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Speaker 1: This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first light. Go farther, stay longer. Alright, Spencer,

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Speaker 1: we got a lot to do. But how quick do

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Speaker 1: you think you can do your Arkansas and update? Quick?

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Speaker 1: I think Arkansas update? But set up? Why? Why isn't up?

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Speaker 1: Like why we talked in the past about the term

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Speaker 1: Arkansas or something. No, it means different things with different people.

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Speaker 1: It means popping up and shooting a duck off the water,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Or you can Arkansas grouse, shooting a pheasant

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Speaker 1: out of the ditch, shooting a dove off of power line?

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Speaker 1: Did we mention? No, that is not Arkansas. It's not.

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Speaker 1: You can't Arkansas a dove off a power line. Why

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Speaker 1: not just be shooting dup off a powerline? Arkansas is

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Speaker 1: shooting it on the ground. Well, let's let's get in

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Speaker 1: Like if you shot a turkey out of a tree,

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Speaker 1: God forbid, you wouldn't be saying you Arkansas the turkey

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Speaker 1: when he's down the ground. You do on Arkansas, I know,

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Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying. You're you're like Arkansas means

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Speaker 1: that you're sort of taking this like uh an advantage

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Speaker 1: over your quarry and you know, no, go ahead. That's

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Speaker 1: all I have to say I understand is my old

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Speaker 1: man told me that in Arkansas, there's like a boat

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Speaker 1: in Arkansas boat something you'd pull up on ducks and

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Speaker 1: have all these ten gage shotguns lined out and you

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Speaker 1: they're they're one at water level, one slightly higher, one

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Speaker 1: slightly higher. As he explained to me, Arkansas boat pulls

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Speaker 1: up on a raft of ducks, boom bottom, they start

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Speaker 1: to take off, boom. The next gun they start to

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Speaker 1: take off, boom. The next volley is a little higher

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Speaker 1: on rigged boat rigged ones on boats. And that's my

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Speaker 1: That's what he told me. And that name, though I

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Speaker 1: thought you had said, was inspired by like the warship,

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Speaker 1: I can definitely never said that a worship. Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: were US Arkansas. That's right. I was pulling, stupid, I

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Speaker 1: was pulling for your explanation to be correct, Steve. When

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Speaker 1: when you brought that up, I'm like, Okay, that's uh,

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Speaker 1: that's like a cute explanation. That makes sense. The worship

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Speaker 1: that I've never heard the duck boat things Okay, that's cute. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think so like fits all right. I can't find

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Speaker 1: anything about it. They've talked to my old man. I

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Speaker 1: was even biased. My dad had written down here, here's

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Speaker 1: how the internet works. If my old man had written

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Speaker 1: down his theory and put it on an article, you

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Speaker 1: would have searched and you've been like, oh, here's proof. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I was pulling for you. I was even biased in

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Speaker 1: my search. Hope me to confirm what you said, because

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Speaker 1: I like that explanation so much. But I found that

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Speaker 1: Arkansas as a term extends way beyond just like a

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Speaker 1: method of take. It's a derogatory term used all over hunting,

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Speaker 1: lingo and beyond. So you have an Arkansas limit, which

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Speaker 1: is if you're allowed like fifteen crop eas and you

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Speaker 1: take home sixteen, but the Bakers doesn't, you got an

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Speaker 1: Arkansas limit. If if you're not allowed to shoot hand

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Speaker 1: pheasants and you shoot a hand pheasant, then you've got

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Speaker 1: an Arkansas limit. Let's just start calling it a newcomb. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's that's that's horrible because clays like that. It gets

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Speaker 1: worse here. I was listen, I just want to clarify something.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't making a comment on Clay's like adherence to

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Speaker 1: game laws, I was more like his him being from Arkansas.

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Speaker 1: I I found um an article written by somebody from

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Speaker 1: Arkansas talking about the Arkansas of America, which was written

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Speaker 1: in advance of Bill Clinton becoming president, in talking about

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Speaker 1: how Arkansas is a term you can find all over

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Speaker 1: the South that means a lot of different things. So

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Speaker 1: that's that's where a lot of cinfo is coming from. Also,

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Speaker 1: different forums where people talking about, like, hey, what do

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Speaker 1: you guys call it when you uh like shoot something

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Speaker 1: off of power line? Or what do you call it

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Speaker 1: when you shoot something off water? So that's that's where

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Speaker 1: the c info is coming from. So that's where so

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Speaker 1: it just means taking liberties, taking liberties with we got

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Speaker 1: in our context, in our context of what we deal

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Speaker 1: with here on this program. It's taking liberties with game laws. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and you'll you'll like these other examples, then can you

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Speaker 1: Arkansas your taxes? You have? Now that this was probably

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Speaker 1: my favorite one, And there's terms different terms for it

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Speaker 1: all over the United States that I found in these

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Speaker 1: different forums. If deer season opens on November two sunset

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Speaker 1: and November one is referred to as the Arkansas open

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Speaker 1: or if you live in Minnesota, you might refer to

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Speaker 1: do it as the Wisconsin opener. Or I found people

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Speaker 1: in the north Woods that would refer to it as

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Speaker 1: the Finnish opener or the Polish opener. So basically, whatever

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Speaker 1: group of folks you'd like to put down, it's just

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Speaker 1: insert here opener when I You know what's funny about

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Speaker 1: that is when I was growing up, you always hated

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Speaker 1: like the real rednecks rods just north of you. So

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Speaker 1: if you were in twin Light, you knew that the

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Speaker 1: real hell Billies were in Holton. If you ask from

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Speaker 1: from Holton who the real hell Billies were, they were

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Speaker 1: from Hispiia. And it just marched up the state like that.

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Speaker 1: In these places are not far apart, you know, but

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Speaker 1: it was like a very like other. That's where the

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Speaker 1: real poachers are. You know. When I, when I was

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Speaker 1: a kid, um, I couldn't remember the difference between North

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Speaker 1: Korea and South Korea. I grew up in South Dakota,

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Speaker 1: and our history teacher told us in middle school, he says, well,

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Speaker 1: you remember it like this, South Dakota is good and

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Speaker 1: South Korea is good. North Korea is very bad. North

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Speaker 1: Dakota is very bad. Do you We're gonna move on.

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Speaker 1: But do you remember when South Dakota North North Dakota

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Speaker 1: did that play that North Dakota was gonna change its

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Speaker 1: name to Dakota in South Dakota got pissed. I mean

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Speaker 1: this is ah No, yeah, I don't, I don't remember.

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Speaker 1: It was like a pr stunt. But they're they're gonna

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Speaker 1: drop the North. They were gonna do whatever it takes

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Speaker 1: to drop North and become Dakota. Like Virginia West Virginia, right,

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Speaker 1: They wanted to do that same thing, and they thought

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Speaker 1: it would help tourism out because if you said to

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Speaker 1: someone like, hey man, you want to go on on

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Speaker 1: a vacation to Dakota, there you go. You know, it

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Speaker 1: makes South seem like, I don't know, like whatever some

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Speaker 1: I've forgotten other part. It'd be like Virginia holds more.

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Speaker 1: You know, I guess holds that. I'm not gonna go

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Speaker 1: with that, you know what I'm saying, Yeah, not hold on.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm afraid you still think your Arkansas boat explanation

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Speaker 1: is a correct one. Yeah, of course, I have other

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Speaker 1: examples here to show you how Arkansas just us a

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Speaker 1: derogatory term all over. You have Arkansas asphalt, which is

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Speaker 1: a chromey road with pothole. You can go on in

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Speaker 1: Arkansas date, which is the same thing as going Dutch.

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Speaker 1: Each pay for your own thing. Uh. You can Arkansas

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Speaker 1: somebody out of something, which is like swindling, like that

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Speaker 1: banker wants to Arkansas somebody out of his farm. You

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Speaker 1: have on Arkansas wedding cake. Do you want to take

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Speaker 1: a guess as to what that is? A pie? Corn bread?

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Speaker 1: You have an Arkansas strawberry, which is a hickey. And

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Speaker 1: then in the card game of Uker, you can get Arkansas,

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Speaker 1: which is if you are trying to get like five

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Speaker 1: tricks in Uker and you come up with only three,

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Speaker 1: you came up short, so now you're gonna get Arkansas.

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Speaker 1: It's weird that that exists. But then there's also a

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Speaker 1: type of duck hunting boat called an Arkansas boat. Good Dry.

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Speaker 1: I kind of believe you. I kind to believe you,

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Speaker 1: but I almost have to have I'd have to talk

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Speaker 1: to Clay about it too. I feel bad for you.

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Speaker 1: Talk to about it a little bit in the past,

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Speaker 1: and he he said, they don't refer it is refer

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Speaker 1: to it as that, but is he aware of it? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when you're in Arkansas and you Arkansas dark, what do

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Speaker 1: they say? Well? Okay, So you come across examples of

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Speaker 1: this in forums where like somebody from Arkansas refirst do

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Speaker 1: it is Oklahoma? Or you have like somebody in Mississippi,

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Speaker 1: uh that refers to it as Louisiana or whatever. But

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Speaker 1: Arkansas seems to be a fairly agreed upon term. We

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Speaker 1: get people from like Wyoming, Michigan, Illinois, like all over

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Speaker 1: the country. Oh yeah, I was gonna ask if we

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Speaker 1: could send if we could a sign spencer, like another

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Speaker 1: task here for the next podcast and come back with

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Speaker 1: the origins of Kentucky windage m HM, which I have

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Speaker 1: always heard and Seth corrobreadd that it's basically like the

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Speaker 1: long hunters not taking real precise shots and just being

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Speaker 1: like just all four feet over it's back. But I

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Speaker 1: think it's I think it's because I think it's I

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Speaker 1: think it's a honorable thing. I think it's like you're

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Speaker 1: talking about these these very like the long Kentucky long

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Speaker 1: hunters with Kentucky rifles, these people who had were like

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Speaker 1: very accurate instinctive shooters or is it poking fun at

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Speaker 1: the hunting culture in Kentucky. Have you ever watched that

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Speaker 1: You ever watched The Alamo? No where Billy Bob Thornton

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Speaker 1: plays Boone? Doesn't he play Boone in the Alamo? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Billy Bob Thornton plays Boone and he goes to shoot uh.

