1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: It's the Big Take from Bloomberg News and iHeart Radio. 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: I'm West Cosova. Today our second look at TikTok, this 3 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: time through the eyes of a teen influencer. In November, 4 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: Bloomberg investigative reporter Olivia Carville came on the podcast. She 5 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: told the story of children who have died copying challenges 6 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: that can be seen on TikTok, the enormously popular video 7 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: social platform that has more than a billion users around 8 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: the world. TikTok doesn't want those videos on its app, 9 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: and it tries to find and delete them. As Olivia 10 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: dug deeper into TikTok's culture, she discovered another vast corner 11 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: of the app where young video creators pushed the boundary 12 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: in a different way, and where the decisions the company 13 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: makes about what videos to take down and which one 14 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: is to leave up aren't is clear cut. I asked 15 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: Olivia to come back on the show to talk about 16 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: what she calls teen TikTok. Well, teen TikTok is a complicated, 17 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: sometimes scary, very strange world. You can go into rabbit 18 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: holes using TikTok looking at all the content that pops up, 19 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 1: and some of it is really cool. And uplifting and fun. 20 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: Hence some of it is just downright frightening. For the story, 21 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: I was focused on the hyper sexualization of minors, and 22 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: I was looking at how TikTok as a platform moderates 23 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: content from mainly young girls hosting very sexually suggestive videos. 24 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: In her second story about TikTok for Bloomberg Business Week, 25 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: Olivia writes about a hugely popular teen TikTok star. She's 26 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 1: a sixteen year old girl who lives in Florida. Her 27 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: name is Rosalie Eritola on TikTok, though she goes by 28 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: a different name, Jenny Papach. That's how are millions of 29 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: followers know her. You'll hear us use both these names 30 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: throughout this episode. Hi, my name is Rosie Utola. Many 31 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: people may know me as Jenny Papa as well, and 32 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:35,079 Speaker 1: I am a content creator on TikTok and Instagram. She's 33 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: pretty sessy, she's you know, some of her content is 34 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 1: quite funny. She likes to poke fun at people. She's 35 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: quite bold, quite brazen for a young teenage girl. She 36 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: pushes back when people criticize her for wearing certain clothes 37 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: or dancing in a certain way. Or posting content with 38 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: sexually explicit lyrics, and she's actually come one of the 39 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: most controversial teen stars on the platform. If someone goes 40 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: on her account, what sort of videos are they likely 41 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: to see there? If you were to open the Jenny 42 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: pop pett account right now, you would see a sixteen 43 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: year old girl who is posting videos of her daily life. 44 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: And many of her clips she's dancing or lip sinking 45 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: or joking, or she's acting the full or dressing up 46 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: or playing with her brothers and her parents. But if 47 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: you start scrolling through her content and really looking at 48 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: the captions, looking at what she's saying, looking at some 49 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: of the sexual innu window that she's inserting into those captions, 50 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: or listening to the lyrics of the songs that she's 51 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: lip sinking too, or looking at some of the clothing 52 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: choices that she's wearing, or the style of dance that 53 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: she's doing. What Jenny Pope Petch has really been doing 54 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: is leaning in to this kind of bad girl persona 55 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: or trying to post content that contains shock value, And 56 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: from her perspective, shock value is doing what you can 57 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: to get the audience talking, to get them to pause 58 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: and rewatch and comment on your video because Rosaliera Toland 59 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: knows that's going to get her more popularity on TikTok. 60 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: That's what the algorithm wants. Content that is controversial, shocking 61 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: that people are going to want to talk about. And 62 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: that's exactly what she's been posting for the last few years. 63 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: For pretty much her whole life, she's wanted to become 64 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: social media famous. She was quite a good belly dancer 65 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 1: when she was quite a young child, and she would 66 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: perform on Musically in Musically was bought by Bite Dance, 67 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: which is the owner of TikTok, and suddenly those young 68 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: video makers and musically at a far bigger stage, you know. 69 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: But I didn't have any intention of like getting bigger 70 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: or anything. It kind of just started to happen when 71 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: I do ddit. This girl Leah Leah Louie, she was 72 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 1: a contact creator on Musically belly Dancer, and then I 73 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: became this like persona of mini Leah Louis, so I 74 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: was like the mini version of her, and that was 75 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: like really pushed out and then that began to be 76 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: like my niche and what everybody was watching me for. 77 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: And then I have my own set of videos where 78 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: I was really dancing and I kind of just started 79 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: really out, like twelve, and when you got up to 80 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: three million views, how old were you at the time, 81 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: I was twelve. When you look at the Genie Pope 82 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: pech profile on TikTok today, she's got almost seven million followers, 83 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: which is a huge number for a sixteen year old girl. 84 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: Do we know who's watching these videos? Are the other teens? 