1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: And we were returning in our classic series with the 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: second part of our interview with Robert Maser, the customs 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: and drug enforcement agent who went deep cover to find 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: some dirty conspiratorial links between banks and your favorite drug cartels. 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: I was realizing I forgot to mention, guys, I was 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: realizing when we talked about part one, this is the 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: one where they closed down a movie theater for us. 8 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: Didn't that was super cool? Yeah, it was our favorite 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: movie theater too. I think it was the Midtown Art cinema. Shoutout. Yeah. 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: Robert Maser though Bob to his friends unless he were 11 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: one of his deep cover marks, in which case, who 12 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: knows what he would have called himself. But the guy 13 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: was absolutely successful in this endeavor um and lived absolutely 14 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: fascinating life. And this is an amazing work and we 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: actually got to talk to the man himself. From UFOs 16 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is riddled with 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: unexplained defense. You can turn back out or learn the 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, welcome back 19 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: to the show. My name is Matt, my name is no, 20 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: and I am Ben. You are you don't call it 21 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: a comeback, Ladies and gentlemen, but wait, can we get 22 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: a slam on the brakes? Noise and no perfect You 23 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: can in fact call this a comeback because this is 24 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: part two of our interview with Robert Maser in our 25 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: previous episode, which we do recommend you listen to before 26 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: listening to this if you if you haven't yet, go 27 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: ahead and stop this listen to part one. We'll be here. 28 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: And in this episode we're going to focus on money laundering. 29 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: In the previous episode it was all about the operations, 30 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: and this one it's what's happening right now? Are there 31 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: still banks out there that are taking money from drug 32 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: cartels and somehow funneling funneling them through banks in in 33 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: euro up in other places and then getting money that 34 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: they can use just out in the open. And not 35 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: to mention, I mean, so much of what is going 36 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: on now, um has been built off of the work 37 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: that Mr Maser did in terms of exposing some of 38 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: these techniques that the banks used that we will talk 39 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: about in much more detail in this part of the interview. UM. 40 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: So you could kind of look at part one is 41 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: sort of a history and this part two being sort 42 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: of more of a of a present and moving forward 43 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: kind of perspective on where we are now and where 44 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: all of this insane undercover work that Mr Maser did 45 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 1: has led us to spot on. So first, let's take 46 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: a little bit of a closer look at what money 47 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: laundering actually is. There's a great article on it at 48 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 1: our parent website, How Stuff Works. I know that side, Yes, yes, 49 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: I would hope that we are the three of us 50 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 1: are familiar with that side. We hope you are two 51 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. In the article how Money Laundering Works. 52 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: The author here, let's see, the author is Julia Layton, 53 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: and you always know it's going to be a good 54 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: article if Julia is writing the The author explains money 55 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: laundering in in this way. First, it's very common. Money 56 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: laundering happens in almost every country in the world. Second, 57 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: there are numerous avenues of money laundering. Right, So one scheme, 58 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: for instance, will typically involved transferring money through several different 59 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: countries to obscure where it came from. Right, so we 60 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: know that a million dollars coming from France or London 61 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: or the US is treated with less suspicion than a 62 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: million dollars coming from Columbia, for instance, or a million 63 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: dollars just appearing in Afghanistan, right, or in the case 64 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: of the U. S Military, millions of dollars disappear in somewhere. 65 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: So at its simplest, it's just the act of making 66 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: money that comes from source A look like it comes 67 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: from source B. So this is not the money from 68 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,559 Speaker 1: a cocaine empire. This is the money from a legitimate 69 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: yet ridiculously successful series of laundromats or what's another come on, 70 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: laundromats for laundering money. Yeah, for me, it reminds me 71 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: of the Onion router a little bit, I was gonna say, 72 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: Or even like a VPN where it like takes you know, 73 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: it obscures your location, um like so that you you 74 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: can't pin down where the person that's doing the illegal 75 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: downloading or whatever it is actually is and it basically 76 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: disguises their IP address. That same thing occurred to me totally. Yeah, 77 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: or if anything, it slows the process of tracking it 78 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: way way down right. So for fans of the television 79 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: show Breaking Bad, if we want to have a pop 80 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: culture reference in here, for fans of that show, laser 81 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: tag right right, Uh, there, there are series there's a 82 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: series of events where in uh, a group of drug 83 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 1: dealers is trying to find the correct, safest way to 84 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:06,239 Speaker 1: launder money, and at the level they are operating at UH, 85 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: they are looking for a business that primarily moves a 86 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: lot of cash, and so one of the would be 87 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: businesses is a laser tag places nold points out UH. 88 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: And then they also eventually settle on a car wash, 89 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: another place that usually UH uses a lot of cash 90 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: rather than credit or debit cards. The most common types 91 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: of criminals who need to launder money are, of course 92 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: drug traffickers, right, but they're not the only people. There 93 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 1: are also corrupt politicians, embezzlers, terrorists, Yeah, mobsters who shook 94 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: some money out of some people. Yeah, racketeers and then 95 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: which sounds way more friendly and somehow, Yeah, it just 96 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: makes me think of it makes anything of the rocketeer, 97 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: the rocketeer. And it also makes me think of maybe 98 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: there's a show in Vegas that's mafio so only called 99 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 1: the Racketeers, and maybe they on camera shake people down. 100 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: There's those you know, those can can dancers at Radio 101 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: City Music called the Rackets. Yeah, it's really they're called 102 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: the rockets. So did you already mention white collar like 103 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: embezzlement like high levels. Yeah, that's a fantastic point. We 104 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: touched on that, but let's go into a little more detail. Well, 105 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: it seems like you have to do this if you're 106 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: siphoning money out of your the company that you work for, 107 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: let's say your high level executive. And we've seen this 108 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: happen at several companies H and Ron, a couple others. 