WEBVTT - Karol Markowicz Show: The State of Young Relationships Today with Abigail Shrier 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:04.960 Hi, Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.160 There's an article that seems to be written every few 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:11.680 weeks now, and the latest is titled American women are 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:15.480 giving up on marriage and was in Saturday's Wall Street Journal. 0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:19.200 I'm not criticizing the genre. I obviously talk about this 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:23.040 topic maybe more than any other, and I appreciate that 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.759 these pieces are sounding the alarm. Just kind of think 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:30.360 they're not quite getting it right. Here's a quote from 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.960 the article. I'm financially self sufficient enough to do these 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:37.120 things by myself, said a woman they interviewed, a Boston 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:41.320 based accountant. I'm willing to accept being single versus settling 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.319 for someone who isn't the right fit. She sees her 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:47.199 plans for an independent futures, making the best of a 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.040 lousy situation. I don't want to sit here and say 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:52.879 I'm one hundred percent happy, but I feel happier just 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:57.360 accepting my reality. I'm mentally and emotionally a sense of peace. 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:01.760 She's only twenty nine. She's twenty nine, and she's given 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:06.000 up on finding her person. It's just depressing. But here's 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.480 the thing. At twenty nine, I was in a six 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.640 year relationship with someone who I did not marry. I 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:16.200 was certain, I mean one thousand percent sure, that I 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:18.240 didn't want to get married and I didn't want to 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.679 have kids. I started dating my husband the following year 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.480 when I was thirty, and we got married the year 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:29.119 after that. It changes so quickly. Why does a twenty 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:32.440 nine year old feel so despondent about her future? The 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:36.600 problem is the dating culture. If you talk to anyone 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:39.760 in it, well you feel extra grateful to not be 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:44.399 in it. But they use this language that's just become ridiculous. 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:48.160 Like I get what a situationship is, but giving it 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:51.240 a name as opposed to just like someone you're hooking 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.840 up with, makes it sound so much more important than 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:57.800 it is. As listeners have heard me say on this 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.800 show before, the problem is a decline in marriage, yes, 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:07.240 but it's a decline in all relationships, including friendships. The 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:11.560 top message that I get to this show is from 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.800 parents writing in about helping their kid, sometimes a teen, 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.480 sometimes a twenty something have more of a social life. 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.360 Something has definitely shifted for the worse. Listen to this 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.120 stat from the article the share of women age eighteen 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.079 to forty who are single, That is neither married nor 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.960 cohabitating with a partner was fifty one point four percent 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.920 in twenty twenty three, according to an analysis of census 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:41.040 data by the Aspen Economic Strategy Group. That's up from 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:43.880 forty one point eight percent in two thousand. I mean 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:47.480 a ten point jump in twenty years or so. And 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:51.680 that part about cohabitating is important. It's not just marriage 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:54.760 that people aren't participating in. It's not this piece of paper, 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:59.920 it's not the institution. It's everything. It's having relationships in general. 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:02.800 There are a lot of reasons for it, and a 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.239 lot of the articles and a lot of the research 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:09.320 focuses on the financial more than anything else. Women are 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:13.600 succeeding at previously unheard of levels. Men aren't, women want 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:17.240 to marry up, etc. But is that what you're hearing 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.800 from real people in your life who are trying to 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:23.040 find someone. It's not at all what I'm hearing. I'm 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.280 hearing that women can't find a man who will be faithful, 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:29.200 and men say they can't find a woman who isn't 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:33.800 in two material things. Women say men don't ask any 0:03:33.880 --> 0:03:37.560 questions about themselves on dates, so a woman will ask 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.480 him about his family, about his job, about his hobbies, 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.320 and he won't say a word asking her in return, 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:47.000 He'll just answer her questions. Men say that women expect 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:50.560 them to carry conversations and interactions. I get that those 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:55.000 things are diametrically opposed. But I hear both of these perspectives, 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:57.680 and these are all things that I've heard multiple times. 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:01.240 We're missing the forest for the trees. It's not that 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:04.240 women are focused on their jobs. It's that they are 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.160 focused on their jobs because they can't find a man. 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:09.760 I'd love to hear from listeners on this. Am I 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.720 right is the whole She's just a career woman, a 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.520 red herring. Let me know what you think. Thanks for listening. 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.839 Coming up my interview with Abigail Schreier. But first, after 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:24.520 more than a year of war, terror and pain in Israel, 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:29.040 the need for security essentials and support for first responders 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.880 is still critical. Even in times of ceasefire. Israel must 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:36.320 be prepared for the next attack, wherever it may come from. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.680 As Israel surrounded my enemies on all sides, the International 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:44.520 Fellowship of Christians and Jews has supported and will continue 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:48.360 to support the people of Israel with life saving security essentials. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:52.479 Your gift today will help save lives by providing bomb shelters, 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:58.359 armored security vehicles and ambulances, firefighting equipment, flack jackets and 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:02.480 bulletproof vests, and so much more. Your generous donation today 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.279 will help ensure the people of Israel are safe and 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:07.839 secure in the days to come. Give a gift to 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:12.600 bless Israel and her people by visiting SUPPORTIFCJ dot org. 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:18.120 That's one word, SUPPORTIFCJ dot org or call eight eight 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:23.440 eight four eight eight IFCJ. That's eight eight eight four 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:28.000 eight eight IFCJ eight eight eight four eight eight four 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:34.280 three two five, And Welcome back to the Carol Marcowitz 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:39.000 Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is Abigail Shreier. Abigail 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.640 is contributing editor at The Free Press and the author 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.560 of two best selling books, Irreversible Damage, The Transgender Creates, 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:49.039 Seducing Our Daughters and Bad Therapy, Why the Kids Aren't 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.080 Growing Up. Abigail is also one of my all time 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.600 favorite people. Hi, Abigail, so nice to. 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.000 Have you on. Oh it's great to be here, Carol, 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:57.839 great to talk to you. 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:01.599 So I feel like my question two has to be 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:04.040 why do you do it? Why do you do this? 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.720 Why do you write controversial books that are going to 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:11.920 bring you, you know, nasty hate mail when and here's 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:15.480 the thing, I think you are amazing, brilliant, but you're 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.520 also a fantastic writer. Like a lot of people in 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.360 our world are smart, but they don't have a beautiful 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.360 writing style. You could be writing about anything, but you're 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.480 choosing to go into the lines. 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:30.520 And why, Well, thank you. That's very kind of you 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:32.960 to say. I mean, I write about what interests me, 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.320 and I write about things where I don't know the 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:40.120 answer to the question. And you know, starting out with 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:42.800 you know, irreversible damage. A reader wrote to me to 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.839 tell me about this sudden spike and transgender identification among 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.400 teenage girls, and no one was at the time willing 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.120 to write about it, and I wanted to know if 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.680 she was right, and so it sort of took me 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:01.560 on an investigative journey. But it wasn't you know, provocation 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:04.800 wasn't the point. It was really sort of getting getting 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.279 to the answer. And I like that. I mean, I 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.960 like getting to the answer. I always feel that I 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.920 feel personally much safer in a world where I feel 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.600 like I have full information and I know what's going on. 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:21.280 And the truth is more than sort of public opprobrium. 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:25.480 Things that worry me is really not knowing or being fooled, 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.680 and those things actually do scare me. So you know, 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.280 you sort of have to go with who you are 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:37.600 in life, I think, especially in your profession, and you 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.520 know this, the job sort of suits me, it just does. 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:45.080 It does. But you're so not like you're very mild 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:49.480 mannered and just a calm, rational person. I mean your 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.800 books are very common rational too, But I think that 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:55.160 the hate at you is not And I don't know, 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:58.520 I worry about you in that way just because like 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:01.240 it's not like you don't but you don't need it. 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:05.600 You don't need that kind of response, and yet you're 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:08.840 going out there and doing it anyway. I'm very proud 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:09.680 of you, obviously. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:11.480 I think that that's, you know, the way to be. 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.360 I don't know necessarily that I have that. 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:18.680 So people get angry with me because I'm effective. That's 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.000 what makes them so angry. So I think if I 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:26.440 were more provocative or extreme or ungrounded or unfounded and 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:28.400 things I had to say, I would get a lot 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:31.640 less hate and I would be more ignored. And the 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:34.840 reason that I get attention is because I, you know, 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:36.920 try to craft things in a way that will be 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:41.080 effective and well grounded and therefore hard to ignore. So 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.880 you know that that makes some activists angry who are 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.400 trying to, you know, keep the facts from getting to light. 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:52.160 I really think that's sort of their problem. And I, 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:54.800 you know, I leave the rest up to the public, 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:56.880 but you know, I'm going to keep doing my job. 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:01.360 What was your path here? How did you get your start? Oh? 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.880 So that's a great question. So I, you know, always 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.079 did journalism high school. I was a stringer for the 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:11.280 Wall Street Washington Jewish Week and you know, through college 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:15.520 and then I I was working at the Washington Monthly. 