85 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 1: Are the adults? I think about of Jennie Pope as 86 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: followers male, And when you look in the adult and 87 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: rage of her followers more than fifty men, So she 88 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: has hundreds of thousands of adult men watching her content 89 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 1: on a daily basis. I really try not to read 90 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: those comments from the Alderman, but when I do see them, 91 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: I kind of just like uncomfortable, and I'll give the 92 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: phone to my mom and she'll just delete it, or 93 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: I'll delete it and I'll just move past and forget 94 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: about it, because I'm just like, I don't want to 95 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: have that energy in my life. Give us a PG. 96 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: Thirteen version of some of the comments you get that 97 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: would make you feel uncomfortable. You were with me right now, 98 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: I would do this and that to you, okay, right 99 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: around now, you might be asking yourself, what do Rosalie's 100 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: parents think about all this? Olivia told me she went 101 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: to Florida to meet Rosalie and her family. When it 102 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: comes to Rosalie Eritoler, not only is her mother watching, 103 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: her mother's actually encouraging her. How did this account become, 104 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: you know, so famous and also so contraver herschel at 105 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: the same time. And that controversy, a lot of it 106 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: stems from the relationship that she has with her mother, 107 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: which is included in a lot of her TikTok post 108 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: Sometimes her mom is dancing just as suggestively alongside Rosalie 109 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: in the Jennie Pope patch account. And I think that 110 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: her mom is really instrumental in the Jenny Pope Patch 111 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: account and has helped build it to you know, reaching 112 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: seven million followers, helping her choose her outfits, driving her 113 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: to swanky locations to film in like the Ritz Carlton, 114 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: allowing her to drop out of school and be homeschooled 115 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: so she can focus on her TikTok career. My name 116 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: is Mario. Last year, I am forty two years old. Um, 117 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm twenty two. I have six kids, 118 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: and I'm the mother of Jenni per Patch, my amazing daughter, 119 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: you know. I I said to her, does it bother 120 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: you that your daughter, at the age of ten had 121 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: five hundred thousand followers online who were watching her do 122 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: belly dancing videos. And she said, no, it didn't bother 123 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: me at all, she said, she reveled in it. In 124 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: the back of my mind for many many years, I 125 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: was like, I'm going to be famous. But it kind 126 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: of was like my my ship had had sailed in 127 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: that sense, you know. And so I believe in destiny, 128 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: and I believe in manifestation, and I believe that Rosalie 129 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: is that just how does this type of fame happen? 130 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: By the age of thirteen, Rosalie and her mother really 131 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:47,079 Speaker 1: wanted to help her become a bona fide influencer. They 132 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: wanted her to become social media famous, and the best 133 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: way to do that, they thought, was to fly out 134 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: to l a and try and come up with a 135 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: similar concept to the hype house. For those who are 136 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: listening who may not understand what the hype houses, which 137 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: I assume as a lot of people out there, This 138 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: was a mansion in California, where the most popular TikTok 139 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: stars in the world would well in America at least, 140 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 1: would live in together to film content and help one 141 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: another's accounts grow. So there was a bunch of teenagers 142 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: just filming TikTok's in this mansion in California, and Rosalie 143 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: and her mom flew out and decided that they wanted 144 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: to make a hype house for minors. She was only 145 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: thirteen at the time, so they wanted to create a 146 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: similar concept with a bunch of twelve thirteen year olds 147 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: who had big TikTok following and all lived together in 148 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: a home and build content. What they did is they 149 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: actually sneaked into the original hype House and filmed videos 150 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: from the bathrooms and balconies, the places that her own 151 00:09:54,760 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: idols had really immortalized on TikTok, and those videos viral. 