1 00:00:01,480 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on. 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: Plutin just made a very clue that he wants to 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: reunite the Silt Union. From the view is not ethically constrained. 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: It is no such thing as risk free sanctions, but 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: our risk polerance test rise in the face of an 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: actual land for indig Floomberg Sound on Politics, Policy and 7 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: Perspective from DC's top Name. There is society that the 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: economy is not super robust. Pennsylvania has there's a structurally 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: deficient bridge. The need has been pronounced for a while, 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: and Joe Biden got it done. Bloomberg Sound On with 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,599 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. We head into this weekend 12 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: with breaking news and a new warning from the White House. 13 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: Russia could move on Ukraine as soon as next week. 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to the fastest hour in politics, with new information 15 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: on the standoff with Russia and an important conversation ahead 16 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: with Congressman Jim Himes, a Democrat from Connecticut who serves 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: on the House Intelligence Committee. He'll be live on the 18 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: line in just a moment, and we'll hear analysis from 19 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: the signature panel. Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Chantano and Rick 20 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: Davis are with us for the hour. Later, a judge 21 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: in Canada just ordered an end of the truck convoy 22 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: blocking the bridge to Detroit in protest of COVID restrictions, 23 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: among other things. We're gonna talk about what happens next 24 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: now with the mayor of Windsor, Canada, Drew Dilkins, whose 25 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: city has been at the center of this for days. 26 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: President Biden is off to Camp David now for the weekend, 27 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: where he will be huddling with advisors on Russia and Ukraine. 28 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: And just breaking now on the terminal in the last hour, 29 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 1: Bloomberg News reporting President Biden will speak tomorrow with Vladimir Putin. 30 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: We are living in interesting times, and I want to 31 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: be explicit. We are not dealing with third party information tonight. 32 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: We are only bringing you news reported directly by Bloomberg. 33 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: There is just too much stuff flying around at the 34 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: moment that cannot be verified, and we encourage you to 35 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: be careful with where you're getting your information. White House 36 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan brief reporters today made clear 37 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: in the briefing room that Russia we could take offensive 38 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: military action against Ukraine as soon as next week. Here 39 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: he is, we can't pinpoint the day at this point, uh, 40 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: And we can't pinpoint the hour. But what we can 41 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: say is that there is a credible prospect that a 42 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: Russian military action would take place even before the end 43 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: of the Olympics. Recalling reports the president she asked Vladimir 44 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: Putin to hold off on any invasion until after the 45 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: Beijing Olympics, remember that a couple of weeks ago. Well 46 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: maybe not. Although Sullivan also stressed what we do not 47 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 1: know here he is again, we are not saying that 48 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: a decision has been taken, a final decision has been 49 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: taken by President Putin. What we are saying is that 50 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: we have a sufficient level of concern based on what 51 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: we are seeing on the ground and what our intelligence 52 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: analysts have picked up, that we are sending this clear message. 53 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: And now Bloomberg News is also reporting the US is 54 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: ordering an additional three thousand troops to stand ground in Poland. 55 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: That makes for a total increase of five thousand troops 56 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: in that country, where defending our NATO allies is the mission. 57 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 1: The State Department is warning Americans to get out of Ukraine. 58 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: You've heard that as Russian assault, Jake Sullivan says, would 59 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: likely begin with an aerial bombing, maybe missile attacks that 60 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: could bring civilian casualties. That is where we begin our 61 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: conversation with Congressman Jim Himes, Democrat from Connecticut. He serves 62 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: on the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and Congressman from 63 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: one Nutmega to another. Welcome. Do you believe that Vladimir 64 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: Putin is aiming for war? Well, it sure looks that way, 65 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: Joe Um, and I think you characterize it correctly. I 66 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: don't know that that we know that a decision has 67 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: been taken. Coincidentally, I was just on a call with 68 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: the Deputy Secretary of State. I don't have any reason 69 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: to believe that Putin has taken that decision. But what 70 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: he has done over the course of the last couple 71 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: of weeks is to put himself in the position that 72 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: if he says go minutes later, artillery will be flying in, 73 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: tanks could be crossing the border. And that's the position 74 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: he's put himself in. So he's created a very very 75 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: dangerous situation. Um. And you know, we may not know 76 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: that the decision has been taken until, as I said, 77 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: you know, there are tanks on the move, or artillery 78 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: or missiles flying over the border. Jake Sullivan reiterated the 79 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: belief that Putin could stage a false flag operation to 80 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: you know, to create a pretext for war. Congressman, how 81 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: would our intelligence community be able to tell the difference 82 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 1: to confirm such an operation? Well, um, this is sort 83 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: of part of the Russian playbook, um, And it was 84 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: remarkable to see the intelligence community, um describe that plan 85 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, with the idea that you know, 86 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: it would take some of the credibility out of whatever 87 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: it is. You'll you'll recall that the idea was that 88 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: the Russians would stage an attack. They would use, you know, 89 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: cadavers to you know, show graphic images of people who 90 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: had died at the hands of the Ukrainians. You know, Uh, 91 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: Putin is is almost entire the shameless, but he's not 92 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: a hundred percent shameless. And you know, to this moment, 93 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: he is denying that he has the intent to attack. Uh, 94 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: And so you would expect to see some staged provocation 95 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: that he can point to and say, hey, I had 96 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,799 Speaker 1: no intention to attack, and then X y Z happened. 97 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: So that's that's that's likely the way this looks. Do 98 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: you like the way the White House has tried to 99 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: stay ahead of this, talking about the you know, the movie, 100 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: talking about a possible false flag operation, trying to get 101 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: this stuff out there before it happens. Yeah, I think. 