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Speaker 1: Hey wan to buo. Come in. I'm Doug Gottlieb.

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Speaker 2: This is All Ball part of the new Doug Gottlieb

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Speaker 2: Show podcast where every every week, in addition to talking

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Speaker 2: about other issues in basketball and as we expand back

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Speaker 2: to others issues in sports, we welcome in the biggest

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Speaker 2: name in UH management for current college athletes.

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Speaker 1: That would be Dan Paneman. Of course he started the

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Speaker 1: weave or is it the weave Dan? Or is just weave?

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Speaker 1: I've actually always one of that just weave. Yeah, how'd

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Speaker 1: you get to you? Why'd you name it We've?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know We've is like a basketball analogy,

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Speaker 2: But how'd you come upon weave?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: Actually I was in the jumbles of Costa Rica on

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Speaker 3: a retreat and I kind of knew I had to

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Speaker 3: rename the company. It was called Ponham and Data's Representation.

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Speaker 3: I'm Dan Pohman and my partners Mike Nats. When we

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Speaker 3: started this company, we did not ten for it to

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Speaker 3: become a large company. We thought we'd have a small

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Speaker 3: little bootique agency, two guys, a couple of clients.

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Speaker 4: We called it Pondament and Native and it.

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Speaker 3: Started grow and grow, and I knew I needed to

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Speaker 3: name that encompass our mission more with all the different

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Speaker 3: agents and clients we have, and you know, naming things

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Speaker 3: is hard. So I was in the jungles of Costa

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Speaker 3: Rica on a retreat. Actually a woman, a Costa Rican woman,

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Speaker 3: I know, it was like, you know, it came up

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Speaker 3: to me. She said, you know, my husband always asked

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Speaker 3: about you. She says, he says, your friend who works

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Speaker 3: in basket? And another woman walks up and she's like,

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Speaker 3: you work in basket? I said, yeah, Like so you

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Speaker 3: weave baskets. I said, no, no, I don't weave baskets.

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Speaker 3: And then I had a friend who was with me

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Speaker 3: on that retreat and we thought about it, and he said.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, Dan, you do we've. You weave people together.

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Speaker 3: You we've we've players, careers, you weave communities, you have

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Speaker 3: spirituality supports, you do we've You should call your company

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Speaker 3: that weave my friend Jack Dreyfus, and I said, that's

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Speaker 3: a great name. And I went and served the trademark

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Speaker 3: who was available. And obviously it's the three men weave

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Speaker 3: in the woven basket. But for me, it's more the

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Speaker 3: symbology of like weaving people together and weaving a career.

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Speaker 3: Uh and and and uh weaving our communities and uh

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Speaker 3: and then actually our flying Telo Larson, who plays for

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Speaker 3: the Heat, drew our logo. If you can see our logo,

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Speaker 3: I know some people are listening on audio. It actually

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Speaker 3: makes a weave in a circle.

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Speaker 4: W it's w E A V E. It makes a weave.

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Speaker 4: So so that's where we've for good. Now we we've

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Speaker 4: there's no high and weave as I say, no, I.

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Speaker 2: And we've Okay, there's a bunch of I mean, this

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Speaker 2: one's served up on a platter for you because a

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Speaker 2: lot of Twitter, Warriors and some college basketball people have

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Speaker 2: been obviously discussing, maybe not you personally, but people in

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Speaker 2: your field a great deal. Plus, Baylor signs a kid

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Speaker 2: who played summer league ball with the Knicks.

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Speaker 1: That one's interesting.

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Speaker 2: So let's start with the biggest current agent narrative that

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Speaker 2: social media has presented this week.

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Speaker 1: What do you what? I have my thoughts.

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Speaker 2: What do you think the biggest maybe misconception that is

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Speaker 2: currently circling in the world social media?

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Speaker 3: The question is are we talking biggest misconception and biggest story?

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Speaker 3: I mean, the biggest story is obviously the kid that

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Speaker 3: Baylor signed and then.

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Speaker 1: The two let's let's start there. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I love the sport of college basketball as much as

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Speaker 3: everybody else. If someone played in the NBA, I aim,

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Speaker 3: and I, as a player first advocate, have a hard

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Speaker 3: time stomaching a guy who previously has the NBA experience

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Speaker 3: playing in the NBA. Similarly, I have a hard time

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Speaker 3: stomaching these mid season editions now to be as an

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Speaker 3: agency participating in some of those midseason editions.

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Speaker 4: Yes, we don't make the rules, we buy by them.

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Speaker 3: If we have players in Europe who want to come over,

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Speaker 3: then we'll come over, bring them over.

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Speaker 4: But I do have a hard.

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Speaker 3: Time feeling like it's good for the game when guys

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Speaker 3: teams are adding mid season now. As far as the

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Speaker 3: NBA thing, yes, if someone played in the NBA, I think,

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Speaker 3: just like my gut says, it's probably not best for

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Speaker 3: the sport of college basketball for a former NBA players

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Speaker 3: going to play now the guy was like drafted and

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Speaker 3: never played in the NBA or went through the draft

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Speaker 3: process and.

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Speaker 4: Didn't get picked.

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Speaker 3: I do think if they're within the age bracket, they

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Speaker 3: should have an opportunity to play.

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Speaker 4: I've always felt that, like if a guy goes through

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Speaker 4: the draft process and doesn't get picked.

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Speaker 3: The prior rules said you can't return and play college basketball,

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Speaker 3: so they're stuck in the G League. If you go

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Speaker 3: through the draft process, you get bad advice, you don't

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Speaker 3: get picked. I don't see a reason why you shouldn't

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Speaker 3: be able to play college basketball. I think the former

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Speaker 3: G League Ignite guys who kind of got duped into

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Speaker 3: joining G League and Nite to get paid rather than.

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Speaker 4: Playing college basketball, and then they folded G League Ignite.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they should have an opportunity to play college basketball,

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Speaker 3: but ultimately talk to a bigger thing. It's like, is

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Speaker 3: it Scott Drew's Is he the villain for adding someone

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Speaker 3: within the rules? As the ends AAA the villain for

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Speaker 3: allowing it. Well, the NACA is not allowing it. The

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Speaker 3: courts are allowing it.

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Speaker 4: Right. The NCAA has tried to doesn't want any of

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Speaker 4: this stuff to happen.

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Speaker 3: NCAA wants it to go back to the old days

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Speaker 3: where players are effectively slaves, right, whether they're working and

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Speaker 3: making money for everybody but themselves. Right, the nca doesn't

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Speaker 3: want any of this. They will have been forced into

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Speaker 3: all this by the courts. So because you have a

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Speaker 3: system where the NCAA tries to block everything, the court's

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Speaker 3: rule that pretty much everything may do is illegal, and

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Speaker 3: that becomes the battleground, then all these things get allowed

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Speaker 3: and people are like, who's to blame, Well, who is

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Speaker 3: to blame is the coaches for working within the system,

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Speaker 3: the agents are working within the system, the players are

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Speaker 3: working within the system. The NCAA for being so incompetent

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Speaker 3: that they can't stop any of it for happening. I mean,

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Speaker 3: ultimately it speaks to what I've said all along is

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Speaker 3: that we're not going to like patchwork fix this thing.

