WEBVTT - Is there a Rosy Future for Libraries? 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.559 Guess what, mango, what's that? Will? Have you heard about 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:06.320 this secret library that's in Syria? What is it? Well, 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:09.320 hiding below the town of Darrayah, which is this suburb 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:13.280 of Damascus, there's a library of over fourteen thousand books. 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:15.840 Is he During the terrible siege of the area, people 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.479 have gone into homes and the buildings that were damaged 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.400 by all these attacks, and they've managed to retrieve these 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.360 books to keep in this library. I mean, it's been 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:28.000 such a heartbreaking situation there for years now, but visitors 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:30.640 to the library have found at least a temporary escape 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:33.760 from the devastation by coming down there to browse the 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.519 shelves and and just read for a bit. As one 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.760 visitor told the BBC, and as since the library gave 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:42.400 me back my life, I would say, just like the 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:46.640 body needs food, the soul needs books. That's incredible, it 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:49.559 really is. And while this is obviously an extreme example, 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.560 it's it's amazing how libraries have served as an escape 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:55.080 for people for so long now, and how they've been 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:59.000 a place for self improvement and community and entertainment for 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.640 so many And that guy is thinking, how did the 0:01:01.640 --> 0:01:04.880 modern library come to be? And how our libraries evolving, 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:07.280 So that's what we're talking about today. Let's dive in 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.399 either podcast listeners. Well, from the part time genius, I'm 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:30.319 Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:32.640 friend Man Guesh I Ticketer and on the other side 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:35.000 of the soundproof class still on the run from library 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:38.039 funds that are way way overdue. What did he say? 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.959 It's been like seven seven years. That's our friend and 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.200 producer Tristan McNeil. All right, well, Mengo, before we get 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.880 into the episode, we've had more than one listener asked 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.800 if I was actually saying your name correctly, and the 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.080 answer is yes, So there's enough to that. I mean, 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:54.360 I've known you for more than twenty years now, so 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:56.800 I feel like it's kind of like when you know, 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.040 kids just say a name for a grandparent, you have 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:00.960 to accept like that it's what it is. So if 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.240 they say mamma, it's in fact, Should I just call 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.320 you mammal? Is that work? Anyway? We've had some requests 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.320 for you to say your own name, so let's just 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:09.959 go ahead and do this. You want to go for it, 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.080 and the listeners will know how bad I am at 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.959 saying your name sure, it's it's pronounced Kyle Jones really 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.680 all this time. Okay, So there it is, And I 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:21.799 wanted to actually let you know that you're saying my 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.520 name incorrectly because in the part of Alabama where I'm from, 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:29.120 it's pronounced wheel. So now we both know. Alright. Well, 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.960 back to Tristan's late fees and things that are long overdue. Today, 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.359 we're finally getting into a topic we wanted to cover 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.720 for a while now, and that's libraries. Yeah. So you 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:40.639 and I have learned so much throughout our lives thanks 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.079 to libraries, and we really wanted to kind of return 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.080 the favor by higlighting the best facts and stories about 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.920 them we could find. Alright, so mego. You mentioned that 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:51.639 you sort of feel indebted to libraries for being such 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.760 a helpful resource over the years, and of course Tristan 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.120 and many others are indebted in a different kind of way. 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.160 But one thing that's become clear for me over the years, 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.440 especially working on this episode, is that pretty much everyone 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:06.800 feels that way about libraries. In fact, to get specific, 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:10.239 a full percent of Americans they just sixteen and older, 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:13.840 say that public libraries are important to their communities and 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.200 that those communities would be negatively impacted if libraries were 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:19.560 to close down, as at least according to a two 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.280 thousand thirteen study from the Pew Research Center. Wow, so 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.320 it's honestly a little surprisingly hear that the approval numbers 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:28.960 are that high for libraries. I mean, maybe it's just me, 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:30.880 but I tend to think of them as being in 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:34.000 the same boat as like, I don't know, the postal system. 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.080 You know, it's this like long running public institution that's 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:41.280 become a little more ignored in the digital edge. Yeah, 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:43.080 well that's the thing. I mean, the number of people 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.320 who approve of libraries and theory is significantly higher than 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.880 the number of people who actually use them. So even 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:52.680 though of citizens felt libraries were good for their communities, 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.360 only about fifty three percent had actually visited a library 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.440 or bookmobile in the last twelve months. So, I mean, 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.200 I do feel like if half a population is using 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.000 a largely government funded resource like that, it's it's really 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:08.360 not that bad. Though the visitor account has fallen further 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:12.480 since two thousand thirteen, when Pew published another library study. 