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Speaker 1: On the dol Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the bec del Cast. So, Kitlyn,

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Speaker 1: we're basically podcast sisters, right, Oh yeah, of course. Okay, So, uh,

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Speaker 1: I can tell you anything, right, Yeah, that's what podcast

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Speaker 1: sisters are to each other. Okay, so I have to

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Speaker 1: tell you that the other night when you give me

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Speaker 1: that Brazilian I did eat your finger? Are we still cool?

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Speaker 1: I do remember my finger getting cut off. I know

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Speaker 1: you like came to and you're like issiating my finger,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, you're dreaming, but I did do it,

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Speaker 1: and I just kind of wanted to like check into

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Speaker 1: your people are feeling about that. I'm glad you felt

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Speaker 1: comfortable enough divulging that to me. Sisters, right, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course. Now is my turn to tell you that

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Speaker 1: I didn't eat your finger, but I ate the finger

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Speaker 1: and the other body parts of a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: You know what, I actually forgive you because that makes

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Speaker 1: me feel better about what I did, which is not

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Speaker 1: comparatively as I think we're good. Our mom probably did it.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming it's somewhere in the bloodline. Like I'm not

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Speaker 1: even worried about it. I love you, Love you too,

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Speaker 1: Jamie Enjoyed Jail. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast, Jamie Lawfus.

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Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Durante and this is our show

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Speaker 1: in which we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens.

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Speaker 1: Using the Bechtel test simply is a jumping off point,

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Speaker 1: that being, of course, a media metric created by queer

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Speaker 1: cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test, that requires,

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Speaker 1: for our purposes, two people of any marginalized gender with

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Speaker 1: names have to speak to each other about something other

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Speaker 1: than a man. Ideally that conversation is meaningful to the

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Speaker 1: narrative right, which you would think would be hard to do.

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Speaker 1: For many movies, it is hard to do, but guess what, Baby,

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Speaker 1: Today we're covering a movie where it is not hard

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Speaker 1: to do, because there is so much to talk about

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Speaker 1: in this movie between characters who are not men, and

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Speaker 1: they're doing all manner of fucked up, funked up stuff.

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Speaker 1: I am so excited to be where first of all,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to just give us kind of a little

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Speaker 1: ribbon and say. The movie today is from Frost. It

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Speaker 1: is a Lesma to movie. So I felt like a

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Speaker 1: genius watching this movie because we are socially conditioned to

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Speaker 1: think that French equals sophisticated. I felt very chic today

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Speaker 1: as I was preparing for this episode, and I could

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Speaker 1: not be more excited to talk about the movie. It

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Speaker 1: is tens Raw, directed by Julia Ducorno, and we have

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Speaker 1: an incredible returning guest who brought this movie to us,

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Speaker 1: and I could not be more grateful. Yes, she is

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Speaker 1: a host of Kicking and Screaming podcast. She will soon

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Speaker 1: be on Behind the Monsters on Shutter and do you

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Speaker 1: remember her from our episodes on Maide in Manhattan and

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Speaker 1: Atomic Blonde. It's Vanessa Guerrero. Yeah, wellcome back, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for freaking us this movie. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: watching this movie. Because pitching to people a movie that

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Speaker 1: is like minutes of Cannibalism, is it the easiest thing

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Speaker 1: to do in the world. And the fact that we're

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Speaker 1: all this hype to talk about it, I am thrilled,

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Speaker 1: so excited. I also would argue that when a woman

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Speaker 1: eats another woman's finger, that does pass the Bechdel test.

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Speaker 1: That's true. I mean that is an intimate communication of

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Speaker 1: the mind and body. I mean it's kind of transcends

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Speaker 1: the Bechtel cast in many ways. Yeah, that's true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So let's talk. Let's get get into it. It's a

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty recent movie, came out five years ago. Vanessa.

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Speaker 1: What is your connection to this movie? How did it

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Speaker 1: come into your life? Um? So the way, I have

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Speaker 1: a lot of fondness for this movie because it also

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Speaker 1: kind of started with like my relationship and my husband

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Speaker 1: who I'm married to now. So it's one of like

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Speaker 1: the weirder First Few Days movies. But basically when we

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Speaker 1: had met, I was working on an article about sex

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Speaker 1: and horror and how for some people kind of an

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Speaker 1: entryway into like safely figuring out for themselves like something

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Speaker 1: off kilter that they might be into. And at the

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Speaker 1: time we met as friends, and he came over and

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Speaker 1: recommended a movie called um Southbound, and it's an anthology series,

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Speaker 1: but one of it includes like a medical horror moment

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Speaker 1: um and it has a lot of like specifically, it's

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Speaker 1: like a lot of like sound and sensation. And I

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Speaker 1: proceeded to get too breathy on a couch next to

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Speaker 1: a man that I just brought into my house for

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Speaker 1: the first time that we were definitely not dating, like

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Speaker 1: embarrassingly breathy about it, literally blushing talking about it now,

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Speaker 1: and uh, he was super chill about it. It was

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Speaker 1: just like, that's weird. I just learned something that I

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Speaker 1: like right there. And immediately he was like, have you

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Speaker 1: seen the movie Raw, because he's basically like knocking on

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Speaker 1: people's doors, being like, this is my Lord and xavior

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Speaker 1: Julia Dick right now, and he's like, this is so

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Speaker 1: like perfect for the piece that you're working on. And

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Speaker 1: so he'd been waiting for her to watch it with me,

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Speaker 1: and we finally watched it together, and then the entire

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Speaker 1: time I kept looking at him and I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is the closest thing that has ever felt both

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Speaker 1: terrifying and right to like my experiences with sexual awakening,

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Speaker 1: especially like growing up in a very repressed household in

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Speaker 1: school system, so like this became so valuable. Like the

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Speaker 1: last time I felt like this watching a movie was

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Speaker 1: American Psycho, when I was like, Oh, this is what

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Speaker 1: it looks like when a woman does something terrifying. This

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Speaker 1: is what it looks like when a woman like examines

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Speaker 1: something like this and like this where the intimacies changed

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Speaker 1: based on who's behind the camera. The last time I

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Speaker 1: felt that way was like seeing Mary har And do something.

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Speaker 1: And now I'm just like all about whatever Julia Dickerno does.

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Speaker 1: She could she could just do like a weird TikTok accidentally,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like perfect art cinema. Yeah, we were talking

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Speaker 1: about the new movie of hers that is either already

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Speaker 1: has come out depending on when this episode drops or

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Speaker 1: is about to come out. It's like the releases like

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Speaker 1: right around this time. Uh, we're not sure of the pronunciation.

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Speaker 1: It could be. We kept saying type tannic pane. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're not exactly sure, but it is her new movie

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Speaker 1: and it looks pretty cool. It really does. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this this movie is I just I'm so thrilled about it.

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Speaker 1: I had never I had heard of this movie. I

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Speaker 1: had heard of Julia Ducornet, and it was just like

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Speaker 1: not something that I and this is I feel like,

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Speaker 1: especially in the past year or so, this has been

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Speaker 1: like changing pretty rapidly. But I never thought of myself

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Speaker 1: as a horror fan or someone who is naturally drawn

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Speaker 1: to horror. But seeing a movie like this. It is

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Speaker 1: absolutely a horror movie, but it's also like a coming

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Speaker 1: of age movie, which is very much something that give

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Speaker 1: almost any coming of age movie a fair shot. And

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Speaker 1: I was pleasantly taken off guard by how much I

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Speaker 1: loved this movie from almost every alex. I'm just I'm

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Speaker 1: so excited to talk about it. I'm so glad that

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Speaker 1: it exists, and I'm so glad that directors like Julia

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Speaker 1: Ducarno are working at such a high level. I wish

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Speaker 1: that like this had I was happy that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this movie is pretty accessible, like you can watch it

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Speaker 1: for free a number of places to be I believe

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Speaker 1: is one of the ones. Yeah, yeah, I was. I

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Speaker 1: for one was a to be head for this. I

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Speaker 1: watched five tied commercials in a row and then continue

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Speaker 1: to watch raw whatever by any means, but I hope

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Speaker 1: that this, as time goes on, becomes like a horror

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Speaker 1: classic that is like not out of left field to

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Speaker 1: say that you've seen because I just thought it was wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Thank you Vanessa for bringing it. I truly can't thank

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Speaker 1: you enough. It's so good. I also love that you

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Speaker 1: specifically brought like coming of age because horror is such

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Speaker 1: a perfect vehicle for that, Like you've seen it used

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Speaker 1: with both like um, I mean as literal as like

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Speaker 1: werewolf stuff where it's like suddenly I'm getting hair everywhere

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Speaker 1: and it's awkward to like more horrifying, visceral things. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like we have this collective amnesia about how

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Speaker 1: awful and gross and terrifying but also exhilarating puberty was,

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Speaker 1: and oftentimes when we like examine it, it's usually with

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Speaker 1: like a ukulele and like butterfly knesses, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: something that kind of takes away this like feral nature

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Speaker 1: that we all kind of adopt as we're learning all

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Speaker 1: of the weird things our bodies do and how we

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Speaker 1: want to interact with other people. And I feel like

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Speaker 1: there truly should be more horror coming of age things,

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Speaker 1: because I cannot tell you how many times I'd like

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Speaker 1: pull down my pants or look in the mirror and

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Speaker 1: be like what is as a teenager? And it's the

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Speaker 1: scariest thing I've ever seen. My life was a horror

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Speaker 1: movie once a month when I got my period, because

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Speaker 1: I've never been in more pain than every time I

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Speaker 1: get my period. Yeah, So I grew up. I didn't

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Speaker 1: get sex said in school, and so I thought I

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Speaker 1: was shipping myself for a while because it feels like

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Speaker 1: you do because your internal organs are just like flexing

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Speaker 1: and unflexing. If you pull down your pants and it's brown.

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Speaker 1: I just felt like it was a reasonable I'm like,

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Speaker 1: that's so bizarre because I don't remember shipping myself, but

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Speaker 1: I guess that that's just what's been happening. They don't

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Speaker 1: prepare us for clots, No, they don't at all prepare

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Speaker 1: you for blood clots or the fact that some days

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Speaker 1: you might just have a jellyfish in your panties. Like

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Speaker 1: they were like, it's just like a little bit of

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Speaker 1: blood every month, and we are all wholly unprepared for

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Speaker 1: the first time it gets nearly. And also it's like,

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Speaker 1: if you don't have someone on the ground to let

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Speaker 1: you know what's going on, all you see on TV

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Speaker 1: is it's blue. It's not even the color is done

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Speaker 1: weird blue stuff onto pads, and it's like, in what

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Speaker 1: world is this helpful? This kool aid jammer fell into

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Speaker 1: your panties? What do you do? Like cool? Not to

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Speaker 1: pull out the kool Aid jammer reference, but that was

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Speaker 1: at thirteen, I knew more about kool Aid Jammer than

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Speaker 1: I did about my own body. Um good grief. Um.

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Speaker 1: I had seen this movie before a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 1: I remember it. It has gotten kind of more and

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Speaker 1: more buzz since it came out, so I wanted to

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Speaker 1: say I saw it in like en ish. I was

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Speaker 1: surprised by how much I remember it, because usually if

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Speaker 1: I see a movie once and then a few years passed,

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Speaker 1: it's I might as well have never seen the movie

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Speaker 1: because I simply remember nothing. But as I was rewatching

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Speaker 1: it for this episode, I was like, oh, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I remember that, and I remember that I remember, was

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Speaker 1: like so much had made an impression. I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh cool, there's a lot of perspectives you don't see

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Speaker 1: enough of so that when you do see it, it's

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Speaker 1: just in your brain forever. Yeah, it really like leaves

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Speaker 1: a lasting impression. So yeah, I was excited to rewatch

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Speaker 1: it for this and yeah, we've got a lot to

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Speaker 1: talk about. By that same token, though, I Jamie, we

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Speaker 1: were talking about this where we're like, I like kind

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Speaker 1: of don't. I didn't write down any notes for this

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Speaker 1: because I'm just like, yeah, it was good. It was

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Speaker 1: handled well, end of note, and it really is. It's

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Speaker 1: like I feel like it's rare to find a movie

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Speaker 1: that so like sucks you in. Yeah. That I found

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Speaker 1: it hard to like pause to take note because I

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Speaker 1: was like, I don't really want I really want to.

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Speaker 1: I'm having too much fun. It's very fluid. There aren't

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Speaker 1: really any moments that like slow down or like maybe

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Speaker 1: that the pacing is like, oh here, I can like

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Speaker 1: look at my phone for a second. Because I think

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Speaker 1: this is just like another benefit of having a woman

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Speaker 1: behind the camera. The main character has always looked at

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Speaker 1: with like curiosity instead of like judgment or like what

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Speaker 1: is this small delicate creature? Uh, to where it feels

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Speaker 1: like a very intense nature documentary about a person. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I felt like there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of camera choices that were so I mean, we're so

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Speaker 1: like every time you see Justine, she's hunched over and

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Speaker 1: if she's like she looks like she's the subject of

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Speaker 1: a nature documentary. The entire movie. It's. Yeah, the first

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Speaker 1: time you see like Alexis in the intro and she

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Speaker 1: like runs into the street and you know, causes the

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Speaker 1: car accident. She sprints like a dog or an animal

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Speaker 1: that's like running into traffic. She's like on all fours

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Speaker 1: and it's so deliberate, Like it feels like the way

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Speaker 1: an animal hunts for something and you see her from

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Speaker 1: far away, and it does have that like far enough

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Speaker 1: removed thing to where by stripping all of these characters

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Speaker 1: of humanity and treating them like animals, it just makes

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Speaker 1: it feel all the more human it was. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: movie in particular just feels like you can just feel

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Speaker 1: that it is like women perceiving other women. Yes, like

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Speaker 1: in a way that it doesn't feel like it's bopping

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Speaker 1: you over the head with a mallet, but it just

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Speaker 1: like intuitively feels that way. Like if I saw this

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Speaker 1: movie knew nothing about it would be like this movie

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Speaker 1: had to have been made by someone who intuitively understood

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Speaker 1: Justine's experience and like where she would be coming from,

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Speaker 1: because I don't know, like you can just feel it.

