1 00:00:14,916 --> 00:00:33,196 Speaker 1: Pushkin. I was taking work meetings in bed and my 2 00:00:33,236 --> 00:00:36,596 Speaker 1: mom started banging on the door, and she was banging 3 00:00:36,636 --> 00:00:41,356 Speaker 1: on the door so like the wall was shaking, and 4 00:00:41,356 --> 00:00:42,916 Speaker 1: so I muted myself and I was like, Mom, what's 5 00:00:42,956 --> 00:00:45,796 Speaker 1: going on. She's like, get off your call right now. 6 00:00:47,156 --> 00:00:48,956 Speaker 1: I was like, great, I want to yell at for something. 7 00:00:50,636 --> 00:00:52,436 Speaker 1: And I went outside and my mom was on the phone, 8 00:00:52,516 --> 00:00:55,036 Speaker 1: which I thought was really weird. It's like, it's so early, 9 00:00:55,116 --> 00:00:58,556 Speaker 1: why is she awake? And like, why is she like screaming? 10 00:00:59,556 --> 00:01:01,236 Speaker 1: And then she just screamed at me. They're dead. They're 11 00:01:01,236 --> 00:01:04,996 Speaker 1: both dead. Quinn Lewis had been on a work call 12 00:01:05,076 --> 00:01:07,356 Speaker 1: when she found out her nineteen year old sister Dixie, 13 00:01:07,516 --> 00:01:11,156 Speaker 1: had been killed in a car crash. Dixie's boyfriend, Ross 14 00:01:11,196 --> 00:01:15,556 Speaker 1: had also died. Quinn was devastated, and the months that 15 00:01:15,676 --> 00:01:17,876 Speaker 1: followed she was left to gree the loss of her 16 00:01:17,916 --> 00:01:21,556 Speaker 1: sister and the future relationship she had envisioned for them. 17 00:01:21,636 --> 00:01:24,316 Speaker 1: We would always bring up how different we were from 18 00:01:24,316 --> 00:01:27,196 Speaker 1: each other, were such different people, and I wonder how 19 00:01:27,236 --> 00:01:31,036 Speaker 1: true that was. I wonder how how much that was 20 00:01:31,076 --> 00:01:33,916 Speaker 1: like us just trying to exist in the same space 21 00:01:34,316 --> 00:01:40,236 Speaker 1: and feel different and feel noticeable. And I felt in 22 00:01:40,236 --> 00:01:43,516 Speaker 1: the last few years that that was changing, and it 23 00:01:43,556 --> 00:01:51,356 Speaker 1: felt like that there the future felt intertwined, is how 24 00:01:51,396 --> 00:01:54,436 Speaker 1: I would put it. It felt like we were going 25 00:01:54,436 --> 00:02:04,956 Speaker 1: somewhere together. On today's episode Losing Dixie, I'm Maya Shunker 26 00:02:05,156 --> 00:02:07,556 Speaker 1: and this is a slight change of plans, a show 27 00:02:07,556 --> 00:02:10,196 Speaker 1: about who we are and who come in the face 28 00:02:10,316 --> 00:02:16,116 Speaker 1: of a big change. I've known the Lewis family for 29 00:02:16,196 --> 00:02:19,836 Speaker 1: many years now and consider them dear friends. The parents, 30 00:02:19,916 --> 00:02:23,756 Speaker 1: Michael and Tabitha, and their children, Quinn, who's twenty two, 31 00:02:24,116 --> 00:02:27,516 Speaker 1: her younger sister, Dixie, and Walker, their fifteen year old 32 00:02:27,556 --> 00:02:31,076 Speaker 1: little brother. At the time of the accident, Dixie was 33 00:02:31,116 --> 00:02:34,276 Speaker 1: a freshman at Pomona College and a star athlete who 34 00:02:34,356 --> 00:02:37,116 Speaker 1: had been recruited to play softball and had big dreams 35 00:02:37,156 --> 00:02:40,596 Speaker 1: for her future. When Quinn and I sat down to talk, 36 00:02:40,676 --> 00:02:43,956 Speaker 1: it had been seven months since Dixie died. We started 37 00:02:43,996 --> 00:02:46,676 Speaker 1: our conversation by talking about what she and Dixie were 38 00:02:46,716 --> 00:02:49,796 Speaker 1: like as kids. Her nickname when she was little was Lovebug. 39 00:02:50,236 --> 00:02:53,316 Speaker 1: She would follow my mom and me from room to 40 00:02:53,396 --> 00:02:55,156 Speaker 1: room in the house when she learned how to walk, 41 00:02:55,996 --> 00:02:59,276 Speaker 1: because she loved being around us so much and looked 42 00:02:59,316 --> 00:03:03,676 Speaker 1: up to us so much. She loved being hugged and 43 00:03:04,676 --> 00:03:11,596 Speaker 1: loved everything I did. We would play games that were 44 00:03:11,596 --> 00:03:16,396 Speaker 1: basically just her mimicking me. She just she wanted. She 45 00:03:16,436 --> 00:03:18,996 Speaker 1: wanted to do everything I wanted to do. You know, 46 00:03:19,036 --> 00:03:21,916 Speaker 1: getting my hand me downs were more exciting than new clothes. 47 00:03:23,396 --> 00:03:26,636 Speaker 1: We lived in the same room for you know, the 48 00:03:26,716 --> 00:03:29,836 Speaker 1: first twelve years of my life. We had bunk beds. 49 00:03:30,316 --> 00:03:32,076 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we fell asleep together every night, 50 00:03:32,836 --> 00:03:40,636 Speaker 1: talking and listening to audiobooks. And I remember once we 51 00:03:40,636 --> 00:03:43,876 Speaker 1: were at in Bermuda and for whatever reason, I was 52 00:03:43,876 --> 00:03:46,596 Speaker 1: getting bullied. I barely remember the story because I was 53 00:03:46,596 --> 00:03:49,076 Speaker 1: no little There are these boys in the pool, and 54 00:03:50,276 --> 00:03:53,076 Speaker 1: Dixie stood up for me by peeing in both of 55 00:03:53,116 --> 00:03:55,556 Speaker 1: the pools that the boys had been going into and 56 00:03:55,556 --> 00:04:00,796 Speaker 1: then informing them as such. Yeah, she was a tough 57 00:04:00,836 --> 00:04:03,996 Speaker 1: little kid. She was a really tough little kid. I 58 00:04:04,036 --> 00:04:06,996 Speaker 1: love that little sister standing at her big sister. That's 59 00:04:07,036 --> 00:04:13,756 Speaker 1: really sweet. How did your sisterly dynamic evolve over time? 60 00:04:15,676 --> 00:04:24,956 Speaker 1: I think Dixie came out loving and doting and so vulnerable. 61 00:04:27,796 --> 00:04:30,036 Speaker 1: She was so excited by the fact that she could 62 00:04:30,076 --> 00:04:31,556 Speaker 1: just you know, breathe in the same room as you 63 00:04:32,876 --> 00:04:37,316 Speaker 1: when she was really little, and that really changed over time. 64 00:04:38,116 --> 00:04:41,276 Speaker 1: And I think part of that is because, you know, 65 00:04:41,636 --> 00:04:45,076 Speaker 1: we were sisters, so I was three years older, and 66 00:04:45,156 --> 00:04:48,116 Speaker 1: I didn't want her to play with the friends that 67 00:04:48,156 --> 00:04:51,556 Speaker 1: I had decided were mine, or you know, she couldn't 68 00:04:51,596 --> 00:04:53,396 Speaker 1: have the things I had, even though there's nothing she 69 00:04:53,436 --> 00:05:01,076 Speaker 1: wanted more. And I think, I, you know, my mom 70 00:05:01,116 --> 00:05:02,916 Speaker 1: would tell me that you need to be nicer to 71 00:05:02,956 --> 00:05:05,196 Speaker 1: her and stop excluding her so much, and you know, 72 00:05:05,236 --> 00:05:08,716 Speaker 1: she just wants to be your friend. And sometimes I'd 73 00:05:08,756 --> 00:05:11,316 Speaker 1: let her and then I could take it all away. 74 00:05:12,196 --> 00:05:16,116 Speaker 1: And I think as she got older, she hardened a 75 00:05:16,116 --> 00:05:20,236 Speaker 1: little bit. I mean, as we all do, so I 76 00:05:20,276 --> 00:05:25,876 Speaker 1: think there was definitely not a rift, but you know, 77 00:05:25,916 --> 00:05:29,076 Speaker 1: we didn't talk to each other about things. She was 78 00:05:29,116 --> 00:05:31,716 Speaker 1: not the person that if something happened, at least, you know, 79 00:05:31,796 --> 00:05:34,076 Speaker 1: towards the end of middle school and early high school, 80 00:05:34,156 --> 00:05:38,636 Speaker 1: that I felt like I could talk to. And she 81 00:05:38,716 --> 00:05:43,436 Speaker 1: developed a mean streak. She was very competitive and very 82 00:05:43,516 --> 00:05:47,396 Speaker 1: much wanted to be great. I had very little patience 83 00:05:47,516 --> 00:05:50,916 Speaker 1: for people who would get in the way of that. 84 00:05:53,436 --> 00:05:54,916 Speaker 1: You know. The problem, the problem that she had that 85 00:05:54,956 --> 00:05:57,076 Speaker 1: I never had was coaches would come up to my 86 00:05:57,076 --> 00:05:59,356 Speaker 1: parents and say, your daughter has to stop making her 87 00:05:59,356 --> 00:06:04,756 Speaker 1: teammates cry and the dugout when they screw up because 88 00:06:04,756 --> 00:06:07,436 Speaker 1: she cared so much. Right, I think it's the same 89 00:06:07,636 --> 00:06:09,436 Speaker 1: impulse that made her follow me from room to room, 90 00:06:10,276 --> 00:06:13,756 Speaker 1: that made her so invested in the rest of life too. 91 00:06:14,476 --> 00:06:18,836 Speaker 1: Tell me more about that. She was extremely driven and 92 00:06:18,916 --> 00:06:24,516 Speaker 1: extremely focused, especially in ways that defined her self separate 93 00:06:24,636 --> 00:06:28,596 Speaker 1: from me. We very much defined ourselves in opposition to 94 00:06:28,636 --> 00:06:31,756 Speaker 1: one another, especially like in our household. You know, my family. 95 00:06:31,796 --> 00:06:34,916 Speaker 1: My family is full of big personalities. It is there's 96 00:06:34,956 --> 00:06:36,796 Speaker 1: no house big enough to contain us solve, which I 97 00:06:36,796 --> 00:06:39,636 Speaker 1: think is part of what made it really hard to 98 00:06:39,676 --> 00:06:46,836 Speaker 1: grow up together. You know, she this is the kid 99 00:06:46,876 --> 00:06:50,676 Speaker 1: who saw me going to a fancy private high school 100 00:06:50,876 --> 00:06:53,076 Speaker 1: and it was like, screw that, I'm going to the 101 00:06:54,196 --> 00:06:58,796 Speaker 1: you know, local public school with thirty five kids and 102 00:06:58,916 --> 00:07:02,356 Speaker 1: loved it. All the things that she spent the most 103 00:07:02,356 --> 00:07:05,636 Speaker 1: time on were things that I didn't do, and I 104 00:07:05,716 --> 00:07:08,196 Speaker 1: was the same way, Right. I didn't try to claim 105 00:07:08,236 --> 00:07:13,156 Speaker 1: softball after she lame softwall and things like that, and we, 106 00:07:13,316 --> 00:07:15,396 Speaker 1: you know, we would always bring up how different we 107 00:07:15,396 --> 00:07:19,716 Speaker 1: were from each other. And I felt in the last 108 00:07:19,716 --> 00:07:22,636 Speaker 1: few years that was something that was changing, and there 109 00:07:22,716 --> 00:07:29,396 Speaker 1: was more room, and it felt like the future felt intertwined, 110 00:07:29,996 --> 00:07:32,916 Speaker 1: is how I would put it. It felt like we 111 00:07:32,916 --> 00:07:40,676 Speaker 1: were going somewhere together. Yeah, can you bring me back 112 00:07:40,716 --> 00:07:45,916 Speaker 1: to the morning you found out Dixie had passed away. 113 00:07:46,436 --> 00:07:48,476 Speaker 1: I just turned twenty two, So my mom came down 114 00:07:48,476 --> 00:07:53,596 Speaker 1: for my birthday. And there's a tire little taco shop 115 00:07:53,796 --> 00:07:57,236 Speaker 1: across the street that's so good, and we went there 116 00:07:57,316 --> 00:08:00,196 Speaker 1: on Tuesday night because it's taco Tuesdays and my mom 117 00:08:00,236 --> 00:08:02,956 Speaker 1: loves mescal and she had a bunch of mescal and 118 00:08:03,076 --> 00:08:06,276 Speaker 1: we ran across the highway and went to bed, and 119 00:08:06,476 --> 00:08:09,756 Speaker 1: I woke up the next morning it felt really really early, 120 00:08:10,716 --> 00:08:14,076 Speaker 1: and my mom started banging on the door, and she 121 00:08:14,156 --> 00:08:16,636 Speaker 1: was banging on the door so like the wall was shaking, 122 00:08:17,356 --> 00:08:18,836 Speaker 1: and so I muted myself and I was like, Mom, 123 00:08:18,836 --> 00:08:21,916 Speaker 1: what's going on. She's like, get off your call right now. 124 00:08:23,116 --> 00:08:24,636 Speaker 1: And I was like, great, I want to yell at 125 00:08:24,636 --> 00:08:27,916 Speaker 1: for something. And I went outside and my mom was 126 00:08:27,916 --> 00:08:30,276 Speaker 1: on the phone, which I thought was really weird. It's 127 00:08:30,276 --> 00:08:32,156 Speaker 1: like it's so early, why is she awake? And like 128 00:08:32,196 --> 00:08:36,436 Speaker 1: why is she like screaming? And then she just screamed 129 00:08:36,436 --> 00:08:40,236 Speaker 1: at me either dead. They're both dead, And I was like, 130 00:08:40,276 --> 00:08:44,716 Speaker 1: what are you what are you talking about? Like, I 131 00:08:44,876 --> 00:08:55,476 Speaker 1: was so confused, And she told me that she was 132 00:08:55,516 --> 00:08:59,996 Speaker 1: on the phone with Dixie's boyfriend's mother. His name is Ross, 133 00:09:00,196 --> 00:09:02,756 Speaker 1: and her name was Gina. She was on the phone 134 00:09:02,796 --> 00:09:06,036 Speaker 1: with Gina, and Gina said that at two in the 135 00:09:06,076 --> 00:09:13,116 Speaker 1: morning the night before, a sheriff or police officer had 136 00:09:13,116 --> 00:09:17,356 Speaker 1: showed up at their door to inform them that their 137 00:09:17,396 --> 00:09:20,196 Speaker 1: son had been in a car accident, that there had 138 00:09:20,476 --> 00:09:22,156 Speaker 1: been a pastor in the car, and then they had 139 00:09:22,156 --> 00:09:28,916 Speaker 1: both died, So we knew that was true. We also 140 00:09:29,036 --> 00:09:31,236 Speaker 1: knew that Dixie and Ross had been in Tahoe together 141 00:09:31,316 --> 00:09:34,196 Speaker 1: on a couple's trip, so it was very unlikely that 142 00:09:34,196 --> 00:09:37,676 Speaker 1: anyone else would have been in the car. And Gina 143 00:09:37,716 --> 00:09:39,316 Speaker 1: had been trying to get ahold of my mom all night. 