WEBVTT - CZM Rewind: Where Did Tech's Magic Go? feat. Alex Cranz & Michael Fisher 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:03.320 Cauzone Media. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:07.640 Hello friends, it's me your host ed Zeitron, the host 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.719 of Better Offline. Now, of course it's Christmas weeks or 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.040 we're all taken a week off here at cool Zone Media. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.920 So I'm rerunning one of my favorite episodes, where did 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:18.639 text Magic Go for You? During Alex Crowanz and Michael Fisher. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:20.599 Now you're going to hear a lot more like this. 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:24.000 It's recorded in the awesome iHeartRadio studios in New York. 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:26.320 We're going to be doing way more of this next year. 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:28.520 But also the theme of this one is about where 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:32.280 text magic is gone, and I think this is a 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:34.400 formative theme of Better Offline but also going to be 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:36.440 a big thing in twenty twenty five for us. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:37.360 So please enjoy. 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.400 This is a wonderful episode full of laughs and larks, 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:43.040 and honestly those two are way more funny than I am. Anyway, 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:44.920 please enjoy and have a happy Holidays. 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.959 Hello and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host ed Zitron, 0:00:53.400 --> 0:01:07.720 otherwise known today as Woke Joe Rogan. Good. We are 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.320 live kind of from the iHeartRadio studios in New York. Today. 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.319 I am joyed by mister Mobile himself, Michael Fisher and 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:16.360 of course Alex Krantz from the Verge. 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:18.720 Thank you for coming, thanks for having to be here, 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.319 thanks for having us. So today is about where the 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.160 magic's gone in tech. Got two great tech journalists with 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:27.360 me and I myself have done some writing on tech, 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:27.960 I guess. 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:30.400 And the Big Thing. And this kind of started actually 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:32.840 from a conversation between you and me, Michael, where it 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.839 was about kind of like what are we even looking 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.680 at in tech anymore? Why things aren't fun? Like what 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.080 like it feels like we've stopped getting The most fun 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.200 thing I have found is I'm actually gonna pull it 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:44.680 out of my pocket and there's no video, so you're 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.559 never gonna know. Like this anchor charge, it's like thirty bugs. 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:52.640 I mean, like battery packs are cool, but otherwise everything 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:54.400 that comes out that's meant to be exciting, like the 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:57.120 Humane pin and the Rabbit are one, which obviously we're 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.480 bad from the beginning. Sorry anyone who thought otherwise, We're wrong, 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.280 And like the Daylight tablet, which we'll get to of course, 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:06.400 right these things just have turned out to be just 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:11.040 not even fun. You can be kind of shitty, but fun, 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:12.760 like there's something you can look at even some of 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.560 the great tech failures, like that weird frame that you 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.280 could upload things to from like twenty fifty and look 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:20.320 a few of these weird Indiegogo things. There was a 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:24.200 cute weirdness to it, but now it's just almost just nothing. 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:27.280 There's a lot of reasons for that. 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:28.000 There are. 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:29.480 Yeah, I feel like there are like a lot of 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.880 compounding problems that have like that have deposited us here today. 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:34.480 But I will say that I think that there are 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:38.280 some of those examples you gave are still could have 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.080 been fun. I think Rabbit is still trying to like 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:45.239 salvage the situation and make it work, but I mean humane, 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.520 I think you know, it took a giant swing, which 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:51.120 was this this thing we've learned I think you shouldn't 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.520 do at this point, which is try to replace the smartphone, 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:55.639 call the smartphone the enemy, and say we're going to 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:56.919 replace it with this wearable thing. 0:02:57.080 --> 0:02:58.760 And when you. 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:01.480 Deliver a product that's so undercooked, I think that's the problem. 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.440 Like when I mean undercook, I can't even get there. 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.040 And I think also just everybody's in this big quest 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.960 to beat the smartphone, right, like everybody wants to make 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:11.600 the next smartphone so they can make all the money 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:13.200 the way Apple did, and. 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:17.400 What is it? And so they're all like, throw it 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:18.399 at the wall? Is this it? 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:19.440 Yeah? 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:23.359 Even like you, I mean, I think you're right when 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:24.920 you say, like the rabbit and you look at these 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.320 AI devices and stuff where there feels like there's sort 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.800 of a cynicism. Yeah, to these products where you're like, oh, 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:32.560 you're just out here to make money. There's not like 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:36.000 something fun and exciting here. Like the Daylight Computer is 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.240 a good example. They're like, yeah, we're going to you know, 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:39.440 make computing black. 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.120 And white, just just for the listeners. You might not 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:41.560 know about it. 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.400 Can you describe the Daylight Yeah, the Daylight Computer. 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:46.360 You just reviewed it, right, Yeah, yeah, I just came 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:47.280 off the back of it. Yeah. 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.680 It's like I think I called it an ordinary Android 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.840 tablet with an extraordinary display because a special thing about 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:53.520 it is the display. 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:55.720 And David Pierce said, you know, yeah, like. 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.160 He thinks, uh, this this is this is a display 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:01.880 company necessarily a consumer product, but what is it though? 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.480 It's like an l CD display that only does black 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:06.119 and white. 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.240 Correct, And the special thing is that it has a 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:10.240 fast refresh rate that makes it very smooth, So when 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:12.640 you're manipulating it, it's like using a black It's like 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:15.600 using an iPad from the Fallout world, Yeah right, where 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:17.240 like it's is. 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.000 Yeah, it's kind of like using an e ink Android 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.000 tablet if the e ink could go fast. 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.080 Right, That's why I was excited about it. So what's 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:26.800 bad about it? 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.240 I mean the problem for me fundamentally, I've used a 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:31.680 lot of Android e Ink tablets. I'm a nerd about 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.599 these things, and fundamentally the problem is they're built for 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:38.400 black and white, which is cool. The Internet isn't. Oh, 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:40.320 so you're like, Okay, I'm going to download this app. 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:42.280 I can't see any of the buttons. 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.040 Cool, So they just did not prepare for people use 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.800 you can like I mean that's. 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:50.080 True of the of those e readers. 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:50.839 No, that is true. 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.839 But I think Daylight, like to their credit, they have 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.479 come out and said, look, we don't want color. You know, 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:58.440 it's this very granola very like if you watch the 0:04:58.480 --> 0:04:59.000 coverage of the. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.360 Yeah I've seen I've seen the Instagram ads. 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:03.800 Yeah yeah, and like that is their pitch, that is 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:05.800 their whole things, Like your screen is too colorful and 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.599 too addictive, and you should you should be able to 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:14.400 use your tablet outside in daylight, and it should function 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:15.880 as you expect. You should be able to do whatever 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:17.839 you want. But at the end of the day, ideally 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.520 you're not, as you know, drawn into this vortex of 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:22.880 of TikTok endlest feeds because you know you don't want 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:23.680 to watch YouTube on it. 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:24.640 You want to do someone. 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:28.240 They made reading deliberate, right, which which is a whole 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:29.920 industry now, isn't it right? 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.479 Like the light phone is another example where people are 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:34.919 just like, what if we took all the cool capabilities 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:39.000 of your phone and then like turned off a bunch 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:39.159 of it. 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.640 Yeah, I've seen the ads for that, that weird phone 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.360 where it's like, oh, we block out all the things 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.320 you use your phone for, right, so the thing that 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:49.880 you wouldn't use your phone. It's just very confusing, And 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.839 I love posting, I love looking at my phone ninety 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:54.240 two hours a way. 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:56.520 You are an online. 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.480 I will die if I don't go online. But also, 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.960 it doesn't feel like any of these companies, same thing 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.200 with Rabbit, same thing with Daylight. It doesn't feel like 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.960 they've actually talked to a person, like an actual person, 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.839 like a normal person, someone who uses Facebook and Instagram 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.960 to talk to their friends or get a I spam 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.280 and someone who has like a regular job, someone who 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:21.400 isn't in tech at all, yeah, and just said what 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:23.560 do you think? And then when that person said, I 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:27.200 don't know, why do I have this? What do I do? 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:29.640 They should have gone, oh shit, I shouldn't have released it. 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:31.920 But it doesn't. It doesn't feel what Rabbit I think 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:33.760 is a separate thing because I think they're fully cynical. 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:35.280 I think I think that they just. 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:36.120 Don't think give a shit. 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.280 It has to be held out separately daylight. It almost 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:43.520 feels like they just focus the simple people who chose 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:46.080 to well, well you said they were Alex. You said 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:47.680 there was there was something cynical. 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:49.440 About it, So I'm yeah, I mean I think for me, 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:51.800 like I said, I've used a lot of similar tablets 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:53.880 to this. So when they reached out and were like, hey, 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:56.599 we have this device, it's it's electronic paper. And they're 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.800 very careful of saying electronic paper, not eating, because that's 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.760 like an actual branded thing and eat ink will descend 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.400 from the heavens to just slap you down if you 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.400 use it inappropriately. And they said they're eat ink and 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:12.320 they they said they were electronic paper, really cool refresh rate, 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.160 and they wanted to like do this whole daylight thing 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:16.880 and the warm light stuff, and I thought all of it. 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:20.400 I think the warm light stuff is very unproven science. 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.040 That is just what is the where it's like, the 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.400 idea is if you look at an orange light before 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:26.880 you go to bed, that'll make you sleepy. 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:28.120 Blue light wakes you up and. 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.040 Makes you just proved this wasn't the case. 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.280 Yeah, that was bad timing for daylight for sure because 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:35.280 required came out with that thing. It's like, yeah, like 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.040 all these studies are not conclusive and also some new 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.559 ones have proven it isn't really very cool. 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.679 Yeah, it's just like and so that's also eight hundred 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:45.880 dollars right right, it's eight hundred dollars. 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.000 That's the problem for me. So here's the thing I 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:50.480 don't think the CEO is. I had some time to 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.080 talk to the CEO and I in a vacuum in absentia. 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:55.800 I kind of was like, this guy's got to be 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:57.880 a charlatan, right, He's got to be gone for a 0:07:57.880 --> 0:07:58.400 cash grab. 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.920 What he is? My take way was is that no, 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:02.080 he's he's a he's a. 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.880 Display nerd who really cares about making this particular kind 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:08.160 of display text looks and the display is cool, and 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:10.360 they like they didn't take an off the shelf component 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.720 from Sharp, which I also thought, and stuff it into 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:14.640 a white label Android tablet, which is what I thought 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.080 they did, Like this is that's that's just it was. 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.720 It's Android. But the hardware is they they built. 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:24.920 But did they make an effort with the software? Yeah? 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:27.880 The thing is that the devices they see that you know, 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.119 it's it's early. And this is the thing we complain 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.719 about with almost every product where it's like, yeah, well 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:34.360 this is just Niagara Laundra on top of Android. 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:35.400 But we have all these ideas. 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.560 I'm like, great delivery ideas before I. 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:42.079 Have a press like, aren't you It's very frustrating. 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:45.480 I wish I could do that. With the bank. Yeah, 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:49.719 I've got the money this month. However I will one 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.000 day and I'll have lots of it. Well, I mean 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:53.640 that's how I'm not sure. 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:55.439 That's a called a credit card. 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:58.240 And then the understanding is Okay, you have to pay 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.160 extra because you borrowed it. Whereas these companies are like, 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:04.400 hey give us your money. We're gonna give you a product, 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.360 it's not going to be a good product. But if 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:07.520 you just wait, and I'm like, no. 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:09.600 You should pay bad product. 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.079 Pay me to wait, pay me to wait? 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:14.760 Right, Yeah, I think the uncertain thing for me is like, 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:16.920 it's the price the thing that for daylight, if Daylight 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:19.200 was down at at you know, two hundred three hundred 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.439 bucks hundred four hundred, put that in a premium and 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:23.400 I'm like, look, okay, it's an intentional product for a 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.959 very specific market and and that's that's great. 