Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanibek. We're here every day bringing
Speaker 1: you the latest news from the world of business and finance,
Speaker 1: plus technology, politics, economics, all furnessing the power of Business
Speaker 1: Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and
Speaker 1: analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can
Speaker 1: download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com.
Speaker 1: You can also listen to our radio show at two
Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on
Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. President bind planning to announce
Speaker 1: that n of US adults will be eligible to get
Speaker 1: a COVID nineteen vaccine in three weeks three weeks, and
Speaker 1: that his administration will more than double the number of
Speaker 1: pharmacies where shots are available. This according to officials familiar
Speaker 1: with the matter, we are expected to hear from the
Speaker 1: President shortly to know where we should everybody to d
Speaker 1: c when we should be hearing from him in just
Speaker 1: a few minutes. We're also seeing some other headlines. The
Speaker 1: reason the President will be able to say that is
Speaker 1: because states like New York. Just announcing that the vast
Speaker 1: majority of adult we'll be able to get vaccines starting
Speaker 1: very soon, doesn't mean that they can get them just
Speaker 1: with the you know, they can access to them, they're
Speaker 1: eligible to them. This comes to is ahead of the
Speaker 1: CDC pleaded with Americans to wear masks again. Listen, hospitalizations
Speaker 1: are going up, cases are going up, and deaths allogging
Speaker 1: indicator have also started to rise. Again. Let's bring in
Speaker 1: doctor Heather Failing, chief scientific officer at Clinical Reference Labs.
Speaker 1: She is on the phone in Kansas, doctor Failing. Nice
Speaker 1: to have you here with Tim and me. That bulk
Speaker 1: of headlines again, great that there seems to be more
Speaker 1: vaccines out there. Not so great that cases, hospitalizations, uh,
Speaker 1: and the like are going up. How do you see it? Yes, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I agree with that, and we definitely need to stay vigilant,
Speaker 1: you know, in our mask wearing as well as in
Speaker 1: our testing measures. I think that's key, you know, keeping
Speaker 1: everyone safe and especially as the variants are uh, you know,
Speaker 1: continuing to spread, which is affecting transmissibility. Why do you
Speaker 1: think we are seeing this uptick? Is it because people
Speaker 1: are are just not being vigilant? We saw so many
Speaker 1: images in the last few weeks about spring breakers. People
Speaker 1: have been cooped up for more than a year at
Speaker 1: this point. Maybe people saw the numbers going down and
Speaker 1: thought they were safer than they actually are. Why do
Speaker 1: you think we're seeing it? Yes, I agree, I think
Speaker 1: it's all of that. I think we've seen a little
Speaker 1: bit of COVID fatigue. Folks are you know, a little
Speaker 1: bit tired of all of the COVID measures. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: we've come against spring break and as well. You know,
Speaker 1: a lot of folks are getting the vaccine. Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's starting to cut down on some of the
Speaker 1: masks wearing. But they really need to to stay vigilant,
Speaker 1: and yeah, keep those measures up so we can really
Speaker 1: curb this bread. So we have to stay vigilant. We
Speaker 1: know that masks social distancing. We're gonna talk shortly with
Speaker 1: our own Riley Griffin about COVID pill that could come
Speaker 1: from Mark uh and kind of a way that would
Speaker 1: give us a new treatment and a weapon against coronaviruses
Speaker 1: and future pandemics. You guys are also involved in creating tools,
Speaker 1: you know, for ways for us to man something like
Speaker 1: a COVID nineteen tell us about wearables and the role
Speaker 1: that they might play going forward. Oh. Absolutely, and you're
Speaker 1: at Clinical Reference Lab. We're really excited by a partnership
Speaker 1: that we put into play with Stanford to use wearables
Speaker 1: for the early detection of COVID nineteen. And how this
Speaker 1: works is eligible study participants are provided a wearable that's
Speaker 1: made by Impatica as well as thirty days of CRLs
Speaker 1: at homes saliva based rapid CRLs. It's a it's an
Speaker 1: at home saliva based collection kit for COVID nineteen and
Speaker 1: it has FDA Emergency Use authorization for self collection. And
Speaker 1: so the study of using the individual's biometric data from
Speaker 1: their wearable like body temperature, heart rate, and even electrodermal activity,
Speaker 1: which are basically just micro sweats. It's a form of
Speaker 1: a stress sensor. And these metrics are then used to
Speaker 1: track changes that might indicate possible infection and the CRL
Speaker 1: rapid response COVID testing comes into play uh to confirm
Speaker 1: actual infection. So in other words, like is it going
Speaker 1: to tract a higher temperature and then that can tell
Speaker 1: you to go get a test, because I'm going to
Speaker 1: say I get warm just running around this office. So
Speaker 1: so how is it something that's actually intuitive and actually
Speaker 1: maybe a really reliable indicator that there's something more than
Speaker 1: just a spike in your temperature, a normal spike in
Speaker 1: your temperature, right, And there are different levels of alert.