144 00:09:41,156 --> 00:09:43,836 Speaker 1: So we sat down on the couch and we're like, Okay, well, 145 00:09:43,836 --> 00:09:47,636 Speaker 1: what if there was a car accident and Dixie's just hurt, 146 00:09:48,516 --> 00:09:52,316 Speaker 1: or what if you know, they're mistaken and we actually 147 00:09:52,316 --> 00:09:55,116 Speaker 1: need to get in contact with whatever police department is 148 00:09:55,116 --> 00:09:57,756 Speaker 1: in the area of Tahoe she's in. So we spent 149 00:09:57,796 --> 00:10:01,116 Speaker 1: the next few hours doing that I called like every 150 00:10:01,156 --> 00:10:04,116 Speaker 1: hospital I could possibly think of. My mom's losing her 151 00:10:04,156 --> 00:10:08,796 Speaker 1: mind on the couch, like what is happening? We can't 152 00:10:08,796 --> 00:10:11,996 Speaker 1: get a old of my dad, which was horrible. I 153 00:10:11,996 --> 00:10:13,956 Speaker 1: called him like I think twenty seven times when I 154 00:10:13,996 --> 00:10:17,356 Speaker 1: took the phone records, and I finally got ahold of 155 00:10:17,396 --> 00:10:19,756 Speaker 1: the Berkeley Police Department around seven in the morning, and 156 00:10:19,796 --> 00:10:23,156 Speaker 1: I was like, hey, so someone is calling us and 157 00:10:23,236 --> 00:10:27,636 Speaker 1: telling us that Dixie Lee Lewis has been killed in 158 00:10:27,636 --> 00:10:30,356 Speaker 1: a car accident. And she says one of your officers 159 00:10:30,636 --> 00:10:34,996 Speaker 1: was dispatched to our house. Is this true? Like do 160 00:10:35,036 --> 00:10:37,516 Speaker 1: you have any records of this? And he's like, I 161 00:10:37,556 --> 00:10:39,916 Speaker 1: have no information, but like I will go figure out 162 00:10:39,956 --> 00:10:43,556 Speaker 1: everything I can go figure out, And then we just 163 00:10:43,636 --> 00:10:45,116 Speaker 1: kept trying to get ahold of my dad. He was 164 00:10:45,156 --> 00:10:51,236 Speaker 1: still sleeping, so by the time that the Berkeley Police 165 00:10:51,236 --> 00:10:54,676 Speaker 1: Department called me back, it was probably like nine in 166 00:10:54,716 --> 00:10:57,356 Speaker 1: the morning, and he said, I have a number for 167 00:10:57,396 --> 00:10:59,156 Speaker 1: you to call, and he transferred me to the Platter 168 00:10:59,236 --> 00:11:03,876 Speaker 1: County Coroner's office, and I gave the phone to my 169 00:11:03,916 --> 00:11:09,476 Speaker 1: mom and the coroner's name was Hannah and she confirmed 170 00:11:09,476 --> 00:11:11,156 Speaker 1: that she and my sister's body on a metal slab 171 00:11:11,196 --> 00:11:16,076 Speaker 1: in front of her, and that's when the world fall apart. 172 00:11:25,956 --> 00:11:29,356 Speaker 1: And the next two hours were awful because I had 173 00:11:29,396 --> 00:11:35,316 Speaker 1: to get mom home and my dad was finally picking 174 00:11:35,396 --> 00:11:42,276 Speaker 1: up and he was shattered, and he kept telling me 175 00:11:42,356 --> 00:11:46,076 Speaker 1: that it was his worst fear. He kept saying that 176 00:11:46,076 --> 00:11:52,276 Speaker 1: this is my worst fear. And I realized, like usually 177 00:11:52,276 --> 00:11:54,316 Speaker 1: when something goes wrong, he's the person I called to 178 00:11:54,356 --> 00:11:59,036 Speaker 1: help fix it. When I realized that I had to 179 00:11:59,036 --> 00:12:03,716 Speaker 1: get Mom home by myself, so I called the travel 180 00:12:03,756 --> 00:12:09,556 Speaker 1: agent and I got us tickets home. When it finally 181 00:12:09,636 --> 00:12:12,356 Speaker 1: came time to leave, we got on the plane and 182 00:12:12,436 --> 00:12:17,076 Speaker 1: went home, and the entire plane ride, my mom was crying, 183 00:12:17,076 --> 00:12:23,036 Speaker 1: because of course she was. I felt like it was weird. 184 00:12:23,076 --> 00:12:24,876 Speaker 1: I was like all these self conscious about the whole thing, 185 00:12:24,996 --> 00:12:29,956 Speaker 1: like you would expect when something like this happens, to 186 00:12:30,036 --> 00:12:35,996 Speaker 1: feel totally absorbed and to think, you know, nothing else 187 00:12:36,076 --> 00:12:39,676 Speaker 1: matters everything, you know, who cares about the world, Who 188 00:12:39,676 --> 00:12:41,876 Speaker 1: cares about what people think? I was so self conscious 189 00:12:42,316 --> 00:12:44,276 Speaker 1: the whole time, and the flight attendant kept looking over 190 00:12:44,796 --> 00:12:48,436 Speaker 1: very concerned. I was so embarrassing up to the bathroom 191 00:12:48,476 --> 00:12:49,996 Speaker 1: because I didn't want anyone else. I don't want to 192 00:12:49,996 --> 00:12:53,116 Speaker 1: make eye contact with all the people behind us. When 193 00:12:53,116 --> 00:12:55,636 Speaker 1: we finally got off the plane and we got home 194 00:12:55,916 --> 00:13:00,956 Speaker 1: and walked into the house and my dad and Walker 195 00:13:01,196 --> 00:13:06,316 Speaker 1: were into his room crying, and we decided all to 196 00:13:06,356 --> 00:13:08,356 Speaker 1: sit in my parents' bed for the rest of the 197 00:13:08,436 --> 00:13:20,396 Speaker 1: day and we just cried and talked about Dixie. The 198 00:13:20,516 --> 00:13:25,556 Speaker 1: decision feel real. It feels like all of a sudden, 199 00:13:25,596 --> 00:13:32,476 Speaker 1: your brain has all these compartments and it almost it 200 00:13:32,516 --> 00:13:34,556 Speaker 1: feels that you had a lobotomy. It's like part of 201 00:13:34,556 --> 00:13:36,676 Speaker 1: my brain is not communicating to the other part of 202 00:13:36,716 --> 00:13:39,076 Speaker 1: my brain that like the things that are happening around 203 00:13:39,076 --> 00:13:42,716 Speaker 1: you are reality. That like the I am in my feet, 204 00:13:43,196 --> 00:13:46,876 Speaker 1: like feeling the forces of gravity tether me to the earth, 205 00:13:47,956 --> 00:13:50,956 Speaker 1: and like the sky is blue and this is up 206 00:13:50,996 --> 00:13:53,996 Speaker 1: and that is down, and I know these things that 207 00:13:54,036 --> 00:13:55,916 Speaker 1: I feel that I know these things right. I think 208 00:13:55,916 --> 00:14:00,036 Speaker 1: that there's a lot of like emotion in knowing something 209 00:14:00,156 --> 00:14:02,356 Speaker 1: is true, Like there's like there's an actual, like physical 210 00:14:02,396 --> 00:14:05,676 Speaker 1: feeling that had gone. Like I knew that the sky 211 00:14:05,756 --> 00:14:07,596 Speaker 1: was blue, I knew that gravity was happening, but I 212 00:14:07,636 --> 00:14:12,556 Speaker 1: didn't like feel that truth existed anymore in my body. 213 00:14:12,916 --> 00:14:16,916 Speaker 1: I didn't feel that the things that were happening. In 214 00:14:16,916 --> 00:14:20,636 Speaker 1: the sadness, I was feeling like could be how the 215 00:14:20,676 --> 00:14:27,196 Speaker 1: world was going to be now? And I thought it 216 00:14:27,236 --> 00:14:29,156 Speaker 1: was weird that I didn't lose my appetite. Also, I 217 00:14:29,196 --> 00:14:32,876 Speaker 1: felt so strange. I felt like I was doing it wrong. 