WEBVTT - Ep. 326: Cuddle the Scimitar 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:12.760 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:18.319 severely bug bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:24.080 can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven versatile 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:28.040 hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:37.720 every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer. Okay, we're 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:43.360 gonna step through a gate marked Sahara Desert. So we're 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:47.920 gonna enter the Sahara Desert in Texas and it's sixty 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:52.519 acres well that yeah, that pass is about a square mile. No, 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:58.640 that pasture is part of the six it's probably about acres, 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:02.400 you got it? And how many scimitar horned orcs are 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.880 in there? Uh? In that group there are twenty two 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:11.320 adult females. UM, and I want to say, there's eleven 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:19.080 newborn kids. And there's nothing special about that rooster's playing 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:24.240 out over there. I'm interested. And to the right is 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:30.959 a bunch of orcs quest friends. Okay, So to interview, Uh, 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:33.480 let me hear what you guys all, what your role 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:37.440 is here and what you guys do. Okay, I'll start out. Uh, 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:40.600 my name is Stephen Fulton. I'm the manager of the 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:44.560 Bamburger ranch. UM I've been I've worked here for about 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:47.840 eighteen and a half years. UM. I've worked with the 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:52.559 scimitar horned orcs UH for about ten years now. They've 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.240 been under my my purview. So other than that, when 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:59.760 it comes to ranch management, everything's up for grabs, every 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:04.960 job his mind. If I'm if I'm available, I'm Lee Burton. 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:09.360 I'm the acting director and programs Manager for Conservation Centers 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:16.160 for Species Survival and based in Austin, Texas and Bamburger Ranches. 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:19.720 One of our first members. And as a great story 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.960 and UM the scimitar horned ORIX and the founding of 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:28.360 the Source Population Alliance, which is a consortium model that 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:32.000 helped bring these animals back and ultimately led to their 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:36.360 reintroduction and in the wild and chat when do you 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:40.800 say back? It's not back to Texas. No, that gets 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:44.000 into the whole topic of these animals are part of 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:47.959 a metapopulation that are spread out in x c QU environments. 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:51.640 So we have in in that particular program, the Source 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:56.480 Population Alliance, there's ten different species UH, most all ungulates 0:02:56.600 --> 0:03:00.560 to cattle species, and the idea was to pick species 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.600 that were endangered or even extinct in the wild. Put 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.600 them in ex c two settings over here, repopulate them, 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:09.600 do genomics testing on them to ensure you don't get 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:13.880 in breeding, ETCeteras, that they're sustainable, build up their numbers 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:16.359 within the hope that one day you can do things 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.919 like have happened in chat reintroduced them and we've had 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.600 three of our species have now been either put back 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.000 or supplemented in the wild. Um. Some of the other 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:31.120 ones it's not ripe yet. And so the ideas the 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.760 settings here on a ranch like Bamburger are ideal conditions 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.640 as close as you can get to matching what they 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:40.600 have back at home in sub Sahara, the weather in Texas, 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:46.320 the terrain, etcetera. UM. And additionally that the other big 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.360 benefit of it is these animals were mostly in Steve 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:51.200 will tell you the whole story of how it started, 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.520 but we're mostly in zoos, and a lot of them 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.280 weren't faring well, not because the zoos are do anything wrong, 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.160 but just because of space constraints, just not having the 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.760 normal social dynamic that you have when you know breeding, etcetera. 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.600 And so putting them back out here has been UM 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.920 an incredible benefit to the species and has helped these 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:14.920 populations grow where we can do things like that today, 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.080 and you know, look at the future of doing reintroductions. 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:23.160 The models interesting and you know, I'm sure you heard, 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:25.719 you know, the story when they started trying to repopulate 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:29.400 American bison on the Great Plains. One of the places 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:31.920 they found them was in the Bronx, you know, and 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:34.440 sent him. So there's sort of like this irony of 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:36.440 like loading them up in the Bronx and bringing them 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.240 back up west, you know. And this is like on 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.479 a much much larger scale, right it is. There's some 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.200 other famous stories. There's a which is not one of 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.520 our species, but the Mexican wolf. Um. And I'm not 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:51.680 a geneticist, but um, I think you need three lines 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.000 at least to be able to not have in breeding. 