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Speaker 1: I got Blueberry Mango I found.

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Speaker 2: I found it the other day. I was like, all right, group, Yeah, blu.

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Speaker 3: Group remember those Intel commercials icons?

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Speaker 4: Group Group is coming?

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Speaker 3: Is that on your list? Blue Man Group?

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Speaker 4: It's not, but it's just an added blue group ship.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Blue Man groups definitely Blue Man Group.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's nothing funnier than a Blue Man Group revealed.

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Speaker 2: There's like a literary fiction writer who I really like.

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Speaker 2: I was on her Wikipedia page and it was like

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Speaker 2: she was formal she's divorced from a blue Man and

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Speaker 2: you're like, oh wow, You're like that's who that book

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Speaker 2: was about.

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Speaker 5: That's crazy because they're all like these like art dudes

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Speaker 5: from New York. Is how it started, and then it

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Speaker 5: just turned into like a Vegas It was like such

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Speaker 5: a New York thing.

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Speaker 2: I felt like, Yeah, they're like like ex Brooklyn guys

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Speaker 2: who like needed work. And I was like, wow, she

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Speaker 2: got her heart stomped on by a blue Man that

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Speaker 2: I hear.

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Speaker 3: You ought to know is actually about bloom Blue Man. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's right. A lot of the founding Blue Man.

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Speaker 4: Hello the Internet, and welcome to this spinoff episode of Guys,

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Speaker 4: which we're calling the Iconograph. Instead of looking at the

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Speaker 4: zeitgeist through current events. We're looking at it through the

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Speaker 4: lens of the powerful pop cultural hore cruxes that are

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Speaker 4: our icons. We use these characters to create meaning, to

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Speaker 4: build identity, to learn conversational French, to know the appropriate

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Speaker 4: sound to make when beating the shit out of our

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Speaker 4: long term boyfriend, which is there?

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Speaker 3: It is hell, that's right.

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Speaker 4: In this episode we're talking Piggy's Miss Piggy, if you're nasty,

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Speaker 4: and that's why I did leave it for you, Miles,

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Speaker 4: with apologies to Kermit the Frog and David Bowie's codpiece,

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Speaker 4: maybe the most famous and beloved of Jim Henson's creations,

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Speaker 4: Miss Piggy, to be joined, as always by my co host,

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Speaker 4: mister Oh.

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Speaker 3: I love this. I love it. I love it. Starting

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Speaker 3: off and I'm like, it's this, that's not you know, we're.

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Speaker 5: Habitual, habitual doing the show one way. That's great, great.

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Speaker 5: I love the topic, dude. I love a good love

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Speaker 5: a good hy Yah. It's like an earworm. It's like

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Speaker 5: an earworm of a thing when you really get it

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Speaker 5: like that, it's smart, that's right, it's hitting it tingles

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Speaker 5: the brain a little bit.

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Speaker 4: Little tease. It is the first thing. It's the thing

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Speaker 4: that crystallized the character for Francos when he did, like

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Speaker 4: he improvised that, and it was like, oh, this is

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Speaker 4: when I understood the character for the first time.

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Speaker 5: Drugs with this guy. Wow, oh fuck, yeah, this is

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Speaker 5: a character.

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Speaker 3: I found it well.

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Speaker 4: That who you heard in the background in our third seat?

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Speaker 4: One of the very faces on Mount Zeitemore an Emmy

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Speaker 4: nominated writer, artist, comedian behind many of the most acclaimed

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Speaker 4: podcasts like Cast, Ghost Church, The Bechdel Cast, Sixteenth Minute

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Speaker 4: of Fame. She's the New York Times best selling author

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Speaker 4: of Raw Dolgh.

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Speaker 5: It's Jamie Loft, Jamie.

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Speaker 3: Hell yeah, hell yeah. Feels good, right good, I feel good.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever hit someone with the high yah.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just like a cute thing to do to your partner,

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Speaker 4: as long as you don't like fucking smash.

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Speaker 5: Actually she's like a powerful attack she had, Like she

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Speaker 5: was like, yeah, his arms, have you seen his arms?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, he goes There have to be ones

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Speaker 2: where he just goes flying, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there is there, yeah, where he just goes flying

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Speaker 4: like it's a fucking explosion and a mission impossible, Like.

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Speaker 3: And I get a YouTube.

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Speaker 5: If there's like a basic Piggy compilations just her fucking

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Speaker 5: ship up.

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Speaker 3: I don't like it.

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Speaker 4: I found one earlier. Guys, thank you so much for joining.

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Speaker 4: Jamie so so excited to have you here for this.

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Speaker 4: I did hear your Bechdel Cast episode about the Muppet Movie,

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Speaker 4: so I was like, gotta have Jamie on for Miss

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Speaker 4: Piggy because you're you're a Piggy Stan.

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Speaker 1: I'm a Piggy Stan.

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Speaker 2: I wish, I wish I was more like her, but

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Speaker 2: I feel like everyone has their inner Miss Piggy. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: I really need to start, uh, you know, really hitting

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Speaker 2: people more.

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Speaker 3: I think that's that's what we're learning.

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Speaker 2: The main takeaway, yeah and.

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Speaker 4: Whatever vo She doesn't really understand French, but she sprinkles

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Speaker 4: it throughout and that's cute. Do you guys have like

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Speaker 4: a singular like, oh, that's when I when Miss Piggy

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Speaker 4: was crystallized for me in your memory. Like I was

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Speaker 4: looking back and I was like, oh, I think the

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Speaker 4: first time I encountered her was on those like reading

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Speaker 4: posters in elementary school classrooms like she was, and then

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Speaker 4: that was the first time I encountered grown up Miss Piggy.

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Speaker 4: Because I knew Miss Piggy from Muppet Babies.

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Speaker 3: Right right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think for me it probably starts like anyone I

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Speaker 5: was like, it was always Kermit and Miss Piggy in

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Speaker 5: my mind.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I a couple.

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Speaker 5: I can't think of, like even if I knew Kermit

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Speaker 5: before Miss Piggy. I feel like to me, they entered

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Speaker 5: my brain at the same time, even though I think,

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Speaker 5: what Kermit she didn't? It was always Kermit first. But look,

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Speaker 5: I was a kid, it was the eighties. I didn't

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Speaker 5: know shit, we're going to get into it.

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Speaker 2: I think my entry point to Miss Piggy. I think

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Speaker 2: the first Mubbet thing I remember seeing is Muppet Treasure Island.

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Speaker 2: I have a vivid memory of getting into a big

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Speaker 2: fight with my cousin because we were fighting over because

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Speaker 2: the kid who plays Jim Hawkins, we both had a

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Speaker 2: crush on him and we were fighting over who gets

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Speaker 2: to marry him, and it was.

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Speaker 3: The marriage right and we start.

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Speaker 2: We would do that over every like boy protagonist in

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Speaker 2: a movie. We also did it over There's a movie

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Speaker 2: called Casper A New Beginning, and there was an identical

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Speaker 2: looking boy that we would just we would hie out

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Speaker 2: each other for this, like you know, mysterious child's hand

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Speaker 2: in marriage.

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Speaker 1: So I remember miss pegging that Muppet Christmas Carol.

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Speaker 2: I feel like I saw the movies before I saw

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Speaker 2: the ever saw the TV show right.

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Speaker 4: Real quick, some kind of icon bona fee D's because

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Speaker 4: last week we talked about how popular Arcle was that

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Speaker 4: you know, every season from season two through seven of

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Speaker 4: his show like destroyed. What the most watched TV in

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Speaker 4: modern times is? I think it was like pulling in

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Speaker 4: twenty to twenty seven million viewers a week. The most

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Speaker 4: viewed show currently is Monday Night Football at like sixteen

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Speaker 4: million people. I just want to read this description of

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Speaker 4: the Muppet Show when it was on. It aired in

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Speaker 4: over one hundred countries and had a weekly worldwide audience

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Speaker 4: by nineteen seventy eight of two hundred and thirty five

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Speaker 4: million people. No fucking way stop, because it was everywhere.

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Speaker 4: It was like so global.

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Speaker 2: I feel like maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like

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Speaker 2: it Up until fairly recently, I feel it was sort

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Speaker 2: of difficult to find old episodes of the Muppet Show.

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Speaker 2: I didn't see them until I was in college, and

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Speaker 2: the guests they were pulling was like, yeah, so I

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Speaker 2: don't know, I feel like whatever, we don't have monoculture

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Speaker 2: at all anymore, but particularly like monoculture that was pulling

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Speaker 2: so many different kinds of people as the hosts, like

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Speaker 2: I've I had the Rudolph narre Of episode had a

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Speaker 2: very strong impression of me, like they would have like

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Speaker 2: Ballerinas hosting, Yeah, shock culture.

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Speaker 1: To two hundred and thirty five million people, that's nuts.

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Speaker 4: It is a weird mix of high and low. And

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Speaker 4: then just for for my example, the thing that proves

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Speaker 4: to me the lasting power, like how iconic them up?

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Speaker 4: That's are. Something we were talking about was there's that

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Speaker 4: LCD sound System video for Dance Yourself Clean that like

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Speaker 4: every white guy is like, have you seen this?

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Speaker 3: Have you seen this YouTube video? It's like for Dance

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Speaker 3: Yourself Clean, but it's got.

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Speaker 4: Muppets in it, and the video like objectively sucks.

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Speaker 3: It's not a good video. Was a few days ago.

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Speaker 5: You brought it up and we started watching it and

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Speaker 5: I was like, I had never seen it.

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Speaker 3: I was like this.

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Speaker 4: Brian was just and brought it up and was like

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Speaker 4: every white guy just like I've been shown this by

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Speaker 4: three different white guys, and I was like me too,

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Speaker 4: and then we watched it and we were like this sucks.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, the City Puitier, like the guests they would

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Speaker 2: have on the show were absolutely like yeah, and everyone

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Speaker 2: is having the time of their lives, because how could

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Speaker 2: you not, like, it's just so cool.

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Speaker 1: Harry Belafonte another really good episode.

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Speaker 7: Just really, I just said, made that up, rich. I

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Speaker 7: just thought the image of acting trash cans funny, believable.

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Speaker 7: He'll do that, right, he was.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's like Sidney getting a fucking trash can.

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Speaker 4: Now we shouln't believe anything you say in the chat

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Speaker 4: Right ship. Wait, okay, I feel like I remember that. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: New Mandelac the City More when they had Nelson mandela on.

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Speaker 3: After he died. Was right, Yeah, it's just the Benstein bears.

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Speaker 1: Well, the Harry Belafonte episode is genuinely great.

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Speaker 4: Yes, all right, So Miles, to your point of like,

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Speaker 4: Kermit was first, and then Miss Piggy she was invented

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Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy four, Kermit came around in nineteen fifty five,

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Speaker 4: Ralph the Dog nineteen sixty two, and then Miss Piggy

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Speaker 4: is like the next kind of iconic character. But Ralph

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Speaker 4: the dog was like invented for a dog chow commercial.