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Speaker 3: It's gonna be teared down, rebuild built. It's going to

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Speaker 3: be players as employees having a union collectively bargaining. It's

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Speaker 3: going to be potentially power five, power four breaking off

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Speaker 3: and having you know, multiple divisions as they do in

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Speaker 3: the NBA with the GVUE, as they do in Europe

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Speaker 3: with multiple divisions. Like, there's going to have to be

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Speaker 3: to tear it down, rebuild, and we're just appointing it

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Speaker 3: and it's going to be messy and it's going to

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Speaker 3: be complicated. But within the current system, there's nobody to

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Speaker 3: stop what's happening, and we just have to work within

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Speaker 3: the rules.

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Speaker 1: Well I have, I have some different thoughts.

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Speaker 2: Let's start with the bringing up here, here's the issue,

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Speaker 2: and I want to get to the ignite issue in

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Speaker 2: a second. You know, for years, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you felt this way, I felt like the European guy was.

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Speaker 2: It was harder to get Europeans in school into play

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Speaker 2: because like en it's Canter. They've basically been pros overseas.

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Speaker 2: But that's all there is, right, there's the junior system

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Speaker 2: and then and then you get signed by a protein.

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Speaker 2: You may stay junior ball, you may get least out whatever.

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Speaker 2: And so technically I actually understand that once you allow that,

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Speaker 2: because last year at semester we added Jonatan Levy, who

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Speaker 2: was a pro right now, we were able he was

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Speaker 2: able to show that he didn't make any money, you

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Speaker 2: know that it simply covers his expenses or whatever. So

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Speaker 2: he was able, cleared, able to play as a freshman,

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Speaker 2: just part being in his mid twenties.

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Speaker 1: And so.

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Speaker 2: Once you allowed foreign professionals to play, well why shouldn't

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Speaker 2: a domestic professional bio play like it does? Become a contradiction, right,

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Speaker 2: So I understand that's a hard one where I differentiate

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Speaker 2: with the g League ignite what guys is that despite

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Speaker 2: the fact that the system has changed a great deal,

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Speaker 2: the nil and collective era has been opened long enough

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Speaker 2: to where even when those guys originally went in, you

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Speaker 2: made the cognitive decision where you could be a college

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Speaker 2: player or be a pro, and you chose to be

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Speaker 2: a pro. Right and by the way, every other sport

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Speaker 2: has this, They just so people are aware.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's unfair.

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Speaker 2: I don't because college baseball players is exactly same thing.

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Speaker 1: You draft at a high school. You have a choice.

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Speaker 2: You can go one year or you know, you can

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Speaker 2: go after one year, you go, you go right away,

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Speaker 2: or you go after year three. Right, football you don't

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Speaker 2: have that choice. Hey, you don't. But you know, my

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Speaker 2: daughter's an equestrian. They know they can be juniors up

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Speaker 2: until a time where they go to college or they

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Speaker 2: become a pro. That's a decision, that's a choice they make.

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Speaker 2: Tennis players, same thing, golfers, same thing. You can be

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Speaker 2: an am or you can be a pro. They all

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Speaker 2: chose to be pros. That's the choice.

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Speaker 1: That's it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you on

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Speaker 4: that specific example, as you think.

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Speaker 2: The problem is the problem is that you've now allowed

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Speaker 2: foreign players who didn't necessarily feel like they had that

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Speaker 2: choice right to now go. Well, I know you were

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Speaker 2: a pro there, but you can come back and play here,

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Speaker 2: whereas if you're in the States and you make essentially

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Speaker 2: what's what on paper could be seen as the same decision.

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Speaker 1: You can't come back and play college.

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Speaker 2: It's got to be really hard because the law doesn't work,

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Speaker 2: doesn't have it doesn't allow as much nuance as real

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Speaker 2: life has in terms of nuance. That's why I think

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Speaker 2: people get really stuck with it.

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Speaker 3: And I think here one hundred percent right, I think

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Speaker 3: there's two issues here. One like you described, there's the

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Speaker 3: pre nil World rules in the post and now World

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Speaker 3: rules and Nile World. It's constantly changing. So you see

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Speaker 3: guys like James Nagy I believe his name is Juana Xavier.

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Speaker 4: He maybe didn't think.

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Speaker 3: That making money in college was an option, so he

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Speaker 3: went the pro route, and now things have changed, so

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Speaker 3: he gets to backtrack. And we're seeing a lot of

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Speaker 3: these older pros coming over who when they were eighteen seventeen,

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Speaker 3: college didn't seem like a viable financial option, So now

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Speaker 3: they're getting in to correct it. I think in a

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Speaker 3: few years we're not going to see it. Maybe in

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Speaker 3: two years we're not gonna see as many older pros

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Speaker 3: coming over because those same guys will go to college

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Speaker 3: when they're eighteen nineteen. Right now, he said the ignite thing,

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Speaker 3: and it is a different case.

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Speaker 4: It's funny. Someone sent me the name of a player

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Speaker 4: yesterday who.

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Speaker 3: Played OTE right, who made money an over time than

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Speaker 3: did G League, then went overseas, and I was like,

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Speaker 3: I remember talking to this kid when he was choosing

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Speaker 3: OTE and telling him, don't go to OTE.

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Speaker 4: You're much better off going to college.

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Speaker 3: You're gonna lose your eligibility and there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: money coming in college.

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Speaker 4: He made the choice to go to OT, and now

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Speaker 4: he wants to back from playing college. I completely agree

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Speaker 4: with you.

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Speaker 3: Once the dust settles in a year or two, where

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Speaker 3: like this wave of guys who missed their chance at eighteen,

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Speaker 3: went pro at eighteen and now want to play play

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Speaker 3: in college. Once that wave is gone, it's going to

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Speaker 3: stabilize a little bit because then it can actually be Hey,

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Speaker 3: if you choose to go pro, you're a pro, and

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Speaker 3: that's it. And if not, you go to college and

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Speaker 3: you have to make that choice. But a lot of

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Speaker 3: these guys didn't get that choice when they were eighteen

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Speaker 3: because NIO wasn't what it is now, right, So but

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Speaker 3: I agree, we have to get to a point where

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Speaker 3: you have.

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Speaker 4: To pick your path and go with it, and we're.

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Speaker 3: Gonna see a lot more guys picking college. I can't

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Speaker 3: imagine why you would pick going to the G League

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Speaker 3: or going pro overseas as an eighteen year old. In

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Speaker 3: college was a viable often. I mean maybe because they

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Speaker 3: give you a little more money there than you would

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Speaker 3: at a lower bit major. Okay, fine, there's gonna be

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Speaker 3: some exceptions, But then the question becomes who enforces those rules.

