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Speaker 1: Worrying.

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Speaker 2: Today's episode contains spoilers for episodes four through six of

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Speaker 2: and Or season two, so be warned.

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Speaker 1: Hello, my name is.

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Speaker 2: Jason Concepcion and on Wedsday Night, and welcome back to

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Speaker 2: ext revision of the podcast where we dive deep into

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Speaker 2: your favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture.

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Speaker 3: Coming to you.

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Speaker 1: From My Heart Podcast.

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Speaker 2: We're reading you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday,

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Speaker 2: and Thursday.

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Speaker 4: Plus news and in today's news plus news. In today's episode,

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Speaker 4: you loved it, and we're back. It's the round Table.

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Speaker 4: We are convening the Jedi Council to break down the

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Speaker 4: rather amazing episodes four to six of and Or season two.

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Speaker 4: So we're bringing in the crew. Welcome, Joel and Naboo.

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Speaker 4: That was not mental rhyme, but it did today. I

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Speaker 4: love to have you back.

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Speaker 2: Well, we already did our recap, so let's get your

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Speaker 2: initial reactions and Joel on episodes four, five, and six

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Speaker 2: of and ORCS and two.

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Speaker 1: Joel, let's start with you.

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Speaker 5: Wow, what a show, guys. I was scared for these

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Speaker 5: episodes because I was worried Bix was gonna be suffering

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Speaker 5: the whole time, but they got us out at the end.

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Speaker 5: I think the man Mathma and Crenic moment was maybe

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Speaker 5: the best verbal spat we've had in Star Wars ever.

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Speaker 5: It's so beautiful, like what a great breakdown of uh,

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Speaker 5: the Resistance versus the Empire's like entire thought process and

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Speaker 5: it's happening all while poor Cleya is like crushing her

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Speaker 5: hand open trying to get out. I do think I

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Speaker 5: thought these episodes were a little slower, but I'm not

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Speaker 5: mad at the pacing. Okay, hear me out. I've heard

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Speaker 5: people be like, still, not a lot is happening, and

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Speaker 5: I was like, okay, but also, you're learning about an

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Speaker 5: entirely new world. You're getting great spy theatrics. And I

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Speaker 5: do feel the pressure cooker of Rogue one building, and

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Speaker 5: I think you kind of want to be the frog

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Speaker 5: in the boiling water on that. You want to feel

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Speaker 5: a pressure slowly rise and the overwhelmed slowly happening. I

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Speaker 5: think the key to that was Luthan being terrified losing

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Speaker 5: his shit. For like Luman was cracking. He was like,

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Speaker 5: why did we do that?

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Speaker 4: You made me?

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Speaker 5: You made me do it?

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Speaker 6: Like that?

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Speaker 1: That was great that that was a really cool moment.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's such a key like insight to oh.

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Speaker 5: Luvin is struggling to keep the rebellion going on his own.

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Speaker 5: Everybody is desperate and separated. We don't have like our

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Speaker 5: base yet. It's Mathma is still here. When is she going?

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Speaker 5: We Mathma famously gives it like a great speech that

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Speaker 5: kind of kicks off the rebellion. She's still in the Senate.

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Speaker 5: I keep being like, get out, broken out, like if

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Speaker 5: you feel that pressure. And for that reason, I think

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Speaker 5: it's working and I'm okay with it, but we need

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Speaker 5: some action. I'm ready to get into it. Those are

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Speaker 5: my thoughts, Aboo, what do you think?

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Speaker 3: I also loved the setup episodes. The show continues to

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Speaker 3: get better and better for me. I was really really

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Speaker 3: into the slow burned spycraft of at Home. I just

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Speaker 3: love a cool guy being cool and spy crafty, and

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Speaker 3: that was Cassie and Or for three episodes of this show,

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Speaker 3: especially when he went to Gorman, when he was talking

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Speaker 3: to the folks on Gorman, when Bell and Sinsa came

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Speaker 3: in and did their like badass spycraft, like where the

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Speaker 3: professional rebels you follow us? Can you follow orders? All

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Speaker 3: of that was just so fun to watch. I loved it,

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Speaker 3: and at first I was going to come in here

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Speaker 3: and say that Gorman was my favorite part of these

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Speaker 3: three episodes. But I was going to say that, but

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Speaker 3: Joel's giving me a look because that would be wrong.

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Speaker 4: I was locked in.

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Speaker 3: Every time we cut back to Corrussant as well, So okay, honestly,

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Speaker 3: I was having a blast in these episodes. I enjoyed

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Speaker 3: the slow burn of it all. I understand folks who

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Speaker 3: might want the story to start catapulting forward and come

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Speaker 3: towards some sort of conclusion, but I think things are happening.

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Speaker 3: Buildings are being built on Gorman, Rebellions are like festering

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Speaker 3: on Gorman. Things are still happening, and I think we're

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Speaker 3: headed toward I mean, we know we're headed toward Rogue one,

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Speaker 3: but I think we're headed toward a fun conclusion to

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Speaker 3: this show, and we just we just have to be

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Speaker 3: along for the ride.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I would also agree. I think you guys bring

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Speaker 4: up some great points, but I think that people who

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Speaker 4: are looking for something that isn't slow burn at this

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Speaker 4: point are misunderstanding the point of this particular Star Wars story,

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Speaker 4: because I think when you know all the great movies

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Speaker 4: that Jason has brung up his letterbox list. When we're

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Speaker 4: looking at those kind of stories, stories about spycraft, stories

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Speaker 4: about rebellion, revolution, they are often about the slow moments

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Speaker 4: of the personal interactions and how we get that, how

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Speaker 4: does this one person's impact change the space and the

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Speaker 4: nature of the story. And we are very much in

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Speaker 4: that with Rogue One, and I think that was my

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Speaker 4: favorite thing about these these episodes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk about Gorman. I think that I agree

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Speaker 2: with what everybody's saying. Of course, is a lot of

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Speaker 2: this is in the beholder. I I react to the

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Speaker 2: story in a lot of the same way that Hemingway,

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Speaker 2: in the same way that Hemingway describe bankruptcy, which is

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Speaker 2: it happens very slowly than all at once.

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Speaker 1: To me, like the real.

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Speaker 2: The drama of Rogue One isn't like big battles and

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Speaker 2: fights as quote something happening. It's people coming to terms with, Oh,

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Speaker 2: there's no easy way out of this. There's no cavalry coming,

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Speaker 2: there's no Jedi Nights coming to save us. I have

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Speaker 2: to pick up a gun do something, and I'm not

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Speaker 2: that person. And so that is tremendously dramatic to me,

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Speaker 2: and that, to me encapsulates what's.

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Speaker 1: Going on in Gorman.

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Speaker 2: I think, Aboo, you're absolutely correct, Like, it's so thrilling

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Speaker 2: to see Cassian in full spy mode pretending to be

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Speaker 2: this kind of swashed way.

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Speaker 4: Also the full like visual change in his head. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: because we haven't seen that. We haven't seen him in

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Speaker 4: a costume before fashion.

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Speaker 5: Guy from season one. Like season one, Cassian could not

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Speaker 5: be another person. He was so intent on clinging to

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Speaker 5: his idea for very obviously reasons. He'd been ripped from

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Speaker 5: his homeland, like he'd been in prison. I forgot. I

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Speaker 5: went back and watched him on season one, and I

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Speaker 5: forgot that Cassian was in prisoned from like thirteen to sixteen. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: and then he lived through a rebellion only to learn

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Speaker 5: that they were fighting each other. At the end of it.

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Speaker 5: They're like, we weren't fighting. It was just in fighting

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Speaker 5: between ourselves. We all died. It was terrible. I think

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Speaker 5: like this jump from in the first batch episodes, we

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Speaker 5: get Cassie and is like the survivor, Like he's very

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Speaker 5: much like, hey, guys should be collecting water. Yes, I

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Speaker 5: will learn to fly this plane while it's in the air.

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Speaker 5: It's fine. I've got it, like he's his tactical instincts

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Speaker 5: are great. We get the mental spy here, like he

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Speaker 5: he literally transforms before the conversation in the cafe where

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Speaker 5: he was like.

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Speaker 2: What are you doing, you moron? Don't come to her early?

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Speaker 2: Like did you're lucky that I'm not that I am

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Speaker 2: the person that you think I am, or because otherwise

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Speaker 2: you like, get it together.

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Speaker 1: You amateurs.

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Speaker 3: Drawing attention.

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Speaker 1: Get that like I.

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Speaker 2: Saw them easily and the Empire will touch them easily

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Speaker 2: at the same time, you know, so.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about that.