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Speaker 1: He goes to shoot uh Mexican officer at the Alamo,

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Speaker 1: and he licks his finger and holds it up in

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Speaker 1: the air and then takes this crazy shot and kills

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Speaker 1: the guy. I think that he's like it was an

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Speaker 1: homage to Kentucky windage. I like it. I can get

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Speaker 1: behind that, and I will be cheering for that explanation

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Speaker 1: when I do something sleuth thing. I want to move

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Speaker 1: on to Yanni's Mountain Lion Store, but I have one

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Speaker 1: more thing to say, and this is a thing that

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Speaker 1: I'd like to spend some time on. At some point,

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Speaker 1: as we recognize, like as we as a culture recognized

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Speaker 1: that you know, you shouldn't tell don't tell Vinanoli jokes, right,

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Speaker 1: don't tell Polish jokes like these are jokes that are

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Speaker 1: insulting the people in their prejudicial um, at what point

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Speaker 1: and it's I'm not the guy that invented this thought,

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Speaker 1: But at what point, why is it still okay? It

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Speaker 1: will always be okay. The one thing everyone can agree

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Speaker 1: on that like one despicable thing is a poor Southern

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Speaker 1: white person, do you know what I mean. It's like

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Speaker 1: it's like it winds up being that. It's like you

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Speaker 1: can always dog on that in the movie. If you

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Speaker 1: got a movie and you want a bad person to

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Speaker 1: come out, the bad person will come out, and it

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Speaker 1: will be like, let me guess, right, let me guess

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Speaker 1: we were I was watching movie with my kids where

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Speaker 1: it's like these these wolf it's a stupid movie where

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Speaker 1: they got to move these It's it's one of those

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Speaker 1: movies where like the animals are the good guys and

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Speaker 1: all the people are bad guys, and there's these guys

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Speaker 1: are doing like wolf removal in Canada. But sure enough

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Speaker 1: they come out and it sounds like American Southerners. M hmm.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a stereotype that I don't I think

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be the last. The last standing stereotype would

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Speaker 1: be that that, uh, you know, an American Southerner with

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Speaker 1: a drawal is it will be like the last that

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Speaker 1: would be the last one to go away? What do

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Speaker 1: you think about that? Kin' right? That's that's I thought

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have. I thought that you would. Um. I

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Speaker 1: think I feel that I was being that. I was

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Speaker 1: like that, I didn't put that right. No, I think

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Speaker 1: unfortunately that's right. I think that we have stereotype kind

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Speaker 1: of deeply seated that people who sound a certain way

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Speaker 1: with a Southern draw like that, that that and like

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Speaker 1: intelligence don't go together. And that's that's just not that's

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Speaker 1: just ridiculous because I could still run around if I

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Speaker 1: went and said to some people, Um, if I went

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Speaker 1: to some enlightened folks and I said, oh yeah, he

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Speaker 1: Arkansas at the duckt, They're not gonna say like, dude,

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Speaker 1: come on, They're not, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: They're gonna be oh yeah, those people. There was a

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Speaker 1: show on Netflix called The one hundred Humans where they

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Speaker 1: took fifty people and put them in auditorium and they

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Speaker 1: had a presentation done by someone with a British accent,

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Speaker 1: and then that exact same person gave a presentation to

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Speaker 1: another group of fifty people, the exact same presentation, word

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Speaker 1: for word, minute for a minute, but in a Southern accent.

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Speaker 1: And then they had the audience, like give them a

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Speaker 1: score for what did you think of this person? And

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Speaker 1: like give us some commentary on them? And the person

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Speaker 1: with the British accent got far better remarks despite it

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Speaker 1: being the exact same information, exact same That is interesting

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Speaker 1: and not surprising. Yeah, okay, we gotta do an update

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Speaker 1: on Suvie. Are you guys more like sue Vied? I

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Speaker 1: never know what the hell to say. I used to

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Speaker 1: say sue Vie than I heard people that seem like

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Speaker 1: they know more than me say Suevied. I think I

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Speaker 1: think the E at the end makes it a hard d.

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Speaker 1: There you go, Suvied. Two years of French in high school.

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Speaker 1: That either makes you pretty qualified? Yeah, I think so too. Well,

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Speaker 1: that would make me qualified on Spanish and that's not true.

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Speaker 1: While we're on Suvied, since my dad brought this up

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Speaker 1: and this is why we're gon we're continuing on this topic, UM,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna also go ahead and introduce uh this morning,

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Speaker 1: Stephen Ronnella, Seth Morris Spencer, new Hearth, Phil the engineer

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Speaker 1: and Crine Schneider Snyder always mess it up? Why Snyder's

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Speaker 1: from that? Snyder was the mechanic in that show, Alice,

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Speaker 1: which one is it? Smack me on my head and

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Speaker 1: tell me, Snidernier, what years that reference from? Steve? I

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Speaker 1: think there were reruns when I was a little boy,

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Speaker 1: like I told, I told said the day he looked

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Speaker 1: like Gomer Pile. He didn't know what I was talking about.

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Speaker 1: And then I looked it out and it's hilarious. I

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Speaker 1: got because see, I think that we only watched old

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Speaker 1: shows when I was little, and I don't watch much anymore,

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Speaker 1: so all my watching was already stuff that was already old.

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Speaker 1: Somebody made the observation yesterday that the only pop culture

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Speaker 1: references you like are from the eighties and eighties? Is

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Speaker 1: a modernor that would be like that. I almost don't

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Speaker 1: like that because it's too new. Like if I see

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Speaker 1: someone who's like pretty ripped, I'll say that, you know,

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Speaker 1: it looks like Lou Frigno, um, and I'm like, what

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Speaker 1: the hell? So so uh Sue uh Sue vied. We

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Speaker 1: gotta have to put this one of the rest, because

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Speaker 1: I gotta explain now this is an update about an

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Speaker 1: update a long time ago. I hate to even review

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Speaker 1: this people a long time ago. I'm trying to do

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Speaker 1: as quick as possible. Guy wrote in saying, hey man, my,

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Speaker 1: we were doing a home birth and some people that

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Speaker 1: do a home birth find it's more comfortable to do it.

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Speaker 1: And the heated tub. They were heating the tub for

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Speaker 1: the new baby to emerge into the world by dipping

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Speaker 1: a stuvie apparatus and there, which is like a thing

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Speaker 1: you plug into your wall. You're honest father, being a

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Speaker 1: building inspector and generally hip to human safety rights. Then

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Speaker 1: he says, when you're in a tub full of water,

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Speaker 1: don't put plugged in things into it with you. And

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Speaker 1: then we felt this probably useful to bring that up

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Speaker 1: because you know how many movies you see where someone

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Speaker 1: gets in the tub and then drops like a whatever

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Speaker 1: in there and it's electrocuted. So he thought, it's not

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Speaker 1: made for that. Definitely, don't suggest that. And then we

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Speaker 1: talked about how does it work, like, like, how does

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Speaker 1: liability work. Yanny was doing it because he didn't want to, uh,

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Speaker 1: he didn't want his conscience. He didn't want dead infants

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Speaker 1: on his conscience and newborns and I didn't want liability.

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Speaker 1: I think there's some crossover between this on those issues.

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Speaker 1: So that this lawyer writes in about how liability works

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Speaker 1: in these kind of situations, and he was explaining there's

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Speaker 1: a certain you know, breed of lawyer who this is

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Speaker 1: their bread and butter, where a dumb person does something

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Speaker 1: dumb and then wants to blame others when they get hurt,

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Speaker 1: and this plaintiff's litigation becomes like a sort of legal extortion.

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Speaker 1: So he says, it plays out like this, like a

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Speaker 1: person listens to your podcast, right, they decided that I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna heat my top up with a suvied apparatus. They

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Speaker 1: get shocked in the tub, they go to the hospital.

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Speaker 1: They're sitting in the hospital and they've seen one of

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Speaker 1: those attorney commercials while they're recuperating, and it's one of

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Speaker 1: those commercials like car wret, slip and fall, Get the

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Speaker 1: Justice you Deserve. They call that one number to get tough.

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Speaker 1: They described the circumstances and extent of their injuries. The

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Speaker 1: plaintiff's attorney then does a little mental math and compare

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Speaker 1: the severity usually quantified in hospital bills to who are

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Speaker 1: we gonna sue? And as you trail this down, you're

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Speaker 1: looking for a well ensured, well funder, well known person

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Speaker 1: entity that could be liable at that point, it's game.

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Speaker 1: On says in the suvied scenario that we're explaining here

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Speaker 1: like someone hears it on this show gets hurt. They

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Speaker 1: called us like get tough attorney. He's gonna start out,

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Speaker 1: He's gonna be curious about the su vied manufacturer for

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Speaker 1: a defective product design. He's gonna be curious about the

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Speaker 1: seller of the suvied apparatus for selling a poorly designed product.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna be curious about the home unit building contractor

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Speaker 1: potentially for faulty construction or wiring. He's gonna be curious

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Speaker 1: about the home unit building electrician for the same reasons.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna get curious about the landlord for renting a

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Speaker 1: potentially dangerous apartment. He's gonna get curious about Meatia or

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Speaker 1: inc for negligence and promoting and encouraging dangerous practices. He's

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Speaker 1: gonna get curious about the particular but who were on

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Speaker 1: the podcast and their personal capacity for negligence and promoting

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Speaker 1: and encouraging dangerous practices, and anyone else that you can

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Speaker 1: think of. Then it's a classic situation where though no

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Speaker 1: single individual is responsible, each one of these people has

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Speaker 1: to participate in the litigation, and therefore they carry inherent

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Speaker 1: risk of exposure. What happens then is you go to

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Speaker 1: each of these people and you lay out how you're

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Speaker 1: thinking about this whole thing. The pitch is something like this, Look,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to defend this lawsuit no matter what,

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Speaker 1: no matter what we're coming after. You're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: get lawyers and defend yourself. The way I'm gonna pull

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Speaker 1: this off, It's gonna cost you ten thousand bucks to

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Speaker 1: defend yourself. What you can do is just give me

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Speaker 1: that ten thousand now and I'll dismiss it. No embarrassments,

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Speaker 1: no court. But that's how this is gonna go down.

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Speaker 1: You get a bunch of these people, they all agree

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Speaker 1: to it. Then you end up with a pretty decent

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Speaker 1: total settlement. No one ever goes in to see a jar,

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Speaker 1: there's no jury. Everybody just gets extorted out of their money.

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Speaker 1: So don't put the damn suevite deal. If you're thinking

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Speaker 1: of suing meat eater, We're onto you. Yeah, I'll be like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, bro bring it on, That's what I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say. I'm gonna be like, bring it up, bring

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Speaker 1: it up, that's where you get into that whole world,

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Speaker 1: you know, to hear about countersuing counter suing for dance,

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean. Uh, So here's a good segue.

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Speaker 1: So uh a listener did write in to say this.

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Speaker 1: Here here's where you learn that this does happen because

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Speaker 1: a guy says he was listening to the podcast and

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Speaker 1: heard about the Suevied birthing bath. It gave him an idea.

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Speaker 1: During the big Texas deep freeze, the two twenty one

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Speaker 1: deep freeze, when all of his power and gases out,

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Speaker 1: he did use a generator and a Suevied apparatus to

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Speaker 1: heat water to and he said it and use his generator,

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Speaker 1: heated his water to a hundred and thirteen degrees, filled

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Speaker 1: a large shrimp pot, and then use that water debathe,

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Speaker 1: but not with the device in it. He said, I

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Speaker 1: would never have thought of this hadn't you boys mentioned it.

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Speaker 1: So he just used it to warm up the water

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Speaker 1: and then moved the device and then cleaned up in

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Speaker 1: his shrimp pot. So he also goes out and here's

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Speaker 1: what here's what the good segue comes in. He also

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Speaker 1: goes on to explain that he works for an h

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Speaker 1: back company. Interestingly, if he works for an h back company,

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Speaker 1: how did he never think of this? It's a good point.

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Speaker 1: I used to be on you know, LinkedIn. I used

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Speaker 1: to be on linked I just recently got off it again.

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Speaker 1: But all my like associates be like some h bad

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Speaker 1: guy in Florida. You know. I'm like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: we how are we going to help each other in networking?

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Speaker 1: But sure we could be partners. Um, he works for

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Speaker 1: an h back company and ways, so they have a supply.

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Speaker 1: This this gets so concluded. They have a supplier who

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Speaker 1: has a big ranch, and they allow the employees to

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Speaker 1: hunt the big ranch because they're all in the business relationship. Anyways,

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Speaker 1: two thousand five access deer died on this ranch. Throws

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Speaker 1: the death on this ranch. Their entire population of black

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Speaker 1: buck antelope died killed in that deep freeze. They were

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Speaker 1: loading them up in bucket loaders and burning the carcasses.

