1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: I have this opportunity with my team to bring together people, 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: to give them a platform to connect with one of 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: the most influential, powerful cultural industries. It touches people all 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: over the place, and as an industry, we have a 5 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 1: responsibility and an opportunity to really change the world. Hey everyone, 6 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast 7 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: in the world. Thanks to each and every single one 8 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: of you that come back every week to listen, learn 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: and grow. Now today I get to host a very 10 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: special episode. I'm seated in Oxford, London at the Soho Farmhouse. 11 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: If you haven't been here before, it's a magical venue, 12 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 1: and especially what I'm here for is even more incredible. 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: I've been invited to speak at the Voices conference for 14 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: the Business of Fashion, and beyond that, I get to 15 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: sit down with the founder, the CEO, and the editor 16 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,279 Speaker 1: in chief of the Business of Fashion, Imran Ahmed himself. Imran, 17 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: thank you so much, first of all for organizing such 18 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: a beautiful event and for being here today on the podcast. 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: Thank you. The organization of the event comes down to 20 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: my brilliant team. I'm sure you've been meeting them in 21 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: all of the little nooks and crannies around what we 22 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,199 Speaker 1: call our campus. But we absolutely love putting this event together, 23 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: especially this year because it's been two years since we've 24 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: done Voices, and we think of it as like the 25 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: best way to bring our team together because we face 26 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,559 Speaker 1: so many challenges in making Voices happen. You know, there's 27 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 1: a lot of people to manage, a lot of things 28 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: to manage. In this year, of all years, we have 29 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: something at bof called the Voices Test, which is like 30 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: resilience in the face of adversity and rapid changes. And 31 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: you know, twenty four hours before we were arriving here 32 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: this year, they changed all the COVID restrictions, so we 33 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: had to adapt and be agile, and like, my team 34 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: is just awesome. It's all because of them. Yeah. Well, 35 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: what's even more special is everyone's really positive too, So 36 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: they're doing all this hard work, but whenever they're with 37 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: you or me, or with an individual at the conference 38 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: and the event, they've all been just so wonderful. So 39 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: congratulations to you and the team. I want to start 40 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: off because we are at Voices and I have been 41 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: absolutely blown away by every speaker on stage since day one. 42 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: The diversity of conversation the depth of storytelling. You know, 43 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: when I was first invited and you hear about the 44 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: business of fashion, you're thinking, oh, well, everyone's going to 45 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: be a fashion speaker, and then you're like, no, we're 46 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: talking about mushrooms. We're talking about roots Studios, which is 47 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: incredibly looking at fashion from a completely different angle. We're 48 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: talking about activism. Tell us about where the idea for 49 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: Voices came from and what you wanted it to be 50 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: when it first started, and how it's evolved. Yeah. I 51 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: think like most industries, there were already a series of 52 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: other industry conferences, and you know, at bof whenever we 53 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: do something new, we want to do it differently, we 54 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 1: want to add something to what's already there. We wanted 55 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: it to be disruptive because my observation was that, you know, 56 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: most of the fashion events that we have are just 57 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: fashion people, and therefore you have fashion people talking to 58 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: fashion people about fashion, which is a bit of an 59 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: echo chamber, right, And those kinds of conversations are absolutely important, 60 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: and they happen at Fashion Week, and they happen in 61 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: all sorts of you know, industry events. But fashion doesn't 62 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: live in a bubble. It doesn't exist outside, you know, 63 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: the intersections of other things that are going on in 64 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: the world, and especially now amid you know once in 65 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: a generation, you know, public health cis, you know, economic dislocation, heightening, 66 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: global inequality, a global reckoning around inclusion, racial equity, diversity. 67 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: You know, we are connected to everything that's going on 68 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: in the world. So our idea was, we need to 69 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: bring other voices into the room. And so it is 70 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: a conference about fashion in some ways because we touch 71 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: on all those topics. But we wanted to pierce that 72 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: echo chamber, and we wanted to bring other people inside 73 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:37,559 Speaker 1: the industry and help them kind of open the eyes 74 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: of the industry and also to help people understand the 75 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: power of fashion. So we have all these other people 76 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: that come inside and and kind of share their time 77 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: and their expertise with us. And one of the things 78 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: they always say to me when they leave is like, 79 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,720 Speaker 1: this is such a powerful industry. It's such a cultural 80 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: force in the world, and fashion has the power to 81 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: change things. So we set up Voices originally with that vision, 82 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: that idea that we wanted to disrupt the existing trade conferences. 