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Speaker 2: I think what was surprising to me was Cassian's uh

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Speaker 2: Cassie basically reading the Gorman front to Filth and saying,

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Speaker 2: you know what, you guys waited too long. You're not

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Speaker 2: fucking ready. You're all gonna get medacre. This is a

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Speaker 2: suicide mission, and I'm out. I was surprised, particularly there's

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Speaker 2: that wonderful emotion connection that he has with the Bell

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Speaker 2: Hop where you can tell like there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: stuff going on below the surface, where Cassian is responding

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Speaker 2: to this like terrible injustice that is happening. That energy

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Speaker 2: that can go nowhere, but it needs to explode somehow,

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Speaker 2: and he sees all of this and he just says,

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Speaker 2: you know what, it's not professional enough for me. You

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Speaker 2: guys aren't ready. And there's a debate between him and Luthen,

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Speaker 2: where Luthen is like, one, they want to do it.

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Speaker 2: Two doesn't it benefit the rebellion overall to shock the

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Speaker 2: galaxy if in fact, the Gormans are wiped out or massacred,

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Speaker 2: if something terrible happens to Gorman doesn't wouldn't that shake

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Speaker 2: the galaxy and wake them up from their slumber?

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't that help be the spark lights this whole thing?

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Speaker 2: And then you have the Gore in front themselves, who

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Speaker 2: I think would admit, One, we're not ready. Two we

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Speaker 2: waited too long. But how can we sit here and

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Speaker 2: do nothing at this point? Like isn't it more important

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Speaker 2: to fight and maybe lose and have history say they

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Speaker 2: were an honorable people who try, who saw something terrible happen.

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Speaker 2: They didn't just go quietly. So let's talk about that that.

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Speaker 1: How did you.

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Speaker 2: React to Cassian turning down the cores and what is

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Speaker 2: like what is the way forward? Because my sense was

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Speaker 2: that even Cassian at this point doesn't see it clearly enough,

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Speaker 2: he doesn't see that there is no easy off ramp

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Speaker 2: two away out of this galactic crisis. He thinks, Oh,

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Speaker 2: if we just had like the most professional rebels, the

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Speaker 2: best tactically sound, strategically smart rebellion, that's how.

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Speaker 3: We do this.

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Speaker 2: When Luthen is like, no, we're gonna get tremendously bloodied

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Speaker 2: and we're going to have to and the Gores meanwhile,

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Speaker 2: they're saying, well, it's our life, it's our planet, you know,

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Speaker 2: we can do what we want. Yeah, so what what

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Speaker 2: is the way forward here? And how did you react

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Speaker 2: to this kind of ideological struggle? I think on the

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Speaker 2: first watch, you're really like cassieh my god, like, what

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Speaker 2: are we doing here? Like you're supposed to be you're

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Speaker 2: the rebel, Like you're the guy we're following to bat

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Speaker 2: and you really feel for the leader who's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: like you're not a revolutionary.

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Speaker 5: And I'm not fucking impressed. Okay, I loved it. But

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Speaker 5: then on the second watch, I think covertly the best

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Speaker 5: moment it's actually when Kathy and Luthern meet at Luthen's

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Speaker 5: shop and Kathy and storms in there like that's the

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Speaker 5: crux of all of like this batch of three episodes.

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Speaker 5: But Luthen has this great line where he's like, is

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Speaker 5: this everything? Like you abandoning the entire plan everything.

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Speaker 2: Because because I went and talked to Bix and you

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Speaker 2: didn't know about it, and now you're mad, like.

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Speaker 5: On the phone, it's everything, and you have drawn a

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Speaker 5: line in the sand. And that is really the difference

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Speaker 5: here is to Luthen, everything is everything. There really is

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Speaker 5: no end point to or there's nothing that would stop

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Speaker 5: him from trying to achieve this goal of liberation. He'll

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Speaker 5: give his He's already said he's gonna give his life.

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Speaker 5: We know, we've known that since the end of season one.

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Speaker 5: Lutheran's gonna die. He's prepared for it mentally, even though

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Speaker 5: it seems as if he's he's terrified of it happening,

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Speaker 5: which is fair. You know, it's scary to die. But

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Speaker 5: Cassian is an idealist, and Cassian, I think, believes so

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Speaker 5: much in his ability to survive, and he survives by

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Speaker 5: calculated movements that he doesn't see failure as a possibility

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Speaker 5: because he won't entertain ideas that could possibly fail. And

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Speaker 5: that's not everything that's really guarded and very safe I was.

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Speaker 2: To add to that. Cassian talks a lot in these

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Speaker 2: episodes about his luck, and I think, to your point,

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Speaker 2: Cassian takes calculated risks, and I think he's just a

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Speaker 2: guy who feels like I could walk away from the

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Speaker 2: table now up. Well, my luck is very thin at

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Speaker 2: this point, and I don't know when it will run out,

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Speaker 2: and I have bis to go home to. Whereas to

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Speaker 2: your point, Luthen is, like I decided long ago, I'm

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Speaker 2: giving it, I'm burning it all to bring down the empire.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there's nothing for Luthen to go home to at

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Speaker 4: this point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I also think Cassian. What's kind of heartbreaking

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Speaker 3: about Cassian saying no to the Gorman Revolutionist that we

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Speaker 3: saw him inspire a rebel in the first scene of

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Speaker 3: the first episode. You know, we saw him talk to

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Speaker 3: someone as a rebel leader, as someone who can inspire,

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Speaker 3: that can get somebody to step in the circle and

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Speaker 3: take that chance on a thing that they feel is right,

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Speaker 3: even if they may die in the process. We don't

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Speaker 3: know what happened to that woman in the first episode.

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Speaker 3: Did she make it out, was their retribution?

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Speaker 7: We have no.

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Speaker 3: Idea Cassian's in a similar situation. Here. But I think

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Speaker 3: we have to remember there has been a year gap.

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Speaker 3: He has been on many missions through the course of

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Speaker 3: that year. But I think this is a tough spot

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Speaker 3: to be in because, as you said, Jason, he has

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Speaker 3: Bix on one hand. On the other hand, there doesn't

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Speaker 3: seem to be any sort of endgame in sight. There

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Speaker 3: doesn't even seem to be any sort of like win

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Speaker 3: in sight at the moment, like this is a pretty.

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Speaker 1: For the for the Gormans, or for overall.

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Speaker 6: For this.

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Speaker 3: For all these operations he's been running for Luthan, Like

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Speaker 3: where is it all going? Like this is sort of

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Speaker 3: the dip of the rebellion, right, They're in this low

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Speaker 3: before potentially something like Gorman blows up and the rebellion

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Speaker 3: takes off. And so I think for Cassie and this

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Speaker 3: is like, emotionally and as a rebel, a very low

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Speaker 3: place to be in. And so to be sent to

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Speaker 3: Gorman and see these like bright eyed idealists be like

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Speaker 3: we're gonna stand up to the Empire, We're gonna go public,

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Speaker 3: and we're gonna take him down. Like I think he's

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Speaker 3: just really disheartened and jaded at this point. I think

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Speaker 3: something has turned him into the rebel at the start

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Speaker 3: has been dimmed, and we're seeing that in the set

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Speaker 3: of episodes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you bring up a great point there, Boo,

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Speaker 4: because I think it's that cynical nature. It's the transition

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Speaker 4: that we're seeing from and Or in season one to

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Speaker 4: and Or in Rogue one. And at the moment he

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Speaker 4: is ironically the cynicism and emotional disconnect of Lutheran is

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Speaker 4: rubbing off on him. But he has not gotten to

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Speaker 4: that point yet where he's like, oh, well, if the

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Speaker 4: whole of Gorman burns because it goes wrong, that will

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Speaker 4: just be a great call to the Empire. He's not

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Speaker 4: there yet, you know, He's he is still in a

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Speaker 4: place where he has someone that he loves at home.

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Speaker 4: But I think something really interesting about where we find

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Speaker 4: and Or this episode is in that crosshairs of the

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Speaker 4: rebellion being something that he cares about and is almost

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Speaker 4: like his that he just has to do. And then

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Speaker 4: obviously having Bis at home, which is the thing that

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Speaker 4: drives him. And there's that great moment where you know,

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Speaker 4: and Or so he doesn't want to do this. He's

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Speaker 4: turning his nose up at the Gorms because they're not

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Speaker 4: ready and they need to do it properly. But then

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Speaker 4: there's that great moment where Big says, you know, you

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Speaker 4: didn't kill that boy because we're war. You killed him

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Speaker 4: because he saw my face.

