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Speaker 1: Welcome to Desperately Devoted.

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Speaker 2: Think of us as your favorite neighbors as we chat

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Speaker 2: about life and relationships, all.

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Speaker 3: While we revisit the iconic show Desperate Housewives together.

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Speaker 2: I'm Terry Hatcher, I'm Andrea Bowen.

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Speaker 4: And I'm Emerson Tenny. Okay, welcome back here.

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Speaker 2: We are it Desperately Devoted, and we are here for

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Speaker 2: episode nineteen. We live alone and like it and like it.

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Speaker 4: It's just so aggressive. I know, what do you like from?

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Speaker 2: Do we know?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 4: I honestly don't. I don't know. I actually have no idea.

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Speaker 1: I think so. It aired on April seventeenth, two thousand

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Speaker 1: and five.

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Speaker 2: Two thousand and five, and we don't know why it's

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Speaker 2: called this, but I mean it does beg the question,

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Speaker 2: and especially it begs it of me because I do

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Speaker 2: live alone.

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Speaker 4: But I do like it.

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Speaker 2: I have learned to like it. But I thought, this

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Speaker 2: is like the first really big theme that I think

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Speaker 2: actually a lot of people are struggling with being alone.

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Speaker 2: I think a big theme in this episode period is loneliness,

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Speaker 2: the difference between being alone and feeling lonely. I think

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Speaker 2: those things get conflated a lot. I think people feel

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Speaker 2: lonely even when they're in relationships. So yeah, I was

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Speaker 2: super happy to talk about my journey because I mean,

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Speaker 2: I actually I don't want to say I wear living

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Speaker 2: alone with pride. That sounds that sounds excessive. But I

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Speaker 2: do think I have earned some level of happiness in

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Speaker 2: being alone that has been very conscious and I've worked

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Speaker 2: for And I don't mind like sharing that because I

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Speaker 2: think there are a lot of people who are alone.

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, the statistic on being a single

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Speaker 2: woman over fifty and ever, the chance of you getting

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Speaker 2: remarried is like eighty percent you will not Oh really,

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's very very high.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: But also like you can't go through your life like

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Speaker 2: in some state of longing and like less than you know,

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Speaker 2: that's just no fun. So I feel like I've worked

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Speaker 2: really hard at like being social, finding what I'm passionate about,

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Speaker 2: connecting with people that you know, encourage me to do

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Speaker 2: new things, being there for my friends, being there to

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Speaker 2: help people, having people help me, Like, all of that

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Speaker 2: has been very conscious in my experience. That's led me

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Speaker 2: to not feeling lonely.

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Speaker 5: Right, living alone by choice not by default is different too,

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Speaker 5: like looking at it, like I choose to live alone.

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Speaker 1: I think it's funny.

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Speaker 5: Because right before we started recording, I was describing my

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Speaker 5: upbringing and it's very interesting in that I'm the youngest

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Speaker 5: of six kids.

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Speaker 1: As we know, we have two parents.

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Speaker 5: For ten years we lived in a two bedroom apartment

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Speaker 5: in Manhattan, so that's eight people in a two bedroom.

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Speaker 5: The logistics of that were insane. So I was never alone.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I was a kid, so that was fine

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Speaker 5: with me. But I've noticed that my siblings and I

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Speaker 5: as we got older, we really do love our alone space.

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Speaker 5: And I think it's because we never had it, like

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Speaker 5: there was no corner to go in and get any privacy.

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Speaker 5: So I now, of course live with my husband and

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Speaker 5: we're about to have a baby, and so I'm not

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Speaker 5: living alone.

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Speaker 1: But I have always really.

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Speaker 2: Will be alone. Again that you will not pee alone,

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Speaker 2: you will not shower alone, you will you will do

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Speaker 2: nothing like it.

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Speaker 3: But I love my alone time and opposite upbringing only child,

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Speaker 3: I feel like.

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Speaker 4: To me it is a really sacred space.

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Speaker 3: And I have lived with people, I have lived with

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Speaker 3: people I have dated before, and I do like it.

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Speaker 3: And I also really I think about the conversation that

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Speaker 3: Mike cous with Deirdre's dad when he finds out that

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Speaker 3: Deirdre is the body in the box.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so this happens at the very beginning of

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Speaker 2: episode nineteen.

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Speaker 3: We big reveal that we find out that the dis

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Speaker 3: web it's Deirdre. Yeah, chopped up, I know, it really gruesome.

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Speaker 3: And they say in that conversation how it's difficult to

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Speaker 3: travel in life without a companion, and I think living

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Speaker 3: alone and having a companion you can do both of

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Speaker 3: those things. I mean, I think about what you're saying, Mom.

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Speaker 3: The idea of our companions being a romantic companion does

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Speaker 3: not always and also a romantic companion that you choose

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Speaker 3: to live with does not always have to be the case.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we have Deirdre's dad clearly thinking about his

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Speaker 3: life companion as his daughter, and I think our friends

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Speaker 3: and our chosen family, and of course our actual family,

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Speaker 3: these are all versions of people that we can find deep,

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Speaker 3: meaningful companionship with to go through life with so we

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Speaker 3: don't end up feeling lonely even if we are living alone.

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Speaker 3: And this is something that I see also come up

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Speaker 3: in this episode between Lynette's relationship with Missus McCluskey, which

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Speaker 3: obviously we can get into more later, and I think

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Speaker 3: she is one of the most kind of moving speeches

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Speaker 3: Lynette does toward the end of this episode to missus

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Speaker 3: McCluskey that I definitely want to talk about.

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Speaker 2: Well later, let's talk about that. That storyline between Lynette

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Speaker 2: and missus McCluskey, you know, not necessarily chronological, but I

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Speaker 2: do think it might be the most compelling story that

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Speaker 2: happened in this episode of where at the beginning of

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Speaker 2: the episode, you know, you see that Lynette really can't

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Speaker 2: stand missus McClusky dreaming, yes, so much so that she's

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Speaker 2: daydreaming about the Swedish perfect family with the two twin

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Speaker 2: girls that are eventually going to marry her two twin sons.

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Speaker 2: And she's really got the whole thing.

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Speaker 4: A fantastic wedding that she doesn't pay for, right.