109 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: Um it seems like you would want to obscure that 110 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:49,679 Speaker 1: money as well, and they're going to use the same 111 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: tactics that a drug trafficker is going to use. Yes, 112 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: also one of my favorites, or at least favorite terms 113 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: confidence men scammers, right, rip off enthusiasts. So these common 114 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: then will do the same thing regardless. What they do 115 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: is they enter in this money, perhaps into an offshore 116 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: account of somewhere, you know, someplace, and then filter that 117 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: through a process called layering. Right, So maybe this goes 118 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: from the off shore account, it goes to another offshore accounter, 119 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: it goes to account in Europe or account in the US, 120 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: or maybe they just buy a boat with this offshore account, 121 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: and then it goes into what's called the integration phase, 122 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: wherein it goes to maybe the boat and when the 123 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: off shores goes to a US account or maybe one 124 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: of these secondary accounts in Europe or in the U 125 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: S wherever goes into a business investment. So now, uh 126 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: now Mr Barnaby from part one is no longer a 127 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: no longer a purveyor of human traffickings boils. We get 128 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: really dark with that one. You have actually retired that 129 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: alias and now going by the name Steven Stevenson, Stephen Stevenson, Okay, cool? 130 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, alright, Steven Stevenson. It's a whole new man. 131 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: And he owns a chain of blockbusters in Hungary or something, 132 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: and that's where he makes all of that's where he 133 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: has made his millions blockbusters killing it in Hungry. Right now, 134 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: that's one guy. It's Steve Stevenson magic. Uh So, so 135 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: we see this pretty simply, right, uh Sending the money 136 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: through various financial transactions to change its form make it 137 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: difficult to follow. Musilla or Maser dealt with a lot 138 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: of this in in the course of operations see chase. 139 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: And then the integration, the stage where it enters the 140 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: mainstream economy and it looks legit. You know, it's a 141 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: bunch of Hungarian blockbusters or something. Uh. This this means 142 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: that you can use the money if you're a criminal 143 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: without getting caught at this point, if you successfully integrate, 144 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,439 Speaker 1: because it's very, very difficult to catch a launderer during 145 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: the integration stage if there's no documentation all the way 146 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 1: back to the the original point. You know. So we 147 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: mentioned white collar crime, we mentioned drug traffic, and we 148 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: mentioned terrorists activities, and we mentioned some of the methods 149 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: of of this. Right, I can walk us through a 150 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: money laundering thing called smurfing. Sounds great, Wait, I remember 151 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: hearing about this. Smurfing is when you break up the amount. 152 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: So you've got a million dollars whatever, let's say a 153 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: million dollars, You're gonna break it up into a bunch 154 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: of smaller payments of let's say nine thousand, nine hundred 155 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: and nine dollars, because there's a ten thousand dollar limit 156 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: when you're operating in this dark money field, because if 157 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: you hit at ten thousand dollars, you're gonna get pinned 158 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,680 Speaker 1: no matter where you're trying to move that money. Um. 159 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: I tried to move ten thousand dollars of savings one 160 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: time when I went to buy I know this is 161 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: a personal thing. But when I tried to put a 162 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: down payment on my house and it got pains, and 163 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: the person told me, well, why don't you break it 164 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: up into two payments of five thousand dollars just so 165 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: you don't have to go through all the hassle and 166 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: for anyone who wants to do that. So at ten 167 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: thousand dollars, every US bank has to report any transaction, yes, 168 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: and and then there's all kinds of paperwork you have 169 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: to get into. The smurfs the origin of this name. 170 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: The smurfs are the multiple people who deposit these below 171 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: ten thousand dollar amounts in different bank accounts, one or 172 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,839 Speaker 1: more bank accounts. And some of our audience members who 173 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: maybe work in a financial or banking system are familiar 174 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: with this, and we would love to hear your stories 175 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: if you've met some smurfs. That term is also using 176 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: breaking bad again for the folks that would go out 177 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: and I just the legal amount of pseudo epha draine, 178 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: which is the precursor for making methemphetamine. And so they 179 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: were they were like you would get flagged or you 180 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: would not you would have they would report you for 181 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: buying you know, a certain amount, and if you just 182 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: go out and buy justmin below that amount and you 183 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: get a bunch of people doing it, and they call smarts, 184 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: then you get enough to make your batch so's. And 185 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: there are a couple of other things that There are 186 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: a couple of other I guess avenues we should call 187 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: them where wherein dirty money can be cleaned or laundered. 188 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: Their alternative banking institutions of sorts, many that are traditional, 189 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: like the Kalas system in Pakistan and India. These are 190 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: trust based systems that don't have a paper trail. They 191 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: out they operate outside of government control. And then, of 192 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: course there's one of my as a kid, this is 193 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: one of my favorite ideas, shell companies. You know a 194 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: corporation that is a po box in some country that's 195 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: very good at not paying close attention to business transactions. 