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Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless,

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Speaker 1: severely bug bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for

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Speaker 1: every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer. Okay, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna step through a gate marked Sahara Desert. So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna enter the Sahara Desert in Texas and it's sixty

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Speaker 1: acres well that yeah, that pass is about a square mile. No,

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Speaker 1: that pasture is part of the six it's probably about acres,

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Speaker 1: you got it? And how many scimitar horned orcs are

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Speaker 1: in there? Uh? In that group there are twenty two

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Speaker 1: adult females. UM, and I want to say, there's eleven

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Speaker 1: newborn kids. And there's nothing special about that rooster's playing

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Speaker 1: out over there. I'm interested. And to the right is

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Speaker 1: a bunch of orcs quest friends. Okay, So to interview, Uh,

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Speaker 1: let me hear what you guys all, what your role

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Speaker 1: is here and what you guys do. Okay, I'll start out. Uh,

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Speaker 1: my name is Stephen Fulton. I'm the manager of the

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Speaker 1: Bamburger ranch. UM I've been I've worked here for about

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Speaker 1: eighteen and a half years. UM. I've worked with the

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Speaker 1: scimitar horned orcs UH for about ten years now. They've

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Speaker 1: been under my my purview. So other than that, when

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Speaker 1: it comes to ranch management, everything's up for grabs, every

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Speaker 1: job his mind. If I'm if I'm available, I'm Lee Burton.

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Speaker 1: I'm the acting director and programs Manager for Conservation Centers

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Speaker 1: for Species Survival and based in Austin, Texas and Bamburger Ranches.

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Speaker 1: One of our first members. And as a great story

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Speaker 1: and UM the scimitar horned ORIX and the founding of

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Speaker 1: the Source Population Alliance, which is a consortium model that

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Speaker 1: helped bring these animals back and ultimately led to their

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Speaker 1: reintroduction and in the wild and chat when do you

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Speaker 1: say back? It's not back to Texas. No, that gets

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Speaker 1: into the whole topic of these animals are part of

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Speaker 1: a metapopulation that are spread out in x c QU environments.

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Speaker 1: So we have in in that particular program, the Source

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Speaker 1: Population Alliance, there's ten different species UH, most all ungulates

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Speaker 1: to cattle species, and the idea was to pick species

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Speaker 1: that were endangered or even extinct in the wild. Put

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Speaker 1: them in ex c two settings over here, repopulate them,

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Speaker 1: do genomics testing on them to ensure you don't get

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Speaker 1: in breeding, ETCeteras, that they're sustainable, build up their numbers

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Speaker 1: within the hope that one day you can do things

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Speaker 1: like have happened in chat reintroduced them and we've had

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Speaker 1: three of our species have now been either put back

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Speaker 1: or supplemented in the wild. Um. Some of the other

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Speaker 1: ones it's not ripe yet. And so the ideas the

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Speaker 1: settings here on a ranch like Bamburger are ideal conditions

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Speaker 1: as close as you can get to matching what they

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Speaker 1: have back at home in sub Sahara, the weather in Texas,

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Speaker 1: the terrain, etcetera. UM. And additionally that the other big

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Speaker 1: benefit of it is these animals were mostly in Steve

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Speaker 1: will tell you the whole story of how it started,

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Speaker 1: but we're mostly in zoos, and a lot of them

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Speaker 1: weren't faring well, not because the zoos are do anything wrong,

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Speaker 1: but just because of space constraints, just not having the

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Speaker 1: normal social dynamic that you have when you know breeding, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: And so putting them back out here has been UM

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Speaker 1: an incredible benefit to the species and has helped these

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Speaker 1: populations grow where we can do things like that today,

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Speaker 1: and you know, look at the future of doing reintroductions.

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Speaker 1: The models interesting and you know, I'm sure you heard,

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Speaker 1: you know, the story when they started trying to repopulate

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Speaker 1: American bison on the Great Plains. One of the places

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Speaker 1: they found them was in the Bronx, you know, and

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Speaker 1: sent him. So there's sort of like this irony of

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Speaker 1: like loading them up in the Bronx and bringing them

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Speaker 1: back up west, you know. And this is like on

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Speaker 1: a much much larger scale, right it is. There's some

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Speaker 1: other famous stories. There's a which is not one of

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Speaker 1: our species, but the Mexican wolf. Um. And I'm not

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Speaker 1: a geneticist, but um, I think you need three lines

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Speaker 1: at least to be able to not have in breeding.

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Speaker 1: And so when they were doing that program back in

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Speaker 1: the Southwest, they had two lines. And then it was

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Speaker 1: a Canadian guy who had just on vacation, was driving

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Speaker 1: through Tucson, saw an ad in the paper to pick

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Speaker 1: up a wolf pup. Yes, put it up, put it

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Speaker 1: into saddle bag, got about an hour north or something,

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Speaker 1: thought better of it. I don't know if he's pissing

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Speaker 1: all over his bike or whatever. The you know, Hill

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Speaker 1: was doing anyway, and so he stopped turned it over

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Speaker 1: to like some sort of animal shelter turned out to

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Speaker 1: be the third line. So yeah, So Dave Parsons, who

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Speaker 1: led that reintroduction effort on l fishing wildife, told me

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Speaker 1: that story, and so yeah, that's why they didn't have

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Speaker 1: to bring in the northern subspecies in Yellowstone. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of strange stories like that. And Warren

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Speaker 1: saw I'm Warren Bluntser own and operak Warren blunts Or

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Speaker 1: while off consulting services and work uh all over the

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Speaker 1: US and then several foreign countries. And part of my

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Speaker 1: business is wildlife capture and we specialized in that, but

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Speaker 1: basically we worked with anything to do with land, water

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Speaker 1: and wilife. But I'm very very deep be involved with

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Speaker 1: exotics and humane treatment, um, the stocking of ranches, rebuilding

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Speaker 1: of these animals, and and so we have a we

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Speaker 1: have a company that does extensive wildlife captures. So I've

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Speaker 1: I've been privileged enough to be on a lot of

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Speaker 1: these ranches like the Bamburger Ranch and get to see

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Speaker 1: firsthand what's really done and and help bring some of

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Speaker 1: those animals back and and and help advise on their

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Speaker 1: welfare and their their general well being. So Warrant was

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Speaker 1: also retired to game Warden Parks and Wildlife. Oh really, Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I was a conservation officer as y'all know them,

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Speaker 1: and state game Warden for Texas for twenty five years

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Speaker 1: and sit on the Texas Parks and Wildlife Whitetail UH

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Speaker 1: Advisory Board. And I sit on several disease boards that

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Speaker 1: helped formulate and I testify quite a bit to wilife

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Speaker 1: disease issues and try to get to try to educate.

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Speaker 1: That's the biggest issue that I see in this wildlife

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Speaker 1: world now is the the separation between what the general

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Speaker 1: public understands about wildlife management and what it really means

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Speaker 1: and and how many benefits a person that that took

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Speaker 1: a ranch like this and brought it back to the state.

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Speaker 1: It's end because they're shrinking fast. It's getting more and

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Speaker 1: more of a challenge for generations to hold onto these

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Speaker 1: ranches and these these are really special places. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: we're gonna jump in this pickup, go through the gate

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Speaker 1: marked Sahara Desert, and then we're gonna go find a

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Speaker 1: female that just dropped a calf within the last forty

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Speaker 1: eight hours and try to convince her to let us

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Speaker 1: handle the calf and put the ear tag into it

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Speaker 1: so they keep track of it. Whoa, here's serious horns.

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Speaker 1: So to see a few of those up about two

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Speaker 1: weeks old. Let can see the color of them, howethery

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Speaker 1: or not white like the females they're they're more of

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Speaker 1: a tan, a baby color, which with this dry grass

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Speaker 1: they blend in very well. I'm still to tell the

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Speaker 1: males and females on these things. Man, it's like they

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Speaker 1: has to the hook of the horn is one of

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Speaker 1: the things. This is an all female herd. Oh so

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Speaker 1: that makes me so yeah, well hard to find a male.

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Speaker 1: The metals of mis do the feeding out of this track? Absolutely? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're pretty well feeds. So what's the what's the orcs

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Speaker 1: that they you know, I've done that. I drew a

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Speaker 1: tag to hunt the you know, the off range New

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Speaker 1: Mexico or that's gems box, that's but Gemsbock orcs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's four kinds. And who they are too, Arabians, Yeah, Cementars,

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Speaker 1: Gemsbock and what's the other I'll stable out of the

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Speaker 1: other three, I mean the other three besides these foreign

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Speaker 1: country you know, stable isn't pretty good shape. It's the

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Speaker 1: least threatened. Um. I think all the other ones are

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Speaker 1: a greater concerned. So the gams boxes hurting non native

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Speaker 1: ranch um some you don't see him as much as

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Speaker 1: these guys. But yeah they are. I'm not what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: like where they come from? Are they stable? It depends

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Speaker 1: on what part of the country you're looking at. Some

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Speaker 1: of them, the poaching is horrible on them, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know that those people are starting this, so obviously

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Speaker 1: they're gonna eat some of them. But where they're really protected.

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Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of the game ranches now

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Speaker 1: in in Africa were in their concessions are are game ranches,

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Speaker 1: so they can protect them down. They've got some good

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Speaker 1: herds over there. The games Boc is in much better

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Speaker 1: shape than the Semitar. Yeah. You know, uh, if there's

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Speaker 1: some males in here, would you see a lot more

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Speaker 1: broken arms on everybody? It seems like some pretty quiz

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Speaker 1: a horn length on those? Yeah? Yeah, I mean again,

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Speaker 1: these are these are this is my oldest herd of

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Speaker 1: females um. So these these animals are nine years old,

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Speaker 1: so a lot of them are uh. And then with

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Speaker 1: with that freeze two februaries ago, we've we've lost quite

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Speaker 1: a few horns on these older females. But in most

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Speaker 1: of the most cases, the females don't fight much, so

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Speaker 1: they don't really have much use to battle and and

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Speaker 1: break off horns. But when you when the male's got

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Speaker 1: a broken horn, that's is it more from fighting or

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Speaker 1: freezing for us fighting? Okay, so they do do that.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't know if that is to miss.

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Speaker 1: But the rule of that exception is that we've never

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Speaker 1: been tim below zero. It's something this country. So we

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Speaker 1: had some of these these true horns two or three

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Speaker 1: months later just fall off of our ear damage the

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Speaker 1: ears froze off of and so we had a we

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Speaker 1: had if we see this female separate, yeah, that's from freezing. No, no,

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Speaker 1: she's separate because this is the one we're coming to

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Speaker 1: look at. You tell what I'm saying. She got one horn?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know, but the one horn yet that

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Speaker 1: froze off. Do you guys go with bull calf or

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Speaker 1: bull kid? Male kid? So there's a calf, yeah, he said.

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Speaker 1: She's she's super protective, so she's basically standing over it.

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Speaker 1: So this this will be interesting. How long How long

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Speaker 1: is that calf born? Uh? I think yesterday afternoon or

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Speaker 1: evening so hard. Yeah, and we're not sure if it's

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Speaker 1: a male or female calfolic again because she's been super protective.

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Speaker 1: Um so I'm gonna get out. I would yeah, I

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Speaker 1: would know, I would. I would be korean. I'd be careful,

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Speaker 1: keep keep the truck between you and it. Yeah, yeah

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Speaker 1: they are okay, So yeah you got you got a bench.

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Speaker 1: She's growling at you. Yeah, they're been. It's very vocal.

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Speaker 1: Let they get I just so do you want some

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Speaker 1: distraction though? Ah? Yeah, this one y'all want. Haven't letting

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Speaker 1: me in? Finch'll tink? Wow. Yeah, I'm a good volunteer.

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Speaker 1: I would hate for you to get I have gove

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Speaker 1: into the front of the truck before with one of

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Speaker 1: these narrows narrowly missed me. Um so how do how

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Speaker 1: do they get how do they get the hook in you?

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Speaker 1: When they're there horns helping, They'll put their hand the

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Speaker 1: forehead all the way down there. That's what they do.

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Speaker 1: They come in. Also, they also use that horn like

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Speaker 1: a club. Oh the dear, so they'll they'll hit you

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Speaker 1: with it um, then the hookie with a harn as

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Speaker 1: those far as we're made out of elements, how they

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Speaker 1: feel a line. If they don't get a good line,

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Speaker 1: just the horn itself coming out of we'll lose a

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Speaker 1: filament inside the flesh on bad something distracted about that

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Speaker 1: thing stuck with them. These are serious business to get

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Speaker 1: taken care of, or you can lose your arm, your leg.

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Speaker 1: But what we're saying about with lines, so when they

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Speaker 1: get a hit on the line or whatever, the predator

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Speaker 1: is after him, if they don't kill them a lot

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Speaker 1: of times just the horn itself see the film, it's

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Speaker 1: hanging off that horn right there. It'll stay inside that wound.

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Speaker 1: It'll get infected and they'll die. You ask him like

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Speaker 1: like like splintered, like splinter it that cast only about

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Speaker 1: two days olmy yesterday. Every year, this one is very protective.

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Speaker 1: How many calves that she produced every year for at

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Speaker 1: least last ten years? Just a year and there somewhere

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Speaker 1: do a natural breathing or natural except for it's rased.

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Speaker 1: I've got I've got a herd bull that I want,

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Speaker 1: you know, pass the jeans along and he'll get it.

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Speaker 1: He'll get a herd of females, and then the other

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Speaker 1: herd of females has a different genetic background, so or

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Speaker 1: it'll get a different bull. Maybe you'll you'll, let's put

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Speaker 1: that's how you got your university. Make much closely? Maybe

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Speaker 1: m window okay, Chris Stee if you want us to

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Speaker 1: move off, it's easier just with no, No, it's not

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Speaker 1: gonna be easy anyway anyway, or for him, I've been there.

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Speaker 1: I just formulated a plan. Drive over it, Drive over it,

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Speaker 1: and it's just under the trump there it is. It's

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Speaker 1: a little boy. I think, Yeah, I'm good. Feels like it.

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Speaker 1: So it feels like future ball, all right. So this

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Speaker 1: is just a tag daughter. This is basically the same thing.

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Speaker 1: This is the only male when we'll keep this year,

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Speaker 1: just because, as I said earlier, the geneticist that's doing

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Speaker 1: the work on these animals, I thought this female was

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Speaker 1: a particular interest genetically. So a lot of times we'll

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Speaker 1: take and we'll take the tag and we'll pull the

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Speaker 1: tag out like that to get air behind it, and

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Speaker 1: they'll prevent it from getting sometimes since but they're not

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Speaker 1: bad about getting infected at all. Yeah, it was a healthy, strong,

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Speaker 1: young BULLI you want fasten the room, so you'll were

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Speaker 1: you were you guys like my kids are all grown up,

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Speaker 1: I'll hand it to you that way. And my nap

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Speaker 1: all the all the all the kids, whether it's bull

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Speaker 1: kids or a little fellas kids. I sell them as

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Speaker 1: he is of course once they're older. So I feel

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Speaker 1: it right now like we're snuggling and he's loving this

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Speaker 1: is his heart rate like way up because heart right

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Speaker 1: up the scary so we can and we also want

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Speaker 1: to take turn. You know, you want one of these

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Speaker 1: that this there's really only two times a year that

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Speaker 1: we have this kind of contact with them, and that's

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Speaker 1: this time of year. And it's usually only about six weeks,

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Speaker 1: a six week period um where they're where they're burthen

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Speaker 1: because I put the put both males in with each

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Speaker 1: one of the herds um at the same time of

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Speaker 1: the year. So well, how do you know the how

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Speaker 1: do you get all the females cycle at the same time.

