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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Fast Politics. I'm Molly Jongfest, and

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Speaker 1: it's time to lib the fuck out. Later in the show,

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Speaker 1: we will talk to Anne Applebaum about how she thinks

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Speaker 1: Trump will behave as a loser authoritarian. But first, we

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Speaker 1: have PsychoPolitics' own George Conway on where the Dems go

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Speaker 1: next and a fair amount of gloating. Welcome, welcome, George Conway.

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Speaker 2: Hey.

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Speaker 1: 47 times Donald Trump said he was on the ballot.

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Speaker 1: 47 times.

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Speaker 2: I believe him because he always tells the truth.

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Speaker 1: You know, he said after the tsunami that was the

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Speaker 1: 2026 repudiation of Trump.

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Speaker 2: Do you think he could spell tsunami? Do you think

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Speaker 2: he could spell tsunami?

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Speaker 1: Not many people know that it has a T.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 3: That's true.

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Speaker 1: The same people who don't know what incumbent means don't

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Speaker 1: know that dumb has a B.

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Speaker 2: It's the same people.

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Speaker 1: The very same.

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Speaker 3: Very same.

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Speaker 2: Yes. So, yes, he said 47 times. He said seven times,

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Speaker 2: I think somebody told me, on Monday that he was

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Speaker 2: on the ballot. And I think Americans took his word

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Speaker 2: for it. I think they did. I think that's... They

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Speaker 2: took his word for it.

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Speaker 1: It was as much a repudiation of Trumpism as we've

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Speaker 1: probably ever seen.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 2: And probably as much as we'll ever see since I

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Speaker 2: don't I don't think his shelf life is very long

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Speaker 2: at this point.

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Speaker 1: So many of the Trumpiest candidates lost. And but I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about what Trump did. So he said,

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Speaker 1: it's me on the ballot. He said it is that

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Speaker 1: you should vote like he's on the ballot. And then

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Speaker 1: he immediately today, as he's doing his sort of press tour,

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Speaker 1: he said that, in fact, he wasn't him on the ballot.

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Speaker 2: We said that last night, too. Right. Yeah. We would

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Speaker 2: have won in a landslide. They tweeted that out and.

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Speaker 2: They made statements last night as things were getting from

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Speaker 2: bad to worse. And it was relatively early, I thought.

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Speaker 2: Last night, one of the great things about last night

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Speaker 2: is I got a good night's sleep. I went to

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Speaker 2: bed early. They call Texas, do you realize? Texas was

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Speaker 2: called by 10 p.m. Texas time, okay? The governor's race

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Speaker 2: and the senatorial race. But anyway, they were saying last

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Speaker 2: night they were dumping... The White House was saying, well,

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Speaker 2: that's because this happened because Trump wasn't on the ballot,

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Speaker 2: even though he said 47 times that he should be

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Speaker 2: treated as though he were on the ballot. And then

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Speaker 2: he started talking about, they started talking about, well, I

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Speaker 2: can't help this because, you know, candidate quality matters.

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Speaker 3: Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait.

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Speaker 2: Who picked out Ken Paxton because he was the most

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Speaker 2: corrupt fucking human being on earth? second to Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: and therefore could be depended upon by Donald Trump, who

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Speaker 2: picked up out this scatterbrained Darlene Graham, who was wondering

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Speaker 2: by the end of the campaign, what am I doing here?

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Speaker 2: I mean, she was like, this was like, what am

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Speaker 2: I doing here? I don't really want this job. Like

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Speaker 2: I had been, you know, it's required me to work

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Speaker 2: and talk to people and read things and learn about.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: There are these other countries out there and people apparently

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Speaker 2: want me to know who they are. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So so there was that. And then there was so

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Speaker 1: there was a repudiation of Trumpism in pretty much the

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Speaker 1: most spectacular fashion. I think that's fair to say.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's fair. Yes.

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Speaker 1: I want to read. Sean T., Twitter pollster or Twitter

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Speaker 1: right-wing guy. Sean Trendy at RCP. If you are watching this,

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Speaker 1: because I drink their tears. I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: drink their tears, but I drink their tears.

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Speaker 2: It's too salty for me.

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Speaker 1: Okay, if you are watching this and you have a

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Speaker 1: passing familiarity with elections, just understand what you're seeing is

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Speaker 1: something special. A hundred-year flood, easily the worst election for

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Speaker 1: a party since 1974. What happened.

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Speaker 2: In 1974? 1974, the Republicans got shellacked because there was

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Speaker 2: a corrupt president who resigned because he was so corrupt

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Speaker 2: that even his office members of his own party could

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Speaker 2: not tolerate him and were ready to vote to remove

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Speaker 2: him from office after he was voted after his three

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Speaker 2: articles of impeachment were voted through the House Judiciary Committee.

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Speaker 2: And then his successor, the unelected new president of the

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Speaker 2: United States, who was not elected with the president, but

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Speaker 2: was appointed pursuant to a new provision of the Constitution,

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Speaker 2: then pardoned said corrupt former resigned president. And people were

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Speaker 2: angry about that. And that resulted in a Blue tsunami.

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Speaker 2: I mean, not that it was less of a tsunami.

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Speaker 2: As I remember, I was 11 years old when it

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Speaker 2: happened because the Democrats already basically had substantial majority control

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Speaker 2: of both houses of Congress in a manner that they held.

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Speaker 1: Him responsible in a way they didn't this time.

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Speaker 3: Go on. Right.

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Speaker 2: And that's absolutely right. And that's that's sort of part

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Speaker 2: of what we need to talk about that's happening next.

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Speaker 2: You know what what this Democratic Congress is going to do.

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Speaker 2: And I, you know, I have to say, I saw

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Speaker 2: something on Twitter that was, you know, a clip from

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Speaker 2: today's Morning Joe. And maybe it was an unfair clip.

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Speaker 2: It was a clip of soon to be speaker Hakeem Jeffries. Yes.

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Speaker 2: And he said in this quote, and maybe again, maybe

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Speaker 2: he said something that was inconsistent with this later. I

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Speaker 2: did not watch Morning Joe this morning. But he said,

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Speaker 2: and this is the paraphrase that was in the video.

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Speaker 2: The American people don't want us to get even. They

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Speaker 2: want us to get things done on their behalf because

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Speaker 2: life is way too expensive. We ran on affordability, we

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Speaker 2: won on affordability, and it's our job to govern on affordability.

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Speaker 2: And that's right, except there's no issue about getting even, okay?

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Speaker 2: And what I just, I just sort of, I just

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Speaker 2: tweeted this out because I was just like saying, you know,

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Speaker 2: you can't put it that way. It's not about getting even. Yes,

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Speaker 2: Congress has to focus on affordability, but it doesn't run

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Speaker 2: the executive branch. It can pass laws, but the problem is,

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Speaker 2: I mean, the problem is a lot of people don't

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Speaker 2: actually understand how the government works, but let me set

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Speaker 2: that aside for a minute. It's not a question of

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Speaker 2: getting even, was my comment on this. It's not even

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Speaker 2: a question.

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Speaker 3: It's a duty.

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Speaker 2: It's a power and duty of Congress to provide oversight

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Speaker 2: to ensure the executive branch is being run in accordance

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Speaker 2: with the constitutional laws that the Congress has enacted on

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Speaker 2: the people's behalf and to make sure that the tax dollars...

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Speaker 2: are being spent on for the permissible purposes. And that

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Speaker 2: power and duty is essential to what Congress is supposed

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Speaker 2: to do.

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Speaker 3: It was exercised.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Hamilton, you know, you read about Alexander Hamilton,

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Speaker 2: the first Congress, the Washington administration, Congress tortured Hamilton because

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Speaker 2: they wanted to make sure that the money was being

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Speaker 2: spent in accordance with their commands.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: We have seen the most corrupt administration of our lifetimes,

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Speaker 2: perhaps in the entire history of the United States. It's

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Speaker 2: not about getting even. It's about Congress doing its fucking job,

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Speaker 2: which is to oversee the executive branch. And one of

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Speaker 2: the things I learned, frankly, earlier in the year when

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Speaker 2: I made my foolish decision to run for Congress... is

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Speaker 2: that a lot of people, even in this district that

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Speaker 2: we are both in right now, the most highly educated

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Speaker 2: district in the United States of America, congressional district, a

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Speaker 2: lot of these people don't understand how government works, that Congress,

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Speaker 2: we're going to elect a Congress and Congress will change things.

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Speaker 2: It's like, no, no, no. Congress passes laws, but it's

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Speaker 2: up to the president to execute them. And it's up

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Speaker 2: for Congress to make sure that the president executes them

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Speaker 2: by providing oversight. And that's the thing that I think

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Speaker 2: that is getting lost in here, that people think And

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Speaker 2: this thing cut badly for the Democrats. For our new Congress,

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Speaker 2: it's like people can't expect things immediately to get better

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Speaker 2: because Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer are in charge, right?

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Speaker 2: And because there are substantial Democratic majorities because the Congress

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Speaker 2: actually does not run the government of the United States.

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Speaker 2: It's still an executive function. Congress has to light a

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Speaker 2: fire under the executive branch. Congress has to make sure that,

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Speaker 2: you know, that the president of the United States is

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Speaker 2: doing his job, which is to follow the law, as

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Speaker 2: opposed to wandering around on TV this morning, examining the

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Speaker 2: ballroom that he is illegally spending money raised from the

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Speaker 2: private sector on. And, you know, and I've made a

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Speaker 2: big deal talking about impeachment earlier in the year. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you know, I get this even from, I won't say who,

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Speaker 2: but some, you know, Oh, people tired talking about Trump.

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Speaker 2: It's like, you know, impeaching Trump.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's just so, it's like, listen, the guy has

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Speaker 3: to do his job.

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Speaker 2: He is the president. He is the executive. If the

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Speaker 2: president of the United States, and we're looking apart the

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Speaker 2: fact that he's made $ 2 billion or $ 3 billion or whatever,

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Speaker 2: and that all his cronies are ripping us off left

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Speaker 2: and right. If the president of the United States just

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Speaker 2: decided to check out and, I don't know, go to

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Speaker 2: Florida and just check out there and hang out there,

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Speaker 2: you know, eating $ 5, 000 cheeseburgers. Or flying around in an

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Speaker 2: airplane that's a gold-plated thing. And not doing his job, right?

