1
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,560
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane.

2
00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 1: Never told your production of iHeart Radio, and y'all, I

3
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,239
Speaker 1: don't know. We told you at the very beginning of

4
00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,319
Speaker 1: the year we're going to bring in more interviews and

5
00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,880
Speaker 1: more amazing conversations, and we are getting to do that

6
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,720
Speaker 1: again today and we're so excited to have Paco da Leon.

7
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:31,920
Speaker 1: Can you introduce yourself to our listeners. Hi, I am

8
00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:33,920
Speaker 1: so happy to be here. My name is Paco de

9
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,479
Speaker 1: Leon and I'm a personal finance expert and author and

10
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:42,720
Speaker 1: illustrator and I've had lots of different jobs in financial

11
00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,839
Speaker 1: services and it all kind of collapsed and led me

12
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,120
Speaker 1: to where I am now, where I do stuff like this.

13
00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,280
Speaker 1: I go on the Internet and I talk to people

14
00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,840
Speaker 1: about money, and really my goal is to help people

15
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,160
Speaker 1: feel less weird about it, and I do that through

16
00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,600
Speaker 1: financial literacy. So edgy keating you on some of the topics,

17
00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,680
Speaker 1: trying to make things just more digestible and understandable. But

18
00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,600
Speaker 1: I also love, love, love talking about why we're so

19
00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,520
Speaker 1: weird about money, like what's going on in our feelings

20
00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,120
Speaker 1: and like let's dig in. And you know, I'm having

21
00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,800
Speaker 1: a great time and I'm so excited to keep doing

22
00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,480
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. I'm so excited to chat money with you, folks. Yes,

23
00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,440
Speaker 1: and we're so excited to talk with you about it

24
00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,760
Speaker 1: because you dig into some things and perspectives that I

25
00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,240
Speaker 1: didn't really think about. As a social worker, we talk

26
00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 1: about a lot of trauma issues and related to our

27
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,560
Speaker 1: stress and our feelings and sickness and our body, but

28
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,240
Speaker 1: we don't really talk about it. I've never really correlated

29
00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:45,119
Speaker 1: it to financial stress and financial thought processes. So looking

30
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,440
Speaker 1: into what you are doing, I'm like, yeah, oh my god,

31
00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,280
Speaker 1: of course this should go hand in hand. So I'm

32
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,720
Speaker 1: so excited that we get to dig into this in

33
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,960
Speaker 1: this perspective and you're bringing out the conversation about yeah,

34
00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,960
Speaker 1: let's stop, let's be weird and talk about why it's

35
00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 1: weird and then normal. So I'm excited to see what

36
00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,560
Speaker 1: you have done and when you continue to do so.

37
00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,960
Speaker 1: Thank you for being on Thanks for having me first

38
00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,359
Speaker 1: and foremost. I would keep saying that because I get

39
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,880
Speaker 1: really excited when we get to have someone who was

40
00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 1: so good at something that I'm in awe. I'm like, yes,

41
00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,400
Speaker 1: let me absorb all of your knowledge. I'm flattered you

42
00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,040
Speaker 1: shouldn't be because you're amazing that that's what you shouldn't

43
00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:27,240
Speaker 1: be flatter you should be like, yeah, that's right, Hell yeah.

44
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,720
Speaker 1: But yes, you've been in the financial industry for a while,

45
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,040
Speaker 1: and I know you took a big chance and leap

46
00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,040
Speaker 1: stepping out of that world into a space of teaching

47
00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,639
Speaker 1: and mentoring people who may not understand or as you say,

48
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,400
Speaker 1: feel weird about money and finances, including starting the group

49
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,840
Speaker 1: Hell Yeah Group. Can you tell us about your group

50
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,400
Speaker 1: and what made you go that route? Yeah? So the

51
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,200
Speaker 1: Hell Yeah Group really does two things. The first thing

52
00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:53,840
Speaker 1: we do is literally what you're experiencing right now, Like

53
00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,840
Speaker 1: I make content, and that content ranges right every week,

54
00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,640
Speaker 1: I put out a weekly email newsletter called a Nerd Letter,

55
00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:05,320
Speaker 1: and I have just started a podcast called Weird Finance.

56
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,720
Speaker 1: We're on the same record label, so to speak with iHeart,

57
00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,040
Speaker 1: So I'm doing that, and you know, I've written blog

58
00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,959
Speaker 1: posts and I participate aggressively on Instagram when it comes

59
00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 1: to making content. So we make content. And the other

60
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,920
Speaker 1: piece is I run a bookkeeping agency, and so my

61
00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,680
Speaker 1: company runs the bookkeeping and accounting for production companies mainly,

62
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,760
Speaker 1: but we also do it for marketing companies. We do

63
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,040
Speaker 1: it for interior design firms, event production companies, so any

64
00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,720
Speaker 1: kind of business that has multiple clients and multiple jobs

65
00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,800
Speaker 1: and just like lots of money moving through and it's creative.

66
00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,520
Speaker 1: That's where the space that we plan. And yeah, I mean,

67
00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 1: so how did I get here? Well, I was a

68
00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,000
Speaker 1: financial planner. I was an associate financial planner in Los

69
00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,760
Speaker 1: Angeles and it felt fancy and my ego was stroked.

70
00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,240
Speaker 1: Let me tell you, because I was in this building,

71
00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:02,080
Speaker 1: midweel share, Marble lobby, beautiful, right. I was like, I'm

72
00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,640
Speaker 1: smart and the world thinks I'm smart, and I've made it.

73
00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,880
Speaker 1: So I'm working my way up at this financial planning firm,

74
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,400
Speaker 1: and you know, my boss is working with like a

75
00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:18,159
Speaker 1: lot of Hollywood behind the camera executives. Everybody's like a

76
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 1: VP in Hollywood is one of the things I learned.

77
00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,160
Speaker 1: So a lot of vps and then a lot of agents,

78
00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,800
Speaker 1: and so I'm like sitting at the table, I'm like

79
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,479
Speaker 1: literally rolling calls with my boss. You know, I'm on

80
00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,600
Speaker 1: them on every call. He's he's talking people through all

81
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:37,119
Speaker 1: these complex ideas right there, He's coaching agents on Okay,

82
00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,000
Speaker 1: what's the strategy to earn more money. How are we

83
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,920
Speaker 1: going to go to CIAA and argue that you need

84
00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,560
Speaker 1: to be paid more or okay, oh crap, your marriage

85
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,480
Speaker 1: is falling apart. How you kind of have to take

86
00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,039
Speaker 1: meetings with a bunch of the top attorneys in Los

87
00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:54,640
Speaker 1: Angeles because once you do that, then your partner can't

88
00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,440
Speaker 1: go to those people. And so like that's how you

89
00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,119
Speaker 1: kind of play defense on that. So I'm like learning

90
00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,960
Speaker 1: all these little tid it's and I feel like what

91
00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,520
Speaker 1: a lot of marginalized people I recognize, feels like when

92
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,840
Speaker 1: you get this like little slice of privilege, right when

93
00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,240
Speaker 1: you get your foot in the door and then you

94
00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,040
Speaker 1: just throw your body through it into the room, right

95
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,320
Speaker 1: and you're sitting at the table, you're like, oh god,

96
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,920
Speaker 1: I'm grateful and everything, but like, maybe there's other people

97
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,400
Speaker 1: in the world, like all of my friends who are

98
00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:26,919
Speaker 1: you know, creative professionals who have no idea how this

99
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,720
Speaker 1: world works and they can't afford us. That was the

100
00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:37,160
Speaker 1: craziest revelation. So I eventually, you know, had an existential

101
00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,320
Speaker 1: crisis like we all do, and I thought, how can

102
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,640
Speaker 1: I take what I've learned and put a roof over

103
00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,320
Speaker 1: my head and food in my belly, but also help

104
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,360
Speaker 1: the people who need help the most? Can I can

105
00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 1: I help them without replicating this business model? And that

