1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: The Indiana Dunes disappearance is one of the lesser known 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: cases in American true crime. One day in July nineteen 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: sixty six, three women went for a day at the 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: beach along Lake Michigan in northwest Indiana, not too far 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: from Chicago. They vanished that day, and no trace of 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: them has turned up since. It's one of our sadder 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: true crime episodes because not only are the women presumed dead, 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: their families never got even a hint of resolution. Listen 9 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: to this one and see what you think happened. 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of Iheartradios 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 2: How Stuff Works. 12 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's 13 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's Josh T guests producing away 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: over there, and that makes this Stuff you Should Know 15 00:00:53,120 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: super duper mysterious mystery edition. That's right, this is a 16 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: super mysterious one. Super duper you could. 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 3: Say, this is a good one. I never heard of it. 18 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 1: I hadn't either. 19 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 4: Maybe we should have a spin off show just about 20 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 4: mysteries and missing persons. 21 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: I've long thought that. Yeah, oh yeah, but. 22 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 3: Then everyone's like, just put him on Stuff you Should Know. 23 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, every once in a while, pepper it we. 24 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 3: Gotta spin it out, right, spin it off? 25 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: They said? The Cleveland Show. 26 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 4: Oh man, I never watched that was a good I 27 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 4: never watched it either. You weren't a Family Guy fan, 28 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 4: that were you? 29 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: I mean it's fine, but no, I wasn't a fan. Yeah, 30 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: all right. What about Laverne and Shirley? What is this 31 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: Laverne and Shirley. 32 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 3: Spin off from Happy Days? 33 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: Right? That's rights? 34 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 3: Right? 35 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: Oh, let's do this. 36 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 3: And Mork and Mindy spun off too? 37 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: Uh? What is this? Too Close for Comfort? 38 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 3: Was that as good off? 39 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: You got this man? 40 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 3: Too close for comfort? He wasn't. No, I don't know 41 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 3: what was it? 42 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm sorry. 43 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 3: I was about to say, I don't think that's right. 44 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: What is this the Ropers? 45 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 3: Oh? Well, sure, Freese Company? 46 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: Okay? 47 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 3: What is this? After match? 48 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 1: I thought? I thought Too Close for Comfort was a spinoff? 49 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: I think it might be. 50 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 4: Well, my first guess was it was might have been 51 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 4: Ted Knight's character from the Mary Tyler Moore Show. But 52 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 4: that's not true because and too Close for Comfort he 53 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 4: was a cartoonist, that's right, remember, Yeah, And the only 54 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 4: thing I remember, well, I remember a lot about the 55 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 4: show because I loved it. I was in love with 56 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 4: those daughters. 57 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: Man, I don't remember them. 58 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 4: I mean that was the whole setup, is that their 59 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 4: daughters lived in the same house or next door or 60 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 4: something cause trouble. Yeah, you know, they were just a 61 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 4: couple of hell raisers, hell raising beauties. 62 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 3: And who was the guy that was so great? 63 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: I think you're talking about Charles in Charge now. 64 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 3: I'm thinking of Too Close for Comfort. 65 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 4: But he was a cartoonist and he would wear college 66 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 4: sweatshirts as part of his character. And he wore a 67 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 4: Georgia Bulldogs sweat shirt one time, and I. 68 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 3: Was like, I thought it was the coolest thing ever. 69 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 3: It's like, how did they know that that's a thing? 70 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: All Right? You're like, I'm basically on TV right now. 71 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 1: That's what? Oh? Man Monroe? 72 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 4: That was him, the Monroe character, Jim J. Bullock, Ted Knight, Yeah, no, 73 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 4: Ted Knight was the lead. 74 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: The main guy, Jim J. Bullock. Man, what was he? 75 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:22,119 Speaker 1: Hollywood Squares? 76 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 3: Sure? Among other things like Too Close for Comfort? 77 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: Does does this kind of a tangent if we haven't 78 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: actually gotten started. This is a preamble, okay, preamble, Yeah, 79 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: roughly done. 80 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is a good one. And you put this together? 81 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 4: Where'd you get most of the stuff? 82 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: Wrote it myself. Oh wow, there's one part that I 83 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: was like, here, this is just easier if I copy 84 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: and paste from a Chicago Tribune article from nineteen eighty seven. 85 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 3: I read that one. 86 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: It's very good, there's That's one of the things about 87 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: this case is anyone who kind of gets involved in this, 88 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: we'll see there is not a lot of information out there. 89 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, and funny, And one of the biggest mysteries of 90 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 4: this whole thing is what kind of boat that was, 91 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 4: which we'll get to. 92 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: That was my bad. 93 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 4: Well, no, man, I saw it in a couple of 94 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 4: other articles. It called this boat a trimaran, which is 95 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 4: very much a catamaran. 96 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: Right, They made the same so they were just yes, okay, yeah, 97 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: because it's same thing. I saw a tryhold. I was like, oh, 98 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: it's a tricat, which is a sailboat, and that's what 99 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: I thought it was. No, there's a trhold speed boat 100 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: called the runabout that was kind of big in the sixties. 101 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 4: Well, more specifically, it's a tryholed run about. A runabout 102 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily mean it has three holes. Okay, but those 103 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 4: are my favorite boats in the world. Are these fifties 104 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 4: and sixties fiberglass runabouts. 105 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 3: This is their amazing. 106 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: Fifties and sixties runabout of all time. Yeah, with three holes. 