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.240 And I got the advice from some of my editors. 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:22.240 You know, journalists are so often diletants. They don't you know, 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:24.760 you have to know about everything, but you never know 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.040 anything deeply. You should really try to get a PhD 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:31.440 or learn something deeply. And I thought, well, I wasn't 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:33.080 sure I wanted to do a PhD. I did some 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:37.200 graduate life. He was drastic. Yeah, it's drastic. But one 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:39.800 thing they said that did scare me. It wasn't anything 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:41.560 they said, actually, it was something they did. And that 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:45.120 was that my editor, one of my editors. She was 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:47.680 this beautiful, young, very talented editor, and I think she 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.040 was about twenty five at the time, and she was 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:52.240 going out to dinner with this sixty five year old 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.000 man who was rich, just so he would buy her dinner, 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:59.280 because the editors were so poor at the Washington Monthly 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.920 that they would base do anything for a nice meal. 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.480 And that scared me. That scared me more than anything 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.960 she said. So after that I went to law school. 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.760 I thought, this is journalism. 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:13.640 By my own dinner, actually exactly. 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.880 I thought journalism could be very bleak if that's what 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.599 you have to do to get a meal. So so 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:23.160 I went to law school, but I never really enjoyed 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:28.240 the practice of law. And so when when my kids 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:31.679 were born, I started writing these novels and they weren't 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.200 going anywhere, and I thought, I have to get my 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.560 novels out before I go back to journalism, because once 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:40.920 people find out, you know, most people say my journalism, 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.680 they'll never let me publish another novel. Right, But my 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:47.560 novels were not successful. I never sold one. So I decided, 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.720 you know what, I have so many thoughts, I'm just 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.640 going to go back to journalism, and from there I 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:55.079 just started writing for the local press and my career 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:55.880 sort of took off. 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:58.640 Would law have been the plan, B. 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.080 I suppose. I mean, I like writing about law even now. 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.480 It's it's certainly an advantage in journalism to be able 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:10.280 to write accurately about law. It's it's something that trips 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.800 up a lot of journalists. So you know, certainly, having 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.080 that in my toolkit, as it were, as something I 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:20.720 can write about, I have found very useful. You know, 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.200 I'm not I'm not scared by a statute in the 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.640 way that I very reasonably some journalists would be, well, 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.720 I mean understandably, I mean, and I also, you know, 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:32.640 you know, because I went to y A law school, 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:34.640 I have a number of professors I can call up 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.320 if I'm not sure about something and get a really, 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:42.040 really smart take. So so you know, I I like 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:44.079 having you know, personally, I'm glad that I went to 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:48.160 law school, but you know, the journalism just just really 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.000 suits my personality best. 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:53.040 You live in California, and I've had a lot of 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.160 people on the show who have left California in the 0:11:56.200 --> 0:12:01.520 last five years. And you're saying you're you're you're you're 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.480 waiting it out. How how is it going? How is 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:05.400 how is it out there? 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:09.520 Well, you know, obviously California is a disaster in so 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:13.480 many ways, that's no secret. We're we're horribly governed all 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.720 the way down from the you know, state level, uh 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:19.840 through my local uh here in l A. I mean, 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.280 the governance is a disaster. But I write about the culture, 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.760 and there is really no better way to look at 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:30.000 how the culture has gone drastically off course, how it 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:34.320 has undermined families and children than to be in a 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.040 in the state where a lot of that, those bad 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:41.040 ideas and bad policies get started. So, you know, from 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.520 that perspective, it really is a candy store for a journalist. 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:48.320 And uh, for from the perspective of our family, we're 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:50.120 in it. We happen to be in a very nice 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.320 community so that you know, the kids are in a 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.760 good school, we're happy with so uh. From that perspective, 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:57.120 it's it's we're doing all right. 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.800 So California gets to keep you for now. 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.120 Yes, absolutely, we'll revisit right, Yeah, sounds good. 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:07.160 What do you worry about? 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:11.080 Oh, so there's there's so much to worry about. But 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.920 I think the thing I worry about the most right 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:22.840 now is why young people are not forming relationships, healthy relationships, 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.400 sort of the retreat from the in person world and 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:29.080 also the lack of meaningful romantic relationships that we're seeing 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:34.200 young people less interested in having them. They're too young 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.360 to know that they're giving up on the best things 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:39.959 in life. And also they've been lied to a lot 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:41.960 of them believe that no, I need to get my 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:46.040 professions started first. I can't possibly date someone until I've 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.040 pursued my career as a paralegal. 