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Speaker 3: The NCA doesn't have teeth to enforce it. The courts

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Speaker 3: are going to advocate for a free market, so kind

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Speaker 3: it goes back to collective bargaining setting rules that everyone

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Speaker 3: agrees to a bide by, and we're a long way

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Speaker 3: away from that. There's too much money at stake, and

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Speaker 3: the courts keep siding with the players. So I don't

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Speaker 3: know who's going to set those rules. But I think

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Speaker 3: everybody it's like everybody's crying out, we need guardrails. We

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Speaker 3: need rules, but okay, who's who's making the rules, who's

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Speaker 3: deciding there's There is no leadership that's capable of it.

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Speaker 4: The NCAA wants to be the leadership.

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Speaker 3: But everything they try to do is illegal, and the

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Speaker 3: course decides so they can't. They can't be them, and

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Speaker 3: we don't really have a solution. It's going to be

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Speaker 3: constant chaos for quite a bit longer, which, again, which

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Speaker 3: is why I always tell my clients, this landscape is

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Speaker 3: ever changing, and that's why you need good representation who

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Speaker 3: understands that the changing landscape and how it implicates you,

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Speaker 3: how it affects you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what do you think the biggest.

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Speaker 4: Walking point on Twitter right now?

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Speaker 3: Yes, well, I saw Brandon Goebel, our mutual friend, arguing

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Speaker 3: with somebody. There's this guy on Twitter who's like he said,

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Speaker 3: like n lai nil. I think he's a pay I

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Speaker 3: think he's a paid a propagandist by like a lobbyist

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Speaker 3: or something. I don't know why some civilian would care

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Speaker 3: so much about railing against the players' rights.

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Speaker 4: And spend so much time on unless they're paid to

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Speaker 4: do it.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, basically Brandon was saying everybody's crying out that

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Speaker 3: the game is so.

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Speaker 4: Bad and Nile's ruining college basketball.

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Speaker 3: Look at the ratings from you know, I think it

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Speaker 3: was like from two thousand and two to two thousand

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Speaker 3: and eighteen, the college basketball ratings were steadily declining, and

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Speaker 3: now since like twenty twenty to now, the ratings keep

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Speaker 3: going up.

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Speaker 4: I think last year I saw a statistic that the ten.

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Speaker 3: Most washed basketball games in the world last year, five

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Speaker 3: who were NBA finals, and five were college basketball games,

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Speaker 3: and some are regular season like college His point was,

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Speaker 3: you can't say nil is ruining college basketball when it's

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Speaker 3: never been more popular, More people have never been watching,

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Speaker 3: There's never been more conversation around it, and players are staying.

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Speaker 3: We're getting better player small receias, players are staying in

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Speaker 3: college longer because they don't need to go to the

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Speaker 3: draft to get paid.

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Speaker 4: The product is better.

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Speaker 3: I think the fallout of it is, which is a

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Speaker 3: fair point, is that there's less Cinderellas, because when they

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Speaker 3: have so much talent at the high end ten million

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Speaker 3: dollars rosters, it's a lot harder to upset than in

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Speaker 3: the tournament. This year, we saw less Cinderella's. That is

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Speaker 3: a fair point, but like the game has never been healthier,

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Speaker 3: normople have never been watching more, people have never been

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Speaker 3: going to games. The counterpoint this guy made was, well,

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Speaker 3: that's just because of gambling. People are just watching more

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Speaker 3: because of legalized sports betting. I'm sure that has something

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Speaker 3: to do with it. I'm sure my players get death

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Speaker 3: bets all the time and they lose people to parlays. Okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure gambling plays a role. But whether it's gambling

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Speaker 3: or not, the viewership numbers in a world where almost

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Speaker 3: every other live broadcast or network television is going down

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Speaker 3: in ratings and college basketball is going up, it's undeniable

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Speaker 3: that it's never been more popular. Whether it's because of

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Speaker 3: the quality of the product or because of gambling, it's

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Speaker 3: undeniable that NIL is not severely harming the product when

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Speaker 3: it's walked by more people than ever before. But Brandon

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Speaker 3: and this dude, I've never engaged with that guy to

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Speaker 3: nil NL I guy, he always gets in my comments

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Speaker 3: and never respond because when someone is clearly so entrenched

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Speaker 3: in their viewpoint, you're just going to spin in circles

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Speaker 3: and you're going to talk at each other. My mother

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Speaker 3: just texted me today about a political thing. I could

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Speaker 3: have texted her back, I said, Mom, I love you.

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to.

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Speaker 3: Engage because I know where it's going to go. That's

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Speaker 3: why I don't argue with trolls. I had one troll

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Speaker 3: I almost responded to yesterday. He was very creative in

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Speaker 3: his combination of anti agent sentiment and anti semitism. It

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Speaker 3: was like a really creative tweet where he pulled an

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Speaker 3: interview I did with Kyrie Irving in two thousand and

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Speaker 3: nine on my YouTube channel and referenced it to be

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Speaker 3: anti Semitic.

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Speaker 4: But I didn't respond. You can't respond to trolls.

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Speaker 2: I know you are for it, and no, no, I've

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Speaker 2: really done a better job.

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Speaker 1: In recent years of not doing.

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Speaker 2: It every once in a while now only do it

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Speaker 2: to defend and my players for the most part, like

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Speaker 2: I don't you know, I don't care about anything else,

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Speaker 2: or just you know, when people were just outright blatant

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Speaker 2: lies like I don't I don't like that stuff most guys,

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Speaker 2: I just block or mute whatever I gotta.

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Speaker 4: Send you this tweet, he was so creative as anti semitism.

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Speaker 4: I was actually like.

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Speaker 3: But I knew if I responded to him then it

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Speaker 3: would just tell my audience, Hey, if you say anti

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Speaker 3: Semitic things, then damn will respond and it's just going

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Speaker 3: to invite more of it.

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Speaker 4: So I decided not to. I'll send it to you

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Speaker 4: on the side. That was very funny.

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Speaker 2: I look forward to I look forward to seeing it.

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Speaker 2: What was your Did you take issue with friend for

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Speaker 2: Shilla's tweet?

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Speaker 4: Well, actually it's funny.

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Speaker 3: The anti semitic, anti agent comment was was in response

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Speaker 3: to friends tweet. I responded, people don't know me in

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Speaker 3: front or friendly, so they think, oh, these guys are battling. No,

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Speaker 3: we're just having light banter me in front of a pool.

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Speaker 3: And then this guy went in on me. But you know,

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Speaker 3: frans tweet essentially was all the ways you know friends,

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Speaker 3: the old cranky guy.

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Speaker 4: We know friend, we love friends. He's old and cranky, right,

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Speaker 4: he's not not that old. I'm sorry friend, but you know.

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Speaker 3: Franz tweet was, here's all the things that are ruining

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Speaker 3: the game, but here's no solutions to it.

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Speaker 4: That's everyone's favorite thing to do.

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Speaker 3: Now, here's all the things wrong with it, but here's

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Speaker 3: there's no actual solution that I can propose. But one

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Speaker 3: of the things he said, was you know agents are

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Speaker 3: ruining the game. They're that best and clueless at worst

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Speaker 3: or something. And I said, Fran, don't say we're all sisters.