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:27.400 So I hit them on that a lot. 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:28.800 I was like, you've got to make me understand why 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.679 this is seven hundred and twenty nine dollars and to 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:33.839 hear them tell it, it's the work that went into 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:37.400 the display, plus the tiny you know, minimum water quantities 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:38.679 they have to they have to hit. 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:40.680 So it's like so it's basically bit you got to eat. 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:43.480 No, No, it's like make it maybe even to make 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:45.280 a big margin on each tablet. That's the thing. 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:47.160 They were like, they are, No, I assume that at 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:48.720 least with that from the factory. 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:50.640 They just put in a lot of effort and these 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:52.880 things are much more expensive to make than they have to. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.080 Which one I can see that side of it now, 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.200 Like I'm on clicks, like I've gotten some experience with that, 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:58.240 and I'm like, okay, I get it. 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:00.320 I don't know if it's true. I'm not. I don't 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:00.880 know enough to know. 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:03.280 No, eight hundred dollars, Yeah, that's right. 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:07.559 Yeah, today the click iPhone is now one thousand dollars eccessory. 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:11.160 Listeners at home. So Michael is using this case on 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.640 his on his iPhone. It's called a click size. It 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.160 is clicks for iPhone, and this allows you to type 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:20.000 with your with your figure. It's a nice click to 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.480 it a little keyboard. How much that cost? 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.280 This is one twenty nine or excuse me, one thirty 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:26.080 nine or one like it. 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:28.720 I do like it. And I'm not just saying that 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.080 because I am I so founder. I'm very biased. 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:35.440 You can't trust me, God damn it. So the thing 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:37.439 is with something like that is it actually feels useful 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:39.840 because people type stuff on their phone sometimes I'm. 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:40.520 Just like fucking around with it. 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:45.960 But actually that's the word thing. It's they feel like 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:47.960 less fun things to fuck around with these days. And 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.160 that's something even like CS for years has been like this. 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.079 Everything I'm sure next year is just going to be 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.840 all ai again. But even the years before it felt 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:01.000 like they were less fun things. There's the kind of 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:07.119 exterior ring of security camera, toilet light and dildo companies 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:09.280 or from China, and they're amazingly. They're called like the 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:14.560 Shengzong Chang Zong Dong romance company and they sell eleven 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:18.160 different products, many batteries, and they're all the very nice people. 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.600 Then you've got like the cat litter company that always 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:22.719 turns up. You've got the Wi Fi grail company that 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:23.480 always turns. 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:25.120 That one folding machine, the one. 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.360 Folding machine that will never launch. But even then the 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:29.560 folding machine a kind of like that. It's like a 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.640 folksy dumb product that will never launch. But otherwise it's 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:35.360 like where's the magic, Like when was the last time 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:36.480 we had something fun? 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.480 Even I mean I CES is a weird one because 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:42.559 it is so I think most of the people coming 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.440 there are coming to sell things in American markets, right, 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.360 And if you don't need that, if you sell online, 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:50.840 you don't necessarily need to go to CES and have 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:52.120 that big presence. 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:54.000 Because you don't. You can just sell directly to the consumer. 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:55.480 You can just see it and we see that with 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:57.400 stuff like like the stuff I'm really into right now 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:59.160 is ian Eo I think is how you say it, 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:01.600 which is like gaming console. 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.120 It looks like a giant sidekick, right, yeah, like that one. 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:06.800 It's called the I n Ao. It's a y A 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:07.959 n EO. 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:13.000 I'm absolutely massacring the name A y A n e 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:17.520 o the flip ds and this thing is the dumbest, 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:18.880 most fun. 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:19.760 Thing I've used in a while. 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:22.520 It's like a steam Deck. But if the steam Deck 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:24.679 ran on Windows and therefore sucked. 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:27.840 Two screens, why do you enjoy it? 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.319 I think I like it because it's different. 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.800 It's doing something new, and there's like like, Okay, the 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.080 software is garbage, but that's kind of their fault because 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.240 it's hard to do software, and like you shouldn't launch 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:41.200 things with garbage software. 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:42.880 Steam Deck it's fine. 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:46.280 But it's also cool because like there's like it's just 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.000 got a good display. There's like a really good thought 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:50.600 behind it, and it's like, you know what, there's gonna 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.480 be people who really really like this thing and are 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:54.480 gonna have fun with it, and it's mainly gonna be 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.480 nerds who want to play Nintendo DS ROMs. 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:00.880 And I'm like, yes, cool, Well, that feels like the 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:02.680 first weird thing I've heard of in it while other 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:03.760 than like the Rabbit. 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.360 Yeah, and I think the ones that become a success 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.679 are like almost unavoidably not as weird. Like the thing 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:11.160 that jumps to my mind is, what's the last time 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.120 I was really impressed by something that I kept after 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.040 the review period or bought after the review period. It 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:16.920 was the Meta ray bands. 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:18.800 It was like, wow, oh my god. 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.000 They stuff really good speakers, yeah, and a really and 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:23.520 a pretty good camera into sunglasses and a bunch of 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:25.160 AI stuff that you really shouldn't talk about. 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.719 But yeah, it's like it's it's a really great accessory. 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:29.839 I've heard good things. 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:34.320 They just they just work like on the train a lot. Yeah, 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:36.600 and it just sounds good and like everybody in the 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:38.640 train car gets to listen to my music with me. 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:40.760 But then I sound really good on phone call, so 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:41.200 I don't care. 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.840 How you can use some vocals. Yeah, So that's vergin 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:44.480 on useful. 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.840 It is absolutely extremely useful. Except for Meta. 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:49.000 How they make that. 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:51.800 They made it because they. 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.520 Have like Meta has this big vision for AR and VR, right, 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:56.839 so they have they have they have the whole the 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.000 quest and all of that junk, and then they were like, well, 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:01.480 we need to do AR stuff and we need to 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:03.400 start normalizing what AR is going to look like. 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:04.160 So we're going to start with. 0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:05.880 These glasses so you can't see anything in them. 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.079 You can't know and so it's all audio. BOS was 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:09.199 doing this a couple of years ago. 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:09.880 That's right. 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:11.920 It's a few people who have done this, and it's like, 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.680 you know, when BOS did it was a stupid concept 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.520 and even the first set of ray bands were really stupid. 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.200 And then this time the quality was just good enough 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.400 where you're like, Okay, I get it now, I'm watch 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.000 of those they're like two fifty or something. 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.320 Oh god, yeah, between two and three hundred and something somewhere. 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.320 They're fairly It's one of those things where you're like, 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.080 I just got paid, I don't got any bills, do 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:32.880 anytime soon. 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.440 Let's do this, And they actually accomplished something that like 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.360 a lot of these AI companies that we've touched on 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:39.720 earlier have tried to do and sort of failed to do, 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:41.960 which is get you out of your phone. So for me, 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.960 I don't know, well, I'm a stupid influencer videot but 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:46.120 like thirty percent of the time. 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:48.040 It's just bad. 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.720 But like I'm firing up the camera, right, That's why 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:52.080 I got my phone out, just to use the camera 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:53.720 for something. Yeah, and when you have a camera built 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.520 into your glasses, you can just literally hit a button 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:55.960 on it and. 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:57.280 How the land what you're looking at? 0:14:57.480 --> 0:14:58.920 The human ice thirty five millimeters? 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:00.400 Right, Yeah, I have no I don't know what. I 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:01.560 don't remember what the spect. 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.840 The perspective is like weird because it's off. 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:08.320 Because of New York Times. He does lovely videos of 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.720 him cooking using them. He's got his Burmese mount and 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:15.400 dog Bruno, and he'll be like talking to Bruno and 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.600 like making stuff. He's got his name. That's fun. I 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.480 actually really enjoy that stuff. It feels bad that Meta 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.200 is doing it though, like the idea, but also how 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.200 it feels also weird that Meta made something good. Well, 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:31.280 I'm just very confused because all right, the VR stuff 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.120 with Quest, I know we're like meant to like most 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.120 people like, oh the Quest is good. It isn't good. 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:41.560 I'm sorry. I'm very sorry. Casey, my very close friend, 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:43.320 Casey's gonna hear it's gonna get pissed off and get 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:49.080 a signal message. The quest's fine, But even the new one, 0:15:49.200 --> 0:15:52.280 I still get sick. Yeah, I still feel weird. It 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:54.360 still doesn't go on my face. 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.760 Right. That's why they did the glasses is because they 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:58.960 know there's there's. 0:15:58.480 --> 0:15:59.920 Half Alex on the glasses. 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.560 I'm coming back to the glasses because they like they 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:06.320 did they did these headsets and everybody was like, oh wait, 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.760 this is not the future for AR and VR. People 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.720 look stupid. Like I saw my nephew come like one day. 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:13.760 I went over and I'm visiting him saying hi to everybody. 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:15.000 I'm like, oh, where is he And they're like, oh, 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:16.560 he's upstairs. And I go upstairs and there's just a 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.440 little kid all alone in a room, like wagging the 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.880 sticks around. And that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen. 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:23.120 Like I wanted to give. 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:26.920 Like I wanted to give him a wedgie, right, And 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.440 I'm like, that's that's a bad response for an aunt, 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:31.800 just like put my hand in my pocket and walk away. 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.400 And and but that's the way it is for everybody. 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:35.600 And so they're like, Okay, we got to do these 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:39.520 glasses because if we do these glasses, then that won't 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.280 be as dumb and stupid looking. 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.520 And I should just give a shout out to a 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:47.120 company that not a lot of people remember, and I 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:49.360 bet you do, but we remember Vocals by North. 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:52.280 I wonder the name. I remember what they did. 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.400 They shipped a pair of glasses that were very like 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.880 they were a little chunk here. They were obviously something 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:58.440 a little a little off about these. 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:02.160 Glasses, right, horrible display, but no, but they had a display, 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:03.400 and when you put them on your face, all of 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.960 a sudden, what materialized in your vision was a little 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.119 tron like heads up display and you could see your 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:09.240 text messages from your phone. 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:11.640 You could get drive driving directions, term by turn directions, 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.000 little points of interest things, and it was like it 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:15.800 was appearing in your eyeball. Of course, it was very 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:17.840 strange because when you're talking to somebody, you'd see they'd 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.520 look kind of above your eyebrow, and then you'd be. 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.560 Like, are you are you checking your messages while. 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:25.840 I'm talking to you? 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:25.920 No? 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:27.680 No, no, that's where you get the sunglass version. 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:28.160 Right. 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.840 But like, this was a great idea. 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:33.640 The technology was very fascinating, and then, as often happens, 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:37.480 they were purchased by Google, and Google either mismanaged it 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:38.359 or killed it and. 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:40.240 Killed it probably both. 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:42.560 Yeah, it's just brutal, I mean, and that was the 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:44.800 last time I felt like we were on the cusp 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:49.560 of maybe the next chapter of Personal Mobile Computer. 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.520 I yeah, Google gloss look cool. I never got to 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.280 play with Yeah, And I think Robert Scobel has done 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.879 a lot of bad things, But that weird picture of 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.960 him in the shower I genuinely the show. So there's 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:07.040 a really disgusting fellow called Robert Scobell, famous for reasons 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.200 I'm not actually sure. He kisses up to Elon Musk 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.720 now wants to marry his tesla. I believe I haven't 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:14.440 really checked that fact and its opinions, so you can't 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.560 sue me. So Robert Scobel took a picture wearing his 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:22.960 Google Glass while what looks like screaming in the shower, 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:25.880 and I mean. 