Speaker 1: So the algorithm is programmed to understand that there could
Speaker 1: be temporary elevations caused by stress or you know, alcohol
Speaker 1: or working out things of that nature, and so UM
Speaker 1: it is trained to understand, you know, more serious alerts,
Speaker 1: and it will alert the user or the participant in
Speaker 1: the study. You know, have you had exercise yes or no?
Speaker 1: And so it'll just kind of mark that and then
Speaker 1: the more serious alerts UM. You know, they definitely need to,
Speaker 1: you know, do this year all rapid response test to
Speaker 1: confirm potential infection there dr fail. How how are you
Speaker 1: thinking about this being endemic when we're on the other
Speaker 1: side of this pandemic, because it does feel like with
Speaker 1: you know, what we're going to hear from the president. Reportedly,
Speaker 1: according to sources you tell Bloomberg News of the country
Speaker 1: has access to a vaccine or is eligible for a
Speaker 1: vaccine at this point that we are getting close to
Speaker 1: to at least having the ability for almost every single
Speaker 1: American adult to have to get this vaccine, and if
Speaker 1: that is the case, then we can be on the
Speaker 1: other side of this pandemic. Like the President said in July, correct,
Speaker 1: I think we are going to see that. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, COVID will become more like a diasonal flu
Speaker 1: as it becomes endemic, and we'll need those booster vaccines
Speaker 1: that are variant specific and and just kind of a
Speaker 1: regular watch of symptoms. And that's why I think the
Speaker 1: wearable technology is so important, because it's more of a
Speaker 1: passive testing technology. It's just sitting there in the background, monitoring,
Speaker 1: and it can then prompt you that you know something
Speaker 1: is amiss here, you need to pay attention and potentially
Speaker 1: get it past. And what's nice is it identifies you
Speaker 1: in that pre symptomatic phase when you would be uh,
Speaker 1: you know, more higher to transmit the disease as compared
Speaker 1: to other stages. Are you guys anticipating that the likes
Speaker 1: of Apple and others, some of these high tech firms
Speaker 1: already Apple Watch and some others that are out there,
Speaker 1: that this is going to be something that they're going
Speaker 1: to be pursuing. I'm curious if you guys are having
Speaker 1: any conversations with the likes of Apple and other high
Speaker 1: tech companies about you know, amping up their health monitoring applications. Oh. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and others are involved in similar requests for different applications. UH.
Speaker 1: Fit that has has been involved and even they've donated
Speaker 1: devices as part of Stanford studies and UM as part
Speaker 1: of Stanford's program. If that you do have a wearable UH,
Speaker 1: you can actually go to the Apple app store and
Speaker 1: UH there is an app there that you can download
Speaker 1: called my PhD UM and this is their study app
Speaker 1: and it doesn't require a p HD like the name says,
Speaker 1: it actually stands for my Personal Health Dashboard. And so
Speaker 1: you can download the app and roll in the study
Speaker 1: and then use your own wearable UH, including an Apple
Speaker 1: Watch to to monitor COVID nineteen as well as as
Speaker 1: other potential infectious diseases. What's the regulatory approval process like
Speaker 1: for this? You know, if you're using it in more
Speaker 1: of a general wellness sense, UM, it's it's not as strict,
Speaker 1: but correct. When you do get into a disease diagnosis, UH,
Speaker 1: you know, you do need to pursue some sort of
Speaker 1: a regulatory pathway like an FD You have to get
Speaker 1: FDA clearance as a medical devices right, if you're doing
Speaker 1: a diagnostic that's is this going to do that? Um?