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Speaker 2: Right, you know, when mclusky drops dead and the Swedish

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Speaker 2: family moves in like this is the fantasy. But then

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Speaker 2: McCluskey almost does drop dead, and instead of letting her

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Speaker 2: die in the street, Lynette chooses to go over and

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Speaker 2: call nine one one, and thus this sort of like

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Speaker 2: no good deed goes on punished. There's just a situation

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Speaker 2: for Lynette comes to fruition, and when missus McClusky then

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Speaker 2: sort of over inserts herself in Lynette's life and you

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Speaker 2: can see that she's sort of craving some sort of companionship.

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Speaker 4: This could really make me get choked up.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I know, we say no good deed goes

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Speaker 3: unpunished because it is funny and comical that this kind

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Speaker 3: of hated neighbor across the street from Lynette now won't

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Speaker 3: leave Lynette alone after Lynette.

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Speaker 4: Helps take her to the hospital.

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Speaker 3: But I really feel, I mean, there are so many

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Speaker 3: studies that loneliness is like an epidemic in the United

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Speaker 3: States right now today, and I feel from missus McCluskey

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Speaker 3: that she is so alone that one person helping her

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Speaker 3: one time. Now she's like unleashing all of the moments

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Speaker 3: she wants to connect with someone. She's bringing her a

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Speaker 3: Tiffany lamp, she's bringing her avocados, She's saying, let's make

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Speaker 3: guacamole together.

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Speaker 1: But the pronunciation, I just have to note that she

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Speaker 1: said guaca. Molly love so much.

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Speaker 5: I know at that moment when they're wheeling, you know,

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Speaker 5: they're putting her in the gurney and she's in the

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Speaker 5: back of the ambulance and she asked Lynette to go

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Speaker 5: with her, and Lynette's like, I can, I've got things

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Speaker 5: to do, and then she says, I'm scared.

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Speaker 4: I know when I could just I couldn't.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead.

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Speaker 3: Well I could tear up thinking about the moments in

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Speaker 3: Missus mcclusky's life that she is just alone in her

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Speaker 3: house all of the time, feeling like she can't open

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Speaker 3: her pill bottles, feeling like she can't and then she

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Speaker 3: grasps on, you know, albeit too hard to the rope

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Speaker 3: of friendship to Lynette. But I wish and I like

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Speaker 3: that Lynette comes around at the end of the episode,

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Speaker 3: because I kind of wished that Lynette had the tools

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Speaker 3: earlier on to say, listen, I am glad that I

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Speaker 3: was able to show up for you in this moment.

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Speaker 3: I have a crazy, chaotic life. I have all these kids,

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Speaker 3: I have all these things I need to run. I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to be able to be best friends. Let's

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Speaker 3: do our shopping together, let's make guacamalle together. Because I'm

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Speaker 3: just in a different place in my life than obviously

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Speaker 3: Missus McCluskey is. As someone who's probably retired. I wish

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Speaker 3: that she says that sooner. But I think when she

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Speaker 3: ultimately comes back and lets herself into missus McCluskey's house

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Speaker 3: and helps her with the arthritis medication, she hasn't been

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Speaker 3: able to open the door because she hasn't taken her medication,

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Speaker 3: And she says, you know, we are two human beings

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Speaker 3: living on the same piece of earth and helping each

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Speaker 3: other out once in a while is.

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Speaker 4: The least that we can do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I felt like that was just such a I mean,

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Speaker 2: it might be one of my favorite lines of the

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Speaker 2: whole season.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: And also because of the way it resonates in today's society.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's worth it's worth saying again. And I

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Speaker 2: know you have it in front of you. I have

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Speaker 2: it too. Oh uh yeah, go ahead, Can you say

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Speaker 2: it again?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm gonna miss the beginning and the tail end,

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Speaker 3: but that we are two human beings living on the

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Speaker 3: same piece of earth and helping each other out once

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Speaker 3: in a while is the least we can do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's that is just I mean, please, if

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Speaker 2: you're listening, take that into your heart and behave that

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Speaker 2: way in your community. You know, she she brings up

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Speaker 2: another thing before she says that, and and they're kind

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Speaker 2: of discussing how much, you know, it's a tough thing

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Speaker 2: when you need help and you don't want to ask

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Speaker 2: for help. And we've kind of touched about this before,

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Speaker 2: but you know, missus McClusky is like, I can open

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Speaker 2: my bottles, but really I can't open my bottles. Remind

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Speaker 2: me of Grandma, yeah, you know, and and me a

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Speaker 2: little bit, you know, and and and Lynette's like, it's

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Speaker 2: just not a big deal. Like you, I'm oblig half

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Speaker 2: of life. Half of life is obligations. And I thought like, wow,

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Speaker 2: is that true? And and and is it bad? I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's sort of worth looking at, Like it's kind of

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Speaker 2: falls into even like when we're random people say to you,

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Speaker 2: you know, how are you And you're like, I'm fine, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, and but you're not really fine.

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Speaker 4: I don't say say I stopped doing that.

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Speaker 3: I started saying the more part to just random fucking people,

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Speaker 3: and you have to say it oftentimes really does open

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Speaker 3: the conversation up to people being like, yeah, I've been

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Speaker 3: having a really hard month too, I you know, because

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Speaker 3: I don't like that the blanket is I'm fine, I'm good,

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Speaker 3: And I actually think it diminishes when you actually are

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Speaker 3: doing good. Yeah, that's our canned response that we say

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Speaker 3: all the time, right when you know whatever, within reasons.

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Speaker 5: But you think saying I'm fine feels obligatory, feels like

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Speaker 5: something you do to just kind of for you.

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Speaker 2: Asking how are you? You know whatever, and and lively,

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Speaker 2: you know, open the door for somebody going into the

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Speaker 2: coffee shop, or you know, oh, my neighbor needs me

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Speaker 2: to pull in their trash cans, or like some of

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Speaker 2: these things that idea, that feeling that you have of

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Speaker 2: like I don't really want to be doing this, but

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do it anyway. And I guess I

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Speaker 2: would argue that it's a good thing like that, that

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Speaker 2: your obligatory feelings, if you let them, can lead you

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Speaker 2: to feeling like a good person, Like you know, they

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Speaker 2: can lead you to feeling like I actually did help somebody.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I didn't even really want to, but like I did,

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Speaker 2: and now that it's over, Yeah, that was good, right,

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Speaker 2: I should have done that, And there can be lessons

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Speaker 2: in it.