106
00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,960
Speaker 1: business model was you have to have a million dollars

107
00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,680
Speaker 1: to invest with me. Otherwise get out of here. I'm

108
00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:01,880
Speaker 1: not going to help you. I'm not going to talk

109
00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:03,320
Speaker 1: to you. Is there a way to do that? And

110
00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 1: so the Hell Yeah group was honestly just an experiment,

111
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,960
Speaker 1: and it continues to be an experiment. Right. The hypotheses is,

112
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,440
Speaker 1: you know, how can I help the most people? How

113
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,080
Speaker 1: can I shout the loudest and make this accessible and

114
00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 1: not a complete bore and help people help themselves. I

115
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:24,719
Speaker 1: love that and I love that aspect of like pulling

116
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,240
Speaker 1: people up with you and not just being the only one,

117
00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,239
Speaker 1: because we've seen so many conversations and so many people

118
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,080
Speaker 1: who do not understand just because they got that opportunity

119
00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,080
Speaker 1: that they're the only one. So there's a cap for

120
00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,359
Speaker 1: one or two people. And that's what happens when we

121
00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,440
Speaker 1: have marginalized groups being pitted against each other, which is

122
00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,800
Speaker 1: all uplifting white supremacy and the patriarch and all of that.

123
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:46,279
Speaker 1: You know, we always go down that road. But we

124
00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,960
Speaker 1: love hearing about how you look back and like, no,

125
00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:53,400
Speaker 1: I need to make sure that this is available for everyone,

126
00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,360
Speaker 1: because it's so rare to have that moment of realizing

127
00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,280
Speaker 1: it's more than me, and we need to make this

128
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:09,400
Speaker 1: a feasible thing. That's rare. That's sorry, I'm sorry, that's

129
00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,880
Speaker 1: that's kind of what I do. Welcome to the show.

130
00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,800
Speaker 1: Got it now? I know? Now, I've managed my expectations.

131
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,000
Speaker 1: It's not you're prepared. Now, you're prepared. You know what?

132
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,360
Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm digging into your site. It had a

133
00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,440
Speaker 1: lot of amazing articles. I know you right for finary

134
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,840
Speaker 1: twenty nine um, and I have a lot of good

135
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,440
Speaker 1: advice on there. UM. Something that you wrote that was

136
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,560
Speaker 1: really fascinating to me. You wrote clinical levels of depression

137
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,400
Speaker 1: and anxiety or unhealthy coping mechanism behaviors can develop like

138
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,400
Speaker 1: overspending and going into debt or taking big financial risks

139
00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:46,320
Speaker 1: to counteract feeling numb, which honestly made so much sense

140
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 1: as you said it, but I would have never connected

141
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,640
Speaker 1: it because again, like I said, I kind of would

142
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:53,440
Speaker 1: do one extreme or the other, and because I do

143
00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,080
Speaker 1: the emotional and trauma level, I didn't really think about

144
00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,520
Speaker 1: the downfall of finances and how it can go into it.

145
00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,800
Speaker 1: Can you talk about that and how overspending and going

146
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,720
Speaker 1: into debt can be an outcome of depression, anxiety or

147
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,760
Speaker 1: unhealthy coping. Yeah, I mean the thing about our financial

148
00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,400
Speaker 1: behaviors is, I'm not sure why exactly. We think that

149
00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 1: they exist in some kind of a silo, right, Like

150
00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,560
Speaker 1: we think something clicks in our brain and then we're

151
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,080
Speaker 1: going to deal with our money in a rational way,

152
00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,560
Speaker 1: even if we're like wiling out in other areas of

153
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,960
Speaker 1: our life. Right. So, I think it's really important to

154
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,680
Speaker 1: realize that so much of who we are and how

155
00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,720
Speaker 1: we behave is really interconnected. So you know, if you

156
00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:38,680
Speaker 1: grew up in an abusive household, emotional or physical, you

157
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,920
Speaker 1: might have issues with boundaries. And those issues of boundaries, Sure,

158
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,520
Speaker 1: they can look like you hate saying no to your

159
00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,640
Speaker 1: friends when they want to go out, But then when

160
00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,800
Speaker 1: you like double click on that, it's like you hate

161
00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,520
Speaker 1: saying no to your friends when they want to go out,

162
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,240
Speaker 1: so you overspend, right, And then maybe it extends even further.

163
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,960
Speaker 1: When you're out and you're dining out or going somewhere,

164
00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,840
Speaker 1: you don't speak up because again you don't you're letting

165
00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,480
Speaker 1: your boundaries get violated. So you don't say, oh, that

166
00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,319
Speaker 1: restaurant is a little pricey for me, it's out of

167
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,040
Speaker 1: my budget. Maybe you pick up the tab, or you

168
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,920
Speaker 1: pay for more than you've had, right instead of asking

169
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,680
Speaker 1: can we can we instead of splitting the check equally,

170
00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,520
Speaker 1: because I only had a salad and some bread, can

171
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,280
Speaker 1: I just pay for my share? Right? So there's all

172
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,240
Speaker 1: these different ways that we see this through line between

173
00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:33,520
Speaker 1: how we were shaped as adorable young humans and how

174
00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:35,880
Speaker 1: we behave with money in the future. And I think

175
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,200
Speaker 1: I really believe that part of the experience of being

176
00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,719
Speaker 1: a human being on planet Earth is to uncover who

177
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,000
Speaker 1: you are. It's to allow yourself to become the person

178
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,840
Speaker 1: that you're meant to be. And part of that process

179
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,880
Speaker 1: is painful. It's revisiting some of the things. You know,

180
00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,440
Speaker 1: the seeds that were planted, and those could be you know,

181
00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,679
Speaker 1: traumatic seeds, big tea and or little tea trauma. But

182
00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,080
Speaker 1: to discover that and to honor that that's part of

183
00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,400
Speaker 1: your story and that's who you are. That I think

184
00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,880
Speaker 1: is the first step in being able to take power

185
00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,120
Speaker 1: back and to kind of alchimize it and to turn

186
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,920
Speaker 1: it into something that's not just useful to you, but

187
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,920
Speaker 1: it's useful to other people. And like, I've been there.

188
00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,319
Speaker 1: I was an under earner for many years. I was

189
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,959
Speaker 1: a broke financial planner, if you can even wrap your

190
00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:29,040
Speaker 1: head around like the cognitive dissonance of that. And it

191
00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,960
Speaker 1: was painful, Like it was really painful to sit in

192
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,520
Speaker 1: front of people who went to Harvard and they have

193
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,800
Speaker 1: a five million dollar house and they're killing it, and

194
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,800
Speaker 1: then they're walking me through their ten million dollar house

195
00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,640
Speaker 1: in Beverly Hills, and to be like, I rode my

196
00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:44,719
Speaker 1: bike here to the job, and then I took a

197
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,640
Speaker 1: bird bath in the lobby because I can't afford gas. Right,

198
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,959
Speaker 1: But I let that pain become something else. I let

199
00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,440
Speaker 1: it alcimize and I let it change me, and I

200
00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,640
Speaker 1: let it give me a perspective. There's no way I'm

201
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:00,840
Speaker 1: the only one if I have a finance degree and

202
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,000
Speaker 1: an econ miner, and I'm struggling obviously knowing that the

203
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,600
Speaker 1: crap is not the one thing that's gonna make me

204
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,000
Speaker 1: change my behavior with finance. It's all these ways that

205
00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,200
Speaker 1: I've been programmed. It's all these internalizations of narratives, right,

206
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,680
Speaker 1: talk about the patriarchy and talk about the wage gap.

207
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,120
Speaker 1: I really internalized the crap out of those things, and

208
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:25,720
Speaker 1: I believed I just wasn't worth as much as someone else. Yeah,

209
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:31,000
Speaker 1: now I'm bumming you out, Samantha Hey. Equal opportunity a reality.

