1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Fitness Disrupted, a production of My Heart Radio. 2 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: I am Tom Holland, and this is Fitness Disrupted. Yes, 3 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: you're now going to know when I recorded certain shows 4 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: based on this voice. Uh sick. But the show goes 5 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: on and there's no way I was going to cancel 6 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: or reschedule even the interviews I had today, because they 7 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: are two amazing authors. And the first one I'm bringing 8 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: to you is Michael Easter. Michael Easter, Oh my gosh, 9 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: is this book beyond phenomenal beyond. It's called The Comfort Crisis. 10 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: Embrace Discomfort to reclaim your wild, happy, healthy self. There's 11 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: everything in this book. There's everything for nutrition to psychology 12 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: to motivation. I mean, you name the topic. Just everything 13 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: we've done in the hundreds and hundreds of shows here 14 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: on on Fitness Disrupted, and Michael touches on it and 15 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: explains it and and gives the science within this incredible 16 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: storyline of him going out into the Alaskan wilderness for 17 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: thirty three days. It is so well written, and this 18 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: book will help you live your best life. So many 19 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: topics on hunger and and motivation. It's so good. It's 20 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: so good. So let me just read to you who 21 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: he is. Michael Easter is a contributing editor at Men's 22 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: Health Magazine, calumnists for Outside Magazine, and professor at the 23 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: University of Nevada, Las Vegas. His work has appeared in 24 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: more than six the countries and can also be found 25 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: in Men's Journal, New York, Vice, Scientific, American, Esquire, and others. 26 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: He lives in Las Vegas, on the edge of the 27 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: desert with his wife and their two dogs. He is 28 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: an incredible writer. Incredible writer, and so heavily researched when 29 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: around the world, and and there's no way I'm going 30 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: to get to all the topics I want to get 31 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: to with him. And so I can't say enough times 32 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: that if you're listening to my show you're interested in 33 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: living your best life, this book has to be on 34 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: your list of must reads. The Comfort Crisis, and he 35 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,119 Speaker 1: interviews many of the people I've already had on this show, 36 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: the best of the best. Dr Daniel Lieberman will talk 37 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: about because it's about evolution. He looks back at what 38 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: we evolved to do and what the modern world is 39 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: doing to us. And as I will say to him, 40 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 1: when I read a book like this, it is like 41 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: a total contradiction in that I'm so excited to read 42 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: this incredible information that just reinforces so many of the 43 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: things that I've already read and studied. And and then 44 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 1: he you know, there's nuances to it and shades of gray, 45 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 1: but then he gets depressed. So where are we going 46 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: from here? Because we want to be comfortable? But how 47 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: many people are going to do the things we're gonna 48 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: talk about when we talk about going outside your comfort zone? 49 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: How do you truly live your best life when so 50 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: much of the modern world it's preventing us from doing 51 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: just that physically and psychologically. All right, enough, enough, going 52 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: to go to a quick break and when we come 53 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: back so excited, no way rescheduling, sick or not. We're 54 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: doing it. We come back from the break. Michael Easter, 55 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: author of The Comfort Crisis, We'll be right back, and 56 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: we are back. You know, I say it every time 57 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: I have a guest on because I only have the 58 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: best guests, and I apologize for my voice, but there 59 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: was no way I wasn't going to keep this interview 60 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: because this guy is tough to get and we we 61 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: we just have to do this, regardless of how my 62 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: voice sound. So Michael Easter, thank you so much for 63 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: taking the time. How are you, hey, I'm I'm doing good. 64 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: I'm sorry to hear you're not. I appreciate you talking 65 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 1: on with this thing. Oh it's so easy, so easy. 66 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 1: There was just as I said, no way, we weren't 67 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: going to do this, And thank you for taking the time. 68 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: We talked quickly. I can't speak more. High live your book. 69 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I just I read everything you know before 70 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: I interview the people who have written them, and this 71 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,119 Speaker 1: is just one of my favorite in years. Michael, Um, 72 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: so thank you, like on so many levels. Yeah, it's 73 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: just let's just start with to give us the story 74 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: behind you know, the makings of this book. Oh man, Yeah, 75 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 1: I mean there's a law. But kind of the short 76 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: answer is that, um, you know, I worked at Mental 77 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: Health magazine for a lot of years. I haven't worked 78 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: there for about five years. I still write for them 79 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: a lot. But you know, early on in my career 80 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: as sort of a health performance fitness journalist, I realized 81 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: that really anything that improves human health, it usually comes 82 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: with some dose of discomfort on side. Right. It's like, 83 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: if you want to improve your fitness, you're gonna have 84 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: to train, and training is uncomfortable. If you want to 85 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: lose weight, you're probably gonna have to eat less and 86 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: usually you're gonna be hungry, and that's uncomfortable. And this 87 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 1: even applies to like mental health stuff. Right. It's like 88 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: if you if you are going through something hard in 89 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: your life, usually you might have to uncover something under 90 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: the surface, like what's going on there, and that's uncomfortable. 91 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: And so oh, I sort of saw that, and then 92 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: I had just a series of events in my life 93 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: that really cemented that. And one of them is that 94 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: I meet this guy whose name is Donnie Vincent, and 95 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: he's this backcountry bow hunter and filmmaker who kind of 96 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: goes into the world's most remote, dangerous areas. And I 97 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: went on this hunt with him and it was only 98 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: like five days. I was profiling him for ment health, 99 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: but it was it was fascinating because, um, you know, 100 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: I told you I made that observation about discomfort, but 101 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: like in the wild, you get hit with all these 102 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: different forms of discomfort that we don't get hit with 103 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: in our daily lives anymore. So for example, right, I'm 104 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: exposed to the elements the whole time, I'm cold, anytime. 105 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: You know, if we want water, we gotta hike down 106 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: a mountain, drag it back up. Everything takes effort. I'm 107 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: also board, like, you don't get self service out there. 