102 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: I think. Remember the whole mission right now, um, is 103 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: to create as much deterrence as possible. Uh. And that's 104 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,239 Speaker 1: why you've seen a steady flow of weaponry from NATO allies, 105 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: from the United States trainers on the ground to raise 106 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: the cost to Putin of an invasion. That's why you've 107 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: seen very explicit and specific descriptions of the sanctions that 108 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: will be impost That's why you saw the President and 109 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: the Europeans say that Nordstream too is over if Putin 110 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: crosses the line there, because right now, the entire game 111 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: aim is to create enough to turn so that Putin says, 112 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: all right, I may be ready to go, but the 113 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: cost of doing so just aren't worth it. Are you 114 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: confident we have the assets on the ground to deliver 115 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: accurate intelligence as this is unfolding? Well, um, I obviously 116 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: can't get it into specifics in that regard, but um, 117 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: you know we are working very closely with the Ukrainians 118 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: supporting them as best we can. Um. You know, we 119 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: don't have our military, with the exception of some trainers 120 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: on the ground down there, so we don't obviously have 121 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 1: the same sort of functional alliance that we would have 122 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: with a NATO ally. But UM, one of the things 123 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: we can do to make this very, very costly to 124 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin is to make sure that the Ukrainians know 125 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: what we know. And obviously we've gotten awful lot of 126 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: capability to know what's going on inside the Russian military 127 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: as they move troops around, as they move equipment around. Um, 128 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: you know, our capabilities will make that much more devastating 129 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: for Vladimir Putin than it would otherwise be. You do 130 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: not want to see a military or the answer if 131 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: there is an invasion, correct your your pure sanctions, Uh, Congressman, 132 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:07,559 Speaker 1: when it comes to this, you don't want to see 133 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: the United States military get involved in anything beyond a 134 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: defensive posture. Well, regardless of what I think, UM, a 135 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: Russian invasion of Ukraine would be just devastating, UM. Thousands 136 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: of dead, thousands of Ukrainians, innocent Ukrainians, civilian Ukrainians would 137 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: die for what so that Vladimir Putin can flex his 138 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: muscle and sort of pursues some vision of a grand 139 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: new Russia. I mean, is that is that where we 140 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: are in the twenty one century, where you know, an 141 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: autocrat like Putin gets to kill thousands of people? Now, 142 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: are we going to go to war um to to 143 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: stop Russia? You heard the National Security Advisor very clearly. 144 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: A member of Congress, I can tell you my constituents, 145 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: uh would not support that. But but we're gonna do 146 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: all that we can to make sure that put that Putin, 147 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: if he does this, he pays it. He pays a 148 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: dramatic cost. We're talking with Congressman Jim Himes, Democrat from Connecticut. 149 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: I know you also chair the Select Committee on Economic 150 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: Disparity and Fairness and Growth. You had a hearing this 151 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: week about the infrastructure law that I'd like to ask 152 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: you about making sure that people and small businesses and 153 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: underserved communities essentially are not overlooked when these investments, more 154 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: than a trillion dollars worth of investments are made. I 155 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: know it's difficult to control that much money, Congressman, but 156 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: I have a good sense of Connecticut. A lot of 157 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: people think it's a big yacht club. It's not. There 158 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,239 Speaker 1: are a number of communities they're in desperate need of 159 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: of this infrastructure investment. And of course you're looking at 160 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: this nationally as well. How do you make sure how 161 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: do you control the money to make sure it's getting 162 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: into the right places? Well, Um, you framed it exactly right. 163 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: I mean, yes, people think of Connecticut as a wealthy state, 164 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: and it is, but I represent the city of Bridgeport, 165 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: where you've got very substantial poverty. And to your question 166 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: about infrastructure, Um, you've got people who don't have broadband access. Um, 167 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: families with children who when when schooling was remote, you know, 168 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: had to park outside of a coffee shop where there 169 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: might and WiFi. And that's obviously not something that sits 170 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: well with any American, regardless of what you live. So 171 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: we do have an opportunity with his infrastructure spending to 172 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: make right some of the disparities that exist out there. Um. 173 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: You know it's interesting, um, Joe, when we think of 174 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: poverty and economic disparity, we think about differences in dollars 175 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: and yeah, okay, so that's true, but you know what 176 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,839 Speaker 1: else it's about. It's about isolation. Um, poverty UM, whether 177 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: it's a small town that's not near any sort of 178 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: transportation or commercial hubs, or an inner city that isn't 179 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: well served with some broadband or well served with mass 180 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: transit um. You know, infrastructure can do a lot to 181 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: alleviate the kind of poverty, that kind of economic disparities 182 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: that this country, sadly, UH is more and more characterizing 183 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 1: this country and also feeds crime, which I know is 184 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: a major issue for for a lot of cities throughout 185 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: the country. Congressman, the other side of this coin is 186 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: the other part of your district, which is Greenwich, a 187 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: very different set of constituents, and you're you're dealing with 188 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: a matter of salt as a potential UH matter to 189 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: to negotiate with the Build Back Better plan that's still 190 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: kind of sitting on the shelf here. And I wonder 191 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: if if you see a future UH for that issue 192 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: with regard to the tax deduction for your constituents dealing 193 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: with with enormous taxes on the state level, is that 194 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 1: something you could see being resolved this year or is 195 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: it time to stop talking about it? Well, you know, 196 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: I we continue to hear that build Back Better may 197 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: come back in the form of something smaller. Hey, that's 198 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: fine with me. I would rather not see it go 199 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: completely away, because there's some things in there that I 200 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: think would just be tremendously helpful to everybody in the 201 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: United States. My own personal, uh belief is that universal 202 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: pre k making sure that every American child you know, 203 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: gets to start school at age five, ready to learn, 204 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: ready to go. What that'll do for that child's opportunity 205 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: is just remarkable. Um So, I can't handicap for you 206 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: how or weather BBB will move forward. But you ask 207 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: about salt, you know, when we only have a minute. 208 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: But i'd be curious to know your thought on the deduction. Yeah, 209 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know whether here's well, here's here's 210 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: my thought. When when Donald Trump passed his tax reform, 211 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: which you know, cut taxes on enormously wealthy people, the 212 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 1: salt deduction was was was dropped down to ten dollars. 