WEBVTT - Andor Season 2 (Episodes 4-6) Roundtable 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:00.560 Worrying. 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:04.880 Today's episode contains spoilers for episodes four through six of 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:06.760 and Or season two, so be warned. 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:23.680 Hello, my name is. 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:27.200 Jason Concepcion and on Wedsday Night, and welcome back to 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:29.319 ext revision of the podcast where we dive deep into 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:31.400 your favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture. 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:32.600 Coming to you. 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:33.640 From My Heart Podcast. 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:35.920 We're reading you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:37.080 and Thursday. 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:41.280 Plus news and in today's news plus news. In today's episode, 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:44.880 you loved it, and we're back. It's the round Table. 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:48.280 We are convening the Jedi Council to break down the 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.120 rather amazing episodes four to six of and Or season two. 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:55.400 So we're bringing in the crew. Welcome, Joel and Naboo. 0:00:55.480 --> 0:01:02.080 That was not mental rhyme, but it did today. I 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:03.120 love to have you back. 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:07.399 Well, we already did our recap, so let's get your 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:13.680 initial reactions and Joel on episodes four, five, and six 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:14.440 of and ORCS and two. 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:15.360 Joel, let's start with you. 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:21.280 Wow, what a show, guys. I was scared for these 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.600 episodes because I was worried Bix was gonna be suffering 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:26.360 the whole time, but they got us out at the end. 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.560 I think the man Mathma and Crenic moment was maybe 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:34.080 the best verbal spat we've had in Star Wars ever. 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.800 It's so beautiful, like what a great breakdown of uh, 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.280 the Resistance versus the Empire's like entire thought process and 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.679 it's happening all while poor Cleya is like crushing her 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:48.880 hand open trying to get out. I do think I 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:53.880 thought these episodes were a little slower, but I'm not 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.080 mad at the pacing. Okay, hear me out. I've heard 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:00.240 people be like, still, not a lot is happening, and 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.760 I was like, okay, but also, you're learning about an 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:08.880 entirely new world. You're getting great spy theatrics. And I 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:13.000 do feel the pressure cooker of Rogue one building, and 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:14.400 I think you kind of want to be the frog 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:16.160 in the boiling water on that. You want to feel 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.400 a pressure slowly rise and the overwhelmed slowly happening. I 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.520 think the key to that was Luthan being terrified losing 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:25.800 his shit. For like Luman was cracking. He was like, 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:26.640 why did we do that? 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:27.200 You made me? 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:28.120 You made me do it? 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:28.440 Like that? 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.520 That was great that that was a really cool moment. 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:32.880 Yeah, and it's such a key like insight to oh. 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.120 Luvin is struggling to keep the rebellion going on his own. 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:41.240 Everybody is desperate and separated. We don't have like our 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.799 base yet. It's Mathma is still here. When is she going? 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.200 We Mathma famously gives it like a great speech that 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:52.959 kind of kicks off the rebellion. She's still in the Senate. 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:55.200 I keep being like, get out, broken out, like if 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.680 you feel that pressure. And for that reason, I think 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:01.440 it's working and I'm okay with it, but we need 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.240 some action. I'm ready to get into it. Those are 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:04.480 my thoughts, Aboo, what do you think? 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.919 I also loved the setup episodes. The show continues to 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:11.960 get better and better for me. I was really really 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.280 into the slow burned spycraft of at Home. I just 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:19.000 love a cool guy being cool and spy crafty, and 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:22.080 that was Cassie and Or for three episodes of this show, 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.000 especially when he went to Gorman, when he was talking 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.919 to the folks on Gorman, when Bell and Sinsa came 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:30.280 in and did their like badass spycraft, like where the 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.200 professional rebels you follow us? Can you follow orders? All 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:38.160 of that was just so fun to watch. I loved it, 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:41.760 and at first I was going to come in here 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:44.880 and say that Gorman was my favorite part of these 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:49.000 three episodes. But I was going to say that, but 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.280 Joel's giving me a look because that would be wrong. 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:52.880 I was locked in. 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:56.840 Every time we cut back to Corrussant as well, So okay, honestly, 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:00.560 I was having a blast in these episodes. I enjoyed 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.000 the slow burn of it all. I understand folks who 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:07.720 might want the story to start catapulting forward and come 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.200 towards some sort of conclusion, but I think things are happening. 