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Speaker 1: Cauzone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello friends, it's me your host ed Zeitron, the host

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Speaker 2: of Better Offline. Now, of course it's Christmas weeks or

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Speaker 2: we're all taken a week off here at cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: So I'm rerunning one of my favorite episodes, where did

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Speaker 2: text Magic Go for You? During Alex Crowanz and Michael Fisher.

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Speaker 2: Now you're going to hear a lot more like this.

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Speaker 2: It's recorded in the awesome iHeartRadio studios in New York.

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Speaker 2: We're going to be doing way more of this next year.

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Speaker 2: But also the theme of this one is about where

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Speaker 2: text magic is gone, and I think this is a

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Speaker 2: formative theme of Better Offline but also going to be

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Speaker 2: a big thing in twenty twenty five for us.

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Speaker 3: So please enjoy.

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Speaker 2: This is a wonderful episode full of laughs and larks,

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Speaker 2: and honestly those two are way more funny than I am. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: please enjoy and have a happy Holidays.

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Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your host ed Zitron,

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Speaker 3: otherwise known today as Woke Joe Rogan. Good. We are

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Speaker 3: live kind of from the iHeartRadio studios in New York. Today.

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Speaker 3: I am joyed by mister Mobile himself, Michael Fisher and

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Speaker 3: of course Alex Krantz from the Verge.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for coming, thanks for having to be here,

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Speaker 4: thanks for having us. So today is about where the

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Speaker 4: magic's gone in tech. Got two great tech journalists with

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Speaker 4: me and I myself have done some writing on tech,

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Speaker 4: I guess.

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Speaker 3: And the Big Thing. And this kind of started actually

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Speaker 3: from a conversation between you and me, Michael, where it

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Speaker 3: was about kind of like what are we even looking

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Speaker 3: at in tech anymore? Why things aren't fun? Like what

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Speaker 3: like it feels like we've stopped getting The most fun

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Speaker 3: thing I have found is I'm actually gonna pull it

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Speaker 3: out of my pocket and there's no video, so you're

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Speaker 3: never gonna know. Like this anchor charge, it's like thirty bugs.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like battery packs are cool, but otherwise everything

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Speaker 3: that comes out that's meant to be exciting, like the

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Speaker 3: Humane pin and the Rabbit are one, which obviously we're

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Speaker 3: bad from the beginning. Sorry anyone who thought otherwise, We're wrong,

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Speaker 3: And like the Daylight tablet, which we'll get to of course,

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Speaker 3: right these things just have turned out to be just

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Speaker 3: not even fun. You can be kind of shitty, but fun,

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Speaker 3: like there's something you can look at even some of

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Speaker 3: the great tech failures, like that weird frame that you

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Speaker 3: could upload things to from like twenty fifty and look

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Speaker 3: a few of these weird Indiegogo things. There was a

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Speaker 3: cute weirdness to it, but now it's just almost just nothing.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of reasons for that.

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Speaker 5: There are.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I feel like there are like a lot of

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Speaker 6: compounding problems that have like that have deposited us here today.

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Speaker 6: But I will say that I think that there are

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Speaker 6: some of those examples you gave are still could have

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Speaker 6: been fun. I think Rabbit is still trying to like

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Speaker 6: salvage the situation and make it work, but I mean humane,

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Speaker 6: I think you know, it took a giant swing, which

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Speaker 6: was this this thing we've learned I think you shouldn't

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Speaker 6: do at this point, which is try to replace the smartphone,

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Speaker 6: call the smartphone the enemy, and say we're going to

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Speaker 6: replace it with this wearable thing.

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Speaker 5: And when you.

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Speaker 6: Deliver a product that's so undercooked, I think that's the problem.

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Speaker 6: Like when I mean undercook, I can't even get there.

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Speaker 7: And I think also just everybody's in this big quest

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Speaker 7: to beat the smartphone, right, like everybody wants to make

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Speaker 7: the next smartphone so they can make all the money

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Speaker 7: the way Apple did, and.

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Speaker 1: What is it? And so they're all like, throw it

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Speaker 1: at the wall? Is this it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: Even like you, I mean, I think you're right when

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Speaker 7: you say, like the rabbit and you look at these

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Speaker 7: AI devices and stuff where there feels like there's sort

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Speaker 7: of a cynicism. Yeah, to these products where you're like, oh,

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Speaker 7: you're just out here to make money. There's not like

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Speaker 7: something fun and exciting here. Like the Daylight Computer is

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Speaker 7: a good example. They're like, yeah, we're going to you know,

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Speaker 7: make computing black.

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Speaker 3: And white, just just for the listeners. You might not

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Speaker 3: know about it.

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Speaker 1: Can you describe the Daylight Yeah, the Daylight Computer.

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Speaker 5: You just reviewed it, right, Yeah, yeah, I just came

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Speaker 5: off the back of it. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: It's like I think I called it an ordinary Android

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Speaker 6: tablet with an extraordinary display because a special thing about

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Speaker 6: it is the display.

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Speaker 5: And David Pierce said, you know, yeah, like.

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Speaker 6: He thinks, uh, this this is this is a display

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Speaker 6: company necessarily a consumer product, but what is it though?

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Speaker 7: It's like an l CD display that only does black

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Speaker 7: and white.

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Speaker 6: Correct, And the special thing is that it has a

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Speaker 6: fast refresh rate that makes it very smooth, So when

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Speaker 6: you're manipulating it, it's like using a black It's like

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Speaker 6: using an iPad from the Fallout world, Yeah right, where

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Speaker 6: like it's is.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's kind of like using an e ink Android

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Speaker 7: tablet if the e ink could go fast.

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Speaker 3: Right, That's why I was excited about it. So what's

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Speaker 3: bad about it?

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Speaker 7: I mean the problem for me fundamentally, I've used a

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Speaker 7: lot of Android e Ink tablets. I'm a nerd about

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Speaker 7: these things, and fundamentally the problem is they're built for

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Speaker 7: black and white, which is cool. The Internet isn't. Oh,

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Speaker 7: so you're like, Okay, I'm going to download this app.

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Speaker 7: I can't see any of the buttons.

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Speaker 3: Cool, So they just did not prepare for people use

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Speaker 3: you can like I mean that's.

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Speaker 5: True of the of those e readers.

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Speaker 3: No, that is true.

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Speaker 6: But I think Daylight, like to their credit, they have

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Speaker 6: come out and said, look, we don't want color. You know,

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Speaker 6: it's this very granola very like if you watch the

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Speaker 6: coverage of the.

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Speaker 3: Yeah I've seen I've seen the Instagram ads.

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Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, and like that is their pitch, that is

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Speaker 6: their whole things, Like your screen is too colorful and

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Speaker 6: too addictive, and you should you should be able to

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Speaker 6: use your tablet outside in daylight, and it should function

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Speaker 6: as you expect. You should be able to do whatever

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Speaker 6: you want. But at the end of the day, ideally

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Speaker 6: you're not, as you know, drawn into this vortex of

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Speaker 6: of TikTok endlest feeds because you know you don't want

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Speaker 6: to watch YouTube on it.

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Speaker 5: You want to do someone.

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Speaker 6: They made reading deliberate, right, which which is a whole

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Speaker 6: industry now, isn't it right?

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Speaker 7: Like the light phone is another example where people are

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Speaker 7: just like, what if we took all the cool capabilities

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Speaker 7: of your phone and then like turned off a bunch

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Speaker 7: of it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've seen the ads for that, that weird phone

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Speaker 3: where it's like, oh, we block out all the things

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Speaker 3: you use your phone for, right, so the thing that

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't use your phone. It's just very confusing, And

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Speaker 3: I love posting, I love looking at my phone ninety

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Speaker 3: two hours a way.

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Speaker 1: You are an online.

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Speaker 3: I will die if I don't go online. But also,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't feel like any of these companies, same thing

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Speaker 3: with Rabbit, same thing with Daylight. It doesn't feel like

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Speaker 3: they've actually talked to a person, like an actual person,

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Speaker 3: like a normal person, someone who uses Facebook and Instagram

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Speaker 3: to talk to their friends or get a I spam

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Speaker 3: and someone who has like a regular job, someone who

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Speaker 3: isn't in tech at all, yeah, and just said what

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Speaker 3: do you think? And then when that person said, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, why do I have this? What do I do?

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Speaker 3: They should have gone, oh shit, I shouldn't have released it.

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Speaker 3: But it doesn't. It doesn't feel what Rabbit I think

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Speaker 3: is a separate thing because I think they're fully cynical.

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Speaker 3: I think I think that they just.

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Speaker 5: Don't think give a shit.

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Speaker 3: It has to be held out separately daylight. It almost

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Speaker 3: feels like they just focus the simple people who chose

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Speaker 3: to well, well you said they were Alex. You said

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Speaker 3: there was there was something cynical.

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Speaker 7: About it, So I'm yeah, I mean I think for me,

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Speaker 7: like I said, I've used a lot of similar tablets

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Speaker 7: to this. So when they reached out and were like, hey,

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Speaker 7: we have this device, it's it's electronic paper. And they're

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Speaker 7: very careful of saying electronic paper, not eating, because that's

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Speaker 7: like an actual branded thing and eat ink will descend

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Speaker 7: from the heavens to just slap you down if you

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Speaker 7: use it inappropriately. And they said they're eat ink and

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Speaker 7: they they said they were electronic paper, really cool refresh rate,

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Speaker 7: and they wanted to like do this whole daylight thing

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Speaker 7: and the warm light stuff, and I thought all of it.

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Speaker 7: I think the warm light stuff is very unproven science.

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Speaker 7: That is just what is the where it's like, the

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Speaker 7: idea is if you look at an orange light before

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Speaker 7: you go to bed, that'll make you sleepy.

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Speaker 1: Blue light wakes you up and.

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Speaker 3: Makes you just proved this wasn't the case.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that was bad timing for daylight for sure because

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Speaker 6: required came out with that thing. It's like, yeah, like

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Speaker 6: all these studies are not conclusive and also some new

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Speaker 6: ones have proven it isn't really very cool.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's just like and so that's also eight hundred

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Speaker 7: dollars right right, it's eight hundred dollars.

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Speaker 6: That's the problem for me. So here's the thing I

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Speaker 6: don't think the CEO is. I had some time to

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Speaker 6: talk to the CEO and I in a vacuum in absentia.

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Speaker 6: I kind of was like, this guy's got to be

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Speaker 6: a charlatan, right, He's got to be gone for a

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Speaker 6: cash grab.

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Speaker 5: What he is? My take way was is that no,

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Speaker 5: he's he's a he's a.

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Speaker 6: Display nerd who really cares about making this particular kind

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Speaker 6: of display text looks and the display is cool, and

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Speaker 6: they like they didn't take an off the shelf component

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Speaker 6: from Sharp, which I also thought, and stuff it into

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Speaker 6: a white label Android tablet, which is what I thought

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Speaker 6: they did, Like this is that's that's just it was.

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Speaker 5: It's Android. But the hardware is they they built.

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Speaker 3: But did they make an effort with the software? Yeah?

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Speaker 6: The thing is that the devices they see that you know,

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Speaker 6: it's it's early. And this is the thing we complain

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Speaker 6: about with almost every product where it's like, yeah, well

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Speaker 6: this is just Niagara Laundra on top of Android.

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Speaker 5: But we have all these ideas.

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Speaker 6: I'm like, great delivery ideas before I.

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Speaker 5: Have a press like, aren't you It's very frustrating.

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Speaker 3: I wish I could do that. With the bank. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I've got the money this month. However I will one

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Speaker 3: day and I'll have lots of it. Well, I mean

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Speaker 3: that's how I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: That's a called a credit card.

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Speaker 7: And then the understanding is Okay, you have to pay

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Speaker 7: extra because you borrowed it. Whereas these companies are like,

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Speaker 7: hey give us your money. We're gonna give you a product,

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Speaker 7: it's not going to be a good product. But if

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Speaker 7: you just wait, and I'm like, no.

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Speaker 3: You should pay bad product.

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Speaker 1: Pay me to wait, pay me to wait?

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Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, I think the uncertain thing for me is like,

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Speaker 6: it's the price the thing that for daylight, if Daylight

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Speaker 6: was down at at you know, two hundred three hundred

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Speaker 6: bucks hundred four hundred, put that in a premium and

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Speaker 6: I'm like, look, okay, it's an intentional product for a

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Speaker 6: very specific market and and that's that's great.

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Speaker 5: So I hit them on that a lot.

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Speaker 6: I was like, you've got to make me understand why

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Speaker 6: this is seven hundred and twenty nine dollars and to

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Speaker 6: hear them tell it, it's the work that went into

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Speaker 6: the display, plus the tiny you know, minimum water quantities

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Speaker 6: they have to they have to hit.

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Speaker 1: So it's like so it's basically bit you got to eat.

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Speaker 5: No, No, it's like make it maybe even to make

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Speaker 5: a big margin on each tablet. That's the thing.

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Speaker 6: They were like, they are, No, I assume that at

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Speaker 6: least with that from the factory.

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Speaker 7: They just put in a lot of effort and these

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Speaker 7: things are much more expensive to make than they have to.

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Speaker 6: Which one I can see that side of it now,

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Speaker 6: Like I'm on clicks, like I've gotten some experience with that,

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Speaker 6: and I'm like, okay, I get it.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if it's true. I'm not. I don't

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Speaker 5: know enough to know.

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Speaker 1: No, eight hundred dollars, Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, today the click iPhone is now one thousand dollars eccessory.

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Speaker 3: Listeners at home. So Michael is using this case on

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Speaker 3: his on his iPhone. It's called a click size. It

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Speaker 3: is clicks for iPhone, and this allows you to type

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Speaker 3: with your with your figure. It's a nice click to

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Speaker 3: it a little keyboard. How much that cost?

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Speaker 5: This is one twenty nine or excuse me, one thirty

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Speaker 5: nine or one like it.

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Speaker 6: I do like it. And I'm not just saying that

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Speaker 6: because I am I so founder. I'm very biased.

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Speaker 3: You can't trust me, God damn it. So the thing

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Speaker 3: is with something like that is it actually feels useful

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Speaker 3: because people type stuff on their phone sometimes I'm.

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Speaker 1: Just like fucking around with it.

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Speaker 3: But actually that's the word thing. It's they feel like

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Speaker 3: less fun things to fuck around with these days. And

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Speaker 3: that's something even like CS for years has been like this.

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Speaker 3: Everything I'm sure next year is just going to be

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Speaker 3: all ai again. But even the years before it felt

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Speaker 3: like they were less fun things. There's the kind of

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Speaker 3: exterior ring of security camera, toilet light and dildo companies

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Speaker 3: or from China, and they're amazingly. They're called like the

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Speaker 3: Shengzong Chang Zong Dong romance company and they sell eleven

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Speaker 3: different products, many batteries, and they're all the very nice people.

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Speaker 3: Then you've got like the cat litter company that always

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Speaker 3: turns up. You've got the Wi Fi grail company that

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Speaker 3: always turns.

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Speaker 1: That one folding machine, the one.

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Speaker 3: Folding machine that will never launch. But even then the

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Speaker 3: folding machine a kind of like that. It's like a

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Speaker 3: folksy dumb product that will never launch. But otherwise it's

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Speaker 3: like where's the magic, Like when was the last time

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Speaker 3: we had something fun?

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Speaker 7: Even I mean I CES is a weird one because

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Speaker 7: it is so I think most of the people coming

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Speaker 7: there are coming to sell things in American markets, right,

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Speaker 7: And if you don't need that, if you sell online,

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Speaker 7: you don't necessarily need to go to CES and have

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Speaker 7: that big presence.

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Speaker 1: Because you don't. You can just sell directly to the consumer.

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Speaker 7: You can just see it and we see that with

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Speaker 7: stuff like like the stuff I'm really into right now

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Speaker 7: is ian Eo I think is how you say it,

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Speaker 7: which is like gaming console.

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Speaker 5: It looks like a giant sidekick, right, yeah, like that one.

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Speaker 1: It's called the I n Ao. It's a y A

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Speaker 1: n EO.

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Speaker 7: I'm absolutely massacring the name A y A n e

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Speaker 7: o the flip ds and this thing is the dumbest,

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Speaker 7: most fun.

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Speaker 1: Thing I've used in a while.

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Speaker 7: It's like a steam Deck. But if the steam Deck

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Speaker 7: ran on Windows and therefore sucked.

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Speaker 3: Two screens, why do you enjoy it?

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Speaker 1: I think I like it because it's different.

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Speaker 7: It's doing something new, and there's like like, Okay, the

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Speaker 7: software is garbage, but that's kind of their fault because

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Speaker 7: it's hard to do software, and like you shouldn't launch

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Speaker 7: things with garbage software.

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Speaker 1: Steam Deck it's fine.