210
00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,240
Speaker 1: This is how I internalize all the things of like, yes,

211
00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,400
Speaker 1: give me the truth and then I'll just cry about

212
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:41,600
Speaker 1: it later. It's fun times here. Something else you talked

213
00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,280
Speaker 1: about was the window of tolerance. Can you explain that

214
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,320
Speaker 1: for us? Yeah, So there's this psychiatrist by the name

215
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,520
Speaker 1: of Daniel J. Siegel, and he coined the term the

216
00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,120
Speaker 1: window of tolerance. And I learned about this actually when

217
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,360
Speaker 1: I took a course, an online course called the Trauma

218
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,440
Speaker 1: of Money. There. It's put on by Shantal Chapman and

219
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,400
Speaker 1: Hero I'm gonna say here, last name wrong, so I'm

220
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,000
Speaker 1: not going to say it, but they're the ones who

221
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,480
Speaker 1: exposed me to this. So the window of tolerance is

222
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,640
Speaker 1: a tool created by this psychiatrist to kind of help

223
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,200
Speaker 1: you evaluate where you are at in terms of your state.

224
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:24,200
Speaker 1: And what that means is So the window of tolerance

225
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,199
Speaker 1: is a scale from one to ten, and you know,

226
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,680
Speaker 1: the extremes will say the window is actually four to

227
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,679
Speaker 1: seven and then one to three and then eight to ten.

228
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,400
Speaker 1: Those are extremes. You always want to be in that

229
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,000
Speaker 1: window because when you're in that window, you are able

230
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,000
Speaker 1: to deal with life's ups and downs in a normal,

231
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:49,200
Speaker 1: healthy way. Right, Like somebody acts like a dick to

232
00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,600
Speaker 1: you at the grocery store and then you don't like

233
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:53,320
Speaker 1: slap them, you know what I mean, You're able to

234
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:55,520
Speaker 1: just like take a deep breath and be like, you're

235
00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,040
Speaker 1: bumming me out, dude, whatever it is, I know it's

236
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,360
Speaker 1: not me, right, Like, that's being in your window of tolerance.

237
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,720
Speaker 1: When you're outside of your window of tolerance, you're either

238
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,360
Speaker 1: like super hyper or you're super like numbed out. So

239
00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,840
Speaker 1: let's put this in the context of money, right, So

240
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,120
Speaker 1: when you're outside of your window, you might feel really

241
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:15,600
Speaker 1: really anxious, and that could look like that could look

242
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,439
Speaker 1: like just feeling frantic, right, like emailing your account in

243
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,800
Speaker 1: four times in a row instead of just like taking

244
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,160
Speaker 1: a pause collecting everything you need to collect or downloading

245
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,960
Speaker 1: like three budgeting apps and just like toggling back and

246
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,840
Speaker 1: forth and frantically trying to be productive or like get

247
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,360
Speaker 1: something done. But you're so anxious, right, And the other

248
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,720
Speaker 1: end of that spectrum is kind of what we talked about,

249
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,880
Speaker 1: is like the behavior is more kind of checking out,

250
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,880
Speaker 1: numbing out, like ignoring, kind of like being an ostrich

251
00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,360
Speaker 1: putting your head in the sand. And I mean that's

252
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 1: like never looking at your bank accounts, never like not

253
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,880
Speaker 1: even knowing what your credit card balance is. Yeah, just

254
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,920
Speaker 1: being withdrawn. And so the way that I talk about

255
00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,719
Speaker 1: the window of tolerance is, well, it's really important to

256
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,240
Speaker 1: understand where you are when you're making big financial decisions,

257
00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,680
Speaker 1: because if you're outside of your window of tolerance, you're

258
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,199
Speaker 1: actually you're not just not equipped to make a decision.

259
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,920
Speaker 1: And I love this analogy that I always make. It's like,

260
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,959
Speaker 1: when you go to the grocery store hungry, I promise you,

261
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,400
Speaker 1: because you know we've all done this right, you're gonna

262
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,520
Speaker 1: just make bad decisions. You're gonna buy, like, you know,

263
00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,720
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars worth of things that can't even be

264
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:31,200
Speaker 1: made into a dinner that night. Right. And So in

265
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,520
Speaker 1: the same way that you should like eat a granola

266
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,480
Speaker 1: bar before you go to the grocery store, you should

267
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,280
Speaker 1: evaluate where am I in my window of tolerance right

268
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,840
Speaker 1: now before I call Bank of America to ask them

269
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,720
Speaker 1: to lower my interest rate, and if I'm outside of

270
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,440
Speaker 1: the window, what do I need to do to get

271
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,640
Speaker 1: into it right? And it depending on where you're at,

272
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,400
Speaker 1: you will do different things. If you're feeling hyper, maybe

273
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,040
Speaker 1: you need to like pet your dog a bunch and

274
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,960
Speaker 1: then take three deep breaths. If you're feeling with drawn,

275
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,920
Speaker 1: maybe you need to like jump up and down and

276
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,560
Speaker 1: blast Beyonce album while you're like fist pumping. So that's

277
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,200
Speaker 1: the wind of torrents. Okay, have you been spying on me? Why?

278
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:06,800
Speaker 1: Why would you do this? Why would you call me

279
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,720
Speaker 1: out like this? You feel it shacks just a little bit,

280
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:27,400
Speaker 1: But that's okay, that's okay. I like it. We loved

281
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 1: of seeing all of these real life applications when you

282
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,800
Speaker 1: bring out these analogies and let us know, like this

283
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,520
Speaker 1: is what it is, and we, again, like I said,

284
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,040
Speaker 1: relate too well to them. It's kind of like, oh,

285
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,680
Speaker 1: having that moment of realization of like, oh, this is

286
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,360
Speaker 1: a thing. This I'm not alone obviously because you talk

287
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,560
Speaker 1: about it, so it can't be just me, thank goodness.

288
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,760
Speaker 1: But the reality is these are things that have a

289
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,320
Speaker 1: lot of effect on our lives and how we move

290
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,720
Speaker 1: forward in our lives, especially when knowing that money does

291
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,560
Speaker 1: rule quite a bit of it. You don't want it to,

292
00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,400
Speaker 1: but it does, and it does affect how you may

293
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,880
Speaker 1: feel that day or the big decisions that you need

294
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,320
Speaker 1: to make, whether it's buying a car, buying a house,

295
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,560
Speaker 1: not buying a car, not buying a house. There's so

296
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:11,160
Speaker 1: many things to add to that, and understanding that level

297
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,280
Speaker 1: of that window of tolerance, as well as the trauma

298
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,600
Speaker 1: and then your reactions to it. It's so beneficial. But

299
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,320
Speaker 1: again it's not talked about enough. And I think this

300
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,760
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with just the awkwardness and

301
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,720
Speaker 1: the taboo of finances, which you talk a lot about

302
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,440
Speaker 1: and you're going to talk more about. I'm really excited

303
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,440
Speaker 1: about the podcast, and you've talked about in your book.

304
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,000
Speaker 1: And as someone who has struggled until recently, and I

305
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,600
Speaker 1: mean recently because we've talked about this a lot, we

306
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,520
Speaker 1: know in social work you don't get a lot of money.

307
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,400
Speaker 1: I thought I was doing this for the people, but

308
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 1: then really wearing myself down and realizing, oh, I need

309
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:47,520
Speaker 1: to overcompensate by having two other jobs, and it felt

310
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,720
Speaker 1: embarrassing to have to do all these things. And again

311
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,080
Speaker 1: I had a hard time not seeing it as taboo

312
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,640
Speaker 1: or not seeing it as a shameful thing or just

313
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,440
Speaker 1: too weird and too honestly like awkward to bring up.

314
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,080
Speaker 1: And in your books and in your conversations that you have,

315
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,640
Speaker 1: you give advice on how to go beyond that. So

316
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,480
Speaker 1: what advice do you give to those who are trying

317
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,040
Speaker 1: to confront those taboos? And why do you think this

318
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,720
Speaker 1: is important? Oh? Wow, that is a loaded question. We

319
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:21,479
Speaker 1: keep being all day talking about that. Let's go, I'm ready, okay.