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Speaker 4: It seems like a lot of these things were like

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Speaker 4: invented on an as needed basis. They were like, I

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Speaker 4: don't know, we need a we need a girl one,

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Speaker 4: let's do it. Let's do a pig. And then they

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Speaker 4: like kind of iterate on it. But it's Kermit as

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Speaker 4: old as fuck. First of all, like the borderline problematic

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Speaker 4: that they had a relationship. But uh, then seventy five

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Speaker 4: animal Sam the Eagles, Statler and Wald or the Swedish chef.

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Speaker 4: Seventy six we got Fozzy, which we can talk about Fozzy,

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Speaker 4: but yeah, they just seem to do it on an

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Speaker 4: as needed basis. And then you know, now that puppet

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Speaker 4: exists and now we can like do stuff with that puppet.

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Speaker 4: But I want to talk before because.

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Speaker 2: You know the interesting phrasing, interesting phrase. Now we can

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Speaker 2: do that, we can do stuff.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we can do that. We can think about it.

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Speaker 4: We can create backstories as we'll get into you can

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Speaker 4: get it. Yeah, now we can.

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Speaker 2: Do Now we can do stuff with that puppet. We

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Speaker 2: think about it. I feel like Ralph the Dog has

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Speaker 2: fallen off in the public, like.

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Speaker 4: Falling off.

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Speaker 2: I don't dislike Ralph as I dislike other muppets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll get to that, but I think he's fallen

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Speaker 1: off a bit.

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Speaker 4: Not a not a huge Fozzy fan from what I've.

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Speaker 1: Heard, not a huge Fozzy fan.

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Speaker 2: Fozzy's triggering for me.

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Speaker 4: Uh, Miss Piggy for some reason, this tax stand up

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Speaker 4: comedian is triggering to somebody.

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Speaker 2: I could see Fazzy. Whenever I look, I can see Fozzy.

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Speaker 2: If I look in the mirror, I can't see. I

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Speaker 2: can't be around Fozzy. I see five fozzis a night.

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Speaker 4: It's all Fozzies. Miss Piggy wasn't actually a Jim Henson creation.

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Speaker 4: She was actually designed by Bonnie Erickson, who this is

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Speaker 4: somebody that I didn't know about coming into this. Uh.

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Speaker 4: She also like she's invented a bunch of the mascots

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Speaker 4: that are like still roaming NBA stadiums to this day.

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Speaker 3: Maybe her like it right up.

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Speaker 4: There with Miss Piggy, depending on who you're talking to,

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Speaker 4: the Philly Fanatic mascot. She designed.

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Speaker 3: The Philly Fanatic. That makes perfect sense because that rocks.

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Speaker 5: The Philly Fanatic does feel like something off a Henson show.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it has Henson vibes. I mean, she was I

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Speaker 4: think like the director of the workshop. But on designing

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Speaker 4: the Philly Fanatic, she said, the managers approached us to

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Speaker 4: design a mascot who could encourage fans to bring their

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Speaker 4: families to the games. So we had to design a

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Speaker 4: character who was child friendly, was playful and a little irreverent,

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Speaker 4: but not too silly. We'd heard from the Phillies that

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Speaker 4: their crowd had booed the Easter Bunny. Was the challenge

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Speaker 4: to come up with something that was not going to

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Speaker 4: talk down to their audience, Like that is what you

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Speaker 4: think about it. In fact, she created a silly billy

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Speaker 4: child muppet mass Scott that Philly has just completely embraced.

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Speaker 4: Is such an accomplishment that we just like take for granted.

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Speaker 2: And then when did the Philly Fanatic launch? Was it

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Speaker 2: like around the same time.

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Speaker 3: Around the same time.

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Speaker 4: She kind of she was just like fucking on fire

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Speaker 4: for like four years. She created I mean, she created

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Speaker 4: Statler and Waldorf, she created a bunch of like really

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Speaker 4: iconic characters, and she created Miss pig So Miss Piggy's

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Speaker 4: name was originally Miss Piggy Lee as a reference to

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Speaker 4: Peggy Lee, who was a jazz singer who I wasn't

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Speaker 4: that familiar with. I went and listened to like her

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Speaker 4: top songs on Apple Music, and they're either Christmas songs

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Speaker 4: or like wildly depressed.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like rocking around the Christmas Tree? Is Peggy?

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Speaker 3: Is that Peggy Lee?

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Speaker 2: And I was like, am I confusing? Who's you?

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Speaker 3: Is that Peggy something Fever is her? So that's her?

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Speaker 4: That's her. But then she has this one called is

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Speaker 4: That All There Is? Oh?

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Speaker 3: I love that song.

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Speaker 4: Oh it's dark. It's like it tells the story of

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Speaker 4: like being at a Christmas party or at a birthday

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Speaker 4: party when you're young and like is that all there is?

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Speaker 4: And going to a circus and being like is that

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Speaker 4: all there is? And then she's like and I know

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Speaker 4: what you think, I'm going to kill myself. But I

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Speaker 4: know if I killed myself as I was like going

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Speaker 4: to the Pearly Gates, I'd just be like, is that

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Speaker 4: all there is?

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Speaker 3: It's a really.

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Speaker 4: Dark shit, which there's there's a lot of like dark

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Speaker 4: stuff in Piggy like written into her backstory that I

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Speaker 4: was not familiar with didn't read to me.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if peggyly ever like got like met her,

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Speaker 2: because I get it I get why they didn't keep them.

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Speaker 3: That's why they had to.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, she's threatened to sue over the puppet, so Miss

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Speaker 4: Piggy Lye became simply Miss Piggy.

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Speaker 2: Like, now, you'd be honored to have Miss Piggy associated

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Speaker 2: Kelly untested if they're like, so there's this pig on TV.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I get hair like you.

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Speaker 2: Are already depressing, right, boyfriend.

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Speaker 4: She started out she's incredibly abusive.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 4: She started out like as sort of a background character.

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Speaker 4: She was in like a sketch about Planet of the

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Speaker 4: Apes where it was like Planet of the Pigs, and

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Speaker 4: she was just like one of the characters. She had

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Speaker 4: like little button eyes. She didn't have her big like

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Speaker 4: beautiful colored iris.

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Speaker 3: Eyes like.

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Speaker 4: A doll's eyes. And she didn't sound like herself yet

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Speaker 4: it was she was at that time played by Jerry

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Speaker 4: Nelson doing just like a real standard guy doing a

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Speaker 4: girl voice. It was just girl. It's just like that. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I know it wasn't quite that good. Sorry I'm a

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Speaker 4: professional voice man, but yeah, but it does. I mean,

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Speaker 4: like I was saying the so eloquently before about how

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Speaker 4: they create the puppet and that puppet exists and now

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Speaker 4: they can do stuff with that puppet.

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Speaker 3: I do.

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Speaker 4: It's it kind of reminds me of like SNL talent, Jamie.

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Speaker 4: One of my favorite of your obsessions is like when

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Speaker 4: an SNL person like shows up on the thing and

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Speaker 4: then two years later they look completely different.

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Speaker 2: They got the Veneers, they got.

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Speaker 4: The Veneers, they got the glow up.

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Speaker 2: They literally I like to like, Lord Michael slams your

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Speaker 2: head against the table and thought, he was like, I

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Speaker 2: guess you need.

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Speaker 3: You need new teeth now.

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Speaker 4: But I feel like if you can make their eyes bigger,

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Speaker 4: he probably would, right.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, give him the watch call what's that

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Speaker 2: movie the Clockwork Orange?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but also this is second week in a row

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Speaker 4: where we're covering a character who became arguably the most

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Speaker 4: iconic thing from their world and who starts out in

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Speaker 4: the background, and then we watch as they just like

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Speaker 4: grow and grow as the public responds more and more

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Speaker 4: to them. But yeah, I just I do think in

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Speaker 4: terms of like why we have Miss Piggy, it's like

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Speaker 4: having the multiple projects iterating, and then when they needed

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Speaker 4: a female character, they went to a woman who just

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Speaker 4: like happened to be a genius and was like inventing

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Speaker 4: huge chunks of popular culture in like just a few

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Speaker 4: short years.

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Speaker 2: That's so I still can't get past two hundred and

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Speaker 2: thirty five million people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, thirty five million people.

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Speaker 1: That is just like, wow, Okay, that's everybody. That's isn't

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Speaker 1: every person? That's everybody.

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Speaker 3: That's everyone in the war people, everyone in the world.

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Speaker 2: So people watching puppets on TV, Like, that's that's nuts.

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Speaker 5: I mean because it is also I mean, like when

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Speaker 5: you think about it, Rkele had twenty something million for

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Speaker 5: a few years in America versus two hundred and thirty

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Speaker 5: five globally, and you're like, oh, that's why. Like I

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Speaker 5: feel like children now, Like you show a kid and

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Speaker 5: wherever most places like do you know this character? And

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Speaker 5: they'd be like miss Piggy and I'm like do you

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Speaker 5: know who this is? And They're like, that's a man

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Speaker 5: with suspenders on? Right, So I'm like, that's curcle, but

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Speaker 5: that's fun. You're just not cultured.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm also sure I'm guessing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know much about like muppets internationally,

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Speaker 2: but it must be like there's so it's like such

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Speaker 2: a double bowle show that it's got to be super

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Speaker 2: easy to adapt to it basically anywhere.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, puppets, upets are great.

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Speaker 4: Puppets are Puppets are great. Is also one of my

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Speaker 4: conclusions that I come to, like I was saying. Her

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Speaker 4: breakout moment came when oz improvised her trademark karate chop

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Speaker 4: during a scene with Kermit. Originally the script called for

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Speaker 4: a slap, but he decided to go with a karate chop,

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Speaker 4: which then allowed him to his quote is the script

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Speaker 4: called for Piggy to slap Kermit. Instead of a slap,

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Speaker 4: I gave him a funny karate hit. Somehow, that hit

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Speaker 4: crystallized her character for me, the coyness, hiding the aggression,

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Speaker 4: the conflict of that love with her desire for a career,

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Speaker 4: her hunger for glamour image, her tremendous out and out ego.

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Speaker 4: Which it's just interesting that that was so foundational for

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Speaker 4: him because it's also the first thing, like my brain

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Speaker 4: spits out when I like think of miss Piggy. If

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Speaker 4: I like have to think of her doing something, it's

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Speaker 4: the karate chop.

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Speaker 2: It's so good. I love hearing like actors talk about

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Speaker 2: like they're silly ass character because it has to be so,

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Speaker 2: I mean, and it is important that like it has

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Speaker 2: to sound so important. My favorite example of that is,

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Speaker 2: do you guys remember when Bill Nihi played mewtwo in

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Speaker 2: Detective Pikachu.

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Speaker 3: No, I mean, I know, well he.