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Speaker 1: He's like, I wish you would have been there. Would

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Speaker 1: have got me a lot of free meat. And man,

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Speaker 1: do we get a lot of feedback from people after

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Speaker 1: seeing the big deep freeze of just mountains of dead

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Speaker 1: animals and a lot of them like very highly esteemed um,

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Speaker 1: wild game species, right, like Neil guy, you know, as

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Speaker 1: our our friend Jesse Griffin's explained, like you guy in

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Speaker 1: South Texas is a stand in for beef. He's like ranch,

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Speaker 1: yoursell cows. They eat Neil guy. Um, they lost eighties

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Speaker 1: some on their place and experience conversation like why can't

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Speaker 1: you after the big deep freeze? Why can you or

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Speaker 1: can you not go out there and just like give

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Speaker 1: it to food banks or go out and cut all

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Speaker 1: the backstraps out and live off it. So we're taking

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Speaker 1: our questions to doctor Professor Chris Calkins, meet scientists at

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Speaker 1: University of Nebraska. And you might know Dr Calkins because

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Speaker 1: he was on the show before our greatest episode ever.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was called. You can't remember,

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Speaker 1: that's right, Yeah, the Red Cutter. You want to learn

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Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff about butcher and whatnot and and

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Speaker 1: safety protocol, uh, slaughter practices, all that stuff. Seven. I

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Speaker 1: listened to it twice. It was so good. Red Cutter.

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Speaker 1: Chris Colkins, Well, thanks for the question. After that lead

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Speaker 1: up introduction, I'm not sure I should say anything with

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Speaker 1: all this litigation in the air. Yeah you did, you

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Speaker 1: didn't realize how the ring started. You didn't realize how

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Speaker 1: liable you were. That's it. We we talked last time

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Speaker 1: about the fact that when you harvest an animal that

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Speaker 1: there is the risk that bacteria will migrate from the

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Speaker 1: gut into the meat and create a food safety problem.

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Speaker 1: That's regardless of the quality of the meat. There is

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Speaker 1: that health risk. And so if we have an animal

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Speaker 1: that dies because of a cold spell, we have that

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Speaker 1: same concern about duration between when death occurs and when

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Speaker 1: you're able to remove the guts and remove the source

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Speaker 1: of health risk from the animal. And so it's really

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Speaker 1: easy to think about, Gosh, if we're just freezing meat,

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Speaker 1: then frozen meat is okay to eat, which certainly frozen

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Speaker 1: meat is safe. But I would start by saying, we

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Speaker 1: need to remember that animals and people can freeze to

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Speaker 1: death at at freezing temperatures. It doesn't have to be

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Speaker 1: so many degrees below zero, and the body doesn't instantly

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Speaker 1: freeze stiff. It takes a long time to remove the

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Speaker 1: heat to be able to freeze something solid, and so

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Speaker 1: that time duration between death and freezing of the meat

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Speaker 1: is the time at which the health risk occurs. So

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Speaker 1: that's a long way for me to say that if

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Speaker 1: I come upon an animal that's frozen, I'm not interested

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Speaker 1: in eating the meat because of a health concern and

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Speaker 1: health consideration. Chris, can you explain the process of death,

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Speaker 1: the physiological processes of death. You know, in freezing temperatures,

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Speaker 1: these animals in dying go through what well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's uh, there's some similarities here between the what the

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Speaker 1: animal experiences and what humans experience in a hypothermia case. Right,

426
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: So the body does two things. First of all, it

427
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: tries to retain heat, right, prevent heat loss. So we

428
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: do that by closing down the blood vessels on our extremities,

429
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 1: and we try and centralize the blood more towards the

430
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: center of the animal. And of course there's a whole

431
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 1: lot of physiological stress that goes on. So we're gonna

432
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: dump adrenaline and cortisol and everything else into the bloodstream

433
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: and that's going to trigger a whole set of reactions.

434
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: So the first thing have this body tries to retain heat,

435
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: and then secondly it says I'm getting cold, I need

436
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: to produce heat, and so that production of heat we

437
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: start increasing metabolic rates that causes UH. In humans, we

438
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: get muscle shivering. Uh. In animals, we're going to move

439
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: to glycogen and fats as sources of energy because we

440
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: have this energy deficit and the metabolic consequences of that.

441
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: Ultimately we we change blood chemistry. Um, we start to

442
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 1: produce cold induced production of urine. All of that disrupt

443
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 1: the electrolytes and eventually the animal will die through cardiac arrest.

444
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: Oh that's what winds up happening, Chris. I understand what

445
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: you're saying about the you know, the mystery of time

446
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: of death. And I can also understand how someone would

447
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: think while the animal, like an animal froze to death,

448
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: so it must have been you know, it must have

449
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: been preserved, because we associate coldness with preservation. So I

450
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: get that you'd have that that logical mistake of not

451
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: realizing that then still retains body heat for potentially hours

452
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: and maybe never freezes. But let's say there was a

453
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: situation where, um, I know this is like this is

454
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 1: macab But let's say there's a situation where you you

455
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: see the animal expired. Okay, um, so you know that

456
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: it frolls to death. I was there at the moment

457
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: of death. What would you think at that point about

458
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: like the quality of flesh of something that went through

459
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: that kind of death when you compare it to in

460
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 1: a controlled commercial atmosphere. They're looking for low stress, very

461
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: quick death. Well, you're right. Commercially, that's exactly what the

462
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: goal is is low stress and quick death. But if

463
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: you happen upon an animal and you happen to see

464
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: its last breath it expires because it's cold outside, that

465
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: that animal is still going to be warm. That body

466
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: will not be in rigor mortis. It will be very

467
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: similar to what you see if you were to go

468
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: shoot a deer and uh, it might be cold outside,

469
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: but you know, the temperature of the body itself is

470
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: still going to be quite high. And so at that instant,

471
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: from a temperature standpoint, you could say, Okay, I've found

472
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,959
Speaker 1: it quick enough. Now I have the possibility of maybe

473
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: considering whether I want to save the meat or not.

474
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: But but think about all of those things that happened

475
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: that caused that animal to expire. The blood chemistry is

476
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: messed up, you have metabolic acidosis that the acid in

477
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: the body has been produced. We start to see damage

478
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: to the internal lining of the gut, which potentially could

479
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: make it easier for bacteria tics to go. The blood

480
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: is full of extra dose of stress hormones, all of

481
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: those things. Even if you might be able to eat

482
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: it and might might think it's gonna be okay, those

483
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: are those are not ideal conditions for how you would

484
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: harvest meat from a game animal. And so you're really

485
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,719
Speaker 1: dealing with an animal that Remember, all of those conditions

486
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: got so bad that the animal died as a result

487
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: of the change to biochemistry inside that muscle. I wouldn't

488
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: be anxious to bite into that kind of physiological situation

489
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: in animals as as a result of the animal having

490
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: pros it today. Can let me hit you with with

491
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: one more um, this is great. So I already know

492
00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: the answer to this, But this is more of a

493
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: less of a professional question, more of a personal question.

494
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: I think I know the answer to it. When you look,

495
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: if you see footage like this um or some of

496
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: these images that came out of that deep freeze of

497
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: just these massive mounds of dead animals um in your head,

498
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: are you thinking, oh, there's some things that could be

499
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 1: done or that we could do to salvage that or

500
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: use that, or you just you look and you're like

501
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: burn it, bury it. I mean, there's nothing to be

502
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: done here. I mean, I, like everybody else, I hate

503
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: to see product wasted. And so you're I understand the tendency.

504
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: Don't want to say it ought to be okay to

505
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: go ahead and eat this. Um. But if if an

506
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: if a commercial animal died that way, our federal inspection

507
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: system would not allow that product to be sold. That's interesting. Um,

508
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: there's a there truly is uh concerns and considerations about

509
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: the aesthetics of how that animal died in a issue

510
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: to all the chemistry changes that are taking place that

511
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: would really give you cause to pause. Now, you know,

512
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: you can always build a scenario that maybe we're freezing

513
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: to death too, and if we don't eat, we die,

514
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: and so in a situation like that, would I be

515
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: willing to eat the product? Well, you know, given the alternatives,

516
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: perhaps so. But but every step along the way, you're

517
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: increasing risk of of to your health. And again I

518
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 1: emphasize that it got so bad for that animal that

519
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: that animal's health was risk to the point where the

520
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 1: animal died. And now you want to eat it, you know,

521
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: if you if you want to eat it when it

522
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: starts getting cold, that's one thing. But to to to

523
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: take something that already died um from from a cold

524
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: situation like this, you that animal has already had a

525
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: whole lot of metabolic changes taking place inside the body

526
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: trying to fight off that ultimate death. And when you

527
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: when you take uh that product, when you take that meat,

528
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: then it has the consequence of all of those metabolic

529
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: changes that have occurred that tried to keep that animal alive.

530
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: And those are that that would be an unnatural amount

531
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: of biological changes that you normally find when you shoot

532
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: an animal or when an animals commercially harvested for meat. Excellent,

533
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: this is great. I'll finally be able to sleep at

534
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: night without the guilt of having not run down to Texas.

535
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: There you go. You know, in Nebraska here a few

536
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: weeks ago we had minus thirty one degrees as a

537
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: cold temperature in February. Now that's not a typical fact.

538
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 1: That was a record low temperature. But we didn't have

539
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: every every wild animal or even every commercial animal in

540
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: the state die. Their acclama did over the course of

541
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: the winter to um to accommodate some of those temperatures,

542
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: and so that cold situation that occurred in Texas, and

543
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: my wife's from Texas, so I've I've been there plenty,

544
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: and I you know, it's a great state. But those

545
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: animals were not acclimated to a sudden shift in temperature,

546
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: so biologically their response was greater than it would be

547
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: for an animal, for example, in Nebraska that would experience

548
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: a similar condition. Huh, that's a good point. Let me

549
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: let me hear another one. And I really appreciate that

550
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: you're willing to um entertain these kind of you know,

551
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: sort of strange out there questions, but the legitimate questions.

552
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: These are questions we get from people. We had recently

553
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: had I had recently put a photo on Instagram that

554
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: Alignment working in New York had found where a I

555
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: think it was a four thousand, eight hundred vault overhead

556
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: power line had collapsed and it had landed on a buck.

557
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: It must have been summertime, like it was a white

558
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: tail and still in velvet, landed on the buck and obviously,

559
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: you know, killed the buck and seemed to kind of

560
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: burn a big deep line across it. And then we

561
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: had a lot of people sending photos of you know,

562
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: black bears that declimbed power lines. Just how they climb

563
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: a tree, but climbed a power line and got electricute

564
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: all these things. I had no idea there's this much

565
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 1: stuff out there being electrocuted. And when you consider that

566
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: in a in a commercial slaughter practice, as we discussed

567
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:39,919
Speaker 1: when you came on the show, you explained in great

568
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: detail about during the slaughter process how they do use

569
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 1: um electricity during the slaught, like post post mortem electricity

570
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: during the slaughter process. If you were sitting there and

571
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: you saw all of a sudden, like a a great

572
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: a steer whatever the hell like a like the per

573
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: fixed specimen and it steps on a wire and wham

574
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: gets killed by electricity, then what's in your head? I

575
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 1: got you like, oh, I better get my knife sharpened up?