218 00:14:33,636 --> 00:14:35,956 Speaker 1: I was starving when we got home and my dad's 219 00:14:35,956 --> 00:14:37,556 Speaker 1: friend brought a sandwiches and I was the only person 220 00:14:37,596 --> 00:14:42,716 Speaker 1: who could eat. Yeah. I don't know why, but it 221 00:14:42,756 --> 00:14:44,676 Speaker 1: really bothered me. I was like, why do I want 222 00:14:44,676 --> 00:14:49,876 Speaker 1: this tuna sandwich so badly? You would? You were carrying 223 00:14:50,116 --> 00:14:54,156 Speaker 1: some kind of expectations even in that acute phase around 224 00:14:54,156 --> 00:15:00,036 Speaker 1: how you ought to be grieving. Is that right, tons? Yeah? 225 00:15:00,076 --> 00:15:04,796 Speaker 1: I mean I've never lost anyone, right. The only people 226 00:15:04,796 --> 00:15:06,636 Speaker 1: I know who have died in my family were my 227 00:15:06,676 --> 00:15:10,196 Speaker 1: great grandparents on my mom's side, All for our grandparents 228 00:15:10,236 --> 00:15:14,756 Speaker 1: are still alive. Like death as never has not something 229 00:15:14,916 --> 00:15:18,596 Speaker 1: I've had to encounter before. Other bad things have happened. 230 00:15:18,796 --> 00:15:20,796 Speaker 1: I've not had a perfect life by any stretch of 231 00:15:20,836 --> 00:15:29,556 Speaker 1: the imagination, but to have this be my first encounter 232 00:15:29,596 --> 00:15:32,596 Speaker 1: with death and I haven't be Dixie like she was 233 00:15:32,716 --> 00:15:37,836 Speaker 1: so strong the thing I kept thinking of the whole like, 234 00:15:37,996 --> 00:15:39,716 Speaker 1: and I still think think about this all the time. 235 00:15:39,716 --> 00:15:41,156 Speaker 1: It is like what it felt like physically when she 236 00:15:41,236 --> 00:15:45,276 Speaker 1: hugged you. She was so dense her like she she's 237 00:15:45,316 --> 00:15:49,396 Speaker 1: a college athlete. She you know, could bench press more 238 00:15:49,436 --> 00:15:54,196 Speaker 1: than her boyfriend. Um, she's a beast. And when she 239 00:15:54,276 --> 00:15:58,156 Speaker 1: hugged you, her body becasus pure muscle. Was like a really, 240 00:15:58,196 --> 00:16:01,836 Speaker 1: really dense feeling. It feels, it feels like nothing else. 241 00:16:04,436 --> 00:16:09,396 Speaker 1: And I just couldn't understand how someone who's so strong 242 00:16:09,956 --> 00:16:17,796 Speaker 1: and so forceful and so ready to make the world 243 00:16:17,876 --> 00:16:23,996 Speaker 1: hers could be killed by an eighteen wheeler. That made 244 00:16:24,036 --> 00:16:27,796 Speaker 1: no sense. And I think to make sense of that. 245 00:16:28,076 --> 00:16:30,556 Speaker 1: You know, I still find myself picturing what the crash 246 00:16:30,676 --> 00:16:33,356 Speaker 1: must have looked like. I walked myself through it all 247 00:16:33,396 --> 00:16:36,116 Speaker 1: the time. You know, she was in the passenger seat, 248 00:16:36,436 --> 00:16:39,276 Speaker 1: very both going fifty five miles an hour. It was Tahoe, 249 00:16:39,316 --> 00:16:43,196 Speaker 1: so I assume the road was winding, although I've never been. 250 00:16:45,236 --> 00:16:49,836 Speaker 1: It was a two lane highway essentially, and the eighteen 251 00:16:49,836 --> 00:16:52,836 Speaker 1: wheeler was coming the other way, and for whatever reason, 252 00:16:53,556 --> 00:17:00,396 Speaker 1: Ross crossed the double yellow line, and I think about what, 253 00:17:00,516 --> 00:17:02,316 Speaker 1: you know, I hope she was looking down on her phone. 254 00:17:04,116 --> 00:17:08,276 Speaker 1: I hope she didn't look up through the windshield. The 255 00:17:08,356 --> 00:17:11,756 Speaker 1: scariest is when I picture her looking up and seeing 256 00:17:11,756 --> 00:17:14,876 Speaker 1: the eighteen while they're coming at them and like gasping 257 00:17:17,596 --> 00:17:19,436 Speaker 1: half the time. That's how I picture it, and that 258 00:17:19,516 --> 00:17:24,636 Speaker 1: really scars me. And like I mean, she was wearing 259 00:17:24,636 --> 00:17:29,116 Speaker 1: a seatbelt. Neither of them was intoxicated. It was three pm, 260 00:17:29,156 --> 00:17:33,596 Speaker 1: it was sunny. There is no reason that should have happened. 261 00:17:35,276 --> 00:17:37,676 Speaker 1: Out of all the people's whose bodies could be destroyed 262 00:17:37,676 --> 00:17:42,156 Speaker 1: by force, it just felt like hers would be immune 263 00:17:42,196 --> 00:17:46,836 Speaker 1: to that. She was too strong for it. I think 264 00:17:46,876 --> 00:17:54,796 Speaker 1: about it all the time. You know what you're what 265 00:17:54,916 --> 00:18:00,196 Speaker 1: you're sharing with me right now is bringing me back 266 00:18:00,276 --> 00:18:06,276 Speaker 1: to the night of Dixie's memorial service, which fittingly was 267 00:18:06,276 --> 00:18:09,636 Speaker 1: on a softball diamond, right which is where Dixie would 268 00:18:09,636 --> 00:18:13,076 Speaker 1: have felt most at home. And the reason it's bringing 269 00:18:13,076 --> 00:18:16,196 Speaker 1: me back is that you you shared you shared a 270 00:18:16,316 --> 00:18:21,396 Speaker 1: very similar sentiment, and you were talking about how challenging, 271 00:18:21,476 --> 00:18:26,196 Speaker 1: how jarring it was for your brain to accept Dixie's death. 272 00:18:27,876 --> 00:18:31,916 Speaker 1: You know, when we experienced trauma, it can take time 273 00:18:31,996 --> 00:18:34,956 Speaker 1: for our subconscious to catch up. You know, you were 274 00:18:34,956 --> 00:18:39,036 Speaker 1: talking about it feeling like you had a lobotomy. It's 275 00:18:39,076 --> 00:18:42,876 Speaker 1: as if our minds are fragmented. Part of you knows 276 00:18:42,916 --> 00:18:47,756 Speaker 1: Dixie's gone. Another part, the one that's bound up in 277 00:18:47,876 --> 00:18:52,196 Speaker 1: your memories, your emotions, your expectations, your dreams of her future, 278 00:18:52,676 --> 00:18:57,836 Speaker 1: that part truly thinks Dixie's still here. I got home 279 00:18:57,876 --> 00:19:03,516 Speaker 1: from college after maybe the hardest master of my life, 280 00:19:04,196 --> 00:19:08,076 Speaker 1: and for weeks I was so excited to come home. 281 00:19:08,596 --> 00:19:12,636 Speaker 1: I was so tired, and then I started packing and 282 00:19:12,756 --> 00:19:19,116 Speaker 1: I realized I was gonna get home. I was going 283 00:19:19,156 --> 00:19:24,916 Speaker 1: to pull into the driveway, opened the front door, and 284 00:19:25,036 --> 00:19:31,956 Speaker 1: she wouldn't be there. And I stayed in bed after 285 00:19:31,996 --> 00:19:38,076 Speaker 1: that for four hours. It still feels unreal a lot 286 00:19:38,116 --> 00:19:47,556 Speaker 1: of the time. Yeah, it feels like she's such a 287 00:19:47,556 --> 00:19:52,356 Speaker 1: big part of who I am. That like something about 288 00:19:52,396 --> 00:19:57,476 Speaker 1: how we grew up put us in opposition, and because 289 00:19:57,516 --> 00:20:00,676 Speaker 1: of that, like that is a force I to find 290 00:20:00,716 --> 00:20:16,836 Speaker 1: myself against and missing that is so all consuming. You 291 00:20:16,916 --> 00:20:19,996 Speaker 1: mentioned that Dixie is such a big part of who 292 00:20:20,036 --> 00:20:24,596 Speaker 1: you are, and her loss feels all consuming. And I 293 00:20:24,716 --> 00:20:28,476 Speaker 1: recently talked to one of the UK's leading experts on grief. 