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Speaker 3: Like you know, there are some good college coaches and

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Speaker 3: some bad college coaches. There are some really good college

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Speaker 3: coaches who are you know, raising good young men?

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Speaker 4: And there are some crooks. We know that.

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Speaker 3: And in the agent world maybe there's more crooks than

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Speaker 3: shysters and really unqualified agents than there are good ones.

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Speaker 4: But they're not only at my company.

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Speaker 3: I know some other really good agents like I mentioned before,

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Speaker 3: you know, like often Walton Hory, Markham, Drew Calso are

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Speaker 3: some of the guys you know in the US. You know,

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Speaker 3: I don't even know these guys at PNW Sports Group.

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Speaker 3: I've never met these guys, but they seem to be

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Speaker 3: getting their guys really good jobs, and they say to

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Speaker 3: be succeeding. I could recognize which agencies are actually guiding

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Speaker 3: their players really well and which ones are completely ruining

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Speaker 3: careers in our shysters and manipulators. I've seen so many

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Speaker 3: screenshots my clients send me from guys claiming to be

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Speaker 3: the best annile agent in the world, and they have

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Speaker 3: no no track record, no no training whatsoever. But so

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Speaker 3: I told Fran I was like, hey, frand give me

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Speaker 3: some credit. We're not shysters. And he responded, you, actually,

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Speaker 3: I know a lot of the guys in their staff.

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Speaker 3: You do a great job. I said, most, not all,

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Speaker 3: but one thing I'll bring up to that specific point.

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Speaker 3: This is the point I'm going to bring up to

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Speaker 3: day a little self promotion for myself.

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Speaker 4: And good agents out there. When people talk about.

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Speaker 3: The problem at the game right now, people talk about

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00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,639
Speaker 3: it like everything's a bidding more. Everybody just goes to

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Speaker 3: the highest bidder. Everybody just wants the most money, and

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Speaker 3: agents just want to push guys into the portal to

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Speaker 3: make more money. And I think that's true with a

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Speaker 3: lot of agents. A lot of these shysters do just

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Speaker 3: want to push guys in the portal to make money.

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Speaker 3: But what seven rates good agents from bad agents is

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Speaker 3: guys who agencies that prioritize only profit, Guys who prioritize

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Speaker 3: fit overprofit. That is our mantra in our company, fit overprofit.

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Speaker 3: We want our guys to succeed where they go. And

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Speaker 3: if you look at our track record, we just did

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Speaker 3: a study the other last week of like a midseason

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Speaker 3: study of our placements, we had nineteen guys that went

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Speaker 3: from either D two low major or mid major to

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Speaker 3: high major schools. In this portum okay, nineteen jump level

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00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,680
Speaker 3: jumps to the high major. Everybody knows that's the risky

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Speaker 3: as jump. Right, If you go lower mid major to

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Speaker 3: high major, maybe you have a thirty percent chance of succeeding, right,

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Speaker 3: maybe you get paid.

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Speaker 4: But most of these guys don't succeed making that jump.

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Speaker 4: Of our nineteen guys who went low in mid major

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Speaker 4: to high major, sixteen are full time starters.

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Speaker 3: The seventeenth is the sixth man on the ACC team,

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Speaker 3: and the only two who aren't starting. One is a

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Speaker 3: rotation big for a top ten team and the other

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Speaker 3: got surgery this summer and he's working his way back.

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Speaker 3: So we effectively went in nineteen for nineteen succeeding in

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Speaker 3: lower mid major to high major transfers.

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Speaker 4: Well, how do we do that fit over profit?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 4: We didn't just go for the biggest bat.

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Speaker 3: Who went for the best fit, and we have a

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Speaker 3: second grouping of guys below them that could have gone

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Speaker 3: high major, but they would have been backups, So instead

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Speaker 3: we sent it a mid major plus and those guys

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Speaker 3: are stars. Terrence Kinner Dukuine, Jamel Jones at New Mexico State,

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00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:23,879
Speaker 3: Laobif at UCSD, Jamiir Simpson at UTSA, Gavin Walsh at UNC.

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Speaker 4: Wilmington, Chandler Confort of the Elon.

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Speaker 3: We have a number of mid major plus guys who

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Speaker 3: are going to be All Conference or Conference Players of

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Speaker 3: the Year. Those guys could have gone high major, they

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00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:34,480
Speaker 3: took a little bit less money and instead of being

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Speaker 3: a high major backup, there mid major plus stars. So

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Speaker 3: like our agency has expertise, just like you would go

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Speaker 3: to a doctor for the best medals of advice.

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Speaker 4: You go to the best agents for the best portal

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Speaker 4: advice or the best advice.

436
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,760
Speaker 3: And to say agents are shysters is like saying all

437
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,920
Speaker 3: doctors will kill you. Yeah, there are some doctors who

438
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,879
Speaker 3: will kill you and some who will save you. So

439
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,360
Speaker 3: let's separate the good from the bad.

440
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 1: Our.

441
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 3: Data shows that guys are much more successful and having

442
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 3: transferring and finding success when they use us versus when

443
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 3: they use their mom or their their AAU coach or

444
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,879
Speaker 3: a bad agent. So by putting all agents in the

445
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 3: bad category, you are guiding players towards entering that portal

446
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 3: boy by themself and setting them up to fail.

447
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 1: You're you're right.

448
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,920
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's there's good agents, there's bad agents.

449
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,879
Speaker 2: There's guys that ask for under the table payments, there's

450
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 2: guys that send them to just the highest bidder, there's

451
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 2: guys that put guys.

452
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 1: In the portal that should not.

453
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 2: And you know, for a player, it's really hard because

454
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,679
Speaker 2: they don't know who to listen to, right because everybody's

455
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 2: telling them there's great things out there for you, but

456
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 2: not where you are. And so you get to this

457
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 2: time of year and you see a lack of buying

458
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 2: an investment from some of these guys, whereas at the.

459
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,880
Speaker 1: Start of the year they were kind of all about it.

460
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,159
Speaker 2: And that's the really, really challenging thing, is finding a

461
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 2: way to get those guys tricking back to the level

462
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,679
Speaker 2: of hunger. If you ever, if you ever can, I

463
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,119
Speaker 2: was going to ask you about some of the promotion

464
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 2: you guys do, okay, And I bring it up because

465
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 2: I actually understand it from this side when I was

466
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:11,360
Speaker 2: at ESPN.

467
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:12,880
Speaker 1: Even since I've left ESPN.

468
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:14,919
Speaker 2: You know, there's lots of people who are critical of

469
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:20,119
Speaker 2: ESPN promoting their own stuff, and my point was always, well,

470
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 2: if they're not going to promote it, who is, right, Like, I,

471
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 2: how could you blame ESPN for promoting that next week?

472
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 2: You know, Duke plays Syracuse. When do you think NBC, Peacock, CBS, Fox,

473
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,120
Speaker 2: And of course they're not going to promote it. So

474
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 2: the only chance to promote it is on your own network.