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Speaker 2: Did, and I love sometimes I'll go if I can

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Speaker 2: watch his interviews about that movie for fun, because he's

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Speaker 2: just like when I folds about Mew two and you're

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Speaker 2: just like, You're like, yeah, man, you sound like an idiot,

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Speaker 2: but that is your Like I just loved it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like frank Oz is like, how how does the

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Speaker 1: pig think? Where's she coming from?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're gonna be like and then this is it

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Speaker 3: her frustration.

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Speaker 5: She's trying to balance it all, her career, her love

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Speaker 5: life in this high Yah.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, did you really think that at the time?

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Speaker 3: Did you know it's just sort.

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Speaker 4: Of a performer that's okay, Yeah, Because I think a

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Speaker 4: lot of the cases, these moments of inspiration for these

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Speaker 4: that kind of characters come when they're like like in

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Speaker 4: this case, it was just like I needed to do

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Speaker 4: a thing, and I did this instead of the thing

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Speaker 4: that the script called for. And then like it like

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Speaker 4: kind of all comes together with Rkle like we were

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Speaker 4: talking about he like at the audition, he was like,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, like I went out of body, like

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Speaker 4: I blacked out and like came to and I was

398
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Speaker 4: like everyone was laughing, right, Like that's also like Elvis,

399
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Speaker 4: the character of Elvis, which like wasn't how he actually

400
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,399
Speaker 4: was as a bit because he was like tanking this

401
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 4: like he was like trying to sing a song and

402
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Speaker 4: it was like all serious and sad, and everyone's like,

403
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 4: this guy fucking stinks. And then he like started goofing

404
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Speaker 4: around and doing the Elvist voice and people were like.

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Speaker 3: Do that, Like I think I.

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Speaker 4: Want this guy, but I feel like it's like the

407
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Speaker 4: creator needs to get out of their own way or

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Speaker 4: something to like then have it all like come together.

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00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 4: But yeah, so Frank Oz ends up being the person

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Speaker 4: who plays Piggy. I always thought it was because Piggy

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Speaker 4: and Fozzy fucking hated each other, but Oz actually plays

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Speaker 4: both of them, and so that's why they're never around

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Speaker 4: at the same time. Jamie, do you think there's any

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Speaker 4: way this is the reason you hate.

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Speaker 2: Fozzy Because if Fozzy's on Screenzzy.

416
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Speaker 4: Like literally getting in the way of Kermit and Piggy.

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Speaker 1: More, Missy, I just think Fozzy like needs to hang.

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Speaker 4: It up, Like I just it's hard for me. You

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Speaker 4: think it's because he fucking sucks? Is that why? Well?

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Speaker 2: I think he's really he really stinks up the place

421
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Speaker 2: for a number of reasons. But like if all, like

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Speaker 2: a lot of the early Muppets movies are about them

423
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Speaker 2: trying to make it big, and it's like Fozzy is

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Speaker 2: an active hindrance. I'm not rooting for his success. I like,

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Speaker 2: he's not gonna make it. He's not going to make it,

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Speaker 2: and he's getting in everyone else's way, and I need

427
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Speaker 2: him to move back home. Where did they where? Because

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Speaker 2: I forget in the Muppet movie where you know.

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Speaker 4: He gets start from Yeah, I forget. Yeah, it's like

430
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Speaker 4: somewhere isn't he along the way? Don't they like he

431
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 4: find him somewhere along the way, Like.

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Speaker 2: Can I just be Yeah?

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Speaker 5: And it's like go back Elselezo Cafe, I think is

434
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Speaker 5: what it was called.

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Speaker 2: And realistically, Fozzy's got to go to grad school and

436
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Speaker 2: like he just has to pack it up.

437
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 1: He bums me out.

438
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 5: I just love you would be a character in him

439
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 5: up at film who plays like the bad Hollywood manager

440
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 5: who's like, look, Kermit, you got to get rid of Fozzy.

441
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 5: He's getting in the way. He's an active hindrance to

442
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 5: your career. Kid, Hey, he's a star. You've got a

443
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 5: natural charisma.

444
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 3: My friend of God. Get rid of this fuck the manager.

445
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 4: Isn't that like where managers come from, is they like

446
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,120
Speaker 4: fail and then they're like, well, I didn't hang out

447
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 4: with these people.

448
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 2: Let's get Fozzy an internship at w m E. Let's

449
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 2: just figure something in the mail room.

450
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, work your way up.

451
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 4: He could be Turtle Fazzy. I bet if you asked

452
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 4: Fozzy which entourage character he was, he'd be like.

453
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm kind of evinced type.

454
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,159
Speaker 4: Fucking not dude, are you?

455
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, Fozzy and and and I don't know, I think

456
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,479
Speaker 2: especially if I don't care. If you like Fozzy, if

457
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 2: Fozzy is your favorite, let's talk, because what does it mean.

458
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 4: Fozzy can't be anyone's favorite.

459
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 3: Point No, no.

460
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 5: I remember, because Fozzy to me was like bummy. I

461
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 5: didn't like his energy. I didn't like his fucking tie

462
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 5: or like scarf thing there was just didn't appeal to me.

463
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 3: Like I was Kermit Gang from the beginning.

464
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, Kermit has there there's something about him.

465
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:13,719
Speaker 1: There's just something about that.

466
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 4: We do ask on every episode, like if they actually

467
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,439
Speaker 4: existed in reality in our world, would this icon have

468
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 4: been on the Epstein flight logs? And as we've already covered,

469
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 4: Miss Peggy not on the flight logs. But take another

470
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 4: look for Fozzy Yes, Sam, like there's it's only a

471
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 4: matter of time, like a failed comedian, like.

472
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 3: He would be on fucking kill Tony.

473
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,959
Speaker 4: Who refuses to be in the same room as Miss Piggy,

474
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 4: as the woman in the group.

475
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 2: Fozzy would do a private event at mar A Lago.

476
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 2: He will, Yeah, he would have no issue about it.

477
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 2: And then he would say business is business.

478
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 3: He's exactly.

479
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 5: He's like, welcome to the Foston, Texas comedy scene, is

480
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 5: what you'd be telling people.

481
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, he's lawless. He's like like all bad.

482
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,959
Speaker 2: Comedians, he's gonna have to he's gonna, you know, the

483
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: only way for him to be successful is by going

484
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 2: full fascist.

485
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, well and even then they're like this

486
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 3: guy fucking stinks.

487
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's big game season. We're taking down.

488
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 4: Fozzy Fozzy Bear put his head on my wall. So

489
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 4: to your point about how seriously sometimes performers take their

490
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 4: roles frank Oza says that like Piggy is his. He

491
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 4: thinks Piggy was so successful because she's like got the

492
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 4: most depth and the most going on. And he wrote

493
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 4: a four page Stanislavskian analysis of Miss Piggy's life that

494
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 4: is like so dark.

495
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 2: Oh wait, does she have like a Charles entered him

496
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 2: and Cheese styles story?

497
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,959
Speaker 4: Yeah, she has kind of a fucked up backstory, all right,

498
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 4: frank Oz. Although Miss Piggy is essentially humorous to me,

499
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 4: she's had a sad, difficult, painful life. This is not

500
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,720
Speaker 4: for the audience to know, but the puppeteers should know

501
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 4: the background of any good character in order to be

502
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,239
Speaker 4: able to improvise. I thought we would get like an

503
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:24,120
Speaker 4: extensive martial arts background, but it's actually like depressing dust bullshit.

504
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 4: According to Oz, Piggy grew up in a small town.

505
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 4: Her father died when she was young. Her mother wasn't

506
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 4: that nice to her. She had to enter beauty contests

507
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 4: to survive. She has a lot of aggressiveness, but she

508
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 4: needs a lot to survive, as many single women do.

509
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 4: She has a lot of vulnerability which she has to

510
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 4: hide because of her need to be a superstar. He

511
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 4: also said the miss Piggy's father chased after other sows

512
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,240
Speaker 4: and her mother had so many piglets she never found

513
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 4: time to develop her mind. I'll die before I live

514
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 4: like that, Piggy screamed. She then left for the city

515
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 4: and got a job wearing a sandwich board for and

516
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 4: this is where it gets like really fucked up for

517
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 4: a barbecue stand, and entered a beauty contest under the

518
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 4: name Laverne. Her big break was a bacon commercial, which

519
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 4: led her to a job as mascot for a local

520
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 4: TV sports cast called pig Skin Parade. And then she

521
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 4: got on The Muppet Show. Just like so much cannibalism

522
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 4: packed into the last like two paragraphs.

523
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

524
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 3: This isn't for the public to know. This is the

525
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 3: performer on the flesh of her own mom.

526
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 5: Was so busy breeding that she didn't have time to

527
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 5: develop her mind, her mind. Oh, oh my god, I

528
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 5: thought I was gonna end like fucking grapes of wrath.

529
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 3: It's like and she had a breastfeed a dying man.

530
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 4: That really took a turn.

531
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 2: That told me a lot about frank oz I.

532
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: Where he was at that time, where.

533
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 2: He was at that is It's so brutal. I do

534
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 2: like that. I I rewatched a little bit of it

535
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 2: this morning, like a really good video essay about miss

536
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 2: Piggy by be kind Rewind on YouTube.

537
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I love her channel.

538
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: I like rewatched the first couple of minutes and I

539
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 2: was like, I gotta save it for the pod. I

540
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 2: was just hyped on the pig today. But like, yeah,

541
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 2: like how that story is, like that's way darker than

542
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 2: I was aware of. But it does feel like mapped

543
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: on like an old school like I'm just a little

544
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 2: girl from a little town and I had a hard

545
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 2: time and here at you know, it was like a

546
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 2: Marilyn Monroe kind of like sure I took some pictures

547
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,959
Speaker 2: when I was a young Sure pig I wasn't proud of.

548
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 4: So what Yeah, And I mean maybe that's what the

549
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 4: like cannibalism is, you know, or the like having to

550
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 4: sell yourself out. Like I think there's probably like some

551
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 4: metaphors in there that are just like incredibly dark.

552
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 2: I love the I don't I don't have an issue

553
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 2: with that. Her mom catching astray like that, that was

554
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: really hard.

555
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 3: My mom's a dumb bitch.

556
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 5: That was really fucking to figure anything out anyway. So

557
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 5: Fazzi's actually what if his back is like, So Fozzy's

558
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 5: like actually a sick comedian dude, Like everybody loves him.

559
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 5: He's so fucking funny. When he enters a space, he

560
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 5: lights up.

561
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 4: The wishes she could get with Fozzy, But unfortunately on

562
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 4: both of them, the.

563
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: Comedic voice of a generation isn't always recognized right away.

564
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: Sometimes it takes some time.

565
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 5: My hope is that posthumously Fuzzy will be recognized for

566
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 5: his uh, his contributions.

567
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: But he's really the Venco.

568
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: I don't really Ozz.

569
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 5: His parents are like puppeteers, like kind of like renegade

570
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 5: puppeteers too.

571
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh, puppet nepo.

572
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 3: That's fun.

573
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: That's fun.