152 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: This resulted in the Jenny Poet account really blowing up, 153 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: and unfortunately for the wrong reasons. At that time, people 154 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: criticized her for breaking into the hype House, for stalking 155 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: the hype House creators, for stealing their clothes. One of 156 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: these creators, who had millions of followers, said that she 157 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: flushed his fish down the toilet. She denied all of 158 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: this and said that a caretaker had led her into 159 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: the property. But that controversy really propelled her account to 160 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: reach more than a million followers for the first time, 161 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: and that taught her to lean into this bad girl 162 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: persona to post content that's controversial, it's risky that other 163 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: people aren't posting, and she quickly realized, you know, that's 164 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: the way to become an influencer. So after that moment, 165 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: her content dramatically changed and it became a lot more 166 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: you know, sexual, new window and her captions, her dance 167 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: moves were more suggestive, her clothing was more revealing, and 168 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: she was really gaming the algorithm in a way. She 169 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: knew that she would be rewarded if she posted content 170 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: that got people talking, so the algorithm actually incentivized her 171 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: to behave in this way and rewarded her by doing so. 172 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: So then if we fast forward to what her account 173 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: is like now as a sixteen year old, she's posting 174 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: content that to her is kind of normalized. This is 175 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: what she's been doing for years, and she doesn't think 176 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: there's anything wrong with it. Where is Rosalie's father in 177 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: all of this? Rosalie's father is there. He's present, He's 178 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: in some of her clips. Her most successful TikTok post 179 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: is actually her doing quite a sexually suggestive dance and 180 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: he picks her up and carries her out of the frame, 181 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: acting as though he's shocked by what she's doing. That 182 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: got a hundred and sixty million views on tick too, 183 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: and her dad is supporting her. He's proud of her. 184 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: He thinks that if this is going to help her 185 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: make money, get her through college, make her a bit 186 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: of person, then why not you heard Olivia mentioned money 187 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: just now. That's another element of this story. Creators can't 188 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: receive money directly from TikTok unless they're over the age 189 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: of eighteen, but some brands are eager to capitalize on 190 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: their fame and reach their followers. Yeah, tein talk is 191 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: big business. These influences are making tens of thousands of 192 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: dollars in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars a 193 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: month because their following is so big. So Rosalie Ertoler 194 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: has brand deals with a number of fashion outlets, from 195 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: Fashion Over to she in Too Pretty Little Thing. She 196 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: just released a clothing line with empty soda. She's got 197 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: a little baby pink miniskirt with a matching top with 198 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: a cutout love heart in the middle, and she's advertised 199 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: using it on TikTok and encouraging her followers, her seven 200 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: million followers to go and buy it. Is part of 201 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: the encouragement that Rosalie gets from her parents, the money 202 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: that she makes from this. I remember asking Maria about 203 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: that directly, and she said, the first time they got 204 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: a brand deal, she actually ran into Rosalie's room screaming, 205 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: we made it. You know what I mean, We made 206 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 1: it like ten you know, ten grand for five posts. 207 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it's insane, dude. Um, it's the norm for me. 208 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: Now it's the norm for us. You know, We've got 209 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: this ten thousand dollar brand deal. This means that you're 210 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: an influencer and everyone was wrong and we did it. 211 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: And they feel as though they had finally achieved a 212 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: huge milestone in life. Usually I make from a company, 213 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: what I make from a company is maybe like tens 214 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: of fifteen, depending on how much they're willing to pay. 215 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 1: And then and that's not for like some promos. That's 216 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: like brand deals like clothing brands and promoting like a 217 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:03,839 Speaker 1: product or something, and then um and total. I'm not 218 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: sure how much I've made over the past year, but 219 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: I know right now in my seevings I have like 220 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: about thirty safter So these fashion companies actually stand to 221 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: make a lot of money from creators like Rosalieeritola or 222 