320
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:26,120
Speaker 1: I think there's one overarching theme that we can all

321
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:28,720
Speaker 1: relate to when it comes to why we don't talk

322
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 1: about money, and we can see it just in we

323
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 1: can see it probably a lot in our families. There

324
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:36,760
Speaker 1: are people who I talk to who are like, Nope,

325
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,800
Speaker 1: me and my family, my parents always talk to me

326
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,119
Speaker 1: about money at the dinner table. We like talked about

327
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,480
Speaker 1: we just talked about money. The great majority of people

328
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,679
Speaker 1: that I've spoken with, they it's just not something they

329
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,800
Speaker 1: spoke about with their parents. Like I remember, maybe when

330
00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:51,920
Speaker 1: I was like in junior high, I one day asked

331
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,320
Speaker 1: my mom how much money she made. She told me

332
00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,480
Speaker 1: at the time, but I could feel energetically she was like,

333
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 1: why is my kid asking me how much money I make?

334
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,320
Speaker 1: It just wasn't It's not encouraged, I think within families,

335
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,200
Speaker 1: and then you see that like in society at large,

336
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,359
Speaker 1: Like if you walk to somebody, you walked up to

337
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,800
Speaker 1: somebody at a dinner party and you were like, so

338
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,680
Speaker 1: it's tax it's tax season right now. Right. So let's

339
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 1: say you go to a dinner party next weekend and

340
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,120
Speaker 1: you're like, hey, it's tax season. Did you file your taxes?

341
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,240
Speaker 1: Like how much did you make last year? People will

342
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,320
Speaker 1: be like, what is your deal? That's weird and I

343
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 1: don't want to answer that, right, And so there's another

344
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,240
Speaker 1: way that that's reinforced, and to me, the weirdest way

345
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,879
Speaker 1: that this gets reinforced. And we're breaking, we're slowly chipping

346
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,399
Speaker 1: away at this, Like legislation has been passed in New

347
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,280
Speaker 1: York and Los Angeles where I think this is going

348
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,600
Speaker 1: to change. But in the workplace, of all the places,

349
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,160
Speaker 1: we don't talk about money, which is crazy because we're

350
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,320
Speaker 1: we like, you know, pack our lunch and then we

351
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 1: go to the office and then we're just like hi

352
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,200
Speaker 1: coworker friends, Hello, da da dada. We're not there. I mean,

353
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,880
Speaker 1: of course we're there. Because our jobs can be meaningful,

354
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,280
Speaker 1: like you were mentioning, Samantha, but at the end of

355
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,280
Speaker 1: the day, if they didn't pay us, we wouldn't go there,

356
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,400
Speaker 1: we wouldn't do the work. And so like that's very

357
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,920
Speaker 1: clear and direct. But then we're not allowed to talk

358
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,880
Speaker 1: about it with one another. We're not allowed to be like, hey,

359
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 1: how much are you getting paid? Or hey, let's all

360
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,920
Speaker 1: band together and be like this guy takes ninety percent,

361
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 1: just take eighty percent and give us a little, you

362
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 1: know what I mean. There's just it's not encouraged. And

363
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:30,440
Speaker 1: so I think it's like this this tinge over how

364
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 1: we behave with money, is that in all these areas

365
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 1: it is a big, fat no no to talk about money. Right,

366
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,639
Speaker 1: So Nowvius at the stage, how do we deal with this?

367
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,680
Speaker 1: I think we start talking about money, and we could

368
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,120
Speaker 1: do this in a lot of ways, in ways that

369
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:51,280
Speaker 1: you in relationships where you feel safe, like close friendships, family,

370
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 1: you can start to just say, hey, listen, I've realized

371
00:19:55,040 --> 00:20:00,439
Speaker 1: that I've felt weird about talking about money, and I

372
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:05,639
Speaker 1: would like to start having more open conversations. I was

373
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 1: wondering if maybe you felt that way, and if you'd

374
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 1: like to participate and you know, we don't have to

375
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,760
Speaker 1: get like, you know, fully naked. But you could just

376
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 1: start to say things like what do you love spending

377
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 1: money on? Like what's your favorite thing to spend money on?

378
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 1: And you could you know, that's one way to start

379
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 1: the conversation. Or you could say, you know, if if

380
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,239
Speaker 1: you didn't have to care about your paycheck, you know,

381
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 1: what work would you do and why do you value that?

382
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 1: So positioning the conversation not just around like how much

383
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,399
Speaker 1: is in your bank account, but more like what do

384
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 1: you value in the world and how do you joyfully

385
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 1: interact with money? I think is like a nice putting

386
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 1: your toe into the talking about money waters. I like that.

387
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 1: And of course wait listening to weird finance, Yes, obviously

388
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 1: obviously wish we will get to. But first we want

389
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 1: to talk about something else you did. Because you've done

390
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 1: so many things, you also wrote a book congratulations, Yeah,

391
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 1: thank you no easy feed, called Finance for the People.

392
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 1: Can you talk about the book and why you decided

393
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,119
Speaker 1: to write it? Yeah? I wrote the book because I

394
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,160
Speaker 1: knew that if I didn't, I would regret it. I

395
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 1: think about my younger self like I think about fifteen

396
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: year old Paco and I think about eighty year old Poco,

397
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 1: and when I make decisions, I go to them and

398
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: I'm like, guys, game plan are we? Like? Do you

399
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 1: think this is a cool fifteen year old Paco? Is

400
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 1: your mind blown that current Poco is doing this great?

401
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it. Then I go to eighty

402
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,440
Speaker 1: year old Paco and I'm like, girl, do you need

403
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 1: to look back at this and know that you made it?

404
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: And she's like, of course. And then so that's That's

405
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,119
Speaker 1: kind of how I frame a lot of my decisions

406
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 1: career wise. But that's not the question. The question is

407
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 1: why did I write the book? I mean, I felt

408
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 1: the book is a community service in my opinion, and like,

409
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 1: let me tell you, a book is kind of a

410
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: lottery ticket in terms of money. You know, people are

411
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: not these days. There are people, of course who sell

412
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 1: a million books and they get really rich, but the

413
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 1: great majority of people who are writing books, it's kind

414
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: of like a really painful marketing thing, right, It's like

415
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: a way to get your foot in the door. And

416
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 1: so even though it required so much excavation and so

417
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 1: much energy, I really just needed to create a resource

418
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: for people that felt like there are no resources for me.

419
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 1: The only people talking about this are just weird. They're

420
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,879
Speaker 1: doing it in such a guilty, weird you know, talking

421
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: about hell and stuff kind of a way, and like

422
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: that's just not my jam, you know. So I just

423
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: wanted to bring the vibes when talking about money, and yeah,

424
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 1: I just really wanted to help people. And if I

425
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 1: would not have written it, if I thought, Okay, there's

426
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:54,959
Speaker 1: a good book out there that I could refer people too.

427
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,479
Speaker 1: So when I think about my own financial planning journey

428
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: when I went to school, I wish that this book

429
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: had existed. And also, like part like a big kernel

430
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 1: of truth is uh too many people were annoying me

431
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,679
Speaker 1: with their questions and I thought, okay, if I just

432
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,719
Speaker 1: put them all in a manual. And so now like

433
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: this is so messed up. But some like random people

434
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: who are like acquaintances, they'll they'll reach out and be like, hey,

435
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 1: can you tell me about how I get started investing?

436
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: And I'll be like chapter fifteen, bro, I love you.

437
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: Chapter fifteen. Oh no, because we're going to be asking

438
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: specific things that you wrote in the perfect This is

439
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 1: great because it's going to be perfect. It's good. It's

440
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: a perfect setup, right for people to dig in more.