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Speaker 2: And worrying about, I don't know, the reflective weather, you know,

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Speaker 2: painting the reflecting pool blue, which is blue because, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's not algae season anymore, but it's leave that aside.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 2: It's like this guy has not been doing his job,

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Speaker 2: even apart from the fact that he's a rapist and

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Speaker 2: a criminal.

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Speaker 1: Yes, correct. And one of the things I talked to

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Speaker 1: Ann Applebaum about later in this episode is that in

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Speaker 1: order to secure our democracy, this is necessary because it's

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Speaker 1: not about revenge. It's about preventing this from happening again.

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Speaker 2: That's also true because Congress not only has the duty

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Speaker 2: to oversee the crimes executive branch to ensure that the

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Speaker 2: laws that has previously enacted, including appropriations laws, including ethics laws,

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Speaker 2: including conflict of interest laws, including everything, you know, including,

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Speaker 2: you know, the, the constant, the, the, the, the bill

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Speaker 2: of rights, which he doesn't seem to have a lot

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Speaker 2: of respect for, whether it be the first, fourth or

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Speaker 2: fifth amendments. It is Congress's job to oversee that those

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Speaker 2: laws and the constitutional provisions that the president of the

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Speaker 2: United States swears to uphold. It is Congress's job to

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Speaker 2: hold that man's feet to the fire and to hold

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Speaker 2: the feet to the fire of all his minions. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And if Congress fails to do that, it's failing to

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Speaker 2: do in a sense like its principal object. And it's

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Speaker 2: Congress's job to pass laws to make sure that if

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Speaker 2: it doesn't have the right laws on the books to

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Speaker 2: make sure that the president doesn't His job for the people,

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Speaker 2: he'll put more loss on the book. But that partly

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Speaker 2: requires another president probably.

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Speaker 1: And why Republicans lost so big in this last election

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Speaker 1: was because voters would say, and this is why Susan

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Speaker 1: Collins lost. I mean, people liked Susan Collins in Maine.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't, but people did. But part of

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Speaker 1: why she lost was they really did not feel that

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Speaker 1: any of them would run a check on Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: because none of them did.

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Speaker 2: Right, right. I mean, she was concerned.

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Speaker 1: The point is the job of Congress is to run

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Speaker 1: a check on Donald Trump. And it's not up to

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Speaker 1: them to say, no, this is too much. Like, this

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Speaker 1: is what they're supposed to be doing. This is their job.

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Speaker 1: I want you to talk about the Republican Party for

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Speaker 1: a minute, because I don't know if you know this,

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Speaker 1: but you used to be a member of the Republican Party.

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Speaker 2: Republican Party is dead to me.

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Speaker 1: So when I met you, you were a member of

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party and you were also married to Kellyanne Conway.

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Speaker 2: No. Well, I was married to Kellyanne Conway. But actually,

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Speaker 2: I think by the time we actually met, I was

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Speaker 2: a I was a registered independent because I think we

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Speaker 2: met sometime in 2018.

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Speaker 1: OK, so the point of this story is, though, is

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Speaker 1: that the Republican Party has an opportunity to do the

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Speaker 1: funniest thing ever. and reject Trumpism because it loses it

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Speaker 1: in the ballot box. So what do you think? Like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we saw a little bit of that kind

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Speaker 1: of copum on Fox News yesterday where they're trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out what went wrong and they're talking about candidate

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Speaker 1: equality and they're talking about, because a lot of their

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Speaker 1: big cheeses, like Virginia Fox, who was the only woman

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Speaker 1: who headed a committee, is out, right? Like she lost

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Speaker 1: her seat and Stefanik is gone. A lot of the

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Speaker 1: quote unquote leaders, of the Republican Party are out. So

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Speaker 1: what do you do now?

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Speaker 2: What do you mean, what do you do now? I mean, celebrate?

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, I mean, I think the issue with

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Speaker 2: Republicans is going to be, are they really going to

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Speaker 2: stay on this ship as it sinks to the bottom

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Speaker 2: of the ocean? And I don't think, I think we're

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Speaker 2: going to see people jumping ship. I think we've already

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Speaker 2: seen it. I think we saw that today when J.D.

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Speaker 2: Vance wrote that long Twitter post that basically, I mean,

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Speaker 2: he didn't directly criticize Trump, but I mean, he did. OK.

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Speaker 2: And and then last last night and today we saw

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Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis, the soon to be former governor of Florida.

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Speaker 2: who clearly thinks of himself as a potential presidential nominee, basically,

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Speaker 2: he was basically throwing Trump over the edge of the boat, too.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that's one thing that we're going

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Speaker 2: to see over the next several weeks. And it's something,

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Speaker 2: in several months, it's something that I talked about last

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Speaker 2: year when people were saying to me, you know, you

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Speaker 2: keep talking about impeaching Trump, but that's never going to happen.

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Speaker 2: And I kept saying, you know... the Democrats could get,

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Speaker 2: you know, a real substantial, uh, a majority in the

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Speaker 2: Senate of 55 or more vote seats. And it's going

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Speaker 2: to end up with 56 probably. And then you're going

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Speaker 2: to have a bunch of people who have been basically, um,

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Speaker 2: you know, who are basically realizing that they, for their

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Speaker 2: own political survival, they got to get rid of Trump

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Speaker 2: and they got to get rid of this albatross. So,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think these two themes that we've just

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Speaker 2: been talking about, the need for congressional oversight, for aggressive

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Speaker 2: congressional investigation, aggressive congressional congressional check, in accordance with what

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Speaker 2: the drafters of the Constitution and the writers of the

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Speaker 2: Federalist Papers assumed would occur, that and impeachment and removal

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Speaker 2: of some executive officers, maybe even the president, who basically

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Speaker 2: is not going to, you know, there is no hope

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Speaker 2: that he is actually going to do his job any

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Speaker 2: more than he has over the last couple of years,

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Speaker 2: even more so now because he's like, he's mad because

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Speaker 2: somebody took his toys away. Yeah. And so I, you know,

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Speaker 2: Congress has to step up here.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 2: And if Congress doesn't step up here, the Democrats will

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Speaker 2: have won a Pyrrhic victory. They have to be tough

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Speaker 2: and they have to be aggressive. And, you know, just

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Speaker 2: sitting there saying, oh, we don't want to rock the

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Speaker 2: boat too much is not going to cut it. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's something, you know, we see a lot

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Speaker 2: of discussion about, look, I'm a newly minted Democrat, so

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Speaker 2: I don't feel the need to basically tell everybody how

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Speaker 2: to be Democrats. You're entitled to do that. But the

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Speaker 2: truth of the matter is you see a lot of

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Speaker 2: this conflict between, I don't know, people you can call

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Speaker 2: them the DSA types or the left. And you see

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Speaker 2: the people and their people criticizing from there, criticizing the

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Speaker 2: centrist corporate Republicans. And then some people criticizing the never

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Speaker 2: Trumpers who have come over and trying to help out and.

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Speaker 2: And people are in and you see some people on

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Speaker 2: in the center attacking the essay. Like the one thing

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Speaker 2: we ought to be able to agree upon in the

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Speaker 2: absence of controlling the executive branch is that the executive

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Speaker 2: branch should obey the fucking law. Yeah. And that the

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Speaker 2: people who have been stealing, stealing from the public, either by.

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Speaker 2: causing the government to do things on their behalf and

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Speaker 2: for them, or actually, you know, I don't know, getting

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Speaker 2: money for getting nice, sweet jobs in exchange for getting

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Speaker 2: pardons or whatever from the President of the United States,

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Speaker 2: that those people are held to account. They're the reason

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Speaker 2: why people are mad, because they had a government And

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Speaker 2: still have a government because the fact is Congress doesn't

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Speaker 2: run the executive branch, doesn't enforce the laws. We still

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Speaker 2: have a government that is not doing its job, which

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Speaker 2: is to function on behalf of the people in accordance

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Speaker 2: with the laws and constitution of the United States.

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Speaker 1: George Conway. Will you come back?

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Speaker 2: Always. Bye. Bye.

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Speaker 3: Let's be real. It's time to live the fuck out.

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Speaker 3: This is going to be just... I am in just

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Speaker 3: as good a mood as I could ever be because, well,

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Speaker 3: we were right about a lot of things, weren't we?

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Speaker 3: And we had a lot of candidates on who won.

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Speaker 1: Everybody won everywhere.

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Speaker 3: The quote I like is Sean Trendy's, which called it

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Speaker 3: a hundred year flood and easily the worst election for

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Speaker 3: a party since 1974.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they just lost everywhere. And part of that, I think, right.

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Speaker 1: It's Dave Wasserman said it's a generational wipeout. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's right. I mean, I think part of it

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Speaker 1: is like. you have a situation here where Republicans refused

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Speaker 1: to run a check on the incumbent. Like they refused.

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Speaker 1: They never, you know, at every point they just went

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Speaker 1: along with whatever Trump wanted. And so voters, and you

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Speaker 1: saw this, like in all the exit interviews, voters were like, why,

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Speaker 1: why should we support these people? Why have them in

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Speaker 1: office if they're not going to do anything? And I

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Speaker 1: think that was a really important point. Some of the

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Speaker 1: losers were, are some of my favorite losers. Like we

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Speaker 1: have Mike Lawler, enemy of this podcast, I think it's fair, right?

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

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Speaker 1: We have, you know, Lauren Boebert. That was one that,

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Speaker 1: you know, like a boil on Congress. Virginia Fox, right?

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Speaker 3: I didn't know about Virginia. Man, I was texting some

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Speaker 3: friends about that one.

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Speaker 1: This is us living, listeners and viewers, this is us

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Speaker 1: living out. Yeah, and I mean, it was just like,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that Mississippi is probably going to elect

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Speaker 1: the first Black senator since Reconstruction, and he is going

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Speaker 1: to be a Democrat. And he would have been a

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Speaker 1: judge had Cindy Hyde-Smith not refused to sign his blue slip. And,

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Speaker 1: you know, remember, like, a lot of the turnout was

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Speaker 1: because the Supreme Court, you know, ruled with Calais and

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Speaker 1: really did decimate the CBC. And so in a way,

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Speaker 1: like voters came back and took back their power, the

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Speaker 1: power that that Republicans really wanted to take from them.