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.200 And so when they were doing that program back in 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.480 the Southwest, they had two lines. And then it was 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.640 a Canadian guy who had just on vacation, was driving 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.000 through Tucson, saw an ad in the paper to pick 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:09.040 up a wolf pup. Yes, put it up, put it 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.320 into saddle bag, got about an hour north or something, 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:14.080 thought better of it. I don't know if he's pissing 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.000 all over his bike or whatever. The you know, Hill 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:19.159 was doing anyway, and so he stopped turned it over 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.240 to like some sort of animal shelter turned out to 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:28.679 be the third line. So yeah, So Dave Parsons, who 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.919 led that reintroduction effort on l fishing wildife, told me 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:33.680 that story, and so yeah, that's why they didn't have 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:38.240 to bring in the northern subspecies in Yellowstone. So yeah, 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:41.640 there's a lot of strange stories like that. And Warren 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.480 saw I'm Warren Bluntser own and operak Warren blunts Or 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.280 while off consulting services and work uh all over the 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.600 US and then several foreign countries. And part of my 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:55.240 business is wildlife capture and we specialized in that, but 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.280 basically we worked with anything to do with land, water 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:00.640 and wilife. But I'm very very deep be involved with 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:07.080 exotics and humane treatment, um, the stocking of ranches, rebuilding 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:09.960 of these animals, and and so we have a we 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:15.360 have a company that does extensive wildlife captures. So I've 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:17.960 I've been privileged enough to be on a lot of 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:21.080 these ranches like the Bamburger Ranch and get to see 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:23.560 firsthand what's really done and and help bring some of 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:27.320 those animals back and and and help advise on their 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:31.000 welfare and their their general well being. So Warrant was 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.680 also retired to game Warden Parks and Wildlife. Oh really, Okay, 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.560 So I was a conservation officer as y'all know them, 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.359 and state game Warden for Texas for twenty five years 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.760 and sit on the Texas Parks and Wildlife Whitetail UH 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:46.880 Advisory Board. And I sit on several disease boards that 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.760 helped formulate and I testify quite a bit to wilife 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:54.359 disease issues and try to get to try to educate. 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:58.720 That's the biggest issue that I see in this wildlife 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.760 world now is the the separation between what the general 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:06.279 public understands about wildlife management and what it really means 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.720 and and how many benefits a person that that took 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.000 a ranch like this and brought it back to the state. 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:16.000 It's end because they're shrinking fast. It's getting more and 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.240 more of a challenge for generations to hold onto these 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:23.520 ranches and these these are really special places. Okay, So 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.160 we're gonna jump in this pickup, go through the gate 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.520 marked Sahara Desert, and then we're gonna go find a 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:34.720 female that just dropped a calf within the last forty 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.640 eight hours and try to convince her to let us 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:40.200 handle the calf and put the ear tag into it 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:48.360 so they keep track of it. Whoa, here's serious horns. 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:53.080 So to see a few of those up about two 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.160 weeks old. Let can see the color of them, howethery 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:58.560 or not white like the females they're they're more of 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:03.160 a tan, a baby color, which with this dry grass 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:05.240 they blend in very well. I'm still to tell the 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.440 males and females on these things. Man, it's like they 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:09.680 has to the hook of the horn is one of 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:13.640 the things. This is an all female herd. Oh so 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.880 that makes me so yeah, well hard to find a male. 