213 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: That punishes communities that choose to invest a lot in 214 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: their schools or in their roadways and therefore have to 215 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: tax more. So my my personal view of this is 216 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: that we ought to raise that deduction. Now we don't 217 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: need to eliminate it, right, because at the end of 218 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: the day, the salt deduction, you know when it happened 219 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: this year, though, Congressman Hard, I sure hope, So, I 220 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: sure hope. So I'd like to see that deduction, right. 221 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: I appreciate your being thoughtful with all of my questions. 222 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: Congressman Jim Hims, Democrat from Connecticut, the view on everything 223 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: from Ukraine to Greenwich? How about it? On the fastest 224 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: hour in politics, the panels next, This is Bloomberg. This 225 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg, so On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 226 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: The headline on the terminal, breaking news from the White 227 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: House says the US warrants of risk that Russia attacks 228 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: Ukraine next week. We assemble the panel for more on this. 229 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: Having heard from Congressman Himes, Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie Shenzano 230 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: and Rick Davis are here. Welcome to both of you, 231 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: and Happy Friday. Genie. We've received repeated warnings from the 232 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: White House absent and invasion. Does the administration risk sounding 233 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: like the boy who Cried Wolf here? Well, you know, 234 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: I was struck by the change of language today because 235 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: you know, last week they stopped sort of talking about 236 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: the imminent threat, but that resumed today after that meeting 237 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: in the Situation Room last night, and so it seems 238 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: that they have arrived at some you know, conclusion or 239 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 1: thought that the diploma diplomatic options. We know Biden and 240 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: Putna are supposed to talk tomorrow, but those don't seem 241 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: to be going very far. Certainly after we heard the 242 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: comments that Sergey liver Off made to the Foreign Minister 243 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: from from Britain, you know, falling on deaf ears, those 244 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: seem to have sort of stalled, if you will. And 245 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: so we're hearing the administration say once again, Americans need 246 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: to get out in the next eight hours if nothing else. 247 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: They can't pinpoint a time frame, but we do know 248 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: they have the capacity to representative himes point, they have 249 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: the capacity to act should they decide, And I think 250 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 1: it's important that the administration tell Americans there and everybody 251 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: around the world that that's the situation. This would be 252 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: a dramatic escalation following several fairly quiet days here. Do 253 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 1: you assume, based on the language you're hearing from the 254 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: National Security Advisor, that the White House has good enough 255 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: intelligence to be talking like this, or are they speaking 256 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: from a place of uncertainty just in case, Well, there's 257 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: always uncertainty as it relates to Vladimir Putin. And the 258 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: only thing I would disagree with Congressman Himes on a 259 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: great interview and his perch on the Intelligence Committee. He's 260 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: got a lot more insight than I do, but he 261 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: says Putin is an entirely shameless Putin is entirely shameless. 262 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: And and so I think that anybody who says that 263 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: you know what's Putin's thinking right now is ill informed. 264 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: So I think they're doing the right thing. They're creating 265 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: a prescription for what happens if something goes wrong, and 266 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,719 Speaker 1: and so they're also casting a lot of spotlight on 267 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin, which he probably doesn't want. And so, right 268 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: in the middle of the Olympics, Vladimir Putin is the 269 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 1: number one issue. He's he's over um taken. The Olympics 270 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: is the number one issue in the world, and and 271 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: he ought to be the number one issue because pressure 272 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: on him, uh is the only way to keep this 273 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: saying under control. Well, I mean, an invasion would open 274 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: obviously a major new chapter in this saga. Here, Genie, 275 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: to the point that we are talking about Vladimir Putin 276 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: every day. Is there any chance that he just sits 277 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: back at some point and calls this a big win. 278 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: I think there is a chance that he could decide 279 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: to go either way. I don't think we know, but 280 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: again that's why I think the administration is right to 281 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: go based on the facts. If you have a hundred 282 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: and thirty thousand troops on the border, the Ukraine says 283 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: it is surround did on all sides that those that 284 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: is the reality, what you know, what is being said. 285 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: He could go either way. Those things could all happen, 286 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: But I think we have to be sober enough to 287 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: say he has the capacity should he decide to go in, 288 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: and also listen to his words. He has said over 289 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: and over again the Ukraine is not an independent state. 290 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: It will never be. And then the two documents he 291 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: sent to the United States to sign, he said, signed them, 292 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: or we will find another way. And I think the 293 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: United States has to take that statement and those statements 294 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: very seriously. So what the heck happens on this call tomorrow? Rick, 295 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: I mean, the carrots and sticks have been out there 296 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks really, since the last time 297 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: they spoke. Certainly since Putin met with with Emmanuel Macrone 298 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: that was less than a week ago. Is this a 299 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: phone call that says, hey, are you guys invading or not? 300 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: You know, I think that I think that Biden will 301 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: probably it would be more one sided. I mean, if 302 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: you think Lavrov's comments about you know, one mute speaking 303 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: to one deaf person, I think it's the same thing, right. Uh, 304 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: Biden will not be mute. He'll say, Look, we've got 305 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: all of Europe allied with US. Uh, nord Stream two 306 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: is gonna get shut down. I said it publicly, I'm 307 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: telling you personally, Uh, you're gonna have a disaster on 308 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: your hands with the economy and your state. And uh, 309 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: it's not worth the threat. And and we we know 310 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: what you're doing. And there's no secret here, the fact 311 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: that they've actually forecast of this all in the press 312 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: all around the world. It's it's actually been a great 313 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: unifying thing for democracies all around the world. I mean, 314 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: like there's a more unified approach to Russia today than 315 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: there was when all this started. And that's bad news 316 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: for for Vladimir Putin. I don't right now, I think 317 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: his his options are very limited. He can be the 318 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: global bad guy for the rest of his term of office, 319 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: which is as long as he breathes, or he can 320 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: start looking at how to cut a deal. Yeah, so 321 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: this is one last morning, then this meeting tomorrow, Jennie, 322 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: I think so, And I think the challenge for the 323 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: United States is to help Germany get out of the 324 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: app it is in between its diplomatic relationships and alliances 325 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: and it's real dependence on Russia in terms of gas 326 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 1: and oil. That is a real dependence. And so you know, 327 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: that is what the United States and it's NATO allies 328 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: need to do. Because we heard when Schultz was here 329 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: he was reluctant to talk specifically about nord Stream to 330 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: the United States if they are going to hit Russia 331 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: with sanctions, most people say, the only real hurt we 332 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: can do is in terms of gas and oil. Sure 333 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: we can, we can impact them in other ways, but 334 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: the real hurt would be gas and oil. That is 335 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: their main stream of revenue. That's the most important sector. 336 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,239 Speaker 1: That's where we've got to hit them, and that's going 337 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: to require that we are aligned with Germany in terms 338 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: of nord Stream. To chance of Schultz meeting with Vladimir 339 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: Putinently scheduled to next week, Rick, do we work out 340 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: a deal with the guitar he's between now and then 341 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: that gives Germany energy independence from Moscow? Yeah? I think 342 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: that those are That's one of many things that are 343 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: happening right now. I mean, these world leaders, these Western leaders, 344 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: aren't sitting on their hands waiting for Vladimir Putina act. 345 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: They're out shopping for gas, They're shopping for oil. They're 346 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: looking for anything they can to ensure that whatever he does, 347 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: if he does the worst, they're protected and and frankly, 348 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: that's another reason Vladimir Putin's put himself in an alert, 349 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: because now people aren't going to be so dependent upon him. 350 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: Rick and Janie are with us for the hour our 351 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: signature panel on Bloomberg Sound on, and a lot more 352 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 1: to talk about with regard to this and breaking news 353 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: from Canada. A judge just moved to end the trucker convoy, 354 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: but as shut down border crossings into the US and 355 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 1: throne the economy into even more of a tailspin. We'll 356 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: talk about it with the mayor of Windsor, Canada. Next. 357 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:44,400 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. The word came down less than an 358 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: hour ago. A Canadian judge ordering protesters blocking the border 359 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: crossing between Detroit and Windsor, Canada to move out. Remembering 360 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: this all started as the truck convoy. You probably heard 361 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: first about the trucker's right protesting COVID vaccine mandates. But 362 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: it's grown into something a lot bigger, impacting other border crossings, 363 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: involving other issues, and it's interrupted trade between our two countries. 364 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,400 Speaker 1: Put it more pressure on supply chains. Automakers are canceling 365 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: shifts because of this. I spoke earlier with the Mayor 366 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: of winds Or, Canada, Drew Dilkins, about what happens next 367 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: now after this court ruling. He says, with the injunction, 368 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: they are ready to bring this to an end. There's 369 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,360 Speaker 1: a whole strategy being put in place, but of course 370 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: law enforcement is a central part of that. We have 371 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: police resources that have been sent down here from from 372 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: all across Ontario and elsewhere in Canada, including members of 373 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: the Royal Canadian amount of Police who are here UH 374 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: and public order units, and so they are ready to 375 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: move as appropriate. Our goal still being the peaceful resolution 376 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: of this protest, that the protesters will drive away bond 377 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 1: their own volition. But if they do not decide to 378 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: do that, then we will take steps to make sure 379 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: that we can reopen this border crossing and get trade 380 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 1: flown again to our countries. You must have a lot 381 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: of tow trucks at the handy well. It's gonna take 382 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: some time, and there's no doubt it's going to take 383 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: some resources. But at the end of the day, this 384 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: is an illegal blockade. UH. And they're choking off the 385 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: busiest border crossing between our two countries. And for perspective, UH, 386 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about four hundred million dollars a day that 387 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: crosses at that border crossing. UH. And so any closure 388 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: is felt immediately, especially by the auto sector who works 389 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: in a just in time delivery world, but it's felt 390 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: materially by not just the auto sector, by so many 391 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: other manufacturers, produce agriculture workers, UH and pretty much everyone 392 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: in between. There are it's fair to say that there 393 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: are hundreds of thousands of families shoe on both sides 394 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: of the border that rely on this border crossing and 395 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: the smooth and efficient operation of the same. Well. We're 396 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: hearing about FOURD and GM cutting shifts because of this. 397 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: I know the US Chamber of Commerce has warned about 398 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: supply disruptions even worse than we were already experiencing because 399 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: of COVID and and and unrelated economic effects. Uh, this 400 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: is an economic threat to your city of Windsor. Oh, 401 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,239 Speaker 1: this is an economic threat to my nation. Yes, it's 402 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: absolutely critical for my city being the auto capital of Canada. 403 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: But this is a this is a national crisis for 404 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: the U. S as well. I mean, we we have 405 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: and I think it's fair to say, for perspective, if 406 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: you look at Windsor and Detroit, each being our respective 407 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: auto capitals of our country, the supply chains are so 408 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: tightly integrated on both sides of the border, and for 409 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: for perspective on that, a vehicle that rolls off the 410 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: assembly line, either in Detroit or in Windsor, the parts 411 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: that go into production of that vehicle across the border 412 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: about six times before it rolls off the finish line. 413 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: Are there any alternative routes that you're able to use 414 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 1: as their ferry services or any way around this? There 415 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: really is no other practical alternative that's not currently choked off. 416 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: So about two hours away in Sarnia, there's another border crossing, 417 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: but protesters are also blocking up there, and so it 418 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: really is creating a stalemate at our international crossings that 419 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: cannot be allowed to continue. You cannot have peaceful protests 420 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 1: disrupting the economy of two nations. Uh. And something has 421 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: to happen, and something will happen in short order. I'm sure. 422 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: Are the protesters allowing anyone to pass, anyone anything getting by? Well, 423 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: here's the problem, Joe. You've got a protest on the 424 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 1: ground that is basically a leaderless movement, And so you 425 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: do have some folks here who are concerned about COVID 426 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: rules and restrictions and mask mandates and those types of things. 