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Speaker 7: But it's also cool because like there's like it's just

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Speaker 7: got a good display. There's like a really good thought

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Speaker 7: behind it, and it's like, you know what, there's gonna

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Speaker 7: be people who really really like this thing and are

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Speaker 7: gonna have fun with it, and it's mainly gonna be

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Speaker 7: nerds who want to play Nintendo DS ROMs.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, yes, cool, Well, that feels like the

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Speaker 3: first weird thing I've heard of in it while other

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Speaker 3: than like the Rabbit.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think the ones that become a success

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Speaker 6: are like almost unavoidably not as weird. Like the thing

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Speaker 6: that jumps to my mind is, what's the last time

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Speaker 6: I was really impressed by something that I kept after

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Speaker 6: the review period or bought after the review period. It

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Speaker 6: was the Meta ray bands.

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Speaker 5: It was like, wow, oh my god.

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Speaker 6: They stuff really good speakers, yeah, and a really and

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Speaker 6: a pretty good camera into sunglasses and a bunch of

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Speaker 6: AI stuff that you really shouldn't talk about.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, it's like it's it's a really great accessory.

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Speaker 3: I've heard good things.

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Speaker 7: They just they just work like on the train a lot. Yeah,

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Speaker 7: and it just sounds good and like everybody in the

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Speaker 7: train car gets to listen to my music with me.

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Speaker 7: But then I sound really good on phone call, so

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Speaker 7: I don't care.

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Speaker 3: How you can use some vocals. Yeah, So that's vergin

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Speaker 3: on useful.

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Speaker 7: It is absolutely extremely useful. Except for Meta.

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Speaker 3: How they make that.

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Speaker 1: They made it because they.

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Speaker 7: Have like Meta has this big vision for AR and VR, right,

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Speaker 7: so they have they have they have the whole the

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Speaker 7: quest and all of that junk, and then they were like, well,

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Speaker 7: we need to do AR stuff and we need to

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Speaker 7: start normalizing what AR is going to look like.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to start with.

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Speaker 3: These glasses so you can't see anything in them.

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Speaker 7: You can't know and so it's all audio. BOS was

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Speaker 7: doing this a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 5: That's right.

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Speaker 7: It's a few people who have done this, and it's like,

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Speaker 7: you know, when BOS did it was a stupid concept

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Speaker 7: and even the first set of ray bands were really stupid.

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Speaker 7: And then this time the quality was just good enough

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Speaker 7: where you're like, Okay, I get it now, I'm watch

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Speaker 7: of those they're like two fifty or something.

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Speaker 5: Oh god, yeah, between two and three hundred and something somewhere.

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Speaker 7: They're fairly It's one of those things where you're like,

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Speaker 7: I just got paid, I don't got any bills, do

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Speaker 7: anytime soon.

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Speaker 6: Let's do this, And they actually accomplished something that like

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Speaker 6: a lot of these AI companies that we've touched on

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Speaker 6: earlier have tried to do and sort of failed to do,

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Speaker 6: which is get you out of your phone. So for me,

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Speaker 6: I don't know, well, I'm a stupid influencer videot but

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Speaker 6: like thirty percent of the time.

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Speaker 5: It's just bad.

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Speaker 6: But like I'm firing up the camera, right, That's why

360
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,080
Speaker 6: I got my phone out, just to use the camera

361
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Speaker 6: for something. Yeah, and when you have a camera built

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Speaker 6: into your glasses, you can just literally hit a button

363
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Speaker 6: on it and.

364
00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:57,280
Speaker 5: How the land what you're looking at?

365
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Speaker 3: The human ice thirty five millimeters?

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Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, I have no I don't know what. I

367
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:01,560
Speaker 5: don't remember what the spect.

368
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,840
Speaker 1: The perspective is like weird because it's off.

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Speaker 3: Because of New York Times. He does lovely videos of

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00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,720
Speaker 3: him cooking using them. He's got his Burmese mount and

371
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,400
Speaker 3: dog Bruno, and he'll be like talking to Bruno and

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Speaker 3: like making stuff. He's got his name. That's fun. I

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00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,480
Speaker 3: actually really enjoy that stuff. It feels bad that Meta

374
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,200
Speaker 3: is doing it though, like the idea, but also how

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00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,200
Speaker 3: it feels also weird that Meta made something good. Well,

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Speaker 3: I'm just very confused because all right, the VR stuff

377
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,120
Speaker 3: with Quest, I know we're like meant to like most

378
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,120
Speaker 3: people like, oh the Quest is good. It isn't good.

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00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:41,560
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I'm very sorry. Casey, my very close friend,

380
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,320
Speaker 3: Casey's gonna hear it's gonna get pissed off and get

381
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:49,080
Speaker 3: a signal message. The quest's fine, But even the new one,

382
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,280
Speaker 3: I still get sick. Yeah, I still feel weird. It

383
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,360
Speaker 3: still doesn't go on my face.

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Speaker 7: Right. That's why they did the glasses is because they

385
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Speaker 7: know there's there's.

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Speaker 3: Half Alex on the glasses.

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Speaker 7: I'm coming back to the glasses because they like they

388
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 7: did they did these headsets and everybody was like, oh wait,

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00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,760
Speaker 7: this is not the future for AR and VR. People

390
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,720
Speaker 7: look stupid. Like I saw my nephew come like one day.

391
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,760
Speaker 7: I went over and I'm visiting him saying hi to everybody.

392
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:15,000
Speaker 7: I'm like, oh, where is he And they're like, oh,

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00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 7: he's upstairs. And I go upstairs and there's just a

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00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,440
Speaker 7: little kid all alone in a room, like wagging the

395
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,880
Speaker 7: sticks around. And that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: Like I wanted to give.

397
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:26,920
Speaker 7: Like I wanted to give him a wedgie, right, And

398
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,440
Speaker 7: I'm like, that's that's a bad response for an aunt,

399
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,800
Speaker 7: just like put my hand in my pocket and walk away.

400
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,400
Speaker 7: And and but that's the way it is for everybody.

401
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:35,600
Speaker 7: And so they're like, Okay, we got to do these

402
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,520
Speaker 7: glasses because if we do these glasses, then that won't

403
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,280
Speaker 7: be as dumb and stupid looking.

404
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,520
Speaker 6: And I should just give a shout out to a

405
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,120
Speaker 6: company that not a lot of people remember, and I

406
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,360
Speaker 6: bet you do, but we remember Vocals by North.

407
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,280
Speaker 3: I wonder the name. I remember what they did.

408
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:54,400
Speaker 6: They shipped a pair of glasses that were very like

409
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 6: they were a little chunk here. They were obviously something

410
00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,440
Speaker 6: a little a little off about these.

411
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,160
Speaker 8: Glasses, right, horrible display, but no, but they had a display,

412
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:03,400
Speaker 8: and when you put them on your face, all of

413
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,960
Speaker 8: a sudden, what materialized in your vision was a little

414
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,119
Speaker 8: tron like heads up display and you could see your

415
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 8: text messages from your phone.

416
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,640
Speaker 6: You could get drive driving directions, term by turn directions,

417
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,000
Speaker 6: little points of interest things, and it was like it

418
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:15,800
Speaker 6: was appearing in your eyeball. Of course, it was very

419
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 6: strange because when you're talking to somebody, you'd see they'd

420
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,520
Speaker 6: look kind of above your eyebrow, and then you'd be.

421
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,560
Speaker 5: Like, are you are you checking your messages while.

422
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 3: I'm talking to you?

423
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:25,920
Speaker 8: No?

424
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:27,680
Speaker 1: No, no, that's where you get the sunglass version.

425
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:28,160
Speaker 3: Right.

426
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,840
Speaker 5: But like, this was a great idea.

427
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,640
Speaker 6: The technology was very fascinating, and then, as often happens,

428
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 6: they were purchased by Google, and Google either mismanaged it

429
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:38,359
Speaker 6: or killed it and.

430
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:40,240
Speaker 3: Killed it probably both.

431
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's just brutal, I mean, and that was the

432
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:44,800
Speaker 6: last time I felt like we were on the cusp

433
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Speaker 6: of maybe the next chapter of Personal Mobile Computer.

434
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Speaker 3: I yeah, Google gloss look cool. I never got to

435
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,280
Speaker 3: play with Yeah, And I think Robert Scobel has done

436
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,879
Speaker 3: a lot of bad things, But that weird picture of

437
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,960
Speaker 3: him in the shower I genuinely the show. So there's

438
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:07,040
Speaker 3: a really disgusting fellow called Robert Scobell, famous for reasons

439
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,200
Speaker 3: I'm not actually sure. He kisses up to Elon Musk

440
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,720
Speaker 3: now wants to marry his tesla. I believe I haven't

441
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,440
Speaker 3: really checked that fact and its opinions, so you can't

442
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,560
Speaker 3: sue me. So Robert Scobel took a picture wearing his

443
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 3: Google Glass while what looks like screaming in the shower,

444
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:25,880
Speaker 3: and I mean.

445
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,919
Speaker 7: Just a lot of people talked about that photo.

446
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 3: It was very the inverse of pornography. But that moment

447
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,040
Speaker 3: was really unfortunate because Google glass was too expensive and

448
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:39,639
Speaker 3: all that, And I don't think anyone should have ever

449
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,600
Speaker 3: looked at it as the future arriving that day. But

450
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:43,959
Speaker 3: the idea of a heads up displays cool. I think

451
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,160
Speaker 3: heads up displays are cool. I think yeah, I don't

452
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 3: agree with thee. We need to get away from our

453
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 3: phone's thing. What we need is better society so that

454
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,280
Speaker 3: it's worth looking away. Sam, that's that's the Actually, this

455
00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,560
Speaker 3: is an escapism. We made a tool to escape from

456
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,000
Speaker 3: the world rules, kind of ripping off paris marks from

457
00:18:58,040 --> 00:18:59,640
Speaker 3: tech one save us there. He made a similar point

458
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,680
Speaker 3: about the pro to distract us from real life, which

459
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,680
Speaker 3: is a bit much. He's not totally off Boom. It's

460
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,119
Speaker 3: weird like heads up displays feel like a future. I

461
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,600
Speaker 3: don't know if it's the big capital T, but that's

462
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,240
Speaker 3: a way that they could be useful while getting us

463
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,800
Speaker 3: away from constantly staring. Because there are times where I'd

464
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,520
Speaker 3: like to walk through New York City and just listen

465
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,800
Speaker 3: to music but also know where I'm going because I

466
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 3: don't ever and heads up display would be good. But

467
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,600
Speaker 3: it's almost like they shouldn't be trying for fifteen years,

468
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,160
Speaker 3: that they need to get to a completely different level

469
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,480
Speaker 3: of chip plus display plus everything else and then do

470
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 3: it really well.

471
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,560
Speaker 7: It's just because they're all so desperate to be the

472
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,159
Speaker 7: next iPhone hyper like, like I love the you know,

473
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,280
Speaker 7: I think everybody in this room currently has an iPhone.

474
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,399
Speaker 1: They're they're very good devices.

475
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, and everybody wants to be the next one because

476
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 7: then they get the thirty percent lock in they get They.

477
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,159
Speaker 5: Are just all just cultural cachet.

478
00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 7: Yeah, it just makes you the next big thing. And

479
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:03,160
Speaker 7: so Meta has been doing that. Google's been doing that poorly. Uh, Samsung,

480
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:04,800
Speaker 7: you know a lot of these people do it and

481
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,000
Speaker 7: they all fail at it because the text is not

482
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 7: there yet, right, Like glasses, You're not gonna get glasses

483
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 7: until you have actually good displays that can also pass.

484
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 3: Through and can turn off and make way with.

485
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 7: You, and most importantly that you don't look stupid wearing

486
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,920
Speaker 7: Like if I want to give you a widge Weggie,

487
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 7: you you've lost the plot. And I'm I'm liberal with

488
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 7: the wedgies. So actually it's like actorom the urge.

489
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,760
Speaker 3: So with my sung glasses on the entire time, you

490
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 3: would have to know, but I would, Well, then there's

491
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:42,840
Speaker 3: halfway they take them off. By the second pat.

492
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 6: You got to get some with the details of the

493
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,400
Speaker 6: flames on them.

494
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 1: Well, guy Fieri moment.

495
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,440
Speaker 3: So it feels like augmented reality is at least where

496
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 3: that could be fun now. Yeah, but it feels like

497
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,760
Speaker 3: it's not twenty seven, twenty fifteen when they had that

498
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 3: weird burst of them. It feels like they've all stepped

499
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 3: back for it, which sucks because it feels like we

500
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 3: actually need R and D money there.

501
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 6: Ye, yes, because I feel like that's the thing. The

502
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 6: point you were just making, Alex, is that the technology

503
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,640
Speaker 6: needs to catch up to the aspiration, right. And we've

504
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,120
Speaker 6: seen a lot of the stemo and again the most

505
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 6: promising one got bought and killed.

506
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I've never seen anything get close.

507
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 1: I mean I think that.

508
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 7: I think the ray Bands are close, and they're planning

509
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 7: apparently to put a lot more like invest a lot

510
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 7: more there right Like they just this week, I think,

511
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 7: did a whole reorg we're recording this, did a whole

512
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 7: reorg of this of the meta division.

513
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: And so they're like, Oculus, you go over here, and

514
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 1: you go over like.

515
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 7: An under an ad sales guy who well, I don't

516
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 7: remember the name, And then the ray Bands they're like, Okay,

517
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,199
Speaker 7: this is like this is our focus. They've got plans

518
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 7: for some glasses the next couple of years that are

519
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 7: like much more involved. We've heard like Google Bob Focal

520
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 7: and we haven't heard anything there and so it could

521
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 7: be dead. But also like everybody's talking about AR right now,

522
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 7: so it feels like maybe they're coming back.

523
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 3: I think that. So I had an episode about this

524
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 3: rock com bubble. Yeah, well, I think what they're doing

525
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,439
Speaker 3: right now is freaking out because they don't have and

526
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 3: they all want to be the next iPhone. But what

527
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 3: they realize is there is no next iPhone right now.

528
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 3: There is no next Google or Facebook or anything.

529
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: So they're chasing AI.

530
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 3: That's they're chasing AI. But come on, come on.

531
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 6: I was going to say, you've done a very good

532
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 6: job in the past three weeks deistrating on this very

533
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 6: show why AI is not as exciting one would.

534
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 3: That's a good point to bring up, though. How do

535
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 3: you two feel about AI?

536
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 6: Well, I feel I'll say this deptails with what you

537
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 6: were just saying. I the companies are not the only

538
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 6: ones desperate for the next iPhone. I am desperate anytime again. Pierce,

539
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 6: you know, wrote that little blurb about you know, the

540
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 6: season of AI Gadgets is here before any of the

541
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 6: Cumane and Rabbit stuff came out, and I was like

542
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 6: crossing my fingers as somebody who covers the stuff, and

543
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 6: as somebody who has loved the stuff for as long

544
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 6: as I can remember.

545
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 5: I love the excitement.

546
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 6: Of new things coming out and introducing new possibilities, and

547
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 6: I feel like the A. I have an increasingly severe

548
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 6: grudge against the AI bubble, the hip cycle for raising

549
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,439
Speaker 6: my hopes actually putting some pretty cool hardware in my head.

550
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 6: Say what you want about the humane pament that hardware

551
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 6: rocks and then absolutely cutting its legs out from under

552
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,199
Speaker 6: it because most of its functionality is based on an

553
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 6: LLM that you can't trust because it tells you the

554
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 6: sun is going to set forty minutes ago at eleven

555
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 6: in the morning.

556
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think like AI is.

557
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 7: You know, I'm super excited about Apple Intelligence, mainly because

558
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 7: I'm going to be able to make the best ship

559
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 7: posts to send my friends because you can do image

560
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 7: generation and it's hideous. It's terrible looking, and I'm so

561
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 7: excited to just troll people. But otherwise, like you know,

562
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 7: AI is one of those things like we've built lying

563
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 7: machines and as far as large language models go, they're

564
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 7: really bad at it, to the point where Tim Cook's like, well,

565
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 7: wouldn't say one hundred, get it right. I believe that's

566
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 7: actually a bad thing you to.

567
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 1: Say, dude.

568
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 7: And everybody's saying that because they're like, don't worry about it,

569
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 7: don't worry about it. Meanwhile, the researchers are like, actually,

570
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 7: at language models, aren't the thing. Don't you should worry

571
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 7: about it. But everybody's like, but we can make money now.

572
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: And so we can't.

573
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 3: Well when he's not serving PC gamers like me. But

574
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 3: that's the thing though, That's something he was saying that

575
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 3: Michael was actually kind of the impetus of us being

576
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,359
Speaker 3: here today. Something in this show that people say, people

577
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 3: say about me all the time is oh, you're just

578
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: a pessimist like this stuff. I love this ship. Do

579
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 3: you know how excited I am want to get a

580
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 3: new dumb gadget? I can mess around you.

581
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:46,679
Speaker 1: You've got a charger right here.

582
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,360
Speaker 3: Anchor charger. I'm so excited. I got two, so I've

583
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 3: got redundancy. So happy with that stuff. I love my

584
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 3: little gizmos and gadgets. I love this stuff, and I

585
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 3: haven't really had anything to be The steam Deck was

586
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 3: the last time I was really like excite and then

587
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 3: excited after yeah, and kind of the Vision Pro.