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:22.520 The metals of mis do the feeding out of this track? Absolutely? Yeah, 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:29.239 they're pretty well feeds. So what's the what's the orcs 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:31.240 that they you know, I've done that. I drew a 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.520 tag to hunt the you know, the off range New 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:41.200 Mexico or that's gems box, that's but Gemsbock orcs. Yeah, 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:46.640 there's four kinds. And who they are too, Arabians, Yeah, Cementars, 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:52.000 Gemsbock and what's the other I'll stable out of the 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.200 other three, I mean the other three besides these foreign 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.640 country you know, stable isn't pretty good shape. It's the 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:02.000 least threatened. Um. I think all the other ones are 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.360 a greater concerned. So the gams boxes hurting non native 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.680 ranch um some you don't see him as much as 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:10.600 these guys. But yeah they are. I'm not what I'm saying, 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.920 like where they come from? Are they stable? It depends 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:15.800 on what part of the country you're looking at. Some 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.560 of them, the poaching is horrible on them, and uh, 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.880 you know that those people are starting this, so obviously 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.480 they're gonna eat some of them. But where they're really protected. 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.160 A lot of a lot of the game ranches now 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:30.840 in in Africa were in their concessions are are game ranches, 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:33.240 so they can protect them down. They've got some good 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.440 herds over there. The games Boc is in much better 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:41.000 shape than the Semitar. Yeah. You know, uh, if there's 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:42.760 some males in here, would you see a lot more 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.480 broken arms on everybody? It seems like some pretty quiz 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.360 a horn length on those? Yeah? Yeah, I mean again, 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.800 these are these are this is my oldest herd of 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:56.079 females um. So these these animals are nine years old, 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:59.680 so a lot of them are uh. And then with 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:04.960 with that freeze two februaries ago, we've we've lost quite 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.480 a few horns on these older females. But in most 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:10.400 of the most cases, the females don't fight much, so 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:14.280 they don't really have much use to battle and and 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.679 break off horns. But when you when the male's got 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.480 a broken horn, that's is it more from fighting or 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:24.480 freezing for us fighting? Okay, so they do do that. 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:26.080 Oh yeah, I don't know if that is to miss. 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.640 But the rule of that exception is that we've never 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.960 been tim below zero. It's something this country. So we 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:37.240 had some of these these true horns two or three 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.680 months later just fall off of our ear damage the 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:44.000 ears froze off of and so we had a we 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:48.760 had if we see this female separate, yeah, that's from freezing. No, no, 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:51.480 she's separate because this is the one we're coming to 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.000 look at. You tell what I'm saying. She got one horn? 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:55.680 Oh yeah, I know, but the one horn yet that 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:59.600 froze off. Do you guys go with bull calf or 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:04.480 bull kid? Male kid? So there's a calf, yeah, he said. 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.720 She's she's super protective, so she's basically standing over it. 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:13.440 So this this will be interesting. How long How long 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:18.079 is that calf born? Uh? I think yesterday afternoon or 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:25.720 evening so hard. Yeah, and we're not sure if it's 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.560 a male or female calfolic again because she's been super protective. 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:36.120 Um so I'm gonna get out. I would yeah, I 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:41.439 would know, I would. I would be korean. I'd be careful, 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:49.360 keep keep the truck between you and it. Yeah, yeah 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:56.880 they are okay, So yeah you got you got a bench. 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.760 She's growling at you. Yeah, they're been. It's very vocal. 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.920 Let they get I just so do you want some 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:09.640 distraction though? Ah? Yeah, this one y'all want. Haven't letting 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:14.800 me in? Finch'll tink? Wow. Yeah, I'm a good volunteer. 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:22.400 I would hate for you to get I have gove 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.400 into the front of the truck before with one of 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:29.960 these narrows narrowly missed me. Um so how do how 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:31.960 do they get how do they get the hook in you? 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.360 When they're there horns helping, They'll put their hand the 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:36.240 forehead all the way down there. That's what they do. 