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Speaker 1: I had that thought when I watched the peeing standing

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Speaker 1: up scene. Yeah, oh my gosh, because I knew never

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Speaker 1: in a million years would a dude ever include something

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Speaker 1: like that. And that's like a very specific kind of

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Speaker 1: camaraderie that would be considered gross that like men would

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Speaker 1: be like that's too gross, and they don't really understand

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Speaker 1: how down to be disgusting. We are like quote unquote disgusting,

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Speaker 1: but like I also like deeply like as somebody that

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Speaker 1: like has a vagina wanted to learn how to pee

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Speaker 1: standing up so bad when because I was like, it's cool,

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Speaker 1: like anyone of the penis can just like run off

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Speaker 1: and then like piss in the bushes and then come

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Speaker 1: back and keep playing. I want to pee standing up.

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Speaker 1: So like when I saw that scene, it felt so

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Speaker 1: close to like similar experiences of like other girls being

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Speaker 1: like you want to see what this does? That it

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Speaker 1: like I was like, I've never seen anything like this

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Speaker 1: that scene. What I really enjoyed that scene, and I

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Speaker 1: thought that the way that it was shot was perfect.

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Speaker 1: It's like I don't know, I mean, and for a

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Speaker 1: movie that is about cannibal ism, it feels bizarre to

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Speaker 1: be like, oh, you know, it didn't feel exploitatively shot

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Speaker 1: at all, but it really didn't like it was. It

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Speaker 1: felt like you got what you needed there, which is

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Speaker 1: the sisterhood at and also just like how many people

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Speaker 1: are you going to be that comfortable enough around to

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Speaker 1: be like, let's peace standing up even though it's going

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Speaker 1: to be messy. I don't know. I every time I

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Speaker 1: pee it sounds like a helicopter is landing and it's

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Speaker 1: like all over the place. But I certainly did try

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Speaker 1: at different points in my life. I never realized how

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Speaker 1: powerful my stream is until I pee outside, Like I'm

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Speaker 1: so used to hearing it in the bowl, and then

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Speaker 1: the first time it hits dirt, I'm like, I'm doing that.

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Speaker 1: If you're just like, wow, I'm so let's bring that

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Speaker 1: strength to other areas of my body and life. We're

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Speaker 1: going to get those muscles everywhere, because my god, that's forceful.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, this could knock someone out. But I

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Speaker 1: don't know who knows. Wow. Anyways, when we're talking about

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Speaker 1: that's so excited about talking about peeing outside forceful peas, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love a good forceful pe Uh. Let me let

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Speaker 1: me just not on the recap mp in take a

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Speaker 1: little bite out of the recap. Shall we look at her? Go? Um? So,

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Speaker 1: the movie starts on an open road where we see

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Speaker 1: a woman running into the road and seems to be

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Speaker 1: deliberately causing a car to crash into a tree, and

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Speaker 1: then we see her approach the crash, and then it

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Speaker 1: cuts to a young woman, Justine. She's dining with her parents.

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Speaker 1: We learned that they are all strict vegetarians. Then they

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Speaker 1: drop her off at her first day of veterinary school,

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Speaker 1: and the first night there, she and the other like

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Speaker 1: freshman students get hazed by the upperclassmen and they're brought

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Speaker 1: to this big party. There she meets her roommate Adrian.

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Speaker 1: Adrian Audrian, I don't know the French France there, I was.

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Speaker 1: I It made me laugh a little bit, and we

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Speaker 1: talked about we we recorded an episode earlier today about

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Speaker 1: Revenge of the Nerds, so there's been this like related

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Speaker 1: but deeply unrelated through line of hazing to what we've

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Speaker 1: been talking about all day. But I just thought it

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Speaker 1: was so like, not unbelievable, because it's like I certainly

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Speaker 1: haven't been to veterinary school, but I was like, wow,

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Speaker 1: is hazing that intense among vets? Fuck? Yeah, it seems intense.

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Speaker 1: Where I was just like, I don't know anything about

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Speaker 1: the world, so I'm just going to have to believe you.

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Speaker 1: I guess I know. I was looking for I literally

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Speaker 1: I was seeking out vet insight because I was just like,

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Speaker 1: is it that intense. They're like, are you Are you

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Speaker 1: all okay? Should I bring my cocker spaniel to the

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Speaker 1: likes of you if you're dumping blood on each other? Like,

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Speaker 1: we don't know? Yeah, hard to say, Yeah, I could

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Speaker 1: not speak from experience, believe it or not. Wait, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: are you not a betted yourself to me? I did

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Speaker 1: not go to a French veterinary school. This is the

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Speaker 1: foremost French veterinary feminist podcast. So that's interesting. I don't

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Speaker 1: have a master's degree in veterinary study then from France

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Speaker 1: University where you can only work on French horses and

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Speaker 1: French dogs. Yes, very very they're they're wearing hats. It's nice. Um, okay.

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Speaker 1: So Justine's older sister, Alex also goes to this school.

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Speaker 1: She's an upper classman or an upper class woman. I

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Speaker 1: did write that in my recap, by the way, in

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Speaker 1: case anyone was curious. That was brave of you to

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Speaker 1: say thank you. They catch up with each other if

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Speaker 1: we find out that their parents also went to this

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Speaker 1: vet school. They kind of don't totally see eye to

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Speaker 1: eye on things, but they're excited to see each other.

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Speaker 1: And then Justine starts classes the hazing continues throughout the week.

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Speaker 1: They all have to eat a raw rabbit kidney as

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Speaker 1: part of their hazing. Are the vets of the world

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Speaker 1: doing this like, it's not It didn't bump me at all.

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Speaker 1: I was. I'm just genuinely curious if there's hazing in

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Speaker 1: veterinary school. Vet's sound off in the comments. I didn't

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Speaker 1: go to college, so that's what I'm assuming all colleges

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Speaker 1: like I went to loser college, and so I don't

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Speaker 1: know anyway. So she's presented with having to eat this

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Speaker 1: raw rabbit kidney, and Justine is like, I can't eat that.

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Speaker 1: I'm a vegetarian. But her sister is like, no, just

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Speaker 1: eat it, be cool, So Justine does. Uh. Then she

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Speaker 1: seems to have a reaction to having eaten the rabbit kidney.

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Speaker 1: She develops a severe rash all over her body. She

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Speaker 1: goes to see a doctor about it, who tells her

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Speaker 1: it's probably food poisoning and that she should fast for

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Speaker 1: a day. But Justine's like, well, except I'm very hungry.

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Speaker 1: And then we see her steal a burger patty from

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Speaker 1: the dining hall and we're like, wait a minute, is

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Speaker 1: isn't she a vegetarian, what's going on? And then her

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Speaker 1: roommate Adrian takes Justine off campus to like eat her

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Speaker 1: first meat meal. On the way, they see the scene

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Speaker 1: of that car accident from the beginning of the movie.

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Speaker 1: They passed that, and then they get their food, and

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Speaker 1: justin gas station food representation, I feel like there's not

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Speaker 1: enough gas station food in movies for how prevalent it

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Speaker 1: is in the real world. I mean, as a frequenter

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Speaker 1: of both sheets and Wahwas in my days in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: Wow Mayra vastown over here at the Wahwa. I grew

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Speaker 1: up in mostly sheets territory, so I've been to many

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Speaker 1: more sheets than Wahwas. But Vanessa, what was your what

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Speaker 1: was your go to gas station food? Growing up? Man,

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Speaker 1: I didn't really experience like full on gas like actual

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Speaker 1: like meal meals that weren't chip bags until I was

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Speaker 1: like an adult in Los Angeles. But many of the

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Speaker 1: ones by my high school would do like literally open

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Speaker 1: any chip and you can just dump it under the

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Speaker 1: chili and cheese, and so those with hot cheetos and

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Speaker 1: pickled Hallo pengos and then a bunch of Chilian cheese,

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Speaker 1: and then I would just eat it with chop sticks,

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Speaker 1: and now I wonder why I have ulcers all the time. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure this is completely unrelated. No, that's completely unrelated.

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Speaker 1: It has to be. But it was like the popular

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Speaker 1: like get that and then walk home from school. And

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Speaker 1: then because we also like went to a private school,

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Speaker 1: we were like dying to eat garbage by the time

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Speaker 1: school got out. So then we were just like double

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Speaker 1: down on those. Hell yeah, Jamie, what's your go to

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Speaker 1: meal or experience? It's improved over time, but in uh,

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Speaker 1: at least in I don't even know if it's all

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Speaker 1: of New England, but there's Cumberland Farms is the gas

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Speaker 1: station of note and you go to Compies, you get

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Speaker 1: a slushy, you get they have really good hot dogs,

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Speaker 1: which is like part part of my early adoption to

384
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Speaker 1: hot dogs was Cumbies hot dogs. They actually kept them

385
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Speaker 1: sort of hot, which felt very chic and novel because

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Speaker 1: they did cost seventy nine cents. So I love Cumbies

387
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Speaker 1: food to this day. I was getting like a lot

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Speaker 1: of like they because I feel like the gas stations

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Speaker 1: in the last ten years have been trying to like

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Speaker 1: make their food at least appear more healthy. Because now

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Speaker 1: when I go to combies, when I visit home, they're like,

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Speaker 1: would you like a grilled chicken wrap? I was like,

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Speaker 1: there's no way, there's no way. But it's like hot

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Speaker 1: dog as like, I don't come here for the grilled

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Speaker 1: chicken wrap, but I appreciate a for effort. Anyways, anyway,

396
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Speaker 1: gas station hot dogs and same thing. So she we

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Speaker 1: see her hungrily eat a bunch of meat, and then

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Speaker 1: later back at her dorm, we see her eat some

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Speaker 1: raw chicken. We're like, Wow, something's really happening to Justine.

400
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Speaker 1: And then she coughs up a bunch of her own

401
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: hair that she chewed on, which was gross. Got that scene.

402
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 1: I loved the audio mixing on that scene had me

403
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 1: skin crawling the entire time. Yeah, there's a I got

404
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 1: really into this. Not into but I read a book

405
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Speaker 1: about It's. I guess it's a type of like ulcer

406
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: tumor like thing I'm not a doctor, called a teratoma

407
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 1: that can form inside of people. I read a memoir

408
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: of someone who had something like this that her body

409
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: just started acting ways that she didn't recognize, and it's

410
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: just this kind of like it sounds like a horror movie.

411
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: It is a combination of like hair and half grown

412
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Speaker 1: teeth and just like my aunt had one of those. Yes, yeah,

413
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 1: like and it's like it's filled the teeth. Yeah, it's

414
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: a hairball full of teeth that grows inside of people.

415
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Speaker 1: And it's like it is I don't know, it's very

416
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: it's very visually fast and he but it also was

417
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: like so under discussed that when it happens to someone,

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00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: they're like, this doesn't sound real, Like how was what? Yeah,

419
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: it reminded me of that Tara Toomas. If you want

420
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: to fun google rabbit hole, Wow is your Did it

421
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 1: work out okay for your aunt? And it got removed

422
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: and everything? Yeah, she got that one removed. And then

423
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: I was just like obsessed with Tara Toomas. I didn't

424
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 1: know that's what it, but like the idea of like

425
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: hair and stuff like that growing and like that's seen

426
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: especially yes nails. And then I had a hat a

427
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: pe teacher where she grew an extra road teeth in

428
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: her mouth. She said that that I can't remember. She

429
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: said that her doctor said it was like she had

430
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: like a pregnancy or something and like the extra hormones

431
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: went a little crazy before like she like lost the

432
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: baby without realizing that she did, because she wasn't even

433
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: trying to get pregnant, and so she just like had

434
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 1: a quick influx of hormones and then she just woke

435
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: up one day and found like three little teeth coming

436
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,719
Speaker 1: out of like the bottom of her mouth, like behind

437
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: her bottom jaw. And the second I heard that, I

438
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: like checked my mouth in the mirror every day and

439
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: I was just like, do I have teeth now? And

440
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: like do you never really think about how much body

441
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: horror happens just because of hormones? Right? Like It's just

442
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,879
Speaker 1: I love body horror so much and it's there couldn't

443
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: be more grounds for it to exist, Like it is

444
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: such a real thing. It's wow. Yeah, my birth control

445
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: makes my mouth bleed spontaneously. Oh, I love that. I

446
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: didn't know that it was a thing until one day

447
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: I just tasted copper and they're like, yeah, some people

448
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: protest their own. Birth control just makes their mouth, their

449
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: gums just start bleeding bleeding. My birth control made my

450
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: libido go away for like five years. That was that

451
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: was body horror. That is I've ever heard it. Bodies

452
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: are horrible and that is where rock comes in. Oh,

453
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: does it want to tell you that, right, And I'm

454
00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: just pulling a hairball like it's a shower in your throat. God. Yeah,

455
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: everyone listening, google Taratoma if you want to have some

456
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: wild dreams for the next two to three months. Pass hard,

457
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: pass for me. Um. Okay. So, then Justine hangs out

458
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 1: with her sister Alex. They bond a bit. This is

459
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: when we get I think the peeing standing up scene.