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:53.600 And it's don't go pursuing that career, go ahead and 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:54.760 find your spouse. 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.160 Now, right. I mean, you know, for for any job, 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.440 they will put off finding a spouse. And it really 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:05.240 should be the reverse. You know, I'm not saying, you know, 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.200 don't take your career seriously, but God willing, we have 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:12.079 many decades, productive decades had but unfor you know, the 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.520 way we're designed, we have a short time with biology 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.080 and in which to have children and to marry, and 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.040 that's the thing that we actually should be you know, 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:25.160 putting at least as much energy into if not more, 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.400 And unfortunately it's really reversed. Young people are putting all 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:32.160 their energy into their careers and none into finding a spouse. 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:33.840 And I do think that's a real problem. 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.160 Do you think phones are related to it, that they're 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.440 not living like real lives or they're they're just on 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:41.080 the internet. 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:45.080 Absolutely undeniably. But I also think that that the fearfulness 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:50.640 of the generation, they're so full of worry and look 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.800 in our personal relationships are the scariest and most risky 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.600 things you'll ever get involved in, and they're also the 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:01.320 most rewarding. But not knowing if someone's going to like 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:04.480 you back, much less love you back, not knowing if 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:06.360 you're going to get your heart broken. These are really 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.760 scary things. And we've raised this generation to be the 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:14.600 most fearful, and so unfortunately they're staying away from the 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.040 ultimate rewards of a loving relationship. 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.520 We're going to take a quick break and be right back. 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:26.200 On the Carol Marcowitch Show, I talk about this a 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:30.000 lot on the show, about relationships and about all kinds 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:35.560 of connections between people. Family, friendships, friendships are way down. 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.080 It's not just they're not just not making romantic connections, 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.160 they're not even making friends anymore. And I get emails 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.240 all the time from people saying like, how can I 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.960 help my teenager or how can I help my twenty 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.960 something make friends. It's becomes so like people see it 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:53.080 as out of reach to connect with other people, and 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:54.400 it's scary. 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.520 Yeah, you had a great column on that. I should 0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:59.720 have mentioned that. It was a terrific column. Everyone should 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:01.640 go back and read it if they missed it. On 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:03.840 the decline of friendship. It was something that I wasn't 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:08.320 aware of until I saw your column. And it's exactly 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.040 what you just said is exactly right. I mean, we 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:16.320 look back on our lives. Friendships and romantic relationships. These 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:18.920 are you know, in your spouse, and then these are 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.760 at the top of what gives you meaning and satisfaction 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:28.200 in life. And friendships are amazing things because you start 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:32.000 out you have these conflicts, right, you know, you get 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.760 very close to someone, then you fall out of touch, 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.240 or maybe you get a share with them or whatever happens. 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:42.240 But this is the amazing thing. Years go by, and 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:47.040 for whatever reason, it has this amazing cementing effect of 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.720 making your friendship so meaningful and so strong, and it 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.760 doesn't even matter how mad you got at her over 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.520 this or that. In the sixth grade, you look back 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:00.600 and all of a sudden, you've known her for thirty years. 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.600 And I do very much worry that kids are missing 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:05.520 out on those close friendships. 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:09.720 Yeah, I definitely like it's something that I think about 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:11.840 a lot. That you know, I'm on my phone a lot. 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:12.240 I can't. 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.800 I can't say that I'm not guilty of the same thing. 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:18.119 Every every moment of awkwardness, I immediately reached my phone 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.000 just like, WHOA, this feels much more comfortable. I could 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.919 just scroll and not focus on whatever is happening here. 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:30.600 How do you kind of direct your kids toward those connections? Right? 