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.440 They come in. Also, they also use that horn like 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.160 a club. Oh the dear, so they'll they'll hit you 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:44.920 with it um, then the hookie with a harn as 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:48.080 those far as we're made out of elements, how they 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.400 feel a line. If they don't get a good line, 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:57.240 just the horn itself coming out of we'll lose a 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:01.120 filament inside the flesh on bad something distracted about that 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:03.400 thing stuck with them. These are serious business to get 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.360 taken care of, or you can lose your arm, your leg. 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.320 But what we're saying about with lines, so when they 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.760 get a hit on the line or whatever, the predator 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:12.960 is after him, if they don't kill them a lot 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:16.080 of times just the horn itself see the film, it's 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:19.000 hanging off that horn right there. It'll stay inside that wound. 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.920 It'll get infected and they'll die. You ask him like 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:28.800 like like splintered, like splinter it that cast only about 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:38.359 two days olmy yesterday. Every year, this one is very protective. 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:42.560 How many calves that she produced every year for at 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:51.320 least last ten years? Just a year and there somewhere 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:58.240 do a natural breathing or natural except for it's rased. 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.319 I've got I've got a herd bull that I want, 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.439 you know, pass the jeans along and he'll get it. 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.680 He'll get a herd of females, and then the other 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.319 herd of females has a different genetic background, so or 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:15.000 it'll get a different bull. Maybe you'll you'll, let's put 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:18.480 that's how you got your university. Make much closely? Maybe 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:22.800 m window okay, Chris Stee if you want us to 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.040 move off, it's easier just with no, No, it's not 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.960 gonna be easy anyway anyway, or for him, I've been there. 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:36.520 I just formulated a plan. Drive over it, Drive over it, 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:43.080 and it's just under the trump there it is. It's 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:48.400 a little boy. I think, Yeah, I'm good. Feels like it. 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:56.320 So it feels like future ball, all right. So this 0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:00.320 is just a tag daughter. This is basically the same thing. 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:02.280 This is the only male when we'll keep this year, 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.800 just because, as I said earlier, the geneticist that's doing 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.480 the work on these animals, I thought this female was 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:13.680 a particular interest genetically. So a lot of times we'll 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:15.840 take and we'll take the tag and we'll pull the 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:18.080 tag out like that to get air behind it, and 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.240 they'll prevent it from getting sometimes since but they're not 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:25.720 bad about getting infected at all. Yeah, it was a healthy, strong, 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:30.200 young BULLI you want fasten the room, so you'll were 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:33.680 you were you guys like my kids are all grown up, 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:37.440 I'll hand it to you that way. And my nap 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:41.760 all the all the all the kids, whether it's bull 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:46.640 kids or a little fellas kids. I sell them as 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:51.120 he is of course once they're older. So I feel 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:54.320 it right now like we're snuggling and he's loving this 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:56.880 is his heart rate like way up because heart right 0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:04.480 up the scary so we can and we also want 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.360 to take turn. You know, you want one of these 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.520 that this there's really only two times a year that 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:14.800 we have this kind of contact with them, and that's 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:17.320 this time of year. And it's usually only about six weeks, 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:20.320 a six week period um where they're where they're burthen 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.880 because I put the put both males in with each 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.040 one of the herds um at the same time of 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:28.920 the year. So well, how do you know the how 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:31.120 do you get all the females cycle at the same time. 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:35.920 They tend to cycle together once you put them in. 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.760 Once you if you if you don't have them reproducing constantly, um, 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:43.280 they tend to cycle together. So in that six week period, 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:48.040 they'll all cycle and they'll all get pregnant. That's been 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:52.520 my experience now in in in a wild population um 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.160 where you got the bulls with them constantly. Yeah, I'm 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.960 sure the cycle their cycles are are are off set. 