588
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 1: Oh, interesting, but.

589
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 3: It's like there's always a but, and the butt is

590
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 3: usually Yeah. But the people who made it, they didn't

591
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 3: really give it to real people. Yeah, they gave it

592
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 3: to a focus group and it was a McKinsey one,

593
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 3: so three quarters of them were paid to say whatever

594
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 3: they wanted to hear and the rest didn't turn up.

595
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 3: And it's just frustrating because there was a time. I

596
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 3: think it's just love the rockkombabble. There was a twenty

597
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 3: year period and you've got new stuff, new stuff, new stuff.

598
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 3: Even the bad stuff was kind of funny. Yeah, even

599
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 3: all this dorky indieg Go bullshit, like the Coolest Cooler

600
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 3: which had a speaker at a Marguerite. You knew that

601
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: was never gonna work. You kind of enjoyed them try,

602
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 3: and then they scammed a bunch of people that was

603
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 3: also bad. Yeah, but you stopped getting fun, like there

604
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 3: wasn't something to look forward to, like the Vision Pro.

605
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 3: Reason they brought it up is my first hour with

606
00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,040
Speaker 3: it was so exciting, and then I realized that I

607
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 3: had like light bleeding in so I started fucking with

608
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 3: it and I couldn't get it on right and I

609
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 3: spent like another hour trying to make it work, and

610
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 3: it just turned out that like I didn't have the

611
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 3: right size thing, which dramatically improved it, and I was

612
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 3: using it fairly often. I'm like, this is not there yet,

613
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 3: but this is different and cool and watching movies on

614
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 3: its great. Then I tried to watch on a plane.

615
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: How'd that go?

616
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 3: I got a migrant and I have yet to finish June.

617
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 3: People say this and Ultimore or whatever it is from

618
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 3: that to me all the time. But it's it's very

619
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 3: strange because it almost doesn't feel like anyone's trying.

620
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, well go ahead.

621
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 7: I was gonna say, like, the VR thing is a

622
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 7: weird one because it is so dependent on the person.

623
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 5: Right.

624
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 7: Like I had a friend who also just recently did

625
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 7: a cross country flight, wore the vision pro watched June

626
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 7: and June two nice back to back, and they were

627
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 7: they loved.

628
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: It, absolute legends.

629
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, whereas you would have presumably thrown up everywhere and

630
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:58,360
Speaker 7: they would My.

631
00:26:58,320 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 3: Head just felt like it would explode it.

632
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 5: Yeah.

633
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 7: Uh, and and and that's just because like your your

634
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 7: vestibular response is totally different than their vestibular response, and

635
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 7: it's that's what's.

636
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: Gonna happen there?

637
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,239
Speaker 7: And that's why VR is a dead end, and that's

638
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 7: why Meta now has like been like you go over here,

639
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 7: we tried it.

640
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 3: Did watchful Hand of Baz?

641
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, we did that. What was it the Meta Quest pro?

642
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:20,400
Speaker 1: That was that the one.

643
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 3: Where they had the pro one they've canceled.

644
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,919
Speaker 7: Yeah, where they released it and everybody's like this is

645
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 7: garbage and they're.

646
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, no, they released it. I think what it

647
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 3: was was they released it at the same time as

648
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 3: the Quest two, which was like three hundred four hundred bucks.

649
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: People like, this is pretty good. Yeah, Like the expectations

650
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 3: were low, and they're like, but what if you paid

651
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 3: fourteen hundred dollars for something that wasn't as good? Yeah,

652
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 3: but it was more powerful?

653
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 6: Well yeah, and that's you were saying a second ago,

654
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 6: like it doesn't feel like people are trying anymore.

655
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 5: I think that's not it. I think people are trying

656
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 5: at the wrong thing.

657
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 6: Yes, former journalists, uh should be become a journalist again

658
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 6: because we miss him. David Reddick was just complaining about

659
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 6: this on LinkedIn and he was just like, you know,

660
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 6: with respect to the product managers, who I call my friend,

661
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:07,160
Speaker 6: like product managers are ruining the segment because and even

662
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 6: if you take it out above the PM like, it's

663
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 6: like companies have realized that if they do enough marketing

664
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 6: to create artificial demand, then that is a way to

665
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 6: make money in the short term and you can keep

666
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 6: the business growing.

667
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 3: Well, is that just what they believe is the case?

668
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 6: It may well be right for the long term. It's

669
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 6: certainly not true. Yeah, But for the short term it

670
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 6: may be. You get spike and it feels like there's

671
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 6: ten times as much of that as there is it

672
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 6: for every ten examples of that, there's one example of

673
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 6: a company it's actually like, hey, we actually have a

674
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 6: good idea. Maybe it's a little weird idea, but we

675
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 6: think enough people buy it it will buy it and

676
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 6: find delight in it that we can make a business

677
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 6: out of it, right Yeah. And if more people did

678
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 6: that instead of like, what, how can we make money

679
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 6: and get out as quickly as possible, Right, then I

680
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 6: think we would have those glory days.

681
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 3: You can make the money and get up by doing

682
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 3: some people want to buy it. It's just frustrating, true, Alex.

683
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 3: It's are you enjoying any devices other than the strange

684
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 3: North White steam Deck, Yeah.

685
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 7: The garbage steam deck that I'm not even going to

686
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 7: or because you should buy it. It's it's it's not

687
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 7: going to be good for most people, but it's so

688
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 7: much fun to like fuck around with. I don't know,

689
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 7: I like that's one of the reasons I got really

690
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 7: into e ink because it felt like it was much

691
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 7: closer to like there's felt like there was something there

692
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 7: that could be solved pretty quickly. But that was like

693
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 7: five or six years ago, and it hasn't happened.

694
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: What's slowing it down.

695
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 7: Because everybody wants to make money through vertical integration, so

696
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 7: they're like, well, I don't want you to actually get

697
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 7: anybody else's books on your device, I want you to

698
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 7: get my books on.

699
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 3: So everyone wants to do a platform play, right.

700
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: So everybody's doing a platform play.

701
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 7: So it's it's money again, right, Like everybody's like, I

702
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 7: need all as much of the money as I can

703
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 7: get to my little side.

704
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: Because Apple did that and it worked really well for Apple.

705
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 3: It's like they never worked for anyone else.

706
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: Well, I mean Amazon, it kind of works.

707
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: Amazon already had that scam going.

708
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, that's.

709
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 5: True, and you haven't seen that meaningful evolution in the

710
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 5: kindle with such the scribe in a long time.

711
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 7: Which isn't insane garbage compared to a lot of the

712
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 7: stuff because like China, and this is the other point

713
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 7: is there's a lot of it happening in China.

714
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: A ton do you.

715
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 3: Ever use the odin the odin? So there was this

716
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 3: It's an Android gaming console before the Steam deck. So

717
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 3: just to be clear, okay, probably not as fun, but

718
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 3: super fast. You could do PlayStation remote on it almost

719
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 3: like predecessor to the PlayStation portal, which is literally just

720
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,239
Speaker 3: playing PlayStation and it was great. And what they did

721
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 3: is a crazy idea. They were like, why don't we

722
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 3: make it really easy to run the specific gaming apps

723
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 3: you like? And what if we made the buttons good?

724
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: Yeah?

725
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 3: And what are crazy? You like? Sold out? Indigogo did

726
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 3: really well. Comes out of China, and it's like this

727
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 3: current sinophobic climate's fucking frustrating because let them in, please

728
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 3: borrow the innovation from them. They seem China seems to

729
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 3: be fucking trying with tech right.

730
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 7: And one of the reasons they're trying because I kind

731
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 7: of went down a rabbit hole with the e inc

732
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 7: thing where I was like why is nobody trying this,

733
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 7: Like you're getting all these really cool e ink readers

734
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 7: out of China and nothing here. And it was because

735
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 7: we're so obsessed with that lock in. We're so obsessed

736
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 7: with how do we build that bigger model. We don't

737
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 7: want to just sell one thing. We want to sell

738
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 7: you the services, We want to sell you the platform.

739
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 7: And America is just super hyper focused on that, where China's.

740
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I mean I don't care who he used, well,

741
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: I mean by our ship.

742
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 3: I mean as they also have one monopoly.

743
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, it's like we all operate within this one.

744
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 3: We're all controlled by ten Cent. But yeah, but it's

745
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 3: frustrating because I feel like what it might also be

746
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 3: is that they're like, how do we make the next

747
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 3: trillion dollar company or billion dollar company? They're like, what

748
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 3: if you made a fifty million dollar company?

749
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 7: No, yeah, fuck that, Well, you got you gotta you

750
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 7: gotta get your your your investors, right, you gotta get

751
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 7: your stockholders.

752
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: You gotta do all of that.

753
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 7: And apparently money is not free. People don't just give

754
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 7: money away.

755
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 3: Got to give one hundred million dollars to Adam Newman

756
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 3: again so that you can make the next bad company.

757
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: I think that happened.

758
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 2: It did.

759
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 3: He got two hundred and fifty million dollars as well.

760
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 7: Just I want to fail that hard up that sounds

761
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 7: rate so good.

762
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 6: Well, and like we I don't mean to keep bringing

763
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 6: it back to humane. But that was the thing I

764
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 6: kept saying in the human briefing. I was just like, guys,

765
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 6: I know this is not what you want to hear,

766
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 6: but this would be a great little scessary for the phone.

767
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 6: You could still do a lot of cool things and

768
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 6: have it glink to your phone, and then it wouldn't

769
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 6: be well a bunch of things.

770
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 3: It did not work, but.

771
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: You didn't catch on fire. That's that's exactly.

772
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 5: I'm still here.

773
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: You're still here.

774
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 5: But like the it wasn't a bold enough vision. And

775
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 5: they didn't say this, I assume this.

776
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 6: It wasn't a bold enough vision one to get a

777
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 6: bunch of people motivated to do. Because if you're replacing

778
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 6: the smartphone, big quotes around that, well, that's a that's

779
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 6: a mission that's at least difficult, that's like a moonshot.

780
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 5: And then B, you can't get enough investors excited to

781
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 5: your point to give you all the all the money

782
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 5: that you just want to put together just a.

783
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 3: Note for listeners. That's the humane AI pin Google it.

784
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 3: It's terrible. Seven dollars twenty four dollars a month, just

785
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 3: the basic thing. But the human was so weird though.

786
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 3: And this is the thing that I will never understand

787
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 3: and they will never tell me, is how did you

788
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 3: put this out the door? How did you look at

789
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 3: this thing?

790
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 8: Oh?

791
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: It overheats in two minutes. Oh chat GBT sometimes doesn't work.

792
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 3: Basic shame. I mean I would not want to do it.

793
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 3: I would be like.

794
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 7: They kind of had to write, like they kind of

795
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 7: hit their their point where it's like, shoul or get

796
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 7: off the pot.

797
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 5: This is the question. I don't know. I asked that

798
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 5: about it.

799
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 3: Is it rabbit cynicle one believe?

800
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 6: I think Rabbit had to launch before the what we

801
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 6: all knew was gonna happen, which was Google was going

802
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 6: to do us, Apple was going to do.

803
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 5: Yeah.

804
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 3: People saw how it operates so that they.

805
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: Could say this is it looks cool?

806
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, it does look cool.

807
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 3: He is on the board of teenage Engineering. He is

808
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,959
Speaker 3: on the board This boys are sick. Okay, we're going

809
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 3: to talk about the rabbit. It's time, so those listeners

810
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 3: who don't know about the rabbit. Is this two hundred

811
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 3: dollars AI device and it claims to have something on

812
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 3: it called a large Action model. Large Action Model claims

813
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 3: it was trained on six hundred plus apps to distinctly

814
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 3: control raps, but for some reason it only launched with

815
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 3: four or five. Turns out that when you ask the

816
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 3: lamb to do something, it would sometimes just not work.

817
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 3: Sometimes you would say or to me McDonald and it

818
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 3: would go, sorry, Uber isn't working. And it turns out,

819
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 3: due to some friendly hackers that it turned out that

820
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 3: it isn't actually using a large action model. It's connected

821
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 3: to Playwright, a script thing. I'm sure more technical listeners

822
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 3: are going to email me corrections. I'm very sorry. But

823
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 3: in short, instead of running a large action model an

824
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: actual AI thing, it was triggering scripts using chat GPT.

825
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 3: Now I could do a whole episode in surprise. I

826
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 3: haven't over the whole thing that there used to be

827
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 3: an NFT company, but putting all of the obvious horrible

828
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 3: things aside, it just fucking sucks. Yeah, it's just really

829
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 3: bad in a way that is almost unbelievable. I recommend

830
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 3: you going look Dave three d did a whole thing

831
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 3: about it before it came out that was very good.

832
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 3: But go and look at Linuses and Linus I know

833
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 3: people have problems with him, but his the thing about the

834
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 3: rabbit was great because it was mostly him trying stuff

835
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 3: it not working and goes what what what, which was

836
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 3: very entertaining.

837
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: It's very fun.

838
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 3: But it's just broken. Yeah. Yeah, and they raised another

839
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 3: thirty two million dollars in March. It feels like I

840
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 3: am living in a different universe to the rest of

841
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 3: the world. I see this. It's bad. The YouTube's like,

842
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 3: this is the worst thing I've ever used. Investorsla absolutely, Yeah,

843
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 3: I need to get in on the shit now. Yeah.

844
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 7: Yeah. Elon Muska just sent them, wrote them a check.

845
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 7: He did not, to my knowledge, write them a check.

846
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 7: He wouldn't do that.

847
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 3: It's an epic advice device. Yeah.

848
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: I don't think you're alone.

849
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 7: I think there is a weird tension happening where we

850
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 7: have Silicon Valley. We have all these investors in Silicon

851
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 7: Valley who are all just desperate to make money and

852
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 7: never took a single history English course like any liberal arts.

853
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: They think that's stupid. And then there's the rest of

854
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: the world.

855
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, and these people are so focused on money they

856
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 7: forget the rest of the world. They'd never touch grass.

857
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 7: And so they'll put on the vision pro and be like,

858
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 7: this is going to change the face of computing and

859
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 7: not consider the billion of different other ways people use computers.

860
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: Or they'll see the rabbit with the worst name on

861
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: the planet.

862
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 7: By the way, a majority of women I know the

863
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 7: rabbit was coming out was like.

864
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 3: Why wouta pay two hundred dollars for that?

865
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,839
Speaker 1: I got one in my drawer next to my bed.

866
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 5: What the hell, guys, I'm dying to know more about

867
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 5: that weight. I didn't even put that.

868
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, the rabbit is a very notorio like that's that's

869
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,439
Speaker 7: a term for a whole type of sex toy.

870
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 5: That's what is. Yeah, I had no idea.

871
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, and so like when they were like, we've got

872
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 7: the rabbit, and I was like, do you oh, this

873
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 7: is a different rat.

874
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 3: Like now I'll bring out the app.

875
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: You're like, whoa, what's happened to cees. I knew you

876
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 1: guys were doing sex tech now.

877
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 3: But wow, so I moved the adult thing away from

878
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 3: c That's depending on but I think I think that

879
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 3: it is that that there's the kind of disconnection from

880
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 3: the real world. But there's also I don't know if

881
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 3: these people use stuff. I just don't.

882
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 1: I don't think they do.

883
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 3: I don't know if they use it. Like I really

884
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: want to just get behind Marc Andreeson at one point

885
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 3: and can't say the rest of that. But I mean,

886
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 3: look over his shoulder and see the font size on

887
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 3: his iPhone right like I want to see it because

888
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 3: I don't think these people interact with the real world

889
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 3: or touch grass. But I also don't think they like

890
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 3: I don't think well app vision pro is different because

891
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 3: public company whatever. Yeah, but like the rabbit, for example,

892
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 3: I don't think they fucking cared like these little pigs

893
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 3: will buy this.

894
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 7: Well, they'd already bought it, right like, like they announced

895
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 7: the thing, they made these huge promises, they did a

896
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 7: ton of pre sales, and then it came out and

897
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 7: we haven't heard how.

898
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 1: The pre sales or how the sales have.

899
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 3: Been thousand units after Oh we don't.

900
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and I don't know what we're going to

901
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: hear about that.

902
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 3: Right, like we are not it's coming from.

903
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 6: I think, you know, I mean, if I'm with you,

904
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 6: I think there are dubious business motivations to a lot

905
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 6: of this right. But I can't help but think that

906
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 6: if I was inside one of these organizations that I

907
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,479
Speaker 6: wouldn't look no, I know, I would have been caught

908
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 6: up in it. I would have been caught up in

909
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 6: the ambition. I would have been caught up in the promise,

910
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 6: especially when you consider that the design process of a

911
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 6: lot of this stuff goes back to the time when

912
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 6: we were most of us are getting our first chance

913
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 6: to interact with chet GPT and I'm like to make

914
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 6: me a text adventure in the style of Star Trek

915
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:53,959
Speaker 6: Deep Space nine.