Speaker 1: I know there have been discussions about it. It's because
Speaker 1: it's kind of That's why I ask about the idea
Speaker 1: of it's going to be endemic versus pandemic, because that
Speaker 1: type of process can take a significant amount of time. Right,
Speaker 1: it can take time. But you know, I believe with
Speaker 1: the f d A, I mean CRL, we've taken a
Speaker 1: test through the FDA and with the Emergency Use Authorization
Speaker 1: path A. You know, that's a great pathway to be
Speaker 1: the process of review and an authorization. Hey, one thing
Speaker 1: I'm curious to, well, what does this cost? What will
Speaker 1: it cost an individual? Um? I'm not sure exactly on
Speaker 1: the cost of the app itself. Right now, it's available
Speaker 1: for free for download. And you know, we've talked with
Speaker 1: you in the past about your COVID nineteen saliva tests.
Speaker 1: In terms of it's been a year and counting since
Speaker 1: we all began all of this. What have we learned
Speaker 1: about those saliva tests and those you know tests in
Speaker 1: general that so many of us have done so many times.
Speaker 1: Have they gotten better? Have we learned how to do
Speaker 1: them better? What have we learned in this process, Yes,
Speaker 1: I definitely been. Folks have learned to do them better.
Speaker 1: And here at Zero, we've done over six hundred thousand
Speaker 1: saliva tests in our lab and we've really demonstrated of
Speaker 1: utility and the accuracy of our saliva based tests and UH.
Speaker 1: Since we've launched and since we left Folk, we've partnered
Speaker 1: with DNA Geno Tech as well of the CDC in
Speaker 1: our local public health lab to do viral strain analysis. UM,
Speaker 1: so we've recently we've been learning a lot about the
Speaker 1: different strains that we've been seeing, and we're seeing Brazilian
Speaker 1: variants like p to the UK variant, California, and a
Speaker 1: whole host of others. So it's really been fascinating to
Speaker 1: look at those different variants and transmissibility within schools and workplaces.
Speaker 1: So vaccinations and UH testing are certainly a part of it,
Speaker 1: but another big part of it is is treatment. And
Speaker 1: in just a few minutes a little later in the show,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be speaking with our US healthcare reporter Riley
Speaker 1: Griffin about a great new piece that's in the magazine
Speaker 1: about Mark's COVID pill being a frontrunner in the elusive
Speaker 1: anti viral quest. How do you see treatments playing out
Speaker 1: over the next couple of years, Considering the US and
Speaker 1: the UK and Israel are really the only places in
Speaker 1: the world at this point that have huge, significant vaccine
Speaker 1: programs that are underway right now, I think, yeah, treatment
Speaker 1: is definitely going to become key, and I think if
Speaker 1: we can get in a treatment that's similar to a
Speaker 1: Tama flu, I think we're going to go a long
Speaker 1: way into comparing this virus. But I also think the
Speaker 1: early detection is even you know, also have a big part. Yeah,
Speaker 1: good to know covered a lot of ground. Dr Heather Failing,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Chief scientific officer at Clinical Reference Labs,
Speaker 1: joining us on the phone from Kansas. This is Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim
Speaker 1: Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. The force liquidation of more than
Speaker 1: twenty billion dollars in holdings linked to Bill Whang's investment
Speaker 1: from drawing attention to the covert financial instruments he used
Speaker 1: to build large stakes in the companies. The stock market
Speaker 1: may be largely shrugging it off, but the individual stocks
Speaker 1: that were the target of his trades, they are not
Speaker 1: let's get into what you need to know. And certainly
Speaker 1: the banks involved are not shrugging this off. She not
Speaker 1: Arajan is finance reporter at Bloomberg New is on the
Speaker 1: phone in New York City. First of all, who is
Speaker 1: Bill Hwang? Because all of a sudden, we're talking about
Speaker 1: this individual that is not very well known to Wall
Speaker 1: Street Tree Um and kudas to you guys for breaking this.
Speaker 1: So what do we need to know? Try try try
Speaker 1: asking the who's Bill jeg question to Nomura and Curt
Speaker 1: exactly Bill Huang, Let's do a quick biography on him.
Speaker 1: In the ninety nineties work for Julian Robertson and Tiger
Speaker 1: Uh went off to set off his set off and
Speaker 1: started his on hedge fund Tiger Asia got the title
Speaker 1: of a so called Tiger Club. He was feaded by
Speaker 1: Julians Robertson was doing really well and hedge sharted a
Speaker 1: short rise in a quick rise, But then came two
Speaker 1: thousand twelve when he was charged over inside and trading
Speaker 1: his hedge when admitted to wire fraud and effectively had
Speaker 1: to shut down the hedge fund, return all the outside
Speaker 1: money and turn into a family office. But since then
Speaker 1: he seems to have had this improbable second chance were
Speaker 1: again he grew into a major force in the market,
Speaker 1: largely with the use of borrowed money to make massive,
Speaker 1: massive wages on a few concentrated positions. And uh, that's
Speaker 1: pretty much water has led us to this breathtaking unraveling
Speaker 1: that we've seen over the last two days. Okay, so
Speaker 1: let's go back just to you Thursday Friday and what
Speaker 1: happened last week, specifically with Viacom, CBS and and and Discovery.