460
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: Alex also gives Justine a bikini wax, which goes wrong.

461
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: Scissors have to be involved, and then there's a mishap

462
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 1: with the scissors which leads to one of Alex's fingers

463
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: getting cut off. Alex passes out, and as Justine waits

464
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 1: for the paramedics to arrive, she starts to lick the

465
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 1: blood off of the severed finger and then whips it daisy.

466
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: She eats the finger. Also, the music that's happening in

467
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: this scene is mesmerizing. Yeah. Yeah, the score for this

468
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 1: movie is so good. Yeah. There's an actual sex scene later,

469
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: and it's not played the same like it was. It

470
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: was weirdly sensual the way she like shot the eating

471
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: of the finger more than like actual sex scenes later

472
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: to where it was like This is the awakening moment.

473
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: This is the moment like in most movies where a

474
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: girl was like I feel tingles, and now it's this,

475
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 1: except she's eating a finger. That feeling when you eat

476
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,880
Speaker 1: a finger for the first time. You know who can

477
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: relate that? Yeah, that whole scene, The way that that

478
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: scene is executed on every level was like in the

479
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: hands of someone less competent would have been So I mean,

480
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: I guess it still is can't be in a way,

481
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: but it doesn't feel like you're so like you know

482
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: that she's probably going to eat the finger, but it

483
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: still feels so shocking when she does it because the

484
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: actress is doing such an incredible job. That direction is

485
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 1: so good. The reaction when the sister wakes up is

486
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: so fucked like it's just so good. The score like, yeah,

487
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: I was literally like pulling my sheets the entire time

488
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: because I knew it was going to happen. But like,

489
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: she very much does the thing where it's like taking

490
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: the little bites and like the little tastes before and

491
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: you're like, I know she's gonna fucking do it, but

492
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: the tension, I know, it's so good, it's so good.

493
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, then then Alex wakes up and sees Justine

494
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 1: eating her finger and gives her this like, what the

495
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: funk are you doing? Look? And then we cat to

496
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: the hospital. The parents have shown up, Alex's taken care of,

497
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: and then she blames her missing finger on their dog Quickie,

498
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: having eaten it, even though she knows it was Justine.

499
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: Because Alex has a secret of her own. I know.

500
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: At first, I was like, Alex, you're just gonna kill

501
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: a dog over this, that's me, But then but she

502
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: has her reasons. It's because she's protecting this family secret

503
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: where she has also developed a taste for human flesh.

504
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: It turns out she was the woman at the beginning

505
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: of the movie who had caused that car crash, because

506
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: she does this again and brings Justine with her, and

507
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: she she causes another car to crash and then kind

508
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: of goes over to eat the people. But Justine's like, no,

509
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: that this is not what I want for myself and

510
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: she storms off um. But then she notices how hungry

511
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: and or horny, but mostly hungry she is for her

512
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: roommate Adrian, and later at a party she's making out

513
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: with this guy, she bites part of his lip off,

514
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 1: he freaks out about it, and then she hooks up

515
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: with Adrian and the whole time she's trying to bite

516
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: at him and eat him, and he's like stop that.

517
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: So then she bites her own arm and draws blood

518
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: by gnawing on her own arm. Then Justine goes to

519
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: this party and she gets really dry sunk, and she

520
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: kind of again like surprise kisses, slash bites, surprise bites

521
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: a few people, and then Alex finds her and takes

522
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: her out of the situation. And then the next day

523
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: at class, everyone's looking at Justine all weird, and it

524
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: turns out the night before someone had taken a video

525
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: of Alex kind of taunting a very drunk Justine with

526
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: a cadaver. That's one way to describe that video that

527
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: that video is so dark and again so well composed

528
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: because it's so fucked up to watch, because Alex is

529
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: basically like, here, eat it, eat the dead body, and Justine,

530
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: who was like kind of too drunk to really do anything,

531
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: is still like trying to like lunge at it and

532
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: bite it and like eat it, but she's like just

533
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: way too drunk to do anything. But there's a whole

534
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: crowd of people watching this, and now everyone thinks that

535
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: Justine is a is a week, so she confronts Alex

536
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: about having done this to her, and they get in

537
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: this big fight on campus. They're biting at each other,

538
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: Alex bite a chunk out of Justine's face, but eventually

539
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 1: they stopped fighting and then they kind of make up

540
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: and Alex tends to Justine's face bite, and then the

541
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: next morning, Justine wakes up in bed with Adrian, who

542
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: turns out to be dead a huge chunk of his

543
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: leg has been eaten. That reveal was also so devastating.

544
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: You've really you can guess that Adrian's probably fucked, but

545
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: I was still I was still folding out hope for him. Yeah,

546
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: it's really gross to look at, really gross. And it

547
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: turns out he's been He was spiked in the abdomen

548
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: by a ski pool and then eaten, and Justine at

549
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: first thinks that she did it, but apparently it was

550
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: Alex who had stabbed him and eaten him, and then

551
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: Alex goes to prison for murder. Then we cut to

552
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: Justine visiting her parents, and her dad reveals that what

553
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: happened isn't her fault. Nor was it Alex's fault. Their

554
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: hunger for human flesh is something their mother passed down

555
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: to them, because he opens his shirt and reveals a

556
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: bunch of scarring from when their mother had eaten chunks

557
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: out of him, and he's like, don't worry, Justine, I'm

558
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: sure you'll find a solution to your cannibal problem. The

559
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: end cut to title amazing ending because the dad's literally

560
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: just sitting there like kind of calm, looking like, Yeah,

561
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: I love your mother, so she could just take hunks

562
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: out of me whenever she wants, I guess. So let's

563
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we'll come right back

564
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: to discuss. And we're back. So is this like a

565
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: reverse Twilight situation? What's going on here? I was truly

566
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: shocked at the reveal at the end that again, the

567
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: first time I watched it, I did not see like

568
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: so stark a reveal made and realizing how much it

569
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: had been like seated in the beginning with their like

570
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: interpersonal family relationships and you just kind of like view

571
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: it as like, I don't know their parents that are

572
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: kind of intense, I guess, And it tracks the entire time,

573
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: but like side swipes you to where it's just like, oh,

574
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 1: we all have to do this. She did it, I

575
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: did it. We just have to do this in order

576
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 1: to become like a fully formed adult, we have to

577
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 1: go through this period. It makes me wonder like, would

578
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: they have ever developed this hunger for human flesh had

579
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 1: they not eaten the rabbit kidney? In which case, why

580
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: do their parents insist on sending their daughters to this

581
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: place where they know they'll eat this and then like

582
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: that's like a hazing technique, yeah, and then they will

583
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: develop these cannibalistic tendencies. I did have some questions walking

584
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: away from the movie, but I do feel like I

585
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,279
Speaker 1: mean something that I because when when this movie ended,

586
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, this is the kind of movie

587
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: where like you have to just like go to the

588
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: source and figure out. Okay, what was the writer director

589
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,959
Speaker 1: thinking when she made this? What has she publicly said

590
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 1: this movie is about. I'm just I was so curious

591
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: about her perspective on it. And I know that all

592
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: of us have have spent some time. I mean, I

593
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: think I've probably spent the least out of everybody. But

594
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: but I as I was watching interviews with her about

595
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 1: this movie, I really appreciated and thought it was very

596
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: fucking cool how she would engage with questions like that

597
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: to an extent but would not give the yes or

598
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: no answers that she was being asked. And as that

599
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: kind of pertains to gender, it like challenged some stuff

600
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 1: that I had gone into these interviews kind of assuming

601
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: that she was trying to say. And I felt very

602
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: challenged by Julia Ducarnov of how she responded to those

603
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 1: questions because I don't know, I felt a little silly

604
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: by the end where she was asked, you know, like

605
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: is this a women's horror movie essentially? And which is

606
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,800
Speaker 1: like if you flipped that question for almost any profession,

607
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: it's uh, pretty insulting. And I was just like, oh, yeah,

608
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: how many times have any of us been asked like, so,

609
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 1: what is it like to be a woman comedy? And

610
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: you're like, well, that's a shitty I object to the

611
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: premise of the question, and I realized that I was

612
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: sort of asking myself that question as a viewer of

613
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: a horror movie, and she was sort of like, well,

614
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 1: I don't you know, I don't really want to say

615
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: either way. I don't think that will ask this question

616
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: two men. I think that, you know, the protagonists of

617
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: this movie could be a man potentially, and the movie

618
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: could play out the same way. But this is the

619
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: movie I wrote, so interpreted as you will, and I

620
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 1: don't know. I just thought her attitude towards I think

621
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 1: the very and current questions that are asked of filmmakers

622
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: who are not white guys was very like punk rock

623
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: and cool. I loved it. Yeah, It's something I love too, because,

624
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: like I feel like in horror, especially when like marginalized

625
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: people do manage to obtain the funding that they want

626
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 1: to make something. Oftentimes, if you're like if you're a woman,

627
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: or you're queer, or your trans or your POC, you're

628
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: kind of expected to like sell your tragedy once you

629
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: get the foot in the door, and you can't just

630
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: tell a story to where it's just like I'm going

631
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: to tell a horror story. But it's like, because horror

632
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: is such a good vehicle for empathy, it's gonna be

633
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: like I want you to like see what my experience is.

634
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: But half the time that isn't even the stories they're

635
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: trying to sell. It's the stories that they're being asked

636
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: to sell. And because if you go back to the

637
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties. In the early two thousand's, you have

638
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: these examples of like I've brought her up before, but

639
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: Mary Hearn working on an American psycho, Or you have

640
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: pet cemetery, you have like slumber party massacre, or where

641
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: they're like just directed by women that want to tell stories.

642
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: And there's almost this like sinister turn by like men

643
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: in horror that hold the keys to the money towards like, oh,

644
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: I'm implying that I want to like encourage more voices,

645
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 1: but it's only a certain kind and like I want

646
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: you to reaffirm that I'm a great human, and I'm like,

647
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: I'm giving you these the money, but it's only to

648
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 1: be like, look, how great of a human I am.

649
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: I'm letting women tell their stories, but it's only like

650
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: the stories I want them to tell, but only if

651
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: they're talking about the worst thing that's ever happened to them. Yeah, Yeah,

652
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: I totally agree with you. And that's something that I

653
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: feel like I've I've been trying to like check and

654
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: challenge and myself as a viewer to where it's like, yeah,

655
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,959
Speaker 1: is wouldn't it just be the actual equal approach would

656
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,919
Speaker 1: be like here's money to make the movie you want

657
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 1: to make. Exactly. It doesn't need to be a one

658
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: to one analogy for something you have lived through, Like

659
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: that is such an absurd qualifier. If that were true,

660
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: sci fi wouldn't exist, like just most horror movies wouldn't exist.

661
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't know, Julia, do Karna put me

662
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: in my place and if I loved every second of it,

663
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 1: it was great. She also speaks to how she's not

664
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 1: like I'm a female director making female movie. She's like,

665
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm a filmmaker making movies that could speak to any

666
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 1: audience member. And she's like, I don't want to genderize

667
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: my audience or my movie. And then she kind of

668
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 1: equates people's tendency to like put female directors into boxes

669
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: like that and like, oh, well, you're a woman and

670
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: you're making movies for women, and only women are going

671
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: to connect to this because woman's can only like women things,

672
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: and she like equates it to like how ridiculous it

673
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 1: is for like razors marketed to women have to be

674
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: pink and have to like cost more, and like pens

675
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: that are marketed to women that are pink, and like

676
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: she's like, no, like I'm not. I'm just making a

677
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: movie that happens to focus on a woman and be

678
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 1: about that young woman's experience. But it's a movie that

679
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 1: literally any audience member could see and see humanity in

680
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: and be compelled by in some way. Yeah, And like

681
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,439
Speaker 1: I noticed a lot of the criticism for raw usually

682
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: for men. Um We're critiques that I see only when

683
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: it's a woman directing, because I see men do the

684
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: same thing and they're usually praised for it. There's a

685
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: lot where it's like I felt like hyper stylized for

686
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: no reason. It felt like, you know, very like colorful

687
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 1: and poppy for no reason. And that's like something that

688
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: you hear them say to like Sofia Coppola, or it's

689
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: like why is it so fim? Because it's pretty? And

690
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: I love self indulgence in filmmakers. I love it when

691
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: you give me something that might be like a little

692
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: bit unaccessible or like, you know, very flashy for the

693
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: sake of flashy, because you get to you're behind the helm.

694
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: But when it's like David Lynch making something an eternity long,

695
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: or like gas bar Noa making something that looks the

696
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: same fucking way their geniuses but for women, it's like

697
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 1: too stylish. Yeah, right, And then also people were saying like, oh,

698
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 1: it's so nice to have a woman director brought to

699
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: this genre because it adds like a softness to the industry,

700
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: And she was like, what are you talking about? Have

701
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 1: you even seen my movie? Like this movie soft toilet

702
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: paper is soft. I'm not soft. This is a direct

703
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: quote from her, which is amazing. That's an amazing one,

704
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: like T shirt, She's so good. I love her. Yeah,

705
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: I really appreciated how like and and also this is

706
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,959
Speaker 1: like an unfair thing, like if she were a male director,

707
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 1: this would not be a problem that she would be having,

708
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: Like there wouldn't be this level of loaded question lodged

709
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,359
Speaker 1: to her every which way about what she's making. And

710
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean I hate that she has to

711
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 1: do it, but she navigates these questions and issues. I thought, like,

712
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 1: so in a way that made me want to be better.