916
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it did it, and I was like, oh,

917
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 5: oh my god.

918
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 6: You know, I remember where I was when that happened.

919
00:37:59,000 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 6: It was like the first time I put on a

920
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 6: our headset. I remember the first time I was actually

921
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 6: blown away by AI. And if I was in an

922
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 6: inside a company or a recently hybrid companies like we're

923
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 6: going to change the world with this tech, I think

924
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 6: I would have I probably would have been on that

925
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 6: boat for like a year before I started getting really internally.

926
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 7: Initially, Yeah, yeah, I like for me, I used it

927
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 7: and it just reminded me of the aim bots from

928
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 7: like I'm old here. I'm some apologies to the audience.

929
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,320
Speaker 7: I'm sure you're all twelve. Hi, why are you listening.

930
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: To be sure I'm older than you.

931
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're old people.

932
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 7: But the AIME bots, you'd go and you'd log in

933
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 7: and you type and the type back and then there's

934
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 7: we've seen this so many times and this one I

935
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 7: was like, Okay, yeah, we're back to this. We're back

936
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 7: to this, Like the pattern recognition and recreation machine has

937
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 7: gotten just really really good, and I was like, that's fine.

938
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's kind of That's actually where I was as well, like, oh,

939
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 3: you can do a textpace adventure. And I think if

940
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 3: I'd have had that, I would have gone cool, all

941
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 3: right and just kind of just say because I run

942
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 3: a pofhe yeah, I have clients in AI, but nothing

943
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 3: that touches this show because I'm scared of that. And

944
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 3: it's like it's a few clients night who have even

945
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:07,799
Speaker 3: just do a I think that's the thing I don't.

946
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 3: Surprisingly enough, AI companies aren't super excited to work with

947
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: me when I'm talking about them actually having to do stuff.

948
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 3: But it's like with jat GPT, for example, I know

949
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 3: I actually understand totally Michael, why you were excited like that.

950
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 3: I can understand why others might have been excited by that.

951
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 3: I just don't understand how they're still that way because

952
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 3: nothing has happened. Money, money, I guess.

953
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: But I mean money is a very powerful driver if.

954
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 3: You work for a financial institution, I get, But like

955
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 3: Gadget review, even just regular people don't seem excited. It's

956
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 3: just so weird. It feels like living in two realities

957
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 3: at once.

958
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 1: Yeah.

959
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 3: And like there was a sign that someone posted on

960
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 3: Blue Sky was like we put the AI in an

961
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 3: I n ipa. It was a Dell advert.

962
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 8: What.

963
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I feel like I like it. I

964
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 3: have a friend who is in a dot com boom company,

965
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 3: like a textbook related one, and I'm really tempted to

966
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 3: call him and be like, was it like this? Was

967
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 3: it like this? And if he says yes, I'm gonna

968
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 3: do nothing because I can't invest in anything now because

969
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 3: I run a bloody podcast. Can't do anything. You can't

970
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 3: short ship. It's like the big short. But Steve Goss

971
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 3: just like, well, I'll just go home.

972
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 5: I guess. I think like we have to give give

973
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 5: credit to the to the entire thing.

974
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 6: First of all, the marketing approach to AI has been

975
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 6: really frustrating because everything is a I know, stuff that

976
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 6: was that existed before in its has been ported directly

977
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 6: and unchanged and just rebranded as AI, just much in

978
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 6: the same way.

979
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 5: I think somebody brought up to me at the at

980
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 5: the John Deere event I was just at because we

981
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,240
Speaker 5: will not be talking about okay.

982
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: I had so many.

983
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 5: Questions somebody brought up.

984
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 6: I was like, yeah, it's like slapping a non GMO

985
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 6: label on an unchanged box of wheat.

986
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 5: Things like.

987
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 6: It's like, okay, well, AI is just being marketed much

988
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 6: too aggressively, so you have stuff stuck in here, kind

989
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:53,919
Speaker 6: of getting caught in the in the flat.

990
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 5: That's like, that's really.

991
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 6: Useful, But it's it's these It's a seasoning that you

992
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 6: put on something that is already Yeah, it's not in

993
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 6: itself a self contained thing capable of driving a whole

994
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 6: new range of especially gadgets, which again makes me very

995
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 6: sad because every time you would touch a new AI,

996
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,959
Speaker 6: I think the a the plod note, that little self

997
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 6: contained AI voice recorder, was like, this is very cool.

998
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 6: I wish it were an alternate Universe in the year

999
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 6: two thousand and I could actually get excited about this

1000
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 6: because what this is is a feature that belongs in

1001
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 6: the Google recorder and oh sorry, I just finished this

1002
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 6: video and that's exactly what Google built in to their

1003
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 6: recorder when that was done, and I was like, okay,

1004
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 6: well with that for now.

1005
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's bummer pivots A.

1006
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 7: Yeah everybody, I mean yeah, I think they're just going

1007
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 7: to pivot back and forth. Everybody's gonna be constant oscillating

1008
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 7: until like something sticks because they're so desperate for that

1009
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 7: next thing. They're so eager that everybody's just looking for

1010
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 7: the money. They know it somewhere, and like, right now

1011
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 7: it is all a Nvidia stock and they're hoping that

1012
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 7: it will somehow come to them at some point.

1013
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 3: Why not you, I don't know, It's like, why not

1014
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 3: build some fucking hardware to put video stuff in? I

1015
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 3: realized those black mail chips aren't what we're talking about,

1016
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 3: But I don't know. It's almost as if no one

1017
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 3: wants to do the work in the middle. They're like,

1018
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 3: I've got an idea and I need to make a product.

1019
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 3: Can I skip the middle part? It's boring, it's expensive.

1020
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 3: It takes forever. I need to have this shit on

1021
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 3: the market in six months and it can't be. And

1022
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 3: if it is, the growth that all costs for our

1023
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 3: economy over in about a hundred times. But it's also

1024
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 3: frustrating because I actually think, if they put in the effort,

1025
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 3: this would be cool. When it comes to AI. Part

1026
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 3: of my frustration comes back to that thing we were

1027
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 3: saying earlier about how we've been let down, because I

1028
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 3: would actually love it if I could reliably tell my

1029
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 3: phone to take distinct actions. Send the calendar invite to

1030
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 3: Alex and Michael, Yes, three pm at the iHeartRadio studio,

1031
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 3: and just fucking send it and it would know how

1032
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 3: Maybe it goes do you want Eastern apecific time? Or wait?

1033
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 3: I said, New York you already know. And it sends

1034
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 3: the invites and it finds your emails. That would be useful.

1035
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 3: I wish in my regular email job, I can have

1036
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 3: it through the spreadsheets and the documents. It can't. It

1037
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 3: can't actually do these things. Yeah, and this please make

1038
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 3: that the future. No, it isn't the future. We need

1039
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 3: to They can't even describe what it is, and it's just.

1040
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 7: Well, because it can't do that future yet, right, Like,

1041
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 7: there's the things we have now. The thing that everybody

1042
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 7: got really excited about was they released GPT three point five.

1043
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 7: Everybody went, oh, crap, this can write this can write stuff,

1044
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 7: and it can write it not like garbage for once,

1045
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 7: and this is huge. And all of the researchers just

1046
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 7: roll their eyes because they'd seen this for ages. They

1047
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:32,439
Speaker 7: were like, yeah, it's a larg language bottle.

1048
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: That's what they do.

1049
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 7: They calm down and everybody's like no, And then the

1050
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 7: downloads increased, the downloads increase, and everybody's like, wait, I

1051
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 7: think there's some money here, right, and let's just like

1052
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 7: ride this hype just right into the ground as long

1053
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 7: as we can write it as long as we can

1054
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 7: until it gets it around.

1055
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: And that's pretty much what happened just right.

1056
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm trying to im like I'm still you know,

1057
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 6: I'm way between like the stuff that that we're all

1058
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 6: talking about and then the stuff that I see again

1059
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 6: in these little flashes of.

1060
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 5: Like what I'll be on a trip with and Kevin

1061
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 5: neither will be. I'll be like what are you doing?

1062
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:11,919
Speaker 6: He's like, well, I have a cold, so I can't

1063
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 6: do voiceover for my video, but I built a model

1064
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 6: of my own voice, so now all I have to

1065
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 6: do is type in something and script and the model

1066
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 6: in my voice reads into the audience.

1067
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 5: And I'm like, well that's useful. Cool, all right, Well.

1068
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 6: You don't bookmark that like generative fill stuff where it's

1069
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 6: like it's not like I'm typing into mid journey, Like

1070
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 6: make me a photo of a high turtle eating macaroni

1071
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 6: and cheese while watch It's like, no, I mean that

1072
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 6: is al yeah, but like when you wrote it a photo, right,

1073
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 6: and you have to fill in the stuff with with

1074
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 6: fake scenery just to make it look okay, so you

1075
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 6: can run a blog post.

1076
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 5: It's like, that's useful. So there's these little Yeah, there's.

1077
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 7: A lot of these smaller things that could be super

1078
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 7: super useful, but that's not what they want to focus

1079
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 7: on because that takes actual work. That takes there's more

1080
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 7: development than needs to happen.

1081
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 6: You're already big enough that you've bought whatever little company

1082
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:58,720
Speaker 6: came up with that, and you've built like you're Adobe.

1083
00:44:58,719 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 5: You build it in a.

1084
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 1: Photoshop, so then everybody hates you because you're Adobe.

1085
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 3: I think it's almost like they are really good at

1086
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 3: features but terrible at Products like these aren't useful because

1087
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 3: the actual user interface of phones is really good and

1088
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 3: also very bad. I will lose what I am doing

1089
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 3: on my phone sometimes I have five hundred and eighty

1090
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 3: seven Safari taps up. That doesn't surprise because the UX

1091
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 3: on there is so wonky and it's so like It's

1092
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 3: not like on a computer where you have like like

1093
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 3: a Actually that was just like close crum taps on

1094
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 3: my computer too. But I don't lose shit as much,

1095
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,439
Speaker 3: but I still do on the computer. Yeah, I don't

1096
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 3: miss meetings because I generally force myself to be on time,

1097
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 3: as I was not today. And it's the fact that

1098
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 3: I have to moderate so much of this stuff. Yet

1099
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 3: everyone's talking about AI. That really pisses me off. Why

1100
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 3: can the phone? If AI is the goddamn future, why

1101
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 3: are we so far from well.

1102
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 7: The other part of that is the security and privacy,

1103
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 7: like we just saw as we're recording this earlier today,

1104
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 7: Apple said, actually, a bunch of these features that we

1105
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 7: announced at WWDC, like Apple Intelligence, which is gonna make

1106
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 7: Siri like do a lot of the stuff we all

1107
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 7: want it to do. They're not coming to Europe because

1108
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,240
Speaker 7: the DMA and they're like, oh, you know, we're worried.

1109
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 7: It's gonna like do something about the privacy recall is

1110
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 7: another example that was the Windows feature where it was like,

1111
00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 7: what if we just to me.

1112
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: I was editing our post for it, and I was like,

1113
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 1: this rules.

1114
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 7: I didn't even think about security because I was like, oh,

1115
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 7: it's going to take a picture and I'm just gonna know.

1116
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 7: And I'm like I'd recently been trying to look for

1117
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 7: a text message from ten years ago.

1118
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 1: So it is feeling very like this is.

1119
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 7: Perfect for me specifically, and then everybody's like, this is

1120
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 7: the worst thing to ever happen in my life.

1121
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,479
Speaker 3: What's great about as well is they didn't actually solve

1122
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:50,800
Speaker 3: the real problem, which was search searching for things. Spotlight

1123
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 3: is actually really good, yeah, but it's not good enough. Nope,

1124
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 3: it could just be a little bit better. Searching for

1125
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,080
Speaker 3: stuff on your messages could be better. That would require

1126
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: them to make that better. They're like, now, why feature?

1127
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 3: What we did is what we just call it, like,

1128
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 3: just wrote it down, Well, just wrote down literally everything

1129
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 3: you've ever done I got in a.

1130
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: Plain text file, and then we'll just use AI to

1131
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: train on that and it'll be great. Yeah, and like, yeah,

1132
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: that is definitely a solution.

1133
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 5: It's reminding me of something.

1134
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 6: I switched to a text message provider like fifteen years ago,

1135
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 6: and I was intoxicated by the prospect of being able

1136
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 6: to search all of my text messages for all time,

1137
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 6: which I've done a few times, and over the of

1138
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 6: course of the past like two years, I've been like,

1139
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 6: I must delete that entire archive.

1140
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just a massive liability.

1141
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 3: I have all white emails, but my text Yeah, no,

1142
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 3: I keep all of them.

1143
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 5: Don't worry, guys and I will go down together.

1144
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I'm taking everybody.

1145
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 3: You're indicted all.

1146
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hopefully please don't indict me.

1147
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 3: Government, Please don't indict anyone who's own better off line. Yeah,

1148
00:47:52,239 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 3: thanks you request. So, returning from a commercial break that

1149
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 3: I'll announce next time. It's just I wonder if it's

1150
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 3: something to do with the venture capital climate, but not

1151
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 3: just that they don't want to invest in things that

1152
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 3: aren't going to grow huge, but also I think they're

1153
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 3: scared of hardware. They just the concept of hardware is expensive.

1154
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 3: It's expensive. But also, like you've been saying, there's not

1155
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 3: really a platform like there is if you own the

1156
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 3: hardware device, but you need to come up with some

1157
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 3: noxious way to charge them more.

1158
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 7: Yeah, everybody is obsessed with how do we get that

1159
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,359
Speaker 7: extra that extra money. Right with the exception of some

1160
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 7: hardware in this room currently, thank you very much that

1161
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 7: we just had an ad break, But for the most part,

1162
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 7: everybody is obsessed with us. When we saw those with

1163
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 7: video games, I think that's one of that was like

1164
00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:56,919
Speaker 7: one of the first ones we saw it with where

1165
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 7: they're like, what if we charge you just to play

1166
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 7: one with your friends even though it doesn't cost us

1167
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 7: anything to do that?

1168
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 1: Really well, I mean customer.

1169
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 3: I think it became with it became Jesus Christ began

1170
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 3: with the game. It was Moro wind Or obliving that

1171
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 3: they had the horse armor. That was the big moment.

1172
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 3: They charged two ninety nine for some armor for your horse.

1173
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: Did you get it?

1174
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 3: No, maybe the oldes scrolls online, but nevertheless, that was

1175
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 3: the moment when it But they were like and then we.

1176
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: Got the more micro transactions.

1177
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 7: They're like, oh, do you want to do a cool

1178
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 7: little like handwave and Destiny five dollars and I paid it,

1179
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 7: Unlike you, I paid the five dollars. I was like,

1180
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 7: take my money, Bungee.

1181
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 6: I'm sorry, since we're talking about old timey things. The

1182
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 6: first time I encountered this was with Napster, when Napster

1183
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 6: went legit.

1184
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 5: Do you remember that very brief moment.

1185
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 1: You were still with Napster when it went No, I MOVEDND.

1186
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:51,760
Speaker 5: To it now because you know, I'd done the linewired

1187
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 5: and because I ruined several computers. Yes, And then Napster

1188
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 5: comes out and it's like, hey, we're going legit. Just

1189
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 5: pay us this very affordable monthly fee and you get

1190
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 5: onlimited music. I'm my great.

1191
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:01,759
Speaker 6: And then I got to the part of the you know,

1192
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 6: front page. It's like, yeah, and if you ever stop

1193
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 6: paying us, you will lose access to all that music.

1194
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 5: I'm like, what, Yeah, it's two thousand and six and

1195
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 5: what is this?

1196
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: And now that's how Spotify works exactly.

1197
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 3: Yes, now you have a free account.

1198
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 7: So yeah, I don't pay for Spotify because I'm an influence.

1199
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I pay for Apple Music.

1200
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 7: I'm like, really, I get it through my phone bill

1201
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 7: for some reason.

1202
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 3: That's good.

1203
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great. So I'm like, I do I pay

1204
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: for it? But unclear?

1205
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 3: But it's just weird because it feels like there are

1206
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 3: very obvious problems that people have, Like phones are the

1207
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 3: whole stop using your phone thing is stupid. Okay in

1208
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 3: the top list that b I had a really good piece,

1209
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 3: or it's like I love my phone, I love being

1210
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,359
Speaker 3: on my phone. Yeah, the problem is there's too much

1211
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,960
Speaker 3: shit in it. And that doesn't mean Google, I need

1212
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 3: you to search for me. You're also not good in it.

1213
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 3: But it's the I feel like they are selling us

1214
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 3: back the idea of interfaces, except they're not even doing it.

1215
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 3: They're not actually automating anything. That's the thing with the

1216
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 3: AI That is the problem of aither than all the

1217
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 3: other ones, which is it's not doing anything for me.