196 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: And these companies exist for no other reason than to 197 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: clean money. So they'll take in money as a payment 198 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: for some kind of good or service. Let's call it 199 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: yacht maintenance, you know, uh with Murdoch Farnsworth's yacht maintenance business. Right, 200 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: And what that does is allow people to say that 201 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: they spent this money right to get their yacht fixed 202 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: their non existent yacht. It doesn't have to be a 203 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: fake company doing that. You can do it in a 204 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: real a real company that just handles cash, like what 205 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 1: kind of we talked about earlier, which is crazy. You 206 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: could You could walk into a casino if you know 207 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: the guys and you have a little deal, just because 208 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: the casino deals with cash so often you just go, well, 209 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: you know, here's some cash that came into the casino today. Yeah, 210 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 1: and those are a little different because they're their front companies, 211 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 1: so they yeah, they are obviously like they're legitimate. Ways 212 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: to do this are actually providing a good or a service, 213 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: And there are two ways to do that. We could 214 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: either you like how all three of us now are 215 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: working together to launder money? Actually, do you like how 216 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: all of us are working together now? Listeners, you're part 217 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: of this. If you're a copy, you have to tell 218 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 1: us is technically not true, by the way, So I 219 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: don't believe any of your friends who say that. But 220 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: there are two ways to do this, generally, if we're 221 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: talking about a front company rather than a shell company. 222 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: Oh and just a side note, the thing I loved 223 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: the reason I love the idea of shell companies because 224 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 1: when I was very young and there were shell gas 225 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: stations around and I thought, Wow, they must be running 226 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 1: drugs or doing something bad and no one knows. I 227 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: thought I had figured out what a shell company was 228 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: back then. Oh my gosh, right I was. I was like, yeah, 229 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: that's genius. No one will ever investigate them. I was 230 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: wrong on all accounts. But so there are two ways 231 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: we've want to do a legitimate for on end business. 232 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: And one way is to deal with the business that 233 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: make uses so much money, so much cash or electronic funds, 234 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: that it's easy to slip some bad apples into the 235 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: into the bushel, into the basket. And those would be things, 236 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: like you said, Matt, like a casino or brokerage firm, 237 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: or you can use the smaller stuff that often uses 238 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: cash just in as stay to day. We can name 239 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: a few. We said, car washes, that's one, bars, check 240 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: cashing stores, and America's favorite strip clubs. Oh yeah, right, 241 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: lots of lots on, lots of ones, lots of lots 242 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: of two dollar bills. I don't know in those comments. 243 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: So the the effects about this, uh, we we have 244 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: Mr Maser talking a little bit about the effects of 245 00:14:55,320 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: money laundry. When it gets larger and larger, what happens 246 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: is international banks become involved. So b c c I 247 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: was the seventh largest bank in the world, as Mr 248 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: Maser said in his previous interview, But b c c 249 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: I is far from the only bank that has been 250 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: involved with this. For instance, we talked a little bit 251 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: about some banks in the past. Yeah, he hits Wacovia, 252 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: a huge scandal there. We hit HSBC in the interview, 253 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: and Mr Maser goes into pretty good detail on both 254 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: of those saying exactly what they did. Because I think 255 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: we should probably get to Mr Maser himself, as he 256 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: um had lived this all of the things that we're 257 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: talking about, and there's still some very interesting things to 258 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: say yet in this interview. But before we get to that, 259 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: we're just gonna take a quick break for a sponsor. 260 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: So you mentioned that this is occurring now, and you'd 261 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: also mentioned in the past, I think it was you 262 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: did an interview with The New York Times and you 263 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: spoke about the hundreds of leads that were not followed 264 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: up after the c Chase investigation, and it makes me 265 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: wonder what would have been uncovered if they would have 266 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: followed those leads and could it possibly have kind of 267 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: stopped some of what we're seeing today. M hm okay, 268 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: the first party I got the leads part, the first 269 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: part of yours still happening today? Yeah, well it's it's 270 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: definitely still happening today because we've got the scourge of 271 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: illegal drugs all over the world to a greater degree 272 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: than we've ever had it before. Um. You know, the 273 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: United Nations on Drugs and Crime did study a few 274 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: years ago trying to identify the amount of money seeking 275 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: secrecy from governments, the amount of money seeking money laundering 276 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: services every year. And in that study that they did, 277 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: and you can get that just on the internet. Just 278 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: put in U N O d c U United Nations 279 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: on Drugs and Crime, UM, money laundering, UM, just look 280 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,239 Speaker 1: for some other keywords. But long and short of it 281 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: is they identifying that the annual drug proceeds illegal drug 282 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: proceeds was somewhere in the vicinity of about four billion dollars. 283 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: And if you look at the Department of Justice Asset 284 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: Forfeits your website, you can see what the annual forfeitures 285 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 1: are for the Department Justice. Keep in mind that that's 286 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: for all kinds of cases so pharmaceutical UH finds against 287 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: pharmaceuticals for uh, different types of offenses UM, medicare, medic fraud, 288 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: All kinds of different things are in there. You boil 289 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: it down to the drug money and it comes down 290 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: to you. There's no way you can say it's more 291 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: than a billion to hear so foll versus a billion, 292 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: that's one fourth UM clear yearly. Uh there are professionals 293 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: that are involved helping people to in a sophisticated way 294 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: launder this money. Otherwise we'll be finding more than one 295 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: four UM. If you want to look at the deferred 296 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 1: prosecutions UM that have happened, and even if we just 297 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: stick to those that relate to drug proceeds, you know 298 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: you have in two thousand and twelve the HSBC case UM. 299 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 1: In that instance, UM, just google senator UM Elizabeth Warren 300 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: HSBC UM YouTube and you'll you'll get to hear our 301 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 1: own senators talking about how atrocious it is in their 302 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: view that a bank can launder own nearly a billion 303 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: dollars and nobody goes to jail and UH they pay 304 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: at one point nine two billion dollar fine. UM. That's 305 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: just a few years ago before that you have. Wacoba 306 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: Bank paid a hundred sixty million dollar fine. What were 307 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: they doing? They had no branches in Mexico. What they 308 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: did as they sent their account executives from Philadelphia, Miami, 309 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: to Sinaloa and other areas of Mexico to deal with 310 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: houses of exchange causes. They come you as correspondent bank relationships. 