574
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 5: They like escaped like like Holland or something in World

575
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 5: War two, and like his parents had puppets that mocked

576
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 5: eight off. Hitler was just reading like some of his

577
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 5: They were like about that ship puppeteers.

578
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, shit, Okay, the puppet is mightier than the sword,

579
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 4: as they said, you know, the best way to criticize

580
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 4: to make a fool of people in power. One cool

581
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 4: detail that I think I actually got from the be

582
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 4: kind Rewind episode was that the reason she always wears

583
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 4: pink and purple and like aqua and like those colors

584
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 4: is because based on this backstory as psychological aversion to

585
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 4: the earth tones that she lived with on the farm. Wow,

586
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 4: that's like the sort of thing I was looking for,

587
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 4: you know. It's just like and here's like a fun

588
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 4: design detail that like we explain with and it's like

589
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 4: she was in a commercial for bad right wearing a

590
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 4: sandwich board.

591
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

592
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 2: Frankaus is like the coolest, one of the coolest people

593
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: to ever do anything. I was like the fact that

594
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: he co created Miss Piggy and then like directed Little

595
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: Shop of Horrors and like bow Finger.

596
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 3: Like it's just nuts. Wives that movie.

597
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe not that one, that one, there's a couple

598
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 2: wee can skip a few.

599
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: But but like Little Shop a Horror.

600
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 3: Come on, that's great, that's good stuff.

601
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: It's amazing.

602
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and Yoda.

603
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: I guess the fact that Yoda's number three on the

604
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 2: list is impressible.

605
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah.

606
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 4: Behind this Piggy and Fozzy, I think that, like I

607
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 4: want to get to this later, but the fact that

608
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 4: they are one of the few fictional characters that can

609
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 4: like show up to Prince Charles's coronation and it like

610
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 4: makes sense, which kind of makes sense, but like I

611
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,239
Speaker 4: feel like the Henson Company like treated them as if

612
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 4: they were real, which is maybe why they're like the

613
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 4: only fictional characters will accept as real.

614
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 3: Almost.

615
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 2: I was thinking this this morning, so like there's a

616
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: new Miss Piggy movie coming out and at some point,

617
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: which is like super excited about that I didn't know

618
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: about before today.

619
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 4: I was so excited. I was talking my colaskl Yes

620
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 4: and produced by Ammastone on the Stone and Jays.

621
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: It just it just makes sense.

622
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 2: But I was like, Okay, so we're assuming if we're

623
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 2: gonna say that movie's gonna be nominated for a.

624
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 4: Lot of Oscars, right, Yeah.

625
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: Does Miss Piggy get nominated for an Oscar? Miss Piggy

626
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 2: is still voiced by a man? Miss Piggy gets nominated

627
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 2: for the Oscar? Right, It doesn't work if Miss Piggy's

628
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 2: not nominated for the Oscar. But I mean the gender

629
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 2: lines and award categories are ridiculous anyways.

630
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 4: But like this unique case, You're.

631
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 3: Like, what do we do? It is funny.

632
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 5: It's like a Supreme Court case that changes everything. It's

633
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 5: like and in this scenario, how do we move forward?

634
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 4: We've actually there is precedent, speaking of the Supreme Court,

635
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 4: there is president for this because while so, yeah, she

636
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 4: really becomes the superstar with them up a movie in

637
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy nine, you know, does the karate chop moment

638
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 4: of like realization. Frank Oz goes back and like writes

639
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 4: horrifying backstory, and suddenly she's this fully formed character. And

640
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 4: the Muppet Movie comes along and everyone is like, who

641
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 4: is that? Like they I mean, they knew her from

642
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 4: the show, but like she really Like I was watching

643
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 4: the Ciskel and Ebert review of The Muppet Movie and

644
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 4: Ciskel was like, I only liked the movie when she

645
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 4: was on screen, Like he was like so smitten with

646
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 4: Miss Piggy. He also like he's also like the part

647
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 4: where they like flip her upside down and you see

648
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 4: how bigger thighs are. It's like, oh my gosh, okay man,

649
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 4: oh cool. There was a fan led campaign to get

650
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 4: Miss Piggy an Academy Award nomination for Best Actress. Two

651
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 4: fans in Cincinnati launched CAMPO, which stood for the Committee

652
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 4: to Award Miss Piggy and Oscar. They received thirty five

653
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 4: thousand letters of support and delivered them to the Academy

654
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 4: of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. In response, the Academy

655
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 4: made this statement, which I just have to include for

656
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 4: like just a massive l. While the Academy does not

657
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 4: participate in the pork barrel campaigns, which are an unfortunate

658
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 4: part of the annual OSCAR campaign, we do wish you

659
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 4: appropriate success with your commendable support of such a weighty

660
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 4: candidate of Academy honors. Oh, guys, get fucked honestly fast.

661
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 2: That's sasty.

662
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: She I mean, miss Piggy has to have been gone

663
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: to the Oscars before.

664
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 4: She has, so she at those Oscars presented or I

665
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 4: think introduced Rainbow Connection, which was nominated that year, and

666
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 4: like did a bit about how she couldn't fucking believe

667
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 4: that she wasn't nominated, which was like, really good it

668
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 4: was her.

669
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: Johnny Carson and insult her in the same I.

670
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 4: Know that's saety backhanded then she So nineteen seventy nine,

671
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 4: Big Year was on the cover of People magazine, which

672
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 4: referred to her as the Muppet Movies New section. Scottis

673
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 4: the late seventies were like so weird. I don't know,

674
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 4: so she's she talks about how the Queen tried to

675
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 4: fix her up with Prince Charles better than Prince Andrew.

676
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 4: Thank god, I don't think.

677
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 2: That would be a real stand on that would that

678
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: would not bode well for the flight log side.

679
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would have been she wouldn't have been on there.

680
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 4: Man.

681
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 3: She would have chopped the ship out of him.

682
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 4: That's true.

683
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, he wouldn't have made it. Maybe she could have.

684
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 2: She would have killed him. Yeah.

685
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 4: The article also suggests Elliott Gould suggests that he fucked

686
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 4: Miss Piggy in it. He says, I turned down Miss Universe,

687
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 4: but I couldn't turn down Miss Piggy.

688
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 2: That actually that pairing. I feel like Elliott Gould does

689
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:40,879
Speaker 2: have like a little bit of current about him.

690
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 3: Like she's got a type, Yeah.

691
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 4: For sure, a type. You got that frog in him,

692
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 4: He's got he got that frogs early eighties. She has

693
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 4: such a weird Yeah, good guy who fucks. But everybody,

694
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 4: I feel like everybody in the late seventies had like

695
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 4: guy with a ponytail from a documentary about like Orgi's Energy,

696
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 4: where they're just like we're just here to enjoy each

697
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 4: other's bodies and like yeah, it's just like I don't that.

698
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 2: Guy's always there and he's like, oh god, it's yeah,

699
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 2: it reminds me of that there.

700
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: It's like a kind of an older video now.

701
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 2: But Chris Fleming made a great song about Polly Couples

702
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: years and years ago, where it's like, it's never the

703
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 2: person you want to be Pollie, who's Polly, it's a

704
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 2: guy being like I have one hundred board games at

705
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 2: my house, like.

706
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,919
Speaker 4: No, no, But in this case we're talking about Elliott Gould,

707
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 4: which I would I'm on board with miss Piggy and

708
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 4: Elliott Gould.

709
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 3: I love that rumor.

710
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: Yeah that would make Kermit jealous too.

711
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 4: Oh hell yeah.

712
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

713
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 4: We'll get to their relationship. But it's I don't know,

714
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 4: going back and rewatching some of the stuff. I was like,

715
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 4: I don't love how he treats her, like obviously, like

716
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 4: there's a big like re examination of her, like hitting him,

717
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 4: but also he's like kind of a dick sometimes to her, like.

718
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,399
Speaker 5: Trying to put a wedge between him so you can

719
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 5: move in on this, like I don't know, girl, like

720
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 5: I feel like she could do better.

721
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: Well, you're like like me for example, So I'm just saying.

722
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, I don't know. I got like

723
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 3: one hundred board games back in White Place.

724
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 4: I haven't taken my hat off yet, but I'll let

725
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 4: the ponytail drop out.

726
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 3: A little bit.

727
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: That would be a ponytail.

728
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 3: Reveal, shaking it out. Yeah, this is who I am.

729
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 5: Like when the nerdy character takes the pencil out of

730
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 5: their hair and like an eighties like, oh god, like

731
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 5: whoa long hair.

732
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,840
Speaker 1: But it's kind of like kind of perpetually wet ponytail, just.

733
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 3: Like a greasy as ponytail.

734
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 5: It doesn't really like flare out, it's just stuff together

735
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 5: a little bit like a pig's tail.

736
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 3: People, Magsie.

737
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 4: I also just like this detail from the article because

738
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 4: it was the late seventies and they said the gossipis

739
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 4: plan that Piggy might be pregnant or had a drinking problem,

740
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 4: or perhaps a coke addiction, because certainly she has the

741
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 4: equipment to be snorting something I do just like the

742
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 4: coke was a fun drug back then, Like they're just

743
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 4: like we're all doing it. Wouldn't it be cool to

744
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 4: snort choke with giant pig nostrils?

745
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:21,320
Speaker 7: Oh my?

746
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 5: I think if your people pulling out that puppet like

747
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 5: at parties and being like, yo, dude, let's fucking do

748
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 5: a line with Miss Piggy.

749
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 3: They're like, guys, I really shouldn't.

750
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 5: It's really for performances to like, come on, dude, pull

751
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 5: her out of the case.

752
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 3: Let's do a couple of rails with Miss Piggy.

753
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: She I feel like she she would do it as

754
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 2: in the seventies she did it as a party trick parties.

755
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 5: Frank Oz was definitely doing It'd be like, oh, I.

756
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,280
Speaker 1: Like and I don't And is that a fun energy

757
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: to bring? I think it sounds fun. But when it

758
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 1: actually happened, you're like, yeah, man, this is not good.

759
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 2: We got to get home.

760
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 5: And it's after as the high is wearing off, You're like, damn,

761
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 5: what the fuck am I doing?

762
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 3: Man, you can't do.

763
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 2: A pigs do Folks, I'm looking at the Muppet wiki is.

764
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: Unbelievably thorough.

765
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 4: I just like, yeah, it's got its own it's like

766
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 4: Woki Wikipedia, like it's its whole universe over there.

767
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: Because I was curious, I'm sure we'll talk about it,

768
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: like how like Miss like the Academy Award, think like

769
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 2: the way that people talk about Miss Piggy's body is

770
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: so like charged and uh, but like she never talks

771
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 2: about herself that way, which I love about her. She's

772
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 2: like so confident and amazing.

773
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: But there's a whole page on muppet Wiki this is

774
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 1: Miss Piggy's weight, and it's just a list of hundreds

775
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: of references. I was like this, who did this?

776
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 4: H did this?

777
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: And and can I I don't know for certain Wikipedia pages.