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.840 So, first of all, let me just acknowledge that it's 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:38.960 near impossible to manage the phones and the computers. It's 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.200 so hard, and the schools have made it harder than 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.520 any I think, any institution. You try to keep these 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:47.760 things away from your kids, and then every teacher assigns 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:51.760 homework through some school some computer programs. So let me 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:55.200 just start by saying, I'm, you know, not perfect by 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:57.439 any means. How do I direct my kids to in 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.239 person relationships? I do send them to a school with 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:04.720 a no phone policy, which has been really wonderful, And 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:06.840 you know, my sons who are in high school. They 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.680 have what's known as kosher phones. You can actually buy 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.959 these things and they are Internet blocked. It's great, that 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.719 doesn't It's been wonderful for us. They have you know, 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:20.639 various apps like WhatsApp for communicating with teams or you know, 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:24.479 chatting apps, but when like Gmail, so they can use 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:27.240 their see their schedules and whatnot. But it's not the 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:31.560 open Internet, Okay, so that's somewhat better. But truthfully, and 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:37.320 this goes to another question that I think, as you 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.040 let me know is on your mind, is sort of 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:44.240 what advice would I give? And that is that let's 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:44.520 just go. 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.600 Right to it. What advice would you give your sixteen 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:47.359 year old self? 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:49.879 Well, you know, what advice would I give my sixteen 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:51.560 year old self will be a little different, but I'll 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.320 tell you what advice I would give in general on 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:58.800 this issue of improving life, improving your life honestly, and 0:18:58.840 --> 0:18:59.920 I hate to say it, and people are going to 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.320 really upset that I said this, or maybe tune out, 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:06.560 but honestly, the easiest, quickest, most assured way to do 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.320 this is to join a religious community, join a church, 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.560 join a synagogue. There is no quicker way to get 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:17.760 actual real community, that is in person, that is meaningful, 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.560 that is full of connections, And yes, it comes with 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:24.920 plenty of annoyance too, of course, But I actually think 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.480 that that is the most direct way to sort of 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:30.119 immediately improve your life. 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.240 I love it. That's usually the last question, but that's okay, 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:34.720 that's okay, we can starry. 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:38.880 What advice would I give to my sixteen year old self. 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.800 You know, I spent a lot of years. I think 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:45.439 this may resonate with with a lot of women. So 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.639 I spent a lot of years thinking my personality was 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:50.760 just wrong. So by which I mean, you hear from 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:55.040 a lot of other girls you can't say that, my god. 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.200 You know that seems to be a theme with girl 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:00.159 groups of girls, and you spend a lot of of 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:03.520 time sort of, especially if you're like me or you 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:07.680 know you, I would imagine you sort of if you're 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.199 a straightforward person who just sort of calls things like 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:11.840 you see them, you spend a lot of time with 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.760 other girls being told that you're mean, you're saying all 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.119 the wrong things, and you don't share what you said. 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:20.399 And if I could go back, what I would would 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.960 would do is sort of tell myself. You know, there's 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:27.280 going to be a place for someone with your personality. 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.120 It's not all bad. It may be hard to maintain 0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:33.879 large groups of friends of girlfriends because they want you 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:37.760 to flatter them, and the ticket for large groups of 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:42.879 girlfriends tends to be small lies and flattery, neither of 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:47.720 which I'm terribly good at. But it turns out there's 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:49.920 you know, there's really a place for you, no matter 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:53.359 your personality. And I'm not talking about sociopathy or anything 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:57.760 like that, right, but personality and in journalism, you know, 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.200 I'm I'm I'm not running against you know, I'm going 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.880 with the current when it comes to my personality when 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.560 I tell the truth, because that's something that's always been 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:11.000 very easy for me. It's covering up the truth or 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:15.560 taking care of everyone's feelings that's always been harder. So 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:17.880 I sort of if I could go back, I wish 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.919 I would have known that, actually what was so difficult 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:28.800 in some situations that required niceties and flattery and you know, 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:32.399 white lies, it would actually be to my advantage in 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:33.600 a career in journalism. 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:38.320 Did you always have primarily male friends or yes, yes, 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.199 same same, Yeah. Do you know how that is so 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:44.960 not popular now like that is. When I say that 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.040 to my fifteen year old daughter, she's like, that's you know, 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:50.399 they call girls like that, like the pick me girl 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:52.320 who like tries to cater to boys and like no, 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:55.399 boys were just they were funny and trying to be 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:57.440 funny all the time. And that's what I was looking 0:21:57.480 --> 0:21:58.680 for totally. 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:00.600 And I was also I was always close to my 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:05.040 father and maybe yeah, and I don't know if it's 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:06.760 because I was close to him or we were close 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:10.240 because we had such similar personalities. But I always got 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:13.480 along with men and boys much better. And you know, 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.240 my husband says, he always jokes that I'm the only 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:18.560