713
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: Like she's she's just awesome. She's intimidatingly French. Yes, she's so.

714
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: I was like, even though I know, like I don't

715
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: think I actually saw an interview where she was smoking

716
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: a cigarette, but I felt like spiritually she was smoking

717
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: a cigarette every time I saw her like long drags

718
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, there's so many points in this movie

719
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: in which oftentimes I call something ugly and people think

720
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: it's a negative, but like I love a lot of

721
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 1: ugly things. Like my favor show as a kid was

722
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 1: Couraged with The Cowardly Dog because all of the characters

723
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: were like pretty ugly in Michieven looking such a massive

724
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 1: fan of it, So like anything that's kind of ugly,

725
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 1: and I feel like puberty tends to, like we brought

726
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: it up earlier, have such a lens to it that

727
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: when she shows those ugly moments, I have more of

728
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,279
Speaker 1: a wistful romance for my childhood than if I had

729
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: watched something like The sand Lot to where I remember

730
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: the last time I was free enough and felt safe

731
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: enough to explore these things. Because there's a specific scene

732
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: that felt like a literal one to one of a

733
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: childhood experience I had, and I know it wasn't on purpose,

734
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: It was just a very fun coincidence. Um it's that

735
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: scene where she's like covered in blue paint and the

736
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: guy that she's making out with his covered in yellow

737
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: paint and they're essentially doing like the seven minutes in

738
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 1: heaven and they're like, don't come out until you're green,

739
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: and the guy runs out screaming. So because I had

740
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 1: like a very religious upbringing, I did everything very differently.

741
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 1: And it was also like measured with like excitement for

742
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: the new, but also like this weird sense of like

743
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 1: guilt and morning for like what I deemed the quote

744
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: unquote innocent parts of me, because again I was like

745
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: reckoning with that. And I remembered there was a class

746
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: in Bible class where we came in and there was

747
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 1: three lumps of plato on the desk, and he started

748
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: the class by saying, like, you know, you're getting older

749
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: and you're getting urges and even if you're like not

750
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 1: acting on them when you have a partner, and he

751
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: like mushed the two platos together and it was like

752
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: purple and yellow. He was like, you like mix your

753
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: colors in each other, but when you separate, you leave

754
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: little bits of color in each other, and then eventually

755
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: you start to lose your original color as you end

756
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:53,439
Speaker 1: up with your person. And so it was like, let's say,

757
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 1: like you like end up with blue and then you've

758
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: got all these bits in you and like a lot

759
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: of the kids in class because like galaxy, it's galaxy

760
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: brain charifying projection. It's massive shame projection. And like a

761
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: lot of the I was mostly there because my parents

762
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 1: had no idea what the school's deal was. They were

763
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: just like, it's a private school, and we're from a

764
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 1: developing nation, so it feels like it's a good deal.

765
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: And a lot of them were kids whose like parents,

766
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: very much like believed that kind of thing, and so

767
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: they were very much like, yes, of course. And I

768
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 1: got this terrifying, like intrusive thought the entire time where

769
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to be a rainbow. I

770
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: want all the colors. I want to mix with all

771
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: the colors, but I shouldn't because that's bad. And the

772
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: next weekend, I was at a pool party and I

773
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,919
Speaker 1: noticed that there was this new kid in school that

774
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: was staring at my chest. But I liked it, and

775
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: we were alone in the pool later because everyone went inside,

776
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: and he was like, can I like touch him? And

777
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,399
Speaker 1: I was like sure, and then he was like can

778
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 1: we make out and maybe I can see him? And

779
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I'm good And then

780
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: I left because I had gotten exactly what I wanted

781
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 1: because I was like I just want to see what

782
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: this is like and if that's cool, then I'm done.

783
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: And he was utterly flabbergasted. And then in my mind,

784
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: I just went on this mission where it's like I'm

785
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: going to get the experience that I want and if

786
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: I don't want it, and then I'm fucking walking away.

787
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: And it was just the rest of high school, the

788
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: amount of stuff that I did because I was curious.

789
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 1: Before I actually had a first kiss, I like never

790
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: I was talking to my husband about it, but I

791
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: was like, I had most things that you would like

792
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: try much later before I even let someone kiss me

793
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 1: on the mouth, because I was just curious and like

794
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: I saw that there. Yeah, yeah, I feel like this

795
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 1: movie speaks to a lot of that, just like coming

796
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: of age curiosity, and that's what I like really, and

797
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: especially like after hearing the director speak about it, it

798
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, this is a very skillfully told,

799
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 1: like body horror coming of age movie that yes, there

800
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 1: is a woman at the center of but like there's

801
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: no mission statement related to the gender of the protagonist.

802
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: It just like I don't know, like I just thought

803
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 1: it was so because it it felt like at its core.

804
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: The more I watched it, and the where I was

805
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: sitting with it, it was like, whatever, this is a

806
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: character who is going back and forth with a very

807
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 1: eighteen year old problem, which is like who is the

808
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: image that I have constructed of myself? And who am

809
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: I becoming? And like where am I? Like what directions

810
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 1: am I being pulled in? And what compromises am I

811
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: willing to make as I become an adult? And like

812
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 1: what am I actually very naive about that I'm afraid

813
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 1: to admit And how does that relate to my family

814
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,479
Speaker 1: and how I grew up? And just all this ship

815
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:48,919
Speaker 1: that is very universal and to see that I've it

816
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: made me just I don't know, like think about how

817
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: rarely we see a very universal message channeled through a

818
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 1: woman as a protagonist, which I feel like might be

819
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 1: some of the cognitive dissonance I was experiencing of like, well,

820
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,240
Speaker 1: surely she must be trying to say something about woman

821
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,800
Speaker 1: and when what what happened to women? When women become women?

822
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: But it's like, no, it's a very human experience. But

823
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,240
Speaker 1: I feel like we're conditioned to see these very human

824
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 1: relatable heroes or I mean whatever, just need it's not

825
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: a hero necessarily, but the person at the center of

826
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: the story as usually men, and we're kind of expected

827
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: to meet them where they're at with their experience, and

828
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: the opposite is kind of rarely asked of people. But

829
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: it's it's it's easy to do with this movie. Yeah,

830
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: it's it's one of those things where it's so much

831
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: better to aim for specificity than trying to please everyone

832
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: and automatically like be for everyone for the sake of

833
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: being for everyone, instead of like telling us specific as

834
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: of a story as you want. I for how much

835
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 1: I disagree with like many, many, many reviews, all of

836
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 1: his horror reviews and his thoughts on The Lake House,

837
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 1: which were mostly positive, which is bizarre. There's a Rogerty

838
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: review that like lives in my brain all the time,

839
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: and it was a review for Brokeback Mountain, and he

840
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: was talking about why telling a specific story will resonate

841
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: with more people because you're telling something that is detailed

842
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: and authentic versus something that's like trying to be for

843
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 1: every experience, even once you don't fucking know. And he

844
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: was like a lot of filmmakers try and like tell

845
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 1: a queer story by being like, here's a little bit

846
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: for everyone, even though I don't actually know the experience.

847
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 1: And then it doesn't even like land with queer people,

848
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: and so it's just like vague. It's just vague. And

849
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: he's like, Brokeback Mountain was such a specific story about

850
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 1: these two people, but he's like, you're watching like straight

851
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: guys call people that they haven't called in years, as

852
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: like the ones that got away. You're watching like women

853
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: do the same thing. And it's like, because it was

854
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: so specific, it resonated harder with like the idea of

855
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:06,359
Speaker 1: lost love that everyone knows versus something that's just like

856
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what, what do analytics say? Everyone will

857
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:14,479
Speaker 1: like right right right? Oh that is yeah. Also hate

858
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 1: to hand it to him, but that right, that hit

859
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: because he's got a lot of opinions I do not

860
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: agree with. But but yeah, you're you're totally. I mean,

861
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: I feel like this movie kind of does scratch that

862
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 1: same itches, Like if if Justine's story was less specific,

863
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: the story wouldn't work the way that it does. Yeah, which,

864
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,280
Speaker 1: speaking of scratching itches, the sound design, Oh my god,

865
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 1: oh my god, that rash that she develops, and like

866
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: the scene where it's like getting peeled off, like it's

867
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: a lot I I also really I wanted to just

868
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 1: kind of shout out the scene between her and the

869
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: doctor who is spoking at the appointment, which I was like, hilarious.

870
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: I was hilarious to me because I am such an

871
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 1: American du fist that I'm like, is this a joke

872
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 1: or like, is this just what French doctors are like?

873
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 1: I don't know, but that scene I thought was so

874
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 1: that was like one of those scenes where it's like, oh,

875
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 1: there was points were made in that scene, but it

876
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: wasn't in a way that was I don't know that

877
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 1: felt preachy or overwritten or anything like that. But the

878
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 1: scene where Justine is going to get her rash looked

879
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,399
Speaker 1: at after it breaks out and she goes to a

880
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: doctor or a nurse and has it looked at, she's

881
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 1: not diagnosed correctly. They have a conversation and they have

882
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 1: basically a conversation about how women are not taken seriously

883
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: by doctors and specifically fat women in the context of

884
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: the conversation, and it seems like Justine's take away from

885
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: that conversation is like, well, this is a broken system.

886
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:02,560
Speaker 1: So this is not where I'm going to get the

887
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: answers that I need and I thought that the way

888
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:08,839
Speaker 1: that Julia, I mean, I would be curious what other

889
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: listeners think. I thought that the way that Julia Dukerno

890
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: like illustrated that point by the doctor saying that she

891
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: had had a fat woman as a patient who had

892
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 1: been repeatedly not just misdiagnosed, but like refused medical care

893
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: based on a like an issue that had nothing to

894
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: do with the size of her body, and having that

895
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,839
Speaker 1: be sort of a wake up call for Justine of like, well,

896
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 1: this isn't a system that's going to serve me or

897
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: like treat me fairly basically. I just, yeah, I thought

898
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: that was like such a cool, effective way to make

899
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,439
Speaker 1: that point. It's truly mind blowing. Like some people, I think,

900
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: I like blew a few minds when I told a

901
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 1: few friends that there's a weight limit for Plan b OH,

902
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: I did not realize that either. Yeah, it's only effective

903
00:52:56,080 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: up until I think two pounds. And then like I

904
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: saw that scene and I've like watched it. I watched

905
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: it with my husband and I brought it up to

906
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 1: him and he's like seen it himself. From like it

907
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 1: took me a very long time to get diagnosed with

908
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:13,399
Speaker 1: a combination of like endometriosis and PCOS because I would

909
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 1: go to the doctors all the time and they're just like, well,

910
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: you're fat, lose weight and that's why you're having a

911
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: bad period. And I'm like, this feels significantly worse than

912
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 1: what you're describing. I'm like this, this feels like I

913
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: need some medical intervention soon because I'm like now dealing

914
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: with chronic anemia. And it wasn't until an e R

915
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 1: doctor was like, have you never been tested for either

916
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 1: of these things? Like has nobody ever considered it? I'm like,

917
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 1: I've never even heard of it. I've been having these

918
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: symptoms since I was like eleven years old, and I

919
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: think I was like nineteen at the time, and it

920
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: was like the first time I gained diagnosis. And now

921
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: to this day, I will like go to doctors and

922
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: get the same answer and I'm like, no, actually, I

923
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 1: have these two things and my ovaries looked like a

924
00:53:56,719 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 1: bunch of grape clusters, so if we can get that

925
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: taken care of, and they're just like no, no, no,

926
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: it's fat. To where I was just like whole, it

927
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 1: just doesn't work. It's just like it just doesn't work.

928
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,240
Speaker 1: I did a lot of research on this topic for

929
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 1: a podcast that I have abandoned Sludge an American healthcare story.

930
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: It ended, you don't need to abandoned it because I'm

931
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: done hiatus. Yeah we'll say that. Um, but yeah, I

932
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 1: started to examine all the ways in which particularly marginalized

933
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 1: people have been completely failed by the American health care

934
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,879
Speaker 1: system on the basis that they are fat, or they

935
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 1: are trans, or they are a person of color, or

936
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 1: any number of things. Yeah, it's a real bias that

937
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: a lot of healthcare professionals harbor and people die as

938
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: a result. So absolutely, and that doesn't even begin to

939
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 1: bring in the insurance component of it, and how discriminatory

940
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: that is on top of everything, Like it's even if

941
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: you can find a doctor who's going to give you

942
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 1: a proper diagnosis, can you will you be quote unquote

943
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 1: allowed to have the issue treated? And I mean Justine's

944
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 1: character is a sis white girl from a family of

945
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: veterinary doctors, like she is very privileged and even so,

946
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 1: I mean it was like the frustration and futility of

947
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 1: that scene just like I don't know it it really

948
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,399
Speaker 1: hit for me because it was just like, oh, this

949
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: is just a zero sum game. Where even though Justine

950
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: is talking to a doctor who fully was outraged and

951
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 1: recognized like why would a fat woman be refused medical treatment?

952
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: Like that's absolutely ridiculous. But even so, the doctor who

953
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 1: is saying that is also dismissing Justine's concerns that she

954
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 1: has about her own and is misdiagnosing her. So it's like, well,

955
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,240
Speaker 1: even the doctor that quote unquote gets it is fucking

956
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 1: up and not listening to their patient and taking their

957
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 1: issue seriously. So like, who the fund do you turn to?