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Speaker 4: I think there can be a.

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Speaker 3: Lot of joy found in things that we might initially

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Speaker 3: think of as an obligation or something like, oh, I

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Speaker 3: should do this. I'm thinking about the time that I

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Speaker 3: was in London and I was crossing this bridge and

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Speaker 3: I was going to meet at dinner. It's like a

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Speaker 3: long bridge, and I was kind of running late, and

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Speaker 3: there was a woman with a stroller who was clearly

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Speaker 3: struggling to like bring the stroller down the stairs. And

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Speaker 3: I was going up the stairs, and I stopped at

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Speaker 3: the top of the stairs and picked up the bottom

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Speaker 3: of the stroller and we held it and we carried

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Speaker 3: it back down the stairs together, and then I went

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Speaker 3: back up and she was like, oh.

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Speaker 4: My gosh, thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: And I have to say, the moments of human interaction

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Speaker 3: you open yourself up to when you let yourself be

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Speaker 3: led by maybe a feeling of obligation of what the

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Speaker 3: quote unquote right thing to do is.

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Speaker 4: Does enhance your quality of life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's what I was trying to say,

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Speaker 2: said much better.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 5: I also think it's a delicate thing, the idea of

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Speaker 5: aging and respecting an aging person's independence if they're able

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Speaker 5: to live alone, while also trying to be available to

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Speaker 5: an elderly person who lives alone. So that they have companionship. Right,

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Speaker 5: It's like my grandma is, she'll be ninety two next month.

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Speaker 1: She is sharp as attack she is.

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Speaker 5: She's lived alone completely independently for a very long time

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Speaker 5: since my grandpa passed away, which was.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety seven. I think, oh wow, yeah.

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Speaker 5: And she has always said to me a few interesting

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Speaker 5: things about that idea of living alone. She feels like

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Speaker 5: it's kept her young. She's not necessarily stubborn about it.

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Speaker 5: She's opened to the idea of when the time comes

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Speaker 5: that she needs more support going in that direction. But

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Speaker 5: another thing that this is sort of tangentially related, but

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Speaker 5: I just thought about it while we were talking, is

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Speaker 5: that when it comes to respecting older people. She said

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Speaker 5: this to me once, and I have thought about it

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Speaker 5: every single other time I've ever encountered an older person,

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Speaker 5: which is that we are so quick to finish their

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Speaker 5: sentences or move the situation on like faster because they

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Speaker 5: might require more time or more patience, And that the

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Speaker 5: most it is such a It robs you so much

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Speaker 5: in that moment. It sucks so much of your life

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Speaker 5: out to not for someone to not give you the

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Speaker 5: space to finish your own sentence and it's not that

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Speaker 5: applicable to the Missus McCluskey storyline in this episode.

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Speaker 1: I just was thinking about when you are the person

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Speaker 1: who is in a situation with someone who's.

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Speaker 2: Older, finish your sentence please, Okay, No, it's right, And

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Speaker 2: I'm going to approach my parents with that. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I do you know, because I've mentioned before that I

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Speaker 2: am kind of right in this situation and there are

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Speaker 2: things like that, like you can't open the bottle, you

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Speaker 2: don't know how to use the television remote, like you know,

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Speaker 2: these sorts of things that seem so easy for me

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Speaker 2: that I can be quick to just I can do it.

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Speaker 2: I can do it. I can do it. And it

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Speaker 2: is a really good thing to have the patience to

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Speaker 2: let them do what they can do. And I would

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Speaker 2: go back to what you were just saying and then

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Speaker 2: we can move on. But it is in those moments

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Speaker 2: of patience the connection of humanness can reveal surprising things

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Speaker 2: and usually good, rewarding things you didn't expect. And so

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Speaker 2: maybe a little takeaway is to look at what feels

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Speaker 2: like an obligation as a potential opportunity thought and I

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Speaker 2: really good reframe.

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Speaker 3: I like it, and I think you know, there was

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Speaker 3: a lot of sensitivity given to this idea of human

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Speaker 3: connection and interpersonal relationships, extra sensitivity in this episode, and

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Speaker 3: I wonder, I just have to wonder if this is

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Speaker 3: partially because this episode did have a female director and writer,

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Speaker 3: Arlene Sandford.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember I'm working with Arlene? I do, because

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Speaker 2: she directed a couple of episodes. Yeah, I seem to recall.

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Speaker 2: You know, I have this weird thing that happens to

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Speaker 2: me with my memory. Well, one is I don't have one.

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Speaker 2: But other than that, when I do remember things, sometimes

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Speaker 2: when they're not specific, they come in a feeling like

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Speaker 2: I've met people in a hallway, you know, and I've

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Speaker 2: just been like the feeling is like I know that

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Speaker 2: I know this person and I have a good feeling,

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Speaker 2: or I have a bad feeling and I don't remember

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Speaker 2: what happened at all. I just have this good or bad.

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Speaker 2: And when I think about Arlene, I think good. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think things like she knew her shit in the

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Speaker 2: comedy Lane. I liked her being a woman. I felt

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Speaker 2: like she knew what she was doing. Like there is

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Speaker 2: a thing in television. I don't know if it happens

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Speaker 2: so much now, but I felt like there was a

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Speaker 2: movement for these sort of guest directors to not actually

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Speaker 2: have very much agency and just kind of being told

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Speaker 2: by the producers what the vision was. And I used

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Speaker 2: to always think that was such a weird thing. It's

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Speaker 2: like hiring a really good actor and then giving them

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Speaker 2: a bunch of line readings, like why would you do that.

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Speaker 2: You're not allowing the person with the talent to be

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Speaker 2: creative and rise to the occasion and surprise you. You're

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Speaker 2: just telling them what you want them to do. And

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Speaker 2: I kind of feel like that with some of the

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Speaker 2: directors that I know were very talented that came through

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Speaker 2: Desperate House, that some of them were limited in their

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Speaker 2: own ability to sort of shine with what their specific

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Speaker 2: creativity was. Somehow, She's falling into that category for me,

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Speaker 2: but I could completely be making that up.