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: you know her Jenny Pope patch account, because it's a 223 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: brilliant marketing strategy to encourage the creators themselves to be 224 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: your advertisement. No longer do we have to pay for 225 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: television advertisements. You can just pay a creator like Jenny 226 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: Pope Petch to wear a dress in one of her videos, 227 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: and seven million people are going to see it, and 228 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: they're going to want to be like her. They're going 229 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: to want to be wearing the clothes that she's wearing, 230 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: and maybe they're going to go and buy that item 231 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: when we come back. I talked to Olivia about some 232 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: of the people who aren't such big fans of Jenny 233 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: Popatch and her fame, and what life is like for 234 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: the kid behind the persona. We've heard Olivia describe how 235 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: Jenny Papach is a larger than life character in her 236 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: videos on TikTok, but just how does this play out 237 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: in the day to day real life of Rosalie Aratola. 238 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: I've been looking at her posts for months before I 239 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: traveled down there, and I've been seeing a lot of 240 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: comments on her posts from concerned followers, people who genuinely 241 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: believed that her life was in danger. They thought that 242 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: she had been kidnapped, or that she was being stalked, 243 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: or that her parents were forcing her to perform in 244 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 1: this way. People are convinced that in some of her videos, 245 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: she's actually mouthing the words help to her audience before 246 00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: she starts dancing. And as I was looking through this account, 247 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: reading these comments, I decided that I actually wanted to 248 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: get a sense of who she was and where does 249 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: this controversy stem from, and what does she think about 250 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: all this? And I was quite surprised at the girl 251 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: that I met. She was very eloquent, very well spoken. 252 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: I assumed by watching her content that she was going 253 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: to open the door in a skin type body suit 254 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: or a mini skirt with her two inch fake nails on, 255 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: and you know, her hair extensions in and a full 256 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: face of makeup. But she was in this baggy hoodie. 257 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: She hadn't even brushed her here, She had no makeup 258 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: on she was very natural. She looked like a child. 259 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: She looked a lot younger than what she does in 260 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: her content on TikTok Um. Some of the pros and 261 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: cons of being an influencer was like a lot of 262 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: followers six seven billion, you don't really know who to 263 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: trust as far. I feel like it's just very hard 264 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: to create genuine friendships, and it's hard to feel like 265 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: you even have genuine and that everything is now transactional. 266 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 1: It's been quite challenging for her to actually make friends. 267 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: She feels as though anyone who is nice to her 268 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: and tries to befriend her is only doing so because 269 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: they want to increase their own following. They want to 270 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 1: be in a video with Jenny Pope Patch and you know, 271 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: use her effectively. Well, I feel like it's easy for Jenny. 272 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I mean, I find it easier to 273 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: find collaborators, but I don't consider every person I collab 274 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: with a friend because I feel like a friend is 275 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: somebody you call and you hang out with them every day, 276 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,199 Speaker 1: and you trust them and you feel like you can 277 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: trust them with your personal experiences and your personal thoughts, 278 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: and you're not afraid to be yourself with them, and 279 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: I don't find myself like that with a lot of 280 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: the people I collab with. And when I saw her 281 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: personality online, she comes across as confident, outgoing, empowered, aware 282 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: of who she is and what she wants in life, 283 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 1: but when you meet her in person, she's less sure 284 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: of herself. She mentioned that she has seven million followers 285 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: but no real friends. What does TikTok say about the 286 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: guidelines about Jenny's account and about making decisions about where 287 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: to leave up and what to take down. TikTok says, 288 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: it's guidelines are really clear and it's not wrong. You 289 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: can go on to its website and you can open 290 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: up the minor safety tab and see the specificity that 291 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: it goes into on its guidelines. TikTok doesn't comment on 292 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: individual accounts for privacy reasons, so it wouldn't make any 293 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: comment about the Jennie Poe Patch account or tell me 294 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: why it deactivated her account twice where it reactivated it twice. 