83 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: And we don't call it a conference, we call it 84 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: a gathering and we wanted to bring other people in 85 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: and just create the kind of conversations that weren't happening enough. 86 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: And what happens is everyone, the non fashioned people go 87 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: away and they've learned so much about the industry and 88 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: they've met all these people, and the fashion people come 89 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: and they've also met the non fashioned people and it 90 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 1: just creates this incredible energy. Well, Iran, today, you're you know, 91 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: you're a fashionable gentleman. You're always in the world a 92 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: fashion But I want to go back to what I 93 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 1: ran was like growing up. I want to hear about 94 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: what your passions were, what your interests were, what you 95 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: were like as a teenager. You know, what is it 96 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: that you thought you were going to go out to do. 97 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: What were your aspirations as a teenager. I think my 98 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: aspirations as a teenager were in a way largely defined 99 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: by what other people expected of me. I grew up 100 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: in Canada, in Calgary. My parents moved from Kenya to 101 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: Calgary in the middle of the cold winter in nineteen 102 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: seventy four. In December. They were both the first in 103 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: their respective families to go to university, and my mom 104 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: was already pregnant and I guess they made a decision 105 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: that they just wanted me to have the best life. 106 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: And my parents, even before I was born, I think 107 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 1: they were already thinking about what the future they wanted 108 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: for me, And as immigrants to a new country with 109 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: five hundred dollars and great education, they really believed in 110 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: the power of education. And they came to Canada with 111 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: a view to kind of setting up themselves for a 112 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: new life. And you know, that was a massive risk 113 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: and change for them. Wow. And four months later I 114 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: was born. So they moved from Kenya to Calgary. And 115 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: I think the day I was born or someone told me, 116 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: this kid will go to Harvard one day. And I 117 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: was named Imran, after Imran Khan because my dad was 118 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: a cricket player. And so I think growing up, I 119 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: always felt like these expectations, you know. And I didn't 120 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: turn out to be athletically gifted in any way, but 121 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: I was always driven towards a specific path. You know, 122 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: in many immigrant families when they first moved to the West, 123 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's a doctor or a lawyer or engineer. 124 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: And I think when I was a teenager, I felt 125 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: like those were the only options. So at school, I 126 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: was I was really really nerdy. I used to get 127 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: up at four or five in the morning to do 128 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: my homework or to study, or to prepare for tests. 129 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: You know. My mom sometimes used to wake up in 130 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: the morning to quiz me and to work with me. 131 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: She was she was a teach my father was an architect, 132 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: and you know, they really just invested in my education. 133 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: And I guess I felt this like pressure or expectation 134 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: that I had to go down one of these paths. 135 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: In the evenings, however, I was a really creative kid, 136 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: and I started. My first foray into the performing arts 137 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: was as a singer. I was in a boys cut 138 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: choir from the age of eight nine. Yeah, all boys choir, 139 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: and we literally sang like this. And then I got 140 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: into public speaking, into drama, into musical theater, and so 141 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: my days were really really nerdy and academic, and my 142 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 1: evenings were filled with extracurricular activities that were rich with creativity. 143 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: But when it came to making decisions about my education, 144 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 1: I mean maybe I kind of knew that there wasn't 145 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: really an opportunity for me in the performing arts. You know, 146 00:08:54,640 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: as a very small brown person like that, there weren't 147 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: roles for me, and there weren't opportunities for me. You know, 148 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: getting cast and things was very, very hard. You know. 149 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: I was always cast as like the impish, mischievous puck 150 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: or mad hatter, you know, in like plays and stuff. 151 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: But like to have a real career in the performing 152 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: arts was like a risk that I couldn't afford to take, honestly. 