311 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: And what they did is they wanted up taking fourteen 312 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: billion dollars in cash deposits UH and bringing it in 313 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: over a period of about three years back into the 314 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 1: United States. They did that on by by having the 315 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: cash brought in by armored cars and flown in and 316 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: gone going to accounting houses established by the bank in 317 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,719 Speaker 1: different parts of the United States, and I know one 318 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: of them is in California. UM, tell me how it 319 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 1: is that you don't have any branches in Mexico, but 320 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: you decide to market that business you bring in fourteen billion. 321 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: I was a money launder undercover. My money that we 322 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: got from my clients were in five tens and twenties, 323 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: so it's a big bundle. UH. If it was twenty 324 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: dollar bills and fourteen billion, I think I did the 325 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 1: math and it came out to about seven and eighty tons, 326 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: So who would you get the seven tons of cash from. 327 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 1: You know, if you look at the HSBC bas UH, 328 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 1: they were repatriated in US currency a hundred and six 329 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: billion dollars a hundred and six billion, So if that 330 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: was twenties, it comes out to about I think it 331 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: was fifty eight hundred tons. So UM, I don't I 332 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't understand how we we wind up 333 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: um dealing in this bulk bank note business the way 334 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: we have historically, and and we don't wind up with 335 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: very big of a change, you know in the the 336 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: overall picture, in the way of the how deep the 337 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: talents of the cartels are into um UH, into the 338 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: drug trade UM and you know, and things have actually 339 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: gotten worse in the last well, I would say in 340 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: the last seven or eight years, because now there's a 341 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: body of aces that clearly show that the that terrorist 342 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: organizations are working closely with the Colombian cartels and the 343 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: Mexican cartels. Then you can look at the case. The 344 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: last name is Juma j o U m a A. 345 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: I'm in a y m N Duma j o U 346 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: m a A. So google that and drug trafficking UM 347 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: the Mr. Juma is Eleveanese Columbian UM who was very 348 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 1: instrumental in UM the exportation of about three hundred tons 349 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: of cocaine and the laundering about a half a billion 350 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: dollars in drug proceeds and UM when the funds were 351 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: traced in that case, UM, there were definitely portions of 352 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: the drug proceeds that went into accounts that have been 353 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:46,360 Speaker 1: substantiated to have been used by Hesbela for terrorist related activity. 354 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: So we have HESBLA, Hamas al Qaeda and other organizations 355 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: that have recognized this as a way to uh generate 356 00:21:54,880 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 1: revenue for their illegal activities. So, UM, yes of stuff 357 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: is still going on. That's part of why I feel 358 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: it's so important to share this information with the world. UM. 359 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: There's a couple of reasons I think it's so important. One, 360 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: I think it's extraordinarily important because this case was a 361 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: team effort. I'd say that at the height of the 362 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: operation two and fifty or more, there are a lot 363 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: of masers out there. There are literally dozens of people 364 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: who volunteered to work long term undercover because they want 365 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,199 Speaker 1: to be a part of making a difference and they 366 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: want to serve the public. Um and and I think 367 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: we lose sight of that in today's day and age 368 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: for some strange reason. Um, we don't realize that there 369 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: are people out there who they're not eager to do this, 370 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: but if it should happen, are committed to give their 371 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: life for us, just like soldiers on a battlefield. And 372 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,359 Speaker 1: and the greatest majority of the law members of the 373 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: law enforcement community, in my view, are good and honorable 374 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: people who were prepared to make that sacrifice. Uh and 375 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: and today, especially when we look at unfortunately in every profession, 376 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure journalism as well. You know, you have a 377 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: ill curve of life, and you have some people who 378 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 1: are probably shouldn't be journalists. Well, we've got been in 379 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: law enforcement to and when they do something stupid. Um, 380 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: I think it's really so unfair to paint that stupidity 381 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: on the entire profession because the greatest majority of people 382 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: out there are truly willing to give their lives for 383 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: you and your families, to give you a better place 384 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: to live in and to give the world a better 385 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: place to exist. So that's a part of it. And 386 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: the other part of it is to make sure that 387 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: the American public knows that this is a constant problem. 388 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: The equation we're using is the best thing I guess 389 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: we've figured we can come across. But if things are 390 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: getting worse, maybe we need to reassess what the equation 391 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: is because we can't continue to allow governments to become corrupted, 392 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: and we can't continue to allow um a lot of 393 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 1: people to get extraordinarily sick um from the use of 394 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: illegal drugs. So something needs to be done. And it's 395 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: something that my experience to date tells me is that 396 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: the equation can benefit substantially from an added amount of education, treatment, 397 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: and economic opportunity, at least in this country. Um. I 398 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: think that could make a I think that could make 399 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: a positive add on to the formula that we now have. 400 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: I think it's really an opportunity through this film to 401 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: be entertained, but it's also an opportunity to use that 402 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: platform to talk about the issues because these are issues 403 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: that affect each and every one of us. Yet and 404 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:58,959 Speaker 1: we really appreciate the message that you are sending with 405 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: this partying the what what's the old definition of insanity? 