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Speaker 8: So's own personal kind of relationship to Bix and to

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Speaker 8: what is driving him can still cause him to behave

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Speaker 8: in ways that are abhorrent or ways that are violent

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Speaker 8: and unnecessary, but he's not willing to just risk himself

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Speaker 8: for the larger cause, and he wants.

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Speaker 4: To do anything he can to prepare well. And that

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Speaker 4: reminds you. I think that's really interesting totally.

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Speaker 5: And it reminds me of the moment on the ship

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Speaker 5: between Luthin and and Or where Andrew is like, you know,

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Speaker 5: I'm thinking like a soldier, like think like a leader.

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Speaker 1: Want to go home.

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Speaker 4: They're like, are you now how long have you been?

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Speaker 5: I follow the orders? We that's mission accomplished. A leader

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Speaker 5: is you know, eighteen steps ahead, and you know, how

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Speaker 5: do we get out? And it's just and to a

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Speaker 5: boost earlier point like we've seen him be a leader,

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Speaker 5: And I think it's really interesting for the show to

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Speaker 5: take a step back and be like, yeah, sometimes you backslide,

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Speaker 5: like sometimes Auliu's faith. Sometimes it's it's scary moving forward.

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Speaker 5: And I think ending the first batch of episodes with

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Speaker 5: and Or like really referring to Bix as his home

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Speaker 5: and then seeing Bix's ability to hide whatever's going on

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Speaker 5: with her from Andor is incredible, like Cassy and has

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Speaker 5: no clue really how far down bixes and I like

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Speaker 5: for him, it does seem like he's ready to sort

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Speaker 5: of get out until we get to that final moment

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Speaker 5: where Luthern Luthan's like, hey, like this is really your issue,

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Speaker 5: Like Bix is your I was the problem because that's

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Speaker 5: that's not quite what it is. But like you, guys,

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Speaker 5: if you're going to be a team, if you are

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Speaker 5: going to be acting in the world, you need to

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Speaker 5: figure out what your partner's doing and get under control.

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Speaker 5: Guess it's like it's up to you, and he's like,

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Speaker 5: it's absolutely not Abu.

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Speaker 4: No, this is like you please. Well I would also

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Speaker 4: say as well, I think that there is just a

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Speaker 4: messiness here with and Or that is easier for him

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Speaker 4: to stay in. His personal messiness and his personal reasons

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Speaker 4: for the rebellion are much easier for him to be

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Speaker 4: driven by than taking the risk of losing an entire city,

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Speaker 4: you know. I also think there's that element to it.

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Speaker 4: It's not just about not wanting to do something wrong.

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Speaker 4: But I don't know if he's ready to be the

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Speaker 4: one to say, hey, go for it, guys.

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Speaker 2: I think part of this is I think what you're

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Speaker 2: talking about, Rosie is in part it arises from Cassian's

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Speaker 2: role in the rebellion. He's not Luthan in the belly

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Speaker 2: of the Beast, who never or I should say, who

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Speaker 2: rarely goes to the front.

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Speaker 1: He's in both worlds.

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Speaker 2: So he's meeting these people, he's looking at them in

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Speaker 2: the eye, he's shaking hands with them, he's connecting emotionally

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Speaker 2: with the Bellhak.

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Speaker 1: He's like doing all these things.

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Speaker 2: So it's real to him, these people who are gonna

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Speaker 2: die that, you know, like that's he's gonna watch them.

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Speaker 2: He knows what the cost is going to be because

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Speaker 2: he's been on both sides of it.

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Speaker 5: He's seen the imperial machine.

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Speaker 2: He's seen the kind of hard ware they have, the

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Speaker 2: kind of force they can bring to bear on these

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Speaker 2: regular people who are fucking linen weavers, who are like,

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Speaker 2: I want to do something, yea. Luthan has the benefit

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Speaker 2: of distance. He can sit back and say politically, looking

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Speaker 2: at the board, this helps us, so we need to

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Speaker 2: do it. And I think part of the tension between

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Speaker 2: the two is that is that Caasian has to interact

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Speaker 2: with these he knows we're gonna die. And that's why,

355
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Speaker 2: you know, what's the Luthan giving Bis and cassion the

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Speaker 2: the revenge mission on the Imperial Doctor.

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Speaker 1: Is like it's almost like a coach.

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Speaker 2: Of a sports team, like criticize and criticize and criticize

359
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Speaker 2: and criticizing a player and then being like, now I'm

360
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Speaker 2: going to give you the ball, go ahead. And it's

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Speaker 2: it's Luthan's way of saying, I see what's happening with you, guys.

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Speaker 2: I see how much you're hurting and how much you've

363
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Speaker 2: been traumatized by all of this and how hard everything is.

364
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Speaker 2: Here's one for you. This doesn't advance really our political

365
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,160
Speaker 2: goals that much. I guess it does because you're stopping

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Speaker 2: this torture technology from going wider into the into the

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Speaker 2: Imperial regime.

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Speaker 1: But this is really.

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Speaker 2: One for them personally. Oh yeah, And that's so I

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Speaker 2: found that very interesting that he's like, here's one, here's

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Speaker 2: a risk I'm willing to take so that you guys can.

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Speaker 1: Feel better about what you're doing. Mm hmm, go kill

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Speaker 1: that guy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think there's an interesting conversation to be

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Speaker 3: had with the way Luthen then also operates with Vell

376
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Speaker 3: and Sinta and keeping them apart for a year, And

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Speaker 3: it makes me wonder how intentional that is and seeing

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Speaker 3: that like when they are together they're less effective. Is

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Speaker 3: he doing some sort of pressure use their love as

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Speaker 3: a pressure cooker to make them more effective. I think

381
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Speaker 3: Luthan is playing these two couples in different and similar

382
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Speaker 3: ways in order to achieve Is it like, like you're saying,

383
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Speaker 3: Jason like a coach, he is coaching these like subordinates, uh,

384
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Speaker 3: towards his his own larger goals, but one.

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Speaker 1: Only one would only need to look at Will.

386
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Speaker 2: If kind of romance in the field is affecting affecting

387
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Speaker 2: your ability?

388
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Speaker 9: Vision was so upset with Will, But I'm actually I'm

389
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Speaker 9: glad we I'm glad we talked about Will because I

390
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Speaker 9: actually think some of the most affecting stuff this episode

391
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Speaker 9: is the stuff with Will and Saw.

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Speaker 5: So after we come up break Oh, yes, take.

393
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Speaker 4: Joel, Let's take a break and then we'll come back and.

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Speaker 10: Talk about that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and we're back Joel and Aboo, how did the

396
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Speaker 4: kind of saw origin story and the Will and Saw moments, Like,

397
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Speaker 4: what did that kind of say to you about where

398
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Speaker 4: the rebellion is at and the different sides of the

399
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Speaker 4: rebellion that we kind of explore this episode.

400
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Speaker 3: I think I'm just.

401
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 5: I'm so over I was overwhelmed out the right word.

402
00:21:55,240 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 5: I am so impressed. Seems Mundane invested me just in

403
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 5: in the world that they've created and the ways they're

404
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 5: exploring spycraft, right like Cereal's Cereal's a illusion to a

405
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,919
Speaker 5: good spy is so he is a good spy, but

406
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Speaker 5: again blinded by love, completely unable to see that, like

407
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 5: your image of what's happening is so limited. And then

408
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 5: to sort of to go to Cinta, who we saw

409
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Speaker 5: was she was a radical, like she didn't have time

410
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Speaker 5: to look at her partner because she was like, I

411
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Speaker 5: can't I literally can't take my eyes off the mission.

412
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Speaker 5: I have to be observing this person. I know you're

413
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Speaker 5: here and I can hear your hurting and I can't

414
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Speaker 5: address that because I'm in the mission. Just totally radical

415
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Speaker 5: and to see her sort of come back and the

416
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Speaker 5: way like this is the first time. I think Vell

417
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Speaker 5: was definitely the leader, but Cinta was always just so

418
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Speaker 5: like agro and determined. Is so interesting to see her

419
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,479
Speaker 5: comeback wounded and watch a fell sort of fill up

420
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Speaker 5: space and be like, no, that's my woman. We're not dealing.

421
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 5: She's like, don't even worry. I'm gonna talk to the

422
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Speaker 5: boss for you, like we're gonna get this figured out.

423
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Speaker 5: And to see that ending, I just it kind of

424
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Speaker 5: makes you wonder whether all of this is worth it.

425
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Speaker 5: And again, we have the ability of knowing where everything's going,

426
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Speaker 5: and so that gives us a lot of advantage as viewers.