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Speaker 5: I also think it's got to be so challenging, and Emerson,

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Speaker 5: I wonder if you have aspirations to do episodic television

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Speaker 5: at all as a director, But I think it has

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Speaker 5: to be so challenging to come into an established show

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Speaker 5: and you've got all these actors who have a lot

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Speaker 5: of knowledge and experience of their characters and you have

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Speaker 5: writers who have been writing these characters, and you have

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Speaker 5: showrunners to factor in. You have all these things, and

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Speaker 5: if you're just coming in for the week, like you said,

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Speaker 5: it has to be a balance of like, I'm coming

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Speaker 5: in with ideas, I'm coming in ready to play and

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Speaker 5: be creative and also know that I'm slotted into an

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Speaker 5: already running machine.

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Speaker 1: And how does that balance work?

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Speaker 2: But I'm sure to answer your question, I just have

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Speaker 2: a feeling that she did bring that because I just

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Speaker 2: have good whatever it was, it just feels good. I

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Speaker 2: felt like I remember being happy she was there.

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Speaker 3: Well, I love to hear that, and I don't you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't personally have a ton I think it is

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Speaker 3: such a specific world and it's such a competitive world

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Speaker 3: to be going out to direct episodic television or any television,

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Speaker 3: and that I'm much more on the feature side of things.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I would approach TV as a writer, but

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Speaker 3: probably not as a director, although I'm thinking, and now

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Speaker 3: I'm like, maybe we have to get her on here

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Speaker 3: just to talk about this very question. A dear friend

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Speaker 3: of mine, Kate Herron, is an amazing director and writer.

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Speaker 3: She writes both features and TV and directs a lot

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Speaker 3: of TV and she's directed.

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Speaker 4: She just directed season two.

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Speaker 3: Episode four of the Last of Us, which was a

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Speaker 3: monster of an episode and.

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Speaker 2: That was where all the zombies came alive. Was Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and she rushed and I mean there were so many

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Speaker 2: zombies that had to be huge and episode direction.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And she's just she's really she's a badass episodic

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Speaker 3: director who goes up for these very specific tonal shows.

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Speaker 3: She's up for another big show right now that I

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Speaker 3: don't think I can talk about. And also has directed

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Speaker 3: episodes of Loki and like these huge worlds where you

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Speaker 3: come in with your particular vision and I just I'd

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Speaker 3: love to get.

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Speaker 2: Her tell that would be interesting. Well, another really crazy

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Speaker 2: storyline that was happening in this episode was with Brie

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Speaker 2: and Rex and Andrew. And I know that we all

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Speaker 2: have a lot of different reactions.

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Speaker 4: As a queer in the room, I have things to

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Speaker 4: say that you do. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Why are the craziest dinner party scenes always at Brion Rex's.

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Speaker 3: I mean they are the only people throwing dinner parties

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Speaker 3: except Lynette, which only does it for work or like revenge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I guess it's because she's the only one

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Speaker 2: that's good at it. They needed a Terry Hatcher on

387
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Speaker 2: the show, and then Terry could have thrown competing.

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Speaker 4: Dinner parties and Susan certainly did not.

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Speaker 2: Susan did not have those talents.

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Speaker 1: And a lot less religious judgment. I have a feeling.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So we've got Bri and Rex that are

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Speaker 2: picking up Andrew at the juvenile detention camp because he

393
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 2: has revealed that he's gay, and.

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Speaker 3: God forbid they leave him around two hundred boys after

395
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Speaker 3: that revelation.

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Speaker 2: That's what Brie thinks, and so she wants to get

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Speaker 2: him home. She wants to get him seeing the priest

398
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Speaker 2: from the church, she wants to get him into Christian

399
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Speaker 2: conversion camp.

400
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:20,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

401
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 2: And we find ourselves at the dinner table talking all

402
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Speaker 2: of this through.

403
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:24,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

404
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 3: And before that, she says my favorite, and I'm being

405
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,400
Speaker 3: very very sarcastic here, thing that I think people with

406
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 3: more traditional ideas about sexuality say when their children come out,

407
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,400
Speaker 3: which is, are you sure this isn't a phase?

408
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,640
Speaker 4: And then she says, well, I want.

409
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Speaker 3: To address this with Christian counseling before it becomes another

410
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 3: one of my least favorite phrases, a lifestyle. Wow, And

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Speaker 3: I just think I mean, I will just say as

412
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Speaker 3: for a moment before we get into the dinner scene,

413
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 3: both of those questions is this phase, you know, I

414
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 3: want you to be cognizant of this not becoming a lifestyle,

415
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,120
Speaker 3: which actually we just saw come up on I don't

416
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Speaker 3: know if anyone watched the current season of Love is Blind,

417
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,919
Speaker 3: but there are two people on that show who are

418
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 3: having a conversation about like their future potential kids, and

419
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Speaker 3: one of them says, what would you do if your

420
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Speaker 3: kid was gay? And she was like, well, I would

421
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 3: really want to make sure that they knew about what

422
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Speaker 3: it means to sign up for that lifestyle.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, wild wow.

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Speaker 3: I just it is so demeaning and also diminishing of

425
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Speaker 3: the idea of if we're talking about this overarching concept

426
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 3: of companionship, how it is difficult to go through the

427
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Speaker 3: world alone, the fact that who you choose to have

428
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Speaker 3: as a companion, who you love, who you navigate this

429
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:50,400
Speaker 3: shared piece of earth, with the fact that their gender

430
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 3: would have some bearing on something being a phase or

431
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 3: being a negative lifestyle, as opposed to just wow, I'm

432
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 3: so happy that you aren't alone in this crazy spinning planet.

433
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Speaker 4: To me, is just absolutely atrocious.

434
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Speaker 5: And well it comes these the source of these opinions

435
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 5: so often come wrapped up in hypocrisy in the first place,

436
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 5: right Like bre is coming at this as as speaking

437
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 5: as though this lifestyle phase choice that her son is

438
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 5: making is something.

439
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 2: There's a lot of quotation for the audience.

440
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, is somehow.