958
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 1: In that scene, Justine does not get diagnosed with cannibalism,

959
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 1: and that's up. You need to start letting smoking doctors

960
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 1: tell us where cannibals is. It's also like why she

961
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: runs into Alexis arms. Yeah, for sure you're gonna go

962
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 1: to anyone that's like, hey, this is what I think

963
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:32,759
Speaker 1: is going on with your and like, I guess you

964
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 1: know more than me. I don't know. Yeah, that scene

965
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 1: I thought like that scene was so I just have

966
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,839
Speaker 1: never seen a scene like that before that made a

967
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: very legitimate and impactful point about something and also advanced

968
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 1: the protagonist story in doing so. It feels weirdly rare

969
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 1: that that happens in the way that it does in

970
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 1: this movie deeply, so I hadn't like already in a

971
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: series of things that I hadn't quite seen anything like.

972
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 1: It was yet another one, and especially that in her

973
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 1: her dynamic with her roommate is another one that I

974
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: keep bringing up American Psycho. But like, I love it

975
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:21,320
Speaker 1: when women shoot men the way men shoot women because

976
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: it feels so fucking rare that you're just like I

977
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 1: have stumbled upon something, because you never see them shot

978
00:57:29,360 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: in like the same like slow pan down examinations, and

979
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: like the best part is every time you watch Justine

980
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: watching him, she looks like Jack Torrence in the Shining. Yeah,

981
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 1: She's got like eyes low and she's just like kind

982
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: of scoping him out and nose starts bleeding, yes, like

983
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: very intently looking at him. And then like the possessiveness

984
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: that she gets between her and her sister about him

985
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: to where she doesn't even register any information. It's like,

986
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 1: don't talk to him. I called him. It's mine now.

987
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 1: Like it's always interesting when you get to see like

988
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 1: the lens of objectivity moved in a different direction. Right, Oh,

989
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: I just thought of this, And it might be because

990
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 1: we talked about this also on the other episode we

991
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 1: did with you recently, Vanessa, where we talked about the

992
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 1: kill your Gaze trope. But I was like, oh, wait

993
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: a minute, that does happen in this movie too, because

994
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: even though Adrian and Justine have sex, he identifies as

995
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:33,880
Speaker 1: gay and he like tells her several times. Yeah, so

996
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 1: he's kind of, as far as I could tell, he's

997
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 1: the only identifiably queer character in the movie with any

998
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: kind of narrative significance. And he also dies at the end,

999
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: so part of it fell up very like. I watched

1000
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: that scene a few times, and then the thing that

1001
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 1: I found the most interesting about it is it made

1002
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: me think about puberty and that very scary moment that

1003
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 1: I think everyone has either like experienced or is afraid

1004
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 1: to admit that they've experienced, in which they turned someone

1005
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: into an into not not even object, into a tool

1006
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: for exploration and don't really give any regard to like

1007
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: how that person is affected by that, to where it's

1008
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 1: just like, I'm gonna engage in something really intense with

1009
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: you and then I'm going to disappear completely, Because that

1010
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 1: was my intent the entire time, and I just wanted

1011
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 1: to see what that felt like, or like I want

1012
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 1: you because I decided I want you even though he's

1013
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 1: mostly just the one time he was into it was

1014
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: because he was like kind of fucked up in horny

1015
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: and like not into her the entire time, but like

1016
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 1: she decided that he was something that she wanted, so

1017
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 1: she was going to take it anyway. And it's this

1018
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable but human look into like the inherent selfishness

1019
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: that springs up during puberty that we kind of either

1020
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 1: learn to reel in or let it spin out of

1021
01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: control in terrifying ways and become awful adults. Yeah, that's

1022
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: a great way to put it. Yeah, I I I

1023
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:16,240
Speaker 1: had that sort of bookmarked as just something that I

1024
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 1: wanted to to talk about because yeah, Adrian is the

1025
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 1: only identifiably queer character. I do feel like the writing

1026
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: takes care to tell us who he is. He certainly

1027
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: has a lot like his His impact on the plot

1028
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:36,640
Speaker 1: extends beyond his sexuality by a lot, because he's, you know,

1029
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: to an extent, the only person who is like quote

1030
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 1: unquote onto her and like but also very much cares

1031
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:47,919
Speaker 1: about her and is trying Like, Yeah, I was kind

1032
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 1: of I was kind of stuck on his character because

1033
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,480
Speaker 1: it didn't feel like a cut and dry, kill your

1034
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 1: gaze trope. But he is certainly I mean, he is

1035
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:00,040
Speaker 1: a queer character who is dead by the end of

1036
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: the movie. Yeah, it's It's definitely one where like I

1037
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 1: keep wondering to myself, like is it deliberate? Is it deliberate?

1038
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 1: And what is that deliberate action trying to say, because

1039
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 1: there's so many elements to this that are like thoughtful

1040
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 1: enough that I'm like, either this was like something included

1041
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 1: and that was just like the trajectory for him, or

1042
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:25,360
Speaker 1: there was a deliberate reason for that, right. Yeah. Yeah,

1043
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 1: I also had I was just like I'm not sure.

1044
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly what the intent is here. Nothing

1045
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 1: struck me as so like, oh my god, I can't

1046
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: believe the director made this choice and I'm offended by

1047
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 1: it or anything like that. It was more just like,

1048
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 1: oh I did notice that, but it's quizzical. Yeah, I

1049
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 1: just it's like I wonder how much yeah, like like

1050
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,880
Speaker 1: you're saying that, how much thought and like what the

1051
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 1: decision making was behind that? Because I felt like ultimately

1052
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:56,439
Speaker 1: what was important about Audreyan's character was that he which

1053
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,920
Speaker 1: we see in that awful scene where Justine realizes that

1054
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 1: he's dead and he's not just her the person closest

1055
01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 1: to her who isn't accountable, that's like laying next to her.

1056
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: And it felt like the most impactful thing about his

1057
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 1: character was that he was someone who was close to her,

1058
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 1: who gave a ship about her and cared about her.

1059
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:21,520
Speaker 1: And it felt it felt like the significance of his

1060
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: character was, you know, just unrelated to his identity. It

1061
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: was like, this is the person who matters to me

1062
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: the most, who is not my family and accountable, like

1063
01:02:33,080 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: and so you feel you like feel that loss when

1064
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: she and also the I mean the performance from um

1065
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 1: Garant Marallier very French, very French, but like her performance

1066
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: in that scene I thought was just so like gut wrenching,

1067
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 1: lee awful when you realize that he's dead and she

1068
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: thinks that she's done it and like all this ship

1069
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: and yeah, I just I I ended that character's arc

1070
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: with with just question marks. I don't know, I think

1071
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:05,000
Speaker 1: this could be. This is just this is a new

1072
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: thought that I'm just having right now. But I've been

1073
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what his character like reminds me

1074
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 1: of and what it echoes of, And it kind of

1075
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: reminds in terms of like when I've felt like that.

1076
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 1: He reminds me of any time I've told a man

1077
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 1: that I've been wholly uninterested in him, but I was

1078
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 1: kind to him, and that was a green light enough,

1079
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: Like it makes me think of every time I've been like,

1080
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 1: there is no sexual appeal here. You're a friend and

1081
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 1: roommate or you're like schoolmate or co worker that I'm

1082
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 1: kind of nice too, but like me looking out for

1083
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: you no matter how much I say I'm not interested

1084
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 1: in you, is the green light to be like, but

1085
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 1: we're into each other, right, you mean as far as

1086
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 1: like how Justine, Like she's the one who's like, oh,

1087
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 1: I've I've got this green Is that we mean? Yeah,

1088
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:00,760
Speaker 1: because I noticed, like even after they have sex, he's like,

1089
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:04,400
Speaker 1: I'm fucking gay, and even before that, everyone else is

1090
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 1: telling her like she knew that, and she knew that,

1091
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:09,600
Speaker 1: and everyone else is telling her like, this will not

1092
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: end the way you wanted to with him, like because

1093
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: she looks at him very like dreamy eyed, and even

1094
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 1: when he first pulls her into the bathroom, he has

1095
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 1: made it so fucking clear I am gay. I do

1096
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:23,920
Speaker 1: not want you this way. We are friends, but when

1097
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:25,919
Speaker 1: he first pulls into the bathroom, he's trying to show

1098
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 1: her a video of her on the phone that like

1099
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 1: uncomfortable video, but she literally looks at him and smiles

1100
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 1: and even raises an eyebrow and is like what are

1101
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 1: you doing and is like, oh, maybe he's trying again.

1102
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 1: And it's like he has made it so clear to

1103
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 1: you that he's not into you, but she's still like

1104
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:48,160
Speaker 1: maybe now. The entire time also just emblematic of the

1105
01:04:48,160 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: confusing nature of coming of age sexually and how we

1106
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:55,919
Speaker 1: like to say, as someone who has been in love

1107
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:00,160
Speaker 1: with a gay man before, you're just like, oh, yea, no,

1108
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:04,919
Speaker 1: he told you. He told you, Like stop stop. I've

1109
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: definitely had like a boyfriend who's been like I'm fucking gay,

1110
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 1: and I'm like, does this mean we're not going to prom?

1111
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: And it's not registering. Oh, I'm glad. That's such a

1112
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 1: universal experience. Ye yeah, And and that is like that

1113
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 1: is a I mean, I guess even that conversation alone

1114
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 1: is like that is such a messy aspect of being

1115
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: for both of them, of like being a young person

1116
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 1: figuring your sexuality out and like Adrian does have it

1117
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 1: figured out and he's clear, and also like Justine is

1118
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 1: like but like you know, and it's I don't know.

1119
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 1: I mean again, I want to know what our our

1120
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:51,680
Speaker 1: listeners think is it's a pretty like gutsy dynamic for

1121
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 1: the writer to take on because it's I mean, just

1122
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 1: based on the last two minutes of discussion, it is

1123
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 1: like certainly a thing that happens and exists and can

1124
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 1: be confusing to navigate, you know, like some whatever. Like

1125
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 1: in the situation, in my personal experience, we were able

1126
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 1: to get through it. It's all good, We're still friends,

1127
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 1: it's like fine. And then other situations and differently, it's

1128
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: a real life dynamic that exists, but it's not one

1129
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:25,160
Speaker 1: that I've seen attempted in movies very often, and I

1130
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 1: kind of get why because it's a like risky, messy

1131
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 1: thing to attempt in a story. It's a fucking mine

1132
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 1: field that doesn't really have enough discussion or examination to

1133
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 1: like figure out how to approach and what those dynamics are.

1134
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: Because I can I feel like anyone that's ever been

1135
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: in that situation, it's like the first time you truly

1136
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 1: realize what a big spectrum gender and sexuality is to

1137
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: where you're just like, I don't know where my rigidity

1138
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 1: is and I'm still figuring it out and maybe it's

1139
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 1: like kind of solidly somewhere, but I'm still not sure,

1140
01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: and the language doesn't exist for it, and my birds

1141
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 1: in the Bees conversation is so heteronormative and for baby

1142
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:09,040
Speaker 1: making that I have literally no guide for this. Like

1143
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 1: I remember sitting down with my mother and being like,

1144
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 1: were you at all prepared for two of your daughters

1145
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 1: to be queer when you're giving us the sex talk?

1146
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 1: And she's like, I just learned about dental damns from

1147
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 1: your thirty three year old sister a year ago. I

1148
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 1: was not fucking ready for any of that. Nothing prepared

1149
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 1: me for it. And so when that's like one of

1150
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 1: your first formative romances and society isn't advanced enough to

1151
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 1: help you navigate it, everyone is messy and everyone makes

1152
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 1: the wrong choice. Well, that's what's so cool to me

1153
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 1: about this movie, or at least one of the things

1154
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 1: where the character that we are watching and identifying with

1155
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:53,040
Speaker 1: because she's the protagonist, is someone who is like fucking

1156
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 1: up a lot and like making mistakes and like not

1157
01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 1: behaving very well to the point where she's eating people.

1158
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: But this movie has this rooting for a cannibal, Like

1159
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,760
Speaker 1: that's like the writing if you, as a writer can

1160
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 1: get us to root for a cannibal like your good

1161
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 1: writer period, especially because like the cannibalism can easily be

1162
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:21,439
Speaker 1: seen as an allegory for things that are perhaps more

1163
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 1: relatable to your average person who isn't engaging in cannibalism, where,

1164
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people have discussed how this

1165
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:34,599
Speaker 1: movie is allegorical for, you know, just a coming of age,

1166
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:38,320
Speaker 1: sexual awakening, just the kind of general idea of discovering

1167
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:41,480
Speaker 1: your identity. Some people are even like it's about experimenting

1168
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:45,280
Speaker 1: with drugs, probably other things that you could see it

1169
01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 1: as an allegory for. To me, the main one was

1170
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:51,599
Speaker 1: like the coming into your own as a sexual person,

1171
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:55,680
Speaker 1: and like starting to mature sexually and the whole kind

1172
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 1: of like sexual metaphor, where that is a messy thing

1173
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:03,719
Speaker 1: to now the gate as basically any person, especially because

1174
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:06,479
Speaker 1: of the culture we live in and how we are

1175
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 1: all products of our environments and how culture does not

1176
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 1: adequately prepare really anyone to especially like when we were

1177
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 1: coming of age sexually and everyone in generations before us like, yeah,

1178
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 1: the boomers were not read. I mean, it's like van Efa,

1179
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 1: you just like said it very cular. It's like the

1180
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 1: boomers were not ready, right, So it's just yah, it's

1181
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 1: a very interesting thing to explore. So it's not as

1182
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 1: though like the movies and being like the movie, we're

1183
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:40,599
Speaker 1: not like, oh wow, look at Justine. What a model character,

1184
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 1: what a role model I can look up to kind

1185
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 1: of thing in that way. But it's more just like,

1186
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:51,840
Speaker 1: let's examine how messy and complicated and often confusing and

1187
01:09:52,120 --> 01:10:00,400
Speaker 1: sometimes shameful this processes for everybody, and especially because again

1188
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:04,440
Speaker 1: our culture where sex is still kind of taboo, especially

1189
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 1: in certain contexts, and rape culture is still pervasive, and

1190
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:13,560
Speaker 1: a lot of people's understanding of consent is still pretty murky,

1191
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 1: and there's very little emphasis on female pleasure and women's

1192
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:22,920
Speaker 1: sexual autonomy, and any sex that isn't sis heterosex has

1193
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 1: historically been demonized, and people are shamed for having kinks

1194
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: and just like all this stuff that makes navigating your

1195
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 1: own sexuality a difficult and again messy thing that again

1196
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,719
Speaker 1: a lot of people are conditioned to feel shame about,

1197
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:43,880
Speaker 1: and cultural expectations make it so a lot of people,

1198
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 1: like we see Justine doing in the movie, funk up

1199
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:52,879
Speaker 1: and make mistakes and push other people's boundaries and comfort levels.

