was doing really well and hedge sharted a 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.640 short rise in a quick rise, But then came two 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.880 thousand twelve when he was charged over inside and trading 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.319 his hedge when admitted to wire fraud and effectively had 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.319 to shut down the hedge fund, return all the outside 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:56.800 money and turn into a family office. But since then 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.960 he seems to have had this improbable second chance were 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:03.120 again he grew into a major force in the market, 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:07.640 largely with the use of borrowed money to make massive, 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:12.640 massive wages on a few concentrated positions. And uh, that's 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:16.920 pretty much water has led us to this breathtaking unraveling 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:18.680 that we've seen over the last two days. Okay, so 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.400 let's go back just to you Thursday Friday and what 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:25.640 happened last week, specifically with Viacom, CBS and and and Discovery. 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:27.760 Talk to us about the big block trads there and 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:33.040 why Huang was exposed. Sure, we're still trying to piece 0:12:33.080 --> 0:12:38.440 together exactly what all triggered this mad dash to unload stuff, 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:42.720 but from what we understand, the main source of Quang's 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:45.480 funding with these swaps that he had struck up with 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.360 major Waltreet finances, prime brokers from Goldman Sax to Morgan 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:52.559 Stanley to Kred Sweets and Deutsche Bank and Amora, which 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:57.599 which allowed him to have a big exposure Wednesday afternoon. 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.520 We know that there was a Viacom equity deal that 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:05.680 sent its stock slumping some. There were some other moves 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:09.600 that we speculated were also positions in which Wang was 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:13.079 present in a large visible manners that had also gone 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.720 against him. This led to some panic that many of 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.680 the big banks, which were worried about their exposure and 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:22.480 whether margin limits were going to be breached. They tried 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.120 to work out an arrangement, but by Friday it was 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.640 clear that each on their own they tried to save 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:32.079 the collateral, make sure that they could find bias for 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:35.520 that block and stem their losses. From what we can see, 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:39.880 Goldman Sachs seems to have emerged from this incident, at 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.840 least as of now. They're telling some of their clients 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:46.200 that largely unscaped. But on the other hand, you have 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:48.839 places like Nomura, which says it has a two billion 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:52.040 claim against this client, which could expose them to a 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:54.120 significant loss in credit s ways, which hasn't put a 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:57.600 figure to it, but it's also clearly flagged that there 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.240 is a big possible hit that they might have to 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:02.720 take shreck. What strikes me and all of this is 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.400 that if the VIA companies didn't come out, and if 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.720 fire Colm Shares didn't start to maybe tank, that maybe 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:11.920 we would have this wouldn't have happened and we would 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.640 have never known about it. What seems to be a 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:23.040 somewhat risky trade with incredible exposure that has gone horribly wrong, 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.480 and it just makes me think about the system overall 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:31.360 and the lack of checks and balances. Oh absolutely, as 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:33.680 we as we pick up the pieces from this garnage 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:36.920 and we move ahead from this point, one of the 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.320 big things that will play out, and I think something 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.200 that the regulators may very well pay attention to, is 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.640 this idea of on a non leveraged house bit that 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.480 one family office could the mass positions of this sizing 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.480 tens of billions of dollars without anyone really knowing about it. 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:54.360 If you were a regular hedge fund, that is going 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.280 out and buying, if taken a company you need to 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.120 in the U S company you would have to put 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.040 out if I think then there are various sec supports 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:05.680 you have to file when you have outside money. The 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.800 fact that he was using spots, the fact that Bill 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:12.040 Hongs was Bill Hongs family office and not and did 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:15.080 not have any other outside money, you were left in 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:20.040 a situation where none of those requirements apply, and you 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:25.440 had a from that was effectively a large will in 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:30.640 the market. And yet barely anyone talked about this from 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.160 and now everyone's sitting up and taking notice. That is 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.680 a problem. Yeah, imagine regulators are going to be looking 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.800 at that question pretty closely, Sree. I wonder when it 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:45.360 comes to risk management, how a financial institution thinks about 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:49.560 somebody who may have had some regulatory challenges in the past, 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:55.040 charge of it trading regulatory I'm trying to I mean, 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.120 is it rare that That's look, Wall Street is full 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.120 of second acts and third acts, But is it rare 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.200 that somebody of this profile would be able to build 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.040 such a sizeable war dress chest with several different banks, 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:09.480 given this history like Goldman and Morgan and the venerable 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:13.720 Wall Street firm Street. Oh look, I mean, Timm, you 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:15.640 do say that Wall streets for the second chances and 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:18.440 third chances, But just step away two blocks from Wall 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:20.720 Street on the main street and ask people how how 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.360 often do people get their second chance in the third chance? 