441
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,639
Speaker 5: The wrong path is saying that she and Rex's traditional

442
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 5: lifestyle is the goal the working Well, it's clearly working

443
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 5: out so well for them. I mean, it's it's so

444
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 5: not seeing that I just think that is often the

445
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 5: thing that makes me the angriest, which is just hypocrisy

446
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 5: in general.

447
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, and it does come back to beliefs,

448
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 2: and I think without I mean, I think I've I've

449
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 2: been fairly clear about the fact that I don't have

450
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 2: religious beliefs, and you know, I have a virtual sense

451
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 2: of my journey through the universe as a human, but

452
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 2: I'm not into organized religion. And but I think what

453
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 2: you can't argue with, whether you are into organized religion

454
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 2: or not, is that you know it comes from belief,

455
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 2: not from fact, and so so much of this, you know,

456
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: the same way I can believe that there isn't the

457
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 2: God in the way that Catholicism or or Christianity like

458
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 2: says it is. I can't prove that, so don't I

459
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 2: don't know, just like someone who does have that belief

460
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 2: can also not prove it. It's a belief. And when

461
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 2: beliefs becomes so strong that they hurt other people, that's

462
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 2: where I'm out. Yeah, you know, like you can't say

463
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 2: that the thing you believe is a strong enough reason

464
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 2: to hurt someone else. And that's where I get And

465
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 2: I have very caught up in the problematic of this,

466
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 2: but I do think again about Desperate Housewives, How great

467
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 2: that there's a character representing, you know, a conservative point

468
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: of view that people have and isn't often on television.

469
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 2: And so we're going to see her struggle and and

470
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 2: and express her thoughts, and you know, we're going to

471
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 2: see her kind of get her come up and too

472
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: because Andrew reveals that he has plans to really hurt

473
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 2: his mother.

474
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

475
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 3: Well, I was going to say I really before that

476
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 3: I love Andrew in this scene, this dinner party scene,

477
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 3: because we have the priest comes over and they're you know,

478
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 3: doing the whole spiel about Prade gayway. Yeah, exactly. Praie

479
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 3: gay Away, and Andrew says, I like myself, and Rex

480
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 3: also steps up and says, I'm going to love my

481
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 3: son no matter what. And I wrote, as I was

482
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 3: watching the episode, well, first I wrote you all caps,

483
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 3: and then I said, I need to say, do not

484
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 3: fucking change if you're gay. If you're gay, you're perfect,

485
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 3: don't ever hate yourself. And then I said, that's right, Andrew,

486
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 3: I love.

487
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 4: I am an emotional Yeah.

488
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 3: I love that he's able to sit at that table,

489
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 3: and he's kind of a character that I think has

490
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,239
Speaker 3: come across as very cocky and flawed obviously, but in

491
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 3: that moment and it doesn't feel spiteful. I think he

492
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 3: delivered that so well and earnestly. He goes, yeah, I

493
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 3: like myself. I'm not interested in going to your counseling.

494
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 3: I'm perfectly happy with who I am and I'm not

495
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 3: interested in changing that because I like who I am.

496
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 3: And I just I encourage you if you are living

497
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 3: in a state or a country, and there are plenty

498
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 3: right now where I think we are hearing the prey

499
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 3: the gay away kind of conversation.

500
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 4: You are completely perfect as you are.

501
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 3: And I hope that you know that and that you

502
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 3: can and channel some of Andrew's energy in this scene,

503
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 3: because yeah, that's just you're great.

504
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 2: So well, Bree does a crazy thing here where she

505
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 2: I mean, I just couldn't believe this. Where she compares

506
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: she says what she thinks is being a good thing.

507
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 2: I love you, I would love you even if you

508
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 2: were a murderer, as if being a murderer should be

509
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 2: compared equalized with being gay. I mean, what are you

510
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 2: talking about, lady. And then she also says, which I

511
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 2: think is bad parenting. She says, the reason I don't

512
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 2: want you to be gay is because you won't get

513
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 2: into heaven. And she could have stopped there, like, if

514
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: you have your religious beliefs, which I've already said I

515
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 2: don't agree with, but if you have your beliefs, and

516
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 2: your religious beliefs not facts, but beliefs, are that someone

517
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 2: who's gay won't get into heaven, Like, okay, you can

518
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 2: say that. But then she says, and all be lonely.

519
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: And that's when it's like, oh about you. This is

520
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 2: about you. This isn't actually about your son. This is

521
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 2: about you and what you're not going to get out

522
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 2: of it. And so many parents I do believe make

523
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 2: this mistake, and they somehow cloak it as loving their children,

524
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 2: but it really is about their own ego and their

525
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 2: own needs.

526
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 5: And I just have to say, I feel like I've

527
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 5: been a little bit hard on Rex throughout this first season,

528
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 5: and I think he's deserved it. But I think that

529
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 5: he was great in this episode, you know, in terms

530
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 5: of representing more accepting father's reaction. You know, we haven't

531
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 5: seen him be thrown by this news at all, Like

532
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 5: he is kind of just like we love our son well.

533
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: As Bries says, it's because he's into.

534
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 5: S and M right exactly, She's like, well, that's because

535
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 5: your perverse.

536
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really she needs she needs some help.

537
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 1: She needs some help coming around.

538
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 2: We do think they need some help.

539
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 3: Other people need some help just to jump into and

540
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,360
Speaker 3: this also idea of companionship and what we need from

541
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 3: other people. Other people who need help, I would say,

542
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 3: is Gabby, Oh my god and Carlos. Carlos refusing to

543
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 3: rip up the post nup that he made her sign

544
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 3: so forcefully in the previous episode that she had bruises.

545
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 4: All over her wrists.

546
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 3: Gabby has now kind of gone back to her affair

547
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 3: with John, and we have Carlos also holding over Gabby's

548
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 3: head that he has cut up all of her credit

549
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 3: cards and he's not giving her any money.

550
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: And can you guys help me?

551
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 5: I'm confused now what's going on with their financial situation?

552
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 5: I don't understand, Like, Okay, so now he's he's setting

553
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 5: up to go to jail to do the plea for

554
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 5: the eight months, but so they've got money in.

555
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 4: The meantime, Well, they got the settlement, they got.