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.919 Just a lot of people talked about that photo. 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:35.560 It was very the inverse of pornography. But that moment 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.040 was really unfortunate because Google glass was too expensive and 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:39.639 all that, And I don't think anyone should have ever 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.600 looked at it as the future arriving that day. But 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:43.959 the idea of a heads up displays cool. I think 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:46.160 heads up displays are cool. I think yeah, I don't 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:47.600 agree with thee. We need to get away from our 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.560 phone's thing. What we need is better society so that 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:53.280 it's worth looking away. Sam, that's that's the Actually, this 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:55.560 is an escapism. We made a tool to escape from 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.000 the world rules, kind of ripping off paris marks from 0:18:58.040 --> 0:18:59.640 tech one save us there. He made a similar point 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.680 about the pro to distract us from real life, which 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:06.680 is a bit much. He's not totally off Boom. It's 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:10.119 weird like heads up displays feel like a future. I 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:13.600 don't know if it's the big capital T, but that's 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:15.240 a way that they could be useful while getting us 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:17.800 away from constantly staring. Because there are times where I'd 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:19.520 like to walk through New York City and just listen 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:21.800 to music but also know where I'm going because I 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:25.520 don't ever and heads up display would be good. But 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:28.600 it's almost like they shouldn't be trying for fifteen years, 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:31.160 that they need to get to a completely different level 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:35.480 of chip plus display plus everything else and then do 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:36.520 it really well. 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.560 It's just because they're all so desperate to be the 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.159 next iPhone hyper like, like I love the you know, 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.280 I think everybody in this room currently has an iPhone. 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.399 They're they're very good devices. 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:51.080 Yeah, and everybody wants to be the next one because 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.600 then they get the thirty percent lock in they get They. 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.159 Are just all just cultural cachet. 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:58.119 Yeah, it just makes you the next big thing. And 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:03.160 so Meta has been doing that. Google's been doing that poorly. Uh, Samsung, 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:04.800 you know a lot of these people do it and 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.000 they all fail at it because the text is not 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:09.800 there yet, right, Like glasses, You're not gonna get glasses 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.119 until you have actually good displays that can also pass. 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:16.399 Through and can turn off and make way with. 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.280 You, and most importantly that you don't look stupid wearing 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:21.920 Like if I want to give you a widge Weggie, 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.600 you you've lost the plot. And I'm I'm liberal with 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:33.080 the wedgies. So actually it's like actorom the urge. 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:37.760 So with my sung glasses on the entire time, you 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:40.639 would have to know, but I would, Well, then there's 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:42.840 halfway they take them off. By the second pat. 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:46.000 You got to get some with the details of the 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:48.400 flames on them. 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:49.720 Well, guy Fieri moment. 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:02.440 So it feels like augmented reality is at least where 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.280 that could be fun now. Yeah, but it feels like 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:08.760 it's not twenty seven, twenty fifteen when they had that 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.119 weird burst of them. It feels like they've all stepped 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:13.000 back for it, which sucks because it feels like we 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:14.760 actually need R and D money there. 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.280 Ye, yes, because I feel like that's the thing. The 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:19.639 point you were just making, Alex, is that the technology 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:22.640 needs to catch up to the aspiration, right. And we've 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:24.120 seen a lot of the stemo and again the most 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:25.560 promising one got bought and killed. 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:27.120 Yeah, and I've never seen anything get close. 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:27.560 I mean I think that. 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:30.440 I think the ray Bands are close, and they're planning 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:32.760 apparently to put a lot more like invest a lot 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.200 more there right Like they just this week, I think, 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.800 did a whole reorg we're recording this, did a whole 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.359 reorg of this of the meta division. 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:43.040 And so they're like, Oculus, you go over here, and 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:43.720 you go over like. 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:47.440 An under an ad sales guy who well, I don't 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.920 remember the name, And then the ray Bands they're like, Okay, 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:54.199 this is like this is our focus. They've got plans 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:56.440 for some glasses the next couple of years that are 0:21:56.440 --> 0:22:00.600 like much more involved. We've heard like Google Bob Focal 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:02.760 and we haven't heard anything there and so it could 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:06.280 be dead. But also like everybody's talking about AR right now, 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:08.520 so it feels like maybe they're coming back. 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:10.600 I think that. So I had an episode about this 0:22:11.000 --> 0:22:13.360 rock com bubble. Yeah, well, I think what they're doing 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.439 right now is freaking out because they don't have and 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:18.399 they all want to be the next iPhone. But what 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:21.200 they realize is there is no next iPhone right now. 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:23.640 There is no next Google or Facebook or anything. 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:24.760 So they're chasing AI. 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:28.159 That's they're chasing AI. But come on, come on. 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:29.640 I was going to say, you've done a very good 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:32.520 job in the past three weeks deistrating on this very 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:35.920 show why AI is not as exciting one would. 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:38.240 That's a good point to bring up, though. How do 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:39.320 you two feel about AI? 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:42.560 Well, I feel I'll say this deptails with what you 0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:45.760 were just saying. I the companies are not the only 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:50.439 ones desperate for the next iPhone. I am desperate anytime again. Pierce, 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:54.000 you know, wrote that little blurb about you know, the 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:57.680 season of AI Gadgets is here before any of the 0:22:57.760 --> 0:22:59.399 Cumane and Rabbit stuff came out, and I was like 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:02.359 crossing my fingers as somebody who covers the stuff, and 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:05.280 as somebody who has loved the stuff for as long 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:06.160 as I can remember. 0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:08.280 I love the excitement. 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:10.600 Of new things coming out and introducing new possibilities, and 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:14.040 I feel like the A. I have an increasingly severe 0:23:14.119 --> 0:23:19.000 grudge against the AI bubble, the hip cycle for raising 0:23:19.000 --> 0:23:21.439 my hopes actually putting some pretty cool hardware in my head. 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:23.400 Say what you want about the humane pament that hardware 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:27.200 rocks and then absolutely cutting its legs out from under 0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:30.199 it because most of its functionality is based on an 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:32.480 LLM that you can't trust because it tells you the 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:34.760 sun is going to set forty minutes ago at eleven 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:35.200 in the morning. 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:36.720 Yeah, I think like AI is. 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:39.680 You know, I'm super excited about Apple Intelligence, mainly because 0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:41.800 I'm going to be able to make the best ship 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:44.560 posts to send my friends because you can do image 0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:48.360 generation and it's hideous. It's terrible looking, and I'm so 0:23:48.440 --> 0:23:51.800 excited to just troll people. But otherwise, like you know, 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:54.680 AI is one of those things like we've built lying 0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:58.120 machines and as far as large language models go, they're 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:00.000 really bad at it, to the point where Tim Cook's like, well, 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:04.400 wouldn't say one hundred, get it right. I believe that's 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:06.080 actually a bad thing you to. 0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:06.879 Say, dude. 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:09.080 And everybody's saying that because they're like, don't worry about it, 0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:11.560 don't worry about it. Meanwhile, the researchers are like, actually, 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:15.440 at language models, aren't the thing. Don't you should worry 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:18.399 about it. But everybody's like, but we can make money now. 0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:21.119 And so we can't. 0:24:20.280 --> 0:24:28.400 Well when he's not serving PC gamers like me. But 0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:30.960 that's the thing though, That's something he was saying that 0:24:31.040 --> 0:24:33.120 Michael was actually kind of the impetus of us being 0:24:33.119 --> 0:24:36.359 here today. Something in this show that people say, people 0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:38.280 say about me all the time is oh, you're just 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:41.480 a pessimist like this stuff. I love this ship. Do 0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:43.040 you know how excited I am want to get a 0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:45.159 new dumb gadget? I can mess around you. 0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:46.679 You've got a charger right here. 0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:49.360 Anchor charger. I'm so excited. I got two, so I've 0:24:49.359 --> 0:24:52.359 got redundancy. So happy with that stuff. I love my 0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:54.919 little gizmos and gadgets. I love this stuff, and I 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:57.439 haven't really had anything to be The steam Deck was 0:24:57.440 --> 0:25:01.320 the last time I was really like excite and then 0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:04.480 excited after yeah, and kind of the Vision Pro. 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:06.120 Oh, interesting, but. 0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:09.440 It's like there's always a but, and the butt is 0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:11.840 usually Yeah. But the people who made it, they didn't 0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:15.000 really give it to real people. Yeah, they gave it 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:17.280 to a focus group and it was a McKinsey one, 0:25:17.720 --> 0:25:20.000 so three quarters of them were paid to say whatever 0:25:20.000 --> 0:25:22.760 they wanted to hear and the rest didn't turn up. 0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:27.040 And it's just frustrating because there was a time. I 0:25:27.040 --> 0:25:29.240 think it's just love the rockkombabble. There was a twenty 0:25:29.320 --> 0:25:31.600 year period and you've got new stuff, new stuff, new stuff. 0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:34.600 Even the bad stuff was kind of funny. Yeah, even 0:25:34.640 --> 0:25:37.879 all this dorky indieg Go bullshit, like the Coolest Cooler 0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:40.359 which had a speaker at a Marguerite. You knew that 0:25:40.440 --> 0:25:42.760 was never gonna work. You kind of enjoyed them try, 0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:44.440 and then they scammed a bunch of people that was 0:25:44.480 --> 0:25:50.320 also bad. Yeah, but you stopped getting fun, like there 0:25:50.359 --> 0:25:53.080 wasn't something to look forward to, like the Vision Pro. 0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:55.840 Reason they brought it up is my first hour with 0:25:55.960 --> 0:26:00.040 it was so exciting, and then I realized that I 0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:02.199 had like light bleeding in so I started fucking with 0:26:02.280 --> 0:26:04.760 it and I couldn't get it on right and I 0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:07.320 spent like another hour trying to make it work, and 0:26:07.359 --> 0:26:09.119 it just turned out that like I didn't have the 0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:11.720 right size thing, which dramatically improved it, and I was 0:26:11.840 --> 0:26:15.080 using it fairly often. I'm like, this is not there yet, 0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:17.879 but this is different and cool and watching movies on 0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:20.240 its great. Then I tried to watch on a plane. 0:26:20.280 --> 0:26:20.760 How'd that go? 0:26:21.040 --> 0:26:25.560 I got a migrant and I have yet to finish June. 0:26:25.880 --> 0:26:28.360 People say this and Ultimore or whatever it is from 0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:31.560 that to me all the time. But it's it's very 0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:35.320 strange because it almost doesn't feel like anyone's trying. 0:26:35.760 --> 0:26:37.359 Yeah, well go ahead. 0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:38.920 I was gonna say, like, the VR thing is a 0:26:38.960 --> 0:26:42.040 weird one because it is so dependent on the person. 0:26:42.240 --> 0:26:42.440 Right. 0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:45.720 Like I had a friend who also just recently did 0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:48.560 a cross country flight, wore the vision pro watched June 0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:51.840 and June two nice back to back, and they were 0:26:51.880 --> 0:26:52.639 they loved. 0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:53.760 It, absolute legends. 0:26:53.840 --> 0:26:57.520 Yeah, whereas you would have presumably thrown up everywhere and 0:26:57.520 --> 0:26:58.360 they would My. 0:26:58.320 --> 0:26:59.639 Head just felt like it would explode it. 0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:00.280 Yeah. 0:27:00.400 --> 0:27:02.760 Uh, and and and that's just because like your your 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:05.960 vestibular response is totally different than their vestibular response, and 0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:07.160 it's that's what's. 0:27:06.960 --> 0:27:07.800 Gonna happen there? 0:27:07.840 --> 0:27:10.239 And that's why VR is a dead end, and that's 0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:13.160 why Meta now has like been like you go over here, 0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:14.760 we tried it. 0:27:14.920 --> 0:27:16.200 Did watchful Hand of Baz? 0:27:16.560 --> 0:27:18.960 Yeah, we did that. What was it the Meta Quest pro? 0:27:19.320 --> 0:27:20.400 That was that the one. 0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:22.399 Where they had the pro one they've canceled. 0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:24.919 Yeah, where they released it and everybody's like this is 0:27:24.960 --> 0:27:25.880 garbage and they're. 0:27:25.680 --> 0:27:27.639 Like, yeah, no, they released it. I think what it 0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:29.040 was was they released it at the same time as 0:27:29.080 --> 0:27:31.560 the Quest two, which was like three hundred four hundred bucks. 0:27:31.560 --> 0:27:34.080 People like, this is pretty good. Yeah, Like the expectations 0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:35.840 were low, and they're like, but what if you paid 0:27:36.200 --> 0:27:40.120 fourteen hundred dollars for something that wasn't as good? Yeah, 0:27:40.800 --> 0:27:42.120 but it was more powerful? 0:27:42.160 --> 0:27:44.240 Well yeah, and that's you were saying a second ago, 0:27:44.240 --> 0:27:45.679 like it doesn't feel like people are trying anymore. 0:27:45.720 --> 0:27:47.439 I think that's not it. I think people are trying 0:27:47.480 --> 0:27:48.400 at the wrong thing. 0:27:48.640 --> 0:27:53.080 Yes, former journalists, uh should be become a journalist again 0:27:53.119 --> 0:27:57.080 because we miss him. David Reddick was just complaining about 0:27:57.080 --> 0:27:59.040 this on LinkedIn and he was just like, you know, 0:27:59.720 --> 0:28:01.840 with respect to the product managers, who I call my friend, 0:28:02.119 --> 0:28:07.160 like product managers are ruining the segment because and even 0:28:07.160 --> 0:28:08.680 if you take it out above the PM like, it's 0:28:08.680 --> 0:28:11.840 like companies have realized that if they do enough marketing 0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:14.480 to create artificial demand, then that is a way to 0:28:14.520 --> 0:28:16.160 make money in the short term and you can keep 0:28:16.200 --> 0:28:17.119 the business growing. 