WEBVTT - Tom Bailey 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.360 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left That's podcast. 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.599 I'm really excited today because my guest is the cultural force, 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:22.640 the innovator in the Thompson Twins. Tom Bailey, Hello, good okay. 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:25.919 I remember seeing you with the Greek and the rumor 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:29.520 was that someone had cut off your ponytail and you 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:32.800 were wearing a fake ponytail. What's the real story there? 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.919 It was self inflicted actually, because there were a few 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.279 attempts to capture my ponytail as a kind of trophy 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:42.239 or something, you know. And I actually did get to 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:44.159 the stage where someone was creeping up behind me with 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:46.199 a pair of scissors, and I thought, you know, this 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:51.440 could end up in a sad way, so I cut 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.120 it off myself. And then everyone said you can't do that. 0:00:56.640 --> 0:00:58.240 And I think for a while I had a fake one, 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:01.360 but it didn't last long. I what a question to 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:03.520 start with, buff right? You know, as I say that, 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:05.360 that was back, you know, before the Internet, when you 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:09.280 fought for every tidbit from the rock press and we 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.039 uh strayed to the important issue exactly. So you're in 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:15.720 l A. Now, what are you up to these days? Well, 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:19.000 I just spent the Southern Hemisphere summer in New Zealand, 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:21.120 which is what I do every year, and I'm heading 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.839 back to Europe, so this trip brings me halfway home. 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.600 And okay, so how many gigs did you do uh 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:33.520 in New Zealand, Australia, etcetera. None. I did one private 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:37.360 gate for a friend, just to help them out. And okay, 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:39.800 well let's go back. You live there, now, that's one 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.080 of your houses. Yeah? Yeah, Well what I do is 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.720 I live in France, Okay, in the mountains, in the mountains, 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:49.000 like the Alps, the Pyrenees. Oh really, down by Spain, 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:52.400 that's right. Are you a skier? No, I'm not, because 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.760 we're diverting from the story here. But I broke both 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.080 my thumbs on a ski slope once and I couldn't 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.280 play the piano for six months, and that kind put 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:03.880 me off. Whenever I've tried subsequently, I just think I'm 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.080 not enjoying this. How long ago did you break your thumbs? 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:13.320 Twenty years? Okay? So you basically live in France, okay, 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:15.360 in the mountains, but it gets so cold and like 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:17.840 it goes to minus twenty five in the winter, right, Okay, 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:19.960 this is an old stone house it's not a place 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.399 to be when it gets to minus study five, right, 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.480 And we also have a place in New Zealand, so 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.200 it makes a lot of sense to go and catch 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.800 the southern summer then, and which I landed New Zealand 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:35.080 and the North Island in Auckland City, right, Okay, So 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:37.600 where are you from? Originally in the north of England. 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.160 I was born in Hannif. I was kind of brought 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.880 up in South Yorkshire, North Derbyshire. Okay. Now, if you 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:45.800 live in England, we're familiar with all those things. For 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.840 the English listeners. For an American listener, where he is, okay, 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.840 conjure up a kind of bleak, northern, grim industrial landscape 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.160 with me standing in the middle of it. And what 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.960 did your parents do for a living? Um? That all 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:03.280 my family medical? My fat it was a public health epidemiologist. 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:08.600 My mother was the nursing matron of a hospital. My 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:13.480 younger sister is a sexual health doctor. My elder sister 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:19.520 after care bone specialist. So what happened to you? But 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.440 if there's anything wrong with you, come to me first. Okay. 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:26.120 So you're in the middle child, I am, yeah, okay, 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.600 So you grow up? Is there music in the house. Yeah, 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:31.639 very much, especially from my father, you know, who was 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:35.720 a kind of keen amateur organist, actually a kind of 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:41.240 church organ and choir guy. Um. He wasn't particularly religious. 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:43.640 I think he grew up in a kind of small 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.240 northern industrial community where you had to go to church 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.600 otherwise you weren't part of the community. Um, and he 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:51.839 chose to get involved in that side of things rather 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.440 than the religious side, which seems like a smart move 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.040 to me, I think. And I did a similar thing, 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:00.560 you know. I went to church and I was in 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.960 the choir and learning about all of that stuff. Okay, 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.760 we're similar ages, and there was certainly no in the 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:10.960 in America. What you did. We had a transistor radio. 