556
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 5: The settlement, but so but they have access to the

557
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 5: settlement and and but.

558
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: Then also what did she quit the mall makeup job?

559
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 5: Gabby was working at the mall in a makeup store

560
00:28:58,400 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 5: at one point.

561
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: And now it's just.

562
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 2: An example of you know what happens when you're writing

563
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: a series and and you know, you see some showrunners

564
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 2: do it in a way where you don't have inconsistencies

565
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 2: and questions like this, and then you see some who don't.

566
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: And it's clearly because there was not a connective tissue,

567
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 2: long term arc plan, like a lot of this must

568
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: have been being written on the fly. And I'm not

569
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 2: saying that that makes it bad, because I think you

570
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 2: can see in the quality of the show that the

571
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: overarching goal was to be entertaining, and the and and

572
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 2: so there wasn't as much attention paid to the legitimacy

573
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: of the consistency. I know as an actor, and I'm

574
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 2: sure you could ask anybody who was on this show,

575
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: you know that that it's it's tough because you you

576
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: have in your mind a little bit of an idea

577
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 2: about who your character is, and then these things they

578
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 2: don't they're they're like cards all falling apart, like you

579
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 2: don't you know, you look at it and you go, wait,

580
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 2: didn't I have a job? I mean I used to say, wait,

581
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 2: aren't I a children's book illustrator? And then like, I mean,

582
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: I think after season one you never saw me draw

583
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 2: anything ever again, Like you draw a lot and you

584
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 2: know what, but that's gone, Like what happened to that career?

585
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: Like you never you never see Susan go to a

586
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: publisher house or whatever, like her whole job life just

587
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,239
Speaker 2: went out the window. And you know if like you,

588
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 2: I'm not writing it, like I don't have any say

589
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 2: in writing it. I just do what shows up on

590
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 2: the page. And so, yeah, it is weird. I don't

591
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: think you're gonna get an answer to the money. But

592
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: what I do think you might get an answer to,

593
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: or we could explore that. It's interesting is that Gabby

594
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: finds herself with John's credit card because he's been he

595
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: makes so much money as a gardener. Now that he

596
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 2: can he can give Gabby loves her so much he

597
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 2: can give her the credit card.

598
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 4: Not without his mom co signing on it.

599
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 2: So of course the first thing she does is go

600
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 2: out and buy a bunch of expensive shoes. And I

601
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 2: wanted to talk to you guys about addiction or like

602
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: shopping addictions before we talk about that.

603
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 3: Okay, because I think you've moved a little too quickly

604
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 3: for me at least. Okay from the Gabby's characters inconsistency

605
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 3: in the writing, Okay, you're right. Andrea, she had this job.

606
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 3: She was like, honestly really kind of stepping up as

607
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 3: a not materialistic person who wanted to take care of herself.

608
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 5: She had that line like don't call whatever you do tonight,

609
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 5: don't call me beautiful.

610
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. I felt like she had a lot of agency.

611
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 3: And I was disappointed in the on the fly writing

612
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 3: from this because I think it brought us right back

613
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: to this idea that we've seen Gaby's character struggle with

614
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 3: throughout the season, between Carlos and now between Carlos and John,

615
00:31:51,760 --> 00:32:00,719
Speaker 3: of women needing men for financial support and approval and money.

616
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 3: And we see this again when she goes out to

617
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 3: buy the shoes and then John's card gets declined and

618
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 3: she happens to be at the expense of lunch and

619
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,959
Speaker 3: she gets the man across the restaurant to come and

620
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 3: pay for her meal. Which I'd love to talk about that,

621
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 3: but I was curious, and I'm not trying to derail

622
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 3: your question mom about shopping addiction, but I was curious

623
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 3: what we think this storyline says about women and women

624
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 3: needing men and how does that sit today?

625
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 4: For me?

626
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 3: It doesn't sit well, although I also have been in

627
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 3: situations where I've been alone at nice restaurants and a

628
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 3: guy has sat down next to me at the bar

629
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 3: and we've chatted and he's ended up paying for my

630
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 3: whole meal, and I've not ever gone out with him

631
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 3: or anything. He hasn't even left his number in certain scenarios,

632
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 3: Did you.

633
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 1: Give him a fake name the way the Gabrielle gives No.

634
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: I didn't, but I have to say, actually, in the scenario,

635
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 3: I'm thinking of this man paying for my meal in

636
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 3: a very fancy restaurant in New York. This was many

637
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 3: years ago. He was actually so lovely and didn't leave

638
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 3: his number and didn't try to ask me out, like

639
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 3: he clearly just had a lot of money, and we

640
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 3: kind of bonded over talking about food, and I feel

641
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 3: like he was doing this gesture to be nice, and

642
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 3: it felt a little more like a pay it forward,

643
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 3: we're all on the earth in this limited amount of

644
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 3: time kind of storyline. But I definitely have primarily negative

645
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 3: feelings about presenting female characters this way.

646
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 2: What do you think, well that in general, that idea

647
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 2: came up for me in this episode. I didn't love

648
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: how Brie was behaving and her whole storyline. I didn't

649
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 2: love how Gabby was behaving and her whole storyline. I

650
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 2: did really like the Lynette missus McCluskey sort of like

651
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 2: growth and learning out of that story. But then I

652
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 2: found myself going, Okay, you know, back in two thousand

653
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 2: and five, the point of like entertainment and shows that

654
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: you would watch once a week when they came on

655
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: at nine o'clock on Sunday, night was what I would

656
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 2: call water cooler moments where you would go to the

657
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 2: office the next day, you would be on your break

658
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: and you'd get out of your cubicle and you'd go

659
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 2: into the coffee break room and you'd be standing around

660
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 2: and people would be like, what did you think of Gabby?

661
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 2: And what did you think of Brian? What did you

662
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 2: think of Susan? And it gave them something to bond

663
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 2: over and complain about, and it gave them a villain

664
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 2: to hate and a person to root for and a

665
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: person to not like. And I think over all that's

666
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: the point of drama or or comedic drama, that we're

667
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 2: not going to like all of this, you know, like

668
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 2: that that's like if we liked everybody, if we supported

669
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 2: like if Gabby was the like independent woman who was like,

670
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 2: fuck you, I'll go get my own money and whatever,

671
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 2: that we might want that from up. But then what

672
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 2: would we be talking about at the water cooler.