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Speaker 1: They tend to cycle together once you put them in.

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Speaker 1: Once you if you if you don't have them reproducing constantly, um,

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Speaker 1: they tend to cycle together. So in that six week period,

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Speaker 1: they'll all cycle and they'll all get pregnant. That's been

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Speaker 1: my experience now in in in a wild population um

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Speaker 1: where you got the bulls with them constantly. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure the cycle their cycles are are are off set.

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Speaker 1: Quite a lot of their past ranges were all they're

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Speaker 1: breeding cycles to evolutionary were synchronized with vegetation range, and

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Speaker 1: that that was their biological signal that what they were

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Speaker 1: gonna do, they're gonna do. And so it's kind of

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Speaker 1: the evolution has taken it different. This is a different country,

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Speaker 1: but they're still, like you said, they're still evolutionary. They're

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Speaker 1: still locked in on it, and it's amazing. That's why

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Speaker 1: you see all those animals giving birth on that grass.

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Speaker 1: It's a hell of a feat. I mean from four

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Speaker 1: years ago there being none in their native range and

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Speaker 1: now there's a hunderfitted there and they're having kids. Those

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Speaker 1: kids are considered you know, of native stock, so they're

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Speaker 1: no longer considered endangered. This baby calf, let's just say

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Speaker 1: that he individually is tested or there's a sense of

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Speaker 1: what his genetics is. Is it possible that he would

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Speaker 1: be a chosen one time and these animals I tagged

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Speaker 1: him for that purpose because again that that side, that

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Speaker 1: damn was was told to me that of particular interest genetically.

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Speaker 1: So my plan is to keep all of her all

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Speaker 1: springs is for as long as she reproduces. I wish

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Speaker 1: I'd known that, you know, four or five years ago,

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Speaker 1: because I've had a lot more of her all free

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Speaker 1: representation on the range. The other aspect of having animals

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Speaker 1: out in a facility like this and multiple facilities and

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Speaker 1: this idea, this meta population, is that we've had to

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Speaker 1: rethink the number of individuals that you have to have

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Speaker 1: to keep your genetic variability um. And the goal is

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Speaker 1: in this program over the next hundred years to maintain

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Speaker 1: at least ninety and in the zoo world if you

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Speaker 1: keep them only in zoos, just because they don't have

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Speaker 1: the space to do that. I mean they there's something

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Speaker 1: like a total of a hundred and fifty eight of

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Speaker 1: the a zoos, they had roughly about eleven thousand acres,

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Speaker 1: and and just within our program it's closer to a

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand acres. And so the number of animals you

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Speaker 1: can get, you know, they used to think maybe you

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Speaker 1: need a few hundred, a couple undred, you know, now

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Speaker 1: they know you need well over a thousand, even two

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Speaker 1: thousand maybe or more. So that that is another aspect

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Speaker 1: of it that you know, having them in places like

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Speaker 1: this beyond just individual genes, you don't want to lose

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Speaker 1: variability at all, as you can and a lot of

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Speaker 1: times zoos running to breeding problems just some species just

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Speaker 1: don't want breading a zoo. You know, they they will,

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Speaker 1: but they don't like it, and so they missed times

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Speaker 1: and times or years and years or decades, and so

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Speaker 1: you can get behind quick. So when you have a

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Speaker 1: free range situation and and individuals like he's keeping track

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Speaker 1: of and and and switching out to keep that variability

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Speaker 1: in there. They that's there's where the truth the true

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Speaker 1: herds do well, and they're they're much more likely to

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Speaker 1: do better when they go back into the wild, being

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Speaker 1: in a wild or semi wild setting like this, you know,

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Speaker 1: and and having those traits. Yeah, there's gonna be some

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Speaker 1: fighting sometimes whatever, but obviously that serves them well, you know,

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Speaker 1: when they go back in versus a more docile animal.

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Speaker 1: That's you know, several generations removed in a a zoo

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Speaker 1: environment and whatever the appo genetics is, however, all that

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Speaker 1: works or you know, just um, just train and behavior,

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Speaker 1: not being passed on. So these animals are are likely

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Speaker 1: to do well and they have so far. All right,

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Speaker 1: now that we've visited the the young do you guys

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Speaker 1: go by calf? What do you there's a bull cow calf?

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Speaker 1: What is it in orcs? Really? Is that universally accepted

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Speaker 1: bull cow calf? All right, now that we've visited the

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Speaker 1: cow calfe unit of the scimitar horned ORCS, it's like,

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Speaker 1: walk me through, um, how that like, walk me through

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Speaker 1: how that animal fits into the broader picture of what

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Speaker 1: happens with the Conservation Centers for Species Survival, Like like

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Speaker 1: where it fits into the hierarchy of activities. Sure, So

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Speaker 1: the scimitar horned Orix is one of the ten species

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Speaker 1: and what's known as the Source Population Alliance, and that's

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Speaker 1: one of the programs under Conservation Centers for Species Survival

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Speaker 1: or C two S two for short. And we have

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Speaker 1: a number of different programs. Um, that one is focused

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Speaker 1: so other species um including cheetah, red wolf, southern black rhino.

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Speaker 1: The Source Population Alliance folcus is just on ungulate species

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Speaker 1: and it was originally four species, which were the ones

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Speaker 1: that we kind of discussed earlier and were the most

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Speaker 1: critically endangered or in the case of the scimitar horned Orix,

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Speaker 1: was extinct in the wild. It also included the addicts

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Speaker 1: and doma gazelle. Uh. And then the four species was

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Speaker 1: the sable antelope, which is not that's actually doing fairly well.

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Speaker 1: They were the original four and the concept was created

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Speaker 1: back in two thousand and five. There was an out

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Speaker 1: scientists named David Wilt Smithsonian. He was a reproductive physiologist

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Speaker 1: and did some great work including artificial insemination, etcetera. He noticed,

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Speaker 1: among others, that these animals, these angular species, were just

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Speaker 1: not doing as well in a zoo environment as they hoped.

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Speaker 1: So they looked at that. They were concerned because of

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Speaker 1: the space constraints, uh, not having normal social dynamics. This

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Speaker 1: idea of you needed to have if you wanted to

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Speaker 1: keep them alive in these ex C two settings, having

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Speaker 1: a meta population explained x C two an n C T.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's from archaeology, but it's yeah, it's one of

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Speaker 1: these sort of terms. It sounds fancy, it's pretty simple.

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Speaker 1: So n C two is just their native range, their

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Speaker 1: native habitat where they live. So again with with these guys,

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Speaker 1: the three we just mentioned, the scimitar, addicts and doma

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Speaker 1: gazelle that's sub Sahara Africa, okay, and so um that

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Speaker 1: would be n C two XC two is in were

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Speaker 1: removed out of that it's not their home range, okay.

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Speaker 1: And so the idea was we wanted to have you know,

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Speaker 1: the zoo world was set up for way back when

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Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons. Um, but the conservation aspects

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Speaker 1: several decades ago was there was I guess you'd say

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Speaker 1: re energized, refocused, and so these species survival plans were

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Speaker 1: created to try to maintain these populations and an ex

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Speaker 1: C two environment for a lot of reasons. And one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons was to have an assurance population if

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Speaker 1: something happened to the animals in their n C two

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Speaker 1: and the scimitar is a great example of that if

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Speaker 1: they go extinct. You don't want to lose the species

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Speaker 1: altogether if they get extirpated in that case. So these

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Speaker 1: species survival plans were set up and these animals were

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Speaker 1: bred for several decades in the zoo world, and they

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Speaker 1: did a great job. Again, they had the stud books,

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Speaker 1: they knew the lineages, you know, they knew, Hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna take this bull and breed it with this female

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Speaker 1: over here. But they were space constrained. And also again

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Speaker 1: it removed the natural conditions. It just take place and

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00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 1: how these species interact and compete, right and you know,

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Speaker 1: survival to fitnest, all that stuff. So David Wilton noticed this,

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Speaker 1: and so he and some other scientists got together and

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Speaker 1: some of our facilities and said, hey, let's take some

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Speaker 1: of these animals. Let's put them in you know, places

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Speaker 1: like in Bamberg already had simitar horned orcs, which is

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Speaker 1: a great story in and of itself that predates this.

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Speaker 1: But let's put them in these facilities where they have

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Speaker 1: you know, big ranges that are not truly they're not

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Speaker 1: in C. Two, but there they closely mimic where they

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Speaker 1: come from. And and so you know, if we put

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Speaker 1: them in there, we think they're gonna do a lot better.

399
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Speaker 1: You know, they're gonna breathe, their numbers are gonna build

400
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Speaker 1: up um and and our motto at C. TOWS two

401
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Speaker 1: is grow optimized return, So you know, grow the herd,

402
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Speaker 1: optimize the genetics, and then hopefully, you know, when possible,

403
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Speaker 1: return them into their native habitats. Do you guys feel

404
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: the last part of that, the return part, uh, the

405
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: strikes me as being immensely important. But you hear people

406
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: offen like you hear people hold the belief that, like, well,

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Speaker 1: it can't be like let's let's say we take the

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Speaker 1: scimitar horned orcs, which which effectively, if I'm not mistaken,

409
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Speaker 1: like it went extinct in the wild. Yeah, in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen nineties was when they think that the last ones

411
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Speaker 1: in the wild gone ceased to be a wild animal,

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Speaker 1: Like I feel that you couldn't then say like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but we have them in Texas, so that's good enough.

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Speaker 1: I completely agree. That seems like a sentiment you hear

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Speaker 1: a lot. Well, um, I think maybe you hear that

416
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Speaker 1: among some people they just like to have them as

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Speaker 1: I hate to say, ornaments or just property. We clearly

418
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Speaker 1: don't view it that way because we're a conservation organ

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Speaker 1: You rolled the return into it exactly. So when when

420
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Speaker 1: this who's the guy you're talking about, the geneticist or

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Speaker 1: David Willed, He was reproductive biologists. His interest was in

422
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Speaker 1: things that his interest was in species that were imperiled.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely on their name like that that was sort of

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Speaker 1: the that was sort of the thing that they had

425
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 1: to that had to be there for him to want

426
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: to absolutely, and and he was from Smithsonian and they've

427
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 1: done a lot of great work. They do our genomics

428
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: testing right now. Um and you know they did the

429
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: first AI on a cheetah a couple of years ago.

430
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: And so you guys have what we should have gone

431
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: looked at the cheetahs. Crint We Well they're running around

432
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: out here somewhere Steve can find. Um. Uh, they're a

433
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: variety of facilities. Yeah, yeah, there's and they're spread all over.

434
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: So we're we're mostly North America and with a heavy

435
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: emphasis and Texas again because climate would have you ranch ran. Yeah, absolutely,

436
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: and and breeding him and that that was another program

437
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: that was his success. Uh. That was about ten years

438
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: ago again kind of the same story. Cheat is definitely

439
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: smaller gene pool. Correct, that's correct because there were two

440
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: founder events with the cheetah. One was about a hundred

441
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: thousand years ago. They don't know for sure what had happened,

442
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: but you know, population got very small, and then about

443
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 1: twelve thousand years ago it happened again. Which is why

444
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 1: you can take in Africa in Africa, which is why

445
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: you can take um, you know, skin from one cheetah

446
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: and grafted on to another one. That's you know, two

447
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: countries over, and it'll take it. They're that closely related. Yeah, yeah,

448
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: it's crazy when they went through a major bottleneck, yes, twice,

449
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: and so that's why are just insane to think about. Yeah,

450
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: I mean in geologic terms, that's recent, right exactly. And

451
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: um is there is there an estimate how tight the

452
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: bottleneck was? Uh, in terms of a number of individuals,

453
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: I don't know off top of my head. I've heard

454
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 1: some I don't know if they know exactly. I mean

455
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: even humans went through that, you know, seventy humans exactly exactly. So, um,

456
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: so cheetahs are already in a bad state. And then

457
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: of course what's happened in the wild, and so this

458
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: idea of you know, breeding them and the North American

459
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: population it was, I want to say it was strug

460
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: glean but not doing as well as they needed it

461
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: to do. So we came up this idea we collectively,

462
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: um scientists and our facilities about hey, let's set up

463
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: these breeding centers, share best practices, you know, do all

464
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 1: these things. And and cheetah's successfully bred. Their numbers shot

465
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: way up in just five years, population I think nearly

466
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: doubled from the North American population. So that was a success,

467
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: and so we saw this model replicating UM over and

468
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: over and over again. Now every species is different, right,

469
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: but sorry, could you explain what constitutes the North American

470
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: cheetah population? UM? Well, that gets complicated, but historically they

471
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: were in a Z A Zoos um so Association Zoos

472
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: and Aquariums. That's the big organization. UM. It used to

473
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: be almost all zoos that were a credit or part

474
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: of that. There's another organization which is z A A

475
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: which is kind of a splinter group. UM. But in

476
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 1: any case, all there there's cheetahs who are in that.

477
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: We have stud books on them, and it's UM I

478
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: think it's several hundred. I think it's over five hundred now,

479
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: between those those two groups. But then you have all

480
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: of the illegal wildlife trade and depending on what the

481
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: laws are, you know, for each individual species. So there's

482
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: more cats obviously out there than that. UM. We're actually

483
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: on that. We're trying to assist with an effort to

484
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: what's called integrate these stud books between the various organizations

485
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: and international in the hopes of getting a better model

486
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: to manage these animals right, and and make breeding recommendations.

487
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: We've done some genomics testing already, and to do more

488
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: of it because for for them it's especially important. You know,

489
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: like Steve was saying, he's got this special scimitar, right, Well,

490
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: if you find one or two cheetahs, you know, you

491
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: may not be able to find those genes almost anywhere else,

492
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: and you don't want to lose those. Yeah, that's a question.

493
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: That's what I need to understand before I could really

494
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: go much fur other here is h are you guys

495
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: with the Sika deer in Maryland? Okay? So they got

496
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: now and the Delmarva Peninsula, so the east shore of

497
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: Chesapeake Bay. I mean I think got what ten thousand

498
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: of them now or something. They have an absolutely unknown

499
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: amount of deer because there's no way to there's no

500
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: way to measure them. But what they're able. Yeah, they

501
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: gotta pile them and they're able to go to there.