Speaker 1: Talk to us about the big block trads there and
Speaker 1: why Huang was exposed. Sure, we're still trying to piece
Speaker 1: together exactly what all triggered this mad dash to unload stuff,
Speaker 1: but from what we understand, the main source of Quang's
Speaker 1: funding with these swaps that he had struck up with
Speaker 1: major Waltreet finances, prime brokers from Goldman Sax to Morgan
Speaker 1: Stanley to Kred Sweets and Deutsche Bank and Amora, which
Speaker 1: which allowed him to have a big exposure Wednesday afternoon.
Speaker 1: We know that there was a Viacom equity deal that
Speaker 1: sent its stock slumping some. There were some other moves
Speaker 1: that we speculated were also positions in which Wang was
Speaker 1: present in a large visible manners that had also gone
Speaker 1: against him. This led to some panic that many of
Speaker 1: the big banks, which were worried about their exposure and
Speaker 1: whether margin limits were going to be breached. They tried
Speaker 1: to work out an arrangement, but by Friday it was
Speaker 1: clear that each on their own they tried to save
Speaker 1: the collateral, make sure that they could find bias for
Speaker 1: that block and stem their losses. From what we can see,
Speaker 1: Goldman Sachs seems to have emerged from this incident, at
Speaker 1: least as of now. They're telling some of their clients
Speaker 1: that largely unscaped. But on the other hand, you have
Speaker 1: places like Nomura, which says it has a two billion
Speaker 1: claim against this client, which could expose them to a
Speaker 1: significant loss in credit s ways, which hasn't put a
Speaker 1: figure to it, but it's also clearly flagged that there
Speaker 1: is a big possible hit that they might have to
Speaker 1: take shreck. What strikes me and all of this is
Speaker 1: that if the VIA companies didn't come out, and if
Speaker 1: fire Colm Shares didn't start to maybe tank, that maybe
Speaker 1: we would have this wouldn't have happened and we would
Speaker 1: have never known about it. What seems to be a
Speaker 1: somewhat risky trade with incredible exposure that has gone horribly wrong,
Speaker 1: and it just makes me think about the system overall
Speaker 1: and the lack of checks and balances. Oh absolutely, as
Speaker 1: we as we pick up the pieces from this garnage
Speaker 1: and we move ahead from this point, one of the
Speaker 1: big things that will play out, and I think something
Speaker 1: that the regulators may very well pay attention to, is
Speaker 1: this idea of on a non leveraged house bit that
Speaker 1: one family office could the mass positions of this sizing
Speaker 1: tens of billions of dollars without anyone really knowing about it.
Speaker 1: If you were a regular hedge fund, that is going
Speaker 1: out and buying, if taken a company you need to
Speaker 1: in the U S company you would have to put
Speaker 1: out if I think then there are various sec supports
Speaker 1: you have to file when you have outside money. The
Speaker 1: fact that he was using spots, the fact that Bill
Speaker 1: Hongs was Bill Hongs family office and not and did
Speaker 1: not have any other outside money, you were left in
Speaker 1: a situation where none of those requirements apply, and you
Speaker 1: had a from that was effectively a large will in
Speaker 1: the market. And yet barely anyone talked about this from
Speaker 1: and now everyone's sitting up and taking notice. That is
Speaker 1: a problem. Yeah, imagine regulators are going to be looking
Speaker 1: at that question pretty closely, Sree. I wonder when it
Speaker 1: comes to risk management, how a financial institution thinks about
Speaker 1: somebody who may have had some regulatory challenges in the past,
Speaker 1: charge of it trading regulatory I'm trying to I mean,
Speaker 1: is it rare that That's look, Wall Street is full
Speaker 1: of second acts and third acts, But is it rare
Speaker 1: that somebody of this profile would be able to build
Speaker 1: such a sizeable war dress chest with several different banks,
Speaker 1: given this history like Goldman and Morgan and the venerable
Speaker 1: Wall Street firm Street. Oh look, I mean, Timm, you
Speaker 1: do say that Wall streets for the second chances and
Speaker 1: third chances, But just step away two blocks from Wall
Speaker 1: Street on the main street and ask people how how
Speaker 1: often do people get their second chance in the third chance?