108 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: There's no nothing to distract yourself with, right, and on 109 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: and on and on, And eventually Donnie ends up inviting 110 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: me on this hunt to the Arctic for like thirty days, 111 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: and I figured, like, I've made this, I've made this 112 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: observation about discomfort. I've seen like, oh, you know, our 113 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: lives have changed a ton over the past hundred, one thousand, 114 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: ten thousand years, and what's really changed is that we've 115 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: added all these different forms of comfort into our life, 116 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: which is great, don't get me wrong. But at the 117 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: same time, you know, you can tie a lot of 118 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: this stuff to a lot of the the problems that 119 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: we now face. And so in going to the Arctic, 120 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,239 Speaker 1: I sort of wanted to thrust myself into this world 121 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: of discomfort and see what I could learn from it, 122 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: like how it changed me. And it definitely changed me. 123 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: I mean it changed my perspective on I mean life 124 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: and living it across the board for sure. And when 125 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: I got home, I just wanted to know, like why 126 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: Why was I so much fitter? Why had I lost weight? 127 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: More importantly, why was my mental health so much better? Like? 128 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: What was it about going into this world of discomfort 129 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: that moved the dial? And so then from there I 130 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: just started traveling the world and speaking to experts about 131 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: the topic. And these are people in all sorts of 132 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: different disciplines, you know. I went to book to geneticis 133 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: and Iceland. I went to Bhutan and met with you know, 134 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: Buddhist leaders, I know, special Forces soldiers in Florida, with 135 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: neuroscientists at Harvard, I mean across the board, and they 136 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: all these people kind of showed me, in their own 137 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: unique way, uh, sort of the benefits of reinserting some 138 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: fundamental forms of discomfort back into your life. So you 139 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: didn't do your homework. So I know, that's what's so amazing. 140 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: And I love that you start the book and then 141 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: that through line of the Alaskan back country experience you're describing, 142 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: like that's that's what runs throughout the whole book, and 143 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: then you're back and forth to everything you just described, 144 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: which is just so cool. And let me start by 145 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: saying too, by the way, Michael, I was about a 146 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. Ten twenty pages into the book, 147 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: I stopped and I was really angry. I was really 148 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 1: angry that I didn't write this book because it's it's 149 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: just it's so good and like, and I want the 150 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: listeners to realize that, you know, you just talked about 151 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: a bunch of people you interviewed and met with around 152 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: the world. There's everything in this book, and we'll touch 153 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: upon you know, most of them, but there's so much 154 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 1: in here when it comes to diet and as you said, 155 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: the psycho pology, um just living your best life. And 156 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: you know you can just distill it down to the 157 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: simple stuff that I would say, Michael, the answers to 158 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: life are on Instagram, right, all the memes that everyone 159 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: puts out there, Right, it's just no one applies, right, 160 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: no one actually lived them. But yeah, the Alaskan backcountry 161 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 1: like through line is just amazing. There's no way that 162 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: couldn't change you, right. I'm sure you surprised even yourself 163 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: when you got back. Oh yeah, I mean I think 164 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: I think fundamentally, you know, what I'm arguing is that 165 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: I think we all kind of intuitively know, like, yeah, 166 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: I need to get out of my comfort zone. To change. 167 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: But I think that a lot of people don't realize 168 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: just how comfortable our lives have become in the grand 169 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: scheme of time and space. I mean, think about the 170 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: day of the average person like never. I mean you 171 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: could argue, like never in a day do we really 172 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: have to be uncomfortable, especially physically, right, It's like we 173 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: sleep the soft beds, we have easy access to food 174 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: all the time, we live in temperature can troll, um, 175 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 1: we have a ton of distractions in the form of screens. Right, 176 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: And this is like a fundamentally different lifestyle than we 177 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: lived and evolved in over two and a half million years. 178 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: And so this like quick change from an environment of 179 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: discomfort that we involved in to one of comfort. That 180 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 1: presents a problem for us because we're still wired to 181 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: do that which is going to be most comfortable because 182 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: I used to save us, right, So this drive we 183 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: have to be comfortable. It tells us over eat. Now 184 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: that made sense when food was hard to find, Right, 185 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: you put on fat and that would be good for 186 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: when the lane times came. Um, it told us to 187 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: avoid all forms of risk because life used to be 188 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: really dangerous. But nowadays it basically you know, tells us 189 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: don't do things that we perceive as risky that could 190 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: actually improve our lives because we're not We're probably not 191 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: gonna die from risk anymore. Right. The risk that we 192 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: have now is like business risk that could lead us 193 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 1: into like greater territory. But we fear a lot of things, 194 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: and on and on and on and so I think 195 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: that there's just kind of this general mismatch in a 196 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: lot of ways between our new environments compared to these 197 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: drives we have. Yeah. And the term you use, and 198 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: I love this is miss OGGI right, uh, And I 199 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: you know, I took so many notes, by the way, 200 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: this book took me forever to read because I was 201 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: scribbling in the in the uh, you know, in the 202 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: uh all throughout the book. Um talk about miss oge 203 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: and what that means. It's it's what you just described. 204 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: But how that is a huge part of life should 205 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: be Yeah, totally. So. I mean, if you think about 206 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: as humans evolved, we used to have to do hard, 207 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: challenging things all the time. I mean this could be 208 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: from having to hunt for our food. You know, an 209 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: average hunt would occur across about thirteen miles, and we 210 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: were having to hunt all the time. Right, This was 211 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: like getting dinner. This could be from moving from summer 212 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,479 Speaker 1: into winter and grounds. This could be from encountering a predator, 213 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: and on and on and on. But each time we 214 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: would take on one of these challenges, it would teach 215 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: us something about ourselves, right, it would. It would teach 216 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:59,679 Speaker 1: us what we are capable of and expand our potential. 