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Speaker 1: And so in my mind, this is like an incredible

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Speaker 1: moment in just any in many different ways. Stefanik is out.

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Speaker 1: The guy who won her seat is a rapper. A batter.

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Speaker 3: Rapper.

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Speaker 1: A bad rapper who probably will probably be hearing. He's

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Speaker 1: probably sort of MAGA 2.0.

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Speaker 3: In my words, he will be what Marjorie Taylor Greene

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Speaker 3: used to be, where we would we all every day,

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Speaker 3: every time they open their mouth, go, I can't believe

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Speaker 3: we're dealing with this shit.

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Speaker 1: And and I just want to say one other thing

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Speaker 1: is like we were we talked about the worry of

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Speaker 1: a polling error. And in fact, there was a polling

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Speaker 1: error there. There was, right? Cooper won by almost 20 points. Okay.

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Speaker 1: Ossoff by 18. Pappas, you'll remember, New Hampshire.

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Speaker 3: People were worried.

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Speaker 1: He won by 14 and a half points.

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Speaker 3: Text for people, my friends in Vermont and New Hampshire, like,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's going red. I see the polls, but

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Speaker 3: I don't believe it. There's signs for him everywhere.

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Speaker 2: And yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Tallarico won by 12 points. Flanagan, 10 points.

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Speaker 3: And Flanagan was another one that they had him in

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Speaker 3: a dead heat.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Turek. I mean, it's just like... Adam Hamilton, you know,

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Speaker 1: South Carolina flipped. I mean, Democrats won. And I think

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Speaker 1: what's instructive here is that and we know this to

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Speaker 1: be true from like seeing Trump's last couple elections is

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Speaker 1: that usually the swing states all go together. So North Carolina, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: New Hampshire, Texas. I mean, Texas, though. I think none

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Speaker 1: of us expected the governorship. None of us expected that.

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Speaker 1: You know, there were so many highlights tonight. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you and.

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Speaker 3: I in our private conversations, we're like, we don't know

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Speaker 3: if this is going to happen, but we sure hope it.

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Speaker 3: Let's make sure we have her on. But like, yeah, we.

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Speaker 1: Were like Abbott. We were like with Annie Andrews. We're like,

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Speaker 1: it's nice. She's great.

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Speaker 3: But, you know, like South Carolina, South Carolina.

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Speaker 1: And and Turek, who we had a bunch of times on.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and then to see Sherrod Brown just absolutely

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Speaker 1: the tech oligarchy poured money into that race and they

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Speaker 1: got rebuked. They got, I mean, rebuffed. They got all

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Speaker 1: the R words.

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Speaker 3: OK, let me let me get your thoughts because you

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Speaker 3: and I haven't talked about this. So I want a

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Speaker 3: tale of two things. Like our last episode, we were

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Speaker 3: talking with Amanda, which is still a great conversation. People

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Speaker 3: missed it yesterday. Yeah, I've been talking about where the

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Speaker 3: party goes. It's an essential, essential conversation. So feel free

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Speaker 3: to go back and listen to that if you didn't.

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Speaker 3: But here's the thing I want to pose to you.

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Speaker 3: Some of the worst Republican strategy of all time, but

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Speaker 3: some of the best Democratic communication of all time. And

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Speaker 3: I think that there's a tale of two cities here

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Speaker 3: that we have to really look at.

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Speaker 1: Those numbers are not just a blue wave. They are

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Speaker 1: a blue wave plus a red undertow, which is like

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump had a had a like closing message for

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Speaker 1: the midterms. And it was about the reflecting pool and algae.

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Speaker 3: OK, so you can't don't forget trans people where most

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Speaker 3: people have never met a trans person.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, but, you know, we did see exit interviews

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Speaker 1: of Republicans. Like there are Republicans who are scared of

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Speaker 1: trans people. That is a thing. Whereas there are no

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Speaker 1: Republicans who are like, we need to get Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: a really nice, reflecting, cool. Algae is a real problem.

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Speaker 1: Like that's not something anyone votes on.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 1: I do think like it was a once in a

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Speaker 1: lifetime kind of ability to go against someone who really

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Speaker 1: was did not have their head in the game at

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Speaker 1: this point.

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Speaker 3: You know, to say the least.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: But Democrats were really focused. And like we did see

436
00:23:22,380 --> 00:23:24,699
Speaker 1: some really good communicators who are now going to be

437
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,270
Speaker 1: in the Senate. People like James Tallarico. And there's a

438
00:23:28,330 --> 00:23:32,730
Speaker 1: really great moment last night on Fox where they're trying

439
00:23:32,770 --> 00:23:36,130
Speaker 1: to figure out what went wrong. And, you know, they're

440
00:23:36,170 --> 00:23:41,100
Speaker 1: both like those mean things that Trump and Vance said

441
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:47,500
Speaker 1: about Tallarico. They just didn't stick because it just isn't real.

442
00:23:48,380 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 3: I think that's the thing. People have a gut check

443
00:23:51,780 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 3: on these things. When you're seeing these stupid fucking AI ads.

444
00:23:55,710 --> 00:23:59,730
Speaker 3: of trans-Talarico that Elon's spending money on and Ted Cruz

445
00:23:59,790 --> 00:24:04,170
Speaker 3: is spending money on AI as Abdul being, you know,

446
00:24:04,190 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 3: some cliche Muslim. People gut check it when they see

447
00:24:07,540 --> 00:24:09,239
Speaker 3: the tight shirt and it doesn't add up to who

448
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 3: they're seeing in real life. And that's fake life. AI

449
00:24:12,420 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 3: is fake life.

450
00:24:13,619 --> 00:24:13,899
Speaker 2: Yeah.

451
00:24:14,340 --> 00:24:17,939
Speaker 1: And I think that is a really good example of

452
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,460
Speaker 1: what we're seeing at this moment, which is like, this

453
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,070
Speaker 1: is not You know, there are two things can be true.

454
00:24:24,330 --> 00:24:27,570
Speaker 1: Gas is as expensive as it's ever been. Diesel, you know,

455
00:24:28,270 --> 00:24:31,890
Speaker 1: you and I live out over Adam Hamilton, the pastor,

456
00:24:32,330 --> 00:24:35,010
Speaker 1: who is going to be a senator from Kansas for

457
00:24:35,050 --> 00:24:38,030
Speaker 1: a Senate seat in 93 years. But the reality is, like,

458
00:24:38,450 --> 00:24:41,490
Speaker 1: you don't vote for an Adam Hamilton unless you can't

459
00:24:41,670 --> 00:24:43,389
Speaker 1: afford your family farm.

460
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,820
Speaker 3: And so it's both. I will say he's a great

461
00:24:46,859 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 3: communicator like Talrico.

462
00:24:48,220 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 2: You and I are.

463
00:24:49,220 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 3: Both not disciples of Jesus Christ. And we were very,

464
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:57,020
Speaker 3: very into that, what he said. And I think he

465
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,739
Speaker 3: brought that in a good way. One of the things

466
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 3: I want to go back to, too, though, is that

467
00:25:00,260 --> 00:25:04,010
Speaker 3: like it really was that Democrats also were on the

468
00:25:04,050 --> 00:25:07,169
Speaker 3: right side of a lot of issues. AI turned out

469
00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:07,730
Speaker 3: to be a big thing.

470
00:25:08,030 --> 00:25:08,190
Speaker 1: Ice.

471
00:25:09,390 --> 00:25:13,370
Speaker 3: These Texas numbers are really showing us people who don't

472
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:15,090
Speaker 3: like the idea of I'm going to be hunted when

473
00:25:15,109 --> 00:25:15,830
Speaker 3: I leave my house.

474
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,619
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, no, the whole thing is

475
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,929
Speaker 1: just it's a great example of a perfect storm of

476
00:25:23,970 --> 00:25:28,450
Speaker 1: like a bad president with bad policies and bad governance

477
00:25:28,590 --> 00:25:33,020
Speaker 1: and racism and and and, you know, things being expensive.

478
00:25:33,060 --> 00:25:36,460
Speaker 1: And then Democrats having really good candidates like and that

479
00:25:36,740 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: is really something. And I think that's where we are.

480
00:25:40,450 --> 00:25:44,270
Speaker 3: Yeah. So what's you and I love to critique the media?

481
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:46,770
Speaker 3: I think it'd be fun to talk a little bit

482
00:25:46,810 --> 00:25:50,270
Speaker 3: about how much the media got wrong. Things like Democrats

483
00:25:50,330 --> 00:25:51,100
Speaker 3: for Mike Rogers.

484
00:25:51,470 --> 00:25:57,300
Speaker 1: So there were some people and Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, friend

485
00:25:57,340 --> 00:26:01,500
Speaker 1: of this podcast, did get, you know, he caught some

486
00:26:01,540 --> 00:26:05,930
Speaker 1: headwinds with him. You know, that was a complicated race

487
00:26:05,970 --> 00:26:08,129
Speaker 1: with a lot of feelings and a lot of people

488
00:26:08,250 --> 00:26:11,370
Speaker 1: mad at Muslims for being Muslim, I guess. I mean,

489
00:26:11,550 --> 00:26:13,250
Speaker 1: I don't know. It did seem like there was a

490
00:26:13,330 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: fair amount of racism in play there.

491
00:26:15,130 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 3: Fair, fair, yeah.

492
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: Fair amount of racism in play. But either way.

493
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,060
Speaker 3: I would go as far as to say the most

494
00:26:21,140 --> 00:26:22,700
Speaker 3: racist campaign of our lifetimes.

495
00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 2: Look.

496
00:26:23,910 --> 00:26:28,070
Speaker 1: He's the first Muslim senator. And you don't get there

497
00:26:28,170 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: without breaking through some glass ceilings. And that's what's happening here.

498
00:26:31,670 --> 00:26:31,920
Speaker 2: Right.