Speaker 1: The question here really is how did someone who was
Speaker 1: so publicly shamed they were inside a trading hedge fund
Speaker 1: admitting to wire fraud such a rebound to become become
Speaker 1: a big force in the market. Was to your of
Speaker 1: the commission and the interest that flowed to all these
Speaker 1: dealers so blinding that they were all willingly happy to
Speaker 1: give this film a second chance. And maybe maybe the
Speaker 1: argument in right be but crimes that took place in
Speaker 1: two thousand eight, more than a decade it past, and
Speaker 1: it was it was located to do business. But it
Speaker 1: is definitely something that does not sit well with everyone,
Speaker 1: like why would Well should be so eager and willing
Speaker 1: to do business with him? And what does it say
Speaker 1: about our markets? It's the repercussions for something as serious
Speaker 1: as the charges of insider trading are so minimal. Yeah, listen,
Speaker 1: I feel like there's lots of questions out there, and
Speaker 1: you have to wonder about the phone conversations and phones
Speaker 1: ringing cell phones, you know, the text messages and ringing
Speaker 1: with David Solomon over at Goldman everybody who heads up
Speaker 1: one of these firms like what's our position? What's our
Speaker 1: risk here? Uh? And all of their risk teams kind
Speaker 1: of looking at the situation and how it got there.
Speaker 1: Shre unbelievable reporting. You guys breaking this? You breaking this?
Speaker 1: Our finance reporter at Bloomberg News on the phone in
Speaker 1: New York City. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol
Speaker 1: Masser and Bloomberg Quick takes Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: Let's get into our next story because it's in the magazine.
Speaker 1: It's a story about Mark's COVID pill, and Tim, it's
Speaker 1: about how it could be a front runner in the
Speaker 1: world elusive anti viral quest. This might be just another
Speaker 1: tool in the toolkit that we need. Yeah, and we
Speaker 1: need a big toolkit with a global pandemic. Joel Webber
Speaker 1: is editor at Bloomberg Business Week, joining us on the
Speaker 1: remote from Brooklyn. Riley Griffin, us healthcare reporter for a
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News joins us on the phone from here in
Speaker 1: New York. Joel, we talked about vaccines. We heard from
Speaker 1: the President just now about the vaccination efforts. Where does
Speaker 1: treatment fit in, Well, we haven't had any reason for
Speaker 1: it to fit in, and that's because we just have
Speaker 1: not had that many tools in the pipeline. And that's
Speaker 1: what's significant about the story that Riley and or co
Speaker 1: author Cynthia Coon's brought to this week's issue of the magazine,
Speaker 1: Um which you know, there's this little pill that Mark
Speaker 1: has been developing. It's one of several hundred different varieties
Speaker 1: of treatments that are basically underway right now, but based
Speaker 1: on on the reporting, we think Marx is maybe closest
Speaker 1: to some data which could be forthcoming within a matter
Speaker 1: of days, and that will really give us a look
Speaker 1: at UM. What we all hope is another chapter in
Speaker 1: this fight against COVID which would start to look like treatment,
Speaker 1: something that you could give someone when they get sick. UM.
Speaker 1: That's different than the vaccine. Obviously we need the vaccines too,
Speaker 1: but what happens if someone has a vaccine, is vaccinated,
Speaker 1: get sick or for all of those people out there
Speaker 1: who might not have a vaccine, and that's where this
Speaker 1: merc development comes in. So so Riley talk to us
Speaker 1: a little bit about what an anti viral with the
Speaker 1: promise of an anti viral like this anti viral is
Speaker 1: that hundreds of thousands of people continue to contract COVID
Speaker 1: each and every day, So we need those therapies UM
Speaker 1: to get to patients quickly at the beginning of their disease. Cynthia,
Speaker 1: my colleague and I like to bring this as tama
Speaker 1: fluper covid, something that could be deployed broadly to your sister,
Speaker 1: your grandparents, those high risk, those low risks at the
Speaker 1: earliest course of their disease. As you said, there are
Speaker 1: hundreds of anti virals in development, two hundred fifty about
Speaker 1: so to speak, Um, and viruses are really uniquely difficult
Speaker 1: to attack with drugs. I don't think we, you know,
Speaker 1: in the press, speak enough about the complexity of developing therapeutics.