502
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: You could I have had a guy take me out

503
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: the boat. The islands barely there anymore, but he's able

504
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: to be Like you know, Bob Johnson had six on

505
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: that island and that's it. He got him, and he

506
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: got him from some guy in England, and the guy

507
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: in England got him from some guy there, and no

508
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: six swam to the beach and not the ten thousand

509
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: of them. There's no like and then some other guy

510
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: let some go. Right, it's just like you know where

511
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: they came from. But how many people how many people

512
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: cut loosa cheetah or cut loose's? I mean, how many

513
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: people go to Africa and bring home a scimitar horned

514
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: works the Ohio Zoo were at well or the private

515
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: collection rather that all of a sudden, well close to

516
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: twenty years ago, the the importation of these animals was

517
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: um basically cut off, I think primarily because of disease considerations.

518
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: So how many years ago I think it was close

519
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: to twenty now. Yeah, so it's actually a problem in

520
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: some like for instance, uh, there's about a little bit

521
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: less than forty Southern black rhinos in North America. We

522
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: manage that population conjunction with the International Rhino Foundation, and

523
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: we need some more bloodlines. But importing them is almost

524
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: impossible now because the political situation. But on the ungulate side, um,

525
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: it's it's just as difficult because you can't get them

526
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: in so you kind of have what you have now.

527
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,239
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that's what I'm trying to get at,

528
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: is do you now know? Let me give you no

529
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: let me give you no. Example. Um, in the late

530
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, when people were thinking themselves, holy ship, like

531
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: the American bison is going to go extinct, they would

532
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 1: write letters to each other and be like he has four,

533
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: he has three, right, and you kind of knew like,

534
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: well he got his that way, he got his that way. Uh,

535
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: how is it is? There is there like in Texas

536
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: an unknown number of times when someone managed to try

537
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: ship uh scimitar horned orcs to Texas or can you

538
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: be like, oh no, there was that event, that event

539
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: and that event that led them to be dispersed around

540
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: the state. Well, population dynamics change some of that in itself. Unbeknowing, dush,

541
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: it's a population dynamics. So these areas were changing. You had,

542
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: you had perilous storms hit, you had equipment failures where

543
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,959
Speaker 1: they escaped like you're talking about on the island. So

544
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: so as as time moved forward with the escapes and

545
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 1: the evolution of wildlife diseases, a lot of these endeavors

546
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: got more and more complicated. What endeavors. Uh, where you

547
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: had someone had a pin failure, a pasture failure, or

548
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: a ranch failure, fence, water gap, whatever, and they escaped.

549
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: And in that period of time, population was growing. But

550
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: at the same time, evolution of wildlife diseases for changing

551
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: right in front of our our eyes. Now, I gotta

552
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: let me, I gotta re ask my question. Well, I

553
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: think I know I'm not explaining the question. Let me.

554
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: I think I know you may be going with this,

555
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: so I have a really clean way to do it.

556
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: How many times that the human being How many times

557
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: did human beings collect orcs in the Sahara desert and

558
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: dry and fly them, ship, sail them whatever, and caught

559
00:33:55,040 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: them loose in Texas once? Um, I don't know the

560
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: exact Do you know the answer to that? It was enough? Well,

561
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,919
Speaker 1: here's the thing. It depends on the species, right, So

562
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: if there weren't on the e s A prior to

563
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: this importation, man, if they were on the s A,

564
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: then yeah, you can import kind of whatever back in

565
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: the day in Texas. So I don't think they were tracked. Now,

566
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: the zoos tracked them very closely because they had stud

567
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: books and if they were in a species survival plan

568
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: they know exactly and you know they exchange them and

569
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: you know, bringing reasons all that. But the other species

570
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 1: that came in prior to you know, this band, Yeah,

571
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: we don't really know. But they weren't thousands and thousands

572
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: of events like this. These were these were very well

573
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: founded connections in a lot of cases and and limited

574
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: numbers of imports. They weren't. They weren't just across the

575
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: country importing them like you, like you one may have think.

576
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,439
Speaker 1: But what happened is is if you if you look

577
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 1: at the habitat, the terrain and topography via Texas, if

578
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: you spend someone around and you can put them in

579
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: a certain part of Texas, they can't hardly tell if

580
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: they're in Africa Texas. So what happened the synonymous habitat

581
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: the weather belts were very conducive to those animals, making

582
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,439
Speaker 1: it so boom boom boom. The stool went from three

583
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: legs to five legs, to ten legs to twelve legs.

584
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: So it wasn't hundreds of events, it was the responsibility

585
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: are the preclude however you want to look at it

586
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: of a group of ranchers that started this from from

587
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: from a from a limited number of individuals. They sold them,

588
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: they trade them, and then you throw in the escapes

589
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: the other things that perpetuate them. Because we've got in

590
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: some of these counties we've got free range and exotics.

591
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: No one really owns them. But do you know, I'll

592
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: put it to rest, like I understand that the answer

593
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: is not as clean as I'd like it to be.

594
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: But what was the first year that that someone What

595
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: was the first year that someone delivered an or a

596
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 1: scimitar horned orcs to the United States of America. I

597
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: don't know that. I don't know that. I do know.

598
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: Then in the nineteen thirties, thing was the San Antonio Zoo.

599
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: UM I forget his first name, Mr Friederick. He got

600
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: some surplus animals they they had and put them on

601
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: a couple of ranches around here. And then it wasn't

602
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: too long after that. I'm sure you're familiar with the

603
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: King Ranch, right, They got some exotics down here as well.

604
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 1: And there were a couple of other famous um exotic

605
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: ranches in Texas. There's one in the hill country called

606
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: the Yo Ranch, and so a lot of these animals

607
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: just came, you know, they were there and so that

608
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,799
Speaker 1: that was around when yes, and then you had maybe

609
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: some surplus animals from zoos or whatever happened way back,

610
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: and you know they were, however, put to pasture any

611
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 1: certain places. The scimitar is a different story though, because

612
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: there was only a smattering of those animals, and I'll

613
00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: let Steve tell the whole story. But zoos, a few

614
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: zoos around the country had them in. Basically almost the

615
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: entire world's population was gathered up. And so uh here

616
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 1: on the ranch it was in uh n UM that

617
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: don't quote me on that. It might have been eighty

618
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: five UM. But Mr Barenberger was a board member for

619
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: the Santonio Zoo UM and they they had the grand

620
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 1: meeting to discuss the plight of the scimitar armed rics

621
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: and a couple of the other ungulates that we worked

622
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: with with the Source Population Alliance UM. And he was

623
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: privy to that as a board member UM, and he volunteered,

624
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: basically volunteered UH to offer his ranch up as a

625
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 1: place where they can bring bring all the known genetics

626
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: to one spot to begin this species survival program UM.

627
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: So at that time or short after that meeting, UM,

628
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: they brought in this as as a member of the

629
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: a z A UH. They brought uh twenty eight animals

630
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: and those twenty animals representing thirty one different bloodlines to

631
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: begin the species of survival program right here on the ranch.

632
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: And it was that that sort of was that like

633
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: the Texas bottleneck of that species. There was there probably

634
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: quite a bit more that weren't included in that initial

635
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: round up. Well, they're likely were other animals that were

636
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 1: not as a animals, but not many. I mean, that

637
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 1: was pretty much it. I mean, he he literally saved

638
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: the scimitar, horned or x. But that seems incredibly diverse

639
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: for such a you know, very few animals. But but

640
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,680
Speaker 1: they but they were very successful at breeding and perpetuating.

641
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: Whereas in the zoo environment they were there, We knew

642
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: they were there. We had genetics going on that that

643
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,840
Speaker 1: you could see and touch, but not to the extent

644
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: of what they did when they put them on a

645
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: on an open range, quote ranch, whether high finch or

646
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: low finch, most of them are behind high fench because

647
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: they'll get a wipe from you. But but the the

648
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: perpetuation of them was astounding, how well they did. And

649
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: that's almost exactly right. We were fortunate because there are

650
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: that many bloodlines and they had come from different places.

651
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: There was some risks there because you know, what if

652
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: we had had a disease outbreak or something and you know,

653
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,959
Speaker 1: you got your eggs in one basket. Which is why

654
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: this idea and why we use the term meta population

655
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,959
Speaker 1: is that you've got a population here, over here, over here,

656
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: and together they make up this greater population, which is

657
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: in a reservoir, if you will, an assurance population. Um.

658
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: But but you know, thank goodness that they did that

659
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: because it's you know, im possible as animal would not

660
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: be around if that were not the case, not be

661
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: around period. Not just in Texas, correct, And I think

662
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: there were some other individuals um maybe in Europe and

663
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: some other places, but uh, this was certainly North America

664
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: and and may have been I don't know, see if

665
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: you know, the largest and only sizeable population in the world.

666
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 1: I mean, it was certainly a cornerstone of it. So

667
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: it's very important to what you were talking about, the

668
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 1: return aspect, because you know that very possibly, if not likely,

669
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 1: would not have occurred with without someone like Mr Bamburger's

670
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: vision to do that. And and some of this was

671
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: not just chance. These these these group of individuals, they

672
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: they knew of the sononymunity of Texas versus Africa, and

673
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: they theorize if they could just get them here, they

674
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: would they would perpetuate because of the synonymous of the

675
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: two countries, the habitat, the temperatures and all that. And

676
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: of course they were right. You know how it seems

677
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: like you hear more and more about these, particularly over

678
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: the last decades, Like the idea of a seed bank

679
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: right where you have where they built that one in Northon,

680
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think that's right, nor somewhere where

681
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: they have this they built this perfectly, that's right, stable

682
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: underground climate and they just store seeds there right that

683
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: there would be some global catastrophe and then you start

684
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: from scratch, right, plant stuff in the ground. Um that

685
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: with with mammals, I'm guessing that doesn't work to go

686
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: and uh have like a bank of frozen embryos that

687
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: you can't do that they don't like lose, you know,

688
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: I mean, like without sort of a continuity of like

689
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: we watched today, Right, we go out and there's a

690
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: mother and she you know you you wanna get her calf,

691
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: put it your tag in it. She doesn't want you

692
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 1: to do that, right, she presumably picked where she was

693
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 1: gonna give birth, Like, this is stuff she is exposed to,

694
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: has done it before, learned from it. Um, I imagine

695
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 1: you thaw that stuff out and do it like you

696
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: probably you have to lose something like a herd, like

697
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: a sort of like her dynamic knowledge base or something

698
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: that's done. So yeah, that's what I mean. Like you

699
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like how important is it to

700
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 1: have because like appartially, if you look like I'd never

701
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,240
Speaker 1: give animals and zoos any I don't give me any credit.

702
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, Okay, there it is, but it's

703
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: not right. It is, but it's not. It's species specific.

704
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: It is, and it's a different it's it's all a

705
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 1: different theater versus what there's. There's great merit to zoos,

706
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:26,720
Speaker 1: but they have their limits and the the the the

707
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: issues with the property having the propensity to look like

708
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: act like ce like function like the open range. There's

709
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 1: no substitute for him because they do a lot of

710
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 1: different things out there they don't do in a captive situation.

711
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 1: Yeah that's what. Yeah, that's the thing. Maybe it's probably

712
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 1: not easily answered, but well, there's some species like wolves

713
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: where it's far and I'm you know, I'm not wolf biologists,

714
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: but if you turn them loose, they just kind of

715
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:59,959
Speaker 1: know it to do, right, That's that's not necessarily the case.

716
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: The mother has to teach them how to hunt and

717
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: talk about big cats in a way. Right. So but

718
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 1: to your point, I mean, that's that's relevant. But yeah,

719
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: we we do do UM. There's an O site capture

720
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: you know, certain species and sperm banking UM. And even

721
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: if the species doesn't go extinct, you want to keep

722
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 1: some of those genetic traits. Like for example, we have

723
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: some rhinos that you know are have reproductive pathologies or

724
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: you know, old or whatever, but they might have some

725
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: valuable traits. Well we can't breed them, but um as

726
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: AI techniques artificial insemination get developed. Having a sperm bank

727
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: that becomes very useful in the future, right to reintroduce

728
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: those genetics so that animal, the line of that animal

729
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: is not lost. So even if this species doesn't go extinct,

730
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: that's still important. But yeah, obviously there you know, there's

731
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,959
Speaker 1: some other dynamics in there about behavior and training, and

732
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: you know, some of these species you you have to

733
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 1: maintain animals on the around doing what they do in

734
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: order to make that egg bank seed bank. Let's try

735
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: an actual resource. Well yeah, although even with the newer techniques,

736
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: there's some new organizations that are foreigned about talking about

737
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 1: trying to bring back the wooly mammoth. It's yeah, so

738
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: are you guys into that or is that annoy you guys? Um,

739
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 1: let me put it this way, It's not what we do, okay. Um. However,

740
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: there are maybe some advantages of the in terms of

741
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 1: what you learn and some applications genetically. Yeah, because they're

742
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 1: not bringing back the woe mammoth. Well, they're they're messing

743
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: with an age and el to eventually accumulate a bunch

744
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: of traits where you can be like, that's probably a

745
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 1: little bit what it looked like. So but although you

746
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 1: never know it happened in the future, it is a

747
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: little annoying because but the stuff blinking out right now,

748
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: it's like, we have a thing we don't even you know,

749
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: we have a thing that went extinct, I don't know,

750
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: thirteen twenty thousand years ago for unknown causes. But meanwhile,

751
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: the you know, the mammals on the planet have a

752
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: sort of viable pathway to extinction and we're in and

753
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: now you've got all these like celebrity investors in this

754
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: whole mammoth project, or even we haven't we haven't sequenced

755
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: all of our animals yet in the SPA, so there's

756
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: an a neat immediate need, you know, for that. And

757
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 1: you know they're still alive and most of them are

758
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: still in the wild, so absolutely. Um. You know, again,

759
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 1: there are some techniques that I think will be very

760
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: important that they're going to learn from. Yeah, it's like

761
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: the argument like, if it wasn't for NASA, we wouldn't

762
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: have tough lin Yeah, exactly, Like, but but they put

763
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:49,439
Speaker 1: all that money into pan codings, Yeah, hell of pand coding. Well,

764
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: I mean we we read about stuff every single day. Right,

765
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 1: It's like, and this got collected a hundred hundred years ago.

766
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 1: It's been sitting in this categorize shelf, and then all

767
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 1: of a sudden, somebody's well, we have this new thing.

768
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: Let me take a look at that old copper light.

769
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 1: Oh my god, there's a rattlesnake in there. Uh. But

770
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: it's like, I'd love to know the hierarchy of needs

771
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 1: of the preservation of species, right, because you take an

772
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: animal that has this very known uh system of learned behavior,

773
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,399
Speaker 1: like I have to teach my young how to build

774
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: the nest, I have to nurture a bunch of eggs

775
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: to get some to hatch. I have to then teach

776
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,880
Speaker 1: these little baby birds how to fly and and we

777
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: know that doesn't happen. But but also things that are

778
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,319
Speaker 1: just so much like if there's not water here, go

779
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: look over there. Yeah, like that's not carried in the egg, right, yeah,

780
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: but hopefully that that's a smell thing it goes right.