499
00:26:32,020 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: Is that he you know, it's like I mean, I

500
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: think this he's the first he's like, I mean, I've

501
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,700
Speaker 1: written a lot about Kamala Harris and how being first

502
00:26:43,060 --> 00:26:45,810
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily that's not necessarily a good experience.

503
00:26:45,940 --> 00:26:49,030
Speaker 3: Right. It's a famous thing in culture. You don't really

504
00:26:49,070 --> 00:26:50,490
Speaker 3: want to be first. It's going to be the next

505
00:26:50,530 --> 00:26:54,350
Speaker 3: person first. who popularizes and makes the thing acceptable in culture.

506
00:26:54,830 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 2: Right.

507
00:26:55,170 --> 00:26:59,740
Speaker 1: So a lot of the attacks against him were anti-Muslim, anti-Islam,

508
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,810
Speaker 1: you know, were racism. But now he is the senator.

509
00:27:03,950 --> 00:27:06,750
Speaker 1: So honestly, talk about getting the last laugh.

510
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

511
00:27:08,410 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: And it really did seem like, you know, in general,

512
00:27:11,540 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 3: a lot of the media was asking the questions people

513
00:27:14,060 --> 00:27:16,660
Speaker 3: were not not thinking about in this election.

514
00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

515
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,010
Speaker 1: I mean, I think, yes. I also think like they're

516
00:27:20,050 --> 00:27:23,330
Speaker 1: just there's a lot of groupthink when it comes to

517
00:27:23,710 --> 00:27:27,109
Speaker 1: how to talk to candidates and interviewing them. And I

518
00:27:27,390 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: think what. Abdul did that was really successful was he

519
00:27:31,820 --> 00:27:35,260
Speaker 1: kept bringing it back to money in your pocket, money

520
00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:40,020
Speaker 1: out of politics, Medicare for all. And remember, like... He's

521
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: an MD, PhD, studies public health, ran the public health

522
00:27:47,140 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: for the city of Detroit. So he actually knows what

523
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,980
Speaker 1: he's talking about when he talks about Medicare for all.

524
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,140
Speaker 1: He has theories of the case. He's gone to medical school.

525
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,370
Speaker 1: He knows what being a doctor is about. And it's

526
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:04,350
Speaker 1: funny because there was another doctor in these Senate races,

527
00:28:05,250 --> 00:28:06,710
Speaker 1: a doctor who lost his seat.

528
00:28:07,740 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 2: Dr.

529
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: Roger Marshall.

530
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 3: Yes, yes.

531
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,420
Speaker 1: Who jailed some of his patients.

532
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,780
Speaker 3: But I think one of the other interesting things is

533
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,750
Speaker 3: we saw lots of candidates like Talrico, Troy Jackson, who

534
00:28:17,910 --> 00:28:20,570
Speaker 3: a lot of people didn't understand his communication style. The

535
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:23,390
Speaker 3: media kept doing this, will you denounce X thing?

536
00:28:23,450 --> 00:28:23,730
Speaker 2: Right.

537
00:28:23,859 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 3: And- They all kept bringing it back, and it really

538
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,940
Speaker 3: is the truth that, like, people don't vote on will

539
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,140
Speaker 3: you denounce. And this is one of the silliest things,

540
00:28:32,180 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 3: I think, of that election cycle.

541
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,770
Speaker 1: Well, it's just a cheap question. Will you denounce X, right?

542
00:28:37,810 --> 00:28:41,969
Speaker 1: Because the idea is that you're pushing them. It's a yes-no.

543
00:28:42,030 --> 00:28:45,860
Speaker 1: It's a binary. But the joke was, like— again and

544
00:28:45,910 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: again with Dr. Abdul, they'd say, will you denounce, right,

545
00:28:48,900 --> 00:28:49,700
Speaker 1: like the ads?

546
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:50,500
Speaker 3: Hasan Piker, yeah.

547
00:28:50,540 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: Right.

548
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: Or what about the Cenk Unger ad from the midterms?

549
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 3: We refer to him as the uncle.

550
00:28:59,640 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 2: Right.

551
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: Uncle Cenk, will you denounce Uncle Cenk? And, you know,

552
00:29:04,740 --> 00:29:08,070
Speaker 1: Abdul said, absolutely. But why, you know, the best one

553
00:29:08,110 --> 00:29:11,410
Speaker 1: was when they were saying, will you denounce Hasan? And Dr.

554
00:29:11,470 --> 00:29:14,650
Speaker 1: Abdul said, why are you asking me about his? Like,

555
00:29:15,090 --> 00:29:19,290
Speaker 1: Why is it so important to ask a Muslim to

556
00:29:19,350 --> 00:29:22,830
Speaker 1: denounce a Muslim? You know, it just, and it reminded

557
00:29:22,890 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: me of my grandfather. And when he, you know, one

558
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,420
Speaker 1: of the ways in which they targeted some of the

559
00:29:30,460 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: civil rights activists during communism was making them denounce.

560
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,340
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the great extremists, like the Black Panthers, things

561
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:39,300
Speaker 3: like that constantly.

562
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:39,540
Speaker 2: Right.

563
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,900
Speaker 1: And denounce Paul Robeson. Paul Robeson was the most famous.

564
00:29:44,020 --> 00:29:46,050
Speaker 1: I was who I was looking for. Paul Robeson was

565
00:29:46,110 --> 00:29:48,670
Speaker 1: one of the most famous black actors of his day.

566
00:29:48,810 --> 00:29:53,410
Speaker 1: And they made civil rights people denounce Paul Robeson as

567
00:29:53,470 --> 00:29:56,709
Speaker 1: a way to try and splinter people. the coalition. And

568
00:29:56,770 --> 00:29:59,470
Speaker 1: so I do think like this is an old trick

569
00:29:59,630 --> 00:30:02,740
Speaker 1: and it's really something we need to get away from

570
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: in the media.

571
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,900
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's lazy. OK, we have to talk about elections

572
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,940
Speaker 3: having consequences, though. Mike Johnson has bowed out of leadership

573
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 3: after this crushing defeat. See, I wouldn't want to be.

574
00:30:14,830 --> 00:30:19,010
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, again, Mike Johnson only had the job

575
00:30:19,070 --> 00:30:23,540
Speaker 1: because Donald Trump liked him. And this was the whole

576
00:30:23,620 --> 00:30:27,940
Speaker 1: problem that Republicans have had this entire time. It was

577
00:30:28,060 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 1: a Trump election for Trump, by Trump, for Trump's people.

578
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,170
Speaker 1: And even like when you've heard when you hear Trump

579
00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: talking to Fox News now. He keeps saying, like, well,

580
00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:41,740
Speaker 1: I didn't like, you know, a great example was he

581
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,340
Speaker 1: was talking about how he, I'm sorry, I find this

582
00:30:45,380 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: very funny. He was talking about how much he didn't

583
00:30:47,180 --> 00:30:50,260
Speaker 1: like John Cornyn and how much he did like Ken Paxton.

584
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,980
Speaker 1: And the interviewers kept trying to get him to say

585
00:30:55,070 --> 00:30:58,709
Speaker 1: something to the effect of, like, you know, Ken Paxton

586
00:30:58,730 --> 00:31:01,130
Speaker 1: was a terrible politician. He wouldn't say it because he

587
00:31:01,170 --> 00:31:03,450
Speaker 1: was like, well, John Cornyn was never nice to me.

588
00:31:04,170 --> 00:31:07,890
Speaker 1: And like this is the problem with an entire Republican

589
00:31:07,930 --> 00:31:12,310
Speaker 1: Party that revolves around one person is that like Mike

590
00:31:12,330 --> 00:31:15,650
Speaker 1: Johnson was not the most talented speaker. The most talented speaker,

591
00:31:16,010 --> 00:31:18,910
Speaker 1: you know, was someone who, you know, was Steve Scalise

592
00:31:18,970 --> 00:31:23,060
Speaker 1: or someone who Trump found insufficiently loyal. Mike Johnson was

593
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:27,810
Speaker 1: just the most sycophantic. And so. his short tenure will

594
00:31:27,850 --> 00:31:31,310
Speaker 1: be remembered as just a complete fucking disaster. And he

595
00:31:31,350 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: was a person who, anytime there was a problem, he

596
00:31:34,100 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: just sent everyone home, which is incredible.

597
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,460
Speaker 3: Yep. Okay, we have to talk about another person who's

598
00:31:40,540 --> 00:31:43,660
Speaker 3: going to see some consequences. There is many, many reports

599
00:31:43,700 --> 00:31:46,990
Speaker 3: today that Trump is circling the wagons about what to

600
00:31:47,010 --> 00:31:50,010
Speaker 3: do with Whiskey Pete. Does he want to face impeachment?

601
00:31:50,050 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 3: Does he want Marsha Blackburn's Or do they want to

602
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,979
Speaker 3: wait for it to come? My bet, Molly, I know

603
00:31:56,020 --> 00:31:58,540
Speaker 3: we're not a calcium polymarket people, but if we were,

604
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,020
Speaker 3: my bet is he's gone before January 4th.

605
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: Whiskey Pete. Whiskey Pete. My man, Whiskey Pete. Yeah, I

606
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:09,700
Speaker 1: think he's going to get fired. Here's the thing about

607
00:32:09,740 --> 00:32:12,140
Speaker 1: Whiskey Pete. He's either going to get fired or he's

608
00:32:12,180 --> 00:32:14,780
Speaker 1: going to get impeached in the lame duck because he's

609
00:32:15,450 --> 00:32:18,830
Speaker 1: Donald Trump has a little problem, which is that all

610
00:32:18,870 --> 00:32:22,490
Speaker 1: of the people who have lost their seats because of

611
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:28,060
Speaker 1: Donald Trump are now still in Congress during the lame duck.