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.080 Just last year, the number of people who had visited 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:17.400 a physical library in the past twelve months had fallen 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:21.080 to about forty four percent, and has the popularity of 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:24.400 libraries also dropped since two thousand team No, I mean 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:26.880 that's the craziest part. So Pew asked the same question 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:30.039 about community impact in two thousand fifteen and found that 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.359 public support for libraries had remained at that same sky 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:35.800 high level, which is great, but it does raise the 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.200 question if if just about everyone considers libraries to be 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:43.600 a valuable resource, why do we find fewer people using them? Yeah. 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:45.880 So I actually did some digging on that, and at 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:47.880 first it seemed like the reason for the decline and 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.680 visitors was, you know, due to technology and these technological 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:55.200 shifts and maybe like this growing preference for e readers 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:57.960 and tablets. Yeah, and and that was the PEWS takeaway 0:04:57.960 --> 0:04:59.920 as well. But I guess you're saying there's something else 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:01.920 might be at play here as well. Yeah. So, there's 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.760 this independent federal agency called the Institute of Museum and 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:08.240 Library Services, it's i MLS, and every other year it 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:10.760 surveys libraries all over the country to get a better 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:13.280 sense of how things are going in the industry. And 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:16.240 one thing that the agency shows is that the revenues 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.080 for libraries started dropping during the Great Recession in two 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.520 thousand nine and have continued to decline ever since. And 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.560 this revenue is like this money from late fees and 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.000 book sales or what are we talking about here? Yeah, 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:28.800 I mean that's part of it, but most of the 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:31.160 revenue lasses due to budget cuts from local and state 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.719 governments and whenever they need to drum up more cash 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.840 for public projects, libraries are just an easy target. And 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:40.640 so how does that relate to fewer people visiting the library? Well, 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:42.839 the i MLS puts it this way, and their report 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:46.839 from two thousand twelve quote we found that as investments 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.799 such as revenue, staffing, and programs increased, so did critical 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:54.800 use measures such as visitation and circulation. In the same way, 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:58.360 as investments were reduced, mostly in reaction to post recessionary 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:03.120 budgetary reductions, we saw decreases in library use. So basically, 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.760 the better funded to the library is the more people 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.039 use it, which actually makes a lot of sense, right, 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.640 I mean, more money means more staff members and longer hours, 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:14.680 newer computers, not to mention more Harry Potter books on 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.360 the shelves. So while libraries do stand a benefit from 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.640 better publicizing things like their e book lending programs, which 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:24.400 I think something like of libraries offer. Now, if we 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:26.560 really want them to live up to their full potential, 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:28.480 then I guess it's up to the public to make 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.440 sure that we properly fund them exactly. And while we're 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:33.760 on the subject of the library's full potential, have you 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.200 ever heard of this idea called the third place? No, 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.960 what's up? So it's actually a community building concept that 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.640 a sociologist named h I think his name is Ray Oldenberg, 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.479 and he outlined it in the late ninet eighties, and 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:49.040 his thinking was that society foster's healthy, happy citizens if 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.320 it helps them strike a balance between, you know, the 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:54.880 time spent at home, at work, and in neutral public spaces. 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:57.320 So the idea is that a person's home is their 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.920 first space, their workplaces this second place, and their third 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.720 places are the stimulating public spaces where people gather to 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.760 have conversations or to take part in some shared activity, 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:09.920 or just to be in the presence of other people. 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:12.680 So really, everywhere except the home in the office is 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.400 third place. No, I mean, so some of the historical examples, 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:20.280 Ray sided where French cafes and maybe American taverns during 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.400 their respective revolutions, and you could think of diners and 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:26.840 coffee shops as modern standings. But third places can also 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.120 be parks or rec centers and churches. The list goes on. 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.040 But it doesn't mean that any place can be a 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.400 third place. So, for example, it it's got a few rules. 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.480 It's got to be somewhere that's universally accessible, both in 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:41.800 terms of proximity and price, So at third places, some 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.720 somewhere that costs nothing or at least not much. And 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:47.400 the other main requirement is that it's somewhere welcoming, where 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.360 social and economic status don't really matter, and where the 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:53.120 environment is so comfortable that people develop a connection with 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.040 the space. All right, I think I get it. So, 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:56.920 so a library is kind of a third place that's 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:00.000 focused on learning, and I guess that's always been the case, 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:03.320 even back when libraries did little beyond lending print books, 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.880 but it seems especially true under today's model, where libraries 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:10.120 are offering community classes and provide access to things like, 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.240 you know, everything from sewing machines and spinning wheels and 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:15.960 go pro cameras, all kinds of things now right, and 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.760 now more than ever, libraries are becoming places where people 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.680 can learn a new skill or collaborate on a project. Yeah, 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.400 I guess you've you've sold me on this third place thing, mango, 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.120 and that that really might be the way to think 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.840 of libraries as we go forward, and I think so too. 