781
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: I mean there's some species that we know, right, like

782
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: the sandhill crane, right is like that thing wants to

783
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: do everything but lift. I just was I said sandhill

784
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: crane instead of whooping crane. Some of those behaviors can

785
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 1: be taught I think by animal caretakers. You know, uh,

786
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: there's probably a limit there, so um, you know, any

787
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 1: anytime you alter their their natural learning ability, your influence

788
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: and possibility what they're gonna do in the future is

789
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: far survivability. There's a lot of belief that if they

790
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 1: if they can't do it on their own, they can't

791
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: do it, and maybe maybe their their history is uh

792
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: is dictated but but the thing that we do know now,

793
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: and I'll go back to the zoos versus the free range.

794
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: Both of those places have have great purpose, but that

795
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,399
Speaker 1: the free range situation like we were in today, even

796
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: though it's an enclosure, it's it's so much closer to

797
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: what they're supposed to be doing, and they know it,

798
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: and they do well, and they respond well from it,

799
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: and that's reflected by like a very tangible result, right,

800
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 1: which is off for well. And look at the ages

801
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,400
Speaker 1: of those animals where we were at today that that

802
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 1: have we influenced That obviously we have. But but again,

803
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 1: when when you have that scenario and they're not in

804
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: cages or pens and cages in the fair term for

805
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: an ungulent like that, they're just gonna do better. But

806
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 1: but some of this was not by accident. On the scimitars,

807
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: there were people that knew if they could get them

808
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: to Texas, they felt like they were going to propagate

809
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: and do well. And those those few individuals with some

810
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: other carrying individuals were right. And this this is really

811
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,920
Speaker 1: a success story as he as he pointed out early

812
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: because these things were they were gone. Basically, Now the

813
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,959
Speaker 1: next species might not do exactly what this species did

814
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: because they're they're all different biologically and they're different sociologically

815
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 1: how they roam and how they how they they do.

816
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 1: So answer, it's always better obviously if you have the

817
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: species and they can learn from their own. But we

818
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 1: have gotten a lot better. And I teach a couple

819
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: of animal behavior classes at a couple of universities, and

820
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 1: like in the bird world, they've learned this like a

821
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 1: navy ecologists I work with training these birds, you know,

822
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: how to look for threats, right, Oh, yeah, it's amazing

823
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: what they've done is that now you know you hear this,

824
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: you know, alarm, this is this it means it's an

825
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 1: owl or this kind of hawk. Um. And there's a

826
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: famous example. They tried to introduce thick billed parents. I

827
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: think it was in the eighties back into the uh

828
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: southeastern Arizona and um, I think you've been hunting down

829
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 1: their cou's here, right, And they put him in there

830
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: and they were great. They had done great, except they

831
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 1: had no idea that hawks were a threat. They all

832
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: got wiped out. That was That's like I'm sort of

833
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: like pulling all these little snippets from things I know

834
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: from native wildlife in the US and trying to like

835
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: interject them here. But when you talk to people who

836
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 1: are involved in the recovery of the American wild turkey,

837
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,919
Speaker 1: sort of the the aha moment was, you can't put

838
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: pen raised turkeys down up exactly. They're all dead just

839
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: they get annihilated. And you had to put you had

840
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,239
Speaker 1: to put like wild reared. You had to put wild

841
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,359
Speaker 1: reared birds on the ground if they're gonna have any

842
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: chance they had, you know, having any idea about how

843
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: to avoid predators. And another iconic thing about the simitars

844
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: that I find very interesting is sometimes we're our worst

845
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 1: on enemies. We have carrying individuals, knowledgeable individuals. They bring

846
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: them over here, they do good and lo and behole.

847
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,879
Speaker 1: We get a regulation that almost sent them backwards again. Yeah,

848
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: I wanted to have you tell that story, but let

849
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:40,040
Speaker 1: me hold that because that's important to hear um. But

850
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: I got one more. I got another question, just like

851
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 1: particular to the scimitar and horned orcs and how like

852
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: like let's let's say here in the US, you have

853
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: people who are globally aware, right they and globally ecologically aware.

854
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,959
Speaker 1: They understand that this species is imperiled on its native range.

855
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:04,720
Speaker 1: It's to candidate for extinction. Right. Um, at what point

856
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: do do those individuals or like your organization, at what

857
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 1: point do you wind up forming some form of contact

858
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: with the government or the the the the proper agency

859
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,240
Speaker 1: in one of these countries where the country is perhaps

860
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 1: almost a failed state. Right, Like if you were to

861
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: right now recognize that there's a species in Afghanistan, I'm

862
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: sure there are many. Um. Yeah, so you're like, okay,

863
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: the snow leopard ranges in Afghanistan. You know, at what

864
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 1: point does someone go and and introduce themselves to the

865
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: Taliban to say, we understand you have a problem, we'd

866
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: like to help. Yeah, that's got to be like a

867
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: tricky It's very tricky. And so because you've already got

868
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: so much money into it. Yeah, and so I asked

869
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: this question a while back with the cheetah with some scientists,

870
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: and it gets into politics, It gets into you know,

871
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: these species off and times, particularly animal like a cat

872
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: like that that will you know, in some cases have

873
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: very large territories, make cross boundaries. You've got different laws

874
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,440
Speaker 1: and some of them it's like, well, we're doing reintroductions. No,

875
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: we only want native you know, born animals here. So

876
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,359
Speaker 1: there's all kinds of things. So typically what ends up

877
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: happening is you have to have multiple organizations involved who

878
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,240
Speaker 1: are working together and clearly one or two on the ground.

879
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,800
Speaker 1: So in Chad where the scimitars were reintroduced, there's Sahara

880
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: Conservation Fund. Really was were the guys on the ground

881
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: who put this together, but they had to have financial backing.

882
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: And the whole program was a success because of the

883
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: Environment Agency of Abu Dhabi, you know, and they helped

884
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 1: lead this, put the resources in. You know, they kept

885
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: they had their own stock of scimitars, so you have

886
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:51,879
Speaker 1: to have buying, and then they had to go get

887
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: buy in from the locals, you know, because these are

888
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: on pastoral lands, there's domestic livestock running around, so yeah,

889
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 1: it is tricky and so you have to have a

890
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: lot of buying and you know, we found this out

891
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: here as you well know, from reintroducing like the wolf

892
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: here and the learnings they got from that. The first ones,

893
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 1: the red wolf was the first one they did was

894
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: and then the you know, the gray wolf of Mexican

895
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: wolf is that you've got to have buy in from

896
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: the state agencies and then from local landowners, people are

897
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 1: gonna have to deal with that, and you have to

898
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: have a comprehensive plan to make it all work. And

899
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: if you don't have that, you're gonna run into problems.

900
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,120
Speaker 1: So I think we know a lot more about that

901
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: than we used to. But this is why, even though

902
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: we may have enough numbers of a lot of these species,

903
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: if the conditions aren't right on the ground, then you know,

904
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 1: there's no point you're reintroducing. At that point, do you

905
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:46,400
Speaker 1: have can you think of examples of of animals were, uh,

906
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 1: you're poised to do a reintroduction, but the situation on

907
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,240
Speaker 1: the ground is just not like you're in a holding

908
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: pattern because of the political climate. Um yeah, sure, yeah,

909
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:01,959
Speaker 1: Well in terms of numbers of animals, yeah, um, there's

910
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 1: several I mean, you know, the cheetah is one example

911
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: where certainly there's some possibilities there, but again given the

912
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 1: political situation and different laws, and and again we're not

913
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 1: the ones my organization is not the one that does

914
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: the reintroduction. To be clear about that, right, you'll just

915
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 1: show up and no, no, but um, but yeah, there's

916
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 1: there's several species. Cheetah would be one of them. You know,

917
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: and then the and then the other element that we

918
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 1: haven't talked about, but it's a major element, is conflict

919
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 1: with people. Some of these species are not viewed as

920
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: we're saving the species. The classic example of that was

921
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 1: the reintroduction of the wolf. There were big support to

922
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: do that until the public, the ranchers got into it,

923
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 1: and it got in conflict, and and it and its

924
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: remained in conflict ever since. And uh, the dynamics of

925
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: the population swelling and growing. We're talking about Montana, Texas

926
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: is going through it all. All these western states are

927
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: going through this. So some of these species there are

928
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: other lines to walk and they may not get that

929
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 1: chance because of that. Well, it doesn't doesn't even need

930
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 1: to be a unulate versus a predator. At the Rocky Mountain,

931
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 1: elk is a big issue with a lot of ranching communities.

932
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 1: So we're buffalo if you talk to those, Yeah, it's

933
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 1: not even um competition. That's like recovering your own that's

934
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 1: what they're recovering your own native wildlife where you have

935
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 1: the animals. We just don't have the public willpower and

936
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: and the real truth maybe there are just some species

937
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 1: that aren't going to have the gracious because of because

938
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: of these issues we're talking about right now, and then

939
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: you get in even other issues like you brought in

940
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 1: the bison. We've looked at that is you have domesticated bison,

941
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: they've got cattle jeans. Well, you don't want those in

942
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:01,400
Speaker 1: a wild population, you know, for a lot of reasons.

943
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:03,799
Speaker 1: And so how do you manage that? I don't want

944
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 1: to straight too far by totally disagreement. I think it

945
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 1: looks like one. I think that people make that all

946
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:10,840
Speaker 1: at this point. If it looks like one, let's go

947
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 1: with it. So then you'd want the William mammoth brought

948
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 1: back because it looks, well, here looks like I don't.

949
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: But I'm saying you wind up being that. You wind

950
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: up you have like verma So they have genetically pure ones, Yellowstone,

951
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 1: they got genetically pure ones Vermaho. It's just not that

952
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: many of them. Meanwhile, you got well here's the one

953
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 1: half a million of them. You got half a million

954
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: of them on the contin but here's the one seven

955
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 1: thousand or up to snuff the real truth. Maybe you

956
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 1: can't get them back here again. And and Buffalo is

957
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: a perfect clash of that example of that. You start

958
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,399
Speaker 1: looking at how many of these buffalo have cattle jeans

959
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 1: and them lots of them do. But can you look

960
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 1: at him and tail? No, not not every time. And

961
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: if I was anti if I was anti bis and recovery,

962
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: which I'm not, if I was anti bias recovery, I

963
00:56:58,480 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 1: would be like, you know what I'm gonna do, like

964
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,239
Speaker 1: like a totally mock a Machiavellian move, and that would

965
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 1: be like, oh no, no, no, I'm all for it.

966
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: But they have to be genetically pure. That's how I

967
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: would win my fight. Yeah, which I didn't want it

968
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: to have. The one caveat to that is that um,

969
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:19,640
Speaker 1: in some places they are selecting bison to be more domesticated,

970
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: and so you can imagine and so over a long

971
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,959
Speaker 1: period of time, you know, if that gets into um

972
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: Daylor when I think was his name, He was the U. C.

973
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: Davis professor who was like the foremost bison expert. That

974
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 1: was his concern. Yeah, that It wasn't that. It was

975
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 1: like it was like my comment about so I understand

976
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: what you're In fact, that doma gazelle. Actually there's a

977
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:46,960
Speaker 1: they thought for a while it was a subspecies. There's

978
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: two colors there's one that's a predominantly kind of burnt

979
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: orange looking and there's once pure white, and they thought, well,

980
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 1: it's you know, different gene or the subs. It's not,

981
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: it's a phenotype. Right. So but had that been the case,

982
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: I da mix those, do you not? You know? And

983
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 1: so I understand where you're coming from on that um.

984
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, because the more we learned about genetics and genomics,

985
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 1: like there used to just be one species of black rhino,

986
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: and then they realize, well, no, there's a Eastern, there's

987
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 1: a southern. Well, actually there's a southwestern, when now there's

988
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 1: a western. Several of them have gone extinct, right, So

989
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: where do you draw the line? You know, it's a

990
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 1: good point. I guess you have to weigh someone's motivations

991
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 1: and then and then help trust it. Okay, let's I

992
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 1: know the basic outline of the story. Someone the scimitar

993
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: horned orcs it's going extinct. Someone's like, hey, there's a

994
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: bunch of in Texas, thank god, and then they want

995
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: to say, okay, no one in Texas touch one. And

996
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 1: people didn't like that and it was counterproductive. How close

997
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 1: is that's the reality? The story I just told well,

998
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: I I think the word they is is probably begs

999
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: to be defined so well meaning probably people that thought

1000
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be commercialized because of other things in other

1001
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: places and other issues that were going on. But but

1002
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: those particular group of people weren't looking at the perpetuation

1003
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 1: of that species and what was going on. And the

1004
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:18,240
Speaker 1: minute they came in and they put those regulations on them,

1005
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: what was the regulation, Well, it had to do with movement,

1006
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: hunting and barter cell exchange and trade. They hadn't it.

1007
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: They were on the SA, but there was an exemption.

1008
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: Then they removed the exemption. This has been two thousand twelve,

1009
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:37,000
Speaker 1: I think. Okay, And who's the essay? How are they

1010
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:40,520
Speaker 1: on the US listed species because it's global, Because it's global,

1011
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: it's not just US species. They don't look at Texas

1012
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: and make the law for the world. It's a global

1013
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: view of that species. And of course I know governor

1014
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: like was is that the i c U N Like

1015
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:59,919
Speaker 1: who's the governing like, who's the governing body that would

1016
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 1: say like they're imperiled there, don't mess with them in Texas. Well. Ultimately,

1017
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: I think it was our decision for the E s A.

1018
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: But It's like if a species is imperiled, you know,

1019
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: wherever its native habitat is, right, then it's it's considered

1020
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: under the umbrella of the s A. I mean, it's endangered,

1021
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 1: So any of those protocols can come into play in

1022
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: terms of what you can and can't do. So once

1023
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: it's endangered, then there's criteria under that endangered title, and

1024
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: that criteria may say barter, cell, exchange, hunt, transport, all

1025
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 1: those things can be under there. And what happened is

1026
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: that happened to that species of animal. And when it

1027
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 1: did that thing, that that plan that was going on

1028
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: right before our eyes came to our crashing halt in Texas.

1029
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna speak for Texas because I'm more familiar

1030
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 1: with the plan being people distributing, allowing to breathe. Yes,

1031
01:00:54,800 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 1: because commercialization was predicating those numbers, and and commercialization was

1032
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 1: the mother. It was pushing the numbers out, and because

1033
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 1: there was a market for animals in the state, and

1034
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 1: a byproduct of that market was creating more of them

1035
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 1: and then you couldn't hunt them. Of course, you know,

1036
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,880
Speaker 1: the market was dictating that people wanted to trade them

1037
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 1: and all whatever people's view of that is that's the

1038
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 1: reality of it, right, and so you know the market

1039
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:26,840
Speaker 1: crash and then furthermore, if you had them on your ray.

1040
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 1: I mean this is an exception, and all of our

1041
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 1: facilities are like that. We're conservation, so we don't actually

1042
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: hunt them here because we're trying to increase their numbers.