441
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,960
Speaker 1: We just don't give a preview for our listeners so

442
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 1: that you have to go and buy the book and

443
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: understand this is really needed and it is. There's so

444
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: much good information and as well as exercises to break

445
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 1: down the taboos finance, debt, and wealth in this. I

446
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 1: really enjoyed that as full as illustrations. Amazing, you did that, right,

447
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: I did. Yeah, thank you, it's so good. Thank you.

448
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 1: But for so many of us who grew up with boomers, again,

449
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 1: money was something that was thought of as private and

450
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 1: impolite to talk about. And you correlate that with the

451
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 1: basis of trauma as we talked about earlier, which again

452
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: makes sense. How did you come to this correlation. Why

453
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: do you think it's important to address the trauma in

454
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 1: relation to finance and why do you think it needs

455
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,159
Speaker 1: to be broken down about? And I know the answer,

456
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: but I want you to say it in like in

457
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: the way that is an exercise for us to have

458
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: tangible solutions. Okay. Yeah. I kept seeing that people were

459
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: not acting in their best interest when it came to money,

460
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,120
Speaker 1: and that was curious to me. So I would go,

461
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: what's going on there, Okay, what's the common denominator. One

462
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: of the other things that I thought was really interesting

463
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: was you could think it didn't matter how much money

464
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: people made, right, even people who were making just barely

465
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,679
Speaker 1: enough to get by, and people who were making a

466
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: million dollars tons of money, they struggled with the same thing, Right,

467
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,959
Speaker 1: why are you not acting in your best interest? And

468
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 1: I struggled with it too. Again, the cognitive dissonance of

469
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: having a finance degree, having an economics minor, being in

470
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 1: a financial planning firm where I'm an associate financial planner,

471
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: and being like, what, I'm really struggling with my finances

472
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: in a very rudimentary, elementary way, Like I'm just not

473
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: earning enough, and I can't get myself to negotiate, I

474
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: can't get myself to speak up and stand up for myself,

475
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: and I'm like caught in this chaotic kind of whirlwind

476
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: of everything feels unsafe and everything feels uncertain. And it

477
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: took me a while, but you know, I'm from California.

478
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: This is a very California answer. I started meditating somewhere

479
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: between twenty ten and twenty thirteen. I can't really remember

480
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: when the practice was like full on, but I started

481
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: playing around with it because I had heard about a

482
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 1: lot of successful people doing it, and I was like, ah,

483
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,880
Speaker 1: it seems like it's free and you just sit there,

484
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: So let me just see what this is all about.

485
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: And the power of meditation is it allows you to

486
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: not be so attached to every thought you think. And

487
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 1: I think our society has a big problem with this,

488
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: where somebody believes something and then they think that is

489
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: who they are. It doesn't have to be. It could

490
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: just be like your current perspective on the picture of

491
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: life and all the players, and you can change. You

492
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: can change, You can look at things from new angles.

493
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: You can pretend to be another person in the story

494
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 1: and look at that perspective, and you can see how,

495
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: like in a big, big way, that would make society

496
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: a better place. But on a smaller level too, it

497
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: helps us just not feel so attached to the pain, right,

498
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: the things that have happened to me, the way that

499
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: I have been mistreated, and the injustices. Yes they're real,

500
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: but let's not identify too closely to them, because once

501
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: you do that, I think it's then hard again. You

502
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: have these blinders on it, and then it's really hard

503
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 1: to try to come at life and solutions from other angles,

504
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: and yeah, being able to do that was the first

505
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: step for me, because then I wasn't so activated. Every

506
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: time I looked back on these very traumatic experiences, these

507
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 1: very traumatic events, I could kind of look at them

508
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: with a sense of awe and wonder and be like, huh,

509
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: that's interesting that the way that I grew up where

510
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: I felt like everything was a little chaotic and I

511
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: never felt entirely safe because I went to thirteen years

512
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: of Catholic school and they told me that if you're gay,

513
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: you're real, real, you're messed up at your core, kid,

514
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: And I never felt like I could share who I was,

515
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: and I never thought I could be who I was.

516
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: That's really interesting that that is bleeding into I can't

517
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: ask for what I want because once I say I

518
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: need more money, man, you're gonna fire me, or my

519
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: livelihood's going to be taken away, or we're not going

520
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: to be cool anymore. This good relationship I have with

521
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: my boss, it's going to be killed. Right. So I

522
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: had to learn how to address how to even look

523
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: at those core wounds in a way that I wasn't

524
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: just going to have a breakdown and just spiral out.

525
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: And I really credit meditation to helping me do that.

526
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, no, you do write a lot about

527
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: that articles as well. And yeah, kind of going back

528
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: to because I added to so many questions, why do

529
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 1: you feel like tangible exercises like meditation and like these

530
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: exercises that you put in the book at the end,

531
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: Why do you think that's important for us to undo

532
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: some of that? So exercises are important because you know,

533
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: if you've spent any time exploring the world of self help,

534
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: pretty much everybody not pretty much everybody, but a lot

535
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: of people kind of point to this. And I've already

536
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 1: pointed to this, this concept, this idea that the state

537
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: you're in really matters, Right, And we can look at

538
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 1: this from different angles, Right, we can look at this

539
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 1: from like a biological perspective and say, like your nervous system,

540
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: how you have to learn how to regulate your nervous system,

541
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: because if you don't, you're in a constant state of stress.

542
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: When you're in a constant state of stress, you're making

543
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: decisions again that are not based in a cognition. You're

544
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: just reacting. You're having this stress response. You're always kind

545
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: of like you know about to burst, and that's just

546
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: that's no way to live with your money, and that's

547
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: no way to live in general. Right. It's like you

548
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: you're not showing up as your best partner in your partnerships.

549
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: You're not showing up. You're just not showing up as

550
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: your best version of yourself. And that's a disservice to you,

551
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: that's a disservice to everybody around you. So these tangible exercises,

552
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: they help you recognize that we have the power to

553
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 1: change our feelings, which is insane in the moment. We

554
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: have the power to change our feelings, and in the

555
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: long term we can teach our brain how to lean

556
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: towards other tendencies. Right, And so now we're looking at

557
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: this from like a neurological, neurobiological perspective, right. So the

558
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: exercises are ways to kind of click in and to

559
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: snap you out of the state that you're in. And

560
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: they're also tools. There are tools that have worked for

561
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: other people, and finding the tool for you is what's important.

562
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: And so I want to expose these tools to people.

563
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: For some people, sitting quietly will work for other people

564
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: they have to take a walk. Somebody else might really

565
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: want to just like stare at trees for fifteen minutes.

566
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: But the point is you have to find tools, like yeah,

567
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:31,959
Speaker 1: there's it's really fascinating that humanity, human beings, we use

568
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: tools all the time. I'm using a pen or using

569
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: a computer, but we have these kind of internal like

570
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: control sea tools that we can use. We just more.

571
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: I think more people need to normalize and talk about it.

572
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: And as a side note, I did I loved your

573
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: opened ended questions at the end and having people really

574
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: think through a lot of things, whether it was being

575
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: about grateful or how you thought about dead. It was

576
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: such a great way to wrap up that chapter. To

577
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: take what you have are you written and then apply

578
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: it to ourselves. So fantastic job about thank you? And

579
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: can I also put a button on that and say that,

580
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: you know a lot of people learn by just absorbing information,

581
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: Like I love to just put a book on like

582
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: two speed and just jam it into my brain. Not

583
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: everybody's like that, you know, Like my partner is not

584
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: like that. She needs to mechanically grab a thing and

585
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: then kind of work through something and then she understands

586
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: the process and the tools, the exercises. It's a way

587
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: for those people to dig in and to actually go

588
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: through the process themselves, so it really sticks. Yes, we're

589
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: all about that too. Yes, I love it perfect. Something

590
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: else that you talk about is social media and the

591
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: exportation of social media, and we talked about that a

592
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: lot too on this show, especially how social media often

593
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: targets young girls and women's with a and marketings and

594
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: all the dangers inherent in that and that can be

595
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: unrealistic expectations or just greedy corporations. What have you noticed

596
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: as industries. As these industries continue to grow, what advice

597
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: do you give to those who may be perhaps easily

598
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: influenced or just like media literacy, maybe if they've been

599
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: scammed before through social media. One of those who gets

600
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: is easily influence. I'm like, oh, that looks fun, let

601
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: me buy that. So that I think there's a bunch

602
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: of different ways that we can approach this question. There's

603
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: let's do one that's practical, and then we'll do one

604
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: that's a little bit more feely. So practical advice for

605
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: navigating the fact that you have a tiny mechanical electronic

606
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: billboard that knows with artificial intelligence that knows you probably

607
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: better than you know yourself, and what you want and

608
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: what you desire. It makes you feel bad because you're

609
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: comparing yourself to others, right, It's part of the whole

610
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: deal of social media. You're scrolling, you're seeing how other

611
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: people are living, and you feel bad. You feel bad,

612
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: You feel bad, and then oh, guess what, if you

613
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: buy this, you will feel good. That's what's going on there.