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:31.920 So there's a British journalist named Caitlin Moran who wrote 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.440 a really great piece about libraries for the Times of London. 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:37.040 And this was back in two thousand and twelve. Apparently 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:39.319 the British government is a little farther along with their 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.560 library budget cuts than we are in the States. So 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.760 nearly ten percent of England's public libraries have closed since 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.360 two Yeah, and so Caitlin wrote about what it was 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.960 like to see all these old public libraries being shuttered, 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.520 and one pardon particular really speaks to how libraries exemplify 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.600 this third place and their benefits to society. She writes, quote, 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.040 a library in the middle of a community is a 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:05.320 cross between an emergency exit, a life raft and a festival. 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:08.640 They are cathedrals of the mind, hospitals of the soul, 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.600 themed parks of the imagination on a cold, rainy island. 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:15.560 They're the only sheltered public spaces where you're not a 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:19.679 consumer but a citizen instead a mall. The shops are 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:22.400 places where your money makes the wealthy wealthier, but a 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:24.960 library is where the wealthiest taxes pay for you to 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:29.280 become a little more extraordinary instead satisfying reversal balancing of 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:31.840 the power. That's pretty awesome, And you know, I like 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.280 to house she's reflecting both on her own experiences with libraries, 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:39.240 but also what libraries are to other people. That's ultimately 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.840 what's going on with this public approval rating that we 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:44.719 talked about before. I guess, so what do you mean 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:46.880 by that? Well, I read in that Pew report that 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.319 from last year that over three quarters of adults in 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:51.400 the US have been to a library at some point 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:53.600 in their lives. So to be sure, some of the 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.600 goodwill people feel towards libraries comes from their own personal 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.439 experiences with them. Even if someone hasn't been to a 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:03.040 public live re since childhood, they probably have some happy 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.200 nostalgia for those early visits, and I guess that gives 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:09.079 them a positive view of libraries in the present. But 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.120 I also think that people just like the idea of 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.400 a public space that's set aside for reading and learning, which, 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.000 you know, basically what everyone thinks of when they think 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:19.800 about libraries, it's kind of like, even if we don't 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:22.320 use them, we still take comfort in having the option 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:24.520 and knowing that these places are make a difference in 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:26.920 the lives of the people around us. I mean that 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:29.000 sounds right to me. And there's something in the concept 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:30.920 of the library that really speaks to us on this 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:34.199 fundamental level. It's like, we want freedom and we want 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.400 to satisfy our natural curiosity. So what could be better 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.120 than this big open space to explore any avenue have 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.280 thought you want? Yeah, after all, I mean that there's 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.840 a reason libraries have cropped up in just about every 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:48.120 civilization for the last few thousand years. And I guess 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:49.920 the only problem is that we aren't always as good 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.680 to them as they are to us, that's for sure. 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.640 But the funding threats and reduced foot traffic that our 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.120 libraries faced now don't seem nearly as bad when you 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:00.960 look at the rest of our messy track record. But libraries. Yeah, 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.400 now that we've gotten a sense of where libraries are today, 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:05.760 we should definitely talk about their history and how they've 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:09.320 been developed and also destroyed over the centuries. But first, 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:24.400 let's take a quick break you listen to Part Time 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.560 Genius and we're talking about the shockingly long history of libraries, 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.959 and I do mean long. So in fact, libraries are 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:34.640 so old they even pre date books. The oldest library 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.720 ever discovered dates back to the seventh century BC. It 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:40.400 was the private library of this Assyrian ruler and it 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.280 contained over thirty thousand tablets inscribed with cuneiform. And many 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.480 of the libraries tablets were just archival documents or religious texts, 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.439 but there were some early literary work sprinkled into including 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:53.560 the famous epic of Gilgamesh. Well, I like that literature 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.120 was included in that one because it helps strengthen this 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.840 claim that it's the oldest library. I mean, ancient civilizations 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:03.360 did really distinguished between archives and libraries, so it can 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:05.200 sometimes get a little bit dicey when we're trying to 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.800 decide what should or shouldn't be considered one. Today. For example, 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.600 archaeologists have uncovered similar collections of Assyrian clay tablets that 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.440 date back even farther. But you know, the contents are 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:19.160 mostly records of various business transactions and things like that, 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.000 so you couldn't really call it a library. I don't think. Yeah, 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.080 I mean it sounds more like a records room or something. 