153 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: So I was really interested in business, an entrepreneurship, and 154 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 1: so in a conversation with my father, I remember, we said, well, 155 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: what I should study business? So I studied. I moved 156 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: to Montreal when I was eighteen years old, and I 157 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: studied at McGill University and I studied for a Bachelor 158 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: of Commerce. And you know, I loved I loved my 159 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: time at McGill, in part because it was this global university. 160 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 1: There were people from all over the world. And I'd 161 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: spent my first eighteen years only in Calgary, you know, 162 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: and we didn't travel that much internationally. We did lots 163 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: of road trips in North America. But McGill was my 164 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: first time being really immersed in a truly international, global 165 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: environment and it found it so enriching. And Montreal as 166 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: a city was hugely inspiring to me. It's a bilingual city, 167 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: and I really wanted to learn French. You know, I've 168 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: been learning French and since like elementary school, because in 169 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: Canada you get trained in English and French. But I 170 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: didn't really speak French. So being in Montreal gave me 171 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 1: this opportunity to immerse myself. And one of the world's 172 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: was like truly bilingual cities where you know, the locals 173 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: can switch from one language to another like this. And 174 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: I remember sitting in a mall one day, the food court, 175 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: and there were these two women sitting next to me, 176 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: and they were going back and forth in a conversation 177 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: and quoting. They were speaking in English and quoting in French, 178 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: and you know, I just I was like, I want 179 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: to be able to do that. So when it came 180 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: time to graduation, I actually decided to stay in Montreal. 181 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:03,320 Speaker 1: I worked in management consulting in a fully bilingual environment. 182 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: All my friends left. It was great to be still 183 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: in Montreal, but it was obviously not the same when 184 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: all my college friends had left and gone to like 185 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: New York, in Paris and London and Toronto and other places. 186 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: So after a couple of years, my dream was to 187 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: work in Europe and I asked my company for a 188 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: transfer to Europe. So I want to live in Paris 189 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 1: or London. I want to do that. McKinsey right. This 190 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: was at Deloitte. I worked at a small strategy consulting 191 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: group that they used to own called Braxton Associates. And 192 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: they said, well, you know you're twenty two years old, like, 193 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: we only transfer people if they have unique skills that 194 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: you can't find in London, and you know, you're way 195 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: too young. So at that point I was thinking about 196 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: applying for business school, and you know, I managed to 197 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: get an internship slash fellowship with a micro credit organization 198 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: in Bangladesh, and I started making plans to move to Bangladesh. 199 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: And actually the day I was planning to quit, the 200 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: managing director of the office, Bob Leach was his name, 201 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: he came up to my office, which was very unusual 202 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 1: because I would usually go down to his office and 203 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: he said, it, Ron, I found a way to move 204 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: you to London. And you know, it turned out that 205 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: there was someone in the London office who wanted to 206 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: move to North America and we were just going to swap. 207 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: It was the first time in my life I faced 208 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: a real professional dilemma. I had kind of convinced myself 209 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: that going to work in Bangladesh was going to be 210 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: really enriching. It was going to be great for my 211 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: business school application because it would show a different, you know, 212 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: professional experience. But I'd always wanted to live in London. 213 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: And by this point my family, my parents had moved 214 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 1: back to Kenya, and so I'd been traveling through London 215 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: to visit them in Nairobi. And you know, I'd spend 216 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: like three or four days in London, you know, stop 217 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: office on the way, and there was something about the 218 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: city that I just I remember the first time I 219 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: was like driving down Pall Mall in London. I was 220 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: in the back of the cab and I was like, 221 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 1: oh my god, Yeah, you know, it's like one of 222 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: these things you only see on TV. And I called 223 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: one of my professors, Professor and Hale, and I told her, 224 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: I don't know what to do, like, I feel like 225 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: it's you know, I could go to Bangladesh or I 226 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: could go to London. And she said, Amon, go where 227 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: your heart is telling you to go. You have the 228 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: rest of your career to give back. Because I really 229 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: wanted to go you know, and do this service in Bangladesh, said, 230 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: you have the rest of your life to do that. 231 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: If your instinct, if your heart is telling you to 232 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: go to London, just go to London. And so I 233 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: slept on it and I was like agonizing over this decision. 