1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always for 3 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: tuning in. You could be anywhere in the world you'd 4 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: like to be, but today you are here with us. 5 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: I'm Ben, call me Ishnel. Alright. You see what I'm 6 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: doing there, white whale, white rhino. Huh. Just know it's 7 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: making a connection there, doing my best. Um, how are 8 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: you doing, Ben, I'm doing pretty well. I'm doing pretty well. 9 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: I am excited for today's episode. No, speaking of rare animals, 10 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: we are joined as always with a very rare and 11 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: brilliant creature. Indeed, our superproducer, Casey Pegram He's like a 12 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 1: gilded bird that you know you just want to see 13 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: fly away, and he actually is going to fly in 14 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: a good way, spread his wings and he's going to 15 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: do that. About halfway through this session. He told us 16 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,119 Speaker 1: not to be concerned when he gets up and has 17 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: to scoot out to another engagement. He's very considerate of 18 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 1: any possible abandonment issues, you know. But no, you and 19 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: I have a special guest today. We're not alone in 20 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: this endeavor, or at least we won't be when Casey 21 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: abandons us. So we are joined with a very special guest, 22 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: a friend of ours, a friend of the show, and 23 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: hosts of our own travel podcast, Everywhere Ridiculous Historians. Please 24 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: welcome Daniel Scheffler. Hello. Well, let me just tell you 25 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: when Casey leaves, I am happy to tell you where 26 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: he's going. I'm not going to tell you now. I 27 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: will tell you when he leaves because I know exactly 28 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: where going and we maybe even don't, so this will 29 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: be a surprise for us all. I look forward to it. Daniel, 30 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: thank you for so much for joining us on the show. 31 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about Everywhere. Well, first I 32 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 1: have to tell you that you did tell your lovely 33 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: listeners that they could be anywhere, but really they should 34 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: be everywhere. Ha ha. Let see what I did there? Yes, hell, 35 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: absolutely right. So the show came from this place where 36 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: I was really frustrated with travel as an industry, promoting 37 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: it in ways of just being either luxurious or backpacking, 38 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: and I felt that there was no in between. I 39 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: also felt that they were just all these endless lists 40 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: of places to go eat here, five best bars in Barcelona, 41 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: ten best coffee shops in Melbourne, Like who cares? Google 42 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: can tell you that, like, you don't need a season Travelers, 43 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: someone who's dedicated their life to travel to give you that. 44 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: So I wanted to create a show that was about 45 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: inspiring people, not what to do, where to go, but 46 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: really how to be. So Channon and I my producer, 47 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: have gone on this incredible journey of finding destinations that 48 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: I have memories of incredible trips I've been on and 49 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 1: turning it into this kind of narrative story, followed with 50 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: interviews with people doing incredible things high and low. So 51 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: there's you know, famous people, but there's also the baggage 52 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: hand left from LaGuardia Airport on my show. So it's 53 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: come from that place of like travels for everybody. Whether 54 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: you're going to Disney Springs, Dishney Springs or whether you're 55 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: going to Denmark, it doesn't matter. What matters is how 56 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: you are when you're doing this. So that's really the 57 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: kind of essence of the show. And it's been like 58 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: the greatest story of my life creating this. And another 59 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: thing that you mentioned it being sort of about how 60 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,839 Speaker 1: to be and you have a set set of commandments 61 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: that you sort of espouse as sort of like the 62 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: I guess the mission statement of the show. Can you 63 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about those Well, you know, 64 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: I felt that God apparently needed ten and I just 65 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: didn't think that ten would be enough for me. So 66 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: I rallied up a bunch more. And the commandments are 67 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: a sort of way of holding the episode in a 68 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: kind of wink way. Absolutely, people think that a commandment 69 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: is necessarily religious, but in this context theyren't. It's tied 70 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 1: to like a little bit of ethics and a little 71 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: bit of moral imperentive. And I want people to take 72 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: it with a pinch of salt, of course, and you 73 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: throw it out with your luggage. And I use it 74 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: as a guideline because it helped enrich my travel life. 75 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: But they're not in the negative. All my commandments. On 76 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: the positive, thou shalt like, thou shalt shut the cup 77 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: and learn something, or thou shalt be generous, And that's 78 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: been so incredibly beautiful on all my journeys. When I 79 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: think about these things, sometimes they're funny, sometimes they hot wrenching, 80 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: but it's the way of traveling that opens your mind. 81 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: And this this is fascinating to me. I