107 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: He thought one was crazy. Just get ready for three. 108 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 4: So yeah, the boat will come up and I had 109 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 4: to mark out try cat just about seventy five places. 110 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: I'm very sorry, it was yeah, my bad. 111 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 4: So what we're talking about here finally now is the 112 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 4: disappearance of three young women in suburban Chicago in the 113 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 4: mid nineteen sixties at Indiana Dunes State Park on Lake Michigan. 114 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. Now it's Indiana Dunes National Seashore, National Lakes Shore, 115 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: National Lake Shore, but at the time it was a 116 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: state park. And this is Saturday, July second, nineteen sixty six. 117 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:31,799 Speaker 3: That's right. 118 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 4: The three women there was a twenty one year old 119 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 4: named Patricia Blow. 120 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so she went. 121 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 4: She got in her car, which was an eleven year 122 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 4: old at this point, Buick Sedan nineteen fifty five. Buick 123 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 4: went to pick up her friends Anne Miller at her 124 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 4: house she lived with her folks, and then to her 125 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 4: other friend, Renee Brule, who was the only one who 126 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 4: was married, went to pick her up at her house. 127 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 4: They were nineteen and twenty and they were. 128 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: Like nineteen and twenty one. 129 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 4: I think one on was twenty two at least nineteen 130 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 4: twenty and twenty. 131 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: One, So was that right? Okay? 132 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 4: But those are nitpicky details. Sure, they were all late 133 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:12,239 Speaker 4: teen's early twenties. 134 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: And wait a minute, did you just call me nitpicky? 135 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 3: No? No, no, no, I think you did. 136 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: No, okay, and has called me a liar on National 137 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: TV TV. I think you just did. 138 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 4: Anne and Patricia were friends. They were horse riders, and 139 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 4: they were friends from these horse stables. But they were 140 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 4: all three buddies, not since grade school, but for the 141 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 4: last couple of years, it seems like, right. 142 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, And they all lived around Chicago, and that's where 143 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: they were traveling about sixty miles eighty miles I've seen 144 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: both to Indiana Dune State Park to just basically go 145 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: hang out on the beach. That day again, it was Saturday, 146 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: it was the July fourth weekend. 147 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 3: It was out it yeah, super crowded. 148 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:53,799 Speaker 1: They were just going to the beach to have some fun. 149 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: Most people think they got to the beach by ten 150 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: am park. The buick hiked over the dunes on the 151 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: kind of rickety boardwalk over to the beach and set 152 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: up camp. I think about one hundred yards from shore. 153 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,119 Speaker 1: That's a pretty substantial beach. 154 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 3: Wow. 155 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: Either there, they hiked one hundred yards and set up 156 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: near the beach. It might be the ladder of the 157 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: two that sounds more right. And on this weekend again, 158 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: because it was July fourth weekend, the beach was just 159 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: absolutely packed. And this is Lake Michigan, which is a 160 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: pretty big lake in this beach itself, for this park itself, 161 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: I think it's like twenty six miles of shoreline or 162 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: something like that. But even still there's like nine thousand 163 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: people on the beach that weekend. 164 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, I saw nine to ten thousand people, four to 165 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 4: five thousand cars in the parking lots, and four to 166 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 4: six thousand boats in the water. 167 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 3: So packed, just packed. It's like Jaws or. 168 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 4: Something up in there, right Amity Island, fourth of July. 169 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: So the Renee and and Patty set up shop, put 170 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: down their beach blanket, just kind of close by to 171 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: this teenage couple who are like their beach neighbors. 172 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 3: You know, they mentioned everyone was pretty close. 173 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: Sure, kind of she elbowed a jowl and that's called sure, okay, 174 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: and this this teenage couple kind of factor in big time, 175 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: but just kind of note their presence for now. 176 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 3: That's right. 177 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: So about noon, Chuck, Well, actually, the teenage couple factor 178 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: in now. They noticed that the three women were waiting 179 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: into the water about noon, so I guess for about 180 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: two hours they were just kind of hanging out in 181 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: the sun and they got hot enough to go into 182 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: the water about noon. 183 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 3: That's right. 184 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 4: And that was the last time that this couple saw them. 185 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 4: Maybe perhaps the day went on, they never came back. 186 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 4: This teenage couple said that there's stuff still laying here. 187 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 4: You know, they may be off partying somewhere. So you know, 188 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 4: they didn't think like these three young ladies are missing 189 00:08:58,520 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 4: and perhaps murdered. 190 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: I think they were worried that their stuff might get stolen. 191 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was as innocent as that. 192 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: Ye as a teenage couple. They were about to leave, 193 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: and they didn't want to just leave it there. They 194 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: felt kind of somehow responsible for it, like you will. 195 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, which is what you did in nineteen sixty. 196 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: Six or today still if you're a decent person, that's right. 197 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 4: So they went to a ranger and they said, hey, 198 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 4: these young women were here. They left their stuff. The 199 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 4: ranger thought the same thing. He's like, well, let me 200 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 4: just take care of this stuff and collect it and 201 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 4: so it doesn't get stolen. They're probably off partying. But 202 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 4: that was the last that anyone saw these three young women. 203 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 4: No one to this day knows what happened. They vanished 204 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 4: literally without a trace. 