612
00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:35,380
Speaker 1: So that means John Cornyn. That means... Thomas Massey. That means,

613
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: you know, all those people. And they would fucking love

614
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: to do an impeachment during the lame duck. So I

615
00:32:42,260 --> 00:32:48,870
Speaker 1: think either Trump fires Pete Hegseth or Whiskey Pete gets

616
00:32:48,940 --> 00:32:52,250
Speaker 1: impeached and they start a trial. I don't think they

617
00:32:52,370 --> 00:32:54,270
Speaker 1: end up. I think at some point Donald Trump will

618
00:32:54,290 --> 00:32:56,970
Speaker 1: be like, this is just a waste of time. Now, again,

619
00:32:57,030 --> 00:33:00,890
Speaker 1: there is this there has been this entire time, this

620
00:33:00,990 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: story that maybe Hegseth was hoping that Marsha Blackburn would

621
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:11,350
Speaker 1: give him her Senate seat. I don't know.

622
00:33:11,370 --> 00:33:11,469
Speaker 2: Maybe.

623
00:33:11,770 --> 00:33:12,290
Speaker 1: Maybe.

624
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,060
Speaker 3: Stranger things have happened.

625
00:33:15,420 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: I like that if Hegseth goes, CBS says that Florida

626
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis could be a possible replacement and he could

627
00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:26,850
Speaker 1: get a speedy confirmation by the lame duck Republican Senate. FYI,

628
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:29,970
Speaker 1: I'm not I don't there are a lot of senators

629
00:33:30,050 --> 00:33:34,170
Speaker 1: in that Senate who are like in the in the

630
00:33:34,270 --> 00:33:35,490
Speaker 1: YOLO caucus.

631
00:33:35,590 --> 00:33:35,870
Speaker 2: Right.

632
00:33:35,930 --> 00:33:39,570
Speaker 1: They you only live once who have been so betrayed

633
00:33:39,610 --> 00:33:40,310
Speaker 1: by Donald Trump.

634
00:33:40,820 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 2: Let's.

635
00:33:41,580 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: We'll see.

636
00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:46,060
Speaker 3: OK, I see. I have a pushback on the possibility

637
00:33:46,140 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 3: of this. Did you listen to the way DeSantis was

638
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:48,380
Speaker 3: talking today?

639
00:33:48,780 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: No, I haven't heard DeSantis.

640
00:33:50,580 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 3: He's basically clowning Trump to run in the future. And

641
00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 3: I don't think Trump's appointing a non-sicophant.

642
00:33:56,140 --> 00:33:59,180
Speaker 1: I mean, anything could happen. I don't see a world

643
00:33:59,220 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: where Donald Trump wants to elevate around DeSantis either. Exactly.

644
00:34:04,290 --> 00:34:04,670
Speaker 2: I don't know.

645
00:34:04,730 --> 00:34:07,370
Speaker 1: Let's see what happens. But I think this is going

646
00:34:07,390 --> 00:34:10,169
Speaker 1: to be more trouble for everyone than we think. Anne

647
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:13,410
Speaker 1: Applebaum is a writer at The Atlantic and the author

648
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:20,020
Speaker 1: of Autocracy, Inc., The Dictators Who Want to Run the World. Welcome, welcome,

649
00:34:20,140 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: Anne Applebaum.

650
00:34:21,219 --> 00:34:22,020
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me back.

651
00:34:22,450 --> 00:34:24,610
Speaker 1: Um, last time it was like, we have to talk

652
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: about the repudiation of Trumpism and its authoritarianism. And you

653
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: were like, let's see how it goes. So he was rebuked, rebutted.

654
00:34:35,620 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: I mean, it happened, right?

655
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 4: It happened. And I think that was a part of

656
00:34:39,410 --> 00:34:42,450
Speaker 4: the story. You know, you know, why did he it

657
00:34:42,510 --> 00:34:45,350
Speaker 4: wasn't just the war in Iran. It wasn't just prices.

658
00:34:45,489 --> 00:34:49,290
Speaker 4: It was the ballroom. People understood that that was weird

659
00:34:49,350 --> 00:34:53,110
Speaker 4: and personal focus. They understood that He was taking a

660
00:34:53,150 --> 00:34:57,710
Speaker 4: hammer to American institutions. The message about corruption got through.

661
00:34:57,730 --> 00:35:01,029
Speaker 4: The message about him behaving like a monarch. I mean,

662
00:35:01,370 --> 00:35:06,130
Speaker 4: you know, at some level, his very strange and autocratic

663
00:35:06,170 --> 00:35:08,790
Speaker 4: behavior for the last 18 months, I think it hit people.

664
00:35:08,830 --> 00:35:11,410
Speaker 4: And I think you can absolutely say this election was

665
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:12,330
Speaker 4: a repudiation of that.

666
00:35:13,130 --> 00:35:16,860
Speaker 1: So the question now is, like, if we look at

667
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,100
Speaker 1: the sort of places where we've seen this in Europe,

668
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 1: where we've seen, I mean, I think, Hungary is a

669
00:35:23,340 --> 00:35:25,620
Speaker 1: good example, right?

670
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,969
Speaker 4: So Hungary is a country where they just had a

671
00:35:28,010 --> 00:35:30,350
Speaker 4: few months ago an election exactly like this, like a

672
00:35:30,430 --> 00:35:35,569
Speaker 4: huge wave election. Difference being that their authoritarian politician had

673
00:35:35,590 --> 00:35:39,310
Speaker 4: been in charge for 16 years. So it's a bigger project.

674
00:35:39,590 --> 00:35:41,489
Speaker 4: I mean, I think the lesson from there and the

675
00:35:41,530 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 4: lesson from other places, Poland, where they also had an

676
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 4: election that got rid of a would-be autocratic government, The

677
00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 4: lesson is that you have to move really fast and

678
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 4: you have to be able to walk and chew gum

679
00:35:55,540 --> 00:35:58,620
Speaker 4: at the same time. So, you know, the Democrats will

680
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,890
Speaker 4: have a limited window of honeymoon, you know, when people

681
00:36:02,950 --> 00:36:04,810
Speaker 4: want them to do things and they want them to

682
00:36:04,850 --> 00:36:07,930
Speaker 4: do them quickly and they will, you know, forgive them

683
00:36:07,969 --> 00:36:11,890
Speaker 4: cutting corners. And they will also, there's also going to

684
00:36:11,930 --> 00:36:15,410
Speaker 4: be a high expectation of change. And so what they're

685
00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:16,629
Speaker 4: going to have to be able to do is both

686
00:36:17,330 --> 00:36:20,310
Speaker 4: make real changes, so show people that they can do stuff,

687
00:36:20,690 --> 00:36:23,549
Speaker 4: whether it's stopping the tariffs so that people aren't paying

688
00:36:23,570 --> 00:36:27,819
Speaker 4: such high prices, whether it's fixing health care, whatever is

689
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,860
Speaker 4: the piece of it they choose to go for. And

690
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 4: at the same time, they're going to have to do

691
00:36:31,739 --> 00:36:35,140
Speaker 4: some accountability, whether it's going to be, I don't know,

692
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,700
Speaker 4: special commission investigations. They're going to pick a few of

693
00:36:40,420 --> 00:36:45,969
Speaker 4: the most egregious, you know, corrupt activities and investigate those

694
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,070
Speaker 4: just to show people they can't get away with it.

695
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 4: But it's a big, overwhelming project. They'll need a roadmap.

696
00:36:54,739 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 4: As I said, they'll have to move fast. And of course,

697
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,690
Speaker 4: they will. Trump is shell-shocked today, but who knows what

698
00:37:00,989 --> 00:37:03,790
Speaker 4: next week he might revive himself and decide he wants

699
00:37:03,810 --> 00:37:08,170
Speaker 4: to veto everything. So they're also dealing with completely unpredictable presidents.

700
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:08,899
Speaker 2: Right.

701
00:37:09,020 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: And so I think that's really important, though. The first

702
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,700
Speaker 1: thing you said about moving fast. Why is it so

703
00:37:16,860 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: important that Democrats move fast?

704
00:37:19,620 --> 00:37:22,660
Speaker 4: Because they have to take advantage of this moment when

705
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:25,630
Speaker 4: it's clear that they have real legitimacy. So there was

706
00:37:25,650 --> 00:37:30,069
Speaker 4: a huge electoral swing in their favor. You know, they

707
00:37:30,210 --> 00:37:33,070
Speaker 4: they they've just been given power. They've been given an

708
00:37:33,950 --> 00:37:37,090
Speaker 4: endorsement by the public. And they need to use it

709
00:37:37,250 --> 00:37:40,310
Speaker 4: and show they can do something with that quickly. Because

710
00:37:40,370 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 4: the longer time they take, the more people will say,

711
00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:46,580
Speaker 4: you know, well, we elected and they didn't do anything.

712
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 4: The more the other side will resist and find ways

713
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,140
Speaker 4: of blocking them. I mean, they need to take advantage

714
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 4: of this psychological moment and move.

715
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:56,859
Speaker 2: Yes.

716
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:57,620
Speaker 4: I think it's really important.

717
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,500
Speaker 1: And one of the things we see already is some

718
00:38:01,940 --> 00:38:06,030
Speaker 1: of the establishment sort of hemming and hawing and saying, well,

719
00:38:06,050 --> 00:38:09,330
Speaker 1: we're here to do prices and not fight, fight. Explain

720
00:38:09,390 --> 00:38:11,530
Speaker 1: why accountability is so important.

721
00:38:11,989 --> 00:38:14,710
Speaker 4: Because they're going to need to explain to the American

722
00:38:14,770 --> 00:38:18,589
Speaker 4: public what happened. They're going to need to make adjustments

723
00:38:18,610 --> 00:38:20,610
Speaker 4: to the legal system if that's what it takes to

724
00:38:20,650 --> 00:38:23,950
Speaker 4: make sure it doesn't happen again. And they're going to

725
00:38:24,010 --> 00:38:27,879
Speaker 4: need to, as I said, hold some people accountable or

726
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,779
Speaker 4: we will have a perpetual problem in our country of

727
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,460
Speaker 4: people coming to office and assuming it's a license to steal.

728
00:38:36,580 --> 00:38:39,110
Speaker 4: And we have to prevent that. But I think it's

729
00:38:39,130 --> 00:38:42,469
Speaker 4: also important to, you know, people need to be educated.

730
00:38:42,610 --> 00:38:46,390
Speaker 4: And the process of investigation is a way of educating them.