406 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 1: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results? Right? 407 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:12,360 Speaker 1: Um So, Mr Maser, what is what in your opinion. 408 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: You talked a little bit about education, right and treatment, What, 409 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: in your opinions should change in terms of policy or 410 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: legislation to prevent this situation where banks are essentially seeing 411 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: these fines as a cost of doing business tax Mm hmm. Well, 412 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 1: I think it goes to the same thing we can 413 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: say about the wrong doing in the law enforcement community. 414 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: Individual responsibility, holding people responsible for their acts, people, not institutions. 415 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: Please don't try to tell me as I've seen people 416 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: within the government trying to tell the American public. UM. 417 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: And this was said, UM when it was determined by 418 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice that appropriate disposition of the HSBC 419 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: case was simply a fine at one point nine two 420 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 1: billion UM. When someone tried to suggest that you have 421 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: to understand that these are very complicated statutes in order 422 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: to apply individual responsibility for the violation of and this 423 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,720 Speaker 1: is just legal speak in my mind, UM, intentionally failing 424 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: to maintain an antime money and laundering compliance program. Well, 425 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: if you're gonna use an obscure statute like that, I 426 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: can see how you might be able to make those arguments. 427 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: But you know, the Department of Justice in night and 428 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: Congress in six gave us the opportunity to use the 429 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: money wondering statute, and I don't know why it wasn't applied. 430 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: It's not very complicated. What it says is, if you 431 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: know that money comes from a specified unlawful source, and 432 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: one of those is drug trafficking. There's a long list 433 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: of specified and unlawful activity. But if you know it 434 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: came from a specified and lawful activity and you do 435 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: anything to conceal in disguise the source of the funds, 436 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 1: guess he just committed money laundering. It's the point of 437 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: year offense, and I believe it's a five dollar fine. 438 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: That's the statute that is most applicable in these cases. 439 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: And one of the problems we face is that the 440 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: way we go about working these things oftentimes comes on 441 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: the heels of regulators who are looking at records three 442 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,120 Speaker 1: years old. Um, it's a real challenge to be able 443 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 1: to prove what was in the mind of the person 444 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: that carried out the transaction three years ago. So the 445 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: long term undercover operations that capture on tape exactly what 446 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: people know at the time of transactions were done. It's 447 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: a pretty darn effective tool. We don't use it enough. 448 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: There are a lot of other things that we don't. 449 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I've written up pieces for The New York 450 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: Times and others about how it is that I would 451 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,959 Speaker 1: recommend that we really seriously think about readjusting how we 452 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: go after money wanderers. Um. But the long and short 453 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: of it is, we seem to be, as you said, 454 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: doing the same thing over and over and over again 455 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: and not being willing to open our mind into um 456 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: the idea of perfecting, you know, improving the approach. It 457 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: seems like right now, more than ever, we're experiencing something 458 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: of a sea change in terms of prohibition of drugs, 459 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: specifically with with marijuana. A lot of areas are moving 460 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: away from that decriminalizing and outright you know, legalizing. What 461 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: do you see as as the benefits and of course, 462 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: the dangers of decriminalizing and even legalizing drugs, perhaps ones 463 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,360 Speaker 1: that are more insidious than something like marijuana. Yeah, well, 464 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: I'm not willing to go pass the marijuana discussion on 465 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: that because I don't I don't understand a society that 466 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: would really be promoting the idea of meth ampheta mean 467 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: heroin um um and a lot of other even more 468 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: dangerous drugs UM out on the street. But UM, you know, 469 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: when it comes to marijuana, let's take a close look 470 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: at what's occurring UM in Washington and Colorado and in 471 00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: a few other states that have across the board legalized UM. 472 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: You often, oftentimes you have a limited number of licenses 473 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: for the production, and you have people coming from many 474 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: different corners to buy. And so let's not forget the 475 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: old adage of economics one on one from college, Supply 476 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: and demand. UM. When you have limited supply UM, your 477 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: price is going to go up. So the price that's 478 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: being offered or being charged for high end UM marijuana 479 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: is probably not probably in fact, is substantially higher than 480 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: what you can get on the black market in the 481 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: same locations because they don't have the problem of licensing 482 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: and all of all the other issues that are going on. 483 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: So in effect, we've kind of created UM green zones 484 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: for the cartels UM in these areas. UM. But you know, 485 00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: I really do believe that if you haven't educated and 486 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: provided adequate treatment to your citizens, and now you're going 487 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: to open the floodgates and you're going to contemplate the 488 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: idea of just legalizing all kinds of illegal drugs across 489 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: the board. I don't see a pretty ending to that whatsoever. 