294 00:20:28,516 --> 00:20:31,476 Speaker 1: Her name is Julia Samuel, and one thing she points 295 00:20:31,476 --> 00:20:34,356 Speaker 1: out is that when we lose someone in our lives, 296 00:20:34,956 --> 00:20:38,516 Speaker 1: it can alter our relationship with ourselves because our self 297 00:20:38,556 --> 00:20:42,436 Speaker 1: identities are so entwined with that person, and so their 298 00:20:42,556 --> 00:20:46,756 Speaker 1: loss ends up leaving a hole in our self structure. 299 00:20:48,036 --> 00:20:49,916 Speaker 1: I'm curious about what this has been like for you. 300 00:20:51,476 --> 00:20:53,716 Speaker 1: I mean, that's going to be an essential part of 301 00:20:53,716 --> 00:20:57,436 Speaker 1: who I am forever. Most people who know me know 302 00:20:57,556 --> 00:20:59,596 Speaker 1: that I love my family more than just about anything. 303 00:21:01,316 --> 00:21:05,196 Speaker 1: And there are a few things I take pride in 304 00:21:07,116 --> 00:21:09,076 Speaker 1: as much as I take pride in being an old 305 00:21:09,116 --> 00:21:14,836 Speaker 1: her sister and looking out for these people who I 306 00:21:14,956 --> 00:21:18,156 Speaker 1: love so much. And you know, I would have done 307 00:21:18,196 --> 00:21:25,836 Speaker 1: anything to save her. And I can't believe that she 308 00:21:25,916 --> 00:21:29,596 Speaker 1: won't be up my college graduation and that she's not 309 00:21:29,636 --> 00:21:31,316 Speaker 1: going to yell at me when I pick out an 310 00:21:31,396 --> 00:21:34,596 Speaker 1: ugly wedding dress, and you know that she's not going 311 00:21:34,636 --> 00:21:37,116 Speaker 1: to be ordering people around when she's my maid of honor. 312 00:21:38,036 --> 00:21:39,836 Speaker 1: But all these things that were going to happen that 313 00:21:39,956 --> 00:21:44,556 Speaker 1: my kids aren't going to know her is unimaginable and 314 00:21:44,636 --> 00:21:46,476 Speaker 1: it's all very selfish, right. It's all the things that 315 00:21:46,516 --> 00:21:48,636 Speaker 1: I wanted to do and have her there for. But 316 00:21:53,036 --> 00:21:57,876 Speaker 1: like those milestones are just there's so much about having 317 00:21:57,876 --> 00:22:04,316 Speaker 1: a sister that makes a lot of moments in life 318 00:22:04,316 --> 00:22:10,356 Speaker 1: more special. One thing I'm unbelievably gul for is I 319 00:22:10,396 --> 00:22:12,636 Speaker 1: have the world's best younger brother, But I do not 320 00:22:12,716 --> 00:22:16,436 Speaker 1: know what I do without him. If she had left 321 00:22:16,476 --> 00:22:23,956 Speaker 1: me here alone, I don't know what I would have done. 322 00:22:25,156 --> 00:22:28,676 Speaker 1: You know, another thing Julia says, which which I just 323 00:22:28,716 --> 00:22:32,316 Speaker 1: had never thought about before, is that the hole that 324 00:22:32,356 --> 00:22:34,556 Speaker 1: that kind of loss can create within you can actually 325 00:22:34,556 --> 00:22:39,556 Speaker 1: affect your confidence, because it can affect your capacity and 326 00:22:39,596 --> 00:22:47,236 Speaker 1: ability to be yourself. Does that resonate with you? I 327 00:22:47,276 --> 00:22:52,436 Speaker 1: think I'm the kind of person who's very externally confident 328 00:22:53,076 --> 00:22:56,476 Speaker 1: and always has been. How deep that goes down has 329 00:22:56,516 --> 00:23:00,596 Speaker 1: always been a problem, and that it doesn't. But I 330 00:23:00,636 --> 00:23:08,036 Speaker 1: think the thing that I notice is if I allow 331 00:23:08,116 --> 00:23:14,196 Speaker 1: myself to take him a moment and check in. I mean, I'm, 332 00:23:14,236 --> 00:23:19,356 Speaker 1: you know, in therapy constantly, but I'll have these realizations 333 00:23:19,476 --> 00:23:25,516 Speaker 1: that I'm scared all the time, like I'm always just 334 00:23:25,636 --> 00:23:29,636 Speaker 1: a little on edge. That I walk down the street 335 00:23:30,596 --> 00:23:33,436 Speaker 1: and I pass a semi truck and I think of 336 00:23:33,476 --> 00:23:37,596 Speaker 1: my sister's body being pushed up against the windshield, and 337 00:23:40,476 --> 00:23:44,156 Speaker 1: that's just how I live now. That would you know 338 00:23:44,196 --> 00:23:47,236 Speaker 1: a Carward Hawks, My hair stands on end, or when 339 00:23:47,276 --> 00:23:50,116 Speaker 1: an ambulance passes. The first thing I think is how 340 00:23:50,196 --> 00:23:51,956 Speaker 1: quickly it took an ambulance to get to Dixie. I 341 00:23:51,956 --> 00:23:56,796 Speaker 1: don't know. I think most twenty two year olds are 342 00:23:56,916 --> 00:24:00,156 Speaker 1: very unsure about the world. I am very unsure about 343 00:24:00,156 --> 00:24:01,636 Speaker 1: the world. I don't know who I am yet or 344 00:24:01,636 --> 00:24:06,356 Speaker 1: what I want to do with my life. That degree 345 00:24:06,356 --> 00:24:18,316 Speaker 1: of uncertainty is tolerable and exciting. Living with just a 346 00:24:18,356 --> 00:24:28,636 Speaker 1: little bit of constant terror is exhausting, and you don't 347 00:24:28,676 --> 00:24:30,916 Speaker 1: It's like when you don't realize your shoulders have been 348 00:24:30,916 --> 00:24:33,356 Speaker 1: tensed all day and then you finally let them down 349 00:24:33,356 --> 00:24:37,636 Speaker 1: and you're like, huh, that was happening. It's like that 350 00:24:37,756 --> 00:24:46,996 Speaker 1: all the time. Every day takes one hundred I think 351 00:24:46,996 --> 00:24:48,876 Speaker 1: I do a really good job of passing it off, 352 00:24:48,956 --> 00:24:54,636 Speaker 1: but it is very, very hard. We'll be back in 353 00:24:54,676 --> 00:25:09,716 Speaker 1: a moment that the slight change of plans. Quinn Lewis 354 00:25:09,836 --> 00:25:12,996 Speaker 1: tragically lost her little sister Dixie in a car accident. 355 00:25:13,756 --> 00:25:17,076 Speaker 1: In our conversation, Quinn shared how Dixie's death has changed 356 00:25:17,116 --> 00:25:20,396 Speaker 1: the way she interacts with people. The interesting thing that 357 00:25:20,476 --> 00:25:22,756 Speaker 1: I realized when I first got to schools, I needed 358 00:25:22,836 --> 00:25:25,276 Speaker 1: everyone to know I didn't need to tell them. I 359 00:25:25,276 --> 00:25:27,956 Speaker 1: didn't need to ruin their day by like interrupting the 360 00:25:27,996 --> 00:25:32,636 Speaker 1: conversation letting them know. But I had my friends tell 361 00:25:33,276 --> 00:25:36,036 Speaker 1: everybody I came into contact with, whether it was like 362 00:25:36,236 --> 00:25:39,236 Speaker 1: when I was in the bathroom or like whatever. They 363 00:25:39,236 --> 00:25:41,636 Speaker 1: didn't have to bring it up. I just could not 364 00:25:42,836 --> 00:25:46,516 Speaker 1: exist in a world that they didn't know that. Three 365 00:25:46,596 --> 00:25:49,356 Speaker 1: quarters of my brain was it at you know the 366 00:25:49,356 --> 00:25:52,156 Speaker 1: table we were getting tacos and marguerite is at. It 367 00:25:52,276 --> 00:25:54,716 Speaker 1: was sitting in my sister's room next to a tiny 368 00:25:54,756 --> 00:25:57,556 Speaker 1: little plastic box of ashes that we said we were 369 00:25:57,556 --> 00:26:00,716 Speaker 1: going to scatter three months ago. And didn't you know 370 00:26:00,756 --> 00:26:04,036 Speaker 1: you