217 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: So nowadays you think about it, you can go through 218 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: life without being really challenged and have a halfway decent life. Like, 219 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: you know, you can get a job, you're gonna have 220 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 1: access to food, you're gonna have a roof over your head, 221 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: you're gonna be in temperature control, all these things. But 222 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: by not ever really being challenged, you're gonna miss a 223 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: lot of your potential but not getting out of your 224 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: comfort zone. Like there's all this potential out there that 225 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: you're not tapping into and learning about. So I ended 226 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,319 Speaker 1: up meeting this guy whose name is Marcus Elliott, and 227 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: he's a sports scientist. He's got a couple of facilities 228 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: and does a lot of work with NBA players and 229 00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: NFL guys and stuff like that. And he does this 230 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 1: kind of kookie thing once a year that he calls musogi, 231 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: and the idea is that to mimic these past challenges 232 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: that our natural environment used to show us, that used 233 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: to teach us a lot about ourselves. Uh, he tries 234 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: to mimic those. So once a year he'll go out 235 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: and he'll just pick some rants seemingly a totally random, 236 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: weird physical task in nature, and there are only two rules. 237 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: One is that it has to be really hard, and 238 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: he defines really hard by saying you should have a 239 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: fifty fifty shot finishing, so coin flip right. And then 240 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: the second rule is that you can't die, which is 241 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: you know, a good one, yeah, kind of tongue in cheek, 242 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: but also like don't be done right. Um. So he's 243 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: done things as weird as like one year, him and 244 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: a few other people they walked an eighty five pound 245 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: rock I think it was five miles underneath the Santa 246 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: Barbara Channel, So like one guy would dive down, pick 247 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: this thing up, walk it, you know, ten yards underwater 248 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: on the sand, and then the next guy would go down. 249 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: But they've also done things like Okay, here's a mountain 250 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: we can see, let's try and get to the top 251 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: of that in a day or we're gonna try and 252 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: stand up paddle board across this really big distance. You know, 253 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: we don't have much experience stand up paddle boarding, and 254 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: you know what happens when you do something like this 255 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: is that and I would argue people people hit this 256 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: a lot, and like really long events as well, is 257 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: that you kind of reached this point where you want 258 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: to quit, right where you think they You have absolutely 259 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: reached what you perceive it is your edge, like I 260 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: can't go any further than this. But by not quitting 261 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: and continuing to put one ft in front front of 262 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: the other, you then have this moment where you can 263 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: look back and go, wait a minute. So I thought 264 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: that back there was my edge, but I have clearly 265 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: gone past it. So I sold myself short there and 266 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: then that raises the question, right, well, where else in 267 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: my life am I selling myself short? So the point 268 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: is not the workout. The point is what you learn 269 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: from this challenge, because it's really it's sort of like 270 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: a you know, psychological, emotional, and even spiritual task that's 271 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: sort of masquerades is this physical thing. So that's something 272 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: that I advocate people do, and it's the beauty is that, right? 273 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: It has to be a true because people tend to 274 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: select things that they know they're going to finish. Right. 275 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: When you think about how people will often say run 276 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: a mart On New York City marathonisist um this last weekend, 277 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: It's uh, it's not I don't know if I'm gonna finish. 278 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: It's I don't know if I'm going to finish in 279 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: three hours, in fifteen minutes or whatever my goal is. Right, 280 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: So we rarely humans avoid failure because in the past, 281 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: failure used to often mean death. Right, Like I was 282 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: talking about with those physical challenges, So are those challenges 283 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: we used to face in the past, But now failure 284 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: it never means death. Right. It's like I didn't hit 285 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 1: my goal time, but I still finished, or you know, 286 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: I was presenting in the office and my boss gave 287 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: me a bad look because I messed up slide seven 288 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: or whatever it is. You know, but we still fear 289 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: failure to be like to an extreme, like it's gonna 290 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: kill us, right and so um. By putting yourself in 291 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,480 Speaker 1: a chance where you have a high risk of failure 292 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: coin flip, you can also learn that, like, failure is 293 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: not that big of a deal, and you've probably sold 294 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: yourself short. And so with the fifty fift thing, I mean, 295 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: it's like I had a woman emailed me and she said, 296 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: I read your book. My name is Deborah. I'm planning 297 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: a Missagi. It will be really hard and I won't die. 298 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: And she's seventy nine and she's mentioned she's seventy nine 299 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: years old. Punchline. But so it's like, you know, for 300 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: one person who hasn't you know, ran in whatever thirty years, 301 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: like it could be I don't even know if I 302 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: can run, you know, two miles. All right, we'll go try, 303 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: Like what's the worst that can happen? Right? You probably 304 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: learn something about yourself. And I wrote that, you know, 305 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: so many quotes on page forty one, you say people 306 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: vastly overestimate the consequences of failure today. This is what 307 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: you're saying. And I totally agree. And what I love, 308 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: Michael is that as I was reading this part and 309 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: scribbling like crazy as soon as I read you know, 310 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: they can't die. I recently last year with um uh, 311 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, COVID and everything crazy ultra marathon friend and 312 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 1: I went and did the rim to rim to rim, 313 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: and so I scribbled that, yeah, I scribbled that in 314 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: the you know, in the book, and then all of 315 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: a sudden you talk about how he did that right, 316 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: that was his Missokee one year. And for me, it's 317 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: exactly what you said, because I've on Iron Man's I've 318 