Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kim Azzarelli. Welcome to this brand new season
Speaker 1: of Seneca's Conversations. In this season, we're launching a special
Speaker 1: five part series on young woman's financial wellness in partnership
Speaker 1: with Secret Deodorant. It's called Secret Money Tips. We recently
Speaker 1: hosted the Young Woman's Financial Wellness Form at the New
Speaker 1: York Stock Exchange in partnership with Secret, renowned financial experts
Speaker 1: gave young women their best advice about budgeting, saving, and
Speaker 1: investing financial empowerment one oh one. Now we're bringing that
Speaker 1: advice to every young woman through this series. I'm happy
Speaker 1: to welcome Berna Annatt, a financial educator who calls herself
Speaker 1: the financial hype Woman. Berna is also the author of
Speaker 1: a new book coming out this month called Money Out Loud. Berna,
Speaker 1: it is so great to have you on the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. Kim, tell us
Speaker 1: briefly about your money journey. What was your relationship to
Speaker 1: money growing up? I would say my relationship to money
Speaker 1: growing up was a lot like my relationship to anything taboo,
Speaker 1: sort of like it's there, but we don't look directly
Speaker 1: at it. It's sort of like just the like kind
Speaker 1: of gross chair in the corner that mom hasn't gotten
Speaker 1: rid of or something. It's there. It's kind of festering,
Speaker 1: but we don't acknowledge it. I grew up as a
Speaker 1: Filipino American daughter of immigrants, first gen. Both of my
Speaker 1: parents are from the Philippines, and this is very common
Speaker 1: in Filipino American families that we don't talk about money directly.
Speaker 1: We definitely don't talk about our money problems to anybody
Speaker 1: outside the family. We don't talk about it inside the
Speaker 1: family either, And so witnessing my family go through some
Speaker 1: struggles we were lower middle income, knowing that we had
Speaker 1: problems paying our mortgage, knowing that we've eventually filed for
Speaker 1: bankruptcy and got caught up in the two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight housing crisis, all of these things were happening, but
Speaker 1: there were no conversations about money. It was just like
Speaker 1: implicit shame, that feeling of tension. So growing up, it
Speaker 1: was a lot of silence, a lot of shame, and
Speaker 1: also a lot of behaviors with money that didn't make
Speaker 1: sense for what was happening in my home. Some purchasing
Speaker 1: things that it felt like to me we couldn't afford
Speaker 1: or flexing about our money in front of other family
Speaker 1: or friends when I knew we were struggling. So it
Speaker 1: was confusing. The word I would use is confusing. And
Speaker 1: after you started working, how did your relationship with money change?
Speaker 1: Or did it change? My relationship with money, I think
Speaker 1: didn't even really start until I started to examine it,
Speaker 1: which was five or six years ago when I started
Speaker 1: working as a team. To me, money was this thing
Speaker 1: that it was almost like when you're holding a feather
Speaker 1: in your hands and it just blows in and out
Speaker 1: like it's there for a second and then gone with
Speaker 1: the wind basically, and that's the nature of money. Money
Speaker 1: to me also was this tool that I could use
Speaker 1: to get what I wanted. But I did not understand
Speaker 1: that when you're using a tool like debt, you got
Speaker 1: to pay that back, and paying it back is not
Speaker 1: as easy as some of these institutions will sell to you.
Speaker 1: For example, you know, getting my very first credit card.
Speaker 1: I won't say the name of the bank, but they
Speaker 1: did have a table on our campus in college and
Speaker 1: they were offering free sweaters, and so I was like,
Speaker 1: I've never had a credit card before. Great, what's this about?
Speaker 1: APR and interest don't care. I want a sweater and
Speaker 1: I got a free sweater. I got a free That's
Speaker 1: really what I wanted was a sweater. And then you're
Speaker 1: telling me it's a five hundred dollars credit limit. I
Speaker 1: get five hundred dollars to do whatever I want. Yay.
Speaker 1: That on top of the eventually forty thousand dollars a
Speaker 1: student loan debt that I accrued. I got to my
Speaker 1: mid twenties and I was like, oh my gosh, I've
Speaker 1: really dug myself into a hole, because at that point
Speaker 1: I had like twelve thousand dollars of credit card debt,
Speaker 1: and so my relationship with money was again carrying lots
Speaker 1: of shame, never talking about it. And it really only
Speaker 1: started to change when I got into personal finance, And
Speaker 1: it changed the most when I started to share my
Speaker 1: journey about getting out of debt, because I just learned
Speaker 1: so much about the fact that we're sharing this shame.