614
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: They make you feel bad and they make you feel good.

615
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: This is how selling works. Just think about an infomercial.

616
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: The infomercial in your mind's eye. Visualize an infomercial. It's

617
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: always like black and white and somebody's struggling with something stupid,

618
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: like coiling a hose, and it's like all dramatized, right,

619
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: and they're like, are you struggling with coiling a hose?

620
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: That's them agitating it. They're saying, you have a problem, pain, pain, pain, pain, pain,

621
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: And then it turns to color and they're like, we

622
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 1: have a solution for your pain. Social media is doing

623
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: the same thing, right. They're making you feel pain and

624
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 1: then they're saying, we'll take the pain away if you

625
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: buy this sweater. So practically one of the ways you

626
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: can combat this without being like completely withdrawn from society

627
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: is setting up a buy list, and it's exactly what

628
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: it sounds like. It is a list where you put

629
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: things that you want to buy on and the thing

630
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: that you like specifically. It's when a social media advertisement

631
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: is trying to get you to buy something. That's when

632
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: you would put that thing on a by list because

633
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 1: it's impulsive, right, and you put it on the buy list,

634
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 1: and you make your list cute like, you can organize

635
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: it however you want. You can add little thumbnails, you

636
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: can really be like, you can write about it, be

637
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: like I want this sweater because this is the kind

638
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: of person. It's going to make me feel like I'm

639
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: going to become, like enjoy your by list and then

640
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: put up a rule. And you know your rule is,

641
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: I'm not going to buy anything on the buy list

642
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: until it's been on the list for at least twenty

643
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: four hours or you might say forty eight hours, or

644
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: you might say one week. And the reason why this

645
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: bya list works is because the experience of shopping, not

646
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: just the buying, creates like a dopamine response, like it

647
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: feels good, right. Dopamine is this drug of desire, end

648
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: of like feel goodiness, right, and the experience of shopping

649
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: the am I going to buy it? Am I not

650
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: going to buy? What size? Do I want? Everything that

651
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: leads up to the actual transaction that you're getting dopamine.

652
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: So this is a way for you to still get

653
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: that feel good feeling without actually having to pay. The

654
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 1: other thing that's less practical when it comes to navigating

655
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 1: social media is and I already talked about this earlier,

656
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: is we really have to know ourselves, and we really

657
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: have to know who we are and what we want,

658
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: and we have to take actions in our lives that

659
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 1: allow us to build self confidence and to feel confident

660
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: in ourselves and to feel unapologetic. If you're a weirdo

661
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: or you really like math. I don't know why I

662
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: said that, like because people think that's nerdy. I guess whatever.

663
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: If you do something in your life that society wants

664
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 1: to put you down for, but you know you're not

665
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: hurting anyone and just switch you're into allow yourself to

666
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: do that thing and to build confidence. And for me,

667
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: at least, that's what I see a correlation between people

668
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 1: who who take action in their lives regularly and build

669
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: that confidence and their ability to be like, I don't

670
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: need to feel pushed to do what other people are

671
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: doing and to put myself in debt or to overspend

672
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 1: or to buy a thing that I don't need, because

673
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: I'm confident in my weird self. And that's it. That's

674
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: the vibe. That's a good vibe. I like that vibe.

675
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: Try that violence, though, I will. Okay, So we're about

676
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: to go down a little darker road again. This is

677
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: my thing. I apologize, But when it comes to finance,

678
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: we can't talk about it without talking about some of

679
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: the dark past and dark history of it, and even

680
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: just the dark indications of it today, such as things

681
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 1: like credit scores and high risk loans that often target

682
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: and penalize those who live from paycheck to paycheck. These

683
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: people are often already marginalized people due to their monetary

684
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: stance or any of those abilities to get the better

685
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 1: jobs or whatnot, not being able to go to college,

686
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 1: not being able to get the loan, all of those things.

687
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: And as someone who has worked behind the scenes in

688
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: the finance world, what have you witnessed when it comes

689
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: to the predatory practices behind financial companies like this? Oh?

690
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: You want stories, is what you want? I do, let's go. Okay.

691
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 1: So when I was graduating college, the last two years

692
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 1: I worked as a debt collector for a very big bank,

693
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: and actually I felt not terrible working that job because

694
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: people were coming to me or I was reaching out

695
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: to people and they were saying, I'm struggling, and I

696
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: would say more than half seventy five percent even maybe

697
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: even more. They were just you know, it was an

698
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 1: oversight or it was you know, some kind of unexpected expense.

699
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 1: It wasn't something crazy like one time a guy hit

700
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: a deer or two times in a month and that's

701
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: why he had to deal with that. And I was like,

702
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: I've from California. I never heard that. But it was

703
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: a job after that that was really crazy. I went

704
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: to a job farer in college and I spoke to

705
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 1: this guy who's the manager for a firm that no

706
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: longer is around, so I maybe I could talk about it.

707
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: Hopefully nobody sues me or anything. But the firm was

708
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: called Wells Fargo Financial, and it's like some subsidiary of

709
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: Wells Fargo. Wells Fargo is a regional bank that mostly

710
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: exists in the West, and if you just Google like

711
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: Wells Fargo, and like there's a lot of articles about

712
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: how crappy they were to their customers. So I'm like,

713
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: you know, twenty one, don't really know anything. This guy

714
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 1: sells me the job. And so this is summer of

715
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, right after the housing crisis, or

716
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: as we're kind of heating up and the asses falling

717
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: out of the housing market, and everyone's sort of waking

718
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: up and realizing rotro we let like all these people

719
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: get mortgages that they shouldn't have gotten. And the big

720
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: reason why is because we just believed what the sales

721
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 1: guy who was trying to sell them the thing, right,

722
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: the loan, We just believed what he's put down on

723
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 1: the application and right, so like if I was going

724
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: to go, you know, buy a house, the guy who

725
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 1: was trying to sell me that loan because he gets

726
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: a commission, would you know, would ask me like how

727
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: much money do you make and kind of massage it

728
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: so that I would write, we could agree on a

729
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 1: number that would get me a proof of the loan,

730
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: and then ultimately I couldn't afford the loan because it

731
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: was a lie. Right. It's an extreme example, but it

732
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 1: was happening, Like if you watch the Big Short, they

733
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: talk all about that. So I got this job, and

734
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: the first three weeks of the job, you just sit

735
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: on a computer and you do training. It's so boring.

736
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 1: You put on your headphones, and then the bank walks

737
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: you through all this training, anti money laundering training, how

738
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: to use the software, da da da da da. And

739
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: I remember kind of like pulling off my headphones and

740
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: listening to my coworkers talk. And in the first three

741
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: weeks it's all these people who are cold calling, and

742
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: they're speaking to people who barely speak English, who are elderly.