576
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: Or are you like, damn, there goes my good cow

577
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: because it doesn't go through that process of like the

578
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: body starting to have a stress response. Yeah, so in

579
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 1: that case you're dealing with instant death. And as we

580
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:35,439
Speaker 1: just talked about, you can you can use um. It's

581
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: not done for cattle, but for for other species you

582
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: can use electricity. It is a U s d A

583
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 1: approved method of dispatch for animals. And so if I'm

584
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: standing there and that animal gets you know, the bigger

585
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: likelihood of what happens is a bolt of lightning, And

586
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: every now and then there will be a whole crowd

587
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: of cattle crowded together. A bolt of lightning will come

588
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: along and it'll it'll take out twenty or thirty animals.

589
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 1: So that's a that's an instantaneous death. And you could

590
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: certainly go harvest the product at that point. And just

591
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: as if you'd shot your your animal, and you'd be

592
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: good to go. So as long as you got to

593
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: it immediately after the electrocution, then I would say that

594
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: that's that's that's a legitimate cause of death for an animal.

595
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: Happened quickly, not time for a real metabolic response and

596
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: all the rest of those things. You're probably good to

597
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: go under that case. Now, if you if you wander

598
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: on that same animal, uh, and you can see that

599
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: it was killed by electricity, but it's already stiff, it's

600
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: already in rigor. You know, it could have been there

601
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 1: six eight hours or more. And once again, the time

602
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 1: frame is way too long from death to harvest to

603
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: to to want to run a risk of capturing product

604
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: under those conditions. Excellent. I'm glad we called all right,

605
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: Dr Chris Calkins, thank you very very much. Um, we

606
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: need to get you here for real sometime. Yes, absolutely,

607
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: I appreciate you joining us remotely. University of Nebraska. Correct,

608
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: that is correct, Yes, thank you sir, all right, thank

609
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: you all yeah. Yeah, I need to tell us you're

610
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: you're tell us you're how you narrowly escape death from

611
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 1: a mountain lion. Buddy, I'm still shaking after that one.

612
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 1: Zack Sandow and I Zack from on X. We're hunting,

613
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: uh the opening weekend of Montana's turkey season, and uh,

614
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: I'll skip through the part where we didn't make the

615
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: right moves in the morning to get on these birds

616
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 1: that we had so lokated so well the evening before.

617
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 1: Man like we went to sleep going like did turkey

618
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: in the morning. But yeah, what's that someone's got a

619
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: saying about that roosted ain't roasted or something like that. Well, yeah,

620
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 1: we were, we were singing that song in the morning. Anyways.

621
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: You also skip the part where you killed one the

622
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 1: day before, so you were already successful at this point.

623
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, different spot though, the same spot,

624
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: same spot. Yeah. Um, he's modest. I'll started right out

625
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: with that. Well, you know, if I was the reason

626
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,439
Speaker 1: meing is because I shot the turkey, slowed it down

627
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: a little bit, and then I did not have a

628
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,399
Speaker 1: window for a follow up shot. Zack polished him off

629
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 1: and he got that was his bird. Obviously quite about that, Yeah,

630
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: he was trying to so the next morning, So that

631
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: couple hours in the morning, we're like, all right, this

632
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: ain't working, and and luckily we can hear a distant

633
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: golber like way on this ridge above us, and so

634
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 1: we strip our layers off. It might have been the

635
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 1: coldest turkey morning I've ever had, twenty three degrees when

636
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: we got out of the truck. Yeah, they don't want

637
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: to get out of the treaty too early when that's

638
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 1: going on. Sometimes, Like I wore my puffy pants to

639
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: this setup for that. That's incredible, man. So we strip

640
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 1: off some layers we had about We figured we could

641
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: have close to a thousand feet of elevation game and uh,

642
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: we get up there and one gobbler turns into like two,

643
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 1: and then as we get closer, we realized there's quite

644
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 1: a few gobblers going and we're working in there. It's

645
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: just real thick a lot of dead fall. There's been

646
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: like a wind event in this area, and so just

647
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: hard to kind of get through the wind event. Yeah,

648
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: wind event that just like a big trees flattened in

649
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: the same direction. Well just like you could tell fresh

650
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: trees have recently been blown over with you and uh,

651
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: it's it's just brushy. It's real hard to move anywhere.

652
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: Slow lead or sorry quietly, Um it was making me

653
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,279
Speaker 1: move slow. Anyways, We're getting close and trying to figure

654
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: out how to get in on these turkeys when all

655
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: of a sudden, hen sparks up like too close for comfort,

656
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 1: to the point where we're like we we just have

657
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: to sit down, Like we can't move around anymore now,

658
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,919
Speaker 1: and now we're risk at busting the flock, so we'll

659
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 1: just sit down and kind of see what happens. And

660
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: we're sitting on sort of one side of a a

661
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: gully kind of drainage feature that's on the side of

662
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 1: this mountain and opposite of us as a slope that's

663
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: kind of face enough, and this drainage goes up to

664
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: our left and it actually kind of benches out and

665
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 1: that's where these turkeys are. We're sitting there for a while,

666
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: and I call a little bit out him at the flock,

667
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: and you know, the flocks is hammering every time I call,

668
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: but I knew that it wasn't gonna happen. Like they

669
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: were just happy to be gobbling at me, but they

670
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: wasn't really feeling real confident that one was going to

671
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: break off and just come check me out. Like I

672
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: could hear a bunch of hands and they're going off.

673
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: They had what they needed. So eventually I'm like, oh,

674
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna shut up and hopefully they'll just fade

675
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: away and then we can swoop around and you know,

676
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: going for another setup. And it's been maybe ten or

677
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes and they're all still there, the hands still

678
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 1: clucking away and uh down to my right in this

679
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: gully and again like four or five sometimes even six

680
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: ft of of all kinds of thick understory type brush

681
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: from seth um can you do sound effects? Yeah? Okay,

682
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 1: sound effects? Ah well, he's got to fill in some

683
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: goggles right now. Okay, okay, that's pretty good. Now you'll

684
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: you'll you'll get your cues all right. Yeah, there's a hand,

685
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: the hand that we've been listening to. She's doing like

686
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: a Um, it's one of those where you think it's

687
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,439
Speaker 1: like it's like a like between a cluck and a putt,

688
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: but very soft. Yeah, but like fifty times in a row,

689
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: you get busy. There's five she's she's a yakking. Um. Anyways,

690
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: we're sitting there. It's the turkeys are still kind of going,

691
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: but we've been quiet for a while, and uh, I'm

692
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: just leaving. I'm leaning kind of the shadow of of

693
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: a great big I don't know, if of a spruce

694
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: or a fir tree something like that. It must have

695
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: been two or three ft wide, and uh, down this

696
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: gully kind of off to my right, I hear and

697
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: I wish I just could remember it better because it's

698
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: like maybe the most exciting part of the whole story.

699
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 1: But it's like it's it's in my mind. It registers

700
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 1: as air coming out of an animal's mouth. Very well.

701
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: Could have been just that might have been a touch

702
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: more gir or growl, yeah, something like that. That's the

703
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 1: last thing I want to hear when I'm out. I

704
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 1: feel like I'm there. I just started shooting off in

705
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: that direction. Right after that. I can hear footsteps like that.

706
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: Well they're soft, like yeah, but a little bit of

707
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: like crunching of pine needles and and and you know

708
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 1: the detritus. I'm getting the mood now, yeah, do all

709
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 1: my work for me, said, I tell Zack. I'm like, dude,

710
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: get your camera ready, because he had been you know,

711
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: running the camera a little bit since he wasn't carrying

712
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: a shotgun, since he was tagged out and still talking

713
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: or no, yeah, they're all They're all still up there,

714
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 1: yakking away in a gobble every now your attention isn't

715
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: focused entirely different directions. At this point, I'm looking down

716
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: the hill and uh, says that, get your phone out.

717
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: I think there's a bear coming up the coming up

718
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: the draw. And the only reason I said bears because

719
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: just like that's sort of what I'm expecting in like

720
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 1: this landscape, um, and something that could hear footsteps, so well,

721
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: I figured, you know, bear. And a second later, I'm like,

722
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 1: oh no, it's tam I'm like, it's just a deer

723
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: zacht you know, video it anyways, you know it's gonna

724
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: walk great bias. I'm like, deer's got a tail, it's

725
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: a mountain lion. And uh, immediately you know acts like

726
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: holy shit, you know, and there's actually two mountain lions

727
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 1: that we can see at first, and they're smaller, so

728
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: this is all again happening fast. And as they take

729
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: a few more stuff, yeah yeah, yeah, I'm guessing there

730
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: at least a year old pounds um fifteen yards ish. Yeah, yeah,

731
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: pretty close. And they as soon as they sort of

732
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: like we're kind of talking and maybe moving our heads

733
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: a little bit, and you know, full cam, we've got

734
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: our face max on and they immediately catch our movement

735
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 1: and the one first just sort of snarls and growls

736
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: at us. The lead. Now, yeah, then it's a little

737
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: Then it's sibling turns and does ninety degrees. So instead

738
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 1: of going up, this draw turns ninety degrees and takes

739
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: like three or four steps and like a low crouch

740
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: slinking towards you, you know shape, and then kind of

741
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 1: then stops and does the same thing. And it's like

742
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: realizing that, like, oh, I thought you were like the turkey.

743
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,439
Speaker 1: I was about too, that I'm hunting that I might

744
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: pounce on it, But now I'm realizing you're not, and

745
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: I'm kind of pissed about it. This is what I

746
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,400
Speaker 1: was reading from its snarl, So it's snarls too. And

747
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: then at that point I'm like, all right, um, that's

748
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,320
Speaker 1: enough of that. And you know, I then took my

749
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: shotgun from my lap and I pointed at it, and

750
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,799
Speaker 1: that movement was enough to spook it, and then it's

751
00:45:54,800 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 1: sibling spooked, and then mama spooked off too. But uh yeah,

752
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 1: pretty neat little wildlife encounter. That's good fun man, that's cool.

753
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: Get your get your get your heart bumping. For the

754
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 1: sake of the story, I was hoping you'd have like

755
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: a tugboat go by, or like Christopher walking show up,

756
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: so would really just challenge Seth. I was walking apart

757
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: for Seth. You know what did keep the gobblers goblin though,

758
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: was the Canada geese that kept flying up and down

759
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: the river. Oh I can't good work boys. Unfortunately, they

760
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: spooked towards the flock of turkeys and we did not

761
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: hear another Oh that shut him up pretty good. Oh

762
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: there was no clucking, no yelping, no goblin. And we

763
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: hiked around that mountain for another thirty minutes and they

764
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 1: were going just disappeared. That means it's time to be quiet.

765
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: When myline runs by, they're out, you know, you're all

766
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: was great stories about people getting you know, their hats

767
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: taken off top of their head from Bob Cats and

768
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: lines and stuff when they're hunting turkeys. Yeah, yeah, when

769
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: they're when one stocking at Yet you're not like this

770
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,439
Speaker 1: is a good opportunity to maybe get a real close,

771
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: even closer encounter with the mountline. Yeah. I had a

772
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: good segue earlier, if you remember, I took it from

773
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:33,439
Speaker 1: like really seamlessly from Sue vied to meet scientists. This guy,

774
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: there's a doctor that wrote us in, wrote into us.

775
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: I don't know how he pronounces his name, Mark slab

776
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: a empty slawba slab. I don't know yea Mark slab

777
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: a mpt slab. Very articulate man. He wrote in with

778
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,879
Speaker 1: a segway of his own. He said, there's a there's

779
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: a recognizing it as a transition between desparate subjects. But

780
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: he was tying together two things we were talking about

781
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: that we didn't make a link. On one. We did

782
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: an episode where we discussed in what he calls excellent detail,

783
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,760
Speaker 1: the implications of lead poisoning on both wildlife and humans.