0:28:17.200 --> 0:28:19.120 Well, is that just what they believe is the case? 0:28:19.160 --> 0:28:21.560 It may well be right for the long term. It's 0:28:21.560 --> 0:28:23.320 certainly not true. Yeah, But for the short term it 0:28:23.359 --> 0:28:25.400 may be. You get spike and it feels like there's 0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:27.480 ten times as much of that as there is it 0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:29.679 for every ten examples of that, there's one example of 0:28:29.680 --> 0:28:31.720 a company it's actually like, hey, we actually have a 0:28:31.720 --> 0:28:33.960 good idea. Maybe it's a little weird idea, but we 0:28:34.000 --> 0:28:35.840 think enough people buy it it will buy it and 0:28:35.840 --> 0:28:37.439 find delight in it that we can make a business 0:28:37.440 --> 0:28:40.040 out of it, right Yeah. And if more people did 0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:42.120 that instead of like, what, how can we make money 0:28:42.120 --> 0:28:44.600 and get out as quickly as possible, Right, then I 0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:46.360 think we would have those glory days. 0:28:47.120 --> 0:28:48.760 You can make the money and get up by doing 0:28:48.760 --> 0:28:52.400 some people want to buy it. It's just frustrating, true, Alex. 0:28:52.520 --> 0:28:56.080 It's are you enjoying any devices other than the strange 0:28:56.120 --> 0:28:57.560 North White steam Deck, Yeah. 0:28:57.440 --> 0:28:59.800 The garbage steam deck that I'm not even going to 0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:03.680 or because you should buy it. It's it's it's not 0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:05.560 going to be good for most people, but it's so 0:29:05.680 --> 0:29:08.840 much fun to like fuck around with. I don't know, 0:29:08.880 --> 0:29:10.240 I like that's one of the reasons I got really 0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:12.120 into e ink because it felt like it was much 0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:15.000 closer to like there's felt like there was something there 0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:17.880 that could be solved pretty quickly. But that was like 0:29:17.880 --> 0:29:20.720 five or six years ago, and it hasn't happened. 0:29:21.120 --> 0:29:22.240 What's slowing it down. 0:29:23.320 --> 0:29:26.160 Because everybody wants to make money through vertical integration, so 0:29:26.200 --> 0:29:27.720 they're like, well, I don't want you to actually get 0:29:27.720 --> 0:29:29.840 anybody else's books on your device, I want you to 0:29:29.840 --> 0:29:30.560 get my books on. 0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:32.720 So everyone wants to do a platform play, right. 0:29:32.640 --> 0:29:33.920 So everybody's doing a platform play. 0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:36.040 So it's it's money again, right, Like everybody's like, I 0:29:36.080 --> 0:29:37.600 need all as much of the money as I can 0:29:37.640 --> 0:29:38.640 get to my little side. 0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:41.280 Because Apple did that and it worked really well for Apple. 0:29:41.440 --> 0:29:42.880 It's like they never worked for anyone else. 0:29:44.320 --> 0:29:45.800 Well, I mean Amazon, it kind of works. 0:29:45.880 --> 0:29:47.200 Amazon already had that scam going. 0:29:47.440 --> 0:29:48.560 Yeah, that's true, that's. 0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:51.360 True, and you haven't seen that meaningful evolution in the 0:29:51.400 --> 0:29:53.640 kindle with such the scribe in a long time. 0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:56.640 Which isn't insane garbage compared to a lot of the 0:29:56.680 --> 0:29:58.840 stuff because like China, and this is the other point 0:29:58.880 --> 0:30:01.240 is there's a lot of it happening in China. 0:30:01.280 --> 0:30:02.200 A ton do you. 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:04.840 Ever use the odin the odin? So there was this 0:30:05.040 --> 0:30:08.400 It's an Android gaming console before the Steam deck. So 0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:10.280 just to be clear, okay, probably not as fun, but 0:30:10.600 --> 0:30:14.080 super fast. You could do PlayStation remote on it almost 0:30:14.080 --> 0:30:16.280 like predecessor to the PlayStation portal, which is literally just 0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:18.239 playing PlayStation and it was great. And what they did 0:30:18.400 --> 0:30:20.040 is a crazy idea. They were like, why don't we 0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:22.760 make it really easy to run the specific gaming apps 0:30:22.800 --> 0:30:24.920 you like? And what if we made the buttons good? 0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:25.440 Yeah? 0:30:26.120 --> 0:30:28.360 And what are crazy? You like? Sold out? Indigogo did 0:30:28.360 --> 0:30:30.960 really well. Comes out of China, and it's like this 0:30:31.280 --> 0:30:35.480 current sinophobic climate's fucking frustrating because let them in, please 0:30:35.520 --> 0:30:38.240 borrow the innovation from them. They seem China seems to 0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:40.640 be fucking trying with tech right. 0:30:40.440 --> 0:30:42.560 And one of the reasons they're trying because I kind 0:30:42.560 --> 0:30:44.320 of went down a rabbit hole with the e inc 0:30:44.360 --> 0:30:46.320 thing where I was like why is nobody trying this, 0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:48.680 Like you're getting all these really cool e ink readers 0:30:48.680 --> 0:30:51.640 out of China and nothing here. And it was because 0:30:52.240 --> 0:30:54.840 we're so obsessed with that lock in. We're so obsessed 0:30:54.880 --> 0:30:56.800 with how do we build that bigger model. We don't 0:30:56.800 --> 0:30:58.200 want to just sell one thing. We want to sell 0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:00.440 you the services, We want to sell you the platform. 0:31:00.560 --> 0:31:03.640 And America is just super hyper focused on that, where China's. 0:31:03.280 --> 0:31:05.640 Like, yeah, I mean I don't care who he used, well, 0:31:05.760 --> 0:31:06.560 I mean by our ship. 0:31:06.800 --> 0:31:09.080 I mean as they also have one monopoly. 0:31:09.200 --> 0:31:12.880 Yeah, yeah, it's like we all operate within this one. 0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:16.360 We're all controlled by ten Cent. But yeah, but it's 0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:19.800 frustrating because I feel like what it might also be 0:31:19.920 --> 0:31:21.640 is that they're like, how do we make the next 0:31:21.680 --> 0:31:24.200 trillion dollar company or billion dollar company? They're like, what 0:31:24.280 --> 0:31:25.920 if you made a fifty million dollar company? 0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:28.520 No, yeah, fuck that, Well, you got you gotta you 0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:31.400 gotta get your your your investors, right, you gotta get 0:31:31.400 --> 0:31:32.080 your stockholders. 0:31:32.080 --> 0:31:33.680 You gotta do all of that. 0:31:33.800 --> 0:31:37.600 And apparently money is not free. People don't just give 0:31:37.760 --> 0:31:38.400 money away. 0:31:38.640 --> 0:31:41.520 Got to give one hundred million dollars to Adam Newman 0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:44.640 again so that you can make the next bad company. 0:31:44.960 --> 0:31:45.880 I think that happened. 0:31:45.920 --> 0:31:46.240 It did. 0:31:46.280 --> 0:31:48.120 He got two hundred and fifty million dollars as well. 0:31:48.200 --> 0:31:51.120 Just I want to fail that hard up that sounds 0:31:50.600 --> 0:31:51.800 rate so good. 0:31:51.640 --> 0:31:53.560 Well, and like we I don't mean to keep bringing 0:31:53.560 --> 0:31:54.880 it back to humane. But that was the thing I 0:31:54.960 --> 0:31:56.760 kept saying in the human briefing. I was just like, guys, 0:31:57.120 --> 0:31:58.400 I know this is not what you want to hear, 0:31:58.600 --> 0:32:01.000 but this would be a great little scessary for the phone. 0:32:01.000 --> 0:32:02.520 You could still do a lot of cool things and 0:32:02.560 --> 0:32:04.520 have it glink to your phone, and then it wouldn't 0:32:04.520 --> 0:32:06.320 be well a bunch of things. 0:32:06.800 --> 0:32:07.680 It did not work, but. 0:32:09.480 --> 0:32:11.560 You didn't catch on fire. That's that's exactly. 0:32:11.560 --> 0:32:12.200 I'm still here. 0:32:12.320 --> 0:32:13.000 You're still here. 0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:16.160 But like the it wasn't a bold enough vision. And 0:32:16.160 --> 0:32:18.000 they didn't say this, I assume this. 0:32:18.200 --> 0:32:20.240 It wasn't a bold enough vision one to get a 0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:22.520 bunch of people motivated to do. Because if you're replacing 0:32:22.600 --> 0:32:25.040 the smartphone, big quotes around that, well, that's a that's 0:32:25.080 --> 0:32:27.160 a mission that's at least difficult, that's like a moonshot. 0:32:27.400 --> 0:32:29.720 And then B, you can't get enough investors excited to 0:32:29.760 --> 0:32:31.720 your point to give you all the all the money 0:32:31.720 --> 0:32:33.480 that you just want to put together just a. 0:32:33.600 --> 0:32:36.880 Note for listeners. That's the humane AI pin Google it. 0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:39.920 It's terrible. Seven dollars twenty four dollars a month, just 0:32:40.520 --> 0:32:42.600 the basic thing. But the human was so weird though. 0:32:42.600 --> 0:32:44.240 And this is the thing that I will never understand 0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:46.680 and they will never tell me, is how did you 0:32:46.720 --> 0:32:48.800 put this out the door? How did you look at 0:32:48.840 --> 0:32:49.200 this thing? 0:32:49.280 --> 0:32:49.440 Oh? 0:32:49.480 --> 0:32:53.200 It overheats in two minutes. Oh chat GBT sometimes doesn't work. 0:32:53.960 --> 0:32:56.959 Basic shame. I mean I would not want to do it. 0:32:57.040 --> 0:32:57.840 I would be like. 0:32:58.280 --> 0:33:00.320 They kind of had to write, like they kind of 0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:02.120 hit their their point where it's like, shoul or get 0:33:02.120 --> 0:33:02.600 off the pot. 0:33:02.920 --> 0:33:05.000 This is the question. I don't know. I asked that 0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:05.320 about it. 0:33:06.680 --> 0:33:09.000 Is it rabbit cynicle one believe? 0:33:09.080 --> 0:33:11.200 I think Rabbit had to launch before the what we 0:33:11.200 --> 0:33:12.800 all knew was gonna happen, which was Google was going 0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:14.560 to do us, Apple was going to do. 0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:16.560 Yeah. 0:33:16.840 --> 0:33:19.280 People saw how it operates so that they. 0:33:19.200 --> 0:33:21.080 Could say this is it looks cool? 0:33:21.480 --> 0:33:22.600 Yeah, it does look cool. 0:33:23.440 --> 0:33:26.680 He is on the board of teenage Engineering. He is 0:33:26.720 --> 0:33:28.959 on the board This boys are sick. Okay, we're going 0:33:28.960 --> 0:33:31.840 to talk about the rabbit. It's time, so those listeners 0:33:31.880 --> 0:33:33.720 who don't know about the rabbit. Is this two hundred 0:33:33.680 --> 0:33:36.400 dollars AI device and it claims to have something on 0:33:36.440 --> 0:33:39.680 it called a large Action model. Large Action Model claims 0:33:39.680 --> 0:33:42.640 it was trained on six hundred plus apps to distinctly 0:33:42.680 --> 0:33:45.240 control raps, but for some reason it only launched with 0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:47.560 four or five. Turns out that when you ask the 0:33:47.640 --> 0:33:51.000 lamb to do something, it would sometimes just not work. 0:33:51.080 --> 0:33:53.920 Sometimes you would say or to me McDonald and it 0:33:53.960 --> 0:33:57.920 would go, sorry, Uber isn't working. And it turns out, 0:33:58.040 --> 0:34:00.680 due to some friendly hackers that it turned out that 0:34:00.800 --> 0:34:03.280 it isn't actually using a large action model. It's connected 0:34:03.280 --> 0:34:06.840 to Playwright, a script thing. I'm sure more technical listeners 0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:09.040 are going to email me corrections. I'm very sorry. But 0:34:09.280 --> 0:34:12.480 in short, instead of running a large action model an 0:34:12.520 --> 0:34:16.080 actual AI thing, it was triggering scripts using chat GPT. 0:34:16.600 --> 0:34:19.520 Now I could do a whole episode in surprise. I 0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:21.200 haven't over the whole thing that there used to be 0:34:21.239 --> 0:34:24.880 an NFT company, but putting all of the obvious horrible 0:34:24.880 --> 0:34:28.640 things aside, it just fucking sucks. Yeah, it's just really 0:34:28.719 --> 0:34:32.920 bad in a way that is almost unbelievable. I recommend 0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:35.000 you going look Dave three d did a whole thing 0:34:35.000 --> 0:34:36.680 about it before it came out that was very good. 0:34:36.960 --> 0:34:39.960 But go and look at Linuses and Linus I know 0:34:40.000 --> 0:34:41.640 people have problems with him, but his the thing about the 0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:43.399 rabbit was great because it was mostly him trying stuff 0:34:43.400 --> 0:34:46.080 it not working and goes what what what, which was 0:34:46.160 --> 0:34:46.960 very entertaining. 0:34:47.520 --> 0:34:48.200 It's very fun. 0:34:48.280 --> 0:34:53.120 But it's just broken. Yeah. Yeah, and they raised another 0:34:53.239 --> 0:34:57.120 thirty two million dollars in March. It feels like I 0:34:57.160 --> 0:34:59.560 am living in a different universe to the rest of 0:34:59.640 --> 0:35:02.319 the world. I see this. It's bad. The YouTube's like, 0:35:02.360 --> 0:35:05.759 this is the worst thing I've ever used. Investorsla absolutely, Yeah, 0:35:05.840 --> 0:35:07.879 I need to get in on the shit now. Yeah. 0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:10.359 Yeah. Elon Muska just sent them, wrote them a check. 0:35:11.280 --> 0:35:13.640 He did not, to my knowledge, write them a check. 0:35:13.680 --> 0:35:14.319 He wouldn't do that. 0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:16.000 It's an epic advice device. Yeah. 0:35:16.000 --> 0:35:17.040 I don't think you're alone. 0:35:17.200 --> 0:35:19.840 I think there is a weird tension happening where we 0:35:19.880 --> 0:35:22.040 have Silicon Valley. We have all these investors in Silicon 0:35:22.120 --> 0:35:24.920 Valley who are all just desperate to make money and 0:35:25.280 --> 0:35:29.320 never took a single history English course like any liberal arts. 0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:31.719 They think that's stupid. And then there's the rest of 0:35:31.719 --> 0:35:32.080 the world. 0:35:32.160 --> 0:35:34.120 Yeah, and these people are so focused on money they 0:35:34.160 --> 0:35:36.000 forget the rest of the world. They'd never touch grass. 0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:37.560 And so they'll put on the vision pro and be like, 0:35:37.640 --> 0:35:39.239 this is going to change the face of computing and 0:35:39.239 --> 0:35:42.799 not consider the billion of different other ways people use computers. 0:35:43.680 --> 0:35:49.040 Or they'll see the rabbit with the worst name on 0:35:49.120 --> 0:35:49.680 the planet. 0:35:49.719 --> 0:35:53.440 By the way, a majority of women I know the 0:35:53.520 --> 0:35:54.799 rabbit was coming out was like. 0:35:54.760 --> 0:35:56.239 Why wouta pay two hundred dollars for that? 0:35:56.800 --> 0:35:58.839 I got one in my drawer next to my bed. 0:35:58.920 --> 0:36:02.040 What the hell, guys, I'm dying to know more about 0:36:02.040 --> 0:36:03.040 that weight. I didn't even put that. 0:36:03.160 --> 0:36:05.560 Yeah, the rabbit is a very notorio like that's that's 0:36:05.560 --> 0:36:07.439 a term for a whole type of sex toy. 0:36:07.480 --> 0:36:09.239 That's what is. Yeah, I had no idea. 0:36:09.320 --> 0:36:11.120 Yeah, and so like when they were like, we've got 0:36:11.120 --> 0:36:13.320 the rabbit, and I was like, do you oh, this 0:36:13.400 --> 0:36:14.560 is a different rat. 0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:16.040 Like now I'll bring out the app. 0:36:16.080 --> 0:36:20.600 You're like, whoa, what's happened to cees. I knew you 0:36:20.640 --> 0:36:22.120 guys were doing sex tech now. 0:36:22.000 --> 0:36:24.640 But wow, so I moved the adult thing away from 0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:28.400 c That's depending on but I think I think that 0:36:28.520 --> 0:36:30.480 it is that that there's the kind of disconnection from 0:36:30.480 --> 0:36:32.600 the real world. But there's also I don't know if 0:36:32.600 --> 0:36:34.399 these people use stuff. I just don't. 0:36:34.520 --> 0:36:35.359 I don't think they do. 0:36:35.440 --> 0:36:38.640 I don't know if they use it. Like I really 0:36:38.640 --> 0:36:41.080 want to just get behind Marc Andreeson at one point 0:36:41.200 --> 0:36:43.080 and can't say the rest of that. But I mean, 0:36:43.160 --> 0:36:45.360 look over his shoulder and see the font size on 0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:48.160 his iPhone right like I want to see it because 0:36:48.320 --> 0:36:50.719 I don't think these people interact with the real world 0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:53.520 or touch grass. But I also don't think they like 0:36:53.560 --> 0:36:56.040 I don't think well app vision pro is different because 0:36:56.040 --> 0:36:58.800 public company whatever. Yeah, but like the rabbit, for example, 0:36:58.840 --> 0:37:01.600 I don't think they fucking cared like these little pigs 0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:02.160 will buy this. 0:37:02.480 --> 0:37:04.680 Well, they'd already bought it, right like, like they announced 0:37:04.680 --> 0:37:07.000 the thing, they made these huge promises, they did a 0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:09.920 ton of pre sales, and then it came out and 0:37:10.320 --> 0:37:11.480 we haven't heard how. 0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:13.359 The pre sales or how the sales have. 0:37:13.320 --> 0:37:17.480 Been thousand units after Oh we don't. 0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:19.120 Yeah, well, and I don't know what we're going to 0:37:19.200 --> 0:37:19.680 hear about that. 0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:21.800 Right, like we are not it's coming from. 0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:25.640 I think, you know, I mean, if I'm with you, 0:37:25.680 --> 0:37:30.319 I think there are dubious business motivations to a lot 0:37:30.320 --> 0:37:32.600 of this right. But I can't help but think that 0:37:32.600 --> 0:37:35.120 if I was inside one of these organizations that I 0:37:35.160 --> 0:37:37.479 wouldn't look no, I know, I would have been caught 0:37:37.560 --> 0:37:38.880 up in it. I would have been caught up in 0:37:38.920 --> 0:37:40.440 the ambition. I would have been caught up in the promise, 0:37:40.560 --> 0:37:42.960 especially when you consider that the design process of a 0:37:43.000 --> 0:37:44.399 lot of this stuff goes back to the time when 0:37:44.440 --> 0:37:47.520 we were most of us are getting our first chance 0:37:47.560 --> 0:37:50.200 to interact with chet GPT and I'm like to make 0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:53.160 me a text adventure in the style of Star Trek 0:37:53.200 --> 0:37:53.959 Deep Space nine. 0:37:54.080 --> 0:37:56.520 Yeah, and it did it, and I was like, oh, 0:37:56.680 --> 0:37:57.239 oh my god. 0:37:57.320 --> 0:37:59.000 You know, I remember where I was when that happened. 0:37:59.000 --> 0:37:59.960 It was like the first time I put on a 0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:02.680 our headset. I remember the first time I was actually 0:38:02.680 --> 0:38:04.160 blown away by AI. And if I was in an 0:38:04.200 --> 0:38:06.160 inside a company or a recently hybrid companies like we're 0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:08.200 going to change the world with this tech, I think 0:38:08.239 --> 0:38:10.239 I would have I probably would have been on that 0:38:10.280 --> 0:38:14.279 boat for like a year before I started getting really internally. 0:38:15.520 --> 0:38:18.200 Initially, Yeah, yeah, I like for me, I used it 0:38:18.239 --> 0:38:20.680 and it just reminded me of the aim bots from 0:38:20.680 --> 0:38:23.640 like I'm old here. I'm some apologies to the audience. 0:38:23.840 --> 0:38:26.320 I'm sure you're all twelve. Hi, why are you listening. 0:38:26.080 --> 0:38:27.080 To be sure I'm older than you. 0:38:27.239 --> 0:38:28.720 Yeah, we're old people. 0:38:28.960 --> 0:38:31.400 But the AIME bots, you'd go and you'd log in 0:38:31.440 --> 0:38:33.880 and you type and the type back and then there's 0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:35.719 we've seen this so many times and this one I 0:38:35.760 --> 0:38:38.319 was like, Okay, yeah, we're back to this. We're back 0:38:38.360 --> 0:38:41.640 to this, Like the pattern recognition and recreation machine has 0:38:41.640 --> 0:38:45.160 gotten just really really good, and I was like, that's fine. 0:38:45.640 --> 0:38:48.319 Yeah, that's kind of That's actually where I was as well, like, oh, 0:38:48.360 --> 0:38:50.640 you can do a textpace adventure. And I think if 0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:53.319 I'd have had that, I would have gone cool, all 0:38:53.400 --> 0:38:57.000 right and just kind of just say because I run 0:38:57.040 --> 0:39:00.520 a pofhe yeah, I have clients in AI, but nothing 0:39:00.520 --> 0:39:03.719 that touches this show because I'm scared of that. And 0:39:03.800 --> 0:39:06.319 it's like it's a few clients night who have even 0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:07.799 just do a I think that's the thing I don't. 0:39:07.920 --> 0:39:10.719 Surprisingly enough, AI companies aren't super excited to work with 0:39:10.719 --> 0:39:13.080 me when I'm talking about them actually having to do stuff. 0:39:13.560 --> 0:39:15.640 But it's like with jat GPT, for example, I know 0:39:15.800 --> 0:39:19.160 I actually understand totally Michael, why you were excited like that. 0:39:19.280 --> 0:39:22.040 I can understand why others might have been excited by that. 0:39:22.680 --> 0:39:26.360 I just don't understand how they're still that way because 0:39:26.400 --> 0:39:30.080 nothing has happened. Money, money, I guess. 0:39:30.120 --> 0:39:33.200 But I mean money is a very powerful driver if. 0:39:33.040 --> 0:39:36.160 You work for a financial institution, I get, But like 0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:40.359 Gadget review, even just regular people don't seem excited. It's 0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:42.640 just so weird. It feels like living in two realities 0:39:42.640 --> 0:39:43.000 at once. 0:39:43.120 --> 0:39:43.799 Yeah. 0:39:43.840 --> 0:39:46.160 And like there was a sign that someone posted on 0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:50.719 Blue Sky was like we put the AI in an 0:39:50.760 --> 0:39:52.840 I n ipa. It was a Dell advert. 