Speaker 1: These viruses hijack human cells and set up machinery to
Speaker 1: turn out copies of themselves within the body, which creates
Speaker 1: a real challenge. How do you destroy the virus without
Speaker 1: harming those cells? And success when it comes can be
Speaker 1: quite fleeting because, as we've already seen, viruses mutape to survive.
Speaker 1: So Mark is the leader of the pack. We could
Speaker 1: see data before the end of the month. Um, should
Speaker 1: it prove safe and effective? Which is a real question. Um,
Speaker 1: it's likely to be that data is likely to be
Speaker 1: the backbone of an emergency use authorization here in the US.
Speaker 1: So if it happens for emergency use authorization here in
Speaker 1: the US, and we're at a point where we've been
Speaker 1: really gotten on a good job with becoming vaccinated, does
Speaker 1: then that does that then mean that this moves into
Speaker 1: the global fight against COVID. Yeah, that's a fabulous question.
Speaker 1: For one, I think there will still be need here.
Speaker 1: We've got a great population that's vaccine hesitant. We've got
Speaker 1: um a population under the age of sixteen that doesn't
Speaker 1: have access. But globally, this is definitely necessary and compared
Speaker 1: to some of the other tools out there, like the
Speaker 1: monoclonal an embody like gileads RUM does a viere, it's
Speaker 1: also poised to be much cheaper as an alternative. It's
Speaker 1: not in hours long infusion that is required to be
Speaker 1: given in specialized settings. UM. It's what we call a
Speaker 1: mall molecule, which means the manufacturing is much more simple.
Speaker 1: And Mark says it can churn out about ten million courses,
Speaker 1: which is a hundred million pills. You take it twice
Speaker 1: a day for five days UM within the span of
Speaker 1: this year. But in our interviews Mark also said, and
Speaker 1: mind you, Mark is so global health oriented. They said
Speaker 1: that they want to create licenses that basically allow other
Speaker 1: manufacturers to make this pill to should it prove safe
Speaker 1: and effective, thereby um creating greater access worldwide. Well, let's
Speaker 1: just stick with Mirk here, because Murk is very well
Speaker 1: known for its public health work. Uh it fell short
Speaker 1: on its vaccine efforts. What's that stake here for for
Speaker 1: Mark when this data comes out Joel, that was a
Speaker 1: big disappointment earlier in the year when Mark two vaccine
Speaker 1: candidates both showed lackluster data in early clinical trials. I
Speaker 1: think they need a big win, not just because they
Speaker 1: want to put their stamp on the pandemic and show
Speaker 1: that they can have an impact here too. Of course
Speaker 1: they're helping manufacturer jane Ja's vaccine, But let's think longer
Speaker 1: term about Mark's business model. This is a company that
Speaker 1: has become highly reliant on one product alone, key Truda,
Speaker 1: a cancer product UM that is making up a great
Speaker 1: chunk of their revenue, and investors keep asking what's next
Speaker 1: in the pipeline? So Muli peer of your could partially
Speaker 1: be that. And I think what Mark has said to
Speaker 1: us UM they're very eager to know is whether this
Speaker 1: has broad spectrum activity? What does that mean? Can this
Speaker 1: pill work not just in cobon nineteen, but in other coronaviruses,
Speaker 1: in other viruses period, thinky bola. And if it does
Speaker 1: have that broad spectrum activity, and mind you, that's quite rare, um,
Speaker 1: it could certainly be more like a ten billion dollar
Speaker 1: drug rather than a one billion dollar drug per year?
Speaker 1: What about And I know the company is studying a
Speaker 1: variety of dosages as you report, but what about risk concerns?
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering, is this the kind of thing you've
Speaker 1: got to wait a couple of years to really understand
Speaker 1: the risk impact. So the greatest risk that we've heard
Speaker 1: broadly from the scientific community comes to genetic beauty. And
Speaker 1: that's back to the fact that this is a kind
Speaker 1: of drug. It's called a nucleuside analog that basically works
Speaker 1: by interfering with the replication of the virus by inducing
Speaker 1: errors into the viruses RNA that are then rest replicated
Speaker 1: until it's defunct. Put much more simply, somebody explained this
Speaker 1: in this analogy. If you put a grain of sand
Speaker 1: into the gears, you might stop its motion, but you
Speaker 1: don't know where the sand end up elsewhere in the body.