427 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,959 Speaker 1: But you have people here who are protests and climate 428 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 1: change initiatives. You have people here who are just angry 429 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: at government in general. Uh. And I would describe the 430 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: folks who are here being more analogous to the types 431 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: of protesters you'd find at a G seven or G 432 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: twenty protest. Uh. It really runs the gamut, and so 433 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: there there is no leader to negotiate with, and so 434 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: from time to time police have been able to find 435 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: a pathway to open a lane of traffic. Uh. And 436 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: then you know the protesters, uh, the ones who disagreed 437 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: with that particular decision will move very quickly quickly to 438 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: shut it off. And so it's been very problematic. And 439 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: you're dealing with a group of folks on the ground 440 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: who have outwardly stated that this is a pause for 441 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: which they're willing to die. Uh. And that's certainly that 442 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,959 Speaker 1: rhetoric has amped up the police response and and the 443 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,719 Speaker 1: tactical response that police will need to provide. Are they 444 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: all from Canada or is there no way to tell? 445 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say the vast majority would 446 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: be Canadians. Uh. And you know, some local, some professional 447 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 1: protesters who have come from elsewhere. It really is I 448 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: would call it a hodgepodge of folks who are here. 449 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: But listen, we hear them. We don't mind the right 450 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: to peacefully protest rules that they think are unfair. It's 451 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: the hallmark of our democracy. That's okay to protest. What's 452 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: not okay is to choke off the busiest commercial corridor 453 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: between two countries, for which hundreds of thousands of people 454 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: on either side of the border rely on being open 455 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: for their for their to put bread on their table. 456 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: How much of a security concern is this. We've talked 457 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: a lot about the economic implications. But but this is 458 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: a dangerous situation there. Yeah, I think it's fair to 459 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 1: say that. You know, we we have concerns with the 460 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: temperature on the ground with the protesters, but I have 461 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,719 Speaker 1: concerns about economic security. I have concerns about people being 462 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: able to go into Costco and Meyer and Kroger and 463 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: grocery stores UH and not having extra things on the shelf. 464 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: We are already in an environment because of COVID where 465 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 1: we have chip shortages in the auto industry, supply chain 466 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: challenges around the world. UH. And the last thing we 467 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: need is the layering on of protest by from a 468 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: Canadian perspective, by about ten percent of the population who 469 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,199 Speaker 1: have objected to getting a vaccine UH. And so the 470 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: vast majority of people in Canada do not support this group. 471 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: They want to see them move on. They've made their point, 472 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: but they want to see action to get this border 473 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: crossing reopened UH and trade flowing once again. We're talking 474 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: with may Or Drew Dilkins of Windsor, Canada, where this 475 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 1: trucker convoy protests you've been hearing so much about is 476 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: happening right now. I know the US Department of Homeland 477 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: Security is talking about as well, mayor possible trucker protests 478 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: like these, targeting events in the US this weekend, the 479 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: Super Bowl and then eventually the State of the Union. 480 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: They say in Washington, based on what you've experienced here, 481 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: how would you move to prevent such an interruption? Well, 482 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: I think you're going to have to have some legislative 483 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: tools in place. And it is very, very difficult because 484 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: these aren't just all semi trailer drivers, you know, driving around. 485 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: The vast majority of cars that are here are just 486 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: that their pickup tracks and vehicles. Uh and so it's 487 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: it's not they are not easily distinguishable, uh as they 488 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: may have been at the very start of the protest, 489 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 1: which was really wrapped up with a core group of 490 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: truck drivers. Uh. And so I think there has to 491 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 1: be a legislative response, which are our government provincially is 492 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: putting in place saying that they are going to be 493 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: fines of up to one thousand dollars. The truckers and 494 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: the people who are are are part of these protests 495 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 1: could lose their commercial vehicle operator's license. They may lose 496 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,399 Speaker 1: their driving license entirely. Uh. And so that is the 497 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: type of effort that the government is looking at, and 498 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,120 Speaker 1: with the state of emergency that the Province of Ontario 499 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: declared today puts them, puts them in a position to 500 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: be able to move forward on some of these tools 501 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: that will get a lot of these protesters to think 502 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 1: long and hard about their position and what they're doing. 503 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 1: Mayor Drew Dilkins, we thank you for your time on 504 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: a chaotic day today and wish you luck with a resolution. Yeah, 505 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 1: thanks very much. Joe. We should note the order here. Uh, 506 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: this judge's order is effective seven pm to give the 507 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: protesters time to leave. This is Eastern time here, so 508 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 1: another ninety minutes or so. We want to bring in 509 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: Josh wind Grove as part of this conversation, Bloomberg White 510 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: House reporter, also a native of Canada. Josh, we are 511 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: not strangers to anti vax protests in this country. It's 512 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: been a really big part of the COVID story. Mayor 513 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: Dilkins just said, they're willing to die for their cause. 514 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 1: Is this movement as widespread? Is the nation is divided 515 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: in Canada as it is in the U. S Over COVID? Oh? No, no? 516 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: And what what often happens Joe with these stories is 517 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: you know, Canada, stuff doesn't often spill into the news. 518 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: The States were used to it, We're used to a job. 519 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: But usually once it does, there's a convergence. In other words, 520 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: the story you here in the States, it tends to 521 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: be the story here in Canada that does not happen here. 522 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 1: And if anything, it's going the other way. This has 523 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: been egged on in particular by you know, Fox News 524 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: and what have you. But this is not anymore at 525 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: least if it ever was a trucker protest. It's leaders 526 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: to they sent there are any are sort of your 527 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: more run of the male, anti government, anti establishment, anti 528 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: mandate folks, and so there's it's not really about one thing. 