I personally 82 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: enjoy the commandment idea and I love that you hit 83 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: on the fact that they are all positive. They're all 84 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: positively framed. There, thou shalts and I think people see 85 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: travel as aspirational at times, but if we're being honest, 86 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: good travel is inspirational right right. And in your career 87 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: as a travel writer, you've been to over a hundred 88 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 1: and twenty countries. Is that correct? That is correct. I 89 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: have been doing this for a little while. I started 90 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: off um as a little boy. My parents are big travelers, 91 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 1: and I started as a little boy. My first trip 92 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: that I have a memory of, a clear memory of, 93 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: was to Mauritius and I went to an aquarium and 94 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: lost my favorite teddy ban. And the story in my 95 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 1: family and the kind of joke that started from that 96 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: was I have been searching for that Teddy bat ever since, 97 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: and a hundred and twenty seven countries later, I'm yet 98 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: to find it. But I have found everything else, including myself. 99 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: So that's what travel has done for me. I lost something, 100 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 1: and I lost I guess a part of myself and 101 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: in order to find myself poetic. This leads into something 102 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: that we wanted to speak with you about now. For 103 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: any listeners who are for some reason not yet aware 104 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: of everywhere. Uh. We we want to give people a 105 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: little bit of background. Daniel, you are you are from 106 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: South Africa? Is that correct? Well, I like to say 107 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: that I was born in Africa, bread in Europe and 108 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: now choose to live in America. So I was I 109 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 1: was born in South Africa. What's amazing about the name 110 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: South Africa is that some people don't know where that is. Um. 111 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: I think it's sort of obvious, but I love to 112 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: point it out. So South Africa. Um, it's in the 113 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: southern part of Africa. Continent Africa. Um, the southern part 114 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,239 Speaker 1: of this continent Africa. And um yeah, I was born 115 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: in in the capital, and I grew up um sort 116 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: of more in Europe and also South Africa, and I 117 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: now I now live in America. But I have a 118 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: tenderness for South Africa, as so many people who go. 119 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: It gets under your skin, whether you're killing animals like 120 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: Teddy Rosenfeld, or whether you're colonizing, or whether you're kind 121 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: of pondering about your your place there. It is a 122 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: very special, special place because it's the beginning of humanity. 123 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: It started there, whether it's Mrs Pless or the whatever 124 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: latest foot footsteps or bones they found. It all started there, 125 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: and I think that it's undeniable when you arrive there 126 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: and some people behave in this fascinating way, and I 127 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 1: guess this is where you find that history so in ridiculous, 128 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: is that some people arrive in Africa and all they 129 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: want to do is protected and build conservation around it 130 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: and hold it dear, because that's how they understand the 131 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: beginning of our life, a beginning of humanity. And then 132 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: there's the other side of people who go and all 133 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: they want to do is take it and own it 134 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: and control it. And it's fascinating. It's interesting because we're 135 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: talking about today is sort of somewhere a combination of 136 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: the two. Right, So, Teddy Roosevelt and it has made 137 00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: claim to famous far as we're concerned as a country. 138 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: Largely is that he was the twenty six president of 139 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: the United States. But he was also a well known 140 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: outdoorsman um and considered himself one of the great conservationists. 141 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: But the way he chose to exercise this conservation um 142 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: was a little interesting, and we're gonna get into that. 143 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 1: But he is also what the Teddy bear to to 144 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: go full soccer circle here, was named after right, That's 145 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: that's correct, Noel. Yes. Uh. Teddy Roosevelt has a complicated 146 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: relationship with animals. He's a fan of the safari. Uh. 147 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: Some of our listeners may not know that the Teddy 148 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: bear that you search for that set you off on 149 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: your journey, Daniel was likely invented in honor of President 150 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt. Back in nineteen o two, Theodore Roosevelt is 151 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: on a bear hunting trip, going back to what we said, 152 00:09:54,840 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: hunted animals in a place called Onward, Mississippi. And everybody 153 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: else in his group had success finding and hunting bears 154 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: except for our boy, Theo Roosevelt. So his assistance corner 155 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: a bear, a real bear, black bear, and they tie 156 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: it to a tree. And then they summoned Teddy Roosevelt 157 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: to the tree where the bears tied up, and they say, okay, 158 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: here you go, we found you a bear. Go ahead 159 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: and shoot it. And Roosevelt says, no way, that's unsporting, 160 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: that's not fair, that's not how nature is supposed to work. 161 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: I'm not going to shoot this bear. First of all, 162 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: assistance tied bear to tree. That is a buried the 163 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: lead there, My friend, these were some early assistance, and 164 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 1: a black bear, not a grizzly. Okay, so it was 165 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: a little baby bear, which is even less sporting, right, 166 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: come on, So Teddy was having none of it. So 167 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: here's what happens next. So the media of the day, uh, 168 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: loves this story. It spreads like wildfire throughout newspapers of notes. 