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:13.720 Buildings are being built on Gorman, Rebellions are like festering 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:19.240 on Gorman. Things are still happening, and I think we're 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:23.800 headed toward I mean, we know we're headed toward Rogue one, 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.440 but I think we're headed toward a fun conclusion to 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:28.360 this show, and we just we just have to be 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:29.239 along for the ride. 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:31.720 Yeah, I would also agree. I think you guys bring 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:34.600 up some great points, but I think that people who 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:36.919 are looking for something that isn't slow burn at this 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:41.000 point are misunderstanding the point of this particular Star Wars story, 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.520 because I think when you know all the great movies 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.800 that Jason has brung up his letterbox list. When we're 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:51.680 looking at those kind of stories, stories about spycraft, stories 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:56.720 about rebellion, revolution, they are often about the slow moments 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:01.680 of the personal interactions and how we get that, how 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:07.080 does this one person's impact change the space and the 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:09.440 nature of the story. And we are very much in 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:11.599 that with Rogue One, and I think that was my 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.479 favorite thing about these these episodes. 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.960 Yeah, let's talk about Gorman. I think that I agree 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.240 with what everybody's saying. Of course, is a lot of 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:24.480 this is in the beholder. I I react to the 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:26.680 story in a lot of the same way that Hemingway, 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.640 in the same way that Hemingway describe bankruptcy, which is 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:32.719 it happens very slowly than all at once. 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:34.680 To me, like the real. 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:38.480 The drama of Rogue One isn't like big battles and 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:48.400 fights as quote something happening. It's people coming to terms with, Oh, 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:52.919 there's no easy way out of this. There's no cavalry coming, 0:05:53.480 --> 0:05:58.599 there's no Jedi Nights coming to save us. I have 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:02.240 to pick up a gun do something, and I'm not 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:07.200 that person. And so that is tremendously dramatic to me, 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.880 and that, to me encapsulates what's. 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:12.239 Going on in Gorman. 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.120 I think, Aboo, you're absolutely correct, Like, it's so thrilling 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:18.560 to see Cassian in full spy mode pretending to be 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.680 this kind of swashed way. 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:24.200 Also the full like visual change in his head. Yeah, 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.800 because we haven't seen that. We haven't seen him in 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:28.880 a costume before fashion. 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.800 Guy from season one. Like season one, Cassian could not 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:36.960 be another person. He was so intent on clinging to 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:39.760 his idea for very obviously reasons. He'd been ripped from 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.640 his homeland, like he'd been in prison. I forgot. I 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:44.120 went back and watched him on season one, and I 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.599 forgot that Cassian was in prisoned from like thirteen to sixteen. Yeah, 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.040 and then he lived through a rebellion only to learn 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.039 that they were fighting each other. At the end of it. 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:53.880 They're like, we weren't fighting. It was just in fighting 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:57.119 between ourselves. We all died. It was terrible. I think 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:01.359 like this jump from in the first batch episodes, we 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:05.360 get Cassie and is like the survivor, Like he's very 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:08.159 much like, hey, guys should be collecting water. Yes, I 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:09.960 will learn to fly this plane while it's in the air. 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.920 It's fine. I've got it, like he's his tactical instincts 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.680 are great. We get the mental spy here, like he 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:20.160 he literally transforms before the conversation in the cafe where 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:20.760 he was like. 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.840 What are you doing, you moron? Don't come to her early? 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.640 Like did you're lucky that I'm not that I am 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.280 the person that you think I am, or because otherwise 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:33.600 you like, get it together. 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:34.840 You amateurs. 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:36.440 Drawing attention. 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:38.360 Get that like I. 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:42.040 Saw them easily and the Empire will touch them easily 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.480 at the same time, you know, so. 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:45.360 Let's talk about that. 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:50.600 I think what was surprising to me was Cassian's uh 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:54.800 Cassie basically reading the Gorman front to Filth and saying, 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.960 you know what, you guys waited too long. You're not 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:01.680 fucking ready. You're all gonna get medacre. This is a 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:09.800 suicide mission, and I'm out. I was surprised, particularly there's 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.600 that wonderful emotion connection that he has with the Bell 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.520 Hop where you can tell like there's a lot of 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.920 stuff going on below the surface, where Cassian is responding 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.440 to this like terrible injustice that is happening. That energy 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.920 that can go nowhere, but it needs to explode somehow, 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.320 and he sees all of this and he just says, 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.560 you know what, it's not professional enough for me. You 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:36.120 guys aren't ready. And there's a debate between him and Luthen, 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:39.960 where Luthen is like, one, they want to do it. 