234 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: And I woke up one morning and Professor Hale was right. 235 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: She said, you know, I just my heart was saying 236 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: go to London. So that's that's how I ended up. 237 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: That's amazing. And you've you just told me before we 238 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: went live, you've been living in Lone for twenty years now. Yeah. 239 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: So I first moved here in nineteen ninety nine. Yeah, 240 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: and I ended up staying here for a year with Deloitte, 241 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: and it was amazing because I got to work in 242 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: Switzerland and Norway and Holland and all over the place, 243 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: all these countries I'd never been to. But I was 244 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: also applying for business school and I managed to get 245 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: into business school about six or seven months after I 246 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: moved to London. And I've been traveling so much that 247 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: I actually didn't end up spending much time in London. 248 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: And at that point I quit my job and started 249 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: planning to go to business school. So Yeah, that was here, 250 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: and then after business school I moved back. Yeah, what 251 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: do you think were the biggest skills or gifts you 252 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: took away from business school? I think that there's a 253 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: lot of conversation today about education, higher education, graduations, postgraduate, 254 00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: but as someone who actually went to business school, what 255 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: were the things that you felt you really took away 256 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: in terms of skills that you wouldn't have got anywhere else. 257 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: You know, honestly, it really wasn't about the skills. I 258 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: had studied business in undergrad and you know, um, HBS 259 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 1: has a really different way of teaching. They have a 260 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: case study method, you know, So I'd studied from textbooks 261 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: in undergrad and you know, HBS was offering me a 262 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: different way to study business. And it was great, you know, 263 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. You know, there were elements of 264 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: it that were you know, different, and I learned stuff, 265 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: But honestly, business school is not for me. It wasn't 266 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: about the classroom. It was about again the people, you know, 267 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: and I found it really hard there at first. You know, 268 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: it's a really intense place and if you do the 269 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: Myers Briggs test, familiar with it, yes, And you know, 270 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: I think like seventy percent of the you know, incoming 271 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: class the year I started were EMTG, the so called 272 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: natural born leaders. So you have a lot of like 273 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: really similar driven people sitting in a classroom every day. 274 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: It creates, you know, it creates in some ways a 275 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: very interesting positive energy to drive you to be the 276 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: best you can be. But it's also in some ways 277 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: it's very limiting, and um, you know, I found at 278 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: times it was really hard. And you know, while I 279 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: was there, nine to eleven happen, and as a as 280 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: a Muslim, you know, it was a really eye opening 281 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: experience because you know, you know, HBS is like a community, 282 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: you know, it's a community of people, and you know, 283 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: happened in September obviously, and I was in my second year, 284 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: and I remember thinking about all of the first years 285 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: I had just arrived from Algeria or Egypt or Saudi Arabia, 286 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: you know, Muslims from all over the world, and they 287 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: were in the US, you know, for the first three 288 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: or four weeks of their business school career, and this 289 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: like horrible tragedy has happened. And so a bunch of 290 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,040 Speaker 1: us gathered all the Muslims on campus together to just 291 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: say you know, like this is a really supportive community, 292 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: and by that point there had already been some instances 293 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: of extreme Islamophobia and campus. You know, people were saying 294 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: really misjudged, ill informed, ignorant, hateful things, and you know, 295 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: you have to remember it was a really it's a 296 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: really charged environment, was really emotional time, and so of course, 297 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: like everyone was feeling, you know, there were it was 298 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: h Harvard Business School. There were so many connections of 299 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 1: people in the those classrooms, professors teaching in those classrooms, 300 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: and that in the trade World Trade Center, and so like. 301 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 1: Of course, it was a very emotional situation. But for 302 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: those of us who were Muslim, was also really really 303 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: difficult because there was some really really unfortunate things that 304 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: were said. And you know, I realized and we said 305 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: to the incoming class that our responsibility is to educate people, 306 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: you know, And you know, there's one moment I was 307 