169 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: They love the fact that he was he turned it down, 170 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: turned down the opportunity, right, it was seen as a 171 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: noble thing to do. And when people started circulating the story, 172 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: the President of the United States refuses to shoot this bear, 173 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: this is great pr right. There's a political cartoonist who 174 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: comes into play, a guy named Clifford Berryman. Clifford Berryman 175 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: reads an article in the paper about Teddy Roosevelt being 176 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: a class act, or at least not shooting cornered and 177 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: tied animals, and he makes a cartoon satirizing the President 178 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: refusing to shoot a bear. It's right, this is an 179 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: audio podcast, so you'll have to trust us. You'll have 180 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 1: to look it up, uh, And it's it's Teddy Roosevelt 181 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: in his out in the field hunting gear. And when 182 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: this cartoon publishes in the Washington Post on November sixteenth 183 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: of the same year, nineteen o two. It inspires a 184 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: guy named Morris mitched them two make a little bit 185 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: of coin off this. You see, Morris's wife, Rose made 186 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: off to animals. He owned a candy shop. She made 187 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: stuffed animals. Good combo, good, great combo, you know, piece 188 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: and carrots right there. And Morris says, you know what, Rose, 189 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: why don't you make a stuff bear, a toy bear, 190 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: and we'll dedicate it to Teddy Roosevelt and we'll call 191 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 1: it wait for it, can you guess? Yeah? I can, 192 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: but I want a Teddy Bear. So this piece of history. 193 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: What's interesting is this one little story ends up becoming this, 194 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: this fundamental piece of your origin story, Daniel. And it 195 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: also leads us to look more closely at Teddy Roosevelt himself, who, 196 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: as we said it was a complicated figure. You and 197 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: Nolan I were talking off air about this fascinating story 198 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: from the Smithsonian that you would sent us, You would 199 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: hip us to this called Teddy Roosevelt's epic hunt for 200 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 1: a white rhino. Isn't that insane? This man who's so 201 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: known for what he's done for conservation is also in 202 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 1: Africa hunting. I guess at the time those animals were 203 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: not as extinct or kind of needed to be protected 204 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: as much as they are now. But he he wrote 205 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: executive orders that he got into trouble for to protect 206 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: forests and wildlife across America. In fact, some of his 207 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: executive orders established a hundred and fifty million acres of 208 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: reserved forestry. He's a legend. I mean, I have been 209 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:39,079 Speaker 1: more interested in Roosevelt than before because I heard Elizabeth Warren, 210 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: my candidate, talk about how she loves him, that is 211 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: her favorite president. So I've been reading about him and 212 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: kind of getting into his thoughts about almost all things. 213 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: But what I do find fascinating about that piece about 214 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: the white rhino is he meant well, he didn't know 215 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: well in some weird way, And that really is the 216 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: African story. You know, China is is kind of moved 217 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: into into Africa and taking land and developing land, and 218 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: it's amazing what's happening. They're giving people opportunity, but at 219 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: the same time they they leave and they take all 220 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: this incredible um natural resources with them. So there's a 221 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: shield and a sould story. That's always been the African story. 222 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: And Teddy Roosevelt represents so much of that. Even today. 223 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: You know, when people complaining about hunting, um, there is 224 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: a certain amount of hunting that actually funds uh, you know, 225 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: the purchase of hunting licenses, That money actually goes into 226 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: wildlife conservation. So it's a very interesting dichotomy. And that's 227 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: very much the same with Africa even today. A lot 228 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: of the big game hunts go into providing, you know, 229 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: resources for some of these under served community. So it's 230 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: a little bit interesting to kind of have to reconcile 231 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: killing a noble creature with potentially saving them or their 232 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: habitat and on. UH. In Roosevelt's safari, the one involving 233 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: the white rhino, UH, they also were aiming for what 234 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: they saw as the greater good, right, the bigger picture. 