427
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Speaker 5: But I think if you had no idea shout out

428
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 5: to people in twenty years, you get to watch this

429
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Speaker 5: in whatever order they want to. We don't know where

430
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 5: this leads. You wonder like, Okay, we lost one of

431
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 5: our best at a time when she was making a

432
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Speaker 5: turn into becoming something much more than she was before.

433
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Speaker 5: She's not just a soldier, and now she's thinks she

434
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Speaker 5: is doing the leadership, thinking of like long term, what

435
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 5: are we gonna do? How do we ground ourselves? How

436
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 5: do I be a full person? And still attack this mission,

437
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 5: and we see it too with and or fully adopting

438
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 5: like characters but also being concerned, like everybody is hurt.

439
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,439
Speaker 5: We get so many Achilles heels this episode. Everybody's hurting

440
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 5: so deeply, and to this point there doesn't seem to

441
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 5: be a completed plan in sight that you're like, man,

442
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 5: I could I want to bail at this point when

443
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 5: we listen. I think that is I would.

444
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,199
Speaker 1: Say that there is a plan at this point, but

445
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: you don't.

446
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 3: You're not gonna tell Santa.

447
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: You're not gonna tell sent about it. You're not gonna

448
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 1: tell about it.

449
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 5: The existence of one without being able to run or

450
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 5: see it, it might well not exist.

451
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah to the people on the ground. Well,

452
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 4: I think that's why the Will and Sore stuff is

453
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 4: really great because Saul connects with Will on a much

454
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 4: more straightforward level where he's basically just like I was

455
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 4: raised to die and you have seen now that I

456
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 4: will kill somebody if they are a traitor. But but

457
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 4: if you join me, you can actually take an action

458
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 4: that will instantly make you feel like you are part

459
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 4: of something important and big. And that is a direct action,

460
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 4: that's a violence that is being part of a crew

461
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 4: who are on the kind of front lines in a

462
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 4: way that Lutheran or even Synta and Vell and especially

463
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 4: vel as like a you know, a fancy mon moth

464
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:23,640
Speaker 4: my cousin lady, they can't really understand. But Soul speaks

465
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 4: to Will on this really real level, gives us this

466
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 4: origin story in a way that we haven't really heard

467
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 4: before about his ridium, uh you know, addiction that came

468
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 4: from him basically meant to die from it, but then

469
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 4: he found the strength in it. And I think that

470
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 4: that speaks to how a lot of young people can

471
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 4: be radicalized in these moments where like they don't feel

472
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 4: like they know what the plan is, They don't know

473
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 4: what their future is, they don't know what it holds.

474
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 4: They don't know what they get to have, like Will

475
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 4: getting to have does he get to live on big

476
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 4: wheat and have a beautiful girlfriend or is that a

477
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 4: danger to the rebellion. He doesn't really know where he

478
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 4: stands or what part of his of the rebellion is his.

479
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 4: And I think that's the way that Sauw connects with

480
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 4: him there, Like I think that that is a really

481
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 4: interesting kind of more direct in.

482
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 3: It is well Saw's sales pitch is very simple compared

483
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 3: to someone like Luthen. Like Luthern or Bell might approach

484
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 3: you and be like, here's the five D chess game

485
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 3: we're playing.

486
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: Are you in?

487
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 3: And Saw hands you a hammer and says hammer, nail,

488
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 3: hit it exactly, you know, And those are two very

489
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 3: different sales pitches for effectively the same rebellion.

490
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, and if you think about the way, you know,

491
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 5: we were sort of talking, I was contemplating, like, let's

492
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 5: compare like Saw and Will's like emergence into the rebellion,

493
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 5: and jaes to me the salient point of like, yeah,

494
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 5: everybody's kind of in the same boat, Like they lost

495
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 5: to a lot of people. They're hurting, they're trying to

496
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 5: fight back. I think what I found really interesting in

497
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 5: this moment is like Saw compares his or or the

498
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 5: release that doing the drugs he's taking to being able

499
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 5: to be with his sister. If you're not like a clone.

500
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 5: Wars fans start that's where he first appeared. He had

501
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 5: a sister named Stela, and so it comes to help

502
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 5: him like navigate the warfront. He thinks he's going to

503
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 5: sacrifice himself. His sister actually ends up dying, and it's

504
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 5: the only time we've heard in all of the Saw

505
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 5: reappearances about Stela, and it's not even to hear her name,

506
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 5: but just say she's my sister and she loves me.

507
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 5: And he can only say this high as hell to

508
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 5: a kid who's practically a stranger. I think Saw as

509
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 5: the guy on the front who's like already half mad

510
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 5: and falling apart, but still so strong in his conviction

511
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 5: that he makes significant changes for the rebellion is again,

512
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 5: you just do get to see all sides of it

513
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 5: in this show, and it just makes everything that comes

514
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 5: after so much more right.

515
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: What is hard to gain sight of is the fact

516
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 2: that it's three bby four bb wife five bby. It

517
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 2: is not clear to the vast majority of people in

518
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: the galaxy that won the empire is bad. And two,

519
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: if the empire is bad, there is not a political

520
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 2: solution to the empire being bad. Maybe the maybe the empire,

521
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 2: Maybe the emperor decides, you know what, let's bring some

522
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: aspects of the republic back, or maybe there's a maybe

523
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 2: there's a way to do this peacefully. Right, And I

524
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 2: think that part of the madness of Saw is he

525
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: might literally be the first person, the first group of

526
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: people around him to say this is there's no easy

527
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: way out of this. There's no political solution. There's only

528
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: you can only react violently to this injustice, and that's

529
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: what I'm going to do. And I think part of

530
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 2: what's driven him this crazy is the fact that like

531
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 2: he was out there alone on this, on the edge

532
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 2: of this for the longest time, and even now at

533
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 2: three bby three years for the Battle of Yavn and

534
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: the rebellion just kind of beginning to call us. You know,

535
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: most people, even in the rebellion, don't probably are thinking,

536
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: maybe there's a way to force the emperor to the table,

537
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: right and maybe there's if you know, like do.

538
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 4: You get in their saws not coming with us, Like

539
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 4: they've made that decision already, and he knows that, he

540
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 4: always knows he's always going to be on the outs.

541
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 4: He's always going to be on the outside. But it's

542
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 4: kind of ironic because then if we skip forward to

543
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 4: a new hope, you know, the way that Luke and

544
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 4: Leah and hand deal with the rebellion is through violence,

545
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,719
Speaker 4: and what is essentially, I mean, deal with the empire

546
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,239
Speaker 4: is through violence, And what is essentially, you know, if

547
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 4: the Proud the time was talking about it would be terrorism.

548
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 4: And they actually take on a lot of Saws kind

549
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 4: of ways that he works, but he will never get

550
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 4: the credit.

551
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 5: We can even want to revenge of the city when

552
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 5: Padme is I forget who she's talking to you, but

553
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 5: she's like, hey, I don't think the Senate that we

554
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 5: work for exists anymore. This thing we believe in no

555
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 5: longer exists, and so you kind of again, you're sort

556
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 5: of left the feeling of like Saw's reaction is a

557
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 5: rational one, which is just so, but it is.

558
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: Rational, and I think that's what's so. What I one

559
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: of the things I love about this show is seeing

560
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: how all these disparate pieces of the rebellion are working together.

561
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 2: You have Saw, who is taking action, was taking action

562
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 2: before anybody else and is a necessary agitator and first

563
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: like frontline actor to do the most dangerous, crazy suicide

564
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: quasi suicidal shit that the rebellion needs at this point.

565
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: Then you have Cassian, who like floats between these kind

566
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: of front line and under the water kind of world.

567
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 2: You have Luthan who lives in the belly of the

568
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: beast and is like organizing all of this but can't

569
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: tell anybody. And then I think, crucially you have Man Mathma,

570
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: who I think is probably one of these people who

571
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 2: at this point still thinks there's got to be a

572
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: political solution to this. There's got to be a speech

573
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 2: that I can make that why, there's got to be

574
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: a vote that There's got to be a way that

575
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: I can corral.

576
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 5: Vote people here to make yeah, that.

577
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 2: We can claw back some of this power and is

578
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 2: and her awakening to like oh fuck, there isn't is fascinating.

579
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 2: And then there's Luthan's relationship to Man. You know, Luthan

580
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: I think is the only one at this point who

581
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 2: understands we're going to war. But I need Mon because

582
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: I can't put Sagerera on television and have him make

583
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: a fucking speech to the galaxy right.

584
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 5: To the ground. I am sending every citizen of the

585
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 5: galaxy of that of Tito.

586
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 4: You know, a word in you know, you're saying some

587
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 4: really real ship. He's like, you know, and not for

588
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 4: the saying, and everyone's watching in there like but I'm

589
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 4: saying I can't do this song like please.