205 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's never been any evidence of what happened to them, 206 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: No trace of them, no, nothing, nothing. From that point on, 207 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: I think we. 208 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 4: Should take an earlier break because of that dumb long preamble. Okay, 209 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 4: and this is a great little spot for a cliffhanger. 210 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: Okay, so we'll be right back, okay, Chuck. So about 211 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: eighteen hours after that park ranger collected their things that 212 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: I'd say, around dusk, a call came into Indiana Dune 213 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: State Park ranger station and it was from Harold Blaw 214 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: or Blow Patty's father, and he wanted to know if 215 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: the rangers had seen his daughter because she had been 216 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: reported missing by her family back in Chicago, like you know, 217 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: a few hours before. 218 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, So they went through her stuff, the rangers did. 219 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 4: They found a set of car keys that had a 220 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 4: little minute Illinois license plate h that matched a license 221 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 4: plate in. 222 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 3: The parking lot. 223 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, either a great coincidence where you could get those 224 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 4: custom made at some little beat shop, right, which is 225 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 4: probably what happened. So they find her car, they found 226 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 4: her buick there in the parking lot. Indiana State Police 227 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 4: say we're going to take over here because it's pretty 228 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 4: clear that this is a missing person's case. 229 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, And so they it was obvious that they had 230 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: they had never left the park, or at least they 231 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 1: hadn't left, you know, in the car, right, and they 232 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: left their car, they left their stuff. That's suddenly very 233 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: highly suspicious. The idea that they were just off partying 234 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: is suddenly kind of a tenuous theory, you know. 235 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, like left all their stuff like purses and personal stuff. 236 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: We should we should talk a little bit about that. 237 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: They left, Yeah, money in their wallets, they left their 238 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: transistor radio, they left their magazines open, they left their 239 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: suntan lotion. It seemed like the way they left their 240 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: stuff that they were planning on just getting into the 241 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: water and then coming back from the water. And then 242 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: that was that. There didn't seem to be any kind 243 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: of forethought to their stuff, and then the fact that 244 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: their car was still there and this was a full 245 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: day after they had last been seen. It was suspicious. 246 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 4: So the like if they were going to party, they 247 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 4: would have said at least like, oh, let me grab 248 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 4: my purse. 249 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: Right by now a night had come and gone, and 250 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: the next day it was already, you know, halfway done, 251 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: and they there was nothing that they'd be a hell 252 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: of a party. Yes, So people started to get kind 253 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: of worried and they started to search the park and 254 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: they couldn't find them anywhere. And that's when the police 255 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: became involved, when it was obvious that they were no 256 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: longer in this park, even though they didn't seem to 257 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: have left, which means they just kind of vanished. 258 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, And they had a pretty big search party. They 259 00:12:55,920 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 4: had soldiers volunteering from a missile base. They had obviously 260 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 4: the sheriff, had the Civil Air Patrol get involved. I 261 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 4: think Patty's dad was a see A pilot. 262 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: He was a colonel. 263 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 4: He's a colonel in the Civil Air Patrol. Coast Guard 264 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 4: gets involved, dive teams, airplanes, helicopters. 265 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: Sheriff's posse, and horseback. 266 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, like they had people combing this area. 267 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: They went back to the nineteenth century to get people 268 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: to search. 269 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 4: They searched about two hundred and fifty cabins in the area. 270 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,079 Speaker 4: They had a dune buggy trolling the seashore at night 271 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 4: seeing if bodies were washing the lake shore. Yea, bodies 272 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 4: were washing the shore like. 273 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 1: It was a land, sea, and air search of this area, 274 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 1: and it was a pretty extensive area. But it was 275 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: a really extensive search. The big criticism that's leveled today 276 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: against the whole thing is that they're two full days 277 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: passed before the search was mounted. This is July fifth, 278 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: the first forty eight, first forty eight. Anybody who's ever 279 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: seen that show knows like those are the most critical 280 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: moments or the most critical hours in trying to solve 281 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: a case, because it gets colder and colder with every 282 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: hour that passes. Yeah, so that was a big thing. 283 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: And one of the most startling things about this case 284 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: is that search turned up nothing. Yeah, no evidence of 285 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: what happened to them at all. 286 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 287 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 4: The first little clue that they found wasn't something they 288 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 4: found while searching, but inside Renee brules purse that she 289 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 4: had left behind, that was a letter that she had 290 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 4: written to her husband that was kind of like, I've 291 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 4: had it with you. All you do is work on 292 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 4: your hot rods and party with your friends, and I'm 293 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 4: kind of done, hinting that she wanted to leave the marriage. 294 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 4: The cop, you know, obviously that's going to be a 295 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 4: suspicious kind of thing to find, say, yeah, go talk 296 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 4: to the husband. And they interviewed the husband and the family, 297 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 4: and everyone seemed to agree, like, hey, things aren't perfect, 298 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 4: but she probably wrote that letter when she was really upset. 299 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 4: She didn't give it to me. Know, I might work 300 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 4: in my hot rods a little too much, but I 301 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 4: didn't kill my wife, and our marriages is fine overall. 