mentioned telling all of your friends to tell everyone else. 371 00:26:05,596 --> 00:26:07,916 Speaker 1: It strikes me as an incredible gift you gave them, 372 00:26:08,236 --> 00:26:15,196 Speaker 1: because as a society we're so ill equipped at addressing 373 00:26:15,276 --> 00:26:18,876 Speaker 1: death directly. We feel anxiety that what we say will 374 00:26:19,076 --> 00:26:22,556 Speaker 1: fail to strike the right tone or will insufficiently honor 375 00:26:22,596 --> 00:26:26,716 Speaker 1: the loss, and death becomes the elephant in the room, 376 00:26:26,756 --> 00:26:33,636 Speaker 1: and it creates this additional, unanticipated, massive burden for the 377 00:26:33,716 --> 00:26:39,836 Speaker 1: berieve to navigate. Which are these distorted dynamics with friends 378 00:26:39,836 --> 00:26:43,596 Speaker 1: and co workers and strangers you're meeting in the cafeteria, 379 00:26:43,756 --> 00:26:48,156 Speaker 1: Like it's just painful to think about being a college 380 00:26:48,156 --> 00:26:54,036 Speaker 1: student having to navigate those dynamics. I think you just 381 00:26:54,236 --> 00:26:57,196 Speaker 1: you can't take anything too seriously. I think it's what 382 00:26:57,236 --> 00:27:01,356 Speaker 1: I've learned about what people are going to say. I 383 00:27:01,396 --> 00:27:04,436 Speaker 1: think it's nice that people try, and I think you 384 00:27:04,556 --> 00:27:07,596 Speaker 1: get funny stories to share with your friends, with the 385 00:27:07,636 --> 00:27:15,076 Speaker 1: people who really, uh, screw the pooch. I think I've 386 00:27:15,116 --> 00:27:18,236 Speaker 1: had people tell me oh my gosh. I had someone 387 00:27:18,276 --> 00:27:20,636 Speaker 1: take me aside a couple of weeks after she died, 388 00:27:21,156 --> 00:27:25,076 Speaker 1: hold my hand, very sincerely, looked deeply into my eyes. 389 00:27:25,076 --> 00:27:26,756 Speaker 1: This was an old woman who I had just met, 390 00:27:28,316 --> 00:27:30,316 Speaker 1: and said, people are going to tell you it's going 391 00:27:30,316 --> 00:27:35,556 Speaker 1: to get better. It never gets better. It's like, all right, 392 00:27:35,796 --> 00:27:39,676 Speaker 1: thank you noted. You know, people react weirdly. I'm I mean, 393 00:27:39,716 --> 00:27:41,996 Speaker 1: I'm lucky. I think, you know, if I were to 394 00:27:42,036 --> 00:27:44,716 Speaker 1: tell people how to react to this, I love that. 395 00:27:45,556 --> 00:27:48,236 Speaker 1: You know, I stole a bunch of Dixie's clothes, which 396 00:27:48,276 --> 00:27:49,756 Speaker 1: I still feel like she's going to come home and 397 00:27:49,796 --> 00:27:53,356 Speaker 1: like get mad at me for having But I have 398 00:27:53,356 --> 00:27:55,356 Speaker 1: so many of Dixie's clothes with me at school that 399 00:27:55,396 --> 00:27:59,116 Speaker 1: I'll wear sometimes. And I have a couple of friends 400 00:27:59,516 --> 00:28:04,556 Speaker 1: who remember which ones are hers, and they'd be like, 401 00:28:04,556 --> 00:28:09,316 Speaker 1: it's your Dixie dressed today, because that's that's exactly what 402 00:28:09,396 --> 00:28:17,196 Speaker 1: I'm thinking the whole time. I love that. I want 403 00:28:17,196 --> 00:28:19,916 Speaker 1: to talk a bit about your family, Quinn. I remember 404 00:28:20,076 --> 00:28:23,676 Speaker 1: that a couple of weeks after Dixie died, you and 405 00:28:23,716 --> 00:28:27,396 Speaker 1: I were chatting on the phone and you shared this 406 00:28:27,436 --> 00:28:31,276 Speaker 1: observation with me that's really stuck with me. You said 407 00:28:33,436 --> 00:28:36,756 Speaker 1: that at that particular moment in time, perhaps because you 408 00:28:36,796 --> 00:28:40,076 Speaker 1: were all in the acute phases of grief, you and 409 00:28:40,116 --> 00:28:43,116 Speaker 1: your family appeared to be grieving in a similar way. 410 00:28:43,316 --> 00:28:46,276 Speaker 1: It had a similar quality to it. And I remember 411 00:28:46,276 --> 00:28:48,876 Speaker 1: you saying it felt so unifying, like you were unified 412 00:28:48,916 --> 00:28:52,356 Speaker 1: in your grief, but you were concerned that in the 413 00:28:52,396 --> 00:28:56,716 Speaker 1: longer term, different members of your family would invariably start 414 00:28:56,756 --> 00:29:05,116 Speaker 1: grieving differently and along different emotional arcs. And I mean 415 00:29:05,156 --> 00:29:08,836 Speaker 1: one I was. I was moved by your foresight. You know. 416 00:29:08,956 --> 00:29:11,996 Speaker 1: I think it's takes an incredibly wise person in the 417 00:29:12,396 --> 00:29:14,236 Speaker 1: throes of that kind of acute grief to even have 418 00:29:14,316 --> 00:29:19,716 Speaker 1: such thoughts. But I'm wondering, I'm wondering what this has 419 00:29:19,716 --> 00:29:22,356 Speaker 1: been like for all of you and have you been 420 00:29:22,356 --> 00:29:28,956 Speaker 1: grieving differently. I would actually say the hardest part was, 421 00:29:29,036 --> 00:29:35,796 Speaker 1: like things really they diverged after like five weeks of 422 00:29:37,196 --> 00:29:39,276 Speaker 1: Dixie's death, and all of a sudden, people started wanting 423 00:29:39,276 --> 00:29:41,876 Speaker 1: and needing very different things. Some people wanted to talk 424 00:29:41,916 --> 00:29:44,756 Speaker 1: about it a lot, and some people would rather not 425 00:29:44,836 --> 00:29:47,076 Speaker 1: and want of things to be okay for as many 426 00:29:47,116 --> 00:29:50,476 Speaker 1: hours of the day that they could be okay. I 427 00:29:50,476 --> 00:29:52,636 Speaker 1: think both are totally valid. I think it's just hard 428 00:29:52,676 --> 00:29:57,756 Speaker 1: to reconcile when everyone's living in the same house, right, 429 00:29:57,836 --> 00:30:01,556 Speaker 1: So those are really big approaches that are not super 430 00:30:02,236 --> 00:30:05,916 Speaker 1: easy to reconcile. If one person really likes photos of 431 00:30:06,076 --> 00:30:08,236 Speaker 1: Dixie everywhere and wants to talk about her all the time, 432 00:30:08,836 --> 00:30:11,876 Speaker 1: and one person would rather not have photos, I'd rather 433 00:30:11,916 --> 00:30:14,476 Speaker 1: get through the day and spend as much normal time 434 00:30:14,516 --> 00:30:23,836 Speaker 1: as possible. I think that's hard to navigate. Something I've 435 00:30:23,876 --> 00:30:27,956 Speaker 1: been actually really relieved by is how hard everyone is 436 00:30:27,956 --> 00:30:33,676 Speaker 1: trying to accommodate for each other's kinds of grief. I 437 00:30:33,756 --> 00:30:40,036 Speaker 1: love that. It's really reassuring because the last thing I 438 00:30:40,076 --> 00:30:45,876 Speaker 1: can handle is anything else falling apart. Yeah, so yeah, 439 00:30:46,356 --> 00:30:49,156 Speaker 1: I think it's really easy to be judgmental when you're 440 00:30:49,156 --> 00:30:55,676 Speaker 1: in pain, right. I think even when you are in pain, 441 00:30:56,756 --> 00:31:02,876 Speaker 1: trying to see someone else's process in the best way 442 00:31:02,916 --> 00:31:07,396 Speaker 