784
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:17,240
Speaker 1: Was referring to as a discussion we had about um

785
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: it is a well known fact. What you do with

786
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 1: this fact is up to you, But it is a

787
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: well known fact that lead from bullet fragments in carcasses

788
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: has the potential can lead to raptor death. UM. And

789
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: that lad shot on the landscape UH used to lead

790
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: to waterfowl death. Now, whether it's you know, the debate

791
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: is lots of things that all the time, we're not

792
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 1: talking about population. We are are not talking about population

793
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: level impact. Cars killed wildlife, windmills kill wildlife, fences killed wildlife. UM,

794
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 1: the windows in your house kill wildlife. And yes, bullets

795
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: killed wildlife? What you do with that? Um? Like we

796
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 1: kind of got an all that right, and then we

797
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: talked about how they're just as not. In my view,

798
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: and I've read more than most, there's no convincing evidence, um,

799
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:18,399
Speaker 1: that that hunters are the wild game diet is giving

800
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: you elevated levels of lead like, no one's proven this

801
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 1: in fact, I think you know, when you look at it,

802
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: people are gonna have a fit when I say this,

803
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: But you know, you look at like urban like people

804
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: that live in in very urban environments often have higher

805
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 1: levels of lead than people who live in rural environments

806
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,120
Speaker 1: but eat nothing but wild game because you have lead

807
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: from one Uh, you have all the lead and soil

808
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: from leaded fuel, lead paints. There's a lot of lead

809
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: out there, and so it's hard to say conclusively like

810
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and people need a lot of that, dear meat,

811
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: have more because there's other factors such as like where

812
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: you live, that are more profound than what you might

813
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: Let's making sense to Crins nodding, Yeah, I mean I

814
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,439
Speaker 1: grew up in a city who knows, who knows? Right,

815
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 1: I can see the lead blee now your eyeballs right now? Uh,

816
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: goes on to say this. He goes on to say that, Um,

817
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,439
Speaker 1: the connection he founds. We later we're talking to our guest,

818
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: Preston Pittman, who's been shot twice hunting turkeys, and he

819
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: points out to say that like in the medical profession,

820
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 1: you despite all the Westerns you watch, in the medical profession,

821
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 1: they are not eager to dig pellets and bullets and

822
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 1: stuff out of people. You remove the pellet or bullet

823
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: if it's location is like of immediate concern, it's safer

824
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,280
Speaker 1: to leave it in there then it is to drag

825
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 1: it out of there. Um, Jim Bridger, I'll point out

826
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: carried a uh. I think it was a steel broadhead.

827
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 1: I can remember the steeler flint in his shoulder blade

828
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: for two years before a guy dug it out. And

829
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: I think the guy that dug it out was the

830
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:03,239
Speaker 1: He was like part of the Whipman massacre and dug

831
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: it out. And some people say it was like the

832
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: first official surgery, like the first Western style euro European

833
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 1: style surgery to occur in the American wessels, when you know,

834
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 1: like performed by a doctor. When Bridger had this thing

835
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: yank cut out of his shoulder blade, but you generally

836
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 1: leave him in there. But he does say folks who

837
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 1: have retained bullet fragments should be aware that lead toxicity

838
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: can occur over a long period of time and blood

839
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: levels can be monitored if they are aware of the risk.

840
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: It is not an immediate thing. You can have a

841
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: bunch of shotgun pellets in you in a long time

842
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,879
Speaker 1: could go by and all of a sudden you start

843
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 1: to develop lead issues from carrying not in your stomach,

844
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 1: not words in your digestion track where it's like slowly

845
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: dissolving and your muscle can lead to trouble. So if

846
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: you're carrying around a bunch of ammo. Consider that, and

847
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 1: plenty of people are man. I was surprised by this.

848
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: Gunshot wounds and estimated hundred and fifteen thousand injuries in

849
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:14,720
Speaker 1: the United States per year or non fatal bullet removed.

850
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: He goes on to say bullet removal is not routinely

851
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 1: indicated for victims of gunshot injuries with retained bullet fragments,

852
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: which are called rbfs, unless it could be caused immediate

853
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 1: morbidity damn. So Robert Apernathy and uh Press and Pittman

854
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 1: should both get there checked periodic lead checking. Are you

855
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 1: not carrying around a babe from you were a kid? No? Well,

856
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 1: I thought you were. Oh. Mark also says this, says,

857
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 1: my personal experience with this comes as an ophthalmologist removing

858
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: shotgun pellets from the face and orbits of trauma patients,

859
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,280
Speaker 1: I would say, most commonly after being shotgun during drug deals.

860
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 1: He says that my hope is that the average outdoorsman

861
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: is better at seeking good follow up care than those individuals.

862
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: So maybe this will be useful information. I think, well,

863
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 1: that Johnny, very useful information. Here's another one. This is

864
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: really interesting, Guy Rode in it used to guide um

865
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 1: he does remote maybe does did does remote white water

866
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: canoe trips like extended whitewater canoe trips. And he says

867
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: this isn't well known, but it's like known. But on

868
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: a on a river in Canada's Northwest territories called the

869
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 1: South Nahani River, there is a cave that holds the

870
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 1: full skeleton full skeletons of over one hundred dollar sheep

871
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: that accumulated there from two thousand years ago to about

872
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:58,760
Speaker 1: two hundred years ago. And it's a The cave entrance

873
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: is downward sloping. All the sheep or at the bottom

874
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: of the slope. The plausible theory is that that slope

875
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,919
Speaker 1: would become icy and the sheep could make their way

876
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: down in they'd walk down into the cave, but then

877
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 1: not be able to ascend the icy slope. And he said,

878
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: laying on the top of those one dollar sheep skeletons

879
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: when he was there is a porcupine dead on top

880
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: of them. He said, look like he was up there

881
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 1: feeding on them. All. That reminds me. You know, that's

882
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: such a long period of time, right, So you have

883
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 1: a hundred sheep that died over potentially eight hundred years.

884
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: When I was at the I went to my first

885
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: date with my wife. We went to the Librea tar

886
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 1: pits in l A. And um, we're kind of like,

887
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 1: neither of us was from there, but we went there. Um,

888
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: and it's a whole long story. I was living an anchorage,

889
00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: she was living. She was there for work, and I

890
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 1: went down. We went to libraa tar pits and and

891
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: there they have you know, they have they have a

892
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: display I think of a hundred and seventy dire wolf

893
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 1: skulls that came out of those pits, many short like,

894
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 1: many short faced bears, many mammoths, dozens and dozens of um,

895
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: ancient bison forms, everything, giant ground sloss, everything just died

896
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 1: in Librea tar pits. And when you look at when

897
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: you read these numbers, by all this stuff that accumulating

898
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 1: these tar pits, which is like a downtown Los Angeles,

899
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 1: you think that you'd go there and just be like

900
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 1: man like dead stuff everywhere, like had you gone there

901
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: a long time ago. But they're saying one occurrence every

902
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: I think I might get this wrong, but it's something

903
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 1: like this, one occurrence every forty years would have accounted

904
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: for everything in there in occurrence being this baby mammoth

905
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: um get stuck in the tar. Okay, a sabertooth cat

906
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: goes out to scavenge it, he gets stuck in the tar.

907
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: Some vultures go to eat on them and they get

908
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 1: stuck in the tar. And then nothing needs to happen

909
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:02,200
Speaker 1: for forty years. And you let that go for like

910
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of years, and you wind up with

911
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 1: where you dig down a guitar pit and it's whatever,

912
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 1: fifty feet of packed bone. But it's not like you know,

913
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: it's just like now and then now and then. So yeah,

914
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:17,359
Speaker 1: once every couple hundred years a doll sheep falls into

915
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: this cave. But then you go there and it looks

916
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: like holy ship. Yeah. I don't know if you guys

917
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 1: remember a long time ago we had on a guest

918
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: who he was an anthropologist. Um Matt that Hell's that

919
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 1: guy's name? Really interesting. He was an anthropologist who um,

920
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: among other things, like, he would look for you know,

921
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:44,240
Speaker 1: lithic remains from up and up and high mountain passes

922
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: and stuff. You look for lithic remains of ice age

923
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 1: hunters and other things, not melts or but another another

924
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 1: anthropologist anyhow, he was explained to us that when you're

925
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 1: trying to interpret ancient kill sites, people look at the

926
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: bones and people make wild extrapolations about people make wild

927
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: extrapolations like, oh, the skull was upside down. It must

928
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 1: have been ceremonial, you know, and you're saying, man, you

929
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,840
Speaker 1: don't know. And one of these he was explaining is

930
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 1: we'll just take uh dear and put it in order

931
00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:20,080
Speaker 1: to staying like how to interpret bone dispersal, bone decay,

932
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: you know, in order to interpret ancient archaeological sites, they'll

933
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: just lay a deer out in the woods and then

934
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: monitor it day to day to see like what what

935
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: what do we see happens? You know, how far do

936
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: the bones go, what happens all the bones? Why, how

937
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: does the school get flipped over or whatever, and just

938
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: to kind of get a better sense. So when you're

939
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: deconstructing a ancient kill site, you kind of can recognize

940
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 1: what's normal was not normal, and there's this this thing

941
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 1: happened back in that we're looking at and thinking about.

942
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: Is they were doing it with human remains as is

943
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: sort of what's the word I'm looking for? Forensic? Yea

944
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: forensic like forensic pathology, or something. He's like body farms

945
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: for you know, if I don't know, if you discover

946
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: someone who's you know, you uncover like a skeleton, rates

947
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: of decay, like how long has it been there? What

948
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: happened to this body? Like? And uh, John McPhee once

949
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 1: wrote a piece about forensic entomology where how how investigators

950
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: can use the rate at which like larva and stuff

951
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: develops on on human remains to get a sense of

952
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: time of death on crime stein investigations. So anyways, they're

953
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: doing this thing years ago and they had all these

954
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:41,479
Speaker 1: that they had human bones laid out in the woods

955
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: to see what happens to and they had a camera

956
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: on it, and we're surprised to see, uh deer. Deer

957
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: would come up and gnaw the bones. So there's there's

958
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: this footage of a deer chewing up a human rib bone. Yeah,

959
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 1: it's just like hanging out of its mouth a cigar.

960
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 1: And it talks about how um according to study, like

961
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: unguluts off and chew on bones. Now usually we see

962
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 1: these chewed up bones and I was like, oh, it's porcupines,

963
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: it's mice. Whatever the hell. Unguluts chew on bones and

964
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 1: they prefer dry bones with a rectangular cross cut. But

965
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: this is the first instance ever deer chewing on a

966
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 1: human bone. But I guess it is interesting thing of

967
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 1: um when you like when they eat weird stuff and sething.

968
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: I were just talking a minute ago about it was

969
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 1: some years ago. It was a really famous trail cam image.

970
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 1: There's a white tailed doll coming through the woods and

971
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: stops and starts eating nestlings, eating, but I think they're Robbins.

972
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: Starts eating nestlings out of a nest, plucks one out

973
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:48,280
Speaker 1: and eats it, which really makes you think differently about

974
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: your deer meat. That does me man, Like we had

975
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: that turkey the are day with that giant slug in

976
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: his crop. I thought different to that turkey after that, really,

977
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 1: I thought different of them. Like Robert was saying about

978
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: that turkey kill with all those green and oles, thirteen

979
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: green and oles in it. What's a green and all

980
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: thirteen of him? Wasn't it thirteen? Yeah? I'm making that up. No,

981
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: that's right, he's having a feast. Oh yeah. I would

982
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 1: have been like, yeah, I'd still eat him. I'd be

983
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: a little bit like but would you. I'd rather be

984
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 1: like like flowers grains baker. Yeah, but like you eat

985
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: stuff like would you eat like a deep fried annal?