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.560 The question here really is how did someone who was 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:31.120 so publicly shamed they were inside a trading hedge fund 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:36.360 admitting to wire fraud such a rebound to become become 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.120 a big force in the market. Was to your of 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.400 the commission and the interest that flowed to all these 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:47.080 dealers so blinding that they were all willingly happy to 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.840 give this film a second chance. And maybe maybe the 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:51.880 argument in right be but crimes that took place in 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:53.760 two thousand eight, more than a decade it past, and 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.000 it was it was located to do business. But it 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.880 is definitely something that does not sit well with everyone, 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.120 like why would Well should be so eager and willing 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.400 to do business with him? And what does it say 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:12.119 about our markets? It's the repercussions for something as serious 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:17.720 as the charges of insider trading are so minimal. Yeah, listen, 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:19.399 I feel like there's lots of questions out there, and 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.720 you have to wonder about the phone conversations and phones 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.280 ringing cell phones, you know, the text messages and ringing 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.280 with David Solomon over at Goldman everybody who heads up 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:31.719 one of these firms like what's our position? What's our 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:34.360 risk here? Uh? And all of their risk teams kind 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:36.320 of looking at the situation and how it got there. 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:40.240 Shre unbelievable reporting. You guys breaking this? You breaking this? 0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:43.199 Our finance reporter at Bloomberg News on the phone in 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.879 New York City. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:51.320 Masser and Bloomberg Quick takes Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.520 Let's get into our next story because it's in the magazine. 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.919 It's a story about Mark's COVID pill, and Tim, it's 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:00.840 about how it could be a front runner in the 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.920 world elusive anti viral quest. This might be just another 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.080 tool in the toolkit that we need. Yeah, and we 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.560 need a big toolkit with a global pandemic. Joel Webber 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:10.520 is editor at Bloomberg Business Week, joining us on the 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:13.359 remote from Brooklyn. Riley Griffin, us healthcare reporter for a 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.720 Bloomberg News joins us on the phone from here in 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.040 New York. Joel, we talked about vaccines. We heard from 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.920 the President just now about the vaccination efforts. Where does 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:27.320 treatment fit in, Well, we haven't had any reason for 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.240 it to fit in, and that's because we just have 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:34.080 not had that many tools in the pipeline. And that's 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.600 what's significant about the story that Riley and or co 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:42.920 author Cynthia Coon's brought to this week's issue of the magazine, 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.480 Um which you know, there's this little pill that Mark 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:50.440 has been developing. It's one of several hundred different varieties 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.879 of treatments that are basically underway right now, but based 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.359 on on the reporting, we think Marx is maybe closest 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.560 to some data which could be forthcoming within a matter 0:19:01.600 --> 0:19:04.359 of days, and that will really give us a look 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:09.199 at UM. What we all hope is another chapter in 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.000 this fight against COVID which would start to look like treatment, 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:15.639 something that you could give someone when they get sick. UM. 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.440 That's different than the vaccine. Obviously we need the vaccines too, 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:22.960 but what happens if someone has a vaccine, is vaccinated, 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.480 get sick or for all of those people out there 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.199 who might not have a vaccine, and that's where this 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.439 merc development comes in. So so Riley talk to us 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.199 a little bit about what an anti viral with the 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:40.080 promise of an anti viral like this anti viral is 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:44.040 that hundreds of thousands of people continue to contract COVID 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.120 each and every day, So we need those therapies UM 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:51.320 to get to patients quickly at the beginning of their disease. Cynthia, 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.520 my colleague and I like to bring this as tama 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:58.240 fluper covid, something that could be deployed broadly to your sister, 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:02.240 your grandparents, those high risk, those low risks at the 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:04.919 earliest course of their disease. As you said, there are 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.520 hundreds of anti virals in development, two hundred fifty about 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.480 so to speak, Um, and viruses are really uniquely difficult 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.760 to attack with drugs. I don't think we, you know, 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:20.000 in the press, speak enough about the complexity of developing therapeutics. 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.960 These viruses hijack human cells and set up machinery to 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.840 turn out copies of themselves within the body, which creates 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:30.760 a real challenge. How do you destroy the virus without 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:34.359 harming those cells? And success when it comes can be 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:38.520 quite fleeting because, as we've already seen, viruses mutape to survive. 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:41.240 So Mark is the leader of the pack. We could 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.280 see data before the end of the month. Um, should 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.320 it prove safe and effective? Which is a real question. Um, 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.840 it's likely to be that data is likely to be 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:53.000 the backbone of an emergency use authorization here in the US. 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.240 So if it happens for emergency use authorization here in 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:58.880 the US, and we're at a point where we've been 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.320 really gotten on a good job with becoming vaccinated, does 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.520 then that does that then mean that this moves into 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:09.760 the global fight against COVID. Yeah, that's a fabulous question. 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:11.800 For one, I think there will still be need here. 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:14.880 We've got a great population that's vaccine hesitant. We've got 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:18.560 um a population under the age of sixteen that doesn't 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:23.400 have access. But globally, this is definitely necessary and compared 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:25.240 to some of the other tools out there, like the 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.880 monoclonal an embody like gileads RUM does a viere, it's 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:31.840 also poised to be much cheaper as an alternative. It's 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:35.520 not in hours long infusion that is required to be 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:39.000 given in specialized settings. UM. It's what we call a 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:43.199 mall molecule, which means the manufacturing is much more simple. 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:47.400 And Mark says it can churn out about ten million courses, 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:50.240 which is a hundred million pills. You take it twice 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.159 a day for five days UM within the span of 0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.679 this year. But in our interviews Mark also said, and 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:00.920 mind you, Mark is so global health oriented. They said 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:05.480 that they want to create licenses that basically allow other 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:09.080 manufacturers to make this pill to should it prove safe 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:15.280 and effective, thereby um creating greater access worldwide. Well, let's 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.400