302 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 4: And and then the cops believed it. 303 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: Her face well, her family backed that up too. Everyone, 304 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 1: we don't have marital troubles. This seems like something Renee 305 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: would have done, and then just forgotten she even had 306 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: the note. So the cops cleared her husband of being 307 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: involved in any wrongdoing. But it raised a long standing 308 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: theory that's still around today that we'll talk about theories 309 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: later that possibly Renee ran off, and if Renee ran 310 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: off to kind of start a new life or whatever, 311 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: maybe the other women had too. 312 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 3: Maybe maybe so. 313 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 4: Another interesting thing they learned Anne Miller was by all 314 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 4: accounts about three months pregnant and had talked to her friends. 315 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: By some accounts, not all Yeah, like like her closest 316 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: friends had had said. 317 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 3: She said she was pregnant. 318 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, right, But I don't think they had like physical 319 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 4: evidence of like a pregnancy rest right, right, So they 320 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 4: said that she had friends said that she had talked 321 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 4: about having to go live in a home for unwed mothers. 322 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 3: She was sort of up against the wall with this. 323 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 4: Obviously, in the mid sixties it was not a great 324 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 4: thing to be an unwed mother. And possibly we don't 325 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 4: know this either for sure, but she was dating a 326 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 4: married man and it could have been his baby, which 327 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 4: would have been problematic as well. 328 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: Right, another good reason to r u nnoft. 329 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 3: That's right, okay, I think. 330 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: So now two of them have a motive to run 331 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: off in certain new lives. Yeah. 332 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 4: And we should also mention too that Patty was also 333 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 4: dating a married man, supposedly, and they both were buddies 334 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 4: from this horse stable. And it turns out there was 335 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 4: a real scumbag. I looked into this guy more, this 336 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 4: Silas Jane. He was a rapist. He was linked to 337 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 4: the murder of three boys. He was linked to the 338 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 4: murder of to the grind sisters. He was looked into 339 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 4: for the disappearance of some heiress in Chicago. He had 340 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 4: a hit put out on his brother. He had a 341 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 4: fire bomb planet and in this other woman's car, Like, 342 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 4: this is a bad, bad dude. And he had an 343 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 4: affiliation with this horse stable. 344 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. He his brother, I believe owned the horse stable. Yeah, 345 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: and Si was like the organized crime boss running the 346 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: criminal ring out of the horse stable. And this was 347 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: the stable that Anne and Patty rode their horses at. 348 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,239 Speaker 1: I think Anne was actually she had a job as 349 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: a horse exerciser at these stables. So they were like 350 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: really involved in like just rubbing elbows with this organized 351 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: crime ring. And so cops were like, well, wait a minute, 352 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: this is this is kind of huge, like you know, 353 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: there's as far as looking into their backgrounds. This was 354 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: the biggest red flag the cops had turned up for 355 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: sure that they were known, not that they were like 356 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: criminals themselves, but just that they were like they came 357 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: in close contact with a really dangerous, violent criminal and 358 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: his gang. 359 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. 360 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 4: And one of the later theories was that they witnessed 361 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 4: the rigging of the firebomb on this car of this woman. 362 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, they had to be taken care of. 363 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 3: But we'll get to the theories later. 364 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: Sure, So as they start, these are like the leads 365 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: that the investigation turned up. But the cops also very 366 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: wisely involved the media pretty early on, and so other 367 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: leads started to come in, and you know, there's the 368 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: usual like I saw them in Pontiac, Michigan, getting off 369 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: of a bus, or they were all in my drug 370 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: store alive and well, you know last week even though 371 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: they've been missing for three weeks, that kind of thing. 372 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 1: But there were some solid leads that came in, and 373 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 1: one of the big ones was a call from a 374 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: couple from Indianapolis who'd been on the beach that day. 375 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: And I think this is the problem with this. There's 376 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: so little writing about this that you kind of have 377 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: to piece together. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that this is 378 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: the same teenage couple that were their beach neighbors. Okay, 379 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. They said that they saw them go 380 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: into the water at noon, and while they were hanging 381 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 1: out in the water, a man probably in his early 382 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: twenties with dark wavy hair, well tanned. Came up in 383 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 1: a try hold run About ski boat, which is just 384 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: stop and look up Tryhole run About nineteen sixties and 385 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: some will come up. They're really cool looking like it 386 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: looks like a boat that Frank Sinatra would drive around 387 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: on a lake totally, and it's the kind of lake 388 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 1: that you would if you were like an early twenties 389 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: guy pick up like girls at the lake in It's 390 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: just like a fun, cool, zippy boat. 391 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 4: Yes, and side note, if you are turned on by 392 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 4: those boats like I am, you can find these things 393 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 4: and buy them for like twelve hundred bucks. 394 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 3: Yes, these old fiberglas. 395 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: And engage in mechophilia. 396 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 3: You can't. 397 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 4: You can't buy the old wooden boats. You can, but 398 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,120 Speaker 4: not for twelve hundred bucks. Oh okay, those are really expensive. 399 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: But the fiberglass ones you can get for fairly cheap. Yeah, 400 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: well that's what this guy's supposed to restore it. And 401 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: you know, sure, it's pretty cool. Yeah are you going 402 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: to Are you saying that this is what you're gonna do? Now? 403 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 4: No, I'm not saying that, but I'm just I've looked 404 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 4: into it because they're just so like stylish and cool 405 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 4: and they had like this one was turquoise interior. They 406 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 4: all have those, like like the ver sixties sort of colors. 