778
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 1: You're like this is against God.

779
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,959
Speaker 4: But but I.

780
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 3: Do appreciate that the all yeah, yeah, yeah.

781
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 4: She was introduced to a whole new generation with Muppet Babies.

782
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 4: Did you guys watch Muppet Babies?

783
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 3: Was that before your time?

784
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 4: Yeah?

785
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 2: I did babies, missus the miss Piggy. Muppet Baby is

786
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 2: like a little too sexy for me. Yeah, what's going

787
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 2: on there? Did you guys like Muppet Babies? I didn't.

788
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: I didn't watch it. Grow it now.

789
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 5: I was like, I mean, I was so. It was

790
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 5: one of the first cartoons I remember watching Watch Baby.

791
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 4: I remember it.

792
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then there was.

793
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 5: The cartoon I remember there was like a kind of

794
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 5: there's like a reference to Star Wars and like the

795
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 5: opening that I really liked that.

796
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 4: I was like obsessed with other than that. Yeah, it

797
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 4: was the opening is the thing is the iconic thing.

798
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 4: And then Nanny's legs, like they had a overseer who

799
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 4: you only saw her like stockings.

800
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, like Charlie Brown.

801
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 4: Style, right, yeah, yeah, you just saw her like calves

802
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 4: and it was like very mysterious.

803
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: I love that they did that on Cow and Chicken too.

804
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 2: That was like when I really loved Yeah, when it's

805
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 2: just the legs.

806
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 4: That was a Marvel joint. By the way, Marvel Common

807
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 4: Animation Department technically made the Muppet Babies, so that's the

808
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 4: first because it was like the.

809
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: Cheap o animation style of of Yeah.

810
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 4: Probably they were probably like already making you know, a

811
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,439
Speaker 4: Spider Man comic and we're like, what about what about this?

812
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: We made the Muppet Sexy Babies.

813
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 4: There's a lot of weird continuity stuff in there, like

814
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 4: there's a reveal that Statler and Waldorf are the muppets uncles,

815
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 4: but like, I don't I don't think we need to

816
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 4: like get too into continuity because I don't, like I

817
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 4: think the premise is that like the Muppets are all actors,

818
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 4: Like this is just a SNL style like thing where

819
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 4: it's like they're just playing different versions of themselves and

820
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 4: you like never know what's real, so you don't have

821
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 4: to like worry too much that Statler and Waldorf for

822
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 4: actually just the worst uncles of all time? Right worried?

823
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 5: Did you worry that Scott Gardner cartoon Tiny Buppets?

824
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 3: Yes? Oh yeah, it's so good.

825
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 5: It was like the Brazilian Mummy Babies when it was

826
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:05,879
Speaker 5: called like Cormet and Gonzor.

827
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,320
Speaker 3: Was just called I think it's miss woman or something.

828
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 2: Shit it Miss Piggy is probably the best case scenario

829
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,879
Speaker 2: of like the missus Lady character right like there, it.

830
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 3: Really isn't right.

831
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 2: I can't think of them where because it's like they

832
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: try to emulate it a bajillion times or like I

833
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 2: don't know, I always go back to chuck e cheeselare

834
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,440
Speaker 2: as I want to do and they have a missus Lady,

835
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 2: like you always have to have one girl, not even

836
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 2: because you care, but so you can make pencil boxes

837
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 2: for girls, right right, But miss Piggy, like they just

838
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: there was something in that coke that was special.

839
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

840
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 4: Uh, Brian, I'm gonna have to ask you to stop

841
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 4: putting pictures of a fazzy var next to Burt Kreischer

842
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 4: in the.

843
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 3: Chat.

844
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 4: It's too distracting. They do both wear brown hats and

845
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 4: no shirt.

846
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,800
Speaker 2: Well, I don't sell Brian's hard work short. He's finding

847
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 2: exact poses that are identical. It's like, it's alarming.

848
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 3: That's crazy.

849
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 4: Bert Crasers just modeled his career off Fuzzy. That's wild.

850
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 3: No fucking have a backstory, man, gotta have a backstory.

851
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 4: So Miss Piggy is seen as an lgbt Q plus icon,

852
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 4: which is wild because it started from a place where

853
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 4: Frank and and We'll get to a quote from Marlon

854
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 4: Brando that I think will kind of put some of

855
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 4: this into context. But he once told reporters about how

856
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 4: Piggy takes over and when he talks about her, he

857
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 4: will become her, using her voice and even adopting her personality,

858
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 4: and then added, but let's get it straight that I'm straight.

859
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 4: It's like, okay, all right, man, cool, Okay.

860
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: He keeps telling on himself.

861
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 4: Really, I know other artists were like, I sculpted the

862
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 4: David out of appreciation for the human body. Just because

863
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 4: I sent three weeks on the dick doesn't mean I'm

864
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 4: not straight.

865
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, look at his biceps though. Look at those things. Man, sick, right, sick.

866
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 4: I'm sure a straight guy could do.

867
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,839
Speaker 3: Got to be straight, understand, dude, dick like that.

868
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 4: After he became a successful film director, he was still

869
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 4: associated with Miss Piggy. When he directed the two thousand

870
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 4: and one crime movie The Score, an annoyed Marlon Brando

871
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 4: would reportedly only refer to the director as miss Piggy.

872
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 4: Just like, Okay, that's brutal. I just like the seventies,

873
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 4: just any anyone who was like famous in the seventies

874
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 4: was just like broken by toxic masculinity.

875
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 3: They're just like never recovered.

876
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 2: That's yeah, that's a bummer. Yeah, man, I I don't

877
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe there's something I don't know very

878
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 2: much about Marlon Brando, and it's kind of like none

879
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 2: of my business when I see Marlin.

880
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 3: We're good here. It's not for me. That's not really

881
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 3: for me.

882
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 2: I don't need to know about all of that, especially

883
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 2: if he's bullying Frank Gaws to the Frank Oz has to.

884
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 8: Respond in a toxic way to the world, right exactly

885
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 8: two thousand and one, Brando, Dude, that's like, oh that's

886
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 8: a yeah, that's doctor Moreau, you're talking.

887
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 2: That's tough.

888
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 4: But Eric Johnson, who's been playing Piggy since Oz stepped

889
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 4: away from the part in two thousand, said in an

890
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 4: interview that Piggy is a drag act. It's where some

891
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 4: of the comedy comes from. He did not go on

892
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 4: to clarify I've slept with like twenty three women of

893
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 4: them have said, I'm like, good, it sucks. But he

894
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 4: cited Oz's early description of Piggy as a truck driver

895
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 4: in a woman's body, and then argued that the character

896
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 4: breaks down genderbearers, which I think is.

897
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 2: Right, all right, Eric, nice. Eric.

898
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 4: People have also pointed out that Chapel Roone seems to

899
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 4: pull a lot from drag and also Miss Piggy, Like

900
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 4: there are a couple side by side pictures where it's like, oh, yeah.

901
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 3: She might have literally Miss Piggy style.

902
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, it's perfect. Miss Piggy also has a wide

903
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 2: variety of wigs. Yeah, she's just she's maximal.

904
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 3: She loves animal print, you know.

905
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 4: But yeah, that that be kind rewind video it's called

906
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 4: Miss Piggy. Camp and the Death of the Movie Star

907
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 4: has a really good quote from a camp theorist talking

908
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 4: about Camp as this like pure surface level celebration of

909
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 4: like the kind of hoops we have to jump through

910
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 4: to live our lives. They say, to appreciate camp and

911
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 4: things or persons is to perceive the notion of life

912
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 4: as theater being versus role playing reality and appearance, which

913
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 4: I think is like kind of a perfect frame to

914
00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 4: think of Miss Piggy and kind of the Muppets through. Yeah, yeah,

915
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 4: it's a good video. Miss Piggy as a feminist icon.

916
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 4: That's just you know, a lot of people talking about

917
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 4: body positivity role model who subverts, Like the original punchline

918
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 4: of her origin is like a you know, lipstick on

919
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 4: a pig like that sort of thing. But she just

920
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 4: like I didn't even I hadn't ever even thought about

921
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 4: that being the original joke until somebody like reading about

922
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 4: the origin is like, oh yeah, I get it. But

923
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 4: it's like no, she's just like so glamorous that like

924
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 4: you don't even. She just like owns it. She's completely confident.

925
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 4: I feel like you don't like have that initial like

926
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 4: she's ugly but pretty type thing. It's just like she's

927
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 4: her own character, that extensive backstory.

928
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 2: I also like that, like I guess the Miss Piggy

929
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 2: era I most associate her with, and I like the

930
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 2: best is that her like kind of nineties Miss Piggy

931
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 2: where she's kind of like girl boss single a little

932
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 2: bit like she's a she's a career girl, and she's

933
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 2: also like a ruthless kind of quite evil career girl.

934
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 2: And I love that.

935
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 4: Which one is that? What is that in the ruthless?

936
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 2: I feel like, I mean most of them I'm thinking of.

937
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: I think it's maybe a Muppets take Manhattan where she's

938
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 2: really rallying for parts and she'll like lie to get parts.

939
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 2: She just like she's you know, she's a diva, she's

940
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 2: an Yeah, And I like that, Yeah, it would be

941
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 2: it would have been easy to keep the focus on

942
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 2: her like obsession with Kermit, which like it always does.

943
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 2: But I feel like her her passions of Kermit and uh,

944
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: you know, being famous are like in Lockstep, So it's

945
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: like almost weird that she had, Like they haven't like

946
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 2: adapted her to the modern era very frequently.

947
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: I guess maybe this Coloskull and Miss Piggy.

948
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, written by col Skull who made o Mary for

949
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 4: people who aren't familiar but so so funny. Yeah, like

950
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,760
Speaker 4: it could really like get into brilliant dark shut.

951
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,439
Speaker 5: Which what if it's a dust bowl? He's like, I look,

952
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,319
Speaker 5: I went to the source and I just had to

953
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 5: adapt this.

954
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 2: Frank Gus in fact doubled down when I brought up

955
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 2: the Stanoslavskian brief.

956
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 4: Jennifer Lawrence did say that the Miss Piggy movie is

957
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 4: fucked up and really dark, which wow, maybe it is

958
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 4: just a straight up adaptation, all right, But yeah, I

959
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 4: feel like this, like one of the things driving her

960
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 4: career throughout has been just the will they won't they

961
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 4: of Kermit the Frog. Like there was a more recent

962
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,359
Speaker 4: I forget what it was, but I remember it hitting

963
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 4: the news cycle when they like broke up and everybody

964
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 4: was like, oh, like Piggy and Kermit broke up. That

965
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 4: was the second time they had tried that, and the

966
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 4: first time they did it was actually like called off

967
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 4: because like they like, to your point, they were going

968
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 4: to break up. She was going to be single throughout

969
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 4: the nineties, and it was there was like this whole

970
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 4: book planned, and then Jim Henson died like that week,

971
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 4: and so they just like quietly like pulled back on it.