1200
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 1: And yeah, so I just think that it's really cool

1201
01:10:57,160 --> 01:11:01,559
Speaker 1: that this movie explores this awakening process for this young

1202
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 1: woman and that you can see it in all these

1203
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 1: allegorical and symbolic ways. And yeah, I mean the idea

1204
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:16,200
Speaker 1: of shame where I was just thinking about, like I

1205
01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:19,080
Speaker 1: was trying to just like think through I was like, Okay,

1206
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:23,160
Speaker 1: why cannibalism for this story specifically? And I feel like

1207
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:27,720
Speaker 1: shame is the key there where there's so few things

1208
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 1: that to everyone essentially is like you would be ashamed

1209
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: if you ate another person, Like that would be a

1210
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 1: universal feeling of shame minus a very very very very

1211
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:49,240
Speaker 1: very small fraction of people who exist. And I I

1212
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: liked how it's like not liked. I mean, it's very

1213
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 1: difficult to watch, but how it in the context of

1214
01:11:55,320 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 1: a coming of age story. It's like, how can you

1215
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:01,160
Speaker 1: make anyone watching this movie if the feeling of shame

1216
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:04,559
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh yeah, like evoking the feeling of

1217
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 1: doing the most shameful thing that no person is ever

1218
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:11,719
Speaker 1: supposed to do. Of course that's going to like bring

1219
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 1: a universality to this character. That is like such a

1220
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 1: smart use of the idea of cannibalism. Like it's just

1221
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:24,280
Speaker 1: so good. It's so smart because it's one of like

1222
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:27,639
Speaker 1: the last taboos. It's one of like the last things

1223
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:29,519
Speaker 1: that's like we don't talk about this, and if we do,

1224
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:31,759
Speaker 1: like the person choice, we like looked at a certain

1225
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:35,160
Speaker 1: type of way, like sex is far from like the

1226
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 1: last one, but it certainly still is one. And by

1227
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 1: like merging the two and like piggy backing it together,

1228
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 1: you end up I was going to say odd, but

1229
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:48,640
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say odd. Um, it's fucking beautiful

1230
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:53,040
Speaker 1: that a movie about cannibalism makes me like feel a

1231
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:55,360
Speaker 1: little bit more in awe of humanity by the end

1232
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,480
Speaker 1: of it, towards like, oh, this is such a collective

1233
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 1: experience we pretend isn't real, that we're all like completely

1234
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,360
Speaker 1: united by that by the end of it, I'm just

1235
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:08,360
Speaker 1: like humans or something else. I would recommend if you

1236
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:11,519
Speaker 1: haven't already read it. Vanessa and listeners. Um. There's a

1237
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:17,640
Speaker 1: Guardian interview with the director Julia Duquneau entitled Cannibalism is

1238
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:24,040
Speaker 1: Part of humanity because she rocks this is what her

1239
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 1: whole thing. She's like, Yeah, I made this movie because like,

1240
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:31,800
Speaker 1: cannibalism is extremely a part of humanity, and that's what

1241
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 1: I'm going for with this movie. I desperately want to

1242
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:40,559
Speaker 1: know her thoughts on like meat consumption and farming now

1243
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: that is I would be hilarious if she is like

1244
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:48,439
Speaker 1: like militant vegan right where she's like, it's not, We're

1245
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:51,439
Speaker 1: not that far from it. Like, I desperately want to

1246
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 1: know where she thinks, because she shows it in the

1247
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:58,639
Speaker 1: movie as well, Like where do those lines blur for her? Yeah, right,

1248
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 1: let's take another quick break and then we will come

1249
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:12,599
Speaker 1: right back and we're back. There are two other things

1250
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 1: that stuck out to me about this movie. I guess

1251
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:19,360
Speaker 1: I'll go for the more obscure one first. And maybe

1252
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 1: this is like it's like hit for me personally. I

1253
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:25,360
Speaker 1: don't know, but the ending of the movie took me

1254
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:27,960
Speaker 1: off guard plot wise, because it is such a good

1255
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:31,080
Speaker 1: ending to the movie to be like, oh, this is

1256
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:35,799
Speaker 1: like the idea that it's like this isn't your specifically's fault.

1257
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:39,559
Speaker 1: This is something that was passed down to you, and

1258
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:42,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure like you can make the argument for like

1259
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:45,360
Speaker 1: a generation, like it's a generational trauma in this family

1260
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:50,519
Speaker 1: that women eat people um or or even just the

1261
01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:53,400
Speaker 1: offspring this bloodline eats people. We don't know, because the

1262
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:57,120
Speaker 1: two siblings in this family are are girls. It could

1263
01:14:57,120 --> 01:14:59,880
Speaker 1: it could be you don't know, but it is the

1264
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:03,640
Speaker 1: generational inherited trauma. And so in a way, it's like

1265
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 1: Justine can feel relief that it's like this is not

1266
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 1: an individual shame or flaw. It is coming from somewhere.

1267
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:15,120
Speaker 1: There's a context for it. And I thought that was cool.

1268
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 1: But then also the idea of like the last line

1269
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 1: of the movie is her father basically saying, but you're smart,

1270
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 1: you'll figure it out. And so it's like, now there's

1271
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:31,519
Speaker 1: this context for this huge like shame and humiliation and

1272
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:35,200
Speaker 1: sadness in her life, and she's also being told by

1273
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:37,880
Speaker 1: the person providing that context, who she loves and trusts,

1274
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 1: good fucking luck. Like you know, I just thought that

1275
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:45,839
Speaker 1: was such a just again, just like a very human

1276
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 1: frustration and experience to be like, oh no, no, no,

1277
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 1: our whole family is fucked up. But like, uh, I

1278
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 1: don't know, like good luck, hope you figure that out,

1279
01:15:56,160 --> 01:16:00,760
Speaker 1: Like it I just I loved it. Maybe it'll be you, right, Like,

1280
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:03,880
Speaker 1: maybe you'll be the one to resolve general like who

1281
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:07,280
Speaker 1: knows how far back this goes, like you would assume

1282
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 1: further and he's like, no, Justine, you're a smart kid,

1283
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:15,760
Speaker 1: good luck whatever, brutle. It made me think of every

1284
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:18,519
Speaker 1: time an older cousin would like, note something funked up

1285
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 1: in our family and then be like, but we're betting

1286
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 1: on you, kid, And I'm like, that's a lot of

1287
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 1: weird bloodlines to depend on me to rectify. It's a

1288
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 1: lot of pressure. You're like, oh, yeah, I've got like

1289
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:33,120
Speaker 1: taking a Like it just felt so like in and

1290
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:36,840
Speaker 1: out and in of like, oh, this is a generational issue,

1291
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:40,240
Speaker 1: it's not an individual problem. But then her dad is

1292
01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 1: also taking the extra step to make it an individual

1293
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 1: problem for her and say so you should probably figure

1294
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:49,599
Speaker 1: this out or this is just going to keep happening.

1295
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:53,040
Speaker 1: It's such a I don't know, It's like every family

1296
01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 1: has their version of whatever that is. It's also like

1297
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:58,839
Speaker 1: this terrifying moment when you find out this very intimate

1298
01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:03,960
Speaker 1: thing about like your parents relationship dynamic because like her

1299
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:07,040
Speaker 1: mom is so aloof the entire time that I'm sure

1300
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:09,720
Speaker 1: in her mind that she's like the colder one that

1301
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:12,720
Speaker 1: leaves a lot of things up to Dad, and then

1302
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,719
Speaker 1: finding out that Dad is just kind of a midnight

1303
01:17:15,800 --> 01:17:22,599
Speaker 1: snack for mom sometimes, Like, yeah, it's that moment where

1304
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:25,640
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, there's just stuff behind the curtains the

1305
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:29,000
Speaker 1: entire time that I haven't been privy too because everyone

1306
01:17:29,080 --> 01:17:33,760
Speaker 1: decided that I couldn't handle it, right, Yeah, I do.

1307
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:36,320
Speaker 1: I think it's kind of interesting the choice to really

1308
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:39,120
Speaker 1: not include her mom very much in the movie and

1309
01:17:39,160 --> 01:17:42,439
Speaker 1: then the reveal it comes from the dad, and like

1310
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:46,479
Speaker 1: there's another earlier conversation where she talks to her dad

1311
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:49,880
Speaker 1: outside the hospital after she's eating her sister's finger, and

1312
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:54,000
Speaker 1: I guess that like more effectively sets up this big

1313
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:56,880
Speaker 1: reveal that it's like and it was her mother who

1314
01:17:57,000 --> 01:18:02,639
Speaker 1: is responded like she passed down the annibulism gene whatever.

1315
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:07,320
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, it definitely made the reveal more shocking

1316
01:18:07,360 --> 01:18:09,320
Speaker 1: because I guess we don't don't really know that much

1317
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:12,960
Speaker 1: about her mom, if anything, so at first I was

1318
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:15,639
Speaker 1: sort of like, what is that? But then also it's like, oh,

1319
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 1: it's good. I mean they have to withhold that from you.

1320
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 1: And then in red and then when you walk it

1321
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:22,800
Speaker 1: back the second time, you're like, oh, that was like

1322
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 1: absolutely the right choice and you understand it. Watching a

1323
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:28,360
Speaker 1: second time, it makes me want a like prequel to

1324
01:18:28,520 --> 01:18:32,120
Speaker 1: Raw that we where we focus on her mom and like,

1325
01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:34,360
Speaker 1: I want to focus on her mom. And I'm also

1326
01:18:34,439 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 1: like fascinated by the dad because I feel like the

1327
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:43,800
Speaker 1: dad could be such a fascinating exploration into like kink

1328
01:18:43,840 --> 01:18:48,760
Speaker 1: as well to where it's like what what in him?

1329
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:51,439
Speaker 1: That like? Because he was like, I pursued her and

1330
01:18:51,439 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 1: then we finally kissed, and then you find out that

1331
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:55,599
Speaker 1: that scar on his lip came from their first kiss

1332
01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:58,400
Speaker 1: in which she bit him. But he was like I

1333
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:01,800
Speaker 1: want more. I know this, and I want more and

1334
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:04,200
Speaker 1: I want to be around for more. So I'm like

1335
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:07,559
Speaker 1: what in him was like not only like this is

1336
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:10,640
Speaker 1: something that I can like love her in spite of it.

1337
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:13,880
Speaker 1: To have a relationship that long and have it be

1338
01:19:13,960 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 1: like something that happened that young and adolescents, it can't

1339
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:19,080
Speaker 1: be in spite of He's there has to be an

1340
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 1: additional appeal. He's got to be into it. Yes, yeah,

1341
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:28,479
Speaker 1: You're not in a relationship for decades for nothing. Getting

1342
01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:32,720
Speaker 1: eaten actively eaten by your spouse if you're not kind

1343
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 1: of like this is hot, right, Another just like familial

1344
01:19:39,320 --> 01:19:42,360
Speaker 1: relationship thing I wanted to talk about was the relationship

1345
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:45,719
Speaker 1: between the two sisters. Yes, yes, that was the other thing. Yeah,

1346
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 1: where I'm realizing like how rare it is to see

1347
01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:55,320
Speaker 1: a relationship dynamic between two sisters be at the center

1348
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:58,760
Speaker 1: of a movie. And it was just like, first, just

1349
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 1: like refreshing to se you that because of the lack

1350
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:06,680
Speaker 1: of that relationship dynamic that we don't get that much

1351
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:08,559
Speaker 1: of um. And then on top of that, I just

1352
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:10,760
Speaker 1: thought it was really well written. It felt like a

1353
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 1: very authentic dynamic to me, where sometimes we see them

1354
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:20,519
Speaker 1: getting along and bonding and getting closer, and then other

1355
01:20:20,560 --> 01:20:24,120
Speaker 1: times we see that they're pissing each other off. The

1356
01:20:24,280 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 1: like kind of older sister thing of like her being

1357
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:31,800
Speaker 1: overly critical of her younger sister is something that like

1358
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:38,519
Speaker 1: I very tragically identified with because I'm like, oops, this

1359
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:41,600
Speaker 1: reminds me of of all the times that I was

1360
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:46,160
Speaker 1: really critical and mean to my younger sister. Sorry a

1361
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 1: movie too, yes, like because it really like it's I

1362
01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:56,720
Speaker 1: this again felt like I God, damnit, Roger Ebert, Like

1363
01:20:57,000 --> 01:20:59,120
Speaker 1: I feel like it connects back to what you were

1364
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:03,400
Speaker 1: saying earlier than I of like the specificity of this

1365
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:07,200
Speaker 1: is a relationship between sisters, and the fact that it

1366
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:11,679
Speaker 1: doesn't shy away in vague ify that relationship strengthens the

1367
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:14,200
Speaker 1: universal connection that people are going to take away from it,

1368
01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:16,599
Speaker 1: because I was thinking about my little brother when I

1369
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 1: was watching this, and it was like, well, obviously, like

1370
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:24,280
Speaker 1: we're not you know, like both like let's pe together

1371
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:28,240
Speaker 1: because that's just not what our relationship is. But but

1372
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:32,880
Speaker 1: the dynamics and the you know, fierce loyalty that many

1373
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:36,479
Speaker 1: people feel towards their siblings and the like that's such

1374
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 1: a like Justine fox up so bad and Alex welcomes

1375
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:46,320
Speaker 1: her back and Alex murders just a best friend, and like,

1376
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 1: you know, that's an individual journey of can I forgive

1377
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:53,280
Speaker 1: and forget? But like the whole like concept of like

1378
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:56,280
Speaker 1: the thing that binds them and the reason that they're

1379
01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 1: fucking up is this generational problem that they both have.