235 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: They believe that they weren't out there just for fun, 236 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: just for giggles. They thought they were conducting a safari 237 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: for the purpose of science, which in many ways they 238 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: weirdly were. So Roosevelt actually, um, it was the last 239 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: year of his presidency. He was a lame duck president 240 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: in nineteen o nine, and he was really hot to 241 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: get out to Africa and do a safari. So he 242 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: floated this idea to a guy named Charles Doolittle Wolcott 243 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: love the name. It's a great, great name, who was 244 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: in charge of UM, the Smithsonian's Natural History museum. And 245 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: they didn't at the time have a particularly robust collection 246 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: of like taxidermied wildlife, which is very much a thing, 247 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: and it remains very much a thing today at you know, 248 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: the Field Museum in Chicago, for example. At the time 249 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: nine they were regularly sending out expeditions to these parts 250 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: of the world to kill and stuff these creatures and 251 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: and put them up in display. There's even um, I 252 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: I can't remember where I saw, but there is. Uh. 253 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: There are certain natural history museums that have like these 254 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: libraries almost that are catalogued carcasses of different birds that 255 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: are taxes, deermy and stuff. They're not put on display, 256 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: but you can open up a drawer and then there's 257 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: like this bird carcass in there, and their cattle catalog 258 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: like library books. It's very strange, but this is absolutely 259 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: a thing. And Teddy Roosevelt says, all right, Walcott, Um, 260 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: you guys are kind of like, you know, asleep at 261 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: the wheel here when it comes to getting an awesome 262 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: collection of these creatures that I personally believe are going 263 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: to be gone soon, which is like another weird dichotomist thing, 264 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: which we'll get into. He knew that they were gonna 265 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: be gone, yet he was still totally okay with contributing 266 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: to that by killing hundreds of them. Yeah, and Walcott says, cool, 267 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: because not only is this an amazing opportunity for him 268 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: to get some specimens, what a pr coup, right, I mean, 269 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: this is like literally the most famous type of person 270 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: that could provide these specimens to him, So they'll have 271 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: like an extra added value, right then? Yeah, yeah, exactly. 272 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: And so Theodore Roosevelt, we have some of the correspondents 273 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: that he wrote to Charles Doolittle Walcott, and just a 274 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: quick excerpt here, I think gives us the lay of 275 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: the land. Roosevelt says, as you know, I am not 276 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: in the least a game butcher. I do like a 277 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: certain amount of hunting, but my real and main interest 278 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: is the interest of a faunal naturalist, faunal f a 279 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: U in a l flora fauna. And then he says, 280 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: now it seems to me that this opens up the 281 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 1: best chance for the National museum to get a fine 282 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 1: collection not only of the big game beast, but of 283 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: the smaller animals and birds of Africa. And looking at 284 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: it dispassionately, it seems to me that the chance ought 285 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 1: not to be neglected. And then he goes on UH 286 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: and explains that he plans to publish a book and 287 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: then he will use the proceeds from the book to 288 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: pay for a safari that he and his son, Kermit Roosevelt. 289 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: This episode is full of amazing names that that he 290 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: and his son will take. They're going to take this 291 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: safari to Africa, to the African continent, and they are 292 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: going to attempt to capture as much big game again ostensibly, 293 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: the way he's phrasing it is not for some thrill 294 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: of a hunt, but is for the It's for the 295 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: education of the masses, right, the greater good. And this 296 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: this Daniel, I would I would defer to you. You 297 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: know here here in the States, when kids grow up, UH, 298 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: in the US, you only hear about hunting in terms 299 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: of like hunting deer or something. Right, you don't really 300 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: in this country here about UH Safari's are these big 301 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: game expeditions. And I'm just curious when people who have 302 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: never been on a safari or even been to the 303 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: continent of Africa. When we see depictions of big game 304 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: hunts in fiction or safar as you know, in films 305 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: and stuff, is that in any way accurate? Is this 306 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,159 Speaker 1: the thing that still happens? Was it something that just 307 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: happened you know? Uh in days of your no um? 308 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: In fact, the Trump children often go to Africa to 309 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: hunt um animals, so it is still happening. In fact, 310 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: recently a lion trophy was approved for import into the US, 311 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: and these things are still happening because tourists operators somehow 312 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: managed to get around the rules. Um. They are of 313 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: course incredible countries like Botswana where it's outlawed and not allowed, 314 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 1: But it is happening. People like to kill. It's part 315 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: of our very humanity, is it not. We um We 316 