731
00:38:46,430 --> 00:38:49,450
Speaker 4: And I mean educated in what happened, in telling the

732
00:38:49,489 --> 00:38:52,820
Speaker 4: real story of the last 18 months. Because pretty fast,

733
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,500
Speaker 4: I mean, remember how fast the Republicans came up with

734
00:38:55,540 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 4: a counter-narrative about January the 6th? You know, where they

735
00:38:57,700 --> 00:39:00,140
Speaker 4: were all innocent, nothing really happened, and so on. You're

736
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,140
Speaker 4: going to get the same thing. You know, Trump didn't

737
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 4: do anything wrong. He was robbed. He made a couple

738
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:06,620
Speaker 4: small mistakes.

739
00:39:06,660 --> 00:39:07,100
Speaker 2: You know, da-da-da.

740
00:39:07,630 --> 00:39:10,210
Speaker 4: Nothing really serious happened. No, the Democrats are going to

741
00:39:10,230 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 4: have to explain to people how serious the assault on

742
00:39:13,530 --> 00:39:16,980
Speaker 4: our institutions was, how much criminality there was, how many

743
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 4: conflicts of interest there were, and they're going to have

744
00:39:18,860 --> 00:39:24,610
Speaker 4: to do it fast before the MAGA movement gets itself

745
00:39:24,730 --> 00:39:26,710
Speaker 4: organized again to tell a totally different story.

746
00:39:27,430 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: Right. And I think that is a really, really such

747
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,660
Speaker 1: an important point is that they're going to have to

748
00:39:33,739 --> 00:39:37,109
Speaker 1: move fast and they're going to have to own the narrative.

749
00:39:37,630 --> 00:39:41,410
Speaker 1: And the sort of model, I think, is Watergate.

750
00:39:42,330 --> 00:39:46,230
Speaker 4: Watergate is a good model because after Watergate, there was

751
00:39:46,290 --> 00:39:50,310
Speaker 4: actually a bipartisan understanding that the system itself needs changes,

752
00:39:50,530 --> 00:39:52,890
Speaker 4: you know, that the presidency needs to be modified, that

753
00:39:52,910 --> 00:39:56,350
Speaker 4: we need rules. And that's the same here. You know,

754
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:59,029
Speaker 4: there are deep problems with our political system. It's not

755
00:39:59,070 --> 00:40:01,650
Speaker 4: as if we can go back to some happy, sunny

756
00:40:01,710 --> 00:40:04,690
Speaker 4: time when everything was great and, you know, pick up

757
00:40:04,730 --> 00:40:07,529
Speaker 4: as if nothing happened. You know, the role of money

758
00:40:07,570 --> 00:40:12,779
Speaker 4: in politics is grotesque. the way in which businesses close

759
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,620
Speaker 4: to the Trump administration were able to use and manipulate U.S.

760
00:40:15,660 --> 00:40:18,700
Speaker 4: government policy. I mean, literally, Elon Musk, when he was

761
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:24,270
Speaker 4: running the Doge project, you know, taking over and influencing

762
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:29,250
Speaker 4: agencies that regulate his companies. You know, there's a level of,

763
00:40:30,390 --> 00:40:32,670
Speaker 4: you know, of corruption, I mean, real corruption that we've

764
00:40:32,690 --> 00:40:35,469
Speaker 4: allowed to come into the system. And that has to

765
00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:36,110
Speaker 4: be stopped.

766
00:40:36,390 --> 00:40:38,090
Speaker 1: One of the things we saw with Trump and Trumpism

767
00:40:38,110 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 1: was that it was There were things that were norms,

768
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,859
Speaker 1: but not necessarily illegal, like tearing down the East Wing. And,

769
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,060
Speaker 1: you know, there was no law that you can't tear

770
00:40:48,100 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: down the East Wing. It's just that it never occurred

771
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,460
Speaker 1: to anyone that it would happen. And so I think

772
00:40:53,540 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: that we're going to need this sort of law, the laws,

773
00:40:56,980 --> 00:40:59,070
Speaker 1: the normal laws, right?

774
00:40:59,830 --> 00:41:02,509
Speaker 4: Well, we're going to need laws, you know, that delineate

775
00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:05,989
Speaker 4: what powers people in the White House have or people

776
00:41:06,010 --> 00:41:08,180
Speaker 4: who work for the White House have. We're going to

777
00:41:08,219 --> 00:41:10,740
Speaker 4: have to have much stricter laws about conflict of interest.

778
00:41:10,780 --> 00:41:13,460
Speaker 4: You know, we're going to have to make sure that,

779
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,469
Speaker 4: you know, private businessmen don't have access to government data,

780
00:41:17,790 --> 00:41:20,390
Speaker 4: you know, as Musk did as well. I mean, things

781
00:41:20,410 --> 00:41:22,610
Speaker 4: that we didn't think we needed to write into the

782
00:41:22,670 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 4: law look looks like they need to be written into

783
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,210
Speaker 4: the law. And we also need to think, as I said,

784
00:41:28,290 --> 00:41:32,009
Speaker 4: I would have a deeper thought about money in politics.

785
00:41:33,070 --> 00:41:36,450
Speaker 4: Why is someone like Musk able to spend $ 500 million

786
00:41:36,510 --> 00:41:38,450
Speaker 4: on an election campaign? I mean, it's great news to

787
00:41:38,489 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 4: learn that it didn't win Texas for him. But the

788
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,500
Speaker 4: fact that people who have that kind of wealth are

789
00:41:44,540 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 4: allowed to have that much power and influence. You know,

790
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 4: we need to revisit Citizens United, the Supreme Court decision

791
00:41:50,660 --> 00:41:53,390
Speaker 4: that said that political spending is free speech. And so

792
00:41:53,590 --> 00:41:56,100
Speaker 4: basically anybody can do what they want. We need to

793
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 4: revisit that. We might need congressional legislation to do it

794
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,020
Speaker 4: because we're going to need to fight back against that

795
00:42:02,100 --> 00:42:06,860
Speaker 4: court decision. We need to return politics more to ordinary people.

796
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:11,180
Speaker 4: I mean, the more grassroots politics is, the more it's

797
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 4: rooted in real communities and real activists, the better it is.

798
00:42:14,260 --> 00:42:17,620
Speaker 4: And the more it's about collecting money. I mean, just

799
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 4: there is no other democracy. There is no European democracy

800
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 4: I can think of. Where money plays this kind of

801
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 4: role in politics, where politicians spend half their time raising money.

802
00:42:28,739 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 4: They have to go to events and talk to rich

803
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,020
Speaker 4: people 50% of their time. That's not true anywhere else.

804
00:42:34,060 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 4: That's not normal. It's not like something we should accept

805
00:42:37,300 --> 00:42:40,830
Speaker 4: as part of our political system. We can legislate out

806
00:42:40,870 --> 00:42:42,930
Speaker 4: of it. We can make rules that make it impossible.

807
00:42:43,570 --> 00:42:45,210
Speaker 4: And I think it's time to start doing that.

808
00:42:45,790 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because, like, if you look at Europe, Europe,

809
00:42:49,340 --> 00:42:51,919
Speaker 1: I mean, this is like my pet peeve, my little

810
00:42:51,980 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: pet cause, but Europe has real regulation in a way

811
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,720
Speaker 1: that America does not. And you have to wonder when

812
00:43:00,820 --> 00:43:06,060
Speaker 1: rich people spend so much time just, you know, sucking

813
00:43:06,300 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 1: up to corporations, sucking up to PACs. I mean, like,

814
00:43:10,660 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 1: and that causes a real problem when it comes to legislating.

815
00:43:15,070 --> 00:43:18,810
Speaker 4: No, because we can't regulate our tech companies because our

816
00:43:18,850 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 4: tech companies are too powerful. AI is screaming for regulation. Obviously,

817
00:43:25,180 --> 00:43:30,060
Speaker 4: it needs to be regulated. The people who invented it

818
00:43:30,460 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 4: are telling us it needs to be regulated. But we

819
00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:35,950
Speaker 4: are unable to do it because too many of our

820
00:43:36,010 --> 00:43:40,030
Speaker 4: politicians are financially dependent on those companies or are frightened

821
00:43:40,050 --> 00:43:42,750
Speaker 4: of those companies because they control too much of the

822
00:43:42,810 --> 00:43:43,690
Speaker 4: information network.

823
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,580
Speaker 1: Or they have Schumer's daughter working for them. Go on.

824
00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:52,380
Speaker 4: Or the kids are working for them or they're friendly

825
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 4: with the spouse. But it's not even about friendships. It's

826
00:43:55,820 --> 00:43:56,590
Speaker 4: just about money.

827
00:43:56,650 --> 00:43:58,030
Speaker 2: I mean, if you.

828
00:43:57,910 --> 00:44:01,969
Speaker 4: Need $ 100 million to run a political campaign, then you

829
00:44:02,030 --> 00:44:04,069
Speaker 4: have to have friends like that. Who else is going

830
00:44:04,090 --> 00:44:06,730
Speaker 4: to give you $ 100 million? And as I said, in

831
00:44:06,810 --> 00:44:10,110
Speaker 4: most countries, you don't need $ 100 million. So as you know,

832
00:44:10,150 --> 00:44:12,550
Speaker 4: I'm married to a politician in Poland. He ran a

833
00:44:12,590 --> 00:44:15,299
Speaker 4: campaign for the European Parliament a few years ago where

834
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,660
Speaker 4: there was an upper spending limit of 30,000 euros, which

835
00:44:18,700 --> 00:44:21,779
Speaker 4: is about, I don't know, $ 35, 000. And he tells this

836
00:44:21,820 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 4: to people in the United States and they say, ha, ha, ha, ha.

837
00:44:24,780 --> 00:44:28,129
Speaker 4: And he's like, no, no, that was the limit. You

838
00:44:28,330 --> 00:44:30,630
Speaker 4: couldn't spend any more than that. And that's it. And

839
00:44:30,670 --> 00:44:33,230
Speaker 4: you bought some posters. You gave out some leaflets. You

840
00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:36,819
Speaker 4: did a bit of Facebook advertising, whatever. But you spent $ 30, 000. And,

841
00:44:37,420 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 4: you know, that's it. And you didn't spend $ 100 million.