986
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 1: I haven't, but listen, I'd eat it. I just would

987
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: think differently of it. I think differently if I opened

988
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: up a bear, black bear, and I found that he

989
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: had a bunch of people meet in it, I would

990
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 1: think differently of the bear. Mean, yeah, okay, anyhow, go ahead,

991
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: seth um, tell him more about what we're talking about.

992
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 1: There's a guy from Montana that rode in and said

993
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 1: that he shot a starling with an air rifle. Was

994
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: it my kid? There's there's a few questions I have

995
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: about this. I think this must have been my kid

996
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 1: that wrote in he shot he shot a starling with

997
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,959
Speaker 1: an air rifle. One winner under a crab apple tree

998
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:18,800
Speaker 1: in his neighbor's yard. So he's shooting over into his

999
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 1: neighbor's yard. Sounds like your boy again, this is my boy.

1000
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 1: Whitetail deer came in to the yard to eat crab

1001
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: apples and found the startling that he shot. Um deer

1002
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: picked it up in his mouth and appeared to be

1003
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 1: chewing on it. That night, he recovered the starling from

1004
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 1: his from his neighbor's yard. Like under the cover of darkness,

1005
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: presumably another question I have. Yeah, so he went over there.

1006
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 1: I'm guessing it dark wuntil it gets good and dark. Yeah,

1007
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 1: hopefully they're friends. And I saw that the head of

1008
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 1: the starling was gone. The deer had eating it. Hm.

1009
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,080
Speaker 1: And I mean you go on YouTube and google deer

1010
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 1: eating birds. It's just there's no shortage of videos um

1011
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 1: of deer eating birds on their God, that's unusual, man. Yeah,

1012
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: it's like, what, well, maybe it isn't. That's what I

1013
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 1: was saying, unusual seeming because by what mechanism like when

1014
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: you look at their dental structure, it's just it's hard

1015
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 1: to you know. And maybe I was saying the spencer earlier,

1016
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 1: maybe dear a little more opportunists to geters and what

1017
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 1: we think as far as like eating meat. Uh. Our

1018
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: next guest though, one am. I remember a long time

1019
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:39,880
Speaker 1: ago I was saying that the only thing that should

1020
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: be allowed to be on Instagram is um wild Turkey Doc.

1021
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 1: Like Instagram should just be that you download the app

1022
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 1: and you open it up in his wild Turkey Doc.

1023
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: And that's what Instagram is like. No one else should

1024
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 1: be allowed to be on there. If there was public

1025
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: outcry and people like there has to be one more

1026
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 1: Instagram page. I'll be like, okay, Nature's Metal, Um, we

1027
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: will allow Nature's Metal. It'll be that, It'll be Wild

1028
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 1: Turkey Doc. They can take turns, but Nature's Medals more

1029
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: is far more prolific than Wild Turkey Doc. It's my favorite,

1030
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 1: favorite favorite Instagram page. And what brings this full circle

1031
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 1: is that there was recently a video of a of

1032
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:29,520
Speaker 1: a young elk eating a gosling for you, For you

1033
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 1: folks that I'm sure if you're sitting there on your

1034
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: phone right now, you gotta go, like go to Nature's Medal. Um.

1035
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:39,720
Speaker 1: It is sometimes it's like I have strong it's sometimes

1036
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: too much for me. It is predominantly um our. Next

1037
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,640
Speaker 1: guest Rick, who started and runs Nature's Metal, can explain,

1038
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 1: but it's predominantly I would like, there's a human element now,

1039
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 1: like once in a great while there is sort of

1040
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: like a human element, like there's like humans enter the

1041
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: scene on Nature's Medal now and then, but generally it's wildlife.

1042
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 1: It's like wildlife on wildlife of just some of the

1043
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 1: most like graphic reminders of I don't want to say

1044
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 1: brutality because that has a moral that sounds like moral

1045
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 1: common name graphic reminders of reality, yeah, of predation, of

1046
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 1: what goes into being alive, of the just giving of

1047
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: zero as about the well being of your prey in

1048
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 1: the animal world. Just I'm doing a horrible job, a

1049
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 1: truer documentation of the circle of life more than oftentimes

1050
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 1: I wasna saying, like I have a pretty strong something

1051
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 1: oftentimes is more than I care to see, more than

1052
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: I care to see. And you'll see when you go

1053
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: on there that it has a very next to if

1054
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 1: like um, like uh, I don't know, like a port

1055
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: of graphic Instagram page. It has more censored tabs than

1056
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 1: anything I follow, not that I followed that didn't come

1057
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:13,560
Speaker 1: out right. I'm guessing there are no corner I don't

1058
01:05:13,560 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 1: know what I mean. You know, there's no extent to

1059
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 1: the Internet. There's no end to it. But I don't

1060
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 1: know about anything like that on Instagram. But if there was,

1061
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,200
Speaker 1: you can imagine it would be highly censored, is what

1062
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 1: I'm getting at. And this has a there's a lot

1063
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 1: of like what do you call it, like vie were discretion,

1064
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 1: You're a discretion, You're discretion and you think but it's

1065
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 1: just animals. It's like, how is it sensitive? You think

1066
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 1: that it's animals doing things to animals? Why is that?

1067
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,240
Speaker 1: Why is that sensitive? That's like the six or four

1068
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:41,920
Speaker 1: thou dollar question. I think it begs that question, why

1069
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 1: are we censoring? It's like I don't know what animals

1070
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: could do? Bad things? Yep, huh. So we're joined by Rick,

1071
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: who is the founder brains behind I'm guessing daily the

1072
01:05:55,480 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 1: Daily Touch, the curator at nature is at Thanks for

1073
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 1: joining us, Rick, Yeah, thanks for having me. How do

1074
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 1: you why? Like why and how did this become a

1075
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,000
Speaker 1: thing that how did this become like your life's calling

1076
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 1: here to to find this stuff and put it out

1077
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: there for the public. So when I was a kid,

1078
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 1: I couldn't get enough of those shows, like all the

1079
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 1: nat GEO stuff anything on PBS. But they would always

1080
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 1: cut like it would show the chase, and then it

1081
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: would never show like what happens, Like oh they just

1082
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 1: did they become friends and you know you never see

1083
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 1: them again, like or what happens and you never see

1084
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 1: like what really, there's nothing nice about what's happening. So yeah,

1085
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 1: they would cut to the feeding. There's a chase and

1086
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:53,200
Speaker 1: it's unresolved. But then like later there feeding like what

1087
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 1: but there's like a chapter missing. Yeah, totally right, So

1088
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:02,920
Speaker 1: that that was part of it. That's definitely part of

1089
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 1: what we wanted to showcase the entire story. I feel

1090
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 1: in my bones that it is disingenuous and a disservice

1091
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 1: to animals and the animal kingdom in general that people

1092
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,560
Speaker 1: don't show this stuff. But we also like try and

1093
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 1: stay away from certain things, Like I get a lot

1094
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 1: of submissions about like things that I cannot show on

1095
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 1: Instagram that will get me kicked off, and that's those

1096
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 1: are things that we learned from the other accounts getting

1097
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 1: taken down and stuff. Are you allowed to give us

1098
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 1: an example of something? There's one. There's one that I

1099
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: get sent every couple of weeks of a crocodile somewhere

1100
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:48,680
Speaker 1: in Africa with human remains in its mouth, swimming down

1101
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 1: like a river or something. But like it's the guy's

1102
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:55,800
Speaker 1: head and arms sticking out of the crocodile's mouth. It's

1103
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 1: just something I can't I can't show that. Man, the

1104
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 1: account is has reached the point where I would like

1105
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 1: to keep it as I can. Yeah, how many followers

1106
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 1: do you currently have on your account? It's insane. That's

1107
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,800
Speaker 1: around three million, three point one. I think it's above that.

1108
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:16,080
Speaker 1: I see Crean's notes that she has that you. So

1109
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: you have a long relationship with with photography too, because

1110
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:23,640
Speaker 1: I didn't know this about you. You were metal band photographer.

1111
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:27,439
Speaker 1: I was in metal bands for a long time, like

1112
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 1: for twelve years of my life. While I was doing

1113
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:31,920
Speaker 1: this account, it was like my my I would do

1114
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 1: my day job. I'd be a rehearsal for three hours,

1115
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:38,800
Speaker 1: and then I'd go home and try and figure out

1116
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 1: what I was gonna post tomorrow or something. And at

1117
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 1: the same time as I was doing all that, I've

1118
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,599
Speaker 1: met all these other musicians and I would just show

1119
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,040
Speaker 1: up to their shows end up taking pictures, and then

1120
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 1: I bought a camera so i'd have something better than

1121
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: cell phone photos, and then it progressed from there. That's

1122
01:08:57,360 --> 01:08:59,720
Speaker 1: also where the name comes from. To the music that

1123
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: I like is metal. It's always gonna be that until

1124
01:09:03,320 --> 01:09:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm ninety years old. It will be metal. I don't

1125
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:12,679
Speaker 1: want to miss you. Usually when people say that something's ironic,

1126
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:15,839
Speaker 1: it's not. So I'm trying to think this is actually ironic,

1127
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:20,559
Speaker 1: but I don't know. Someone listen, listen to my sentence

1128
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:21,960
Speaker 1: and tell me you think this is ironic or not.

1129
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 1: You were inspired originally by what you felt were omissions

1130
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: in the sort of nat geo ish where I'm using

1131
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:32,920
Speaker 1: this as a sort of like a like a placeholder

1132
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,840
Speaker 1: for you know, high end nature documentary that nat Geo

1133
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,800
Speaker 1: was leaving out part of the story, and you were

1134
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 1: filling in those blanks. But now you get this is

1135
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 1: an ironic. Now you get material from the people who

1136
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 1: are capturing that material, and they're giving you the stuff

1137
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 1: that like, they won't let me use this. Uh it's

1138
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 1: too graphic for my outlet, it's too graphic for the

1139
01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 1: media place I work with. It has to be out there.

1140
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:02,759
Speaker 1: I'll send to this guy. I don't know it was ironic,

1141
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:06,760
Speaker 1: you know what. That's That's a great point. There's not

1142
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: a lot of things that we won't show, but it's

1143
01:10:10,240 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 1: there are things that we can't. I understand why Nagial

1144
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:19,840
Speaker 1: kind of censors themselves. Not everybody's into that graphics stuff.

1145
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 1: My limits are not their limits. My limits are like

1146
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:28,639
Speaker 1: human humans being killed by some animal. That's my limit.

1147
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 1: I'm not showing that. Uh Rick, What was the most

1148
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 1: impactful post you've ever shared on Instagram. The first one

1149
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan reposted it was a woodpecker drilling its beak

1150
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: into these baby doves, like just hammering it right into them.

1151
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: Really got a very nice post. You never saw that

1152
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 1: one still up on the page. It's right at the bottom.

1153
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 1: It was the first one that Rogan went crazy. He

1154
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 1: went he went nuts. He reposted on his Instagram. The

1155
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 1: account went crazy then, right and I thought it was over.

1156
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 1: I thought, I was like, that's really cool. I'm really

1157
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:12,839
Speaker 1: happy that happened. But then he goes on his podcast

1158
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:14,880
Speaker 1: a couple of days later and starts talking about it,

1159
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 1: and then it really went crazy. So from there, that's

1160
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,559
Speaker 1: that's where we got our all of our traction came from.