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:47.640 Two doesn't it benefit the rebellion overall to shock the 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:52.400 galaxy if in fact, the Gormans are wiped out or massacred, 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.600 if something terrible happens to Gorman doesn't wouldn't that shake 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:57.840 the galaxy and wake them up from their slumber? 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:00.920 Wouldn't that help be the spark lights this whole thing? 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:02.560 And then you have the Gore in front themselves, who 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.160 I think would admit, One, we're not ready. Two we 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:08.720 waited too long. But how can we sit here and 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.599 do nothing at this point? Like isn't it more important 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:18.920 to fight and maybe lose and have history say they 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:22.320 were an honorable people who try, who saw something terrible happen. 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:26.319 They didn't just go quietly. So let's talk about that that. 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:28.240 How did you. 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:33.920 React to Cassian turning down the cores and what is 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.600 like what is the way forward? Because my sense was 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:42.680 that even Cassian at this point doesn't see it clearly enough, 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.000 he doesn't see that there is no easy off ramp 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:50.920 two away out of this galactic crisis. He thinks, Oh, 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.960 if we just had like the most professional rebels, the 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:59.960 best tactically sound, strategically smart rebellion, that's how. 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:00.319 We do this. 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.959 When Luthen is like, no, we're gonna get tremendously bloodied 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.760 and we're going to have to and the Gores meanwhile, 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.600 they're saying, well, it's our life, it's our planet, you know, 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.400 we can do what we want. Yeah, so what what 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.600 is the way forward here? And how did you react 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.240 to this kind of ideological struggle? I think on the 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.080 first watch, you're really like cassieh my god, like, what 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:24.520 are we doing here? Like you're supposed to be you're 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.840 the rebel, Like you're the guy we're following to bat 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.920 and you really feel for the leader who's like, you know, 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:32.719 like you're not a revolutionary. 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.160 And I'm not fucking impressed. Okay, I loved it. But 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.240 then on the second watch, I think covertly the best 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:42.080 moment it's actually when Kathy and Luthern meet at Luthen's 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:44.400 shop and Kathy and storms in there like that's the 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.240 crux of all of like this batch of three episodes. 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.880 But Luthen has this great line where he's like, is 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:55.800 this everything? Like you abandoning the entire plan everything. 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:58.160 Because because I went and talked to Bix and you 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:01.000 didn't know about it, and now you're mad, like. 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:05.000 On the phone, it's everything, and you have drawn a 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.960 line in the sand. And that is really the difference 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.400 here is to Luthen, everything is everything. There really is 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.800 no end point to or there's nothing that would stop 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.000 him from trying to achieve this goal of liberation. He'll 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:18.880 give his He's already said he's gonna give his life. 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:21.000 We know, we've known that since the end of season one. 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.319 Lutheran's gonna die. He's prepared for it mentally, even though 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.520 it seems as if he's he's terrified of it happening, 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:29.959 which is fair. You know, it's scary to die. But 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:35.240 Cassian is an idealist, and Cassian, I think, believes so 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:40.240 much in his ability to survive, and he survives by 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:45.239 calculated movements that he doesn't see failure as a possibility 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.640 because he won't entertain ideas that could possibly fail. And 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:51.240 that's not everything that's really guarded and very safe I was. 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:54.520 To add to that. Cassian talks a lot in these 0:11:54.559 --> 0:11:59.400 episodes about his luck, and I think, to your point, 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.800 Cassian takes calculated risks, and I think he's just a 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.199 guy who feels like I could walk away from the 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:10.360 table now up. Well, my luck is very thin at 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.160 this point, and I don't know when it will run out, 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:16.440 and I have bis to go home to. Whereas to 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.400 your point, Luthen is, like I decided long ago, I'm 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:22.679 giving it, I'm burning it all to bring down the empire. 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:24.920 Yeah, there's nothing for Luthen to go home to at 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:25.360 this point. 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.720 Yeah, Yeah, I also think Cassian. What's kind of heartbreaking 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:35.120 about Cassian saying no to the Gorman Revolutionist that we 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:37.880 saw him inspire a rebel in the first scene of 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.200 the first episode. You know, we saw him talk to 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:44.000 someone as a rebel leader, as someone who can inspire, 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:47.120 that can get somebody to step in the circle and 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.440 take that chance on a thing that they feel is right, 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.440 even if they may die in the process. We don't 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:54.480 know what happened to that woman in the first episode. 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.439 Did she make it out, was their retribution? 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:57.079 We have no. 