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.880 Quite a lot of their past ranges were all they're 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:06.879 breeding cycles to evolutionary were synchronized with vegetation range, and 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:10.199 that that was their biological signal that what they were 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.040 gonna do, they're gonna do. And so it's kind of 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.560 the evolution has taken it different. This is a different country, 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.880 but they're still, like you said, they're still evolutionary. They're 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.800 still locked in on it, and it's amazing. That's why 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:25.000 you see all those animals giving birth on that grass. 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:26.960 It's a hell of a feat. I mean from four 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.040 years ago there being none in their native range and 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.360 now there's a hunderfitted there and they're having kids. Those 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.000 kids are considered you know, of native stock, so they're 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:41.320 no longer considered endangered. This baby calf, let's just say 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.359 that he individually is tested or there's a sense of 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:48.160 what his genetics is. Is it possible that he would 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:54.680 be a chosen one time and these animals I tagged 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:59.480 him for that purpose because again that that side, that 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.720 damn was was told to me that of particular interest genetically. 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.240 So my plan is to keep all of her all 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.720 springs is for as long as she reproduces. I wish 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:11.720 I'd known that, you know, four or five years ago, 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.480 because I've had a lot more of her all free 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:18.879 representation on the range. The other aspect of having animals 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.080 out in a facility like this and multiple facilities and 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.320 this idea, this meta population, is that we've had to 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.440 rethink the number of individuals that you have to have 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:32.239 to keep your genetic variability um. And the goal is 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.160 in this program over the next hundred years to maintain 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:40.240 at least ninety and in the zoo world if you 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.399 keep them only in zoos, just because they don't have 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:44.920 the space to do that. I mean they there's something 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.040 like a total of a hundred and fifty eight of 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:50.840 the a zoos, they had roughly about eleven thousand acres, 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:54.040 and and just within our program it's closer to a 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:56.800 hundred thousand acres. And so the number of animals you 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:58.600 can get, you know, they used to think maybe you 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.080 need a few hundred, a couple undred, you know, now 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:04.400 they know you need well over a thousand, even two 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.760 thousand maybe or more. So that that is another aspect 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.199 of it that you know, having them in places like 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.160 this beyond just individual genes, you don't want to lose 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.159 variability at all, as you can and a lot of 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:22.399 times zoos running to breeding problems just some species just 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:24.960 don't want breading a zoo. You know, they they will, 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:28.160 but they don't like it, and so they missed times 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.480 and times or years and years or decades, and so 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.000 you can get behind quick. So when you have a 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.800 free range situation and and individuals like he's keeping track 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.359 of and and and switching out to keep that variability 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:44.960 in there. They that's there's where the truth the true 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.800 herds do well, and they're they're much more likely to 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.760 do better when they go back into the wild, being 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:54.280 in a wild or semi wild setting like this, you know, 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:57.080 and and having those traits. Yeah, there's gonna be some 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:00.520 fighting sometimes whatever, but obviously that serves them well, you know, 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.359 when they go back in versus a more docile animal. 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:07.120 That's you know, several generations removed in a a zoo 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:10.439 environment and whatever the appo genetics is, however, all that 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.920 works or you know, just um, just train and behavior, 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:16.800 not being passed on. So these animals are are likely 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:29.200 to do well and they have so far. All right, 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:33.200 now that we've visited the the young do you guys 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.399 go by calf? What do you there's a bull cow calf? 