490 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: I've been on a lot of shows in the last 491 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: several years and some professive libertarians, and when I say 492 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: my concerns about that, I get to come back from him, Well, 493 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: isn't that a good thing? I mean, basically, these people 494 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: will just all die off and and we won't have 495 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: this problem. That's not a part of my thinking. I 496 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: don't embrace that whatsoever. UM. So, I think the problem 497 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: is a little bit more complicated than just UM making 498 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: it available across the board. I think number one, we 499 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: need to get into education and treatment so that we 500 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: can get the van down. And and number two, if 501 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: we're going to get into legalization, let's try to get 502 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: ourselves organized on the on the marijuana side before we 503 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: start thinking about UM. I don't know if you guys 504 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: know anybody who's used met amphet. I mean, but I've 505 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: seen pictures of him, and I've met I've met I've 506 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: met him, because you know, when you're a copy, you 507 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: do and after about two or three experiences, it owns them. 508 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: I don't want my doctor UM being a fault in that. 509 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: And I don't of course one would say, well, the 510 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: drugs are readily available even though they were illegal, so 511 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: you know, if they want to get involved in it, 512 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: they can. And I understand all those arguments, but I 513 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: just can't see condoning as a society UM on a 514 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: broad basis, making really dangerous drugs available to UM to 515 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: a population on a statewide, sanctioned basis, I just I 516 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: can't do it, maybe because I was a copto law. Robert, 517 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 1: thank you so much for talking with us so far. Man, 518 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: it's been quite enlightening. We really appreciate it. We are 519 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: coming up at the to the end of our time 520 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: that we have with you, and we I just want 521 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 1: to ask you, if there's one thing that you could 522 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: leave with the audience today, what would it be. I 523 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: think all of these issues we're talking about boiled down 524 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: to individual responsibility. I look the problems that we had 525 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: out there today, uh in the backlash of bad conduct 526 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: by a few police officers, UM, and how we're trying 527 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: to deal with it, UM. Some people try to deal 528 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: with it UM indicting an entire profession. UM. I'm not 529 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: saying that there aren't some reflections that shouldn't be done 530 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: across the board. But let's let's try to let's try 531 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: to move more toward individual responsibility. I think that's going 532 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: to help in the money ordering world. Individually responsible people, 533 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: those people who are involved in turning hundreds of billions 534 00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: of dollars into legitimate businesses that corrupt governments around the world. UM, 535 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: we need to we need to let the people know 536 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: who are involved in that type of activity that if 537 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: they do that, they're going to go to jail. They're 538 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: not just gonna go to jail, They're gonna go to 539 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: jail for a real long period of time until we 540 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,080 Speaker 1: get that were we are not going to have a 541 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: lot of people out there who are going to be 542 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: afraid to do that type of stuff. And I think 543 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: you can apply that to most of the basic problems 544 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: that we've been we've been talking about individual responsibility and 545 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: and uh and not painting with such a broad brush, 546 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: um on all these issues. Well, there you have it. 547 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: That was a lot of fun. I mean, definitely went 548 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: to some pretty dark places. UM. It really makes you 549 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: wonder how much of this is going on at the 550 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: same level, if not worse than it was when when 551 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: Maser was doing you know, his his his operation and 552 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: It's sort of like one of these things where you 553 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: see someone making such a huge difference in a particular time, 554 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: but does it make a huge difference long term? You know, 555 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,800 Speaker 1: there's just always new ways of getting around these things. 556 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: The banks are not getting any less corrupt, you know, 557 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: like he was talking about this toothless prosecution. These banks, 558 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 1: you know, can afford to pay these fines. It is, 559 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: as he said, the cost of doing business. And until 560 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: somehow we change the just the foundation of this capitalist 561 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: system where money is always better than less money. You 562 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: know what's good. I don't understand you. I don't don't 563 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,359 Speaker 1: know what the answer is. Guys that it left me 564 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: I want to I don't hate to say it, but 565 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: it left me not not particularly hopeful. I feel like 566 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,720 Speaker 1: he kind of gave us an answer there, and it's jail, 567 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: the bankers, jail the people who you can who you 568 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 1: can directly connect with going through these processes, and you 569 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: I gotta say, I pretty I think I agree with him. 570 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: I think that's that's where we need to go. Also 571 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 1: must point out that in these actions, it's so easy 572 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,399 Speaker 1: to paint a broad brush and say, you know, the 573 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: drug dealers or the bankers, we have to remember that 574 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: an organizations of this size, you know, the people who 575 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: are out there, for instance, harvesting coca leaves, they're not 576 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: living high on the hog by any means. The people 577 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 1: who are the tellers at the branch of your local 578 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: bank or credit union overwhelmingly have nothing to do with this. 579 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: So just because someone works at a bank doesn't necessarily 580 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: make them an international supervillain. However, at the top there 581 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: clearly are people who are doing things like HSBC did 582 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 1: to pay a fine a little less than two billion 583 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 1: dollars after admitting money laundering to see no can sequences 584 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: of that action. And right now, the illegal drug trade 585 00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: accounts for an estimated eight percent of all international trade, 586 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: so that's almost ten percent of all the stuff traveling 587 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: around this planet is gonna is going to be uh 588 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: into financial terms, some kind of illegal substance we will 589 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: need to be laundered and the money behind it will 590 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: need to be laundered. So there is a demand for 591 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: this kind of business. We mentioned Bank of America, also 592 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,799 Speaker 1: Western Union, JP Morgan and oddly enough, this is a 593 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,839 Speaker 1: little bit of a different discussion than we touched on 594 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: in the previous episode, But oddly enough, you guys. Apparently 595 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: banks in the US are being very unhelpful to UH 596 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: to legalize marijuana businesses. Well, yeah, they've they've got a hand, 597 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 1: they've got skin in the game. There. There was a 598 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: quote from the film by the character played by Benjamin 599 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:09,240 Speaker 1: Bratt Roberto Alcano Alcano, where he said, if your country 600 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 1: didn't have my money, your economy would collapse, which I 601 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 1: think he may have been right, which is pretty scary. 