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.400 Idea Cassian's in a similar situation. Here. But I think 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.400 we have to remember there has been a year gap. 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:06.320 He has been on many missions through the course of 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.600 that year. But I think this is a tough spot 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:11.800 to be in because, as you said, Jason, he has 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.720 Bix on one hand. On the other hand, there doesn't 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.720 seem to be any sort of endgame in sight. There 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:19.520 doesn't even seem to be any sort of like win 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.679 in sight at the moment, like this is a pretty. 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.040 For the for the Gormans, or for overall. 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:25.199 For this. 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:31.280 For all these operations he's been running for Luthan, Like 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.360 where is it all going? Like this is sort of 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.439 the dip of the rebellion, right, They're in this low 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.840 before potentially something like Gorman blows up and the rebellion 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.160 takes off. And so I think for Cassie and this 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.080 is like, emotionally and as a rebel, a very low 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:48.640 place to be in. And so to be sent to 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.800 Gorman and see these like bright eyed idealists be like 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.920 we're gonna stand up to the Empire, We're gonna go public, 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.360 and we're gonna take him down. Like I think he's 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:02.040 just really disheartened and jaded at this point. I think 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.079 something has turned him into the rebel at the start 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.679 has been dimmed, and we're seeing that in the set 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:08.360 of episodes. 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:10.600 Yeah, I think you bring up a great point there, Boo, 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.800 because I think it's that cynical nature. It's the transition 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:19.320 that we're seeing from and Or in season one to 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.040 and Or in Rogue one. And at the moment he 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:30.840 is ironically the cynicism and emotional disconnect of Lutheran is 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.640 rubbing off on him. But he has not gotten to 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.240 that point yet where he's like, oh, well, if the 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.080 whole of Gorman burns because it goes wrong, that will 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:41.360 just be a great call to the Empire. He's not 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:44.000 there yet, you know, He's he is still in a 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:46.200 place where he has someone that he loves at home. 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:50.360 But I think something really interesting about where we find 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:55.640 and Or this episode is in that crosshairs of the 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:59.400 rebellion being something that he cares about and is almost 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:02.720 like his that he just has to do. And then 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:05.320 obviously having Bis at home, which is the thing that 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.440 drives him. And there's that great moment where you know, 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.160 and Or so he doesn't want to do this. He's 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.040 turning his nose up at the Gorms because they're not 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.520 ready and they need to do it properly. But then 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.360 there's that great moment where Big says, you know, you 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:20.760 didn't kill that boy because we're war. You killed him 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:21.840 because he saw my face. 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:29.880 So's own personal kind of relationship to Bix and to 0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:33.920 what is driving him can still cause him to behave 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.800 in ways that are abhorrent or ways that are violent 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:41.680 and unnecessary, but he's not willing to just risk himself 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.240 for the larger cause, and he wants. 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:45.920 To do anything he can to prepare well. And that 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.960 reminds you. I think that's really interesting totally. 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:50.320 And it reminds me of the moment on the ship 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:54.360 between Luthin and and Or where Andrew is like, you know, 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:56.960 I'm thinking like a soldier, like think like a leader. 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:57.600 Want to go home. 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.000 They're like, are you now how long have you been? 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.480 I follow the orders? We that's mission accomplished. A leader 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.200 is you know, eighteen steps ahead, and you know, how 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.200 do we get out? And it's just and to a 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.000 boost earlier point like we've seen him be a leader, 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.560 And I think it's really interesting for the show to 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:19.200 take a step back and be like, yeah, sometimes you backslide, 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:24.120 like sometimes Auliu's faith. Sometimes it's it's scary moving forward. 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:28.600 And I think ending the first batch of episodes with 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:31.960 and Or like really referring to Bix as his home 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:37.040 and then seeing Bix's ability to hide whatever's going on 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:41.400 with her from Andor is incredible, like Cassy and has 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:47.040 no clue really how far down bixes and I like 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.560 for him, it does seem like he's ready to sort 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.920 of get out until we get to that final moment 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:58.200 where Luthern Luthan's like, hey, like this is really your issue, 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.880 Like Bix is your I was the problem because that's 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.280 that's not quite what it is. But like you, guys, 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:05.919 if you're going to be a team, if you are 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:07.480 going to be acting in the world, you need to 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.359 figure out what your partner's doing and get under control. 