743
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: They're trying to encourage them to take a line of

744
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: credit where they would refinance a car that is paid off,

745
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: which is a depreciating asset, which means it loses its

746
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 1: value over time, and there's no makes no sense to

747
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: leverage to take out more debt with that collateral and

748
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 1: so and then you know, when they couldn't make the sell,

749
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: they would bring in the manager, the guy who sold

750
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: me this damn job, and he would try to push

751
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 1: push push, And so after sitting there for three weeks,

752
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: I had to quit that job because I was like, Wow,

753
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 1: you guys told me this was a different job, first

754
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 1: of all, not cold calling. Second of all, not selling

755
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: dogs to old people, so that I don't have a

756
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: lot of stories like that, because as soon as I

757
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:47,959
Speaker 1: feel like this is mad sketchy, I just bounced. M M. Yeah,

758
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: that's horrendous. It makes me think about what happens oftentimes

759
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: with the elderly who even today is getting called by

760
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: people will will buy your house for this amount of

761
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 1: cash and not realizing what's happening. And it's so ugly

762
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: to see that this practice is okay somehow, right, Yeah,

763
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: it's rough out there. Well, speaking of how do you

764
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: think that people who are being preyed upon can best

765
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: protect themselves from these things? I think it's really important

766
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: to realize and recognize that you shouldn't ask a barber

767
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: if you need a haircut. And what I mean by

768
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: that ultimately is we are driven by incentives. If I

769
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: could just back up a little bit and say, those

770
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: people working at Wells Fargo Financial and all the stuff

771
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 1: that happened in two thousand and eight and what led

772
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: up to it, those people were acting within a system,

773
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,439
Speaker 1: and that system was rewarding bad behavior. So it's less

774
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: about this one individual was a jerk. Yes, while that

775
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,919
Speaker 1: might be true, what was happening is you have these

776
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: people that are incentivized to behave badly. And so I

777
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: think once you plug that into your head and you

778
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: recognize that, that's how you should view some of these interactions, Like,

779
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: are these people being incentivized to sell me a loan

780
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: or a financial product because they get paid and that's

781
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,320
Speaker 1: the only way they get paid. If that's the case,

782
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: then maybe I should get a second opinion, or maybe

783
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: I should try to find somebody who's not selling me

784
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: based on that incentive. Right, So, first understanding incentives, I

785
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: think is a really good perspective kind of parcel to that.

786
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 1: The way that I always think about lending and financial products,

787
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 1: I think, how can I be screwed? Here? What is

788
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 1: the most I could be screwed? And I try to

789
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 1: ask questions around that. So, particularly with lending and loans.

790
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: In my book, I think I have at least ten questions,

791
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 1: maybe there's fifteen that I've listed out that can help

792
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: guide you with navigating whether a product is right for you.

793
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: And then particularly I just want to say this with

794
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: insurance because we see this a lot with insurance. Insurance

795
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: is a tool to protect against loss, and it is

796
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: not a tool for gaining. Very rarely are people in

797
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: a position where they're using where they should be using

798
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: insurance for gaining. I mean, I'm you know, I'm going

799
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: to say, you just shouldn't be. It's a it's a

800
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: tool to protect against loss and not for gaining. So

801
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: if anyone is ever trying to come at you and

802
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 1: you're not like super super super wealthy and you need

803
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: to find ways to jam money into places because you

804
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 1: have you know, it's so much going on and you

805
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: have tax issues, if they're like, you should buy this

806
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 1: insurance product, and here's how it's beneficial. Remember it's you

807
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: don't buy insurance to benefit. You buy insurance so that

808
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 1: you don't lose as much if something crazy happens. Yeah,

809
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: I know in your book you talk a lot about that,

810
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: and it was really really important to listen to its like, oh,

811
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: things that I need because I'm very confused by insurance

812
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: already saying, especially since it varies in different states, right, say,

813
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: it's confusing. Can I just say something that about insurance

814
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: that I think is really like I think why it's

815
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: confusing because like when I say this in the book

816
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: when you go to the store, Like if you sit

817
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 1: down at a restaurant and you buy a tuna sandwich,

818
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: you you're gonna eat the tuna sandwich. It's gonna appear

819
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: in front of you. If you buy insurance, you hope

820
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: you never ever have to be calling in a claim.

821
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 1: It's like one of those weird things where it's just

822
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 1: even the product itself is it's vague and it's not

823
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: like a thing. It's very bizarre, it is. I was

824
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: thinking about that with like house insurance, I like house

825
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 1: burns or whatever. It's so difficult to go through the

826
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: hoops and then you think you've knew what you were

827
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: getting and you really don't totally. I do want to

828
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more because, especially when we talk

829
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 1: about praetorian abuse of practices, We've talked up previously before

830
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 1: on the show about financial abuse and how it's often

831
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: used to keep those who are in domestic violence situations

832
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: an abusive situations from being able to leave those dangerous situations.

833
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: And one thing that seemed kind of obvious but doesn't

834
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: get talked a lot about enough about is how the system,

835
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 1: when I say the system of the patriarchy in itself

836
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: created a structure of power through I would say, tradition,

837
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: traditional gender roles as a way to keep women in

838
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: marginalized communities in these oppressive situations. And dig into your book,

839
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,919
Speaker 1: you do talk a little bit about the system as

840
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: it was set up and in your studies, what have

841
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 1: you seen that continues to hold that type of structure

842
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: up today? And how do we as a society do

843
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: you think try to break it down when it comes

844
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: to debt and finance. Man, if I really knew the

845
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: answer to this, I would be the president of the world.

846
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 1: So you just lead with that, Oh gosh, how do

847
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: we as individuals fight against a system that has been

848
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 1: created for us to not have power? I think there's

849
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways I think we can do

850
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: things individually. One of the reasons why I tell the

851
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: history of a lot of things when it comes to

852
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 1: finance is because I think it's important for people to

853
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: realize some of this stuff is not that old. Like

854
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 1: four one case came out in the nineteen seventies. Credit

855
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 1: cards were, you know, like in the fifties. Credit scores

856
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 1: not that old. And one of the things I think

857
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: that we're struggling with so much is the fact that

858
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:34,280
Speaker 1: like our grandmothers couldn't have bank accounts and credit cards,

859
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: and our mothers our mothers when they were really little,

860
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: like that's how it was, and you know what I mean.

861
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: So women are just starting to in the grand scheme

862
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,879
Speaker 1: of things, are just starting to get money. And so

863
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: I think time, I think over time, as you know,

864
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 1: future generations are born into a society where they don't

865
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: need to have their dad help them get a credit

866
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: card and their mom didn't either. I think that's really

867
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: what's going to change things. I think understanding the power

868
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: and the value of people within a community, I think

869
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: is also another way to kind of I don't want

870
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: to say dismantle, but at least throw a wrench into

871
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: the gears of the system right where you instead of

872
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 1: like allowing the financialization and the hyper individualization of everything

873
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,839
Speaker 1: overtake you where you're dedicating so much of your time

874
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: and everything to the almighty dollar invests, give your time

875
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,399
Speaker 1: and your energy into community as much as you can.

876
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: Because again, once I know that is stuff out there,

877
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: but I think that's also one weird, interesting way to

878
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,959
Speaker 1: kind of subvert power. And you know, higher women pay

879
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: women pay them what you pay a man. Hire people

880
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: of color right, pay them what you would pay a

881
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 1: white person. You know, higher trans people, pay them what

882
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,479
Speaker 1: you would base this person. You know, there's ways within

883
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 1: the system, I think where we can exercise our power.

884
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: I wish I had, you know, a magic wand and

885
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: a better answer for you. Well, you know you. You

886
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: make the statement, and I think it shows to a

887
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: lot of who you are as you say, I want

888
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 1: to have power because I don't want it willed it

889
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: over me becoming empowered in a society that doesn't want

890
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: me to be empowered. It's one of the most one

891
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: of the single most radical actions I can take. And

892
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that look into what that is,

893
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 1: the turning the power to empowerment and how you use

894
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,720
Speaker 1: that obviously in this book and the podcast for others

895
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: to come along with you. So I think, even if

896
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: you don't have the answers, you definitely have taken steps

897
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 1: to really break that down. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

898
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: It's it's it's really my pleasure. I feel like such

899
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: a call to help people and to just talk about it.