295 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: TikTok didn't want to weigh in on that, but it 296 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: says that it has very strict minor safety policies and 297 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: it encourages all of its content moderate is to abide 298 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: by them. We'll hear more a bit later about what 299 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: the company does to enforce those guidelines, But there are 300 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: any number of so called vigilante parents on the platform 301 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 1: who have taken it upon themselves to try to police TikTok. 302 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: They flag videos they say violate the apps rules once 303 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: they feel our inappropriate content from minor to make and 304 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: for other kids and adults to be looking at. She's 305 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: also caught the attention of vigilantes or watchdog moms or 306 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 1: other creators who are scanning through TikTok looking for content 307 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: that highlights the dark side of influencer culture, that highlights 308 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 1: child exploitation on the air, and they are holding up 309 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 1: this Jenny Popetch account as an example of a young 310 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: creator who is doing inappropriate things and being rewarded by 311 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: TikTok's algorithm, which is pushing her onto the for you 312 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: page and increasing her popularity, increasing her fame, increasing her followers, 313 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: which in turn is resulting in her getting more and 314 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: more brand deals from fashion companies, more money, more fame, 315 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: and so it goes on. One of those people is 316 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: a woman named Sarah Adams. She's a mom who's gotten 317 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: quite a TikTok following herself for calling out what she 318 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: sees as problematic videos by Jenny Papa and other TikTok stars. 319 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: Olivia went to talk to her. I'm Sarah Adams. I 320 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: live in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, and I am mom 321 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 1: uncharted on tiktar. She's calling out not only the specific 322 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: accounts like the Jinny Pope petch account, but the parents, 323 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: the brands that are paying her, and the platforms like TikTok. 324 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: Why are you allowing this kind of content to stay up? Um? 325 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: I look at a lot of different issues, Um. The 326 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: three main ones that I always discuss our issues of privacy, 327 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: informed consent and safety. And the safety kind of goes 328 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: alongside with the sexualization of our young children. I think 329 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: there's a lot of sexualized content in regard to song choices, 330 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: style of dances, clothing poses. You know, it's not just clothing, 331 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: it's the clothing paired with the situation and the lyrics 332 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 1: and the dance moves. It's all of it. And a 333 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: lot of Sarah Adams posts she calls TikTok out for 334 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: not upholding it's minus safety guidelines and the most ironic 335 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: thing is that her own videos are actually being removed 336 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: for minus safety violations, but the original video she's posting 337 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: about will remain up. You mean they're being removed because 338 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: she's pointing to videos and on the basis of that content, 339 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: which hasn't been removed, her account is being remove That's right, 340 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: her account, her videos are being removed for highlighting what 341 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: she believes is problematic content being produced by children. I 342 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: am not sexualizing a child. I am letting you know 343 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: as a parent that there are people who are sexualizing 344 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: your children. And this is a public platform with a 345 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: billion people, including the worst of society. And what does 346 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: Rosalie say about this criticism. She feels as though people 347 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: are unfairly judging her and that she should be able 348 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: to do what she wants to do on the app. 349 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: She thinks that other creators who are highlighting her content 350 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: is problematic are actually sabotaging her career. And I think 351 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: it's really important to try and understand what these creators, 352 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 1: like Rosaliera tolder. What is the intention behind the posts? 353 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: Is she posting her content to try and be sexually 354 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: appealing or is she posting her content because that's who 355 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: she is? And this is what fifteen and sixteen year 356 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: old girls are doing. Now. This is kind of normalized 357 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,120 Speaker 1: for this age group. And the question I suppose is 358 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 1: does she understand the full implications of what she's doing 359 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: or does she not. From talking to Rosalie Aritoler, I 360 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: think she is aware of what she's posting. I think 361 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: she knows what she's doing, she knows what she's selling. 