673
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was gonna I was gonna say something similar,

674
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 5: which is that we might not like it as three

675
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 5: women sitting here as Terry, Andrea and Emerson, but as

676
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 5: viewers of a television show, we kind of need it, right,

677
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 5: We need. We need flawed characters, We need characters. I

678
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 5: also am always team show women as flawed human beings, right,

679
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 5: because I think that there's not enough of that in

680
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 5: storytelling either.

681
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: And so in my own personal.

682
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 5: Life, do I love the idea of a woman not

683
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 5: stepping into her own agency and relying on a man

684
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 5: for financial support. No, but I my mind, the only

685
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 5: reason my spidy senses went up is because I feel

686
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 5: like we were getting somewhere with Gabrielle and then it

687
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,280
Speaker 5: feels like, out of nowhere, she backslit, and that bothers

688
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 5: me a little bit. But because you also say it

689
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 5: in that consistent because it doesn't feel consistent, and just

690
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 5: as an actor, you know you struggle with how do

691
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 5: you how do you reconcile those differences when you approach

692
00:35:59,360 --> 00:35:59,760
Speaker 5: your work.

693
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: But we also see it a bit in the Susan Sophie.

694
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 5: Storyline in this episode from the Sophie point of view, right,

695
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 5: which is that she is.

696
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: Clearly using wanting, craving male.

697
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 5: Attention to fill something up in her life that's missing,

698
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 5: and she's kind of trying to get Susan to do

699
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 5: that as well and more parenting the men she brings

700
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 5: home in the middle of the night, and I know,

701
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 5: what are these crazy antics? But yeah, so I think

702
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 5: that's another big theme of this episode.

703
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 3: Well, I agree, and I was I was curious what

704
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 3: you thought about this when when Sophie is bringing home

705
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 3: all of these men and Susan says to her mom,

706
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 3: you know you just went through a breakup. Can't you

707
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 3: at least pretend to mourn the relationship for a little while?

708
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 3: And I thought this was interesting, the idea of how people,

709
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,439
Speaker 3: because Susan is also going through her heartbreak with Mike,

710
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 3: how people navigate heartbreak or disappointment in a relationship Differently,

711
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 3: Sophie is clearly for better or worse, and we could

712
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 3: get into, you know, psychoanalyzing it, filling this new void

713
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 3: in her life with as much different male attention and

714
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 3: distraction as she possibly can, and Susan is walls as

715
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 3: high as ever, completely closed off from anything, just absolutely

716
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 3: wallowing and isolating.

717
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 4: And I think.

718
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:29,479
Speaker 3: Probably the most healthy approach is somewhere in between those

719
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 3: two responses.

720
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 4: But I was wondering, do either of you.

721
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 3: Feel like there is an appropriate way to mourn a

722
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 3: relationship or a breakup, or an appropriate timeline to quote

723
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 3: unquote get back out there or move on.

724
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that, you know a time where I

725
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 2: was broken up with, and I can't really say I

726
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 2: was broken up with because it wasn't really like, you know,

727
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 2: we had been seeing each other for a couple months,

728
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 2: but it wasn't wasn't like we were in some sort

729
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 2: of established relationship necessarily. But then there came the point

730
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 2: where he didn't want to see me anymore, and I

731
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 2: remember being crushed and really devastated. But in hindsight, I

732
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 2: would say that that rejection had more to do with

733
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: me looking at my belief that I was unlovable, you

734
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. Like, so, the pain that comes

735
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 2: up when your heart is broken is less about the

736
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 2: not having the person anymore and more about the reflection

737
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 2: of you by yourself that you now have to look at.

738
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 2: And so I would say that that reflection deserves its

739
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 2: time to look at it. And if you go fill

740
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 2: the reflection with a bunch of new people so that

741
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: you don't have to look at it anymore, I think

742
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 2: you're doing a disservice to yourself, which is why I'm

743
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 2: not a big fan of the hopping from one relationship

744
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 2: to the next, because I think each time a relationship ends,

745
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 2: within the pain of that is an opportunity for you

746
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: to look at yourself and go, what did I learn

747
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 2: about myself? What do I want for my life? I

748
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: know we said this a long time ago, and I

749
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: can't remember what the context was, but I'm a big

750
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: believer in like, we spend too much time going why

751
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 2: didn't he want me? Instead of why did I want him? Yeah?

752
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 2: And I mean it's worth reminding people because we spend

753
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 2: a lot of time wanting to be liked and loved

754
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 2: by others because somehow we think that's going to fix

755
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 2: the part of us that doesn't like and love ourselves.

756
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 2: And I would say that Sophie is doing that. Sophie

757
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 2: is not looking at but what she's actually done with

758
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 2: her life, and so much so that she doesn't even

759
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 2: want to believe that so many years of her life

760
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 2: have actually gone by, because she's like rejects her own age, yeah,

761
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: and her own loss of youth. She's like pretending yeah.

762
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 3: I mean.

763
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 5: She has another line in this episode that I wrote

764
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 5: down where she says when she's trying to get Susan

765
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 5: to go out with her, she says, I'll say, I'm

766
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 5: forty two and you can be twenty eight and you know, so, Yeah,

767
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 5: I think you're right, And I think that's such a

768
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 5: great point. Growing up, I remember there was that Sex

769
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 5: and the City episode where they talked about I think

770
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,200
Speaker 5: Charlotte says that you're supposed to take half the amount

771
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 5: of time you were in the relationship to get over

772
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 5: the relationship.

773
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've heard that.

774
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think that I don't know where that originated.

775
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 5: For me, it came from that episode of Sex and

776
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 5: the City. But I've thought about that since, and I

777
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 5: think obviously that can be I think that pertains to

778
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 5: how long the relationship is, because if someone's in a

779
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 5: twenty year marriage, you're telling them that they're supposed to

780
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 5: be saddled for ten years before they can move on.

781
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 5: You know, that doesn't really work that that's what they

782
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 5: have to do.

783
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 4: That's no looking at anyone for ten years.