475
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:44,679
Speaker 2: And so yeah, you got to be a little bit

476
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,560
Speaker 2: cheerleader for yourself. So I do understand the self promotional aspect.

477
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,360
Speaker 2: And you guys have some players that are having outstanding

478
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 2: seasons and you want to promote the fact that not

479
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 2: only are they having great years, but you represent them,

480
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 2: which essentially is telling everybody in the in the sport, Hey,

481
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:02,880
Speaker 2: if you want to get a hold of this guy,

482
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 2: go through us, right. That's doing your job. On the

483
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 2: other hand, I do wonder about the optics because we

484
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 2: had a player last year whose father win or lose,

485
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 2: and sometimes after bad losses would always put out the

486
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 2: stats of his son, and we just thought, like, God,

487
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 2: it's a bad look. It's not that you can't promote

488
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 2: your kid, but right after the game, and it also

489
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,160
Speaker 2: signifies to everyone, hey, this kid wants to move at

490
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 2: the nearest possible date. Otherwise, what's the point of promoting

491
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 2: that he had fourteen points in a loss against Wright State.

492
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,479
Speaker 2: So when I open up my social media and I

493
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 2: see you guys promoting underclassmen for what they're doing, doesn't

494
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 2: that say the same thing? Doesn't it say, Hey, this

495
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 2: kid's on the market and that's what we're selling. Again,

496
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 2: I'm telling you optics from my seat. Now you tell

497
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 2: me how I should feel about a premier seat.

498
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 4: It's interesting that you have that take.

499
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 3: Is it makes sense from your college coach perspective, where yeah,

500
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 3: when you have players or underclassmen or promoting their statss

501
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 3: and losses, so you think that's what we're doing.

502
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 4: Potentially that never crossed my mind.

503
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 3: Like, we have basically for all of our players, whether

504
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 3: they're seniors, whether they're underclassmen, whether they have eligibility or not.

505
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 3: We have standards for what constitutes a promotional post. Right,

506
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 3: if you're the high score in a game, if you

507
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 3: get a double double, if you get a career high.

508
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 3: We democratize it so that players can.

509
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 4: Never be like, well, you promoted his game and not

510
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 4: my game.

511
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 3: Where like, these are our standards, and if you pass this,

512
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 3: you're going to get a daily staff post.

513
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 4: Part of it is self promotion for our brand.

514
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: We know that players will then share that graphic on

515
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 3: their social media and other players will say, wow, my

516
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 3: agency doesn't do that.

517
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 4: That agency's posting highlights and all this cool stuff for

518
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 4: their guys.

519
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 3: They're proud of their guys, right, So self promotion for

520
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 3: the brand be self promotion for the brand, and that,

521
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 3: like I said, if we're promoting fit over profit, we're

522
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 3: not posting look how much money.

523
00:23:59,240 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 4: This guy has.

524
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 3: Where saying look we have Cam Fletcher at high point

525
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,200
Speaker 3: seems like an obscure flip fit, but he's gonna be

526
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 3: Conference Player of the Year because we are wicked good

527
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 3: at finding the right fit for our guys. And when

528
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 3: you keep seeing how big Cam Fletcher's doing, you're gonna think, wow,

529
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 3: we did a really good job placing players.

530
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 4: Right.

531
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 3: And the reality is we don't need need Socialpedia to

532
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 3: promote our guys because the entire transfer portal runs through

533
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 3: our office. Right, I've got a sick team of agents

534
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 3: who are all killers in the most beautiful, sensitive way

535
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 3: that every college coach. This morning, I had a high

536
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 3: major assistant in my office. Actually, I had to have

537
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 3: a high major assistant in my office. We don't need

538
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 3: social media to promote our guys. But it's funny. I

539
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 3: saw one agent I'm not gonna say who you know

540
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 3: who he is, I'll tell you offline last portal was

541
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 3: tweeting about his guys and he's like, this player is

542
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 3: available a mid major plus steel. And like, first off,

543
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 3: if you're an agent, all of your players are high

544
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:54,959
Speaker 3: major plus.

545
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 4: I don't hear their D two. They're high major plus, right, Like,

546
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 4: you can't understan tell your guy is a mid major

547
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 4: of plus.

548
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 3: You can say that on the phone if you want

549
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,479
Speaker 3: to find the right fit. Second off, what message does

550
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 3: that send your clients if you need Twitter to promote

551
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 3: your portal clients. The whole point of having an agents

552
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 3: that we have real relationships. I can get coaches on

553
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 3: the phone and find me the right fit. The only

554
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 3: time I go to Twitter to promote a client is

555
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 3: if I'm using the media to promote somebody who really

556
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 3: doesn't have anything. Maybe they hit a roadblock in their

557
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 3: career and I need to just like conjure up a

558
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 3: little bit more interest for him. Like we had a

559
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 3: guy this year who left the team and his transferring

560
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 3: midyear you know who he is. It's kind of an

561
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 3: obscure situation, so we need media to get the word out.

562
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 3: But if I have an underclassman who's dominating, I don't

563
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 3: need to post his Twitter stats every day. People are

564
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 3: going to know about him and we're gonna to have

565
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 3: conversations about it. And to the next point about our ethics.

566
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 3: I always have a schools calling me and saying, who

567
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 3: do you have in this year's portal, And I say,

568
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 3: you can see on social media who our current clients are, right,

569
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 3: the guys who replaced at those schools, and the new

570
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 3: guys were signing this year. I'll let you know when

571
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 3: they're season's over. I do not start promoting guys until

572
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 3: after the season's over and after they've had a conversation

573
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 3: with their coach, letting them know their intention, whether it's

574
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 3: a staying to stay at school or role in the portal.

575
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,159
Speaker 3: Second off, just because we're signing an under flass but

576
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 3: at a mid major, it's not a four Garne conclusion

577
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 3: that they're entering the portal. I tell every guy that

578
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: signs to this midyear, I say, before you enter the portal,

579
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 3: I'm going to get data for you, right I'm going

580
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 3: to talk to ten schools at a higher level than

581
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 3: yours and get evals, and I'm going to show you

582
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 3: those evals.

583
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 4: And if seven of those ten schools.

584
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 3: So you're not ready to make the jump, I'm going

585
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 3: to make sure you stay where you're at.

586
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 4: Now, if eight of those ten say yeah, you'd be

587
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 4: a high major starter. All right, let's rock and roll.

588
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 3: Now, we're getting real data from high majors letting us

589
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 3: know that you're ready.

590
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 4: It's not me.

591
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 3: Guessing or me saying I really believe in you, or

592
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 3: your dad saying he's the best player since sliced bread.

593
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 3: It's high major saying you're ready to make the jump.

594
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 3: Part of the reason why we've had so many success

595
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 3: with guys making the jump. Everybody who made the jump

596
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 3: before they jumped in the portal, we had ten evais

597
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 3: saying this guy's ready to make the jump. Right, So,

598
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 3: we don't need to promote guys. But I understand why

599
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 3: the optics would be that in reality, we're just promoting

600
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 3: a that we do a kick ass job for our

601
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 3: clients and being we're proud of our clients. The guys

602
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 3: that we post on social media are only guys who

603
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: weeded the placement. If I signed you when you're already

604
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 3: at the school, weave is not promoting your stats because

605
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 3: I can't take credit for those stats.