1043
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: But then you couldn't even hunt your own, So what

1044
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: do you do with them at that point? And here

1045
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 1: they go. They're perpetuating, right, So there you're saying, there's

1046
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 1: some and and listen, it's for every listener out there. Um,

1047
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if the folks in this room like

1048
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: it or not. The very first thing that we did

1049
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 1: today was get a ci entire horn oracs and put

1050
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:55,240
Speaker 1: in your tag in it. So if you think about

1051
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 1: it with along the lines of every animal out there

1052
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 1: that have your tags and are run around in past years,

1053
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: that's what we're talking about in the commercialization right now. So, um,

1054
01:02:06,880 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: there were individuals out there who had purchased scimitar horned

1055
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 1: orcs during this period where all of a sudden they're on.

1056
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 1: So if we we tag him for a slightly different reason,

1057
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 1: because we track and we do a census count every

1058
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 1: year of you know, how many offspring, how many die, etcetera,

1059
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: And so he needs to track them. And for genetics

1060
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 1: reasons as well. You know we oh that's animal number

1061
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 1: twenty eight whatever. So that's the reason primary that we

1062
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 1: do that. So, but there's other folks out there who

1063
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: are like, I'm gonna buy some of these, I'm gonna

1064
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: have them specifically for the reason that I'm gonna hunt

1065
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 1: them on my ranch. But then when that regulation came down,

1066
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: they just became animals that were competing against the other

1067
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: animals that had all of a sudden had more value. Yeah,

1068
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: and they can't do anything with them. They can't hunt him,

1069
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 1: you can't trade him, and so they're just paying to

1070
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 1: feed them. So what did happen to him? Like the

1071
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,440
Speaker 1: numbers went down? Solution people shot him out of spite.

1072
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 1: Well you're not supposed to, but you know, I'm sure

1073
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 1: some of that happened. They did. Let's let's let's be frank.

1074
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:14,760
Speaker 1: They the numbers dwintals for whatever reason, because the value

1075
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 1: now was not on the animal. The value is what

1076
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 1: brought the incentive to perpetuate the animal. And we were

1077
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 1: in Texas probably well I know, so we got more

1078
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 1: than anybody, and and and he was selling them to

1079
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 1: a rancher. We were capturing them, we were moving him

1080
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 1: over here. We were moving him for this reason, this reason.

1081
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 1: But everybody had a reason to perpetuate that animal. And

1082
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 1: when those reggs came down, all of a sudden, it

1083
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 1: disant it disincentivized us and ranchers. This is speculation, but

1084
01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 1: was the was the first off? What you're are we

1085
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: talking about, um? Is it that it was risk the

1086
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 1: exemption was put back in. Okay, so there was. So

1087
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 1: there's a two year window when this this was going on,

1088
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: when this this sort of the prohibition on hunting, prohibition

1089
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,200
Speaker 1: on moving. Whether it's like an exemption that was lifted

1090
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,520
Speaker 1: or not, let's just describe it as like a prohibition

1091
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 1: on these activities, was a two year window that the

1092
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 1: number of animals during that two year window actually go down? Yeah,

1093
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 1: they have, but they so what I'm saying is they

1094
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 1: weren't dying an old age. I mean there's like a

1095
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 1: little bit of spite, right, Well, if I had to venture, guess, like,

1096
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 1: you saw how defensive that mother was. We talked about

1097
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 1: how aggressive the bulls are in fighting. I'm sure they

1098
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 1: can be detrimental on other animals inside your pastory there too,

1099
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 1: or they're just beating themselves to death. Sometimes I can

1100
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 1: speak on on the ranches behalf. But for those two

1101
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:05,840
Speaker 1: years we had no breeding. I kept the males completely

1102
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 1: separate from the females again, because what what were we

1103
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 1: gonna do with them? We had We had our own

1104
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 1: We have our own carrying capacity, which is top on

1105
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 1: a good year of sixty animals. Right now, I got

1106
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:22,439
Speaker 1: forty five animals um with with addition of a bunch

1107
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 1: of young. Um. If this year continues to be as

1108
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 1: dry as it is now, I'm likely gonna have to downstop.

1109
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna run the grass. So we could we could.

1110
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 1: We couldn't breed because you had no outlet. Yeah, I

1111
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:37,920
Speaker 1: couldn't get rid of them. You have no outlet for

1112
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:40,840
Speaker 1: the ones that weren't essential for your program. And and

1113
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: and one thing that we that we haven't mentioned, but

1114
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:48,200
Speaker 1: but I participated in this. When that was lifted. We

1115
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 1: we had people that reached out and said, I want

1116
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 1: to multifacet my operation. Um, I don't want cattle anymore.

1117
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:59,000
Speaker 1: I want something that has multi value to it. So

1118
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 1: we in the lot of cases we had Semitars, we

1119
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: had Neil Guy, We had other undulus that were that

1120
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: were exotics that were also used to manage grass pastures

1121
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 1: just like cattle, but we had a multi value for them.

1122
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 1: We could breed them, we could sell them, we could

1123
01:06:14,560 --> 01:06:18,280
Speaker 1: hunt them, we could manage grass communities with him. So

1124
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 1: now now we've got an incentive on them, and that's

1125
01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 1: where we're at today, and that's why the numbers are

1126
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 1: here like they are. But they wouldn't have been had

1127
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,040
Speaker 1: they not lifted that and we had not organized and

1128
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:33,440
Speaker 1: fought like we did, we would be down more so

1129
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 1: than we were at half at the time that thing

1130
01:06:36,240 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 1: would happen. And I just say this, and there's a

1131
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 1: lot talked about the exotics industry and especially in Texas,

1132
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 1: but that way that was handled for conservation purposes, you know,

1133
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 1: was not a good thing. And when it was, when

1134
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 1: it was rescinded, was it rescinded with a man? You

1135
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 1: were right? That was the horrible idea. I can answer that.

1136
01:06:58,320 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 1: I can. I don't even need to think of that.

1137
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,720
Speaker 1: It was it was rescinded because of political cloud and pressure,

1138
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:07,640
Speaker 1: and that's the honest truth, or we'd still be right

1139
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 1: where we were Texas spent thousands and thousands of dollars

1140
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 1: lobbying in Washington. It's funny because just in my circle

1141
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 1: I have heard and people not from the conservation biology world,

1142
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 1: I have heard people still grumbling about that. Well as

1143
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 1: in their mind like just like you know, oh, you

1144
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 1: want to talk about idiocy because everyone and they and

1145
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 1: they opened a book and there in the book says

1146
01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 1: there almost are close to being extinct in another country,

1147
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 1: and these people in Texas are shooting them and commercializing them.

1148
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 1: What in the world is going on here? Well, what's

1149
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:51,600
Speaker 1: going on here is we're perpetuating these animals because they

1150
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 1: have a value. No, I can see, like, it's not

1151
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 1: it's not a stretch. I don't mean to run around,

1152
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to sound like, oh, they're

1153
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 1: so stupid. I mean, you can see how someone would

1154
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,600
Speaker 1: draw that conclusion if they weren't really if they weren't

1155
01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 1: like acutely aware of like all the dynamics in place

1156
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 1: and the motivations of people involved. If you went and

1157
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 1: wrote like some goofy you know, newspaper headline Texans killing

1158
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:21,840
Speaker 1: endangered species, right, A lot of articles written like that.

1159
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: Some of us did interviews on those and they were

1160
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 1: tough interviews. Um, there there's some folks out there who

1161
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:31,680
Speaker 1: at that time and still today would rather these species

1162
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 1: not be here at all, that any of them are hunted. No,

1163
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 1: that's a yeah, I think that's a that's a that's

1164
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: a sentiment. Um. I think it's a widely held sentiment

1165
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:45,439
Speaker 1: among people who would that. I would be like the

1166
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:50,680
Speaker 1: radical animal rights agenda would put a very strong emphasis

1167
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:56,160
Speaker 1: emphasis on individual animal experiences and that that would actually

1168
01:08:56,240 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 1: matter more to them than population level. Because that's just

1169
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:04,400
Speaker 1: I can't have the argument, you know what I mean,

1170
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 1: It's like I would I would be hard for me

1171
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:08,080
Speaker 1: to sit with someone and have the argument. I wouldn't

1172
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:12,240
Speaker 1: even know where to begin. It's um, it all happened

1173
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:17,920
Speaker 1: when people I didn't know what luck nuts where anymore.

1174
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:27,720
Speaker 1: M that's test. It's a good one. I heard someone

1175
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: else bring up recently, like how did it go to

1176
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:32,680
Speaker 1: it just all of a sudden, No one knows how

1177
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:36,080
Speaker 1: to change a tiger. Well we're close. I'm usually luck

1178
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 1: Nutch but but but really, um, as time goes on,

1179
01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: that these challenges, these bicycles will have multiple riders on

1180
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: them that we that we have to defend um, to

1181
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:51,160
Speaker 1: perpetuate an animal, to to to make it UH, to

1182
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:54,760
Speaker 1: be beneficial again, to have a value, because they're just

1183
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:58,679
Speaker 1: people that don't know what luck nuts are. And when

1184
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 1: you have that, it's a In my world, I deal

1185
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:05,919
Speaker 1: with it every other day and I have to educate

1186
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,600
Speaker 1: as hard as I can. But I also have to

1187
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:12,440
Speaker 1: be a good mediator and understand how people think UM.

1188
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:16,559
Speaker 1: And that's why I'm so sensitive about UM. The merit

1189
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:22,400
Speaker 1: of every good story and every good scenario is to

1190
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 1: preside proceed both sides of the issue you have do

1191
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 1: You can't hold it back, and it's tough sometimes to

1192
01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: sit in a room and talk to people about why

1193
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:36,679
Speaker 1: this animal's doing good. We got to start with the nest.

1194
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,799
Speaker 1: There's also a lot of crossover too because of you know, obviously,

1195
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: as you well know, hunting brings in a lot of

1196
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:47,759
Speaker 1: conservation dollars. Right to go to that, but particularly here

1197
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:50,599
Speaker 1: with with the whole land rush UM, and he deals

1198
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,719
Speaker 1: with it very closely that you know, if you didn't

1199
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:57,440
Speaker 1: have this, you would have even more fragmentation and development

1200
01:10:57,479 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 1: and what have you. So you know, we try and

1201
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 1: incur ch people in bamburgers. The best example of it

1202
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 1: of you know, you can have an exotic species, but

1203
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:10,719
Speaker 1: you can manage it sustainably and still you know, create

1204
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 1: great habitat for native wildlife as well. Yeah. Now not

1205
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:18,400
Speaker 1: everybody can do what they've done here because it's fantastic,

1206
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:20,920
Speaker 1: but you know you can still do that, and you

1207
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 1: know Warren is a specialist in that, and so that's

1208
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:25,799
Speaker 1: that's the other message that we're trying to get across.

1209
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: What percent of the species that your organization is involved

1210
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:33,960
Speaker 1: with our native North American animals and what present are

1211
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:40,479
Speaker 1: Africa Asia? Um, most of them are Africa Asia, but

1212
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:44,639
Speaker 1: we have a couple of grassland bird species, so uh,

1213
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 1: the loggerhead shrike which you know, Texas sill has quite

1214
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 1: a few of them, but their native grassland prairie habitat

1215
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:54,320
Speaker 1: as you you know well now is shrinking and they've

1216
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 1: largely disappeared, you know, up in all the way up

1217
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:01,640
Speaker 1: into Canada. So um, you know, we support that and

1218
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 1: doing some releases up there or they do genetics testing

1219
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 1: to try to you know, help the viability. A couple

1220
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 1: other grasslands species, um, even like the whooping crane. The

1221
01:12:12,280 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 1: red wolf um is another one, and then most of

1222
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:18,560
Speaker 1: the rest of them are anxietic. So probably as a percentage.

1223
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:21,400
Speaker 1: I don't know exact number, but you know it's probably

1224
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 1: in native is probably you know or something they're they're

1225
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:30,599
Speaker 1: about to what to what degree if you compare let's

1226
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:36,400
Speaker 1: say you're gonna compare the Sahara. Um, and just I

1227
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:42,120
Speaker 1: know it's hard, but the U s in general. Um,

1228
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:43,639
Speaker 1: if you look at something like like it takes something

1229
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:47,519
Speaker 1: like the Pacific salmon for instance. Um, it's not an

1230
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 1: animal problem. It's a habitat problem. Right. It's like if

1231
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:56,440
Speaker 1: if you took all the dams out of the Columbia Watershed,

1232
01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 1: your problems right, um in in in Chad and the

1233
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:08,080
Speaker 1: Sahara with the simitar horned orcs. I gather that it

1234
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 1: was it became like an animal problem. It's multifaceted, if

1235
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 1: I understand you correctly. So it's um, it's a bush

1236
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 1: meat problem. UM. A lot of these areas you know

1237
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,960
Speaker 1: historically or you know at least last hundred years, war

1238
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 1: zone problem. It's a human footprint expanding problem. UM, a

1239
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:33,240
Speaker 1: disease problem as well, you know, again having to cohabitate

1240
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:36,920
Speaker 1: with domestic livestock. And then when you get down another

1241
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:38,880
Speaker 1: aspect of what we do is that when we're looking

1242
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 1: at something like this, we enlist the help of UM.

1243
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: There's an offshoot of a U see in called cps

1244
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:49,160
Speaker 1: G and UH they do great work like population modeling

1245
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:51,880
Speaker 1: and you know, figuring out you know, you have this

1246
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:55,320
Speaker 1: many animals and you know you're gonna add this MANI

1247
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:58,200
Speaker 1: to it. And here's how often drought happens, here's how

1248
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 1: much poaching. You know, you can kind of pretty well

1249
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 1: predict what's gonna happen. UM, And when you get down

1250
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:07,960
Speaker 1: below a certain number, you know, it becomes unsustainable. So

1251
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:10,640
Speaker 1: you know they're species out there right now. You were

1252
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:13,080
Speaker 1: alluding to it earlier that if it's just left to

1253
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 1: their own over time, they're probably not gonna make it,

1254
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: you know. And fragmentation is another huge issue, right you know,

1255
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:24,120
Speaker 1: corridors are cut off, you know, so you don't get

1256
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 1: not only genetics crossing, but just being able to connect

1257
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 1: populations have more room for them to disperse, you know,

1258
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 1: drought over here versus you know, it's better range over here.

1259
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 1: So all those problems factor into it. I thought of

1260
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 1: another more extreme, uh visual way of putting it. Let's

1261
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 1: say you just started flying sea one thirties into Chad

1262
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 1: and offloading thousands of scimitar horned orcs at this moment

1263
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:53,160
Speaker 1: in time, you would find that, like in some number

1264
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:54,760
Speaker 1: of years, you're probably gonna be right back in the

1265
01:14:54,800 --> 01:15:00,240
Speaker 1: same situation. A lot of the habits prepped. Yeah, because

1266
01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:04,320
Speaker 1: it's localized. It's local age where they can not at

1267
01:15:04,360 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 1: the they can't make it somewhere else, but they the

1268
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:10,439
Speaker 1: extruding factors on it will only let it make it

1269
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:13,720
Speaker 1: in that particular area or where they have that protection.