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: done marathons, I've done all that stuff. That was so 319 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: unique for me in all the ways you described, and 320 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: it was one of the single greatest things I've done. 321 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: And I've done a couple of other things, but for 322 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: all the reasons you're you're talking about, Like I I 323 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: the night before, I'm in the you know, crappy hotel room, 324 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: going this is crazy. You know, I didn't train with 325 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 1: this pack. I just put it on. It weighs like 326 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: twenty pounds. My friend is he's gonna be fine, and 327 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: he's an ultra marathon guy. I'm not him, um, And 328 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: it was, you know, the last three hours I was 329 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: I was frightened that like I'm gonna die, Like you know, 330 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: started raining, I'm by myself. We didn't run together. But 331 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: as you said, like what you learn and you know, 332 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: you still learn stuff marathons and things like that, but 333 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: it's something so unique and what I love too that 334 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,640 Speaker 1: you talk about is when you, I wrote the line down. 335 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 1: When you remove superficial metrics, you can accomplish way more, right. 336 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: And I didn't have time goal, no one was watching. 337 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,239 Speaker 1: This wasn't a race. This was nuts and it was 338 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 1: so uniquely freeing in that way. And and and I mean, 339 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: how do we ascribe that to people, Michael, how do 340 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 1: we get that across? Yeah? Well, I think, you know, 341 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: I think what this is is um. You know, it 342 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: goes back to like what Joseph Campbell talked about with 343 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: the hero's journey, right. You see this same sort of 344 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: arc in all in stories from all different cultures, like 345 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: the myths that they used to teach people about something. 346 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: And you know, the hero's journey, it's like the hero 347 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: leaves the comfort of home and they get thrust into 348 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: this environment it's like sort of super challenging try in 349 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: middle ground, and they have to like battle and survive, 350 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: and then by coming out on the other side of that, 351 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: they are fundamentally changed as a person, Like they are 352 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: literally a new person, right, And and you see this 353 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: in things like the military as well. It's like what 354 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: happens when someone goes in the middle It's like they 355 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: enlist and then they put them through hell week and 356 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: then what happens when they're done. You know, it's like 357 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: they get this tab ranger tab or whatever it is 358 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 1: that signifies, Oh, you're a new person now because you've 359 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: sort of moved on to like a new stage in 360 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: life where you're a lot more capable and confident and 361 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: just like you have a new perspective. And I think 362 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 1: that these sort of things that we can even just 363 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: invent in nature sort of mimic a lot of those 364 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: past things that we used to do, those that same 365 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: heroes journey and also things like writes a passage that 366 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: we used to do um societies used to do in 367 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: the past in order to like help people get to 368 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: the next stage of their life and improve they're what 369 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: they were capable of. Right, And I love that you 370 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: talk about two because I would argue, and I'm sure 371 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: you'd probably agree that social media is kind of ruining 372 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: all these things as well, right, because it's like, I'm 373 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: I going to post about it. What what is you know, 374 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: this perfect world that I'm going to show that I 375 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: did this thing, and you talk about you know, it's 376 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 1: gonna be hard not to quit because no one is watching, Right, Yeah, 377 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,239 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna quit because you know, because you're watching, right, 378 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: it's all about you. And when you truly you know, 379 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: I know about you, Michael, but there were the races where, 380 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: you know, years ago, things weren't going right for me, 381 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 1: and I'm writing that email, I'm writing that post in 382 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: my head right during the race itself. You know, this 383 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: is nuts, This is nuts, Like who cares? This shouldn't 384 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: be about that, um And when you truly don't care, 385 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: and it's it's about you and what you find and 386 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: you're you're not going to post about it and you 387 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: don't care if anyone's watching because they're not, then it's 388 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: like it's a whole another level. Agree. And I think 389 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: that that's the nice thing about Misogi two is because 390 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: it's just kind of it's made up, you know. I 391 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: think there's a massive value in goals like a marathon 392 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: or an iron man, of course, and I think people 393 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: should do them. But I also think that there's value 394 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: and just like here's just some like arbitrary thing that 395 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: is I can't compare myself to anyone else because no 396 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: one's done this because like, when you know, I think 397 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: we do naturally go Okay, now that I'm joining this 398 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: like socially constructed thing, which is still useful. But now 399 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: once you add like society into the element, now I 400 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: have to compare myself to others, right, And so by 401 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: having um a sort of a yang to the yang 402 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: where you go, Okay, well here's this thing that's just 403 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: like I'm not competing against anyone, this is just like 404 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: me for me, um, I think you start to shed 405 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 1: a lot of different layers that can be beneficial to explore. Yeah. Yeah, 406 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: it becomes so freeing, right that it's like it's it's 407 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: so rare that we just do something for ourselves in 408 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 1: that way. Yes, And it's that self efficacy I talk 409 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: about all the time, one of my favorite you know, 410 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: sports psychology constructs, and and that confidence you get as 411 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: you're saying, like, I know we always talk about it, 412 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 1: and it goes back to the Instagram thing, but you know, 413 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: you come out of that, as you said, a different 414 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: person and stronger person, and each and every time it 415 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: builds upon that. Right, and as you said, you go, 416 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I didn't think I could do this. 417 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: What's next? And again I think we can talk about that, 418 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: but but you know, I think Iron Man as crazy 419 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 1: as it sounds as we're saying this out, Michael, that's 420 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: like a start, right. Your marathon is your start, right, Okay, 421 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,479 Speaker 1: figure out that you can do that and then go 422 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: and do something that's unstructured. Yeah, totally. And I mean 423 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 