606
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 4: Because I didn't put you at that school.

607
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 3: If we post something on social media, it means we

608
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 3: did the placement and we're proud of that guy succeeded.

609
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: All right, here's the question.

610
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 2: There is an assumption from a lot of college coaches

611
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 2: that when agents connect with a player, if he's had

612
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 2: a good start to the season, he has good tape,

613
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 2: that there's like a shut it down mentality, right, which

614
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 2: is like, hey, if you're not perfect, don't play, don't

615
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 2: worry about it.

616
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 1: All all that can do is be bad film and

617
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: bad stats. Right, things aren't going your way. Just shut

618
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: it down. You're hurt or whatever.

619
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 2: Talk me through what that's like with you working with clients,

620
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 2: potential clients or current climate clients. When you know, first

621
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 2: ten games of the year, they they nail it and

622
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: they see the big dollar signs, and that's when all

623
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 2: of a sudden, now college coaches think this kid may

624
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 2: shut it down.

625
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 3: You're absolutely right that that is happening a lot, and

626
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 3: that players are asking their agents and their advisors, Hey,

627
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 3: I'm a little nick and Bruce, should I just shut

628
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 3: it down for the rest of the year. Now, what

629
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 3: I'm going to say now is going to sound like

630
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 3: total bs. It's going to sound like I'm just, you know,

631
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 3: thinking I'm.

632
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 4: Holier than now.

633
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 3: But the reality is the reason our company has been

634
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 3: so successful is that we operate athlete and that we

635
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: have good relationshs with college coaches, and that we hold

636
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 3: our players accountable. So there are multiple times to see

637
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 3: where players came to me and they're like, you know,

638
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 3: I'm not starting like I thought I was going to

639
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 3: and my wrist hurts.

640
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 4: Should I just read shirt for the rest of the year?

641
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 4: And every time I say, if.

642
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,719
Speaker 3: You are genuinely too hurt to play, I will support

643
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 3: a red shirt. If you are healthy enough to play

644
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,959
Speaker 3: and they're paying you X amount of dollars, you're going

645
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 3: to play, and if you decide not to play, you

646
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 3: cannot accept.

647
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 4: The money for the rest of the year. You have

648
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 4: to get that money back.

649
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 3: You can't take someone's money, pretend to be hurt and

650
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 3: red shirt and move on. That's called stealing. And like,

651
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: you have to have ethics. At a certain point, you've

652
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 3: got to draw a line. I have a player right now.

653
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 3: A few games ago he's getting paid uppers are half

654
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 3: million dollars. And you had like a nagging injury, and

655
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 3: we talked about it and I said, look, man, if

656
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 3: this injury is really so bad that you think you're

657
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: going to like tear an acl, then we have to

658
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 3: shut it down. But you know your body better than me.

659
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 3: And if you can go out there and play and

660
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 3: you're healthy enough to play, you got to do it.

661
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 3: They're paying a lot of money and they're counting on you.

662
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: Then the day that there has to be. Like I'm

663
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 3: a deeply religious person. I fear consequence from God more

664
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 3: than I fear consequence from man. So if I'm going

665
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 3: to cut a corner and help a guy cheat and

666
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 3: steal for his own personal benefit, I'm dealing with that

667
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 3: harmic retribution, and so is he. I'm saving that player

668
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 3: from paying that karmic debt later. And if you do

669
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 3: the right thing and you're paid to play, and you

670
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 3: play and you're healthy enough to play, God will reward

671
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 3: you for doing the right thing. Like I my job

672
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 3: is not only to help players make decisions, but to

673
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 3: help teach them how to make decisions. If you have

674
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 3: an agent that's telling you all that matters is money

675
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 3: and it doesn't matter.

676
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 4: Who you step on along the way.

677
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 3: You're teaching a young man to go about life that way,

678
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 3: and he's going to have a really tough life.

679
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 4: If you teach a player.

680
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, money matters, but also matters it's treated people right,

681
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 3: doing the ethnicity right thing, following your heart, following God,

682
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 3: treating the people around you well, and people who invested

683
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 3: you in you and people who are betting their season

684
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 3: on you to give them what you agree to right,

685
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 3: because they could have signed somebody else who would have

686
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 3: been loyal to them. If you teach them that framework

687
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 3: of thinking, maybe they lose a little money because they

688
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 3: don't get the red shirt year, but they're going to

689
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 3: go about life in a more successful way and at

690
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 3: the end of their life, they're going to look back

691
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 3: and a life will have treated them better. It's not

692
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 3: always thinking one step ahead, it's thinking two, three, four,

693
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 3: or five, ten, A million steps ahead. Steps ahead is

694
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: the after life right? And I all my agents at

695
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 3: my company. That's my job with them too. It's not

696
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 3: just to teach them how to negotiate each economics of basketball.

697
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 3: It's season about how to die young men and help

698
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 3: mold young men and show them how to go about

699
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: life in a way that's going to be conducive to

700
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 3: a successful, happy, healthy life. And I'm so proud of

701
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 3: my stafford doing that. Again, why did we have so

702
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 3: much success with our transfers this year because so many

703
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: guys were willing to turn down more money to go

704
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 3: to a place that's suited them better. And very few

705
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 3: agencies will advise guys to do that, but we will,

706
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 3: and that's why we succeed, and that's why we keep growing.

707
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 2: Last year there was that run on contracts right before

708
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 2: but July first, right right before the new ruling kind

709
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: of came into effect. What do you think the market

710
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 2: looks like this year?

711
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 3: That's going to be another hour we got to talk about.

712
00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 3: I mean basically football January second. I believe that when

713
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 3: the football portal opens, that's going to model what ours

714
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: is going to look like, right, because this year it's

715
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 3: been this whole thing of oh, well, it's just revenue

716
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 3: sharing money.

717
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 4: Everyone's only gonna.

718
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 3: Have you the power for level, Like at your level,

719
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 3: it won't be as effected, right because you guys aren't

720
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: hitting the reds share cap anyway, right, But at the

721
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 3: powerboard level, they're like, well, they're gonna hit the rev

722
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 3: share cap, so they're gonna have to lower their budgets

723
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 3: and only spend within reb share.

724
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 4: And then it's like, well, they're gonna spend within redshare,

725
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 4: but then they're gonna.

726
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 3: Have quote unquote true nil outside of the rev share

727
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 3: that they're gonna do through brands, but the CSC has

728
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 3: to clear it, right, So you're able to spend outside

729
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 3: the red share but not be collectives, and it's gonna

730
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 3: be limited. Now we see with football, LSU promised playing

731
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 3: kid them thirty million dollars budget. Well, their repshare is

732
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 3: gonna be like twelve or fifteen. Okay, they're gonna spend

733
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 3: a lot of money more at Penn State, Michigan, some

734
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 3: of these other new coaches, they're stepping in expecting thirty

735
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 3: forty million in spending, which is way above.

