1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Chris BEYONDI has made 2 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: a pretty nice life for himself. He has a stable, 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,480 Speaker 1: fulfilling job with great benefits, a family he can support 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: with a salary, and. 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 2: I have a quarter of a million dollars in retirement. 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 2: And most of the people that I graduated from high 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 2: school with don't have a quarter of anything in retirement. 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: So what's the story behind his success? It all came 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: down to one decision. Chris says he became a plumber. 10 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 2: The work is satisfying. I can drive through two states 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 2: and a major city and point out all the things 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,279 Speaker 2: that I helped build or even design. Plumbing may not 13 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: have been my dream job, but it is not a 14 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 2: job I hate. It's a job I enjoy immensely. 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: Now he works as a trainer for people looking to 16 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: join his union, but with each passing year, he's noticing 17 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: a decline in young people hoping to enter the field, 18 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: and Bureau of Labor Statistics data shows that as more 19 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: and more baby boomers are set to retire, the shortage 20 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: of plumbers, along with pipefitters and steamfitters, is only predicted 21 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: to worsen. 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 3: The official data points to an average of forty two 23 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 3: six hundred vacancies a year over the coming decade. 24 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: That's my colleague Endacurran, who covers the US economy for Bloomberg. 25 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: He's looked at the numbers and recently started wondering where 26 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: have all the young plumbers gone. It's a labor problem 27 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: that could impact everything from America's infrastructure to its economy. 28 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: Today on the show The Mighty and Misunderstood American Plumber 29 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: and why the fate of this corner of the labor 30 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: market matters so much? From Bloomberg News, this is the 31 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: big take. I'm Sarah Holder. So you cover the US economy, 32 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: you're covering labor shortages. I'm assuming in lots of industries. 33 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: What motivated you to explore the situation in the plumbing industry. 34 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 3: Well, it's one of the parts of the economy that's 35 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 3: so critical to everything around us. And when you speak 36 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 3: to business people, when you speak to companies, they make 37 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 3: the point that there just aren't enough young people at 38 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 3: learning the skilled trades anymore. So that that could be plumbing, 39 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 3: that could be being an electrician, that could be whatever 40 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 3: it is that involves your hands. And the point is 41 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 3: these are critical to make in the economy. Work plumbing 42 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 3: goes to the core of so much of what we 43 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 3: do every day, from having clean drinking water through to 44 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 3: getting homes and construction projects finished on time. 45 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: And you recently visited a school training young plumbers outside 46 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: of DC. Can you tell us about that visit? 47 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 3: It was really interesting. So I went to two plumbing schools. 48 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 3: One of the schools I went to was offering for 49 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 3: the first time a pre apprenticeship program. This was in 50 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 3: Arundel and Maryland to get young people involved on a 51 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 3: career path for plumbing. The thing is they had eighteen 52 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 3: places on offer, but they only received three applicants. And 53 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 3: I stood in the lab, a very well equipped modern 54 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 3: laboratory with the instructor three gathered around the bench, but 55 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 3: all the other benches were emptying out. And it speaks 56 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 3: to the idea that young kids aren't necessarily looking at 57 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 3: this as a polential career path at the moment. 58 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: And why were there all those empty seats? What are 59 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: some of the barriers to entry to complete the schooling 60 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: and become a plumber. 61 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 3: So speaking to the people in the industry, there seems 62 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 3: to be a stigma around becoming a plumber. Young people 63 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 3: considered to be tough, dirty work. They're not really excited 64 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 3: by the prospect of fixing toilets all day long. But 65 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 3: when you speak to the plumbers, the educators, and those 66 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 3: in practicing the trade, they say, there's so much more 67 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 3: to it than that. It's not all about lying in 68 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 3: your back with a wrench all day. The work can 69 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 3: be varied. 