0:39:53.239 --> 0:39:53.319 What. 0:39:53.840 --> 0:39:57.040 Yeah, I just I feel like I like it. I 0:39:57.080 --> 0:40:00.080 have a friend who is in a dot com boom company, 0:40:00.320 --> 0:40:03.200 like a textbook related one, and I'm really tempted to 0:40:03.239 --> 0:40:05.719 call him and be like, was it like this? Was 0:40:05.760 --> 0:40:08.000 it like this? And if he says yes, I'm gonna 0:40:08.000 --> 0:40:10.239 do nothing because I can't invest in anything now because 0:40:10.239 --> 0:40:14.480 I run a bloody podcast. Can't do anything. You can't 0:40:14.520 --> 0:40:16.720 short ship. It's like the big short. But Steve Goss 0:40:16.760 --> 0:40:17.879 just like, well, I'll just go home. 0:40:17.920 --> 0:40:20.680 I guess. I think like we have to give give 0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:22.000 credit to the to the entire thing. 0:40:22.000 --> 0:40:24.520 First of all, the marketing approach to AI has been 0:40:24.560 --> 0:40:27.000 really frustrating because everything is a I know, stuff that 0:40:27.120 --> 0:40:30.440 was that existed before in its has been ported directly 0:40:30.520 --> 0:40:34.320 and unchanged and just rebranded as AI, just much in 0:40:34.360 --> 0:40:34.759 the same way. 0:40:34.800 --> 0:40:36.600 I think somebody brought up to me at the at 0:40:36.640 --> 0:40:38.880 the John Deere event I was just at because we 0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:40.240 will not be talking about okay. 0:40:41.239 --> 0:40:42.160 I had so many. 0:40:42.040 --> 0:40:43.040 Questions somebody brought up. 0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:44.640 I was like, yeah, it's like slapping a non GMO 0:40:44.800 --> 0:40:47.160 label on an unchanged box of wheat. 0:40:47.200 --> 0:40:47.520 Things like. 0:40:47.560 --> 0:40:49.719 It's like, okay, well, AI is just being marketed much 0:40:49.719 --> 0:40:52.359 too aggressively, so you have stuff stuck in here, kind 0:40:52.400 --> 0:40:53.919 of getting caught in the in the flat. 0:40:54.000 --> 0:40:55.400 That's like, that's really. 0:40:55.239 --> 0:40:58.200 Useful, But it's it's these It's a seasoning that you 0:40:58.280 --> 0:41:01.480 put on something that is already Yeah, it's not in 0:41:01.520 --> 0:41:04.280 itself a self contained thing capable of driving a whole 0:41:04.320 --> 0:41:07.960 new range of especially gadgets, which again makes me very 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:10.879 sad because every time you would touch a new AI, 0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:13.959 I think the a the plod note, that little self 0:41:14.000 --> 0:41:16.800 contained AI voice recorder, was like, this is very cool. 0:41:16.880 --> 0:41:19.200 I wish it were an alternate Universe in the year 0:41:19.200 --> 0:41:21.120 two thousand and I could actually get excited about this 0:41:21.239 --> 0:41:23.360 because what this is is a feature that belongs in 0:41:23.400 --> 0:41:26.200 the Google recorder and oh sorry, I just finished this 0:41:26.280 --> 0:41:28.600 video and that's exactly what Google built in to their 0:41:28.600 --> 0:41:31.160 recorder when that was done, and I was like, okay, 0:41:31.239 --> 0:41:33.560 well with that for now. 0:41:33.719 --> 0:41:35.879 Yeah, it's bummer pivots A. 0:41:36.680 --> 0:41:38.640 Yeah everybody, I mean yeah, I think they're just going 0:41:38.680 --> 0:41:42.640 to pivot back and forth. Everybody's gonna be constant oscillating 0:41:42.800 --> 0:41:46.840 until like something sticks because they're so desperate for that 0:41:46.920 --> 0:41:50.000 next thing. They're so eager that everybody's just looking for 0:41:50.040 --> 0:41:53.040 the money. They know it somewhere, and like, right now 0:41:53.040 --> 0:41:55.759 it is all a Nvidia stock and they're hoping that 0:41:55.800 --> 0:41:57.880 it will somehow come to them at some point. 0:41:58.239 --> 0:42:00.600 Why not you, I don't know, It's like, why not 0:42:00.640 --> 0:42:02.840 build some fucking hardware to put video stuff in? I 0:42:02.880 --> 0:42:04.839 realized those black mail chips aren't what we're talking about, 0:42:04.840 --> 0:42:07.520 But I don't know. It's almost as if no one 0:42:07.560 --> 0:42:09.319 wants to do the work in the middle. They're like, 0:42:09.440 --> 0:42:11.880 I've got an idea and I need to make a product. 0:42:12.280 --> 0:42:15.359 Can I skip the middle part? It's boring, it's expensive. 0:42:15.520 --> 0:42:17.360 It takes forever. I need to have this shit on 0:42:17.480 --> 0:42:19.160 the market in six months and it can't be. And 0:42:19.920 --> 0:42:21.719 if it is, the growth that all costs for our 0:42:21.719 --> 0:42:24.080 economy over in about a hundred times. But it's also 0:42:24.120 --> 0:42:26.760 frustrating because I actually think, if they put in the effort, 0:42:26.800 --> 0:42:29.200 this would be cool. When it comes to AI. Part 0:42:29.200 --> 0:42:31.319 of my frustration comes back to that thing we were 0:42:31.320 --> 0:42:34.920 saying earlier about how we've been let down, because I 0:42:34.960 --> 0:42:38.880 would actually love it if I could reliably tell my 0:42:38.960 --> 0:42:42.200 phone to take distinct actions. Send the calendar invite to 0:42:42.680 --> 0:42:46.200 Alex and Michael, Yes, three pm at the iHeartRadio studio, 0:42:46.400 --> 0:42:49.560 and just fucking send it and it would know how 0:42:49.840 --> 0:42:52.359 Maybe it goes do you want Eastern apecific time? Or wait? 0:42:52.440 --> 0:42:55.120 I said, New York you already know. And it sends 0:42:55.160 --> 0:42:57.400 the invites and it finds your emails. That would be useful. 0:42:57.640 --> 0:43:00.400 I wish in my regular email job, I can have 0:43:00.440 --> 0:43:03.319 it through the spreadsheets and the documents. It can't. It 0:43:03.360 --> 0:43:06.680 can't actually do these things. Yeah, and this please make 0:43:06.760 --> 0:43:08.279 that the future. No, it isn't the future. We need 0:43:08.320 --> 0:43:10.440 to They can't even describe what it is, and it's just. 0:43:10.440 --> 0:43:12.440 Well, because it can't do that future yet, right, Like, 0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:15.560 there's the things we have now. The thing that everybody 0:43:15.600 --> 0:43:19.600 got really excited about was they released GPT three point five. 0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:23.440 Everybody went, oh, crap, this can write this can write stuff, 0:43:23.480 --> 0:43:26.440 and it can write it not like garbage for once, 0:43:26.560 --> 0:43:29.320 and this is huge. And all of the researchers just 0:43:29.440 --> 0:43:31.120 roll their eyes because they'd seen this for ages. They 0:43:31.120 --> 0:43:32.439 were like, yeah, it's a larg language bottle. 0:43:32.480 --> 0:43:32.960 That's what they do. 0:43:33.200 --> 0:43:36.800 They calm down and everybody's like no, And then the 0:43:36.840 --> 0:43:41.120 downloads increased, the downloads increase, and everybody's like, wait, I 0:43:41.160 --> 0:43:44.440 think there's some money here, right, and let's just like 0:43:44.840 --> 0:43:47.759 ride this hype just right into the ground as long 0:43:47.800 --> 0:43:49.359 as we can write it as long as we can 0:43:49.440 --> 0:43:50.400 until it gets it around. 0:43:50.880 --> 0:43:57.000 And that's pretty much what happened just right. 0:43:57.120 --> 0:43:59.279 Yeah, I'm trying to im like I'm still you know, 0:43:59.440 --> 0:44:02.480 I'm way between like the stuff that that we're all 0:44:02.480 --> 0:44:04.560 talking about and then the stuff that I see again 0:44:04.640 --> 0:44:06.080 in these little flashes of. 0:44:06.040 --> 0:44:08.640 Like what I'll be on a trip with and Kevin 0:44:08.640 --> 0:44:10.000 neither will be. I'll be like what are you doing? 0:44:10.080 --> 0:44:11.919 He's like, well, I have a cold, so I can't 0:44:11.920 --> 0:44:14.480 do voiceover for my video, but I built a model 0:44:14.520 --> 0:44:16.480 of my own voice, so now all I have to 0:44:16.520 --> 0:44:18.440 do is type in something and script and the model 0:44:18.760 --> 0:44:20.360 in my voice reads into the audience. 0:44:20.360 --> 0:44:22.720 And I'm like, well that's useful. Cool, all right, Well. 0:44:22.600 --> 0:44:25.560 You don't bookmark that like generative fill stuff where it's 0:44:25.600 --> 0:44:27.600 like it's not like I'm typing into mid journey, Like 0:44:27.640 --> 0:44:31.440 make me a photo of a high turtle eating macaroni 0:44:31.440 --> 0:44:35.200 and cheese while watch It's like, no, I mean that 0:44:35.280 --> 0:44:37.960 is al yeah, but like when you wrote it a photo, right, 0:44:38.000 --> 0:44:39.719 and you have to fill in the stuff with with 0:44:39.800 --> 0:44:41.400 fake scenery just to make it look okay, so you 0:44:41.400 --> 0:44:42.279 can run a blog post. 0:44:42.280 --> 0:44:45.080 It's like, that's useful. So there's these little Yeah, there's. 0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:47.400 A lot of these smaller things that could be super 0:44:47.440 --> 0:44:50.040 super useful, but that's not what they want to focus 0:44:50.040 --> 0:44:53.040 on because that takes actual work. That takes there's more 0:44:53.040 --> 0:44:54.120 development than needs to happen. 0:44:54.400 --> 0:44:56.880 You're already big enough that you've bought whatever little company 0:44:56.960 --> 0:44:58.720 came up with that, and you've built like you're Adobe. 0:44:58.719 --> 0:44:59.360 You build it in a. 0:44:59.320 --> 0:45:03.200 Photoshop, so then everybody hates you because you're Adobe. 0:45:03.320 --> 0:45:05.680 I think it's almost like they are really good at 0:45:05.680 --> 0:45:09.440 features but terrible at Products like these aren't useful because 0:45:09.480 --> 0:45:13.040 the actual user interface of phones is really good and 0:45:13.080 --> 0:45:16.720 also very bad. I will lose what I am doing 0:45:16.800 --> 0:45:20.000 on my phone sometimes I have five hundred and eighty 0:45:20.000 --> 0:45:23.520 seven Safari taps up. That doesn't surprise because the UX 0:45:23.640 --> 0:45:26.960 on there is so wonky and it's so like It's 0:45:27.000 --> 0:45:29.160 not like on a computer where you have like like 0:45:29.200 --> 0:45:31.640 a Actually that was just like close crum taps on 0:45:31.640 --> 0:45:34.560 my computer too. But I don't lose shit as much, 0:45:34.600 --> 0:45:38.439 but I still do on the computer. Yeah, I don't 0:45:38.440 --> 0:45:41.160 miss meetings because I generally force myself to be on time, 0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:46.160 as I was not today. And it's the fact that 0:45:46.200 --> 0:45:48.440 I have to moderate so much of this stuff. Yet 0:45:48.440 --> 0:45:51.160 everyone's talking about AI. That really pisses me off. Why 0:45:51.160 --> 0:45:55.239 can the phone? If AI is the goddamn future, why 0:45:55.280 --> 0:45:56.600 are we so far from well. 0:45:56.719 --> 0:45:59.000 The other part of that is the security and privacy, 0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:02.440 like we just saw as we're recording this earlier today, 0:46:02.600 --> 0:46:05.040 Apple said, actually, a bunch of these features that we 0:46:05.080 --> 0:46:08.960 announced at WWDC, like Apple Intelligence, which is gonna make 0:46:09.000 --> 0:46:11.279 Siri like do a lot of the stuff we all 0:46:11.280 --> 0:46:14.680 want it to do. They're not coming to Europe because 0:46:14.760 --> 0:46:17.240 the DMA and they're like, oh, you know, we're worried. 0:46:17.280 --> 0:46:20.719 It's gonna like do something about the privacy recall is 0:46:20.760 --> 0:46:23.560 another example that was the Windows feature where it was like, 0:46:23.680 --> 0:46:25.120 what if we just to me. 0:46:25.280 --> 0:46:27.160 I was editing our post for it, and I was like, 0:46:27.239 --> 0:46:27.880 this rules. 0:46:27.880 --> 0:46:29.640 I didn't even think about security because I was like, oh, 0:46:29.640 --> 0:46:31.319 it's going to take a picture and I'm just gonna know. 0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:33.200 And I'm like I'd recently been trying to look for 0:46:33.200 --> 0:46:34.719 a text message from ten years ago. 0:46:34.800 --> 0:46:36.719 So it is feeling very like this is. 0:46:36.680 --> 0:46:40.040 Perfect for me specifically, and then everybody's like, this is 0:46:40.080 --> 0:46:42.920 the worst thing to ever happen in my life. 0:46:43.000 --> 0:46:46.479 What's great about as well is they didn't actually solve 0:46:46.520 --> 0:46:50.800 the real problem, which was search searching for things. Spotlight 0:46:50.920 --> 0:46:53.360 is actually really good, yeah, but it's not good enough. Nope, 0:46:53.880 --> 0:46:55.680 it could just be a little bit better. Searching for 0:46:55.719 --> 0:46:58.080 stuff on your messages could be better. That would require 0:46:58.120 --> 0:47:00.000 them to make that better. They're like, now, why feature? 0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:02.480 What we did is what we just call it, like, 0:47:02.600 --> 0:47:05.040 just wrote it down, Well, just wrote down literally everything 0:47:05.080 --> 0:47:06.640 you've ever done I got in a. 0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:09.400 Plain text file, and then we'll just use AI to 0:47:09.440 --> 0:47:12.160 train on that and it'll be great. Yeah, and like, yeah, 0:47:12.160 --> 0:47:14.000 that is definitely a solution. 0:47:15.080 --> 0:47:16.480 It's reminding me of something. 0:47:16.480 --> 0:47:20.319 I switched to a text message provider like fifteen years ago, 0:47:20.880 --> 0:47:24.160 and I was intoxicated by the prospect of being able 0:47:24.160 --> 0:47:26.319 to search all of my text messages for all time, 0:47:26.520 --> 0:47:28.480 which I've done a few times, and over the of 0:47:28.480 --> 0:47:29.880 course of the past like two years, I've been like, 0:47:30.360 --> 0:47:32.080 I must delete that entire archive. 0:47:33.239 --> 0:47:34.800 Yeah, it's just a massive liability. 0:47:34.880 --> 0:47:37.400 I have all white emails, but my text Yeah, no, 0:47:37.480 --> 0:47:38.279 I keep all of them. 0:47:38.360 --> 0:47:41.080 Don't worry, guys and I will go down together. 0:47:41.160 --> 0:47:43.000 Yeah, well I'm taking everybody. 0:47:43.200 --> 0:47:44.520 You're indicted all. 0:47:46.239 --> 0:47:48.520 Yeah, I hopefully please don't indict me. 0:47:49.320 --> 0:47:52.080 Government, Please don't indict anyone who's own better off line. Yeah, 0:47:52.239 --> 0:48:06.480 thanks you request. So, returning from a commercial break that 0:48:06.520 --> 0:48:11.799 I'll announce next time. It's just I wonder if it's 0:48:11.800 --> 0:48:14.040 something to do with the venture capital climate, but not 0:48:14.120 --> 0:48:18.200 just that they don't want to invest in things that 0:48:18.200 --> 0:48:20.719 aren't going to grow huge, but also I think they're 0:48:20.800 --> 0:48:24.960 scared of hardware. They just the concept of hardware is expensive. 0:48:25.080 --> 0:48:27.640 It's expensive. But also, like you've been saying, there's not 0:48:27.680 --> 0:48:30.560 really a platform like there is if you own the 0:48:30.560 --> 0:48:32.759 hardware device, but you need to come up with some 0:48:32.880 --> 0:48:34.880 noxious way to charge them more. 0:48:35.280 --> 0:48:38.319 Yeah, everybody is obsessed with how do we get that 0:48:38.360 --> 0:48:41.359 extra that extra money. Right with the exception of some 0:48:41.400 --> 0:48:43.360 hardware in this room currently, thank you very much that 0:48:46.680 --> 0:48:52.040 we just had an ad break, But for the most part, 0:48:52.040 --> 0:48:53.719 everybody is obsessed with us. When we saw those with 0:48:53.800 --> 0:48:55.279 video games, I think that's one of that was like 0:48:55.360 --> 0:48:56.919 one of the first ones we saw it with where 0:48:56.920 --> 0:48:59.759 they're like, what if we charge you just to play 0:48:59.760 --> 0:49:03.040 one with your friends even though it doesn't cost us 0:49:03.280 --> 0:49:04.400 anything to do that? 0:49:04.600 --> 0:49:06.320 Really well, I mean customer. 0:49:06.960 --> 0:49:10.040 I think it became with it became Jesus Christ began 0:49:10.280 --> 0:49:13.120 with the game. It was Moro wind Or obliving that 0:49:13.160 --> 0:49:15.600 they had the horse armor. That was the big moment. 0:49:15.600 --> 0:49:18.840 They charged two ninety nine for some armor for your horse. 0:49:18.880 --> 0:49:19.520 Did you get it? 0:49:19.760 --> 0:49:23.040 No, maybe the oldes scrolls online, but nevertheless, that was 0:49:23.080 --> 0:49:26.120 the moment when it But they were like and then we. 0:49:26.120 --> 0:49:27.719 Got the more micro transactions. 0:49:27.719 --> 0:49:29.120 They're like, oh, do you want to do a cool 0:49:29.160 --> 0:49:34.120 little like handwave and Destiny five dollars and I paid it, 0:49:34.360 --> 0:49:36.520 Unlike you, I paid the five dollars. I was like, 0:49:36.560 --> 0:49:37.560 take my money, Bungee. 0:49:37.560 --> 0:49:40.759 I'm sorry, since we're talking about old timey things. The 0:49:40.800 --> 0:49:44.040 first time I encountered this was with Napster, when Napster 0:49:44.080 --> 0:49:44.720 went legit. 0:49:44.920 --> 0:49:46.680 Do you remember that very brief moment. 0:49:46.600 --> 0:49:50.520 You were still with Napster when it went No, I MOVEDND. 0:49:49.880 --> 0:49:51.760 To it now because you know, I'd done the linewired 0:49:51.800 --> 0:49:54.520 and because I ruined several computers. Yes, And then Napster 0:49:54.600 --> 0:49:56.719 comes out and it's like, hey, we're going legit. Just 0:49:56.760 --> 0:49:59.000 pay us this very affordable monthly fee and you get 0:49:59.000 --> 0:50:00.000 onlimited music. I'm my great. 0:50:00.280 --> 0:50:01.759 And then I got to the part of the you know, 0:50:01.800 --> 0:50:03.520 front page. It's like, yeah, and if you ever stop 0:50:03.560 --> 0:50:05.200 paying us, you will lose access to all that music. 0:50:05.280 --> 0:50:08.000 I'm like, what, Yeah, it's two thousand and six and 0:50:08.040 --> 0:50:08.520 what is this? 0:50:08.840 --> 0:50:11.120 And now that's how Spotify works exactly. 0:50:11.200 --> 0:50:13.200 Yes, now you have a free account. 0:50:13.320 --> 0:50:17.320 So yeah, I don't pay for Spotify because I'm an influence. 0:50:17.400 --> 0:50:20.480 Yeah, I pay for Apple Music. 0:50:20.480 --> 0:50:23.120 I'm like, really, I get it through my phone bill 0:50:23.239 --> 0:50:23.840 for some reason. 0:50:24.280 --> 0:50:25.080 That's good. 0:50:25.320 --> 0:50:27.319 Yeah, it's great. So I'm like, I do I pay 0:50:27.360 --> 0:50:28.400 for it? But unclear? 0:50:28.640 --> 0:50:31.799 But it's just weird because it feels like there are 0:50:31.920 --> 0:50:35.440 very obvious problems that people have, Like phones are the 0:50:35.520 --> 0:50:38.120 whole stop using your phone thing is stupid. Okay in 0:50:38.160 --> 0:50:39.719 the top list that b I had a really good piece, 0:50:39.800 --> 0:50:41.040 or it's like I love my phone, I love being 0:50:41.080 --> 0:50:43.359 on my phone. Yeah, the problem is there's too much 0:50:43.360 --> 0:50:45.960 shit in it. And that doesn't mean Google, I need 0:50:46.000 --> 0:50:48.000 you to search for me. You're also not good in it. 0:50:48.520 --> 0:50:52.200 But it's the I feel like they are selling us 0:50:52.320 --> 0:50:55.440 back the idea of interfaces, except they're not even doing it. 0:50:55.440 --> 0:50:58.239 They're not actually automating anything. That's the thing with the 0:50:58.239 --> 0:51:00.560 AI That is the problem of aither than all the 0:51:00.560 --> 0:51:03.759 other ones, which is it's not doing anything for me. 0:51:03.880 --> 0:51:07.319 What is it doing when even the Apple Intelligence thing 0:51:07.600 --> 0:51:10.400 just did an episode on excited about the prospect of 0:51:10.400 --> 0:51:13.560 what they could do, but also they didn't actually say 0:51:13.680 --> 0:51:16.400 much Siri can do actions across multiplaps. 0:51:16.640 --> 0:51:18.840 And also it's not coming until well after. 0:51:18.680 --> 0:51:21.000 Launch, right is it Jesus Christ? 0:51:21.080 --> 0:51:21.279 Yeah? 0:51:21.680 --> 0:51:23.560 Or some of the features they were really like they 0:51:23.600 --> 0:51:26.399 weren't clear on which features are coming immediately, which or later. 0:51:26.600 --> 0:51:31.160 Just this obfuscation and it's almost I mean, because that 0:51:31.239 --> 0:51:33.040 was WWTC Google Io. 0:51:33.160 --> 0:51:36.319 We just finished this big developer conference season. And while 0:51:36.360 --> 0:51:39.239 it was ostensibly for developers and ostensibly for the rest 0:51:39.239 --> 0:51:42.080 of us, and it should have been developers, because never 0:51:42.200 --> 0:51:45.359 has the relationship between these platforms and developers been more. 0:51:45.360 --> 0:51:47.839 Fraud stuff that's happening in Europe with the DMA has 0:51:47.840 --> 0:51:50.960 made it really, really difficult, And instead it was for 0:51:51.360 --> 0:51:54.000 investors m hm and saying here, we've got we've got 0:51:54.000 --> 0:51:54.879 our AI thing too. 0:51:54.920 --> 0:51:56.640 We are in on the hype and you don't have 0:51:56.680 --> 0:51:57.600 to be like. 0:51:57.760 --> 0:52:00.359 We talked about I'm gonna do a little plug here. 0:52:00.360 --> 0:52:04.239 We talked about this on the Verge cast the Verges Sorry, 0:52:04.440 --> 0:52:09.200 what what where? Where I sometimes talk about stuff too, 0:52:09.600 --> 0:52:11.799 And we talked about it over there, and it was 0:52:11.800 --> 0:52:13.799 really really clear that they just they'd done this for 0:52:13.840 --> 0:52:16.839 the investors and if they hadn't been doing AI this year, 0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:18.600 and it was really clear that that was kind of 0:52:18.600 --> 0:52:21.520 bolted on. Everybody would be talking about how stupid and 0:52:21.680 --> 0:52:24.560 dumb and delightful your phone looks because you can change 0:52:24.560 --> 0:52:27.000 the color on it now, right, like you can change 0:52:27.000 --> 0:52:29.520 the user in our face, and like there was these 0:52:29.560 --> 0:52:31.759 cool moments that happened and they just were like no, no, no, 0:52:31.800 --> 0:52:33.280 forget that AI. 0:52:34.960 --> 0:52:35.920 Yeah, go go on. 0:52:36.080 --> 0:52:36.799 No, no, man, that's it. 0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:39.200 I mean like, it's that And that has been the 0:52:39.200 --> 0:52:41.440 case since I got into this business. Right, It's like 0:52:41.680 --> 0:52:43.480 you go to a show and well, what's the theme 0:52:43.560 --> 0:52:45.160 this year? You know, and I think, well, saw the 0:52:45.239 --> 0:52:48.400 seeds of this soone in twenty seventeen when Google first spent. 0:52:48.360 --> 0:52:50.400 Like half of Google io talking about bots. 0:52:51.920 --> 0:52:53.600 Yeah, what are you doing here? 0:52:53.719 --> 0:52:55.759 I think it was the same year that Facebook when 0:52:55.760 --> 0:52:57.560 they did f eight was it fate? 0:52:57.640 --> 0:52:57.759 Oh? 0:52:58.440 --> 0:53:01.279 And they're like, we're going to revolutionized the world with 0:53:01.719 --> 0:53:03.839 chat bots in Facebook? 0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:04.960 Where are those? 0:53:06.120 --> 0:53:09.400 Was the m assistant right with with Facebook? 