1: you possibly can, to be as gracious as possible and 443 00:31:07,636 --> 00:31:11,156 Speaker 1: understanding as possible as a distance yourself and what you 444 00:31:11,196 --> 00:31:15,476 Speaker 1: want from what someone else might want, which is extremely 445 00:31:15,476 --> 00:31:19,476 Speaker 1: hard to deal when the emotions are so big. But 446 00:31:19,676 --> 00:31:22,956 Speaker 1: I think that's the most important thing if you actually, 447 00:31:25,236 --> 00:31:29,356 Speaker 1: you know, want your team to stick together, because under 448 00:31:29,356 --> 00:31:33,956 Speaker 1: these kinds of circumstances, inevitably everyone is going to react differently, 449 00:31:34,716 --> 00:31:41,716 Speaker 1: and so your choices are either you know, kindness, an accommodation, 450 00:31:42,356 --> 00:31:49,036 Speaker 1: or going it alone. Does this represent growth for you? 451 00:31:51,036 --> 00:31:54,636 Speaker 1: I think there are people who go through things like 452 00:31:54,636 --> 00:31:58,276 Speaker 1: this and they come out the other side and they say, 453 00:31:59,716 --> 00:32:02,956 Speaker 1: you know, I look at life so differently. You know, 454 00:32:02,996 --> 00:32:09,836 Speaker 1: every days a gift, anything can happen, or you know, 455 00:32:09,836 --> 00:32:14,076 Speaker 1: it's so important to treat people with kindness because you 456 00:32:14,116 --> 00:32:20,716 Speaker 1: never know what's going on. But it doesn't feel like 457 00:32:20,756 --> 00:32:24,356 Speaker 1: a learning moment. I don't feel like my worldview has changed. 458 00:32:25,716 --> 00:32:28,076 Speaker 1: My worldview has changed because they don't have a sister 459 00:32:28,116 --> 00:32:33,036 Speaker 1: who's alive. Um, I don't know if I call that growth. 460 00:32:35,396 --> 00:32:37,316 Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna have to grow to like get 461 00:32:37,316 --> 00:32:39,916 Speaker 1: through it, you know, and glue the pieces back together. 462 00:32:41,556 --> 00:32:43,036 Speaker 1: But I don't. I don't feel like I've become a 463 00:32:43,076 --> 00:32:47,436 Speaker 1: better person. I don't feel like i've I'm gonna be 464 00:32:48,916 --> 00:32:51,836 Speaker 1: more thoughtful, not to say that like I was already 465 00:32:51,836 --> 00:32:55,756 Speaker 1: at you know, maximum capacity for thoughtfulness, just like whatever whatever, 466 00:32:55,876 --> 00:33:01,836 Speaker 1: like traumatic resilience, whatever, you know, thing that some people 467 00:33:01,956 --> 00:33:07,356 Speaker 1: claim to have. I'm not like born again. Grief is 468 00:33:07,916 --> 00:33:16,236 Speaker 1: obviously instively complicated process, and it's nonlinear, of course, but 469 00:33:16,316 --> 00:33:20,756 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if there are are certain changes that feel 470 00:33:21,916 --> 00:33:30,636 Speaker 1: more permanent looking back. Yeah, I think my active efforts 471 00:33:30,796 --> 00:33:33,716 Speaker 1: to keep her around in every way I can are 472 00:33:33,796 --> 00:33:38,196 Speaker 1: never going to stop. Like Taylor Swift released this album 473 00:33:38,236 --> 00:33:40,476 Speaker 1: that's not even a new album, it's just her rerecording 474 00:33:40,476 --> 00:33:43,116 Speaker 1: old songs. We love Taylor Swift. We've been listening to 475 00:33:43,156 --> 00:33:46,396 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift since, like Taylor Swift was fourteen years old. 476 00:33:47,156 --> 00:33:48,796 Speaker 1: Like I want to know what her favorite song would 477 00:33:48,796 --> 00:33:50,196 Speaker 1: have been. I think I know what it would have been. 478 00:33:50,596 --> 00:33:51,916 Speaker 1: And I listened all the way through and I know 479 00:33:51,916 --> 00:33:53,236 Speaker 1: which one, and I listened to it all the time, 480 00:33:53,516 --> 00:33:55,316 Speaker 1: and when I walk and I'm listening to that song, 481 00:33:56,276 --> 00:34:00,596 Speaker 1: I'm like spending time with her. She is such a 482 00:34:00,596 --> 00:34:02,436 Speaker 1: big part of my world, and I don't get to 483 00:34:02,476 --> 00:34:08,036 Speaker 1: have her with me, but I will do everything I 484 00:34:08,036 --> 00:34:14,876 Speaker 1: can to myself with little parts of her. I hope 485 00:34:14,876 --> 00:34:18,036 Speaker 1: it doesn't stay this hard. I hope I find a 486 00:34:18,076 --> 00:34:25,276 Speaker 1: little bit more peace. Has your understanding of your relationship 487 00:34:25,316 --> 00:34:28,196 Speaker 1: with Dixie changed? And then I know that you were 488 00:34:28,196 --> 00:34:31,316 Speaker 1: saying earlier she thought you guys were so different and 489 00:34:32,276 --> 00:34:36,476 Speaker 1: you weren't sure that was true, And yeah, I just 490 00:34:36,476 --> 00:34:40,996 Speaker 1: want to hear more about that. It just feels so unfinished, 491 00:34:42,356 --> 00:34:48,996 Speaker 1: you know, because this wasn't supposed to happen, and I 492 00:34:49,036 --> 00:34:51,276 Speaker 1: can very easily see a slightly different reality where I 493 00:34:51,276 --> 00:34:56,276 Speaker 1: feel so much guilt for not spending not being more inclusive, 494 00:34:56,356 --> 00:34:59,236 Speaker 1: and not being you know, the sister that she called 495 00:34:59,236 --> 00:35:06,436 Speaker 1: about everything, but that just wasn't us, and I, you know, 496 00:35:06,516 --> 00:35:12,436 Speaker 1: there's no there's no reason why I shouldn't have to 497 00:35:12,436 --> 00:35:15,836 Speaker 1: redo any of that because she wasn't She was supposed 498 00:35:15,836 --> 00:35:18,676 Speaker 1: to be here, and none of that was actually that 499 00:35:18,676 --> 00:35:21,916 Speaker 1: big of a deal. That's just being sisters. We should 500 00:35:21,916 --> 00:35:24,476 Speaker 1: have been allowed to be sisters. She shouldn't have died. 501 00:35:27,956 --> 00:35:30,756 Speaker 1: But the feeling I do feel is God. I wish 502 00:35:30,796 --> 00:35:32,716 Speaker 1: I hadn't excluded her, because I would have been an 503 00:35:32,716 --> 00:35:37,516 Speaker 1: extra minute, and I would do anything for just one 504 00:35:37,516 --> 00:35:48,396 Speaker 1: more minute. I guess I'm I'm just wondering where you 505 00:35:48,476 --> 00:35:51,716 Speaker 1: go from here, you know, And there's there are so 506 00:35:51,756 --> 00:35:54,116 Speaker 1: many people who will be listening to this who are 507 00:35:54,196 --> 00:36:00,316 Speaker 1: navigating loss in their own lives, and and so I 508 00:36:00,956 --> 00:36:05,956 Speaker 1: think something helpful for people to hear from you is 509 00:36:06,876 --> 00:36:12,596 Speaker 1: how you've navigated the tension between remembering Dixie and honoring 510 00:36:12,636 --> 00:36:18,396 Speaker 1: her and staying close to her and allowing yourself moments 511 00:36:18,436 --> 00:36:22,116 Speaker 1: to just breathe to get a respite from the pain. 512 00:36:29,596 --> 00:36:32,716 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I figured that out yet. I 513 00:36:32,756 --> 00:36:34,636 Speaker 1: think if there is anyone listening to this who has 514 00:36:35,716 --> 00:36:40,556 Speaker 1: lost anyone, which is probably most people, I'm all like, 515 00:36:40,596 --> 00:36:43,316 Speaker 1: I'm very new to this, but like that breaks my heart. 