70 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: Chrispyondy, the plumber turned trainer, actually told us about a 71 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: visit he recently made to a middle school where he 72 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: tried to counter these misconceptions about his job. 73 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: Went to a middle school, and I said, who knows 74 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: what a plumber does? And a young lady stood up 75 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: instead of plumber cleaned toilets, And so I was able 76 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: to run through a slide show and say, this is 77 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: what we were in this part of the Smithsonian, and 78 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,679 Speaker 2: we built as part of the National Zoo, and things 79 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,559 Speaker 2: that not just a kid would enjoy, but anybody would 80 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: enjoy seeing those pictures of something that's not there, and 81 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 2: that is suddenly an exhibit at the Zoo, or an 82 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: improved exhibit at the Smithsonian or the Washington Monument after 83 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 2: the earthquake needing repairs. So those kind of things are 84 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,200 Speaker 2: relatable to anybody, but it's important for us to make 85 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 2: clear that what we do is not what people think 86 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 2: we do. 87 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 3: The work can be satisfying to see a project being completed, 88 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 3: to see a problem being resolved, So it's rewarding in 89 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 3: that respect, and it's also financially rewarding. I mean, you 90 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 3: get a good salary. Obviously, the salary depends where you 91 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 3: are around the country, like every industry, but the salaries 92 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 3: can be well paid and offers pretty stable and plumbing. 93 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 1: Can you give us a sense of the scale of 94 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: the shortage and what it might translate into in terms 95 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: of overall losses in the industry. 96 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 3: There is one estimate out there that it costs the 97 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 3: economy about thirty three billion in twenty twenty two. In 98 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 3: other words, the country will be short of about five 99 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand plumbers by twenty twenty seven. So 100 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 3: those are not immaterial figures for the US at a 101 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 3: time of course, when workers shortages are being sort of 102 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 3: blamed for part of the inflation story. Given what's been 103 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,279 Speaker 3: happening wage pressures over the past few years, it's not insignificant, 104 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 3: and I think that's why there's a big push on 105 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 3: now from these construction groups and from others that the 106 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 3: government and state governments and education authorities need to do 107 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 3: more to encourage more young people to try and get 108 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 3: into skilled trades and offset somebody's pressures. 109 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: But as you mentioned, plumbers are not the only skilled 110 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: labors that the country is lacking. Construction, electricity workers. We're 111 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: seeing shortages in those industries as well well, So you're right. 112 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 3: Across construction more broadly, there are shortages of hundreds of 113 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 3: thousands of workers in that sector. And when you speak 114 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 3: to the people involved in construction, they are screaming out 115 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 3: for either more skills training or better allocation of existing labor, 116 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 3: or on the other hand, of course they want to 117 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,039 Speaker 3: speed up legal migration. But plumbing is pretty important because 118 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 3: plumbing are the people that you go to to get 119 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 3: the water flowing. You know, if there's ever a natural disaster, 120 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 3: one of the first things that gets impacted is clean 121 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 3: drinking water. One of the first sets of workers that 122 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 3: you need are plumbers. So that's why they are so 123 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 3: critical to the shortages in the construction industry. 124 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: After the break, how a shortage of trained plumbers could 125 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: potentially delay the green energy transition and what the industry 126 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: is trying to do to shore up its rinks for 127 00:06:53,520 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: the future. We're back. I've been speaking with Bloomberg's and 128 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: the Current about the struggle to recruit younger workers into 129 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: the plumbing profession. He says it affects wider swaths of 130 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: the economy than you might initially think. 131 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 3: First of all, the plumber shortage at the moment is 132 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 3: being cited as an issue in terms of projects being 133 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 3: completed and completed on time. If you cannot get the workers, 134 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 3: you cannot get the plumbers, then the construction work cannot 135 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 3: be done on time and it will become more expensive. 136 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 3: Costs will be overblown. That's a common complaint. So that's 137 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 3: a kind of a day to day on the construction side. 138 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 3: If we have a section of the economy continuing to 139 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 3: demand very high fees, we'll let those feed through to 140 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 3: broader services inflation, and that does keep alive the idea 141 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 3: that inflation will remain sticky in certain parts of the economy, 142 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 3: even if the FED has to bring down into trates. 