0:53:11.800 --> 0:53:14.600 It was so but there's always there's always that big, 0:53:14.680 --> 0:53:18.080 you know, overarching theme, and it's again to your point, Yes, 0:53:18.080 --> 0:53:20.640 it is to you know, curry favor with with investors 0:53:20.640 --> 0:53:22.920 and make sure no, Google's not being left behind. We 0:53:22.960 --> 0:53:25.400 can't afford to be seen as being left behind. And 0:53:25.440 --> 0:53:28.440 then you know, you get the search query that the 0:53:28.920 --> 0:53:30.880 glue on pizza stuff, the go eat rocks thing, and 0:53:30.920 --> 0:53:32.520 of course they've got an egg on their face now 0:53:32.520 --> 0:53:36.600 because and I cannot, for the life of me understand 0:53:36.640 --> 0:53:42.160 why no one internally said hey stop, let's let's actually because. 0:53:41.840 --> 0:53:44.080 Google is one of the biggest companies in the world, 0:53:44.160 --> 0:53:44.560 and it is. 0:53:44.560 --> 0:53:45.560 A nightmare to work in. 0:53:45.840 --> 0:53:46.360 I've heard that. 0:53:46.480 --> 0:53:46.680 Yeah. 0:53:46.719 --> 0:53:49.680 Tony Fiddell, who built like Nest and all of that stuff, 0:53:49.719 --> 0:53:52.600 he wrote a book that was all about how he 0:53:52.600 --> 0:53:56.640 he knows business and one of the really actually interesting 0:53:56.640 --> 0:53:58.799 parts in it is how his just relationship with Google 0:53:58.880 --> 0:54:01.719 collapsed after he was was acquired. They acquire a Nest 0:54:02.160 --> 0:54:06.000 and then like immediately, you know, his boss is like, actually, 0:54:06.000 --> 0:54:07.560 I'm not your boss anymore. This guy over here is 0:54:07.600 --> 0:54:09.680 your boss. You're doing this, And then that guy's like, oh, 0:54:09.920 --> 0:54:12.239 actually you're doing this. And it was just constantly changing 0:54:12.239 --> 0:54:16.120 because it's such a big amorphous, right thing. Yeah, And 0:54:16.200 --> 0:54:18.400 like a lot of these companies are that way. Google's 0:54:18.400 --> 0:54:20.680 probably the worst at it. Amazon's pretty bad at it. 0:54:20.760 --> 0:54:23.680 Apple is generally pretty good at it. Apple's whole thing 0:54:23.760 --> 0:54:26.480 is just like the culture of the place can sometimes 0:54:26.560 --> 0:54:30.200 get in the way. It's a cultish, yeah, and Google 0:54:30.280 --> 0:54:31.920 is also a cult. But it's like, what if we 0:54:31.920 --> 0:54:34.640 were like a big kind of disorganized. 0:54:34.320 --> 0:54:38.080 There also run By Show regular listeners and now McKenzie 0:54:38.160 --> 0:54:41.680 graduate sound off as shy. What confuses me is like 0:54:41.719 --> 0:54:44.680 Liz Reid has been there like decades search chief now 0:54:44.800 --> 0:54:47.480 but also her boss is probably a Ragavan who form 0:54:47.520 --> 0:54:50.080 ahead of ads who also used to run Yahoo. Please 0:54:50.120 --> 0:54:50.880 listen to the episode. 0:54:50.920 --> 0:54:51.680 Great episode. 0:54:51.840 --> 0:54:54.839 Arguably the weirdest thing I ever discovered off of them 0:54:54.840 --> 0:54:58.440 what I see in the mirror. Anyway, It's just it's 0:54:58.480 --> 0:55:01.440 frustrating as well, because you can they must have no shame, 0:55:01.480 --> 0:55:03.960 They must legitimately just be like who gives this ship? 0:55:04.200 --> 0:55:06.960 Like the only way you you are able to release 0:55:07.080 --> 0:55:11.200 products this bad is when you just to your point, 0:55:11.360 --> 0:55:15.160 it was for investors, but now the company is for investors. Yeah, 0:55:15.200 --> 0:55:17.239 because I think that that is the rootic on that's 0:55:17.239 --> 0:55:17.880 being crossed. 0:55:17.920 --> 0:55:20.319 That's why like someone like Panos Pinet who's now at 0:55:20.560 --> 0:55:24.960 Amazon or or Steve Jobs had these like was Panas 0:55:25.000 --> 0:55:28.160 pine used to ran the Surface department, ran all of 0:55:28.160 --> 0:55:30.480 the surface products at Microsoft for years. 0:55:30.640 --> 0:55:33.160 One of the gifted presenters at press events. 0:55:33.320 --> 0:55:35.920 I mean, he knows how to present things, and he 0:55:36.160 --> 0:55:38.400 really understands how to build these things, and and it 0:55:38.560 --> 0:55:40.120 like I think he made a real moment with the 0:55:40.160 --> 0:55:42.319 Surface because he cares about the products. And he's now 0:55:42.360 --> 0:55:44.560 at Amazon and they won't let me talk to him. 0:55:44.560 --> 0:55:46.000 And it's fine. I'm okay with it. 0:55:46.480 --> 0:55:48.640 But and that's because he's going and like, okay, we've 0:55:48.680 --> 0:55:51.560 got to fix Amazon's like product lineup, because. 0:55:51.360 --> 0:55:52.759 It's it's what if it was good? 0:55:52.920 --> 0:55:53.919 Yeah, what if it was good? 0:55:54.280 --> 0:55:56.640 And and and you see that and but those are 0:55:56.680 --> 0:55:58.920 the rare guys, right, Like the reason these people are 0:55:58.920 --> 0:56:01.960 so beloved is because they do care. Jony I have 0:56:02.520 --> 0:56:04.680 terrible ideas a lot of times. Apparently it was like 0:56:04.760 --> 0:56:06.880 his idea to put the eyes in the vision pro. 0:56:07.760 --> 0:56:13.680 Oh really, yeah, I would be lies. Yeah, what if 0:56:13.960 --> 0:56:15.760 what if the watch was a triangle? No? 0:56:15.760 --> 0:56:18.600 No, that's the rest of it. 0:56:19.360 --> 0:56:21.120 By the way, I want to see Jony I have 0:56:21.160 --> 0:56:23.400 Apparently Sam Wrtman really badly wants to make a device 0:56:23.440 --> 0:56:26.120 with them. Yeah, honestly, give them as much money as 0:56:26.160 --> 0:56:27.759 they want. I will see what I want. I want 0:56:27.800 --> 0:56:31.399 to see the homomobile. Ask Gadget that these idiots passed. 0:56:31.200 --> 0:56:33.399 Zero ports, zero display. 0:56:33.400 --> 0:56:34.360 Call it the hexagon. 0:56:35.520 --> 0:56:36.560 You just think at it. 0:56:36.560 --> 0:56:39.560 It's a new new type of Bluetooth device. You can 0:56:39.560 --> 0:56:45.080 connect your Bluetooth devices. I think, oh shit, it just 0:56:45.239 --> 0:56:49.680 looks gorgeous. I'm fine if things look good, but if 0:56:49.680 --> 0:56:51.440 they just completely useless. 0:56:51.480 --> 0:56:53.560 Yeah, no, no, I mean and and but that was 0:56:53.600 --> 0:56:55.520 the thing is like he's kind of like a lesser 0:56:55.520 --> 0:56:58.719 example because he does have some bad ideas. He's so 0:56:58.960 --> 0:57:02.160 about the minimalism and weirdness that it goes to like 0:57:02.239 --> 0:57:04.600 somebody tell him no. But that's why Steve works, That's 0:57:04.600 --> 0:57:05.799 why or Steve Jobs works. 0:57:05.840 --> 0:57:08.880 I don't know Steve Jobs. He's dead. That's why Steve 0:57:09.000 --> 0:57:09.600 Jobs works. 0:57:09.600 --> 0:57:12.399 That's why that's why panels work was because they they 0:57:12.440 --> 0:57:13.680 can actual they actually. 0:57:13.360 --> 0:57:15.600 Care about the products. They actually want to make something good. 0:57:15.920 --> 0:57:18.600 And most of the time now, like Tim Cook, I'm 0:57:18.640 --> 0:57:20.680 sure he cares about the product because he is the 0:57:20.760 --> 0:57:23.120 CEO and he has to make money and and and 0:57:23.200 --> 0:57:25.360 please his investors and stuff. But he is a supply 0:57:25.440 --> 0:57:28.800 chains guy. 0:57:27.400 --> 0:57:29.880 Right Like I also feel like apples laptops have been 0:57:29.880 --> 0:57:30.160 really good. 0:57:30.200 --> 0:57:32.840 Their phones they have gotten They've gotten really good because 0:57:32.920 --> 0:57:36.360 everybody was like slagging on the laptops being like their garbage. 0:57:36.400 --> 0:57:39.480 You haven't updated the MacBook Air, your most popular device 0:57:39.520 --> 0:57:41.880 in half a decade, do something, and they're like, oh, 0:57:42.000 --> 0:57:44.720 we we probably should and then but they only really 0:57:44.720 --> 0:57:46.400 did it when they actually had they could put their 0:57:46.400 --> 0:57:47.280 own process. 0:57:46.920 --> 0:57:50.320 Which is right, and silicons great that's the thing I 0:57:50.360 --> 0:57:54.440 think I'm my problem as I'm discovering in the middle 0:57:54.480 --> 0:57:55.280 of this conversation. 0:57:55.360 --> 0:57:55.880 I love this. 0:57:56.000 --> 0:57:58.040 That is good is that my problem is not with 0:57:58.120 --> 0:58:01.280 the devices because everyone who buys them, the millions of 0:58:01.280 --> 0:58:03.840 people who give Apple whatever it's three trillion dollar market 0:58:03.960 --> 0:58:06.520 cap or whatever it is right now, are very happy 0:58:06.760 --> 0:58:09.720 with them because they're very good products, and anytime they 0:58:09.760 --> 0:58:12.120 try something that I would like, Like, you know, for example, 0:58:12.360 --> 0:58:15.880 I thought the touch bar was kind of a fun idea. Yes, fun, 0:58:16.160 --> 0:58:19.240 but it creters and it's not supported in whatever you 0:58:19.240 --> 0:58:21.800 get this developer thing. But there are no options anymore 0:58:21.880 --> 0:58:24.200 for these types of products. Like your phone has to 0:58:24.240 --> 0:58:24.720 look like that. 0:58:24.760 --> 0:58:28.120 I'm pointing at Ed's iPhone fifty. Your phone has to 0:58:28.160 --> 0:58:28.640 look like that. 0:58:28.680 --> 0:58:30.520 And even if you go crazy and you make something 0:58:30.560 --> 0:58:32.360 that I really appreciate, like a foldable, which is one 0:58:32.400 --> 0:58:34.240 of the big reasons I still use Android phone because 0:58:34.240 --> 0:58:36.160 foldables change the way I use phones, and they're great, 0:58:36.440 --> 0:58:39.480 they still have to unfold into vaguely something that vaguely 0:58:39.960 --> 0:58:43.080 reminiscent of that rectangle and a laptop. 0:58:43.120 --> 0:58:45.400 Oh my god, we just saw qualcom. 0:58:45.000 --> 0:58:48.320 You know, processors introduced into like I don't know, seventeen 0:58:48.360 --> 0:58:50.640 new laptops from a bunch of new new companies, and 0:58:50.680 --> 0:58:54.080 they all look like the existing Intel powered laptops that 0:58:54.080 --> 0:58:55.400 they've been shipping forever. 0:58:55.840 --> 0:58:57.400 Because in most cases they just. 0:58:59.240 --> 0:59:02.480 Think, right, think, Microsoft and HP were like the only 0:59:02.480 --> 0:59:04.479 companies that do something new, but. 0:59:04.440 --> 0:59:08.360 Even that's not new, like you can get asues. God 0:59:08.440 --> 0:59:09.640 bless them. They make these. 0:59:09.520 --> 0:59:11.600 Crazy, weird laptops with multiple screens. 0:59:11.640 --> 0:59:14.240 You get these foldable screens, and honestly, those do they're 0:59:14.240 --> 0:59:17.720 not just they're not gimmicks, like they change the way 0:59:17.720 --> 0:59:20.000 you compute, and in some cases they are very very useful, 0:59:20.200 --> 0:59:22.240 but no one wanted to take a risk. No one 0:59:22.280 --> 0:59:25.040 wanted to take the affordance of all that space freed 0:59:25.160 --> 0:59:26.640 up by this arm based chip and like. 0:59:27.040 --> 0:59:28.560 The reduction of fan size and everything. 0:59:28.720 --> 0:59:32.479 No, they're just everyone's just being very conservative because same 0:59:32.520 --> 0:59:35.160 reason that phone makers only make white and black phones 0:59:35.160 --> 0:59:38.880 in quantity, because that's all people buy. We make clicks 0:59:38.880 --> 0:59:41.360 in a very fetching yellow color and that's thirty percent 0:59:41.400 --> 0:59:43.400 of them or something like that, because those people want 0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:48.200 white or black, right, And I get it, but I 0:59:48.240 --> 0:59:49.240 don't like it. 0:59:49.560 --> 0:59:53.040 I would encourage people to remember that fun can be 0:59:53.080 --> 0:59:55.920 a reason to consider a piece of technology. When did 0:59:55.920 --> 0:59:58.960 we decide that fun is not a priority in our 0:59:59.240 --> 1:00:00.720 in our like buying. 1:00:00.640 --> 1:00:04.200 When we decided selling more products matter more than selling 1:00:04.240 --> 1:00:05.480 cool products. 1:00:05.040 --> 1:00:06.360 And shareholder supremacy? 1:00:06.560 --> 1:00:08.160 Yeah likes. 1:00:08.280 --> 1:00:09.640 I agree with you both on the business side, but 1:00:09.680 --> 1:00:11.840 as consumers like when did when when did we just 1:00:11.880 --> 1:00:13.840 go like pick up a phones? Like I don't know, 1:00:14.280 --> 1:00:21.560 maybe I'm. 1:00:18.160 --> 1:00:21.320 Serious, it's but I think I think that is you. 1:00:21.440 --> 1:00:23.440 I don't say this in a bad way. You're right, Like, 1:00:23.480 --> 1:00:25.840 I understand what you feel that way. But it's their 1:00:25.920 --> 1:00:28.520 job to sell these things. It's their job to make 1:00:28.560 --> 1:00:34.360 these things us exactly. Like the two screen laptop is Lenovo, 1:00:34.560 --> 1:00:36.600 So these things are crazy. Like you've got the you've 1:00:36.640 --> 1:00:38.920 got the screen where your keyboard is, and then you 1:00:38.960 --> 1:00:42.160 have another screen. Make have a go at it, do 1:00:42.280 --> 1:00:45.120 a proper national campaign, make some weird choices for it, 1:00:45.160 --> 1:00:47.760 because that's not a mass device. But guess what, there 1:00:47.760 --> 1:00:50.280 are cool things you can do with it. Many people 1:00:50.400 --> 1:00:53.160 use two screens. Do a big enterprise push, do a 1:00:53.160 --> 1:00:55.600 big business push. When I see the AI, I p 1:00:55.720 --> 1:00:58.280 a ad that should be the double screen one's And 1:00:58.320 --> 1:01:01.840 what's weird is like Dell, for ex. That company was 1:01:02.040 --> 1:01:04.080 dog shit for a long time and now they're pretty 1:01:04.080 --> 1:01:07.240 good because they weren't. Why if we make good good computers, 1:01:07.880 --> 1:01:09.920 here's our computers you see. Yeah they dogshit, Well if 1:01:09.920 --> 1:01:13.160 they were good nah. And it's just and I think 1:01:13.200 --> 1:01:16.880 it's this disconnection of the company from the product on 1:01:17.000 --> 1:01:19.720 both a business and just a culture level, like the 1:01:19.760 --> 1:01:23.000 people building things like it's so weird to me that 1:01:23.080 --> 1:01:25.240 Meta made the ray bands because all of the people 1:01:25.280 --> 1:01:29.840 who run Facebook now so it's Mark Zuckerberg, Javier Olivant Coo, 1:01:30.080 --> 1:01:35.120 you've got Boz the ultimate growth, all costs, ass whole 1:01:35.880 --> 1:01:40.600 every terrorist attacks are justifiable for growth. Literally he said that. Yeah, 1:01:40.600 --> 1:01:43.080 it's really grim thing. Alex Schultz form of growth guy, 1:01:43.120 --> 1:01:45.480 all these a growth people. I'm shocked that there's anyone 1:01:45.520 --> 1:01:48.360 building anything in Facebook other than the Torment nexus and 1:01:48.400 --> 1:01:50.200 it's plugins. Well, that's because. 1:01:50.120 --> 1:01:52.240 Mark said built. 1:01:52.360 --> 1:01:55.919 You have to build me a hardware because nobody wants 1:01:56.080 --> 1:01:59.000 nobody like everybody hates us because we're terrible at software. 1:01:59.240 --> 1:02:01.080 You've got to go build me some cool hardware so 1:02:01.120 --> 1:02:02.880 I can get as far away from the phones as far. 1:02:03.000 --> 1:02:05.080 So I'm well for know only because you said he 1:02:05.120 --> 1:02:07.360 could build build me a hardware. But I could imagine 1:02:07.400 --> 1:02:10.360 Mark Zuckerberg, just like his cold dead eyes, looking to build. 1:02:10.200 --> 1:02:13.480 Me a hard I assume that is exactly just leaves. 1:02:13.720 --> 1:02:15.840 Yeah, killed it for me, slams the door. 1:02:16.440 --> 1:02:18.479 Honestly, I think if they brought back the HDC church 1:02:18.560 --> 1:02:19.360 it would do pretty well. 1:02:19.360 --> 1:02:20.800 Read church. 1:02:21.040 --> 1:02:21.200 Right. 1:02:21.520 --> 1:02:24.280 That was a physical quirity keyboard android phone with a 1:02:24.280 --> 1:02:27.480 Facebook button on it that would let you directly share. 1:02:27.360 --> 1:02:28.120 Tens of them. 1:02:28.160 --> 1:02:30.960 So absolutely it could be the new minimalist phone for 1:02:31.040 --> 1:02:32.959 the Facebook friendly. It could be the boomer phone. 1:02:33.000 --> 1:02:36.080 Oh my god, that's the boomer phone. 1:02:34.960 --> 1:02:40.360 The great call has one with just giant numbers still around, right, 1:02:40.560 --> 1:02:43.640 They're still around, owned by like a private equity phone, 1:02:43.680 --> 1:02:44.560 so not for long. 1:02:44.640 --> 1:02:47.240 Yeah, I was like, that's that's a They'll be sold. 1:02:47.000 --> 1:02:49.560 To a barbecue company also buy a private equity. 1:02:49.640 --> 1:02:51.680 Marina will buy it next year. I don't worry about it. 1:02:52.000 --> 1:02:53.960 Great things. What's funny though, is that see yes with 1:02:54.040 --> 1:02:55.600 the grill stuff. So, as some of you may know, 1:02:55.680 --> 1:02:59.240 I make excellent barbecue at home, I do smokers. I 1:02:59.280 --> 1:03:00.920 admit I got in a little bit of trouble at 1:03:00.920 --> 1:03:02.920 ce Yes Lustmora is there because I went up to 1:03:02.920 --> 1:03:05.360 these people, I started asking them grilling questions, not like 1:03:05.600 --> 1:03:07.120 being an asoer. I was like, so, how does this 1:03:07.200 --> 1:03:09.680 help with the cooking? Yeah, they're like, well, you see 1:03:09.720 --> 1:03:11.040 you go on the app and you can see recipes. 1:03:11.040 --> 1:03:17.800 I'm sure, but the device pause, Uh, well, you can 1:03:17.800 --> 1:03:19.760 connect it and Wi Fi. I'm like, excellent, then what 1:03:21.480 --> 1:03:24.240 And that's because you can't really innovate that anymore other 1:03:24.320 --> 1:03:27.920 than the combustion thermometer, which is incredible. It's made by 1:03:27.920 --> 1:03:30.040 a guy made a video a few years ago called 1:03:30.080 --> 1:03:32.480 your oven is a Liar and it's got eight I'm 1:03:32.480 --> 1:03:34.520 not connected with this. It's just excellent. I have too, 1:03:34.800 --> 1:03:36.640 has eight sensors in it so it can find the 1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:41.000 coldest point in your food. What like all my hate 1:03:41.320 --> 1:03:45.240 the various caters use my detractors on and you're saying 1:03:45.240 --> 1:03:49.360 I don't like anything. The combustion thermoters excellent, is so good. 1:03:49.880 --> 1:03:52.000 I finally got my bee ribs down with it. But 1:03:52.040 --> 1:03:54.240 that's the thing that one's a great example of solving 1:03:54.240 --> 1:03:57.080 an actual problem that most people they use the thermometer, 1:03:57.160 --> 1:04:00.320 they don't know where to put it and they don't 1:04:00.320 --> 1:04:01.880 know if they're in the right place. And there I 1:04:02.040 --> 1:04:05.280 personally and deeply anxious person, so constant anxiety, which is 1:04:05.280 --> 1:04:08.440 great for a twelve hour cook. With this, it works 1:04:08.520 --> 1:04:10.240 and it works really well, and there's not a bunch 1:04:10.280 --> 1:04:11.960 of other bullshit. It costs like one hundred and sixty 1:04:12.040 --> 1:04:15.240 nine bucks, so it's not cheap, but it solves a problem. Now, 1:04:15.280 --> 1:04:18.680 It's like you think with all of this money in 1:04:18.760 --> 1:04:22.640 AI or AR or all these things, they solve a problem. 1:04:22.680 --> 1:04:25.440 We've had very similar problems for like ten years. 1:04:26.040 --> 1:04:28.720 I think part of it is a lot of these 1:04:28.760 --> 1:04:32.600 people do not they think they're solving a problem, right right, Like, 1:04:32.640 --> 1:04:35.360 I think everybody in this room is probably a good 1:04:35.680 --> 1:04:38.920 We're good writers, right like, well that's part that's part 1:04:38.920 --> 1:04:39.320 of how. 1:04:39.200 --> 1:04:42.840 We make our living. Like when you're doing a video, yeah, 1:04:42.880 --> 1:04:45.720 you write the script like, we're good writers, right Like, 1:04:45.800 --> 1:04:47.440 this is a skill we have and we can do. 1:04:47.520 --> 1:04:50.240 If somebody sends us a horrible text message, we will 1:04:50.320 --> 1:04:52.680 grown because we don't want to answer it emotionally, but 1:04:52.720 --> 1:04:56.040 we'll still respond, like and we'll respond the hell out 1:04:56.080 --> 1:04:59.360 of it. It will be well written, right, well written. But 1:05:00.040 --> 1:05:02.600 these people don't value that because they think that's just 1:05:02.680 --> 1:05:06.000 that's a thing they can surmount with AI, right, like 1:05:06.360 --> 1:05:08.720 that's that is the thing for him. And I run 1:05:08.760 --> 1:05:10.240 into this like I was talking to a woman the 1:05:10.280 --> 1:05:13.800 other day who gave me the first legitimately good use 1:05:14.120 --> 1:05:15.280 for large language models. 1:05:15.760 --> 1:05:18.440 She had a really bad blind date and the guy sent. 1:05:18.320 --> 1:05:22.439 Her like a long, long email and she's like, read 1:05:22.440 --> 1:05:24.040 this email for me because I'm not going to read 1:05:24.040 --> 1:05:25.360 it because I don't want to go on another date 1:05:25.400 --> 1:05:30.040 with a guy. Then respond to it like politely saying saying, no, 1:05:30.080 --> 1:05:31.920 I don't want to see you again. And I was like, 1:05:32.840 --> 1:05:35.120 you figured it out that because like if you did 1:05:35.120 --> 1:05:37.400 that to me at work, I would be furious. 1:05:37.720 --> 1:05:40.480 Blind date, Yes, go, that's. 1:05:40.320 --> 1:05:42.720 No that that you're right and that is the more 1:05:42.800 --> 1:05:45.680 specifically than the only good example for it, Like it's 1:05:45.720 --> 1:05:48.400 the only good version of that demo that every company 1:05:48.760 --> 1:05:52.800 insists on thinking. It was just like, who's send a 1:05:52.840 --> 1:05:54.680 text to my wife and tell her that I'm going 1:05:54.720 --> 1:05:55.440 to be late for dinner. 1:05:55.600 --> 1:05:59.240 Now make me sound more sad about it. No, apologize, just. 1:05:59.200 --> 1:06:02.560 Text your wife. Just start why you start it? It's 1:06:02.600 --> 1:06:05.280 like more effort to do. It's ridiculous, And how do 1:06:05.320 --> 1:06:08.360 you even know what good is? You can't write right? Yeah, exactly. 1:06:10.200 --> 1:06:12.480 And I must also say, just as a note, there 1:06:12.520 --> 1:06:15.440 are people out there who have like cognitive disorders and 1:06:15.520 --> 1:06:19.200 learning learning disability called dyspraxia for example. It's physical, but 1:06:19.240 --> 1:06:21.920 there are people with dyslexia. Those are not When I 1:06:22.000 --> 1:06:24.240 say you should be able to write email, just to 1:06:24.240 --> 1:06:26.840 be really clear, not the people. I mean, you have 1:06:26.880 --> 1:06:29.760 an individualized problem. And I also must be clear, none 1:06:29.800 --> 1:06:32.240 of the AI companies give a rap fuck about you. 1:06:32.280 --> 1:06:34.200 They do not care that it's not you are not 1:06:34.280 --> 1:06:37.560 the person they are selling accessibility. They are selling to 1:06:37.600 --> 1:06:40.240 someone who does not exist that they made up right, Yeah, 1:06:40.360 --> 1:06:43.120 that is who it is. Because the rewrite stuff is crazy. 1:06:43.120 --> 1:06:46.800 And then the oh, I have these five ingredients in 1:06:46.840 --> 1:06:47.920 my kitchen. 