362 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: She's a very smart teenage girl, and she enjoys the fame. 363 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: She mentioned to me that she got over three point 364 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:50,600 Speaker 1: four million likes when she posted a video wearing Christmas 365 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 1: onesie and how exciting that was to her. TikTok. To 366 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: these kids, it's like a drug to them. It's so 367 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: easy to become addicted to an app where every day 368 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: it you know, feeds you the content that you want 369 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 1: to see, but also allows you to perform on this 370 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: huge stage and become famous. After spending a week with 371 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: with Rosalie and her mom, I felt like Rosalie really 372 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: wants to do this. This is the life that she 373 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: wants to have. Um, it's definitely satisfying to see that 374 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: your creation, you know, whatever your content creating is getting views, 375 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: it's getting likes, it's getting engagement in comments. Because you 376 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: make your original content, people like it, people start doing it. 377 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: You become a trendsetter, or you create trends, you make 378 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: twist to trends, and it feels good like I did that. 379 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: You know, I created something, people enjoyed it, and I 380 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: feel like the likes and the views and all of 381 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: that are just the product, Like you just see the 382 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: outcome like that. And where does that leave TikTok, the 383 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: platform that hosts all these trends. What's the company's stance 384 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: on this whole controversy. We talk about that when we return. 385 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: You know, when you look at the TikTok website and 386 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: you look at its community guidelines, they do have a 387 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 1: specific tab for minor safety, and they state very clearly 388 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: that you cannot post, upload, stream, or share any content 389 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,920 Speaker 1: that implies or depicts a minor in a sexual way. 390 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: That's including a minor with sexually explicit song lyrics or 391 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: content with sexually explicit dancing of a minor. And it 392 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: even specifies saying this includes twerking, breast shaking, pelvic thrust ng, 393 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 1: fondling of the briasts. So they're very specific about what 394 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: can stay on and what should come down. In response 395 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: to pressure from lawmakers, in February, TikTok said it would 396 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: place new restrictions on what it calls overtly sexually suggestive content. 397 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: It said users under sixteen would no longer be eligible 398 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: to appear on the apps for you page. That's this 399 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: algorithm curated feed that recommends videos to users. But users 400 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: under sixteen can still appear in the four you feed 401 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: of those who already follow them, and the new rule 402 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: won't affect Jenny Papach's videos. She turned sixteen in November. 403 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: I think the problem is for the individual moderators whose 404 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: job it is to make that decision. At the end 405 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: of the day, they have a judgment call to make 406 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: in just twenty seconds, and they have to look at 407 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: a thousand videos a day, and it is very hard 408 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 1: to decide if a video is sexually suggestive or not. 409 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: What is the day of a moderator for TikTok look like. 410 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: Content moderators at TikTok are effectively scanning through videos that 411 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: have been uploaded to the platform where the artificial intelligence 412 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: have flagged them as violating one of TikTok's community guidelines. 413 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: So first computers search through these and then they throw 414 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 1: out flags based on algorithms that compare it to lots 415 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: of different photos and say, this looks like possibly content 416 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: that violates the standards. That's exactly right. So the artificial 417 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: intelligence scans through every single video that's been uploaded to 418 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: the platform. That's twenty billion in the first half of 419 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 1: this year. The AI is looking for content that violates 420 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: community guidelines. And some of that is obvious, like nudity, violence, 421 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: hate speech, extremist behavior, they'll just take that down immediately. 422 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: The artificial intelligence isn't sure, and it doesn't know if 423 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: if this content is particularly violating guidelines or not. It 424 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: will send it through to a human moderator to decide. 425 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: So they're looking at videos that the artificial intelligence has 426 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: flagged as being potentially problematic, and they're deciding if it 427 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:13,479 Speaker 1: should stay up or if it should come down. And 428 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: you said they have twenty seconds to do this. Is 429 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: that a standard or is that just what it takes 430 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: they get through the day. They are expected to review 431 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: a thousand videos a day, and they have about twenty 432 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: seconds to look at each video. But some TikTok clips 433 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 1: are only a couple of seconds long, others are longer, 434 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: so they've got to make very quick judgment calls. And 435 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: to add a further layer of complexity on this already 436 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: very complex issue, TikTok has an if in doubt leave 437 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: it up mantra. What that means is that the moderators 438 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: are effectively told, if you don't know, leave it up, 439 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: rather than taking it down, and that Mantra has allowed 440 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: a lot of Jenny Pope Patches content to stay on 441 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: the platform even when on face vale you it looks 442 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: like it's violating some of those minor safety guidelines. But 443 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: let me ask you about that. Because the safety guidelines 444 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: that you just described seemed very specific. It also sounds 445 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: from your description of her videos that some of the 446 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: things described in those guidelines are in fact in those videos. 