784
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, but I think there is no rule. I

785
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 2: think it can be brief, but I just think it

786
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 2: shouldn't be unconscious, Like I just think you shouldn't just

787
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 2: fill the fill the void or the pain with somebody

788
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,879
Speaker 2: new to just sort of like, you know, pain over it.

789
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 4: I agree.

790
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 3: I've definitely found myself in I think all sides of

791
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 3: this position before in breakups, you know, where you go

792
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 3: out with someone very shortly after a breakup, and then

793
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 3: you think, while you're even on the date itself, like, oh,

794
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 3: it's too soon to be doing this, like, I like,

795
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,720
Speaker 3: what do I want from this? I'm not I'm certainly

796
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 3: not ready to be looking for something serious again, and

797
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 3: so why am I even here?

798
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 4: Like?

799
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 3: Is it because I'm looking for unconsciously or consciously some

800
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 3: amount of validation and this is probably not actually giving

801
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 3: that to me. But but then I've also been in

802
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,280
Speaker 3: a scenario, you know, where you feel like a relationship

803
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 3: has been ending, maybe for a long time, and when

804
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 3: you finally actually end it, you've moved through consciously and

805
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 3: reflected on a lot of the issues of the relationship already,

806
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 3: and then maybe you are more open to meeting someone

807
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 3: or to getting into something else sooner.

808
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 5: The last relationship the idea and kind of what I

809
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 5: was hearing you say, Terry is it's like focus on

810
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 5: whether or not you're putting a band aid on your

811
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 5: heart or if you're actually healing.

812
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, beautifully, sure, I mean the last relationship I

813
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 2: was in, which was like six years ago. I really tried,

814
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 2: like one hundred percent tried, Like I packed all my

815
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: luggage and I moved to another country, and I was like,

816
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be both feet in and I'm gonna try

817
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 2: to do this. And when I realized it wasn't gonna

818
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 2: work out, I so quickly was able to get out

819
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 2: of it and not be broken hearted because I'd really tried. Yeah,

820
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 2: like I and and so I was like ready for

821
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 2: it to be done because I felt like, oh, I

822
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 2: went one hundred and fifty percent exploring this, and so

823
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: I actually didn't have any pain about ending it. You know,

824
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 2: But wait, can we just go back to the addiction.

825
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: Oh yes, therapy.

826
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 3: I just have to say I realized that the title

827
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 3: live Alone and like it comes from the Warren Baty

828
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 3: film Dick Tracy from nineteen ninety, which was composed by

829
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 3: Stephen Sondheim.

830
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: Well there you go.

831
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 2: So just so you know, we still have our we

832
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 2: still have the song time. It wasn't a Donna in

833
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 2: that movie. I think Madonna was in that movie really yeah,

834
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 2: and the Dick Tracy in fact, I think maybe they

835
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,439
Speaker 2: dated or something. Oh wow, Oh this is another deep dive.

836
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,240
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, okay, so retail therapy.

837
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 2: No retail therapy or I have a trick. I just

838
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 2: wanted to share because and if Gabby had known this trick,

839
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 2: she might not have had to like suffer through uh

840
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 2: lunch with the old guy so he would pay for

841
00:43:59,360 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 2: her lunch.

842
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 4: Don'tine to know the trick?

843
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: Well, my trick is that I do agree that shopping

844
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:11,919
Speaker 2: retail therapy can be some sort of quelling to your

845
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 2: stress or you know, lack of control or whatever.

846
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 4: Peple getting those dopamine heads.

847
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 2: Yes, But what I do where I find the dopamine

848
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 2: and it works, it's good enough for me, is that

849
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 2: I go on the computer and I go to like

850
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 2: let's say, I go to the real reel okay, and

851
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,439
Speaker 2: because a I feel good because it's used and it's

852
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 2: recycled and it's good stuff, and it doesn't bother me

853
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 2: that it's used anyway. So I'll go through and I

854
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 2: might spend an hour like scrolling, and I'll put that

855
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 2: in the cart, and then I put that in the cart,

856
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 2: and then I put that in the cart, and then

857
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 2: I just never buy the stuff in the cart, and

858
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: so something about it is enough. The dopamine of just

859
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 2: moving the stuff into the cart. There's like there's like

860
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 2: enough time that I feel like I bought it. But

861
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: then by the time I'm done, like, I'm like, I

862
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 2: don't have to actually buy that. So yeah, and then

863
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 2: I was then and then somehow I've got my fix.

864
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 2: I didn't waste any money, and I walk away and

865
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:12,319
Speaker 2: I feel better.

866
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: I think that I think that tip is a great

867
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: place to leave it.

868
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 3: Okay, I really think it is the only other thing

869
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 3: I'm going to add, just while we're on this piece

870
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 3: of earth, as two human beings trying to help each

871
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 3: other out once in a while or three, but voting,

872
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 3: I got it, as however, many human beings, as you

873
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 3: are in a room with on this piece of earth,

874
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 3: trying to help each other out. Reverend Sykes, who makes

875
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 3: the kind of atrocious comments at the dinner party with Brie,

876
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 3: is from the local Presbyterian Church, and the Presbyterian Church

877
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 3: of the United States of America in twenty fourteen voted

878
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 3: to allow same gender marriages, making it one of the

879
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,479
Speaker 3: largest Christian denominations in the world to openly accept same

880
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 3: sex unions.

881
00:45:57,920 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 4: And so I just think this.

882
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,439
Speaker 3: Is a a good example of how this episode aired

883
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 3: in two thousand and five, and nine years later, we

884
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 3: see progress happening. It's possible to make the world a

885
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 3: better place, and it's possible to not buy all the

886
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 3: things in your shopping cart.

887
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't title this one shopping carts and Healing hearts.

888
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: I don't know what we're doing.

889
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 2: You're so good, Okay, Well, I loved that episode. There

890
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 2: was a lot in that one. I feel like I

891
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: might have to listen to it myself, just for a

892
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 2: reminder of the takeaways that I'm gonna need because there's

893
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 2: probably more in the whole alone thing, and as always

894
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 2: as the resident alone Liver, I feel like I have

895
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 2: more to learn and more to say. So anyways, on

896
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 2: that note, come back next week because we are always

897
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 2: desperately to you.