1270
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 1: A lot of it's been converted to agriculture. That's another

1271
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:20,720
Speaker 1: crash lands. And how many do they have? So how

1272
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 1: many do they have on the ground now? And it's

1273
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:28,600
Speaker 1: sort of like semi wildish state simitars ch about a

1274
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:32,439
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty And what size like on what is

1275
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 1: it of size of ground comparable to where we're sitting

1276
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 1: right now. No, it's much larger. It's a huge area.

1277
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:40,640
Speaker 1: I don't have the exact number, but it's it is.

1278
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 1: It's a big area. And Steve do you know And

1279
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 1: it's like I thought I heard it was the same

1280
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 1: size as like West Virginia. Yeah, it's like hundreds of

1281
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:49,559
Speaker 1: thousands of millions of acres and they and they need

1282
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 1: to they're actively they need to be actively defending the

1283
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 1: animals from poaching. And I don't know about defending, but

1284
01:15:58,120 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, there's been a lot of education that's going

1285
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,839
Speaker 1: on about it, and you know they monitor it closely.

1286
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:05,840
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, they're collared right UM, and the

1287
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,320
Speaker 1: animals will disperse a lot. I think the biggest thing,

1288
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:10,720
Speaker 1: or one of the biggest things they've done is just

1289
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:15,240
Speaker 1: education with UM, the herders, the shepherders, you know, and

1290
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:18,760
Speaker 1: I think so far that's going pretty well. Uh but again,

1291
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 1: we're only talking a hundred fifty animals, so it's hard

1292
01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 1: to gauge. You know, it's not like there's fifteen thousand now.

1293
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:28,400
Speaker 1: Is that number growing? It is? Yeah, They've they've had

1294
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:32,840
Speaker 1: they've had offspring, and they keep actually uh there, I

1295
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 1: think doing another release right now as we speak. So yeah,

1296
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:38,200
Speaker 1: there's definitely plans to add on too. And I don't

1297
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:41,320
Speaker 1: know if there's a total number UM that they're trying

1298
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:44,280
Speaker 1: to get to UM, but yeah, they definitely want to grow.

1299
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:46,759
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously a hundred fifty of a herd animals

1300
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:49,560
Speaker 1: not you know, sufficient to you know, you need to

1301
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:54,200
Speaker 1: grow that ye that Yeah, it's still ever changing. But

1302
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:56,599
Speaker 1: but the only way probably to get it to where

1303
01:16:56,640 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 1: they someday will say we have a stable population is help.

1304
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:03,360
Speaker 1: Uh that they won't do it on their own. Probably

1305
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 1: if they, it would be so eons out um that

1306
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:09,680
Speaker 1: that it just you couldn't monitor it. So the the

1307
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 1: influx that that that groups like this can help is

1308
01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:15,559
Speaker 1: what's gonna make it. Somedays, say we have a in

1309
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:18,519
Speaker 1: this area, we have a standardized herd, I mean just

1310
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:20,720
Speaker 1: off tope of my head. Again, I'm not a population

1311
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:24,519
Speaker 1: biologist disclaimers, so but you know, I would think you'd

1312
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:26,920
Speaker 1: have to have at least several hundred animals ultimately not

1313
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:29,800
Speaker 1: several thousand. But whatever that number is, unless it's into

1314
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,719
Speaker 1: the thousands, you're gonna need to supplement from time to time.

1315
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:37,559
Speaker 1: What what is the stable number? Like, do we have

1316
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:41,360
Speaker 1: an idea what that that herd stability sizes self Sustama

1317
01:17:41,439 --> 01:17:43,680
Speaker 1: Because that country is so different, it's it's hard to

1318
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 1: classify it animals per acre um, And I don't I

1319
01:17:47,600 --> 01:17:51,479
Speaker 1: don't know the dynamics to that number, but I would

1320
01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:54,840
Speaker 1: say that they're they're they're people over there know what

1321
01:17:55,000 --> 01:17:56,840
Speaker 1: they're what they need to do to where they could

1322
01:17:56,880 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 1: finally say we do have a stable herd, they move

1323
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:03,559
Speaker 1: a lot their their micah, they're they're they're the larger

1324
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 1: the herd, the larger the range needs to be their

1325
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:10,599
Speaker 1: nomadic and it's more it's more sparse than you know,

1326
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:19,280
Speaker 1: Steve has this fantastic grass here and it'll rain in

1327
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 1: one area of this of this area where they've got them,

1328
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:24,920
Speaker 1: and they'll move to that area because a lot of

1329
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 1: their all their ecologies is steered around perpetuation, so they

1330
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:32,320
Speaker 1: know to go to that area. Uh, and it's timed

1331
01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:34,719
Speaker 1: with all their parturations and all the things they do,

1332
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:40,200
Speaker 1: and so it will take time, um years before they'll

1333
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:42,760
Speaker 1: ever be able to say that's a standardized herd. And

1334
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:45,120
Speaker 1: we're comfortable. I mean, this is ideal for him here

1335
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:47,640
Speaker 1: in terms of what we're trying to do. And you know,

1336
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:49,920
Speaker 1: these guys have done such a great job and you

1337
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:53,880
Speaker 1: know burns and you know not you know, they don't

1338
01:18:54,040 --> 01:18:56,760
Speaker 1: graze the rest of it and they're not and had

1339
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:58,720
Speaker 1: a history of overgrazing all those kind of things. So

1340
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 1: it's ideal habitat you know. Yeah, I mean driving through here,

1341
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:06,799
Speaker 1: this country probably never looked like this prior to folks

1342
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 1: putting up fences, right. I mean, you guys don't have

1343
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 1: a natural competition out here because you're you're managing it.

1344
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:19,640
Speaker 1: You're seeing fifty years of intensive management. Yeah, maybe this

1345
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:22,080
Speaker 1: is how it looks like two hundred years ago, as

1346
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:24,880
Speaker 1: long as the bison weren't traveling through. He's being pretty

1347
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:27,600
Speaker 1: humble because I do what he does. He's worked his

1348
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:32,759
Speaker 1: rear end off and and he's got he's got the backing,

1349
01:19:33,080 --> 01:19:35,160
Speaker 1: and he's got the knowledge. And that's why you see

1350
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:38,600
Speaker 1: the garden growing like it is, and it's a and

1351
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:40,439
Speaker 1: you know, to the neck and eye. It's hard to

1352
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:42,559
Speaker 1: understand what he sees and what I see on these

1353
01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:46,439
Speaker 1: properties because this is years and years of our lives

1354
01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 1: to get these grass communities back to where they're at.

1355
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:52,480
Speaker 1: It just doesn't happen. I mean, this land has transformed

1356
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:55,920
Speaker 1: so much. I grew up around here, and it's you know, uh,

1357
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,799
Speaker 1: Native Americans kept this burned off to a large degree

1358
01:19:59,160 --> 01:20:02,760
Speaker 1: with natural fire. Uh. But you know, I'm sure you've

1359
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:06,719
Speaker 1: been around here. Now. It's changed tremendously. That juniper choked,

1360
01:20:07,400 --> 01:20:11,000
Speaker 1: you know, and so he's done restored it. Whatever you

1361
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:13,559
Speaker 1: want to call natural. If you want to call that natural,

1362
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:16,920
Speaker 1: you know, you see, but certainly from a wildlife perspective,

1363
01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:21,280
Speaker 1: it's see what'd your bird count go from? Uh? The

1364
01:20:21,320 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 1: first the first counts done in like nineteen seventy nine,

1365
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:28,960
Speaker 1: seventy one. UM, they found forty eight species. These are

1366
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:32,439
Speaker 1: year round surveys and today we're over two and twenty.

1367
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 1: Really God, that's incredible man. So well, if you had

1368
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:39,839
Speaker 1: to boil that down, that's like is it? It's water,

1369
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:44,719
Speaker 1: water and grass, diversity of habitat. So when Mr mambur

1370
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:48,320
Speaker 1: way more than just more grass. Absolutely. When Mr Member

1371
01:20:48,360 --> 01:20:51,479
Speaker 1: first bought this property, it was in nineteen six or nine,

1372
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:54,880
Speaker 1: it was basically a cedar a cedar forest, a cedar break.

1373
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:57,920
Speaker 1: It was very much clad with cedar like you see

1374
01:20:57,920 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 1: a lot of the hill country today from fire suppress

1375
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:06,200
Speaker 1: and sproach it seed down, overgrazing. Overgrazing led to that

1376
01:21:06,439 --> 01:21:10,679
Speaker 1: a lot um. So yeah, in early seventies is said

1377
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:13,559
Speaker 1: about restoring the place, and that basically removing a lot

1378
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:15,280
Speaker 1: of the juniper, not all of it, because this is

1379
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 1: a native tree. UM. Restoring the grasslands also given our

1380
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:25,840
Speaker 1: native deciduous hardwoods a chance to become a hardwood forest again. Um.

1381
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:29,000
Speaker 1: And then with that came back water was one of

1382
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:30,439
Speaker 1: the first things that came back to the ranch that

1383
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:34,200
Speaker 1: wasn't here. Um, we have quite a bit of water here. Um.

1384
01:21:34,439 --> 01:21:38,080
Speaker 1: And then with you get that's such a diversitive habitat,

1385
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:41,160
Speaker 1: and especially that edge habitat, you know, that transition between

1386
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:45,160
Speaker 1: forest of grass or water's edge, that sort of thing.

1387
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:48,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I imagine some of that, some of those numbers.

1388
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:51,120
Speaker 1: I mean, it wouldn't account for significant number, but some

1389
01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:54,720
Speaker 1: of those are sort of things on a more national scale. Absolutely,

1390
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 1: like like some raptors right, actually got a paragraph in

1391
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 1: your thing, but it could be because of a green

1392
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:06,920
Speaker 1: activities happening hundreds of months, an impressive increase and improved habitat,

1393
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 1: as Steve said, uh brings uh diversity of wildlife. So

1394
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 1: a lot of these ranches now that that have the

1395
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:18,519
Speaker 1: finances and the skills to do all this, they're not

1396
01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:25,800
Speaker 1: only benefiting exotics, um dear there, it's it's all species, mammals, reptiles,

1397
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:30,200
Speaker 1: bird life, avian life. All this is is benefiting for

1398
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:37,240
Speaker 1: people batcav Yeah, we're not talking. And that's what happens

1399
01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:41,000
Speaker 1: when you get a commitment because we've done it and

1400
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 1: restored it. Uh. Not I'm not talking about here. I've

1401
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:46,360
Speaker 1: done it on other ranches like Steve's done, but we

1402
01:22:46,520 --> 01:22:49,519
Speaker 1: see the benefits. And this bird life is a classic

1403
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:53,880
Speaker 1: example of responding to improved habitat that doesn't happen by

1404
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:57,920
Speaker 1: accident because now they have these levels, they can live in,

1405
01:22:58,520 --> 01:23:02,479
Speaker 1: edge effect, hardwood for arrest, all the things that they've

1406
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:05,040
Speaker 1: done out here. So yeah, I mean Bamburger is like

1407
01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:07,760
Speaker 1: a modern day example. And if you've ever seen Tending

1408
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:11,559
Speaker 1: the wild looking California about Native Americans managed the landscape

1409
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:14,599
Speaker 1: over there, this is an example of that. I mean literally,

1410
01:23:15,120 --> 01:23:18,320
Speaker 1: I saw a study recently where, um, I don't know

1411
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:22,400
Speaker 1: how they came to this conclusion, but researcher figured out that, um,

1412
01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:26,519
Speaker 1: this part of the world anyway, of the fires were

1413
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:30,640
Speaker 1: set here by Native Americans. Now it only burned the

1414
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:35,680
Speaker 1: landscape because you know, lightning fires would just go right.

1415
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:38,600
Speaker 1: So they had controlled burns and they were managing it

1416
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:42,639
Speaker 1: for wildlife, you know, to bring back you know whatever,

1417
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 1: you know, the Coron's walnuts, yeah, track wildlife whatever. And

1418
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:48,720
Speaker 1: so he's actually kind of gone back, even though this

1419
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:51,400
Speaker 1: is a modern he's gone back to much more the

1420
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:54,800
Speaker 1: way it was in terms of managing the land for wildlife.

1421
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:58,640
Speaker 1: Got it? Uh, I got two more big questions for you.

1422
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:05,360
Speaker 1: Once once pretty concrete, once theoretical. Uh. The the scimitar

1423
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:10,760
Speaker 1: horned orcs. Uh. They came full circle. Okay, they were

1424
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:17,680
Speaker 1: in the Sahara. They were for whatever reason, lost to

1425
01:24:18,680 --> 01:24:22,960
Speaker 1: you know, lost to us uh collectors, whatever brought him here.

1426
01:24:23,320 --> 01:24:26,160
Speaker 1: They were captain Zoo's they went extinct in the wild.

1427
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:31,160
Speaker 1: They went back. Um, what's the next Like, who who's

1428
01:24:31,200 --> 01:24:34,720
Speaker 1: in line to have that happened again? Most immediately? Like

1429
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:37,479
Speaker 1: what like what species is that that you're working on?

1430
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:41,439
Speaker 1: Is like you have the clearest path exists to being

1431
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:44,479
Speaker 1: like they're gonna go back on the ground. Well, the

1432
01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:48,680
Speaker 1: two other ones that um of our species that are

1433
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:51,160
Speaker 1: being worked with right now actually in the same preserve

1434
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:56,160
Speaker 1: are the Domina gazelle um and the attics. And there

1435
01:24:56,240 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 1: were some remnant populations there somewhere between a hundred and

1436
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 1: three hundred animals but scattered about this. This is in

1437
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 1: the same area Chad, yeah, and Niger. They so they

1438
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:12,240
Speaker 1: were they've translocated some. But yeah, they're they're releasing I

1439
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:17,400
Speaker 1: think right now actually some Doma gazelle. They it's already

1440
01:25:17,439 --> 01:25:20,799
Speaker 1: happened and it's well, it's again, it's this multi step process,

1441
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:24,080
Speaker 1: right where maybe some of them came here historically and

1442
01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:26,559
Speaker 1: then they went over there, announced two or three generations.

1443
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:29,840
Speaker 1: There in the third generation got habituated, you know, and

1444
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:32,200
Speaker 1: then they let him go, right yeah, Like you can't,

1445
01:25:32,240 --> 01:25:36,000
Speaker 1: like it's not really practical to track the individual exactly.