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,400 Speaker 1: establish ourselves on on this planet in a way that 317 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: we have to kill to survive, So why would we 318 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: be changing? You know, we evolve, but perhaps we don't 319 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: fully evolve past these things. So I think there is 320 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: still a fun factor for some people, but it is 321 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: a real problem. I think that Africa hasn't dealt with 322 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 1: this particularly well because where there's money. Anything can be bought, 323 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 1: and even nature. And I recently interviewed the CEO of 324 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: Conservation International and their quest is to look at conservation 325 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: in new ways and to open up conversations. And next 326 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: week is Climate Week in New York. And I think 327 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 1: it's important that we do look at what's the real 328 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: important issue for all of us. So the question really 329 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: is is nature important to like? Is it truly important 330 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: to you? And I don't think we have a unanimous 331 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: thought process on that because to some people they're ready 332 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: to go to live on mars elon Musk is fixing 333 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: that for us? And for other people this is the 334 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: one life I get. I could live it up. Who cares? 335 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: So I wonder if nature is truly important to you? 336 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: And as someone who's from Africa, I grew up looking 337 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: at this stuff more critically because I was aware of 338 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: it because my parents are big safari goes. As if 339 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: my husband would tell you that they on safari all 340 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: the time. If you need to speak to Daniel's parents, 341 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,239 Speaker 1: they'll be on safari. Um and part of that is 342 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: is conservation awareness. My parents really take that very seriously 343 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 1: and so do I and UM. I think places like 344 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: sing Geta in Tanzania, and in Zimbabwe and South Africa 345 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: and now in Rwanda are really really taking the safari 346 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: experience to the next level. So not only is it 347 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: not the proverbial out of Africa Meryl Streep experience, it 348 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: is also one where by going you are contributing to 349 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: having nine hundred full time anti poaches on the reserve. Um. 350 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: If you buy a villa in at sin Guita in Tanzania, 351 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: you are obligated to pay a monthly or yearly fee 352 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: in order to contribute to anti poaching. And I think 353 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: that that's spectacular and more places should be doing this. 354 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: I've also been on safari in India and it's a 355 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: very different thing. They have much more respect for the animals. Um. 356 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: I went to parts of Rajasthan where the leopard live 357 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: open and free next to villagers and they've never had 358 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: any issues. The leopard just walks right up to and 359 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: would never do anything because people would never kill them 360 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: and they would never kill people. And that's very different. 361 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: In Africa. There's a relationship. Has It's gone back so 362 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: much to hunter gatherer and then to Teddy Rosenfelt days 363 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: and now too the Trump Junior days of hunting. M hmm. 364 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: And when when we go back and look at Roosevelt's 365 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: Roosevelt's hunting in Africa, Roosevelt and Kermit, I'm just looking 366 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: for excuses to say Kermit, when thank you? When uh, 367 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: when we look at this, we see that, regardless of 368 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: his stated aims, Roosevelt did kill a lot of animals. Yeah, exactly. 369 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: I mean it goes back to um we talked about 370 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: with Jack and Miles from The Daily Zeitgeist on an 371 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: episode we did about weird flexes, weird historical flexes, the 372 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: fact that Charles Darwin again known in history, thought of 373 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: as one of the great naturalists, not really so much conservations, 374 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: but even I find those terms interchangeable, at least in 375 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: my mind that whether that may or may not be 376 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: the case. Charles Darwin would like eat every animal that 377 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 1: he catalogs, every but he ate a lot of like 378 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: endangered like turtles and stuff like. He definitely probably single 379 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: handedly contributed to some of the species that he was 380 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: studying becoming endangered, sure, because he ate so many of them. 381 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: So that's the thing here with Teddy right he um 382 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 1: you know has a ball on the safari Um. He 383 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: again like he's so preoccupied with this at the end 384 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: of his presidency that he admittedly can't focus on anything 385 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: other than this. He's you know, gathering weapons and ammunition 386 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: and having maps charted and all this and all he 387 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: needs from Walcott. The big ask that he's he's he's 388 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: expecting from Walcott is to supply uh, some personnel who 389 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: can actually stuff these creatures on demand in the field 390 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: in the field field taxidermist and naturalists who because he 391 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 1: his job isn't catalog I mean maybe catalogs to the 392 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: species that he kills for his personal little journal entry 393 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: which will read you in a little bit. It's it's fascinating, 394 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: but he has to have professionals from the from the 395 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,959 Speaker 1: museum to actually do the real scientific work. And he 396 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: agrees because Walcott knows this is a deal and a 397 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 1: half and it's not really costing him much because I 398 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: believe Teddy Roosevelt financed his own trip with his own money. 