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.400 You put it under your pillow and you listen to 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.240 the baseball game, okay, and then all of a sudden 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.279 the Beatles hit. Okay. What was it like living in 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.400 the UK because we're of similar ages. Well, we didn't 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:25.400 have baseball, that's for sure, but we did have offshore 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:29.119 pirate radio stations like Luxembourg and things like that, which 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.440 became the thing to listen to under your pillow, and 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:36.679 it was an incredibly exciting moment. Um. I can remember 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.359 hearing bands like the Beatles for the first time in 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:43.920 that very way, and it changed everyone's lives, right, It 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.880 certainly changed our lives. I mean, we're here in America, 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.680 we're still running another fumes of the Beatles. So you 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.719 listen to the Beatles, you're like seven years old. Does 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:56.320 that incite you to play or want to make music? No? 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:57.760 Infact I was a little bit of a stick in 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.279 them because I had a classical music training, right, so 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.800 it was a little bit of an unbearable snob at 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:07.039 seven years old and refusing to to really enjoy what 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:08.800 was happening with the Beatles. I got into the Middles 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:12.680 a little late. So after the after the kind of 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.640 public song era, I was into the psychedelic era. Really, Now, 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.760 were you into any other bands at that time? The 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.200 Rolling Stones where there's a plethora of British as we 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.839 call British invasion acts, so many things, I mean, the 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.080 Beatles first, to be honest, down the Stones, and then 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.160 into all of the kind of counterculture bands of the 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:34.479 time when rock and roll meant something to do with 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.719 changing the world. Right. Oh, you know, I remember those days. 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:40.360 You know, people will always say, now, oh, you're too 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.560 old you don't get it, they said, no, we live 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:47.360 through something like you live through. The internet really changed everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:50.800 of course. And it's the funny thing to to note that. 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:53.200 I think one way of saying is that the kind 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:57.200 of search lamp of culture, the searchlight falls on different 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.240 things at different times. I remember, for example, for UPL 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:02.560 in the eighties, suddenly, to be in a dance club 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.359 it was like the hippest thing in the world, not 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.599 as if they hadn't existed before, but there was something 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:10.120 going on where things changed, and it was to do 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.240 with the kind of music was being played, the kind 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:16.279 of behavior that was suddenly allowed, and the display of 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:21.839 sexuality that was allowed suddenly. So wow. For a few years, 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:26.280 dance clubs were the critical marketplace for ideas, and then 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:28.800 suddenly it wasn't. How when you say that, are you 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.920 talking about like the Menchester sound and that stuff before that? 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:38.040 Even before that, Yeah, I think suddenly I remember, you know, 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.000 going to clubs in London and bumping into people that 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:45.080 subsequently became world famous, like George and they was hanging 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.320 around in clubs and well, okay, so but let's go 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:51.240 back to the North. So you're there and are you 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:56.880 like a good student. I'm the laziest students in the world. 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.600 I think. I think it was fascinated by music and 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.359 not else. But I had a kind of bleak northern 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:07.960 classical education, and um, some of it rubbed off, I guess. 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.640 So you're still a snob today. Now you know the 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:16.760 terms are flipped between the UK and the US. Did 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.160 you go to a public school, private school or did 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:21.240 you go to a public school? Well? I went to 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:22.920 what you call a public school, and we call a 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:27.160 private school the government school. Yeah, okay, a grammar school 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:31.720 we call them. Okay. And how long did you go for? Well? 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:35.200 I did the whole high school thing. Then what about college? 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:37.080 And then I went to college and studied music and 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:41.240 fine arts. Okay, so you graduated from college. Yeah, okay. 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:43.240 This is something you wanted to do or you were 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:47.280 doing for your parents. I think it was a bit 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:49.200 of both. I mean, I think they wanted me to 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.560 probably to go and study medicine or something much more academic, 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:55.240 and I kind of chiseled away until I got an 0:07:55.240 --> 0:08:00.120 offer to do music and art, which is with my loves. So, um, 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:03.000 I went to college to please them, but chose the 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:06.520 wrong subjects. Okay, well that you know, that's rare. We 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.560 always hear about people dropping out the UK and becoming musicians. 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.800 So you go to college, you finished college, then what's 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.720 the next step. I go to India to study yoga 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:20.200 and meditation. Okay, well you know, putting out my father's had. 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.800 First thing would say is an American? Well how did 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:27.440 you pay for that? Um? I guess I worked, you know, 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:29.960 like holiday jobs and saved money until I had enough 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:32.480 to go and I couldn't afford to fly. I went overland. 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.360 It took me seven weeks to get from London to 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:39.240 New Delhi. Okay, like the New Delhi free trainers. Little 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.199 feet would say, how do you how do you actually 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:44.560 get from London to Delhi? Go to Thrust from Amsterdam? 