1446
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:39,560
Speaker 1: It's it's bloodline or exactly. And that that's why the

1447
01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:42,120
Speaker 1: genomics is so important and why we want to keep

1448
01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:46,000
Speaker 1: sequencing and testing these these animals, because we want to

1449
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:49,120
Speaker 1: know if we have valuable traits or whatever. Like Steve,

1450
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:52,120
Speaker 1: you know, got his report on his his female scimitar

1451
01:25:52,840 --> 01:25:56,679
Speaker 1: that hey, in the future, you know, that bloodline maybe

1452
01:25:56,720 --> 01:25:59,320
Speaker 1: not that particular animal, but that bloodline we want going

1453
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:03,400
Speaker 1: over there, right um. And and so that that's kind

1454
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:06,599
Speaker 1: of the future, so that when the conditions are ripe

1455
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:10,800
Speaker 1: to do more of these were ready to do it. Um.

1456
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:15,920
Speaker 1: Remember early on in our conversation we talked about the

1457
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 1: idea that if it's not where, if an animal is

1458
01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:23,840
Speaker 1: not where it's from, like it doesn't count. Now, well, well, no,

1459
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:25,920
Speaker 1: I don't mean that, because that's gonna sound wrong, because

1460
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:29,560
Speaker 1: I am a very avid wild turkey hunter. Okay, I

1461
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:31,680
Speaker 1: hunt wild turkeys in the state that turkeys aren't from.

1462
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:36,479
Speaker 1: I mean, they're not that far down. I could drive

1463
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:38,639
Speaker 1: in a day, I could drive in a data where

1464
01:26:38,640 --> 01:26:40,519
Speaker 1: they're from, but they're not from there. Okay, So I

1465
01:26:40,880 --> 01:26:45,400
Speaker 1: love them like my children. Um so I got you know, well,

1466
01:26:45,479 --> 01:26:53,200
Speaker 1: not quiet in some ways more yess, some ways less,

1467
01:26:53,320 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 1: but so so I get it. It's like, there's not

1468
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:58,479
Speaker 1: like it's not a black and white issue in terms

1469
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:02,000
Speaker 1: of native you know, native animals and non native animals.

1470
01:27:02,439 --> 01:27:06,599
Speaker 1: But what's your sort of like, like, what's your take

1471
01:27:06,640 --> 01:27:09,560
Speaker 1: if if we looked at that, that you determine that

1472
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:13,439
Speaker 1: for whatever reason we determine the Sahara Okay, since we

1473
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:15,080
Speaker 1: talked about that a bunch. It's just like you get

1474
01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:17,840
Speaker 1: to a point where like, it's not gonna happen. It's

1475
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:22,960
Speaker 1: not gonna happen. It's divided up, it's war torn, not

1476
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:26,560
Speaker 1: getting any better. It just is gonna happen. Do you

1477
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:31,080
Speaker 1: then lose interest in the orcs or do you go, like, okay,

1478
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:35,680
Speaker 1: plan B is this part of Texas is Africa and

1479
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:39,000
Speaker 1: there's no and you know that it's not ever going

1480
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 1: to be a reintroduction issue. Well, I guess there's two things.

1481
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 1: That's a loaded question, Um it is. Yeah, I mean one,

1482
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:51,639
Speaker 1: I think you know, there's a difference between like I say,

1483
01:27:51,720 --> 01:27:54,439
Speaker 1: this part of Texas or letting them run rampant and

1484
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:58,479
Speaker 1: just keeping the species alive, not let them go extinct.

1485
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:01,800
Speaker 1: For and you could have a still philosophical debate about that.

1486
01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 1: A lot of reasons, right, you know, they deserve to live,

1487
01:28:05,240 --> 01:28:08,639
Speaker 1: you know, value in them, about what we discover about

1488
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:10,280
Speaker 1: their genes, or you know, it could be use of

1489
01:28:10,320 --> 01:28:15,000
Speaker 1: other animals, you know, all kinds of right, yeah. Yeah,

1490
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:20,760
Speaker 1: But then also you know, in terms of these assurance populations, well,

1491
01:28:21,240 --> 01:28:23,439
Speaker 1: what do things look like a hundred fifty years from now?

1492
01:28:24,400 --> 01:28:26,479
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I can see what you're saying.

1493
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:29,120
Speaker 1: It'd be a pretty cocky decision. Yeah, ain't gonna happen. Right,

1494
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:31,479
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like, if we're gonna keep them,

1495
01:28:32,280 --> 01:28:35,000
Speaker 1: then we might as well keep them in a setting

1496
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:38,719
Speaker 1: where they can do well, right, and in sufficient numbers,

1497
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:43,600
Speaker 1: with enough diversity. So when there's an opportunity, you know,

1498
01:28:44,240 --> 01:28:47,840
Speaker 1: we can We're ready, you know, we can put them

1499
01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:49,680
Speaker 1: back up. And I say we, I mean collective, not

1500
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:53,760
Speaker 1: just my organization. Right, So that that's one of the things.

1501
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:57,360
Speaker 1: And you know there's also I think an educational component. Um,

1502
01:28:57,680 --> 01:28:59,960
Speaker 1: there's even these guys have done it. We've actually partnered

1503
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:02,559
Speaker 1: I know it sounds bizarre, but uh, with a virtual

1504
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:05,760
Speaker 1: reality organization to kind of create some environments where people

1505
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:08,479
Speaker 1: can see what these animals look like, you know, in

1506
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:13,960
Speaker 1: their native habitats or I hear you. Hey, that was

1507
01:29:14,040 --> 01:29:16,040
Speaker 1: my initial reaction. I got kids want to do it.

1508
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:23,160
Speaker 1: You can do that. But from the standpoint of does

1509
01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:26,320
Speaker 1: that raise awareness and does that get them interested and

1510
01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:28,439
Speaker 1: you know, generate some moment. I mean, as we know,

1511
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:31,799
Speaker 1: we're becoming a more urban world and people moving cities.

1512
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:34,160
Speaker 1: And I'm a big believer that if if you don't

1513
01:29:34,160 --> 01:29:35,840
Speaker 1: have your feet on the ground, if you're not out

1514
01:29:35,880 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 1: doing stuff, then you just don't have the same attachment

1515
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:42,720
Speaker 1: or connection to it. So in lieu of that, do

1516
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:45,120
Speaker 1: these do something like that help And if it does,

1517
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:49,120
Speaker 1: then maybe there are opportunities in the future. So I

1518
01:29:49,200 --> 01:29:50,960
Speaker 1: think those are some of the arguments. I know, it's

1519
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:54,080
Speaker 1: not black and white, um, And you know it is

1520
01:29:54,080 --> 01:29:57,000
Speaker 1: a little odds. Sometimes you drive around you see something

1521
01:29:57,040 --> 01:29:58,800
Speaker 1: looks like Africa, and you know, you see more and

1522
01:29:58,920 --> 01:30:01,560
Speaker 1: more of it, but you know we're focused really on

1523
01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:03,880
Speaker 1: the conservation aspect, and I think you can make a

1524
01:30:03,960 --> 01:30:06,800
Speaker 1: strong case for, regardless of what's happening on the ground,

1525
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:10,000
Speaker 1: that we at least want to keep these remnant populations,

1526
01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 1: you know, going for the future, whatever the future is. Someday,

1527
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:18,040
Speaker 1: it just hit me, someday I'm gonna write a dystopian novel.

1528
01:30:19,200 --> 01:30:21,800
Speaker 1: It will be that humans are all gone, virtually all gone,

1529
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:24,960
Speaker 1: and it'll be like some small group of people trying

1530
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 1: to put all the animals back where they belong. Well,

1531
01:30:27,160 --> 01:30:29,760
Speaker 1: I think Jeff Visa has had that idea. One day

1532
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:33,479
Speaker 1: we'll be living, orbiting the planet and repopulation and I'll

1533
01:30:33,479 --> 01:30:36,120
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, before I die, I gotta make sure

1534
01:30:36,160 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 1: to put these things back and sudden, so I'll we're

1535
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:41,920
Speaker 1: coming around the table, so I'll put my two cents in.

1536
01:30:42,040 --> 01:30:45,960
Speaker 1: It'll be sharp. I think the limiting factors besides population

1537
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:51,040
Speaker 1: dynamics will probably be evolving wildlife diseesus. Oh go on,

1538
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:53,360
Speaker 1: I knew you were gonna ask me that, and I

1539
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:55,519
Speaker 1: and that's my summary. We gotta do another show, now,

1540
01:30:55,520 --> 01:30:58,160
Speaker 1: are you gonna get it out of it? Well? No,

1541
01:30:58,320 --> 01:31:00,560
Speaker 1: give me give a little more there. Well, so I

1542
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:04,120
Speaker 1: I think it's like a like a like a conservation challenge.

1543
01:31:04,240 --> 01:31:09,240
Speaker 1: I think that absolutely. But but zoo gnosis. If you

1544
01:31:09,360 --> 01:31:14,200
Speaker 1: look at what we don't know about wildlife reservoirs and

1545
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:18,519
Speaker 1: human interaction with diseases, we're on the pioneering edge where

1546
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:21,160
Speaker 1: all these lay. And I think as time goes by,

1547
01:31:21,240 --> 01:31:25,960
Speaker 1: we're going to find more and more reservoirs that might

1548
01:31:26,160 --> 01:31:30,000
Speaker 1: mutate and affect humans are vi subversa, and so I

1549
01:31:30,160 --> 01:31:34,200
Speaker 1: believe that that as time goes by, the science will

1550
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:37,000
Speaker 1: develop that there might be a species you can't do

1551
01:31:37,160 --> 01:31:42,400
Speaker 1: anything with because of evolving wildlife diseases that may affect populations.

1552
01:31:42,479 --> 01:31:45,320
Speaker 1: And guess what if it affects a human, who's going

1553
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:49,360
Speaker 1: to be first? I mean, this gets into strange territory.

1554
01:31:49,479 --> 01:31:51,639
Speaker 1: But what if there's a few species that are resistant?

1555
01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:56,439
Speaker 1: It doesn't? Yeah, it does exactly what was it? What

1556
01:31:56,520 --> 01:32:00,760
Speaker 1: was the question? Well, I mean back to your the questions.

1557
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:04,080
Speaker 1: I what if you find, you know, some traits and

1558
01:32:04,160 --> 01:32:06,560
Speaker 1: a few of these species are closely related one or

1559
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:10,519
Speaker 1: two that are beneficial and disease resistant. You know, could

1560
01:32:10,560 --> 01:32:13,240
Speaker 1: that keeping those alive? Could that be useful? I mean

1561
01:32:13,320 --> 01:32:17,040
Speaker 1: that gets into strange territory and it can. It can.

1562
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:20,640
Speaker 1: But where the bridge starts getting weak is where is

1563
01:32:20,720 --> 01:32:25,320
Speaker 1: where they're the possibility exists to jump from wildlife reservoirs

1564
01:32:25,360 --> 01:32:28,960
Speaker 1: to humans, and typically that's from a mutation. And so

1565
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:32,160
Speaker 1: if you really look at a lot of things that

1566
01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:35,840
Speaker 1: are happening with humans now, with the illnesses and things,

1567
01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:38,840
Speaker 1: and look back at wildlife reservoirs, you don't have to

1568
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:40,840
Speaker 1: be a rocket side just to figure out what's happening.

1569
01:32:41,160 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 1: It's coming. Yeah, I think that that's that's entering sort

1570
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:46,720
Speaker 1: of the public consciousness more as we have this like

1571
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:51,320
Speaker 1: pretty spirited debate about you know, bats while the markets,

1572
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:55,160
Speaker 1: and then these new strains of of COVID that seemed

1573
01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:57,640
Speaker 1: to and then you know, like this six of the

1574
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:01,400
Speaker 1: white tails of the white tailed the year taking out

1575
01:33:01,479 --> 01:33:05,360
Speaker 1: to think Indiana um I had been exposed to COVID

1576
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:10,000
Speaker 1: back we just we just just have this right, like

1577
01:33:10,200 --> 01:33:14,320
Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen into the deer herd, that deer herd

1578
01:33:15,280 --> 01:33:18,880
Speaker 1: spit it back out into the human population, and it's

1579
01:33:19,120 --> 01:33:21,559
Speaker 1: very very close to COVID nineteen, but it's not quite

1580
01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:24,680
Speaker 1: the same, right. I mean that, and I don't care

1581
01:33:24,760 --> 01:33:27,160
Speaker 1: what you think of COVID, but that's something to pay

1582
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:30,200
Speaker 1: attention to. And when you sail across the sea. And

1583
01:33:30,280 --> 01:33:33,240
Speaker 1: I'm not being a pessimist because I'm a biologist just

1584
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 1: what I do for a living. But when you sail

1585
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:38,240
Speaker 1: across the seed to take a reservoir out to bring

1586
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:41,599
Speaker 1: it somewhere else to do something else with, there's always

1587
01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:44,600
Speaker 1: a chance. But but I but I think we're on

1588
01:33:44,720 --> 01:33:47,840
Speaker 1: the very infancy of of where this is gonna go.

1589
01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:51,320
Speaker 1: And also, just I want to add on the thing

1590
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:55,920
Speaker 1: you're saying, because you talk like there's organizations like the

1591
01:33:56,040 --> 01:34:00,640
Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain Olk Foundation. Okay, there their business for for

1592
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:04,639
Speaker 1: well that you know, I hate to oversimplify it. Their

1593
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:10,160
Speaker 1: business have been twofold. It was habitat right and then restoration.

1594
01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:14,960
Speaker 1: It hurts with c w D right now moving herds around.

1595
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:17,960
Speaker 1: That's not happening, man. I mean, like the appetite for

1596
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:20,280
Speaker 1: that stuff is it's just not happening. And it's like

1597
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:24,040
Speaker 1: it's because of this understanding of disease transmission that we

1598
01:34:24,120 --> 01:34:28,760
Speaker 1: weren't talking about. He's ground zero for that. Okay, yeah,

1599
01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:31,640
Speaker 1: so so I mean we could We'll be here at

1600
01:34:31,760 --> 01:34:34,880
Speaker 1: two o'clock in the morning. But but but I think

1601
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:38,040
Speaker 1: my message is it's not as easy as the wishes

1602
01:34:38,200 --> 01:34:40,880
Speaker 1: and the money to save an animal. Now there's more,

1603
01:34:41,160 --> 01:34:43,240
Speaker 1: there's more to look and see to the fish bowl,

1604
01:34:43,800 --> 01:34:47,080
Speaker 1: and I'll end mine. I'll pass it to Steve. Now. Well,

1605
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:50,559
Speaker 1: now as you said that, I would say, short of disease,

1606
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:54,439
Speaker 1: uh here here at the Bamburg Ranch, our philosophy is um,

1607
01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:57,120
Speaker 1: it's our responsibility as long as we can afford to

1608
01:34:57,160 --> 01:35:00,839
Speaker 1: do it. As long as that species is not detriment

1609
01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:04,920
Speaker 1: to our native species and our landscape, our land, we

1610
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:07,760
Speaker 1: should do it. So that's something that's something you look

1611
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:12,720
Speaker 1: at that you're like trumping, this is native wildlife, but right,

1612
01:35:12,760 --> 01:35:17,679
Speaker 1: novels things can be harmonious. How do you guys get funded?