1: I think a lot of it is psychological too. So 424 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: I mean when we think about, um, you know, human physicality, 425 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 1: it's like in the past, people used to do amazing 426 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 1: things all the time. I mean, people would run a 427 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: marathon distance on a hunt, you know, and now it's like, 428 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: what percent of the population has run a marathon? Maybe 429 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: like one percent or something. Um, But this used to 430 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: be a regular thing that people did all the time. 431 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: And I think people hear a goal like a marathon, 432 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: they're like, that's insane. I could never do that. But 433 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: that is a luxury belief. It's a luxury because you 434 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: were just born in the time and place where you 435 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 1: don't have to do that and you've never been forced to. 436 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: But if you were to thrust yourself into that, you 437 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: can freaking do it. I mean, humans can do a 438 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 1: lot of amazing things, right, But it's just often people's 439 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: minds and it's the perspective of a time and place 440 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: that they were born into that we believe we can't 441 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: do things. Yeah, and that's why you know I have 442 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: friends with and have them on a couple of times, 443 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: and we'll have them on again. Daniel Lieberman, Right, Dr 444 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,399 Speaker 1: Lieberman and evolution. You talk about all these people, and 445 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: that's where I always go back to as well, Michael, 446 00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: like you know, where where do we come from? What 447 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: what are we wired to do? And it becomes really 448 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: depressing when you, you know, look deeply enough as you're saying, 449 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: because stress, everything about what we evolved to do is 450 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: kind of backwards now. And you know, as you said, 451 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: from hunger to stress. Um, it's really hard not to 452 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: get depressed for people like you and I would argue 453 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: to read a book or to write and know about 454 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: these kind of things and say where are we going? Right? 455 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: What's I don't know about you, Michael, but like that 456 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: at the end of reading your book, I was like, 457 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: I love it, and I'm really depressed because how do 458 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: we how do we turn this boat around? What do 459 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: we do? Yeah? Well, I mean we we are fighting 460 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: back against you know, millions of years of wiring telling 461 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: us to overread and to to be as lazy as 462 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,439 Speaker 1: possible and all these things. Um, yeah, I don't know. 463 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: I think that. Um, hopefully it's just you know things 464 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: like you and I are doing that, just getting the 465 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: word out. Some eventually a message clicks, you know, and 466 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 1: I think too, you know. Part of the theme of 467 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: the book is that, you know too, for change to 468 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: how up in, it's gonna be uncomfortable, and that can 469 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: often come in the form for some people of like 470 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: I got a health scare or I saw a photo 471 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: of myself at the beach that I don't like. And 472 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: so it's kind of that, like you have to have 473 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 1: that moment of like, oh man, this really sucks where 474 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 1: the pain of that becomes greater than the pain of 475 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: being like I'm gonna go to the gym or I'm 476 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: gonna change the way that I'm living in some capacity, right, 477 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 1: and I love you know. I want people to realize 478 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: that what Michael is saying is everything we talk about 479 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: he talks about in the Bookie backs up with science. 480 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: Like so this isn't just like, hey, you know positive 481 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: psychology type thing. There's you know, science to everything. You know, 482 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: you were talking about the Runners and it's the Calahari 483 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: persistence Runners, right, So when people say, you know, I 484 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: love that with Daniel Everman like I do try Athlons Michael, 485 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: but I were not. I hate swimming, but you know 486 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,400 Speaker 1: it's a means to keep from drowning. I'm not good 487 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: at it, and I got that there Lieberman to say, 488 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: we're not meant to swim, right, We're born to run, right, 489 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: And you know you talk at and all that. So 490 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: what I love is, you know, everything you talk about 491 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 1: in the book is backed up with science and and 492 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: the best of the best. Um, let's just quickly talk 493 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: so many things. But you were kind of alluding to 494 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: the central governor theory. I love that, right, and that 495 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: you went there back to the mind right in the body. 496 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: What's the central governor theory you know for people? Yeah, 497 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: so it's this, it's this idea that basically your brain 498 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: puts a governor on your physical performance, and that's to 499 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: essentially keep you safe. When they look at research, people 500 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: tend to use only about fifty of their capacity because 501 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: your brain doesn't want you to work way too hard 502 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: and either one injure yourself or be burned through all 503 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: your energy reserves. Right, So your brain always sort of 504 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,719 Speaker 1: puts a limit on your performance. But if you can 505 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,959 Speaker 1: start to sort of realize this, I would argue you 506 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: can kind of go love that cap So think of 507 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: I mean, think of exercise. It's like, why is exercise uncomfortable? Well, 508 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: it's because as we evolved, it didn't make any sense 509 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: to move any more than you needed to write, because 510 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: you're just burning through precious resources that were scarce. So 511 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, you think of like a caveman, 512 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: a caveman who enjoyed just going out for runs for 513 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: the hell of it, he would have starved to death 514 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: and died like he would have burned through energy. So 515 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 1: we still have that drive to avoid exercise and that 516 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: really plays out in our brain with the sensations that 517 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: our body throws at us as we exercise. And so 518 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: we often sort of people have, you know, moments and 519 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: exercise we're like, oh, this is so bad, I can't 520 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: take this anymore. But the reality is that this is 521 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: just your brain sort of trying to hold you back 522 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: from doing more than you're capable of it, just to 523 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: make sense time doesn't necessarily anymore, right, right, it's basically 524 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 1: you know crazy, um you know theory that we're not 525 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: crazy theory but like your brain says, we don't want 526 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: you to die. I don't want you to die. I'm 527 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: gonna slow you down, right with Timothy Noakes, you know 528 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 1: who went off the deep end. But like, UM, what 529 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: a great theory and again backed up by science, and 530 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: that the brain is the limiting factor and perform It's right, 531 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: and it goes to endurance and other concepts like that. 532 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: Oh my god, there's so much stuff. But yeah, like 533 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: I've had conversations with UM. I have a friend who 534 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: it was in the Olympic. He's the first UM guy 535 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: to win a gold and a Nordic event, and you 536 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: know he talks about like, look you look at our team, 537 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: like there are people who have higher v O two 538 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: max as, they have all this different stuff that that 539 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,199 Speaker 1: I don't. But what I do have is I have 540 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: experience and I have something going on upstairs that other 541 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: people don't. I mean that's when you especially when you 542 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: get to the highest levels. It is ultimately psychology that 543 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: I think determines the winners and losers. I totally agree. 