842
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,540
Speaker 4: And that's how you got elected. And that's what everyone

843
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 4: is spending. So it's fair.

844
00:44:45,020 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: And I think that. We see this as the future,

845
00:44:48,780 --> 00:44:51,020
Speaker 1: and I think it has— I mean, the spending is a

846
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: big— and a lot of Democrats ran on— I mean, we had Dr.

847
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: Abdul El-Sayed, money out of politics, money in your pocket.

848
00:44:57,500 --> 00:45:01,110
Speaker 1: I mean, but I think that's right. So speed, accountability,

849
00:45:01,610 --> 00:45:05,989
Speaker 1: and then the changes necessary to prevent this from happening again.

850
00:45:06,010 --> 00:45:09,390
Speaker 4: Yeah, the change— and we need to begin thinking differently. bigger

851
00:45:09,550 --> 00:45:12,290
Speaker 4: about what's wrong. How did we get here? You know,

852
00:45:12,330 --> 00:45:16,170
Speaker 4: how did we get this venal administration full of people

853
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:18,910
Speaker 4: trying to use the U.S. government to make themselves rich?

854
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 4: How do we stop that? And we need to think about.

855
00:45:21,820 --> 00:45:22,820
Speaker 1: What are the levers?

856
00:45:22,900 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 4: Why is that being made possible? And part of the

857
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 4: answer is getting money out of politics. Part of the

858
00:45:28,620 --> 00:45:32,779
Speaker 4: answer is regulating these enormous companies which have far too

859
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:36,210
Speaker 4: much power. Um, and, and part of it is beginning

860
00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:39,009
Speaker 4: to think about, you know, what's actually good for me.

861
00:45:39,050 --> 00:45:42,069
Speaker 4: I mean, we've, we've, we've come to understand, I think,

862
00:45:42,170 --> 00:45:45,290
Speaker 4: for example, that social media is bad for kids. I mean,

863
00:45:45,350 --> 00:45:48,089
Speaker 4: everybody understands at some level that it's not good for

864
00:45:48,110 --> 00:45:50,940
Speaker 4: teenage girls to be scrolling all day. And we sort

865
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:52,940
Speaker 4: of come to that realization, but we haven't taken the

866
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:54,990
Speaker 4: next step to think, okay, what do we do about it?

867
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 4: How do we stop that? How do we prevent our

868
00:45:57,580 --> 00:46:01,690
Speaker 4: kids from watching pornography all day? Or, teenage daughters from

869
00:46:01,710 --> 00:46:05,149
Speaker 4: becoming obsessed with hair and makeup because of watching stuff

870
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:09,300
Speaker 4: on Instagram. And we need to take the next step

871
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:14,049
Speaker 4: in that direction and think about how to limit you know,

872
00:46:14,110 --> 00:46:16,090
Speaker 4: how to put limits on the companies or limits on

873
00:46:16,250 --> 00:46:18,790
Speaker 4: access or how to talk to the school system about it.

874
00:46:18,790 --> 00:46:20,430
Speaker 4: I mean, there may be different, there may be multiple

875
00:46:20,469 --> 00:46:21,109
Speaker 4: different answers.

876
00:46:21,670 --> 00:46:23,649
Speaker 1: And a lot of this can be solved by just

877
00:46:23,690 --> 00:46:28,530
Speaker 1: having culpability, right? Like if Section 230 went away, then

878
00:46:28,590 --> 00:46:32,879
Speaker 1: tech companies would be responsible for the content they publish.

879
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 2: Make them responsible.

880
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,319
Speaker 4: Also, there's a really, make them transparent, right? How come

881
00:46:38,660 --> 00:46:42,750
Speaker 4: we don't know how the algorithms work? When we see

882
00:46:42,830 --> 00:46:48,379
Speaker 4: stuff in our feed, whichever social media you're on, there

883
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 4: is a math formula that's been written by somebody in

884
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,620
Speaker 4: Silicon Valley that determines what it is that we see.

885
00:46:53,660 --> 00:46:55,989
Speaker 4: And as we all have come to understand, it's personalized

886
00:46:56,010 --> 00:46:59,540
Speaker 4: to us. And sometimes it's designed to keep us online

887
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 4: by making us really angry. And sometimes it's designed to

888
00:47:01,940 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 4: sell us things that the tech companies want to sell us.

889
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,339
Speaker 4: But we need a lot more transparency about that. Why

890
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:14,419
Speaker 4: should these things be obscure and opaque? We should know

891
00:47:14,500 --> 00:47:17,310
Speaker 4: how it works. We should be able to know what

892
00:47:17,350 --> 00:47:20,049
Speaker 4: it is that people are looking at on TikTok instead

893
00:47:20,090 --> 00:47:24,300
Speaker 4: of discovering down the road that you know, the political

894
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,410
Speaker 4: moods are changing because of a Chinese influence operation on

895
00:47:27,450 --> 00:47:29,830
Speaker 4: TikTok that no one can see. You know, we need

896
00:47:29,850 --> 00:47:31,250
Speaker 4: to be able to see this stuff. I mean, when

897
00:47:31,310 --> 00:47:37,870
Speaker 4: we were dependent on broadcasts And print media, there were

898
00:47:38,090 --> 00:47:40,989
Speaker 4: lots of rules about transparency. There were companies. We knew

899
00:47:41,010 --> 00:47:44,419
Speaker 4: who owned them. We knew where their advertising came from.

900
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:46,420
Speaker 4: You know, we could see it. And we need to

901
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 4: return to that. That's also important, just transparency.

902
00:47:49,900 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: I want to just push a little further on this

903
00:47:53,410 --> 00:47:56,810
Speaker 1: and talk about this sort of larger America in the

904
00:47:56,870 --> 00:48:02,469
Speaker 1: world situation now. Because... We were, as Donald Trump, I mean,

905
00:48:02,489 --> 00:48:05,290
Speaker 1: it's funny watching Donald Trump on Fox News talking about

906
00:48:05,330 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: how we're respected again. We were certainly feared, right? Like Canada, Greenland.

907
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,819
Speaker 1: I mean, Donald Trump did a lot of damage in

908
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 1: two years.

909
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 4: But we're feared the way you're afraid of a crazy person.

910
00:48:20,300 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 4: You know, you just don't know what they'll do next.

911
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:26,359
Speaker 4: We're not feared because of our amazing power and our

912
00:48:26,610 --> 00:48:29,700
Speaker 4: ability to achieve things. You know, we're- Oh, yeah. We're

913
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,980
Speaker 4: fueled because we might do something nutty at any moment.

914
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:33,180
Speaker 2: Yes. No, no.

915
00:48:33,340 --> 00:48:35,660
Speaker 1: For sure. The rest of the world has the same

916
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,430
Speaker 1: relationship that we've always had with him, right? Which is

917
00:48:38,489 --> 00:48:43,750
Speaker 1: that he's completely unreliable and capricious and totally crazy. So

918
00:48:43,790 --> 00:48:46,850
Speaker 1: the rest of us are like, you know, living above

919
00:48:47,090 --> 00:48:49,850
Speaker 1: a meth lab and we don't know what's going to happen.

920
00:48:49,930 --> 00:48:51,710
Speaker 1: And the world feels that way too. So now the

921
00:48:51,730 --> 00:48:55,140
Speaker 1: question is, and you are, you, you know, are back

922
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,900
Speaker 1: and forth to Europe. You live part-time there. What do

923
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: you think? They clearly have seen what's happened here, that

924
00:49:01,660 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: there's been a repudiation of Trumpism. You know, this was

925
00:49:05,260 --> 00:49:07,900
Speaker 1: not a close election. This was a, you know, a

926
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:13,190
Speaker 1: once in a generation unicorn election, a tsunami. So so

927
00:49:13,489 --> 00:49:15,850
Speaker 1: do you think that changes are standing in the world?

928
00:49:16,570 --> 00:49:19,210
Speaker 1: And again, we're still going to be a divided government

929
00:49:19,250 --> 00:49:19,969
Speaker 1: for the next two years.

930
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 4: I think people are they're cautious. They understand that Trump

931
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,060
Speaker 4: is still in charge, that he still has, you know,

932
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 4: levers of foreign policy still mostly belong to him. Our

933
00:49:31,260 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 4: system has become so skewed to the executive that he

934
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,650
Speaker 4: has enormous powers over the army and the security services

935
00:49:37,710 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 4: and intelligence and so on. So I don't think anybody's

936
00:49:40,100 --> 00:49:42,819
Speaker 4: in any illusions that something's going to change overnight. But

937
00:49:42,860 --> 00:49:47,430
Speaker 4: this does change the calculus. So first of all, the

938
00:49:47,510 --> 00:49:50,850
Speaker 4: MAGA movement, which has an international face, so it has

939
00:49:50,910 --> 00:49:53,610
Speaker 4: deep connections to the European far right, to the Russians.

940
00:49:54,650 --> 00:49:56,870
Speaker 4: So it's been shown not to be some kind of

941
00:49:57,110 --> 00:50:02,250
Speaker 4: omnipotent force that everybody sooner or later will defeat everyone.

942
00:50:02,310 --> 00:50:05,310
Speaker 4: So it can be defeated and it can lose. And

943
00:50:05,430 --> 00:50:06,270
Speaker 4: that's really important.

944
00:50:06,770 --> 00:50:07,730
Speaker 1: And I think also, you.

945
00:50:07,950 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 4: Know, that it's put, you know, central reminding everybody that

946
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,580
Speaker 4: Trump will not be here forever, that his movement and

947
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:20,410
Speaker 4: his presidency are coming to an end. And therefore, you know,

948
00:50:20,730 --> 00:50:23,469
Speaker 4: deference that was paid to him two years ago or,

949
00:50:23,469 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 4: you know, attempts to you know, wiggle your way into

950
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 4: his good favors, that some people tried to do that

951
00:50:30,180 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 4: for a while. I don't think that's going to happen anymore.