1218
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 3: What is it doing when even the Apple Intelligence thing

1219
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 3: just did an episode on excited about the prospect of

1220
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 3: what they could do, but also they didn't actually say

1221
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 3: much Siri can do actions across multiplaps.

1222
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 1: And also it's not coming until well after.

1223
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 3: Launch, right is it Jesus Christ?

1224
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1225
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 7: Or some of the features they were really like they

1226
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,399
Speaker 7: weren't clear on which features are coming immediately, which or later.

1227
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:31,160
Speaker 3: Just this obfuscation and it's almost I mean, because that

1228
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 3: was WWTC Google Io.

1229
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 7: We just finished this big developer conference season. And while

1230
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 7: it was ostensibly for developers and ostensibly for the rest

1231
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 7: of us, and it should have been developers, because never

1232
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 7: has the relationship between these platforms and developers been more.

1233
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 7: Fraud stuff that's happening in Europe with the DMA has

1234
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 7: made it really, really difficult, And instead it was for

1235
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 7: investors m hm and saying here, we've got we've got

1236
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:54,879
Speaker 7: our AI thing too.

1237
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 1: We are in on the hype and you don't have

1238
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: to be like.

1239
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 7: We talked about I'm gonna do a little plug here.

1240
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 7: We talked about this on the Verge cast the Verges Sorry,

1241
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 7: what what where? Where I sometimes talk about stuff too,

1242
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,799
Speaker 7: And we talked about it over there, and it was

1243
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 7: really really clear that they just they'd done this for

1244
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 7: the investors and if they hadn't been doing AI this year,

1245
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 7: and it was really clear that that was kind of

1246
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 7: bolted on. Everybody would be talking about how stupid and

1247
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 7: dumb and delightful your phone looks because you can change

1248
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 7: the color on it now, right, like you can change

1249
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 7: the user in our face, and like there was these

1250
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 7: cool moments that happened and they just were like no, no, no,

1251
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,280
Speaker 7: forget that AI.

1252
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, go go on.

1253
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 5: No, no, man, that's it.

1254
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 6: I mean like, it's that And that has been the

1255
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 6: case since I got into this business. Right, It's like

1256
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 6: you go to a show and well, what's the theme

1257
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 6: this year? You know, and I think, well, saw the

1258
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 6: seeds of this soone in twenty seventeen when Google first spent.

1259
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 5: Like half of Google io talking about bots.

1260
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, what are you doing here?

1261
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 7: I think it was the same year that Facebook when

1262
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 7: they did f eight was it fate?

1263
00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 3: Oh?

1264
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 7: And they're like, we're going to revolutionized the world with

1265
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:03,839
Speaker 7: chat bots in Facebook?

1266
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: Where are those?

1267
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 3: Was the m assistant right with with Facebook?

1268
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 6: It was so but there's always there's always that big,

1269
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 6: you know, overarching theme, and it's again to your point, Yes,

1270
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 6: it is to you know, curry favor with with investors

1271
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 6: and make sure no, Google's not being left behind. We

1272
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 6: can't afford to be seen as being left behind. And

1273
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 6: then you know, you get the search query that the

1274
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 6: glue on pizza stuff, the go eat rocks thing, and

1275
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 6: of course they've got an egg on their face now

1276
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 6: because and I cannot, for the life of me understand

1277
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 6: why no one internally said hey stop, let's let's actually because.

1278
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 7: Google is one of the biggest companies in the world,

1279
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 7: and it is.

1280
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: A nightmare to work in.

1281
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 5: I've heard that.

1282
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1283
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 7: Tony Fiddell, who built like Nest and all of that stuff,

1284
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 7: he wrote a book that was all about how he

1285
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 7: he knows business and one of the really actually interesting

1286
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 7: parts in it is how his just relationship with Google

1287
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 7: collapsed after he was was acquired. They acquire a Nest

1288
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 7: and then like immediately, you know, his boss is like, actually,

1289
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 7: I'm not your boss anymore. This guy over here is

1290
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 7: your boss. You're doing this, And then that guy's like, oh,

1291
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 7: actually you're doing this. And it was just constantly changing

1292
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 7: because it's such a big amorphous, right thing. Yeah, And

1293
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 7: like a lot of these companies are that way. Google's

1294
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 7: probably the worst at it. Amazon's pretty bad at it.

1295
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 7: Apple is generally pretty good at it. Apple's whole thing

1296
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 7: is just like the culture of the place can sometimes

1297
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 7: get in the way. It's a cultish, yeah, and Google

1298
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 7: is also a cult. But it's like, what if we

1299
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 7: were like a big kind of disorganized.

1300
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 3: There also run By Show regular listeners and now McKenzie

1301
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 3: graduate sound off as shy. What confuses me is like

1302
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 3: Liz Reid has been there like decades search chief now

1303
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 3: but also her boss is probably a Ragavan who form

1304
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 3: ahead of ads who also used to run Yahoo. Please

1305
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 3: listen to the episode.

1306
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 5: Great episode.

1307
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 3: Arguably the weirdest thing I ever discovered off of them

1308
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 3: what I see in the mirror. Anyway, It's just it's

1309
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 3: frustrating as well, because you can they must have no shame,

1310
00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 3: They must legitimately just be like who gives this ship?

1311
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,960
Speaker 3: Like the only way you you are able to release

1312
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 3: products this bad is when you just to your point,

1313
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 3: it was for investors, but now the company is for investors. Yeah,

1314
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 3: because I think that that is the rootic on that's

1315
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 3: being crossed.

1316
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 7: That's why like someone like Panos Pinet who's now at

1317
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 7: Amazon or or Steve Jobs had these like was Panas

1318
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 7: pine used to ran the Surface department, ran all of

1319
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 7: the surface products at Microsoft for years.

1320
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 5: One of the gifted presenters at press events.

1321
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 7: I mean, he knows how to present things, and he

1322
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 7: really understands how to build these things, and and it

1323
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 7: like I think he made a real moment with the

1324
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 7: Surface because he cares about the products. And he's now

1325
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 7: at Amazon and they won't let me talk to him.

1326
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 1: And it's fine. I'm okay with it.

1327
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 7: But and that's because he's going and like, okay, we've

1328
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 7: got to fix Amazon's like product lineup, because.

1329
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 3: It's it's what if it was good?

1330
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:53,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, what if it was good?

1331
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 7: And and and you see that and but those are

1332
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 7: the rare guys, right, Like the reason these people are

1333
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 7: so beloved is because they do care. Jony I have

1334
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 7: terrible ideas a lot of times. Apparently it was like

1335
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 7: his idea to put the eyes in the vision pro.

1336
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 3: Oh really, yeah, I would be lies. Yeah, what if

1337
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:15,760
Speaker 3: what if the watch was a triangle? No?

1338
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: No, that's the rest of it.

1339
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 3: By the way, I want to see Jony I have

1340
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,400
Speaker 3: Apparently Sam Wrtman really badly wants to make a device

1341
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 3: with them. Yeah, honestly, give them as much money as

1342
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:27,759
Speaker 3: they want. I will see what I want. I want

1343
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,399
Speaker 3: to see the homomobile. Ask Gadget that these idiots passed.

1344
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:33,399
Speaker 1: Zero ports, zero display.

1345
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 3: Call it the hexagon.

1346
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 1: You just think at it.

1347
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 3: It's a new new type of Bluetooth device. You can

1348
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 3: connect your Bluetooth devices. I think, oh shit, it just

1349
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 3: looks gorgeous. I'm fine if things look good, but if

1350
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 3: they just completely useless.

1351
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, no, no, I mean and and but that was

1352
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 7: the thing is like he's kind of like a lesser

1353
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 7: example because he does have some bad ideas. He's so

1354
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 7: about the minimalism and weirdness that it goes to like

1355
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 7: somebody tell him no. But that's why Steve works, That's

1356
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 7: why or Steve Jobs works.

1357
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 1: I don't know Steve Jobs. He's dead. That's why Steve

1358
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 1: Jobs works.

1359
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,399
Speaker 7: That's why that's why panels work was because they they

1360
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 7: can actual they actually.

1361
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: Care about the products. They actually want to make something good.

1362
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 7: And most of the time now, like Tim Cook, I'm

1363
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 7: sure he cares about the product because he is the

1364
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 7: CEO and he has to make money and and and

1365
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 7: please his investors and stuff. But he is a supply

1366
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 7: chains guy.

1367
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 3: Right Like I also feel like apples laptops have been

1368
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 3: really good.

1369
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 7: Their phones they have gotten They've gotten really good because

1370
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 7: everybody was like slagging on the laptops being like their garbage.

1371
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 7: You haven't updated the MacBook Air, your most popular device

1372
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 7: in half a decade, do something, and they're like, oh,

1373
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 7: we we probably should and then but they only really

1374
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 7: did it when they actually had they could put their

1375
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 7: own process.

1376
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 6: Which is right, and silicons great that's the thing I

1377
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 6: think I'm my problem as I'm discovering in the middle

1378
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 6: of this conversation.

1379
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: I love this.

1380
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 6: That is good is that my problem is not with

1381
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 6: the devices because everyone who buys them, the millions of

1382
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 6: people who give Apple whatever it's three trillion dollar market

1383
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 6: cap or whatever it is right now, are very happy

1384
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 6: with them because they're very good products, and anytime they

1385
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 6: try something that I would like, Like, you know, for example,

1386
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 6: I thought the touch bar was kind of a fun idea. Yes, fun,

1387
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 6: but it creters and it's not supported in whatever you

1388
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 6: get this developer thing. But there are no options anymore

1389
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 6: for these types of products. Like your phone has to

1390
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 6: look like that.

1391
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 5: I'm pointing at Ed's iPhone fifty. Your phone has to

1392
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 5: look like that.

1393
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 6: And even if you go crazy and you make something

1394
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 6: that I really appreciate, like a foldable, which is one

1395
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 6: of the big reasons I still use Android phone because

1396
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 6: foldables change the way I use phones, and they're great,

1397
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 6: they still have to unfold into vaguely something that vaguely

1398
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 6: reminiscent of that rectangle and a laptop.

1399
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 5: Oh my god, we just saw qualcom.

1400
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 6: You know, processors introduced into like I don't know, seventeen

1401
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,640
Speaker 6: new laptops from a bunch of new new companies, and

1402
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 6: they all look like the existing Intel powered laptops that

1403
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 6: they've been shipping forever.

1404
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:57,400
Speaker 1: Because in most cases they just.

1405
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 7: Think, right, think, Microsoft and HP were like the only

1406
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,479
Speaker 7: companies that do something new, but.

1407
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 6: Even that's not new, like you can get asues. God

1408
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 6: bless them. They make these.

1409
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 5: Crazy, weird laptops with multiple screens.

1410
00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 6: You get these foldable screens, and honestly, those do they're

1411
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 6: not just they're not gimmicks, like they change the way

1412
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 6: you compute, and in some cases they are very very useful,

1413
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 6: but no one wanted to take a risk. No one

1414
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 6: wanted to take the affordance of all that space freed

1415
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 6: up by this arm based chip and like.

1416
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 5: The reduction of fan size and everything.

1417
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:32,479
Speaker 6: No, they're just everyone's just being very conservative because same

1418
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 6: reason that phone makers only make white and black phones

1419
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 6: in quantity, because that's all people buy. We make clicks

1420
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 6: in a very fetching yellow color and that's thirty percent

1421
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 6: of them or something like that, because those people want

1422
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 6: white or black, right, And I get it, but I

1423
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 6: don't like it.

1424
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 5: I would encourage people to remember that fun can be

1425
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 5: a reason to consider a piece of technology. When did

1426
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:58,960
Speaker 5: we decide that fun is not a priority in our

1427
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 5: in our like buying.

1428
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 7: When we decided selling more products matter more than selling

1429
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 7: cool products.

1430
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 3: And shareholder supremacy?

1431
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 1: Yeah likes.

1432
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 6: I agree with you both on the business side, but

1433
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 6: as consumers like when did when when did we just

1434
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 6: go like pick up a phones? Like I don't know,

1435
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 6: maybe I'm.

1436
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 3: Serious, it's but I think I think that is you.

1437
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 3: I don't say this in a bad way. You're right, Like,

1438
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 3: I understand what you feel that way. But it's their

1439
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 3: job to sell these things. It's their job to make

1440
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 3: these things us exactly. Like the two screen laptop is Lenovo,

1441
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 3: So these things are crazy. Like you've got the you've

1442
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 3: got the screen where your keyboard is, and then you

1443
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 3: have another screen. Make have a go at it, do

1444
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 3: a proper national campaign, make some weird choices for it,

1445
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:47,760
Speaker 3: because that's not a mass device. But guess what, there

1446
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 3: are cool things you can do with it. Many people

1447
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 3: use two screens. Do a big enterprise push, do a

1448
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 3: big business push. When I see the AI, I p

1449
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,280
Speaker 3: a ad that should be the double screen one's And

1450
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 3: what's weird is like Dell, for ex. That company was

1451
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:04,080
Speaker 3: dog shit for a long time and now they're pretty

1452
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 3: good because they weren't. Why if we make good good computers,

1453
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 3: here's our computers you see. Yeah they dogshit, Well if

1454
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 3: they were good nah. And it's just and I think

1455
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 3: it's this disconnection of the company from the product on

1456
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 3: both a business and just a culture level, like the

1457
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 3: people building things like it's so weird to me that

1458
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 3: Meta made the ray bands because all of the people

1459
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 3: who run Facebook now so it's Mark Zuckerberg, Javier Olivant Coo,

1460
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 3: you've got Boz the ultimate growth, all costs, ass whole

1461
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 3: every terrorist attacks are justifiable for growth. Literally he said that. Yeah,

1462
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 3: it's really grim thing. Alex Schultz form of growth guy,

1463
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 3: all these a growth people. I'm shocked that there's anyone

1464
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 3: building anything in Facebook other than the Torment nexus and

1465
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 3: it's plugins. Well, that's because.

1466
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 1: Mark said built.

1467
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,919
Speaker 7: You have to build me a hardware because nobody wants

1468
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 7: nobody like everybody hates us because we're terrible at software.

1469
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 7: You've got to go build me some cool hardware so

1470
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:02,880
Speaker 7: I can get as far away from the phones as far.

1471
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 3: So I'm well for know only because you said he

1472
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,360
Speaker 3: could build build me a hardware. But I could imagine

1473
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 3: Mark Zuckerberg, just like his cold dead eyes, looking to build.

1474
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 7: Me a hard I assume that is exactly just leaves.

1475
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, killed it for me, slams the door.

1476
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:18,479
Speaker 5: Honestly, I think if they brought back the HDC church

1477
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 5: it would do pretty well.

1478
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 3: Read church.

1479
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:21,200
Speaker 5: Right.

1480
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 6: That was a physical quirity keyboard android phone with a

1481
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:27,480
Speaker 6: Facebook button on it that would let you directly share.

1482
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 3: Tens of them.

1483
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 5: So absolutely it could be the new minimalist phone for

1484
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:32,959
Speaker 5: the Facebook friendly. It could be the boomer phone.

1485
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 7: Oh my god, that's the boomer phone.

1486
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:40,360
Speaker 3: The great call has one with just giant numbers still around, right,

1487
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 3: They're still around, owned by like a private equity phone,

1488
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 3: so not for long.

1489
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, that's that's a They'll be sold.

1490
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 3: To a barbecue company also buy a private equity.

1491
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 1: Marina will buy it next year. I don't worry about it.

1492
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 3: Great things. What's funny though, is that see yes with

1493
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 3: the grill stuff. So, as some of you may know,

1494
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 3: I make excellent barbecue at home, I do smokers. I

1495
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 3: admit I got in a little bit of trouble at

1496
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 3: ce Yes Lustmora is there because I went up to

1497
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 3: these people, I started asking them grilling questions, not like

1498
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 3: being an asoer. I was like, so, how does this

1499
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 3: help with the cooking? Yeah, they're like, well, you see

1500
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 3: you go on the app and you can see recipes.

1501
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 3: I'm sure, but the device pause, Uh, well, you can

1502
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 3: connect it and Wi Fi. I'm like, excellent, then what

1503
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 3: And that's because you can't really innovate that anymore other

1504
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 3: than the combustion thermometer, which is incredible. It's made by

1505
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 3: a guy made a video a few years ago called

1506
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 3: your oven is a Liar and it's got eight I'm

1507
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 3: not connected with this. It's just excellent. I have too,

1508
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 3: has eight sensors in it so it can find the

1509
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 3: coldest point in your food. What like all my hate

1510
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 3: the various caters use my detractors on and you're saying

1511
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 3: I don't like anything. The combustion thermoters excellent, is so good.

1512
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 3: I finally got my bee ribs down with it. But

1513
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 3: that's the thing that one's a great example of solving

1514
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 3: an actual problem that most people they use the thermometer,

1515
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 3: they don't know where to put it and they don't

1516
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 3: know if they're in the right place. And there I

1517
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 3: personally and deeply anxious person, so constant anxiety, which is

1518
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:08,440
Speaker 3: great for a twelve hour cook. With this, it works

1519
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 3: and it works really well, and there's not a bunch

1520
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 3: of other bullshit. It costs like one hundred and sixty

1521
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 3: nine bucks, so it's not cheap, but it solves a problem. Now,

1522
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 3: It's like you think with all of this money in

1523
01:04:18,760 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 3: AI or AR or all these things, they solve a problem.