407 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:34,919 Speaker 1: And diamond dusted upholstery. 408 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they're pretty sweet. 409 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, this is a white try hole runabout 410 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: with turquoise interior, and that this couple from Indianapolis who 411 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: called in later said that they saw these the three 412 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: women get on the boat with this guy and drive off. 413 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's a big one huge. They also get 414 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 4: another report from witnesses who said these girls came back 415 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 4: at some point, got something to eat, and we're hanging 416 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 4: out on the beach. And then a third lead that 417 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 4: came in and said they actually got on another boat, 418 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 4: this big cabin cruiser and this was about three pm 419 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 4: with three dudes and the boat didn't have a name 420 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 4: on it that we could discern. So in that first 421 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 4: week they get some boat wreckage. It washes ashore, some syrofoam, 422 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 4: some seats, an oil can looked probably like. 423 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 3: A busted or wrecked boat. 424 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 4: But the police said, listen, we got two boats we're 425 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 4: targeting here, and none of the stuff from this wreckage 426 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 4: or potential wreckage is from those boats. 427 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, they didn't think so at least, yeah, right, so, 428 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 1: but the weird thing about that boat wreckage is that 429 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: no boat was reported wreck that weekend on Lake Michigan, 430 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 1: certainly not in the area around Indiana Dune State Park. 431 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: That's right, that's a big one. And then secondly, like 432 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: you said, it doesn't seem to match any of the 433 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: boats that they were looking for. So if you step 434 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 1: back and take these leads all together, a timeline, a 435 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: possible timeline emerges where Patty and Renee wade out into 436 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: the water around noon, go on like a little pleasure 437 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: cruise on the little try hole, run about shortly after, 438 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: come back to shore, go get something to eat, hang out, 439 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: and then at three go out in another boat, a 440 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: bigger boat which is possibly also manned by the same 441 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: guy who is in the try Hole right about with 442 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: a couple of his friends. 443 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 4: And that boat definitely had the name sanded off of it, 444 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 4: which was a huge. 445 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: Red flat exactly. It's very fishy. 446 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 4: They found sandpaper and red paint on the beach that 447 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 4: had been sanded off. 448 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: So the cabin cruiser seems to have been largely disincluded 449 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: from suspicion by the cops because from what I saw 450 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: the cops talk to some guys, three guys in a 451 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: cabin cruiser who were there that day, who said. 452 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 3: We try to pick up some girls. 453 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: And they wouldn't go. One of them said I'm married, 454 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: I can't go, and none of them did. Could have 455 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: been them maybe. The other thing that really kind of 456 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: seemed to have disincluded the cabin cruiser was that someone 457 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: was actually filming. This is nineteen sixty six. They were 458 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: filming home movies on the beach that day. 459 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was inevitable, I think you think so. Yeah, sure, 460 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 4: I found it astounding. 461 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 3: Oh really yeah, no. 462 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,199 Speaker 4: Man, that's where all those old great color Super eight films. 463 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 4: I bet there were ten of those cameras on the 464 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 4: beach there probably right now. And this guy was, you know, 465 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 4: because he was filming the day. He was doing a 466 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 4: lot of panning back and forth, which was very fortuitous 467 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 4: because it kind of proved out some of this stuff 468 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 4: they saw. And of course this is old film and 469 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 4: it wasn't like zoomed in or anything, but they did 470 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 4: see what looked like these three women on this little 471 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 4: runabout just like everyone said, So that was like a 472 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 4: pretty good find. 473 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, the cabin cruiser there like it looks like there's 474 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: three women on there, and they could be similar, but 475 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 1: maybe they don't think so. So the cop seemed to 476 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: have zeroed in on that. The three women waited out 477 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: into the water around noon. The guy came up in 478 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: the Tryhole run about shortly after they got on the 479 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 1: Tryhole run about, and that was the last time anyone 480 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: saw them. 481 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, and apparently too. 482 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 4: It wouldn't have been the weirdest thing in nineteen sixty six, 483 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 4: like to go off with the stranger on his boat. 484 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 4: The thing I read said that kids are always pulling 485 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 4: up on their boat and like, hey, ladies, you know, 486 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 4: let's take a ride. That sounds like the fourth of July. 487 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 4: It's fun, it's fun. It sounds like the seventies. Yeah, yeah, 488 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 4: maybe sure, or the eighties. 489 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: Right, what about the night No, not the nineties. 490 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 3: Not the nineties. People were not boating in the nineties. Yeah. 491 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 4: Should we take another break? Oh sure, all right, let's 492 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 4: take another break. We'll talk about the further investigations, right 493 00:24:53,080 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 4: for this, So Chuck. 494 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: One more thing about the boat that we should say is, 495 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 1: despite having eyewitnesses, despite having film seemingly show them in 496 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: this boat, nothing ever came of it. 497 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, and the cops even put out the word. They 498 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 4: were like, surely someone knows this boat or this boat 499 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 4: owner to tryhul turquoise interior. Not a crazy boat, but 500 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:42,520 Speaker 4: not the most common thing in the. 501 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: World, right, But they never found it, just kind of 502 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: vanished along with the women. 