143 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 3: On the other side of the economy, we have this 144 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 3: big structural change going on at the moment for cleaner, 145 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 3: greener energy, for more sustainable energy, but I think when 146 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 3: we speak about the green energy transition, we probably think 147 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 3: about solar panels, we think about electric cars. We probably 148 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 3: don't think enough about the water aspect of it, the 149 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 3: irrigation aspect of it, and the role of plumbers are 150 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 3: going to have to plan it. So the green energy 151 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 3: transition has that its core, smarter homes, more energy efficient homes, 152 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 3: water efficient homes, smarter irrigation, sustainable practices, smarter water heaters 153 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 3: for example, all of this, and all of that goes 154 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 3: to plumbing at the core of it, and we're going 155 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 3: to need young people who both know how to design 156 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 3: and implement these new environmentally sustainable plumbing practices or else 157 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 3: governments and all of us will not meet the green 158 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 3: targets that are being set for us. 159 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: Besides super Mario, are there any positive role models for 160 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: aspiring young plumbers. 161 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 3: That's a very interesting point. Actually, I think super Mario 162 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 3: is probably out there as number one. When I went 163 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 3: out to that school in Lanham, I will say there 164 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 3: was an old vintage poster that I mentioned in the article. 165 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 3: Was a vintage poster on the wall I was quite 166 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 3: struck by from many decades ago, and it had a 167 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 3: It was a plumber in and overalls with a wrench 168 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 3: in his hand, standing on top of a globe with 169 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 3: a crowd of admiring onlookers looking up to him, and 170 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 3: the tagline on that was the plumber protects the health 171 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 3: of the nation. So that's not quite super Mario, but 172 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 3: that poster was in there to inspire the young students 173 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 3: who go into that school that a job and plumbing 174 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 3: isn't just a good job and well paid. We're also 175 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 3: contributing towards the economic health of the nation. 176 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: And when it comes to motivating young people to go 177 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: into the trade. Chris Beyondy, who he heard from earlier, 178 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: is working on it as the training director for a 179 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 1: plumbing apprenticeship committee in Washington, d C. The trains over 180 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty apprentices a year. He says he 181 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: actually uses the fact that so many older plumbers are 182 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: retiring as a motivator for people considering the industry. 183 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: I use it as a pitch point because the shortage 184 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 2: means that my job is not going anywhere as a plumber, 185 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 2: my job's not going anywhere. As a trainer of plumbers, 186 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 2: it's not going anywhere. Job security is happening because of 187 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 2: the shortage, but I would rather I don't want that 188 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 2: to be the endgame. It can't be the endgame because 189 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 2: things that need to keep working are going to stop 190 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 2: working and there won't be someone to fix it. There 191 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 2: are things that need to be built properly are not 192 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 2: going to be built properly or not be built at 193 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 2: all because of the shortage. And it's all the trades. 194 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 2: They're all suffering. 195 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: What do you say to young people considering the field? 196 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 2: That is hard and it can get messy. But what 197 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 2: I tell them is that if they want a career 198 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 2: where they can enjoy what they do, or they will 199 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: work hard, but they will actually get paid to work hard, 200 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 2: and that they will make enough money so that they 201 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 2: do not have to worry about paying for their children's college, 202 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 2: They do not have to worry about what retirement looks like, 203 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 2: they don't have to live check to check. And it 204 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: sometimes takes a few years after high school for people 205 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: to appreciate every single one of those things. 206 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: What do you like best about your job? 207 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 2: Okay, so what I like best about the job I 208 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 2: have now, which is training director for our program, is 209 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 2: I get to offer people the experience or their version 210 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 2: of the experience that I had. We work heavily with 211 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 2: teachers and with counselors so that we are creating advocates 212 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 2: in the school systems. I mean, it's our job to 213 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 2: protect the health of the nation, but we need folks 214 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: to advocate for us. Otherwise we're going to keep seeing 215 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,719 Speaker 2: the shortage, and it's a shortage that grows every year. 216 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: We're not closing that gap unless we start bringing in 217 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 2: more people. 218 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Big Take from Bloomberg News. 219 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Holder. Today's episode was produced by Alex Ubia 220 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 1: and Thomas lou It was edited by Aaron Edwards and 221 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: Caitlin Kenney. It was mixed by Veronica Rodriguez. It was 222 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: fact checked by Naomi. Our senior producers are Naomi Shavin 223 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 1: and Elizabeth Ponso. Nicolebeamsterbor is our executive producer. Sage Bauman 224 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: is head of Podcasts. We'll be back with you on Monday.