544 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: You know, back when I first started in this industry, Michael, 545 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: you know, you learn the physiology and stuff, and I said, 546 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: you know what it's the psychology. And I went back 547 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: to do the Masters in that with the exercise science, 548 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: because as you're saying, you know, it was my opinion 549 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: that the top five people in any event, they're pretty 550 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: much physiologically the same. Right. But it's and I watched 551 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: it in the Iron Man's back in the day. It 552 00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: was like who needed to win for the you know, 553 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,359 Speaker 1: to to get the money right to put food on 554 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: the table back in the day, right, and there, why 555 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: was bigger than the other person that day? They're willing 556 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 1: to suffer at a higher level that day, right, which 557 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: is which is an incredible concept. Oh my gosh, so much. 558 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: But talk about I love this. So the one thing 559 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,439 Speaker 1: that stood out to me that was new to me 560 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: was the rocking. So I gotta go get one of 561 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: those things now, So I do, and I'm gonna buy one. 562 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: So tell people about rocking and kind of the history 563 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: of that. Yeah. So I started thinking about this because 564 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: in the Arctic we were hunting for food and you know, 565 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: we used every part of the animal and everything, but 566 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: after we had successfully hunted a caribou, we had to 567 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: pack it out. So, as I'm sure you've talked about 568 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: with Dr Lieberman on the show. The human body evolved 569 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: to run long distances very slowly in the heat, and 570 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: we would use this in order to hunt. So we 571 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: would slowly but surely sort of chase down an animal 572 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: until it toppled over from heat exhaustion because four legged animals, 573 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: they can't cool themselves. Well, So this is why we're 574 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: good distance runners. But and that shaped our body more 575 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: or less, this ability to run. But there's another thing 576 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: that humans are uniquely good at. And what would we 577 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: have to do after we kill the nanti? We would 578 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: have to carry it home? Right, you have to carry 579 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: the meat back to camp. So that's the other thing 580 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: that humans are really good at is carrying. We're the 581 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: only animals that can carry weight for distance. And so 582 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: I argue in the book, you know, I mean you 583 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 1: talk to Dr Lieberman and he's you know, sort of 584 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: told me, you know, I think the things that the 585 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: human body um is adapted to do can maybe be 586 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: uniquely good for us compared to other forms of exercise. 587 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: And so you know a lot of people run, still 588 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: like jogging as a super popular thing, But how many 589 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: people for a workout will just carry something heavy over distance? Right? Uh? 590 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: And I found the one tribe who has, and I'd 591 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: argue that it's turned them into some of the fittest 592 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: people that ever walked the planet, and that's Special Forces soldiers. 593 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: So the sort of crux of military special forces training 594 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: is rucking, which is putting weight in a backpack and 595 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: simply just going for a walk hiking, right. And what 596 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: why this is beneficial is because you get a cardio element, 597 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: but you also you also get a strength element because 598 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: the pack weighs something, right, and we know from research 599 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: that you need both cardio and strength for overall health benefits. Right, 600 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: So I one of the guys explained it to me, 601 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: He's like, you know, rucking is kind of like cardio 602 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: for people who hate to run, and lifting for people 603 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: who hate the gym, So it kind of combines two 604 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: and one. And the thing that I love about it 605 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: too is it's unbelievably safe. So, you know, running running 606 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 1: is a skill, so it can be a little bit tricky, 607 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: but most people can walk, right, And so if you 608 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: just throw some weight in the pack and walk, the 609 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: injury risk is super low. But you get a lot 610 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: of the benefits of running and of lifting. And I 611 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: think it's just like, I'm not saying it's the end 612 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: all be all by any means, but I am saying 613 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: that it's a very important form of exercise that no 614 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: one does anymore and we should do. Yeah. It it 615 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: blew me away because I never thought, you know, I 616 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: was like, oh, yeah, we're persistence hunters. But you never 617 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 1: go how did we get the meat out? Right? You go, right, 618 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: we never go to that next step, which is kind 619 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: of funny, and it's so I love that. And you 620 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: talk about you know, going to work and you know 621 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: the different ways you can incorporate into your life and 622 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: with the kids, and it's just such an easy way. 623 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: You know, you were nice about most people get hurt running, right, 624 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: so they do too much too soon, and shoes and 625 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: we go and all that kind of stuff. But such 626 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: a safe, easy way to burn a lot of calories. 627 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: Make it natural. Back to evolution. But let me just 628 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: finish up here with let's talk about the inactivity mismatch hypothesis, right, 629 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: because we're kind of talking about all this. You talk 630 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: about rest and you know, kind of bring it all 631 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: together with you know, we're meant to move. You don't 632 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: have to do crazy stuff. Um, but we're not doing 633 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: what we evolved to do, and it doesn't have to 634 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: be crazy. Shouldn't be crazy. Yeah, I mean if you 635 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: look at if you look at how much humans moved 636 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: as we evolved, it's significantly more than we do now. Right, 637 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: So there's um certain hunter other tribes and Believia they 638 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: put in about seventeen thousand steps that day on average. 