590
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: So what do you think about about these various about

591
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: these various tactics that each of these cells are are

592
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 2: carrying out, the various directions they're taking, and how do

593
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 2: you react to the way those things work together or

594
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: don't Yeah a.

595
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 4: Boo, give us your insight, because you pulled some really

596
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 4: cool stuff out of these episodes about this.

597
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I I do want to say, I

598
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 3: think the politics conversation is really underscored in these episodes.

599
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 3: With that montage of man trying to canvas votes to

600
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 3: go against the po RD and just getting stonewalled constantly.

601
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,239
Speaker 3: One of the small all lines that really struck with me.

602
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: As we've established this is just a sci fi fantasy

603
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 3: show and has no bearing on real life from larger

604
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 3: come on, but if I were to hypothetically connect it

605
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 3: to larger events. She's speaking to that one senator walking

606
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 3: down the hallway and talking about statistics. You know, the

607
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 3: prime numbers are going up? Are we creating criminals? Are

608
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 3: stopping them? And the senator's response is, well, number, schmumbers.

609
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 3: They can all be manipulated. I believe what I feel,

610
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 3: and that just that hit me hard because it's that's

611
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 3: just like that's the Internet. You know, people just believe

612
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: what they feel. On the Internet and numbers and truth

613
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 3: and the elusiveness of truth as we all know, feels

614
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 3: like so hard to grasp and like anyone who's been

615
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 3: at a Thanksgiving dinner and tried to argue with an

616
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 3: uncle about the facts of a thing and just gotten

617
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: like emotional responses back. Well, I don't feel like that's true.

618
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 3: I don't feel this, I don't all that. So I

619
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 3: think the politics conversation is it's quite impactful in these

620
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 3: episodes as well. And I thought the mond montage it

621
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 3: was only there for like two minutes, but it really

622
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 3: resonated with me. And again, hypothetically speaking, could have connected

623
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 3: to reality if the show was about reality at all, Joel.

624
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 5: I was gonna say the both and like Cassie and

625
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 5: breaking down to the Gorman why their plan sucks, and

626
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 5: then and then and then poor Santa and Velle coming

627
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 5: in and being like, yeah, so that really does suck.

628
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 5: They're like they were like teachers, where they're like, okay,

629
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 5: so this part great, you pick the right location. I'm

630
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 5: giving you six minutes, max, that's all. If you don't

631
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 5: get everything, don't fucking worry about it. That's not what

632
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 5: we're doing. This is like an opening statement like just

633
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 5: calm down. I think really there's such I think, especially

634
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 5: in like American filmmaking, there's such a very loud like

635
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 5: when you rebel per earlier point, it's violence, it's it's

636
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 5: immediate action. It's like you have to let people know

637
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 5: they're wrong. And that's completely not what a rebellion is

638
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 5: built on at all. Your politics, your morals, don't matter

639
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 5: as much as your tactics and your ability to maneuver

640
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 5: against your opponent. And I think highlighting that and showing

641
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 5: how difficult those things, Like when we get to the

642
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 5: Gorman massacre, which again is part of Legends, and we'll

643
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 5: get to in a minute, I just think, like it

644
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,959
Speaker 5: may you understand what they're up against, and they set

645
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 5: that up so well, and again it pays off in

646
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 5: Rogue One, like the way this show just continues to

647
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 5: pay off and build into this world we already know.

648
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 5: It's so brilliant. I really feel for the folks suffering

649
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 5: because I think I put in the group chat the

650
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 5: you started too late. It's just so soul crushing. It's

651
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 5: the most demorl thing because you can't fix, you can't

652
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 5: go back in time. There's nothing you can do, and

653
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 5: essentially to say your only way through is to suffer

654
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,240
Speaker 5: deeply because you started too late. It's just it's so impossible,

655
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 5: it's so hard. I'm very concerned about our next few episodes.

656
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 2: Let's let's flip to the other side and contrast some

657
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 2: styles in UH in UH leadership between, you know, between

658
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 2: Cyril and and Deirdre. I think, for me, I think

659
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 2: they have very two, very unique styles in service of

660
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 2: imperial fascism. I think Cyril is clearly an idealist. He

661
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: really believes the empire is fucking great. And when people

662
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 2: pop up on Gorman saying the Empire sucks, they're from

663
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 2: somewhere else. They're coming in and they're trying to stir

664
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 2: things up here, stir up emotions because everybody can see

665
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 2: that the empire's great. And then you have Deirdre, who is

666
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 2: just like I want to be hunting bad guys, like

667
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 2: I don't even really want to be doing this. It's

668
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 2: not even about career for her, because she's been told

669
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: multiple times by party guys, this is great for your

670
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 2: fucking career, and she's like, I don't.

671
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 4: I don't.

672
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 1: That's not what I do. That's not what I do.

673
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 1: I do.

674
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 2: I'm a hunter, and it's interesting to me to watch

675
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 2: these two people delude themselves to various degrees about what

676
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: the empire is really about. How did you respond to

677
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 2: those two and they're absolutely perverse relationship?

678
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 1: Sorry with you.

679
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 3: Shouts to the one hour that Cyril got with his girlfriends.

680
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 3: By the way, in.

681
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: The dark, there's a lot of.

682
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 4: Fanfit going on in the discord about what was going

683
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 4: on in that. I'm glad we did not see it.

684
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:56,919
Speaker 1: Those two.

685
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 4: I don't want to know about that.

686
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't want to know what that good for him. Yeah,

687
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, I do want to say,

688
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 3: as obviously evil as these two are, shouts to Cyril

689
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 3: for doing a great job as a spy. I had

690
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 3: so much fun watching him just be a bit of

691
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 3: a drama queen. You know, are you searching my office?

692
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:20,959
Speaker 4: Why?

693
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 5: Why?

694
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 3: Why would there be a listening thing like device in

695
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 3: my office? Just throwing up pretty good, pretty good? Yeah,

696
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 3: I don't know that I could keep that up, and

697
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 3: if I sp agents came into my office all of

698
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 3: a sudden. Shots to him for doing that. But yes,

699
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 3: I think Jason, you bring up such an interesting point

700
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 3: because these two characters are really fun to watch because

701
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 3: they are so diluted in their own visions. Cyril obviously

702
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 3: a sent for his hot fascist girlfriend, but like he

703
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 3: to yours, as you said, to some extent, he doesn't

704
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 3: see a problem with the Empire, and in fact, like this,

705
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 3: this stability, uh, these whatever standards he is working on

706
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 3: at the Bureau are the standards to which the Empire

707
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 3: should be run, and this is the status quota him

708
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 3: is correct. So if if he were to be presented

709
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,720
Speaker 3: with an alternative at like just as you said, Jason,

710
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 3: I think he would he would brush it off as like, oh,

711
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 3: these are anomalies, this is not the norm. A normal

712
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 3: person likes the Empire like I do, is a fan

713
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 3: of the Empire. Ddre to me, I'm.

714
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: A little more.

715
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 3: I'm more. I'm curious about Dedra. I don't know that

716
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 3: I've gotten enough backstory to truly understand what her loyalty

717
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 3: to the Empire is. I understand her motivations to hunt

718
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 3: down the bad guys and hunt down Cassian in particular,

719
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 3: but I'm left with a bit of a question mark

720
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 3: on her larger loyalties too.

721
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 5: I have theories, Yeah, have theories. Okay, so we know

722
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 5: Didre grew up in an imperial kinder center, so she's raised.

723
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,479
Speaker 5: I think what we're looking at between Cyril and Dieitre

724
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 5: are two different types of indoctrination, right. I think Dedra

725
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 5: understands that this is the structure in which the only

726
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 5: structure that she understands. Right, she doesn't understand like a

727
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,760
Speaker 5: family structure. We don't see her. She'll have no girlfriends

728
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 5: or nothing, and she's completely shocked by her like reaction

729
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,959
Speaker 5: to Cyril. This is so foreign to her. I don't

730
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 5: think Dad's ever had a love interest before. She's been

731
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,879
Speaker 5: about the job and the mission. I think Cyril terrifies her.

732
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,919
Speaker 5: The feelings like the lights off, which is funny because

733
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 5: she's like in such a commanding position and he's like

734
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 5: only an hour and it's very like, oh, he's a scent.