736
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 4: The red share cap. So we're gonna have to see

737
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 4: how football does it.

738
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 3: And if football just throws calls from the win and says,

739
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 3: screw it, we're spending with our collectives or spending with

740
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 3: our boosters.

741
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 4: We're not even clearing with the CSC. We're saying, screw you.

742
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 3: You're not making lsu A Bowl in eligible.

743
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 4: You're not telling Penn State the bowl and eligible. We're

744
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 4: gonna spend out we want.

745
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: You're not going to do anything about it, and if

746
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 3: you try to go to the ports, that might happen.

747
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 3: Or they're going to try to bundle these true NIL

748
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 3: packages through brands and supplement that way.

749
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 4: It's really tricky.

750
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 3: Because as an agent, if they say, hey, we're giving

751
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 3: your client your quarterback five million dollars, but four million

752
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 3: is going through these brands that have to get cleared

753
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 3: by the College Sports Commission, that's a really risky proposition.

754
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 2: Right.

755
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 4: So my guess is that somebody these football schools.

756
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 3: Throw caution of the win, start giving big contracts, don't

757
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 3: clear it through the College Sports Commission, and tell the

758
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 3: NCAA come get us.

759
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 4: The reality is, how many players.

760
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 3: Have missed a single game of college football or basketball

761
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 3: due to an NIL violation. The answer is zero. There's

762
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 3: no teeth to these rules. So I think football Portal's

763
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 3: going to throw caution of the wain. We're going to

764
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 3: see another spending frenzy, and that's going to model what

765
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: basketball is going to do. We just have to watch

766
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 3: closely and see what they do and then what the

767
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 3: repercussions are, which is might be.

768
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: None last thing, and we will have that hour long

769
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 2: on what the market looks like. The Big East in

770
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 2: this year that was supposed to be, you know, the

771
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: big REB share year. They had the biggest rev share,

772
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 2: Yet they've struggled the most in the non conference.

773
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is?

774
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,959
Speaker 3: I really think next year would have been that. Okay,

775
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 3: So to explain to the listeners who don't understand what

776
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 3: we're talking about, football schools, So every school has a

777
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 3: twenty point five million dollar rep share cap. Football schools

778
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 3: have to split down between football, basketball, other sports. So

779
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 3: if you're LSU and you have twenty point five million,

780
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 3: you assume fifteen million goes to football, you know, four

781
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 3: million goes to basketball and the rest of host dollar sport.

782
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 3: Big East has a twenty point five million dollar cap.

783
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 3: No other sports is split and no football to split

784
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 3: it with. So Saint Johns and Creighton can spend ten million,

785
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 3: eleven million dollars repshare. So what we said is when

786
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 3: we go to a true if we ever went to

787
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 3: a true REP share world, the Big East would be

788
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 3: these big spenders at the Atlantic ten with no football

789
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 3: be these big spenders, and the SEC and the Big

790
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 3: ten would really get hurt because they didn't care about football. Okay,

791
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: but because this past year, as you described, we had

792
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 3: the pre July first spending frenzy where we had players

793
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 3: getting million dollars wires in May to beat that deadline. Right,

794
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 3: you have this spending frenzy, and then you have the

795
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 3: revs share world. So we still are in a world

796
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 3: where the Big East didn't have a competitive advantage because

797
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 3: true revshare hadn't hit yet. Right, This upcoming year would

798
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 3: be the first year where the SEC, Big Ten, Big twelve,

799
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: what's the other league acc schools are limited by revshare

800
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 3: and the eight ten and the Big East get free spending.

801
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 3: And we'll see if that does give them a competitive advantage,

802
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 3: or if the other schools find enough workarounds that they

803
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 3: spend how they want. Anyway, I mean, that was the

804
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 3: big argument that I've always made as to why this

805
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 3: rev share capital never stick, because if it really stuck

806
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 3: to the letter of the law, to see a world.

807
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 4: Where Alabama and Georgia.

808
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 3: And LSU are have a three to four million dollar

809
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 3: basketball budget, and George Washington and George Mason and Richmond

810
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 3: and Dayton have a four to five million dollar budget,

811
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 3: and Creighton in Providence in Saint John's of a ten

812
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 3: million dollar budget. I'm like, we're not going to see

813
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 3: a world where Alabama's getting outbid by Ducaine.

814
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 4: It's the coaches made Oaks would lose his mind.

815
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 3: He's like, I worked my whole life to get beat

816
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 3: by Ducaine for a star recruit. No, we're going to

817
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 3: spend in the NCAY got to come do something about it,

818
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 3: and they're not going to do it. So I predicted

819
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,839
Speaker 3: that the Big East and a ten competitive advantage would

820
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 3: be the catalyst for that dam breaking, but I actually

821
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 3: think it's going to happen before that. The catalyst was

822
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 3: college football coaches getting new jobs with spending promises in

823
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 3: the football portal being before our portal, and then breaking

824
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 3: down the dam and us you know, kind of following

825
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 3: their need. But but but that Big East competitive vantage

826
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 3: I thought would be the catalyst because it was just

827
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 3: it was too much of an oversight when putting together,

828
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 3: which is so funny.

829
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 4: They put together this Core Act and the House Settlement,

830
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 4: this and that. Did they ever asked Dan p. No

831
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 4: one asked me for my insight.

832
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 2: With anybody, just like wait, hold on, wait wait wait

833
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: wait wait what about the Big East? What about the

834
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: A ten? How does that actually work? No, it's it's

835
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 2: it's fasting. But they have not yet found a way

836
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: to manage their money. And it's still an art finding,

837
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 2: you know, finding the right guys, keeping the right guys,

838
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 2: trying to build a culture.

839
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 3: Well to that point, the last thing I'll say on

840
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 3: this note you mentioned before guys getting checked out mid

841
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,280
Speaker 3: season or feeling like they have one foot.

842
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 4: Out the door.

843
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 3: Even in a spending free spending world, the key is

844
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 3: still culture. This key is still picking the right guys.

845
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 3: I've always respected. One name I'll get a shout out

846
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 3: to is Eric Ollen, New Mexico. Last year he had

847
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 3: his team at UCSD and I didn't know Eric, and

848
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 3: I went to see him play and I asked him

849
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,479
Speaker 3: how you have so many guys who bought it, were

850
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 3: like playing their role and happy to be there. He said,

851
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 3: In the recruiting process, I filter for character, I filter

852
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 3: for humility, I filter for guys who really didn't buy

853
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 3: into their role. And now you get a lot more

854
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 3: with a lot less, and even in a world where

855
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 3: guys the schools can spend all as much, it still

856
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 3: comes down to character, culture, commitment. And don't think that

857
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 3: the highest that the highest spending teams are alway gonna win.

858
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 4: I can tell you a number of teams right now

859
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 4: it's spend over ten million dollars walking to make the tournament.

860
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: You no, No, I get it. And I think Eric

861
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: does do a great job.