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: in a classroom and we were taking this class called 308 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: the Moral Leader, and every week we would have a 309 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: conversation about a significant moral dilemma faced by a protagonist 310 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: in a fictional book or a situation that happened in 311 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: the world, and the professor on this particular Monday, you know, 312 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: a week or so after the terrorist attacks, decided to 313 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: turn the focus into the current situation. And what that 314 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:58,479 Speaker 1: unleashed in the classroom was, you know, really hateful things, 315 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: you know. And one person in the classroom said, you know, 316 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: my friend who's in my section, you know, I'm worried 317 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 1: he's going to blow up the school. Another person down 318 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: the road from me was said, you know, Islam is 319 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: a religion that teaches every teaches people to kill Jews. 320 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 1: And I could, like, I could feel myself really shaking 321 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: because my instinct. I got up and I just left, 322 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: you know, and I remembered that conversation I had without 323 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: incoming class. I was in the hallway and I left it. 324 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: I was like shaking. So I went back into the 325 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: classroom and everyone's hands were up, and I realized I 326 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: was the only Muslim person in that whole class. So 327 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 1: I raised my hand and I just, you know, I 328 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: just spoke really from the heart. I can't remember exactly 329 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: what I said, but you know, I just felt like 330 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: it was my responsibility to talk. And so I came 331 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: to this whole story just to say that, you know, 332 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: even at a place like Harvard Business School, you have 333 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: these like highly educated people, really well traveled, worldly you know, 334 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: ultimately the experience is about the community of people were 335 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: with And after I spoke, the whole class erupted into applause, 336 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,119 Speaker 1: you know, and for the rest of the day, you know, 337 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: people were just showing up at my house that I 338 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: share with my class thought me, it's just to come 339 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: and like it was very supportive in the end. But 340 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: you know this, you know, business school was just really hard. 341 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: You know, it's not you know, it's not easy. I 342 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: treasure the people that were there, that were you know, 343 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: there to support me. And to this day, you know, 344 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: my friends from university and my friends from HBS, they're 345 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: my community that you know, that hold me out up, 346 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 1: that pushed me. And so it's really not about the classroom. 347 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: It's about you know, the community. Yeah, and Maron, thank 348 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: you so much for opening up about that and sharing that, 349 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: because as you were saying it, I can only imagine 350 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: how hard that is to reconcile internally, not just the 351 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: classroom or not just the conversations or the moral leader discussion, 352 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: but to deal with it internally while you're in a 353 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: place like that. Yeah, I've never I've never told that 354 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,239 Speaker 1: story before, because I think one of the things that 355 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: happens in our career so looking I went off to 356 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: after business school, you enjoined McKinsey in London. I went 357 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: back and I think one of the things that I've 358 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: realized over these last eighteen months or so since we 359 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: were all locked down, is that I've just internalized a 360 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: lot of this. I've never really understood how it has, 361 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: you know, impacted me. And one of the commitments I 362 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,199 Speaker 1: made to myself over these last months is that, you know, 363 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 1: I just need to be more open about it because 364 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: these these moments, like when you look back in your life, 365 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 1: there's these certain defining moments that you're you're changed, And 366 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: that moment that I just talked to you about, like 367 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: that was the moment that really shifted me, you know, 368 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: but I never talked about it. What do you think 369 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 1: changed about you behavior wise or attitude of wise or 370 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: approach wise from that day? What did you do internally? Now? 371 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: As as you're saying you held onto it, it it feels 372 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: like something you didn't share, But how did you process 373 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: it or did you not process it at aol until 374 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: more recently? I mean, I think it wasn't a moment 375 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: of processing. It's been years, but really I think a 376 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: lot of that processing has happened in the most recent 377 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: period because you know, I was sitting at home and 378 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: like everybody, I was reflecting on my purpose. You know, 379 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: why am I here, what am I doing? Why am 380 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: I working so hard? And what am I working towards? 