503 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, so mystery novels, that's pretty good, do. 504 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: You think so? 505 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 3: Yeah? 506 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: Thanks? So the weeks and months wore on, and as 507 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: it did, like there are fewer and fewer people actively 508 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 1: looking for them. As it happens, It just happens that way. 509 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: But sadly, Harold Blow kept this vigil basically for the 510 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: rest of his life. 511 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 3: Yeah, he just kept that stuff is always just heartbreaking. 512 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know if he was if he kept 513 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: actively searching, but I know he did some traveling even 514 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: later on in life to go check out leads that 515 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: he'd heard about. He kept in contact with cops and 516 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: reporters who were working the case, and even afterward, after 517 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,959 Speaker 1: other groups stopped searching, he chartered his own plane so 518 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: that he could fly reconnaissance flights looking for evidence. Yeah, 519 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: all to nothing. He never found any trace of his 520 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: daughter or what happened, and he was convinced that all 521 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: of them were dead or they were being held against 522 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: their will. 523 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:48,239 Speaker 3: Right he was. 524 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 4: He was like my daughter, you know, he said, we're 525 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 4: not overbearing parents. He's like, she's got all the freedom 526 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 4: in the world do what she wants. She wouldn't have 527 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 4: to run away because like. 528 00:26:59,040 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 3: We're the coolest. 529 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 4: Basically, there was a psychic that got in touch, and 530 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 4: this is pretty interesting. A psychic said, I visualize a 531 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 4: cabin on Lake Michigan, not too far from the beach, 532 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 4: blanket with dark colored sand, rickety wooden stairs up from 533 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 4: the beach. The cabin's on a bluff, and it has 534 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 4: a lawn chair outside with its bottom out. One of 535 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 4: the cops investigated, drove as far as he could drive, 536 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 4: then did some hiking and found a cabin that met 537 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 4: this exact description, right down to the chair with the 538 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 4: bottom rotted out. 539 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:35,160 Speaker 1: And this was nine years later. 540 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you hear stuff like that, You're like, man, 541 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 4: you know, I don't believe in psychics calling the cops 542 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 4: with clues being super accurate. But it turns out there 543 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 4: was no body there because she said to dig, and 544 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 4: they dug for three days and found nothing. But unless 545 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 4: it was a prank, it was a weirdly eerily accurate description. 546 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I mean, if you have an old abandoned. 547 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 4: Cottage there, like a fifty to fifty chancer is gonna 548 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 4: be a lawn chair with the bottom. 549 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 3: Exactly rusted out. 550 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: That's my theory. 551 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 3: Maybe it could be coincidence. 552 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: I'm with you, though, it is pretty interesting at the 553 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: very least. So the case remains open. And again, not 554 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: a hint, not a trace, Nothing has ever surfaced metaphorically 555 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: or literally that suggests what happened to those three women, 556 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: And so theories have been allowed to kind of grow 557 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: and take different shape and be argued over. And there's 558 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: like a handful. Most of them are fairly sensible. Actually, 559 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 1: some are kind of pedestrians. Some are kind of sensational. 560 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: But because no evidence has ever come forward, like each 561 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: one's just about as likely as the other. 562 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, and well. 563 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 4: I think we should mention before we do that that 564 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 4: drowning Miller and Blow were both really good swimmers. 565 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, like super good. 566 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think that's supposed to be twenty thirty 567 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 4: minutes right, surely not Miles. 568 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: I saw Miles. Really Yeah, let me look you do 569 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: some tap dancing. 570 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 4: That's like a serious elite athlete endurance swimming. 571 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was miles. Okay, I'm looking, 572 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: I'm looking. I don't want to get too nitpicky, but. 573 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 4: Well, if they were swimming thirty miles and they were 574 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 4: international champion athletes, okay, so regardless, they probably did not drown. 575 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 4: It is possible that the boat crashed and they did 576 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 4: drown and washed up somewhere, because you know, Lake Michigan 577 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 4: is huge, sixteen hundred and forty miles of shoreline. 578 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 3: It is the. 579 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 4: Deadliest of the Great Lakes. But it's it's possible that 580 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 4: they washed up somewhere and didn't you know, weren't ever found. 581 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, because remember that that search didn't start for two 582 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 1: full days after they were noticed to be missing. 583 00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 3: Right. 584 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 4: So that's one of the more mundane theory. It gets 585 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 4: a little more sensational when you look at Dick Wiley's theory. 586 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: Right. Dick Wiley was a crime reporter who basically, I 587 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: guess he reported on the case almost from the outset 588 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: and really stuck with it for years and years and years, 589 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: and he developed a theory that Anne Miller being pregnant. 590 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: It was Ann who was pregnant, right, Yeah, that Anne 591 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: Miller had gone out there with her girlfriends that day 592 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: because she was she planned on getting an illegal underground abortion. 593 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 3: It sounds very not believable to me. 594 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, a lot of a lot of people don't 595 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: believe it. But because so little has been written about 596 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: this case and this guy is one of the kind 597 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: of authorities on it, yeah, there's there is some credence 598 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: to it. 599 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 4: Not that she would have gone to get an underground abortion, 600 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 4: but that that would be performed on a boat. 601 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: That's the big, huge, one of the huge flaws in 602 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: that it just seems weird. It's what, I can't imagine 603 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: a more terrible place to perform a delicate procedure like 604 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: an abortion on a house. 