1524
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:25,440
Speaker 3: We've had very similar problems for like ten years.

1525
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:28,720
Speaker 7: I think part of it is a lot of these

1526
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 7: people do not they think they're solving a problem, right right, Like,

1527
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:35,360
Speaker 7: I think everybody in this room is probably a good

1528
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,920
Speaker 7: We're good writers, right like, well that's part that's part

1529
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 7: of how.

1530
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 1: We make our living. Like when you're doing a video, yeah,

1531
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: you write the script like, we're good writers, right Like,

1532
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:47,440
Speaker 1: this is a skill we have and we can do.

1533
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 7: If somebody sends us a horrible text message, we will

1534
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 7: grown because we don't want to answer it emotionally, but

1535
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 7: we'll still respond, like and we'll respond the hell out

1536
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,360
Speaker 7: of it. It will be well written, right, well written. But

1537
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 7: these people don't value that because they think that's just

1538
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 7: that's a thing they can surmount with AI, right, like

1539
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 7: that's that is the thing for him. And I run

1540
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:10,240
Speaker 7: into this like I was talking to a woman the

1541
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 7: other day who gave me the first legitimately good use

1542
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 7: for large language models.

1543
01:05:15,760 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: She had a really bad blind date and the guy sent.

1544
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:22,439
Speaker 7: Her like a long, long email and she's like, read

1545
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 7: this email for me because I'm not going to read

1546
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 7: it because I don't want to go on another date

1547
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:30,040
Speaker 7: with a guy. Then respond to it like politely saying saying, no,

1548
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:31,920
Speaker 7: I don't want to see you again. And I was like,

1549
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 7: you figured it out that because like if you did

1550
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:37,400
Speaker 7: that to me at work, I would be furious.

1551
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:40,480
Speaker 1: Blind date, Yes, go, that's.

1552
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 6: No that that you're right and that is the more

1553
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 6: specifically than the only good example for it, Like it's

1554
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 6: the only good version of that demo that every company

1555
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 6: insists on thinking. It was just like, who's send a

1556
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 6: text to my wife and tell her that I'm going

1557
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 6: to be late for dinner.

1558
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:59,240
Speaker 5: Now make me sound more sad about it. No, apologize, just.

1559
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:02,560
Speaker 3: Text your wife. Just start why you start it? It's

1560
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 3: like more effort to do. It's ridiculous, And how do

1561
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 3: you even know what good is? You can't write right? Yeah, exactly.

1562
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 3: And I must also say, just as a note, there

1563
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:15,440
Speaker 3: are people out there who have like cognitive disorders and

1564
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 3: learning learning disability called dyspraxia for example. It's physical, but

1565
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 3: there are people with dyslexia. Those are not When I

1566
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 3: say you should be able to write email, just to

1567
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:26,840
Speaker 3: be really clear, not the people. I mean, you have

1568
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 3: an individualized problem. And I also must be clear, none

1569
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 3: of the AI companies give a rap fuck about you.

1570
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 3: They do not care that it's not you are not

1571
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 3: the person they are selling accessibility. They are selling to

1572
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 3: someone who does not exist that they made up right, Yeah,

1573
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 3: that is who it is. Because the rewrite stuff is crazy.

1574
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 3: And then the oh, I have these five ingredients in

1575
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:47,920
Speaker 3: my kitchen.

1576
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:52,320
Speaker 7: That's my favorite one something ever happened to someone you

1577
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 7: just only have.

1578
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:55,880
Speaker 3: I mean, you can't work out what you like unless

1579
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 3: you've got I've got an onion, one piece of ham

1580
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 3: three nine of a human GPT. Like what is the

1581
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 3: situation where you can't look at it and go all right, fine,

1582
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 3: like I'll make a sandwich.

1583
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 1: Like because you're you're.

1584
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:15,120
Speaker 7: You're imagining what they imagine when they're doing this is themselves.

1585
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,320
Speaker 7: They're just like looking in the mirror and they're being like, Okay,

1586
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 7: I put on my little pad in your vest. I

1587
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 7: put on my little Bluetooth head set. I haven't looked

1588
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 7: at my spouse in three weeks. I'm gonna have my

1589
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 7: assistant text them. Oh ship, my assistant got laid off. Okay,

1590
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 7: I really wish I had an AI assistant who could

1591
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:37,560
Speaker 7: text them so that they don't leave me, because they probably.

1592
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 3: Divorce would be quite messy, it would.

1593
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:41,840
Speaker 1: Be expensive, they will take all of my stock, but

1594
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 1: I don't care. So yeah, and like that, I mean,

1595
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:47,200
Speaker 1: that is a gross, gross exaggeration.

1596
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 7: There many of you lovely human Yeah, there are plenty

1597
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 7: people who have lovely relationships there, but that is like

1598
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 7: the thing there. They are they are very cynically going

1599
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:00,080
Speaker 7: after this one group who to your.

1600
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 1: Earlier they're not talking to real people.

1601
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 7: They're not going out to like fucking middle of nowhere

1602
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 7: rule Nebraska and being like what do you think of this?

1603
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 7: Because they'll be like can it connect to the internet? Yeah,

1604
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 7: it needs the internet to do everything. Cool, I can't

1605
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 7: use it at all because I don't have internet.

1606
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:18,560
Speaker 6: I wonder and I have a real question here, and

1607
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 6: like is it that so many problems have already been solved,

1608
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 6: that it's harder to find new ones like or that

1609
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 6: the new ones we find are too niche.

1610
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:29,519
Speaker 5: And too narrow and too low because you can't dedicate

1611
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 5: Google's resources to solving like a.

1612
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 7: Fixable problem is I would love to just say, fix

1613
01:08:36,280 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 7: my schedule for the week.

1614
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean same, right, Like that should be easy.

1615
01:08:40,280 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 3: Motion has been lying about this. I'm calling you out, Motion,

1616
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 3: you ossholes, all right, you motherfuckers. I see you on

1617
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:50,920
Speaker 3: Instagram every goddamn day. I've supertaged my adhday with Motion.

1618
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:52,960
Speaker 3: Fuck you, it's not how it works. You're a bunch

1619
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 3: of scumback. I'm so sorry. That's a little much. But you,

1620
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 3: like I loaded your goddamn product. It's like, I'll rearrange

1621
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 3: your schedule. I'm like, oh, it like tries to like

1622
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 3: suggest they do something once like that does not work?

1623
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 3: What the fuck you? And I just don't trust anymore

1624
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:08,880
Speaker 3: and it doesn't do it. And I cannot find any

1625
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,639
Speaker 3: real uses. I'm sure they exist, but that's the thing.

1626
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:14,479
Speaker 3: It's that is a problem to be solved. But I

1627
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 3: also think you're right in the there are no big problems, right,

1628
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:21,680
Speaker 3: I feel like no more lands the Conka.

1629
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 6: Tens of thousands of little problems and little niche like issues,

1630
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 6: and certainly stuff that I run into every day that

1631
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 6: shouldn't be a problem now that Google Home is what

1632
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 6: you know, over a decade old, and those things.

1633
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 5: Are just absolutely trash. But like, those are little things.

1634
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 6: There's one light in my room doesn't go off with

1635
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,720
Speaker 6: the rest of it goes like no one's gonna those

1636
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 6: are troubleshooting bug fixes. Like we we're not doing this

1637
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:44,400
Speaker 6: whole maps thing again.

1638
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:44,680
Speaker 5: We're not.

1639
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 6: We're not saying like, hey, you know how it's hard

1640
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 6: to get around the city, or you know how you

1641
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 6: got to print out map quest directions, like no, we

1642
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:51,639
Speaker 6: drove down every road on.

1643
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:53,200
Speaker 5: The planet and now you have Google Maps.

1644
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:53,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1645
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:56,880
Speaker 6: Like I feel like those big ambitious problems just don't

1646
01:09:57,680 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 6: don't obviously present themselves.

1647
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:01,800
Speaker 3: We do need to go back to this idea that

1648
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 3: there are no more lands to conquer. It's the thing

1649
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 3: I've talked about before, that there are no more big problems.

1650
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:09,760
Speaker 3: And I think we're finally maybe this is the first

1651
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 3: time in history we're really being made to reckon with

1652
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 3: the fact of how these companies make money because it

1653
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 3: consumers are perhaps dealing with a death by a thousand

1654
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:22,759
Speaker 3: cuts right now. It's the ten ten million little problems

1655
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 3: we face, which are usually a response, sorry, a result

1656
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 3: of technical debt. It's just things built on top of things.

1657
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:32,720
Speaker 3: People I've talked to inside Google have said this, that

1658
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 3: they just build shit on top of other shit. Google

1659
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 3: Home one of the most evil apps of all time,

1660
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:42,040
Speaker 3: invented by the devil to separate you from your thermostaff

1661
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:44,519
Speaker 3: But that is a result of them being like, Okay,

1662
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 3: we've bought Nest Tony Fodell, Yeah, genius, genius guy. They've

1663
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:50,960
Speaker 3: got these amazing They've revolutionized the smart I'm not sure

1664
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:53,600
Speaker 3: if any of you remember when the Nest came in.

1665
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:55,799
Speaker 3: That was a huge deal. You had this shitty honeywell

1666
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 3: thing and Nest actually worked and it work. It did

1667
01:10:57,560 --> 01:10:59,600
Speaker 3: exactly what you want to look. It looked cool, but

1668
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 3: it also they're very satisfying and guess what, it worked.

1669
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 3: It actually worked, and they went, wow, So we just

1670
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:08,599
Speaker 3: bought Nest and they've got these cameras and they've got

1671
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,680
Speaker 3: these thermostats and they work really well and the software

1672
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 3: pretty reliable. People like that, but we also have another

1673
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:21,280
Speaker 3: app that people hate. What if we added the thing

1674
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:24,800
Speaker 3: people liked to the thing people hate, then they will

1675
01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 3: love it instead. I don't know what happened, what actually

1676
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 3: happens to thing I'm just describing, which is someone from

1677
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 3: Google absorbed Nest and then said, you are run by Steve.

1678
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:38,400
Speaker 3: Now don't know if it's or her name was Steve,

1679
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:40,960
Speaker 3: but you are run by this department, and we'll build

1680
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:42,800
Speaker 3: on top of it. We'll connect all the bits of

1681
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:45,559
Speaker 3: Nest into this app because we must have everything in

1682
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:49,680
Speaker 3: one place. When you're not really solving problems other than

1683
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:54,680
Speaker 3: company apps and making a feature work rather than a

1684
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 3: suite of things work. This is the result. And I

1685
01:11:57,439 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 3: think we're finally reaching a point where just there's not

1686
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,679
Speaker 3: enough exciting stuff to hide from the fact that most

1687
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:06,960
Speaker 3: computing experiences are cluttered and bad. Well that's many, many

1688
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:07,720
Speaker 3: times of the day.

1689
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:08,679
Speaker 1: That's for the fixes.

1690
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:11,200
Speaker 7: Right, Like Google, I think we can all agree, is

1691
01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 7: not doing great as far as like search goes. Right,

1692
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:16,439
Speaker 7: Like you go and you search something on Google, it

1693
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:17,599
Speaker 7: is so much worse.

1694
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:19,760
Speaker 1: Now I'm using Coggy, the paid one.

1695
01:12:20,160 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 5: At the moment, it's.

1696
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:24,760
Speaker 1: Like it's interesting.

1697
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:29,800
Speaker 7: I'm still trying it out, but it doesn't feel measurably worse.

1698
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 1: Which is not great for Google.

1699
01:12:32,240 --> 01:12:35,160
Speaker 7: H And then that is something that could be solved

1700
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 7: and that would be a huge boot, right, Like, like,

1701
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 7: it is hard to find things, and these companies have

1702
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:42,000
Speaker 7: all decided that they were going to solve it by

1703
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 7: just taking all of the content and then maybe or

1704
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 7: maybe not accurately con.

1705
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:52,240
Speaker 3: Google I was like, and then you will be able

1706
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 3: to use such to find your UPS tracking number and

1707
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:57,439
Speaker 3: it will tell it when you're going to tell you,

1708
01:12:57,479 --> 01:12:58,840
Speaker 3: and then when you're trying to do a return, it

1709
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:03,799
Speaker 3: will actually generate that could happen. Yeah, you know when.

1710
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:06,320
Speaker 1: Then it just moved away, Yeah, don't worry.

1711
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 3: That was actual.

1712
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot. There are these useful things.

1713
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,479
Speaker 7: They're nowhere close to ready, and then they go and

1714
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:17,240
Speaker 7: they promise them way too early, and then like AI

1715
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 7: is getting poisoned. There's so much really interesting things that

1716
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 7: can happen space for a while, and there has.

1717
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:23,360
Speaker 1: Been for a very long time.

1718
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 7: And instead they're like, what if we just make a

1719
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:28,720
Speaker 7: bunch of money by pushing lying bots out into the

1720
01:13:28,720 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 7: world and that won't backfire in any way, shape or form.

1721
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 7: And it's like, no, it's already backfiring, and it's just

1722
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:36,519
Speaker 7: gonna get worse. Like Google, you shot yourself in the foot,

1723
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 7: Microsoft with being you shot yourself in the foot because

1724
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:42,840
Speaker 7: you're like, what if we release these lying machines at

1725
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 7: the same time we have our garbage search engines that

1726
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:49,280
Speaker 7: can't see the lies and it'll be fine. No, you've

1727
01:13:49,320 --> 01:13:52,040
Speaker 7: just made the web like almost impossible to navigate.

1728
01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 3: And that one is very much like it was a

1729
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:56,360
Speaker 3: way to sell cloud computer space. It was a way

1730
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:59,240
Speaker 3: to promise, Yeah, the eternal growth machine could keep growing.

1731
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:03,080
Speaker 3: But also like Search, I've done the episode. It' that's

1732
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:06,639
Speaker 3: a whole thing. It just feels like they're not building

1733
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:09,839
Speaker 3: things for people like it. Really like if I worked

1734
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 3: on Google Search and I saw them launch that, I

1735
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 3: probably wouldn't quit if I had a mortgage, but I

1736
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 3: would take my LinkedIn offline. Yeah, I wouldn't want to

1737
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:20,200
Speaker 3: be associated with it.

1738
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:24,400
Speaker 1: It you like, yeah, de face the line, vacations.

1739
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would, yeah, vacation. But it's just someone like

1740
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 3: in a in a sane society, suned up as Shy

1741
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:37,080
Speaker 3: would have been fired, yeah, immediately, immediate. Liz sent off,

1742
01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 3: brabagar Ragavan would have been sent off. These people would

1743
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 3: have been fired not just for but they've already not

1744
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 3: been fired for making search bad, but for publicly breaking

1745
01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:49,680
Speaker 3: the probably the biggest contribution tech has made ever, like

1746
01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:51,200
Speaker 3: at least in software.

1747
01:14:51,479 --> 01:14:53,479
Speaker 1: And instead it's like a little hiccup and they're like,

1748
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:56,080
Speaker 1: don't worry. AI is going to fix this out.

1749
01:14:57,280 --> 01:14:58,959
Speaker 3: Just AI is going to fix the AI.

1750
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 1: Pro Well, you know that's the other part of it.

1751
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 7: They're like, well, AI will fix it because AI just

1752
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:05,280
Speaker 7: needs to learn more stuff and if it learns more

1753
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:07,479
Speaker 7: stuff will do that. Okay, but didn't you just there

1754
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 7: was just I think The Atlantic wrote a really great

1755
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:12,840
Speaker 7: story about how they run out of stuff to see

1756
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 7: AI on and so they're like, what if we just

1757
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:19,200
Speaker 7: make more machines that make a content from AI synthetic

1758
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 7: content data.

1759
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 3: So if you go back to the PKI episode, this

1760
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:24,439
Speaker 3: is a big problem the synthetic data. And by the way,

1761
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:26,200
Speaker 3: did you know that that will break them?

1762
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna be great.

1763
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:31,720
Speaker 3: Habsburg GAI as well. Jathan Sadowski calls it one of

1764
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:34,360
Speaker 3: the funniest terms ever. But it's so funny as well

1765
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 3: because there are so many times, there's so many things

1766
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 3: to fix, and just using the phone is kind of

1767
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 3: a ball like it. It's like you have this clickie

1768
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:48,840
Speaker 3: keyboard company. Yeah, I'm surprised that that didn't come out

1769
01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 3: like one of the weird like not quite works for Apple,

1770
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:53,639
Speaker 3: but seems to get all their revenue through the Apple Store.

1771
01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 3: Companies like these, these ones that have just kind of

1772
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:57,680
Speaker 3: bubbled up and hung around in a good way, like

1773
01:15:57,720 --> 01:15:59,839
Speaker 3: it's just solving a very specific need.