862
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: I do wonder how hard that becomes at New Mexico.

863
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: That that's been different, right? Can you carry that over?

864
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 2: It's it's the same thing people want to see with

865
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: Ben McCullum at Iowa. In the meantime, happy the holidays,

866
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 2: Happy New Year. And I love that you're worried about

867
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: karma with every basketball decision you make.

868
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 4: Every single decision. If I make a bad placement, it

869
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 4: keeps me up at night. I want every player to succeed.

870
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 4: I want them all to be happy.

871
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 3: Last Compa'll make on the Ben McCullum note, Bennett starts

872
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 3: George hemingson, I think of a D two coach.

873
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 4: Put him all my.

874
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 3: Staff, all American contributor, all American producer.

875
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 4: That's what we're trying to do.

876
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 3: What we find that Bennett starts as the world, where

877
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 3: we finded the Jeremy Densiss, we finded the two guys.

878
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 4: With high major hearts.

879
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 2: Hey, that was a great, great discussion with Dan Ponaman,

880
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: you know, because he joined us off off the rip.

881
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 2: I didn't get a chance to do a little bit

882
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 2: of an intro and an update. As we creep closer

883
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 2: and closer to New Year. My team plays our next

884
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: game January first, and yeah, I don't I wish I

885
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: had an answer for what happened when we lost to Campbell,

886
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 2: but there just was not the energy, uh and tenacity

887
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 2: there and a team for them that was tired and

888
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 2: traveled and hadn't shot the ball well at all.

889
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: The night before two.

890
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: And a half nights night and a half before shot

891
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 2: incredibly well. But we felt like we helped, that we

892
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 2: gave them energy and confidence and they played great. And

893
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 2: so what have we done? Kind of back to square one,

894
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 2: right back to the square run. And it's frustrating because

895
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: you don't know whether it's because they were mentally already

896
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 2: right for the break, whether it was some of the

897
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 2: guys who hadn't been playing as much, I don't know,

898
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 2: but it was very noticeable in the first couple of

899
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: possessions of the game, and yet we were still at

900
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 2: a five point lead in the first half, made some mistakes,

901
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 2: fell behind Foult a three point shooter on an horrendous call,

902
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 2: and we're never able to get back control at all

903
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 2: of the game. So what I what I continue to

904
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: learn is things on a daily basis, and this one

905
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 2: is an interesting one, is that it doesn't matter how

906
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 2: much rest them, how hard you practice, how they look

907
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 2: in practice.

908
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: Sometimes you just never know.

909
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: And I think the frustration for a lot of us

910
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 2: as coaches with this new system is we don't know

911
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 2: if some guys aren't playing as hard because well, they

912
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 2: think I'm gonna be elsewhere next year. I have good

913
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 2: tape some of these, Alrea, somebody's already interested. I'm good,

914
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: you know, when all we're trying to get is committed

915
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 2: connected guys to play together.

916
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: And play hard.

917
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 2: I'll say this about the Barreler situation. You know, we've

918
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: talked about it on the pods. We brought it over

919
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 2: Jonatan Levy last year. Part of it was a mistaken

920
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 2: that I played him too soon. I've heard people say

921
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,959
Speaker 2: it screws up your culture, it's not easy to bring

922
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: a guy over and to play him.

923
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: You have to find just the right player. He has

924
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: to have just the right mentality.

925
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:19,919
Speaker 2: You have to insert him at just the right time,

926
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 2: and you have to have the need for that player.

927
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: It can't just be because when guys lose minutes to

928
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: somebody who hasn't kind of earned it in terms of

929
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,799
Speaker 2: their respect and going through the tough times and going

930
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 2: through the tough practices. It can be hard on the

931
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: chemical makeup of a team. But you know, Scott has

932
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 2: such a void there in the middle that I'm sure

933
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:38,360
Speaker 2: he felt like I can go out and get a

934
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 2: grand man.

935
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 1: I don't blame Scott Drew. I don't.

936
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 2: I don't think there's I've seen people on social media

937
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 2: credit question the ethics of the decision, like what what ethics?

938
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 1: All you can do is have the guy.

939
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 2: If he wants to play in college, he has to

940
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 2: go through the elgibility process. If he becomes clear to play,

941
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 2: he gets into school, you can play them. If you

942
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 2: have a problem, you have the problem with the rules,

943
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 2: not with the coaches. Our job is to win basketball games.

944
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 2: And oh yeah, by the way, you gotta have good

945
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 2: people as well. I haven't heard anything bad about the

946
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 2: kid and his job is win basket and the coaches

947
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 2: jobs win basketball games. The player is eligible, then you

948
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 2: recruit them. Does it feel good to be recruiting pros

949
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 2: to play in college now? But as I as I

950
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 2: told you, there's this slippery slope where we're going to

951
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 2: allow guys that play professionally overseas to come over here.

952
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: Why can't we allow guys that play domestically professionally.

953
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 2: If they want to play in college play in college.

954
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:37,919
Speaker 2: Do I think it's a good look?

955
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: I don't.

956
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 2: The problem is if you shut it down, we say, hey,

957
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 2: we're not going to Once you decide to play professional basketball,

958
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 2: you're out in college, which is a fair rule has

959
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 2: to work.

960
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: For international players as well, has to.

961
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 2: And I don't know how you navigate that without without

962
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 2: going back to not taking nearly as many guys. You know,

963
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 2: we're lost in this proliferation of J League guys and

964
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 2: you know a couple of guys that have gotten you know,

965
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 2: been around NBA teams whatever. The biggest change is the

966
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 2: higher level foreign players. More and more foreign players have

967
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 2: infilstrated the game. And I think it's a good thing

968
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 2: because I think they're well coached, and they add a

969
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 2: lot to it, and they're bringing in more professional kind

970
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 2: of way of approaching the game. All those things are great.

971
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 2: All those things are great, But what's not great is

972
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:41,720
Speaker 2: that we have our arrows directed at coaches who aren't

973
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 2: violating any ethical, moral or written in SA rules. I

974
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 2: believe that if you don't like the rule, attack the rule.

975
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 2: I'm totally okay with that. And by the way, to

976
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: people including Dan Potaman, who are like, well, why why

977
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 2: didn't you, you know, do a little bit of something

978
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 2: back in the day. This is why this is Pandora's box.

979
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 2: Once it becomes opened, it becomes really really hard to

980
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 2: close unless you get anti trust legislation, which is why

981
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 2: they hired Charlie Baker to be the head of the NCAA.

982
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 2: And now he's got to get Congress to agree on something,

983
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 2: and once he does, this will be more stable. Hey listen,

984
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: if you like the podcast. If you don't like the podcast,

985
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 2: feel free to comment on it. You can also retweet it.

986
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 2: You can set it to a friend. You can hop

987
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 2: into the comment section as well. Remember this is the

988
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 2: Doug out Leab Show All Ball podcast. Passing on to

989
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 2: a friend and until next time, Happy New Year, happy holidays,

990
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 2: thanks for listening, and go Phoenix.