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:12.000 Guess it's like it's up to you, and he's like, 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:13.760 it's absolutely not Abu. 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:18.520 No, this is like you please. Well I would also 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:22.360 say as well, I think that there is just a 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.960 messiness here with and Or that is easier for him 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:30.240 to stay in. His personal messiness and his personal reasons 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:34.119 for the rebellion are much easier for him to be 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:39.200 driven by than taking the risk of losing an entire city, 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.639 you know. I also think there's that element to it. 0:17:41.640 --> 0:17:43.920 It's not just about not wanting to do something wrong. 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:45.560 But I don't know if he's ready to be the 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:47.400 one to say, hey, go for it, guys. 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.480 I think part of this is I think what you're 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:58.600 talking about, Rosie is in part it arises from Cassian's 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:02.200 role in the rebellion. He's not Luthan in the belly 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.240 of the Beast, who never or I should say, who 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:06.840 rarely goes to the front. 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:08.360 He's in both worlds. 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.359 So he's meeting these people, he's looking at them in 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.879 the eye, he's shaking hands with them, he's connecting emotionally 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:13.560 with the Bellhak. 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:14.800 He's like doing all these things. 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.800 So it's real to him, these people who are gonna 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:21.400 die that, you know, like that's he's gonna watch them. 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.399 He knows what the cost is going to be because 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:25.520 he's been on both sides of it. 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.080 He's seen the imperial machine. 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.040 He's seen the kind of hard ware they have, the 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:30.880 kind of force they can bring to bear on these 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:35.320 regular people who are fucking linen weavers, who are like, 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:40.080 I want to do something, yea. Luthan has the benefit 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:45.119 of distance. He can sit back and say politically, looking 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:49.080 at the board, this helps us, so we need to 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:52.280 do it. And I think part of the tension between 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:57.600 the two is that is that Caasian has to interact 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.560 with these he knows we're gonna die. And that's why, 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:08.760 you know, what's the Luthan giving Bis and cassion the 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.760 the revenge mission on the Imperial Doctor. 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:14.560 Is like it's almost like a coach. 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.720 Of a sports team, like criticize and criticize and criticize 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.800 and criticizing a player and then being like, now I'm 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.159 going to give you the ball, go ahead. And it's 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:31.320 it's Luthan's way of saying, I see what's happening with you, guys. 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.320 I see how much you're hurting and how much you've 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.199 been traumatized by all of this and how hard everything is. 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:42.440 Here's one for you. This doesn't advance really our political 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:45.160 goals that much. I guess it does because you're stopping 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:50.200 this torture technology from going wider into the into the 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:51.400 Imperial regime. 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:53.320 But this is really. 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.199 One for them personally. Oh yeah, And that's so I 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.240 found that very interesting that he's like, here's one, here's 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.080 a risk I'm willing to take so that you guys can. 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.000 Feel better about what you're doing. Mm hmm, go kill 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:05.360 that guy. 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:08.439 Yeah, And I think there's an interesting conversation to be 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:12.920 had with the way Luthen then also operates with Vell 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:17.440 and Sinta and keeping them apart for a year, And 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.840 it makes me wonder how intentional that is and seeing 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.240 that like when they are together they're less effective. Is 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.199 he doing some sort of pressure use their love as 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.560 a pressure cooker to make them more effective. I think 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:35.160 Luthan is playing these two couples in different and similar 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.640 ways in order to achieve Is it like, like you're saying, 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:42.120 Jason like a coach, he is coaching these like subordinates, uh, 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.560 towards his his own larger goals, but one. 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.520 Only one would only need to look at Will. 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:55.600 If kind of romance in the field is affecting affecting 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:56.159 your ability? 0:20:56.640 --> 0:21:00.000 Vision was so upset with Will, But I'm actually I'm 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.399 glad we I'm glad we talked about Will because I 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:06.320 actually think some of the most affecting stuff this episode 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.040 is the stuff with Will and Saw. 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.880 So after we come up break Oh, yes, take. 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:13.639 Joel, Let's take a break and then we'll come back and. 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:14.119 Talk about that. 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:32.679 Yeah, and we're back Joel and Aboo, how did the 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:37.600 kind of saw origin story and the Will and Saw moments, Like, 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:39.880 what did that kind of say to you about where 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:42.000 the rebellion is at and the different sides of the 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.560 rebellion that we kind of explore this episode. 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:49.840 I think I'm just. 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.200