381 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 1: And one of the things that's really happened in my 382 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: role here at the Business of Fashion is I've found 383 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: myself in a position of influence. I found myself in 384 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: a public position, and I've realized that as a gay person, 385 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: as a Muslim person, as a brown person, as a 386 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: Canadian with East African roots and Indian heritage, there's actually 387 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people who see themselves a part of 388 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:58,640 Speaker 1: themselves in me, and there's not that many of us 389 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: in the fashion industry, certainly not, you know, in a 390 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 1: position that I'm so privileged to have now. So I've 391 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: just been thinking a lot more about well, what am 392 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: I going to do with this position? That's really a 393 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: lot about what Voices is for. You know, That's why 394 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: we're here, because I have this opportunity with my team 395 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: to bring together people, to give them a platform to 396 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: connect with one of the most influential, powerful cultural industries 397 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 1: that touches people all over the place, and as an industry, 398 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: we have a responsibility and an opportunity to really change 399 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: the world. Fashion imagery spreads everywhere now with social media, 400 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: your fashion needs to be this like really secretive little world. 401 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: All of everything was kind of contained. And as an outsider, 402 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: you know, management consulting background to come into this industry 403 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: and be able to learn from everybody, you know, through 404 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: all the interviews I've done all over the over the years, 405 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: like every person I've met has taught me something, and 406 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 1: now I have an ability to use all of that 407 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: and connect that with my curiosity and my interest in that, 408 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: you know, being part of a global community, you know, 409 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: the one that I hadn't been guild, the one I 410 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: had at HBS, and the one that we've built here 411 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 1: at bof Like all of these things are threads through 412 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: my life. And so the processing has happened over a 413 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: very long period of time, but I think in the 414 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: last twelve months or so, it's really become much more sharpened. 415 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: And that's the session that you know, we're going to 416 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: have this this afternoon with you is like everyone's going 417 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: to be talking about how their purpose has been either 418 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: shifted or sharpened or focused because of this period that 419 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: we've lived through. Absolutely, thank you again for sharing that. 420 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: It's It's truly beautiful being drawn into your personal experience. 421 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: And I love that you described it as a thread 422 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: because it just shows how interconnected you feel it. Early 423 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: is often people feel their life is like a series 424 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: of pivots, and You've had a lot of pivots in 425 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: your life, but you don't see them as pivots. You're 426 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: seeing them as a thread. I wonder when you do 427 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: make the transition from successful McKinsey consultant to starting the 428 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: business of fashion being the authoritative voice in the industry, 429 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 1: tell us about what gave you the courage Again, I 430 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: feel like you're just one of these people that's constantly 431 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: had and I have a lot of these questions from 432 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: my community, my audience. I have questions like this from 433 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: private clients I work with and people that I've coached 434 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: in the past. A lot of people struggle with transition. 435 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 1: So whether it was your transition to McGill, your transition 436 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: to London instead of Bangladesh, then London to HBS, then 437 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: HBS to McKinsey, then McKinsey. You know, there's many transitions 438 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: here and then you take the biggest one, which seems 439 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: to be where you're feeling your purpose is being fulfilled. 440 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: Tell us about what gave you the courage to make 441 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: that transition from a phenomenal career which most people would 442 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: dream to have at a place like McKinsey, but then 443 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: to be able to make that I find that really fascinating. 444 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: It's interesting to use the word courage because I didn't 445 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: feel courageous. I felt I just I was really unhappy. 446 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: And without denigrating McKinsey, because McKinsey is an incredible institution 447 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: with deeply held values. It's flawed like every organization, but 448 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: walking into those doors every day, I felt like I 449 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: was leaving a lot of myself at home. And you know, 450 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: it goes without saying I was leaving all my creative 451 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: side at home. You know, my power point slides, they 452 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: were very pretty. That was my outlet. But there was 453 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: some professional feedback. You know, McKinsey loves feedback. You get 454 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: feedback after every meeting, you get feedback after every project. 455 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: To get feedback every six months, and in some ways 456 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: that's really helpful. But some of the feedback I was getting. 