639 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: We frequently ran long distances for hunting. And we're just 640 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 1: always moving. I mean, people are always moving and we're 641 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: not just walking, right, We're also having to carry stuff. 642 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: We're also having to lift you know, small loads, do 643 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: all the stuff. So we're just constantly moving all the time. 644 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: But nowadays it's pretty easy. I mean it's pretty easy 645 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: to just like hardly move at all. I think the 646 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,960 Speaker 1: average step count for the average American is like four 647 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 1: thousand steps. I mean, this is this is very very 648 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: little movement, and I don't necessarily so there's different ways 649 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 1: to think about it. But I kind of think of 650 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: think of it as like it's not that exercise is 651 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: good for us, it's that not moving enough is really 652 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: bad for us, and it starts to cause a lot 653 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: of problems. So people tend to think of like, oh, 654 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: I need to add exercise. No, you're just returning to 655 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 1: a baseline of the activity you need to be a 656 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: normal freaking human being, right. But also, you know, to 657 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: your point about it not being having to be crazy, 658 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: like when you look at hunter gatherers, is how they uh, 659 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: you know, try and figure out a lot of this 660 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: this data so that because that tends to be a 661 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: model for how they think we lived in the past. 662 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,959 Speaker 1: And there's I mean there's still differences, but it's pretty close. Um. 663 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: By the way, real quickly, Michael, don't you think those 664 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: tribes like you talk about how many like Lieberman goes, 665 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: you know, all these different researchers who go and strap 666 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: these hunter gatherers with like the celerometers and stuff. You 667 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: think they're like, just leave us alone. Like, yeah, they're 668 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: very they're very well might be they're like, oh god, 669 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: here come with scientists again. Um. Yeah, it's not crazy. 670 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: Though it's not like hunter gatherers are doing like prospit 671 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: like I think you see this you know, for example, Um, 672 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: in the paleot community, there's this idea that and I 673 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: don't mean to sound critical because I think overall most 674 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: fitness things are always if you get people to move 675 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: more and eat better like good. Um but you see 676 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: like that they tend to picture like early man is 677 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: like these man sive, you know, like jacked bodybuilder types. 678 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: It's like that's not true at all. Like the average 679 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: hunter gathers like a hundred and twenty pounds, like they're 680 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: tiny people, you know. But what they're doing is they're 681 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: just doing a lot of movement that tends to be 682 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: relatively like light and moderate, but they're just doing it 683 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,240 Speaker 1: all the time. Like they're carrying, you know, thirty pounds 684 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: across the land for a while. Now we're just gonna walk. Oh, 685 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: we're gonna jog for a little bit because we're hunting out. 686 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 1: We're gonna dig for a while. Right. It's just kind 687 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: of like this constant, low level activity. But I think 688 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: that tells us something about um our own exercise. It's 689 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: like we don't have to go crazy, crazy crazy to 690 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: see benefits. Like even just little incremental increases and activity 691 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: can render massive benefits, and especially if you don't exercise 692 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: at all, Like even just doing a tiny bit, it 693 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: is unbelievable. The amount of benefit people get from just 694 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,279 Speaker 1: adding a little bit like ten minutes into your day 695 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,839 Speaker 1: is astounding, and so I think that you know, with 696 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: how sort of with sort of the extremes you see 697 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: and it in this now and I guess um extremes 698 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,439 Speaker 1: and sort of the modern sense. I think people think, 699 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: all right, well, I either have to be lazy or 700 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: like you know, try and be Tom and an iron man. 701 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: It's like that's not true at all, Like, right, just 702 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: go for just go for a three mile walk or something. 703 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: You know, I'll take you like forty five minutes and 704 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: you'll get a ton of benefits out of that. I 705 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,399 Speaker 1: keep saying, you take justin only out, Well, I only 706 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: walked a mile. I just did this. No. What what 707 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: we're saying is that's that's what you need, right, And 708 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: extremes are easy, right, Extremes are easy saying I'm not 709 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 1: going to eat a cookie, you know, or you know, 710 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,560 Speaker 1: all these diets restrictive. I love Matt Fitzgerald on you 711 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: know another guru I love so smart um and talk 712 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: about all the different diets, right, and how just the 713 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: fact that there are so many different diets shows you 714 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 1: there's a flaw in the system. Right, But you know 715 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 1: it's it's moderation, and excessive moderation is the term I 716 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: use and building it into your day. As as Michael saying, 717 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: let me leave with this, by the way, you know 718 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: again we need ten hours to talk about everything. This 719 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 1: book is nutrition, This book is is icology. There is 720 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: every single thing. By the way, Michael, as I was reading, 721 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, he hasn't talked about cold yet. Boom 722 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 1: at the end of the book, like you touched on 723 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: every single topic from you know, the hygiene hypothesis. Everything 724 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: you need to know about living your best life is 725 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: in this book. I'm not over selling it either, with 726 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: all the research to back it, so I can't recommend 727 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,399 Speaker 1: it more highly. Michael, thank you so much for taking 728 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: the time. I wish I didn't sound like this, you know, 729 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 1: for the show, but um it just absolutely made my 730 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: year because it just is so good and it's gonna 731 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 1: help so many people, you know, find that thing and 732 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: figure it out and have the the science to back 733 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: it up and go Okay, now I get it because 734 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: you present it in such a just amazing way that 735 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: um yeah, I get. I don't know what more to say. 736 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: You know, you talk about junk food, you talk about 737 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: I I wanted to talk about amazing guy Trevor cashy 738 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: because he talks about I wrote the quote down. I 739 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: quickly solved hundreds of problem just by virtue of improving 740 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: a person's awareness of their own behavior. Right, not genetics, 741 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: not things like that. You know, we could talk about 742 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: hormones and lepton and grow and all that kind of stuff. 