735
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 5: But I really think what you're seeing is Dandre's fear

736
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 5: of like having to keep the secret from Cyril. I

737
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 5: think Dadre really wants to tap into her humanity and

738
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,800
Speaker 5: has no idea how to do it. She's on autopilot

739
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 5: and she doesn't listen to her bosses, be because I

740
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 5: think the only she like success is the only like

741
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 5: tangible thing she has. She understands like nobody in this

742
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 5: corporate imperial system cares for her or about her as

743
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 5: much as Cyril cares. Is that gonna stick around? Like

744
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 5: this guy could easily get killed tomorrow. He's a wild card.

745
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 5: He's not as smart as her. She's like, she can't

746
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 5: yet fully gonna be there, and all she has is

747
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 5: herself and this ability to show people this is what

748
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 5: I'm good at. I think she's so locked into that.

749
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 5: And he's terrifying to watch somebody who like, imagine she

750
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 5: would just switch to the side of the rebels where

751
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,320
Speaker 5: she could be a human, Like she mean, the greatest

752
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 5: asset ever. She's so she really cares at her job,

753
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 5: and she has such an understanding of how the empire works.

754
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 5: And then Cyril. Cyril has been begging for a chance

755
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 5: to showcase what he can do. And he has a

756
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 5: mother who may not show him any kind of respector love,

757
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:54,479
Speaker 5: but she loves the empire. She is like, listen, we

758
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 5: eat good, live good, course, not is everything? You should

759
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 5: have stayed here? Why would you ever wants every yea?

760
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 5: And so he's like, Okay, how do I win my

761
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,399
Speaker 5: mother's love and respect? You're the only thing I want

762
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 5: and like impress my super awesome girlfriend, which how is

763
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 5: that even happening? A really great spy all like he's

764
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 5: just the greatest day of his life. Is when they're like, hey,

765
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 5: you can move on to the next step of your missions.

766
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 5: And the fact that they see each other but not

767
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,359
Speaker 5: in such a way that they're able to like go

768
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 5: of these things that are holding both of them back

769
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 5: so much? Is do they are my favorite people to watch?

770
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 5: Like I love these characters. You're like, you are dumb,

771
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 5: but wow, like.

772
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 4: I do, I do think as well. There's like interesting

773
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 4: reflections between like these doesn't really need to keep Cyril

774
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 4: out of the whole plan, you know, like she could

775
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 4: just rather than being like, hey, you're just going there

776
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 4: to like keep an eye on them or whatever and

777
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 4: report back, there is a world where she could tell it.

778
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 4: But I think this kind of speaks to the way

779
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 4: that the rebellion as well, is in all these different small,

780
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 4: compartmentalized spaces, so people can't ruin other people's plans. But

781
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 4: Deirdre isn't really getting that as a rule from part

782
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 4: of Gas, She's doing that to herself. She's like, I've

783
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 4: got to keep this to myself because I need it

784
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 4: to work, you know. And I think again the nature

785
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 4: of how whatever side you're on this keeping secrets, this

786
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 4: not being honest with the people that you choose to

787
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 4: have in your life, there are like weird ramifications of that.

788
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 4: And I think, in the case of Deirdre and Cyril,

789
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 4: what's really funny to watch right now? I was like, actually,

790
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 4: Cyril is very, very fucking good at this, which none

791
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 4: of us saw coming. So how about you actually do

792
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 4: let him in and maybe you two work together and

793
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 4: this might work well.

794
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 3: This oh sorry, go ahead up, Well we might be

795
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 3: on the same track, Rosie. I wonder though, would that

796
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 3: burst cereals bubble of the Empire, because this isn't just

797
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 3: we're gonna take out the bad guys or take out

798
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 3: the rebel or take out the anomalies. This plan is

799
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 3: we're gonna take out innocence.

800
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we're gonna We're gonna.

801
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 3: You know, I don't think Deader can tell serial that

802
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 3: and still have serial people.

803
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 2: We're gonna mine this planet so that most of its

804
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 2: cities are destroyed, like this is that's what we're doing.

805
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 2: I will say, you know, uh, I think that there

806
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: is an interesting like overall existential tension between the Empire

807
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 2: and the rebellion that comes through in these relationships, and

808
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 2: that on the side of the Empire there it is

809
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 2: unquestionably more ordered, this centralized kind of structure, right, Like

810
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: I think you could. I think there's a way to

811
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 2: look at the Clone Wars and the Late Republic years

812
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 2: and say objectively, listen, that was not working, Like we

813
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,280
Speaker 2: had devastating wars across the galaxy, Like it was crazy,

814
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 2: it was not the the Emperor's key role in agitating

815
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 2: a lot of that aside, Like it kind of wasn't working, right,

816
00:44:58,440 --> 00:44:59,760
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people would.

817
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 1: Respond to that. At the same time.

818
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 2: In the Empire now, competency is not rewarded, is not

819
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: It's dangerous, Like, yes, Cyril is good at this, but

820
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: like him becoming too good at this is a threat

821
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 2: to what Deirdre is trying to do. Deirdre being too

822
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 2: good at this.

823
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: Is a threat to what Partigas is trying to do.

824
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 5: Part of Gas.

825
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: Being too good at this is a threat.

826
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 5: To what Critic is trying to do.

827
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: Klinic meanwhile, is in this fucking power struggle with mav Tarkin.

828
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 2: Both of them are trying to be best boy alongside

829
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,239
Speaker 2: Darth Vader to fucking the emperor. While you look at

830
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: the rebellion and it's a mess. There's a lot of arguments,

831
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 2: but I think the key thing there is one democracy.

832
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 2: You have to just accept it. It's going to be

833
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 2: mess here because there's gonna be disagreements, but hopefully, and

834
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 2: what is kind of happening is competency. The cream is

835
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: rising to the top of the rebellion, whereas on the

836
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 2: imperial side, don't be too good. You know, there's a

837
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 2: reason the stormtroopers miss all the time. There are people

838
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 2: who kind of suck that will just follow orders and

839
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: won't think too much about what they're trying to do.

840
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 2: Don't have too much ambition because that's a threat to

841
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 2: this entire thing that we're trying to.

842
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you speak to something really true there

843
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 4: as well, because in the rebellion they have a certain

844
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,399
Speaker 4: amount of leeway for people that they know on their

845
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 4: own missions. Like we see this tension growing with and Ors.

846
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 4: He's always off on his own mission. He's not telling

847
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 4: bigs Lutheran's trying to pit them against each other. But

848
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 4: it's and Or, So you kind of let him do

849
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 4: his thing. The imperial side does not have that. You

850
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 4: stay in your lane. You do what you do, and

851
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 4: you better not do it in a way that makes

852
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 4: other people look bad at the end of it all.

853
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 4: And this is not to make a moral suggestion that

854
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 4: it is to do with you know, doing the right thing.

855
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 4: But I think that the thing that holds a rebellion

856
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 4: together is there is a general understanding this is bad

857
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,839
Speaker 4: and we want it to get better. Whereas everyone on

858
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 4: the imperial side has their own version of what they're

859
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 4: looking for. Deirdre is always bringing up this idea of chaos.

860
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 4: We bring order, this is chaos. The empire always leads

861
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 4: on that. Like you said, with Cyril, I think that

862
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 4: man legitimately thinks that empire is doing a great job,

863
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 4: you know. But it's funny because then he is in

864
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 4: these situations where and we all know, Like when we

865
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 4: were recaving this, like I was honestly like getting you know,

866
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 4: I was seeing Cyril's kind of empathy to the Gorms,

867
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 4: and I was like, wait a minute, maybe he really

868
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 4: does believe this, and he does think he can help

869
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 4: them kind of find a path that is not their

870
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 4: just complete eradication. So it is interesting, but I think

871
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,280
Speaker 4: it's to do with the rebels have a shared wish,

872
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 4: which is how can we make this better? The empire

873
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,720
Speaker 4: is bad. Within the imperial side, it's just all people

874
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 4: who have their own agendas trying to rise up the

875
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 4: ranks to essentially gain power, which leads to you know,

876
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 4: the sith and the rule of the two and who's

877
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 4: at the top. So I think it's really well done.

878
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 4: But getting to see it on this granular, day to day,

879
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 4: almost like slice of life level, is why I think

880
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 4: and Or is an impeccably made show and it's bringing

881
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 4: something that is totally different than we've seen before.

882
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 2: Well that's a great segue. Let's take a quick break

883
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 2: and then welcome someone who does not think it's a

884
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 2: great show to a podcast.

885
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: To talk about why that mean. And we're back as always.

886
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 2: It's a breath of fresh air to welcome notorious Rogue

887
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: one hater super producer Aaron to critique Rogue one and

888
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 2: Or season two and give us his thoughts on the

889
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: series that we are all in agreement with. But it's

890
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 2: always great to having a poison point of view, and

891
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 2: so let's welcome erin to the show.