457 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 1: It's basically like they said, I didn't have gravitas. I've 458 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: been thinking about this a lot recently. They said, well, 459 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: you don't have gray hair, so you need to be 460 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 1: less expressive. I use my hands a lot. I'm a 461 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: very expressive person. I'm an ant. That's my theater side. 462 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: And then one day someone said to me, what did 463 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: you feel more comfortable if you were a tie and 464 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 1: a blue shirt? And there was one meeting I was 465 00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: in and everyone was was all men who had gone 466 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: to Oxford or Cambridge, and they were all wearing checked shirts. 467 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: And they realized that the checks on their shirts were 468 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: the same, were kind of the size of the checks 469 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: on their shirt were commensurate with their tenure at McKinsey. 470 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: And they all got up in a row and they 471 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: lined themselves up, and I was sitting down at the table, 472 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: and I've been thinking about that moment and if that's 473 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: not a moment of uthering because I was wearing an 474 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: orange shirt. I was a brown, gay Muslim guy at McKinsey, 475 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: and these were all like straight white man And basically 476 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: what I've learned over the last few months when I 477 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: realized that it was a very coded language that was 478 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: being given to me to tell me to not be myself. 479 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: And I know that now, but back then, all I 480 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 1: was feeling was pain. And so I wrote them a 481 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: EMO and I asked for a sabbatical. And someone came 482 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: up to me in the New Delhi airport and he 483 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: came up to me, and I was on my way 484 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: to Bangladesh actually to go visit a friend of mine 485 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: who was on that same program that I was thinking 486 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: about doing many years back. And he came up to 487 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: me and he said, I've been observing you. I have 488 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: some things to tell you about your life. And I 489 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 1: thought it was one of those quacks, right. I was like, 490 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: I don't have any money. I'm leaving. My rupees are gone. 491 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: He said, no, I don't want your money. Just sit 492 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: down with me for five minutes. And he said to me, 493 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: I want to talk to you. And a few minutes 494 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: later he said, you're not listening to me. Say yes, 495 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: I am. So he took a piece of paper and 496 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: he wrote something down, crumpled it up, and he put 497 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: it into my hand. He said, hold this in your hand. 498 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: He said, I want you to tell me your favorite color. 499 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 1: I was like, I don't have a favorite color. I 500 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: was in such a negative place. I said, I don't 501 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: have a favorite color. But McKinzie told me to wear 502 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: blue shirts blue. He said, what's your favorite flower. I'm 503 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: not really a flower person, or I wasn't back then, 504 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: and my cousin's wife had calla lilies in her bouquet. 505 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: So I said lily. And then he wrote down my 506 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: name and he put one, two, three, four or five 507 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: over the letters of my name, and he said, what's 508 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: your favorite number? And I picked number three because right 509 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: in the middle, and I like symmetry. He said open 510 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: your hand. I opened my hand, and the little paper 511 00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: that he'd given me five minutes earlier said blue lily three. 512 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: And he said, now, will you listen to me? And 513 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: I spent an hour talking to that man, and he 514 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: said a lot of really crazy things, but the one 515 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: thing he said to me was you need to practice meditation. Wow. 516 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: And you know, in my culture I'm in his smiling Muslim, 517 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: we practice something called bundigee. And my grandfather used to 518 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: wake up every day at four in the morning and 519 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: he used to practice bundigi And whenever I tried to 520 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: practice meditation, I could never do it, but it stuck 521 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: with me. And then through a conversation with one friend 522 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: and then another friend, everything pushed me towards something called 523 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: hipposita meditation. So I wrote this memo to McKinzie explaining 524 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,320 Speaker 1: that he needed a sabbatical. I was feeling deeply unhappy. 525 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: I wasn't sure I wanted a career in the firm, 526 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: and I wasn't going to be able to think about 527 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,479 Speaker 1: this properly if I was working as hard as I 528 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: was working. Everything at McKinzie was done with memos. So 529 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: I had to make a business case for why they 530 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: wanted me to take this time off, and they gave 531 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: me the time off, and I found myself in South 532 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: Africa doing bit positive meditation, which is ten days of silence. 