1774
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 5: Right right, for a very but then like specific, there

1775
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:04,519
Speaker 5: are plenty.

1776
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:06,599
Speaker 3: People who don't like clickie who want a clickie keyboard,

1777
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 3: people who like keyboards, like that's a thing that you

1778
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:11,280
Speaker 3: can connect to a person who does not about.

1779
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,680
Speaker 7: Kim Kardashian bowl one, right, that is famously a thing

1780
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:16,240
Speaker 7: she loves.

1781
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 5: One of the first things I learned about being on

1782
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 5: the side of the business. And I'm not allowed to

1783
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 5: talk about the customers, not giving me the permission, but yeah, no, I.

1784
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 3: Hear Henry clutching his clicks as he his last words,

1785
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 3: well I like the device, No, I it's it sucks

1786
01:16:38,240 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 3: as well, And getting back to something of saying earlier

1787
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:43,080
Speaker 3: as well, I want to be excited about this stuff

1788
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:45,599
Speaker 3: I loves.

1789
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 1: Is there anything you're excited about?

1790
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 3: Right?

1791
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a good like.

1792
01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:51,519
Speaker 3: The steam Deck. The next I genuinely believe, and I

1793
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 3: know the old was the second one. No, that's not

1794
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:57,760
Speaker 3: what I'm talking about. Whenever they do the next steam Deck,

1795
01:16:58,160 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 3: I'm so excited for that.

1796
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:00,679
Speaker 1: It's going to be cool.

1797
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:02,800
Speaker 3: I love the steam Deck. I think it's one of

1798
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:06,080
Speaker 3: the coolest things I've ever used. It is like a

1799
01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:10,080
Speaker 3: really great PC gaming console. PC gaming consoles, they've tried

1800
01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:12,559
Speaker 3: them a few times, never quite work, but this works.

1801
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:13,960
Speaker 3: It's a bit too big.

1802
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 5: Play isn't great, but yeah, don't worry about it.

1803
01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 7: It's cool and it's it's customizable in a way that

1804
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:24,800
Speaker 7: you don't generally get with products nowadays, and it's just

1805
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:28,200
Speaker 7: it's fun to use. Like that's that's what I got. Like,

1806
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 7: I got into the I n EO. I got into

1807
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 7: these weird like Steam Deck replacements because there's a place

1808
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:34,719
Speaker 7: where I'm like, oh, something's happening.

1809
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1810
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:37,280
Speaker 6: Game is kind of immune from this, from this thing,

1811
01:17:37,320 --> 01:17:39,719
Speaker 6: because like you can go back to a Nintendo sweach.

1812
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 6: I mean, I still love my switch and Razor kicks

1813
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 6: out a new gaming accessory every ces. You got this

1814
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:48,160
Speaker 6: crazy ridiculous webcam that like most people don't need, but

1815
01:17:48,200 --> 01:17:49,599
Speaker 6: streamers love and yeah.

1816
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:52,120
Speaker 5: Rgbnable lights and stuff like. There are a lot of

1817
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:53,800
Speaker 5: gadgets to be had in the gaming world. I feel

1818
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:54,760
Speaker 5: like if I were.

1819
01:17:55,200 --> 01:18:00,120
Speaker 3: Beginning with a I'm completely blanking. They do the lights well.

1820
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:07,639
Speaker 3: Gatto they make really good Danield producer there, it's Gato.

1821
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:08,759
Speaker 3: They make great ship.

1822
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:10,600
Speaker 6: As well, and production gear and camera and NERD's like,

1823
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:13,880
Speaker 6: there are still gadgets out there for specific niches.

1824
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:14,680
Speaker 1: But it's definitely niche.

1825
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, they're also little professions, but they're like it's specialized gear.

1826
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:19,240
Speaker 6: It's not really a gadget.

1827
01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 5: There is just yeah, it's the best plan I got.

1828
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:22,080
Speaker 5: This weird thing.

1829
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 3: There is something exciting happening where the normalization of photography

1830
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:28,920
Speaker 3: written large is pretty magnificent. The photos I can take

1831
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:32,320
Speaker 3: on my iPhone with portrait mode are not my DSLRT.

1832
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 3: I've got an Alpha three, I got a Canon five DS.

1833
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 3: I've done a lot photography, got some nice glass too,

1834
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:39,080
Speaker 3: And yeah, when I take them out and I get

1835
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:41,760
Speaker 3: the right lightning lighting and I've I've made sure I

1836
01:18:41,880 --> 01:18:42,880
Speaker 3: do the settings.

1837
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 1: Right, you feel like you've earned.

1838
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:47,000
Speaker 3: And I nailed it, and I nailed it. Sure, it's

1839
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:50,320
Speaker 3: great nine eight percent. The other time, though, my phone's

1840
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:51,760
Speaker 3: in my pocket and I can get a really good

1841
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 3: photo and it's easy. I can upload it somewhere. It's

1842
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 3: easy to share with a friend. I could do a

1843
01:18:55,479 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 3: little editing. I can make a podcast at home in

1844
01:18:57,920 --> 01:18:59,960
Speaker 3: my pajamas in Las Vegas. I can have it edit.

1845
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 3: Did there are actual things that happen that are so

1846
01:19:03,560 --> 01:19:08,080
Speaker 3: good in tech And they see these things and they're like, shit,

1847
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:12,200
Speaker 3: all right, what problems the humans happen? Like I don't know,

1848
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:14,599
Speaker 3: And they go to their assistant and like, what problems

1849
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:16,400
Speaker 3: do you have? And they start talking like yeah, sure,

1850
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:20,080
Speaker 3: And it's just it's frustrating because if the tech industry

1851
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:22,200
Speaker 3: would realize this was happening, they actually have a lot

1852
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:25,880
Speaker 3: of good stuff to do, the normalization of whatever professional

1853
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:28,240
Speaker 3: things are. You can record a podcast that sounds really

1854
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:29,960
Speaker 3: good from home now in a way that you couldn't

1855
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:30,559
Speaker 3: four years ago.

1856
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:34,320
Speaker 5: Absolutely. Yeah. Also, I think like some of this is

1857
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:36,720
Speaker 5: just it is. I don't know if you want to

1858
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:39,880
Speaker 5: call it, like I've victimless. Crime is not the word.

1859
01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:42,840
Speaker 6: It's like, this was, this was, this was inevitable right

1860
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 6: when stuff got this good, and when when you got

1861
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 6: able to do those things that you just talked about

1862
01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:49,080
Speaker 6: on your phone, right, you have a production studio in

1863
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:53,400
Speaker 6: your pocket, Like we had to get here. There was

1864
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:56,320
Speaker 6: there's no longer any reason for Motorola to make a

1865
01:19:56,360 --> 01:19:58,320
Speaker 6: phone that with double action hinges.

1866
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:00,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, we figured it out.

1867
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:02,400
Speaker 7: And the same thing happened in Hollywood, right, Like they

1868
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:04,799
Speaker 7: were like, oh, superhero movies make money.

1869
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:06,960
Speaker 1: What if we only Didero?

1870
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 7: And that was really cool for me, a superhero nerd

1871
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:11,559
Speaker 7: for two days, and then I was.

1872
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:17,400
Speaker 3: Like, that's a really good example because they saw that

1873
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:21,240
Speaker 3: superheroes did well. What they didn't realize was the movies

1874
01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:23,439
Speaker 3: were good and the actors were good in the roles.

1875
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:26,280
Speaker 3: Iron Man didn't do well because people love the concept

1876
01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:28,280
Speaker 3: of Tony Stark. It's because Robert Downey Junior.

1877
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:29,960
Speaker 1: Nobody I fucking knew who Tony Stark was.

1878
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:34,160
Speaker 3: Whatever it came out, I don't know. Guardians the Galaxy

1879
01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:36,519
Speaker 3: was good, not because of Guardians of the Galaxy but

1880
01:20:36,560 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 3: because the actors are very good at So that's excellent.

1881
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:42,000
Speaker 3: Scimora like, yeah, I forget who plays Pete Quill, but

1882
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:44,479
Speaker 3: the guy from the Office, there's gonna be someone who's

1883
01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 3: so pissed.

1884
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 1: That wasn't incredible. The guy from the Office.

1885
01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:49,920
Speaker 3: I'm like a huge Guardians the Galaxy foud have a

1886
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:52,519
Speaker 3: bunch of comic artwork from it. But they saw that,

1887
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:55,519
Speaker 3: and that's why, yes, there you go. I have the

1888
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 3: guy from that show with person Trace Williams. Yeah, treat Williams. Sorry.

1889
01:21:01,479 --> 01:21:05,479
Speaker 3: So the thing is they see that, and then they

1890
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:07,840
Speaker 3: spill out all these ship ones. They're like, what what

1891
01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 3: don't you like about it? They're all three hours long,

1892
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 3: that's more superhero You fucking ingrades.

1893
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:16,960
Speaker 1: And just take your slop. You don't want your slot.

1894
01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:18,599
Speaker 3: Take your slop. And I guess that maybe we are

1895
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:19,680
Speaker 3: in tech slop era.

1896
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:21,200
Speaker 1: We are in tech slop era.

1897
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:23,400
Speaker 3: Oh no, we're actually in tech slop era. That's the

1898
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:24,800
Speaker 3: title of this episode.

1899
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:33,160
Speaker 7: But it is, we're in this moment where it's like

1900
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 7: we are. They are more focused on their bottom line.

1901
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:38,960
Speaker 7: They're more focused on pleasing people who don't care about

1902
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:41,800
Speaker 7: the technology than actually making good technology. And there's there's

1903
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 7: a lot of good examples where that's not the case.

1904
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:46,120
Speaker 7: We've talked about a lot of those here, but a

1905
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:48,800
Speaker 7: lot of it is just garbage. And so for me,

1906
01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:51,000
Speaker 7: that's why I go and I mess with these steam

1907
01:21:51,080 --> 01:21:54,040
Speaker 7: Deck competitors and eat ink devices, because that's the areas

1908
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:56,720
Speaker 7: where it feels like, yeah, there is the slop, like

1909
01:21:57,160 --> 01:21:59,599
Speaker 7: right now, and tell Panos do something about the Kindle

1910
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:01,240
Speaker 7: garbage device.

1911
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:04,040
Speaker 1: I do not want one in my house. Sorry to

1912
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:08,360
Speaker 1: everyone at Amazon. Fix it. But these other Onyx books is.

1913
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:10,720
Speaker 7: Making like really really cool interesting stuff here. It's not

1914
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:14,560
Speaker 7: great yet, but they're trying. And every time, like I

1915
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:17,120
Speaker 7: write a review, then the next thing comes out and

1916
01:22:17,160 --> 01:22:19,960
Speaker 7: it changes little and I'm like Okay, then I feel

1917
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:22,200
Speaker 7: very powerful, and then I just want to like write

1918
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 7: a hole like here's what I want actually from it,

1919
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:26,560
Speaker 7: and then I'm worried that I'm got too close, I

1920
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:27,280
Speaker 7: got too into it.

1921
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 3: It's funny though, that you were afraid to write that,

1922
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:33,479
Speaker 3: right just be like fix it, yeah, because like you're

1923
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:36,240
Speaker 3: afraid the company would be mad when the company should like.

1924
01:22:36,720 --> 01:22:38,120
Speaker 1: Yeah no, then I'm no.

1925
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:40,519
Speaker 7: I'm more afraid that, like I'm doing labor and not

1926
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:42,320
Speaker 7: getting paid for it. I mean, I'm getting paid for it,

1927
01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 7: but like righte.

1928
01:22:43,080 --> 01:22:46,400
Speaker 5: The unpaid consulting check is not yeah it.

1929
01:22:46,400 --> 01:22:47,640
Speaker 1: Where's my consulting check now?

1930
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:49,559
Speaker 6: But I wonder about the Actually That's what I've been

1931
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:51,599
Speaker 6: thinking about kind of weirdly for the past few minutes.

1932
01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:54,280
Speaker 6: It's just like, there is still obviously really good reporting

1933
01:22:54,280 --> 01:22:56,800
Speaker 6: out there, there are still really good gadget reviews out there,

1934
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:00,360
Speaker 6: there's still people calling companies to account for all the

1935
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:02,600
Speaker 6: stuff we've been talking about for two hours. But I

1936
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:08,479
Speaker 6: do wonder how much disruption is actually being introduced by

1937
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:12,960
Speaker 6: this kind of like rise of influencer marketing that kind

1938
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:14,439
Speaker 6: of like just clouds of the whole thing, and nobody

1939
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:15,240
Speaker 6: can tell the difference.

1940
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:15,800
Speaker 5: I found.

1941
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 6: I started to find fifteen years or twelve years ago

1942
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:23,280
Speaker 6: that people could not tell the difference between sponsored content.

1943
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:27,480
Speaker 3: And even when you lead in quite aggressively.

1944
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:30,439
Speaker 6: Yeah, because well, oh, I'm like I tweet and someone

1945
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,040
Speaker 6: replies asking a question that I've answered.

1946
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:33,920
Speaker 5: In the original tweet.

1947
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:36,200
Speaker 6: You know, because nobody pays attention. It's it's it's it's

1948
01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:38,680
Speaker 6: it's an attention span problem that I don't I don't know.

1949
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:41,839
Speaker 6: We could spend another two hours talking about the changes

1950
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:44,400
Speaker 6: that would need to happen in the media world to

1951
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 6: actually kind of make it close to good, but I

1952
01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:50,200
Speaker 6: don't know that it would make a difference. Yeah, it's

1953
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:53,760
Speaker 6: based on people's willingness to actually listen or ability to listen.

1954
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's wild how many times we'll put a review

1955
01:23:56,160 --> 01:23:58,719
Speaker 7: up and you know, the Vergeon, we do not accept units.

1956
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:01,720
Speaker 7: We send them back after we review them. We've got

1957
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:04,439
Speaker 7: very strict policy. Used to we wouldn't even eat food.

1958
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:08,680
Speaker 5: One of the strictest, and I love it.

1959
01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:12,600
Speaker 7: And nowadays, like we get people being like, oh, you

1960
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:17,599
Speaker 7: just spawn con for Apple and I'm like, rude. I'm

1961
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,160
Speaker 7: mainly just offended more than annoyed, because I'm just like,

1962
01:24:20,520 --> 01:24:23,240
Speaker 7: but it's it's the same thing. There's this assumption that

1963
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:25,639
Speaker 7: everyone has paid to play. And you see that even

1964
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 7: with PR. You get a lot of these younger PR

1965
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:29,200
Speaker 7: people being like, hey, how much can we pay you

1966
01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:30,719
Speaker 7: to get our product on your site.

1967
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:32,599
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, nothing, absolutely yeah.

1968
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:38,479
Speaker 1: And it's it's shockingly common.

1969
01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:41,280
Speaker 6: Mark has running, you know, a really great review on

1970
01:24:41,320 --> 01:24:43,439
Speaker 6: i'm k b HD and then we have two weeks

1971
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 6: of discourse because somebody on Twitter with a large audience said,

1972
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:49,760
Speaker 6: you know, I just don't think it's right that can

1973
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:52,040
Speaker 6: kill a can kill a company, you know with this

1974
01:24:52,479 --> 01:24:55,080
Speaker 6: with this thoughtless headline. I'm like, no, that's a review

1975
01:24:55,160 --> 01:24:59,400
Speaker 6: of a product that didn't That's how this works.

1976
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:03,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that there is a problem. Yeah, within

1977
01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:06,240
Speaker 3: the media that there is a fear that if you

1978
01:25:06,320 --> 01:25:09,080
Speaker 3: step outside of the lines in gaming for good reason.

1979
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:12,400
Speaker 3: I was in there before all of that horror show happened,

1980
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:14,679
Speaker 3: and now it's those people you will actually get fucked,

1981
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 3: especially so much worse for a woman. But in gadgets

1982
01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:21,840
Speaker 3: there's a fear of losing access. But I also think

1983
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:24,599
Speaker 3: no one wants to say anything that's particularly different because

1984
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:27,280
Speaker 3: I don't know what if they're wrong, And the answer

1985
01:25:27,439 --> 01:25:31,400
Speaker 3: is you've been wrong plenty of fucking times. Why stop now? Like,

1986
01:25:32,479 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 3: no one wants to make the step and say this sucks.

1987
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:37,760
Speaker 3: I mentioned Dave three D earlier, great YouTube Dave two

1988
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:39,000
Speaker 3: D pardon.

1989
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:42,400
Speaker 5: Three D is yeah, ten years from.

1990
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:45,720
Speaker 3: Now there are And he did this thing about the gap,

1991
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:48,519
Speaker 3: about the rabbit and about the pin, and he was

1992
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:51,439
Speaker 3: just saying, what are these companies doing? Like what is this?