399 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: And then because again he knew he was going to 400 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: get paid back when he published this book, which he did. Um. 401 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: So the Safari is a huge success um in that 402 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: he killed somewhere in the neighborhood of let's see five 403 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: hundred and twelve animals between between he and his son. 404 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: And there is actually a fantastic article on vox Um 405 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 1: that that has a page out of the book that 406 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: he published in nineteen ten, one year later called African 407 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,719 Speaker 1: Game Trails, An account of the African Wonderings of an 408 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: American Hunter Naturalist that he lets. So he coined his 409 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: own like little category. Sure, he's not a hunter gatherer, 410 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: he's a hunter naturalist. Um. And it's as the headline is, 411 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: list of game shot with the rifle during the trip. 412 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: So we've got and it's like this, It literally looks 413 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: like a scorecard and like darts or something. And it's 414 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: divided by him and his son. We've got tr on 415 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: the left and k are our boy Kermy on the right. 416 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: And uh, let's just go through him together for a minute. 417 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: We got lion, leopard, cheetah, hyena, elephants, square mouth rhinoceros, 418 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: hook lip rhinoceros. There's the common zebra, the big zebra 419 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: of course, giraffe, the bongo, the bush buck. I'm sorry, 420 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: the bongo, yes, the bongo. Uh. Teddy himself didn't shoot any, 421 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: but his son Kermit killed two. He got two of them. 422 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: The giant eland. I don't know a lot of these animals. Then, yeah, 423 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: I've got to say, you know, not being a funnel 424 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: naturalist by profession myself, there are a couple of deep 425 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: cuts on here that are new to me. And you know, 426 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: it's so tough to try to ascribe motive or personal 427 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,360 Speaker 1: motivation to historical figures. You know, we we know only 428 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: what was said about them at the time, only what 429 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: research proofs, and only what they wrote write their own records. 430 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 1: So it's this is just me speaking personally. It's tough 431 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: to your point, Daniel, about the the idea of killing 432 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: for fund that human impulse. It's tough for me to 433 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: figure out how much of his scientific interest was true 434 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: and valid versus how much of it was sort of 435 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: a facade to rationalize this vast amount of death. I mean, 436 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: his rhetoric is pretty um consistent. Yeah, I mean he 437 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: says here quoted in this mental pliss article um from 438 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: the book. Kermit and I kept about a dozen trophies 439 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: for ourselves. Otherwise we shot nothing that was not used 440 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: either as a museum specimen or for meat. As it's 441 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: an interesting line here. The mere size of the bag 442 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: indicates little as to a man's prowess as a hunter, 443 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: and almost nothing as to the interest or value of 444 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: his achievement. So I mean, he thought pretty highly of 445 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 1: himself and the uh, you know, the value of this 446 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: achievement and this this, this expedition, you know. And it 447 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: is true that the Smithsonian at the time didn't have 448 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: the most impressive collection of fauna from the African continent. 449 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: I believe they sent someone to explore Kilimanjaro in eight 450 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: and they sent somebody else, uh to the eastern Congo. 451 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: But those expeditions produced relatively few specimens in comparison to 452 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: other museums. At this point, uh, Walcott of course is 453 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: on board. But we have to remember, Um, there's a 454 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: point you raised earlier, Daniel, regarding resource extraction, the idea 455 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: of taking from a place. No one had the conversation 456 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: at the Smithsonian in the halls of the Roosevelt residents. 457 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: No one said, hey, should we be taking these animals? Like, 458 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,479 Speaker 1: should we be taking these animals, stuffing their carcasses and 459 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: transporting them across an ocean? No nobody said, what does 460 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: that mean for the people who live there? You know? 461 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: And that seems like a problem that continues today. I 462 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,960 Speaker 1: think it's a big problem, and I don't really know 463 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: the exact solution. I do feel like there are some 464 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: progressive countries around the world, like Costa Rica that are 465 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: really focused on eco tourism and bringing awareness to this, 466 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: and obviously places like Bhotan, but the small countries, and 467 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: I think a lot of this is much easier because 468 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: of the size um. I think these these things are 469 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: more challenging in places like China and Russia and of 470 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 1: course America, and there's not a lot of value put 471 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: on this in this moment in our current political life 472 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: in the world. Other things are kind of more important. 