972
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 2: I said, She's been through enough to see her. We

973
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 2: can't put her through a breakup.

974
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,760
Speaker 5: Oh because then because he was Henson was doing Kermit's

975
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 5: voice up until he passed away.

976
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 4: Basically, yeah, he had been so his last TV appearance

977
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 4: was on The Arsenio Hall Show in nineteen ninety.

978
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 5: So funny that there was like seriously, yeah, we got

979
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 5: Kermit the Frog on tonight, godless.

980
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 4: And he was like not feeling well at that and

981
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 4: then he was refusing to like take time off and

982
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 4: then so I didn't realize. I thought he like died

983
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 4: of cancer or something. He died of like basically strep

984
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 4: throat and just like not getting it taken care of.

985
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 3: God.

986
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like a really crazy like a bacterial infection

987
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 4: that just like got worse and worse. And he was

988
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:23,319
Speaker 4: at that time talking to Disney about selling, you know,

989
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 4: the Muppets to Disney and Frank Oz this is frank

990
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 4: Oz's quote on it. The Disney deal is probably what

991
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 4: killed Jim. It made him sick.

992
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Oh.

993
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, good good for him for saying that. I guess

994
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 2: I mean because Disney is I went to my for

995
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,800
Speaker 2: my last birthday. My boyfriend brought me to the Henton

996
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 2: studio like dirty Puppet night. Have you guys ever been No, Yeah, Yeah,

997
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 2: it's cool. It's like Brian Henson gives the audience a

998
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,320
Speaker 2: tour of the studio beforehand, and then it's like puppet

999
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 2: improv basically, it's the it's the best way to see

1000
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 2: improv if you absolutely have to is puppet improv you must.

1001
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 4: But it was.

1002
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: It was really cool. But I don't even know if

1003
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 2: they're still at that studio or they won't be for

1004
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 2: much longer because Disney has like sort of slowly dismantled.

1005
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 2: I hope maybe the Miss Piggy movie will save it,

1006
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 2: but it seemed like they were going to have to

1007
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 2: leave the studio and you know, go to sort of

1008
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 2: more standard corporate offices, which I have to imagine is

1009
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:29,720
Speaker 2: Disney's fault.

1010
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, because it's like they were also like you

1011
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 5: could like lease office space out of there, like I

1012
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 5: remember in the last few years, like yeah, because the

1013
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 5: place on LaBrea right like that.

1014
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, but like everything Kermit yeah yeah yeah, there.

1015
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 4: Was like see a little Kermit statue out front.

1016
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 5: I remember going like back in the day, like meetings

1017
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 5: with startups like that were like like a startup was

1018
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 5: based back.

1019
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 3: There, like you Richard the Hinson Studios, and it was

1020
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 3: that company excess more than seven.

1021
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 2: No, they shouldn't have.

1022
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 3: To do fally bummed out that. I was like, what

1023
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,240
Speaker 3: but you got like I'm looking at the original.

1024
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 5: Dark Crystal Puppets in here, and you guys are fucking

1025
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 5: talking about some dumb streaming platform that's not gonna do fuck.

1026
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, the frog's broke.

1027
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 3: What k he do he do? Man? And make him

1028
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 3: do whatever you want guys. Yeah, and you want.

1029
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 5: Watch this, I can ash on his head right now.

1030
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 5: Won't do shit.

1031
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 3: But yeah.

1032
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 4: In nineteen ninety, they appeared on The Today Show announced

1033
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 4: they were officially breaking up. This is part of a

1034
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 4: publicity stunt called the Pig of the Nineties that where

1035
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 4: she was going to like be an independent woman and.

1036
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 2: Then she's gonna girl boss it up.

1037
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, she was gonna grow boss it up. And then

1038
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 4: that was in May, and just days later, Jim Henson

1039
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 4: died of Yeah. It's a crazy sort like he literally

1040
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 4: just worked himself to like he wouldn't He like woke

1041
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 4: up at two am in the morning and was like

1042
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 4: I can't breathe and was like coughing up blood and

1043
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 4: he was like but I don't want to cancel work tomorrow,

1044
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 4: so I don't know, for as a warning to anybody, like,

1045
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 4: don't don't work that hard.

1046
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah alone.

1047
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,720
Speaker 2: This is dark, but it would be funny if frank

1048
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:19,879
Speaker 2: Oz was like, yeah, I think it was the breakup that.

1049
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 3: I didn't believe in love. After that, he just really.

1050
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 5: Find this new new direction with Miss Piggy right that

1051
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 5: we're thinking about.

1052
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:28,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like, you could just really affected him.

1053
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 3: And he really wanted to say something, but he could.

1054
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 4: It was just like a plot, an idea that he

1055
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 4: didn't like at work, so he like blames it. He's like, yeah,

1056
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 4: I don't know, Yeah, yeah, I killed Jim.

1057
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 3: What do you guys think? Huh hit off? Maybe I'll

1058
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:46,879
Speaker 3: pitch that next time.

1059
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:51,400
Speaker 2: I will watch basically like any like of the bajilion

1060
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 2: documentaries that there are about Jim Henson, and anytime I

1061
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 2: see even a shred of his like televised funeral services,

1062
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,359
Speaker 2: I started bawling. It's so sad.

1063
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 3: I was so upset.

1064
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 5: That was like one of the first celebrity deaths I

1065
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:06,399
Speaker 5: remember as a kid.

1066
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:09,319
Speaker 4: Did you guys know that, like that's how he died?

1067
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 4: That it was I thought you just cancer. Yeah, cancer,

1068
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 4: because he wasn't that old, right, was he in his

1069
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 4: like fifty something?

1070
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:19,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thank god.

1071
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, but yeah, I just remember I was so deaf

1072
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:25,720
Speaker 5: because I just felt like he was the Muppets truly,

1073
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 5: even like as a kid, I knew they were fucking puppets,

1074
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:29,879
Speaker 5: but I still could connect that, like all things were

1075
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 5: possible through his work and the other people he worked with.

1076
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 2: But yeah, which is like not that they wouldn't have

1077
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 2: been anyways, but it like almost makes it necessary for

1078
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 2: kids to have the Muppets at the funeral, so you

1079
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 2: know that they're like still, oh my god, Oh it's

1080
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 2: so sad.

1081
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, man, they're laying flowers on this.

1082
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 2: It's too much, so much. I was like, no, I've

1083
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 2: never been as set. Well that's not fair, but like

1084
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 2: I've never been stunted at a funeral as I am

1085
00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 2: watching like low res clips right right right, funeral from

1086
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 2: nineteen nineties. So sad.

1087
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I do feel like that does like get

1088
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 4: a kind of one of the things that I think

1089
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 4: is truly unique about them, which is the way that

1090
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 4: they exist both in reality and in like the fact

1091
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 4: that they were at King Charles's coronation. I feel like

1092
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 4: they're the only fictional characters who can like show up

1093
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 4: to real events, Like they occupy a weird space between

1094
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 4: worlds for everybody, Like you couldn't just have like like

1095
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 4: Deadpool show up at the royal wedding.

1096
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:40,839
Speaker 3: And we've got Deadpool here.

1097
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 2: You know, what is that the coronation.

1098
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 3: I mean a fascinator on.

1099
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 2: I feel like that they because like other characters I guess,

1100
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 2: do show up places, but it always you can always

1101
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 2: tell it's an ad And then when the Muppet Show, you're.

1102
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 3: Like, oh, like, oh, the Muppets are there exactly? Yeah,

1103
00:56:58,360 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 3: like damn, oh they were in town.

1104
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1105
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 4: When uh so Edgar Edgar Bergen Candice Berger from Then

1106
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 4: in Black died. Now when Edgar Bergen, Cannis Bergen's father,

1107
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 4: who was a famous like puppeteer ventriloquist, died, his widow

1108
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 4: and candisberg And asked Jim Henson and Kermit to like

1109
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 4: speak at his funeral, and they said Jim Henson said, uh,

1110
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 4: there seems to be something strange about having a puppet

1111
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 4: in this situation, and Kermit said, I have never appeared

1112
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 4: at a funeral before, and then Henson was like, but

1113
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 4: the family asked if I would bring Kermit and Charlie

1114
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 4: would have liked it. He said about like his Charlie

1115
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 4: and Mortimer were his two characters, and like everybody just

1116
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 4: like burst into tears because they realized like Charlie and

1117
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 4: Mortimer were gone, like at that.

1118
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 3: Oh wow, But yeah, it's sad.

1119
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just kind of this weird like you know,

1120
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 4: puppets have been like a thing, and like they they

1121
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 4: hold the like the muppets hold this like load bearing

1122
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 4: place in popular culture because they're like our main muppets

1123
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 4: are our main puppets, you know, right, Like there's a

1124
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 4: quote from Bonnie Erickson where she's saying they've been a

1125
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 4: tradition across the world for thousands of years as a

1126
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 4: form of storytelling, but until recently, they haven't been appreciated

1127
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 4: in the United States. We owe allot of that to

1128
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 4: Jim Henson's vision, and so like there's something like sort

1129
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 4: of magical about puppets that like these being the main

1130
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 4: pop culture puppets like allows them to just like occupy

1131
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 4: this weird space where we're like Piggy and Kermit canna

1132
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 4: like get together together at any given time.

1133
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 5: Right right, and now, Jamie, I bet you'd feel terrible

1134
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 5: if you read that. I've read that Fozzy odd after

1135
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 5: a bad open mic gig or something.

1136
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 3: Wouldn't you just do it?

1137
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:56,960
Speaker 2: Look, you know my dark Fozzy movie is Fozzi's in

1138
00:58:57,200 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 2: aa uh and like, who's Fozzy's sponsor? I do feel

1139
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 2: like Fozzy can't drink anymore?

1140
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't drink. I feel like almost might sponsors. Yes,

1141
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:11,560
Speaker 3: Almost Dad is almost.

1142
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 4: Dad like kind of has like old you know, musician

1143
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 4: vibe a lot of ship.

1144
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 5: I was drinking hand doing heroin. They're like, oh fuck,

1145
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:22,959
Speaker 5: all right, man, all right, almost Dad.

1146
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, almost Dad has seen ship. You don't just raise

1147
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 2: a kid like that, like Elmo. Yeah.

1148
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. It also makes a lot of sense that you

1149
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 3: see the dad. You're like, oh okay, yeah, yeah, in.

1150
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: The grand context Elmo. Actually it comes into sharp focus.

1151
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1152
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 4: I do wonder, like what the drug seems like with

1153
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 4: the Muppets, you know, just generally.

1154
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean like the band, the band has to

1155
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah that is I love the band so much.

1156
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think they're doing intravenous drugs, but a

1157
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 4: lot of acid in the band i'd have to assume

1158
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 4: r Yeah, yeah.

1159
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: Keep it fun, they keep it fun.

1160
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, stuff that just kind of makes them

1161
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 5: more muppetty if.

1162
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 3: That's a.