1993
01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:55,120
Speaker 3: I looked around, Really, no one said that. There was

1994
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:57,240
Speaker 3: a thing in Bloomberg being like, so, why is it

1995
01:25:57,360 --> 01:25:58,800
Speaker 3: so good that you're doing this? It was like a

1996
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:02,400
Speaker 3: month before it came out. It's just completely insane. And

1997
01:26:02,479 --> 01:26:07,360
Speaker 3: I understand that when you see the world, everyone's saying AI,

1998
01:26:07,640 --> 01:26:10,040
Speaker 3: everyone's saying this is gonna be big everyone's saying the

1999
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:14,840
Speaker 3: same thing. It's scary to step out. But also my

2000
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 3: Keith Olbman, have you no shame? But it really is like,

2001
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:20,880
Speaker 3: do you not want to just say what you see?

2002
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:23,960
Speaker 3: If you believe this, I actually am fine with it.

2003
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:27,040
Speaker 3: Please explain yourself because in the case of the rabbit,

2004
01:26:27,120 --> 01:26:29,000
Speaker 3: the case of the humane, I know the argument is,

2005
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:31,000
Speaker 3: are it's just for affluent people. Whatever, It's still a

2006
01:26:31,040 --> 01:26:34,200
Speaker 3: lot of money. It's still who knows whether someone didn't

2007
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:36,519
Speaker 3: actually save for the rabbit or save.

2008
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:37,400
Speaker 1: A lot of people.

2009
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:40,639
Speaker 3: Two hundred bucks isn't screw you if you think two

2010
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:43,520
Speaker 3: hundred bucks isn't a lot. If that is your response

2011
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:47,600
Speaker 3: to something as a justification for it being shit, that's unconscionable.

2012
01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:50,320
Speaker 6: I always said that wasn't an excuse, especially since it

2013
01:26:50,400 --> 01:26:52,559
Speaker 6: was being like compared directly to the to their humane

2014
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:54,400
Speaker 6: and I'm like, well, yeah, it's a cost less but.

2015
01:26:54,360 --> 01:26:54,920
Speaker 5: It still doesn't do it.

2016
01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, in fact, it did even much less. Yeah,

2017
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:01,960
Speaker 1: it's you can put an Android phone on it.

2018
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:02,160
Speaker 2: Now.

2019
01:27:02,439 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 5: I wanted to do that for my video. It didn't

2020
01:27:05,040 --> 01:27:05,639
Speaker 5: come out in time.

2021
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:07,880
Speaker 3: It's just frustrating that guy who was like, oh, he

2022
01:27:08,040 --> 01:27:10,960
Speaker 3: killed the product no, they killed the products out. Mancus

2023
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:13,320
Speaker 3: just said what was in front of him, right. Yeah.

2024
01:27:13,439 --> 01:27:16,559
Speaker 7: I had a friend, Sharie Smith, who would review laptops

2025
01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:18,560
Speaker 7: and sometimes she'd give him a bad score, and the

2026
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:20,240
Speaker 7: companies would call and be like, well, why why did

2027
01:27:20,280 --> 01:27:20,680
Speaker 7: you give us.

2028
01:27:20,640 --> 01:27:23,320
Speaker 1: A bad store? And you made a bad product. Make

2029
01:27:23,400 --> 01:27:25,160
Speaker 1: a good product and I'll give you a good score.

2030
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:26,559
Speaker 1: It's that easy.

2031
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:29,840
Speaker 6: Just talking about this off air, it's just like, no, look,

2032
01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:32,920
Speaker 6: I will tell you why, and I'll take you through

2033
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 6: the process and oh, I've just narrated my whole video

2034
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:35,519
Speaker 6: for you again.

2035
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:38,479
Speaker 3: Just going and if I like it, I'm gonna lose

2036
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:41,040
Speaker 3: my shit over this. I'll be emphatic about how much

2037
01:27:41,080 --> 01:27:43,120
Speaker 3: I like it. When I like something, I love it.

2038
01:27:43,520 --> 01:27:45,800
Speaker 3: I get into the guts values, How was I really

2039
01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:48,760
Speaker 3: enjoy it? And I want to do that again with tech,

2040
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:50,240
Speaker 3: like I actually really miss it and.

2041
01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:52,000
Speaker 6: I think people What people don't get is that that's

2042
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:55,320
Speaker 6: actually that makes it easier. Like when I run a review,

2043
01:27:55,400 --> 01:27:57,920
Speaker 6: that's that's good. Yeah, it's great because I get to

2044
01:27:57,960 --> 01:28:00,320
Speaker 6: geek out the product. The product people are happy, which

2045
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:01,840
Speaker 6: like I doesn't what I do.

2046
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:04,120
Speaker 5: But they're not yelling at me. And the commenters aren't

2047
01:28:04,120 --> 01:28:05,920
Speaker 5: aren't yelling at me either. You get the occasion like

2048
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:10,360
Speaker 5: how much they padio for this bab and like everyone

2049
01:28:10,400 --> 01:28:12,320
Speaker 5: else is just like, oh yeah, I was geeking out

2050
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:14,519
Speaker 5: about this too. I'm glad it's not a dumpster fire.

2051
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:14,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2052
01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:17,920
Speaker 5: Great, cool, it's it's much more of a hassle to

2053
01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 5: do a bad review.

2054
01:28:19,040 --> 01:28:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, a bad review.

2055
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:22,880
Speaker 7: I mean the Vergie this year we did three that

2056
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:26,479
Speaker 7: were like lower than average, and people were like, what

2057
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:28,360
Speaker 7: because we give the rabbit a really low score. I

2058
01:28:28,360 --> 01:28:30,680
Speaker 7: believe we give it like a three or four. No,

2059
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:32,240
Speaker 7: we give it a three because the Humane Pin got

2060
01:28:32,280 --> 01:28:35,600
Speaker 7: a four because it did slightly more. And then the

2061
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:38,080
Speaker 7: vision Pro got a seven, and we all joke now

2062
01:28:38,120 --> 01:28:39,680
Speaker 7: and say it probably should have been a six. But

2063
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:42,320
Speaker 7: but even then it was pretty like like the vision

2064
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:44,360
Speaker 7: Pro actually still did the thing right, it.

2065
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:48,680
Speaker 5: Was, Yeah, but seven should be out lowed. I'm just

2066
01:28:48,840 --> 01:28:50,320
Speaker 5: gonna say seven should be retired.

2067
01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:55,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, but you know, it's very uncommon in our space,

2068
01:28:55,960 --> 01:28:57,200
Speaker 7: and a lot of times if you are using the

2069
01:28:57,200 --> 01:28:59,040
Speaker 7: garbage products, you don't want to talk about them, and

2070
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:01,160
Speaker 7: then you're using the mediocre products and you're like, how

2071
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:02,280
Speaker 7: do I make that sound interesting?

2072
01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 5: Oh my god, yes, now we're just talking.

2073
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:07,160
Speaker 1: We're just over here talking about no no, no, we

2074
01:29:07,280 --> 01:29:07,840
Speaker 1: have a great time.

2075
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:10,760
Speaker 3: Sorry, no, no, no, no, I'm hat that's why you're here.

2076
01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:15,680
Speaker 3: And so it's funny. I've been asked recently to do

2077
01:29:15,800 --> 01:29:18,280
Speaker 3: more review stuff. But that's the thing. It's like, what

2078
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:21,120
Speaker 3: if I hate it, man, just say you hate it,

2079
01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:24,760
Speaker 3: It'll be the most and I can do no. But

2080
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 3: I can absolutely rip something a pop. Also, do I

2081
01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:32,040
Speaker 3: want to like if it's like something I truly despise, fine,

2082
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:36,639
Speaker 3: absolutely the injustice inside me. But it's like something that's

2083
01:29:36,720 --> 01:29:39,320
Speaker 3: just kind of shit, like a six out of ten

2084
01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:40,679
Speaker 3: review that sounds horrid.

2085
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:41,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely.

2086
01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:45,200
Speaker 7: When I first I went from from one place that

2087
01:29:45,240 --> 01:29:48,519
Speaker 7: had a very kind of strict tone, and then I

2088
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:50,519
Speaker 7: went to a place with a much looser tone, which

2089
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:54,280
Speaker 7: was Gizmodo at that point owned by Gawker. And I

2090
01:29:54,360 --> 01:29:56,320
Speaker 7: started there and I was ready to go, and I

2091
01:29:56,400 --> 01:29:59,479
Speaker 7: got a product in and I think, I mean, I

2092
01:29:59,600 --> 01:30:01,880
Speaker 7: gave it really bad review, and it was mainly because

2093
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:03,160
Speaker 7: I was just I was like, it was not very

2094
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:06,000
Speaker 7: good and I was like, I'm gonna dig in. And

2095
01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:08,360
Speaker 7: it was the meanest thing I've ever written in my life.

2096
01:30:08,720 --> 01:30:10,280
Speaker 7: I even think about it now and I cringe a

2097
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:11,600
Speaker 7: little bit because it was so mean, but it was

2098
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:14,200
Speaker 7: also so fun to write. And you you get older

2099
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:16,120
Speaker 7: and you learn and you temper things, and so you're like, well,

2100
01:30:16,160 --> 01:30:17,760
Speaker 7: maybe I don't need to compare it to like a

2101
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:21,360
Speaker 7: baby dropped on its head and a target, Like, maybe

2102
01:30:21,479 --> 01:30:22,400
Speaker 7: that is not appropriate.

2103
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:25,639
Speaker 3: So we're approaching the end now. Yeah, So for both

2104
01:30:25,680 --> 01:30:28,760
Speaker 3: of you, what is actually something you really really really

2105
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:30,880
Speaker 3: love in tech? There you go everyone on Reddit you

2106
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:34,320
Speaker 3: want something positive? Jeez, you got first. You mean it,

2107
01:30:34,439 --> 01:30:36,720
Speaker 3: like like like a gadget you just really really love.

2108
01:30:36,840 --> 01:30:39,160
Speaker 5: I have a question, like a currently available one or one.

2109
01:30:39,080 --> 01:30:42,760
Speaker 3: One that us the history of yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

2110
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:43,880
Speaker 3: even from history.

2111
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:46,800
Speaker 6: I don't mind, I will get I'll blend the two.

2112
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:48,640
Speaker 6: I'll give you where where I think a company really

2113
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:51,560
Speaker 6: got something right and it didn't do very well. Motorola,

2114
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:54,640
Speaker 6: as you know, revived the Razor for twenty nineteen. It

2115
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:56,560
Speaker 6: brought back the Razor as a foldable Android phone and

2116
01:30:56,600 --> 01:30:58,800
Speaker 6: it was it was pretty cool, but I had some

2117
01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:01,519
Speaker 6: stuff wrong with it on the greatest. Then the next

2118
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:03,560
Speaker 6: year they brought out the Razor of twenty twenty and

2119
01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:08,040
Speaker 6: I tell you for somebody who is terminally nostalgic, this

2120
01:31:08,280 --> 01:31:11,679
Speaker 6: thing maintained the industrial design of one of the most

2121
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:16,920
Speaker 6: famous phones of all time and concealed within it a

2122
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:20,280
Speaker 6: really quite good Android phone with a bad camera because

2123
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:22,720
Speaker 6: it's made by Motorola, but you know it's and it

2124
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:24,080
Speaker 6: was very fragile in whatever.

2125
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:24,759
Speaker 5: But it was beautiful.

2126
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:27,400
Speaker 6: I still I very few gadgets that I don't just

2127
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:29,599
Speaker 6: throw in a drawer or return or whatever. This one

2128
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 6: I didn't have the heart. It sits there on my

2129
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:33,000
Speaker 6: shelf in the back. It's out of focus in most

2130
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 6: of my videos. And it's a masterpiece.

2131
01:31:35,320 --> 01:31:35,519
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2132
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:38,880
Speaker 6: And I love it when a company just absolutely nails it,

2133
01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:40,800
Speaker 6: and I hate it when it either doesn't have the

2134
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:44,759
Speaker 6: ability to market it enough or it just doesn't capture

2135
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:45,559
Speaker 6: the public's imagination.

2136
01:31:45,600 --> 01:31:47,200
Speaker 5: And I don't think it did very well, but I

2137
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:47,600
Speaker 5: loved it.

2138
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:48,400
Speaker 3: Cool.

2139
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:51,000
Speaker 5: The Razor year is the coolest, one of the coolest

2140
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:51,599
Speaker 5: things I've every year.

2141
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:54,840
Speaker 1: That was a cool fucking phone. Yeah, I think me

2142
01:31:55,200 --> 01:31:55,559
Speaker 1: right now.

2143
01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:59,080
Speaker 7: It's arc the Browser. Oh wow, I recently switched to it.

2144
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:01,160
Speaker 7: I won't shut up about it anywhere I go. So

2145
01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:03,479
Speaker 7: you guys have to listen to it too. You're talking

2146
01:32:03,479 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 7: about all your tabs earlier. I'm also a tab monster,

2147
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:10,679
Speaker 7: and it just works it better, like collates the stuff

2148
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:13,840
Speaker 7: for me, so like it does the job. I waited

2149
01:32:13,920 --> 01:32:16,120
Speaker 7: like two years to use it, and now it's got

2150
01:32:16,160 --> 01:32:17,800
Speaker 7: a bunch of AI features that I think are kind

2151
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:20,320
Speaker 7: of stupid. But you ignore the AI features and you

2152
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:22,360
Speaker 7: just focus on the core product and it rules.

2153
01:32:23,080 --> 01:32:23,760
Speaker 1: And it just came out.

2154
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:26,120
Speaker 7: The iPad version came out the week we're recording this.

2155
01:32:26,240 --> 01:32:28,000
Speaker 5: I've heard that a lot. I've heard a lot of people.

2156
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:30,080
Speaker 7: It's one of those things where you do have to

2157
01:32:30,120 --> 01:32:32,840
Speaker 7: take a minute. It's not something immediately like I get it.

2158
01:32:33,439 --> 01:32:34,760
Speaker 7: You have to kind of sit with it a second

2159
01:32:34,760 --> 01:32:35,880
Speaker 7: because the first time I looked at it was like

2160
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:37,520
Speaker 7: this is stupid and immediately.

2161
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:40,439
Speaker 3: All right, welcome people find you, Michael.

2162
01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:43,200
Speaker 6: If people can find me at Captain two phones, mostly

2163
01:32:43,240 --> 01:32:45,599
Speaker 6: on threads, it's Captain the Number two Phones. I'm also

2164
01:32:46,160 --> 01:32:49,040
Speaker 6: still on X you know, I have no choice and

2165
01:32:49,240 --> 01:32:52,800
Speaker 6: Instagram and I make YouTube videos at the Mister Mobile.

2166
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:56,519
Speaker 7: And you can find me at alex h Pran's I

2167
01:32:56,600 --> 01:32:59,680
Speaker 7: think on threads and Twitter exists, but I don't check

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01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:04,160
Speaker 7: it very often. It's also Alex Hcrans and then I'm

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01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:06,519
Speaker 7: at the Verge. I write and edit at the Verge.

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01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:10,880
Speaker 7: I'm on the Verge cast every Friday and sometimes on Tuesdays.

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Speaker 3: All Right, my name's Ed Zichron. You can find me

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01:33:14,240 --> 01:33:17,920
Speaker 3: at w W anyway. Sorry, you've been listening to Better Offline.

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01:33:17,960 --> 01:33:21,280
Speaker 3: We've been recording this in the beautiful iHeartRadio studios here

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01:33:21,400 --> 01:33:24,120
Speaker 3: in beautiful New York City, Daniel and my producer, Thank

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01:33:24,160 --> 01:33:26,960
Speaker 3: you so much, Daniel. I'm calling this thing Better off Live.

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01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:29,720
Speaker 3: Now We're going to do this in multiple cities. I'm

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01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:31,799
Speaker 3: proud and happy that we did this. Thank you, Michael,

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01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:33,519
Speaker 3: Thank you Alex. This has been one for and thank

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Speaker 3: you all for listening. Thank you for listening to Better Offline.

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01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:46,800
Speaker 2: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song

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01:33:46,880 --> 01:33:49,519
Speaker 2: is Mattawsowski. You can check out more of his music

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01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:53,040
Speaker 2: and audio projects at Mattasowski dot com m A T

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01:33:53,200 --> 01:33:57,640
Speaker 2: T O S O W s KI dot com. You

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01:33:57,680 --> 01:33:59,920
Speaker 2: can email me at easy at Better offline dot com,

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01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:02,599
Speaker 2: or visit Better Offline dot com to find more podcast

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01:34:02,680 --> 01:34:06,000
Speaker 2: links and of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend

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01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:07,960
Speaker 2: you go to chat dot where's youread dot At to

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01:34:08,040 --> 01:34:10,839
Speaker 2: visit the discord and go to our slash Better Offline

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01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:14,080
Speaker 2: to check out I'll Reddit. Thank you so much for listening.

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Speaker 1: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media.

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01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:20,400
Speaker 7: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

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01:34:20,439 --> 01:34:23,800
Speaker 7: zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

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01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:26,240
Speaker 7: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.