1:06:48.000 --> 1:06:52.320 That's my favorite one something ever happened to someone you 1:06:52.360 --> 1:06:52.960 just only have. 1:06:53.120 --> 1:06:55.880 I mean, you can't work out what you like unless 1:06:55.920 --> 1:06:58.680 you've got I've got an onion, one piece of ham 1:06:59.360 --> 1:07:04.680 three nine of a human GPT. Like what is the 1:07:04.720 --> 1:07:07.800 situation where you can't look at it and go all right, fine, 1:07:08.320 --> 1:07:09.360 like I'll make a sandwich. 1:07:09.480 --> 1:07:11.400 Like because you're you're. 1:07:11.240 --> 1:07:15.120 You're imagining what they imagine when they're doing this is themselves. 1:07:15.320 --> 1:07:17.320 They're just like looking in the mirror and they're being like, Okay, 1:07:17.360 --> 1:07:20.240 I put on my little pad in your vest. I 1:07:19.160 --> 1:07:23.160 put on my little Bluetooth head set. I haven't looked 1:07:23.160 --> 1:07:26.760 at my spouse in three weeks. I'm gonna have my 1:07:26.840 --> 1:07:30.160 assistant text them. Oh ship, my assistant got laid off. Okay, 1:07:30.560 --> 1:07:33.040 I really wish I had an AI assistant who could 1:07:33.040 --> 1:07:37.560 text them so that they don't leave me, because they probably. 1:07:37.600 --> 1:07:39.600 Divorce would be quite messy, it would. 1:07:39.360 --> 1:07:41.840 Be expensive, they will take all of my stock, but 1:07:41.880 --> 1:07:44.880 I don't care. So yeah, and like that, I mean, 1:07:45.080 --> 1:07:47.200 that is a gross, gross exaggeration. 1:07:47.480 --> 1:07:52.280 There many of you lovely human Yeah, there are plenty 1:07:52.320 --> 1:07:54.520 people who have lovely relationships there, but that is like 1:07:54.600 --> 1:07:57.160 the thing there. They are they are very cynically going 1:07:57.200 --> 1:08:00.080 after this one group who to your. 1:08:00.200 --> 1:08:01.680 Earlier they're not talking to real people. 1:08:01.920 --> 1:08:04.680 They're not going out to like fucking middle of nowhere 1:08:04.840 --> 1:08:07.160 rule Nebraska and being like what do you think of this? 1:08:07.200 --> 1:08:10.760 Because they'll be like can it connect to the internet? Yeah, 1:08:10.840 --> 1:08:12.880 it needs the internet to do everything. Cool, I can't 1:08:13.000 --> 1:08:15.280 use it at all because I don't have internet. 1:08:15.600 --> 1:08:18.560 I wonder and I have a real question here, and 1:08:18.680 --> 1:08:22.360 like is it that so many problems have already been solved, 1:08:22.560 --> 1:08:25.160 that it's harder to find new ones like or that 1:08:25.240 --> 1:08:27.240 the new ones we find are too niche. 1:08:26.920 --> 1:08:29.519 And too narrow and too low because you can't dedicate 1:08:29.560 --> 1:08:32.160 Google's resources to solving like a. 1:08:31.760 --> 1:08:36.240 Fixable problem is I would love to just say, fix 1:08:36.280 --> 1:08:37.439 my schedule for the week. 1:08:37.520 --> 1:08:40.120 Oh, I mean same, right, Like that should be easy. 1:08:40.280 --> 1:08:43.240 Motion has been lying about this. I'm calling you out, Motion, 1:08:43.439 --> 1:08:46.320 you ossholes, all right, you motherfuckers. I see you on 1:08:46.360 --> 1:08:50.920 Instagram every goddamn day. I've supertaged my adhday with Motion. 1:08:51.160 --> 1:08:52.960 Fuck you, it's not how it works. You're a bunch 1:08:52.960 --> 1:08:55.880 of scumback. I'm so sorry. That's a little much. But you, 1:08:56.120 --> 1:08:58.920 like I loaded your goddamn product. It's like, I'll rearrange 1:08:58.960 --> 1:09:02.040 your schedule. I'm like, oh, it like tries to like 1:09:02.080 --> 1:09:04.800 suggest they do something once like that does not work? 1:09:04.840 --> 1:09:06.960 What the fuck you? And I just don't trust anymore 1:09:06.960 --> 1:09:08.880 and it doesn't do it. And I cannot find any 1:09:08.880 --> 1:09:11.639 real uses. I'm sure they exist, but that's the thing. 1:09:11.800 --> 1:09:14.479 It's that is a problem to be solved. But I 1:09:14.520 --> 1:09:19.280 also think you're right in the there are no big problems, right, 1:09:19.320 --> 1:09:21.680 I feel like no more lands the Conka. 1:09:21.280 --> 1:09:25.080 Tens of thousands of little problems and little niche like issues, 1:09:25.080 --> 1:09:26.840 and certainly stuff that I run into every day that 1:09:26.880 --> 1:09:29.160 shouldn't be a problem now that Google Home is what 1:09:29.240 --> 1:09:31.240 you know, over a decade old, and those things. 1:09:31.040 --> 1:09:35.160 Are just absolutely trash. But like, those are little things. 1:09:35.200 --> 1:09:36.920 There's one light in my room doesn't go off with 1:09:37.000 --> 1:09:39.720 the rest of it goes like no one's gonna those 1:09:39.760 --> 1:09:43.320 are troubleshooting bug fixes. Like we we're not doing this 1:09:43.400 --> 1:09:44.400 whole maps thing again. 1:09:44.439 --> 1:09:44.680 We're not. 1:09:44.760 --> 1:09:46.360 We're not saying like, hey, you know how it's hard 1:09:46.360 --> 1:09:47.479 to get around the city, or you know how you 1:09:47.520 --> 1:09:49.240 got to print out map quest directions, like no, we 1:09:49.720 --> 1:09:51.639 drove down every road on. 1:09:51.560 --> 1:09:53.200 The planet and now you have Google Maps. 1:09:53.280 --> 1:09:53.679 Yeah. 1:09:53.720 --> 1:09:56.880 Like I feel like those big ambitious problems just don't 1:09:57.680 --> 1:09:59.639 don't obviously present themselves. 1:10:00.240 --> 1:10:01.800 We do need to go back to this idea that 1:10:01.840 --> 1:10:03.519 there are no more lands to conquer. It's the thing 1:10:03.520 --> 1:10:07.200 I've talked about before, that there are no more big problems. 1:10:07.680 --> 1:10:09.760 And I think we're finally maybe this is the first 1:10:09.760 --> 1:10:12.280 time in history we're really being made to reckon with 1:10:12.320 --> 1:10:16.360 the fact of how these companies make money because it 1:10:16.760 --> 1:10:19.080 consumers are perhaps dealing with a death by a thousand 1:10:19.160 --> 1:10:22.759 cuts right now. It's the ten ten million little problems 1:10:22.760 --> 1:10:26.000 we face, which are usually a response, sorry, a result 1:10:26.240 --> 1:10:29.880 of technical debt. It's just things built on top of things. 1:10:30.200 --> 1:10:32.720 People I've talked to inside Google have said this, that 1:10:32.800 --> 1:10:35.320 they just build shit on top of other shit. Google 1:10:35.360 --> 1:10:38.240 Home one of the most evil apps of all time, 1:10:38.800 --> 1:10:42.040 invented by the devil to separate you from your thermostaff 1:10:42.439 --> 1:10:44.519 But that is a result of them being like, Okay, 1:10:44.520 --> 1:10:48.519 we've bought Nest Tony Fodell, Yeah, genius, genius guy. They've 1:10:48.520 --> 1:10:50.960 got these amazing They've revolutionized the smart I'm not sure 1:10:50.960 --> 1:10:53.600 if any of you remember when the Nest came in. 1:10:53.680 --> 1:10:55.799 That was a huge deal. You had this shitty honeywell 1:10:55.840 --> 1:10:57.559 thing and Nest actually worked and it work. It did 1:10:57.560 --> 1:10:59.600 exactly what you want to look. It looked cool, but 1:10:59.640 --> 1:11:02.559 it also they're very satisfying and guess what, it worked. 1:11:02.880 --> 1:11:05.400 It actually worked, and they went, wow, So we just 1:11:05.439 --> 1:11:08.599 bought Nest and they've got these cameras and they've got 1:11:08.600 --> 1:11:11.680 these thermostats and they work really well and the software 1:11:12.240 --> 1:11:16.519 pretty reliable. People like that, but we also have another 1:11:16.600 --> 1:11:21.280 app that people hate. What if we added the thing 1:11:21.400 --> 1:11:24.800 people liked to the thing people hate, then they will 1:11:24.800 --> 1:11:29.280 love it instead. I don't know what happened, what actually 1:11:29.280 --> 1:11:32.360 happens to thing I'm just describing, which is someone from 1:11:32.400 --> 1:11:36.040 Google absorbed Nest and then said, you are run by Steve. 1:11:36.160 --> 1:11:38.400 Now don't know if it's or her name was Steve, 1:11:38.880 --> 1:11:40.960 but you are run by this department, and we'll build 1:11:41.000 --> 1:11:42.800 on top of it. We'll connect all the bits of 1:11:42.880 --> 1:11:45.559 Nest into this app because we must have everything in 1:11:45.600 --> 1:11:49.680 one place. When you're not really solving problems other than 1:11:49.760 --> 1:11:54.680 company apps and making a feature work rather than a 1:11:54.760 --> 1:11:57.360 suite of things work. This is the result. And I 1:11:57.439 --> 1:11:59.880 think we're finally reaching a point where just there's not 1:12:00.080 --> 1:12:02.679 enough exciting stuff to hide from the fact that most 1:12:02.680 --> 1:12:06.960 computing experiences are cluttered and bad. Well that's many, many 1:12:07.040 --> 1:12:07.720 times of the day. 1:12:07.800 --> 1:12:08.679 That's for the fixes. 1:12:08.760 --> 1:12:11.200 Right, Like Google, I think we can all agree, is 1:12:11.320 --> 1:12:14.240 not doing great as far as like search goes. Right, 1:12:14.280 --> 1:12:16.439 Like you go and you search something on Google, it 1:12:16.520 --> 1:12:17.599 is so much worse. 1:12:17.640 --> 1:12:19.760 Now I'm using Coggy, the paid one. 1:12:20.160 --> 1:12:26.200 At the moment, it's. 1:12:23.760 --> 1:12:24.760 Like it's interesting. 1:12:25.080 --> 1:12:29.800 I'm still trying it out, but it doesn't feel measurably worse. 1:12:29.920 --> 1:12:31.280 Which is not great for Google. 1:12:32.240 --> 1:12:35.160 H And then that is something that could be solved 1:12:35.160 --> 1:12:37.360 and that would be a huge boot, right, Like, like, 1:12:37.439 --> 1:12:40.240 it is hard to find things, and these companies have 1:12:40.240 --> 1:12:42.000 all decided that they were going to solve it by 1:12:42.120 --> 1:12:46.519 just taking all of the content and then maybe or 1:12:46.560 --> 1:12:48.160 maybe not accurately con. 1:12:48.600 --> 1:12:52.240 Google I was like, and then you will be able 1:12:52.280 --> 1:12:56.040 to use such to find your UPS tracking number and 1:12:56.040 --> 1:12:57.439 it will tell it when you're going to tell you, 1:12:57.479 --> 1:12:58.840 and then when you're trying to do a return, it 1:12:58.880 --> 1:13:03.799 will actually generate that could happen. Yeah, you know when. 1:13:04.360 --> 1:13:06.320 Then it just moved away, Yeah, don't worry. 1:13:06.400 --> 1:13:06.880 That was actual. 1:13:07.760 --> 1:13:11.320 Yeah, there's a lot. There are these useful things. 1:13:11.840 --> 1:13:14.479 They're nowhere close to ready, and then they go and 1:13:14.520 --> 1:13:17.240 they promise them way too early, and then like AI 1:13:17.400 --> 1:13:20.040 is getting poisoned. There's so much really interesting things that 1:13:20.040 --> 1:13:22.080 can happen space for a while, and there has. 1:13:21.960 --> 1:13:23.360 Been for a very long time. 1:13:23.720 --> 1:13:25.960 And instead they're like, what if we just make a 1:13:25.960 --> 1:13:28.720 bunch of money by pushing lying bots out into the 1:13:28.720 --> 1:13:32.040 world and that won't backfire in any way, shape or form. 1:13:32.080 --> 1:13:34.120 And it's like, no, it's already backfiring, and it's just 1:13:34.120 --> 1:13:36.519 gonna get worse. Like Google, you shot yourself in the foot, 1:13:37.000 --> 1:13:40.120 Microsoft with being you shot yourself in the foot because 1:13:40.120 --> 1:13:42.840 you're like, what if we release these lying machines at 1:13:42.880 --> 1:13:44.760 the same time we have our garbage search engines that 1:13:44.840 --> 1:13:49.280 can't see the lies and it'll be fine. No, you've 1:13:49.320 --> 1:13:52.040 just made the web like almost impossible to navigate. 1:13:52.160 --> 1:13:54.320 And that one is very much like it was a 1:13:54.320 --> 1:13:56.360 way to sell cloud computer space. It was a way 1:13:56.400 --> 1:13:59.240 to promise, Yeah, the eternal growth machine could keep growing. 1:14:00.160 --> 1:14:03.080 But also like Search, I've done the episode. It' that's 1:14:03.080 --> 1:14:06.639 a whole thing. It just feels like they're not building 1:14:06.680 --> 1:14:09.839 things for people like it. Really like if I worked 1:14:09.880 --> 1:14:13.000 on Google Search and I saw them launch that, I 1:14:13.040 --> 1:14:14.920 probably wouldn't quit if I had a mortgage, but I 1:14:16.120 --> 1:14:19.080 would take my LinkedIn offline. Yeah, I wouldn't want to 1:14:19.120 --> 1:14:20.200 be associated with it. 1:14:20.080 --> 1:14:24.400 It you like, yeah, de face the line, vacations. 1:14:23.760 --> 1:14:29.800 Yeah, I would, yeah, vacation. But it's just someone like 1:14:29.880 --> 1:14:32.200 in a in a sane society, suned up as Shy 1:14:32.240 --> 1:14:37.080 would have been fired, yeah, immediately, immediate. Liz sent off, 1:14:37.120 --> 1:14:39.400 brabagar Ragavan would have been sent off. These people would 1:14:39.400 --> 1:14:42.559 have been fired not just for but they've already not 1:14:42.600 --> 1:14:46.240 been fired for making search bad, but for publicly breaking 1:14:46.360 --> 1:14:49.680 the probably the biggest contribution tech has made ever, like 1:14:49.720 --> 1:14:51.200 at least in software. 1:14:51.479 --> 1:14:53.479 And instead it's like a little hiccup and they're like, 1:14:53.479 --> 1:14:56.080 don't worry. AI is going to fix this out. 1:14:57.280 --> 1:14:58.959 Just AI is going to fix the AI. 1:14:58.840 --> 1:15:01.240 Pro Well, you know that's the other part of it. 1:15:01.280 --> 1:15:03.439 They're like, well, AI will fix it because AI just 1:15:03.479 --> 1:15:05.280 needs to learn more stuff and if it learns more 1:15:05.280 --> 1:15:07.479 stuff will do that. Okay, but didn't you just there 1:15:07.560 --> 1:15:09.280 was just I think The Atlantic wrote a really great 1:15:09.280 --> 1:15:12.840 story about how they run out of stuff to see 1:15:12.880 --> 1:15:15.400 AI on and so they're like, what if we just 1:15:15.439 --> 1:15:19.200 make more machines that make a content from AI synthetic 1:15:19.240 --> 1:15:19.920 content data. 1:15:20.120 --> 1:15:22.120 So if you go back to the PKI episode, this 1:15:22.240 --> 1:15:24.439 is a big problem the synthetic data. And by the way, 1:15:24.720 --> 1:15:26.200 did you know that that will break them? 1:15:26.439 --> 1:15:28.160 Yeah, it's gonna be great. 1:15:28.560 --> 1:15:31.720 Habsburg GAI as well. Jathan Sadowski calls it one of 1:15:31.760 --> 1:15:34.360 the funniest terms ever. But it's so funny as well 1:15:34.360 --> 1:15:37.920 because there are so many times, there's so many things 1:15:37.960 --> 1:15:40.680 to fix, and just using the phone is kind of 1:15:40.680 --> 1:15:45.200 a ball like it. It's like you have this clickie 1:15:45.280 --> 1:15:48.840 keyboard company. Yeah, I'm surprised that that didn't come out 1:15:48.960 --> 1:15:51.800 like one of the weird like not quite works for Apple, 1:15:51.840 --> 1:15:53.639 but seems to get all their revenue through the Apple Store. 1:15:53.680 --> 1:15:55.760 Companies like these, these ones that have just kind of 1:15:55.760 --> 1:15:57.680 bubbled up and hung around in a good way, like 1:15:57.720 --> 1:15:59.839 it's just solving a very specific need. 1:15:59.720 --> 1:16:04.040 Right right, for a very but then like specific, there 1:16:04.040 --> 1:16:04.519 are plenty. 1:16:04.360 --> 1:16:06.599 People who don't like clickie who want a clickie keyboard, 1:16:06.600 --> 1:16:08.400 people who like keyboards, like that's a thing that you 1:16:08.400 --> 1:16:11.280 can connect to a person who does not about. 1:16:11.720 --> 1:16:14.680 Kim Kardashian bowl one, right, that is famously a thing 1:16:14.800 --> 1:16:16.240 she loves. 1:16:16.240 --> 1:16:17.800 One of the first things I learned about being on 1:16:17.840 --> 1:16:19.200 the side of the business. And I'm not allowed to 1:16:19.240 --> 1:16:25.080 talk about the customers, not giving me the permission, but yeah, no, I. 1:16:25.040 --> 1:16:31.439 Hear Henry clutching his clicks as he his last words, 1:16:31.479 --> 1:16:38.240 well I like the device, No, I it's it sucks 1:16:38.240 --> 1:16:39.920 as well, And getting back to something of saying earlier 1:16:39.920 --> 1:16:43.080 as well, I want to be excited about this stuff 1:16:43.200 --> 1:16:45.599 I loves. 1:16:45.640 --> 1:16:47.000 Is there anything you're excited about? 1:16:47.040 --> 1:16:47.160 Right? 1:16:47.240 --> 1:16:48.400 Yeah, that's a good like. 1:16:48.479 --> 1:16:51.519 The steam Deck. The next I genuinely believe, and I 1:16:51.520 --> 1:16:54.559 know the old was the second one. No, that's not 1:16:54.600 --> 1:16:57.760 what I'm talking about. Whenever they do the next steam Deck, 1:16:58.160 --> 1:16:59.760 I'm so excited for that. 1:16:59.840 --> 1:17:00.679 It's going to be cool. 1:17:00.800 --> 1:17:02.800 I love the steam Deck. I think it's one of 1:17:02.880 --> 1:17:06.080 the coolest things I've ever used. It is like a 1:17:06.200 --> 1:17:10.080 really great PC gaming console. PC gaming consoles, they've tried 1:17:10.080 --> 1:17:12.559 them a few times, never quite work, but this works. 1:17:12.760 --> 1:17:13.960 It's a bit too big. 1:17:15.280 --> 1:17:18.200 Play isn't great, but yeah, don't worry about it. 1:17:18.200 --> 1:17:21.960 It's cool and it's it's customizable in a way that 1:17:22.000 --> 1:17:24.800 you don't generally get with products nowadays, and it's just 1:17:25.160 --> 1:17:28.200 it's fun to use. Like that's that's what I got. Like, 1:17:28.400 --> 1:17:30.120 I got into the I n EO. I got into 1:17:30.160 --> 1:17:33.320 these weird like Steam Deck replacements because there's a place 1:17:33.360 --> 1:17:34.719 where I'm like, oh, something's happening. 1:17:34.840 --> 1:17:35.040 Yeah. 1:17:35.120 --> 1:17:37.280 Game is kind of immune from this, from this thing, 1:17:37.320 --> 1:17:39.719 because like you can go back to a Nintendo sweach. 1:17:39.720 --> 1:17:43.240 I mean, I still love my switch and Razor kicks 1:17:43.240 --> 1:17:45.400 out a new gaming accessory every ces. You got this 1:17:45.439 --> 1:17:48.160 crazy ridiculous webcam that like most people don't need, but 1:17:48.200 --> 1:17:49.599 streamers love and yeah. 1:17:49.680 --> 1:17:52.120 Rgbnable lights and stuff like. There are a lot of 1:17:52.160 --> 1:17:53.800 gadgets to be had in the gaming world. I feel 1:17:53.840 --> 1:17:54.760 like if I were. 1:17:55.200 --> 1:18:00.120 Beginning with a I'm completely blanking. They do the lights well. 1:18:00.160 --> 1:18:07.639 Gatto they make really good Danield producer there, it's Gato. 1:18:07.800 --> 1:18:08.759 They make great ship. 1:18:08.600 --> 1:18:10.600 As well, and production gear and camera and NERD's like, 1:18:10.640 --> 1:18:13.880 there are still gadgets out there for specific niches. 1:18:13.560 --> 1:18:14.680 But it's definitely niche. 1:18:14.800 --> 1:18:18.040 Yeah, they're also little professions, but they're like it's specialized gear. 1:18:18.120 --> 1:18:19.240 It's not really a gadget. 1:18:19.280 --> 1:18:21.519 There is just yeah, it's the best plan I got. 1:18:21.520 --> 1:18:22.080 This weird thing. 1:18:22.720 --> 1:18:26.280 There is something exciting happening where the normalization of photography 1:18:26.320 --> 1:18:28.920 written large is pretty magnificent. The photos I can take 1:18:28.960 --> 1:18:32.320 on my iPhone with portrait mode are not my DSLRT. 1:18:32.320 --> 1:18:34.840 I've got an Alpha three, I got a Canon five DS. 1:18:34.880 --> 1:18:37.240 I've done a lot photography, got some nice glass too, 1:18:37.800 --> 1:18:39.080 And yeah, when I take them out and I get 1:18:39.080 --> 1:18:41.760 the right lightning lighting and I've I've made sure I 1:18:41.880 --> 1:18:42.880 do the settings. 1:18:42.520 --> 1:18:44.800 Right, you feel like you've earned. 1:18:44.360 --> 1:18:47.000 And I nailed it, and I nailed it. Sure, it's 1:18:47.000 --> 1:18:50.320 great nine eight percent. The other time, though, my phone's 1:18:50.320 --> 1:18:51.760 in my pocket and I can get a really good 1:18:51.800 --> 1:18:54.240 photo and it's easy. I can upload it somewhere. It's 1:18:54.240 --> 1:18:55.479 easy to share with a friend. I could do a 1:18:55.479 --> 1:18:57.880 little editing. I can make a podcast at home in 1:18:57.920 --> 1:18:59.960 my pajamas in Las Vegas. I can have it edit. 1:19:00.040 --> 1:19:03.240 Did there are actual things that happen that are so 1:19:03.560 --> 1:19:08.080 good in tech And they see these things and they're like, shit, 1:19:08.439 --> 1:19:12.200 all right, what problems the humans happen? Like I don't know, 1:19:12.600 --> 1:19:14.599 And they go to their assistant and like, what problems 1:19:14.640 --> 1:19:16.400 do you have? And they start talking like yeah, sure, 1:19:16.800 --> 1:19:20.080 And it's just it's frustrating because if the tech industry 1:19:20.120 --> 1:19:22.200 would realize this was happening, they actually have a lot 1:19:22.240 --> 1:19:25.880 of good stuff to do, the normalization of whatever professional 1:19:25.920 --> 1:19:28.240 things are. You can record a podcast that sounds really 1:19:28.280 --> 1:19:29.960 good from home now in a way that you couldn't 1:19:30.000 --> 1:19:30.559 four years ago. 1:19:30.880 --> 1:19:34.320 Absolutely. Yeah. Also, I think like some of this is 1:19:34.400 --> 1:19:36.720 just it is. I don't know if you want to 1:19:36.760 --> 1:19:39.880 call it, like I've victimless. Crime is not the word. 1:19:39.880 --> 1:19:42.840 It's like, this was, this was, this was inevitable right 1:19:43.120 --> 1:19:45.519 when stuff got this good, and when when you got 1:19:45.560 --> 1:19:47.400 able to do those things that you just talked about 1:19:47.400 --> 1:19:49.080 on your phone, right, you have a production studio in 1:19:49.120 --> 1:19:53.400 your pocket, Like we had to get here. There was 1:19:53.439 --> 1:19:56.320 there's no longer any reason for Motorola to make a 1:19:56.360 --> 1:19:58.320 phone that with double action hinges. 1:19:58.680 --> 1:20:00.160 Yeah, we figured it out. 1:20:00.400 --> 1:20:02.400 And the same thing happened in Hollywood, right, Like they 1:20:02.400 --> 1:20:04.799 were like, oh, superhero movies make money. 1:20:05.040 --> 1:20:06.960 What if we only Didero? 1:20:07.840 --> 1:20:09.920 And that was really cool for me, a superhero nerd 1:20:10.000 --> 1:20:11.559 for two days, and then I was. 1:20:11.520 --> 1:20:17.400 Like, that's a really good example because they saw that 1:20:17.520 --> 1:20:21.240 superheroes did well. What they didn't realize was the movies 1:20:21.280 --> 1:20:23.439 were good and the actors were good in the roles. 1:20:23.680 --> 1:20:26.280 Iron Man didn't do well because people love the concept 1:20:26.280 --> 1:20:28.280 of Tony Stark. It's because Robert Downey Junior. 1:20:28.320 --> 1:20:29.960 Nobody I fucking knew who Tony Stark was. 1:20:30.160 --> 1:20:34.160 Whatever it came out, I don't know. Guardians the Galaxy 1:20:34.240 --> 1:20:36.519 was good, not because of Guardians of the Galaxy but 1:20:36.560 --> 1:20:39.000 because the actors are very good at So that's excellent. 1:20:39.000 --> 1:20:42.000 Scimora like, yeah, I forget who plays Pete Quill, but 1:20:42.080 --> 1:20:44.479 the guy from the Office, there's gonna be someone who's 1:20:44.520 --> 1:20:44.920 so pissed. 