1380
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 1: And they're both individuals, they have different personalities, they have

1381
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 1: this very sibling e dynamic, but they're kind of like

1382
01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:12,080
Speaker 1: haunted by this same generational issue in different ways. And

1383
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 1: it seems like that's that, and also like the just

1384
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:19,519
Speaker 1: intense bond that a lot of siblings have is what

1385
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:25,080
Speaker 1: makes them able to forgive each other and navigate things.

1386
01:22:25,120 --> 01:22:27,599
Speaker 1: I just I thought it was so again, just like

1387
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:32,679
Speaker 1: making cannibalism, the generational trauma is such a weird, cool

1388
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:37,479
Speaker 1: creative decision right down to like I really love the

1389
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:39,840
Speaker 1: detail of when they're saying bye to each other, when

1390
01:22:40,439 --> 01:22:45,519
Speaker 1: Alex is in jail and Alex flips off Justine and

1391
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:48,919
Speaker 1: you see the stump of her finger and then Justine

1392
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:54,280
Speaker 1: like pushes the scar like against the window, and it's

1393
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:57,600
Speaker 1: so intimate, and then they're like having this little interaction

1394
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:00,760
Speaker 1: even if it's like uncomfortable and the rely eving, but

1395
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:04,120
Speaker 1: also that they're deliberately like showing each other like you

1396
01:23:04,160 --> 01:23:07,360
Speaker 1: did this to me, ha ha. That I think only

1397
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:10,479
Speaker 1: exists the amount of times I've like waxed poetic with

1398
01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 1: my brother about the like dangerous ship that they used

1399
01:23:14,640 --> 01:23:17,720
Speaker 1: to do with my tiny young body because they were

1400
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:19,640
Speaker 1: like ten years older than me, and they would like

1401
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:21,760
Speaker 1: stuff me into toy boxes and push me down the

1402
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 1: stairs or like let's go sledding. Oops, Vanessa slid into

1403
01:23:25,240 --> 01:23:27,040
Speaker 1: the road, and then now we're like ha, ha ha,

1404
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:31,040
Speaker 1: you almost killed me, And I'm like, yeah, because we

1405
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 1: were weird children around each other. We're so fucked up,

1406
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:38,840
Speaker 1: we like love each other fiercely and put each other

1407
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:43,040
Speaker 1: through the wringer because like we're getting our baby brains

1408
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:46,479
Speaker 1: cooked up into adult brains and then just acting out

1409
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:50,240
Speaker 1: on each other because we in our heads default to

1410
01:23:50,360 --> 01:23:53,840
Speaker 1: like they're going to be there forever. They can't unsibling me,

1411
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:57,280
Speaker 1: so they will be far more forgiving of my worst

1412
01:23:57,360 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 1: moments than anyone else. But instead that means we put

1413
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 1: each other through more hell than we put anyone else

1414
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:06,280
Speaker 1: with the right, like, yeah, the the highs are higher,

1415
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:11,559
Speaker 1: the lows are lower, and it's just so siblings, Like

1416
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:14,599
Speaker 1: siblings are inherently fucked up in the way they treat

1417
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:19,080
Speaker 1: each other throughout their lives. Like, show me a healthy

1418
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 1: sibling dynamic, you just like it doesn't exist, and then

1419
01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:27,639
Speaker 1: birth order makes hierarchy. Yeah, oh yeah, that's just built in,

1420
01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:30,040
Speaker 1: so you just have this little cast system coated into

1421
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 1: you in your house where it's just like, all right,

1422
01:24:32,320 --> 01:24:35,320
Speaker 1: Louise got cheerios before me, so that clearly means fuck me.

1423
01:24:35,439 --> 01:24:38,840
Speaker 1: I guess this is why I was just like God,

1424
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:41,280
Speaker 1: the idea of parenting is so stressful because it's just

1425
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:45,080
Speaker 1: a small, perceived slight that sends your children on a

1426
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 1: careening like freight train of emotional distress because it's like, well,

1427
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:55,480
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean it was and and the betrayals

1428
01:24:55,600 --> 01:24:59,200
Speaker 1: that Alex and Justine make to each other are severe.

1429
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:02,000
Speaker 1: But again, I feel like it just like speaks to

1430
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:06,920
Speaker 1: the writing of the movie that I never questioned why

1431
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:09,599
Speaker 1: would they still defend each other in this situation? Like

1432
01:25:09,720 --> 01:25:12,280
Speaker 1: it's so obvious why they would. And it doesn't mean

1433
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:16,080
Speaker 1: that it's morally right or that it's but it's like,

1434
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:18,599
Speaker 1: of course they're going to be there for each other.

1435
01:25:18,840 --> 01:25:21,880
Speaker 1: Who else are they going to talk to about this

1436
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:25,040
Speaker 1: awful thing that exists in both of them? And who

1437
01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:28,599
Speaker 1: else do you have that kind of intense bond and

1438
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:33,439
Speaker 1: loyalty and love for in their lot? Like it's it's them.

1439
01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:37,040
Speaker 1: So yeah. Again, It's like another thing that I feel

1440
01:25:37,040 --> 01:25:41,439
Speaker 1: like is not really explored in many movies this effectively. Yeah,

1441
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 1: for sure, it's it's usually far more traveling pansy Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, wow.

1442
01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:53,000
Speaker 1: I love that as an adjective. Traveling panty, traveling pansy. Um,

1443
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:55,280
Speaker 1: does anyone have anything else they want to talk about.

1444
01:25:57,080 --> 01:26:01,400
Speaker 1: I do want to say the soundtrack is amazing, great

1445
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:05,200
Speaker 1: soundtrack rate, score, the music is incredible. I wanted to

1446
01:26:05,240 --> 01:26:11,519
Speaker 1: share a quote from Julia from this Guardian article slash

1447
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:16,439
Speaker 1: interview that I referenced before, in which she says, quote,

1448
01:26:17,080 --> 01:26:21,200
Speaker 1: I didn't want to glamorize anything, especially with the girl's bodies.

1449
01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:23,960
Speaker 1: A body is a body, and every movie we see

1450
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:26,679
Speaker 1: women have to be beautiful and fit or whatever the hell,

1451
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,960
Speaker 1: and they have to fit a certain box. And no

1452
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:34,400
Speaker 1: women fart, poop, pe burp. This is why you can

1453
01:26:34,439 --> 01:26:37,080
Speaker 1: relate to them, because they are not these heavenly creatures.

1454
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:40,040
Speaker 1: They are real people with real feelings. And when they

1455
01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:43,280
Speaker 1: go down, they go down. This is something we don't

1456
01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:46,559
Speaker 1: see enough of. Always in movies, when people cry, they

1457
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 1: cry like this. And then apparently she uh, Julia mimes

1458
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:57,280
Speaker 1: a sorrowful weep um saying like St Mary crying, We're

1459
01:26:57,320 --> 01:27:02,760
Speaker 1: all equals with our bodies. So fun golf. I love her,

1460
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:08,160
Speaker 1: Oh my God, like that she wonderful. That said, like

1461
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:11,679
Speaker 1: I wish that there was like more. It's it's interesting

1462
01:27:11,720 --> 01:27:16,759
Speaker 1: for a movie that acknowledges medical issues as it pertains

1463
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:19,720
Speaker 1: to fatness in the size of your body. It is

1464
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:26,400
Speaker 1: like still very very like generally white thin movie, which

1465
01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:29,280
Speaker 1: again I wonder what the because it seems like Julia

1466
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:33,320
Speaker 1: Ducurno is very aware of these issues and very conscious

1467
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 1: that feels strongly about them. So I do under like

1468
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:37,840
Speaker 1: kind of what the casting stuff is. It does seem

1469
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:41,440
Speaker 1: like particularly with the lead, this is like a longstanding

1470
01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:45,360
Speaker 1: working relationship between the actress and the director. But I

1471
01:27:45,400 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 1: mean that was like kind of the only thing in

1472
01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:52,240
Speaker 1: this like the only thing in this movie that I

1473
01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:55,519
Speaker 1: was like, is this a France thing? Like, but there's

1474
01:27:55,600 --> 01:27:58,720
Speaker 1: diversity in France like that, it's not a France thing.

1475
01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:04,040
Speaker 1: So I was curious about that, and I'm I'm really

1476
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:08,120
Speaker 1: curious to see more of what Julia Ducarno does and

1477
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:11,800
Speaker 1: how she like what do you do after raw? Like

1478
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:17,920
Speaker 1: that's get it get pregnant by a car? I'm so

1479
01:28:18,040 --> 01:28:21,679
Speaker 1: excited to see it. Is that what titan Nick is about?

1480
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:27,000
Speaker 1: So the premise is a young girl who gets into

1481
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:31,720
Speaker 1: a horrific car accident and instead of like you know,

1482
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:36,080
Speaker 1: growing closer to her parents and seeking comfort there um,

1483
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:40,040
Speaker 1: she has like this crazy scarner head and instead becomes

1484
01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:43,959
Speaker 1: obsessed with cars with a desire to romance them. Um

1485
01:28:44,120 --> 01:28:47,760
Speaker 1: becomes an erotic car dancer and gets pregnant by one

1486
01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:50,120
Speaker 1: and then breaks the law and has to run on

1487
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:53,439
Speaker 1: the lamb by dressing up as a pre pubescent boy

1488
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:56,400
Speaker 1: and convincing a man that she is his long lost son.

1489
01:28:57,000 --> 01:29:01,000
Speaker 1: Like she takes big swings and people love this movie.

1490
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:04,639
Speaker 1: Like all the early reviews of this movie where like, Wow,

1491
01:29:04,760 --> 01:29:09,599
Speaker 1: she pulled it off. I'm like she did that? How

1492
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:14,000
Speaker 1: that concept? Oh do you execute that? And here we

1493
01:29:14,040 --> 01:29:17,320
Speaker 1: are talking about a movie in which a girl plucks

1494
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:21,160
Speaker 1: fat from a lip out of her teeth and eats it,

1495
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:24,320
Speaker 1: and we're like, remember when we all got our periods?

1496
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:31,200
Speaker 1: So now I'm like I have to see whatever this is. Right.

1497
01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:37,720
Speaker 1: By the way, the actor who plays Adrian is Arab, Yes,

1498
01:29:38,280 --> 01:29:40,559
Speaker 1: but I think he comply. I mean, it's not it's not.

1499
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:43,120
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's a completely white cast, but it

1500
01:29:43,240 --> 01:29:46,920
Speaker 1: is a close to whitecast. Yeah, that is true, but

1501
01:29:47,080 --> 01:29:51,679
Speaker 1: just wanted to acknowledge that. Yeah, does anyone have anything

1502
01:29:51,720 --> 01:29:57,080
Speaker 1: else to mention? I'm also sorry I'm on the Wikipedia

1503
01:29:57,160 --> 01:30:04,400
Speaker 1: because I've been trying to not spoil Titan Titane for myself,

1504
01:30:04,479 --> 01:30:07,520
Speaker 1: like even pre knowing we were doing raw for this episode.

1505
01:30:08,040 --> 01:30:10,240
Speaker 1: It just the premise was so intriguing to me. The

1506
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:11,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't want to know anything, I just

1507
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:14,160
Speaker 1: want to see it. But I'm on the Wikipedia page,

1508
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:19,879
Speaker 1: so turn off the podcast. But Garant Marillier, who played Justine,

1509
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:25,600
Speaker 1: is credited on the Wikipedia page for Titan as a

1510
01:30:25,720 --> 01:30:32,280
Speaker 1: character named Justine. What so this might be an expanded

1511
01:30:32,439 --> 01:30:38,599
Speaker 1: universe thing, like I don't know, the Chrono extended universe.

1512
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:41,920
Speaker 1: How fucking cool would that be if this is like,

1513
01:30:42,200 --> 01:30:47,600
Speaker 1: oh my building out an outour freaky universe. Oh, I

1514
01:30:47,640 --> 01:30:50,479
Speaker 1: would be so excited. I'm very excited to see this movie. Now. Sorry,

1515
01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:53,880
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to like, but yeah, she's credited as

1516
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:57,400
Speaker 1: Justine again. What I'm going to look out for that.

1517
01:30:57,439 --> 01:30:59,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to look out for that. That's so exciting.

1518
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:04,080
Speaker 1: I'm very health Okay, So that was all I had

1519
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:05,840
Speaker 1: to say about this movie. I love it so much.