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:26.840 But another thing that might lend a bit more credit 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.480 to the royal library I mentioned is thats contests were 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:32.760 largely a mass through the conquest of other territories, So 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.679 the Assyrians would loot texts from the temples of Babylonia 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.480 and other nearby regions and and then just add them 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.040 to the private collection. So it really was this effort 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.600 to compile a wide range of knowledge and text from 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:47.760 different sources, rather than just someone's personal business archive. I mean, 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:49.960 I guess it was for a good cause, but you know, 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.880 building something as peaceful as a library through conquest just 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.200 feels a little off tonight. I think I'm more on 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:59.640 board with the Library of Alexandria's approach. So until it 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.120 was miss Lee burned to the ground during the Roman 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.760 conquest of Egypt back in thirty BC, the library held 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.440 something like four hundred thousand scrolls, and people had moved 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:12.480 from clay tablets to papyrus at this point. But you know, 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:16.320 the scrolls weren't the spoils of foreign conquest. Instead, the 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:20.199 Egyptians waited for foreigners to bring text to them. According 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.160 to the Greek physician and philosopher Galen. King Ptolemy of 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.200 Egypt ordered the scrolls of any visiting ships to be 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:30.679 seized and painstakingly copied into manuscripts. But the part that 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.559 I found funniest was that Ptolemy kept all the originals 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:35.480 and added that to the library, and then made the 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:39.400 visitors take the copies instead. Well, one thing I was 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.360 struck by while researching is how so many characteristics we 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:46.400 associate with libraries were relatively late additions. So even when 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.600 scrolls gave way to books, libraries still looked really different 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.160 from how they do today. For instance, did you know 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.960 the practice of shelving books vertically with their spines facing 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.720 out did take hold until the Middle Ages? I mean, 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.040 the closest things to public libraries and those days were monasteries. 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.360 But the monks who lived there didn't really want to 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.040 share their books with one another, so they actually hoarded 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:08.800 books in their private workspaces, going so far as to 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.320 chain the books to their desks. I mean, we've mentioned 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.920 this before in the World Records episode, but the books 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.679 were later moved to communal desks where everyone could use them, 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:18.960 but they were still chained up to keep them from disappear. 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.080 I mean, everybody knows that monks have sticky fingers though, right, So, 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:24.880 so when did the monks switch to more of a 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.600 vertical storage when they got sick of hearing all those 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.400 rattling chains? I think has more and more volumes were 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.320 added to the monks collections. The books had to be 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.400 piled on top of each other, which made it just 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.800 really cumbersome and noisy to remove them from one another. 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.880 But even after going vertical, books still weren't displayed with 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:43.760 their spines out. They were stood on their edge opposite 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.560 the spine, or even placed vertically but with the pages 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.320 facing out instead of the spine. Oh wow, I mean, 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.640 hiding the spine seems like the worst idea. You'd have 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:53.920 to pull every book off the shelf just to find 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:56.120 the one that you were looking for. Yeah, but you've 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.040 got to think about this. Back then, like printing on 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:02.160 book spines didn't really start appearing until so in the meantime, 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:03.840 people had to come up with their own ways and 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.960 life hacks to deal with this confusion, and one early 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.880 solution was to draw identifying marks and designs on the 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.320 thick of the pages, which is actually called the four 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:14.600 edges of a book by the way. So, for example, 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.080 there was this Italian doctor who had a friend's nephew 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:19.920 illustrate all the four edges of his books, and he'd 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.840 put scenes on there that depicted the book's subject matter. 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:25.800 The other popular solution was to wrap a title label 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:28.160 across the book and and tie it on with the chain. 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.080 Again with the chain. I mean, these people must have 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:34.280 been thrilled when printed spines finally came out. But you know, 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:37.200 while we're on that subject, I also came across a 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:41.120 surprisingly late addition to libraries, which is really the concept 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.400 of lending or circulating books. So most of the ancient 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.360 and medieval libraries we've been talking about, we're private. They 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.320 were either reserved for the use of royalty or maybe clergy. 0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:53.040 And you know, even though there were some libraries that 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.480 were open to the public, or at least the portion 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.320 of the public that was literate, they were only allowed 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.720 to reference the books, not to borrow them or read 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.200 outside the library. And in fact, the lending library concept 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.800 that we're so familiar with, that didn't catch on until 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:09.800 around the eighteenth century or so. And that's when you know, 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.520 public library started to crop up in in England and 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:16.480 in France. Yeah, there's another precursor to public lending libraries 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.880 in the US, and they were called subscription or membership libraries, 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:22.800 and they were funded by fees and donations from paying members. 