Speaker 1: Um that has been a concern. I think molecule has
Speaker 1: been around for decades, so that's been a concern for
Speaker 1: a little while. But Mark, there are very conservative presence
Speaker 1: in the pharmaceutical industry and they have conducted a number
Speaker 1: of tests um to to study whether this could potentially
Speaker 1: be UH cause genetic mutations, and they say the data
Speaker 1: as far as clear. Of course, everybody's going to be
Speaker 1: looking for that in the phase two three data that
Speaker 1: comes out within days. But from what we know now,
Speaker 1: Mark is confident and comfortable. And some who have previously
Speaker 1: been critical of model in the pier of year have
Speaker 1: actually changed their tune since Murk came in UM to
Speaker 1: the picture and actually began developing this alongside a smaller biotech.
Speaker 1: And let's just talk about that smaller biotech for a second,
Speaker 1: because I always think these stories are are amazing, Like
Speaker 1: to take us back even at the beginning of before
Speaker 1: the pandemic UH struck Riley, and what was what was
Speaker 1: how did this all come together? What was the players?
Speaker 1: Who were the players? Just got about seconds? Riley. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is a little bit of pharma industry one oh one.
Speaker 1: A lot of the time, big pharmaceutical players come in
Speaker 1: and they actually acquire or they licensed assets from smaller biotech.
Speaker 1: In this case, that biotech was ridge Back Bio. And
Speaker 1: if you take if you go back to the outset
Speaker 1: of January at one of the world's biggest healthcare conferences,
Speaker 1: JP Morgan, they're UM the chief executive Officer Bridge Back Bio.
Speaker 1: Wendy Holman was meeting in a hotel in San Francisco
Speaker 1: with George Painter of Emory University and she actually could
Speaker 1: a deal with Emery for the for the drug. Eight
Speaker 1: months later it was in Merc's hands. So that's the
Speaker 1: story history. There's a lot that goes into it. Check
Speaker 1: out the story. It's incredible, guys, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Jill Webber, Riley Griffin. This is Bloomberg Business Week with
Speaker 1: Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: I'm bloom the Journal. Yeah, but you let me drive.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no, who's going to run? Please?
Speaker 1: I'll drivel. I want to drive. Just drive, baby, it's
Speaker 1: the question Dry. This is the Drive to the Globe Comics.
Speaker 1: We'll drive us. Dawn on Bomber Radio. All right, just
Speaker 1: got about nine minutes left in today's trading session. Let's
Speaker 1: do the drive to the close. David's back with us,
Speaker 1: managing Principal and senior portfolio Strategies at Pepack Private Wealth
Speaker 1: Management eight billion in assets under management. David joining Tim
Speaker 1: and myself once again on the phone in Summat New Jersey, David,
Speaker 1: nice to have you here. Uh, what's interesting is we
Speaker 1: are focused big time on this hedge fund actually family office,
Speaker 1: and this kind of unwinding of twenty billion dollars worth
Speaker 1: of trades. I'm just curious. We're talking about Articos Capital Management.
Speaker 1: We're all kind of continuing to gather more and more information,
Speaker 1: but it helps explain some of the crazy trading that
Speaker 1: we saw in some names like Viacom and others last week.
Speaker 1: What's your view on this. You're someone who's been trading
Speaker 1: in the markets for a long time. How do you
Speaker 1: see it? What is it that we need to know
Speaker 1: from your perspective? So, Carol, good to be with you
Speaker 1: and Tim. Um, So we're watching this closely. We don't
Speaker 1: have all the fact X. I think it's obviously not
Speaker 1: a positive for the markets, but I would caution our
Speaker 1: clients and investor generally not to overreact. A couple of
Speaker 1: rolls of thumb. One is hedge fund implosions, unfortunately are
Speaker 1: not an infrequent occurrence on the landscape, but typically they
Speaker 1: do not provide systemic cause systemic crisis, and and that's
Speaker 1: kind of what we're saying here. Um, we're seeing extreme
Speaker 1: volatility in some media names via Common Discovery as two
Speaker 1: of them, and of course some of the Chinese tech stocks.
Speaker 1: But overall, uh, you know, the market is the that
Speaker 1: was in positive territory today. The Dow ended up strongling
Speaker 1: on Friday afternoons first broke. We're seeing some volatility and
Speaker 1: the banking names um, which is worth watching, but again
Speaker 1: we're not hearing or seeing anything that would cause the
Speaker 1: systemic risk UM going forward. What would I watch for one,
Speaker 1: is you know, to what extent does this cause banks
Speaker 1: to be a little bit more cautious in lending, which
Speaker 1: perhaps is a slight a cloud on the recovery here.