529 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: And as an example, Mayor Dilkins is talking about the 530 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,120 Speaker 1: Ambassador Bridge now Joe that there's a tunnel that goes 531 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: under that river and trucks, excuse me, cars can use it, 532 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: busses can use it, pretty much everyone but semi trucks 533 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: cannot use it. So a movement that nominally began about 534 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: truckers and about vaccine mandates that the border that people 535 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: worried would impact supply chains with that bridge, is now 536 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 1: taking hostage almost literally only truckers working truckers and the 537 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 1: supply chains that they sort of set out to raise 538 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: the alarm one, so it's really flipped on its head. 539 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: And even if they clear that, when their border closures 540 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: at other parts in the country is certainly much less 541 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,360 Speaker 1: busy than this bridge, which is really the ball game 542 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 1: when it comes to the auto sector in the Canada, 543 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: in the US trade. But then there of course there's 544 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,479 Speaker 1: sort of that you know Queen be Nest protest up 545 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: in Ottawa that has a lot more dug in, you know, 546 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: four or five times as many vehicles, many more semi trucks, 547 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,920 Speaker 1: many more heavy equipment, pieces of heavy equipment. So that'll 548 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: be a different kettle of fish if and when police 549 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: decide to move on that as well, what do you 550 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: think happens by seven o'clock? Are they going to move out? 551 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: I hope there is no injury or death, but it 552 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: is a messy It is a messy scenario. But yeah, 553 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: I mean we've seen these things disperse in other cities. Toronto, 554 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: for instance, was able to disperse peacefully their protest here. Um, 555 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: you know, one issue you have here is is again 556 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 1: mayor the mayor Dulcins alluded to it. There's no clear leader, 557 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: there's no sort of figurehead. Uh. Conservative politicians have been 558 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: grappling with this. You know, a lot of these people 559 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: are frankly conservative voters, you know, the Conservative politicians in 560 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: Canada and hesitant to sort of come out ahead of it. 561 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: One in particular looks like he might be the next 562 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: federal Conservative leader. Has been sharing it on the Conservative 563 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: premier Ontario, which includes Windsor came out against it today 564 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: pretty somewhat strongly. So you know, there's been this sort 565 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: of divide Joe. But we're going to see. But I 566 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: think let's say they do clear it, God willing, it's 567 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: peaceful or as peaceful as can be. I think we 568 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: of course, we'll see a risk that it will pop 569 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: up either there or elsewhere again, and this these things 570 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: will roll. There are reports, I will say that their 571 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: measures are going to ease on Kennedy US border crossings 572 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: next week, so you know, maybe there'll be some olive 573 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: brandes here. But I think we'll see the federal government 574 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: sort of bend over backwards to say that they're not caving, 575 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: but maybe that will be enough to sort of lower 576 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: the tension. What do you make of the idea that 577 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: this takes on a life of its own here in 578 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: the US, that there's a convoy starting in California, they 579 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: get it started the Super Bowl. I'm sure you've seen this, 580 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: and they end up shutting down Washington for the State 581 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: of the Union. I don't know how you shut down Washington, Josh. 582 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: Is more than one bridge coming into this city. Yeah, 583 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: And I think American police are a little more keen 584 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: to dig in than the Canadian police are part of this, Joe. 585 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: Is the Ottawa police just got caught flat footed. I mean, 586 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 1: they just didn't think it would become the thing that 587 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: it has become. So yeah, look, I think there are 588 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: competing forces here in the US. Number One, we don't 589 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: have the lockdowns here in the US anywhere near that 590 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: they've had in Canada, so the pressure cooker really isn't 591 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: there in the same way. But number two, you have 592 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: probably a broader public support for this position in Canada. 593 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: This protest is pretty unpopular in the US. It wouldn't 594 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: be as unpopular, So those make it hard to say. 595 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: Do I expect that I will hear truck air horns 596 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 1: around the White House in the coming weeks, Joe, Yeah, 597 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: I think I do, so, you know, uh, think about 598 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: sound on you know, probably we'll be here, we'll be 599 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: hearing that because I think we'll see some of it 600 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: in some cases. Is there is there going to be 601 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: a briefing on this in the next week. That is crazy. Uh, 602 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: stuff is coming to Washington. People need to be careful. 603 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: It's coming up their radar now, mostly because of course, 604 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: at the impact of this bridge, like a hundred and 605 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: forty billion a year or so is what that bridge 606 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: was on pace four by one estimate this year. I 607 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: would know them building a second bridge because it was 608 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: never a very good idea to have all your eggs 609 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: in one basket. But it's gonna be a few years 610 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,959 Speaker 1: before that's done. But the White House, I think put 611 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: it this way. They're talking about briefings by Lishow with Randell, 612 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: their Homeward Homeland Security advisor. When they talk about this issue, 613 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: they view this as a homeland security issue, and I 614 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: think they'll continue to Well, we remember there was a 615 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: trucker rally you know in Washington, think it was two 616 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: thousand over diesel fuel prices. We've seen this kind of stuff. 617 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 1: We saw truckers for Trump. I think you heard those 618 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: horns yourself, Joshua, wouldn't be the first time that happened. Yeah, absolutely, 619 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: And you know in Canada this this has been an issue. 620 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: And remember the at least nominally this began because both 621 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: Canada and the US in January required truckers crossing the 622 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: border to be vaccinated. In Canada, nine something percent about 623 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: have done that, and major trucking companies have been distancing 624 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: themselves from the protest. They were criticizing the mandate, but 625 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: once a mandate was in place, they said, it hasn't 626 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: made a big difference. Than we're distancing themselves from the protests. 