516 00:36:43,476 --> 00:36:45,316 Speaker 1: It breaks my heart that anyone else has to feel this. 517 00:36:46,156 --> 00:36:49,796 Speaker 1: I like, I can't. It baffles me that this hasn't 518 00:36:49,796 --> 00:36:52,756 Speaker 1: existed more than once, and that anyone else has to 519 00:36:52,796 --> 00:37:00,556 Speaker 1: go through it. That's so heartbreaking. But I feel a 520 00:37:00,596 --> 00:37:03,716 Speaker 1: little bit more able to choose whether or not my 521 00:37:03,756 --> 00:37:07,236 Speaker 1: brain goes there, because it's not like when you're sad 522 00:37:07,316 --> 00:37:11,396 Speaker 1: or anxious or like anything else, and you can cry 523 00:37:11,476 --> 00:37:18,036 Speaker 1: and you feel better. It just keeps going down because 524 00:37:18,396 --> 00:37:22,436 Speaker 1: it's not getting better because I don't get to have 525 00:37:22,476 --> 00:37:30,596 Speaker 1: my sister back. And I think it's okay to not 526 00:37:30,796 --> 00:37:35,116 Speaker 1: want to feel the grief all the time. I don't 527 00:37:35,196 --> 00:37:41,236 Speaker 1: think it's you know, don't push it down forever. But 528 00:37:41,276 --> 00:37:44,516 Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with making choices about when this is 529 00:37:44,556 --> 00:37:48,756 Speaker 1: going to enter your life. It's a part of surviving 530 00:37:48,956 --> 00:37:56,796 Speaker 1: and it's a part of continuing to live. I one 531 00:37:56,836 --> 00:38:01,556 Speaker 1: thing I do try to do is that I'm very 532 00:38:01,596 --> 00:38:04,956 Speaker 1: bad at, but I'm working on. It's to be more 533 00:38:04,996 --> 00:38:08,356 Speaker 1: gentle with myself. But when I get home, I like 534 00:38:09,316 --> 00:38:12,196 Speaker 1: think about the three things I did that day that 535 00:38:12,356 --> 00:38:15,716 Speaker 1: we're really good. And sometimes it's that I ate lunch, 536 00:38:16,476 --> 00:38:19,116 Speaker 1: and sometimes it's that I went on a walk, and 537 00:38:19,276 --> 00:38:21,596 Speaker 1: sometimes it's I went to class and I took my 538 00:38:21,636 --> 00:38:25,236 Speaker 1: notes and I walked back to my dorm. Sometimes I 539 00:38:25,236 --> 00:38:29,156 Speaker 1: actually do something impressive. Sometimes I actually, you know, did 540 00:38:29,156 --> 00:38:32,516 Speaker 1: original research that's gonna do whatever about climate change or 541 00:38:33,636 --> 00:38:36,996 Speaker 1: but I think the metric now is very different than 542 00:38:37,036 --> 00:38:41,916 Speaker 1: it was, and allowing that bar to be in a 543 00:38:41,996 --> 00:38:48,676 Speaker 1: place where baby steps are worth celebrating, because when something 544 00:38:48,756 --> 00:38:52,796 Speaker 1: is so huge and insurmountable, there's never going to be 545 00:38:52,796 --> 00:38:58,396 Speaker 1: a counterweight of good that makes it feel better. But 546 00:38:58,436 --> 00:39:02,276 Speaker 1: there can be these tiny, little moments that remind you 547 00:39:03,436 --> 00:39:05,596 Speaker 1: that you are moving forward and you are going to 548 00:39:05,636 --> 00:39:08,556 Speaker 1: be okay, and that you're doing okay, and that you're 549 00:39:09,156 --> 00:39:11,116 Speaker 1: every day you are trying your hardest, whether it was 550 00:39:11,156 --> 00:39:14,196 Speaker 1: conscious or not, and trying your hardest is all anyone 551 00:39:14,276 --> 00:39:40,076 Speaker 1: could ask of you. Hey, thanks for listening. Join me 552 00:39:40,156 --> 00:39:42,116 Speaker 1: next week when I talk with one of the UK's 553 00:39:42,236 --> 00:39:46,516 Speaker 1: leading grief therapists, Julia Samuel. You know, people say time 554 00:39:46,636 --> 00:39:50,876 Speaker 1: is a great healer and the pain of grief does 555 00:39:51,076 --> 00:39:55,396 Speaker 1: change over time, but if we aren't active in the 556 00:39:55,516 --> 00:40:00,676 Speaker 1: process of grieving, it doesn't change so much. The things 557 00:40:00,716 --> 00:40:03,636 Speaker 1: you do to block your pain are, in the end 558 00:40:03,636 --> 00:40:17,116 Speaker 1: the things that harm you over time. A Slight Change 559 00:40:17,116 --> 00:40:19,996 Speaker 1: of Plans is created written an executive produce by me 560 00:40:20,196 --> 00:40:24,116 Speaker 1: Maya Schunker. The Slight Change Family includes Tyler Green, our 561 00:40:24,156 --> 00:40:28,276 Speaker 1: senior producer, Jan Guerra, our senior editor, Ben Tolliday, our 562 00:40:28,316 --> 00:40:32,556 Speaker 1: sound engineer, Emily Rosteck, our producer and fact checker, and 563 00:40:32,716 --> 00:40:37,276 Speaker 1: Neil LaBelle, our executive producer. My heartfelt thanks to Quinn 564 00:40:37,396 --> 00:40:40,116 Speaker 1: in the entire Lewis family who have trusted me with 565 00:40:40,156 --> 00:40:44,996 Speaker 1: their story and honoring Dixie Lee Lewis. Louis Skara wrote 566 00:40:45,036 --> 00:40:47,916 Speaker 1: our theme song and Ginger Smith helped arrange the vocals. 567 00:40:48,676 --> 00:40:51,596 Speaker 1: A Slight Change of Plans is a production of Pushkin Industries, 568 00:40:51,676 --> 00:40:56,076 Speaker 1: so big thanks to everyone there, including Nicolemrano, Maggie Taylor, 569 00:40:56,236 --> 00:41:00,396 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Heather Faine, and Carly mcgliori, and of course 570 00:41:00,556 --> 00:41:04,196 Speaker 1: a very special thanks to Jimmy Lee. You can follow 571 00:41:04,236 --> 00:41:07,076 Speaker 1: A Slight Change of Plans on Instagram at doctor Maya 572 00:41:07,156 --> 00:41:16,036 Speaker 1: Schunker CNX. What this looks like for me is I 573 00:41:16,076 --> 00:41:19,156 Speaker 1: have an unlimited coffee budget. I usually don't drink coffee 574 00:41:19,436 --> 00:41:21,396 Speaker 1: because it makes me really hyper and it's really fun, 575 00:41:22,276 --> 00:41:25,036 Speaker 1: and I used to try and moderate it. Who cares? 576 00:41:25,556 --> 00:41:29,276 Speaker 1: Who cares? It's coffee. It makes me feel better. My 577 00:41:29,356 --> 00:41:31,156 Speaker 1: therapist when I get on the phone can tell if 578 00:41:31,156 --> 00:41:34,796 Speaker 1: I've had coffee because I'm happier. I have as much 579 00:41:34,796 --> 00:41:38,316 Speaker 1: coffee as I want. I don't care twenty cups a day, whatever, Mocha, 580 00:41:38,476 --> 00:41:41,156 Speaker 1: I want all the chocolate sprinkles. Put them on like 581 00:41:41,356 --> 00:41:45,396 Speaker 1: they say whipped cream. Yes, whip cream. Yes, will Will 582 00:41:45,476 --> 00:41:47,956 Speaker 1: I be downloading the mobile app because my order has 583 00:41:47,956 --> 00:41:50,276 Speaker 1: gotten so embarrassing that I cannot say it out loud. Yes, 584 00:41:50,276 --> 00:41:51,756 Speaker 1: I will be downloading the mobile app.