1163
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, something makes you like taste colors?

1164
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 4: Nothing, Yeah, I will say just the last thing I

1165
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 4: have about Miss Piggies. I feel like to encapsulate the

1166
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 4: weird place that she occupies. I don't think any other

1167
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 4: children's character could have simulated an orgasm.

1168
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 3: Did you have you? Guys?

1169
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:32,200
Speaker 4: Do you remember that thing where she was like doing

1170
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,280
Speaker 4: a parody of when Harry met Sally with Billy Crystal?

1171
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 2: Oh no, wait, when did that happen?

1172
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 4: They it was the early nineties and she did it

1173
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 4: as like a fake sneeze, but she really like it was.

1174
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 4: It was a long time and it was on the

1175
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 4: Disney Channel too, Yeah, and Muppets tonight. Yeah, so dressing.

1176
01:00:56,160 --> 01:01:00,400
Speaker 3: What happened with you last night was as so she

1177
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 3: canceled she had a bad cold.

1178
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 4: Are you sure she had a cold, Yes, I'm sure

1179
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 4: she had a curl. I heard a sneeze twice.

1180
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 3: Your Kniven taste amusing.

1181
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 2: Did you ever think she may have faked the sneeze

1182
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 2: to get out of the date with you?

1183
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:24,560
Speaker 3: Fake the snaze, no way ticket.

1184
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 2: Most women, at one time or another have faked a sneeze,

1185
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 2: take it out of a date?

1186
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 3: Really well, excuse aim moa, miss I'm jealous of babe.

1187
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 5: You don't think that I can tell the difference between

1188
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 5: a real sneeze and a fake sneeze. No, so good

1189
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 5: killing it with the performance.

1190
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 2: Oh oh my god, that's about how people sneeze.

1191
01:01:53,880 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 6: Oh yo Channel, No god, this is your titus.

1192
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:23,840
Speaker 2: I love the Disney Channel logo just hanging out down.

1193
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:28,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1194
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 2: Wow, way that all have what cheese having less?

1195
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 4: Peppa hey.

1196
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 3: Ship.

1197
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 5: That was when you said it was a fake sneeze.

1198
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 5: I'm like, okay, they'll play with it. I didn't expect

1199
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 5: her to be daggering the table like that under.

1200
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:54,840
Speaker 2: Her feet, the little thing she.

1201
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 4: Was pumping the even a part where like Billy Crystal

1202
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:02,080
Speaker 4: starts like doing a weird what do you do?

1203
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 1: That stopped that man gets so weird about Miss.

1204
01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:08,040
Speaker 4: Piggy, I mean, are weird about Miss Piggy.

1205
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,919
Speaker 2: This ciscal thing. This ciscal thing really says it all.

1206
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:14,760
Speaker 2: Where he's like, oh, she's so amazing, she's and did

1207
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 2: you see her legs? And you're like, oh, like there's

1208
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 2: there's the line. I remember. I never watched it, but

1209
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 2: I'm always like one small illness away from watching. Do

1210
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 2: you remember Lady Gaga and the Muppets did like special together?

1211
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 2: It was like maybe ten years ago, but Lady Gaga

1212
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 2: and the Muppets did a big thing together. And I

1213
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,439
Speaker 2: never saw it, but I feel like she and Miss

1214
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 2: Piggy must have really been vibing, because that's a brain

1215
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 2: of Carpenter is going to be in a Muppet special.

1216
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 3: Wow and lo it was a holiday spectacular, is what

1217
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:56,160
Speaker 3: they did.

1218
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yes, twenty thirteen with Oh God, twenty thirteen

1219
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 2: with guest stars Joseph Gordon Levitt.

1220
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 4: Of course he's.

1221
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 2: He's not fucking like that these days. I mean, Jameson

1222
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 2: Siegel briefly had custody of the Muppets and then he

1223
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 2: had to give them back, and that's that's for the best.

1224
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 3: Probably, that's true. That's true.

1225
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 4: That was a wild time when we were just like,

1226
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:24,040
Speaker 4: let's see what Jason Siegel does with it. It's like, oh,

1227
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 4: just have him and a new Muppet he made up

1228
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 4: be on screen.

1229
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, the new Muppet, Like, what the fuck was that that?

1230
01:04:31,240 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 2: But the songs were great.

1231
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 4: The songs were really good. I thought that movie was

1232
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 4: like pretty fun and the and the music was good.

1233
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 1: He just didn't need the new guy.

1234
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 4: No, what was his name, Walter? They didn't even give

1235
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:46,680
Speaker 4: him a cool name. I don't know Walter, I work

1236
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 4: in it. What the Miss Piggy, Kermit, the Frog and Walter,

1237
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 4: which I guess was kind of the point. But that

1238
01:04:54,600 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 4: point that sucks, all right? Any anything else about Miss Piggy.

1239
01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 3: You guys want to talk about before we get out

1240
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 3: of here. No, I was just I think before the recording,

1241
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 3: I was just.

1242
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:10,200
Speaker 5: Saying, it's funny that how how much of a cultural

1243
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 5: mainstay Miss Piggy is because we had like Donald Trump.

1244
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 3: Calling people piggy.

1245
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 5: There's like TikTok videos I'm seeing talking about Miss Piggy

1246
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 5: not being in the Epstein files. And then there was

1247
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 5: a story about the woman who allegedly hit a child

1248
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 5: on a plane because the child called her Misspeaky.

1249
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 4: Couldn't have been the first time a child has called

1250
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:34,440
Speaker 4: her miss.

1251
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 5: Marland woman is facing charges after police in Florida said

1252
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 5: she hit a child who made fun of her on

1253
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 5: a flight from Orlando, holy that she slammed the child's

1254
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 5: head into the window of the plane for corner Miss

1255
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 5: to say a lot energy a legacy.

1256
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 2: You can look like anything a legacy you can look like, Yeah,

1257
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 2: I'm just happy that, Like I mean, it's like the

1258
01:05:57,920 --> 01:05:59,920
Speaker 2: fact that kids still know who she is even though

1259
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 2: Muppets haven't really like put out a successful project in.

1260
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:03,840
Speaker 4: Like fifteen years.

1261
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, for their whole lives is like crazy.

1262
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:09,160
Speaker 5: You's got to be like, I mean, the same way,

1263
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,480
Speaker 5: like I show my kid that stuff because I'm like, yeah,

1264
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 5: you're gonna love this bullshit. I love these freaky fucking muppets.

1265
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 5: You're gonna love them too, Yeah, And they do, and

1266
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 5: they fucking do. Like it's it's like it feels like

1267
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 5: one of the few things of like I've tried to

1268
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,320
Speaker 5: show my son like other shit like I thought was

1269
01:06:26,360 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 5: cool from my child, and he's like this shit like

1270
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 5: you can just tell. I mean, he's like not even

1271
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 5: three yet, but it's very clear when something captivates him

1272
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 5: or not. And I showed him the Muppet Christmas Carol.

1273
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 5: His attention was there the entire time. I could not

1274
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 5: believe it.

1275
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 2: And I'm a man of taste, A man of taste. Yeah,

1276
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 2: that's the best Christmas movie. I think it is, like

1277
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 2: truly my favorite Christmas.

1278
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 3: He loves Michael Kine. He loves Michael.

1279
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 4: Knee, Jamie, where can people find you? Follow you all

1280
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 4: that good stuff?

1281
01:06:58,000 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 1: You can find me on the back.

1282
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 2: To cast every week, Yeah, every Thursday from now till

1283
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:06,200
Speaker 2: the end of time. Mark my words. Caitlyn Toronto and

1284
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 2: I are gonna cover movies from an intersexual feminist perspective

1285
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:16,160
Speaker 2: and uh then mostly I think Instagram Jamie Christ Superstar.

1286
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I.

1287
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 2: Haven't been posting as much. I'm starting to feel too healthy,

1288
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 2: So maybe I'll start.

1289
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 5: You gotta get back in there, I gotta get call

1290
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:28,640
Speaker 5: you back, let it summon you back into the pit.

1291
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:30,280
Speaker 3: Miles.

1292
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:31,240
Speaker 4: Where can people find you?

1293
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 3: Everywhere? Wow? Perfect? All right, all right, that's it.

1294
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 4: Sorry, that's stick around University.

1295
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, university.

1296
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it comes out on Christmas or Christmas Eve.

1297
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 3: Nine?

1298
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 4: Have we been doing this for that many years?

1299
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 2: Hasn't gotten any better? And and this year is not

1300
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 2: going to be different? Wow, just keeps getting longer. You

1301
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:04,479
Speaker 2: Santa U x oh yeah, X is gonna be God.

1302
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,919
Speaker 5: We're gonna do like a live performance like the Disney Theater,

1303
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 5: the Disney Hall or something.

1304
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 2: I've started to apply for grants because we got it.

1305
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 2: We gotta get this in the Dolby. We gotta get

1306
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 2: in the Dolby, I think, or at least Gromans. We

1307
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 2: gotta get Gromans.

1308
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, that's easy. That's easy.

1309
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 4: Let's figure it out.

1310
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:23,839
Speaker 3: We'll do the Mantlebond easy.

1311
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 1: I'd even take the roof, come on, yeah.

1312
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely take the Montalban roof. It's beautiful up there. Anyway.

1313
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:33,120
Speaker 3: Stay tuned, Stay tuned.

1314
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:35,440
Speaker 4: Stay tuned. Stick around for the No No No notebook

1315
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 4: dump where I get to stuff that I didn't get

1316
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:44,599
Speaker 4: to in the episode. And bye bye bye. All right,

1317
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:49,520
Speaker 4: that was our episode. Always great to see Jamie loftus.

1318
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 4: This is the No No No notebook dump where I

1319
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 4: get to stuff that I didn't get to in the

1320
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 4: main episode that I wanted to. On the subject to

1321
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:03,200
Speaker 4: Bonnie Air, miss Piggy's designer, this has nothing to do

1322
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 4: with Miss Piggy, so I didn't bring it up in

1323
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 4: our conversation, but a quick anecdote that I discovered during

1324
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:12,719
Speaker 4: research that my brain couldn't put down, so I wanted

1325
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:15,760
Speaker 4: to pass it along to your brain, like the supernatural

1326
01:09:15,920 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 4: std from It follows. So Boddy Erickson, this accomplished designer.

1327
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 4: She's created Miss Piggy and the Philly fanatic, and she

1328
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:27,919
Speaker 4: gets asked to design the mascot for the biggest sports

1329
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:30,400
Speaker 4: franchise in the world. I think the New York Yankees.

1330
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:33,600
Speaker 4: I think it's them or the Dallas Cowboys, but you

1331
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:37,240
Speaker 4: know they're near the top. And so she creates this

1332
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:41,799
Speaker 4: large pinstriped bird like creature with a mustache. The mustache

1333
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 4: is designed to look like the most beloved Yankee on

1334
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 4: the team at the time, maybe of the decade of

1335
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:52,240
Speaker 4: the seventies, Yankees catcher Thurman Munson. He got a big mustache.