Speaker 1: And of course we're coming up to these all important
Speaker 1: stress tests when the Federal Reserve is going to be
Speaker 1: looking at all the banks and deciding who can um
Speaker 1: start returning money to shareholders and who can't, And maybe
Speaker 1: those stress stress tests will be tightened a little bit.
Speaker 1: Maybe there's a little bit less cash in the coffers
Speaker 1: of the banks to distribute even if they pass the
Speaker 1: stress tests. So that's something I would I would watch closely,
Speaker 1: but you know, I don't think it changes a long
Speaker 1: term positive themes here. Okay, fair enough, Well, let's talk
Speaker 1: about some of those long term positive themes, David, David,
Speaker 1: because we have this conflicting sort of outlook when it
Speaker 1: comes to coronavirus. Vaccinations on the one hand, are going
Speaker 1: really well, three days in a row of more than
Speaker 1: three million doses each day. Some great stats shared by
Speaker 1: the President earlier in the day about just how many
Speaker 1: people and how quickly are getting vaccinated at the same
Speaker 1: time that we are seeing cases go up and hospitalizations
Speaker 1: go up in on areas. How concerned are you about
Speaker 1: a potential fourth wave? Well, it's definitely on our radar.
Speaker 1: Is probably, of course, was the factor in causing the
Speaker 1: downturn last year. It's been the factor as the vaccines
Speaker 1: were announced to lift us out of it. You know,
Speaker 1: I think investors have to realize it was never gonna
Speaker 1: be one, two, three, four or five, rather than like
Speaker 1: two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, one
Speaker 1: step back. So I think the good news is we're
Speaker 1: having a great at least in this country rollout of
Speaker 1: the vaccines. We've got three now Fiser, Madonna, J and J.
Speaker 1: I think Astrodnica will soon be approved. Novavax is on
Speaker 1: the horizon. You know, here's what we have to watch for,
Speaker 1: of course, is the fact that there's lagging vaccination overseas.
Speaker 1: To what extent does that blowback in the United States?
Speaker 1: To what extent is that a damper on international trade?
Speaker 1: Of course, you've got the mutations. To what extent did
Speaker 1: the current vaccine is going to handle that? We're optimistic,
Speaker 1: but you've got to watch it. And of course I
Speaker 1: think we're realizing now that we've got to get the
Speaker 1: approval for the U stegious vaccines with the kids, because
Speaker 1: without the kids being vaccinated, we're going to be unlikely
Speaker 1: to develop her immunity and that's going to be the
Speaker 1: final nail in the coffin, we hope in terms of
Speaker 1: this epidemic. So, um, David, when it comes to trading
Speaker 1: in the equity market, do you set up for you
Speaker 1: continue the recovery trade or do you do how much?
Speaker 1: Do you be a little bit cautious here because we
Speaker 1: don't know if we'll get another wave? How do you
Speaker 1: play it? Yeah? So, um, we remain constructive here. Basically
Speaker 1: as we just discussed, COVID nineteen, progress going well and
Speaker 1: ultimately we have the low interest rates now I know
Speaker 1: they just touched another two thousand twenty one high here
Speaker 1: just over one point, but basically that's still low interest rate.
Speaker 1: It doesn't get retirees to where they need to be.
Speaker 1: It does not allow endowments and charitable funds to make
Speaker 1: the distributions they want. So we still think that there's
Speaker 1: a wall of money into stocks. And guess what this
Speaker 1: economy is recovering. The forecast GDP six or more. Core
Speaker 1: earning is going to be as much as versus last
Speaker 1: year and another ten percent last year. So we really
Speaker 1: think if you roll up your sleeves, there's lots of
Speaker 1: opportunities relative to keep in cash under the mattress. Now
Speaker 1: in terms of uh, you know what areas of the market, Well,
Speaker 1: you want to be diversified. But on the other hand,
Speaker 1: you know last year growth with scary stre in the
Speaker 1: pandemics to people chase the megacap text this year, I
Speaker 1: think worth is going to be more plentiful, so you
Speaker 1: can go for the value place, all right, Canna leave
Speaker 1: it on that note, Hey, David, Thanks David Eats, he's
Speaker 1: managing principal senior portfolio Strategies at Pepack Private Wealth Management.
Speaker 1: Joining us on the phone from New Jersey. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud,
Speaker 1: or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to
Speaker 1: our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio
Speaker 1: or watch us on YouTube. Sara to Bloomberg Global News