627 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: So again, this is less a trucker protest than it 628 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: is a sort of anti establishment, anti mandate quote unquote 629 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: freedom protest that is invoking truckers, but actual truckers by 630 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: and large are staying heck away from it. Fascinating conversation 631 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: and great perspective from Josh wind Grow. Thank you, josh 632 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: thank you being with us year White House reporter pulled 633 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: into many different conversations on Bloomberg TV and radio because 634 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,720 Speaker 1: he's a man of many skills. So the blockade is 635 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: coming down at the bridge, I guess the Ambassador Bridge 636 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,600 Speaker 1: unless something different happens here. The judge has ruled, as 637 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: you heard, is discuss with Josh wind Grove and the 638 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: mayor of Windsor, Ontario. But they're gonna give a little 639 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: bit of time to get out of there. I'm more 640 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: curious about the bigger picture here though, in the possibility 641 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: of this coming to the US. And that's where we 642 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: pick up with the panel with Bloomberg Politics contributors Jeanie 643 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: Shenzano and Rick Davis. Rick, what do you make of 644 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,959 Speaker 1: this idea of the convoy starting this weekend in California? 645 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: They say, And it's snowballs as it rolls across the 646 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: US on its way to shut down the nation's capital 647 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: in time for the State of the Union. Is there 648 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: enough organization, enough anger to make that happen? You know, 649 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if there's enough anger to make it happen. 650 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't make sense to me, and I 651 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,240 Speaker 1: could be just out of touch, but my senses, any 652 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: chance people have these days to protests, they're gonna they're 653 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 1: gonna probably take it. Um. I think the dynamics a 654 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: little different here. I mean, like my money's on the 655 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: teamsters to say, hey, wait a minute, we're not getting 656 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: paid in all those trucks, let's not roll them. Uh So, my, 657 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: I think there's a slightly different political dynamic, as Josh 658 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: pointed out, between you know, the lower forty eight and 659 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: the and our cousins to the north. On the other hand, 660 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: after January six, Genie, you hear about a trucker convoy 661 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: coming to shut down the Beltway, it just has a 662 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: different ring to it than it did when it was 663 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: you know, do protesting diesel prices or even the truckers 664 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: for Trump that that we just referenced. That's right, And 665 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: I thought Josh was so on point when he said, 666 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: you know, if we're describing this um you know, repeatedly 667 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: as a trucker's protest, but it's really an anti establishment, 668 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,359 Speaker 1: anti mandate freedom protest. Yeah. And as the mayor said 669 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,720 Speaker 1: to you, rightly, so there's no it's a leaderless movement. 670 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: It's so diffuse, and on the one hand, that makes 671 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 1: it really really difficult who do you negotiate with if 672 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: if you have to. And on the other hand, I 673 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: think it makes it much tougher to have a copycat 674 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 1: in the United States. I mean, you know, to to 675 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: Josh's point, you can't imagine the the officials in d 676 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: C allowing something like this to choke off. Yeah right, 677 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: I mean so, so I think that's that's very difficult 678 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: to imagine. But you know, let's underscore the fact we've 679 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: heard people like Senator Ted Cruz describe what's happening at 680 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 1: the border as being conducted by heroes, the conservative freedom fighters. 681 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 1: The conservative media has been pumping this up to such 682 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: an extent, and I think that's where some of the 683 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 1: focus has to lie, because that is truly what is 684 00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: ramping this up. Is there a danger there? Rick? We 685 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,439 Speaker 1: all what happened when you start pumping fists around January six, 686 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a good show until something bad happens. Yeah, 687 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:09,919 Speaker 1: that's right, And I think it was right for Josh 688 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: to issue some you know cautions that, um, you know, 689 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 1: we hope this all resolves itself peacefully. Certainly we would 690 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: want it to not be anything violent here in the 691 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: United States. But I mean, like you're you're kind of 692 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 1: being convinced that somehow, Take Cruz has poll and I'm 693 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: just not sure who he's talking to other than himselves 694 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: these days? Is this more Occupy Wall Street than it 695 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,839 Speaker 1: is some anti vax uh you know, COVID related sort 696 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: of protest your point earlier, Rick, when you try to 697 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: identify what's really going on here. Yeah, I think this 698 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 1: is anti establishment. As Jennie said, it doesn't really have 699 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: anything to do with vaccines. Truckers are vaccinated. It's not 700 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: gonna affect their bottom line. But look, people are finding 701 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 1: reasons to get angry these days. And uh, just watch 702 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 1: the Olympics and settled down root for USA. Shut that, 703 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: shut up? Are you hearing about this? Uh at school, 704 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 1: Genie or students you know worked up about this? Or 705 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 1: or is this actually you know, a creation? I think 706 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: as Josh suggested, of of conservative media, Fox News and 707 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: so on. You know, they have talked about it. I think, 708 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: you know, for these young people, I think it's they 709 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 1: are so amazed by what is going on every day 710 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: as they look around. I have to say that this 711 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: was just another one where they sort of dropped their 712 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: jaw and said, how could so few people stop? You know, 713 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: what was the number we heard from may Or four 714 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,600 Speaker 1: hundred million dollars a day crosses back and forth at 715 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,760 Speaker 1: that border. That is being stopped by a very small number. 716 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 1: To Rick's point of these truckers are vaccinated, not even 717 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: involved in this, and you've got a few people choking 718 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: this off. It's utterly incredible when you think about it. 719 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: And yet that's the times we're living in. And I 720 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: would just go back to the conservative aspect of this, 721 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: because yes, Senator Crews may not be talking to the 722 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: vast majority of Americans, but you only have to talk 723 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: to a few people on social media to cause this 724 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: kind of issue. And look, let's look at the money 725 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,760 Speaker 1: they've raised. A huge millions of dollars that we saw 726 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 1: had to be shut off by go fund me, and 727 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: that has now moved to this conservative you know, this 728 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: conservative Christian crowdfunding platform UM which I won't name, but 729 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 1: you know they've raised a lot of money on these platforms. 730 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: I said earlier this hour, we live in interesting times. 