900
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 1: I have a gift. The gift is that I can

901
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: talk about money. I can make people feel really at

902
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 1: ease when it comes to conversations with money, and I

903
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 1: know that's what made me good in all these financial

904
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: services jobs, is what made me a good collector. I

905
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: didn't I made somebody feel comfortable and seen and I

906
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: was empathetic, and I'm just so happy. I'm so glad

907
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,040
Speaker 1: that technology exists and I can do this on a

908
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: larger platform. I can speak to more people, and that

909
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: I can help people feel better. It's what if I

910
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: didn't do that with that gift? What a way. So

911
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: I'm thank you for having me on the show and

912
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: thank you for helping me amplify my message. Yeah, well,

913
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 1: speaking of you do have a podcast coming out about finance,

914
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: specifically Weird Finance, as we've been talking about alluding to

915
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,399
Speaker 1: this whole time. Can you tell our listeners about it. Yeah,

916
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: Weird Finance is a podcast that is trying to help

917
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:53,240
Speaker 1: people feel less weird about money, one conversation at a time.

918
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: And I'm going to be speaking to experts in the field.

919
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 1: So I'll talk to financial planners, I'll talk to attorneys

920
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: that specialize in estate planning. I'll try to speak to

921
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: insurance people to help us understand insurance. But I'm not

922
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: just going to limit these conversations to professionals. I want

923
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:15,879
Speaker 1: to talk to people who are navigating this system, and

924
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: specifically I'm speaking to entrepreneurs and freelancers. Then the reason

925
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,919
Speaker 1: why I'm choosing that group of people is because they're

926
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: in this system where they have to do everything. They

927
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: have to understand how to price themselves right, how to

928
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 1: charge a certain rate, and how they arrived to that rate.

929
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: They have to have the conversation, make the sale, they

930
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: have to do the invoicing, and so I think that

931
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: they have a unique and you know, it's such a

932
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: different perspective about money and they're forced to confront it

933
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 1: on a regular basis. They think about risk differently, and

934
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: so I'm going to ask supernosy questions. You know whoever

935
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 1: will tell me, you know, how much they made or

936
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: you know, what are some of the things that they've

937
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 1: struggled with, what were their financial funds. I'm definitely going

938
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: to try to get some financial confessions on air. But

939
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 1: it's all in the name of of releasing this idea

940
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 1: that we can't talk about money, releasing this idea that

941
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: it's taboo, and I think the more you hear people

942
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: talking about it, the more comfortable we're all going to be,

943
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: and in a high tide, all boats rise, and I think,

944
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just trying to help people navigate the system,

945
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: feel better about their finances, and make a little bit

946
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: of progress every week. And we did get kind of

947
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: like a tease from your producer or super producer Ramsay,

948
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 1: who let us know that you don't have some a

949
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: typical guests, yes, as well as the typical, Like I

950
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: think we heard something about I don't know, financial kink,

951
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 1: maybe some therapy. Like I was like, what is all

952
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: of this? That's amazing, So it's not your typical definitely

953
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 1: not financial information. I spoke with a financial dominatrix and

954
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: a financial astrologer and we're really I mean, when I

955
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,399
Speaker 1: say weird, it's weird because we're weird about it. It's

956
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: weird because as money is weird. We all just have

957
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: this society wide delusion that this thing is valuable, you know,

958
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 1: and how you can double click on certain kind of

959
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: aspects of the world of finance and see that it's

960
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,879
Speaker 1: a lot weirder than what meets the eye. And I'm

961
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 1: just the more I get into my career, the more

962
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 1: I realize I don't know anything, and I'm curious, and

963
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to play the role for the listener of

964
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: asking dumb questions. So I hope everybody enjoys hearing me

965
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: ask them questions and explore the world of money. Yeah,

966
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 1: because obviously, as you can tell, I need all of

967
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,879
Speaker 1: the straightforward basic answers. I got you, But I also

968
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 1: like of love being entertained. So this is amazing, you know.

969
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: And for those who are venturing on trying to make

970
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: smart financial decisions, what basic advice would you give them?

971
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 1: So we already talked about the state that you're in.

972
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: That's really important. So starting to recognize how you feel

973
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: when you're interacting with your money, when you're looking at

974
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 1: your statements, when you are interacting with authority figures like

975
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: your accountant, how are you like? How do you feel

976
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 1: in your body? One other really practical thing that I

977
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: think everybody can do is this idea of splitting the check.

978
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 1: We've all gone out to dinner with friends, We've all

979
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: split the check, right, We split it up between whoever

980
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 1: we're having dinner with. I want to encourage people to

981
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 1: do that with their paycheck. And what I mean by

982
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,799
Speaker 1: that is thinking about splitting your paycheck into three broad categories.

983
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,399
Speaker 1: Your essentials, which I call your bills in life, your

984
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 1: non essentials, which I call your fun and bs, and

985
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,719
Speaker 1: your things for your future self, which I call your

986
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: future and goals. When you think about your spending in

987
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: this really broad context, I think it allows you to

988
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: kind of feel a little bit lighter and freer and

989
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: you're not so like zoned in on like every single

990
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: line item. And when I say split the check, I

991
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 1: mean literally split the check. You split up your essential

992
00:53:55,400 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: finances and your non essential finances into two separate checking accounts.

993
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: Wall you know, Okay, I'm taking care of my essentials.

994
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 1: I'm putting money from my future everything in this other

995
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: fun in bas checking account. If I wanted to buy

996
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: a hundred pieces with it, I could buy a hundred

997
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 1: pizzas with it, like it's free to spend. And I

998
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: think that again kind of shifts the relationship from oh no,

999
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 1: can I spend this money? To how would I like

1000
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 1: to spend this money? So you go from scarcity to

1001
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 1: more abundance, And that is great advice. And honestly, we

1002
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 1: had more questions for you, but we're going a bit long,

1003
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 1: so we'll stop it here, but we can always check

1004
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: out the podcast or have you back? Could be the name? Yeah,

1005
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 1: totally Donny did. Yes, thank you so much for joining us.

1006
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: Aware can the good listeners find you? You can follow

1007
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: me on Instagram at the hell yag Group. I also

1008
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 1: put out a weekly email newsletter called the nerd Letter,

1009
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 1: and you can sign up if you go to the

1010
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 1: hell yagroup dot com. Awesome. And also, you have a podcast,

1011
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: this comes out. Your podcast will be out out, um,

1012
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: so you can find that Weird Finance's coming out February nineteenth.

1013
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 1: I think that's it. Yeah, wherever you get your podcasts, yes,

1014
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: go check that out. Listeners. Thank you again so much

1015
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: for joining us, Paco. We hope that we can count

1016
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:16,919
Speaker 1: you as a friend. Thank you. Yeah. Like I said,

1017
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 1: we've got so many more questions. We need you to

1018
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: come onto our show. Tell us what to do with

1019
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: our money that we don't have. Yeah, I'm superdown. Yeah,

1020
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 1: let's do this again. I mean it feels like again

1021
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 1: we could do this for hours, So I'm happy to

1022
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: come back and chat with the chat with you folks.

1023
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,440
Speaker 1: Maybe we can get some like a listener generated questions

1024
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 1: and kind of go from there. Yeah. Good idea. All right, well,

1025
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 1: schedule out of date in the meantime, listeners. If you'd

1026
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: like to contact us, you can our emails Stephanie your

1027
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: mom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us

1028
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 1: on Twitter at most of podcast, or on Instagram and

1029
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 1: TikTok at stuff I Never Told You. Thanks. It's always

1030
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: to our super producer Christina. Thank you, Christina, and thanks

1031
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 1: to you for listening. Stepanor Told re ssproduction of I

1032
00:55:57,840 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For a podcast from my Heart Radio, you

1033
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,399
Speaker 1: can check out there radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

1034
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. H