1613
01:35:17,720 --> 01:35:20,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm assuming your funding doesn't come from the

1614
01:35:20,240 --> 01:35:26,599
Speaker 1: residents of Chad No, so our membership institutions UH fundus

1615
01:35:27,280 --> 01:35:31,120
Speaker 1: and primarily and then UM of course, and they're they're

1616
01:35:31,160 --> 01:35:35,280
Speaker 1: great and they really are good at supporting our work. UM.

1617
01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:38,639
Speaker 1: And then we get some small fees from other program

1618
01:35:38,760 --> 01:35:42,240
Speaker 1: members as well. And then of course you know individual donors,

1619
01:35:42,680 --> 01:35:49,599
Speaker 1: UM benefactors, so UM, you know, we it's obviously been

1620
01:35:49,640 --> 01:35:52,000
Speaker 1: tough the last couple of years. You know, the pandemic

1621
01:35:52,080 --> 01:35:55,519
Speaker 1: and would have you so fundraising? Yeah, you know, and

1622
01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:58,679
Speaker 1: and it's we need to do a lot more things

1623
01:35:58,760 --> 01:36:02,679
Speaker 1: like genomics testing, um, and so you know funding helps

1624
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:06,599
Speaker 1: for that. So if anybody wants to go to our

1625
01:36:06,680 --> 01:36:10,200
Speaker 1: website Conservation Centers dot org, we have a donated it's

1626
01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:13,600
Speaker 1: certainly appreciated. The one good thing is that, uh genomics

1627
01:36:13,640 --> 01:36:16,200
Speaker 1: testing has come way down in price. It's only gonna

1628
01:36:16,240 --> 01:36:19,640
Speaker 1: get cheaper. So um. But you know, conservation work is

1629
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:24,000
Speaker 1: Warren was saying earlier and uh testing to Steve Donne

1630
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:26,479
Speaker 1: has done all the work he's done, is that it's

1631
01:36:26,520 --> 01:36:30,759
Speaker 1: not cheap. You know, it takes a lot of effort,

1632
01:36:31,040 --> 01:36:33,280
Speaker 1: as a lot of science involved. It's not just turning

1633
01:36:33,320 --> 01:36:37,240
Speaker 1: the animals loose, you know, transport, you know, breeding the

1634
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:42,160
Speaker 1: whole nine yards. UM. So you know we're we need

1635
01:36:42,200 --> 01:36:46,280
Speaker 1: support just like every other conservation organization out there. Do

1636
01:36:46,320 --> 01:36:49,439
Speaker 1: you guys accept volunteers. I feel like you might get

1637
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:54,200
Speaker 1: some volunteer requests. Um, we get some. Um, it's more

1638
01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:58,120
Speaker 1: for things we need in office because we're science based. UM.

1639
01:36:58,360 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 1: You know, we really leverage it's our facilities and are

1640
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:05,679
Speaker 1: our ranches like Steve you know, they really do the work.

1641
01:37:06,160 --> 01:37:07,560
Speaker 1: You know, I feel like people are gonna be like

1642
01:37:07,640 --> 01:37:12,880
Speaker 1: a come out and raffle that works. Yeah, and that's

1643
01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:17,200
Speaker 1: that's also why for this model to work, this consortium model.

1644
01:37:17,240 --> 01:37:20,040
Speaker 1: I just mentioned one other thing that there's over five

1645
01:37:20,160 --> 01:37:24,800
Speaker 1: hundred species survival plans um in in the the A C. A.

1646
01:37:24,920 --> 01:37:27,920
Speaker 1: The zoo world. It's estimated in the next few years

1647
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:32,880
Speaker 1: for variety of reasons um both financial practicality, that half

1648
01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:36,160
Speaker 1: of those may go away. And so this model is

1649
01:37:36,200 --> 01:37:39,479
Speaker 1: consortium is going to be very important to picking those

1650
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:43,559
Speaker 1: species up and and they'd go away for what reason?

1651
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:49,040
Speaker 1: Funding issues, funding viability, you know, just hey, this isn't

1652
01:37:49,320 --> 01:37:51,519
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to say it's not working,

1653
01:37:51,720 --> 01:37:56,200
Speaker 1: but you know it may not be sustainable. Yeah, you know,

1654
01:37:56,280 --> 01:37:59,519
Speaker 1: habitat all kinds of things, right, and so so so

1655
01:38:00,080 --> 01:38:03,840
Speaker 1: there's like a plan. It's more than just a piece

1656
01:38:03,880 --> 01:38:07,200
Speaker 1: of paper. Yeah, I mean, it's it's en developed and

1657
01:38:07,240 --> 01:38:09,960
Speaker 1: this is all happening right now you know as we speak.

1658
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:13,040
Speaker 1: So we're looking at how can we leverage this existing

1659
01:38:13,120 --> 01:38:15,880
Speaker 1: model which has been very successful and you know, we

1660
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:18,880
Speaker 1: have a great end to end result case right here

1661
01:38:19,479 --> 01:38:22,200
Speaker 1: and do that with other species. But as these species

1662
01:38:22,840 --> 01:38:26,360
Speaker 1: become available so to speak. Um, you know, we we

1663
01:38:26,520 --> 01:38:30,639
Speaker 1: need uh support to you know, help get people involved.

1664
01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:33,920
Speaker 1: And and that ties back into the earlier discussion, which is,

1665
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:38,439
Speaker 1: you know, from a market standpoint, uh, bamburger is a

1666
01:38:38,479 --> 01:38:41,240
Speaker 1: little different. But you know, these other facilities, the private

1667
01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:44,080
Speaker 1: ones and even some of the public ones, they have

1668
01:38:44,160 --> 01:38:47,360
Speaker 1: to make a living, so to speak. You know, so, um,

1669
01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:49,919
Speaker 1: you know, they have to be able to move these animals,

1670
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, and make it work for them. And if

1671
01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:55,200
Speaker 1: they can't there, you know, it's not that they wouldn't

1672
01:38:55,200 --> 01:38:58,120
Speaker 1: have an interest in helping conservation, but it just won't

1673
01:38:58,160 --> 01:39:02,240
Speaker 1: work for them. I'm with you. What is the liability?

1674
01:39:02,680 --> 01:39:05,439
Speaker 1: He said liability earlier, Like when it's like, oh, I

1675
01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:07,920
Speaker 1: want to have some entire horned or X on my place.

1676
01:39:09,320 --> 01:39:12,040
Speaker 1: I'll give you a really good example. Please do. Because

1677
01:39:12,080 --> 01:39:14,840
Speaker 1: the only people that will enture my companies lords of London.

1678
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:21,320
Speaker 1: Oh oh my gosh, my my, My farms are from

1679
01:39:21,400 --> 01:39:23,439
Speaker 1: here to that canyon over there that I have to

1680
01:39:23,520 --> 01:39:27,280
Speaker 1: fell out. But um, like, well we go up in helicopters.

1681
01:39:27,640 --> 01:39:31,519
Speaker 1: So here's a good example of liability. You take what

1682
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:35,920
Speaker 1: he's willing to do today because his his whole approach

1683
01:39:36,040 --> 01:39:38,760
Speaker 1: is about education. And helping. Look at what they do

1684
01:39:38,880 --> 01:39:41,080
Speaker 1: out here to educate the public. We got in a

1685
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:44,120
Speaker 1: pickup truck. We had a lady that was sitting on

1686
01:39:44,200 --> 01:39:47,160
Speaker 1: the tailgate. We had a calf on the ground with

1687
01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:50,400
Speaker 1: a mother that's not bluffing. We had a driver of

1688
01:39:50,439 --> 01:39:54,000
Speaker 1: a pickup truck. So all those things come into play

1689
01:39:54,040 --> 01:39:56,719
Speaker 1: about liability. It was like two minutes into our trip,

1690
01:39:57,240 --> 01:40:02,840
Speaker 1: that's right, and so so the liability to include people

1691
01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:07,800
Speaker 1: in what we've done. It is absolute um almost impossible

1692
01:40:07,840 --> 01:40:10,080
Speaker 1: at times for a guy like me to include the

1693
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:13,639
Speaker 1: public and what I do because of the dangerous He's

1694
01:40:13,840 --> 01:40:18,200
Speaker 1: very organized, very but don't think he doesn't have uh risk.

1695
01:40:18,920 --> 01:40:22,760
Speaker 1: Sitting in that pickup truck's a risk and so uh

1696
01:40:23,080 --> 01:40:26,080
Speaker 1: if you if you turn a cemitar out just he's

1697
01:40:26,120 --> 01:40:29,280
Speaker 1: going to be on his own. What if somebody walked

1698
01:40:29,320 --> 01:40:33,200
Speaker 1: up on that calf? So this is all about this,

1699
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:36,800
Speaker 1: this just this just doesn't happen by accident. There's a

1700
01:40:36,880 --> 01:40:39,040
Speaker 1: lot of responsibility and a lot of things you have

1701
01:40:39,160 --> 01:40:41,040
Speaker 1: to do. You can see a liability because there's like

1702
01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:44,320
Speaker 1: a there's an actual like ownership path. I mean, if

1703
01:40:44,360 --> 01:40:50,599
Speaker 1: you get God, it's just the lands dear it belongs

1704
01:40:50,640 --> 01:40:53,160
Speaker 1: to the state, but be like no, yeah, and it's

1705
01:40:53,160 --> 01:40:58,160
Speaker 1: already happened. There's also the whole animal care ass man.

1706
01:40:58,240 --> 01:41:00,639
Speaker 1: We have all kinds of experts that we draw from,

1707
01:41:00,760 --> 01:41:04,520
Speaker 1: you know, veterinarian disease experts. I mean, these people are specialists.

1708
01:41:04,520 --> 01:41:07,240
Speaker 1: They've been doing this for you know, decades, right and

1709
01:41:07,439 --> 01:41:09,240
Speaker 1: you know someone like Steve that's been doing this for

1710
01:41:09,280 --> 01:41:13,360
Speaker 1: a long time. So it's not just anybody can show up, um,

1711
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:15,880
Speaker 1: you know and do this. And so we always have

1712
01:41:15,960 --> 01:41:18,120
Speaker 1: a vatting process that we go through. We have an

1713
01:41:18,160 --> 01:41:20,920
Speaker 1: ethics document when they want to join a program, and

1714
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:22,840
Speaker 1: you know, we we do a whole check on them

1715
01:41:22,920 --> 01:41:24,599
Speaker 1: to make sure they know what they're getting into, their

1716
01:41:24,640 --> 01:41:28,599
Speaker 1: capable they have experience, you know, and and every there's

1717
01:41:28,600 --> 01:41:31,280
Speaker 1: a lot that goes into it. Not just anybody can

1718
01:41:31,280 --> 01:41:36,000
Speaker 1: get in the black Rhino game exactly, that's exactly right, Yeah,

1719
01:41:36,840 --> 01:41:42,519
Speaker 1: for a number of reasons. Yeah, so uh help so

1720
01:41:42,600 --> 01:41:44,680
Speaker 1: people can come visit this. So tell people how to

1721
01:41:44,720 --> 01:41:47,840
Speaker 1: come visit this place. Oh the Bamburger Ranch. Uh we're

1722
01:41:47,880 --> 01:41:51,519
Speaker 1: not open to the public. Uh, it's all by reservation. Uh.

1723
01:41:51,720 --> 01:41:56,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, look on our website Bamburger Ranch dot org. Um,

1724
01:41:56,560 --> 01:41:59,160
Speaker 1: we do we do a multitude of things. We uh,

1725
01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:04,000
Speaker 1: we see a lot of kids, about kids a year. Now,

1726
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:07,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't sound like a lot, but um, you've met

1727
01:42:07,520 --> 01:42:09,080
Speaker 1: it sounds like a lot of time. Have zero That

1728
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:13,160
Speaker 1: sounds five hundred times more than how many you've met.

1729
01:42:13,600 --> 01:42:15,880
Speaker 1: You met a quarter of the staff. Uh, we we've

1730
01:42:15,880 --> 01:42:18,519
Speaker 1: when we got really four people here that deal with

1731
01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:23,840
Speaker 1: the people ranching or the eco tourism asspect. So yeah,

1732
01:42:23,920 --> 01:42:26,280
Speaker 1: they can visit the website and come out for a tour.

1733
01:42:26,640 --> 01:42:29,839
Speaker 1: We do also all for a whole series of workshops

1734
01:42:29,880 --> 01:42:33,320
Speaker 1: and landowner workshops, uh, to just give people new landowners

1735
01:42:33,360 --> 01:42:35,320
Speaker 1: in the area and the idea of how to manage.

1736
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:39,599
Speaker 1: That's great. That's cool man. So someone if someone bought

1737
01:42:40,680 --> 01:42:43,640
Speaker 1: some property in the vicinity, they might come out to

1738
01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:45,680
Speaker 1: be like, what's possible. You could come here and see

1739
01:42:45,720 --> 01:42:48,400
Speaker 1: what's possible. We show you how to get on a

1740
01:42:48,439 --> 01:42:51,160
Speaker 1: smaller scale what we have here. That's awesome, that's nice.

1741
01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:54,240
Speaker 1: He has some really interesting demonstrations like what happens when

1742
01:42:54,280 --> 01:42:56,919
Speaker 1: you chopped the juniper and looking at the water retention

1743
01:42:57,080 --> 01:43:01,000
Speaker 1: of grasses versus you know, cedar, and how that helps

1744
01:43:01,040 --> 01:43:04,080
Speaker 1: your water table, etcetera. It's it's really good stuff and

1745
01:43:04,160 --> 01:43:06,880
Speaker 1: then your inner child you might be missing out. We

1746
01:43:06,960 --> 01:43:12,320
Speaker 1: do have dinosaur footprints on the police. We have places

1747
01:43:12,360 --> 01:43:15,880
Speaker 1: where we collect fossils. Oh man, you've got to wrangle

1748
01:43:15,920 --> 01:43:20,240
Speaker 1: in work. So that's what I got to call it

1749
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:26,000
Speaker 1: wrangled one. I called it special. And then how do

1750
01:43:26,080 --> 01:43:27,320
Speaker 1: people go find Like, if they want to get the

1751
01:43:27,320 --> 01:43:30,200
Speaker 1: broader picture of the organization, what's the best place to go? Look? Yeah,

1752
01:43:30,320 --> 01:43:34,479
Speaker 1: just Conservation Centers dot org. It's plural. And then go

1753
01:43:34,560 --> 01:43:37,120
Speaker 1: on there you can see our programs and find out

1754
01:43:37,600 --> 01:43:41,479
Speaker 1: just a wealth of information and our member institutions who

1755
01:43:41,560 --> 01:43:44,040
Speaker 1: we work with, etcetera. How to make a donation, Yeah,

1756
01:43:44,280 --> 01:43:46,400
Speaker 1: right there on the home page. All right, Well, thank

1757
01:43:46,439 --> 01:43:50,160
Speaker 1: you guys, appreciate it, Thank you. Pleasure. It's privileged to

1758
01:43:50,240 --> 01:44:09,000
Speaker 1: be here with you. Prof. Arter