743 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,919 Speaker 1: I can't recommend this book more highly, Michael. I can't 744 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 1: wait for your next one. I know you're working on one. 745 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: Can you give a little hint on what it's about 746 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,800 Speaker 1: or no? Um? Yeah, So it's the working title is 747 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: The Scarcity Brain, and it is about how humans evolved 748 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: in environments of scarcity of all kinds of things, so 749 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 1: from food to information, to the number of people we 750 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: could influence, to the amount of stuff we could have. 751 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: And now I argue we live in environments of abundance 752 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: of all those things, and that kind of presents some 753 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: problems for us. So I kind of investigate each one 754 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: by going to similar to the Comfort Crisis, to go 755 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: into different places, to speak with different experts and adventures 756 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: here and there. So yeah, I can't wait. I mean, 757 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: you made me feel better about myself too, with you know, 758 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 1: talking about boredom and uh, you know, I kind of 759 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,359 Speaker 1: felt like putty. I don't know if you're a Seinfeld guy, 760 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: but there's an episode where he's sitting on a plane 761 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: and he's just staring straight ahead and owayne, Soy're gonna 762 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: read a book and he's like no, He's like, you're 763 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,359 Speaker 1: just going that's kind of me. Like I can be 764 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: happy just doing nothing, and my wife is really disturbed 765 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: when I do things like that. But you made You've 766 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: made me feel better. Thank you again. Really really appreciate it. 767 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: And yeah, I look forward to hopefully in a year 768 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: or two having you back and we'll talk about the 769 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: new one. Yeah, I'd love it. Hey, thank you so 770 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,439 Speaker 1: much for having me on. For all the kind words 771 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: about the book. I'm super psyched that you like it. 772 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 1: That's a that's huge coming from you. And I love 773 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: what you're doing with this show and in your life. 774 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: And uh so, yeah, it was awesome to connect. Awesome. 775 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Michael. Again, this is Michael Easter. 776 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: The book is the Comfort Crisis. Perfect holiday gift. You 777 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: want to read it yourself. I bought tent Michael to 778 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: gift friends. I mean, I just cave it to everyone. Yeah, 779 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna give it to more so comfort crisis. 780 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,919 Speaker 1: Michael Easter. Thank you so much, Michael, and we'll speak 781 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,520 Speaker 1: with you soon. Yes, sounds great, Thank you, Tom. All right, 782 00:38:55,600 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 1: and we will be back right after this brief break. Yeah, 783 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: and we are back. I say it every time because 784 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 1: I want three hours with these people. I want to 785 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,919 Speaker 1: do the Joe Rogan podcast length because there's so much 786 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: in this book, so much I wanted to talk to 787 00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: him about. You have to read it. If you're listening 788 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: to my podcast, this is what you're interested in, and 789 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,919 Speaker 1: I'm bringing you the best of the best to help 790 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: you live your best life. And he's such a great writer. 791 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: And he opens up at the beginning of the book, 792 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: let's the inside, like you know, his life. It goes 793 00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 1: pretty deep, explains you know, it's some of the motivations 794 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:11,840 Speaker 1: behind what he's doing. But the research, it's invaluable on 795 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,359 Speaker 1: every single level. As I said, as I was reading 796 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: the book, I'm like, oh, well, he forgot to talk Nope, 797 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: touched on everything. Can look back at a hundred podcasts 798 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,800 Speaker 1: that I've done, and he talked about that specific topic 799 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: and explained it and gave you the research and the 800 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: numbers and made it really interesting and understandable and what 801 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: I find incredible every single time I have someone on 802 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 1: like Michael Easter or Matt Fitzgerald or Daniel Lieberman, the 803 00:40:52,360 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: smartest always apologize and you know, extremely humble. This book 804 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: is amazing, it's entertaining and it is so educational and 805 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: I want you to find your miss AGGI. They got 806 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: a term for it, and I know it sounds crazy, 807 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: fifty fifty chance of succeeding and you can't die. But 808 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: life is about challenging ourselves psychologically and physically. I will 809 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: bring this topic to you over and over and over 810 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: again because it goes to self efficacy and confidence and 811 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 1: resilience and grit and you don't get that by being comfortable. 812 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:41,719 Speaker 1: But I know the question is you say, well, I 813 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,759 Speaker 1: don't want to be uncomfortable. When you find the way 814 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 1: that works for you to be uncomfortable, and there's a way, 815 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 1: it's fun, it's fun, and you want to do it again. 816 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: There's a reason over a hundred thousand people try to 817 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 1: get into New York City Marathon every year. And it's 818 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,320 Speaker 1: often talked about in my industry when you talk about 819 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:15,399 Speaker 1: marathons and races and events, the one and done. How rare. 820 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: That is, in other words, that someone will do an 821 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,919 Speaker 1: event that's really challenging and not do it again. We're 822 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:26,799 Speaker 1: not challenging themselves in that way again. Why is that? 823 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,520 Speaker 1: Because there's a need, as Michael talks about in his book, 824 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:40,479 Speaker 1: and it helps us live our best lives. Okay, enough 825 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: border the book The Comfort Crisis, and I want to 826 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 1: hear what you thought about it and how you do 827 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,400 Speaker 1: that is you reach out. Tom h Fit is Instagram 828 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,479 Speaker 1: and Twitter for me Tom h Fit. You can also 829 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: go to Fitness disrupted dot com. Email me through the site. 830 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:06,400 Speaker 1: Thank Michael Easter again, Sad, Sad, I didn't have so 831 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:08,160 Speaker 1: much more time with him so much I wanted to 832 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: talk to him about But I just want you to 833 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 1: read the book. I want you to get out of 834 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: it what I got out of it. Because there's three 835 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,879 Speaker 1: things we control, and he talks about all these things 836 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,279 Speaker 1: in the book. How much we move what we put 837 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: into our mouths and our attitudes. That's awesome. I am 838 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:35,840 Speaker 1: Tom Holland this is Fitness Disrupted, Believe in yourself. Fitness 839 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: Disrupted is a production of I Heart Radio. For more 840 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,320 Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app. 841 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.