Speaker 1: A lot of us have the same issues, the same
Speaker 1: sort of negative voices in our minds, and that's when
Speaker 1: things started to really change. So what was the one
Speaker 1: big takeaway? What did you learn about money from those
Speaker 1: younger experiences, and what could you tell others who are
Speaker 1: maybe just getting started, I would say what I learned
Speaker 1: about money when I was younger. I'm not saying this
Speaker 1: as like this is a lesson you should learn, but
Speaker 1: what I did learn was that, you know, money, I
Speaker 1: thought was something to be ashamed about. Money is something
Speaker 1: that's kind of out of your control. Money is elusive.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you have it, sometimes you don't. Money is not
Speaker 1: to be discussed, and your money problems mean that you
Speaker 1: are dumb and bad at money. That's what I quote
Speaker 1: unquote learned. When I started to unpack specifically how we
Speaker 1: develop our money habits and the stories we tell ourselves,
Speaker 1: I realized, you know, those stories and those quote unquote
Speaker 1: lessons were not working for me. But I did learn
Speaker 1: them through very real, lived experiences. I learned them through
Speaker 1: seeing my family struggle, really being taught not to talk
Speaker 1: about it, seeing that none of my friends or family
Speaker 1: or anyone around me was talking about it. And so
Speaker 1: in my twenties, I then had to sort of manually
Speaker 1: turn the bus around and understand that, Okay, these might
Speaker 1: be the lessons that I learned, but they're not the
Speaker 1: lessons that I want to bring further into my life.
Speaker 1: I want to learn new lessons that are going to
Speaker 1: help me take down my debt, help me make me
Speaker 1: feel good about money, help me use my money to
Speaker 1: achieve my goals. And that took a lot. I took
Speaker 1: a lot of work, both emotionally and financially. And what
Speaker 1: did you take from that? I mean, what is the
Speaker 1: thing that you felt turned the bus around? Ultimately the
Speaker 1: thing that turned the bus around? And I really beat
Speaker 1: this drum in my book money out loud. But the
Speaker 1: thing that always turns the bus around for me is
Speaker 1: community sharing. I learned that, you know, there's a lot
Speaker 1: we can do by ourselves, but we can go so
Speaker 1: much further when we share our struggles with each other,
Speaker 1: when we share knowledge, when we share experiences. Once I
Speaker 1: was sharing my budgeting journey and my debt journey, first
Speaker 1: on Instagram and then on YouTube, I found other people
Speaker 1: who looked like me, who talked like me, and who
Speaker 1: wanted the same help as me, And so I got
Speaker 1: to learn out loud. My takeaway from that was everything
Speaker 1: is better in community, including money. You know, I learned
Speaker 1: everything we learned about money and shame and secrecy. That
Speaker 1: was a lie that was meant to keep us down.
Speaker 1: That was meant to keep us ignorant. And so now
Speaker 1: everything I do is loud, everything I do is in community,
Speaker 1: because when we help each other, we go so much further.
Speaker 1: So you, through this process developed pretty amazing philosophy about budgeting.
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about the magic of budgeting. Oh, budgeting.
Speaker 1: As I say in my book and everywhere every single day,
Speaker 1: is that budgeting is an unfortunate word, sounds sort of
Speaker 1: like a burp of a word, but it's a beautiful thing. Budgeting,
Speaker 1: to me, is almost this game that I play with myself,
Speaker 1: and the way that I play it is I pretend
Speaker 1: I am the CEO of my life. The company is
Speaker 1: called my life, and all of my dollars are my employees,
Speaker 1: and budgeting means giving every single one of my employees,
Speaker 1: every single one of my dollars, a specific job. No
Speaker 1: dollar can be roaming around my life the building of
Speaker 1: the office without a job or else you know, suddenly
Speaker 1: I can't pay my bills, or I don't know how
Speaker 1: to afford certain things. The jobs that I tried to
Speaker 1: give them, at least, the very first jobs that you
Speaker 1: should give your dollars are needs, wants and dreams, needs
Speaker 1: being you needed to survive, adulting bills, wants being you
Speaker 1: don't need it to survive, but it makes you happy
Speaker 1: and it makes your life better. And then dreams future stuff,
Speaker 1: maybe you're trying to pay down debt or buy something
Speaker 1: or go on a trip. And to me, understanding budgeting
Speaker 1: as a game that I can play as a tactile
Speaker 1: thing where you know, it's so satisfying to give every
Speaker 1: single one of those dollars a job, put those dollars
Speaker 1: in my needs, wants and dreams, bank accounts. It gives
Speaker 1: me this sense of control that I never felt about
Speaker 1: money before. I felt very out of control, and budgeting
Speaker 1: makes me feel not just control, but like it's kind
Speaker 1: of a fun game. I get to reset the game
Speaker 1: every time I get a paycheck. I get to make
Speaker 1: as many jobs as I want to get to name
Speaker 1: those jobs anything that I want. So my philosophy around
Speaker 1: budgeting is lots of fun, lots of control, and lots
Speaker 1: of creativity. That's a really interesting way to think about it.