1:20:46.120 --> 1:20:48.160 That wasn't incredible. The guy from the Office. 1:20:48.040 --> 1:20:49.920 I'm like a huge Guardians the Galaxy foud have a 1:20:49.920 --> 1:20:52.519 bunch of comic artwork from it. But they saw that, 1:20:52.760 --> 1:20:55.519 and that's why, yes, there you go. I have the 1:20:55.560 --> 1:20:59.800 guy from that show with person Trace Williams. Yeah, treat Williams. Sorry. 1:21:01.479 --> 1:21:05.479 So the thing is they see that, and then they 1:21:05.520 --> 1:21:07.840 spill out all these ship ones. They're like, what what 1:21:08.080 --> 1:21:10.360 don't you like about it? They're all three hours long, 1:21:11.240 --> 1:21:13.960 that's more superhero You fucking ingrades. 1:21:14.080 --> 1:21:16.960 And just take your slop. You don't want your slot. 1:21:16.800 --> 1:21:18.599 Take your slop. And I guess that maybe we are 1:21:18.680 --> 1:21:19.680 in tech slop era. 1:21:20.000 --> 1:21:21.200 We are in tech slop era. 1:21:21.439 --> 1:21:23.400 Oh no, we're actually in tech slop era. That's the 1:21:23.439 --> 1:21:24.800 title of this episode. 1:21:30.720 --> 1:21:33.160 But it is, we're in this moment where it's like 1:21:33.680 --> 1:21:35.760 we are. They are more focused on their bottom line. 1:21:35.760 --> 1:21:38.960 They're more focused on pleasing people who don't care about 1:21:38.960 --> 1:21:41.800 the technology than actually making good technology. And there's there's 1:21:41.840 --> 1:21:43.920 a lot of good examples where that's not the case. 1:21:43.960 --> 1:21:46.120 We've talked about a lot of those here, but a 1:21:46.240 --> 1:21:48.800 lot of it is just garbage. And so for me, 1:21:49.200 --> 1:21:51.000 that's why I go and I mess with these steam 1:21:51.080 --> 1:21:54.040 Deck competitors and eat ink devices, because that's the areas 1:21:54.120 --> 1:21:56.720 where it feels like, yeah, there is the slop, like 1:21:57.160 --> 1:21:59.599 right now, and tell Panos do something about the Kindle 1:22:00.400 --> 1:22:01.240 garbage device. 1:22:01.600 --> 1:22:04.040 I do not want one in my house. Sorry to 1:22:04.120 --> 1:22:08.360 everyone at Amazon. Fix it. But these other Onyx books is. 1:22:08.360 --> 1:22:10.720 Making like really really cool interesting stuff here. It's not 1:22:10.800 --> 1:22:14.560 great yet, but they're trying. And every time, like I 1:22:14.640 --> 1:22:17.120 write a review, then the next thing comes out and 1:22:17.160 --> 1:22:19.960 it changes little and I'm like Okay, then I feel 1:22:20.040 --> 1:22:22.200 very powerful, and then I just want to like write 1:22:22.200 --> 1:22:24.080 a hole like here's what I want actually from it, 1:22:24.200 --> 1:22:26.560 and then I'm worried that I'm got too close, I 1:22:26.600 --> 1:22:27.280 got too into it. 1:22:28.080 --> 1:22:30.040 It's funny though, that you were afraid to write that, 1:22:30.560 --> 1:22:33.479 right just be like fix it, yeah, because like you're 1:22:33.520 --> 1:22:36.240 afraid the company would be mad when the company should like. 1:22:36.720 --> 1:22:38.120 Yeah no, then I'm no. 1:22:38.200 --> 1:22:40.519 I'm more afraid that, like I'm doing labor and not 1:22:40.600 --> 1:22:42.320 getting paid for it. I mean, I'm getting paid for it, 1:22:42.400 --> 1:22:43.200 but like righte. 1:22:43.080 --> 1:22:46.400 The unpaid consulting check is not yeah it. 1:22:46.400 --> 1:22:47.640 Where's my consulting check now? 1:22:47.800 --> 1:22:49.559 But I wonder about the Actually That's what I've been 1:22:49.600 --> 1:22:51.599 thinking about kind of weirdly for the past few minutes. 1:22:51.640 --> 1:22:54.280 It's just like, there is still obviously really good reporting 1:22:54.280 --> 1:22:56.800 out there, there are still really good gadget reviews out there, 1:22:56.880 --> 1:23:00.360 there's still people calling companies to account for all the 1:23:00.400 --> 1:23:02.600 stuff we've been talking about for two hours. But I 1:23:03.280 --> 1:23:08.479 do wonder how much disruption is actually being introduced by 1:23:09.600 --> 1:23:12.960 this kind of like rise of influencer marketing that kind 1:23:12.960 --> 1:23:14.439 of like just clouds of the whole thing, and nobody 1:23:14.479 --> 1:23:15.240 can tell the difference. 1:23:15.400 --> 1:23:15.800 I found. 1:23:15.880 --> 1:23:18.360 I started to find fifteen years or twelve years ago 1:23:18.680 --> 1:23:23.280 that people could not tell the difference between sponsored content. 1:23:23.160 --> 1:23:27.480 And even when you lead in quite aggressively. 1:23:27.240 --> 1:23:30.439 Yeah, because well, oh, I'm like I tweet and someone 1:23:30.560 --> 1:23:33.040 replies asking a question that I've answered. 1:23:32.800 --> 1:23:33.920 In the original tweet. 1:23:34.080 --> 1:23:36.200 You know, because nobody pays attention. It's it's it's it's 1:23:36.280 --> 1:23:38.680 it's an attention span problem that I don't I don't know. 1:23:39.720 --> 1:23:41.839 We could spend another two hours talking about the changes 1:23:42.600 --> 1:23:44.400 that would need to happen in the media world to 1:23:44.520 --> 1:23:48.400 actually kind of make it close to good, but I 1:23:48.479 --> 1:23:50.200 don't know that it would make a difference. Yeah, it's 1:23:50.280 --> 1:23:53.760 based on people's willingness to actually listen or ability to listen. 1:23:53.880 --> 1:23:56.080 Yeah, it's wild how many times we'll put a review 1:23:56.160 --> 1:23:58.719 up and you know, the Vergeon, we do not accept units. 1:23:58.720 --> 1:24:01.720 We send them back after we review them. We've got 1:24:01.960 --> 1:24:04.439 very strict policy. Used to we wouldn't even eat food. 1:24:05.360 --> 1:24:08.680 One of the strictest, and I love it. 1:24:09.160 --> 1:24:12.600 And nowadays, like we get people being like, oh, you 1:24:12.840 --> 1:24:17.599 just spawn con for Apple and I'm like, rude. I'm 1:24:17.600 --> 1:24:20.160 mainly just offended more than annoyed, because I'm just like, 1:24:20.520 --> 1:24:23.240 but it's it's the same thing. There's this assumption that 1:24:23.400 --> 1:24:25.639 everyone has paid to play. And you see that even 1:24:25.680 --> 1:24:27.360 with PR. You get a lot of these younger PR 1:24:27.400 --> 1:24:29.200 people being like, hey, how much can we pay you 1:24:29.320 --> 1:24:30.719 to get our product on your site. 1:24:30.760 --> 1:24:32.599 I'm like, well, nothing, absolutely yeah. 1:24:36.040 --> 1:24:38.479 And it's it's shockingly common. 1:24:39.120 --> 1:24:41.280 Mark has running, you know, a really great review on 1:24:41.320 --> 1:24:43.439 i'm k b HD and then we have two weeks 1:24:43.479 --> 1:24:46.439 of discourse because somebody on Twitter with a large audience said, 1:24:46.479 --> 1:24:49.760 you know, I just don't think it's right that can 1:24:49.880 --> 1:24:52.040 kill a can kill a company, you know with this 1:24:52.479 --> 1:24:55.080 with this thoughtless headline. I'm like, no, that's a review 1:24:55.160 --> 1:24:59.400 of a product that didn't That's how this works. 1:24:59.600 --> 1:25:03.599 Yeah, I think that there is a problem. Yeah, within 1:25:04.160 --> 1:25:06.240 the media that there is a fear that if you 1:25:06.320 --> 1:25:09.080 step outside of the lines in gaming for good reason. 1:25:09.200 --> 1:25:12.400 I was in there before all of that horror show happened, 1:25:12.439 --> 1:25:14.679 and now it's those people you will actually get fucked, 1:25:14.720 --> 1:25:18.000 especially so much worse for a woman. But in gadgets 1:25:18.880 --> 1:25:21.840 there's a fear of losing access. But I also think 1:25:21.920 --> 1:25:24.599 no one wants to say anything that's particularly different because 1:25:25.240 --> 1:25:27.280 I don't know what if they're wrong, And the answer 1:25:27.439 --> 1:25:31.400 is you've been wrong plenty of fucking times. Why stop now? Like, 1:25:32.479 --> 1:25:35.280 no one wants to make the step and say this sucks. 1:25:35.360 --> 1:25:37.760 I mentioned Dave three D earlier, great YouTube Dave two 1:25:37.840 --> 1:25:39.000 D pardon. 1:25:40.320 --> 1:25:42.400 Three D is yeah, ten years from. 1:25:42.320 --> 1:25:45.720 Now there are And he did this thing about the gap, 1:25:45.920 --> 1:25:48.519 about the rabbit and about the pin, and he was 1:25:48.600 --> 1:25:51.439 just saying, what are these companies doing? Like what is this? 1:25:52.080 --> 1:25:55.120 I looked around, Really, no one said that. There was 1:25:55.160 --> 1:25:57.240 a thing in Bloomberg being like, so, why is it 1:25:57.360 --> 1:25:58.800 so good that you're doing this? It was like a 1:25:58.920 --> 1:26:02.400 month before it came out. It's just completely insane. And 1:26:02.479 --> 1:26:07.360 I understand that when you see the world, everyone's saying AI, 1:26:07.640 --> 1:26:10.040 everyone's saying this is gonna be big everyone's saying the 1:26:10.080 --> 1:26:14.840 same thing. It's scary to step out. But also my 1:26:14.960 --> 1:26:17.400 Keith Olbman, have you no shame? But it really is like, 1:26:18.800 --> 1:26:20.880 do you not want to just say what you see? 1:26:21.200 --> 1:26:23.960 If you believe this, I actually am fine with it. 1:26:24.320 --> 1:26:27.040 Please explain yourself because in the case of the rabbit, 1:26:27.120 --> 1:26:29.000 the case of the humane, I know the argument is, 1:26:29.040 --> 1:26:31.000 are it's just for affluent people. Whatever, It's still a 1:26:31.040 --> 1:26:34.200 lot of money. It's still who knows whether someone didn't 1:26:34.280 --> 1:26:36.519 actually save for the rabbit or save. 1:26:36.800 --> 1:26:37.400 A lot of people. 1:26:38.240 --> 1:26:40.639 Two hundred bucks isn't screw you if you think two 1:26:40.760 --> 1:26:43.520 hundred bucks isn't a lot. If that is your response 1:26:43.600 --> 1:26:47.600 to something as a justification for it being shit, that's unconscionable. 1:26:47.680 --> 1:26:50.320 I always said that wasn't an excuse, especially since it 1:26:50.400 --> 1:26:52.559 was being like compared directly to the to their humane 1:26:52.600 --> 1:26:54.400 and I'm like, well, yeah, it's a cost less but. 1:26:54.360 --> 1:26:54.920 It still doesn't do it. 1:26:55.640 --> 1:26:59.000 Yeah, yeah, in fact, it did even much less. Yeah, 1:27:00.120 --> 1:27:01.960 it's you can put an Android phone on it. 1:27:02.040 --> 1:27:02.160 Now. 1:27:02.439 --> 1:27:05.040 I wanted to do that for my video. It didn't 1:27:05.040 --> 1:27:05.639 come out in time. 1:27:05.960 --> 1:27:07.880 It's just frustrating that guy who was like, oh, he 1:27:08.040 --> 1:27:10.960 killed the product no, they killed the products out. Mancus 1:27:11.080 --> 1:27:13.320 just said what was in front of him, right. Yeah. 1:27:13.439 --> 1:27:16.559 I had a friend, Sharie Smith, who would review laptops 1:27:16.600 --> 1:27:18.560 and sometimes she'd give him a bad score, and the 1:27:18.600 --> 1:27:20.240 companies would call and be like, well, why why did 1:27:20.280 --> 1:27:20.680 you give us. 1:27:20.640 --> 1:27:23.320 A bad store? And you made a bad product. Make 1:27:23.400 --> 1:27:25.160 a good product and I'll give you a good score. 1:27:25.320 --> 1:27:26.559 It's that easy. 1:27:27.400 --> 1:27:29.840 Just talking about this off air, it's just like, no, look, 1:27:29.920 --> 1:27:32.920 I will tell you why, and I'll take you through 1:27:32.960 --> 1:27:35.040 the process and oh, I've just narrated my whole video 1:27:35.080 --> 1:27:35.519 for you again. 1:27:35.640 --> 1:27:38.479 Just going and if I like it, I'm gonna lose 1:27:38.560 --> 1:27:41.040 my shit over this. I'll be emphatic about how much 1:27:41.080 --> 1:27:43.120 I like it. When I like something, I love it. 1:27:43.520 --> 1:27:45.800 I get into the guts values, How was I really 1:27:45.960 --> 1:27:48.760 enjoy it? And I want to do that again with tech, 1:27:48.880 --> 1:27:50.240 like I actually really miss it and. 1:27:50.280 --> 1:27:52.000 I think people What people don't get is that that's 1:27:52.040 --> 1:27:55.320 actually that makes it easier. Like when I run a review, 1:27:55.400 --> 1:27:57.920 that's that's good. Yeah, it's great because I get to 1:27:57.960 --> 1:28:00.320 geek out the product. The product people are happy, which 1:28:00.439 --> 1:28:01.840 like I doesn't what I do. 1:28:01.960 --> 1:28:04.120 But they're not yelling at me. And the commenters aren't 1:28:04.120 --> 1:28:05.920 aren't yelling at me either. You get the occasion like 1:28:05.960 --> 1:28:10.360 how much they padio for this bab and like everyone 1:28:10.400 --> 1:28:12.320 else is just like, oh yeah, I was geeking out 1:28:12.320 --> 1:28:14.519 about this too. I'm glad it's not a dumpster fire. 1:28:14.760 --> 1:28:14.960 Yeah. 1:28:15.120 --> 1:28:17.920 Great, cool, it's it's much more of a hassle to 1:28:18.160 --> 1:28:18.840 do a bad review. 1:28:19.040 --> 1:28:19.840 Yeah, a bad review. 1:28:20.360 --> 1:28:22.880 I mean the Vergie this year we did three that 1:28:23.040 --> 1:28:26.479 were like lower than average, and people were like, what 1:28:26.840 --> 1:28:28.360 because we give the rabbit a really low score. I 1:28:28.360 --> 1:28:30.680 believe we give it like a three or four. No, 1:28:30.720 --> 1:28:32.240 we give it a three because the Humane Pin got 1:28:32.280 --> 1:28:35.600 a four because it did slightly more. And then the 1:28:35.680 --> 1:28:38.080 vision Pro got a seven, and we all joke now 1:28:38.120 --> 1:28:39.680 and say it probably should have been a six. But 1:28:40.040 --> 1:28:42.320 but even then it was pretty like like the vision 1:28:42.320 --> 1:28:44.360 Pro actually still did the thing right, it. 1:28:44.439 --> 1:28:48.680 Was, Yeah, but seven should be out lowed. I'm just 1:28:48.840 --> 1:28:50.320 gonna say seven should be retired. 1:28:50.479 --> 1:28:55.880 Yeah, but you know, it's very uncommon in our space, 1:28:55.960 --> 1:28:57.200 and a lot of times if you are using the 1:28:57.200 --> 1:28:59.040 garbage products, you don't want to talk about them, and 1:28:59.320 --> 1:29:01.160 then you're using the mediocre products and you're like, how 1:29:01.200 --> 1:29:02.280 do I make that sound interesting? 1:29:02.280 --> 1:29:04.200 Oh my god, yes, now we're just talking. 1:29:05.200 --> 1:29:07.160 We're just over here talking about no no, no, we 1:29:07.280 --> 1:29:07.840 have a great time. 1:29:07.880 --> 1:29:10.760 Sorry, no, no, no, no, I'm hat that's why you're here. 1:29:11.560 --> 1:29:15.680 And so it's funny. I've been asked recently to do 1:29:15.800 --> 1:29:18.280 more review stuff. But that's the thing. It's like, what 1:29:18.400 --> 1:29:21.120 if I hate it, man, just say you hate it, 1:29:21.280 --> 1:29:24.760 It'll be the most and I can do no. But 1:29:24.880 --> 1:29:28.360 I can absolutely rip something a pop. Also, do I 1:29:28.520 --> 1:29:32.040 want to like if it's like something I truly despise, fine, 1:29:32.120 --> 1:29:36.639 absolutely the injustice inside me. But it's like something that's 1:29:36.720 --> 1:29:39.320 just kind of shit, like a six out of ten 1:29:39.400 --> 1:29:40.679 review that sounds horrid. 1:29:41.000 --> 1:29:41.960 I mean, I definitely. 1:29:42.479 --> 1:29:45.200 When I first I went from from one place that 1:29:45.240 --> 1:29:48.519 had a very kind of strict tone, and then I 1:29:48.560 --> 1:29:50.519 went to a place with a much looser tone, which 1:29:50.640 --> 1:29:54.280 was Gizmodo at that point owned by Gawker. And I 1:29:54.360 --> 1:29:56.320 started there and I was ready to go, and I 1:29:56.400 --> 1:29:59.479 got a product in and I think, I mean, I 1:29:59.600 --> 1:30:01.880 gave it really bad review, and it was mainly because 1:30:01.880 --> 1:30:03.160 I was just I was like, it was not very 1:30:03.200 --> 1:30:06.000 good and I was like, I'm gonna dig in. And 1:30:06.120 --> 1:30:08.360 it was the meanest thing I've ever written in my life. 1:30:08.720 --> 1:30:10.280 I even think about it now and I cringe a 1:30:10.280 --> 1:30:11.600 little bit because it was so mean, but it was 1:30:11.640 --> 1:30:14.200 also so fun to write. And you you get older 1:30:14.200 --> 1:30:16.120 and you learn and you temper things, and so you're like, well, 1:30:16.160 --> 1:30:17.760 maybe I don't need to compare it to like a 1:30:17.840 --> 1:30:21.360 baby dropped on its head and a target, Like, maybe 1:30:21.479 --> 1:30:22.400 that is not appropriate. 1:30:22.680 --> 1:30:25.639 So we're approaching the end now. Yeah, So for both 1:30:25.680 --> 1:30:28.760 of you, what is actually something you really really really 1:30:28.840 --> 1:30:30.880 love in tech? There you go everyone on Reddit you 1:30:30.880 --> 1:30:34.320 want something positive? Jeez, you got first. You mean it, 1:30:34.439 --> 1:30:36.720 like like like a gadget you just really really love. 1:30:36.840 --> 1:30:39.160 I have a question, like a currently available one or one. 1:30:39.080 --> 1:30:42.760 One that us the history of yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:30:43.120 --> 1:30:43.880 even from history. 1:30:43.920 --> 1:30:46.800 I don't mind, I will get I'll blend the two. 1:30:46.960 --> 1:30:48.640 I'll give you where where I think a company really 1:30:48.680 --> 1:30:51.560 got something right and it didn't do very well. Motorola, 1:30:51.720 --> 1:30:54.640 as you know, revived the Razor for twenty nineteen. It 1:30:54.680 --> 1:30:56.560 brought back the Razor as a foldable Android phone and 1:30:56.600 --> 1:30:58.800 it was it was pretty cool, but I had some 1:30:58.920 --> 1:31:01.519 stuff wrong with it on the greatest. Then the next 1:31:01.600 --> 1:31:03.560 year they brought out the Razor of twenty twenty and 1:31:03.640 --> 1:31:08.040 I tell you for somebody who is terminally nostalgic, this 1:31:08.280 --> 1:31:11.679 thing maintained the industrial design of one of the most 1:31:11.760 --> 1:31:16.920 famous phones of all time and concealed within it a 1:31:17.080 --> 1:31:20.280 really quite good Android phone with a bad camera because 1:31:20.280 --> 1:31:22.720 it's made by Motorola, but you know it's and it 1:31:22.840 --> 1:31:24.080 was very fragile in whatever. 1:31:23.920 --> 1:31:24.759 But it was beautiful. 1:31:24.840 --> 1:31:27.400 I still I very few gadgets that I don't just 1:31:27.479 --> 1:31:29.599 throw in a drawer or return or whatever. This one 1:31:29.640 --> 1:31:31.240 I didn't have the heart. It sits there on my 1:31:31.360 --> 1:31:33.000 shelf in the back. It's out of focus in most 1:31:33.000 --> 1:31:35.120 of my videos. And it's a masterpiece. 1:31:35.320 --> 1:31:35.519 Yeah. 1:31:35.800 --> 1:31:38.880 And I love it when a company just absolutely nails it, 1:31:39.040 --> 1:31:40.800 and I hate it when it either doesn't have the 1:31:41.880 --> 1:31:44.759 ability to market it enough or it just doesn't capture 1:31:44.760 --> 1:31:45.559 the public's imagination. 1:31:45.600 --> 1:31:47.200 And I don't think it did very well, but I 1:31:47.360 --> 1:31:47.600 loved it. 1:31:48.200 --> 1:31:48.400 Cool. 1:31:48.520 --> 1:31:51.000 The Razor year is the coolest, one of the coolest 1:31:51.000 --> 1:31:51.599 things I've every year. 1:31:51.680 --> 1:31:54.840 That was a cool fucking phone. Yeah, I think me 1:31:55.200 --> 1:31:55.559 right now. 1:31:55.640 --> 1:31:59.080 It's arc the Browser. Oh wow, I recently switched to it. 1:31:59.240 --> 1:32:01.160 I won't shut up about it anywhere I go. So 1:32:01.280 --> 1:32:03.479 you guys have to listen to it too. You're talking 1:32:03.479 --> 1:32:06.200 about all your tabs earlier. I'm also a tab monster, 1:32:06.720 --> 1:32:10.679 and it just works it better, like collates the stuff 1:32:10.720 --> 1:32:13.840 for me, so like it does the job. I waited 1:32:13.920 --> 1:32:16.120 like two years to use it, and now it's got 1:32:16.160 --> 1:32:17.800 a bunch of AI features that I think are kind 1:32:17.800 --> 1:32:20.320 of stupid. But you ignore the AI features and you 1:32:20.400 --> 1:32:22.360 just focus on the core product and it rules. 1:32:23.080 --> 1:32:23.760 And it just came out. 1:32:23.800 --> 1:32:26.120 The iPad version came out the week we're recording this. 1:32:26.240 --> 1:32:28.000 I've heard that a lot. I've heard a lot of people. 1:32:28.560 --> 1:32:30.080 It's one of those things where you do have to 1:32:30.120 --> 1:32:32.840 take a minute. It's not something immediately like I get it. 1:32:33.439 --> 1:32:34.760 You have to kind of sit with it a second 1:32:34.760 --> 1:32:35.880 because the first time I looked at it was like 1:32:35.920 --> 1:32:37.520 this is stupid and immediately. 1:32:38.520 --> 1:32:40.439 All right, welcome people find you, Michael. 1:32:41.000 --> 1:32:43.200 If people can find me at Captain two phones, mostly 1:32:43.240 --> 1:32:45.599 on threads, it's Captain the Number two Phones. I'm also 1:32:46.160 --> 1:32:49.040 still on X you know, I have no choice and 1:32:49.240 --> 1:32:52.800 Instagram and I make YouTube videos at the Mister Mobile. 1:32:53.160 --> 1:32:56.519 And you can find me at alex h Pran's I 1:32:56.600 --> 1:32:59.680 think on threads and Twitter exists, but I don't check 1:32:59.720 --> 1:33:04.160 it very often. It's also Alex Hcrans and then I'm 1:33:04.280 --> 1:33:06.519 at the Verge. I write and edit at the Verge. 1:33:06.520 --> 1:33:10.880 I'm on the Verge cast every Friday and sometimes on Tuesdays. 1:33:11.600 --> 1:33:14.000 All Right, my name's Ed Zichron. You can find me 1:33:14.240 --> 1:33:17.920 at w W anyway. Sorry, you've been listening to Better Offline. 1:33:17.960 --> 1:33:21.280 We've been recording this in the beautiful iHeartRadio studios here 1:33:21.400 --> 1:33:24.120 in beautiful New York City, Daniel and my producer, Thank 1:33:24.160 --> 1:33:26.960 you so much, Daniel. I'm calling this thing Better off Live. 1:33:27.120 --> 1:33:29.720 Now We're going to do this in multiple cities. I'm 1:33:29.720 --> 1:33:31.799 proud and happy that we did this. Thank you, Michael, 1:33:31.920 --> 1:33:33.519 Thank you Alex. This has been one for and thank 1:33:33.560 --> 1:33:44.120 you all for listening. Thank you for listening to Better Offline. 1:33:44.400 --> 1:33:46.800 The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song 1:33:46.880 --> 1:33:49.519 is Mattawsowski. You can check out more of his music 1:33:49.560 --> 1:33:53.040 and audio projects at Mattasowski dot com m A T 1:33:53.200 --> 1:33:57.640 T O S O W s KI dot com. You 1:33:57.680 --> 1:33:59.920 can email me at easy at Better offline dot com, 1:34:00.320 --> 1:34:02.599 or visit Better Offline dot com to find more podcast 1:34:02.680 --> 1:34:06.000 links and of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend 1:34:06.000 --> 1:34:07.960 you go to chat dot where's youread dot At to 1:34:08.040 --> 1:34:10.839 visit the discord and go to our slash Better Offline 1:34:10.880 --> 1:34:14.080 to check out I'll Reddit. Thank you so much for listening. 1:34:14.920 --> 1:34:17.360 Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. 1:34:17.560 --> 1:34:20.400 For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool 1:34:20.439 --> 1:34:23.800 zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 1:34:23.840 --> 1:34:26.240 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.