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:26.120 So apparently there are still like twenty or so membership 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.520 libraries left in the US. But back in the late 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.600 eighteenth and nineteenth centuries they were all over the place. Yeah. 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.200 I wasn't aware of these until we started doing our research. 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.240 But but Ben Franklin started one in Philadelphia, right, Yeah, 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:39.600 that's right. It was called the Library Company, and it 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:41.760 was the first of its kind in the American colonies. 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.800 Franklin started in seventeen thirty one along with a like 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:47.720 minded group of scholars that he routinely met with, you know, 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:51.720 talk politics or philosophy and other smart stuff. And Franklin's 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:54.320 group needed a means of obtaining more reading material for 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:57.440 the discussions, but books were super expensive and hard to 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.440 come by, so his reading club pooled their money and 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:03.360 they started soliciting new members who could each contribute money 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.320 to help grow the library's collection. Yeah. But you know, 0:17:06.400 --> 0:17:09.520 before anybody accuses Ben Franklin of being too elitist, we 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.600 we should point out that he also had a hand 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.040 in establishing the country's first public library. So this was 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.879 back in sevente Franklin caught wind of a town in 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:21.680 Massachusetts that had named itself after him, so he decided 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.640 to reward their flattery with a gift. Now, the town 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.800 actually asked Franklin to donate a bell for their steeple, 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.520 but he nixed the idea in favor of a collection 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:34.280 of books. And he declared that rather obnoxiously, at least 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:38.080 that since was preferable to sound. Yeah, there's nothing elitist 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.080 about that, not at all. Well, the town of Franklin 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:43.840 definitely was an elitist because the residents took a vote 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.200 on what to do with those donated books, and they 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.000 decided to make them available to everyone, and with that 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:52.920 America's first public lending library was born. That's pretty great. 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:54.640 But you know, we can't really talk about the history 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:58.600 of US libraries without mentioning Andrew Carnegie. His donations made 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:00.959 a huge impact on library of all men, and not 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.440 just in the States but throughout the whole world. Yeah, 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.040 it's true. I mean everyone remembers Carnegie as this wealthy 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:10.399 industrialist and man about town, but he was also really philanthropic, 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.080 and he gave tons of money towards projects aimed at 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:15.760 making the world a better place. And I'd have to 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.960 say his greatest gifts were the astounding two thousand, five 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.960 hundred and nine so called Carnegie Libraries that he funded 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.640 over just a fifty year period. Yeah, so there were 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.040 thirty five hundred public libraries in the US by which 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:32.600 is a crazy amount of expansion in the hundred fifty 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:35.960 years so since uh the first one in Franklin. But 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.000 of those thirty five hundred libraries, just shy of half 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.800 were paid for by Carnegie. That's incredible, it really is. 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:44.680 I mean, you know, I think what I like best 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:46.960 about the story is why Carnegie did all this in 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:50.040 the first place. So, according to his autobiography, he fell 0:18:50.080 --> 0:18:52.480 in love with reading as a young boy in Scotland 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:56.480 and he would regularly borrow books from the Tradesman's subscription library, 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.760 which his father helped to start. Then years later, Carnegie 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:01.960 moved to Pittsburgh with his parents and got a job 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:04.920 at the local telegraph company. As luck would have it, 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.720 his employer actually had a private library that he allowed 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:11.000 his workers to borrow from on Saturdays, and this just 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.680 changed Carnegie's world. I mean, here was this wealthy businessman 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:17.840 lending his personal books to a bunch of blue collar kids, 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:19.600 you know, just so they might have a shot at 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:23.760 bettering themselves. And Carnegie knew that without that act of kindness, 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.840 all that knowledge would have stayed beyond their reach. And 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:29.160 that's when he resolved that if he ever struck it rich, 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:32.560 he would use his wealth to establish free libraries. And 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.720 he definitely kept his word right Even today, almost all 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.680 of the Carnegie libraries in the US are still standing, 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.880 and over half are still in use. His active libraries, 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:45.080 a lot of them in lower middle income areas. Yeah, 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:48.040 and Carnegie actually had another lasting impact on libraries that 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.200 I want to talk about. But before we get to that, 0:19:50.359 --> 0:20:00.600 let's break for a quiz. Okay, man, go, So, since 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.159 today's episode is about libraries, we decided to look for 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.840 one of our listeners that had a library card to 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:09.280 come on and take a quiz, and we found one. 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:12.719 He's uh. He's also somebody that spent a ton of 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:16.479 time in libraries working on a couple of fascinating oral histories, 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.119