1161
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 1: That one post elevated the account to where it is now. Basically,

1162
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:29,760
Speaker 1: while Steve is trying to find that I'm watching it

1163
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:34,639
Speaker 1: right now. It's too much for me. That's brutal. Yeah,

1164
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:37,640
Speaker 1: it's too much for me. Describe what you're seeing or

1165
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 1: what you can't stomach. What species is that? My Initially,

1166
01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 1: I mean it's a it's a woodpecker species. It's in

1167
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:48,759
Speaker 1: a cactus, so it's down south. He's got a bird

1168
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:56,080
Speaker 1: nest in a cactus and it's just just gradually like

1169
01:11:56,280 --> 01:12:01,920
Speaker 1: like very aggressively woodpeckering a baby bird. It's not dying quickly,

1170
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:09,280
Speaker 1: and it's also consuming head matter as it just Yeah,

1171
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 1: it's a bit much. Not not in a bad way,

1172
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: not in a bad way. I just I wouldn't show

1173
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:21,639
Speaker 1: my kids, Yea. I wouldn't expect anybody to. I share

1174
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 1: some of your posts with my kids, but I don't

1175
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 1: let them do is then just start cruising around looking.

1176
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:30,000
Speaker 1: I like share them like here's a thing and then

1177
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 1: this is over. Does everybody understand, like we're gonna look

1178
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 1: at this and that's it, and we look and we

1179
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:39,560
Speaker 1: go away. You know that's understandable. Man, Who are some

1180
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:41,800
Speaker 1: famous followers that you have? Like, do you have a

1181
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 1: list celebrities that interact with the account? The most famous,

1182
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:48,800
Speaker 1: I would say the woman, the person with the most

1183
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:54,800
Speaker 1: followers that interacts with us. Well, Connor McGregor has interacted

1184
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:58,000
Speaker 1: with us more than one time, like comments wise that

1185
01:12:58,080 --> 01:13:00,160
Speaker 1: we have, like some comments back and forth, what ever,

1186
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 1: just like fun things. It's just crazy to be talking

1187
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:06,760
Speaker 1: to someone like that. But the guy with the most

1188
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 1: followers that follows us has to be Bieber. It's gotta

1189
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 1: be Justin Biebers. The most surprising one of all of

1190
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 1: them is him, and he's actually reposted us before, which

1191
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 1: is like the craziest thing. Nature's Metal was on BuzzFeed

1192
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:28,720
Speaker 1: because of Justin Bieber because he got in trouble for

1193
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:31,720
Speaker 1: it because he posted on them with a tire with

1194
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:35,920
Speaker 1: a monkey in its mouth and he shared it. What

1195
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 1: the fund you doing? Justin's that Canadian connection you guys have.

1196
01:13:42,439 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 1: What is your attitude towards fake images? And have you

1197
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:49,280
Speaker 1: ever been duped? Yeah, and in the beginning we were.

1198
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:53,640
Speaker 1: Now my eye has gotten a lot better, but it

1199
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:55,479
Speaker 1: happened a couple of times. I'm not gonna say all

1200
01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:58,240
Speaker 1: of them were, but one I remember for sure is, um,

1201
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 1: these walls are trying to take down this bison, and

1202
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 1: the bison hit the wolf sent it flying right. I

1203
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 1: was like, well, that's really cool photo. Totally fake. Oh yeah,

1204
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:12,080
Speaker 1: I wanted it to be real. I posted it like

1205
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:14,479
Speaker 1: it was real, and it was a couple of years ago.

1206
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 1: It's not on our account anymore, but I had a

1207
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:20,679
Speaker 1: couple of people that I message now to verify photos.

1208
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 1: Is this even possible? Because it damages our integrity by

1209
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: posting something that isn't true, and that's the last thing

1210
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:31,519
Speaker 1: I want to do is post something that's fake. I

1211
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:34,120
Speaker 1: actually got called out a couple of months ago because

1212
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:37,640
Speaker 1: there's a photographer this notorious for staging his photos, Like

1213
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 1: he'll send he'll put a mouse on like a branch

1214
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 1: of a tree and just like basically feed a wild

1215
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:48,400
Speaker 1: snake and just start taking photos of it. They have

1216
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 1: been caught doing this. He's been caught doing this a lot,

1217
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:55,280
Speaker 1: but sometimes they sneak through. Now I know the guy's name,

1218
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:57,599
Speaker 1: so I just make sure I don't post anything by him,

1219
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 1: because you can't. I don't know if they're true or not,

1220
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 1: but I just try and do my due diligence. You

1221
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:09,599
Speaker 1: know a thing I often think about, um when when

1222
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 1: someone's in the business of soul shoulder the business of video,

1223
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:20,840
Speaker 1: and they're very existence relies strictly on like an outside

1224
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:25,800
Speaker 1: streaming or an outside video platform that's that's user generated.

1225
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,880
Speaker 1: So we always talk about YouTubers, right, like, if you're

1226
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:32,799
Speaker 1: a YouTuber and strictly a YouTuber, you're one policy decision

1227
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:39,200
Speaker 1: away at YouTube from going extinct. And when you've built,

1228
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:42,439
Speaker 1: like when you've done the work it takes and built

1229
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:46,920
Speaker 1: this massive audience to consume something. You're still operating on

1230
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 1: a platform where you don't even have a seat at

1231
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,120
Speaker 1: the table, right, Like, there's probably not even a courtesy

1232
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 1: call the day that you get shut down. But have

1233
01:15:56,400 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 1: you gotten to a point now where you have a

1234
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:00,800
Speaker 1: diet that you're able to have a dialogue with the platform?

1235
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 1: Are you just sitting back trying to like figure out

1236
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:06,400
Speaker 1: what they think and what their requirements are and you're

1237
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:08,719
Speaker 1: operating in the dark as the how to like walk

1238
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:12,679
Speaker 1: this razor's edge of compelling but not like to compelling.

1239
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:17,640
Speaker 1: There is no communication with Facebook. Remember the monolith in

1240
01:16:17,720 --> 01:16:21,680
Speaker 1: two thousand one Space Odyssey. It's like trying to talk

1241
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 1: to that thing. They just exist. They just exist on

1242
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 1: their own and you don't get you don't get to

1243
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:31,840
Speaker 1: speak to them. So to answer that question, it has

1244
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 1: gotten better, but it's still you're still like talking to

1245
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:41,240
Speaker 1: the black wall. You're right, the policy decision could sink

1246
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:46,479
Speaker 1: us tomorrow. We and we would have no warning and

1247
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:52,480
Speaker 1: no recourse. So we're just hoping that we can expand,

1248
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 1: like we're trying to expand to different platforms if that

1249
01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: ever happens. That could never could also never hop because

1250
01:17:00,880 --> 01:17:03,679
Speaker 1: there is all you said it earlier. Um, it's animals.

1251
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 1: These aren't These aren't malicious acts. These are animals doing

1252
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:12,080
Speaker 1: it to animals, And that's why we try and stay

1253
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:16,679
Speaker 1: away from humanity at all costs. Unless it's always wondered

1254
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:18,719
Speaker 1: about that, man, But I hadn't thought about that element

1255
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:20,720
Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, it gives you, like, it provides a

1256
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:24,880
Speaker 1: certain groundcover. Man. Yeah, it's vital that we stick to

1257
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 1: animals because if as soon as we start showing humans

1258
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:30,800
Speaker 1: getting hurt, that gives them grounds to at least in

1259
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:34,639
Speaker 1: my mind. But because we're so big, like, because we've

1260
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:38,599
Speaker 1: gotten to this point, we really have to watch where

1261
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:42,400
Speaker 1: we step to stay alive. What in your mind is

1262
01:17:42,479 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 1: the most compelling criticism of what you do? Like, what

1263
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:49,160
Speaker 1: is the criticism that you think like, oh, yeah, I

1264
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:52,200
Speaker 1: can see that there's something there. This actually wasn't a

1265
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:54,560
Speaker 1: criticism directed to me. It was directed at some It

1266
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:57,640
Speaker 1: was directed at a photographer that posted something that we

1267
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:01,600
Speaker 1: ended up using. His said, you're doing the animals of

1268
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:08,360
Speaker 1: this service by showing them act in these primal ways

1269
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:12,920
Speaker 1: because people would think that they were lesser. Me. Yeah,

1270
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:16,360
Speaker 1: I think that was his point. Um, I actually did

1271
01:18:16,479 --> 01:18:18,559
Speaker 1: read that comment, and I thought about it for a while,

1272
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:23,720
Speaker 1: and I'm not I'm not sure he's wrong, and I

1273
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:28,519
Speaker 1: won't say he's wrong, but what I am sure of

1274
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:34,800
Speaker 1: is not showing it kind of creates this like fantasy

1275
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:38,760
Speaker 1: world where they don't do that, and I that's the

1276
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:41,560
Speaker 1: one thing I don't want to do. Too much for

1277
01:18:41,680 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 1: one person is educational to someone else. They need to know.

1278
01:18:45,479 --> 01:18:47,640
Speaker 1: Some people just need to know these things. Do you

1279
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:50,360
Speaker 1: know that half of my audience did not I wouldn't

1280
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 1: say half a lot of them didn't know dear shed

1281
01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:57,320
Speaker 1: their rattlers every year. Mhm. They had no idea. That's

1282
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:00,840
Speaker 1: like so soft core compared to what we do, but

1283
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:05,680
Speaker 1: it's very people were riveted by did no idea. So

1284
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 1: things like that just extrapolate that to other things, like

1285
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:14,720
Speaker 1: you were talking about deer eating birds, squirrels do that.

1286
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:18,680
Speaker 1: There's so many ground animals that eat other animals that

1287
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:22,439
Speaker 1: just isn't shown. People need to know that. People need

1288
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:25,640
Speaker 1: to know that dead bodies in the wild. It's like

1289
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:30,480
Speaker 1: it's like it's like dropping McDonald's in like a schoolyard.

1290
01:19:31,080 --> 01:19:32,680
Speaker 1: How long do you think that's gonna last in the

1291
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:37,599
Speaker 1: school yard? Not long? That might be the worst analogy

1292
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:39,599
Speaker 1: I've ever come up with. No, I'm tracking though, man

1293
01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:43,880
Speaker 1: like it. What's the ideal predator for you to post to,

1294
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:48,320
Speaker 1: like guarantee engagement, like a shark, bear, croc lion, snake,

1295
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:53,400
Speaker 1: something else. Bears are up there, definitely. I feel like

1296
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 1: we we showcase lions a lot, so they don't get

1297
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:59,720
Speaker 1: the pop that they used to get. Tigers are big

1298
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:03,320
Speaker 1: because there's not a lot of tiger footage. It's hard

1299
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 1: to come by, and it's hard to come by, um

1300
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:08,080
Speaker 1: through the proper channels too, because you have we have

1301
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:10,519
Speaker 1: to ask permission for everything we post on our on

1302
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:14,920
Speaker 1: our page. Now, sharks for sure, but the highest one

1303
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:18,800
Speaker 1: seems to be like, bears are like rare stuff like um,

1304
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:24,719
Speaker 1: those uh, those Japanese hornets. Anytime we post anything about

1305
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:27,679
Speaker 1: those Japanese hornets, it goes through the roof. But they're

1306
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 1: very hard to come by. The footage is hard to

1307
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:32,679
Speaker 1: come by, So so your your audience is your audience

1308
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:35,160
Speaker 1: is educated enough at this point that no one they're

1309
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:38,760
Speaker 1: seeing something fresh. Oh yeah, there's people that have been

1310
01:20:38,800 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 1: following me from day one and I still get I

1311
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:43,439
Speaker 1: still get comments it's like, oh, that's the first time

1312
01:20:43,479 --> 01:20:46,840
Speaker 1: you've ever showed that at Wolverine footage is hard, very

1313
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:49,720
Speaker 1: hard to come by, which I would love to love

1314
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:52,320
Speaker 1: to show those animals, but there's not a lot of

1315
01:20:52,360 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 1: footage that exists of them. They're very reclusive of the

1316
01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 1: ship that you put on there. I would never see

1317
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:03,760
Speaker 1: in real life. Like it gives me like I can

1318
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:05,920
Speaker 1: go there to see things that actually happened that I

1319
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:09,400
Speaker 1: would never see, Like I I don't know some of

1320
01:21:09,439 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 1: that stuff I would see, and some of it I

1321
01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:16,840
Speaker 1: will see in the future. But like like a crocodile,

1322
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:21,880
Speaker 1: like killing an ana condor or something, I just don't

1323
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:25,519
Speaker 1: foresee myself every visually like visually seen that in real life.