605 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 3: Boat on fourth of July in Lake Michigan. 606 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: Well that's another thing too, is Okay. So what what 607 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: Wiley's theory is is that Anne went out there to 608 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: get this abortion, and Patty and Renee went there as 609 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: moral support, and they went out and met this guy 610 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: who took them to the houseboat for the abortion to 611 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: be performed. Well, the abortion was botched, killing Anne, and 612 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: the abortionists said well we've got to kill you two 613 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: now as well, and they got rid of all three 614 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: bodies and that's what happened to them. 615 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 3: That'd make a heck of a movie. 616 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: A lot of There are a lot of holes in 617 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: this theory, including the fact that why would you perform 618 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: an abortion on a houseboat? But there is some things 619 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: that kind of give it a little bit of credence. 620 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: In particular, there was a couple named the Largos. Was 621 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: it I always want to call her wand but it wasn't. 622 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: Was it Helen? Yeah, it is Helen Actually, Frank and 623 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: Helen Largo. They actually did have an undergrown abortion clinic 624 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty six in Gary, Indiana, which was very 625 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: close to the state park, and their nephew, Ralph bore 626 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: a striking resemblance to the description of the man in 627 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: his early twenties who came up in the tri Hoole runabout. 628 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 4: Right, And I think Ralph is verified as being there 629 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 4: that day as well so, and. 630 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: He lived with Frank and Helen Largo. So the Wiley's 631 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: theory that this guy came up and got them to 632 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 1: take them to go get this procedure done again, why 633 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,680 Speaker 1: would you do it on a houseboat when your clinic 634 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: is twenty miles away? And then Secondly, why would you 635 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: set up this kind of highly illegal procedure in front 636 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: of that many witnesses? And then thirdly, why would they 637 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: leave their stuff on the beach the way that they 638 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: did if they knew they were going for this appointment? Yeah, 639 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: this theory is bonkers, So we'll discard Wiley's theory. 640 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 3: Yeah. 641 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 4: The other one, obviously, was the Silas Jane, the criminal 642 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 4: dude from the Stables. People say that they think that 643 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 4: they may have witnessed the car bombing of Sheryl Lynn 644 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 4: Rude and that he was just getting rid of them 645 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 4: and snuffing them out. There is every reason to believe 646 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 4: that this guy would have done that looking at his history, 647 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 4: if they did possibly witness this rigging of a car bomb. 648 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: He also had an associate who supposedly bore a resemblance 649 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: to the man in the try Hole. Yeah run about. 650 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 3: Tan wavy hair. 651 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, early twenties. And I saw this and I could 652 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,479 Speaker 1: not verify it elsewhere, But there is a widespread rumor that, 653 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: or an unsubstantiated claim that that associate to cy Jane 654 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: Silas Chain put in an insurance claim for a boat 655 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: that had gone down around that time. Interesting, which would 656 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: definitely account for things. It would also account for why 657 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,759 Speaker 1: there was no boat reported missing. You wouldn't report a 658 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: boat missing if you used it to cover up a 659 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:15,280 Speaker 1: triple homicide. 660 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, because that's the biggest thing to me is if 661 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 4: there were other people on this boat and it was 662 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 4: an accident, someone would have said, hey, my dark haired, 663 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,760 Speaker 4: wavy haired son is missing and he has this boat. 664 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,919 Speaker 1: And there were no missing person from those three. 665 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 666 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: And what's more, even if like that guy was just 667 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: a total loner who had no friends or family, somebody 668 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 1: would say, a boat like that probably would have been 669 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: towed by car and trailer, and that car and trailer 670 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,439 Speaker 1: would have just been left there. Over time, somebody would 671 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: have noticed that there was this abandoned car and trailer 672 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 1: hanging out in the parking lot at the state park. 673 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:52,879 Speaker 1: Nothing like that ever turned up. 674 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. 675 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 4: The other theory in regards to Sila's Jane is that 676 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 4: these young women did witness this car bombing and knew 677 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,760 Speaker 4: that they needed to disappear before they were disappeared on purpose. 678 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 4: So this is and they like faked their own disappearance. 679 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: And that's Patty Blouse's brother's theory. Oh yeah, yeah, he 680 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 1: showed up on a forum called web Sleuths and apparently 681 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: he's verified. He's like, yes, I'm her brother, and he 682 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,840 Speaker 1: said that he thinks that they did go to stage 683 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: this disappearance, but that the guy who was going to 684 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: help them was actually in the employee of Silas Jane, 685 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: and this helping them disappear actually turned into this triple murder, 686 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: and that their bodies were disposed of. That's what her brother. 687 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 3: Thinks, and that the one who wasn't one of the 688 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 3: stable people. 689 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, that she was just there to help them disappear. 690 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 4: I don't know got caught up in this. I don't know, 691 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 4: because like why would she have gone out? 692 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, bad marriage, who knows. Maybe 693 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 1: it's a little thin, but I think it makes sense 694 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: for his sister the other two. It doesn't necessarily make 695 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: as much sense for maybe for Anne if she saw 696 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: if she is in danger as well. I don't know. 697 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 4: I think the most likely thing it's like the Peter 698 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 4: is it Peter principal? 