1520
01:31:06,800 --> 01:31:11,280
Speaker 1: The movie, of course, passes the Bechdel test. Justine talks

1521
01:31:11,320 --> 01:31:15,599
Speaker 1: to Alex quite a lot, as well as to her mother,

1522
01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:21,080
Speaker 1: and many, if not most of those conversations past. They

1523
01:31:21,080 --> 01:31:25,679
Speaker 1: do talk about Audrean sometimes, but they're mostly talking about

1524
01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:32,520
Speaker 1: vet school and eating people cannibalism, so at a passes

1525
01:31:33,800 --> 01:31:36,680
Speaker 1: as far as our nipple scales zero to five nipples.

1526
01:31:36,720 --> 01:31:43,120
Speaker 1: Based on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens um,

1527
01:31:43,160 --> 01:31:47,839
Speaker 1: I would give this like a four and a half.

1528
01:31:48,840 --> 01:31:52,439
Speaker 1: I think there's just like a few little things that

1529
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:56,519
Speaker 1: pinned for me that we mentioned throughout the episode, But

1530
01:31:56,640 --> 01:32:01,080
Speaker 1: by and large, I appreciate a movie is not afraid

1531
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:07,040
Speaker 1: to explore via cannibalism slash cannibalism as a metaphor, a

1532
01:32:07,080 --> 01:32:10,040
Speaker 1: movie that is not afraid to explore parts of her

1533
01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:15,360
Speaker 1: life and body and sexuality that feel extremely authentic to

1534
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:19,200
Speaker 1: that experience, even if a lot of what she's doing

1535
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:23,439
Speaker 1: is like fucking up and making mistakes and like being

1536
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:29,599
Speaker 1: gross and like surprise, biting people and you know, stuff

1537
01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:37,240
Speaker 1: like that, Because even though that that's a new one, um,

1538
01:32:37,280 --> 01:32:42,040
Speaker 1: Because even though that behavior is not okay, and kissing

1539
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:45,479
Speaker 1: and biting people without their consent and pushing people past

1540
01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:50,160
Speaker 1: their comfort level are all wrong, we relate to the

1541
01:32:50,240 --> 01:32:54,479
Speaker 1: humanity of her experience in a way that most movies

1542
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:58,120
Speaker 1: don't even attempt to do or couldn't do, because they're

1543
01:32:58,160 --> 01:33:02,040
Speaker 1: made by people who simply don't understand. So it's just

1544
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:05,839
Speaker 1: very refreshing too to watch a movie written and directed

1545
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:12,200
Speaker 1: by a woman that is not afraid to explore the

1546
01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:19,000
Speaker 1: messier side of life. And cannibalis, Yeah, the messy side

1547
01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:22,000
Speaker 1: of cannibalism. That's a good that's a good elevator pitch

1548
01:33:22,040 --> 01:33:26,640
Speaker 1: for this as a like a rob com cannibalism, it

1549
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:30,960
Speaker 1: gets messy. What a great tagline. Um. So yeah. I

1550
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:33,200
Speaker 1: think that there's a lot of cool things happening in

1551
01:33:33,240 --> 01:33:37,559
Speaker 1: the movie as far as like what it's examining, and

1552
01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 1: you know, different interpretations, as far as like symbolic allegorical stuff.

1553
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:45,880
Speaker 1: And I think it's really cool. And I will give

1554
01:33:45,960 --> 01:33:50,759
Speaker 1: the movie four and a half nipples. I'll give uh

1555
01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:57,040
Speaker 1: one to Julia Ducarno, one to each Justine, Alex and

1556
01:33:57,439 --> 01:34:00,240
Speaker 1: their mother, and then I'll give my half nipple to

1557
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:03,880
Speaker 1: the poor dog Quickie who had to be put down.

1558
01:34:04,439 --> 01:34:08,280
Speaker 1: I'm really sad about that, poor Quickie. I was sad

1559
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:10,960
Speaker 1: about Quickie to forgot, although it led to one of

1560
01:34:10,960 --> 01:34:13,599
Speaker 1: my favorite interactions, which was her reading the text from

1561
01:34:13,680 --> 01:34:16,439
Speaker 1: Quickie and not even responding to the dog dying and

1562
01:34:16,520 --> 01:34:23,160
Speaker 1: immediately going, why does my sister have your number? Loved it.

1563
01:34:23,160 --> 01:34:27,320
Speaker 1: It's this movie is wonderful. Okay, I'll meet you at

1564
01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:29,439
Speaker 1: four and a half. It's like the rare one that

1565
01:34:29,479 --> 01:34:32,639
Speaker 1: it's like it extremely passes the vectil test, and it's

1566
01:34:32,680 --> 01:34:35,040
Speaker 1: also like very near a movie that is like I

1567
01:34:35,120 --> 01:34:37,760
Speaker 1: just would watch this a million times. I want to

1568
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:41,160
Speaker 1: show this movie to everybody. I'm very excited to preach

1569
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:44,680
Speaker 1: the gospel of Julia Ducarno. I wish, I mean, there

1570
01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:48,080
Speaker 1: are certain things that I just was like curious about

1571
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:50,719
Speaker 1: I wish were explored a little more. I do wish

1572
01:34:50,760 --> 01:34:55,479
Speaker 1: that there was more diversity in terms of race and

1573
01:34:55,600 --> 01:35:00,559
Speaker 1: body in the movie. But this movie fucking rocks, Like

1574
01:35:00,640 --> 01:35:05,200
Speaker 1: it's just so good, and I feel like it's for

1575
01:35:05,240 --> 01:35:07,639
Speaker 1: so many reasons that we've described. I think it's so

1576
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:12,120
Speaker 1: wonderful and cool and should not feel this rare or

1577
01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:15,400
Speaker 1: unique to find a woman at the center of a

1578
01:35:15,479 --> 01:35:20,400
Speaker 1: story who is very you know, specific in her experience,

1579
01:35:20,720 --> 01:35:24,599
Speaker 1: like in this, like it's very like she couldn't be

1580
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:28,080
Speaker 1: anyone else but who she is. She's not a like,

1581
01:35:28,479 --> 01:35:32,400
Speaker 1: you know, focus tested, vague ified protagonists that I think

1582
01:35:32,439 --> 01:35:35,720
Speaker 1: we see very very often when we see female protagonists.

1583
01:35:35,800 --> 01:35:38,599
Speaker 1: Right now, I think that like it would be whatever

1584
01:35:38,680 --> 01:35:40,800
Speaker 1: however you feel about it, It's like it would be

1585
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:43,920
Speaker 1: naive to say that Black Widow wasn't focused, tested to

1586
01:35:43,960 --> 01:35:47,519
Speaker 1: relate to as many people as hugely possible. This is

1587
01:35:47,560 --> 01:35:51,679
Speaker 1: a character who is who she is, but because of

1588
01:35:52,360 --> 01:35:57,040
Speaker 1: how skillful and thoughtful and risky and cool the writing is,

1589
01:35:57,680 --> 01:36:01,160
Speaker 1: anyone can put themselves in her place because what she's

1590
01:36:01,240 --> 01:36:05,880
Speaker 1: feeling is becoming an adult struggling with her relationship with

1591
01:36:05,920 --> 01:36:09,920
Speaker 1: her family, and like, we've all done eating a person

1592
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:15,240
Speaker 1: here and there, so it's great. I just I'm so

1593
01:36:15,280 --> 01:36:17,880
Speaker 1: excited about this movie. I'm so happy that's in my

1594
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:20,680
Speaker 1: life now. Four and a half nipples, I'm going to

1595
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:24,719
Speaker 1: give all of them to Julia Ducarno. I'm so excited

1596
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:29,639
Speaker 1: to see her next movie, Vanessa, what say you? I'm

1597
01:36:29,680 --> 01:36:31,200
Speaker 1: also going to do the four and a half because

1598
01:36:31,240 --> 01:36:35,360
Speaker 1: I love this movie. I love this movie and I

1599
01:36:35,400 --> 01:36:39,519
Speaker 1: am so happy that it exists and just exist as

1600
01:36:39,560 --> 01:36:42,280
Speaker 1: like a testament to like, why you want to diversify

1601
01:36:42,280 --> 01:36:44,479
Speaker 1: who's behind the lens because the stories are just more

1602
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:49,000
Speaker 1: interesting and the perspectives are rare. The half star is

1603
01:36:49,000 --> 01:36:51,120
Speaker 1: for pretty much the same reasons as y'all, and that

1604
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:54,320
Speaker 1: um I would like especially like to see both more

1605
01:36:54,320 --> 01:36:56,600
Speaker 1: diversity and body diversity, because like, if you're going to

1606
01:36:56,680 --> 01:36:58,840
Speaker 1: mention like a fat person and a fat person's plate,

1607
01:36:58,880 --> 01:37:01,599
Speaker 1: I'd like to see one. It's it's Chekhov's fat person

1608
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:06,600
Speaker 1: at this point, like let let me, let me have one. Um.

1609
01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:10,599
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's such a concise, well

1610
01:37:10,880 --> 01:37:13,400
Speaker 1: told story that doesn't really waste any time, but like

1611
01:37:13,520 --> 01:37:16,719
Speaker 1: luxuriate's where it needs to. And I love this movie

1612
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:21,040
Speaker 1: and I love how specific and odd and real this

1613
01:37:21,200 --> 01:37:24,200
Speaker 1: character is, which, by the way, if that's the kind

1614
01:37:24,240 --> 01:37:26,360
Speaker 1: of character that interests you. On HBO, Max Soon is

1615
01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:28,080
Speaker 1: a movie called We're All Going to the World's Fair

1616
01:37:28,200 --> 01:37:32,200
Speaker 1: that has a teenage girl that is the closest to

1617
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:35,920
Speaker 1: any teenager that I've ever felt familiarity with. I feel

1618
01:37:36,160 --> 01:37:38,600
Speaker 1: more like her than any like glistening hair teen and

1619
01:37:38,680 --> 01:37:41,000
Speaker 1: anything that's ever existed. And it's one of my favorite

1620
01:37:41,320 --> 01:37:44,559
Speaker 1: horror movies of last year. Um I literally cried because

1621
01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:46,400
Speaker 1: I was just so excited at something like it existed.

1622
01:37:46,760 --> 01:37:48,479
Speaker 1: And that's how I felt the first time I saw

1623
01:37:48,640 --> 01:37:54,320
Speaker 1: ras so like definitely for a half stars. Yes, love it. Vanessa,

1624
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:58,400
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us truly, Fripple, thank you for

1625
01:37:58,520 --> 01:38:02,240
Speaker 1: bringing us one of our new favorite movies. Thank you.

1626
01:38:02,479 --> 01:38:05,639
Speaker 1: I love being on here. Yell are amazing. You are

1627
01:38:05,960 --> 01:38:09,840
Speaker 1: tell us where people can check out your stuff. Um,

1628
01:38:09,960 --> 01:38:12,840
Speaker 1: you can find me. I've recently changed my Twitter handles,

1629
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:15,360
Speaker 1: so you can find me under An E. S. S.

1630
01:38:15,400 --> 01:38:20,000
Speaker 1: Guerrero on Twitter and S and S. Guerrero on Instagram,

1631
01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:22,960
Speaker 1: and starting October you can find me on shutters Behind

1632
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:27,160
Speaker 1: the Monsters. Um, yeah, I think us about it. Amazing.

1633
01:38:27,320 --> 01:38:30,240
Speaker 1: Thank you again for being here. Come back anytime. Oh

1634
01:38:30,240 --> 01:38:31,760
Speaker 1: I have a podcast. Oh my god, I'm so sorry.

1635
01:38:32,680 --> 01:38:34,360
Speaker 1: I was like both like, wait, hold on, I'm literally

1636
01:38:34,360 --> 01:38:36,080
Speaker 1: about it. Edit right now. Um, I have a podcast.

1637
01:38:36,120 --> 01:38:38,200
Speaker 1: It's called Kicking and Screaming. It's you can find it

1638
01:38:38,280 --> 01:38:41,200
Speaker 1: under kick Screen Pod and it's where I specifically talk

1639
01:38:41,240 --> 01:38:43,759
Speaker 1: about horror and martial arts because they're my two favorite

1640
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:46,800
Speaker 1: genres and I think they're very frequently discredited and are

1641
01:38:46,840 --> 01:38:49,080
Speaker 1: also one of the few industries in which marginalized people

1642
01:38:49,160 --> 01:38:51,240
Speaker 1: can get their foot in the door. So I love

1643
01:38:51,280 --> 01:38:53,160
Speaker 1: talking about it and if you like about those like

1644
01:38:53,240 --> 01:38:57,040
Speaker 1: those genres, definitely check it out when you get a chance. Yes. Absolutely.

1645
01:38:58,360 --> 01:39:02,120
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram. At Bechtel

1646
01:39:02,280 --> 01:39:09,280
Speaker 1: Cast you can subscribe to our Matreon at Patreon dot

1647
01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:12,479
Speaker 1: com slash Bechtel Cast where you get to bonus episodes

1648
01:39:12,520 --> 01:39:15,880
Speaker 1: every month plus access to the back catalog, and that

1649
01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:19,360
Speaker 1: is five dollars a month. You can also get our

1650
01:39:19,400 --> 01:39:22,320
Speaker 1: merch on t public dot com. At t public dot com,

1651
01:39:22,360 --> 01:39:28,480
Speaker 1: slash the beck Doel Cast for all of your merchandising needs.

1652
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:31,360
Speaker 1: And if we don't see you on the merch store,

1653
01:39:32,280 --> 01:39:40,479
Speaker 1: well we're going to eat you. Yeah bye,