602 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: He was. He was one of the main Escobar money men. 603 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 1: And again, the film we're talking about is the Infiltrader. Um. 604 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: We didn't really talk about that one in this episode 605 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,359 Speaker 1: so much as we have the last one in case 606 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: you missed it, and it's worth checking out. It should 607 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: be coming out, um, I believe any day now. Oh well, 608 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: come on. Though, we we were pretty clear at the 609 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 1: beginning if anybody's listening to the end of this, then 610 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 1: surely you've already listened to episode one. I would hope. 611 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes people don't follow instructions. That's true. 612 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 1: That's true. I'm pretty terrible instructions. We just sort of 613 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:53,839 Speaker 1: wing it every time. So so that is the situation 614 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: as it stands today. One of the things that Mr 615 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: Maser obviously has obviously sees as an error in policy 616 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: is the use of deferred prosecution, right Removing the consequences 617 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: removes any incentive to obey the law. Unfortunately, although I 618 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: believe every person has the potential to be amazing and 619 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: astonishing and noble and moral and all all that slow jazz, 620 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: unfortunately people often only don't do horrible things because consequences exist. 621 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: In a world without consequences or a situation without consequences, 622 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 1: people can turn into animals. And it's very easy to 623 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 1: rationalize those actions. And how fascinating is it that corporations 624 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: can't be prosecuted as though they were individuals, but yet 625 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: can give money to political campaigns as if they were. 626 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,280 Speaker 1: It's a little counterintuitive to me. Oh yeah, I definitely 627 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,280 Speaker 1: feel you there. And so concludes for the moment our 628 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: series on money laundering on the underground narcotics trade, and 629 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: we have in the course of this exploration found so 630 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: many other things that are captivating. If you haven't seen 631 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: it yet, we'd love for you to check out our 632 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:24,880 Speaker 1: recent video on Narco saints on the religious practices of 633 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: criminals around the world. Definitely a lot to chew on there, 634 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: Um we really appreciate Mr Maser making the time to 635 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: talk with us, and Um, I think we got a 636 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 1: lot out of it, got two episodes out of it, 637 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 1: which is cool. And I'm vacation next week, so sucker, 638 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,800 Speaker 1: good luck man. I will see you back in that chair. 639 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: But before you go, there's one last thing you got 640 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: to help us out with. I think I know what 641 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:56,400 Speaker 1: that might be. Shut ut Conners. First order of business 642 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: shout out one goes to Jen Jones. Hi, guys, I 643 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: just listened to your sleep paralysis episode and wanted to 644 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: share my own experiences. I experienced it a bit differently 645 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: than most. I have never felt like someone is choking 646 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: me or seen any opperations at the foot of my bed. 647 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: Very very common description of these sleep paralysis scenarios, of 648 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: which we got a metric ton of via email, which 649 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: was great to hear people um sharing their experience with us. Instead, 650 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: says Jen, I like completely still very aware of where 651 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 1: my body is, with the overwhelming feeling that I need 652 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: to wake up immediately or something is going to get 653 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 1: inside my body before I can return to consciousness. Often 654 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: after a bout of this, I will find strange bruises 655 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,759 Speaker 1: and scratches either on my wrists or ankles, depending on 656 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: which limb was closest to the edge of my bed. Anyway, 657 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,800 Speaker 1: thanks for the show, and then she asked for a 658 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: shout out. So, Jen, this is a definitely unique um 659 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: scenario with sleep aroalysis and I find it fascinating. I 660 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: have no explanation for this shout out to you, Jen, 661 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: if indeed it is you writing at our next shout 662 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: out goes to Keith are also known as as the 663 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: Venomous Moss. Of course. Uh. Keith says, I've been listening 664 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: to your podcast a Lauda and been going through past episodes, 665 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: and I listened to the does the UK Control the 666 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: US episode the day before yesterday. As he writes this, 667 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: so after being saddened that next month might not really 668 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: be Independence Day, sab in sarcasm. He's killing it with 669 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 1: the indications here. I'm getting the tone. He says. I 670 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: caught onto the city of London and what that is. 671 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: Imagine my surprise when reading an article about Brexit that 672 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 1: the city of London wanted to remain in the EU. 673 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,759 Speaker 1: That phrase would have slipped by the uninitiated, But now 674 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,160 Speaker 1: I am more clued into world events because of your 675 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 1: podcast and I am aware. Props to you, Mr Venomous. Well, 676 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: props to you, Mr Venomous, and thanks so much for 677 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 1: checking out the show. The UK control in the US 678 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 1: is a pretty interesting topic. The city of London is bizarre. 679 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 1: I know we've mentioned before just how strange it is, 680 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,040 Speaker 1: but man, I want to visit there are you know 681 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 1: there are opportunities to visit. If you're the queen, you 682 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:10,000 Speaker 1: have to ask permission to go, but I think we 683 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: can probably just go down. Yeah, and if anybody out there, 684 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: you know, wants to host a couple of traveling podcasters, 685 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,760 Speaker 1: um just hit us up on conspiracy at how stuff 686 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 1: works dot com a couple of ragtag yanks, three ragtag yanks. 