1324
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:28,080
Speaker 1: But I can go to this page and see it. Yeah, well,

1325
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 1: I was thinking about it. It's like everybody wants to

1326
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:31,920
Speaker 1: be like, oh, it's too much for me. It's too

1327
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:36,439
Speaker 1: much for me. But if you booked yourself fancy ass

1328
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:40,640
Speaker 1: trips to Africa on a photo of Safari and you

1329
01:21:40,760 --> 01:21:43,040
Speaker 1: had two outcomes, you come home and be like it

1330
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:45,760
Speaker 1: was great, look at all these pictures of sunsets and

1331
01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:50,200
Speaker 1: these grazing antelope, and then uh, I even got a

1332
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 1: picture of a copulating pair of lions. I was wonderful

1333
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:58,360
Speaker 1: or you can be like, dude, I was at this

1334
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:01,400
Speaker 1: pond and that's the abro was there, and a croc

1335
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:04,240
Speaker 1: was there in a buffalo and they all started eating

1336
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:08,000
Speaker 1: each other and ripping each other apart, and holy ship, right,

1337
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:12,519
Speaker 1: like what what do you think the average person wants

1338
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 1: to come back from that trip saying that they experienced, Yeah,

1339
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:21,960
Speaker 1: the ladder. They want to see the crazy ship. You know,

1340
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:24,560
Speaker 1: if you see some pigeons on a rock wall, like

1341
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:27,439
Speaker 1: on a cliff face, and you see a right a

1342
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:31,880
Speaker 1: rafter paregrin flying overhead, you're kind of rooting for the

1343
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:33,800
Speaker 1: paragrin to come down to get one, because there's just

1344
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:37,400
Speaker 1: something to there's something that either wants to witness it.

1345
01:22:37,800 --> 01:22:39,560
Speaker 1: But one of the things that like, there's there's a

1346
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:41,519
Speaker 1: lot of reasons a lot of the photography on nature

1347
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:43,479
Speaker 1: is meant like the photography is wonderful, Like there's a

1348
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:44,800
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of it. I mean, some of

1349
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:46,760
Speaker 1: it's just like ad hoc Joe blow right, but a

1350
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:50,160
Speaker 1: lot of it's like skilled professionals taking amazing photos. So

1351
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:53,760
Speaker 1: does that which is great just good quality imagery. And

1352
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:55,120
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of other things I like about it.

1353
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:57,400
Speaker 1: But one of the things that might not be immediate,

1354
01:22:57,479 --> 01:23:01,960
Speaker 1: like might not be readily. Um, that might not readily

1355
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:04,280
Speaker 1: come to mind to people. Because I'm also interested in

1356
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:07,960
Speaker 1: the audience, like I'm I'm as interested in the audience

1357
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:10,639
Speaker 1: in the comments section is I am in the image,

1358
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:14,440
Speaker 1: because what I find so peculiar is how the audience

1359
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:19,560
Speaker 1: of nature is metal is so comfortable, even celebratory of

1360
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:22,719
Speaker 1: suffering in the animal world, depending on where the suffering

1361
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:30,040
Speaker 1: is coming from. It's like the most jovial, backslapping, happy,

1362
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:35,679
Speaker 1: making funny jokes about something that is an excruciating pain,

1363
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:39,799
Speaker 1: which is okay because the pain is caused by an animal.

1364
01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:43,240
Speaker 1: And you can only imagine if they were witnessing something

1365
01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:46,240
Speaker 1: that had a human hand in it, that joviality and

1366
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:49,719
Speaker 1: happiness and like, yeah, get them, tear them to pieces,

1367
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:53,800
Speaker 1: let's make funny captions that melts man. And I'm very

1368
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 1: curious in the human brain. Um, why one is so

1369
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:04,439
Speaker 1: fun for people and the other one is so distressing? Uh.

1370
01:24:04,720 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 1: And that's not something you're ever going to answer, but

1371
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:08,760
Speaker 1: I like to look at it and be like, why

1372
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:13,080
Speaker 1: do why does that make people happy? They just like

1373
01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:19,360
Speaker 1: that suffering if it's coming from the right place. That's funny,

1374
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:24,120
Speaker 1: and I don't get it. There is an answer to that,

1375
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:30,280
Speaker 1: I don't have it. But when you look at that

1376
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 1: happening to a human, you could put yourself in that

1377
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:36,439
Speaker 1: situation and be like, I don't want that to happen

1378
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 1: to me. But when it happens to an animal, it's like, wow,

1379
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:45,200
Speaker 1: if if if that thing didn't do that, it wouldn't

1380
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:48,479
Speaker 1: be eating, it would starve to death. That could I

1381
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:51,120
Speaker 1: don't know that could be the answer. It is a

1382
01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:53,600
Speaker 1: it is a hard question to answer. Actually, yeah, and

1383
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:56,800
Speaker 1: I don't I'm not posing this. I'm not posing this

1384
01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:59,400
Speaker 1: as any sort of condemnation of it because it's not

1385
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:02,599
Speaker 1: where it's And I think, and I'll say this about

1386
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:06,240
Speaker 1: I'll say this about Nature's metal, is that if you

1387
01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:09,840
Speaker 1: look at the totality, like the totality of the page,

1388
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:12,240
Speaker 1: not not just any image, but you look at the

1389
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:16,840
Speaker 1: totality of the page, I would argue that far and

1390
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:22,760
Speaker 1: away it is a celebration of wildlife. It celebrates like tenacity,

1391
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:28,040
Speaker 1: it celebrates a survival instinct, it celebrates strength, It celebrates

1392
01:25:28,160 --> 01:25:32,759
Speaker 1: diversity right like bio diversity. I think like in its whole,

1393
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:39,160
Speaker 1: it is a the animal kingdom is amazing. It is

1394
01:25:39,280 --> 01:25:42,880
Speaker 1: mind boggling, It is gorgeous, it is stunning. This is

1395
01:25:42,920 --> 01:25:45,600
Speaker 1: a celebration of the animal kingdom. I don't buy that

1396
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:48,760
Speaker 1: you would be a real serious like engage and have

1397
01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:52,040
Speaker 1: serious engagement with the page and come out somehow having

1398
01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:55,040
Speaker 1: a diminished I mean, someone could do this, but generally

1399
01:25:55,080 --> 01:25:58,080
Speaker 1: I think not have a diminished view of nature or

1400
01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:01,160
Speaker 1: have a thing where you think of animals would be

1401
01:26:01,240 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 1: more agreeable to animals going away because they do these

1402
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:06,640
Speaker 1: bad things to one another. Like, I don't think that

1403
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 1: that's what that's I don't think that's what that's teaching people.

1404
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:12,360
Speaker 1: I think it's like it is a in my mind,

1405
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:17,720
Speaker 1: like a very clear celebration of when what coming from

1406
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:21,840
Speaker 1: its creator is like a clear celebration of like holy cow, um,

1407
01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:26,960
Speaker 1: we live on a stunning planet with staggeringly beautiful things

1408
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:29,559
Speaker 1: happening on it. So I don't mean when I bring

1409
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:32,280
Speaker 1: up that, Yeah, when I bring up that idea about

1410
01:26:32,840 --> 01:26:37,479
Speaker 1: wondering about people, I'm really talking about audience. I'm not

1411
01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:41,719
Speaker 1: talking about the page. Yeah. At the end of the day,

1412
01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:45,200
Speaker 1: at its core, that is what nature is Metal is about.

1413
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:49,320
Speaker 1: The it's the respect for the wild and the animals

1414
01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:52,920
Speaker 1: that survive in it, that they figured out this way

1415
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:58,280
Speaker 1: of making their way through the world the only way

1416
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:03,280
Speaker 1: they know how. And we we we have houses and

1417
01:27:03,439 --> 01:27:06,080
Speaker 1: air conditioning and all this stuff to protect us from

1418
01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:09,840
Speaker 1: the outside when they live in it, and they they

1419
01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:14,320
Speaker 1: have to have kids and protect their kids, and it's

1420
01:27:14,439 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 1: just it's insane. It is absolutely insane to me that

1421
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:20,800
Speaker 1: anybody can look at that and not think that that

1422
01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:24,559
Speaker 1: is the most amazing thing in the world. It's it's

1423
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:28,760
Speaker 1: mind boggling how they even how we even came out

1424
01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:35,400
Speaker 1: of that, and how how without technology and without our

1425
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:42,519
Speaker 1: big gass brains we would be screwed, like absolutely screwed

1426
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:46,519
Speaker 1: if we met the wrong animal. Anyway, you got their

1427
01:27:46,520 --> 01:27:53,439
Speaker 1: bloody Mary Oh no, grape food. JE drink I have.

1428
01:27:53,640 --> 01:28:00,599
Speaker 1: I'm probably the first person to ever drink. I drank

1429
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:05,160
Speaker 1: it in two in two thousand and four in Portland,

1430
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:08,599
Speaker 1: I had some kambusa made in the girl's kitchen named Abbey.

1431
01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:11,479
Speaker 1: Second person she'd drank it first. Nobody knew what that

1432
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:15,640
Speaker 1: ship was back there thousand before. Man um Rick from

1433
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:17,880
Speaker 1: Nature's Metal. And how do you find Nature's Metal? You

1434
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:21,960
Speaker 1: go to Instagram type in Nature's Metal. Easy find it

1435
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:26,400
Speaker 1: one word. Rick is Metal, Rick Nature's Metal. Thanks a lot, everybody,

1436
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:34,000
Speaker 1: Lady and gentlemen. Thanks Rick. Everybody. Tune in next week

1437
01:28:34,760 --> 01:28:38,360
Speaker 1: the Meteor podcast. Or you want to see some crazy stuff,

1438
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:43,200
Speaker 1: go check out my Instagram. Check out sets tell what

1439
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:46,759
Speaker 1: signs Underscore West. Yeah it's not crazy, but just pretty.

1440
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:50,519
Speaker 1: I have some Nature's Metal stuff on there, at least one. Hey,

1441
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:52,479
Speaker 1: but you don't have as a farmer defecating off a

1442
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:56,280
Speaker 1: rolling tractor, which I have. I have a Neil guy

1443
01:28:56,360 --> 01:28:59,679
Speaker 1: hung up in the fence though. Here Ladies and gentleman

1444
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 1: seth worse follow him on Instagram. All right, thank you, everybuddy.