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:46.760 And like I said, it took seven weeks and it 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:51.560 took me through all sorts of near death experiences. Wait 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:55.199 a second, So you get the Amsterdam by train by 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.480 boat in trosen train now and then you're on a 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:01.040 bus for like six or seven weeks. What happens at night? 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.680 You sleep on the bus and is it the same 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.640 bus or you keep changing the same bus? And did 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:11.160 you go alone? No? With you know, thirty five hippies. 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:14.800 But but with all thirty five hippies were going from 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.439 me Amsterdam. But in terms of leaving the UK, did 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.440 you leave with thirty five people? No? No, No, half 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.520 a dozen people that I knew. And one friend in 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:25.719 particular who was a subsequent member of the Thompson to 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:28.280 was John Rugue. But we're both guitarists. We took our 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.720 guitars with us and we kind of paid our way 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.199 by playing basically, Okay, but you're on a bus for 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.240 six weeks, seven weeks? Yeah, Well, it did stop occasionally, 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:41.520 and he would stop occasionally, like for a day or 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:44.319 like a pit stop something like that. And so we 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.600 got to Afghanistan actually, and then um, I did spend 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.960 some time they're waiting for another bus to to take over, 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.760 which is a long, long story other people have asked 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.559 me about and I think I'll save that for writing 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:02.960 the books sometimes. Well, did sub think bad happen there? Yeah? Yeah, yeah? 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.160 And did you feel your life was threatened? Um? Oh, 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:12.080 very very definitely. Yeah, but you survived somehow and the 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:15.600 guitar was my constant companion. And okay, and how well 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:20.840 did you play before you get out of the bus um. God, 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.160 that's not for me to say, but I probably did 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.760 improve by having to play for my life on a 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:27.760 couple of occasions. And so then when it took seven 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:29.400 weeks to get there, then you were in India for 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:33.880 how long? Six months? Six months? Going where I went 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:38.320 to Rishikesh to see where the Beatles had been in 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:44.760 the astram with the Maharsh Maharishi mai Um in a 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:49.520 place called shank and there was a sign that said 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:54.600 fabulous beetles were here, and I knew I had landed. 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.560 But of course though those that era had passed, but 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:00.520 we were you know, we were kids wanted to learn 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.719 meditation and strong guitars and hang out and eat vegetarian 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:07.480 food and it was fabulous. Well well, but then you 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:10.360 traveled around India a little bit. Yes, I went down 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:13.120 south and then back up to the north. But it 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:16.000 actually started a love affair with Indian music that that 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:18.120 persisted to this day, you know. So I got to 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.640 India regularly and work with musicians and that's part of 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.040 my kind of labor of love that well, the first 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.199 time I went to India was just last summer. It's 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.199 just a fascinating place, isn't it. I mean, you're afraid 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:32.640 of getting sick, but it's where I was. Griffin was 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.360 won by you felt relatively safe. Yeah, but I mean 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:37.160 everyone gets a bit sick sometimes, you know, you wear 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:40.520 it with pride, I think, okay. So then it takes 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:44.080 seven weeks to get back from India. No, somehow, I 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.520 think there was a bit of scrabbling around for loose 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.360 cash and we managed to get cheap plane tickets. I 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:51.840 actually got very ill and there was a point where 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:55.040 I thought, you know what, I'm not getting better. Maybe 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.120 I should go back and faced My father, of course, 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.000 was the doctor, had a lot of stern words about 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:04.320 what we've been up to all the rest of it. Okay, 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:06.959 but then you obviously got better. Yeah, And what was 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:11.400 the next step? Um? I think I went to live 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:13.480 down in the southwest of England and was into kind 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:18.480 of experimental music, kind of work, shopping with other experimentalists, 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.920 and then I got a call from some old school friends, 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:26.760 including the guy i've into India with, and basically punk 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.440 had happened. And the thing about point was it gave 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:33.160 us permission to instead of looking at and watching other 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.479 bands doing it, it it gave us permission to do it ourselves, 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.880 so there was a very democratizing effect regardless of the 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.600 style of the music. It was like, have a go time, right, 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:43.440 you didn't have to be good. He's like even Lester 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:47.560 Banks was a musician playing his typewriter. So I don't know. 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:52.320 Before that, maybe it was just to beyond the dream 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:53.839 of a of a kind of regular guy from the 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.920 north of England. You know, that's what something that millionaires do, 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:00.440 and and we couldn't do it. But suddenly we could, 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:04.280 and so we had to go and we had the 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.439 original Thompson Twins, which was well, well, let's slow. You're 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:09.880 in the southwest of England. Yeah, I moved back up 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.640 to where I was raised in Chesterfield, Derbyshire. Yeah. Okay, 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.800 so then you're there and you're working jobs at this point. Yeah. 