687 00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: In the final shoutout today goes to Tyler Ah says, 688 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,400 Speaker 1: Hey guys, long time listener here. I've been following China's 689 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,839 Speaker 1: island building habits in the South China Sea for a 690 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,399 Speaker 1: for a while and I thought, Hey, this topic would 691 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 1: be interesting for you guys to do an episode on. 692 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,360 Speaker 1: There's a reason that they're building the islands in the 693 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: South China see. Tyler says the islands have a long history, 694 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: going all the way back to the pot Stem Conference, 695 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 1: and the area has been a hot bit of controversy 696 00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: since then. In most recent news, the Hague has ruled 697 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,560 Speaker 1: that China has no sovereignty over the area, but lacks 698 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,920 Speaker 1: resources to enforce such a controversial ruling, prompting mobilization of 699 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,359 Speaker 1: naval forces on behalf of the US, which in my 700 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: eyes is pretty troubling. So that's this is something that 701 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,720 Speaker 1: we touched on during the World War three. Ways World 702 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 1: War three may start video when we did that, and 703 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 1: we touched on some of that on audio as well, 704 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 1: and it's a bit disconcerting to see it happening in 705 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,399 Speaker 1: real life ben the way things are unfolding, right. So 706 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: the case that we're referring to in the U N 707 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:33,759 Speaker 1: or the Hague was a comes from an international tribunal 708 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: called the Permanent Court of Arbitration. And what they did, 709 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: and the next big step here is they declared China's 710 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: historic claims in the South China Sea invalid. This was 711 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 1: a pretty wide ranging, clear cut ruling. The surprised a 712 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: lot of people who watch international affairs or especially watched 713 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,800 Speaker 1: this region. The case dates back to two thousand thirteen. 714 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,520 Speaker 1: The Philippines filed the case when China grab control of 715 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,360 Speaker 1: a reef called the Scarborough Shore. It's about two hundred 716 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,640 Speaker 1: and twenty miles northwest of Manila, or for everybody outside 717 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: of the US, Myanmar and Namibia, it's three kilometers. So 718 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: the thing is about a third of the world's trade 719 00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,359 Speaker 1: passes through the sea lanes of the South China Sea, 720 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,759 Speaker 1: including most of China's oil imports, and the ground under 721 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: it has vast reserves of oil and gas. But uh, 722 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,480 Speaker 1: there's a growing military presence on the Chinese side of 723 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: the US has two aircraft carriers in there recently, and 724 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: there's a live fire exercise that China's navy was recently staging. 725 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,239 Speaker 1: So what we're seeing here is the idea of rule 726 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,120 Speaker 1: based international order, at least that's how the West would 727 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,479 Speaker 1: argue it, and the Chinese view of what are seeing 728 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:58,600 Speaker 1: as historic rights that trump current global laws. And the 729 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:04,720 Speaker 1: issue of historic rights or claims to land or resources 730 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:11,320 Speaker 1: come up in repeated and tragic instances throughout world history. Right, 731 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:17,360 Speaker 1: So who actually owns the land upon which people reside? 732 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:25,360 Speaker 1: Who has a more historically legitimate claim to some piece 733 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:31,680 Speaker 1: of soil or a kilometer of ocean or river, And unfortunately, 734 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: this kind of stuff is rarely concluded in a civilized 735 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 1: or mutually respectful fashion, and you can point to numerous 736 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,880 Speaker 1: other instances of it occurring right now in the world 737 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:55,760 Speaker 1: in which we live. And if that precedent for most 738 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,799 Speaker 1: other cases remains the same, then there's there's probably not 739 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,680 Speaker 1: going to be um and end to this situation as 740 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:10,399 Speaker 1: ideal to all these to all the involved parties. So 741 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:15,400 Speaker 1: the Chinese argument is that in centuries and centuries in 742 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,080 Speaker 1: the past, Chinese seafair is discovered and named islands in 743 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,479 Speaker 1: the region, and that the country of China itself has 744 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:30,680 Speaker 1: ancestral fishing rights there. So there's also internal propaganda going 745 00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 1: on about this. In July, a state television company in 746 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,560 Speaker 1: China began a mini series about the experience of Chinese 747 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:43,399 Speaker 1: fishermen in the nineteen forties, enforcing coincidentally, China's view of 748 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:49,600 Speaker 1: the South China Sea. So what what these rights are 749 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,000 Speaker 1: said to be defined by is what was called a 750 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,200 Speaker 1: nine dash line. It's still usually called that, even though 751 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,600 Speaker 1: in it became a ten dash line to bring to 752 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,520 Speaker 1: Juan into the fold. This this takes up about It 753 00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:07,720 Speaker 1: extends about kilometers from the southern coast of China and 754 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,040 Speaker 1: maps out all of the all of the sea in 755 00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 1: that area. So countries that have borders along that sea, 756 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:19,240 Speaker 1: like the Philippines or well there Southeast Asian countries are 757 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:24,959 Speaker 1: Japan as well obviously think this is cutting into their 758 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,919 Speaker 1: peace of the Oceanic pie. So the reason they think 759 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,200 Speaker 1: that is because, due to the u n Convention on 760 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:34,920 Speaker 1: the Law of the Sea, countries have what's called an 761 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 1: exclusive Economics Owner EZ that goes up to two d 762 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,200 Speaker 1: nautical miles or again for anybody outside of the United States. 763 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:47,800 Speaker 1: Myanmar and namibiav kilometers off their coast or around their islands. 764 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:52,920 Speaker 1: So it is true that China has been building artificial 765 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:58,680 Speaker 1: islands to reinforce these claims. Anyway, we can talk about 766 00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,840 Speaker 1: this for a while, but the situation is clearly unsustainable 767 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,879 Speaker 1: and it's unfortunately not a unique situation. Thanks so much 768 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,759 Speaker 1: for writing to us, Tyler, and that's the end of 769 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,840 Speaker 1: this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions 770 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 1: about this episode, you can get into contact with us 771 00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,320 Speaker 1: in a number of different ways. One of the best 772 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,200 Speaker 1: is to give us a call. Our number is one 773 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,120 Speaker 1: eight three three std w y t K. If you 774 00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,000 Speaker 1: don't want to do that, you can send us a 775 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,479 Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart 776 00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,000 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know. 777 00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,160 Speaker 1: Is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts 778 00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,439 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the i heart radio app, 779 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,400 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.