892
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: Aaron your thoughts.

893
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 11: I do feel like I'm a breath, a breath of

894
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 11: fresh air for all of you.

895
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 6: Is pumping out of those machines.

896
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 11: My sister, I will say, I think this is a

897
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 11: very good show. I do not think the show is

898
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,800
Speaker 11: untouchable in the way that I feel like I'm getting

899
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 11: pushed back, specifically from a boo who's.

900
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 1: Really I mean, I mean was like.

901
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 3: And I was like, I'm gonna block you never text

902
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 3: me again.

903
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: All Right?

904
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 11: My first question, what why have we made Bix a

905
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 11: punching bag like bis last last batch is like the

906
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 11: Imperial Officer attempts to actually assault her. Uh and that

907
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 11: is not even addressed in this set. Like she's still

908
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 11: dealing with the PTSD from the torture in season one.

909
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 11: She's now a drug like we have this hints that

910
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 11: she's addicted to some drug. We're concerned about it. It's

911
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 11: just like everything is happening to her.

912
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 3: I just want to say, Okay, the pylon began.

913
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:28,240
Speaker 7: I'm gonna say, first of all, I was gonna direct

914
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 7: this to Joel because she had had the she had

915
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 7: had the punching bag worry, but I think she changed

916
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 7: on that.

917
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 4: But actually, as you laid it out. I'm gonna I'm

918
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 4: gonna give you the sad, real talk. Nobody's talking about it,

919
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 4: nobody's dealing with it, because that's what it like when

920
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 4: you get sexually assaulted. No one deals with it, no

921
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 4: one talks about it. You deal with it by yourself,

922
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 4: and then you go to coping mechanisms like being on

923
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 4: drugs and just being very interior. And even though it

924
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 4: is depressing, I do think it's very realistic. And now

925
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,399
Speaker 4: let me go to Joel, who was the original punching bag.

926
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:00,479
Speaker 4: Accusa has changed.

927
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 5: I was concerned. I was concerned because we've seen Bix

928
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 5: down for a long time. Like if you were to

929
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 5: marathon this show, I think it's like the third set

930
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 5: of episodes in the back half of season one, all

931
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 5: the way to now where she has just been. It's

932
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 5: been a struggled city for her, has been tortured and she's

933
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 5: dealing with a lot. But here's what I think. One

934
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,279
Speaker 5: Tony g Man himself was like, Hey, women go through this.

935
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 5: It's crazy if we talk about war and we don't

936
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 5: explore sexual assault. It happens. It's about power, that is

937
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 5: an abuse of power. It happens Okay. What I loved

938
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 5: about this is like, oh this is this is just depression.

939
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 5: I've been there. I know I've been here. But Cooley

940
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 5: and TV messy house food everywhere, and then too, they

941
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 5: showcase Bix's strength in the best possible ways. She can

942
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 5: still read Luthan, a man almost no one can read.

943
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 5: It's like her and Claiya, who can read Luthen clearly

944
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 5: even in her And she's hiding this right, like, so

945
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 5: this is a person who wants to be better or

946
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 5: to appear better, but just really struggling. Like she she

947
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 5: cleans the whole house before Hubby gets back. She's like, oh,

948
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 5: you know, I knew you're gonna come back. I think

949
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 5: that her arc of recovery is vital, and her getting

950
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 5: her look back at the end made everything else worth it.

951
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 5: But she was like, it's only gonna seem like for

952
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,800
Speaker 5: Hevers that this bitch is back and better than ever.

953
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 5: She just had to kill this guy. I get it.

954
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 5: I love that for her. I don't think she's a

955
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 5: punching back. I think we saw a backslide from here.

956
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 5: We would definitely need to pause and question things. I

957
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 5: think she's got to go straightforward into please not death,

958
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 5: but maybe death going forward. But for now, I'm happy

959
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 5: with where she's at because she's she's back, baby.

960
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:48,720
Speaker 6: She's good.

961
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 11: If four horrible things happened to her, that's too much.

962
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 11: But these three and.

963
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 2: Next question, next question, the next question, I would just say, like, what, Aaron, Uh,

964
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,240
Speaker 2: why do you feel that surviving is weak?

965
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 11: I think it's not surviving is weak for her. I

966
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 11: think it's that the show has piled everything on her

967
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 11: and nothing on so many other characters.

968
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: Okay, disagree, but let's move on.

969
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 11: Next Curt discussion and a lot of bally who has

970
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 11: been made about this being like the most expensive Star

971
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 11: Wars project? Does this show need this high of a budget?

972
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 11: Do I really need the cafe scene to be in

973
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:38,239
Speaker 11: the food court of Grand Central Station twice? I mean,

974
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,720
Speaker 11: the hotel is nice, Do we need the separate lobby

975
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 11: and the room shots? Like, I'm worried. I'm worried if

976
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 11: this budget is so high and it doesn't have the

977
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 11: numbers they need, Disney will be disappointed and this will

978
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 11: not look well for future Star Wars.

979
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 2: The corporate the corporate comptroller has logged on, folks, Disney

980
00:53:58,160 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 2: accountant has.

981
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 6: Logged on for.

982
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 4: Cricket on the shoulder.

983
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:08,239
Speaker 3: And incredible interview. First studiohead, you got the job?

984
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 1: Aboo you we gonna say.

985
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 3: I was just gonna say, who the fuck cares? You

986
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:20,320
Speaker 3: can't put the money, bitch, this's got the money. Spend it, baby,

987
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 3: spend the money. Who cares? If we're gonna get stories

988
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,360
Speaker 3: like this that look this good and are acted this

989
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:30,839
Speaker 3: well and written so beautifully, sure, I don't. I don't care.

990
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,840
Speaker 3: This is a multi gazillion dollar corporation. And if they

991
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 3: can put out beautiful art like this and it costs

992
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 3: a ton of money, great, I want.

993
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:40,919
Speaker 5: To add an epe just say, Aaron, I hear you.

994
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 5: I can't thinking about the art. Okay, they don't find

995
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 5: art a second time if it flops. But here's what

996
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 5: I think. I think Disney has a firm understanding of

997
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 5: how critically successful this was gonna be. Tony Giroy is

998
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 5: a like media darling, like the media loves him. Plus

999
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 5: he's stupid talented, and so when you invest in a

1000
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 5: property like this, I think what they're doing is two things. One,

1001
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 5: they're like, we can do adult stuff. And if you're

1002
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 5: an adult who loves Star Wars and has been ready

1003
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 5: to grow up with Star Wars. Trust us. We've got

1004
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 5: some good stuff for you, which is necessary and great.

1005
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:16,359
Speaker 5: The second thing I think they do is I think

1006
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 5: they have set themselves up well for award season. Everybody

1007
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 5: loves an award and makes the board feel happy. We're

1008
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:27,399
Speaker 5: getting recognition that's dope. And finally, Disney loves the park.

1009
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 5: And if we can find new planets that people love to.

1010
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 10: Money baby looks like their response to Universal Epic Universe,

1011
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 10: kind of helios celestial, like Deco nineteen twenties.

1012
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 4: It's it that's being mined. I don't know, but Joel,

1013
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 4: I think you make a good point, Aaron, next question.

1014
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 11: All right, yeah, I agree one hundred percent. I think

1015
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 11: the best setting for a theme park is a slow

1016
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 11: political espionage thriller.

1017
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 6: That's all right.

1018
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 11: The next question, moving on, how are all of you

1019
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:09,360
Speaker 11: feeling about the time jump nature of these batches of episodes?

1020
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 6: I personally am not loving it.

1021
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 11: I it feels like the characters just get dropped into

1022
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 11: some new situation. So basically, we get seventy two hours

1023
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 11: of story and then we wait another eight thousand, six

1024
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,319
Speaker 11: hundred and eighty eight hours and the story comes back

1025
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:23,759
Speaker 11: to me.

1026
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 6: It seems a number storytelling.

1027
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 2: But let me, uh, let me, I think you must

1028
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:37,399
Speaker 2: hate Star Wars episode four, the nineteen seventy seven smash Hit,

1029
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 2: which drops us cold into the aftermath of a battle

1030
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 2: that we did not see, that comes on the tale

1031
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 2: of a Clone war that we did not see, that

1032
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 2: we only get the Clone war blah blah blah blah

1033
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 2: blah and.

1034
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: The squirrel Like, this is it?

1035
00:56:57,239 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 2: Listen, everybody's mileers may vary, some people may not like it.