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.560 I worked in a psychiatric hospital and then as a 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:24.400 teacher for a while, okay, and then you ultimately go 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:28.480 to London. Yeah. And if you look up legendarily it 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:31.480 says you were a squatter. Is that true? Absolutely, that's 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.680 the only way we could afford that done. In fact, 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.800 it was a lifeline to all sorts of creative activity 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:41.839 for many many people, you know, because by living for free, 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.920 you basically had time on your hands to be creative, 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.120 whereas if you paid rent, suddenly you know, you were 0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.600 working every day and coming home exhausted and blah blah blah. 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:55.079 So it caused and in my in my street of 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:59.160 squatted houses, I think there was six or eight bands really, 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.240 so it really was a kind of hothouse of that 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.000 kind of activity. Okay, you know this is not something 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:09.640 most people do in America, So it's an abending building. Yeah, okay, 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:14.360 what about like electricity and water. Well, there was a 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:18.679 peculiar de facto loophole in this in this argument where 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:22.080 the buildings were owned by the city council and they 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.560 thought that it was better to have people living in 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.280 them because a they looked after the buildings, be they 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:30.480 didn't go into the homeless register. So it was a 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.520 kind of, like I said, de facto solution to a 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.200 big problem. And as long as you didn't trash the 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.400 place for a while, at least they were happy and 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.880 it was a safe situation. Well I'm not saying that 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:48.200 exactly because you know, inevitably it was also the landing 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.880 place for a lot of desperate characters. You know, so 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:52.880 you had to be ready to jump out of bed 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.320 in the middle of the night sometimes. Okay, So you 0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:00.920 moved down because you're friend from school went to India says, 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:04.400 now's the time. Um, I know. I moved back up 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.920 to Chester Villa, Derbyshire, where we'd all been at school together, 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.760 formed the band, then moved the band down to London, 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:13.680 you know, in seeking success because you know it's like 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.800 coming to Hollywood or something. Okay, but it was the 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.920 the punk era. But did you really think you could 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:27.120 have success? Yeah? I think so, as I'm saying that, 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.120 there was something about the punk era which said anyone 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.520 can have a go and look, there are bands making 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:37.160 it that are just doing it with three chords. You 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.280 don't have to be a kind of diamond encrusted jazz 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:45.760 enthusiastics in order to get through. So before the punk era, 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:49.400 did you think you were going to be a professional musician? Yeah, 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:54.560 but not in a band. Well we're doing what probably teaching. Okay, 0:15:55.560 --> 0:16:01.080 So you didn't wake up with dreams of stardom. I 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:03.280 think it ended up that way once it's kind of 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:07.960 tasted the kind of flavor of that. I mean, it's 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:11.080 a very alluring thing, isn't it too? To be part 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.080 of something very exciting and to be adored for doing that, 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.800 um really hooks your ego like crazy, you know, and 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:21.560 and in a way that gives you the energy to 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.520 pursue and put the extra work in which it takes. 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:25.120 It takes a lot of hard work to do this, 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:30.320 So you can't do it unless somehow you're totally enthusiastic. Okay, 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.800 so there were six like six billions in the Squats. 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.280 Then other than yourself and your meat, did anybody else 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.600 make it from that error? Yes, the Slits and the 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:43.560 pop group the Slits, there was. The woman in the 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.560 Slits wrote that book a couple of years ago. She's 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:51.240 a great writer. Okay, so now you're in the squat, 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:55.480 you're rehearsing every day. Yeah, what's the next step after that? 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:57.800 I was just looking for gigs everywhere, and then, you know, 0:16:57.840 --> 0:16:59.960 as soon as we can, we buy an old try 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.640 can old van, and then we start to buy bits 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.879 and pieces of p A equipment, just so that if 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.880 anyone wants a gig, we can just offer the whole solution. 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.320 You know, have van m p A will travel was 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:14.800 the kind of motto of the moment um. So we 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.879 did that for a while and then started releasing our 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:22.240 own singles on our own Okay, first question, you weren't 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.800 worried about all that p p A equipment getting stolen? Well, yeah, 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:30.520 but we put paddlelocks on the doors of the Okay, 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.240 and now you wanted to make a record. What do 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.560 you do for money? What do you do for studio? Producer? Engineer? 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.240 We begged and borrowed time from a friend who had 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:45.200 access to a studio and someone who eventually became our publisher. 