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:39.640 What is it in orcs? Really? Is that universally accepted 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.560 bull cow calf? All right, now that we've visited the 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:46.959 cow calfe unit of the scimitar horned ORCS, it's like, 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:53.320 walk me through, um, how that like, walk me through 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.080 how that animal fits into the broader picture of what 0:20:56.240 --> 0:21:00.919 happens with the Conservation Centers for Species Survival, Like like 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:05.040 where it fits into the hierarchy of activities. Sure, So 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:08.440 the scimitar horned Orix is one of the ten species 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:11.720 and what's known as the Source Population Alliance, and that's 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:16.200 one of the programs under Conservation Centers for Species Survival 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:19.080 or C two S two for short. And we have 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.560 a number of different programs. Um, that one is focused 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:28.720 so other species um including cheetah, red wolf, southern black rhino. 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:32.480 The Source Population Alliance folcus is just on ungulate species 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:37.040 and it was originally four species, which were the ones 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:39.760 that we kind of discussed earlier and were the most 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:42.720 critically endangered or in the case of the scimitar horned Orix, 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:46.000 was extinct in the wild. It also included the addicts 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.159 and doma gazelle. Uh. And then the four species was 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:52.720 the sable antelope, which is not that's actually doing fairly well. 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:57.280 They were the original four and the concept was created 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.200 back in two thousand and five. There was an out 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:05.360 scientists named David Wilt Smithsonian. He was a reproductive physiologist 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:11.119 and did some great work including artificial insemination, etcetera. He noticed, 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:15.560 among others, that these animals, these angular species, were just 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:18.639 not doing as well in a zoo environment as they hoped. 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:22.359 So they looked at that. They were concerned because of 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:26.840 the space constraints, uh, not having normal social dynamics. This 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:29.520 idea of you needed to have if you wanted to 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:32.720 keep them alive in these ex C two settings, having 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:35.800 a meta population explained x C two an n C T. 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:40.199 Yeah that's from archaeology, but it's yeah, it's one of 0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:42.800 these sort of terms. It sounds fancy, it's pretty simple. 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:45.400 So n C two is just their native range, their 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:50.080 native habitat where they live. So again with with these guys, 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.480 the three we just mentioned, the scimitar, addicts and doma 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:57.000 gazelle that's sub Sahara Africa, okay, and so um that 0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:00.280 would be n C two XC two is in were 0:23:00.320 --> 0:23:04.000 removed out of that it's not their home range, okay. 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:07.119 And so the idea was we wanted to have you know, 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:09.560 the zoo world was set up for way back when 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:13.880 for a lot of reasons. Um, but the conservation aspects 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:17.360 several decades ago was there was I guess you'd say 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:22.240 re energized, refocused, and so these species survival plans were 0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:25.840 created to try to maintain these populations and an ex 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:28.800 C two environment for a lot of reasons. And one 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:31.600 of the reasons was to have an assurance population if 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:34.120 something happened to the animals in their n C two 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:36.639 and the scimitar is a great example of that if 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:38.720 they go extinct. You don't want to lose the species 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:42.960 altogether if they get extirpated in that case. So these 0:23:42.960 --> 0:23:45.760 species survival plans were set up and these animals were 0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:48.680 bred for several decades in the zoo world, and they 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:51.439 did a great job. Again, they had the stud books, 0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:54.080 they knew the lineages, you know, they knew, Hey, I'm 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:56.200 gonna take this bull and breed it with this female 0:23:56.240 --> 0:23:59.840 over here. But they were space constrained. And also again 0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:03.600 it removed the natural conditions. It just take place and 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:07.159 how these species interact and compete, right and you know, 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:10.720 survival to fitnest, all that stuff. So David Wilton noticed this, 0:24:10.840 --> 0:24:13.800 and so he and some other scientists got together and 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:17.000 some of our facilities and said, hey, let's take some 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:19.480 of these animals. Let's put them in you know, places 0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:22.200 like in Bamberg already had simitar horned orcs, which is 0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:24.680 a great story in and of itself that predates this. 0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:27.280 But let's put them in these facilities where they have 0:24:27.520 --> 0:24:30.239 you know, big ranges that are not truly they're not 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:33.560 in C. Two, but there they closely mimic where they 0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:36.680 come from. And and so you know, if we put 0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:38.639 them in there, we think they're gonna do a lot better. 0:24:38.800 --> 0:24:41.000 You know, they're gonna breathe, their numbers are gonna build 0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:44.200 up um and and our motto at C. TOWS two 0:24:44.280 --> 0:24:47.280