1036
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 2: I think this is Star Wars in miniature. This is

1037
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 2: what it is media res. It opens up in the

1038
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 2: middle of the action or after the action, sometimes as

1039
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 2: characters pick up the pieces. So for me, this is

1040
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 2: kind of an essential Star Wars structure, this kind of

1041
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 2: jumping and dropping into events where you're like, wait, what's happening.

1042
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:23,640
Speaker 2: But of course, like, some people may not like it,

1043
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 2: and that's absolutely fine, But that's my reaction.

1044
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 5: Is this is a miniature.

1045
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 1: This is Star Wars adminiature.

1046
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 5: I for sure heard people share this sentiment and a

1047
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 5: lot of people were saying that they felt confused. They

1048
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,160
Speaker 5: were like, well, wait, wait and it killed somebody who

1049
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 5: and and why?

1050
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 11: I think, what's Will doing on the planet. What saw

1051
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 11: in the first place, the Rhino.

1052
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 5: I just think the show that requires photos show and

1053
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 5: watched the show, I really pay attention to the dialogue.

1054
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 5: A lot is happening, but I think it it for

1055
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 5: this structure what it really does, because they were like,

1056
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 5: originally they were gonna do five seasons, and they were

1057
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 5: like Tony said, exactly, just way too long. I'm done,

1058
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 5: I'm tired. Let's just let's do it too uh So

1059
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 5: he set this up to push us straight into rogue one.

1060
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 5: To me, I love seeing the way how much people

1061
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 5: unravel or advance in the course of a year, how

1062
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 5: much has changed it almost and how much has stayed

1063
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 5: the same. You're getting like a really in depth looking

1064
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 5: like politics are slow as hell, Oh my god, like man,

1065
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 5: Mathma is crawling compared to one like and she's just like,

1066
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 5: so could you vote? Know it's in your best No, cool, cool, cool?

1067
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 5: You you down like, help me out here. And I

1068
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 5: think being able to see that contrasting juxtaposition while also

1069
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 5: building again Luthen being shaken from where we were in

1070
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 5: those last few episodes to hear you're like, oh it's

1071
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 5: getting bad, and that gives you a sense of time

1072
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 5: that is so specific. I just I think it's beautiful.

1073
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 5: I love a good structure. I think it's happening. I

1074
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 5: like it.

1075
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, And if anything, it sounds like you want more

1076
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 3: of this shows.

1077
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:23,479
Speaker 12: Enough six hundred plus more hours of the show.

1078
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 4: I will also quickly say I think right now, in

1079
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 4: this moment, viewers are more primed for this than ever

1080
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 4: because this is essentially the same format as the recall trend.

1081
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 4: Like when you jump into screen five, you're meeting new

1082
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 4: characters who are living with the legacy of something that

1083
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 4: happened fifteen years ago. You don't really know how it

1084
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 4: impacts them. You don't really understand their lives, and as

1085
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:47,680
Speaker 4: you go through you learn it. And I do think

1086
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 4: that the storytelling within this and the conceptual structure of hey,

1087
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 4: we trust the audience, it's a year later, how things changed,

1088
00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 4: might be jarring by it. Also think it's interesting and

1089
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 4: I think it harks back to more of Tony Gilroy's

1090
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 4: like non big budget studio work and more in general,

1091
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 4: like in the cinema where you just dropped into twenty

1092
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 4: four hours of somebody's life, or you know, something like Run, Lola, Run,

1093
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 4: where it's like you're constantly reliving the same thing over

1094
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 4: and over again. I think the audience is ready for

1095
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 4: more experimental storytelling, and I do think that and Or

1096
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 4: has been honest about that being what season two is

1097
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 4: and has delivered in my opinion, though, I do think

1098
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 4: it's fair to say, like Joelle, you it was crunching

1099
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 4: five seasons into two. So if it doesn't work for you,

1100
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 4: doesn't work next question.

1101
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 11: Just like you on this one, just like Run, Lola Run.

1102
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 11: I feel like I'm living. I feel like I'm reliving

1103
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 11: this four v one over and over again. So I

1104
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 11: think this show has a lot of storylines going on

1105
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 11: at once. Some of them I love. I love the

1106
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:54,880
Speaker 11: forged art with the listening device. I love Claya so

1107
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 11: much like my favorite character. I think this season so

1108
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 11: far she's literally getting her hands blood. But one of

1109
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 11: the things that really threw me was this arms interception

1110
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 11: where the guy from the town hall, who in episode

1111
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 11: four I felt like was really radical and wanted them

1112
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 11: to be doing more, suddenly shows up and they're like,

1113
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 11: get out of here, get out of here, and he doesn't.

1114
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 11: He won't leave, and that causes the shooting, which causes

1115
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:20,360
Speaker 11: the killing, which causes the chaos and then that same

1116
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,120
Speaker 11: guy is like, I'll carry her, I'll bring her to

1117
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 11: your transport.

1118
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 6: What happened there? I like, literally am confused.

1119
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 2: I feel like it was pretty clear, but maybe I'm wrong.

1120
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:33,760
Speaker 2: I mean, the whole point of the Gorman Front was this.

1121
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 2: You have civilians who have political disagreements within in domestic

1122
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 2: Gorman politics, right that existed, probably a conservative party and

1123
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:46,520
Speaker 2: a more progressive party within what they're trying to do.

1124
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 2: On top of that, you have the Empire coming in,

1125
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 2: pressing on those existing fissures, and this group of this

1126
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 2: community trying to come together to figure out how to

1127
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 2: address this. Yes, this guy who spoke was, you know,

1128
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 2: see like let's do something. At the same time, it's

1129
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 2: very clear that he was cut out of this mission.

1130
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 2: He was not involved in this. He was not read

1131
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 2: into this mission, and so when he wanders into it,

1132
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 2: he's like, wait, you guys are fucking doing some attack

1133
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 2: the empire shit without me. So he wants to be involved,

1134
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 2: but of course he shouldn't be because he doesn't know

1135
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 2: what we're doing, and him, you know, carrying the wounded

1136
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 2: at the end is just simply a reaction of the

1137
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 2: fact that we're They're all in this together, despite the

1138
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 2: fact that he wasn't involved in this. I think it

1139
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 2: was simply the fact that a mission was moving forward

1140
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 2: without him, despite the fact that he is one of

1141
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 2: these voices that has been agitating for action against the Empire.

1142
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 2: So I think it was simply that you know, this

1143
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,360
Speaker 2: is the Gorman Front. Is just that it's a front

1144
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 2: composed of multiple groups stitched together. It's not one homogeneous

1145
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 2: mass that all believes the same thing and wants to

1146
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 2: do this same thing. So I think this was just

1147
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 2: this was those kind of schisms coming to the forefront

1148
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 2: at the worst possible time.

1149
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 1: That's how I read it.

1150
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 4: Thank you, Ann Wow, Thanks Saran, appreciate you.

1151
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 2: You don't need to play the Imperial March before he comes.

1152
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: He comes off of his.

1153
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 2: Shuttle at the guards.

1154
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:28,240
Speaker 5: Smoke coming down the walk.

1155
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 6: Mondu Dun Dun.

1156
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 4: If anyone wants to draw some Aaron Fana, please please hell.

1157
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 2: This has been a fantastic conversation for those of you interested.

1158
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 2: I put together a letterbox list of films that I

1159
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 2: feel like are a great primer and influence.

1160
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:58,320
Speaker 12: Perhaps two chapter Yes, Sly absolutely check out The Army

1161
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 12: of Shadows and The Sorrow and the Pity specifically if

1162
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 12: you want to see, like, uh, some historical based movies

1163
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:07,959
Speaker 12: that I feel like are the start of the Pity

1164
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 12: is a documentary that I feel like directly tie into

1165
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 12: the stuff we see on Gorman.

1166
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 2: You can find that on any tw three r K

1167
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 2: on letterbox or just search my name. Coming up next

1168
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:21,080
Speaker 2: on Extra Vision this Monday, we have thoughts on the

1169
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 2: new Marvel blockbuster, The Thunderbolts Asterisk. Then Tuesday, our reaction

1170
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 2: to the Last of Us episode four, and of course,

1171
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 2: despite Aaron's please, we are.

1172
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 5: Returning to the world.

1173
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 8: What's that right?

1174
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:36,600
Speaker 5: That's it for this episode.

1175
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 1: Listening by.

1176
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 2: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsi and Rosie

1177
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:48,920
Speaker 2: Night and is a production of iHeart Podcast.

1178
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:52,880
Speaker 4: Our executive producers are Joe Alminique and Aaron Kletman.

1179
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abusafar.

1180
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:59,480
Speaker 4: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bay Wack.

1181
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 2: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

1182
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 2: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

1183
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 4: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and

1184
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 4: Heidi our discord moderator