447 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: Why would there be a when in doubt situation when 448 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 1: the things explicitly spelled out in the guidelines are in 449 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: the videos. Yeah, I mean I have a good example 450 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: of this from her account. She recently posted a video 451 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: that was part of a TikTok trend where she's washing 452 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: the new car that she just bought with her TikTok earnings. 453 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: So she's in the car wash, she's in a gray 454 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: skin type body suit and white heeled boots, and she 455 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: is leathering foam on the car with her chiest. She's 456 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: winking at the camera. She's dancing covered in water and 457 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: foam from the car wash. With that particular video, a 458 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: lot of older men have been taking screen shots of 459 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: her bent over the car or her and various poses 460 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: that are sexually suggestive and have been sharing them with 461 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: one another and various group threads on other social media platforms. 462 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: In one particular forum, I was looking through some of 463 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:24,840 Speaker 1: these photos were being swapped and one person commented saying, guys, 464 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: this is CP the acronym for CPS child porn. So 465 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: that video in and of itself, what she was doing 466 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: was sexually suggestive, but it was part of a TikTok trend, 467 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: So she was doing something that a lot of other 468 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,959 Speaker 1: people had done in order to get it trending. And 469 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: I sent this video to a Trust and Safety team 470 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: worker to ask him, do you think that this should 471 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: have come down? He looked at it and told me no, 472 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: why would we take it down? She's fully clothed. When 473 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: you're a moderator, it comes down to your viewpoint of 474 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: what's sexually suggestive. And what's not So TikTok is really 475 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: stuck in the middle between the creators, some of the 476 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: young creators who are posting sexually suggestive content, and the 477 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: watchdog moms or the vigilante creators who are calling them 478 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: out and calling the platform out for not doing enough 479 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,080 Speaker 1: to protect kids. One of the difficulties that TikTok faces 480 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: is that it's just overwhelmed by content. If we think 481 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: about the first half of this year, TikTok removed more 482 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: than two hundred million videos. More than of those videos 483 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: were taken down because they violated a minor safety guideline. 484 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: That's a huge number of videos, two hundred million. But 485 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: in that same period, twenty billion videos were uploaded to 486 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: the platform. So how do you as a content moderation team, 487 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,239 Speaker 1: as a trust and safety team that is set up 488 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,479 Speaker 1: to try and pretend to uses and take down problematic conteen, 489 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: how do you begin when you have twenty billion videos? 490 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: It is just an impossible task. Thanks so much to 491 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: Olivia Carville for coming back on the podcast. You can 492 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: read Olivia's Bloomberg Business Week stories about TikTok at Bloomberg 493 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: dot com and special thanks to the video team behind 494 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: the audio you heard in this episode Andrea Deski and 495 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: Dmitri salv Chuck and if you want to hear the 496 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: story of TikTok's rise from startup to social media juggernaut 497 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: and how it became the center of US China tensions. 498 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: It's season two of Bloomberg's foundering podcast, The TikTok Story. 499 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to us here at the Big Tech. 500 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,959 Speaker 1: It's the daily podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. 501 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: For more shows from my Heart Radio, visit the i 502 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app podcast or wherever you listen. Read today's 503 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: story and subscribe to our daily newsletter at Bloomberg dot com. 504 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: Slash Big Take, and we'd love to hear from you. 505 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: Email us with questions or comments to Big Take at 506 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of The Big Take 507 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: is Vicky Burgalina. Our senior producer is Katherine Fink. Our 508 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 1: producer is Rebecca Shasson. Our associate producer is Sam Gobauer. 509 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: Hilda Garcia is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidrin. 510 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: I'm west Kasova. We'll be back tomorrow with another Big 511 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: Take