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:47.919 I was starting out in the music business and had 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.120 a little studio and things, so yeah, they gave us time, 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.240 and we did the first record that way, and then 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.680 slowly but surely we were chopping around for a deal 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.560 and it's you know, it came, but not not in 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:02.560 one big kind of arrival moment. We had to work 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:03.960 hard for it, and in fact, we put out a 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.640 couple of albums before we had any kind of hit. 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.240 But we were well known in the kind of student 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:14.280 venue circuit for putting on a good show. How many 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.360 shows were you playing at that time? I have no idea. 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.919 We're playing a lot or a little a lot? Yeah, okay, 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:26.960 would you play any covers? Were all original? I? Was 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:28.680 going to say all original, but there were a couple 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:33.440 of occasions when we played covers um just for fun, 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:39.639 but nothing that became well known for us to play. 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:45.960 So then how do you get a record deal? Well, 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.040 in those days you just just kind of trail around 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:52.800 the record companies with a cassette and throw cassette, give 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:54.960 them cassettes and watch them throw them over their shoulders 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:57.560 kind of thing. And I think the magic moment was 0:18:57.600 --> 0:19:00.760 instead of giving them a cassette, you have your independent 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.880 release single and they reluctantly will have to listen to that. 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:07.840 People like John Peel started playing us on the radio. 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:13.800 We got some an unexpected and unpaid for promotion that way, 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:16.879 and then suddenly a record company goes, oh that's of interest, 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.040 and we signed, actually with the German company called Hanser 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:22.760 did an album, but we were distributed in the UK 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.320 through Arista, and we thought this is crazy what we 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.399 go when we really go go directly with Ariston and 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.040 we ended up on the label. Okay, when did you 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.480 get a manager? Oh around about that time, I think 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:37.679 when we were looking for the deal, and he was 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.520 another college friend. You know, just how long was he 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:46.000 the manager? Through the hit years and where is he today? 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:48.919 He lives in England and in the southwest of England. 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:53.520 Not in the music business an right, Okay, so you're 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:58.440 you're making progress, but on some level you're struggling. Yeah, 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.320 because we hadn't made it yet with a position in 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:05.480 any chart. Okay. So was there tension in the band, 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:10.320 people threatening to quit, etcetera. It came to that, but 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:12.919 there was a kind of embarrassing moment that brought this 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:15.640 all to the four and in our second album, which 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:20.000 luckily we got produced by Steve Lilly White, which was 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.000 an amazing kind of step forward for for people in 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:27.520 our situation. This was before now, this was actually on Arista, 0:20:27.920 --> 0:20:30.399 but we hadn't yet had a hit. Okay, so we 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:32.320 were just doing our thing. Did you get lily White? 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:38.760 He must have liked us. I don't know. These things happen. Um, 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:42.760 So we're making an album and we didn't have enough 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:46.920 material and at that moment I just got enough money 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:51.200 to buy a synthesizer. So during the time of those 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:54.120 albums sessions, I was at home with a synthesizer, which 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:57.240 what was the synthesizer? It was an Oberheim b x 0:20:57.320 --> 0:21:02.040 A And for years that was the only SYNTHI ever you, okay, 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.000 because it was quite expensive and I couldn't afford more. 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:09.640 But anyway, at home, I wrote this song on the synthesizer, 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:13.040 which I thought, this is catchy, it's not like the 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.480 other stuff. But when we ran out of enough material 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:18.440 for the album, I said to everyone in the band, 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.280 it's all right, I've got this other song, and what 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:24.040 I'll do is I'll come in and teach you parts 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:28.120 to replace what I played on the synthesizer, which we did, 0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:30.800 and it became this dance track call in the Name 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:35.119 of Love unbelievable. It will really white produce that he did, Yeah, okay, 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:39.879 in the Name jumped out of the radio. There you go. Well. 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.239 The embarrassing thing was it was supposed to be the 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:44.639 filler at the end of side and it ended up 0:21:44.680 --> 0:21:53.360 being the big international dance hit that in a way 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:56.280 was writing on the wall for me that I needed 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:59.480 to pursue this more kind of what I thought of 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:03.639 as a high tech approach to making music. And within 0:22:03.880 --> 0:22:06.879 a few months of I think, we toured for a while. 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:08.919 But within a few months of that the band had 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:13.480 kind of imploded. It wasn't what it used to be anymore. 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.439 And basically the three of us that became the famous 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:18.880 Thompson Twins if you like that, Myself, Joe and Alana. 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:27.680 We we became this kind of studio unit in which 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:29.879 we realized for the first time that we weren't a 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:33.000 band that had to write parts for us to play. 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:36.320 We were designers of records. And that was a kind 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:40.000 of transforming realization. Suddenly we weren't thinking, well, what's the 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:42.520 guitarist going to do in this So one of the 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:45.120 first things we did was make an album without any guitars, 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:49.040