952
00:50:32,739 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 4: And the feeling instead is just, you know, we need

953
00:50:35,300 --> 00:50:37,370
Speaker 4: to get through this. We need to make friends. We

954
00:50:37,390 --> 00:50:40,529
Speaker 4: need to find our new friends in Congress. We need

955
00:50:40,550 --> 00:50:42,410
Speaker 4: to work with people in America who want to work

956
00:50:42,430 --> 00:50:44,730
Speaker 4: with us. That will include people in the military and

957
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:48,950
Speaker 4: people in intelligence and so on. And we need to,

958
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 4: and we'll find a way. I mean, I think it's

959
00:50:50,940 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 4: given a lot of Europeans, and by the way, I

960
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 4: should say like center-right Europeans as well as center-left Europeans,

961
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,140
Speaker 4: It's given a lot of them the sense that, oh, okay,

962
00:50:58,180 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 4: so we're still going to have friends in America after this.

963
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,900
Speaker 4: There'll be people who see the world the same way

964
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:10,820
Speaker 4: that we do. And I think that it'll give people

965
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,860
Speaker 4: some sense that it's worth waiting a little bit more

966
00:51:13,980 --> 00:51:17,140
Speaker 4: to see if the United States will return to some

967
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 4: semblance of responsibility.

968
00:51:19,140 --> 00:51:23,939
Speaker 1: So now here's my question, which is we have this moment, right,

969
00:51:24,020 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 1: where we have sort of maybe we have inroads to

970
00:51:29,060 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: win back the rest of the world possibly. Ukrainians have

971
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 1: been— these people have been through it, right? They have been

972
00:51:37,460 --> 00:51:40,420
Speaker 1: through it with Donald Trump. And, like, there's this larger

973
00:51:40,460 --> 00:51:42,939
Speaker 1: question of how much Donald Trump just does the bidding

974
00:51:42,980 --> 00:51:46,460
Speaker 1: of Vladimir Putin, whether or not that's because he just

975
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: loves Putin and wants to do nice stuff for him.

976
00:51:49,100 --> 00:51:52,890
Speaker 1: Who even knows why? But, like, you would be hard-pressed

977
00:51:52,930 --> 00:51:55,770
Speaker 1: to find an American president doing more that would make

978
00:51:55,830 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin happy than what Donald Trump has done. How

979
00:52:01,180 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 1: are the Ukrainians and how can they survive these next

980
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: two years? And I mean, and just the Russian influence

981
00:52:10,060 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 1: of it all.

982
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,540
Speaker 4: They will, you know, they will approach their friends in

983
00:52:15,580 --> 00:52:19,899
Speaker 4: Congress and they will talk to them. And now they

984
00:52:19,940 --> 00:52:21,610
Speaker 4: have more of them to talk to. I mean, I

985
00:52:21,620 --> 00:52:24,339
Speaker 4: think that's the That's one of the big advantages of this.

986
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 4: You know, it's also given, you know, Trump is also,

987
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 4: I mean, it's, you know, how all these things worries

988
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:34,029
Speaker 4: about perception. I mean, Trump is also weakened now as

989
00:52:34,390 --> 00:52:38,529
Speaker 4: a negotiator, for example, in Ukraine. I mean, you know,

990
00:52:38,590 --> 00:52:41,589
Speaker 4: all these business deals that he and Steve Witkoff and

991
00:52:41,670 --> 00:52:44,830
Speaker 4: Jared Kushner have been negotiating with the Russians. That all

992
00:52:44,890 --> 00:52:46,890
Speaker 4: now looks a bit more dicey. It sort of reminded

993
00:52:46,930 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 4: everybody it might all be over in two years. You know,

994
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 4: maybe you don't want to put all your eggs in

995
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:56,500
Speaker 4: that basket. You know, it's hard for me to say, well,

996
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,380
Speaker 4: you know, I don't want to sound too naive, you know,

997
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,259
Speaker 4: that this will help end the war. But it will

998
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 4: at least, you know, because I mean, I think most

999
00:53:04,700 --> 00:53:08,030
Speaker 4: Americans don't understand that Trump has effectively prolonged this war.

1000
00:53:08,050 --> 00:53:12,010
Speaker 4: So he has, by negotiating business deals with the Russians,

1001
00:53:12,130 --> 00:53:16,049
Speaker 4: by refusing to criticize the Russians, by turning a blind eye,

1002
00:53:16,580 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 4: when the Russians hit Ukrainian civilians, as they've done again recently, today,

1003
00:53:20,580 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 4: the day of the midterms, they did.

1004
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:22,100
Speaker 3: It as well.

1005
00:53:23,860 --> 00:53:26,410
Speaker 4: By all that, what they've done is they've given the

1006
00:53:26,469 --> 00:53:30,290
Speaker 4: Russians this inspiration to keep going. Because this is a

1007
00:53:30,330 --> 00:53:32,850
Speaker 4: war that's over when the Russians decide to stop fighting,

1008
00:53:32,969 --> 00:53:34,930
Speaker 4: when they understand that they can't win, they won't make

1009
00:53:35,050 --> 00:53:39,010
Speaker 4: Ukraine into Russia, they won't create a new Russian empire.

1010
00:53:39,739 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 4: They need to stop. And once they have that, then

1011
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 4: the war will be over and then we can negotiate

1012
00:53:44,020 --> 00:53:48,750
Speaker 4: what happens next. But but Trump, Kushner and Witkoff helped

1013
00:53:48,830 --> 00:53:51,430
Speaker 4: them convince them they could keep going. They could keep

1014
00:53:51,489 --> 00:53:53,589
Speaker 4: fighting because the Americans were going to help them. And

1015
00:53:53,630 --> 00:53:55,910
Speaker 4: this will, I think, temper that a little bit. It's

1016
00:53:55,950 --> 00:54:00,050
Speaker 4: a reminder that there are other forces. Their liberal democracy

1017
00:54:00,090 --> 00:54:04,430
Speaker 4: is real. Democratic systems produce change and nothing is forever.

1018
00:54:04,550 --> 00:54:07,350
Speaker 4: And I think that will that will remind the Russians

1019
00:54:07,430 --> 00:54:08,969
Speaker 4: not to rely too much on Donald Trump.

1020
00:54:09,710 --> 00:54:11,870
Speaker 1: Anne Applebaum, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1021
00:54:12,230 --> 00:54:12,509
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1022
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 3: And now your moment of fuckery.

1023
00:54:17,780 --> 00:54:19,240
Speaker 1: George Conway.

1024
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:19,900
Speaker 3: Back.

1025
00:54:20,300 --> 00:54:23,470
Speaker 1: You've been invited to stay for fuckery. Nobody ever gets

1026
00:54:23,489 --> 00:54:26,390
Speaker 1: to stay for fuckery. Do you know what today's moment

1027
00:54:26,430 --> 00:54:27,089
Speaker 1: of fuckery is?

1028
00:54:27,350 --> 00:54:27,970
Speaker 2: What's the memo?

1029
00:54:28,010 --> 00:54:33,510
Speaker 1: What is it saying? The memo is when Republicans cheat,

1030
00:54:33,590 --> 00:54:38,430
Speaker 1: they usually win, but not with this. What? Republicans thought

1031
00:54:38,530 --> 00:54:41,510
Speaker 1: that they could redraw the map and keep the house.

1032
00:54:41,730 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, dummy Mandarin. Moron Mandarin. Jerry moroning. No, this is

1033
00:54:47,260 --> 00:54:51,140
Speaker 2: actually something that it's actually none of any everything that

1034
00:54:51,180 --> 00:54:54,219
Speaker 2: happened last night to me was stunning, but not surprising.

1035
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,840
Speaker 2: You know, we've been talking about this. I've been pretty optimistic,

1036
00:54:56,980 --> 00:55:00,049
Speaker 2: as I mentioned in the bulk main podcast, that this

1037
00:55:00,110 --> 00:55:02,710
Speaker 2: would be a blowout of some sort. I, you know,

1038
00:55:02,730 --> 00:55:05,170
Speaker 2: I was not going to predict the numbers. But one

1039
00:55:05,190 --> 00:55:06,969
Speaker 2: of the things that we were talking about, I think

1040
00:55:07,010 --> 00:55:09,430
Speaker 2: we would I have talked about is the possibility that

1041
00:55:09,670 --> 00:55:12,690
Speaker 2: that because Trump pissed off the very voters that they

1042
00:55:12,750 --> 00:55:15,890
Speaker 2: thought they could count on in redrawing these maps, he

1043
00:55:15,950 --> 00:55:19,930
Speaker 2: ended up diluting whatever voting strength he had remaining. And that's,

1044
00:55:19,969 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 2: in fact, what happened in North Carolina and in Texas

1045
00:55:23,300 --> 00:55:27,460
Speaker 2: and in Tennessee. I mean, they basically lost most or

1046
00:55:27,820 --> 00:55:31,140
Speaker 2: all of the districts that they created, that they thought

1047
00:55:31,180 --> 00:55:35,299
Speaker 2: they were creating, that were Democrat-proof. Because the margins, you know,

1048
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,420
Speaker 2: because what would have been R plus 5 or R

1049
00:55:38,460 --> 00:55:40,930
Speaker 2: plus 10 districts ended up being D plus 10, D

1050
00:55:40,969 --> 00:55:45,010
Speaker 2: plus 15, even D plus 20. So, you know, it's crazy.

1051
00:55:45,070 --> 00:55:46,529
Speaker 2: I'd love to, I want to see the list and

1052
00:55:46,610 --> 00:55:49,250
Speaker 2: see how bad it is. But they ended up probably

1053
00:55:49,310 --> 00:55:51,810
Speaker 2: losing some seats in the House of Representatives more than

1054
00:55:51,850 --> 00:55:54,510
Speaker 2: they otherwise would have. It's quite amazing.

1055
00:55:54,650 --> 00:55:57,410
Speaker 1: George Conway, thank you, thank you.

1056
00:55:57,630 --> 00:55:58,830
Speaker 2: You're always welcome.

1057
00:55:59,870 --> 00:56:04,270
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1058
00:56:04,650 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best

1059
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 1: minds in politics make sense of all this chaos. If

1060
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

1061
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,140
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.