731 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: As we head for the weekend, I would love to 732 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: hear from Rick and Jeanie on what to look out 733 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: for the next couple of days. I suspect the administration 734 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: is going to have people fanned out Sunday morning on 735 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: this Russia Ukraine matter. When you hear though, Rick that 736 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: that Joe Biden's at Camp David with donal and and 737 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: the other close advisors that he's going to be talking 738 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: with Vladimir Putin tomorrow. I guess he'll be doing that 739 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: from the situation room at Camp David. How important is 740 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: this weekend when everybody goes away and is not looking 741 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: their their partying with the super Bowl, this is going 742 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: to be going on in the background. How concerned are 743 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,399 Speaker 1: you about the next two days. Yeah. I think part 744 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: of what the administration is trying to do is keep 745 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 1: it in the foreground. Uh, it is a lot of competition, 746 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: and you've got Super Bowl in the Olympics, and that's 747 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: that's tough, right, But uh, but they want to keep 748 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,879 Speaker 1: the spotlight on Putin. They want to keep the heat 749 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: on Putin. I think they feel like they might have 750 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 1: some momentum to try and you know, sort of pinch 751 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: him in a little bit with the alliance of Western 752 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: nations all coming together. So I think they're gonna want 753 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,720 Speaker 1: to really portray this as we're working hard to protect 754 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: the people of the Ukraine in the free world. And 755 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: and I would see a big push after the Putin 756 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: conversation on Saturday and throughout the Sunday shows. Uh, you know, 757 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: it gives you something to do while you're warming up 758 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,360 Speaker 1: for the Super Bowl Sunday shows. That's right, we're gonna 759 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,280 Speaker 1: get the I'm sure there'll be an image of that meeting, right, Jennie, 760 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: We're gonna see Vladimir putting up on the screens, a 761 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: stern looking Joe Biden at Camp David. Maybe he's got 762 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,320 Speaker 1: the he's got the fleece on or something. Uh, maybe 763 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: the I don't know what exactly the setting will be. 764 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,439 Speaker 1: Maybe it's this national security team around him. But what 765 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: what comes after that? We don't tend to see the 766 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: president when he's at Camp David. Is it is it 767 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: phone calls with allies through the weekend. Are they gaming 768 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: out different scenarios this weekend? I think that's what they 769 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 1: have to be doing. They have to be in constant 770 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: communication with our allies and they have to be looking 771 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 1: at what are basically have come down to these three 772 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: options for Russians. If they decided Russia, they decide to 773 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: go in, you know, they can go in the north, 774 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: and that's where there's concerned that Americans will be impacted. 775 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: If they go in via the Belarus border into Kiev, 776 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,359 Speaker 1: that's where Americans living there would be impacted. Less so 777 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: if they go in the center by don Bas or 778 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,839 Speaker 1: the south by Crimea. But that is why I think 779 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: we are hearing that Americans need to take seriously over there, 780 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: that they need to get out. The United States troop 781 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: won't be going in. That said, in the back of 782 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: your mind, you've got to wonder if any American civilians 783 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: are killed on the ground over there, if there is 784 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: an invasion, what does the United States do? Then? That 785 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: is a huge, huge question. I don't even want to 786 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: think about it, to tell you the truth. I mean, 787 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 1: in advance of that, though, Rick, how important is it 788 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,839 Speaker 1: for the government to provide support to Americans or trying 789 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: to get the hell out of there. I wouldn't want 790 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,080 Speaker 1: to be trying to find a flight out of you 791 00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: have right now? No, I mean, that's that's gonna be tough. 792 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: I'm sure that the airlines are all bulking up to 793 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: ensure that those who want to get out get out. Uh. 794 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: And I think the administration is being very clear get 795 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 1: out all right, there's no more pussy footing around this one. 796 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: Get out now, or you're stuck there because we're not 797 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: coming for you. And I think that's a fair thing 798 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 1: for them to put out there right is. If you stay, 799 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,320 Speaker 1: it's at your own risk. We're not going to create 800 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,120 Speaker 1: a global tension that will already make things worse just 801 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,319 Speaker 1: by trying to figure out how to rescue people. So um, now, 802 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,440 Speaker 1: most people won't pay attention to that if they're already 803 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: there and you know, they're going to get themselves into trouble. 804 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 1: But look, I mean we're we're not far from the 805 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: lights going out in the Kremlin. Uh. You know, if 806 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: this thing tips off this weekend, so it is worth 807 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,640 Speaker 1: staying on top of and watching. It affects the entire world, 808 00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,359 Speaker 1: that affects people here. Uh. If if folks have relatives there, 809 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: now is the time to get them, you know, into 810 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,439 Speaker 1: safe and out of harm's way. It's all very true. 811 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,440 Speaker 1: The sense of urgency is real. And of course you 812 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 1: can count on Bloomberg Radio, Bloomberg TV and your terminal 813 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 1: to have the latest information for you. We do have 814 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 1: a breaking news environment over the weekend. We will absolutely 815 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:05,400 Speaker 1: be there for your right here. And I want to 816 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,279 Speaker 1: thank Rick and Jeannie for a great conversation today in 817 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: a series of conversations this week, I love talking all 818 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: of this stuff out with Jeanie Chanzano and Rick Davis, 819 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,840 Speaker 1: and you do too, that's why you're with us. February 820 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: is Black History Month. Every day this month we're celebrating 821 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 1: significant moments in US black history. I've really been enjoying 822 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: this series. Let's get our installment for today with Bloomberg's 823 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: Nita Young. On this day in Black History, in Nelson 824 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 1: Mandela was released from prison after twenty seven years behind bars. 825 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 1: It was a key event in ending South Africa's brutal 826 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: apartheid system of racial oppression. Tens of thousands of supporters 827 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 1: cheered on Mandela as he walked out of the prison 828 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: gates that day. After his release from prison, Mandela would 829 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: be elected President of the African National Congress. He'd continue 830 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,759 Speaker 1: to lobby for the complete disillusion of apartheid. So later 831 00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: on in the anti apartheid activists, lawyer and former political 832 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: prisoner was elected President of South Africa, ruling until that's 833 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: today in Black History. I'm Renita Young Bloomberg Radio, and 834 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. Thanks for being with us 835 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,239 Speaker 1: again on the fastest hour in politics. It does cook 836 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 1: by the Friday edition in the books, and I have 837 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:23,359 Speaker 1: a feeling we're going to have a lot to talk 838 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: about on Monday. Stay with us on Bloomberg for the weekend, 839 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 1: and I'll see you back here. This is Bloomberg.