533 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: And that's when everything changed because I learned how to meditate, 534 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: and I won't I mean, a whole other conversation that 535 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: we can have one day is that experience, because it's 536 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: like but I flew from Cape Town to Nairobi and 537 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: I sat down with my parents and I said, I've 538 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: done everything that you thought I should do, and you've 539 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: given me this amazing education, and you've given me everything 540 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 1: you could possibly give me, but I'm so unhappy. I 541 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 1: need to try something different. And they were really worried 542 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: about me because obviously I was just like overachieving kid, 543 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden I was in South Africa 544 00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: in the middle of a force meditating. I mean, they 545 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: were worried that I was going to turn up in 546 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: saffron robes or something and like, and I know you 547 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: were a monk. So I did that, yeah, And they said, okay, 548 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,359 Speaker 1: we just want you to be happy. Yeah, And that's 549 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: when everything switched in. Then one of the realizations I 550 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: had as part of that whole sabbatical, I started talking 551 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: to people in fashion, music and failing. I wanted to 552 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: work in a creative industry. And you know, when I 553 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: was a young, young young person, I used to watch 554 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: this television show called Fashion File, which was hosted by 555 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: this man named Tim Blanks. I was on every Saturday, 556 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 1: and I just there's something about that show that I 557 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: always was so curious about because Tim used to be 558 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: in Milan, in Paris and London, all these places, all 559 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: these interesting people, and like there was a business, but 560 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: it was also creative, and so I was like, I 561 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 1: just I feel like drawn to this industry, and so 562 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: a lot of time when young people say like, how 563 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: do you know what you're passionate about? I always say, like, 564 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: what were you? What were even drawn to when you 565 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:06,239 Speaker 1: were a child, before anyone told you what your path 566 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: should be, before you understood the expectations of society or 567 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: other pressures. What was what we're like? It's inexplicable what 568 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: we're drawn to as children, because it's purely intuition. And so, um, 569 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: I quit my job at McKinsey, and that's what my 570 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,640 Speaker 1: journey into the fashion industry began. And well on that 571 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:37,359 Speaker 1: spectacular Honestly, that is so beautifully shared and there's so 572 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: many parts of it that I want to deep dive on. 573 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: I was going to be respectful of your time. So 574 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: it is exactly the time that we had promised to finish, 575 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 1: and I'm going to ask you to promise me that 576 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 1: we can do a part two another time, because I 577 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: feel like we just framed who you are and how 578 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: you got there, but I want people to hear about 579 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: what it happened after that, because we're in a really 580 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: beautiful space. So I just want to thank you from 581 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 1: the bottom of my heart for taking out the time 582 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 1: for opening up, for being so vulnerable with our community. 583 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: You know, both of us had I'd never have any 584 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: idea what I'm about to do one of these what 585 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: I'm about to learn. And I can honestly say that, 586 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: you know, everything you've shared with me today not only 587 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: has moved me, but I know it's going to move 588 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: my community. So I want to thank you. I appreciate you, 589 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: But I know that you've got a busy schedule, so 590 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to be respectful of your attack you and 591 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: We're going to find another time to complete the conversation. 592 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 1: Let's do that even after I'm back, and we'll schedule it. 593 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: We'll make it happy. Yeah, it's it was really special. 594 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 1: Thank you, Jay, and thank you for no one's really 595 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,800 Speaker 1: asked me those questions before. You know, like when you're 596 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: when you get in a position like this, what sometimes 597 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 1: happens is like the media creates this narrative around who 598 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: you are. And what I've realized over the last couple 599 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,720 Speaker 1: of years is there's a real gap in the way 600 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: the media has created the story of this overnight success 601 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,720 Speaker 1: and you know all the stuff and you know fashion 602 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: and yeah, just the names as well, like mcginsey the business. 603 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course, everyone, yes, every you know, everyone thinks, oh, 604 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: it must have been an absolute dream. Not it has 605 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,879 Speaker 1: been a dream, but it's a you know, dreams come, 606 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: dreams like the experience that I've had, they come with 607 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:31,800 Speaker 1: a lot of challenge and struggle, and you know it's hard, 608 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: you know, it's really hard. So I'm really grateful that you. Um, 609 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,399 Speaker 1: I didn't know what we're going to talk about either. 610 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 1: I just sat down and I had no idea what 611 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: we're going to discuss, but I wasn't. Yeah, thank you. 612 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: That was beautiful. Thank you.