473 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: So I wondered, like what could be done. I mean, 474 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: I think legislation is important, but I think it's the 475 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: private sector. It's it's big tech that has to solve this. 476 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: And whether it's Elon Musko or his brother, Kimball Musco, 477 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: or perhaps Conservation International, but those are the kind of 478 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: voices that that's really necessary because governments will come and 479 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 1: change and evolve, and they're so slow moving. But and 480 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, the UN is caught up in a lot 481 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 1: of bureaucracy. But I think that these big tech companies 482 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: could actually make a difference. So maybe it's a call 483 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: to them to be like, let's start our own tech app. 484 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: Let's call it Teddy Free Free Teddy, and we started 485 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: conservation awareness campaign. What do you think. I'm all for it. 486 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: I'm on board. Yeah, I like the idea of free 487 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: Teddy do we? I guess then do we get to 488 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: count as co founders? We just want to be in 489 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: the pictures? Man, right, I think you are. You just 490 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: co founded it with me. So this is great. There's 491 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: there's one one last thing that we say. No, of course, 492 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt went on to have many adventures, and somewhere 493 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: in this wide world of ours, Daniel Scheffler's Teddy Bear 494 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: is having adventures all its own, and we hope that 495 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: one day you two will finally be reunited. It makes 496 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: me think of that part in h Amalie where the 497 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: gnome you know, goes everywhere and takes pictures and she 498 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: sends the pictures people. Maybe one day you'll start getting 499 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: anonymous pictures in the mail from your teddy bear having 500 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: adventures that would be creepy and heartwarming at the same time. Somehow, Oh, 501 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: I love that. That's so beautiful. I really hope that 502 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: that Teddy is still living on somewhere beautiful because I 503 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: have I have a very very dear friend, and she 504 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: has a teddy bear called Little, and he travels with 505 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:18,719 Speaker 1: her everywhere. He's always in her bag. And Little has 506 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: a friend, her wife's teddy bear called Moyenne. In fact, 507 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: at the moment they are fighting. But I always spend 508 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: a lot of time. There's hundreds of photos with me 509 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: and Little and Moyenne all over the world. So I 510 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: guess I'm living I'm vicariously living my life with my 511 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: old Teddy through the new Teddy Bears. Because history may 512 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: not repeat, but it certainly rhymes sure does. Right. Well, 513 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: I have been thinking, you know, now I'm on a 514 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt kick. And this week at the met in 515 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: New York, they commissioned these incredible, incredible statues by a 516 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: Kenyan American artist, UM. And she has done these female 517 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: sculptures and she's put them in the Metropolitan Museum of 518 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: Arts el Codes. They are four of them, and they 519 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: are these sort of powerful woman African queens looking out 520 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: onto the world. They called the New Ones will Free 521 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: Us and um it's part of the METS sort of 522 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: shift in their commissioning and um the natural history museums 523 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 1: shift in how they re examining statues, in particular the 524 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt statue, which some people think should be torn 525 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: down because some people have called Roosevelt racist towards African 526 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: Americans and Native Americans. And it's a fascinating thing because 527 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,719 Speaker 1: I think it was a different time, right, Like do 528 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: we think of racism in the same way then as 529 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: we do now? Probably not. And he was He was 530 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: a very complicated figure, of course. You know, one thing 531 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: we learned about history is that people are very rarely 532 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 1: one heroic or on villainous. Roosevelt himself has some inherent contradictions. 533 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: We know because he wrote these contradictory statements. He said 534 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: the game butchery is as objectionable as any other form 535 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: of wanton, cruelty or barbarity. But then he also later 536 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: wrote that creeping after game made our veins thrill, and 537 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: he praises elephant poachers, saying a few careers are more 538 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: adventurous or more fraught with peril if you are keeping 539 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:42,919 Speaker 1: score of the animals at home. Roosevelt killed eight elephants. Yeah, 540 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: and we sort of teased at the top of the 541 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 1: show the idea of a white whale kind of situation, 542 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: like a moby dick, like he was in the search 543 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: of this creature that he had yet to bag, and 544 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: that was the white rhinoceros, which is a very specific 545 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: species that's much different from the very common black rhino 546 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: that he had been collecting for some time. Um. And 547 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 1: it's it's not even the color that has to do 548 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: with their difference. They're actually in different generas um. So 549 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: they are very wildly different. The white rhino comes from 550 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: the Afrikaans word wide w y d, which means literally wide, 551 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: So the name white doesn't even refer to it's sort 552 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,800 Speaker 1: of a bastardization English bastardization of that Afrikaans word. And 553 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 1: he did ultimately get several of these and they are 554 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: currently on display in the Natural History Museum the Smithsonian 555 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,399 Speaker 1: Institute in washing in d C. And they are called 556 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: the Roosevelt Rhinos. Well, do you know how to tell 557 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: the difference between a black rhino and a white rhino? No? 558 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,359 Speaker 1: How So, what's funny is the major difference is the 559 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: shape of their mouths. Black rhinos developed a pointy lip 560 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: which they used to pick up fruit and select leaves 561 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: from twigs, and white rhinos have a flat, wide lip, 562 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: as you said, wide to graze on grass. So that's 563 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: how you tell the difference whilst you're on safari. Then 564 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: you don't kill them, you just look at their lips exactly. 565 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: That sounds like a plan, especially considering now we have 566 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: to wonder what would have happened if Roosevelt had not 567 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: bagged that those Roosevelt rhinos. Today, the northern white rhino 568 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: is extinct in the wild, and I think there are 569 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: only a hand few left alive, with two or three now. 570 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: So we end today's story with a look at Teddy Roosevelt. 571 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: That may be surprising to some of our fellow listeners. 572 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,440 Speaker 1: He would call it an adventure. This expedition of his 573 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: is something that many people don't learn about today, and 574 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 1: that's that's a shame. Daniel. We want to thank you 575 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 1: so much for joining us today and for anyone who 576 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 1: yearns to to travel a little bit further from their 577 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: comfort zone geographically speaking, for people who want to join 578 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,800 Speaker 1: you on your adventures as you literally travel everywhere. Where 579 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: can they find the podcast, where can they learn more 580 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: about you? Well, it's definitely on the I Heart Radio app, 581 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,879 Speaker 1: but also anyway you get into a podcast, um where 582 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: at Everywhere podcast on Instagram. But I'm not a social 583 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: media guy much so I'm more like, listen to the show. 584 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: Take it. Don't see it as head knowledge, see it 585 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: as hot knowledge, and I'll see you everywhere. Love it. 586 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Daniel. If you want to find 587 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: us on the social media's, you can find us at 588 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History on Instagram. If you want to join our 589 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: community on Facebook, where are the Ridiculous Historians where you 590 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,720 Speaker 1: can connect up with your fellow listeners and exchange memes 591 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: and conversation. And Ben and I even creep in there 592 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 1: from time to time and get in on the fun. 593 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: If you'd like to follow us individually, I am at 594 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: how Now Noel Brown on Instagram. You can see me 595 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 1: get kicked into and kicked out of various countries, locales 596 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: and locations on Instagram where i am at Ben Bully 597 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: in a burst of creativity. I'm at Ben Bully hsw 598 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: on Twitter. Thanks as always, who are super producer Casey Pegram, who, 599 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: by the way, stayed the whole time made it. I 600 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: don't think that was for us. I think he was 601 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: staying for you. Daniel, he just didn't want you to 602 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: know where he was going because I was going to 603 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 1: reveal I should still do it, well, you should still 604 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:29,480 Speaker 1: tell you I feel free. Yeah, I want to hear this. 605 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: He's going to France. He's always going to always popping 606 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,439 Speaker 1: off to France, and and alas he's usually on Mike 607 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: on the show today, but we're having are you on 608 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: Mike on the show today? I'm on I'm on the 609 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,720 Speaker 1: weird Mike, so probably sounds might that might sound funky. 610 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: We'll see. Uh, he may or may actually be on 611 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 1: the show because we've got some Mike issues in this 612 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 1: new studio. But La Bush will indeed return huge Thanks 613 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: to Casey Pegram for sticking around big Thanks to you 614 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: Daniel for being on the show with us. Thanks to 615 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: thank you so much, You're so welcome. Thanks to Alex 616 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: Williams who composed our theme. Thanks to research associate Gabe Losier, 617 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: and thanks to research associate Ryan Bearish. Thanks to the 618 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: quiz ster for not dropping in at the end of 619 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,319 Speaker 1: this episode when he doesn't drop and thanks to thanks 620 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 1: of course to Christopher has Yodas. Thanks you know, thanks 621 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: with some caveats and asterix to Theodore Roosevelt and uh, 622 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 1: hey you no, thanks to you man. I like your 623 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,359 Speaker 1: shirt today. He appreciate it, but like your shirt too 624 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: and the cut of your jim. We'll see you next time, folks. 625 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I 626 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 627 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.