699 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 3: No, the Ockham's razor? Is it the trolley problem? Ockham's razor? 700 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 3: Is that they drowned. I mean that's possible, didn't wash 701 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 3: a shore. 702 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: But here's the thing like in Lake Michigan's the deadliest 703 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: great lake of all of them, all five. I think 704 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 1: it accounts for out of all five, and it counts 705 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: for half of the deaths in any given year. But 706 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: most bodies do turn up. Most bodies are recovered. So 707 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: if three of them or four, or however many people 708 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: were on that boat that bow down, you'd think some 709 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 1: trace of at least one of them would have eventually 710 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: turned up. 711 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 4: You would think, so, you know, yeah, it's a true mystery. 712 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: It's also possible that they were taken away by somebody. 713 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: They weren't planning on disappearing, They weren't planning on leaving. 714 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: They just went on a pleasure cruise with the wrong 715 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: person who murdered them. Right, if a guy got three 716 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: women out on a boat and got it out into 717 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere on this enormous lake and then 718 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: pulled a gun on him, like you can, you could 719 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: one person could conceivably stay in control of three under 720 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: a situation like that. And that's that's, sadly enough, that's 721 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: a real possibility that that was their fate. They just 722 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: went with the wrong person. 723 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 4: That seems unlikely to me too, that like a serial 724 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 4: killer just picked up three women. 725 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: Here's the thing. There's one serial killer in particular that 726 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 1: some people really like for this. His name's Richard Speck. 727 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,879 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so Richard Speck is actually not a serial killer. 728 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: He's a mass murderer because he killed eight women at 729 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: a nursing college in one night. Yeah, which makes him 730 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: a mass murderer, not a serial killer. He did that 731 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: on July thirteenth, nineteen sixty six, in Chicago. On July second, 732 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, he was dropped off at a dock 733 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:58,280 Speaker 1: about twenty miles away from Indiana Dunes State Park. 734 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 3: He was not tan with dark wavy hair. 735 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 1: Though that is very true. 736 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 3: He was a real creep though. 737 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: He was a super big creep, had a terrible personality, 738 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: not a charmer, not good looking. So the idea that 739 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 1: he could get three like women into a boat of 740 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: his is kind of unlikely. 741 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 742 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: Also, he was well known as a very sloppy, opportunistic killer. 743 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: And that this if they were killed by somebody, this 744 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: seems to have been planned. The fact that their bodies 745 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,919 Speaker 1: never turned up suggests that who if they were killed 746 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 1: by somebody, they would have had to have planned to 747 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: have killed them, because they would have had to have 748 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: brought along all the weights needed and right that stuff. 749 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: Whatever it is like, any one of those theories is 750 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: just as likely as the others. 751 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 3: Good stuff, sad, tragic, but I love a good mystery. 752 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: Yep. Well, if you want to know more about the 753 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: disappearance of Patricio blow Ann Miller and Renee Brule, you 754 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,840 Speaker 1: can go read the Chicago Tribune article on it, the 755 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: Northwest Indiana Times article, Web Salutes, and the project. All 756 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,839 Speaker 1: those are great resources on this case. And since I 757 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,479 Speaker 1: said that, it's time for a listener mail. 758 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 4: Hey guys, I'm writing to say thank you. 759 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 2: You. 760 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:11,399 Speaker 1: See. 761 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,439 Speaker 4: I recently divorced, and I spent about half the time 762 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 4: I used to spend with my three young kids. 763 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 3: She goes to stay with me. I'm not going anywhere depressing. 764 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 3: She said. 765 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,440 Speaker 4: The divorce was the right move, and we're co parenting 766 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 4: quite amicably, and it's all good. I've got a full 767 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 4: life in meaningful relationships and lots to do ninety nine 768 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,879 Speaker 4: percent of the time. But the quiet of my day 769 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 4: at times when it is a kid free house is 770 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 4: something that's gotten some getting used to. I realize, without 771 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 4: even thinking about it, that I've taken to playing old 772 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,399 Speaker 4: episodes like Bizarre Ways to Die. 773 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 1: It's an oldie, It's a real oldie. 774 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 4: She's like, just because they make me feel in a 775 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 4: totally well adjusted and not insane way, like I'm in 776 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 4: the company of pals. 777 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,319 Speaker 3: I've been a listener for about five years. 778 00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 4: Only recently have I come to appreciate that I'm always 779 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 4: cheer it up and made it feel less lonely by 780 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,400 Speaker 4: hearing you guys talk to each other and to all 781 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 4: of us in podcast listener land. So thanks for what 782 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 4: you do, Thanks to the team who helps you, Like Jerry, 783 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,760 Speaker 4: you do a good thing for a lot of people, 784 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 4: and I appreciate it. Big hugs from Katherine in Chicago. 785 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 1: Chicago, Chicago, how appropriate. Thanks a lot, Katherine, We really 786 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: appreciate that. It's good to hear. Keep on keeping on, Yeah, 787 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: keep on trucking. If you want to get in touch 788 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,839 Speaker 1: with this, like Katherine did to let us know how 789 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: you're doing, we want to hear that. You can go 790 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,319 Speaker 1: on to stuff you Should Know dot com, check out 791 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,240 Speaker 1: our social links, and you can send us an email 792 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. 793 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 2: Stuff you Should Know is a production of Iheartradios How 794 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 2: stuff Works. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 795 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,360 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.