Speaker 1: And I love this idea of being the CEO of
Speaker 1: a company called your Life. You have a book coming
Speaker 1: out on April twenty fifth called Money Out Loud, which
Speaker 1: I think speaks to your philosophy that sharing and talking
Speaker 1: about money and going through the money journey together is
Speaker 1: really important. What is this book about? Oh, this book
Speaker 1: goes into budgeting and all the things I can tell you.
Speaker 1: Specifically Chapter two is about budgeting, but it's seven chapters
Speaker 1: of everything we just did not learn in school about money.
Speaker 1: And I start off actually not with budgeting our money tips,
Speaker 1: but talking about our money story. What did we learn
Speaker 1: as kids, as young people about money? How does that
Speaker 1: add up to how we feel about money now? How
Speaker 1: is that standing in our way of our money life
Speaker 1: and our money philosophy. Once we break that down, then
Speaker 1: we go into budgeting, aiving, debt, bank accounts, investing, and honestly,
Speaker 1: my biggest point of pride in this book is that
Speaker 1: I end with the idea of financial activism, which means
Speaker 1: that you can move your dollars and even other people's
Speaker 1: dollars in a way to change the world how you
Speaker 1: see fit. If you have a cause that you care about,
Speaker 1: I guarantee you it needs your dollars in some way,
Speaker 1: and I talk a little bit about how to do that.
Speaker 1: So it goes from like, m let me examine myself
Speaker 1: and my money habits too. How can I literally change
Speaker 1: the world with my dollars? It's very exciting. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I love it. I love First of all, it was
Speaker 1: fantastic to be together at the New York Stock Exchange
Speaker 1: and hear you talk about some of these tips and
Speaker 1: your philosophy. But I'm really looking forward to your book
Speaker 1: coming out on April twenty fifth, Money Out Loud. We
Speaker 1: really appreciate you being on the show, and honestly, we
Speaker 1: appreciate everything that you're doing to help us all develop
Speaker 1: better money habits. Thank you so much, Kim. I'm so
Speaker 1: honored to have this opportunity and to partner with Secret
Speaker 1: and Seneca, and I can't wait to see what other
Speaker 1: loud financial magic we make. Thanks for being with us.
Speaker 1: So let me recap some of what we learned today. First,
Speaker 1: creating a budget is probably the most valuable tool any
Speaker 1: young woman can use to get control of her finances.
Speaker 1: As Bernah says, budgeting is a beautiful thing. It can
Speaker 1: be empowering and even fun. Second, Burnah wants every young
Speaker 1: woman to imagine that she is the CEO of a company,
Speaker 1: and that company is called your life. As CEO, it's
Speaker 1: your responsibility to give a specific job to every dollar
Speaker 1: that comes your way. Your dollars, above all, need to
Speaker 1: cover three key categories your needs, that is, the things
Speaker 1: you need to survive, your wants, and of course, your dreams. Finally,
Speaker 1: Burnah wants us to think about money as a real
Speaker 1: game changer for ourselves and for others. We can each
Speaker 1: ask ourselves, how can I literally change the world with
Speaker 1: my dollars for myself and for others? Join me next
Speaker 1: week for more money tips for young women on our
Speaker 1: next episode of Seneca's Conversation, Secret Money Tips in partnership
Speaker 1: with Secret Deodorant. Thank you for listening, and please share
Speaker 1: today's podcast episode with others in your life. This is
Speaker 1: Kim Azzarelli, co author of Fast Forward and co founder
Speaker 1: of Seneca Women. Seneca's Conversations is a production of the
Speaker 1: Seneca Women podcast network and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
Speaker 1: check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.