1336
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:56,360
Speaker 4: Bird has a big mustache. Win win. So as his

1337
01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:01,639
Speaker 4: debut as Dandy the Pinstripe Bird's debut is approaching, two

1338
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 4: things happen. I'm gonna pull from the Wikipedia here Bonnie

1339
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 4: Erickson's Wikipedia. On July tenth, nineteen seventy nine, the San

1340
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:13,640
Speaker 4: Diego Chicken, who was then working for the Seattle Mariners.

1341
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 4: Apparently mascots can be like kind of free agents and

1342
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:19,200
Speaker 4: move between teams, which I didn't realize, But so the

1343
01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 4: San Diego Chicken put a hex on Yankees pitcher Ron

1344
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 4: Gidry during a game at the Seattle Kingdom. Yankees outfielder

1345
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:31,680
Speaker 4: Lou Panella, who had gone to manage baseball teams responded

1346
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:35,240
Speaker 4: by chasing the mascot and throwing his glove at him.

1347
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:39,840
Speaker 4: In response, the Yankees owner George Steinbrenner said that mascots

1348
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:44,639
Speaker 4: have no place in baseball, which despite the imminent release

1349
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 4: of Dandy, who's supposed to be their mascot. So Dandy

1350
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:52,599
Speaker 4: does in fact debut in late July nineteen seventy nine,

1351
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:56,080
Speaker 4: weeks after the incident in Seattle, and then Thurman Munson

1352
01:10:56,720 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 4: dies in a plane crash on August second, like a

1353
01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:06,720
Speaker 4: week after Dandy is introduced. Dandy's immediately put on hiatus.

1354
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:10,160
Speaker 4: They eventually let him come into the stadium, but he's

1355
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:13,679
Speaker 4: confined to the upper deck area like the cheap seats,

1356
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:20,040
Speaker 4: and it doesn't work out. Ericson and her partner Harrison

1357
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:24,760
Speaker 4: declined the Yankees' request to sign another lease. They feel

1358
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 4: the mascot didn't receive the necessary support from management. So yeah,

1359
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 4: you win some, you lose some. She goes on to

1360
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 4: design plenty of other mascots, has a bunch of mascots

1361
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 4: still roaming stadiums in the NBA. She describes her mascots

1362
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:42,760
Speaker 4: as all being gentle anarchists, which fucking rules but I

1363
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 4: think that speaks to the power of puppets and mascots.

1364
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 4: Back to Miss Piggy, a couple ideas I wanted to

1365
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 4: get at but couldn't quite get right in our conversation.

1366
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:56,599
Speaker 4: One has to do with Miss Piggy's relationship with Kermit

1367
01:11:56,680 --> 01:12:01,519
Speaker 4: the Frog, which obviously a very part of her mythos

1368
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:05,760
Speaker 4: and iconography. I didn't spend enough time talking about it

1369
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:09,599
Speaker 4: in the episode because it's kind of confusing, Like they're together,

1370
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 4: they get married in either Muppets Take Manhattan or The

1371
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 4: Great Muppet Caper I forget, but then like that gets

1372
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 4: retconned out. They say the priest was like actually defrocked,

1373
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:24,759
Speaker 4: like sort of that, so that is no longer canon.

1374
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:27,599
Speaker 4: But they're just always back and forth. They say they're

1375
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:31,439
Speaker 4: life partners who live together. Kermit has said they've never

1376
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:35,800
Speaker 4: been together. It's the ultimate will they won't they, which

1377
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:39,000
Speaker 4: makes sense from a narrative perspective, But you know, beyond

1378
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 4: the obvious narrative hook, I think there's another way that

1379
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:45,599
Speaker 4: it's important to her status as an icon, because so

1380
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:47,960
Speaker 4: my working theory of the icons we've covered so far

1381
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:51,760
Speaker 4: is that it helps to have some contradiction at the

1382
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 4: core of like our perception of you, you know, like

1383
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 4: so our brains can't just like put you down. That's

1384
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,200
Speaker 4: what that's what my brain wants to do. When I'm

1385
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:04,920
Speaker 4: introduced to a new famous person or a character, I

1386
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,639
Speaker 4: just want to put him down. There's too many famous

1387
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:11,680
Speaker 4: people and characters. I'm already holding all this shit. I

1388
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 4: don't want to I don't want to have to know

1389
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:17,080
Speaker 4: another one. So if a character or like a person

1390
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:20,400
Speaker 4: is what you expect, if it's like a jock who

1391
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:22,680
Speaker 4: seems like a cocky dick, or like a nerd who

1392
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 4: seems like he lacks confidence, I'm like, I know who

1393
01:13:26,520 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 4: that is. I can just put them away in a

1394
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:30,479
Speaker 4: drawer and forget about them. But so all of these

1395
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 4: characters so far, or you know, real people with Einstein

1396
01:13:34,080 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 4: who become iconic, have something unexpected, like some contradiction. So

1397
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:44,519
Speaker 4: with Einstein, a super genius who looks sloppy as hell,

1398
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:47,680
Speaker 4: like can't remember to put his clothes on before he

1399
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 4: walks out the door, and we pretend he was a

1400
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 4: slow child because that's important to us. We want that contradiction.

1401
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 4: He's not like a Benedict Cumberbatch character who's a genius

1402
01:13:58,160 --> 01:14:01,920
Speaker 4: he's like an absent space see is that guy on

1403
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 4: something type genius rcle nerd. But he's also extremely confident

1404
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:12,879
Speaker 4: and unflappable. And then with Miss Piggy, beyond the central

1405
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:16,680
Speaker 4: contradiction of like glamorous pig lipstick on a pig as

1406
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 4: a businessman like to say, you know, that joke never

1407
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 4: even really occurred to me. But the contradiction that I

1408
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:26,799
Speaker 4: think is important is that she's a motivated career woman

1409
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 4: who can and will beat the shit out of you

1410
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:34,360
Speaker 4: to like get to the top. She's also primarily driven

1411
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 4: by her romantic love of Kermit the Frog, Like she'll

1412
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:41,479
Speaker 4: cozy up to a producer to get a role, but

1413
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:46,960
Speaker 4: ultimately she just wants to marry this mild mannered, multi

1414
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 4: talented absolute ten. But then she'll also just like bail

1415
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 4: on him repeatedly in order to put her career first.

1416
01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:57,960
Speaker 4: She's also sweet and sensitive, but a fucking straight up cannibal.

1417
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:01,519
Speaker 4: So that's one idea that a contradiction is helpful to

1418
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:05,679
Speaker 4: build an icon. And then another idea about why she's

1419
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 4: so iconic is where we were when she was introduced,

1420
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 4: with our relationship to puppetry and just sexual politics at

1421
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 4: that point in history. I think Miss Piggy stands out

1422
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:20,800
Speaker 4: among muppets for some of the reasons we talked about.

1423
01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:24,719
Speaker 4: She's a superstar in the narrative, but then she reads

1424
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:27,240
Speaker 4: as a superstar on screen to the point that she

1425
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:30,240
Speaker 4: made Gene Siskel come in his pants, which probably wasn't

1426
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 4: that hard to do. But I do think like the

1427
01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 4: way that she was imbued with this kind of outsized

1428
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 4: energy that just like leaps off the screen and gives

1429
01:15:41,479 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 4: Gene Siskel a boner, is she really like gave Frank

1430
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:48,720
Speaker 4: Oz an outlet for what turned out to be a

1431
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 4: very developed and interesting feminine energy that he wasn't really

1432
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:57,040
Speaker 4: allowed to express in any other way. I don't even

1433
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 4: know if he knew that he was looking to express,

1434
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 4: and people couldn't really get that anywhere else in like

1435
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:09,559
Speaker 4: super mainstream culture at the time, and obviously we wanted it.

1436
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:12,880
Speaker 4: Look at how people have reacted to the freeing of

1437
01:16:13,120 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 4: drag culture and like the mainstreaming of drag culture. So

1438
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 4: Miss Piggy comes along at a time of like toxic

1439
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:22,160
Speaker 4: masculinity in the late seventies, at a time when like

1440
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 4: Frank Oz has to disclaim that he's straight when he's

1441
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:28,920
Speaker 4: talking about playing her, and she's just like bursting with

1442
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 4: the divine feminine and like could express confidence and body

1443
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 4: positivity and horniness, and she could get away with it

1444
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:40,800
Speaker 4: because she's a puppet, you know. And again, like puppetry

1445
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:46,600
Speaker 4: is this ancient alchemical art that wasn't being used so

1446
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:52,839
Speaker 4: ingeniously and with like such mainstream success anywhere else. I

1447
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 4: quoted Bonnie Eeric cent Er Henson talking about I think

1448
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 4: they've both talked about how humans have used puppets for

1449
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 4: thousands of years in like religious rituals and healing and witchcraft.

1450
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:07,519
Speaker 4: Look at how lou Panella reacted to a chicken mascot

1451
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 4: putting a curse on their picture. Like you could say

1452
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:12,920
Speaker 4: he was being an idiot, but he was also reacting

1453
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 4: to this ancient, powerful human connection to this art form.

1454
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:20,679
Speaker 4: And then Henson comes along and reconnects these jaded, pop

1455
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:24,880
Speaker 4: culture drenched minds around the world with this ancient, deep

1456
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:29,880
Speaker 4: yearning to watch someone breathe life and fully formed characters

1457
01:17:29,880 --> 01:17:34,040
Speaker 4: into inanimate objects. And also officially it's kid stuff. People

1458
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:37,880
Speaker 4: consuming mainstream culture don't have their guards up, so ideas

1459
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:41,639
Speaker 4: and energy comes through that they wouldn't usually let through.

1460
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 4: This world of mainstream culture that was just getting used

1461
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:48,600
Speaker 4: to the idea of like strong women let alone drag.

1462
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:50,639
Speaker 3: Acts allows through this new.

1463
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:54,400
Speaker 4: Dimension of like confident divodom that people weren't ready for,

1464
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,720
Speaker 4: and it turns out we're deeply ready for at the

1465
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:00,160
Speaker 4: same time. All right, that's going to do it? Or

1466
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:03,960
Speaker 4: the Miss Piggy episode next week. An icon who I

1467
01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 4: don't think really fits with that conflict at the core

1468
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:10,479
Speaker 4: of the icon rule that I just made up. I

1469
01:18:10,520 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 4: think he kind of takes your expectations of the type

1470
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:17,439
Speaker 4: of person he would be and takes it like thirty

1471
01:18:17,479 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 4: steps further, just like maximalism all the way down. We're

1472
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:26,680
Speaker 4: talking Arnold Twartzenegger. So we have a great guest for

1473
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:29,960
Speaker 4: that one. So I will talk to you then, or

1474
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:31,760
Speaker 4: I'll talk to you in a few hours if you

1475
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:34,240
Speaker 4: listen to the regular episodes of The Daily Zechast.

1476
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 3: Bye bye,